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大多数人认为皮质醇是一种有害物质，应该尽量减少。
Most people think about cortisol as a bad thing that you want less of.
这种看法正确吗？
Is that the right way to think about it?
完全不是。
Not at all.
皮质醇被称为压力激素，它确实与压力有关。
Cortisol has been labeled a stress hormone, and it is involved in stress.
当你经历压力时，皮质醇水平会突然升高，这么说吧。
You have a bout of stress, you get a spike of cortisol, so to speak.
皮质醇和其他类固醇激素会与某些物质结合，而游离形式的皮质醇才是具有活性的部分。
Cortisol, other steroid hormones, is bound to things, and there's a free form of cortisol, that's the active one.
你不希望你的游离未结合皮质醇长期处于高水平，但我们需要认真思考它最初为何被称为压力激素。
You don't want your free unbound cortisol to be chronically high, but we need to really think about why it was called a stress hormone in the first place.
主要原因在于，皮质醇的作用是为大脑和身体调动能量来源，以便应对各种情况，进行思考和行动。
And the main reason is cortisol's job is to deploy energy sources for your brain and body to be able to react to things, think and move.
因此，皮质醇在压力下会自然升高，然后回落，前提是你不会过度沉溺于压力源之中。
So cortisol naturally goes up a bit during stress and it comes back again, provided you don't ruminate on that stress too much, on the stressor that is.
让我大开眼界的是，当我真正去查阅现代关于皮质醇的教科书时。
The big eye opener for me was when I actually went into the modern textbooks on cortisol.
不是大多数医学生使用的那些教材，而是内分泌学家、专家们真正学习的资料，以及昼夜节律和睡眠生物学家现在所理解的内容——那就是你每天早晨醒来的原因，即使你设置了闹钟，也是因为一种叫做‘皮质醇觉醒反应’的现象。
Not the ones that most medical students learn from, but what the endocrinologists, the specialists really learn from, and what the circadian and sleep biologists now understand, which is the reason you wake up every single morning, even if you have an alarm clock, is because of something called the cortisol awakening response.
如果我们从一个典型的健康24小时周期来回顾，情况大致如下。
So if we just step back from a typical healthy twenty four hours, it looks something like this.
在入睡前几个小时，你的皮质醇水平较低，心率也低，你感到平静，房间光线昏暗，然后你入睡了。
A couple hours before sleep, your cortisol is low, your heart rate's low, you're calm, hopefully it's dim in the room, you go to sleep.
此时，你的皮质醇水平达到全天的最低点。
Your cortisol is then at its absolute lowest levels for the entire twenty four hours.
顺便说一句，这也是褪黑素——这种助眠激素——水平最高的时候。
And by the way, this is the same time when melatonin, the sleepy hormone is at its highest levels.
在大约四到五小时的睡眠后，通常在前四到五小时的睡眠中，你会进入最深的睡眠、慢波睡眠、非快速眼动睡眠。
After about four or five hours of sleep, and typically in that first four or five hours of sleep is when you get your most deep sleep, slow wave sleep, non REM sleep.
许多人会在夜间睡眠的最后三分之一阶段经历一个过渡期，并倾向于在这个时候醒来。
Many people experience a transition into the sort of last third of their sleep for the night, and they tend to wake up around that time.
他们常常去上厕所，然后再次入睡。
And often they use the restroom and go back to sleep.
他们为什么会醒来？
Why did they wake up?
事实证明，你的皮质醇在夜间大约三分之二的时间开始上升。
Well, it turns out that your cortisol is starting to rise about two thirds of the way through the night.
我的意思是，皮质醇在整个夜间其实一直在缓慢上升，只是从最低点开始逐渐攀升。
I mean, it's really creeping up throughout the entire night, but it's gone from this nadir to it's starting to climb.
然后，在某个时刻，假设你重新入睡了，或者你整晚都睡得很安稳。
And then at some point, let's assume you get back to sleep or you slept through the night.
在某个时间点，可能是早上6点，也可能是8点，这取决于你是谁以及你的作息安排，你会醒来。
At some point, maybe 6AM, maybe 8AM, depends on who you are and what your schedule is, you wake up.
也许你的闹钟响了，你就醒了。
Maybe your alarm clock goes off, you wake up.
你醒来是因为皮质醇水平达到了某个阈值。
You wake up because the cortisol level reached a certain threshold.
这实际上是皮质醇觉醒反应。
It is literally the cortisol awakening response.
这是健康的，也是好的。
It is healthy, it is good.
如果我在那一刻测量你的皮质醇水平，并与人们所说的下午压力事件相比，你会发现它远高于压力所引起的水平。
And if I were to measure your cortisol at that moment and compare it to what people might call like a stress episode in the afternoon, you would say it's much higher than what stress induced.
好的。
Okay.
然后你的皮质醇会继续上升。
So then your cortisol continues to rise.
在醒来后的第一个小时，可能长达九十分钟，但尤其在醒后第一小时内，接触明亮光线可以将你的晨间皮质醇激增（我如此称呼）提高多达50%。
And there's this unique opportunity in the first hour, maybe ninety minutes, but in the first hour after waking, where viewing bright light can increase your morning cortisol spike, as I'll refer to it, by up to 50%.
明亮的光线最好来自阳光，或者来自10,000勒克斯的人工光源，甚至来自非常明亮的室内LED或白炽灯。
Bright light can come from sunlight ideally, or from a bright artificial light like a 10,000 lux artificial light, or even a very bright indoor artificial LED or incandescent light.
好的。
Okay.
这为什么重要？
Why is this important?
我们可以探讨皮质醇的所有生物学机制，但可以总结为：你有一个下丘脑-垂体-肾上腺轴，它启动皮质醇分泌，自我调节，形成负反馈回路等等。
Well, we could explore all the biology of cortisol and we can summarize it by saying you have this hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis that sets off cortisol, self regulates, negative feedback loop, etcetera, etcetera.
这是皮质醇的正常调节方式，基本上可以总结为：它永远不会让你的皮质醇水平长时间过高。
That's the normal regulation of cortisol, which basically can be summarized as it never allows you to have your cortisol too high for too long.
它会自我反馈并关闭分泌。
It feeds back on itself and shuts it down.
然而，在醒来后的第一个小时内，你的大脑生物钟有一个独特的特权通路，独立于HPA轴，能够在这一小时内增强皮质醇分泌。
However, in the first hour after waking, your brain circadian clock has a unique privileged pathway that is separate from the HPA axis, where it can amplify cortisol only in that first hour.
所以你会问：为什么会这样？
So you say, why would that be?
这是大自然通过进化硬编码的机制，旨在为你提供机会提升皮质醇水平，从而让你拥有足够的能量去应对一天的活动。
This is nature's evolutionarily hardwired mechanism for giving you the opportunity to boost your cortisol so that you have energy to lean into the activities of your day.
当我说能量时，我不是说我们现在正好在加州，那种意义上的能量，我指的是葡萄糖的动员。
And when I say energy, I'm not saying, it's not like we happen to be in California at the moment, but not energy energy, I'm talking about glucose mobilization.
如果你采用低碳水化合物饮食，你会动员其他能量来源。
If you're on a low carbohydrate diet, you're going to mobilize other energy sources.
你的大脑和身体因为皮质醇而醒来。
Your brain and body wakes up because of cortisol.
你可以通过接触强光进一步增强这种清醒状态。
You have the opportunity to boost that wakefulness even further by viewing bright light.
是的，你可以锻炼。
Yes, you could exercise.
是的，你可以喝咖啡。
Yes, you could drink caffeine.
事实证明，如果你像我一样、像你一样是长期摄入咖啡因的人，咖啡因并不会显著提高皮质醇水平。
Turns out caffeine, if you're a chronic caffeine user, such as me, such as you, doesn't actually increase cortisol that much.
你可以跳进40华氏度的冰水浴，但这并不会真正提高你的皮质醇水平。
You could jump in a 40 degree Fahrenheit cold plunge, doesn't actually increase your cortisol.
网上流传着一大堆无稽之谈，说女性不应该进行冷水浴，如果不那么冷，也许可以，但总是归因于皮质醇的升高。
All this nonsense going around the internet about women shouldn't do a cold plunge, if they do not as cold, okay, maybe, but it's always attributed to increases in cortisol.
冷水浴会降低你的皮质醇水平。
Cold plunge reduces your cortisol levels.
你可以查看相关数据。
You can look at the data.
数据显示，皮质醇水平会下降。
The data show that it goes down.
肾上腺素上升，多巴胺上升，去甲肾上腺素也上升。
Adrenaline goes up, dopamine goes up, norepinephrine go up.
皮质醇让你保持警觉，让你专注。
So cortisol makes you alert, it makes you focused.
关键在于，在醒来后的第一个小时内提升皮质醇非常重要，因为大约在你清醒三小时后，负反馈机制就会启动。
And here's the key thing, spiking your cortisol in that first hour after waking is so, so important because that negative feedback loop mechanism kicks in about three hours after you've been awake.
这就是为什么你的皮质醇会在上午晚些时候、下午早些时候，以及下午晚些时候开始下降。
And that's why your cortisol then starts to drop late morning, early afternoon, later afternoon.
到了下午，如果你经历了一次压力事件，这没什么问题。
And in the afternoon, if you have a bout of stress, no problem.
你的皮质醇和肾上腺素会轻微升高，然后又回落。
You just have a little bit of cortisol bump, adrenaline bump, and it goes back down.
如果你早晨没有让皮质醇激增，你的皮质醇系统——本质上是下丘脑-垂体-肾上腺轴——就会为压力事件做好准备，导致后期皮质醇水平持续大幅升高，这会让你难以入睡、难以保持睡眠，这也是人们下午出现焦虑等各种问题的部分原因。
If you don't spike your morning cortisol, what ends up happening is your cortisol system, essentially the HPA axis, is primed for stress events to give you big lasting increases in cortisol later, which make it hard to fall asleep, which make it hard to stay asleep, which are part of the reason why people have afternoon anxiety, all sorts of things.
所以，你早晨确实应该感到一点压力。
So you're actually supposed to feel a little stressed first thing in the morning.
这是正常的，也是健康的，它能让你下午更平静。
This is normal, this is healthy, and it sets you up for being more calm in the afternoon.
但这些与你是在早上8点、6点、4点还是11点醒来无关。
Now, none of this is tied to whether or not you wake up at 8AM, 6AM, 4AM, or 11AM.
这跟昼夜节律类型无关。
This is not about chronotype.
这仅仅关乎醒来后的第一个小时。
This is simply about the first hour after waking.
但醒来后大约九十分钟后，提升皮质醇的机会就消失了。
But after about ninety minutes post waking, that opportunity to spike your cortisol goes away.
所以如果你无法接触阳光这种自然光，就改用人工光源。
So if you can't view bright light in the form of sunlight, get it from artificial light.
你最好再配合补水，事实上，尽管原因尚未完全明确，但可能与电解质平衡等因素有关，早上第一件事喝水也能促使皮质醇激增。
You would do well to compound that with hydration, which by the way, for reasons that still aren't entirely understood, probably has to do with some electrolyte balance, etcetera, first thing in the day, will also burst your cortisol.
如果你无法立即锻炼，哪怕只是跳绳、开合跳这类活动，也能让身体在清晨进入高皮质醇状态，从而为下午和晚上保持低皮质醇水平打下基础。
If you can't get in exercise right away, even just some skipping rope, jumping jacks, this kind of thing, Getting the body into a high cortisol state early sets you up for being in a low cortisol state in the afternoon and evening.
任何由压力事件引发的皮质醇升高都会迅速消退，除非你因早晨未激增皮质醇而导致皮质醇曲线变得平坦。
And any cortisol that you might trigger through a stress event will quickly subside, unless you what's called flatten your cortisol curve by not spiking in the morning.
顺便说一下，我所描述的曲线是：早晨较高，下午逐渐降低，进入睡眠初期时维持在极低水平。
And by the way, the curve that I'm describing high in the morning, lower into the afternoon, low, low, low as you get into the first hours of sleep.
