本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
将我的童年使命转变为改变世界的神经科技公司需要什么？
What does it take to transform my childhood mission into a world changing neurotechnology company?
致医生。
For Doctor.
拉美西斯·阿尔卡德，一切始于他八岁那年，叔叔在一场毁灭性事故中失去了双腿。
Ramses Alcade, it all started at the age of eight when his uncle lost both of his legs in a devastating accident.
那一刻决定了拉美西斯的人生道路。
That moment defined Ramses' path.
决心有朝一日帮助像叔叔那样的人，拉美西斯立志成为工程师并建造义肢。
Determined to one day help people like his uncle, Ramses set out to become an engineer and build prosthetic limbs.
但随着探索深入，他意识到仅恢复运动能力远远不够。
But as his journey unfolded, he realized that restoring movement wasn't enough.
关键在于恢复控制能力。
The key was to restore control.
在这个愿景的驱动下，拉美西斯转向了神经科学领域。
And driven by this vision, Ramses turned to neuroscience.
他的目标是创造出能够被大脑直接控制的神经假体。
His goal was to create neuroprosthetics that could be directly controlled by the brain.
然而在这个过程中，他遇到了一个更深刻的挑战。
Yet in the process, he encountered a deeper challenge.
我们对大脑的理解仍然非常有限。
Our understanding of the brain was still remarkably limited.
拉姆西斯没有接受这个现状，而是选择突破界限，改变现状。
Rather than accept that, Ramses chose to push the boundaries and change the status quo.
如今，他作为Neurable公司的CEO和联合创始人，这家开创性的神经科技公司致力于开发人类大脑的非凡潜力。
Today, he is the CEO and co founder of Neurable, a pioneering neurotechnology company dedicated to harnessing the extraordinary potential of the human brain.
Neurable正在重新构想我们如何生活、工作和娱乐，通过脑机接口（BCI）技术创造人与机器之间无缝的日常交互。
Neurable is reimagining how we live, work and play using brain computer interface or BCI technology to create seamless everyday interactions between humans and machines.
他们的使命不仅是开发实验室用的BCI，更要将其带入日常生活，帮助人们达到生产力、创造力和幸福感的新高度。
Their mission is not just to develop BCIs for the lab, but to bring them into daily life, empowering people to reach new levels of productivity, creativity and well-being.
怀着让BCI像智能手机一样普及的愿景，Neurable正在促成人类与技术之间更丰富、更个性化的对话，一种能通过人类全部意图来增强每种体验的对话。
With the vision of BCI becoming as ubiquitous as smartphones, Neurable is enabling a richer, more personalized dialogue between humans and technology, One that enhances every experience with the full spectrum of human intention.
在本期《神经载体实现不可能》节目中，Rauzy将分享他从制造假肢到开创下一代神经技术的个人与专业历程。
In this episode of Neurocarriers Doing the Impossible, Rauzy shares his deeply personal and professional journey from building prosthetics to pioneering the next generation of neurotechnology.
我们将深入探讨Neurable的创立与发展历程、扩展脑机接口面临的挑战，以及他与Travis Holman和Ms.的合作。
We dive in into founding and evolution of Neurable, the challenges of scaling brain computer interfaces, and his collaborations, including collaboration with Travis Holman and Ms.
从一位永不放弃实现不可能的创新者视角，探讨神经科技的未来、大脑长寿及大脑健康。
Space and the future of neurotech, brain longevity, brain health through the eyes of an innovator who never gave up on doing the impossible.
非常感谢Ramses参与我们的节目。
So thank you very much, Ramses, for joining us.
非常荣幸和荣幸能邀请您参加我们的播客。
It's a great pleasure and honor to have you on our podcast.
您能否自我介绍一下，并告诉我们的听众您是从世界哪个地区加入我们的？
Can you please introduce yourself and let our listeners know where you're joining us from, from what part of the world.
能来到这里深感荣幸，非常荣幸能参加您的节目。
It's a deep pleasure to be here, and and I'm honored to be on your show.
有人收听了节目，并在学生询问神经职业问题时推荐了很多学生来您这里。
Somebody who has listened and, sent a lot of students your way whenever they've asked NeuroCareers questions.
能来到这里真的非常棒。
It's it's really great to be here.
说来有趣，我们办公室在波士顿，但我现在其实人在瑞士。
Surprisingly, I mean, our office is in Boston, but I'm actually in Switzerland.
我来这里是为了与合作伙伴和投资者会面。
I'm here for meetings with partnerships and and investors.
我发觉随着公司发展，我在办公室的时间越来越少，更多是在外拓展业务和扩大规模。
I feel that the more we continue this company, the less I'm in the office and the more I am, like, doing business development and scaling things out.
但你知道，归根结底，即使遇到重重困难，能从事毕生梦想的事业仍让我深感幸运。
But it's you know, at the end of the day, I'm just truly blessed to be working on my life dream even when it gets really difficult.
能拥有这样的机会始终让我感到无比美好。
It's it's still always beautiful to know that that I have this opportunity.
是的。
Yes.
谢谢。
Thank you.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
你能简单介绍一下你们的产品吗？
And can you tell us a little bit about your product?
我想为我们的播客定个基调，因为这是你目前所处的阶段。
I would like us to set up a tone for our podcast because that's where you are at the moment.
是的。
Yes.
可以说这是你目前的高光时刻。
Your, I would say peak performance at this time.
是的。
Yes.
这就是你现在想向人们提供的产品，也是你此刻脑海中构想的。
It's the product that you are offering to people and wish you have right now on your head.
是的。
Yes.
现在就戴在这里。
Wearing it right here.
你能给我们介绍一下吗？
Can you tell us about it?
嗯。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我认为这是Nirables从第一天起最重要的使命之一，即如何实现无缝的日常脑机接口？
That's I think that's one of the the biggest parts of Nirables mission from day one, which is how do we make seamless everyday brain computer interfaces?
所以我戴的这副耳机实际上就是脑机接口设备。
And so the headphones I'm wearing actually are brain computer interfaces.
对吧？
Right?
我们实际上根本不生产耳机。
We actually don't build the headphones at all.
我们公司不做任何硬件。
We don't do any hardware at the company.
这个设备实际上来自一家名为Master Dynamics的公司。
What we do the this this device is actually from a company called Master Dynamics.
你可以看到那边有个小m标志。
You can see the little m right there.
但在侧面，你会看到那里写着'由Neurable AI驱动'。
But on the side, you'll see it says powered by Neurable AI right there.
本质上，我们做的是AI接口，使脑机接口能够无缝工作。
And, essentially, what we do is we do the AI interface that enables brain computer interfaces to work in a seamless way.
这项技术是我在密歇根大学攻读博士期间开发的，它真正解决了我认为阻碍脑机接口规模化的四个关键挑战。
So this is technology developed at the University of Michigan as part of my PhD work, and it really helps solve the four key challenges that I believe have prevented brain computer interfaces from scaling.
第一个挑战是，如果你想记录脑电图数据，通常必须将电极放置在最佳位置。
The first challenge is that if you want to record EEG data, you have to usually put the electrodes in the places that are optimal.
例如，如果你想获取额叶的αβ波焦点反应，就需要使用前额条带电极，这就是为什么你会看到许多基于前额的脑机接口。
So if you want a frontal lobe alpha beta focus response, for example, you want, like, a forehead strip, and that's why you see a lot of these forehead based brain computer interfaces.
另一个问题是信号质量差，通常需要使用湿凝胶电极。
The other issues is that there's poor signal, and so you'd normally wet gel electrodes.
除此之外，日常环境中的各种系统都会干扰信号。
On top of that, every day every day kind of systems disrupt the signal.
甚至这个房间里的灯光都可能干扰脑电图信号。
So even the lights in this room can can mess up an EEG.
最后一个问题是每个大脑都不同。
And then the last one is that every brain is different.
因此，如果你为某个人开发了脑电图解决方案，它可能对另一个人无效。
And so if you develop an EEG solution for one individual, it may not work on another individual.
过去十四年里，我们一直在努力改进并解决这四个问题，这个解决方案正是我们授权给硬件公司的核心技术。
So we've spent the last fourteen years working to essentially improve and tackle these four problems, and that solution is what we essentially license out to hardware companies.
我们的第一个合作伙伴是Masterdynamic，就是我现在戴的这个。
Our first partner is Masterdynamic, which is the one I'm wearing right now.
这些是内置EEG传感器的豪华耳机，但我们与多家公司合作。
They're these beautiful luxury headphones with EEG sensors on the inside, but we work with multiple companies.
未来2到5年内，你们会看到耳机、耳塞、AR眼镜、头盔等各种头戴设备内置神经接口，以及能解读脑数据并让开发者以稳健可扩展方式构建应用的操作系统。
And in the next two to five years, you're gonna start to see headphones, earbuds, AR glasses, helmets, really a whole bunch of head wearables that have neural interfaces inside of it and then the operating system that interprets that brain data and enables people to build applications in a very robust and scalable way.
这就是我们在Nurable所做的工作。
That's what we do at Nurable.
那你们的目标是什么？
And what is your goal?
你们将电极集成到日常可穿戴设备中，是想实现什么目标？让人们可以全天候佩戴吗？
What are you trying to accomplish with the adding those electrodes into just wearable technology that people can wear, you know, every day, all day long if they want?
是的。
Yeah.
至少这是我们的使命。
I mean, at least the mission.
我们有一个很棒的愿景视频，详细阐述了这个愿景，我建议大家去看看。
And, you know, we have an awesome vision video that really tackles a lot of that vision that I encourage everyone to take a look at.
但真正的目标是，我们如何创造一个让神经科技成为日常生活一部分的世界？
But really, the goal is how do we create this world where neurotechnology can be a part of your everyday life?
我们如何让神经科技变得习以为常？
How do we take neurotechnology for granted?
对吧？
Right?
非侵入式神经科技有着巨大潜力，可以追踪神经多样性症状（比如ADHD、阅读障碍）、神经退行性疾病（如ALS、阿尔茨海默症、帕金森症），甚至未来还能控制设备。
There's this huge promise of noninvasive neurotechnology to track things like neurodiverse conditions, so think like ADHD, dyslexia, track neurodegenerative diseases like ALS or Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and even in the future control devices.
