塔伊穆尔的新创业点子

大家好，欢迎来到我们今年《不过度思考》的第二期节目。对吗？

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to a our second episode of Not Overthinking this year. Is that right?

不可能。不，绝对不是今年的第二期。可能是第四或第五期了。因为我们住在一起时大概录了两三期节目。

No way. No. It's definitely not the second this year. It it's probably, like, the fifth or the fourth. Because I think when we were living together, we recorded probably, like, two episodes or three episodes.

是的。我们做了几期关于为什么爱会伤人的节目。然后大家都不喜欢。然后我们就

Yeah. I think we did a few episodes of why love hurts. And then everyone hated it. And then we just

然后然后就停了。对。对。对。我在上周的节目里看到一个有趣的评论，有人说我不相信奥利的效率建议。

And then and then we stopped. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw I saw a fun comment on last week's episode where where people were like, I don't believe Ollie's productivity advice.

他完全是个骗子，因为他连一个小时都抽不出来和弟弟聊天。

He's such a scammer because he can't even make one hour to talk to his brother.

对。对。对。对。对。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

看到那条评论了。他说，是啊。是啊。是啊。这两个人

Saw that comment. He's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These guys are

旨在影响

meant to affect

总是要讲究效率，但他们甚至一周连一个小时都抽不出来，所以显然行不通。类似这样的情况。嗯

are always to wear productivity, but they can't even get one hour one hour a week, so it obviously doesn't work. Something like this. Well

就是这个。总之产品不管用。

That's the one. Product anyway doesn't work.

但我们这两周已经设法每周抽出了一个小时。

But we have managed to get an hour a week now for two weeks.

我们有。

We have.

或者上一次可能是两周前。是两周

Or maybe the last one was two weeks ago. Was it two

周上一次是几周。它是上周发布的。所以哦，

weeks last one was weeks. It was it was released last week. So Oh,

好的。是的。我们两周前录制的。

okay. Yeah. We recorded it two weeks ago.

所以是的。我们十三天前录制的。

So Yeah. We recorded it thirteen days ago.

下周。是的。

Next week. Yeah.

是的。实际上，我们会争取比那更快更快更快地发布这个。我的团队没人会在平安夜工作，因为现在是我这里澳大利亚悉尼的周日早上9点，12月24日。

Yeah. Actually, we'll we'll aim to get this out sooner sooner sooner than that. Anyone on my team is working on Christmas Eve, because it's currently 9AM on Sunday, December 24, where I am in Sydney, Australia.

哇哦。我现在在英国这里是晚上10点。澳大利亚怎么样？你已经在那儿待了几天了吧？

Wowzers. It's currently 10PM where I am in The UK. How's Australia? You've been there a couple of days now?

是的。来了快一周了。五天，六天前到的。很棒。氛围很好。

Yeah. Been here for nearly a week. Got here five days, six days ago. It's great. The vibes.

悉尼超级酷。天气超级好。我想是因为现在是夏天中旬，所以很有活力。悉尼作为一个城市相当不可思议。就像想象一下伦敦，但如果有一条巨大的水体贯穿整个伦敦，这样无论你在哪里，就像，

Sydney is super cool. The weather is super nice. It's why it's I guess it's, like, the middle the middle of the summer, so it's vibey. And Sydney as a city is pretty incredible. It's like imagine London, but if there was a massive ass, like, body of water going all the way through London so that wherever you were in, like,

你是说，比如，泰晤士河？

the You mean, like, the River Thames?

想象一下，就像泰晤士河，但是，大概比泰晤士河大20倍的那种。等等，你刚刚断线了。

Imagine, like, the River Thames, but, like, 20 times bigger than the River Thames kind of thing. Wait. You've just disconnected.

等等。你的Wi-Fi信号很差吗？

Wait. Is your Wi Fi rubbish?

我觉得不是。我觉得我的网速还行。我的大概是，

I don't think so. I think it's reasonable. Mine is, like,

150兆。200兆。

a 150 megs. 200 megs.

好吧。我的比那个还要差。

Okay. Mine's mine's more rubbish than that.

但是哦，好吧。等等。所以你是说有一条巨大的水体流经伦敦？

But Oh, okay. Wait. So you're saying there's a large body of water running through London?

是啊。有一条超大的泰晤士河，但它比泰晤士河要大得多。河上还有各种船只之类的东西。而且，不仅这条泰晤士河比原来的大了20倍左右，而且它正好就在海岸线上。所以你有超多海滩之类的，有无数不同的海滩可供选择。

Yeah. There's a big ass River Thames, but it's, like, way bigger than the River Thames. And there's, like, kind of boats and stuff on it. And, like, you've got not only is it the River Thames that's, like, 20 times bigger than the River Thames, but you also have, like, every it's also, like, bang on the coast. So you've got like loads of beaches and stuff, and you have like tons and tons of different beaches to choose from.

无论你往哪儿看，基本上无论走到哪里，你都能看到这种超酷的海港景观，还有一座巨大的桥横跨海港。就像是

And wherever you look, you're sort of in this basically, wherever you go, you have this like really cool sea harbor type view with, like, a big ass bridge going across the harbor. It's like

哦，不错。

Oh, nice.

真的很酷。它有，嗯。就像是海滩、游艇码头、海港的结合体，附近还有山脉之类的东西，以及大约半小时车程就能到的国家公园。在澳大利亚悉尼的这一小片区域聚集了很多东西。所以超级棒。

It's really cool. It's got, like yeah. It's like beach meets, like, marina meets harbor meets, like they've also got, like, mountains and stuff nearby and, like, national parks that are, like, half an hour drive away. There's there's a lot of stuff that's congregated in this little kind of area in Australia, in Sydney. So it's it's super nice.

那里的人怎么样？你有没有遇到一些粉丝，或者网络上的人？

What what are what are the people like? Have you met any, like, fans, or are there, like, Internet people?

是啊。前几天我和一些从未谋面的创意朋友一起吃了顿饭。他们非常友好，氛围很好。嗯，我觉得澳大利亚人可能和其他地方的人差不多。总体上都很友好、友善，是的。

Yeah. I had a bit of a dinner with some creative friends, who I'd never met before, the other day. And they were very friendly and good vibes. And, yeah, I mean, I guess people in Australia are probably similar to people elsewhere. I generally friendly and nice and yeah.

不错。是一次很好的经历。是的。

Nice. It's been a good experience. Yeah.

你呢？最近这一周左右都在忙些什么？

What about you? What have you been up to this last week or so?

最近一周左右？都是些常规的事情。圣诞节期间我在岳父母家待几天。我们昨天到的，基本上要待到下周末。

Last week or so? Pretty standard stuff. I am spending a few days at my in laws place over Christmas. So we got here yesterday. We here for until like, yeah, next weekend basically.

我一直在做什么？假期里我花了一些时间在一个小副业项目上。

I have what have I been doing? I am spending a little bit of time on a little side project over the break.

所以这是...这是个日历相关的东西吗？

So Is this is this a calendar thing?

就是这个日历项目。对。对。对。没错。

This is the calendar thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

你想向我们的听众介绍一下吗？

Do you wanna pitch it to to to our listeners?

好的。简单说一下背景，这已经成了我近几年圣诞节的一个传统，我会在圣诞假期做一些编程类的小副业项目。我想已经持续好几年了。去年我复活了速算项目，那是我2013年的代表作。Speedsums.com，大家可以去看看。

Alright. So just for some context, it's a bit of a sort of Christmas tradition now for the last few years that I I do some, like, little coding type side project over the Christmas break. I think quite a few years now. So last last year, I resurrected speed sums, which was my magnum opus from 2013. Speedsums.com, you can go and check it out.