这种健康的皮质醇曲线适用于男性、女性、儿童和孕妇。
This is the healthy cortisol curve for men, women, kids, pregnant women.
绝经后女性的皮质醇曲线往往会趋于平缓，这时你需要采取额外措施，更早地实现皮质醇激增。
Post menopausal women, it tends to flatten out a bit, and then you do additional things to get that spike earlier.
所以当我听到这些说法，说不要冷水浴，因为它并不会增加皮质醇时。
So this is when I hear all this stuff about don't cold plunge, it increases it doesn't increase cortisol.
还有那种认为我们应该完全避免压力的观点，这是不对的。
And also this notion that we're supposed to avoid stress entirely, not true.
你和我都通常同意这一点，但你何时施加压力很重要。
You and I both generally agree on that, but how you time your stress is important.
我要说的最后一点是，如果你在下午晚些时候或晚上进行非常剧烈的锻炼，研究表明这会使你的基础皮质醇水平在几小时内增加两到三倍。
And the last point I'll make is that if you were to do, say, a very intense workout in the late afternoon evening, it's been demonstrated that will triple or quadruple your baseline cortisol levels for a few hours.
这没什么问题，你可以在之后洗个热水澡，做些缓慢的呼吸来放松，前提是你之前没有摄入大量咖啡因，你很可能照样能睡得很好。
Not a problem, you can take a hot shower afterwards, do some slow breathing and calm down, provided you didn't fill up with caffeine prior, you could probably fall asleep just fine.
但因为你把皮质醇的峰值推迟到了傍晚，你会发现第二天的皮质醇水平会更低，这也是你第二天早上感觉更迟钝的原因之一（虽然不是唯一原因）。
But because you spiked your cortisol late day, what you find is that the next day cortisol is lower, which is one of the, not the only reason, but one of the reasons why you're a bit more sluggish the next morning.
而且
And
这就是为什么如果人们在一天太晚的时候锻炼，他们的生物节律就会开始发生偏移。
this is why people, if they exercise too late in the day, their rhythm starts to shift.
当我们谈论光照对昼夜节律的影响时，实际上是皮质醇的峰值在发生偏移或变平，进而调整了褪黑素的峰值和低谷。
When we talk about your circadian rhythm shifting in response to light, it's the cortisol peak that's shifting or flattening, which in turn adjusts your melatonin peak and trough.
但皮质醇才是触发因素。
But cortisol is the trigger.
皮质醇，可以这样理解：把早晨的皮质醇激增看作是建立你所关注的所有节律的第一张多米诺骨牌——如果你希望拥有白天的良好情绪、专注力和警觉性，以及夜晚的优质睡眠。
Cortisol, think of it like the think about this morning cortisol spike as the first domino in establishing essentially all the rhythms that you're interested in if you want daytime mood focus alertness, nighttime sleep.
这些观点我多年来一直在谈论，我们也讨论了多年，但直到最近，我们才真正清楚为什么皮质醇是这一系列链条中的第一张多米诺骨牌。
So these are things I've talked about for years and that we've talked about for years, but only recently has it become clear exactly why cortisol is that first domino in the chain.
我们经常听到多巴胺、肾上腺素、去甲肾上腺素，这些物质都很重要，但它们都位于皮质醇的下游。
And we hear so often about dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, all of which are important, all downstream of cortisol.
因此，长期高水平的皮质醇，比如库欣综合征，会导致月圆脸、记忆力减退等问题，这些情况都是因为皮质醇曲线长期过于平坦，即下午和晚上水平过高造成的。
So chronically high cortisol, Cushing's disease, the things that give people moon face that cause memory deficits, all these sorts of things, that's when the cortisol curve is too flat for too long, meaning too high in the afternoon and evening.
但我说，早晨皮质醇水平并没有绝对的上限。
But there is, I won't say there's no upper limit to how high cortisol can be in the morning.
有些人早晨最初几个小时的皮质醇水平异常偏高。
There are people who have pathologically high levels of cortisol in the first hours of the day.
大多数人，包括库欣综合征患者，早晨皮质醇水平异常偏低，而傍晚则异常偏高。
Most people, even people with Cushing's, have pathologically low cortisol early in the day, pathologically high cortisol late in the day.
他们把这颠倒了。
They've inverted that.
没错。
That's right.
让这条曲线恢复正常至关重要。
And getting this curve right is so critical.
它能预测长寿，也能预测从化疗到止痛等各种情况的恢复能力。
It predicts longevity, it predicts recovery from everything from chemotherapy to pain relief.
你似乎在做所有正确的事情，同时还采用了这些极其激进的健康方案。
It's one of the things that I'm You seem to be doing all the right things, plus these sort of outrageously ambitious health protocols as well.
不过，如果你打算清理任何东西，包括血液，我建议你去奥地利或瑞士，因为这些国家非常干净。
Although I will commend you, if you're gonna clean anything including your blood, I do suggest doing it in Austria or Switzerland because those are very clean countries.
那真是个绝佳的去处。
Wonderful place to go in there.
这些国家确实非常干净。
Well, they're very clean countries.
是的。
Yeah.
那么皮质醇与倦怠之间有什么关系呢？
What about the relationship between cortisol and burnout?
你知道，你之前提到过长期持续升高的皮质醇。
You know, you talked about sustained chronically elevated cortisol.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但我还听过你把倦怠描述为皮质醇在时间上长期错位。
But I've also heard you talk about burnout as basically being wrongly timed cortisol over time.
没错。
That's right.
被拉长了。
Stretched out.
你对应对倦怠有什么认识？
What what have you come to learn about handling burnout?
有人有这种感觉，或者我觉得我自己也快到了
Somebody feels that sense, or I feel like I'm sort of close
那种状态。
to that.
这是怎么回事？他们该如何干预呢？
What's going on, and and how can they try to intervene in that?
倦怠似乎有两种普遍类型。
So there seem to be two general forms of burnout.
一种是早上就精疲力尽，根本无法进入状态。
One is the, I'm exhausted in the morning and I just can't get into gear.
然后就是不停地喝咖啡，咖啡，咖啡，还是疲惫不堪。
Then it's like caffeine, caffeine, caffeine, exhausted.
到了傍晚，终于，我赶上了这波节奏。
Then late day, okay, finally, I caught the wave front.
然后我睡不好觉，整个情况就重复发生。
Then I'm having trouble sleeping and then the whole thing repeats.
精神亢奋，但身体疲惫。
Wired, but tired.
精神亢奋，但身体疲惫。
Wired, but tired.
另一种倦怠是，人们的皮质醇水平就像方波函数。
The other form of burnout is where people just, it's like their cortisol is like a square wave function.
早上就处于高位，一整天都保持这样。
It's just up in the morning and all day long.
这大概就是我研究生时期的状态，可能本科、研究生和博士后阶段都是如此。
It's sort of how I would describe my graduate school years, probably undergraduate, graduate school years, postdoc.
我觉得我在博士后期间撞上了墙，那时大概是三十或三十五岁。
I think I hit a wall during my postdoc years, would be 30 or 35.
然后某一天你意识到，这种状态再也撑不下去了。
And then at some point you realize you just can't keep this going.
我认为大多数创业者都会有这种感觉。
And I think most entrepreneurs feel that way.
在某个时刻，你就会觉得：我真的做不下去了。
At some point you're just like, I can't do this.
我的意思是，像大卫·戈金斯和卡姆·海恩斯这样的人，他们也是会睡觉的，对吧？
I mean, the David Goggins and Cam Haynes, they do sleep, right?
他们最终还是会睡觉的。
They get sleep eventually.
所以，我认为思考倦怠和疲惫的主要方式是问自己：如果我拥有完全的控制权，我自然会在什么时候醒来？
So I think the main way to think about burnout and exhaustion is to ask oneself, okay, if I had total control, when would I naturally wake up?
我自然会在什么时候入睡？
When would I naturally go to sleep?
也就是说，我理想的起床和睡觉时间应该是怎样的？
Like what would be my preferred times to do that?
然后，无论你的起床时间是什么，都要把一天中的头三到六个小时当作黄金时间来对待。
And then whatever your wake up time is, to really treat that first three to six hours of your day as go time.
并且做一些事情，比如接触强光、补水、锻炼、摄入咖啡因等，这些都能帮助你开启一天。
And to do the things, bright light, hydration, exercise, caffeine, etcetera, that really push you into the day.
但在一天最后的理想四小时（大多数人做不到，但至少最后两小时）里，完全做与早晨相反的事情。
But then really essentially doing all the opposite things that you do in the morning in the last ideally four, but most people won't do that last two hours of your day.
调暗灯光。
Dim the lights.
别再喝咖啡因了。
Caffeine, forget it.
咖啡因应该在睡前八小时就停止摄入了。
It should have halted that probably eight hours before sleep.
限制补水。
Limit your hydration.
对吧？
Right?
除非你脱水了，否则要限制补水。
Unless you're dehydrated, limit your hydration.
深长呼气，任何能降低皮质醇水平、提升褪黑素水平的方法，这就是为什么我们如此强调在一天后期要调暗灯光。
Know, long exhale breathing, anything that can bring your cortisol levels down and bring your melatonin levels up, which is why we were so bullish about dimming the lights later in the day.
我们之前讨论过使用红色镜片眼镜来阻挡短波长光线，顺便说一句，很多人说，研究显示屏幕光会干扰睡眠，但不同人之间的差异很大。
And we were talking about the red lens glasses to block out short wavelength light, which by the way, a lot of people have said, well, the study is showing that screen light disrupts sleep, very variable between people.
人们的视网膜敏感度不同，因此屏幕光对他们的睡眠干扰程度也各不相同。
People have different levels of retinal sensitivity, so how much screen light will disrupt their sleep.
但这不仅仅关乎睡眠。
But it's not just about sleep.
《美国国家科学院院刊》上发表了一项精彩的研究，显示睡在100勒克斯顶灯照明房间中的人（这已经非常昏暗了），其早晨的血糖水平异常升高。
There's a beautiful study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that showed that people who sleep in a room with an overhead light of a 100 lux, which is extremely dim, show abnormally elevated morning glucose levels.
这完全说得通。
Makes perfect sense.
皮质醇会动员葡萄糖，而这种作用甚至能透过闭合的眼睑发生。
Cortisol mobilizes glucose, and this is through closed eyelids.
所以，你必须把光线降低到大约1到3勒克斯。
Okay, so you have to get the light down to maybe one to three lux.
你说一到三勒克斯，那基本上就是漆黑、漆黑、漆黑。
And you say, one to three lux, it's basically dark, dark, dark.
一支蜡烛的光非常微弱。
A candle light is very low.
明亮的满月，当你觉得外面好亮啊，实际上也只有大约一到五勒克斯。
A bright full moon where you say, Oh, it's so bright out, is actually only about one to five lux.
所以我们觉得这些光源很亮，但大自然让我们适应了明亮的早晨和昏暗的夜晚。
So we think of these sources as very bright, but nature set us up to have bright mornings and dim dark nights.
有些人会说，我住的地方根本没有光。
And some people will say, well, there's no light where I live.
你知道，听好了，你不需要把太阳当作一个明确的物体来看见。
You know, like, listen, you don't need to see the sun as a as a delineated object.
如果你比较一下，比如说即使在英国隆冬时节早上九点，走在没有任何人工照明的户外、没有路灯的地方。
If you compare how bright it is, let's just say even in the dead of winter in The UK at 9AM, walking in a place with no artificial lighting outside, no street lamps.
与前一晚同一地点的午夜相比，你会发现在前者中，你可以在没有任何人工照明、也就是你们说的‘手电筒’的情况下自如行走。
Versus midnight the night before in the same location, you'd say you can navigate in the one case without any artificial lighting, without what we call flashlight, you call a torch.
但无论如何，关键是白天早期有大量的光子进入，你希望在一天开始时就获得这些光线。
But in any case, the idea is that there are a lot of photons coming through and you want all of that early in the day.
而在一天的最后阶段，你则需要做相反的事情。
And you just want to do the inverse in the last part of the day.
