111：解读斯泰西·西姆斯

因此筛选标准是：你必须自问，这个人是否有资格谈论这个话题？

So the filter is you have to ask yourself, is this person qualified to speak on this topic?

如果没有，他们是否自己主动声明过这种免责？

And if not, have they highlighted it themselves as a kind of disclaimer?

此外还要看：他们所说内容背后的证据是什么？

And then also, what is the evidence behind what they're saying?

他们是否告诉你信息来源？

Do they tell you where they get their information?

他们的论点是基于有力证据，还是只挑选支持其观点研究？

Are they drawing from strong evidence, or are they cherry picking studies that support their argument?

最后，他们的主张是否符合专家共识，还是完全出人意料？

And then finally, do their claims line up with expert consensus, or are they just completely coming out of left field?

是的。

Yeah.

所以你刚听到的第一个修辞策略就是诉诸权威。

So rhetorical strategy number one, which you just heard about, is appeal to authority.

接下来我们要讨论的是危言耸听。

The next one we're gonna talk about is fearmongering.

危言耸听是指说话者使用特定语言，让你觉得如果不采纳建议就会感到焦虑、不安全或处于风险中。

Fearmongering is when a speaker uses language designed to make you feel anxious, unsafe, or at risk if you don't take their advice.

它常表现为'如果你不做X，坏事就会发生'。

It often shows up as if you don't do x, this bad thing will happen to you.

有时会搭配听起来可怕的科学术语，对你的健康做出可怕预测。

Sometimes paired with scary sounding science terms are dire predictions about your health.

恐惧是强大的驱动力。

Fear is a powerful motivator.

我们天生就会自我保护。

We're wired to protect ourselves.

这非常引人注目。

It's very attention grabbing.

它促使你采取行动，因此在健康养生营销中特别有效。

It primes you to act, which is why it's such an effective rhetorical strategy, specifically in health and wellness marketing.

但恐惧也会扼杀批判性思维。

But fear also shuts down critical thinking.

它会让你觉得即使证据薄弱或矛盾，紧急行动仍是唯一选择。

It can make you feel like urgent action is the only option even if the evidence for that action is pretty weak or mixed.

所以当你听到类似'这会摧毁你的新陈代谢'、'四小时内甲状腺功能就会下降'、'做区域二有氧运动骨头会变得像粉笔一样脆'的说法时，这些都是危言耸听。

So when you hear phrases like this will tank your metabolism, your thyroid will downregulate in four hours, your bones will be like chalk if you do zone two cardio, this is fear mongering.

你现在要建立的过滤器是：暂停并询问——这个风险真实存在吗？

The filter here that you're building is to pause and ask, is this risk real?

这个风险有充分依据吗？

Is this well documented?

这个风险可能影响我吗？

Is this likely to affect me?

还是说这种风险被夸大了，目的是为了推销某种产品、方案或世界观？

Or is this being exaggerated to push me toward a product, a protocol, or a worldview.

这里还有个额外的危险信号。

And here's a bonus red flag.

每当有人说或让你觉得你过去所做的一切都是错的——尤其是在饮食锻炼这些被研究了几十年的大课题上——这就是个巨大的危险信号。

Anytime someone says or makes you feel like everything you've been doing is wrong, especially about huge topics like diet and exercise, which have been studied extensively for decades, this is a massive red flag.

这应该触发你大脑启动过滤机制，对这个人说的每句话都保持高度怀疑，因为重大主张需要重大证据。

It should signal to your brain to activate its filters and get very skeptical of everything this person is saying because big claims require big evidence.

好的。

Okay.

那么我们的第三种修辞策略叫做'绝对主义框架'。

So our third rhetorical strategy is something called absolutist framing.

绝对主义的框架不给细微差别、背景或个人偏好留任何余地，这正是它如此具有说服力的部分原因。

Now absolutist framing leaves no room for nuance, context, or individual preference, and that's partly why it's so persuasive.

它听起来自信且确定，能让人感到安心，因为它消除了不确定性。

It sounds confident and definitive, which can feel reassuring because it removes uncertainty.

但一旦你超越最基本的建议，比如避免营养缺乏所需的最低蛋白质摄入量或CDC推荐的每周150分钟有氧运动，人类的需求差异巨大。

But once you get past the most basic recommendations, like the minimum protein to avoid deficiency or the CDC's recommendation of a hundred and fifty minutes of weekly cardio, human needs vary widely.

目标、训练历史、饮食限制、医疗考虑、时间安排和偏好都会影响什么对某人最有利。

Goals, training history, dietary restrictions, medical considerations, schedule, and preferences all play a part in what is best for someone.

因此当有人为所有女性或所有老年人提供单一僵化的方案时，这就是一个危险信号。

So when someone offers a single rigid prescription for all women or for all older adults, that's a red flag.

它过度简化了非常多样化的人群及其需求。

It oversimplifies a very diverse group of people and their needs.

一个更基于证据的沟通者会为个体差异留出空间，秉持'视情况而定'的理念。

A more evidence based communicator will leave space for individual differences with this idea that it depends.

例如，围绝经期和绝经期女性必须进行大重量训练来增强力量并提高骨矿物质密度。

For example, perimenopausal women and menopausal women must lift heavy to build strength and improve bone mineral density.

与之形成对比的说法是：大重量训练是增强骨骼和力量的一种方式，但只要训练组数具有挑战性，轻中重量同样有效。

Contrast this with heavy lifting is one way to build bone and improve strength, but light and moderate weights can work as well as long as the sets are challenging.

因此，选择适合你的方式。

Therefore, choose the style that works for you.

对吧？

Right?

你看出区别了吗？

Do you see the difference?

绝对化的陈述会制造一种必须遵从的压力，让人一旦无法遵守每一条规则就觉得自己是失败者，而基于证据的陈述则为灵活性和选择留有余地，这也使得它们更加现实，坦白说，也更加负责任。

Like, absolutist statements create this pressure to comply and set people up to feel like failures if they can't follow every rule, whereas evidence based statements leave room for flexibility and for choice, and that's what makes them more realistic and, frankly, responsible.

好的。

Alright.

我们将带着过滤器来深入分析这些片段。

We are going to get into these clips with our filters on.

