#161 与迈克尔·塞勒的对谈——为何迈克尔·塞勒认为比特币是希望

你必须集中注意力。

You you have to focus.

你有责任在身。

You have responsibilities.

好的。

Okay.

你之前提到过一点，就是，好吧。

And you were you were talking about at one point, you're like, alright.

我在出售这个域名的时候，你是什么时候卖掉那个域名的？

When I was selling this domain when did you sell that domain name?

多少年前的事了？

How many years ago?

大概两年前吧。

Two years ago, maybe.

好的。

Okay.

所以其实也没过多久。

So not that long ago, actually.

但你当时说，嗯，我们有我有6亿美元的现金。

But you were saying, like, well, we had I had $600,000,000 in cash.

公司运营得非常好。

We the company was doing great.

为什么还要继续担任CEO呢？比特币看起来像是你仅次于MicroStrategy的第二大关注点。

Why continue staying as the CEO when it seems like you're incredibly I mean, Bitcoin seems like you're one of your main top two focuses next to MicroStrategy.

为什么不完全专注于比特币，而是继续经营这家公司呢？

Why not just focus entirely on that as opposed to continuing continuing to run this business?

首先，公司有两大战略。

Well, first of all, the the business has two strategies.

第一项战略是向客户销售商业智能软件。

And the first strategy is we sell business intelligence software to our customers.

第二项战略是收购并持有比特币。

And the second strategy is we acquire and hold Bitcoin.

这就是业务的核心。

That is the business.

明白了。

Got it.

而且如果

And if

你看看我们的成就，作为一家上市公司，我们已购入了价值2.5亿美元的比特币。

you look at what we've done, bought $250,000,000 worth of Bitcoin that we had generated as a publicly traded company.

因此若没有主营业务，我们最初就无法购入那2.5亿美元的比特币。

So without the business, we couldn't have bought the first $250,000,000 of Bitcoin.

这需要完成一系列复杂的尽职调查和披露程序。

That required an intricate set of due diligence and disclosures.

随后我们进行了荷兰式招标。

Then we did a Dutch tender offer.

本质上，这是一种股权融资方式。

Basically, it's an equity offering of sorts.

你可以这样理解。

You could think of it that way.

我们实施了反向荷兰式拍卖。

We did a reverse Dutch auction.

最终阶段，我们又购入了价值1.75亿美元的比特币。

And at the end of that point, we bought another 175,000,000 worth of Bitcoin.

这是只有上市公司才能完成的另一项操作。

And so that's another thing you have to be a public company to do.

之后我们将上市公司的现金流全部转换为比特币。

Then we swept our cash flows as a public company into Bitcoin.

我们又增购了5000万美元的比特币。

We bought 50,000,000 more Bitcoin.

而且，没有公司的话，我们根本做不到这一点。

And, without the company couldn't have done it.

接着我们进行了6.5亿美元的可转换债券发行，利率为75个基点。

Then we did a convertible debt offering for $650,000,000 of debt at 75 basis points.

如果不是上市公司，我们在购买比特币时也无法完成那次操作。

And without being a public company, we couldn't have done that one either when we bought Bitcoin.

之后价格再次上涨，我们用现金流增持了一些，又进行了10亿美元的债券发行。

And then it went up again and then we did, we bought some more with cash flow and then we did a billion dollar debt offering.

我们以0%利率完成了那笔10亿美元的可转换债券发行。

And we did that billion dollar convert offering at 0% interest.

如果不是上市公司，你根本做不到这一点。

You couldn't have done that without being a public company.

所以上市公司确实有其优势。

So there are benefits to being a public company.

上市公司具有公信力。

Public companies are credible.

它们确实是交易对手方的黄金标准，对吧？

They're really the gold standard as a counterparty, right?

我是说，全球有1亿家公司。

I mean, there's a 100,000,000 companies in the world.

在美国上市交易所挂牌的上市公司只有约4000家。

There's only about 4,000 publicly traded companies on US listed exchanges.

所以这是非常非常罕见的事情。

So it's a very, very rare thing.

你需要通过大量的合规审查。

You have to go through a huge amount of compliance.

你知道，我们要提交10-Q报表、10-K报表。

You know, we're we're filing 10 q's, 10 k's.

我们拥有大量合规架构和安全架构。

We've got a lot of, lot of, compliance architecture, security architecture.

我每个季度都要签署萨班斯法案的声明文件，明白吗？

I'm signing Sarbanes Oxley, statements, you know, every quarter, right?

我们负责《反海外腐败法》这类事务，诸如此类的责任。

We're responsible for FCPA, you know, etcetera responsibility.

这让投资者对上市公司感到放心。

So that gives investors comfort with a publicly traded company.

因此这期播客最重要的结论可能是：比特币是一个爆发性增长的资产类别。

So probably the most important thing to take away from the podcast is Bitcoin is an exploding asset class.

它是我们这代人最伟大的财政储备资产。

It's the greatest treasury reserve asset of our lifetimes.

也是解决所有企业资金管理难题的答案。

And it's the solution to every company's treasury problem.

如果你的企业拥有资本或现金流，只需调整资金管理策略，就能立即让公司价值翻倍或显著提升。

So if you have a corporation that has capital or generates cash flow, you can immediately double or improve the value of the company or dramatically enhance the value of the company simply by changing your treasury policy.

假设有一家公司

If you take a company

将现金投资比特币，你就把负债转化成了资产。

with cash and you invest in Bitcoin, you have converted a liability to an asset.

所以我通过实施比特币策略来提升公司价值。

And so I was enhancing the value of the company by pursuing the Bitcoin strategy.

它们是相辅相成、协同增效的。

They go together, they're synergistic.

为了让不了解事件全貌的听众理解，我们先梳理下背景。

So let's lay out the kind of the context for people who don't know exactly how it all played out.

因为我们的听众群体——这个月大概会有30到40万人收听。

Because I would say our audience, right, we're going get about 300, 400,000 listeners this month.

在观众中，可能有5%的人和我一样对比特币狂热，已将大部分净资产投入比特币。

And in that audience, probably 5% are as crazy about Bitcoin as me and have put like a huge chunk of their net worth into Bitcoin.

然后50%的人感到好奇，50%是新手，这么说吧，大致这样划分。

And then 50% are curious and 50% are novices, let's say, just roughly rounding things out.

为了让大家有个概念，MicroStrategy是一家市值数十亿美元的上市公司。

And so just to put it into context, MicroStrategy is this couple billion dollar public company.

它成立已久，业绩良好，主营业务是企业软件销售。

It's been around for a while, has a good track record, has a business selling enterprise software.

你们能产生大量现金。

You generate a ton of cash.

你们的业务源源不断产生现金流。

Your business spits off cash.

你们手头约有5061亿美元。

You have about $506,100,000,000.

我只是用个大概数字。

I'm just using fuzzy numbers.

具体数字不重要。

Specifics don't matter.