所以我认为，为了避免让人感到不知所措，因为人们已经要处理和思考太多事情了，只要确保你一天的头一个小时和最后一个小时做对就行。
So I think to avoid overwhelming people, because people have so much to do and think about, get the first hour of your day right, get the last hour of your day right.
这样你就能显著改善早晨的皮质醇峰值和傍晚的皮质醇下降，而这正是你想要的效果。
And you'll greatly improve this morning cortisol peak, late day cortisol reduction, which is what you want.
同时，你也会自然地清除体内残留的褪黑素，因为强光会通过另一条通路抑制褪黑素，而这条通路同样起始于眼睛，经过视交叉上核和几个其他中继站，最终关闭松果体的褪黑素分泌。
And you'll get your natural clearing out of any melatonin that happens to be in your system because bright light quashes melatonin through a different pathway, but that also originates with the eyes, goes through the suprachiasmatic nucleus and a couple other relays to your pineal shuts down melatonin production.
到了傍晚，你就让环境变得越来越昏暗，越来越暗，越来越暗，从而提升褪黑素水平，降低皮质醇。
And then late in the day, you just make it dimmer, darker, darker, darker, and you bring up your melatonin, you bring down your cortisol.
但如果你想想屏幕带来的影响，它们是具有刺激性的。
But if you think about what's happened with screens, that it's stimulating.
我想昨晚我犯了个错误，看了一个长达六十分钟的访谈。
I think late last night I made the mistake of I watched this extended sixty minutes interview.
我其实是听着它睡着的。
I actually fell asleep to it.
是PetroTier那个吗？
Is it the PetroTier one?
不是，是特朗普的那个。
No, it's the Trump one.
哦，明白了。
Okay.
我很好奇，很久没听过他的采访了，这次访谈有点对抗性，但挺有意思的，我想看看会怎么样。
I was curious, I hadn't heard an interview with him for a long time and it was sort of combative, but it was an interesting one and I was curious to see how that would go.
我在最后大约十五分钟时睡着了，但我不建议这样做。
And I fell asleep in about the last fifteen minutes, but that I wouldn't recommend doing that.
通常情况下，最后一小时应该关掉屏幕。
Normally, it would be screens off in the last hour.
我只是对自己的准则有点松懈了。
I just I got a little loose with my protocols.
是的。
Yeah.
我们一直听你谈论夏令时、时间调整之类的事情。
We've been I've seen you talking about daylight savings, time changes, and stuff like that.
自从马修·沃克第一次上罗根的节目以来，已经快十年了。
This has been nearly a decade now since, Matthew Walker was first on Rogan.
我觉得差不多快十年了。
Think it was nearly almost ten years ago.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那时我还是个夜店推广人。
And I was still a club promoter at the time.
在那之前，我一直以为睡眠只是妨碍我工作的麻烦事。
And up until then, I just assumed that sleep was it's just like this thing that got in the way of me working.
纯粹就是扯淡。
It was just this bullshit.
而且说实话
There's and honestly
20岁？这有点道理。
20 is that's kind of true.
你真是由橡胶和魔法组成的，伙计。
You're made of rubber and magic, dude.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
咖啡因、远大梦想、胶带和电缆扎带。
Caffeine and big dreams and sellotape and cable ties.
你简直就是用这些东西勉强拼凑起来的。
You're just fucking, like, strung together with this stuff.
不管怎样，他来了，基本上相当于来了一次‘吓唬他们改过自新’的演讲。
Anyway, he came on and basically did the scare them straight equivalent.
你上学的时候有过那种经历吗？
Do ever have that in school?
吓唬他们让他们改过自新？
Scare them straight?
没有。
No.
所以他们请来一名狱警，向你们讲述监狱生活的可怕以及各种恐怖故事，
So they bring a prison officer in, and he tells you about how horrible life is in prison and all of the horror stories that
你们那时候多大？
What how old are you when you
大概十二三岁。
Like, 12, 13.
然后
And
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
他说，他们把沸水倒进杯子里，加很多糖，做成糖浆，然后泼在人身上。
And he's saying, you know, they put boiling water into, a cup and mix loads of sugar in it, it's syrup, and they throw it on people.
他们还用电池，把电池放进袜子里。
And then they have batteries, and they put them in socks.
我记得他把装满电池的袜子往桌上一砸，吓了我一跳。
And I remember he hit this sock filled with batteries down on the table, and it made me jump.
我当时就想：操。
And I was like, fuck.
我真的不想去那里——这招确实对我有效。
Like, I really don't wanna go to it honestly worked.
就我而言，以我特定的心理状态，我可能本来就不太可能进监狱。
For me, my particular psychological makeup, that thing apps I don't I don't think I was the sort of person that was probably gonna go to jail anyway.
但没错，我明白了睡眠真的、真的很重要。
But, yeah, I learn sleep is, okay, really, really important.
你刚才一直在谈夏令时。
You've been talking about daylight savings.
我越了解它，就越发现睡眠剥夺的影响真是令人恐惧。
The more that I learn about it, the effects of sleep deprivation are just terrifying.
一切都乱套了。
It's just everything gets broken.
是啊。
Yeah.
这简直就是彻底的重置。
I mean, is the ultimate reset.
我们可以聊聊一些最新的研究数据，它们正好解释了原因。
We could talk about some of the newer data that point to exactly why.
我要说的是，为了让大家安心，如果你连续几天没有让皮质醇水平飙升，只是连续几天睡不好，你也没事。
I will say just for people's peace of mind, if you don't spike your cortisol for a couple days in a row, you get one poor night's sleep for a couple days in a row, you're going to be fine.
人类的身体和大脑是在极端条件下进化而来的。
The human body and brain evolved under conditions that were extreme.
新父母会告诉你睡眠有多困难。
New parents will tell you how difficult sleep can be.
我的意思是，你还是能撑过去的。
I mean, you can pull it off.
我们所说的慢性压力，实际上是皮质醇曲线以各种方式被打乱，通常表现为连续几天傍晚皮质醇水平飙升后无法回落。
The thing that we call chronic stress is frankly when that cortisol curve gets disrupted in any number of ways, but typically it's late day cortisol spikes that don't come back down afterwards for three, four, five days in a row.
你的海马体——大脑中的记忆中枢——充满了皮质醇受体。
Your hippocampus, this memory center in the brain is chockablock full of cortisol receptors.
皮质醇与肾上腺素不同，它能穿过血脑屏障。
And cortisol, unlike adrenaline can pass through the blood brain barrier.
明白吗？
All right?
因此，它有多个结合位点，可以作用于记忆系统。
So it has a number of docking sites that allow it to engage the memory system.
压力会激活你的记忆系统，但长期下来会逐渐破坏这些结构。
What stress will engage your memory system, but that over time will start to deteriorate these structures.
所以，如果有人睡眠不好，我不是随便说说来安慰他们，你真的不希望让他们陷入恐慌。
So if somebody hasn't been sleeping well, you know, I'm not just saying this to make them feel better, you don't wanna send them into a panic.
所有这些系统都是可以恢复的。
And all of these systems can be recovered.
你知道，当马特上了罗根的节目时，我认为这是一个真正重要的里程碑。
You know, when Matt went on Rogan, I think it was an important like, truly important milestone.
我会说这是具有开创性的。
I'll say it was seminal.
没错。
Yeah.
就像他得救了一样。
Like, he is saved.
那一集可能已经挽救了数千年的生命，甚至可能是数十万年的人类生命总和。
That one episode has probably saved thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands of years of combined human life.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，我同意。
Oh, I agree.
我的意思是，我认为挑战在于，我认为马特会这么说，我有点借用他的话，就是他把所有人都吓坏了。
I mean, I think that the challenge, and I think that Matt would say this, I'm sort of borrowing his words, is that he sufficiently scared everybody.
那时候，能促进良好睡眠的选择更少。
There were fewer things to offer to do to promote good sleep at that time.
而更多是关于‘如果你不睡觉会发生什么’这类内容。
And there were more of a lot of like, here's what happens if you don't sleep.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
追求完美的压力会比你的不完美更快地杀死你。
The the stress of trying to be perfect will kill you more quickly than your imperfections.
就像，是的。
That like Yeah.
优化者的强迫倾向。
Optimizer obsessive thing.
你希望给人一种真正的自主感。
And you wanna give people a sense of of real agency.
帮助。
Help.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Yeah.
如果你对光线敏感，就调暗灯光，并限制咖啡因摄入。
Dimming the lights if you're light sensitive in particular, and limiting caffeine.
我的意思是，现在对我们来说这些都显而易见了。
I mean, the things that are sort of obvious to us now.
关于早晨晒太阳这件事，我认为大多数人并没有把它和睡眠联系起来，因为很难直观理解：你在一天刚开始的那一个小时里做点事来提高警觉性、刺激皮质醇分泌，如何能在十四小时后让你成为一个更好的睡眠者。
The morning sunlight thing, I think most people don't tether to their sleep, because it's not obvious how doing something in the first hour of your day to be more alert and spike cortisol creates a situation fourteen hours later where you are a better sleeper.
所以随着时间的推移，马特已经开始采纳这种方法。
So over time, Matt's started to adopt that.
我认为他还指出了酒精和大麻对睡眠的负面影响，我对此表示赞同。
I think he also pointed out the detriments of alcohol and cannabis on sleep, which I echo.
我想，即使回溯六七年，我们当时也并不了解市面上有那么多非处方成分对睡眠有帮助。
I think also if you think just back even six years, seven years, we weren't aware of the number of over the counter compounds that can be helpful for sleep.
人们当时仍主要考虑使用处方药来助眠，这些药对某些人确实有其作用，但大多数人还没考虑过镁三、镁八、茶氨酸、洋甘菊。
People were still thinking about drugs, prescription drugs for sleep, which have their place for certain people, but most people hadn't considered mag three and eight, theanine, chamomile.
现在我会再加上藏红花、酸樱桃，我们知道它们可以增加
Now I would add to that saffron, tart cherry, we know can increase
芹菜素？
Apigenin?
芹菜素和洋甘菊提取物。
Apigenin and chamomile extract.
类似。
Similar.
柠檬
Lemon
香蜂草。
balm.
柠檬香蜂草、猫薄荷。
Lemon balm, skullcap.
你知道吗？
You know?
听起来有点疯狂。
It sounds kinda crazy.
对吧？
Right?
听起来我们就像在某个杂志店的柜台后面。
It sounds like we're we're behind the counter at some, like, or magazine shop.
对吧？
Right?
蝾螈的眼睛和该死的巫师尾巴。
Eye of newts and a fucking wizard tail.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Right.
我的意思是，我来这儿并不是为了推广AGZ，但多年来我确实尝试过各种非补充剂类助眠方法，因为我无论在实验室内外都是个实验狂。
I mean, I didn't come here to do an AGZ plug, but I basically played around with a number of different non supplement things for sleep over the years, because I'm an experimenter in and out of the lab.
我可以跟你讲个高中时的疯狂故事，坐我后面的女生，我记得她叫埃琳·克伦纳德。
And I mean, I can tell you a wild story from high school where the girl sitting behind me, I remember her name, it was Erin Crenard.
我妈有些中草药片剂，我因为睡不着就吃了一片，是她给我的。
Mom had some tablets, some Chinese medicine tablets, I took one because I was having some issues sleeping and she gave me one.
那一整晚我都醒着，听见身后传来震耳欲聋的音乐。
And the whole night I was wide awake hearing music blaring from behind my head.
我想我当时处于一种似睡非睡的状态。
And I think I was in a pseudo sleep state.
哇。
Wow.
我当时不在场，觉得这真的很吓人。
I I was away, was like, that's really scary.
但我心想，哇，真的有一些化合物对睡眠非常有效。
But I was like, wow, there are compounds that really work for sleep.
然后还有一些像肽类物质Pinealine这样的东西，我稍微实验过。
And then there are things like the peptide pinealine I experimented with a bit.
关于它的研究在人类身上非常少。
Not a lot of human studies at all.
有一些有趣的啮齿类动物研究表明，它可能促进松果体中的松果体细胞再生。
Some interesting rodent studies may regenerate the pinealocytes in the pineal.