所以最后那个项目已经离线好几年了。所以去年，我就想，好吧，这个圣诞节我要把speed sums重新上线。前一年，我记得Lucas和我在尝试做一个国际象棋NFT。那还是NFT时代。

So last so that that's that had been offline for a few years. So last year, was like, okay. This Christmas, I'm gonna, like, bring speed sums back online. The year before that, I believe Lucas and I were trying to build a chess NFT. This was NFT era.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

所以我们实际上从没...是的。我们...哦，是的。我们当时就是挺忙的，所以最后其实没有真正发布

So we never actually yeah. We oh, yeah. We were just, like, pretty busy and stuff as if we didn't actually end up launching

除了我很喜欢你当时对那个项目的坚定信念。我当时对此非常怀疑，而你却说

that other than I love how much conviction you had about that. I was so skeptical about this, and you were like,

你害怕这个。

you're scared about it.

就像是的。

Like yeah.

我的意思是，看看。看看。那是个不同的时代。好吧？NFT。

I mean, look. Look. It was a different time. Alright? NFT.

那是那是那是NFT时代。我仍然认为这个概念相当不错。总之，我们不需要深入讨论这个。嘿。所以正确的。

It was it was it was the NFT era. I still think the concept was pretty good. Anyway, we don't need to go into that. Hey. So the right.

这个产品的推销话术。好吧。这是一个推销话术。明白吗？如果你是知识工作者，如果你在办公室工作，你可能远程或在家工作，那么你就是笔记本电脑阶层的一部分。

The pitch for this one. Alright. Here's a pitch. Alright? You are part of the laptop class, if you are a knowledge worker, if you work in an office, you might work remotely or from home.

但如果你是一个使用笔记本电脑工作的知识工作者，很可能你的整个工作生活都将由你的Google日历支配。你会有一个用于工作邮件的Google日历。你每天可能会花大约两到四个小时参加会议，与公司内部人员的内部会议。这些可能是某种定期会议，比如公司全员大会、每日站会、团队会议或每周例会之类的。明白吗？

But if you are a knowledge worker that works from the laptop, chances are that your entire work life will be dictated by your Google Calendar. You will have a Google Calendar for your work email. You will spend probably two about two two to four hours per day in meetings, internal meetings with people in your company. These might be sort of recurring meetings, like, you know, the company all hands or some daily stand up or some team meeting or some weekly whatever. You know?

对吧？你每天会花两到四个小时在会议上。而整体上，你的组织每周总共要在会议上花费数百人时。所以会议确实是人们完成工作的很大一部分方式。而Google日历，可以说是事实的来源，就像，嘿。

Right? You'll be spending two, you two to four hours per day in meetings. And overall, your organization is collectively spending hundreds of of person hours in meetings every single week. So meetings are, you know, really big part of how how people get work done. And Google Calendar is, you know, kind of the source of truth for, like, hey.

这就像是起点，比如你查看你的Google日历然后说，好吧。接下来几个小时我有什么安排？明天有什么？你知道，Google日历是你一天会回来查看20次的东西。你基本上总是开着Google日历的标签页。

This is it's like the starting off point for, like you you check your Google Calendar and say, okay. Whatever I got in the next few hours? What have I got tomorrow? What have I got you know, Google Calendar is the thing you're coming back to, you know, like, 20 times a day. You've got the you've basically always got the Google Calendar tab open.

你总是回到那里查看，好吧，接下来是什么？明白吗？嗯，你知道，离我下一个事项还有多少时间之类的。对吧？到目前为止你跟得上吗？

You're always coming back to that to see, okay, what's next? You know? Well, you know, how much time do I have until my next thing or whatever. Right? You're with me so far?

完全同意。只是有个问题。人们是直接上calendar.google.com，还是大多数人使用第三方日历应用作为他们的真相来源，然后连接到Google日历？

Absolutely. Just a question. Do people go on calendar.google.com, or does do most people use a third party calendar app that's their source of truth that connects to Google Calendar in

你的使用体验？大多数人用日历，我用calendar.google.com。我试过，你知道，我试过所有那些花里胡哨的东西，比如我们试过VimCal。VimCal，你知道的。哦，是的。

your experience? Most people go on calendar I I use calendar.google.com. I've tried, you know, I've tried all of the whatever cool thingies, you know, like, freaking like We tried VimCal. VimCal, you know. Oh, yeah.

还有哪些其他的？比如VimCal。还有像cal.com之类的。

What are some of other ones? There's like VimCal. It's like cal.com or something.

我爱VimCal。VimCal太棒了。

I love VimCal. VimCal is so good.

是的。所以我的感觉是，大多数人只是用浏览器那个东西。当然，可能有一些生产力达人什么的，他们会用第三方应用。

Yeah. So look, my my my sense is that most people are just using the browser thingy. Sure. There might be some, like, productivity bros or whatever. They were using third party apps.

我认为你们大多数人都在用calendar.u.com，一天要查看20次。所以公司在内部分会议上投入大量资源。你知道，他们的团队花很多时间在内部分会议上。我觉得问题在于大多数公司可能对这些会议不够深思熟虑。你知道吧？

I think I think most of you are using calendar.u.com, they're checking it, like, 20 times a day. So companies are they're spending a lot of resources on internal meetings. You know, their their team is spending a lot of time in internal meetings. And I think the thing is that most companies are probably not super thoughtful about these meetings. You know?

你只是日历上有这些会议，你就去开。可能紧接着又有另一个会议。你知道吧？你有很多工作要做，而且我觉得人们很少提供关于会议参与度和效率的反馈。

You just have these meetings in the calendar. You do the meeting. You probably have another meeting back to back. You know? You have lots of work going on, And I don't think people are providing much feedback on how engaging meetings were, how productive meetings were.

我认为如果公司想要征集这种反馈，那么你知道，这其实不是任何人全职工作的一部分。必须有人决定，好吧，我要设置一些该死的Google表单，通过邮件或Slack在会议后发送，让人们提交会议反馈之类的。对吧？没人有时间做这个。

I think if companies want to solicit such feedback, someone then you know, this is not really part of anyone's sort of full time job. Someone has to decide, okay. I'm gonna set up some, like, freaking Google form, which I'm gonna send via email or via Slack after the meeting to get people to submit some meeting feedback, whatever. Right? No one's got time for this.

没人有时间来设置这个。当你急着赶赴下一个会议时，没人有时间填写随机的谷歌表格。所以我们需要的是一个一键式无摩擦的方式，让任何刚参加过会议的人都能提供关于该会议的反馈。对吧？我们的产品是一个谷歌日历的小部件。

No one's got time to set this up. No one's got time to fill in random Google forms when you're rushing to your next meeting. And so what we need is a one click frictionless way for anyone who has just attended a meet just attended a meeting to provide feedback on that meeting. Right? And what our product is, it is it is a widget for Google Calendar.

它是一个你可以直接安装的Chrome扩展程序。它的作用是当你打开谷歌日历时，点击一个会议，它会弹出一个小的弹出窗口，显示：嘿，是这个时间吗？这些是参会者。这是Zoom链接。在那个弹出窗口中，你会看到一个简单的小框，带有一个五星评分小部件。

So it's a Chrome extension that you can just install. And what it does is when you go on Google Calendar and you click on a meeting, it it brings up a little pop up of, like, hey, is this the time. These are the attendees. This is the Zoom link. Within that pop up, you will see a simple little box with a five star rating widget.

只需一键，你点击一个五星评分，然后你就完成了对会议的评分。你可以看到所有参会者的平均评分。会议的管理员或组织者可以看到，比如，有12个人给我的会议评分，平均分是4.6，这里是所有的个人评分。就是这么简单。

In one click, you click a rating out of five stars, and then you've rated the meeting. You can see, like, the average rating across all the attendees. And whoever is, like, the admin, the organizer of the meeting can see, okay, you know, 12 people rated my meeting. The average is, like, 4.6, and here are all the individual ratings. It's like, it's that simple.