而真正阻碍这些方法实现的，就是我刚才描述的四个问题。
And the things that have really prevented those those methods from happening are the four four problems that I that I described.
所以我们的使命就是解决这四个问题。
And so our mission has really been, how do we tackle those four problems?
当然，我们还有很长的路要走。
And, obviously, we still have a long way to go.
不过，尤其是那些更深入了解公司内部情况、熟悉我们正在进行的深度技术工作的人都知道，我们正在逐步实现目标。
But, you know, especially people who know the company more internally and know a lot of the deep tech work that we're doing, we're starting to get there.
我迫不及待想要迎接这样一个未来：神经科技成为你佩戴的每一件设备的标配。
And I can't wait to, you know, have this future where neurotech is just a part of every device you wear.
更重要的是，这将是一种无缝体验，完全摆脱当前消费级神经科技产品存在的种种问题。
And on top of that is a seamless experience that isn't fraught with all the issues that we have right now with consumer neurotech.
而这正是我们创立这家公司的核心理由之一。
And that's actually one of the key reasons that why we started this company.
记得在研究生院时，我就了解到——就像我之前说的——人们患有神经退行性疾病却浑然不觉的情况。
I remember when I was in grad school, you know, I learned about how, like I said, the you know, people were having these neurodegenerative diseases and and not even knowing about it.
当我看到市面上现有的消费级解决方案时，它们的信号质量实在差强人意。
And then when I saw the consumer solutions that are out there, they were just they were too poor in signal quality.
正是这一点真正揭示了公司成立的初衷，也决定了我们选择攻克的领域。
And so that's really what opened up the why behind the company and and and what we decided to tackle.
如今我们对未来的愿景就是：如何将这个理想转化为现实。
And now our vision for the future is how do we make that reality into something that's real.
对吧？
Right?
不是科幻小说里的科学幻想，而是转化为实际的工程技术，让人们可以在此基础上进行开发。
Not science or science fiction, but into actual engineering, something that people can build off of.
人们能用你们目前开发的这项技术做些什么呢？
And what can people do with this current technology developed?
我们现在能做的事情其实很多。
There's a lot that we can do right now.
目前公开的技术应用包括追踪专注度等指标，例如为个人创建生物反馈系统，在人们疲劳时提示休息时间，并帮助提升大脑表现。
What's publicly available is that we can track things like focus and then use it to, for example, create biofeedback for individuals, also to tell people when to take breaks when they're tired and help with with brain performance.
但真正强大的是我们正在构建的——正如我所说——一个操作系统层。
But what's really powerful is we're building, like I said, an an operating system layer.
就像人们使用的Neurable专注力应用程序那样，我们用于监测专注力的相同技术，正被军方用来检测士兵的疲劳状态。
So that same technology that we're using for focus, like, on the Neurable Focus app that people have used, that same technology is being used by the army to detect fatigue in soldiers.
我们的新加坡合作伙伴也在使用该技术为无人机驾驶员开发自适应训练系统。
It's being used by our Singapore partners for adaptive training for their drone pilots.
我们的合作伙伴MeSpace正在使用它来创建定制化环境。
It's being used by our partner, MeSpace, to create customized environments.
因此，每次我们创建一个新模块时，作为公司的目标就是如何尽可能多地创建这些模块，使其真正强大可靠，以便在此基础上构建脑机接口应用，然后让其他人开发解决方案。
And so every single time we create a new module, and our goal is, as a company, is how do you create as many of these modules as possible that makes it really robust and reliable to to build brain computer interface applications on top of, then let other people build solutions.
我们还有许多尚未公开的其他项目。
We have a lot of other things that we haven't disclosed.
我们唯一已公开但尚未提及的是应用程序中提供的脑健康功能。
The the only other thing we haven't we have disclosed is our brain health features that's available in the app.
这项技术最初是与美国陆军合作启动的，目前许多士兵正频繁经历爆炸超压事件。
It was started with a collaboration with the US Army where right now, a lot of soldiers are getting essentially blast over pressure events.
冲击波会对他们的大脑造成影响，而我们可以追踪这些损伤情况。
So shock waves are impacting their brain, and we can track the damage that happens to them.
同时我们还能监测他们的恢复进程。
And then we can also track the recovery.
同样的技术我们也应用在Nurbul健康应用中，可以实际追踪你的脑龄，观察各种因素对它的影响——比如饮酒、睡眠如何影响脑功能，还能监测与焦虑、平静状态、认知速度相关的信号，然后提供反馈，就像是给大脑用的Fitbit或Apple Watch。
Well, that same technology we're using in our Nurbul Health app side, where we can actually track your brain age, see how things affect it, so drinking, how sleep affects it, you know, be able to track signals that are associated to anxiety, to calmness, to cognitive speed, and then provide that as a feedback, kind of like a Fitbit for your brain or an Apple Watch for your brain.
目前公开的只有这两项功能，但平台还有更多我们尚未向公众展示的能力。
Those are the two publicly available capabilities, but there's so much more to the platform we haven't revealed to the public.
我已经迫不及待想要开始推出这些功能了。
And I can't wait to start rolling that out.
这简直太棒了。
That is absolutely amazing.
我想先从人们日常生活中最简单的应用场景开始。
And I would like to start with the most simple applications for people in their daily lives.
我昨天给学生们做了一场讲座。
I was giving a lecture yesterday to my students.
这学期我在教授认知心理学。
I'm teaching cognitive psychology this semester.
我们当时在讨论痴呆症和记忆丧失。
And we were talking about dementia, about memory loss.
当然，学生们的问题是：我们该如何预防这种情况？
And of course, the question from students was, how can we prevent that?
我们该怎么做才能保持大脑长期健康？
What can we do to have a long brain health?
我们如何才能让大脑健康地工作到70、80、90岁，毕竟现在人类寿命正在不断延长。
How can we stay with our brain healthy until we are 70, 80, 90, and now the life span is expanding.
那我们能做些什么呢？
So what can we do?
你们的产品如何在这方面发挥作用？
How is your product contributing to that?
它能有所贡献吗？
Can it contribute?
你觉得呢？
What do you think?
是的。
Yeah.
事实上，长寿群体正是我们正在开发的技术最大的客户基础之一。
And and actually, longevity is turns out to be one of the biggest customer bases for the technology that we're building.
因此我要说，这款主打动态的产品主要面向两大关键群体：关注专注力提升的人群和关注长寿的人群。
So I would say from this master dynamic product, two key areas, people who care about focus and people who care about longevity.
我们注意到人们对'脑健康寿命'这一概念的关注度正在上升。
And we're seeing this increased attention in something called brain span.
我们有长寿指标，衡量的是你能活多久。
So we we have longevity, which is how long you can live.
还有健康寿命指标，衡量的是你生命阶段中的健康程度。
You have health span, which is how healthy your the span of your life is.
对吧？
Right?
因为即使你能活到200岁，但如果只能坐轮椅活动受限，这样的生活真的有意义吗？
Because even if you could live to 200, if you're wheelchair bound and you can't do much, it's you know, is it really worth living?
对不对？
Right?
现在我们正见证'脑健康寿命'这一概念的转折点，它关注的是大脑在长期保持健康状态的能力。
And now we're seeing this inflection point of the concept called brain span, where it's how healthy your brain can be over a long period of time.
因为即便你活到200岁还有六块腹肌，如果患上阿尔茨海默症，那一切都毫无意义。
Because even if you're 200 years old and you have a six pack, if you have Alzheimer's, it really doesn't matter.
对吧？
Right?
因此，我们这项技术的核心在于——长久以来，人们已发现某些生物标志物与阿尔茨海默症或帕金森症等疾病相关联，比如α峰频率下降或θ波增加，具体取决于颞叶等脑区的活动变化。
And so, essentially, what we're doing with this technology is, you know, for quite some time, there there has been biomarkers associated to, for example, Alzheimer's or or or Parkinson's, for example, you know, drops in alpha peak frequency or increases in data theta depending on, like, temporal front frontal temporal regions, for example.
但关键问题是，要想实现这一点，你必须能够将今年的大脑状态与明年进行对比，从而观察整个时间线上的进展趋势。
But the main issue is that in order to do this, you have to be able to compare your brain this year versus next year and then see progression throughout that time line.
这在现有脑电图技术条件下根本无法实现。
That's just not possible with current EEG technology.
因为你去实验室做检测的话，大多数人一生中最多可能只做一两次脑电图。
Because you go to a lab, you at at most, somebody might get an EEG once or twice in their life.
对吧？
Right?
即便你能每年检测一次，要知道每天的神经活动都存在细微差异，而你只能获取某个时间点的单一快照数据。
And and even if you got it once a year, you know, it's it's the noise every single day is slightly different, and you're only getting one snapshot in time.
因此，当你将这项技术应用到可穿戴设备上，让人们能够每天佩戴时——就像我现在戴的这个设备一样，你就能每天追踪自己的脑部生物标志物了。
And so once you bring something to a wearable technology that people can wear every day, I have right now, this this device that I'm wearing right now, you can actually track your brain biomarkers every single day.
我可以观察到大脑发生的各种变化。
I can see different changes that happen to to my brain.
在不久的将来，我们将追踪这些与不同神经退行性疾病相关的生物标志物。
And in the near future, we're gonna be tracking some of these biomarkers associated different neurodegenerative conditions.
虽然我们不会做出任何诊断，但我们会告诉你：'嘿，
And while we're not gonna diagnose anything, we're gonna tell you, hey.
你的指标正朝着这个方向发展。
You're trending in this direction.
建议去看专业医生。'
Go see a, you know, medical professional.
对吧？
Right?
这意味着你可以去看专业医生，做核磁共振检查，获取比脑电图更高分辨率的检测，从而得到准确诊断。
And then that means that you can go see a professional, get an MRI, get something that's higher resolution in EEG, get a correct diagnosis.
但我们的使命是如何确保没有人会再对自己的大脑状况感到意外？
But our mission is how do we make it so that nobody can be surprised by their brain again?
对吧？
Right?