你们动用约5061亿美元现金。

You use about $506,100,000,000 dollars of cash.

这是你们公司的资金储备，你们在考虑如何处置它。

That's your treasury for your company, and you're looking for something to do with it.

某天你突然意识到这个资金管理难题。

And at some point, you realize you have this treasury problem.

你并不孤单。

You're not alone.

实际上，所有公司都面临这个资金管理问题，无论他们是否意识到。

Actually, all companies have this treasury problem, whether they are aware of it or not.

那么你能描述一下你遇到的资金管理问题吗？

So can you describe the treasury problem that you experienced?

你是在5亿美元的规模上遇到这个问题，但任何人，包括银行里有50万或10万美元的个人，都面临着同样的根本性问题。

You experienced it at a $500,000,000 level, but anybody, including an individual with $500,000 or $100,000 in the bank, has the same fundamental problem.

所以请解释一下你几年前或一年前看到的资金管理问题。

So explain the treasury problem as you saw it a few years ago or yeah, a year ago.

资金管理问题在于，2020年3月之后，资本成本从8%飙升至25%。

The treasury problem is that subsequent to March 2020, the cost of capital exploded from 8% to 25%.

这一点你可以从标普500指数的表现看出来，它从过去十年每年约8%的增长率跃升至次年超过25%的增长率。

And, you can see that in the performance of the S and P 500 index, which went from about 8% a year for a decade to more than 25% in that next year.

这意味着任何代表有限合伙人或其他投资者进行投资的人，都必须产生这样的资本成本，以避免财富缩水。

That means that anybody investing money on behalf of a, of a limited partner or any other investor has to generate that cost of capital in order to avoid destroying wealth.

如果你作为理财顾问在2010至2020这十年间的收益率低于8%，实际上你导致了财富缩水，因为当时最简单的选择就是买入标普指数基金。

If you generated less than a 8% yield for the decade from 2010 to 2020 as a financial advisor, you destroyed wealth because the alternative was just to buy the SPY index.

如果你在2020年3月后的收益率低于25%，同样造成了财富缩水，因为当时通过指数投资本可以获得25%甚至略高的收益——具体取决于你选择的测算时点。

If you generated less than 25% from March 2020 onward, you destroyed wealth because you could have made 25% actually a bit more depending on what day of the week you measure it or what day of the year you measure it.

你本可以通过持有指数就获得这样的收益。

You could have generated that much just by owning the index.

现在的问题是：当资本成本为零时——顺便说一句，资本成本是由货币供应量扩张驱动的。

Now, the treasury problem is that when the cost of capital is zero, by the way, the cost of capital is being driven by the expansion of the money supply.

美联储当时正以每年约5%到6%的速度扩张M2货币供应量，持续了整整十年。

The federal reserve is expanding the m two money supply by about five to 6% a year for that decade.

再加上风险溢价后，就得到了标普指数8%的回报率。

And when you tack on the risk premium, you get to your 8% s and p return.

而当美联储将M2货币供应量扩张20%到25%时，就导致了资本成本的爆炸式增长。

When the when the Federal Reserve expands the m two money supply by 20 to 25%, that's where you get that explosion in the cost of capital.

这种通胀并未体现在消费品价格上。

The inflation doesn't show up in consumer goods.

通货膨胀会立即体现在资产价格上。

The inflation immediately shows up in assets.

我们正面临资产通胀。

We have asset inflation.

央行决定刺激经济的几分钟内，所有资产价格就会暴涨。

Within minutes of when, the central bank, decides to stimulate the economy, the price of all the assets explodes.

因此全球每一家公司——无论是1亿家私营企业还是上市公司——面临的问题是：国库资金必须产生资本成本收益。

And so the problem for every company, all 100,000,000 companies in the world, every private company, every public company, the problem is you have capital in your treasury and that capital has to yield the cost of capital.

如果做不到，就是在损害股东价值。

And if it doesn't, you're destroying shareholder value.

换句话说，如果你把现金存入零利率银行账户，而你想买的东西每年涨价10%，七年后你的购买力就会减半。

Another way to say it is, if you generate cash and you put it into the bank account to pay zero interest, and if the cost of everything you want to buy goes up by 10% a year, in seven years, you'll only be able to buy half as much.

你的储蓄价值已经缩水一半。

You've lost half of the value of your savings.

当折现率或资本成本翻倍时，三年半内你的资金就会损失一半。

When that discount rate or that cost of capital doubles, well then in three and a half years, you've lost half your money.

在25%的资本成本下，三年内你的财富就会减半。

At a 25% cost of capital, in three years, you've lost half your wealth.

所以国库面临的难题是资本成本暴涨。

So the treasury problem is the cost of capital has exploded.

随着资本成本飙升，每家公司都陷入两难境地。

And the cost of capital, as it goes through the roof, puts every company in a quandary.

他们要么必须去资本化，将所有资产返还股东，因为如果山姆经营美元投资公司，而你经营标普500指数投资公司——

They either have to decapitalize and give all of their assets back to their shareholders because they can't If Sam is controlling an investment company that invests in dollars and you are running an investment company that invests in the S and P five index.

我给每人100万，山姆自豪地说没让我亏钱，而你告诉我获得了25%收益——

And I gave each of you a million, and Sam proudly tells me how he didn't lose my money, and you tell me you made 25% return.

我会把所有资金从山姆的基金撤出，全部投入你的基金。

I'm pulling all my money out of Sam's fund and I'm putting it into your fund.

所以问题的核心在于公司持有资本却无法覆盖资本成本时，就必须将资金返还股东，至少会面临来自股东的极大政治压力。

So ultimately the problem is the company sitting on capital, if it can't meet the cost of capital, it has to give the money back to the shareholders, or at least it's under extreme political pressure from the share.

作为CEO，所有人都在质问：你拿着这么多现金到底要干什么？

Everybody's beating you up as CEO saying, what are you doing with all that cash?

你应该直接派发股息或者回购股票。

You should just pay a dividend or you should buy the stock back.

其次，如果你经营的公司现金流年增长率为8%，而资本成本高达25%，意味着我以高于你增长率的比率对你进行折现。

And, and the second pressure you have is if you run a company and your cash flows are growing at 8% a year, but the cost of capital is 25% a year, That means that I'm discounting you at a rate that's higher than your growth rate.

本质上，你的股票价值将被预测归零。

In essence, the value of your stock is gonna be forecast to go to zero.

当公司年增长率5%而资本成本25%时，你根本无法保值。

You can't hold value when a company growing at 5% a year when the cost of capital is 25% a year.

这就是为什么你只能投资高增长的科技股。

That's why the only thing that you can buy is gonna be a high-tech stock that's growing.

你需要收购年增长率能达到20%或25%的科技垄断企业。

You need to buy a tech monopoly that can grow 20 or 25% a year.