它让我每晚获得两个小时的REM睡眠。
It gives me like two hours a night of REM sleep.
但我要说，当我完全停止使用Pinealine后，我做了一个短期实验，我发现AGZ中的配方让我每晚的REM睡眠量翻倍，深度慢波睡眠也至少增加了三分之一。
But I will say, having completely halted Pineel, and I did a short run experiment with it, I will say that the formulation that's in AGZ has me sleeping with double the amount of REM sleep, and at least a third more slow wave deep sleep every night.
我只能喝下大约三分之二的量，再喝就感觉太多了，不是因为量太大，而是因为我的梦境变得太复杂了。
I can only drink about two thirds of that stuff before it's almost like too much, not because it's too much volume, but because my anymore in my dreams are just too elaborate.
它的神奇之处在于，我认为它含有多种成分。
And what's magic about it, think it's that it has a bunch of different things in it.
所以，我来这里并不是为了推广AGZ，但我认为他们确实做得很到位——在过去十年里，科学界和健康养生界已经达成共识：有一些方法可以有效改善你的睡眠。
So again, I didn't come here to plug AGZ, but I think that they really nailed it in the sense that in the last ten years, the scientific community, the health and wellness community has really come to the conclusion that there are things that can nudge your sleep in the right direction.
仅仅被告知‘如果你不睡觉，就会死于痴呆’，这确实令人恐惧。
So just being told, if you don't sleep, you're gonna die of dementia is scary.
你希望给人以掌控感。
You wanna give people agency.
另外，如果你感到疲倦，可能并不是需要更多睡眠，也不是需要更多咖啡因，而只是脱水了。
In other news, if you're feeling tired, you might not need more sleep, you might not need more caffeine, you might just be dehydrated.
适当的补水不仅仅是喝足够的水。
And proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water.
而是要摄入足够的电解质，以便身体能有效吸收这些水分。
It's about having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to properly absorb those fluids.
这款产品含有经过科学验证的电解质配比，包含钠、钾和镁，不含色素、糖分、人工成分或其他任何虚假添加。
Element contains a science backed electrolyte ratio, sodium, potassium, and magnesium, with no color, no sugar, no artificial ingredients, or any other BS.
它在减少肌肉痉挛和疲劳方面起着关键作用。
It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue.
它有助于优化大脑健康、调节食欲、抑制渴望，因此从安德鲁·休伯曼医生到奥运运动员，再到FBI狙击手团队都在使用。
It optimizes brain health, regulates your appetite, helps curb cravings, and that's why it's used by everyone from doctor Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams.
这种柠檬柠檬水口味，是我多年来每天早晨开始一天的方式。
This lemon lemonade flavor Nicole glass of water is how I've started my morning every single wait for years now.
他们提供无条件退款政策，你可以退货，他们甚至不会要求你退回包装盒。
They've got no questions asked refund policy, so you can return it, and they won't even ask you to send the box back.
此外，通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom，首次购买即可免费获得他们最受欢迎口味的试用装。
Plus, you can get a free sample pack of their favorite flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
不需要使用优惠码。
There's no code.
我通常更在意包装盒本身，而不是这个。
I usually care about the box more than that.
Drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom。
Drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
你会对那些难以入睡的人说什么？
What would you say to people who are struggling to fall asleep?
尽管他们可能已经做了白天该做的一切。
Though maybe they've done most of the things sort of through the day that you're supposed to.
他们没有在晚上太晚摄入咖啡因。
They're not taking caffeine too late at night.
他们可能洗了个热水澡。
They're maybe having a hot shower.
房间很凉爽。
The room's cool.
很安静。
It's quiet.
很黑暗。
It's dark.
他们已经接触过早晨的阳光，但晚上平复躁动的思绪，是我认为许多拼命工作的人会面临的挑战。
They've seen some morning sunlight, but calming down a racing mind at night is a challenge that I think a lot of hard chargers will deal with.
有哪些策略可以帮助放慢这种状态？
What are some strategies for slowing that down?
是的。
Yeah.
我认为非常重要的一点是，如果一个人非常注重健康并且是个拼命工作的人，他们很可能吃得非常健康。
Well, one thing that I think is really important is that if somebody's very health conscious and a hard charger, they're they're very likely eating pretty clean.
而对许多人（并非所有人）来说，入睡的一个挑战是他们的淀粉类碳水化合物摄入量不够。
And one of the challenges for many people, not all, to falling asleep is that their starchy carbohydrate intake is just not high enough.
如果你采用极低碳水淀粉的饮食，比如只吃肉类、水果和蔬菜，或者完全生酮，你会感到更有能量。
If you go on a very low starch diet, like let's say you just go meat, fruit, vegetables, or you go pure keto, you'll have a lot more energy.
一些遵循这种饮食方式的人可以睡得很好。
Some people who follow that kind of regimen can sleep well.
但像我这样的一些人发现，除非我在一天中的某个时候吃一些米饭或燕麦，尤其是当我进行力量训练时，否则很难入睡并保持深度睡眠。
Some people like myself find that unless I have some rice or oatmeal at some point during the day, especially if I'm doing resistance training, it's actually very hard to fall and stay deeply asleep.
如果我加一点，我想你们叫它粥，我们叫它燕麦片。
And if I just add, I guess you call it porridge, we call it oatmeal.
但你可以摄入少量对你来说合适的淀粉。
But you have a small amount of starch in the form of whatever starch is fine for you.
我会吃淀粉，我知道在健康和养生圈里这听起来很叛经离道。
I eat starches, I realize this is heretical in the health and wellness space.
但我还是会吃一些米饭、自制意面、酸面包、燕麦片之类的东西。
But I have some rice, or some homemade pasta, or some sourdough bread, or oatmeal or something.
如果你难以入睡，不妨看看你摄入了多少淀粉。
If you're having trouble falling asleep, take a look at how much starch you're having.
我不建议你在一天晚些时候大量摄入淀粉，但在最后一餐中摄入一些碳水化合物——这顿饭大概在睡前两三个小时——确实能帮助很多人入睡并保持深度睡眠。
I don't recommend gorging yourself with starch late in the day, but having some starchy carbohydrates in your final meal, which probably comes what, two, three hours before sleep or something like that, can certainly help a number of people fall and stay asleep.
我经常听到这种说法。
I've heard that many times.
我确实知道，我曾经以吃肉和水果为主来改善健康，因为那时我的大脑炎症非常严重。
I certainly know I did meat and fruit as a part of trying to fix my health because brain inflammation was really high.
我经常感到脑雾和记忆力减退。
I was getting a lot of brain fog, memory loss.
我发现其中一个能稍微缓解这种情况的方法是采用极低碳水饮食。
One of the things that I found that could counteract that a little bit was going very, very low carb.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但这影响了我的睡眠。
But that also impacted my sleep.
我感觉既紧张又疲惫，充满肾上腺素。
And I felt wired but tired, very adrenaline y
是的。
Yeah.
一直如此。
All the time.
当然。
Sure.
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我总是处于一种紧绷状态，而且我的咖啡因摄入也受到了限制，因为我试图减少刺激物，但始终感觉焦虑不安。
Sort of always on as if I'd and then my caffeine was limited as well because I was trying to limit stimulants, and I always felt on edge.
嗯。
Yeah.
有种持续的焦虑感，而且我的睡眠碎片化简直糟糕透顶。
Sort of ambient anxiety thing, and it impacted my sleep fragmentation was fucking horrendous.
然后我想，睡前一小时吃一两块米饼，会不会帮我稍微放松一点？
And, like, well, can I have a rice cake or, like, two rice cakes an hour before I go to bed to try and sort of kick me into this a little bit?
我试过很多方法，但如果你是生酮饮食、只吃肉和水果，我想知道当考虑到睡眠影响时，整体效果会怎样。
And experimented with a bunch of that, but, yeah, it's if you are carnivore, meat and fruits, keto, I wonder what the net effect is when you account for what's happening to sleep.
我相信很多人在低碳饮食下也能睡得很好，嗯。
And I'm sure that many people can sleep well on low carb of different Mhmm.
条纹。
Stripes.
但我就是不行。
But I I, for one, couldn't.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后我得权衡一下。
And then I'm, like, having to weigh this up.
比如，我到底能吃多少碳水化合物，才能避免大脑炎症让我感觉更迟钝、更疲倦，但又必须吃一些才能让我感觉好些，对吧？
Like, how how many how much carbs can I have before brain inflammation makes me feel a little bit more sluggish and more tired, and but I need to have some in order to make me so that was a Yeah?
这简直像一场魔鬼之舞。
It becomes a little bit of a of a devil's dance.
如果我们回到之前关于皮质醇的讨论，皮质醇的作用是在压力或早晨起床时，向身体和大脑释放能量。
I mean, if we return to our discussion about cortisol from earlier, cortisol's job is to deploy energy into the body and for the brain under conditions of stress or just getting up in the morning.
从睡眠到清醒的转变，是一次巨大的状态切换。
I mean, the transition from sleep to awake is a massive state shift.
这是一种正常且健康的切换，但在能量动员和思维需求方面，它的幅度非常大。
It's a normal healthy one, but it's a massive state shift in terms of mobilization requirements and thought requirements.
以及你能够线性化思维的能力——这是极客的说法，意思就是能够清晰思考，而不是做白日梦。
And just the ability to linearize your your thought, which is nerd speak for the ability to think not dream.
对吧？
Right?
或者基本上处于无意识状态。
Or be unconscious essentially.
所以当你体内循环的葡萄糖或能量储备较低时，皮质醇的作用是动员葡萄糖。
So when you have low circulating glucose or energy stores, cortisol's job is to mobilize glucose.
所以当你采用低碳水化合物饮食时，你的基础皮质醇水平会略高一些。
So when you're on a low carbohydrate diet, your baseline cortisol is a little bit higher.
这一点实际上已经被研究过了。
This actually has been examined.
好吧，事情是这样的。
Okay, so here's the deal.
如果你长期采用低碳水化合物饮食——我认为在这个案例中是三周或更长时间——你原本早晨高、下午和晚上低的皮质醇曲线会稍微趋于正常。
If you're on a low carbohydrate diet for a period of time, I think in this case it was three weeks or more, your cortisol curve that high in the morning, low in the afternoon and evening kind of normalizes a bit.
但在每个时间点上，它仍然比正常水平略高一些。
It's still a little bit higher at every point than it normally would be.
但如果你突然从摄入碳水化合物转向——我说的碳水化合物是指淀粉类碳水化合物。
But if you suddenly switch from eating carbohydrates When I say carbohydrates, I mean starchy carbohydrates.
明白吗？
Okay?
好吧，我们先不谈糖和果糖，毕竟它们也是一种糖。
Well, let's leave aside sugar and fructose, which of course is a form of sugar.
但如果你从一种典型的宏量营养素分布比例（比如40-30-30，或类似比例）——即摄入大量淀粉——转变为低碳水饮食，你的皮质醇水平会显著上升。
But if you shift from a sort of standard macronutrient distribution, forty, thirty, 30, or whatever it is, where you're eating starches to a low carbohydrate diet, your cortisol levels go up significantly.
这一点已经被研究过。
This has been explored.
随着时间推移，它们会逐渐恢复正常。
Over time, they normalize.
所以我认为人们需要记住的是，当我们谈论‘安慰性食物’时，人们往往将其理解为垃圾食品，比如披萨、冰淇淋。
So I think the important thing for people to remember is when we talk about comfort foods, people have taken that that phrase to mean junk foods, pizza, ice cream.
不是这样的。
Uh-uh.
这些并不是最初被称作安慰食品的食物。
Those aren't the comfort foods that were originally described as comfort foods.
被称为安慰食品的是那些淀粉类、温热的食物，你猜怎么着？
The comfort foods that were coined comfort foods are starchy warm foods, which guess what?
能抑制皮质醇。
Suppress cortisol.
因为当这些食物可得时，你的大脑和肾上腺就知道无需从储存中调动能量。
Because when those foods are available, your brain and essentially your adrenals know that you don't have to mobilize from stored sources.
能量已经循环在体内了。
It's already circulating.
所以这完全说得通。
So it makes perfect sense.