这次我们要重点听这三种修辞策略：诉诸权威、散布恐惧和绝对化框架。

And we're listening this time for these three rhetorical strategies, appeal to authority, fear mongering, and an absolutist framing.

非黑即白，必须这样。

Black and white, it must be this way.

饮料准备好了吗？

Got your beverage?

每次你的耳朵捕捉到其中一种策略时，就喝一口。

You're gonna take a sip every time your ears spot one of these tactics.

我们将从梅尔·罗宾斯播客中一段约两分半钟的片段开始。

We're gonna start with a two about two and a half minute clip from the Mel Robbins podcast.

这是节目的开头部分，梅尔正在介绍嘉宾和本集主题。

This is the very top of the show, and this is Mel introducing the guest and episode topic.

莎拉，你今天喝什么？

Sarah, what are you drinking today?

我是那种会同时喝多种饮品的人。

I'm the kind of person who has multiple drinks at the same time.

所以我准备了水、茶和早餐奶昔。

So I have water, I have tea, and I have my breakfast smoothie.

不错。

Nice.

你呢？

And you got?

我喝咖啡。

I've got coffee.

我那个大杯子里的咖啡有点凉了。

It's getting a little cold in my bulky mug.

不错。

Nice.

顺便给商品打了个小广告。

Little merch endorsement there.

我们会在节目备注里附上那个大杯子的链接。

We'll link that bulky mug in the show notes.

对。

Yes.

请务必加上。

Please do.

好的。

Okay.

现在开始播放梅尔·罗宾斯访谈的开场部分。

Here we go with Mel Robbins, opener to the Sims interview.

注意听其中是否有诉诸权威、制造恐慌和绝对化表述的情况。

You're listening for appeal to authority, fearmongering, and an absolutist framing.

好的。

Okay.

我要坦白一件事。

I have a confession.

我刚了解到一件事，几乎不好意思告诉你们——过去四十年里，我的锻炼方式全是错的。

I just learned I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this, that for the last forty years of my life, I've been exercising all wrong.

我敢打赌，你或你爱的人也犯过同样的错误。

And I bet you or someone that you love have too.

我想详细解释这件事，因为我刚和一位专家进行了对话——这位斯坦福教授拥有博士学位，主持过107项同行评审研究，她将揭示女性在营养和运动方面犯的所有错误。

And I just wanna break this down because the conversation that I just had with the expert that you're about to meet, who is on the faculty at Stanford, has a PhD, a 107 peer reviewed research studies, she is gonna break down all of the mistakes that women are making when it comes to nutrition and exercise.

说真的，这些发现会颠覆你的认知。

I mean, this is going to blow your mind.

听完她基于所有研究即将分享的内容后，作为一个女性，我感觉自己被健身房的伪科学和男性主导的健身行业欺骗了。

After learning everything that she's about to share with you based on all of her research, I as a woman, I feel like I've been gaslit by bro science and the male fitness industry.

千真万确。

For real.

毫不夸张地说，所有对男性有效的健身方式对女性都不适用。

Like literally, all of the things that I've been doing that work for guys don't work for women.

你们必须明白这一点。

And you need to understand this.

这是我两年前创办播客以来，最具人生转折意义的对话之一。

I mean, this is one of the most life changing conversations I have had since I started this podcast over two years ago.

从明天开始，我将彻底改变——因为我终于明白为什么我丈夫做某些运动后立刻就能见效。

Starting tomorrow, I am a different person because I understand why my husband can do certain things and next thing you know, he looks great.

我来做这些吗？

I do them?

不。

Nope.

你听过那句话吗，腹肌是厨房里练出来的？

And have you ever heard that saying, abs are made in the kitchen?

如果你是女性，这话就不成立。

That's not true if you're a woman.

所以如果你纳闷为什么全世界的有氧运动都不见效，为什么不间断的瑜伽和HIIT课程就是没效果——那是因为你在用男人的方式锻炼。

So if you're wondering why all the cardio in the world isn't working, why the nonstop yoga and HIIT classes are just not hitting, it's because you're exercising like a dude.

是时候清醒认识到，正如专家所说，女性不是缩小版的男人。

It's time that you wake up and realize, like our expert says, women are not small men.

女性的生理构造从根本上就不同。

Women have fundamentally different biology.

事实上，就连我们的肌肉结构都不一样。

In fact, even our muscular structure is different.

所以她将带我们逐一盘点那些被奉为圭臬却适得其反的做法。

And so she is gonna take you and me down the list of all the things that we have been told to do that are actually backfiring.

那个冷水浴，你和我都做错了。

That cold plunge, you and I are doing it wrong.

你用那些重量做的每组动作，都做错了。

The reps you're doing with all those weights, doing them wrong.

间歇性断食，可能并不适合你。

Intermittent fasting, probably not for you.

如果你像我一样曾经空腹锻炼，以后绝对不会再这样做了。

And if you, like me, have worked out on an empty stomach, you're never gonna do that again.

你将学会如何在更短时间和更少努力下取得更好效果，顺应而非对抗女性身体的特性。

You're about to learn how to get better results in less time and less effort, working with your female body, not against it.

是时候让你我以及你生活中的每位女性，开始按照女性真正需要的方式锻炼了。

It's time for you and me and every single woman in your life to start exercising like a woman needs to.

我不知道你们怎么样，反正我喝醉了。

I don't know about you, but I'm drunk.

我感觉水分很充足。

I'm feeling very hydrated.

有意思的是，在听这期节目之前我从未真正听过梅尔·罗宾斯的播客，所以对我来说她完全是新人。

I mean, the one thing that's really interesting I had never actually listened to the Mel Robbins podcast before I listened to this episode, so she's completely new to me.

她很...我不确定这是她每期节目对每位嘉宾都这样，

She's very I don't know if this is something she does in every episode with every person she interviews.

她非常具有传教热情。

She's so evangelical.

是啊。

Yeah.

她超级热情洋溢，而且特别会奉承人。

She's super evangelical, and she's super flattering.

她真的就像嘉宾的啦啦队长。

She really is like a hype girl for the guest.

没错。

Yes.

大问题，如果你在炒作本不该被炒作的事情，那就成问题了。

Big time, which is a problem if you're hyping something that it shouldn't be hyped.

这有点那种绝对主义框架策略的味道。

It's a little bit of that absolutist framing tactic.

全都是绝对主义框架。

It was all absolutist framing.