我认为，这正是日常可穿戴设备能实现的强大功能，这是传统脑电图技术无法做到的。
And that is, I think, the powerful thing that an everyday wearable enables that we haven't been able to do with EEG traditionally.
是啊。
Yeah.
这简直太棒了。
That's absolutely amazing.
这让我想起自己用智能手机监测睡眠模式的经历。
And it reminds me how I was using my smartphone to look at my sleep patterns.
没错。
Yes.
当时我通过追踪睡眠数据来调整生活习惯。
So I was tracking my sleep and then adjusting things.
这样你就能看到自己的睡眠深度、各段睡眠时长、总体睡眠时间，以及期间的呼吸频率和心率。
So you can see how deep is your sleep, how long are those periods of sleep, in general, how much sleep do you get, what is the respiration rate, heart rate during that time.
根据这些反馈，你可以做出调整来改善睡眠质量，这非常重要。
And based on feedback, you can make adjustments and improve your sleep, which is very important.
你们开发的技术会有哪些类似功能呢？
What would be the parallel with the technology that you developed?
我们能追踪什么？
What we can track?
我们可以利用哪些类型的数据来提升大脑表现？
What type of data can we use to improve our brain performance?
是的。
Yeah.
其实如果你允许我共享屏幕，我可以给你展示些非常酷的东西。
Actually, if you let me share the screen, I can show you something really cool.
接下来我会分享一些我的个人数据。
So I'm gonna share some of my personal data.
这是该应用的早期测试版。
And this is the early beta version of the app.
现在它变得更容易理解了。
Now it's gotten a lot easier to understand.
比如这里展示的是我的大脑年龄报告。
But this right here, for example, is my brain age report.
我每天都会收到一份。
I get it every, you know, every single day.
基本上每天一份。
Essentially, I get one.
你可以看到我的大脑年龄在30岁左右。
And you can see my brain age is around 30.
这对我来说很典型。
That's pretty typical for me.
在下方这里，你实际上可以看到不同的反应指标。
And then down here, you can actually see different responses.
所以δ波通常与困倦相关。
So delta is usually associated to sleepiness.
β波则通常与认知速度和准备状态相关。
Beta is usually associated to, like, cognitive speed and and readiness.
这是在西南偏南大会之前的情况。
And so this was before a conference called South by Southwest.
我去参加西南偏南大会时，没有遵循健康作息——比如早睡、合理饮食等等，反而开始在社交酒会上饮酒，葡萄酒之类的，很常见的饮品。
So I went to South by Southwest, and instead of following my healthy patterns of going to sleep early, you know, eating right, etcetera, I decided to start drinking alcohol at these mixers, wine, you know, pretty typical stuff.
没什么特别的，你知道的。
Nothing nothing, you know, significant.
反正我也不是酗酒的人。
I'm not a heavy drinker anyways.
然后我开始熬夜。
And then I start staying up late.
三天之内，我的大脑年龄就从30岁飙升到了50岁。
And over three days, my brain age starts going from 30 to 50.
对吧？
Right?
然后你可以在这里看到我的生物标志物，比如δ波超出了正常范围，就是这个方框所示的区域。
And you can then see my biomarkers down here associated to, for example, delta going above what's considered normal, which is this box.
这意味着我需要更多睡眠。
And so it means that I need more sleep.
接着你能看到我的β波反应低于它们的正常范围方框，这表明我的大脑准备度下降了。
And then you can see my beta responses below their boxes, which means that my brain readiness has gone down.
当我真正开始恢复正常的健康习惯后，你可以看到数值又回落到29岁水平。
And once I actually start going back to my normal healthy habits, you can see it goes back down to 29.
对吧？
Right?
所以这就是我说的那种实时监测的意思。
And so that's kind of, like, what I mean by, like, real time.
你可以直观看到日常行为改变对大脑健康的影响。
You know, you can start to see how the changes you do day by day impact your brain health.
但我认为更有价值的是，这次我们还能看到与更长时间段相关的数据。
But what I think is even more powerful is that this time, now we can actually see things associated to longer time periods too.
举个例子，这是我的周度数据分解。
So for example, here's my week breakdown.
蓝色部分代表我的基准线。
Blue is what is considered my baseline.
而目前我们拥有的是被称为'病后治疗'的体系。
And right now we have this system called sick care.
就是你生病时才去看医生。
When you go to the doctor because you're sick.
对吧？
Right?
如果未来我们因为偏离基准线就能去看医生呢？
What if in the future we could go to the doctor because we get changes from our baseline?
在这个案例中，红点代表我从西南偏南音乐节恢复的状态。
So in this case, this red dot represents my me recovering from South by Southwest.
我终于回到了我的基准区间。
I finally go back into my baseline zone.
太棒了。
Awesome.
然后我注意到从周日到周一，我所有的指标都开始异常波动。
And then I noticed that all my markers start going crazy Sunday through Monday.
所以我没有继续按部就班地生活，而是意识到这种情况正在发生。
So instead of, you know, just continuing to move forward with my life, I realized that this happening.
于是我去了医院，你猜怎么着？
Is So I go to the doctor, and guess what?
我感染了新冠。
I got COVID.
对吧？
Right?
在出现任何症状的四天前，就已经能检测到异常了。
Four days before I had any symptoms, was able to detect that.
而且已经有人给我发消息，说他们也在出现症状前就检测到了新冠，或者检测到其他神经系统状况，比如偏头痛之类的，以及其他通常会影响个人的问题。
And we're already getting people messaging me about them also detecting COVID before they feel sick or other types of neuro conditions, for example, migraines, you know, and and other things that typically affect individuals.
但你可以开始看到，通过使用日常设备，你就能着手解决许多关于大脑的关键问题，甚至有时在你对身体发生的情况产生任何生理反应之前，就能了解自己的感受。
But you can start to see that by having an everyday device, you can start to tackle a lot of these key, you know, questions about your brain and how you're feeling even sometimes before you have any, physical reaction to what's occurring.
嗯。
Yep.
这让我想到另一个问题，昨天我们和学生们进行了一次非常精彩的讨论。
And which brings me to another question that our students well, yesterday, we had such a wonderful conversation.
我们问：能否预防认知衰退？
We're asking, can we prevent cognitive decline?
在这种情况下，我们就能开始看到红色预警区域出现。
So in this case, we would be able to start seeing that red zone appearing.
是的。
Yes.
然后我们可以开始追问：好吧，这究竟是从哪里来的？
And we can start questioning, okay, where is it coming from?
我没有得新冠。
I don't have COVID.
我没有这个。
I don't have this.
我没有那个。
I don't have that.
你知道，是不是我的大脑出了什么问题？
You know, is something happening with my brain?
正是如此。
Exactly.
更好的研究，更早的研究，你知道，直接的结果。
Better research, earlier research, you know, direct results.
对吧？
Right?
而且也许...也许我们的目标并不是要解决它。
And and maybe weren't weren't our goal is not to solve it.
要知道，这是一种测量设备。
You know, this is a measuring device.
对吧？
Right?
但如果你让人们能在更近的距离内进行测量，就能让他们开展另一种科学研究。
But if you give people the tools to measure it in closer proximity, it enables them to do a different kind of science.
除此之外，与其试图解决诸如帕金森和阿尔茨海默症这类问题——目前这些疾病的标准治疗方案都是在发病十年后才介入。
And then on top of that, instead of trying to solve a problem like, right now, the standard of care for Parkinson's and and Alzheimer's is ten years into the disease.
如果是在患病一年后才进行治疗呢？
What if you do it one year into the disease?
对吧？
Right?
礼来公司有款新药，如果能在早期及时干预，可以大幅延缓病情发展多年。
There's that new Eli Lilly drug that if you capture it early enough, can push Alzheimer's away many more years.
对吧？
Right?
它的效果很强大。
It's powerful.
但如果发现得太晚就不行了。
But not if you capture it late.
所以通过早期发现，我们也能将这些疾病推迟到更晚的阶段。
So by capturing it early, we can push off these diseases for much later as well.
而这正是日常科技所能实现的。
And that's really the capability of everyday technology.
是的。
Yes.
目前人们正在用这个设备做什么应用？
What, applications that people are using the device right now?
普通用户。
Individual people.
我记得你在一些播客中谈到过进行冥想。
I know that on some podcasts you were talking about doing meditation.
我想那是你举的例子。
I think that was your example.
是的。
Yes.
你可以观察冥想的效果，甚至不同的应用程序能帮助你进入更深层的冥想状态。
And you can look at the effect of meditation and even different applications that can help you to get into more meditative state.
没错。
Yes.
什么方法对你有效，什么无效。
And what works for you and what doesn't.
因为冥想是非常个人化的。
Because meditation is very individual.
是的。
Yes.
它可以用于不同目的。
And it can be used for different things.
所以真的要根据你的需求来选择。
So really to pick up what you want.
还有哪些其他应用呢？
And what are other applications?
是的。
Yes.
因为人们很有创造力。
Because people are inventive.
而且我认为你也在支持这种创造性地使用设备的方式，就像我在你Instagram上注意到的那样。
And I think you are also supporting that creative approach to using your device, as I noticed in your Instagram, for example.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
我的Instagram上有好多疯狂的内容。
My Instagram has so many crazy things.
踩火行走、驾驶，你知道的，还有汽车模拟器之类的。
Walking on fire, driving, you know, simulators in cars.
对，就是这样。
Like yeah.
而且我觉得，将科技融入日常生活最强大的地方之一，就是人们可以进行各种实验。
And and and that's, I think, one of the most powerful things about bringing technology into the everyday, which is people can be experimental.
对吧？
Right?
他们实际上可以看到这些东西如何从根本上影响他们的品牌。
They can actually see how these things essentially impact their brands.
我们已经有太多杰出人士与我们分享了他们的故事。
And we've had so many incredible individuals share with us stories.
比如他们测试某天喝咖啡与另一天的区别，或者尝试不同类型的休息方式。
For example, how where they tested out drinking coffee one day versus another, or, you know, they tried different types of breaks.
比如刷Instagram对比散步，或者做俯卧撑、冥想之类的。
So scrolling on Instagram versus going for a walk versus, you know, doing push ups or meditation.