我的意思是，这只是你问的那些人们可以做的做法之一。
So I mean, this is just one kind of you asked for like what people could do.
看看你的营养摄入吧。
Say take a look at your nutrition.
你是不是在一天中太晚的时候锻炼？
Are you exercising too late in the day?
你能把锻炼时间移到早上吗？
Can you move that to the morning?
你永远不该告诉别人减少强度，因为正如多琳·叶斯最近非常优美地指出的那样，保留的重复次数就是保留的成果。
Can you you never want to tell people reduce the intensity because frankly, as Doreen Yates has been saying so beautifully lately, reps in reserve are results in reserve.
我们可以聊聊这个。
We could talk about that.
但我认为大多数人可能并没有足够努力地锻炼，但有些人却在健身房锻炼得太晚、太拼命，导致皮质醇水平升高。
But I think most people are probably not pushing hard enough, but some people are just pushing way too hard in the gym, too late, and then their cortisol levels are elevated.
难怪你睡不着，这完全说得通。
Makes perfect sense why you couldn't sleep.
所以我建议你看看你的饮食，确保一天中某个时候摄入足够的淀粉类食物。
So I would say, look at your diet, make sure you're getting enough starches at some point throughout the day.
甚至可以在睡前几小时内摄入一些淀粉类食物，然后观察一下你的睡眠情况如何。
Maybe even taking in a few starches in the couple of hours before sleep and just see how your sleep does.
有一些有趣的数据，尽管人们在服用极低剂量（1毫克）的锂之前应该咨询医生，我认为是或酸盐形式，以帮助促进入睡并增加深度睡眠。
There's some interesting data, although people should talk to their doctor about taking very low dose one milligram lithium, I think it's the orotate form, in order to encourage the ability to fall asleep and get more deep sleep.
但当然，我们这里谈论的是锂，所以人们一定要咨询医生。
But of course, we're talking about lithium here, so people need to definitely talk to your doctor.
还有一些其他的方法。
There's some other things too.
当然，也要关注你的照明环境。
Look at your lighting environment, of course.
但我认为，对很多人来说，入睡的主要问题是无法放下对身体姿势的关注。
But I think for a lot of people, the major issue with falling asleep is that they can't forget about the position of their body.
这时，数据就变得非常有趣了。
And this is where the data becomes super interesting.
目前有一些技术正在兴起，其中一些我有幸亲自体验过，我与这些技术没有任何经济利益关系，但我真希望有，因为它们太酷了。
There are some technologies that are being spun up right now, some of which I've had the opportunity to dabble with, and I have no financial relationship to, but I sure wish I did because it is so cool.
想象一下，一款能让你入睡的睡眠眼罩。
Imagine a sleep mask that could put you to sleep.
好的。
Okay.
好的，它会怎么做呢？
Okay, how would it do that?
事实上，眼球运动不仅出现在快速眼动睡眠期间，而入睡的前提之一是你忘记了自己的身体姿势。
Well, it turns out that eye movements are not just present during rapid eye movement sleep, but one of the prerequisites for falling asleep is that you forget about your body position.
你不会想，‘这不舒服，那里不该这样。’
You're not like, Oh, this is uncomfortable, that doesn't belong there.
你会关闭所谓的本体感觉，即对身体位置的感知。
You shut down what's called proprioception, your awareness of body position.
所以实际上有一些有趣的数据，这里我综合了几个来源。
So there's actually some interesting data, and here I'm kludging from a few places.
我想公平地说，我接下来要讲的内容听起来有点怪异。
I want to be fair because what I'm about to say sounds kind of kooky.
但这对许多难以入睡或无法重新入睡的人非常有效。
But this works for many, many people who are having trouble falling asleep or getting back to sleep.
你可以今晚试试这个。
You can try this tonight.
我经常这么做。
I do this often.
对我很有效。
It works for me.
你保持眼睛闭着，或者闭上眼睛。
You keep your eyes closed or you close your eyes.
你慢慢地将眼睛移到一侧，然后另一侧，一侧，再另一侧。
You move your eyes relatively slowly to one side, then the other side, one side, then the other side.
然后你让眼睛逆时针画圈，再顺时针画圈，接着向上，再向下。
Then you move your eyes in a counterclockwise circle, and then a clockwise circle, then up, then down.
接着你尝试一种假装对眼的动作。
And then you sort of do a kind of faux cross eyed attempt.
你稍微向下看向鼻梁，同时呼气，这会减缓你的心率。
You sort of look down towards the bridge of your nose and you exhale, which is going to slow your heart rate down.
那么，这些关于眼球运动的说法到底是什么意思呢？
Now, what is all this nonsense about eye movements?
我刚才这么做只是为了开玩笑，看看你会不会跟着做吗？
Did I just do this as a joke to see if you would do it?
事实上，如果你在试图入睡时这样做，你的前庭系统——本质上是与眼睛协同工作的，原因我们稍后可以讨论——
The truth is if you do this when you're trying to fall asleep, your vestibular system, which is essentially working in concert with your eyes for reasons we could talk about.
但你的小脑和前庭系统正从需要时刻高度关注身体位置并不断调整的状态，转变为一种你逐渐忽略身体位置的状态。
But your cerebellum and your vestibular system are essentially transitioning from where you need to be very aware of your body position and make adjustments all the time to one in which you're forgetting about body position.
我们知道，有大量数据表明，缓慢摇晃床铺有助于入睡。
And we know, and there are great data showing that a very slow rocking of a bed will help put you to sleep.
当你前后摇晃时，你的身体里并没有一个像节拍器一样的东西告诉你‘我在摇床’。
When you rock back and forth, your body doesn't have like a little metronome in it that says I'm rocking bed.
真正起作用的是你的眼球运动，它们以相反的方向补偿，向小脑传递信号：嘿，我们在摇晃。
It's your eye movements that compensate in the opposite direction, tell your cerebellum, Hey, we're rocking.
这就是为什么当你在船上，地平线这样晃动时，你会晕船，因为你无法对俯仰、偏航和横滚的零点进行定位。
This is why if you're on a boat and the horizon's going like this, you get seasick because you can't orient to kind of dead zero for pitch, yaw, and roll.
所以，我不打算在这里讲得太技术化，但如果你有睡眠困难，可以试试我刚才描述的方法几次。
And so anyway, I don't want to get too technical here, but if you have trouble sleeping, try what I just described a few times.
许多人发现这有助于他们入睡，因为你不再去想自己的身体姿势。
Many people find that it helps them fall asleep because you stop thinking about your body position.
当然，床和房间的凉爽也有帮助。
And of course, bed coolness, room coolness all can help.
但我刚才描述的方法对许多思绪纷乱的人非常非常有效。
But what I just described can be very, very helpful for a number of people whose minds are racing.
因为如果他们的思绪纷乱，你还需要给他们一些事情来转移注意力。
Because if their mind is racing, you also need to give people something to do with their mind.
你知道吗？
You know what?
你不能只是说‘别想它’、‘别想了’或‘快睡吧’，这没用。
You can't just say like, don't think about it, or stop thinking, or just go to sleep, that doesn't work.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你可以说‘醒过来’，但不能说‘快睡吧’。
You can say just wake up, but you can't say just go to sleep.
我们的自主神经系统中存在一种奇怪的不对称性。
There's a weird asymmetry built into our autonomic nervous system that way.
这太搞笑了。
It's so funny.
有两件事我觉得特别贴切，过去十八个月我一直在和健康问题作斗争，总结起来就是‘清醒但疲惫’。
Two things that I found because wide but tired has been kind of the fucking summary to the last eighteen months for me fighting with the health stuff.
一个是Matt提出的‘思维散步’。
One from Matt, which is a mind walk.
你带我
Do you take me
走一遍吗？
through this?
嗯。
Yeah.
你走过一条你非常熟悉的小路。
You go through a walk that you you're very familiar with.
嗯。
Yeah.
这有帮助吗？
Has that been helpful?
太棒了。
Wonderful.
哦，太好了。
Oh, great.
我通过这样做发现了一件事，对于那些没听这期节目的人，他们可以回去听几个月前我和马特的那期。
One of the things that I found by doing that so for the people that didn't listen to the episode, they can go back and listen to the one I did with Matt a few months ago.
太精彩了。
Brilliant.
基本上，你可以想象自己正走在某个你无比熟悉的地方，并尽可能细致地还原每一个细节。
Basically, you can imagine that you're going for a walk somewhere that you know unbelievably well and try and do it with as much resolution as possible.
所以我去橱柜那里。
So I go to the cupboard.
我打开橱柜的门。
I open the cupboard doors.
我的鞋子就在里面。
I've got my shoes in there.
我用右手伸进去把鞋子拿出来，放在地上。
I take them out to my right hand that reaches in and put them on the floor.
我拿出鞋拔。
I get the shoehorn.
每个人都需要一个鞋拔。
Everyone needs a shoehorn.
左脚伸进去。
Left foot in.
右脚伸进去。
Right foot in.
我拿到钥匙。
I get the key.
我知道钥匙的声音。
I know the sound of the key.
我关上门。
I close the doors.
我转过身。
I turn around.
我朝门走去。
I go toward the door.
我把钥匙插进去。
I put it in.
我转动钥匙。
I turn it.
那就是门的感觉。
Like, that's the feeling of the door.
我走到外面。
I get outside.
我感受到压力。
I feel the pressure.
就是所有那些东西。
Like, all of that stuff.
而我至少发现的是，当我快要睡着时，我仿佛踏上了一段旅程。
And what at least what I found is when I'm falling asleep, the sort of I'm on a journey.
这种冒险的感觉就像读小说，我需要解决各种问题。
This is an adventure thing is like reading fiction, and the I have problems to solve.
这属于执行功能。
This is executive function.
就像读非虚构作品。
It's like reading nonfiction.
对我来说，前者比后者更能帮助我入睡。
And for me, the former helps me fall asleep way more than the latter.
所以这是第一件事。
So that's the first thing.
第二件事是共振呼吸。
The second thing is resonance breathing.
如果我要在未来五年健康领域的 roulette 轮盘上押一点钱，我认为 HRV 共振呼吸将会变得极其重要。
I think this if I was to pick if I was to flick a little bit of money onto the roulette table of the next five years of health.
我认为 HRV 共振呼吸将会变得极其重要。
I think HRV resonance breathing is gonna be fucking huge.
有几款产品，特别是其中一款，让我非常非常兴奋。
And there's a couple of products, one in particular, that I'm super, super excited about.
这是一款很酷的台灯。
It's this cool lamp.
想象一下，一盏床头灯，灯顶有一个小凹槽，像个小口袋，里面放着一块石头。
So imagine a a bedside lamp, and on the top of it is a little divot, like a little pocket, and that's got a stone in it.
你把石头取出来，这块石头内置了 FDA 认证的 HRV 传感器。
You take the stone out, the stone's got an FDA HRV sensor.
你只需握住这块石头，就可以打开或关闭台灯的灯光、声音以及其他功能。
You just hold the stone in your hand, and you can either turn the light of the lamp on or off and sounds and all the rest of the stuff.
但它能进行三分钟、六分钟、九分钟和十二分钟的疗程，配备超高精度的传感器。
But it does three, six, nine, twelve minute sessions with, like, a super high fidelity sensor.
如果你晚上难以入睡，只需拿起它，握在手中，根据‘嗯哼’的提示进行呼吸。
And it means if you're struggling to fall asleep on a nighttime, you can just sort of grab it, put it in your hand, do the breathing based on Mhmm.
石头还会传来触觉振动，整个过程可以完全静音。
Like a tactile vibration coming from the stone too, it can all be silent.
所以如果你的伴侣在旁边床上睡觉，你也可以这样做。
So if your partner's in the bed next to you, you can do that.
它还能感知你何时达到共振状态，即迷走神经张力达到峰值时，然后你只需把石头放回灯座顶部，那里是石头的感应充电座。
And it knows when you hit resonance as well when you get into that maximum vagal tone, And then you just pop it back on the top, and the top of it is an induction charger for the stone.
我觉得这简直是太牛了。
I was like, this is the fucking sickest.