你做得不对。

You're doing it wrong.

这是错的。

This is wrong.

全错了。

Everything's wrong.

我听到她说'过去四十年我的锻炼方式全错了'那段时。

I the part where she says, for the last forty years of my life, I've been exercising all wrong.

我就觉得，这对你来说有点过了，实际上没那么夸张。

I'm like, that's a bit much for your that's not actually like, that's an actually an exaggeration.

斯泰西·西姆斯可没说过'你这辈子都做错了'这种话。

Stacy Sims is not coming on and saying you've been doing it all wrong for your

整个人生。

entire life.

我认为有必要澄清这些都是梅尔的原话。

I think it's it's important to clarify that these are Mel's words.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

所以她在这里为史黛西摇铃助威。

So she's out here just ringing the bell for Stacy.

就像你去大型演唱会时，歌手身后有一群伴舞——而她一个人就抵得上20个舞者，全力以赴地表演。

She's the when you go to a big concert and there's a team of dancers behind the singer, like, she's all 20 dancers just, like, going for it.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

她真的很卖力推销。

She really sells hard.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

我猜如果这是节目开头，她是想吸引人们来听这期节目。

I guess if this is the beginning of the episode, she's trying to get people to listen to the episode.

所以她必须大力宣传，没错。

So she has to hype it up a lot Yeah.

要让这听起来像是你需要阻止的事情。

To make it sound like something you need to stop it.

不过她没必要这么夸大其词。

She doesn't have to hype it up this much, though.

这是梅尔独有的策略。

This is a tactic unique to Mel.

她会大肆炒作，并且会用大量绝对化的表述来达成目的。

She is gonna hype it a lot, and she's gonna use a lot of absolutist framing to do it.

所以我想让我们先从权威诉求开始。

So I wanna let's start with the appeals to authority.

对。

Yeah.

你即将认识的这位专家是斯坦福大学教授，拥有博士学位，发表了107篇同行评审研究。

The expert that you're about to meet on the faculty at Stanford, PhD, 107 peer reviewed studies.

这些关于史黛西·西姆斯的描述都属实，但作为听众，你会觉得她将是你即将学习的领域中非常重要且知识渊博的权威。

These are all true about Stacy Sims, but you could see how as a listener, this would really strike you as being a very important, knowledgeable authority on a topic they're about to learn about.

所以专家身份、斯坦福教授、博士学位、107篇同行评审研究。

So expert, faculty at Stanford, PhD, a 107 peer reviewed research studies.

听到这些描述很容易让人认为：这位女士只会陈述事实。

It's easy to hear those words and go, this woman is only gonna deliver the facts.

问题是拥有资历本身并不是坏事。

And the thing is it's not bad to have credentials.

确实有很多具备这类资历的人最终只是陈述事实，但同样重要的是要明白这并不自动意味着结果就会如此。

Like, plenty of people with all these kinds of credentials do go on to just present the facts, but it's also important to know that it doesn't automatically mean that's what's gonna happen.

那些危言耸听的说法呢？

What about the fear mongering?

你听到那些话了吗？

Did you hear any of that?

天啊。

Oh my god.

我的锻炼方式全错了。

I've been exercising all wrong.

女性在营养摄入方面常犯错误。

Women are making mistakes when it comes to nutrition.

你的冷水浴方法不对。

You're doing the cold plunge wrong.

你做的重复次数太多了。

The you're doing too many reps.

你应该停止间歇性断食。

You should stop intermittent fasting.

不要空腹锻炼。

Don't work out on empty stomach.

你以后千万别再那样做了。

You're don't ever do that again.

这简直太可怕了。

It's just it's terrifying.

我...我简直要喊出'天啊'。

I I'm like, oh my god.

我这一生都活错了方向。

I've been living my life completely incorrectly this entire time.

是啊。

Yeah.

她说你一直用错误的方式锻炼，我敢打赌你或你爱的人现在必须承担起拯救所爱之人的责任。

She's you're you've been exercising all wrong, and I bet you or someone that you love has to it's like now your responsibility to save your loved one.

所有人都在堕落。

Everyone's going down.

那绝对框架怎么说？

What about absolute as framing?

天啊。

Oh god.

我发现所有对男人有效的方法对女人都不管用。

This whole thing of all of the things I've been doing that work for guys don't work for women.

对。

Right.

其实根本不是这样。

Which is actually just not true.

确实是。

Is yeah.

真的，字面意义上的所有事。

Really, literally everything.

让我困惑的是她说：如果你想知道为什么做遍所有有氧运动都没效果，为什么不间断的瑜伽和HIIT课程就是不见效——因为你像男人一样锻炼。

Where I got confused is when she was like, so if you're wondering why all the cardio in the world isn't working, why the nonstop yoga and HIIT classes are just not hitting, it's because you're exercising like a dude.

我当时就想，等等。

And I was like, wait.

所以现在男生们都开始不停地上瑜伽和HIIT课程了吗？

So are dudes doing nonstop yoga and HIIT classes now?

因为我以为

Because I thought

我不记得在我的瑜伽课甚至HIIT课上看到过很多男生。

I don't I don't remember seeing a ton of dudes in my yoga class or even in a HIIT class.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

我是说，这是不是普遍认为

I mean, is that like the prevailing belief that

我不知道。

I don't know.

这就是男性的运动方式，所以女性必须停止？我现在很困惑，因为我原本确实以为是这样。

That's that's what men's exercise is and that's why that's what women have to stop because I'm confused now because I actually thought that yeah.

我觉得当我们告诉女性要以'女性普遍的方式'运动时，就开始出问题了。

I I think I think we start to run into problems when we tell women to exercise like women in general.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得当我们告诉人们要以'女性或男性的方式'运动时，就会出问题。

I think we'd run into problems when we tell people to exercise like women or men.

我们为什么非得正确不可。

Why do we have to Right.

大体上这是基础，本质上都一样。

It's basic for the most part, it's really the same.

是啊。

Yeah.

你的需求也相同。

Your needs are the same.

另外要说明，这不是我们让你喝酒的修辞策略，但我觉得梅尔·罗宾斯提出的'未来预演'概念特别值得一听。

Another thing, this isn't a rhetorical strategy that we're having you drink to, but I think it's something worth listening to from Mel Robbins specifically where she'll do what's called future pacing.