人们正在做的很多事情真的非常有创意。
Like, there's so many things that people are doing that is that is really creative.
我简单分享一下我的一个故事，让大家看看我是怎么使用它的。
And and I'll just share one of my stories real quick just so that people can see kinda, like, how I used it.
这其实就是你提到的那个关于冥想的故事——通常我冥想时会进入深度冥想状态（显示为蓝色），然后又会脱离这种状态。
So this was actually the meditation story, I think, that you were highlighting, which is normally when I meditate, I go into deep meditation, which is blue, and then I get out of it.
对我来说冥想实在太令人沮丧了。
And it's it's so frustrating for me to meditate.
你根本想象不到。
You have no idea.
感觉就像我永远无法真正进入状态。
It's like, I feel like I can never really get into the zone.
等到可能刚开始进入状态时，却已经又出来了。
And then by the time maybe I start getting into it, I'm already out.
对吧？
Right?
然后我去参加了迪帕克·乔普拉的冥想课程。
And then I went to a meditation session with Deepak Chopra.
之后观察我的冥想状态，发现全程都处于深度冥想。
And looking at my meditation after that, like, deep the entire time.
对吧？
Right?
我当时就想，哇。
And I was like, woah.
这太不可思议了。
This is crazy.
就像，你知道吗，看来我并不是不会冥想。
Like, this is you know, like, I guess I don't suck at meditating.
我只是需要一个导师。
I just need a coach.
对吧？
Right?
这对我来说真的很有启发性，因为它让我第一次能够利用数据来增强我的决策能力。
And so this was really inspirational for me because it allowed me for the first time to use data to feel empowered on my decision making.
于是我下载了大约八个不同的冥想应用，开始尝试不同的应用，其中大多数都没什么效果，直到我发现了一个叫'深度冥想'的应用。
So I downloaded about eight different meditation apps, and I started experimenting with different ones, and most of them didn't work until I found one called Getting Deep.
这个应用对我很有效。
And that was the one that worked for me.
对吧？
Right?
可能对其他人来说适合的应用会不同，但如果没有这种工具，我可能永远找不到适合自己的方法，因为每个人的大脑都不一样。
They might be different for another individual, but, like, I would not have been able to find the right tool for me because every brain is different.
人们受到的影响各不相同，如果没有这种日常设备，我根本无法亲自验证这些效果。
People are affecting different ways without having some sort of everyday device that I could literally check things myself.
对吧？
Right?
最重要的是，这些数据不是那种满屏疯狂跳动的脑电图线。
And and most importantly, the data wasn't crazy EEG lines everywhere.
非常简单明了。
Very straightforward.
我是否处于深度冥想状态？
Am I in deep meditation or not?
就这么简单。
Simple as that.
好的。
Okay.
我很好奇。
I'm very curious.
在你看来，迪帕克·乔普拉指导的那次冥想与你之前做过的其他冥想有什么不同？
What was in your opinion different when you were coached by Deepak Chopra in that meditation compared with the other meditations you've done before?
这是个好问题。
That's a good question.
我...我不确定我是否花时间深入思考过这个问题。
I I don't know if I've taken the time to really think deeply about that.
你知道吗？
You know?
更多是我的心态问题，而且现在通常还是这样。
It was more my mindset was and it's still usually the case.
这更像是个工程问题而非科学问题。
It's more of an engineering than a science question.
你明白吗？
You know?
就像是，哦，我该怎么解决这个问题，而不是为什么会出现这个问题？
It's like it's like, oh, how do I solve this problem versus, like, why is this problem happening?
并且，让我更深入地理解它。
And, like, let me understand it more deeply.
我不知道为什么迪帕克的方法有效而其他人的不行，但我认为意识到自己能够冥想本身就很有力量，对吧？然后探索其中的解决方案。
I I don't know why Deepak worked and and others didn't, but I think just having the realization that I can meditate was really empowering, right, And exploring the solutions for it.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yep.
我完全同意。
I absolutely agree.
这些都是个别案例。
So those are individual examples.
但据我了解，你们也在为研究提供这款开发的工具。
But as I understand that you are also offering this tool you developed for research.
是这样吗？
Is that correct?
也许你可以举例说明人们如何能使用——或许已经在将其用于研究目的。
Maybe you can provide some examples how people can use and maybe already are using it for research purposes.
是的，当然可以。
Yeah, absolutely.
应用场景非常广泛——从国防领域用于监测肩部疲劳预防事故，到实验室用它来理解个体注意力或追踪不同神经认知指标。
There's so many from defense use cases to track shoulder fatigue, for example, to prevent accidents, to laboratories essentially using it to understand, you know, focus of individuals or track different neurocognitive markers.
但我认为总体而言，这是首次能够实现大规模可靠的脑电图检测。
But I think the general theme is that this is the first time that you can do reliable EEG at scale.
对吧？
Right?
比如，我们接触的许多实验室过去通常会让受试者到场就座，然后进行认知测试或类似P300这类实验任务。
So for example, we're meeting a lot of labs that that would, for example, bring somebody in, sit them down, and then they would run a cognitive test or some sort of session where they would have them do, like, p three hundreds, other types of use cases like that.
而且他们一次只能测试一个人。
And they would have one person at a time.
对吧？
Right?
但现在他们可以让50个人同时在家完成这些测试。
But now what they can do is they can have 50 people doing this at home.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们正目睹这场巨大变革——这些实验室来自各个领域，真的遍地开花。
And so we're seeing this huge change where a lot of these labs and and really, they're they're coming from everywhere.
我其实一个月前在哈萨克斯坦，那里有个实验室从我们系统购买了四套研究设备。
I was actually in Kazakhstan, like, a month ago, and there was a lab that had bought, like, four research kits from our system.
对吧？
Right?
我当时就很惊讶。
And I was like, wow.
我都不知道他们已经在进行这种规模的神经技术研究了。
Like, what is I didn't even know that that they were, you know, doing neurotech at this scale here.
所以我们真的开始看到很多实验室转向规模化研究。
And and so we're really starting to see a lot of these labs move to at scale.
而且我们的很多算法还能消除干扰信号，所以走路时也能正常工作。
And and a lot of our algorithms also remove artifacts, so it works while walking.
比如日常生活场景、玩游戏、用电脑工作、散步时观察不同事物对大脑的影响。
So, you know, everyday situations, gaming, working on your computer, you know, going for walks to see how different things impact your brain.
这种可扩展性正是我们技术为众多研究者开辟的新领域，而过去他们只能使用大型系统。
That scalability is really the niche that our technology has enabled for a lot of researchers, where in the past, they would have to use large scale systems.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
人们无法把它带回家。
People can't take it home.
他们无法自行安装等等。
They can't set it up themselves, etcetera.
是的。
Yes.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
我同意你的观点。
I agree with you.
你认为这如何改变整体研究？我们通过神经技术获得的数据现在能够在真实生活场景中佩戴设备进行研究。
And how do you think this is changing in general research and the data that we can get from neurotechnologies are having the possibility to wear it and do studies in real life settings.
这能为研究者提供哪些新见解？
What new insights it can provide to researchers?
没错。
Yeah.
我们目前已经看到了很多。
So many that we've seen so far.
实际上，已经有一些相关论文发表了。
And, actually, there's some papers coming out that they published it.
但这项技术真正为研究者带来的三大突破之一，就是能够进行大规模研究。
But the the three things that have really this technology has enabled for researchers is one is they can do studies at scale.
比如现在，一项研究可能只涉及10到30人。
So right now, for example, if you did a study, you might do 10 to 30 people.
对吧？
Right?
就在这个月，我们刚接到一份10,000台的采购订单。
We just got a purchase order, you know, this month for 10,000 units.
想象一下用10,000人进行研究。
So imagine doing studies with 10,000 people.
对吧？
Right?
现在还能实时进行。
It's also now real time.
你可以在他们在家时实时捕捉数据。
You can literally capture the data in real time while they're at home.
所以，你不仅能观察到这如何同时影响数千乃至最终数百万的人群——这是脑电图技术从未实现过的，而且我们还能实时观测到各种影响变化。
So, you know, not only are you seeing how this affects thousands and eventually millions of people at a time, which is something we've never been able to do with EEG, but then we can see how things are affected in real time.
但最强大的是，我们现在能够纵向观察正在发生的变化。
But the most powerful thing is now we can see things that are happening longitudinally.
对吧？
Right?
这样我们就能逐日、逐周、逐月观察人们大脑的变化，并将所有数据进行比较。
So we can see changes in people's brains day by day, week by week, month by month, compare all that together.
以前，比如我们研究阿尔茨海默症患者时，只能将健康对照组与已确诊的阿尔茨海默症患者组进行比较。
Previously, for example, when we were looking at individuals who had Alzheimer's, you would compare a healthy control system versus a group of people who've already been identified with Alzheimer's.
这中间存在断层。
There's a gap there.
比如，你看不到进展过程。
Like, you don't see progression.
对吧？
Right?
这里存在信息缺口，本可用于预测一个人是否正朝那个方向发展。
There's a gap of information there that could be used to predict as a person is trending in that direction.
现在这些只是你可以随身携带的耳机。
Now these are just headphones that you take with you.
要知道，我们合作的这些实验室里确实就在用它们。
You know, they're literally in these labs we're working with.
他们直接把这些设备发给人们使用。
They're just giving them to people.
好的。
Alright.
拿好这个。
Have this.
分享你的数据。
Share your data.
对吧？
Right?
然后你可以想象，在几天、几周、几个月甚至几年里，我们开始看到这种进展发生在不同影响因素之间。
And then you can imagine over days, weeks, months, even years, we're starting to see that progression happen in between what are different things that can be impacted.
这就是日常可穿戴设备的真正强大之处。
And that's the really powerful thing about everyday wearable devices.
它是规模化、实时、纵向的数据，这在脑电图研究中从未实现过。
It's scale, real time, longitudinal data, which has never been possible with EEG.
我是说，你知道有多少研究做过一万人规模的脑电图研究吗？
I mean, how many studies do you know that have done a 10,000 person EEG study?
对吧？
Right?