这是谁做的？
Who makes this?
这是一家叫OHM的公司，o-h-m。
It's a company called OHM, o h m.
它目前处于暗模式，我想是OHM.dot.health。
It's currently in currently in dark mode, I think, OHM dot health.
不是了。
Not anymore.
嗯，对。
Well, yeah.
没什么。
Nothing.
告诉了全世界。
Told the world.
没错。
That's true.
我的意思是，我甚至不知道你能不能买到，我觉得你买不到。
I mean, I don't even know if you can buy I don't think you can buy them.
所以，是的，杰·怀尔斯，我是Absolute Rest的睡眠教练，他是安迪·加尔平的人。
So but, yeah, Jay Wiles, who's my sleep coach from Absolute Rest, he's Andy Galpin's guy.
杰是这个项目的一部分，我认为我是公司外部第一个拿到这个设备的人。
Jay's a part of it, and I think I'm the first person outside of the company to have got one.
我当时就想，这他妈太棒了。
And I was like, this fucking rules.
因为HRV共振呼吸效果很好，会让你感觉特别好。
Because HRV resonance breathing is great and makes you feel really good.
但如果你要用高端的HRV设备，就得把那个带子绑在手臂或手腕上，然后还得按下按钮，连接蓝牙，设备得保持开启，你的手机还得摆在面前，一大堆麻烦事。
But if you're gonna use elite HRV and you've gotta put the, like, strap thing around your arm or your wrist, and then you gotta press it, and you gotta connect the Bluetooth, and it's gotta be up to and you got your phone in front of you and all that.
根本就没有那种能独立使用、拿起来就能用的设备。
There's no just stand alone pick it up and go of this.
而且它是个台灯，外观非常漂亮，其他所有东西也都很好。
And the fact that it's a lamp, it looks really beautiful, the all the rest of the shit.
总之，我一直都在用这个。
Anyway, I've been using that.
在这两者之间，对我而言，冥想散步非常非常有效。
So between those two, the mind walk thing for me was was very, very powerful.
但有些日子，你需要更偏向生理层面的干预，嗯。
But some days, you need a more, like, physiological intervention Mhmm.
还有共振呼吸。
And the resonance breathing.
对我来说，如果晚上难以入睡，这两样东西都很有帮助。
Those two things for me, I think, if I'm struggling to fall asleep on a nighttime.
但眼动疗法我觉得潜力很大。
But the eye movement stuff, I think, has got has got a lot of legs.
所以把所有这些方法都结合起来。
So so stack all of those together.
我会想象自己手里拿着一块石头去散步，看得眼睛都快对上了。
I'm gonna be cross eyed, imagining that I'm going for a walk holding a stone in my hand.
也不是真的看得那么严重对眼。
Not excessively cross eyed.
这更像是你向下看，大脑干中有一些核团，直接控制着清醒水平。
It's just more like you sort of look it's like you're sort of looking down and, you know, there are these nuclei in the brainstem that literally control levels of wakefulness.
当你向上看时，实际上是在激活自主神经系统的交感分支，让你更加警觉。
When you look up, you it's it's essentially activating the arm of your autonomic nervous system, which makes you more alert.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这听起来很神奇。
It says wild.
眼皮会睁开。
And eyelids open.
这真的很有趣。
It's really interesting.
当你向下看并闭上眼皮时，实际上是在激活促进困倦的神经回路，或者至少是更偏向副交感神经的回路。
And and when you look down and when and bring your eyelids down, you're act you're actually pedaling on the on the circuits that promote sleepiness or at least that are more parasympathetic.
我的意思是，这听起来很有道理。
I mean, it makes it makes good sense.
另外，我多年来每天早上都喝AG ONE。
In other news, I've been drinking AG one every morning for years.
老兄，你刚才那招是想速投我吧。
Dude, you tried to fastball me that.
那球就在好球区，我就跟大谷翔平一样做了。
That was down the plate, and I've just shohei otani did.
从我记事起，我就一直在喝AG ONE。
I've been drinking AG one for as long as I can remember.
这是我找到的最全面的饮品，这就是我如此喜欢它的原因。
It is the best all in one drink that I've ever found, and that's why I'm such a fan of them.
这也是我与他们合作的原因。
And that's why I partnered with them as well.
我已经让我妈妈、爸爸和所有朋友都开始服用它。
I have got my mom to start taking it, my dad to start taking it, and all of my friends as well.
如果我找到更好的，我会换，但我还没找到。
And if I found anything better, I would switch, but I haven't.
你为什么总往麦克风上扔？
Why do you keep throwing it at the mic?
别往麦克风上扔了。
Stop throwing it at the mic.
看到了吗？
See?
Anyway，含有超过75种维生素、矿物质和全食物来源成分。
Anyway, over 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients.
含有益生菌和益生元。
Got probiotics and prebiotics.
还获得了NSF认证，意味着即使是奥运选手也可以使用。
Also NSF certified, meaning that even Olympians can use it.
在喉咙里。
And in the throat.
在喉咙里。
In the throat.
你怎敢如此？
How dare you?
我撞到我撞到，操。
I hit the I hit Oh, fuck.
啊。
Ah.
这已经根本不是广告配音了。
This isn't even an ad read anymore.
这简直是个战场。
It's just a war zone.
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
好吧。
Okay.
总之，如果你也想找个东西扔向朋友，或者想要一种美味的混合物，包含七十五种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和全食物来源的成分，专为早上第一件事喝下而设计，一勺茶即可，前往 drinkag1.com/modernwisdom 购买。
Anyway, if you too want something to throw at your friends or a tasty blend of seventy five vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients designed to drink first thing in the morning in one scoop of tea, go to drinkag1.com/modernwisdom for stuff.
谢谢。
Thank you.
跟我聊聊这个抬高头部促进脑淋巴清除的事情吧，因为如果你有Eight Sleep那种可以抬升床垫功能的床，它的一个作用就是稍微抬高你的头部，帮助睡眠。
Talk to me about this raised head for glymphatic clearance thing because I've if you if anyone's got an Eight Sleep with the mattress raising functionality, one of the things it does for sleep is it actually raises your head a little bit.
这和
Is that
这很好。
That's good.
和我们刚才讨论的内容有关吗？
Related to what we're talking about here?
你希望头部高于脚部吗？
You want head above feet?
头部高于脚部是为打鼾设计的，但它还有其他好处。
Head above they designed that for for snoring, but it has other other benefits.
所以我不打算就淋巴系统做一场完整的讲座，因为最近我在我的播客里已经单独讲过了。
So without doing an entire lecture on the lymphatic system, because we did a solo on that recently in my podcast.
我的意思是，我就直说了，淋巴系统太神奇了。
I mean, I'll just say the lymphatic system is amazing.
它真的很神奇，我把它比作肠道菌群——十年前、十五年前，如果你谈论肠道菌群，人们会觉得这太疯狂了。
It's amazing and I liken it to the microbiome where ten years ago, fifteen years ago, if you talked about the microbiome, people were like, That's just crazy.
发酵的低糖食物，这简直是健康饮食的疯话。
Fermented low sugar foods, this is like health food lunacy.
但现在，我想在美国乃至全球，针对肠道菌群的研究，联邦拨款可能已经接近五亿甚至十亿美元了，因为它对身心健康都至关重要。
Now, I mean, they're probably close to maybe 500,000,000 or a billion dollars even in federal grants, certainly in The US and around the world, looking at the microbiome, it's important for everything, mental health, physical health.
我们现在已经清楚这一点了。
We just know this.
肠道太重要了。
The gut is so important.
我认为淋巴系统也会走上类似的轨迹。
The lymphatic system, I think, is going to follow a similar trajectory.
我们听到的所有关于弹跳、在蹦床上跳跃或跳绳的说法，结果都是完全正确的。
And all the stuff that we hear about rebounding, bouncing on a trampoline or skipping rope, all of that stuff turns out to be absolutely true.
或者淋巴按摩，这本质上是一种清理——
Or lymphatic massage, which is essentially a way of clearing the-
我非常喜欢淋巴按摩。
I love lymphatic massage.
有趣的是，对于习惯于深层组织按摩的人来说，
You know, it's interesting because lymphatic massage, for those that are accustomed to deep tissue
感觉什么都没有。
Feels like nothing.
感觉什么都没有，但淋巴管非常表浅，如果你按得太重，实际上会把它们压闭了。
It feels like nothing, but the lymphatic the lymphatic vessels run so superficially that if you press on them too hard, you actually you you you cinch them off.
感觉就像有人在轻轻抚摸你。
It feels like you're being stroked by somebody.
是的。
Yeah.
他们提到轻柔的刷拭，然后可能再多一点情感。
I think they talk about a light brushing and then that, you know, maybe a little bit more emotion.
有更深的淋巴管可以承受更大的压力，但人们需要经过训练才能正确进行。
There are deeper lymphatic vessels that can take more pressure, but people are trained to do this, do it right.
网上有一些教程，有一个非常好的账号。
And there's some tutorials online that there's a great account.
我不认识这个人，但他是被凯利·斯塔雷特推荐给我的，他说的那个‘别追逐疼痛’的人，他有个‘六大法’。
I don't know the guy, but he was referred to me by Kelly Starrett, tells me that stop chasing pain guy, he has this big six.
我不想在这里描述它们，因为我可能会说错，但他在Instagram和YouTube上有很多视频。
I don't want to describe them here because I'll get them wrong, but he has a number of videos on Instagram and YouTube.
‘六大法’描述了你可以用来促进淋巴按摩的几种方式。
The big six describes ways that you can encourage lymphatic massage.
我一直觉得这里的拍打有点傻。
I always thought that the tapping here was kind of silly.
实际上，这是因为淋巴管最终将免疫系统已经监测过的所有淋巴液排回血管系统，就在锁骨下方。
It's actually because the lymphatic ducts drain back into the Essentially dump all the lymph that's been surveilled by your immune system, etcetera, back into the vascular system just below your clavicles.
哦，真有趣。
Oh, funny.
另一个要点是，接下来我们谈谈类淋巴系统清除。
And as another point, then we'll get to glymphatic clearance.
我曾向一位从未见过、在商业上毫无关联的人致意。
I gave a shout out to someone I've never met, don't have any association with business wise or anything.
这位Anastasia Beauty Fascia是一位女性，我认为她是中东人，抱歉。
This Anastasia beauty fascia is this woman, I think of Middle Eastern excuse me.
这位女性是东欧人，显然不是中东外貌，她谈论的是非手术、非肉毒杆菌的面部提升方法。
Is this woman of Eastern European she's certainly not Middle Eastern appearing, of Eastern European origin talking about nonsurgical, non Botox interventions for facial augmentation.
用于提升颧骨、消除男女眼下的浮肿，但你看到的主要是女性。
For higher cheekbones and clearing away puffy puffiness underneath the eyes for men and for women, but mostly what you see there are women.
但你会发现，这些人展示的前后对比图，他们坚称——我认为他们甚至发过誓——没有使用任何注射或手术，效果非常显著。
But what you find is that the before and afters that these people list off and they insist that I think they take an oath or something that they're not doing any injectables or surgeries are striking.
这是来自面部、头皮和下颌周围的淋巴引流。
And it's lymphatic drainage from the face and from the scalp and from around the jaw.
你会觉得，这简直难以置信。
You go, this is I mean, it is unbelievable.
好的。
Okay.
所以无论如何，类淋巴系统——
So in any case, the glymphatic system-
类淋巴系统是淋巴系统吗？
Is glymphatic lymphatic?
它们是一回事吗？
Is it the same thing?
所以它们是相似的。
So they're analogous.
多年来，人们一直认为大脑中没有淋巴系统。
So for many, many years, it was thought that there was no lymphatic system in the brain.
长期以来，我们以为大脑是免疫豁免的，但事实并非如此。
It was thought that it was Actually for many years, we thought that the brain was immune privileged, turns out that's not true.
大脑中存在各种免疫基因和蛋白质。
You have all sorts of immune genes and proteins in the brain.