未来预演是种说服技巧，演讲者会让你想象某个理想化的未来结果。

So future pacing is a persuasive tactic where the speaker wants you to imagine a specific desirable future outcome.

这在自助类话术中非常常见。

It's really common in self help languaging.

通常这个理想未来会实现——只要你立即采取行动，并且是按照他们建议的方式行动。

And it's usually one that results, like, this future desirable outcome when you take action now and you take the action that they're recommending.

这招确实有效。

And it works.

它能成为说服策略是因为激活了我们的想象力。

It's a persuasive tactic because it activates our imagination.

它会让我们对这个渴望的成果产生情感共鸣和向往——尤其是对比梅尔·罗宾斯经常描绘的、我们身处其中的糟糕现实时。

It makes us feel, like, emotional and aspirational about, like, this outcome that we really want compared to the reality we find ourselves in, which Mel Robbins will often also paint our reality as being really bad.

对吧？

Right?

比如，你现在的锻炼方式完全不对。

Like, the way you've been exercising is all wrong.

而且你会经常听到她这种情绪升级和夸张的表达方式，把当下发生在你身上的事情描绘成错误的。

And you're gonna hear hear this level of emotional escalation and exaggeration from her a lot in a way that paints, like, what's going on right now with you is wrong.

太错了。

So wrong.

如果你现在紧急采纳这个建议，就能迈向这个更具吸引力、更理想的未来。

And if you take this advice now with urgency, you're gonna step into this much more appealing, idealistic future.

这叫做未来引导。

It's called future pacing.

于是她说：从明天开始，我就是个全新的人了。

So she goes, starting tomorrow, I'm a different person.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

这感觉也很像那本大概十到十五年前超级流行的书，基本上就是说只要你能想象出来，它就会成真。

It also feels a lot like what was that book that was super popular maybe ten, fifteen years ago that was basically like, if you can imagine it, it'll come true.

所以你只需要想象这个完美未来，它就会自动实现。

And so you were just supposed to visualize this perfect future and it would just show up.

我就想，我希望能想象一个自己醒来变成拥有咖啡机的女人的世界。

And I don't I'm like, I would like to imagine a world where I wake up as a woman with an espresso machine.

比如，如果我持续想象那个世界，从明天开始，我就会变成...

Like, I if I just keep imagining that world, starting tomorrow, am I a

那个拥有意式咖啡机的女人？

woman who wakes up with an espresso machine?

你应该渴望拥有一台意式咖啡机，因为这象征着富裕。

You should want to have an espresso machine because that signifies affluence.

对吧？

Right?

我们的第四个策略——虽然没提前告知你会有更多策略，但总共会有五个策略。

Our fourth tactic, which we have not told you there would be more tactics, but there are gonna be a total of five tactics.

这个策略叫做'伪女权主义道德表演'。

This one is called pseudo feminist virtue signaling.

我认为这是个值得留意的现象，特别是当我们研究更年期相关的骗局、错误信息和伪科学传播时。

I think it's a good one to listen for, especially when we're looking at grift, misinformation, pseudoscience spreading around menopause.

明白吗？

Okay?

那么莎拉，你在这段视频里听到任何伪女权主义道德表演吗？

So, Sarah, did you hear any pseudo feminist virtue signaling in this clip?

天呐。

Good lord.

是的。

Yeah.

我们先来定义一下这个术语。

Let's define what we mean by that.

女权主义的核心在于挑战和瓦解那些延续性别不平等的权力体系、歧视行为和文化规范。

So feminism, at its core, seeks to challenge and dismantle systems of power, discrimination, and cultural norms that perpetuate gender inequality.

伪女权主义可以理解为利用女权主义的语言、形象或道德权威，但实际上并未以有意义的方式促进女性平等或自由的行为。

Pseudofeminism can be thought of as something that uses the language, imagery, or moral authority of feminism but doesn't actually advance women's equality or freedom in a meaningful way.

美德信号是指公开展示自己的道德立场、价值观或承诺，主要目的不是为了促成实际改变，而是为了被视作有道德的人。

Virtue signaling is the act of publicly displaying your moral stance, values, or commitments, not necessarily to create real change, but primarily to be seen as virtuous.

换句话说，这种行为更注重被认可为持有正确观点或关心正确事业的人，而非真正解决问题。

In other words, it's less about making a meaningful difference to a problem and more about being recognized as someone who has the right views or cares about the right causes.

越是深入剖析西姆斯的主张，就越能发现这些主张实际上对女性毫无益处，却经常被包装成女权主义的样子。

The more you start unpacking claims Sims makes, the more you might start to see how they aren't actually good for women at all, but they're frequently championed in that way.

仔细推敲就会发现，她的许多主张对女性不利，因为它们缺乏坚实的证据基础。

And when you drill down, a lot of her claims aren't good for women because they aren't strongly evidence based.

这些主张过于教条和僵化，因此难以被广泛接受。

They're overly prescriptive and rigid and therefore less accessible.

它们还经常围绕体重增加和外表等问题制造恐慌。

They're also often frequently fearmongery around things like weight gain and appearance.

营销策略常常针对人们的不安全感做文章。

Insecurities, marketing strategies frequently target.

因此我们认为，西姆斯的建议非但没有帮助，反而制造了大量困惑、恐惧和更多需要遵守的规则，让女性觉得自己总是做错事。

So instead of helping, we feel Sims advice often serves to create a lot of confusion, fear, and just more rules to follow, rules that we think make women feel like they're constantly doing it wrong.

她们在运动和营养方面总是做错。

They're doing exercise and nutrition wrong.

这些对女性实际上毫无益处。

And none of this is actually good for women.

这对女性有害，却被包装成女权主义。

It's bad for women, but it's dressed up as feminist.

伪女权主义披着女性赋权的外衣，结果却让女性的生活更加艰难。

Pseudofeminism wears the costume of women's empowerment but ends up making women's lives harder.

我们称之为美德信号，因为其目的是为了获取我们的信任。

And we call it virtue signaling because its purpose is to earn our trust.

西姆斯和罗宾斯自诩为女性权益的捍卫者。

Sims and Robbins present themselves as champions of women.

他们终于向我们揭露真相，并反击那些伪科学言论。

They're finally telling us the truth and fighting back against bro science.