如果你向我推荐一个能产生大量现金但年增长率仅2%或1%的企业方案，在高资本成本环境下我毫无兴趣。

And if you come to me with a business idea for a company which makes a lot of cash or makes a lot of money, but it's growing 2% a year or 1% a year, I'm just not interested in a high cost of capital environment.

因此我们在三月面临的问题是：该怎么办？

So the problem we faced in March is what do we do?

把所有钱都返还股东吗？

Give all the money back to the shareholders?

还是能找到投资回报率超过25%的项目？

Or can we find something to invest in that's going to actually generate more than 25% return?

这就引出了一个问题。

And that puts us to a question.

所以我们最终采取的做法是折中方案。

So what we did in essence was split the difference.

要知道，在理想情况下，我会直接买进价值5亿美元的比特币，发布新闻稿并执行。

You know, if if I was in a situation in the ideal situation, you would just buy 500,000,000 worth of Bitcoin and put out a press release and do it.

但如果你这么做，外部股东会受到巨大冲击，他们可能会担心有人会起诉我们或抛售股票，因为你过于激进，他们会指控你承担了未披露的风险。

But if you did that, that would be such a shock to the outside shareholders that the fear would be, well, is someone gonna sue us or dump the stock because you were so aggressive because they'll claim that you took a risk that you didn't disclose.

所以我们的对策是：让我们向所有人披露。

So our response is let's disclose everybody.

我们即将承担一项风险。

We're about to take a risk.

之后，我们就放手一搏。

And after that, let's go ahead and take a risk.

但同时，我们要给所有人一份保险单。

But at the same time, let's give everybody an insurance policy.

所以我们提议在这次荷兰式拍卖中回购价值2.5亿美元的股票。

So we we offered to buy back $250,000,000 worth of the stock in this Dutch auction.

这样，如果你不同意购买比特币的决策，你可以通过出售股票获利退出。

So if you disagree with the decision to buy Bitcoin, you can sell the stock back at a at a profit.

我们股价是1.2美元。

Our stock was $1.20.

我们提出以最高1.4美元的价格回购股票。

We offered to buy the stock back at up to 140.

因此我们通过提供股权退出策略，缓冲了投资策略带来的冲击。

And so we cushioned the blow of the investment strategy by giving people an exit strategy from the equity.

这实现了股东基础的轮换，随后我们开始将比特币作为主要国库储备资产来推行，面对不同的股东群体。

That rotates the shareholder base, and then we began to pursue the Bitcoin strategy as a primary treasury reserve asset with different shareholder base.

那我问你个问题。

So let me ask you a question.

我喜欢这个比喻或者说这种意识——嘿，我们面前有碗正在融化的大冰淇淋。

Now I like the analogy or the kind of the awareness that, hey, we have this giant bowl of ice cream that's melting.

那是你的现金堆在融化。

That's your cash pile that's melting.

而热量本质上就是印钞机，它正在导致资产通胀。

And the heat is basically the money printer that is causing asset inflation.

正在融化的冰块。

Ice cube that's melting.

我们大约有5亿美元的冰块，每年融化20%。

We have about $500,000,000 ice cube and it's melting 20% a year.

五年内就会消失殆尽。

It'll be gone in five years.

所以你需要对此采取行动。

So you needed to do something with that.

你不想让它全部融化掉。

You didn't want it to all melt away.

于是你决定这么做。

So you decided to do this.

现在，有几个快速问题。

Now, a couple of quick questions.

首先是这种快问快答形式。

One is this is sort of rapid fire.

我有几个快问快答的问题要

I've got a couple of rapid fire questions for

问你。

you.

从现在起的二十年后，你认为什么会为MicroStrategy公司创造更多价值或收入？

In twenty years from now, what do you think has generated more value or more income to the company, to MicroStrategy?

是MicroStrategy的运营收入，还是其所持比特币的投资收益？

Is it the operating income of MicroStrategy or the investment income of the Bitcoin it holds?

投资收益是肯定的。

The investment income for sure.

好的。

Okay.

然后现在要

And then Now to

明确地说，2020年3月发生的情况是，当资本成本上升到25%时，意味着每个投资者和所有投资收益，每个投资者什么都不做就能多赚25%。

be to be very clear, what happened in March 2020 is when the cost of capital goes to 25%, that means that every investor and all investment income, every investor generated 25% more doing nothing.

对。

Right.

而每家实体企业即使多努力25%也一无所获。

And every main street company that worked 25% harder got nothing.

没错。

Right.

对。

Right.

这实际上是在倾斜竞争环境——如果你不持有资产，而持有资产的人正经历三十年来最好的一年。

You literally tilt the playing field so that if you don't own, if you own assets, you're having the best year of a thirty years.

如果你不持有资产，就不可能有好年景。

And if you don't own assets, it's impossible to have a good year.

确实。

Right.

那么第二个问题是，随着你们收购越来越多的比特币，MicroStrategy现在的定位是否就像一只比特币ETF？

And so the second question is, as you acquire more and more Bitcoin, is MicroStrategy bet Like, do you just position the company at this point like it's a Bitcoin ETF?

就像是买入这个

It's like buy this

比特币不，购买它相当于持有一只ETF。

Bitcoin No, buying it's at a holding ETF.

你这些话太马虎了。

You're sloppy with those words.

ETF是一家投资证券的公司，它试图使其管理的资产与其售出的ETF份额相等。

An ETF is a company that invests in securities and it tries to keep its assets under management equal to the amount of shares of ETF that it sold.

这是一家金融公司。

It's a financial company.

ETP是类似类型的公司，但它投资的是大宗商品。

An ETP is a similar type of company that invests in commodities.

如果你创建的这个比特币实体能使管理资产与你售出的份额相等，那你就创建了一个比特币ETP。

If you create this Bitcoin entity that equalizes assets under management equal to the shares you sell, you created a Bitcoin ETP.

我们两者都不是。

We're neither of those things.

我们不是金融公司。

We're not a finance company.

我们不是ETF。

We're not an ETF.

我们不是ETP。

We're not an ETP.

我们不会通过买卖比特币来平衡管理资产。

We're not equal we're not buying or selling Bitcoin to equalize assets under management.

我们是一家拥有资产的运营公司。

We're, an operating company that owns property.

比特币是资产。

Bitcoin is property.

从这个角度说，你应该把它看作一家公司——就像我在德克萨斯州买下百万英亩土地，或是买下百万加仑的...（填空），百万蒲式耳的大豆。

And in that way, you should think of it as a company that like I bought a million acres of land in Texas, or I bought a million gallons of fill in the blank, a million bushels of soybean.

你可以购买任何类型的资产，并作为公司将其保留在资产负债表上，对吧？

You can buy any kind of property, And you're holding it on your balance sheet as a company, right?

这就是我们的本质。

That's what we are.

现在你有什么问题？

Now what's your question?

你指的是资本成本为25%的情况，对吧？

You are talking about like, let's say the cost of capital being 25%, right?

因为自三月份以来，标普500指数就是这样的表现。

Because since March, that's what the S and P 500 has done.