这种事情根本就没发生过。
That's just that's hasn't happened.
而这将逐渐成为常态。
And that's gonna start to become a norm.
简直太棒了。
Absolutely amazing.
让我们简单回顾一下这项可穿戴神经技术是如何发展起来的。
Let's provide a little bit of a perspective of how this wearable neurotech technology developed.
我知道你们最初使用的是传统的凝胶式脑电图系统。
I know that you started with a conventional gel based EEG system.
是的。
Yes.
那是在早期的时候。
Back in the day.
我记得你们当时是在为脑瘫患者工作。
And I think you were working with people with the cerebral palsy.
没错。
Yes.
这就是你经历多次迭代才达到现在这个阶段并开发出这款产品的地方。
That's where you And you went through quite a few iterations to get to the place where you are and to this product.
但你能稍微带我们了解一下这个过程吗？
But can you maybe guide us a little bit through this process?
我特别好奇的是，我们如何能在最小覆盖范围的情况下，仍然获得足够关于大脑的信号来追踪所有这些进展。
And what I am very curious about, how we can still have a signal that provides us enough information about the brain to track all this progress, but with a minimal coverage.
尤其是只用很少的电极，而且主要分布在耳朵周围。
And especially with the just, you know, not so many electrodes and around the ears.
是的。
Yes.
我们习惯听到它们被放在头上。
We're used to hearing them on the head.
没错。
Yeah.
而这里，一、二、三、四个。
And here, one, two, three, four.
是的
Yes.
所以每边八个
So eight on each side.
对
Yes.
嗯
Mhmm.
总共60个
60 in total.
你能给我们讲讲这个吗？
So can you tell us a bit about that?
好的
Yeah.
我认为这是我们公司最大的竞争优势之一
That's, I think, one of the biggest competitive advantages of our company.
你知道吗？
You know?
现在很多公司，尤其是在DCI领域，会筹集大量资金。
What a lot of companies do right now, especially in the DCI field, is they raise a ton of money.
两年后他们发布产品，结果却让人失望。
They release a product two years later, and that product disappoints people.
对吧？
Right?
我们采取了完全不同的方法。
We've taken a completely different approach.
我们首先专注于纯软件，而不是急于推出产品。
Instead of trying to release a product, first of all, we're software only.
我们的目标始终是解决那四个根本性问题。
And our goal has been how do we solve those four fundamental problems.
对吧？
Right?
我们实际上是从2011年开始使用湿电极系统的。
And we essentially started this in 2011 using wet electrode systems.
我们的目标一直是如何解决那四个基本问题？
And the goal has been how do we solve those four fundamental problems?
尽管这项技术始于2011年，但我们花了这么长时间才发布产品，是因为我们实际上一直在努力缩小设备体积——从湿电极128个到22个干电极，再到6个干电极，最终在2019年实现耳机形态。
And the reason it's taken us so long to release a product even though this technology started in 2011 is because we've actually worked our way down to smaller and smaller form factors, right, from wet electrodes, 128 to 22 dry electrodes, to six dry electrodes, to eventually headphones in 2019.
而现在，我们拥有了更多形态的设备。
And then now, you know, we have even more form factors.
但主要目标不是发布产品，而是改进技术，以尽可能保留信号质量，同时仍能提取出优质数据。
But the main goal here has been not to release a product, but to improve the technology so that we retain as much of the signal quality as we can and still be able to pull out good data.
所有这些都得益于我们团队过去十四年构建的先进人工智能技术。
And all this has been done with, you know, advanced AI techniques that our team built over the last fourteen years.
这项技术经过了大量验证。
And there's a ton of validation on the tech.
我们已经完成了空军和陆军为期两年的技术验证。
You know, we we've gone through two years of air force and and army validations.
还有一份白皮书将我们与这个22电极系统进行了对比。
There's also a white paper that compares us to this 22 electrode system.
从那份白皮书中可以看到，由于我们过去十四年开发的这些先进AI技术，在观察相同反应时，我们能够达到约90%的相关系数——具体数值取决于我们观察哪些指标。
And you can see from that white paper that looking at the same responses due to these advanced AI techniques that we developed over the last fourteen years, we're able to match about 90% correlation coefficient depending on which markers we're looking at.
例如P300电位、听觉稳态电位，以及睁眼闭眼反应与全头皮脑电图数据的对比。
For example, p three hundreds, auditory steady state potentials, you know, eyes open, eyes closed responses to what a full scalp EEG would be.
而我们实现这一点的方法其实相当简单。
And and the way we do that is is fairly simple.
嗯，虽然说起来简单，但本质上就是四点。
Well, I mean, it's simple to say, but it's essentially this.
这是我们开发的四项知识产权成果。
It's four pieces of IP that we've developed.
其中一项是我在读研期间开发的，它本质上能帮助我们提升脑电信号的信噪比。
One of them that was developed during my grad school years, which essentially enables us to boost the signal to noise EEG.
另一项技术让我们仅通过耳周记录就能推断整个头部的数据。
Another one that enables us to infer data across the whole head even though we're just recording around the ears.
能够实时去除伪迹，并实现持续校准和质量保证。
Being able to remove real time artifacts, and then also to enable continuous calibration and QA.
对吧？
Right?
这四项知识产权正是解决这些问题的关键所在。
These four pieces of IP are what have solved these issues right here.
我们不需要传感器处于完美位置。
We don't need sensors in the perfect location.
我们帮助解决信噪比问题。
We help solve the signal to noise.
我们消除了干扰日常脑电信号的噪声。
We remove the signals that disrupt everyday EEG signals.
而我们的持续校准系统让我们能够动态重新校准，从而适用于不同大脑。
And our continuous calibration system enables us to essentially recalibrate dynamically so it can work across different brains.
比如，如果我把这副耳机给你用，几秒钟内它就能在你身上达到和我使用时同样的效果。
Like, if if I took this headphone and I gave it to you, within a few seconds, it would work just as well as it does on you as it does on me.
这就是为什么每当人们看到或使用我们的演示时，他们能体验到与传统消费级神经技术截然不同的一一对应关系——后者通常只能显示一条到处波动的线条，让人摸不着头脑。
And that's why whenever you people see or use our demos, you know, they they see a one to one correlation of what they're experiencing versus what you would traditionally see from a lot of consumer neurotech, which is a line that balances all over the place, and people are like, don't know.
这玩意儿管用吗？
Is this working?
这玩意儿是不是坏了？
Is this not working?
懂我意思吗？
You know?
这也是为什么我们不需要做硬件。
And that's also why we don't have to do hardware.
因为在我们看来，做硬件往往意味着没人愿意直接购买你的技术。
Because, you know, in our opinion, you do hardware because no one's willing to buy your technology.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们选择授权软件方案——当信号质量足够优秀时，厂商们自然会把技术整合到他们的实际产品中。
So we, instead, license our software because people were able to boost the signal high enough that people wanna integrate it into their actual products.
对吧？
Right?
尽管这条路漫长，十四年之久，但正是这条道路让我们真正做到了——我相信——打破了消费级脑机接口领域普遍停滞的现状。
And that's that pathway, though though long, fourteen years, right, is is what has enabled us to really, what I believe, is buck the trend of where a lot of BCI at the consumer scale have been stuck.
这就是为什么我们合作推出的这款消费产品能获得如此爆发式的增长。
And that's why we're getting such explosive growth with this consumer product that we partnered to release.
是的。
Yes.
感谢你的详细解释。
Thank you for explaining that.
因为我第一次看到产品发展历程图时很好奇，2011年那里有个GTEC脑电帽，还有其它公司的产品，我当时就在想这之间有什么关联？
Because when I first time looked at that picture with the progression of the product, I was curious because I saw like a GTEC cap, yes, in 2011, and then other And companies' I was thinking how is it related?
对。
Yes.
你们是在合作吗？
Are you working together?
合作方式是什么？
What's collaborating?
但现在我明白了你们是在开发软件，而且基本上可以适配任何产品，我的理解对吗？
But now I understand you are building software and you can use it basically with any products as I understand.
对吗？
Yes?
没错。
Exactly.
完全正确。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
我们完全不涉及硬件制造。
We don't build any hardware whatsoever.
我们发现大多数硬件设备——尽管很多公司宣称他们的传感器是最好的——实际上信噪比差异微乎其微。
We found that most hardware, even though a lot of companies tell us that their sensor is the best, we we found that there's really just minuscule differences in signal to noise.
因此我们真正专注的是如何利用AI改进软件，以解决这四个关键挑战。
And so what we've really focused on is how do we improve the software using AI to to solve these four key challenges.
而且你知道，我们最初不得不从大型凝胶帽开始。
And, you know, we had to start with large gel caps.
那就是我们原始模型的来源。
That's where our original models are from.
然后逐步改进。
And then work our way down.
确实花了长达十四年的发展历程，才能达到我们现在
And it really took that long fourteen year progression to be able to get to the state that we're
的状态。
in now.
是的。
Yeah.
虽然电极尺寸和数量都缩小了，但仍能接收到你们使用的有效信号。
The downsize and the number of electrodes, but still receive that meaningful signal that you are using.
确实如此。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
非常有趣。
Very interesting.
非常有趣。
Very interesting.
那么你们从大脑获取的信息呢？
And what about the information that you are getting from the brain?
是的，就像我简单提到的，我们都习惯了头上布满电极。
Yes, like I briefly mentioned, we are all used to having electrodes all over the head.
是的，耳朵是我们最不会放置电极的地方，除非是作为参考电极。
Yes, ears would be the least place we would place any electrodes unless they're reference.
是的，我们会放在乳突上。
Yes, we would place on mastoids.
那是什么信号？
What is that signal?
我们能否从耳朵周围收集到任何能反映大脑活动的信息？
Is there anything that can tell us about the brain that we can collect from around the ear?
是的，当然可以。
Yes, of course.
答案是肯定的。
The answer is yes.
但那究竟是什么？
But what what is that?
是的。
Yes.
我们收集的是什么信息？
What what information are we collecting?
没错。
Yeah.