但实际上，通过这种说辞，他们正将我们更深地拖入其影响力生态系统中。

But what is actually happening is that through this rhetoric, they're pulling us deeper into their ecosystem of influence.

最具讽刺意味的是，其中一个核心信息是'要像女人一样锻炼，而不是像男人'。

And the grand irony, one of the main messages is to exercise like a woman, not a man.

但我们之前在哪里听过'要像女人一样锻炼'这种建议？

But where have we heard this advice to exercise like a woman?

或者'要像女人一样做事'，莎拉？

Or do anything like a woman before, Sarah?

哦，天哪。

Oh, man.

有人想要粉色哑铃吗？

Pink dumbbells, anyone?

还记得不久前推出的那款女性专用笔吗？

How about that pen for women that came out a little while ago?

还是坚持练瑜伽吧。

Stick to yoga.

它会让你青春永驻。

It'll make you ageless.

而普拉提会让你变得修长苗条？

And Pilates is gonna make you long and lean?

是的。

Yeah.

普拉提让人修长苗条。

Pilates long and lean.

回答身体。

Answer body.

对。

Yeah.

如果你再听一遍前面的片段，可能会听到大量女权主义的道德表演。

So if you listen again to the previous clip, you will probably hear a ton of feminist virtue signaling.

我们现在要转到梅尔·罗宾斯播客的另一个片段，你可能会听到更多类似内容。

We're gonna go on to another clip right now from the Mel Robbins podcast where you will probably hear some more.

在这个片段中，你要留意那些伪女权主义的道德表演。

So for this clip, you are listening for pseudo feminist virtue signaling.

我当时在讲授训练或高强度表现中的性别差异。

And I was teaching about sex differences in training or high performance.

所以我开场会说'女性不是缩小版的男人'。

So I would start it with women are not small men.

人们就会说'当然不是'。

And people are like, well, of course not.

就是说，女性并非缩小版的男性。

Like, that's you know, women aren't small men.

我的意思是，从子宫内发育到生命终结，女性与男性的生理机制完全不同。

But what I mean by that is everything from what happens in utero until we die is different for women than men.

当我们说'女性不是缩小版男性'时，所有关于运动的指南、心理健康的建议、社会文化压力下的连接方式——女性与男性的体验都截然不同，但这些差异从未被真正阐明。

So when we talk about women are not small men, and we see all the guidelines that are out there for exercise, all the guidelines out there for mental health, for the connections, the sociocultural pressures, we experience things differently as women than men do, but that's not ever really explained.

所以当我们说'女性不是缩小版男性'时，会让人停下来思考：你具体指什么？

So when we say women are not small men, it makes people take that pause and ask, well, what do you mean by that?

哪个方面？

What topic?

今天我要探讨的是运动领域——特别是女性在不同人生阶段应该如何调整运动方式。

So today, what I mean by women are not small men is we're gonna dive into exercise, especially how what we do should change as we move through our lives.

这句'女性不是缩小版男性'的格言在实际中

What does that motto women are not small men mean in

意味着什么？

practice?

当我们观察社交媒体上的健身潮流、医疗趋势时...嗯哼...

I think when we look right now at what's being portrayed in social media, the fitness trends, the medical trends Uh-huh.

所有这些数据都源自男性研究，却简单套用在女性身上，这是极大的不公。

All of that data is really drawn from men and just generalized to women, which is a huge disservice.

因此我希望女性听众们，每当看到新潮流或推销时，先停下来思考：这个建议最初是为谁设计的？

So I want women, especially you as a listener on this podcast, to take a pause whenever you see a new trend come up or someone pushing something to just go, well, where does this originate?

它是否适合我这个年龄阶段的女性？

How does it appropriate for me as a woman in my phase of life?

当你停下来思考时，就会开始对强加于你的事物产生异议，并客观看待如何让事情对你有利。

And when you take that pause, you begin to have an objection to some of the things that are being pushed on you and an objective view of how you should approach things to make it beneficial for you.

那节课上有假女权主义的道德表演吗？

Any pseudo feminist virtue signaling in that class?

基本上整件事都是。

Basically, the entire thing.

对吧？

Right?

这套女性运动完全基于男性标准，我们需要找出真正对女性有益的东西。

It's this whole women's exercise is completely based on men, and we need to figure out what's good for women.

而且从来没人研究过女性。

And there's been no research on women.

这

Which

不是事实。

is not true.

不是事实。

Not true.

关于男性的研究确实多得多，但也有关于女性的研究。

There's a lot more on men, but there is research on women.

是的。

Yeah.

我们会在节目说明里放个链接，是今天刚看到的卡伦索·森普尔医生的视频片段，她明确指出虽然大家都承认女性研究不足，但并非完全没有相关研究。

We'll link in the show notes a clip that I just saw today from doctor Calenso Semple where she outlines the fact that no one's disagreeing that there's a lack of research on women, but there isn't no research on women.

当面临选择时，是采用机械模型、啮齿动物数据（Sims主要依赖这两者来支持她的主张），还是基于男性的研究。

And when given a choice between drawing from mechanistic models, rodent data, both of which Sims leans heavily on for her claims, and research done on men.

三者中最可靠的是基于男性的研究。

The best of the three is the research done on men.

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说。

For me.

而且我们也没有任何关于女性的研究。

And we don't have no research on women either.

这太夸张了。

That's hyperbolic.

这种夸张说法就是为了激起你的愤怒。

And it's an exaggeration designed to make you feel outraged.

这不是事实。

It's not true.

这不是事实。

It's not true.

讽刺的是，我们正在做的恰恰是Sims要求我们做的事。

And ironically, we're actually doing exactly what Sims is asking us to do.

我们正在暂停，并质疑她向我们女性群体推荐的内容是否合适或真实。

We are taking a pause, and we're asking how what she is recommending to us, right, the women she's advising, whether it's appropriate or true.

我必须说，我们确实已经开始对她强推的一些观点提出异议了。

And I gotta say we've certainly started to have some objections to some of the things that are being pushed on us.

好的。

Okay.

接下来，我们将播放梅尔·罗宾斯的另一段剪辑，她通过指出大多数她所说的内容来设定对话的前提。

So next, we're gonna have another clip from Mel Robbins where she sets up the premise of the conversation by pointing out that most she says all.