你知道，基本上零摩擦，超级简单，但我认为无摩擦性真的是关键。因为只要有一点点摩擦，就没人会去做。相比试图获取超高分辨率但最终没有反馈，拥有一些低分辨率的反馈——比如只是五星评分，没有评论或其他——要好得多。所以这是一个超级简单的小部件。

You know, no you know, basically zero friction, super simple, but I think the frictionlessness is is really the key here. Because as soon as there's a little bit of friction, no one's gonna do it. It's it's better to have, like, you know, frequent kind of low resolution feedback, you know, just five star rating, no comments or whatever. It's better to have, like, some feedback that's really low resolution than, like, no feedback that's, like, tries to be super high resolution, basically. And so super simple widget.

你只需在日历中看到它。一键就可以给这些会议评分。是的，基本上这就是我们正在搭建的东西。所以听起来还不错。有几个问题需要解决。

You just see it in your calendar. One click, you can rate these meetings. And, yeah, that's what we're setting up, basically. So that sounds pretty good. Couple of bodies.

是的，是的。我觉得它有些潜力。是的。我们打算在年初就把它推出去。

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's got some legs. Yeah. We'll just kinda launch it at the start of the year.

是的，是的。所以我一直在

Yeah. Yeah. So I've been

哥们，你

Mate, you

知道吗，我觉得你想读那个。

know, I think you wanna read that.

那个想把它融入我的组织里。

That into wanna incorporate that into my organization.

是的。是的。当然。是的。我们可以，是的。

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. We can yeah.

它应该能在圣诞节左右准备好进行测试。所以我会发给你，你可以

It should be ready for beta testing probably on, like, Christmas day or something. So I'll ping it over and you can

它测试什么。开发一个Chrome扩展需要什么？比如，一个人怎么做这个？我其实不

What does it test out. What does it take to make a Chrome extension? Like, how do how does one do that? I'm not actually

Chrome扩展这部分。我的另一个朋友正在开发那个。但我觉得应该不会太难。我的意思是，

Chrome extension part of it. Another friend of mine is building that. But I I don't think it's too bad. I mean,

现在有一些框架可以让你，比如，那你到底在做什么呢？如果你想开发一个Chrome扩展，但你并没有在开发这个扩展。

there are, frameworks nowadays that let you, like So what are you doing then? If you're trying to build a Chrome extension and you're not building the Chrome extension.

我在做营销，我在做营销网站。我正在做营销网站。

I'm building the marketing I'm doing the marketing site. I'm doing the marketing site.

是的。就像，谈论一个

Yeah. Like, talking about a

大量的文案。是的。是的。我会，嗯，我会负责那些，你知道，一些推广工作。你知道，我是那个出点子的人。

lot of copy. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be, yeah, I'll be doing those, you know, some of the the promo. You know, I'm the I'm the I'm the ideas guy.

明白吗？我有想法。我更像是一个高层次的，你知道，大局观的人，那种天马行空思考的类型。懂吗？是的。

Okay? I had the idea. I I'm more of a high I'm more of a big picture kind of, you know, blue sky thinking kind of guy. Okay? Yeah.

对。明白了。我知道。我的意思是，是的，我在做营销方面的工作。

Right. Got it. I know. I mean, yeah, I'm doing I'm doing the marketing side.

你是那个有远见的CEO，而不是那个整合者、运营者或者真正做事的人。是的。

You're the visionary CEO rather than the the integrator or the operator or one doing whatever's actually doing the thing. Yeah.

是的。是的。是的。是的。我是一个我是一个我是一个我不是一个说话的人。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm not a a talker.

我是一个说话的人。你知道吗？这就是

I'm a talker. You know? That's What

你会对那些听这个的人说什么，他们可能会想，等等。你知道，我喜欢只做一个点子人的想法。就像是的，我有很多点子。那么我能不能就找个人来帮我实现这些点子？

would you say to someone someone listening to this who's like, wait a minute. You know, I like the idea of just being an ideas guy. Like Yeah. I come with a lot of ideas. So can I just, like, find someone to build those ideas for me?

不。我的意思是，听着。我们我只是在开玩笑，说什么点子人之类的。我认为

No. I mean, look. We I'm just joking around here about being an ideas guy or whatever. I think

因为确实有人有那种想法。是的。是的。我知道。就是一个点子人的典型例子。

because there are people that have that that kind of thought. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Is a prime example of an an ideas guy.

是的。我不知道。听着。我确信有一些公司或企业的例子是由某个点子人创立的，他们找到别人，比如，帮他们构建，然后付一些钱之类的。我不……你知道，我认识很多人，他们有初创公司或企业之类的。

Yeah. I don't know. Look. I'm sure there are examples of companies or businesses that were started by some ideas guy that, like, find someone else, like, build it for them and pay them some money or whatever. I don't you know, I I know a bunch of people who, you know, have startups or businesses or whatever.

我不认为他们中有谁是那种点子人的原型。我认为这非常困难。我觉得，如果你想构建一些东西，如果你想开始做某事，你可能需要一些实际的技能，或者你需要成为一个非常有吸引力的人，让别人愿意仅仅基于你的想法就追随你。因为我认为事实是，如果你是个点子人，你在找人实现你的想法，如果某人有技术技能，如果他们会编程并且有创业精神，那么你增加了什么价值？从他们的角度来看，就像，好吧，点子人此时增加了什么价值？

I don't think any of them are, like, the ideas guy sort of archetype. I think it's just very hard. I think, like, if you wanna build some if if you wanna, like, start something, you know, you probably want some, like, tangible skill, or you need to be some, you know, a very compelling individual that other people will want to, you know, follow based on your just your idea or something. Because I I think the truth is, if you're the ideas guy, and you're looking for someone to build your idea, you know, if someone if someone is sort of if someone has technical skills, if they can code and they're entrepreneurial, what value are you adding? You know, from their point of view, it's like, okay, what value is the ideas guy adding at this point?

好吧。我听说过这个想法。你知道，你不能，就像，不能给一个想法或类似的东西申请版权。我听说过这个想法。这家伙每天12个小时要做什么呢？而我实际上在构建这个东西。

Okay. I've heard the idea. You can't like, you know, can't, like, can copyright an idea or something. I've heard the idea. What is this guy gonna be doing, you know, for twelve hours a day while I'm, like, actually building the thing?

他可能会，就像，发发邮件之类的？可能发几封。但是，你知道，这确实很难想象。所以是的。听着。

He's gonna be, like, probably sending emails or something? Probably a few. But, like, it's it's definitely, you know, hard to imagine. So yeah. Look.

我相当反对那种'空想家'的氛围。但我的意思是，看。我们三个一起做这个项目的人都是技术型的，都能构建东西等等。这就像是我们正在做的一件有趣的事情。听着，是的，我们每个人都有自己的小角色。

I'm pretty anti ideas guy vibes. But I mean, look. All three all three of us that are working on this are, like, technical and can build stuff, etcetera. And it's just like a fun thing that we're doing. Listen, yeah, we we each have a little little role.

是的。真的很有趣。我很喜欢。是的。构建一个小东西然后发布一个小东西，真是太有趣了。

Yeah. It's really fun. I love it. Yeah. It's it's so much fun just like building a little thing and just like launching a little thing.

是的。太棒了。

Yeah. It's great.

如果你不做Causal，你会想以类似Peter Level的风格去构建和发布一些小东西吗？

If you weren't doing causal, would you like to build and launch little things kind of like Peter level style?

可能不会。我觉得，偶尔锻炼一下、使用一下那个能力是很有趣的。而这个想法在我脑海里已经存在了，就像，过去几个月我一直想着，哦，好吧。很酷。是的。

Probably not. Like, I think it's I think it's it's fun just to, like, flex and to sort of use that muscle once in a while. And I this is an idea that had been in my head for, like, the last couple of months As I was like, oh, okay. Cool. Yeah.