不过在我回答这个问题之前，我想先回答一个与之相关的问题，我认为这是个很好的切入点：为什么我们决定采用耳部周围或内部的方案？
And I think before I answer that, though, I wanna answer a question that I think is tied to that, that I think is a really good start, which is like, why did we decide to do a round or inside the ear?
对吧？
Right?
尤其是当前额部位信号采集效果很好，头顶部位信号采集效果也很好的情况下。
And especially when forehead is very good for signal, you know, top of head is very good for signal.
关键在于我们公司始终坚持'不同凡想'的理念。
And the thing is our our company very much is on the premise of always thinking different.
对吧？
Right?
因为很明显，当前普遍采用的方法都没有奏效。
Because clearly what is what everyone is doing hasn't worked.
对吧？
Right?
如果那些方法有效的话，相关技术早就实现规模化了。
If if it has worked, they would have already been scaled technology.
比如说，神经科技问题早就该解决了。
Like, Neurotech would already been solved.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们审视现有的解决方案，然后刻意不去采用那些方法。
So we look at what solutions are out there, and we purposefully don't do that.
明白吗？
Right?
这是个非常合乎逻辑的选择。
That's it's a it's a very logical choice.
举个例子，我们其实已经开发出使用镜框顶部电极的原型机，还有环绕耳朵的尖刺电极等等。
So, for example, we knew, and we actually have prototypes where we're using, you know, electrodes at the the top of the rim, or we have spiky electrodes around the ear, etcetera.
但我们决定不采用这些方案。
But we said, let's not do that.
我们应该先问问客户他们真正想用什么。
Let's ask the customer what they would use.
所以我们真的创建了一些虚假网站，让人们可以购买神经科技产品。
And so we actually created fake websites where people could go buy a neurotech product.
我们让人们访问这些网站，实际上是为了获取他们购买或不购买的原因信息。
And we had people go to those websites and essentially give us information as to why they would and would not buy it.
结果发现，他们唯一愿意购买的产品是看起来像普通耳机的那种。
And it turns out that the only product that they would buy was a product that looked like a normal pair of headphones.
你知道，如果这里有尖刺，他们就会担心：如果我摔倒了，会不会被刺伤？
You know, if there was spikes up here, they were like, what if I fall down and it hurts me and it stabs me?
我们就想，嗯，它们很柔软。
And we're like, well, they're soft.
你完全不用担心这个。
You don't have to worry about it.
他们还是说，我可不想头发里有任何尖刺的东西。
They're like, still, I don't want anything spiky in my hair.
对吧？
Right?
我们尝试了耳朵周围不同材质的设计和其他类似方案。
We we, you know, we tried different materials around the ears or other things like that.
本质上，我们的选择是由客户需求驱动的，而非什么对脑电图技术最有利。
And and essentially, our choice was guided by what does the customer want, not what is best for EEG.
是的。
Yeah.
我们的目标是：如果我们打造客户想要的产品，并赌上我们能解决技术难题，就能突破 adoption curve 的最大障碍。
And our goal was, okay, if we build what customers want and we take the gamble that we can solve that problem, then that tackles the biggest issue in getting this adoption curve to happen.
如果失败，至少我们全力以赴了，结果如何都坦然接受。
And if we don't and we fail on the way there, then I guess, you know, we did our best and it is what it is.
所以我们把公司成败押在'打造客户愿意买的产品，而非方便我们的产品'这个理念上。
So we we bet the company's success on saying that we're gonna build what the customer would buy, not what's gonna work for us.
这个过程耗费了很长时间。
And that took a long time.
直到2023年我们才真正推出这项技术。
I mean, we didn't get this technology out until 2023.
对吧？
Right?
从2017年到2023年。
That's from 2017 to 2023.
这就是我们解决这些问题所花费的时间。
That's how long it took to try to solve these problems.
对吧？
Right?
然后验证脑电图信号是否良好。
And then validate that there was good EEG.
它在有头发的情况下如何工作？
How does it work with hair?
如果人们戴上眼镜怎么办？
What about if people put on glasses?
类似这样的变量我们不得不解决太多太多了。
Like, there's so many of these variables that we had to tackle.
但这个'为什么'非常重要，因为我们想确保发布的产品是消费者愿意购买的。
But the why was very important because we wanna make sure we release a product people will buy.
这才是最重要的事情。
That's the most important thing.
对吧？
Right?
那么我们如何从耳周获取良好的信号呢？
And so how do we get good signal from around the ear?
这非常困难，而且这一切都回溯到我们的知识产权。
It's very tough, and it it all goes back to our IP.
如果你只看数据本身，它看起来就像是充满噪声的数据。
If you just look at the data by itself, it kinda just looks like noisy data.
对吧？
Right?
特别是因为这个区域有很多下颌运动。
Especially because there's a lot of jaw movement around this area.
这个区域会有很多感染，而且眼睛也会不停转动。
You get a lot of infection and also the eyes moving around.
要知道，这里面会存在很多伪影信号。
You know, you get a lot of artifacts that are in there.
所以我们四项知识产权中的一项——Mac技术就能帮助消除这些伪影。
And so our four pieces of IP, one of Mac helps remove artifacts.
另一项技术则能提升信噪比。
Another one boosts the signal to noise.
因此当用户通过我们的耳机采集EEG信号时，他们实际上获取的并非原始EEG信号。
And so when users pick up EEG from our headphones, they actually don't pick up the raw EEG.
他们获取的是经过我们AI系统分析处理后的信号。
They pick it up post analysis from our AI system.
这样就能确保他们获得足够数据量的高质量EEG信号，可以直接用于实验研究，而不仅仅是采集原始EEG信号再传输。
And that is what enables them to get really solid EEG that has enough data in there that they can actually run their experiments off of instead of just picking up the raw EEG and sending it through.
所以正是我们这边的知识产权，才使得这类硬件能够实现产品迭代和产品开发。
So it really is the IP on our side that enables that product evolution and product development that can come from this type of hardware.
是的。
Yes.
非常令人印象深刻。
Very impressive.
这很有道理，你们选择使用耳机绝对是明智之举，因为这正是神经技术普及的主要障碍之一。
It makes sense, your choice definitely of using earphones, because that was one of the obstacles in general of neurotech adoption.
人们常说，我们很愿意使用这项技术，但不想看起来与众不同。
People were saying, yes, we would love to use the technology, but we don't want to look differently from other people.
没错。
Yes.
此外，某些残障人士也表示，我们不想显得突出。
And also people with certain disabilities, they were saying, no, we don't want to stand out.
我们已经感到有些不自在了。
We already feel kind of uncomfortable.
是的。
Yes.
我们希望能看起来和普通人一样。
And we want to look like all normal people look like.
而你们提供的设计和方案，恰恰实现了这一点。
And what the design, the approach you are providing, it it is exactly that.
是的。
Yes.
我们都戴耳机，这完全正常，甚至看起来很酷。
We all wear headphones that's absolutely normal, that even looks cool.
没错。
Yes.
他们戴着优质耳机，但这些耳机同时具备脑机接口功能。
They have nice headphones on, but they also work as BCIs.
正是如此。
Exactly.
这点非常关键。
That's so key.
这非常关键。
That is so key.
它必须看起来正常。
It has to be normal.
有个概念叫'阿那克林效应'，指事物必须足够好才能成功，BCI也是如此。
There's this concept called the anacrine effect where everything has to be good enough before it can be successful, and that's true with BCI.
它必须看起来正常。
It has to look normal.
价格必须合理。
It has to cost a good amount.
对吧？
You know?
性能必须足够强大。
It has to be performant enough.
所有这些因素必须同时具备才能成功。
All these things have to come together before it could be successful.
我完全同意这一点。
I absolutely agree with that.
我的下一个问题是，我已经看到好几家公司，不，至少有一家公司，一家公司。
And my next question is, I saw already several companies, no, at least one company, one company.
那就是苹果。
It was Apple.
几年前苹果公司。
Apple several years ago.
当时到处都在报道他们为这项技术申请了专利——在耳机上安装EEG传感器，这样你戴上耳机就能开始记录脑电图。
And it was everywhere that they patented this technology of their earbuds, having the EEG sensors on them so you can insert them and start recording EEG.
随着人们逐渐意识到这确实是人们愿意尝试、愿意佩戴的产品，可能会有越来越多人尝试开发类似的技术。
And probably as people understand that this really is something that people would do, people would wear this, there are more and more people who might try coming up with something like this.
你认为你们公司独特的优势和价值是什么？是其他公司所不具备的？
What is, do you think, your unique advantage, your unique value that only your company is bringing that other companies do not?
是的。
Yeah.
这是个很好的问题。
That's a great question.
你知道，这实际上可以归结为我们的四项知识产权。
You know, really comes back down to our four pieces of IP.
它们解决了阻碍规模化应用的四个最大问题。
You know, they tackle the four biggest issues that have prevented scaling from happening.
而且这个领域已经有很多现有企业了。
And there is a lot of incumbents in the field.
我们发现这些现有企业大多以硬件为基础。
What we've seen is that the majority of these incumbents are hardware based.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们实际上视他们为潜在客户。
And so we actually see them as potential customers.
你希望你的硬件具备高性能，能够真正规模化产品吗？
Do you want your hardware to work at a high degree of capability that it can actually scale a product?
不错。
Cool.
来和我们谈谈吧。
Come talk to us.
对吧？
Right?
我们在这方面非常擅长。
We're really good at that.
我们正与许多不同的公司及国际品牌合作，将搭载我们技术的产品推向市场。
And we're working with a lot of different companies, global brands as well, to bring essentially neurable powered products to the market.
我认为正因为我们提供了一条易于扩展的路径来推广优质神经科技，这让我们在达成合作、推向市场方面获得了竞争优势，并最终将打造一个由开发者组成的生态系统，他们基于我们的工具和平台持续开发，推动模式不断强化。
And I think that because we are such an easy direction to scale out and get good neurotech out there, it's given us a competitive advantage in closing these deals and bringing it to market and eventually create an ecosystem of the developers that build on top of our tool and platform that continue to create a stronger, stronger mode as we move forward.
我理解得对吗？
Do I understand correctly?
比如说，我是一家生产优质耳机的厂商。
For example, I am a producer of very good headphones.