她经常将夸张和情绪升级作为一种策略。

She very frequently uses exaggeration and emotional escalation as a strategy.

因此，历史上大多数关于运动、营养和健康的研究都是在男性身上进行的。

So most of the research on exercise, nutrition, and health has historically been done on men.

她认为，正因为如此，我们并不完全了解这些实践如何影响女性，因为她们的激素、生理和身体构成都不同。

And because of that, she argues, we don't fully understand how these practices affect women whose hormones, physiology, and body composition are different.

她将这一集节目构建为一个逐步的过程，旨在揭穿人们基于男性数据所做的假设，并教会女性如何真正与自己的身体合作而非对抗。

And she frames the episode as a step by step process to debunk the assumptions people have made based on male data and to teach women what they really need to do to work with their bodies instead of against them.

这会让听众预期她们之前的做法是错误的，而这次对话将揭示一条专为女性设计的新路径。

So this primes the listeners to expect that what they've been doing is wrong and that this conversation will reveal a new female specific way forward.

因此，在接下来的剪辑中，我们将留意恐惧煽动、绝对化框架以及伪女权主义的道德标榜。

So we're gonna be listening for fear mongering, absolutist framing, and that's pseudo feminist virtue signaling in this next clip.

那么，女性在遵循以男性为中心的健身建议时，最常见的错误是什么？

So what's the most common mistake that women make by following male centric fitness advice?

她们没有得到任何效果，最终陷入我们所说的

They don't get any results, and they end up what we

“疲惫但亢奋”的状态。

call tired, but wired.

我的意思是，如果你观察大多数坚持早起锻炼的女性，常常在遵循与男性伴侣相同的训练计划四周后，男性伴侣变得更精瘦、更健康、认知能力更好，比如专注力等所有你期望从健身中获得的效果。

I mean, if you look at most women who make a point to get up, do some training, go exercise, and it happens so often after four weeks of following the same kind of training program as their male partner, their male partner has gotten leaner, fitter, better cognition, you know, focus, all of the things that you want out of fitness.

那位女士说，为什么我变得更胖更累，却没有像我伴侣那样在健身上有所进步？

And the woman's like, how come I'm fatter and tired and I don't have any like increase in my fitness like my partner does?

我经常看到这种情况，总是要解释，首先，你的伴侣可能会起床去做空腹训练。

And I see it all the time, and I'm always explaining, well, one, your partner might get up and go, facet training.

女性的身体对空腹训练反应不佳。

Women's bodies don't respond well to facet training.

什么是空腹训练？

What's fast training?

我甚至不知道

I don't even know what the

这到底是什么。

heck this is.

比如，什么是训练？

Like, what's training?

空腹训练意味着你在运动前不进食。

Fast training means you're not having any food before you go do exercise.

哦，所以我以前总是这样做。

Oh, so that's what I would always do.

是的。

Yeah.

就像我总是想着运动完再吃。

Like I would always literally like I'm gonna eat after.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我丈夫总是事后才吃。

Because my husband would eat after.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

然后我们就...我简直惊掉下巴。

And then we would my mouth is on the floor.

你可以在YouTube上看到这个，但就像你正在听的那样。

You can see this on YouTube, but it's like as you're listening.

我正在消化这个信息，因为我在想我经常对克里斯——我丈夫——发火。

I'm I'm processing this because I'm thinking how often I've been pissed off at Chris, my husband.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为我们会一起面对某些挑战，而我就觉得这不公平。

Because we will take on some challenge together, and I'm like this is not fair.

没错。

Yeah.

比如为什么这反而让你瘦了，而我却感觉更臃肿、更疲惫、更恼火。

Like how is it that this is actually making you lose weight, and I feel like I'm puffier and fluffier and tired and pissed off.

对。

Yep.

而且我遵循的是同样的步骤。

And I'm following the same steps.

我也在做间歇性断食。

I'm doing the intermittent fasting.

我不提前吃东西。

I'm not eating beforehand.

我之后会猛砸那东西。

I'm slamming the thing after.

我正在做这件事。

I'm doing it.

我就想，这到底是怎么回事？

And I'm like, what the hell is going on?

而这仅仅因为他是男性而我是女性。

And it this is because he's male and I'm female.

没错。

Yep.

正是如此。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

你喝酒了吗？

Have you been drinking?

我得说。

I gotta say.

你先来。

You go first.

我一生中尝试过多种不同的锻炼方式。

I have exercised in lots of different ways throughout my life.

我人生中有过一段时期疯狂做有氧运动。

There's been periods in my life where I did a ton of cardio.

我人生中有过一段时期经常练瑜伽。

There's been periods in my life where I did a lot of yoga.

最近几年我更侧重力量训练，后来迷上了举重杠铃。

There's been more recently periods where I did more strength training, and then I got into heavy barbells.

不得不说，无论我做哪种运动，从没有练完反而觉得更臃肿、更松软、更胖的情况。

I gotta say, no matter what type of exercise that I was doing, I never came away feeling puffier and fluffier and fatter.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像Fearmonger（散播恐惧者）

Like Fearmonger

吃午饭时？

at lunch?

我觉得不会发生这种事。

I don't think that happens.

我...我觉得不会发生这种事。

I I don't think that happens.

这是我的看法。

That's my opinion.

但我知道运动不是减肥的最佳方式。

But I know that exercise is not the best way to lose weight.

对吧？

Right?

我们知道，嗯。

We know that Mhmm.

减肥。

Weight loss.

对吧？

Right?

因为她说自己变胖了。

Because she's saying she she's fatter.

减肥就是热量摄入与消耗的平衡。

Weight loss is calories in, calories out.

这季节目我们已经多次讨论过这个话题。

And we've talked about that a lot this season.

特别是对于经历更年期的女性来说，这个原理依然成立。

And in particular, it's still true for women going through menopause.

并不是说荷尔蒙变化会突然让你无法减肥。

It's not like this hormonal shift suddenly makes it impossible to lose weight.

我不知道这里发生了什么。

I don't know what's going on here.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为他们是在利用女性已有的不安全感——那些不明白自己为何发胖的女性。

I think that they are playing into insecurities that already exist with women who feel that they don't understand why they're putting on weight.

没错。

Yeah.

而且

And

是啊。

Yeah.