也许我的意思是，你知道，卢克和我刚刚还在讨论这件事，然后就觉得，好吧。我们可以就这样做，在圣诞假期花几天时间把这个做出来。我觉得，我没想到会这样，你知道，每年做一次还挺有趣的。就是发布一些东西，看看会发生什么。但我觉得，你知道，我更喜欢做那些有持续性的事情。

Maybe I mean, you know, Luke's and I were just talking about it, and then it was just like, okay. You know, we could just do this, you know, spend a couple of days over the Christmas holidays and and and just do this. I Like, I didn't think I'd you know, it's fun to do, like, once a year. I just, like, launch something, get it out there, see what happens. But I think, you know, I think it's more I don't it's like I like I like working on causal stuff.

构建一个更大的、不断改进的东西，比做很多零散的小项目更让人满足。但我觉得各有各的好处吧。你能听到我说话吗？

It's more satisfying to, like, be building this bigger thing that, like, is getting better and, you know, all that kind of stuff rather than lots of small piecemeal things. But each to their end, I think. Can you hear me?

嗯，我觉得我们回来了。有点掉线。

Yeah. I think we're back. A bit of a DC.

是的。我在努力回忆，比如大学时期的事情。我觉得能够让自己回到五年前或十年前的状态是很有用的。因为我记得大学时，大一那年，有个点子王——基本上就是个想法很多的人。在牛津，有人做了一个大型的Google表格，列出了对创业感兴趣的计算科学专业学生之类的。

Yeah. I'm trying to remember, like, if I had back at university yeah. I think I think it's useful to be able to, like, put yourself back in the shoes, you know, of, like, what where you were, like, sort of five or ten years ago. Because I remember back at university, I remember in first year in first year of uni, some ideas guy some you know, like an ideas bro, Basically okay. They're basically at Oxford, there was someone had made a big Google Sheets of, like, computer science students or something who are interested in, like, startups or something.

你知道吗？有人就是做了个Google表格，里面有一堆对创业感兴趣的计算科学专业在校生。然后有个点子王联系了卢卡斯——不知怎么的卢卡斯也在那个表格里。这个点子王就带着他的想法联系了卢卡斯。

You know? Someone just had some Google Sheets, a bunch of with a bunch of, like, the the current students doing computer science who are interested in startups or something. And some ideas bro reached out. Lucas was on the sheet somehow. And some ideas bro reached out to Lucas with this idea.

这个想法很经典。就是说：嘿，很多人需要私人辅导，牛津学生很聪明，应该是好老师。我们建一个平台，让学生可以注册成为老师，需要的人可以找到他们，把需要家教的学生和牛津学生连接起来。

And the idea was quite classic. It was like, hey. Why don't we you know, lots of people want tutoring, private tutoring. Presumably, Oxford students are smart and would be good teachers. Let's build a marketplace where students can post themselves as teachers and people can find them and, you know, connect connect, you know, the students who want private tutors to the Oxford students, whatever.

是的。我觉得一旦上了大学，这基本上是每个人最先想到的点子。可能每年都有两三个人在尝试做这个。大概每五到十年，其中会有一两个人能做出点成绩来。

Yeah. Very I think, you know, once you go to university, this is, like, the first idea anyone ever comes up with. Yeah. I think, like, probably every year, there's probably, like, two or three people trying to build this. Probably, you know, probably, like, one or two of them, you know, get some traction every, like, five or ten years or something.

总之，我当时有一些想法，兄弟，就像，在Google Sheets上找到了这个点子，然后去找了Lucas。你知道，Lucas很热衷于参与一些创业类的事情，比如搞点东西，赚点钱之类的。然后Lucas，你知道，他联系我并拉我入伙一起开发。回想起来，我记得当时让我印象很深、觉得'哇，这真是个正经操作'的事情，基本上就是这家伙的推销方式——他显然有了这个想法，而且已经注册了公司。对吧？

Anyway, so I some ideas, bro, had, like, found this Google Sheets and approached Lucas for this. And, you know, Lucas was keen to, like, get involved in some, you know, entrepreneurial stuff, like, up, you know, build some stuff, make some money kind of thing. And then Lucas, you know, Lucas wrote me and recruited me to kind of build it with him. And when I look back, I think, like, I remember the the kind of stuff that I was quite impressed by that I thought, like, oh, man, this is like a legit operation, was basically that this guy I I I remember I remember, basically, this guy's pitch was like something like, you know, he had the idea, obviously, and he'd, like, registered to the company. Right?

你知道，我当时不知道那意味着什么，但我当时想，哇。这就像连续剧一样。他注册了公司，一切都搞定了。而且他正在找一些程序员来开发这个东西。他还有一些联系人，打算做市场营销之类的事情。

You know, I didn't I didn't know what that meant at the time, but I was like, woah. This is like a series. He's registered the company and everything. And he's, you know, he's looking for, you know, some coders to, you know, to build this thing. And then he's got some contacts, and he's gonna, like, do the marketing and the you know, this kind of stuff.

你知道，他就像个生意人，看起来像个相当正经的商业人士。他注册了该死的公司。他注册了一家有限公司，天哪。我记得当时的感觉，哦，哇。这真是太正规了。

You know, he's like a business he seems like a pretty legit business guy. He's he's registered the freaking company. He's registered a limited company for crying out loud. And I remember being like I remember that feeling, oh, wow. Well, this is this is so legit.

你知道吗？总之，那件事最后没什么结果。我不记得具体细节了，但我想我们最后决定不继续做了。但是，那种'哇，他注册了公司'的感觉。

You know? Anyway, look, that thing didn't really go anywhere. I think we I can't remember the details, but I think we decided against working on it in the end or whatever. But, like, that that kind of thing of, like, wow. He's, like, registered a company.

这是来真的。是的。我只是在回想，当时我对整个创业世界的理解是什么？那就是我的理解水平。就像，哇。

This is for real. Yeah. I'm just thinking back to, like, what was my understanding of the whole, like, business startup world back then? It was that that was kind of, like, the, you know, my level of understanding. Like, wow.

他注册了一家有限公司。你知道吧？

He's, like, registered a limited company. You know?

是的。我最近一直在思考的一个问题是经验的价值，以及从经验中获得的那些难以言表但又并非完全无形的东西——很难写下来解释清楚。我一直在从首次创业者和二次创业者的角度思考这个问题。因为我和朋友Pablo（VoicePal的Pablo）正在做的项目，他是第三次创业了，做这行已经很长时间了。很好。

Yeah. One one thing I've been thinking about a lot recently is kind of the the the the the value of experience and, like, the intangibles that you gain from experience that are not quite intangible, but it is very hard to write down and and and to explain. And I've been thinking about this in the context of, like, kind of first time founders, second time founders. Because the thing that I'm building with my friend Pablo, VoicePal Pablo is, like, a third time founder and has been doing this for a very long time. Good.

基本上就是，把所有时间都花在做用户访谈上。

Is, like, spending all his time doing user interviews, basically.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，做大量用户访谈和测试，确保我们正在做正确的事情，主动联系用户，与核心用户群体通话，接触前100名左右的资深用户等等。这与我过去构建产品的方式完全相反——我原本会躲进山洞里埋头开发，然后再向世界展示，但这在创业或构建任何东西时都不是推荐的做法。是的。我一直在思考这个问题，我的团队现在每个人都已经跟我们合作至少两年了。

And, like doing a lot of kind of user interviews and testing and just making sure that we have the right thing that we're actually working on and hopping on calls with people and like actively reaching out to the top 100 or so people who are power users and all this kind of stuff. And this is the exact opposite of what I would have been doing if I were building a thing. I would have gone into a cave to build the thing and then try to unveil it to the world, which is broadly not to the recommended approach when it comes to doing startups or building anything. Yeah. And I've been thinking about this in the sense of, as well, like, my team now ever like, basically, everyone in our team has been with us for at least two years.