我听到了这段对话。
I hear this conversation.
我可以联系您并说，阿尔凯德博士，我非常希望能与您合作。
And I can contact you and said, doctor Alcaid, I'm very interested teaming up with you.
我能购买许可并将这些脑电传感器集成到我的耳机中吗？
Can I purchase a license and use this EEG sensors with my headphones?
是这样运作的吗？
Is this how how it works?
完全正确。
Exactly.
这正是我们的商业模式。
And that's what our business model is.
我们的商业模式，您知道，并不是非要销售耳机。
Our business model, you know, is not to necessarily sell headphones.
我们根本就不是一家耳机公司。
We're not a headphone company at all.
对吧？
Right?
而且我们永远不想成为耳机公司，因为这太难了。
And we never wanna be a headphone company because it's tough.
比如，我可不想和苹果竞争。
Like, I don't wanna compete against Apple.
对吧？
Right?
我们本质上是一家AI公司，将技术授权给耳机制造商和头戴设备制造商。
Like, what we are is we are an AI company that essentially licenses our technology out to headphone makers and headwear makers.
所以我认为这样描述最准确：我们在设备内部的芯片上编写软件。
So I think this probably describes it best, which is we write software onto the chip that goes inside your devices.
可以是高通的芯片。
It can be a Qualcomm chip.
可以是任何芯片。
It can be anything.
目前我们正与Master Dynamic合作开发耳机形态的产品，但我们的技术其实不受设备形态限制。
And right now, we're working with master dynamic inside headphone form factors, but we're also more factor agnostic.
我们的技术可以应用于头戴式耳机。
You know, our technology can go in in headphones.
也可以应用于无线耳塞。
It can go into earbuds.
在国防部项目中，我们的技术正被集成到头盔里，甚至包括听力保护系统。
For the DOD, we're seeing our technology be implemented into helmets, right, and even hearing protection systems as well.
但你可以想象未来AR设备也会内置这项技术。
But you can imagine future AR devices also have that technology inside.
本质上我们是增强脑电信号的软件，使其具备实用功能，并授权给多个品牌和公司使用。
So we are essentially just software that boosts the brain signal so you can do real things with it, And we license across multiple brands and companies.
这实在太令人惊叹了。
That is absolutely amazing.
也就是说基本上任何设备都能集成你们的技术。
So basically anything can have your technology integrated.
是吗？
Yes?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
大规模地。
At the large scale.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Wonderful.
我的下一个问题当然是关于职业的，毕竟这是个职业播客。
My next question is about of course, it's a podcast about careers.
在我们对话开始时，你提到你正在把学生推荐到我这里，或者我们的NeuroCareers播客，让他们收听并获取一些建议。
And at the beginning of our conversation, you said that you are sending students my way or our NeuroCareers podcast away so that they would listen and get some advice.
但显然他们在你推荐之前会先向你寻求建议。
But obviously they're asking you for the advice first before you refer them.
那么学生们最常向你咨询哪些职业问题呢？
So what are the most frequent questions you receive from students about their careers?
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
这是个非常好的问题。
That's a that's a great question.
说实话，我觉得总是那三个相同的问题。
And, honestly, like, I feel it's always the same three questions.
如果每天没有大约八名学生联系我，反而觉得不正常。
And if there isn't, like, eight students that reach out to me per day, like, something's wrong.
这太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
比如，我的领英收件箱简直一团糟。
Like, my LinkedIn box is terrible.
所以我才喜欢把他们转给你处理，毕竟你知道，我也得处理其他工作。
And that's why I like to send them your way because, you know, it's just you know, I I gotta work on other things too.
对吧？
Right?
但我觉得最常被问到的三个问题是：我该学什么专业？
But I think the three biggest questions that I get is what should I be studying?
对吧？
Right?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
随着人工智能的兴起，这个问题变得越来越普遍，因为你知道，这个问题的答案正在发生变化。
And this has become more prevalent now that AI is starting to get really big because, you know, that that question is changing.
是的。
Yes.
这个
The
第二个问题是，想了解如何进入神经科技领域的职业空间。
second question is, wanna understand, like, how I can get into the career space of neurotechnology.
有哪些途径可以进入这个领域？
What what are the avenues for it?
然后第三个问题是，我没有学过神经科技。
And then the third one is, I didn't study neurotech.
我该如何进入神经科技领域？
How do I get into neurotech?
对吧？
Right?
这三个是我最常被问到的主要问题。
Those are the three kind of biggest questions I get the most.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
实际上，现在正是回答这些问题的绝佳时机，因为你甚至不需要多说什么。
And actually, now there is a perfect opportunity to answer them because then you even don't need to say anything.
可以说，这就是播客的作用。
Can say, this is the podcast.
我已经回答了所有三个问题。
I answered all three of them.
你愿意这样做吗？
Would you like to do that?
你能先回答吗？
Can you answer first?
当然，通过学习。
Of course, with the study.
是的。
Yes.
我应该学习什么？
What should I study?
我同意。
And I agree.
人工智能正在发展，我们越来越多地将其整合到神经科技和整个科技领域。
AI is developing and we're integrating it more and more in neurotech and in tech in general.
对于那些想从事神经科技工作的人，你在学习方面有什么建议？
What is your recommendation in terms of studies for those who want to work with neurotech?
是的。
Yeah.
我可能有些偏见，也可能是错的。
I'm kinda biased and I could be wrong.
未来十年里，我可能完全错了，因为人工智能正在彻底改变这个视角。
In the next ten years, I might be completely wrong because AI is changing this complete perspective.
但我过去常告诉孩子们的是：学习你能掌握的最难、最复杂的数学和信号处理知识。
But what I used to tell kids is study the hardest, most difficult math and signal processing that you can.
就是说，课程越难越好。
Like, the harder the classes, the better.
就是说，要去做困难的事情。
Like, do do hard things.
比如，我认识很多人会说‘我没学计算机科学或数学就是因为太难了’。
Like, I I'm you know, so many individuals that I know are like, oh, I didn't do CS or I didn't do math because it's hard.
而他们转而学了神经科学或生物学之类的。
And instead, I studied, like, neuroscience and, like, biology.
这当然也没问题。
And and it's fine.
你可以这样选择。
You can.
但说实话，至少我们在NeuroDrill做的工作中，神经科学只占5%，95%都是信号处理和机器学习。
But, honestly, at least the work that we do at NeuroDrill, it's, like, 5% neuroscience, 95% signal processing, and machine learning.
对吧？
Right?
我真的很幸运，虽然本科阶段过得很痛苦。
And I'm really fortunate that, like, it was painful to go through undergrad.
那是我人生中最艰难的经历，再也不想重来一次。
Like, it was the hardest thing in my life I never wanna do again.
我甚至不确定是否会再次选择成为电气工程师。
Like, I don't even know if I would ever pick to be an electrical engineer again.
那段经历真的太残酷了。
Like, it was it was brutal.
对吧？
Right?
但正是这种残酷性——本科期间修研究生课程、超负荷学习...我还记得教授讲解22维矩阵时，那个讲座至今仍让我做噩梦惊醒。
But it was that brutal nature taking master's classes and, you know, and and overloading an undergrad and taking, you know I remember my professor talking about a 22 dimensional matrix, and I still wake up from nightmares from that lecture.
对吧？
Right?
但正是这些复杂的数学让你能够创造人工智能。
But it's that complex mathematics that enables you to create AI.
不仅仅是实现，而是创造。
Like, not just implement, but create.
在涉及大脑的人工智能领域，存在着巨大的能力缺口。
And there's this giant dearth of of of of capabilities for AI when it comes to the brain.
我们拥有所有标准化的东西。
We have all the standard stuff.
所有标准化的东西都已经被充分开发了。
All the standard stuff has been belted.
我正在那里重新审视几何结构。
We I'm reminding geometries there.
对吧？
Right?
神经网络已经存在。
Neural networks are there.
再次强调，我们的观点是：如果所有人都在做这件事，那它就不是正确的事。
And once again, like, our perspective is if everybody's doing it, it's not the right thing.
因此我们在Neurable所做的就是创造解决方案。
So what we do at Neurable is we create solutions.
我们不只是使用现有工具。
We don't just take the existing tools.
当然，我们会使用传统工具，比如滤波、经典机器学习、现代机器学习以及人工智能技术。
Obviously, we use classical tools and, like, you know, filtering and and classical machine learning and modern machine learning as well and AI.
但我们明白这些只能让我们达到和其他人相同的水平。
But we know that that's only gonna get us as far as where everybody else is.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我们的目标是将其作为垫脚石，去做些人们根本未曾想到的事情。
And so our goal is let's use that as a stepping stone to do something that people are completely not even thinking about.
这一直是我们的核心理念。
That's always been our mentality.
所以我常告诉人们：选修最难的课程，才能应对那些挑战。
And so I tell people, take the hardest classes so that you can take on those challenges.
对吧？
Right?
你不是那种人，想象一下尝试横渡大洋，对吧，或者航行。
You're not a person you know, imagine trying to sail across the ocean, right, or sail.
你不是在驶向你熟悉的地方。
You're not sailing to somewhere you know.
你是驶向未知的领域。
You're sailing to somewhere that's unknown.
而且，你要有足够的勇气看着身后的海岸线消失，才能看到前方新的海岸线。
And, you know, you have to be brave enough to to see the coast behind you disappear before you can start to see any coast in front of you.
正因如此，你必须让自己经历...这就像大卫·戈金斯的心态，明白你想学习的东西有多困难。
So because of that, you have to put yourself through you know, it's like a David Goggins mentality of how difficult of of the stuff that you wanna learn is.
我认为我们团队每个人都具备这种心态。
And that's where and I think everybody on my team has that mentality.
他们都钻研过非常艰深的课题，处于各自领域的顶尖水平，并且正在研究无人涉足的领域。
They've they've all studied really hard topics and and are at the top of their game, and and they're working on things that nobody else is.
一旦他们开始做别人都在做的事，公司文化就会变成这样：好吧。
And as soon as they start doing something that everybody else is doing, it's already company culture to be like, cool.