他们给出的整体解决方案就是：你需要像女性那样锻炼，而不是像男性那样。

Their whole solution to that is that you need to exercise like a woman and stop exercising like a man.

我觉得最讽刺的是，大多数人根本就没在锻炼。

What I find so ironic about all of this is that most people aren't exercising at all.

因此，他们只是堆砌了大量令人困惑、过度复杂且危言耸听的信息。

Hence, they're just layering on a ton of confusing, overly complicated, and fearmongery messaging.

没错。

Yeah.

如果我之前还不确定自己在做什么，现在肯定更糊涂了

If I didn't know what I was doing before, I sure don't know

了。

now.

正是如此。

Exactly.

力量训练和冲击训练是提高骨密度、降低骨质疏松风险最有效的两种方式。

Strength and impact training are two of the most effective ways we have to improve bone density and reduce osteoporosis risk.

我们为期六个月的在线直播课程《长寿生活》将两者结合了起来。

Our six month live online course, Live for Longevity, combines both.

我们使用杠铃进行渐进式力量训练，涵盖所有强度等级，并循序渐进地教授冲击训练，根据个人身体需求提供不同选择。

We use barbells to train progressive strength through all intensity levels, and we teach a progressive introduction to impact training with options for what your body needs.

通过Lift for Longevity项目，您将获得一套全身训练方案，这不仅仅是走过场，而是真正教会您如何进行力量训练，从而掌握一项终身受益的新技能。

With Lift for Longevity, you get a whole body program that doesn't just go through the motions, but actually teaches you how to strength train so that you gain a new skill for life.

已有200多位30至80岁的女性参加了该课程，在舒适的家中就能增强力量、建立信心并提升韧性。

Over 200 women in their thirties to eighties have already taken the course, building strength, confidence, and resilience within the comfort of their homes.

想试试吗？

Wanna try it out?

10月17日东部时间上午11点/太平洋时间上午8点，加入我们免费体验该项目的示范训练课程。

Join us on October 17 at 11AM eastern, 8AM Pacific for a free sample workout from the program.

如果您已有杠铃，请带上它。

If you already have a barbell, bring it along.

如果没有，请带上您的配重和一根木棍或扫帚柄。

If not, bring your weights and a dowel or broomstick.

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You'll get live coaching and technique feedback if you'd like, or keep your camera off if you prefer.

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Can't make it live?

我们会发送回放视频给您。

We'll send you the replay.

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Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

关于危言耸听，她会说些诸如'当女性错误遵循以男性为中心的健身建议时会怎样？'之类的话。

So for fear mongering, she'll say stuff like, what happens when women make the mistake of following male centric fitness advice?

我是在转述。

I'm paraphrasing.

然后她说，他们根本看不到效果。

And she goes, they don't get any results.

首先，他们从未明确界定什么是‘以男性为中心的健身建议’。

First of all, they have never defined what they mean by male centric fitness advice.

如果我们根据节目开头的介绍来看，这更像是针对瑜伽的抨击。

If we go based on the intro at the top of the show, it's hit in yoga.

这完全是伪女权主义的道德表演。

There's pseudo feminist virtue signaling.

他们只是在说‘男性不好’。

They're just saying male bad.

我那愚蠢的丈夫，他反而取得了所有成效。

My stupid husband, he gets all the results.

女性好。

Female good.

所以如果我们知道什么是男性中心的健身建议并照做，就会毫无效果。

So if we knew what male centric fitness advice was and we followed it, we would get no results.

而且，如果我们知道她所说的效果具体指什么——是指减重吗？

And, also, if we knew what kind of results she's talking about, is she talking about weight loss?

她是在说这非常令人沮丧吗？

Is she talking about it's very frustrating.

另外，运动并非减重的最佳方式。

And, also, exercise is not the best way to lose weight.

似乎这场讨论的焦点很大程度上都集中在减重这个话题上。

Like, the focus of a lot of this conversation seems to be about weight loss in particular.

但几乎没人提到，我是说，这段视频里没提到，你可能因为吃得更多而感到臃肿膨胀。

But there's very little mention of, I mean, in this clip, there's no mention of maybe you felt fluffier and puffier because you were eating more.

你当时并不处于热量赤字状态。

You were not in a calorie deficit.

没错。

Exactly.

这种所谓'疲惫又亢奋'的整个概念。

This whole idea of, like, tired and wired.

抱歉。

I'm sorry.

你最近看过外面的情况吗？

Have you seen outside lately?

我觉得我们都有点'疲惫又亢奋'，毕竟现在是2025年了。

Like, I think we're all living a little tired and wired just because it's 2025.

这不是因为我们都在像男人一样锻炼。

It's not because we're all exercising like men.

正是。

Exactly.

完全正确。

Exactly.

这种伪女权主义的道德表演，就是她说什么和丈夫一起锻炼，他获得所有效果，她做同样的事却毫无收获，你懂吗？

This whole idea of pseudo feminist virtue signaling is her talking about how she works out with her husband and he gets all the results and she's doing all the same thing as him and she doesn't get the results and you know?

这他妈算什么？就因为他是男的我是女的？

What the hell is this because he's male and I'm female?

西姆斯毫不犹豫地回答道，是的。

And without pausing for a moment, Sims goes, yes.

正是如此。

Exactly.

这就是原因。

That's why.

没错。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

就像，你锻炼的方式是错的，因为你在做男性的运动。

Like, it's the way you're exercising is wrong because you're doing men's exercise.

就像我们之前使用男性钢笔，而我们需要女性钢笔一样。

The same way we were previously using men's pens, and we needed a woman's pen.

这种挑拨伴侣对立的行为，或许这对夫妻的相处模式中还存在其他问题。

This whole pitting people against their partner, Maybe there are other things going on in the couple's dynamic.

比如，女性往往比男性做更多家务，承担大部分育儿责任。

Like, women tend to do more housework than men, that women tend to do the bulk of the child rearing.

情感包袱。

The emotional baggage.

所以他们是否可能在利用家庭关系中的这种模式，然后悄悄灌输你之所以有这种感觉是因为你在像男人一样锻炼？

And so are they maybe using that dynamic in a domestic relationship to then slide in there that actually why you're feeling this way is because you're exercising like a man?

这招真狡猾。

It's real slick.

确实如此。

It really is.