我确实看到每个人都在不断成长。但如果我要招聘一个完全没有相关经验的新人，并尝试解释为什么我们的客户成功主管Allison如此出色——比如，如果Allison离开我们，我们该如何找到替代者？这会非常困难，因为有很多经验性的无形特质。我以前认为一切都是技能，都可以学习，能有多难呢？嗯。

And I've definitely seen how over time every single person has leveled up. But if I were to, like, try and recruit someone brand new with no experience in a given role and try to explain, like, what is it about our head of customer success that makes this that makes Allison amazing and that, like, would Right. If Allison were to leave us, like, how would we how do we find that other person? It would be really hard to do because there's a lot of these sort of experiential intangibles that in I think previously my model was everything is a skill, everything can be learned, how hard can it be? Mhmm.

而现在我的看法是，那可能没错，但一个人每天花8到12小时做某件事，持续数月甚至数年，确实会积累大量难以描述的无形价值。是的，是的。当你拥有这样的人时，这些价值非常有用。是的。

And now my model is like, that may be true, but actually having someone who has spent eight to twelve hours a day doing a thing for for, like, months to years is creates loads of intangibles that are very hard to describe. Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly useful when you have that person. Yeah.

历史上我们有过这样的经历：团队中有两名成员想担任RevOps（收入运营）角色。其中一人曾在一家较大规模的初创公司做过18个月的RevOps，另一人没有经验，但理论上了解构建CRM（客户关系管理系统）等概念。

An experience historically because we had we had two team members wanting to go for a RevOps role on our team. Yeah. One of them had experience doing RevOps for, like, eighteen months at an at a at a at a bigger startup, and the other one did not. But knew, in theory, the concept of, like, building a CRM and, like

是的。

Yeah.

事情是这样的。与两人分别交谈以及一起交流让我意识到，天哪。那个已经做了十八个月的人对这个领域了解得极其深入，而我知道的却很少。他正在教育我这件事。而当我与那个没有经验的人交谈时，我们基本上是从第一原理出发，像是在说，我觉得我们应该有一个联系人数据库之类的。

Stuff. And speaking to both individually and also together made me realize, oh my goodness. The guy who's been doing it for eighteen months knows an absolute megaton about this field that I know very little about. And he educating me about the thing. Whereas when I was speaking to the person with no experience, she and I were just sort of, like, kind of working from roughly first principles of, like, I guess we should have this database of contacts and stuff.

我猜是的。是的。

And I guess Yeah. Yeah.

是的。每次我们与他们互动时，我们应该，我不知道，更新它。这就像是医院里的电子病历之类的？你知道，就是这类事情。然后另一个人加入进来，他说，是的。

Yeah. Every time we have an interaction with them, we should, like, I don't know, update it. And is it, like, kind of electronic patient records in in, like, hospitals and shit? You know, this this kind of thing. And then this other guy comes in, he's like, yeah.

你知道，这是有现成方案的。我们以前做过这个。就像这样，它是这样运作的。背后有一整套框架。没错。

You know, this is a thing. We've done this before. Like, here's how it works. There's a whole framework behind this. Yep.

没错。我知道你是这么想的，但实际上，巴拉巴拉巴拉…… 哦，是的。我们试过那个，但实际上我们在六个月后发现那个策略行不通。因此，我们必须，我不知道，以这种方式改进我们的数据，以这种方式清理它。我当时就想，哇。

Yep. I know you you know, that's what you're thinking, but actually, blah blah blah blah blah blah And, oh, yeah. We tried that, but actually we found out, like, six months down the line that that strategy didn't work for that. And therefore, we have to, like, I don't know, make our data better in this way and clean it up in this way. And I was like, woah.

这就是经验的价值。嗯。这是我以前所没有的那种层次的理解。是的。所以我非常认同你所说的。

It's a value of experience Mhmm. Which I previously didn't did not did not have that kind of that sort of level of understanding of. Yeah. So I I very much vibe vibe with what you're saying.

是的。有哪些……我的意思是，如果你回顾一下，比如，你知道，在你职业生涯的早期，做那些赚钱的副业项目，开始做YouTube，还有没有其他事情，比如，这整个注册过程，对于不熟悉这个过程的人来说，任何人在英国都可以上网花10英镑注册一家公司。你知道，在美国，你也可以直接注册公司。手续稍微多一点，花的钱也稍微多一点。但是，拥有一家注册公司，你知道，它其实并不代表什么。

Yeah. What were some of I mean, if you if you look back to, like, you know, when you were in the earlier days of your career, you know, doing, you know, money making projects on the side, getting started with YouTube, were there other things, like, like, this whole, like, register, like, you know, for anyone who's not familiar with the process, anyone can go on the Internet and register a company for £10 in The UK. And, you know, anyone I you know, in The US, you can just register a company. It was a bit more admin, and you pay a bit more money. But, like, having having a registered company is, like, you know, it it doesn't mean anything.

就像，你知道，在我还没怎么真正接触这个世界之前，对我来说，那可能会让我觉得，哇。我完全不知道。我完全不知道。我大概以为你得是个超级厉害的人才能注册公司，那意味着很多或者什么的。你懂吗？

Whereas, like, you know, before I kind of really been in the world for very long, to me, that would have been like, woah. I have no idea. I have no idea. I'm presuming somewhat you have to, like, be some super legit guy to register a company, and that means a lot or something. You know?

你能不能，能不能回忆起早期那些，你会觉得印象深刻或者会让你想，哦，

Can you can you, like, remember the kind of stuff earlier on that, like, you would have found impressive or, like, you would have thought, oh,

老兄。那就像，那就像，

man. That's, like, that's, like, the

事情，你知道，那些现在你显然知道，其实并不

thing, you know, that, like, just obviously, now you you just know is, you know, is not really

有意义？这是个好问题。你可以多说一些，而我想

meaningful? That's a good question. Feel free to say some more things while I wanna

我想思考一下这个。因为这很难，我觉得很难让自己回到那种状态，你懂吗？

I wanna think about this. Because it's hard, like, I think it's hard to, like, put yourself back in those shoes, you know?

我想我以前对融资一无所知。现在我还是不太了解，但我看你做了足够多次，或者尝试做了足够多次，也看到朋友们尝试了足够多次，所以大概知道这是怎么运作的。不过，我还是懂得很少。但我觉得过去我对融资的看法更像是，哦，所以我猜你得上《龙穴》之类的节目去做个推销，或者类似那样的事情。

I think I previously knew nothing about fundraising. And I still don't know very much about it, but I've seen you do it enough times or attempt to do it enough times and seen friends attempt to do it enough times to be like, okay. This is broadly how this works. Still, I know very little about it. But I think in the past, my approach to fundraising was more like, oh, so I guess you go on Dragon's Den and, like, make a pitch or, you know, that that that sort of thing.

是的。以至于如果有人，就像是的。我觉得我我我认为对于像你知道的事情，我我觉得人们会用这种语言，比如，哦，是的。我已经我已经从一些投资者那里筹集了一些资金。

Yeah. To the point that if someone had, like yeah. I think I I I think for things like you know, I I think people use this sort of language of like, oh, yeah. I've I've raised I've raised some money from a few investors.

然后它

And it

结果发现，周围有朋友和家人，他们从父母那里得到了5万美元之类的。哦，好吧。我想我以前会会觉得‘从一些投资者那里筹集资金’这个说法是一个标志，哇，这超级正规。

turns out there was, like, friends and family around, and they got 50 k from mom and dad kind of thing. Oh, okay. I think I would have previously for for for found the phrase raised money from a few investors to be a mark of, well, like, woah. This is super legit.

是的。他们失去了一些投资者之类的。是的。是的。是的。

Yeah. They've lost some investors kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

是的。那可能意味着我

Yeah. That can mean I

认为我我一直对整个投资者的事情非常怀疑，因为我不太理解。比如，等等。人们会给你钱，然后你不会亏钱你会亏钱很长一段时间。最终，他们

think I I was I was always very skeptical about the whole, like, investor thing because I didn't quite get it. Like, wait. People are gonna give you money, and then you're not gonna lose you're gonna lose money for a very long time. And eventually, they're,

希望能把钱还给你

hope to pay you back

或者类似的意思。我觉得当时我还有很多无知的地方，比如我对销售完全一窍不通。

or something to that effect. I think also another thing that I had lot of ignorance around back in the day was so I I mean, absolutely nothing about sales.