我希望你花一周时间在那上面，因为之后你得回到研究无人涉足的领域，那才是真正解决方案所在。
I hope you spend a week on that because then you gotta get back to working on things nobody else is because that's where the real solutions are at.
那么你什么时候应该学习最具挑战性的数学和人工智能相关领域？
So when should you study the hardest things you can that are mathematical, AI based?
这是我个人的观点。
That's my personal opinion.
是的。
Yeah.
我同意。
I I agree.
关于难度问题，我还听过一种说法：如果你开始觉得学习变轻松了，那说明你走错方向了。
And with also the difficulty, I've heard this expression that if you started feeling that it became easier and in studies as well, it means you are going the wrong direction.
对吗？
Yes?
所以真的要选择困难的事情并努力攻克它们，这才是真正能带来改变的做法。
So really pick up hard things and work on them and really what makes a difference.
今天其实我还录制了另一期播客，采访的是BCI奖的获奖者。
And today, actually, I had another podcast recording from the BCI award awardees.
他们在2024年BCI奖竞赛中获得了第二名，来自匹兹堡大学Kalinger实验室的博士团队。
They received second place in the BCI award competition for 2024 from Doctor.
就是Camille Gauthier博士的实验室。
Kalinger's lab at the University of Pittsburgh, Doctor.
他的观点与你所说的完全一致。
Camille Gauthier.
他说首先要攻克困难的数学、物理等对你来说真正具有挑战性的领域。
And he absolutely was in line with what you are saying.
这样之后再转向健康应用等方向会更容易，而不是一开始就只专注于神经科学和健康应用，最后还得回头补数学物理基础。
He said first hard math, physics, and things that really, really are hard for you.
确实如此。
It's easier from them to go to more health applications and things like of that nature rather than you start with just neuroscience and health application and go backwards, and you still need to study math and physics and Yeah.
工程学。
Engineering.
我想这样来思考这个问题，再补充一点，我们实际上是在尝试打破世界纪录。
And I like to think about it this way, just to add one other thing, which is like, what we're trying to do is break the world record.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我们试图打破的不是某人在田径赛场上的世界纪录。
We're trying to break the world record, but not of somebody running a a track.
我们要打破的是脑机接口无缝衔接程度的世界纪录。
We're trying to break the world record of how seamless the BCI can be.
我们要创造的是设备跨人群普适性的世界纪录。
We're trying to break the world record of how easy it can work across people.
对吧？
Right?
比如说，不需要进行个体校准。
So there's no individual calibration, for example.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你不会通过练习那些非突破性的成绩来打破世界纪录。
You're not gonna break the world record by practicing times that are not world breaking.
对吧？
Right?
你必须进入那种状态，逼自己学习那些真正困难、真正痛苦的数学和人工智能知识。
You have to be in that zone where you are pushing yourself to learn the math and the AI that that is really hard, that is really painful.
因为除非你拥有突破性的思维，否则你无法打破世界纪录。
Because you're not gonna break the world record unless you have a world breaking mentality.
对吧？
Right?
这才是关键所在。
That's really something that's key.
是的。
Yep.
我同意。
I agree.
可能你在招聘过程中也采用了与此相关的方法，如何筛选出能为公司效力的人选。
And probably you are using approaches that are tied to this in your recruitment process, how you're choosing people who will be working for your company.
那么你的具体策略是什么？
So what is your approach?
你在寻找什么样的人才？
Who are you looking for?
你又是如何判定这个人确实勤奋努力？
And how do you make that determination that, yes, this person works hard?
没错。
Yes.
或者说这个人是否具备那种能推动我们前进的独特思维。
Or it this person has that different mentality that can help push us forward.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为这也触及到第二个关键问题，那就是，如何在神经科技领域发展职业生涯？
And I think that also touches on the second key question, which is, like, how do I get a career in neurotech?
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
我先回答第一部分，关于如何在神经科技领域开启职业生涯。
So I'll answer that first part first of of of how to get a career in neurotech.
真的，我的意思是，目前这个领域还处于非常早期的阶段，大部分工作都是信号处理和人工智能相关的职位。
Really, I mean, there's right now, it's so early that most of it is signal processing and, like, AI jobs.
所以你应该往这个方向准备。
So that's what you should be setting.
是的。
Yes.
VCI公司里有律师职位。
There are lawyers that work in VCI companies.
对。
Yes.
还有人力资源岗位。
There are HR people.
明白吗？
You know?
这些职位仍然存在，但名额非常有限。
They're still a company, but those are very limited spots.
因此在神经科技领域发展事业的最佳途径，是专注于机会更多的领域。
And so the the best way to get a career in neurotech is to work on the areas where there's more opportunity.
对吧？
Right?
然后直接申请就是了。
And then just apply, obviously.
但问题是至少我们如何在Neurable进行招聘。
But then the the thing is how do at least we recruit at Neurable.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道，至少对我来说，现在喜不喜欢埃隆·马斯克不是重点。
You know, at least for me and and whether you like Elon Musk or not now is is beside this point.
我不想涉及政治话题。
I'm not gonna get political.
但他说过最棒的话之一就是：没人能靠每周40小时工作改变世界。
But one of the best things that he said is that no one changed the world with a forty hour work week.
对吧？
Right?
如果你只打算工作40小时，那我不希望你留在我的公司。
If you're gonna work forty hours, I don't want you at my company.
每一分每一秒，你都应该在学习、在成长。
Every single moment, you should be learning, growing.
要知道，这是一项使命。
You know, this this this is a mission.
对吧？
Right?
这项使命要么适合你，要么不适合。
And the mission either fits for you or it doesn't.
就这么简单。
It's as simple as that.
对吧？
Right?
当然，我们希望你在技术层面出类拔萃，我们寻找的是那顶尖的1%人才。
Now, obviously, we want you to be great at technically, and we're looking for those one percenters.
对吧？
Right?
你并不需要成为最顶尖的那一个，不一定要在班上名列前茅。
Are you and you don't have to be the best of at, like, the top of your class.
对不对？
Right?
在创造力方面，你可以成为那顶尖的1%。
You can be a one percenter when it comes to creativity.
但区分顶尖1%人群的关键在于他们是否愿意投入时间。
But the difference of what makes somebody 1% in the top 1% is whether they're willing to put the hours in.
要知道，我读过最棒的书之一叫《异类》，讲的是人们如何成为顶尖人才的故事。
You know, one one of the best books I've ever read was called Outliers, and it's about how people became the best in the world.
比如披头士乐队和许多其他杰出人物，他们的伟大源于投入了无数时间。
And the Beatles and so many other individuals out there, for example, they were great because they put in the hours.
披头士乐队的演出次数远超其他任何人。
The Beatles played more than anybody else.
对吧？
Right?
迈克尔·乔丹每天要投几百次篮。
Michael Jordan would shoot hoops hundreds hundreds of hoops per day.
科比·布莱恩特凌晨4点就开始训练，而其他人7点才开始。
Kobe Bryant would start his practices at 4AM while everybody else started at 7AM.
对吧？
Right?
这些人就是要完成他们的一万小时训练，这就是这本书的核心观点。
These are the people who are gonna get their ten thousand hours in, and that's the whole premise of the book.
尽快完成你的一万小时训练，然后投身于市场时机正好的领域。
Get your ten thousand hours in as soon as possible, and then work on something that market wise has good timing.
就市场时机而言，神经科技现在终于迎来了好时候。
Now market wise, NeuroTech, the timing is finally here.
我们亲眼目睹着销售和增长正在发生的巨大转折。
Like, we're we're seeing this huge inflection happening with with our own sales and growth.
我是说，我们现在的年增长率至少是四到五倍。
I mean, we're growing at least four to five x per year right now.
这太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
对吧？
Right?
但说到要找到合适的人选，关键在于你是不是那种人？
But when it comes to to, you know, finding the right people, it's it's are you that kind of person?
对吗？
Right?
你是否有足够的渴望？
Are are you hungry?
你是否保持谦逊从而愿意学习？
Are you humble so you're teachable?
除此之外，你是否具备良好的人际交往能力？
And then on top of that, do you have good interpersonal skills?
所以你具备这三点特质，还要有将这项技术推向市场作为人生使命的心态。
So you have those three things, and you have the mentality of being somebody who makes this your life mission to bring this technology to market.
这些正是我们要寻找的人才。
Those are the people we're looking for.
如果不是你，那也没关系。
And if it's not you, that's okay.
比如，外面还有很多其他公司可以选择。
Like, there's a ton of other companies out there.
只是不适合我们公司罢了。
It's just not neurable.
哦，你们具体需要看申请人哪些方面呢？
Oh, what what do you need?
在申请材料中哪些内容能让你觉得这个人确实脱颖而出？
To see on the person's application that would at least tell you, yeah, this person really stands out.
让我想进一步和他/她/他们聊聊。
I would like to talk to him, him, or them.
是的。
Yeah.
如果他们有一些与脑机接口相关的爱好，比如选修相关课程，或者利用业余时间参加相关活动。
If they have hobbies that are BCI related, if they took classes or if they, you know, went to events off of their, you know, off time.
但真正的试金石并不在简历上。
But the real the real litmus test isn't on the resume.
写一份漂亮的简历太容易了。
It's so easy to have a good resume.
对吧？
Right?
而且做个优秀的面试者也很简单。
And it's so easy to be a good interviewer.
那是一种技能。
That's a skill.
擅长面试本身就是一种技能。
Like, being good at interviews is a skill.
所以很多人被录用仅仅是因为他们擅长面试。
And so many people get hired just because they're good interviewers.
我认为我们的招聘流程不同之处在于，在招聘的最后阶段，候选人要和我进行九十分钟的面试。
Where where I think our hiring process is different is at the very end of the hiring, you actually meet with me for ninety minutes.
这时间相当长。
That's a long time.
我坚信，当你们彼此无话可说时，真正的对话才会开始。
I have this belief that when you're when you don't have anything else to say to each other, that's when the real conversations happen.
对吧？
Right?
这就是为什么面试时间要安排得这么长。
And that's really why there's so much extended time.
这样才能真正了解这个人。
It's like getting to really know the person.
比如，你有什么爱好？
Like, what are your hobbies?
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。