克里斯·洛克有个老笑话，讲的是听药物列出的所有副作用。

There was this old Chris Rock joke about listening to all the side effects of of a medication.

对吧？

Right?

而你只是在听那些听起来像你的症状。

And you're just listening for the thing that sounds like you.

他们总是列出那么多症状，最后你会觉得，哦，没错。

They will always list so many things that eventually you're like, oh, yeah.

那就是我。

That's me.

然后他们会说些类似的话，比如你早上醒来晚上睡觉吗？

And so he's they'll say something like, do you wake up in the morning and go to bed at night?

然后你会想，天哪。

And you're like, oh my god.

那就是我。

That's me.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像这样。

It's like this.

你是不是很累？

It's are you tired?

是的。

Yes.

你很兴奋？

You're wired?

当然。

Sure.

你感觉浮肿吗？

Do you feel puffy?

有时候。

Sometimes.

所有这些现象可能有无数种原因。

All of those things could be for any number of reasons.

而他们却说是因为你在锻炼。

And they're saying it's because you exercise.

对吧？

Right?

因为你的锻炼方式。

Because of how you're exercising.

是啊。

Yeah.

大多数听众根本不锻炼。

Most people listening don't exercise.

锻炼。

Exercising.

确实如此。

Exactly.

好的。

Alright.

我还想谈谈关于女性空腹训练时增肌效果较差的说法。

So I also wanna talk about this claim about women not putting on as much muscle when they train fasted.

这种说法站不住脚。

This claim does not hold water.

对进食和空腹状态下的女性群体进行的肌肉量测试显示，结果基本一致。

Muscle mass has been tested in fed female populations and fasted female populations, and it's basically the same.

这正是Colenso Semple医生在'举重医生'辩论中特别质疑Sims的领域。

And this is an area that doctor Colenso Semple specifically challenged Sims on in their debate on docs who lift.

Sims声称她遵循证据，并有研究表明空腹训练对女性不利，但这些研究很可能只是个案报告或预试验，而非我们金标准的随机对照试验。

Sims says that she's following the evidence and that she has studies that show that fasted training is not good for women, but these studies are likely case studies or pilot studies, not our gold standard RCTs.

她还提到一个与她合作的案例，该案例对象转为进食训练后立即见效。

And she also speaks of a case study of someone she's working with who switched to fed training and saw immediate results.

在'举重医生'辩论中，Lauren反驳说Sims是在用短期数据推测长期情况或潜在病理结果，本质上缺乏足够证据支撑她经常做出的绝对论断，且向公众发布这种笼统结论并不恰当。

And in their debate on docs who lift, Lauren counters that she's taking acute data and hypothesizing about chronic situations or potential pathology outcomes, in essence, that there is not sufficient evidence to make these all or nothing statements that she often makes and that it's not appropriate to make these sweeping statements to the public.

总结来说，现实中女性需要的不是伪女权主义的道德表演或愤怒宣泄。

So to summarize, in reality, women don't need pseudo feminist virtue signaling or outrage.

她们需要的是基于明确证据的指导，这些指导能降低运动门槛、简化营养摄入，并让女性感到强大而非脆弱。

What they need is clear evidence based guidance that lowers barriers to exercise, makes nutrition simpler, and leaves women feeling capable rather than fragile.

是的。

Yes.

我们需要更多关于女性的研究，但同时又不需要。

We need more research on women, but also, no.

我们不需要你撒谎说没有关于女性的研究，这样你就能用基于更薄弱证据的废话信息来糊弄我们，而忽视我们已有的、真正针对女性进行的更有力证据。

We don't need you to lie and say there's no research on women so that you can feed us a lot of bullshit information based on much weaker evidence in favor of the much stronger evidence that we have that was actually done on women.

这种非此即彼的男女对立方式基本上只是在为史黛西·西姆斯的利益服务，但对女性整体并无益处。

This all or nothing women versus men approach basically serves Stacy Sims' bottom line, but it doesn't serve women generally.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为如果她采用女权主义的方式，就会努力让运动变得非常清晰、简单且易于参与。

Because if she were taking a feminist approach, she would try to make exercise very clear and simple and accessible.

没错。

Yes.

她也不会告诉我需要喝酸樱桃汁、吃紫土豆——对大多数人来说这种建议简直可笑。

She also wouldn't be telling me that I need to drink tart cherry juice and eat purple potatoes when the reality of that for the vast majority of people is laughable.

对啊。

Yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

接下来我们要听一段Huberman Lab播客的样片。

Next, we're gonna listen to a sample clip from the Huberman Lab podcast.

你们要注意听之前提到的那些话术，同时注意她在Huberman播客里的修辞方式与她在Mel Robbins播客里用的截然不同。

You're gonna listen for the aforementioned tactics and also listen for how her rhetorical approach on Huberman is very different than the one she employs on the Mel Robbins podcast.

她很精明。

She's savvy.

她知道Huberman的听众和Robin的不是同一群人。

She knows that Huberman's audience is not Robin's.

是啊。

Yeah.

女权主义的道德表演变得安静多了。

The feminist virtue signaling becomes much quieter.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

也很可能每位主持人仅仅通过与她互动的方式，就会从她身上激发出不同的策略。

It's also likely that each host pulls a different strategy out of her just by the nature of how they engage with her.

是啊。

Yeah.

在我看来，Huberman是个对优化近乎痴迷到成瘾的人。

Huberman, to me, is someone who's obsessed almost to an addiction with optimization.

所以他似乎很多提问都是围绕'什么是最好的？'

And so it seems like a lot of his questioning of her was about, like, what's the best?

什么是最好的？

What's the best?

日常应该怎么做？

What's the routine?

具体步骤是什么？

What's the protocol?

我们都需要做些什么？

What do we all need to be doing?

这很大程度上就是，嗯，好吧。

It was very much about, like, okay.

把信息告诉我。

Give me the information.

百分之百。

A 100%.

好的。

Okay.

接下来这段视频中，Huberman向Sims询问了关于间歇性断食的问题。

So for a little context in this next clip, Huberman asks Sims about intermittent fasting.

间歇性断食是一种饮食模式，在进食期和禁食期之间循环。

Intermittent fasting is an eating pattern that cycles between periods of eating and periods of not eating, fasting.

它并不规定你该吃什么。

It doesn't tell you what to eat.