好的。是的。

Okay. Yeah.

你知道，我对市场营销也知之甚少。所以销售和营销这两个词，对我来说，营销就像是，好吧，我猜你要放个广告牌，或者做个电视广告之类的。而销售这个词就像是，好吧，我猜你要...我甚至对销售没有任何概念模型，除了像是二手车销售员在本田经销商那样的印象。

You know, very little about marketing. And so the word sales and marketing, like, the the word marketing to me was like, okay. I guess you're gonna put out a billboard, or I guess you're gonna, I don't know, make a TV ad or something like that. And the word sales was like, okay. I guess you're gonna I I I didn't even have, like, a mental model for what sales was beyond, like, I guess, you know, a used car salesman in the, you know, the Honda dealership kind of thing.

是的。

Yeah.

我也没有委派和外包的概念模型，你知道，外包的意思就像是，哦，我猜你可以按照《每周工作4小时》里说的那样外包给菲律宾的虚拟助理。

Also had no model of delegation and outsourcing outs you know, outsourcing in in the sense of, like, oh, I guess you can outsource to VAs in The Philippines as per the four hour work week.

好的。

Okay.

但当我最初创建Six Med的时候，大概是2013年到2020年左右，嗯。你知道，我当时花了很多时间，如果我现在要指导十年前的自己，我会说，是的，兄弟，你90%的时间都在做运营工作，你应该把时间花在市场营销和

But when I was first building six med, like, 2013 to 2020 or whatever it was Mhmm. You know, I was spending like, now if I were to coach myself from back in from ten years ago, I would have say Yeah. Bro, you're spending 90% of your time doing operations. You should be spending your time doing marketing and

业务拓展

biz dev

负责课程交付。但你所有时间都花在运营上，我当时就觉得，我只是不知道那就是我正在做的事。把所有时间都花在行政事务、Google表格优化、给人发邮件等等

delivering the courses. But you're spending all your time in operations, I was like and I I like, I just didn't know that that's what I was doing. Spending all my time on admin and Google Sheet up up optimization and sending emails to people and all

这些破事上。是啊。没错。

this shit. Yeah. Yeah.

我以为那就是我必须做的，直到六年后——大概是2019年——我读了《E神话重温》才意识到，哦，这些事其实可以花钱请别人来做。

I thought that that's just what I had to do, and it it took six years later when I read the E Myth Revisited in, like, 2019, I realized, oh, this is a thing that I could pay someone else to do.

然后我

And I

确实花钱请别人来运营课程。但即便在最疯狂的梦里，我都没想到过可以雇人处理行政工作。而且我完全没有概念，比如——你知道——我的时间做这类事值多少钱。

was paying other people to run the courses. Yeah. Did not think in even in my wildest dreams that I could pay someone to do the admin. Yeah. And I had no model of, like, you know, my time is worth x doing this sort of thing.

这才是我真正能创造价值的地方。实际上，我通过成为——不知道怎么说——关键意见领袖，在学校演讲之类的，让自己走出去，围绕这些内容进行创作，从而招来更多学生。但我完全没意识到这些模式的存在。

This is where I can really add value. Actually, me bringing in more students through being, I don't know, the key person of influence, giving talks at schools and shit like that, and putting myself out there to be able to create content around this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I had no model that that any of that stuff was a thing.

所以我当时把所有时间都花在处理邮件和行政事务上。你知道，在大学时，我房间里会有朋友来玩，而我却突然意识到：糟糕。我们明天在曼彻斯特希尔顿酒店地下会议厅有个课程，但联邦快递本该送到那里的书还没到。所以我得立刻打给联邦快递24/7客服，质问他们这些书到底他妈在哪？结果对方说送货司机积分用完了。

So I was spending all my time doing emails and admin. And, you know, back in uni, I'd have people in my room just, like, hanging out, and I'd be like, oh, shit. We've got a course in Manchester in the Hilton hotel conference room in the basement, like, tomorrow, but the books that FedEx was supposed to send up there haven't haven't yet arrived. So I need to phone up FedEx twenty four twenty four seven right now to be like, guys, where the fuck is these books? And I'm like, oh, their delivery driver ran out of credits.

我就想：这关我什么事？送货司机积分用完了？什么意思？书本该昨天就到，现在还没到。学生们都要来参加这个活动了。

It's like, how how is that my problem? The the delivery driver ran out of credits. Like, what? The books were supposed to arrive yesterday, and they've not arrived yet. We've got students arriving at this thing.

所以当时我就...是啊。我一直在打电话处理这些行政杂事，现在回想起来觉得有点好笑，也觉得当时那种天真挺有趣的。

And so it's like Yeah. Yeah. I was I was on the phone doing all that admin and stuff, and now I kind of, like, chuckle at And kind of the naivety of of of all of that.

那在YouTube领域，你职业生涯早期有没有一些当时觉得特别正经、令你印象深刻，但现在不再重视的东西？或者说你现在能分清这个领域里什么是真正有意义有价值的，什么是虚张声势的？

And the on the YouTube stuff, when you were earlier in your career, was there stuff that you thought was like really legit and that you were impressed by that you now don't really value or, like, can sort of you you kinda know what's actually meaningful and valuable in the arena versus what's, smoke and mirrors.

没错。我以前对品牌合作特别崇拜。比如：哇！有人拿到赞助了？有人和公司合作了？

Yeah. I was I was very impressed by brand deals. Like, woah. Someone's got a sponsorship? Someone's partnering with a company?

这确实挺厉害的。这是实打实的收入。就像如果你开发产品，这就是获得了客户订单。这就是商业运作，对吧？

Like, that's I mean, is impressive. That's, like, revenue. That's like getting a if you if you build a product, that's like getting a getting a sale to a customer. That's like that's business. Right?

是的。但你要知道这里面有层级之分。我现在发现有很多公司会联系非常小型的YouTuber，付极低的报酬，然后暗示成为他们题库或什么产品的推广大使本身就是很有价值的事。他们严重低估了自己应得的报酬，诸如此类的情况。所以以前我觉得YouTuber一旦获得赞助就是成功了，但显然赞助这件事也有不同层级。没错。

Yeah. But, you know, there are levels and there are what I've what I found out now is that there are lots of companies that will reach out to really, really small YouTubers, pay them absolutely nothing, and say, sort of act as if being an ambassador for our question bank or for our whatever is like itself a valuable thing and massively, like, undercharge what they should be charging and, you know, all of all of all of this sort of stuff. I think pre yeah. So previously, I thought, like, a YouTuber has made it once they get sponsored by someone, but, obviously, there are levels of the sponsorship thing. Yeah.

是的。我觉得还有，当人们在Instagram上收到礼物时，我我以前常常

Yeah. I think also if when people got stuff gifted on Instagram, I I used to be

对此印象非常深刻。

very impressed by that.

是的。哇。有家公司免费送你这些东西，直到我收到一些Daniel Wellington的礼品，才意识到接受Daniel Wellington手表礼品背后所有的附加条件。

Yeah. Woah. A company has given you this thing for free until I got gifted some Daniel Wellington stuff and realized all the strings that are attached to it being gifted to Daniel Wellington watches.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

而且这其实也没那么了不起。当我刚开始的时候，我认识一个类似领域的人，比如帮助人们进入医学院，她有4000个订阅者。我当时想，哇。她有4000个订阅者。天哪。

And how it's not really that much of a thing. When I when I first started, I I knew someone who who was in a similar niche, like, helping people get into med school, who had 4,000 subscribers. I was like, woah. She's got 4,000 subscribers. Bloody hell.