但股市确实会涨跌，有些年份市场会下跌然后回升。

But the stock market goes it does go up and down in years where the market dips and goes up.

长期来看，几何平均数大概是7%或8%左右。

Average over time, the geometric mean is whatever, 7% or 8%, something like that.

所以有些人会认为，好吧，今年资产确实膨胀了这么多。

So some would argue, okay, yes, this year assets inflated by that much.

但这不意味着明年还会保持25%的年增长率。

That doesn't mean next year it's going to remain at 25% a year.

因此你必须做些预测，对吧？

And so you have to make some prediction, right?

那么你基本上是预测25%、15%、10%还是8%？

And so are you basically forecasting it at 25%, 15%, 10%, 8%?

这个数字达到某个临界点时，决策会改变吗？

And does the decision change at a certain number there?

首先，2010到2020这十年间，资本成本普遍在8%左右。

First of all, for the decade from 2010 to 2020, it was generally about 8%.

这个数据相当稳定。

Like it was pretty consistent.

而资本成本最大的单一驱动因素是广义货币供应的扩张速度。

And the single biggest driver of cost of capital is the rate at which the broad money supply expands.

如果你去谷歌搜索'M2货币供应量美联储'，会看到一张图表，顺便说一句，这张图表走势非常稳定。

And if you look at, if you go Google m two money supply fed, you'll get a chart and you'll see the chart by the way, the chart's not all over the place.

这张图表呈现出高度一致性，十年间保持着7%的斜率增长。

The chart is very consistent, 7% slope for a decade.

它没有剧烈波动。

It's not jerking around.

所以货币供应并不算不稳定。

So it's not that volatile.

过去十年执行的货币政策具有高度连贯性。

It was very consistent monetary policy for a decade.

然后这张图表突然直线上升了24%。

Then that chart goes like this straight up 24%.

因此作为投资者做决策时——这适用于全球所有价值400万亿的投资者和每家企业——

So if you, if you if you're going to make a decision as an investor, and this is any investor, what This applies to all 400,000,000,000,000 worth of investors and applies to every company on earth.

他们都需要计算同一个关键指标：必须预估未来八年每年的货币供应扩张速率。

They all have the same exact thing they have to calculate, which is you have to estimate the rate at which the money supply will expand each year for the next eight years.

这就是如果你想把握全球最重要的信号——对每个人至关重要的核心要素。

And so that's the if you wanna figure out the signal or or the single most important thing in the world for everyone, but for everyone.

对78亿人口、1亿家企业、地球上所有拥有资产或领取薪水的人而言。

7,800,000,000 people for a 100,000,000 companies, for everyone with money on earth or everyone that earns a salary on earth.

这是本期播客的核心观点。

This is the big idea of the podcast.

你必须预估货币的扩张速度。

You have to estimate the rate at which the currency is going to expand.

如果你认为未来八年货币会以每年15%的速度扩张，就会得出某种结论。

And if you believe the currency is going to continue to expand at 15% a year for the next eight years, you come to one conclusion.

如果输入10%的增长率，则会得到不同结论。

If you plug in 10%, it's a different conclusion.

如果是25%，那结论就不同了。

If it's 25%, it's a different conclusion.

那么，我是怎么想的？

So, what do I think?

我认为未来八年保持15%的通胀率是合理的。

I think that 15% is 15% for the next eight years is reasonable.

如果你是悲观主义者，可能会说20%。

If you're a pessimist, you could say 20.

如果你是乐观主义者，可能会说10%。

If you're an optimist, you could say 10.

但货币供应量正在扩张，因为美联储和欧洲央行每年各自购买价值万亿的债券。

But the money supply is expanding because the Federal Reserve and the EU Central Bank are buying a trillion dollars worth of bonds every year each.

货币扩张还因为欧盟政府和美国正在运行数万亿美元的财政赤字。

And it's also expanding because the the government of the EU and The US are running a multi trillion dollar deficit.

此外，超过万亿美元的刺激计划也在推动货币扩张。

And it is also expanding because of trillion dollar plus stimulus.

而且没有理由认为这种情况在未来四年会改变。

And there's no reason to think that's gonna change in the next four years.

我认为在未来八年内也不会改变——想想民主党掌控参众两院时的情况，如果当时是分裂政府，你本可以预测到12%的通胀率。

And I don't think in the next eight years, think that at the point that the Democrats took control of the Senate and the House, you saw that you have You could have forecasted 12% inflation, if it was a split government.

但在非分裂政府下，似乎存在显著共识：我们应该维持赤字，继续维持低利率，并持续刺激经济。

But I think that in a non split government, there seems to be remarkable consensus that we should run deficits, continue to keep interest rates low, and continue to stimulate the economy.

这意味着什么？

So what does that mean?

如果代入15%这个数字，意味着无风险利率或无风险回报率是15%。

If you plug in a number 15%, it means that the risk free interest rate or the risk free return is 15%.

这意味着你未来四年每年必须获得超过15%的超额收益，才能跑赢资产通胀率。

It means you have to generate an excess of 15% on your money every year for the next four years in order to stay ahead of the rate of asset inflation.

理性的人会说资产将以那个速率膨胀。

A reasonable person would say the assets are going to inflate at that rate.

这基本上就是它们的运作方式。

That's that's pretty much what they do.

这意味着如果你的公司现金流增长率不足20%，那么其股票就无法保值。

That means that if your company is not growing its cash flows, you know, at a 20% rate, then it's not gonna hold value as a stock.

这说明如果你的债券利率低于15%，你就是在让债券贬值。

It means that if your bond is paying you an interest rate of less than 15%, you're destroying value in the bond.

如果租金收益率低于15%，你的商业地产就在贬值。

If your rent yield is less than 15%, your commercial real estate's destroying value.

而如果你持有现金，每年就会损失15%的价值。

And if you're holding cash, you're losing 15% of it a year.

这就是负实际收益率。

That's the negative real yield.

所以当你真正接受资产通胀的概念时，就会明白资产通胀等于资本成本，等于货币供应扩张速率。

So once you actually, embrace the idea of asset inflation, and asset inflation equals cost of capital equals the rate of the money supply expansion.

一旦你掌握了这个速率，就会发现除了比特币之外，几乎所有资产都存在双重负实际收益率。

Once you have that rate, then you realize that there's a negative real real yield on everything except for Bitcoin for the most part.

黄金的负实际收益率是3%。

The negative real yield on gold is 3%.

这是我们开采或抵押黄金的速率。

That's the rate at which we mine it or hypothecate it.

主权债务的负实际收益率约为12%到13%。

The negative real yield on sovereign debt is about 12%, 13.

公司债的负实际收益率是10%。

The negative real yield on corporate debt is 10%.

任何增长率低于15%的公司都存在负实际收益率。

Every company that's got a growth rate of less than 15% has got a negative real yield on it.