但事实是，这一点在几年前——2012年——被发现，实际上更早之前就已发现，只是科学界当时压制了这一发现。
But it turns out, and this was discovered some years ago, 2012, was it actually discovered prior, but as science goes, it was suppressed.
后来终于发现，在睡眠期间，尤其是深度睡眠时，大脑血管周围的间隙会变大。
Then it was finally discovered that during sleep, in particular deep sleep, the story goes, the spaces around the vasculature of the brain get bigger.
好的，大脑中有一些被称为星形胶质细胞的细胞类型，它们属于胶质细胞的不同种类，这些细胞具有细小的足突，能实际将脑组织推向远离动脉、血管和毛细血管的方向，从而让更多的脑脊液得以进入——脑脊液全天都在你的大脑中循环，收集细胞产生的废物。
Okay, you have these little cell types in the brain called astrocytes that are among the different types of glia, and they have these little ENFI, and they literally push the brain tissue out and away from the arteries and vessels and capillaries, allowing more cerebral spinal fluid, which is circulating in your brain all day long, and collecting the waste from your cells.
请注意，大脑细胞会产生大量废物，因为大脑是人体新陈代谢最活跃的器官。
And mind you, there's a lot of waste from your brain cells because your brain is the most metabolically active organ.
这些废物需要被冲走，实际上会流向大脑表面、被称为脑膜下方的区域，然后向下流动，最终排入血管系统。
And then that needs to get washed out and actually goes out near the surface of your brain underneath what's called the meninges, then it flows down and then drains into the vascular system.
如果人们记不住关于淋巴引流的其他任何内容，请记住这一点：身体的肌肉运动能清除淋巴液。
If people can remember nothing else about lymphatic drainage, remember this, muscular movement clears lymph in the body.
明白吗？
Okay?
所以你需要走路，进行低强度的肌肉收缩。
So you need to walk low level muscular contraction.
它本质上推动淋巴向上流动，因为要对抗重力。
It essentially moves the lymph up because it's fighting gravity.
这些是单向阀门。
These are one way valves.
它从你的四肢收集淋巴液，最终将其排回血液循环系统。
It brings it in from your limbs, and it essentially dumps it back eventually into the blood supply.
身体的不活动是驱动大脑类淋巴清除的关键因素。
Inactivity of the body is what drives glymphatic clearance in the brain.
因此，当你在睡眠中基本处于静止状态时，会获得最大的类淋巴清除效果。
And so it's when you're essentially immobilized during sleep that you get the maximum amount of glymphatic clearance.
侧卧睡觉（无论是右侧还是左侧），头部略微倾斜，似乎是更理想的姿势。
Sleeping on your side, right or left side doesn't seem to matter with the head slightly tilted does seem to be the preferable position.
所以所有像我这样的仰卧者，有些人
So all you back sleepers like me, some people
你是仰卧者吗？
You're a back sleeper?
我一直是仰卧睡觉。
I have been a back sleeper.
你那脖子能这样睡？
With that neck?
你那脖子。
With that neck.
除非我抱着睡，否则我就是个仰卧者。
Unless I'm spooning, I'm a I'm a lax.
我是啊。
I'm Yeah.
啊。
A
嗯。
Yeah.
仰卧睡觉。
Back sleeper.
嗯。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
我是个仰卧者。
I'm a back sleeper.
但我一直在努力改睡侧卧，我听说实际上可能安迪·加尔文参与了一些研究，让受试者佩戴腰包，这样就无法仰卧了。
So but I've I've been working on sleeping on my side, and I heard actually maybe Andy Galvin's involved in some studies where subjects wear a fanny pack so that they can't sleep on their back.
他们必须侧卧。
They have to sleep on their side.
他从Absolut Rest给我寄了一个超大的卷状物，看起来像软装饰品
He sent me from Absolut Rest this huge fuck off roll thing, which looks like soft furnishing
嗯，是的。
with Yeah.
啊。
A
嗯，我的意思是，这个确实是。
Well, I mean, this was yeah.
这是一个大卷状物，沿着你的背部中央放置，这样你就完全不可能仰卧了。
It's it's a big roll that goes down the middle of your back, so there's no way that you can be on your back at all.
好的。
Okay.
所以。
So
这个在
that's on
更多了。
that much more.
称它为腰包或屁股包，简直是低估了它有多么巨大。
Calling it a fanny pack or a bum bag is a wild disservice to how, like, colossal this thing is.
它是一个
It's a
克里斯，你只能雇个人来给你喂饭了。
You're just gonna have to hire somebody to spoon you, Chris.
这意味着你必须屈服于
It just means that you'll have to give in to
有趣的是，你提到你睡侧卧时状态很好。
Well, mean, it's interesting that you mentioned that you sleep well on your side.
因为我是你的胡伯曼，睡眠小玩偶。
I because I'm your own Huberman, sleep sleep doll.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢侧睡，抱着别人确实感觉很好。
I like I like sleeping on my side, and it does feel good to to hold somebody.
我想如果你是仰卧睡觉的人，我知道我确实用鼻贴。
I suppose if you're a back sleeper you know, I I do use the nasal strips Mhmm.
来扩大我的呼吸空间。
To open up my breathing room.
试过吸气器吗？
Tried intake?
你用什么？
What do you use?
我只是在网上订购了一些鼻贴。
I just I order some nose strips that online I
让我来帮你彻底解决鼻贴问题。
Let me allow me to fucking fix your nose strip problem.
好吧。
Okay.
如果不用鼻贴，每个人都有鼻贴问题。
Everyone has a nose strip problem if they're not using it.
所以这些人已经为此申请了专利。
So these guy they've got patents on it.
它不是那种柔性的、一次性的东西，而是一个硬质的3D打印塑料件，两侧装有磁铁，然后你在鼻子皮肤上贴两个磁片，接着你
Instead of it being a flexible disposable thing, this is a hard three d printed piece of plastic that's got magnets attached on both sides, and then you put two magnet patches on the skin of your nose, and then you
但不会把磁铁放进我鼻子里吧？
But no magnets up my nose?
不会。
No.
全部都在外面。
It's all on the outside.
外面贴两个磁片。
So two patches on the outside.
然后你把这个不可一次性使用的装置扣上去，我不是在开玩笑。
And then you snap this non disposable thing on, and it's I'm not kidding.
它的力量必须是原来的三倍、四倍、五倍
It must be three times, four times, five times stronger
太好了。
Great.
比普通的强多了。
Than the normal ones.
这就像是
And that's like
太好了。
Great.
嗯。
Yeah.
因为我的鼻子呼吸一直很好。
Because I have pretty good respiration through my nose.
但几年前，真是个愚蠢的事故，是在实验室里，我撞裂了鼻窦。
But years ago, stupid accident actually in a lab, and I cracked a sinus.
我站起来时撞到了冰箱门，这事说来话长。
I stood up, hit a freezer door, it was a there's a whole story there.
有时候当你提到是的。
Sometimes when you talk about Yep.
我们都不喝酒，所以不是喝啤酒。
Over not beers since neither of us drink.
你喝酒吗？
Do you drink?
偶尔。
Intermittently.
我最近什么时候喝过啤酒？
When did I have I had beers recently.
我什么时候喝过啤酒？
When did I have beers?
演出之后。
After the show.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我看完演出后喝了啤酒。
I had beers after the show.
没什么好羞愧的。
No no shame
在这方面。
in that.
我已经很久没有喝酒了。
I haven't I haven't had alcohol in a long time.
太爱了。
Too adore.
但我们可以在私下聊聊一些你懂的，受伤的故事总是很有趣。
But we could talk about some of the you know, injury stories are always fun offline.
但关于脑淋巴系统清除，数据非常明确：如果你能侧睡，即使仰卧，也能实现脑淋巴系统清除。
But, yeah, I think that for glymphatic clearance, the data are very clear that you want to if you can sleep on your side, you're still going get glymphatic clearance if you sleep on your back.
把头部稍微抬高一点，但不要太高。
Have your head slightly elevated, not too much.
但请记住，你的身体在对抗腿部淋巴清除时，正在与重力作斗争。
But keep in mind that your body is fighting the lymphatic clearance in your legs is fighting gravity.
所以理论上，如果你想做得更好一点，可以稍微抬高一点，但别太高，对吧？
So in theory, want to be if you want to be super a little bit bow, but not too much, right?
我们现在知道的是，如果你在椅子上睡觉，这些研究已经在多个睡眠实验室中进行过。
Now what we do know is that if you sleep in a chair, these studies have been done in various sleep labs.
如果你在飞机上或类似情况下坐在椅子上睡觉，你可能会认为，你肯定能获得更多的脑淋巴清除。
If you sleep in a chair like on flight or something like that, you would think, well, you must get a lot more glymphatic clearance.
你可能确实会获得更多，但你也可能因此导致身体其他部位的淋巴引流严重不足。
And you probably do, but you probably get a lot more lack of lymphatic drainage from the body.
所以这些研究中有一些非常清晰的图片。
So there's some really nice pictures in these studies.
似乎所有哺乳动物睡觉时都会把头低下。
Every mammal it seems puts its head down to sleep.
我认为长颈鹿实际上是把前额直接垂到地上睡觉。
I think giraffes actually just kind of like drop their forehead onto the ground.
好的。
Okay.
但没有任何动物，没有哺乳动物会……可能有人会告诉我我错了，我很想看看例子，因为我喜欢动物。
But there are no animal no mammals that And someone will probably tell me I'm wrong here, I'd love to see the examples because I love animals.
但这些论文中的论点是，所有哺乳动物睡觉时都会把头低下。
But the argument that's been made in these papers is that every mammal puts its head down to sleep.
如果你想象一下，不妨在睡觉前和睡醒后拍张照片，或者更糟的是，在经历了一个极其糟糕的夜晚后拍张照片。
And if you think about Take a picture of yourself sometime before sleep and after sleep, or worse, take a picture of yourself after one really terrible night's sleep.
看看你的脸。
Just look at your face.
有几件事会变得很明显。
A couple of things become clear.
你会看起来浮肿，人们眼下的黑眼圈，那是淋巴液积聚的结果。
You'll look bloated, the bags under people's eyes, that's buildup of lymph.
明白吗？
Okay?
晚了几个小时——就是这样
A couple hours late- That's
就是这样。
what that is.
就是这样。
That's what that is.
这是淋巴积聚，这就是为什么这种麻醉美容筋膜疗法旨在学习如何促进淋巴引流的通道。
It's buildup of lymph, which is why this anesthesia beauty fascia thing is about learning to kind of increase the portals for lymphatic drainage.
这与筋膜有很大关系，因为它们彼此紧密相邻。
And it has a lot to do with the fascia because they run so closely together.
这些血管当然位于筋膜的不同深度。
The vessels of course at different depths relative to the fascia.
这就是美容淋巴引流的大部分内容。
That's a lot of what lymphatic drainage for aesthetics is.
但看看你睡醒后的样子，你的大脑雾感。
But look at yourself after sleep, your brain fog.
睡眠不足后你感受到的大脑模糊，其实是脑脊液中堆积的废物造成的。
The brain fog you feel after lack of sleep, the buildup of crap is within the cerebral spinal fluid.
这些都是氨、二氧化碳，以及白天积累的各种蛋白质碎片。
It's all the ammonia, the carbon dioxide, all the some protein fragments that have built up during the day.
你大脑越活跃，这些物质积累得越多，夜间就越需要被清除。
And the more active you are with your brain, the more they build up and the more they need to be cleared out at night.
而在我看来同样令人惊叹的是，看看你睡眠不足时的照片，如果第二天晚上好好睡一觉，第二天早上再拍一张，你会发现自己看起来像完全变了个人，包括眼睛的明亮度。
So and then what's equally impressive if you ask me is take a look at that picture of yourself sleep deprived, you get a good night's sleep the next night, take a picture of yourself the next morning, you look like a completely different person, including the the brightness of the eyes.
原来，在你眼睛的虹膜周围——也就是中间那个黑点及其周边——其实能明显看出一个人睡眠质量如何。
So it turns out around the iris of your eye, that black dot in the middle and and around it, you you can actually see when people haven't slept well.