太不可思议了。所以我的想法是，嘿。我相当确信我能制作出至少同样好、甚至更好的内容。所以也许有一天我也能有4000个订阅者。我当时就想，是的。

That's incredible. So my whole thing was like, hey. I'm pretty sure I can make content that's at least as good, if not better than this. So maybe someday I could be at 4,000 subscribers. And I was like Yeah.

你知道，一年后，如果我达到4000个订阅者，那会很酷。4000个人。是的。这就是我当年，2017年时的想法。

You know, a year a year from now, if I hit 4,000 subscribers, that'll be that'll be cool. 4,000 people. Yeah. So that's the stuff that I I was thinking back in the day, back in 2017.

是的。我认为在科技领域，这相当不错，因为有个人叫保罗·格雷厄姆，他写了很多文章，基本上是关于如何创办初创公司、什么才是真正重要的、什么是浪费时间等等。所以我觉得，即使你是第一次尝试，你也可以阅读所有这些内容，你会获得那种...是的。它能让你快速了解很多重要的东西，这样你就能关注正确的事情，而不去在意错误的事情。

Yeah. I think in tech, it's pretty good because there's a guy called Paul Graham who's written lots of essays about, like, basically about, like, you know, how to start a startup, what actually matters, what's a waste of time, etcetera, etcetera. And so I think, you know, if even if you are, you know, even if you you kind of it's your first rodeo, you can actually just read all of that stuff, and you will get the kind of, you know yeah. It can just kinda get you up to speed on, like, a lot of important stuff so that you you kind of care about the right things and don't care about the wrong things.

是的。我觉得，如果让我回想自己，如果让我倒转时钟十年，突然出现在2023年或2024年，我可能甚至不知道保罗·格雷厄姆是谁，还得去谷歌搜索正确的东西，因为我可能会想，哦，我猜我只能自己摸索，因为这是一家公司。初创公司很难。

Yeah. I think the like, if I if if I think of me, if I were to rewind the clock ten years and be plopped in the middle of twenty twenty three or twenty twenty twenty four, I may not even have known that Paul Graham was a person and watched to Google to find the right things because I might have thought, like, oh, I just I guess I just have to figure this out because this is a company. Startups are hard.

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

我可能不会想到去读一本关于它的书，或者两本、三本、四本、五本。你知道，我在互联网上卖东西已经十年了，甚至更久。而我从未读过一本关于销售和营销的书，除了去年我发现了.com的秘密和《1亿美元报价》之类的书。我当时想，天啊。我从第一天起就一直在试图从第一性原理来理解这些东西。

I may not have thought to read a book about it or two or three or four or five. It's like, you know, I've been selling stuff on the Internet for ten years, if not more. And I've never once read a book on sales and marketing other than, like, last year when I discovered .com secrets and, like, a $100,000,000 offers. And I was like, oh my goodness. I've been trying to figure this stuff out from first principles from day one.

为什么我没有决定去读一本关于这个话题的书，或者看一些做这件事的人的视频？我我想知道这在多大程度上是一种普遍的态度。就像，我对自己花了这么长时间才读一本关于销售和营销的书感到惊讶，而这彻底改变了我们销售东西的方式，因为就像，哦，好吧。我明白了。这其中有框架和方法。

Why did I not just decide to read a book on the topic and, like, just or watch a video from someone who does the thing? And I I I I wonder to what extent that's, like, a a common attitude amongst people. Like, I'm I'm amazed at myself that it took me so long to read a book on sales and marketing, and it just transformed the way that we sell stuff because it's like, oh, okay. I get it. There are there are there are and frameworks for this.

是的。那写书呢？显然，你最近写了这本书，很快就要出版了。我的意思是，在你开始写书的时候，你已经有了很好的人脉，可以和其他作者聊天，说，嘿，写书这整件事是怎么回事？

Yeah. What about, like, book writing? Obviously, you've written this book recently that's coming out pretty soon. Was there I mean, yeah, I guess at the point at which you started to write the book, you were well connected where you could, like, you know Yeah. Chat to other authors and say, yo, what's this whole book writing thing about?

是的。你是不是通过这种方式快速了解了整件事？或者，像是，有没有

Yeah. Was that is that kind of how you kinda got up to speed on, like, the whole the whole thing? Or, like, was there

你是不是就直接，直接完成了整个初稿，只是先尝试着写

did you just did you, do the whole first draft just taking a stab

而没有试图去，比如，你知道，了解这个领域的任何知识。

at it without trying to, like, you know, you know, learn anything about the the field.

是的。是的。基本上就是这样。说实话，如果我能给过去的自己一些建议的话。我读过几本书，比如《写作法宝》之类的，这些年断断续续读的，也听过一些采访，比如詹姆斯·克利尔在蒂姆·费里斯秀上的访谈，或者马克·曼森在某个节目上，还有朱利安·夏皮罗和几位作者的对话等等。

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much, actually. I don't I'd again, if I could coach myself from back then. I had read a couple of books, like, on writing well and things like that just, like, over the years and had listened to interviews of, like, you know, James Clear on Tim Ferriss Show or, like, Mark Manson on whatever or, I don't know, Julian Shapiro talking to a few authors and things.

我当时就想，好吧。不错。我听过一些播客，作者们谈论他们的写作过程。我读过《写作法宝》。是的。

I was like, okay. Cool. I've I've listened to a handful of podcasts with authors talking about, you know, their writing process. I've read On Writing Well. Yeah.

好吧。我想差不多就这些。我希望三年前开始写书时能做的是，比如找个人聊聊，深入了解写书的具体细节。当时我看到的唯一分享这方面内容的人是瑞安·霍利迪，他有那个卡片系统之类的东西，但看起来太复杂了。所以我就想，算了。

Okay. I guess that's about it. What I wish I had done three and a half years ago when I started writing the book was, like, speak to someone, like and just go into into the nuts and bolts of what does it look like to put a book together. And the only person who'd made content about that that I I saw at the time was Ryan Holiday who had his I don't He's got this, like, note card system and stuff, but that seemed too elaborate. So I was like, okay.

我只是

I'm just

打算忽略那种方法，比如自己埋头研究之类的。但我不知道写书的Zoom屏幕共享版本具体是什么样的。我只知道詹姆斯·克利尔在蒂姆·费里斯秀上谈论的高层次版本。是的。因为他显然不会深入细节。

gonna gonna just ignore that slash, like, do it in, like, room research or something. But I didn't I didn't know what the screen share, like, Zoom screen share version of writing a book looked like. I just knew the high level the sort of things that James Clear would talk about on the Tim Ferriss Show, high level version of writing a book look like. Yeah. Because, obviously, he's not gonna go into the nuts and bolts.

我真希望我当初

And I wish I'd

是啊。

Yeah.

能跟着别人学习具体的操作细节，因为那会让我意识到，

Shadowed someone to look at the nuts and bolts of it because it would have helped me realize,

哦，是啊。

oh Yeah.

你在用文献管理软件。靠，这主意真棒。我直到两年后才开始用，之前一直试图手动管理PDF文件。后来是在一次偶然的对话中，和一个YouTube上的朋友聊天时，他问我：'你用什么文献管理工具？'

You're using a reference manager. Shit. That's a good idea. I only started using that two years into the journey because I was trying to keep track of PDFs until then. And it took it was a random conversation with, like, a random YouTuber friend to be like where he asked me, you know, what's what's your reference manager?

我说：'我2015年读医学院时用过Mendeley。'然后他问：'那你这本书的参考文献是怎么管理的？'我说：'你听说过Zotero吗？'我说：'没听过。'他说：'好吧，你现在立刻需要下载这个软件。'

And I was like, I used Mendeley in 2015 when I was in med school, and she and he was how are you keeping track of your references for this book? And I was like, was like, have you heard of Zotero? I was like, no. He was like, okay. You need to download this thing right now.