所以，一旦你这样做，你就会意识到，除非找到解决资金问题的方法，否则公司根本无法制定商业策略。

So, you know, once you do that, then you can then what you realize is you can't really have a business strategy as a company unless you find a way to solve the treasury problem.

这里的核心理念是：要修复任何公司，将所有现金流导入比特币，将资金储备转为比特币，以未来美元现金流为抵押借款并转为比特币，用美元融资所有固定资产并转为比特币，尽可能以当前最高估值发行美元股票并投资比特币。

So the big idea here is you wanna fix any company, sweep all the cash flows into Bitcoin, convert the treasury into Bitcoin, borrow against your future cash flows in dollars, convert that into Bitcoin, finance all your fixed assets in dollars, convert that into Bitcoin, and issue equity as much as you can now at the highest valuation you can now in dollars and invest in Bitcoin.

对吧？

Right?

你可能会问，为什么是比特币？

And and you might say, why Bitcoin?

因为比特币是顶级资产。

Well, because Bitcoin is the apex property.

它是宇宙中最稀缺的货币资产。

It's the most scarce monetary asset in the universe.

你无法再创造更多。

You can't make any more of it.

这是加密货币。

It's encrypted money.

这意味着它最不容易受到财产税、执行问题、货币超发、稀释、对手方风险和腐败的损害。

And and what that means is it's least likely to be impaired by a property tax and execution issue, money printing, dilution, counterparty risk and corruption.

所以我们设计了一种优质资产，一种热力学稳定、技术领先的资产。

So we have engineered a superior asset, a thermodynamically sound technically superior asset.

它部署在全球数字监控网络上，这是一个开放的协议。

It's placed on a global digital monitoring network, which is open, an open protocol.

顶级资产与开放货币体系的结合，使其成为世界上最具颠覆性的技术。

And the combination of the APEX asset on the open monetary system makes it the the most disruptive technology in the world.

当你最初创立微策略时，你深陷细节之中。

When you were first starting MicroStrategy, you were you were in the weeds.

你当时想的是，我必须开发能解决问题的产品，并且要靠它赚钱。

You were thinking, I have to make a product that solves a problem, and I I have to make money off of it.

对吧？

Right?

现在你已经上升到了更高的层次

Now you've gone way up the hierarchy of

现在我们可以为所欲为了

Now we can do whatever we want.

现在你可以为所欲为了

Now you can do whatever you want.

你是在什么时候注意到这种转变的？

At what point did you notice a shift?

就像是，天啊

Like, oh my gosh.

就像是，这个业务很稳定

Like, this business is stable.

它运作得相当不错

It's working it's working pretty well.

是的

Yep.

这相当可预测

It's quite predictable.

这种转变是在什么时候发生的？

At what point did that shift happen?

因为你现在谈论的内容我认为与

Because what you're talking about now is quite foreign I think to what

我们看

we look.

当我们真正接受比特币时就解决了问题

We solved our problem when we actually embraced Bitcoin.

我 我 我可以对你说，哦，是的。

I I I could say to you, oh, yeah.

为什么不呢？

Why not?

当我在银行里有5亿现金时，我确实可以。

When I had 500,000,000 in cash in the bank, I could.

然后我们就专注于此。

And then we were focused.

但问题是，如果你有一大笔现金却不产生任何利息，资本成本上升到25%时，所有上市公司投资者都会抛弃这家公司。

But the problem with that is that if you have a bunch of cash generating zero interest, the cost of capital goes 25%, then all the public company investors forsake the company.

如果股票市场抛弃了公司，主流媒体也会随之抛弃它。

And if the stock if the if the stock market forsakes the company, then mainstream media forstakes the company.

对吧？

Right?

员工们会因此沮丧，因为最终Facebook、亚马逊、苹果或谷歌会挖走你所有的员工。

Then the employees become dejected because eventually you're gonna have Facebook, Amazon, Apple, or Google steal every one of your employees.

如果你无法推高股价，对吧？

If you can't drive the stock up, right?

没人愿意投资一家每年仅以5%速度增长却赚很多钱的公司。

Nobody wants to invest in a company that makes a lot of money growing at 5% a year.

这么说可能显得很残酷。

I mean, seems brutal to say that.

顺便说一句，如果资本成本为零，情况就不一样了。

By the way, it wouldn't be true if the cost capital was zero.

如果我们国家实行稳健的货币政策，你就能昂首挺胸地说：我经营着这家很棒的餐厅，去年我们赚了很多钱。

If we had a sound money policy in this country, then you could hold your head up high and say, I run this great restaurant and we made a lot of money last year.

今年我们还会赚很多钱。

We're gonna make a lot of money this year.

我们的计划是继续保持我们一直在做的事情。

And our plan is to keep doing what we've been doing.

我已经表扬过你，说这很好，这很值得尊敬。

And I already pat you on the back and say, that's good, that's honorable.

但如果我告诉你，我每年要让现金贬值25%或20%，到某个时候，你就会被逼入这样的循环：要么进行大规模收购来维持收入增长。

But if I tell you I'm gonna devalue the cash by 25% a year or 20 a year, at some point, you're driven into this cycle where I have to either do a big acquisition to keep my revenues growing.

要么承担极大风险进行稀释性收购，要么借入数十亿美元回购股票以提高每股现金流。

I have to take extreme risk and do dilutive acquisitions, or I have to go borrow billions of dollars to buy the stock back to leverage up the cash flow per share.

如果这两件事都不做，投资者就会抛售股票，大量抛售。

And if I don't do either of those things, the investors dump the stock and they dump the stock.

员工们会开始觉得，为什么不去那些更酷更热门的地方工作呢？你的工程师都会被Facebook或亚马逊这样的公司挖走。

The employees start feeling like, you know, why don't they go work someplace cool and hot and you're gonna get all your engineers stripped away by Facebook or Amazon or something.

所以事实是，当我们真正修复资产负债表时，我们就修复了股价，也修复了公司。目前公司拥有超过50亿美元的资产。

So the truth is, when we actually fix the balance sheet, we fix the stock and we fix the At this point, the company has $5,000,000,000 more than $5,000,000,000 in assets.

如果资本成本保持在，比如说上升20%，如果我们明年多印20%的钱，我可以合理预期产生10亿美元的投资收益，这相当于比特币增长20%，对吧？

If the cost of capital remains at, let's say it goes up 20%, if we print 20% more money next year, I can reasonably expect to generate a billion dollars in investment income, which would be a 20% increase in Bitcoin, right?

但事实是，我可以合理预期比这更好的结果。

But the truth is, I can reasonably expect better than that.

如果资本成本是10，我可以合理预期5亿美元的投资收益。

If, the cost of capital is 10, I can reasonably expect 500,000,000 investment income.

2000人全年完美完成10万件事，与资金雄厚的微软竞争，他们一年能产生7500万美元。

Well, all 2,000 people doing a 100,000 things right perfectly for the entire year competing against Microsoft that has more money than God, they can generate 75,000,000 a year.