眼睛的颜色确实会发生变化，这与眼房水前房中淋巴液的积聚有关。
There's actually a change in color of the eyes that has to do with the accumulation of lymph in the anterior chamber of the eye.
而眼睛的后房，即感光组织视网膜所在的位置，实际上与大脑共享相同的淋巴清除系统。
And the posterior chamber of the eye, is where the light sensing tissue is, the retina, actually shares the same lymphatic clearance system as your brain.
顺便说一句，我刚才所讲的所有关于大脑淋巴清除的内容，对脊髓也同样适用。
By the way, everything I'm talking about for brain for lymphatic clearance is true for spinal cord too.
所以关于运动学习，人们非常关注脊髓，所有运动员都在想，是的，我需要大脑，但更需要的是脊髓。
So for all this stuff about motor learning and people are so concerned about their spinal cord, all the athletes are thinking, yeah, I need a brain, but mostly need a spinal cord.
开个玩笑，但你两者都需要。
Just kidding, but you need both.
但这里的关键是，当人们看起来疲惫时，眼睛也会显得疲惫。
But the idea here is that when people look tired, the eyes look tired.
这不仅仅是眼睑下垂的问题。
It's not just in the eyelids being hooded.
眼睛看起来呆滞无神。
The eyes look glassy.
它们看起来不太对劲。
They don't look quite right.
而当他们睡得好之后，眼神又恢复了光彩。
And then they they sleep well and their life comes back in the eyes.
这是因为他们清除了眼睛中的淋巴液。
It's because they cleared the lymph from their eyes.
谁会想到，终极的奢华解决方案竟然只是睡个好觉，把头抬高一点呢？
Who knew that the ultimate lux maxing solution was to just get a better night's sleep and raise your head a bit?
对。
Right.
嗯，我觉得一个枕头就够了？
Well, I think Is a pillow enough?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你不需要太多，这并不复杂。
You don't have to It's not too much.
你不想让头部后仰。
What you don't want is your head tilted back.
当然，这也会增加睡眠呼吸暂停的风险。
And that's also of course a risk for apnea.
对吧？
Right?
也就是说，为什么所有健美运动员和大块头经常在睡梦中猝死，你知道，通常是因为他们基本上在窒息。
Mean, is why all the bodybuilders and big guys drop dead in their sleep you know, often is because of they just basically asphyxiating themselves.
所以我认为解决打鼾问题很重要。
So I do think fixing snoring is important.
鼻贴听起来不错，
The nose strips sound great,
这些
these
鼻磁贴。
nose magnets.
我打算试试下颌矫正装置，你知道的，一种特殊的牙套来尝试调整
I'm about to try a mandibular device, you know, like a special mouthguard to try and adjust
你有睡眠呼吸暂停吗？
Do you have apnea?
有一点。
A little.
是的。
Yeah.
这是残留睡眠呼吸暂停，只发生在残留期。
It's remnant juice apnea, so it only happens in remnant.
你和我应该一起去斯坦福一趟。
You and I should take a trip up to Stanford together.
认真的，那里有几位专家。
Seriously, there's a couple up there.
保罗·埃利希，多年前写了《人口炸弹》的人。
Paul Ehrlich, who wrote the Population Bomb many years ago.
我想他会说，这可能没有实现。
I think he would say it probably didn't pan out.
还有桑德拉·汗，我认为她是颅面外科或正畸方面的医生。
But and Sandra Khan, who's I think is in craniofacial surgery or orthodontics or something.
他们就是写了《大白鲨》这本书的人。
They were the ones that wrote the book Jaws.
不是那本由罗伯特·萨波尔斯基作序、贾雷德·戴蒙德写前言的《大白鲨》。
Not the Jaws with forward by Robert Sapolsky, Jared Diamond, I think wrote the introduction.
这些都是重量级的严肃科学学者。
These are heavy hitter serious science academics.
正是他们探讨了转向软食、袋装食品以及婴儿食品，如何引发了正畸行业的巨大扩张。
And they were the ones that talked about the transition to soft foods, to packet based foods, to baby food has created this massive explosion in the industry for orthodontics.
内斯托尔的研究是建立在他们之上的吗？
Was Nestor's work downstream from them?
詹姆斯·内斯托尔的研究？
James Nestor's?
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
内斯特的书可以说是他们所说内容的现代版本。
Nester's kind of the His book is kind of the modern iteration of a lot of what they were saying.
但我觉得他们即将出版另一本书，进一步强调鼻呼吸的真实性。
But they are I think they're coming out with another book that's really pushing this thing that the nasal breathing is real.
你能做到这样吗？我有点做不到，但你能闭上嘴，把整个舌头贴在上颚上，而不需要把舌头往后卷到牙齿后面吗？
The ability to, I I can't quite do this, but can you close your mouth and put your entire tongue on the roof of your mouth without having to kinda curl it back behind your teeth?
你的上颚有足够空间容纳舌头吗？
Is there space for your tongue
上颚有一点空间。
on the roof of your A little.
我的腭部可以稍微扩展一下，因为我小时候拔了六颗牙。
My palate, I can do with a bit of expansion because I had six teeth removed as a kid.
嗯。
Mhmm.
大概是上面四颗，下面两颗，我想。
Like, four from the top and two from the bottom, I think.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我觉得，我的摄像师马克斯不在这里，他正在经历两到三个严重的牙科治疗。
So I think I mean, Max, who isn't here, my videographer, had a really he's going through two or three really serious dental procedures.
其中一次，他试图通过隐形矫正器来做，那是一种缓慢的腭扩张器。
And with one of them, he was trying to do it through Invisalign, and it was a slow palate expander.
现在隐形矫正器也能做腭扩张了。
Invisalign do a palate expander now.
他说，老兄，这得花个三年左右才能完成，但他们可以更激进一点地操作。
He's like, dude, this is gonna take, like, fucking three years for me to do this, but they can do it a little bit more aggressively.
听起来他是个极端案例。
Sounds like he's a kind of extreme case.
因为卡恩和艾利希与那个‘抿嘴’ guy 有联系。
Because Kahn and and Ehrlich have this association with, you know, the the mewing guy.
你知道吗？
You know?
真的吗？
Is that true?
这是真的吗？
Is that real?
关于咀嚼法，其实它涉及到正确实现鼻腔呼吸这个概念。
The mewing well, the mewing thing is is it plays into this notion of of getting your nasal breathing right.
就是，你知道，闭上嘴，把舌头放在上颚，然后你能在这样按压的同时吞咽吗？我这么描述有点粗略。
It's like, you know, close your you know, like like close your mouth, put your tongue on the roof of your mouth, and then can you swallow while, you know, pushing the I'm describing this, you know, coarsely.
你知道，每当出现像这样的人物时——我从未见过他，我想他叫迈克·米乌，对吧？
You know, that the problem is, anytime you get a figure like that, and I've never met him, I think his name is Mike Mew, right?
米乌。
Mew.
每当有人在医学某个分支上走得过于极端，这个人要么被排斥，要么就得付出巨大努力才能获得认可。
Anytime you get somebody who's extreme off of the normal thrust of a one branch of medicine, that person is either going to be ostracized, or they're going to have to go through some serious gymnastics to get acceptance.
看，我的同事大卫·斯皮格尔。
Look, my colleague, David Spiegel.
我喜欢大卫。
Love David.
斯坦福大学精神病学的副主任。
Vice chair of psychiatry at Stanford.
一位非常严肃的科学家和临床医生。
Very serious scientist clinician.
他和他父亲将催眠发展为一种用于疼痛管理、戒烟、焦虑，甚至化疗患者的工具。
His father and him developed hypnosis as a tool for pain management, smoking cessation, anxiety, even people going through chemotherapy.
数据非常出色。
And the data are beautiful.
这是一种大脑相关的方法，大约5%的人在一次催眠疗程后就能终身戒烟。
It's a brain It's 20 related 5% of people that do hypnosis for smoking cessation have it in one session for life.
太神奇了。
It's amazing.
我的意思是，这是一种大脑可塑性的加速器。
I mean, it's a brain plasticity accelerator.
但如果没有大卫，对吧？
But had it not been David, right?
他在进行这些讨论时非常细致，用科学的方式构建框架，解释正在发生的事情。
Who's very thoughtful in how he approaches these discussions, how he frames it with science, how he explains what's going on.
只是他，我不是说梅尔不是这样。
Just his And I'm not saying Mew isn't this way.
我不认识他，也没见过他，虽然我读过他的一些作品。
I don't know him, haven't met him, although I've read some of his work.
但大卫有一种特殊的天赋，能够将很多人认为是催眠的东西，
But David has a special gift of the ability to frame what for many people will be like hypnosis?
你在开玩笑吧？
Are you kidding me?
诠释为一种大脑可塑性的加速器。
As a brain plasticity accelerator.
大卫温和而有说服力的举止。
Gentle convincing demeanor in David.
是的。
Yes.
而且他还接受了精神病学及医学其他分支的广泛训练。
And also broad training in all of psychiatry and in acceptance of other branches of medicine.
他并没有说这是唯一的方法，这是唯一正确的途径，而且存在这个问题。
He's not saying this is the way, this is the only way, and there's this problem with
我有限的部落主义。
my Limited tribalism.
我来这里是为了改善这个领域。
I'm here to fix the field.
不。
No.
他说的是，这里只是工具箱中的一种工具，工具箱里还有其他工具。
He's he's saying here here's one tool in the toolkit, and there are other tools in the toolkit.
而且，再次强调，我在这里并没有对Mew有任何暗示。
He's also and again, I'm not saying anything about Mew in tacitly here.
大卫·斯皮格尔极其聪明。
David Spiegel is exceedingly smart.
他的智力水平完全在另一个层次，但他从不居高临下地对待任何人。
Like, he's he's on a whole other level of intellect, and yet he doesn't talk over anybody.
他非常友善。
He's extremely kind.
所以，你知道，医患沟通方式以及你如何呈现自己的观点非常重要。
So, you know, bedside manner and how you bring your stuff forward is very
关键。
key.
尤其是当你想要成为革命者，或处于这一领域前沿的人时。
Especially if you're going to be a revolutionary or somebody that's at the sort of cutting edge, cutting frontier of this stuff.
不。
No.
我同意。
I I I agree.
今年我一直在反复思考这个问题。
I am I've been thinking about this a lot this year.
我们需要了解哪些关于神经科学的内容，才能让习惯养成变得更简单？
What do we need to know about the neuroscience of making habit setting more easy?
我想象中一定有一些非常有趣的内容，天啊。
I imagine that there must be some really interesting Oh, man.
我刚在播客里采访了詹姆斯·克莱尔。
I just had James Clear on the podcast.
当你坐下来和这位‘习惯专家’交谈，并将他的观点与神经科学进行对比时，这非常有趣。
And it's so interesting when you sit down with somebody who's like the habits guy, and you compare it against the neuroscience.
因此，进入这个话题有两种方式。
And so there's sort of two ways into this.
詹姆斯在解释人们如何改善习惯、减少不良习惯方面做得非常出色。
And James has done a magnificent job of explaining things that people can do to improve their habits and reduce bad habits.
我之所以对人们理解这些行为清单背后的机制如此乐观，是因为我认为，当人们理解了机制，他们就能在所谓的‘协议’上拥有更大的灵活性。
The reason I'm so bullish about people understanding a little bit of mechanism behind the checklist of things to do is that I do think that when people understand mechanism, it gives them flexibility over the so called protocols.
我认为这还能让他们根据自身情况对这些方法进行定制。
And I think it also allows them to customize those things for themselves.
坦白说吧。
Let's face it.
如果你现在上网搜索‘我能做哪十件事来改善睡眠？’
If you want to go online now and just say, what are the top 10 things I can do to improve my sleep?
然后得到一份清单，把它贴在冰箱上或床边，为什么不是每个人都能照做呢？
And you get a list, put those on your refrigerator, put them next to your bed, why doesn't everyone just do that?
没错。
Yep.
因为人们获取信息的方式，强烈影响着他们是否能应用这些信息。
It's because the way that people go about learning information strongly drives whether or not they apply that information.
没错。
Yep.
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