好的。

Okay.

所以事实是，当我们把资产负债表转换为比特币后，公司的未来就变得安全了，因为现在我们不必再挣扎。

So so the truth is the company, its future became secure when we actually converted the balance sheet to Bitcoin because now we don't have to struggle.

让我换种方式来说。

Let me say it a different way.

我认为在2021年，任何公司没有财务策略都不可能成功。

I don't think any company could be successful without a financial strategy in the year 2021.

就像我在三四年前不会这么说一样。

Like I wouldn't have said it three, four years ago.

如果你拥有一个货币供应量每年增长2%到3%的稳健货币宏观经济环境，你就可以去生产、创造、营销、销售和服务产品，并从中产生现金流。

If you have a sound money, macroeconomic environment where the money supply is expanding at two or 3% a year, you can go out and make things and create things and market things and sell things and service things and generate cash with that.

这样，这一切就说得通了。

And then, and that makes sense.

但如果货币供应量每年增长20%，你就需要持有资产，因为没有人会投资回报率低于20%这个门槛利率的项目。

But if the money supply is expanding at 20% a year, you need to own assets because, because what's happening is no one's going to invest in any project that doesn't generate more than the 20% hurdle rate.

那么谁能持续获得无风险的20%回报呢？

And so who can generate consistently risk free 20% returns?

你必须成为垄断者。

You have to be a monopoly.

是的。

Yeah.

你必须拥有数字垄断或某种形式的垄断。

You have to have a digital monopoly or some kind of monopoly.

因此增长变得指数级困难。

So it becomes exponentially harder to grow.

接下来会发生什么？

What and so what happens next?

所有这些其他公司都可能被挤出生态系统，对吧？

All these other companies could get squeezed out of the ecosystem, right?

会因为货币政策而资本枯竭并陷入破产。

Get decapitalized and rendered insolvent by the monetary policy.

所以我想说，如果我的股票能涨到每股120美元，现在是多少呢？

So I would say that, if I can get my stock was a $120 a share, what is it right now?

比如，我还没去市场上查过，但是

Like, I haven't checked in the market, but

7.68美元。

$7.68.

好的。

Okay.

所以

So

如果我能让股价上涨，那我就能让股东们满意。

if I if I get my stock up, then I can actually make my shareholders happy.

我可以改变舆论风向。

I can change the narrative.

我能招到人才。

I can recruit.

我能留住人才。

I can retain talent.

我能获得，你知道，我能提振客户的信心。

I can get that, you know, I can inspire the confidence of my customers.

我能推动发展势头吗？

I can I can drive momentum?

然后我们就能做想做的事了。

And then we can do what we wanna do.

我想这类似于，如果你是一所大学，要么没有捐赠基金，要么有十亿美元捐赠基金，要么有千亿美元捐赠基金。

I guess it's it's similar to if you're a university and you had no endowment, or university that has a billion dollar endowment, or university that has a $100,000,000,000 endowment.

如果你是教授，你想去哪所大学工作？

If you're a professor, which university you wanna work for?

如果你是学生，你想去哪里上学？

If you're a student, where do you wanna go?

你们是不是要建一座闪闪发光的新大楼？

You have a shiny building coming or not, right?

说到底，对吧？

At the end of the day, right?

金钱是衡量能量的标准。

Money is a measure of energy.

所以如果你拥有货币资产，你就拥有能量。

And so if you have monetary assets, you have energy.

如果你能量充沛，就能正直地追求自己的愿景。

And if you have high energy, you can pursue your vision, you know, with integrity.

你现在花多少时间在投资收入上，相比日常的微观策略和常规业务——也就是制作商业智能产品与投资收入？

And what percentage of your time now are you spending on this on investing the income versus on the day to day of micro strategy of just the the business as usual, the products that making business intelligence products versus investing the the income?

我是CEO，但我们有一位总裁。

I'm the CEO, but we have a president.

公司的总裁是李方。

And the president of the company is Fong Lee.

实际上他现在负责日常运营，包括销售、营销甚至技术开发。

He actually has day to day operational responsibility for sales, marketing, and even technology development at this point.

所以我是董事长兼CEO。

So I'm the chairman and the CEO.

我负责公司战略和财务战略。

I oversee the company strategy and I oversee financial strategies.

我把握长期方向和技术战略，但不参与日常业务运营的琐事。

I oversee long term direction and I oversee technology strategy, but I'm not in the weeds in the day to day running the business.

这些都交给运营执行团队负责。

That's really left for the operating executive team.

大约一年前，我发推文说已将25%的净资产转入比特币，现在这个比例已经涨到差不多超过50%了。

So about a year ago, I tweeted out that I had moved 25% of my net worth into Bitcoin, which has now become like, I don't know, 50 plus percent almost.

一位朋友打电话给我，就是经常上我们播客的那位安德鲁·威尔金森。

And a friend called me, our friend who comes on this podcast, his name is Andrew Wilkinson.

他是个非常成功的商人。

Very successful business guy.

现在他在加拿大有一家上市公司。

He's got a public company in Canada now.

他名下企业的总市值大约超过十亿美元。

Sort of has he owns businesses that are worth about over a billion dollars.

他打电话给我时这样说：'嘿，我只是想确认你知道自己在做什么。'

And he called me and he was just like, Hey, I just want to make sure you know what you're doing here.

就像一位关心你的朋友那样。

And, you know, like a concerned friend.

他算是沃伦·巴菲特的信徒，奉行巴菲特的投资理念。

And he comes from like kind of the Warren Buffett you know, he's a Warren Buffett disciple.

众所周知，巴菲特和芒格——查理·芒格称比特币是老鼠药，后来巴菲特更是说这是老鼠药的平方。

And famously, Buffett and Munger you know, Charlie Munger called Bitcoin rat poison, and then Buffett called it rat poison squared.

所以当这些成就斐然、备受尊敬的智者谈论比特币时...

And so you get really intelligent people who are well respected for what they've done talking about Bitcoin.

那么首先，你对巴菲特关于比特币的观点有何看法？

So first, what's your reaction to the Buffett opinion on Bitcoin?

我认为每个人都受限于自己的认知框架。

I think everybody's captured by their frame of reference.

沃伦·巴菲特——你同意沃伦·巴菲特主要靠股票投资赚钱这个说法吗？

Warren Buffett would you agree that Warren Buffett for the most part made money investing in stocks?

是的。

Yeah.

而且主要是非科技类股票。

In non technology stocks primarily.

也许还要监管运营公司。

And maybe overseeing operating companies.

如果他在尼日利亚、津巴布韦或阿根廷过去十五年里这样做，或者在委内瑞拉，他能有多成功？

How successful would he have been if he did that in Nigeria or let's say Zimbabwe or Argentina for the past fifteen years or Venezuela?

不会很好。

Not very well.

那种策略不会奏效。

That strategy wouldn't have worked.

例如，如果你在津巴布韦做生意时货币崩溃，没有任何策略能奏效。

For example, there is no strategy that would work, if you were a business person in Zimbabwe, when the currency collapsed.

如果你看看阿根廷的蓝元，阿根廷比索曾经确实与美元等值。

And if you look at the Argentine blue dollar, the Argentine peso actually used to be worth a dollar.

后来变成了3比索兑1美元。

And then it was 3 pesos to the dollar.

如今它在黑市上交易。

Today it's on the black market.

他们称之为蓝市。

They call it the blue market.

现在大约是150比索兑1美元。

It's worth about 150 pesos to the dollar.

要知道，如果你生活在一个可以假设货币坚挺且不存在问题、股票会正常运作的世界里。

There's, you know, if you live in a world where you just, let's just start by assuming the currency is strong and we have no problem with that and that stocks are going to work.

然后我们再来讨论投资策略。

And then let's talk about our investment strategy.

好吧，如果你生活在那个世界并能做出这些假设，那很好。

Well, if you live in that world and you can make those assumptions, great.

但如果未来十年货币每年贬值15%呢？

But what if the currency weakens at 15% a year for the next decade?

那么你的策略行不通。

Then your strategy doesn't work.

所以我认为，世界上大部分都是成功人士，但有两样东西是缺失的。

So I think that for the most part, the world's full of successful people, but there's two things that are missing.

第一，他们乐观地假设，在美国和西欧，无论我们面临何种货币挑战，无论货币多么疲软，都能迅速得到纠正。

One, they're assuming optimistically that, that in The United States and Western Europe, whatever currency challenges we have, whatever weakness of the currency we have will be rapidly rectified.

他们要么是在否认现实。

They're either in denial.

以下是你会知道的方式。

Here's how you'll know.

作为一个投资者，问问别人他们去年的表现如何。

Ask someone as an investor how they did last year.

如果他们诚实，他们会说，美元暴跌，而我所有的股票都上涨了20%到50%，因为美元走弱了。

If they're honest, they'll say, the dollar crashed and all my stocks are up 20 to 50% because the dollar's weaker.

如果他们告诉你，哦，我去年表现很好。

And if they tell you, Oh, I had a great year.

我的投资组合上涨了37%或50%，因为我是个选股天才。

My portfolio is up 37% or 50% because I'm a genius stock picker.

对吧？

Right?

这就是你解读世界的方式。

That's how you interpret the world.

是美元在走弱，还是市场在好转，对吧？

Is the dollar weakening or is the market getting better, right?

因此，有很多人在他们的参考框架内取得了成功。

And so there's a lot of people that have been successful in their frame of reference.

所以他们就把成功归功于自己选股有道或经营策略得当这些美德行为。

And so they just attribute the virtuous activity of, you know, their virtuous stock picking or their virtuous business strategy for their success.

对吧？

Right?

然后他们还奇怪为什么别人不能像他们一样。

And then they wonder why everybody else can't be like them.

没错。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

然后我认为第二部分是比特币代表范式转变。

And then I think the second part of this is Bitcoin is paradigm shift.

这是人类历史上首次成功将第一层货币置于数字网络上。

It's the first time in the history of the human race that we managed to put first layer money on a digital network.

我是说，这根本无从研究。

I mean, there is nothing to study.

有人告诉你他们研究过这个。

Someone is telling you they've studied this.

你怎么可能研究过它？

How could you have studied it?

就像我们发明了火或电一样。

It's like we invented fire or we invented electricity.

这是个如此新的发明，如果你朋友说，我花了47小时研究比特币，对吧？

It's such a new invention that, if your friend said, I spent forty seven hours studying Bitcoin, right?

我对它如何发展成为主导性数字资产网络有以下具体担忧。

And I have the following detail concerns about how it's going to evolve as a dominant digital asset network.

这些就是我所担心的问题。

And these are the things I'm worried about.

或许这会是个建设性的对话。

Maybe it would be constructive conversation.

但我觉得大多数人还不明白，他们甚至还没意识到这是一个数字货币网络。

But, I think that most people don't, they don't even understand yet that it's a digital monetary network.

他们甚至不知道这类事物的存在。

They don't even know there's a class of such a thing.

这是人类历史上的首次创举。

It's the first such thing in the history of human race.

我创造了通过强加密在数字空间实现财产确权的能力。

I've created the ability to manifest property in cyberspace using strong encryption.

并且我将这个网络去中心化，使得没有任何公司、CEO或国家能成为单点故障。

And I have decentralized that network such that no company or no CEO or no country can be a point of failure.

这是人类史上的第一次。

This is a first in the human race.

这是数字空间中燃烧着万亿美元能量的烈火。

This is a fire in cyberspace that's burning with a trillion dollars of energy.

这是全球历史上增长最快的数字网络，仅用十二年就达到万亿美元规模。

It's the fastest growth to a trillion dollars of any digital network in the history of the world, twelve years.

所以如果你接受这点并说：好吧，我面临两个问题。

And so if you embrace that and you say, okay, I've got two things going on here.

从宏观角度看，这是三十年来首次美国和欧洲的广义货币供应量全部联动，并以超过20%的速度同步崩溃。

I have a macro, this is the first time in thirty years that the money supply, the broad money supply in The US and Europe is all linked and all collapsing at a rate north of 20%.

我们从未经历过这种情况，你们这代人没有，我这辈子也没有。

We didn't have this, not in your lifetime, not in my lifetime.

上次出现类似情况是1980年，再往前是七十年代末。

The last time we got something similar, this was 1980, and before '9 in the seventies.

但在七十年代，各国央行各行其是——德国央行、法国央行、美联储。

But in the seventies, you had a bunch of different central banks, the German bank, the French bank, The US Bank.

当时美元还不是世界流通货币。

The US was not the world current.

这大约占1980年代外汇交易的30%比例。

It was like 30% of the currency trades in the 1980s.

并不是90%。

It wasn't 90%.

随后欧盟成立了。

So we had the formation of the EU.

欧盟将所有欧洲货币与美元挂钩。

The EU tied all of European currency to the dollar.

这占据了全球90%的货币量，其他央行也都与美元挂钩。

That became 90% of all the currency, every other central bank tied in the dollar.

因此过去十二个月里，美联储的操作和M2货币供应量的扩张实质上同时削弱了全球所有货币。

So we arrive in a period in the last twelve months where, where the behavior of the US fed and the expansion of the m two money supply is in essence weakening every currency on earth at the same time.

目前主要存在三类货币体系。

You've only got three sets of currencies.

强势货币正以与美元相同的速率贬值。

You've got the strong currencies weakening at the same rate as the dollar.

这涉及约20个富裕国家。

You've and that's like 20 rich countries.

大多数货币对美元汇率额外贬值20%至40%。

Then you've got most currencies weakening 20 to 40% more against the dollar.

最后一篮子货币对美元贬值幅度达80%甚至更高。

And then you've got the last basket of currencies weakening 80% or more against the dollar.

这些货币正在彻底崩溃。

They're utterly collapsing.

我们正面临人类历史上从未出现过的宏观经济形势。

And so you have a macroeconomic circumstance we've never seen in our lifetime.

同时我们还拥有这项技术——它比谷歌、脸书更具颠覆性，比YouTube、Zoom更具破坏力，甚至超越了iPhone的影响力。

And then you have a technology, the most disruptive technology of our life, more disruptive than Google, Facebook, more disruptive than YouTube, more disruptive than Zoom, more disruptive than the iPhone.

谷歌用了22年时间达到万亿美元市值。

It took Google twenty two years to get to a trillion.

亚马逊用了24年时间达到万亿美元市值。

It took Amazon twenty four years to get to a trillion.

苹果公司用了42年时间达到万亿美元市值。

It took Apple forty two years to get to a trillion.

微软用了44年时间达到万亿美元市值。

It took Microsoft forty four years to get to a trillion.

比特币只用了12年。

It took Bitcoin 12.

这是一场货币之火。

It's a monetary fire.

它正在网络空间熊熊燃烧。

It's burning in cyberspace.

顺便说一句，这两件事结合起来——你该如何助长货币之火？

And these two things together, by the way, how do you feed a monetary fire?

用更多的钱。

With money.

比以往任何时候都多的钱。

More money than ever.

金钱正在助长这场大火，对吧？

The money is feeding the fire, right?

任何生活在舒适环境中、沿用去年有效商业策略的人，对吧？

And anybody living in a comfortable environment with a business strategy that worked last year, right?

他们将会后知后觉，因为他们尚未意识到这是根本性的变革。

They're going to be late to understand this because they haven't had this jarring realization that there's something fundamentally different.

但如果你生活在阿根廷或黎巴嫩——以黎巴嫩为例，当地货币一夜之间贬值80%。

But if you lived in Argentina or you lived in Lebanon and your currency, like let's take Lebanon, it collapses overnight by 80%.

如果有人递给你一部iPhone说，你可以把比特币存在这里，明天就不会破产挨饿。

And if someone handed you an iPhone and said, you can put Bitcoin on this and you won't be broke and starving tomorrow.

你就会有动力去学习这项新技术，因为你的整个世界都在你眼前崩塌了。

You would have an incentive to learn about this new technology because your entire world crashed around your head.

但如果你生活在一个自以为投资组合刚获得30%回报的世界里，你对问题的认识就不那么深刻了。

But if you're living in a world where you think you just made 30% return on your portfolio, you don't quite have the same appreciation of the problem.

是啊。

Yeah.

请继续，萨姆。

Go ahead, Sam.

所以这几乎像是...做这些决定的根源绝对是股东利益、股东价值，但很大程度上也源于——嗯，我就是想吸引顶尖人才。

So you you it it almost is it's almost like rooted in the decision to do all of this is definitely shareholder stuff, shareholder value, but a lot of it was like rooted like, well, I just wanna attract great talent.

或者说这绝对是一个考量因素。

Or that was definitely a a factor.

现在那里有多少员工？

How how many people work there now?

2000人？

2,000?

大概两千...

About two How

这对你们的招聘和留任能力产生了什么影响？

how has this impacted your ability to recruit and retain people?

对留任非常有利，对招聘也很有帮助。

It's great for retention and it's been great for recruiting.

首先我们能...我们能吸引人才，公司的品牌效应已经放大了上千倍。

We can get we we get people first of all, the company's brand has been amped up by a factor of a thousand.

我的意思是，现在知道我们的人多多了。

I mean, a lot more people know us now.

现在的文化氛围是怎样的？

Like, what's the culture like now?

有什么不同吗？

Is it different?

只是更加快乐了。

Just more just happy.

比特币就是希望。

Bitcoin is hope.

好的。

Okay.

让我换个方式来说。

So let me say it a different way.

假设你家有10万美元，今天突然发现存在黎巴嫩银行里只剩2万了，既不能花还会继续贬值。

If your family has a $100,000 and you showed up, you know, today, and I told you it was in a bank in Lebanon and now it's 20,000, but you can't spend it and it's going to zero.

你家人的士气会怎样？

What's your family's morale?

对吧？

Right?

这个嘛，我是说，我看到过

Well, It's I like mean, you've I seen

有人因此丧命。

people death.

但如果同年你家持有价值10万的比特币，我告诉你比特币涨了1000%现在值100万，而且还会继续涨永远不用担心

And if your family had a 100,000 in Bitcoin in the same year, and I told you, oh, by the way, Bitcoin's up by a thousand percent and now you have a million dollars and it's probably gonna keep going up forever, and you don't have to worry

非黑即白那么简单。

about black and white like that.

事情不是非黑

It's not black and

像是黑色的

like is black

和白色的。

and white.

并不是。

It's not.

我正在看你们的玻璃门评价。

I'm looking at your glass door reviews.

我正在看玻璃门评价。

I'm looking at the glass door reviews.

不是所有人都同意。

Not everyone agrees.

比如说，肯定有缺点吧。

Like, surely there's downside to this.

我是说，不是所有人都同意。

I mean, not everyone agrees.

我我我正在看，我看到很多差评，每个伟大的公司都有很多差评，但并不是非黑即白所有人都同意。

I I I'm looking at I see a lot of bad reviews, and every great company has a lot of bad reviews, but it's not black and white that everyone agrees.

我是说，你们在Glassdoor上只有43%的好评率。

I mean, you have a 43% review on Glassdoor.

我知道Glassdoor不能反映全貌，但显然不是所有人都同意你的观点。

I know that Glassdoor isn't the full picture, but it's clear that not everyone agrees with your opinion.

而且

And

我想知道，这个统计数据只包含过去六个月的吗？

I wanna know Is is that is that only stats for the past six months?

因为我

Because I

想都别想

think No.

你不行

You no.

那里有上千条评价，而且一直挂在那里

There's a there's a thousand reviews, and it's been up there.

不是过去十年吗？

Isn't for the past decade?

但我可以按日期排序

But I can sort by date.

所以我可以告诉你任何数字，你可以设置任何筛选条件

So I can tell you a number by any you could just I could set it by any constraint.

现在总共是1000条评价，而且评分很低

Right now it's all, so 1,000 reviews, and it's a low review.

我...所以看起来不像

And I and it so it doesn't seem

所有人都同意你的观点

that everyone agrees with you.

你在看过去十年的数据吗？

Are you looking at the past ten years?

如果你回顾过去十年，公司曾有过收缩期，我们还裁过员

And if if you go back over the past ten years, we had a we had one point where the company was contracting, and we laid off employees.

所以不行

And so so No.

我看的都是2020年的评价

I'm looking at reviews all from 2020.

说实话，我觉得没人在乎Glassdoor上的评价

There's I think truth truth be told, no nobody gives a shit about Glassdoor reviews.

对吧？

Right?

比如，要么就是

Like, either that's