我当时就想：'天啊，为什么我两年前不知道这个？是啊，是啊，是啊。'

And I was like, oh my god. Why did I not know this two years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

所以我觉得这类东西。哦，sim 对。对。我觉得我觉得就是这个。事情是这样的。

So I think that that sort of stuff. Oh, sim yeah. Yeah. I think I think this is it. Here's the thing.

对吧？我我也觉得这是当前市场的一个巨大空白，就像，YouTube上有大量的人在创作关于如何发展业务的内容。大家都在关注Alex Wormozi的动向，我认识的每个富有的企业家都在想，会不会

Right? I I also think this is such a gap in the market right now in terms of like, there are loads of people on YouTube trying to create content about, like, how to grow a business. People everyone's realizing about seeing what Alex Wormozi is doing, and every, like, rich entrepreneur that I know is like, would the

下一个，Alex Wormozi是谁啊，老兄？

next Who's Alex Wormozi, mate?

那是谁？你不怎么看商业类的YouTube内容吧。这就像...好吧，让我试着解释一下，Alex Wormozi。他是一个身材极其健壮的33岁的人，做关于如何建立一个价值1亿美元企业的内容。

Who's that? You don't spend a lot of time on business YouTube. Is this like okay. Let me try to explain that, Alex Wormozi. He's this absolutely jacked 33 year old who does content about building a $100,000,000 business.

他至今已经写了两本书，《1亿美元的报价》和《1亿美元的线索》，这两本都非常非常棒。他的东西真的很靠谱。他会在会议上做长达一小时的主题演讲之类的，他就是非常务实，非常直接。砰。砰。

And he's written two books so far, a $100,000,000 offers and a $100,000,000 leads, which are both really, really good. His stuff is really legit. He'll he does, like, hour long keynotes at conferences and stuff, he'll he's just, like, very no nonsense, very, like right. Bang. Bang.

砰。他能建立企业。你懂吧？

Bang. He's able build business. You know?

那他的...所以他看起来是acquisition.com的。那是他的

So what's his is he so it looks like he's acquisition.com. Is that his

是的。他的商业模式是通过免费内容帮助你达到300万美元的收入。一旦你达到300万美元收入，他就会收购你公司的一部分股份，并帮助它增长到3000万美元或类似规模。这样他通过内容获得交易流。但他是如今创业圈最热门的人物。

Yeah. His business model is that he his free content helps you get helps you to get to 3,000,000 revenue. And once you're at 3,000,000 revenue, then he wants to acquire a portion of your company and help it grow to 30,000,000 or something like that. So he gets a deal flow through his content. But he's like he's like the hottest thing in entrepreneurship these days.

很多业务都超出了B2B SaaS科技领域。他在那个领域并不那么出名。更多的是实体业务，比如普通企业、服务型企业之类的。

A lot of it is kind of outside of the b to b SaaS tech world. He's not that huge in that department. It's a it's lot of, like, bricks and mortar, like, a normal business, like a service business or,

是的。

Yeah.

没错。比如健身房之类的业务。但人们都说他通过短视频和长视频内容在过去几年爆红，提供关于如何发展业务的建议。有些内容很高阶，有些则很基础。很多人都想加入这个领域，因为很多退出后的创始人都觉得：嘿，

Yeah. Don't know, gym, gym, you know, that kind of thing. But people are saying but he's he's blown up over the last couple of years with a short form content as long form content, giving advice on how to grow businesses. And it's, like, some of it is high level and some of it is nuts and bolts y. But loads of people are trying to get in on that because a lot of, like, post exit founders are like, hey.

我掌握了所有这些关于业务增长的知识，不如我就做YouTube视频分享之类的。但没有人做的是Zoom屏幕共享。没有人展示你的Google表格实际长什么样，当你展示OKR和KPI时，你到底是怎么跟踪所有这些数据的？因为这就是我甚至六个月前或一年前都还缺少的东西。是的。

I've got all this knowledge about growing a business, so let me just make YouTube videos about it and, you know, things like that. But what no one is doing is doing the Zoom screen shares. What no one is doing is doing, like, a let's see what your Google Sheet actually looks like when you're showing your OKRs and KPIs and, like, how the freak are you tracking all these numbers and things? Because that is what I was missing even, you know, as late as six months ago or a year ago. Yeah.

我读过约翰·杜尔关于OKR的书，理论上我知道这个概念，但观看别人实际操作时的屏幕共享是完全不同的体验，当你

I'd read John Doerr's book about OKRs, and I knew the concept in theory, but there's something about watching a screen share of someone doing the thing where you're

是啊，确实。

like, yeah.

天啊。原来是这样的。不一样。是的。是的。

Oh my goodness. That's what it looks like. Different. Yeah. Yeah.

我明白了。这就是你的仪表盘的样子。很酷。所以现在我遇到创业者时，我就会说，是的。

I get it. That's what that's what your dashboard looks like. Cool. So now when I meet entrepreneurs, I'm like, yeah.

你们有仪表盘吗？

Do guys have dashboards?

他们就说，当然有。我就问，能让我看看吗？这能给我一些灵感，因为我还在...哦，是的。

And they're like, of course. I'm like, can I have a look? It just gives me ideas because I still Oh, yeah.

数据点不够。内部仪表盘。是的。是的。是的。

Don't enough data points. Internal dashboards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

是的。超爱这玩意儿。

Yeah. Love that shit.

是的。看到这些真的很有趣，比如，内部项目管理和仪表盘，还有，是的，这类的东西。是的。

Yeah. It's really it's really fun to see, like, yeah, internal project management and dashboards and, yeah, these kinds of things for Yeah.

而且没有人会在YouTube视频上展示那些东西。所以，这是一个巨大的机会，对这里的任何人来说，都可以成为真正的实战商业教练。是的。真希望我刚开始的时候就能找你咨询这个。

And no one shows that stuff on on, like, YouTube videos. So so massive Yeah. Opportunity any for anyone anyone here to actually be the nuts and bolts business coach. Yeah. So I wish I'd seen you about that when I got started.

这个这个，就像，这个影子跟随/屏幕共享的事情，它可以为很多人节省大量时间，因为在开始Causal之前，我在一家叫Retool的公司工作了大约八个月左右。你知道，创始人和我是大学同学。所以，是的，我加入他们了一段时间。那八个月对我来说最有价值的事情就是能在房间里听创始人进行销售电话。你只是听着，就像，你知道，一堆销售电话在房间里实时进行，然后我也尝试着打了几个。

This this the the, like, the the shadowing slash screen sharing thing, it could save a lot of people a lot of a lot of time because so before before starting causal, I I worked at this company called retool for, like, eight months or something. You know, the founders and I were uni together. And so, yeah, I kind of joined them for a bit. And it was, yeah, probably, the most valuable the most valuable thing from that eight months for me was just being in the room while the founders did sales calls. You're just hearing, like, a, you know, sales call a bunch of sales calls live in the room and, like, you know, trying my hand at a couple.

仅仅是听销售电话的氛围，基本上就是那种感觉，本身就非常有价值。然后观察整个过程，比如看邮件跟进的过程，做外联，以及在邮件里说什么。你知道，就是深入到销售的基础细节中。

Just that itself of just, like, hearing how the call you know, how a sales call kinda yeah. Just like what the vibe is, basically. Just that was unbelievably valuable. And then watching the process of, like, watching, like, the emailing process of, like, sending email follow ups and doing outbound and, like, what kind of stuff do you say in an hour. You know, just like the really in the weeds of, like, really just sales basics.

就像亲身接触那个实时过程并参与其中，我认为可能节省了我们六到十二个月的时间来掌握那些东西，或者弄清楚从哪里学习。所以当我们开始Causal时，我知道该死的Calendly是什么。就像，太好了。我们要做的第一件事就是设置Calendly，设置这个东西。接下来我们要设置一个邮件自动化，这样当有人注册我们的等待列表或什么的时候，他们会收到三封邮件的序列。

Just like being exposed to that live and kind of being part of that process was, like, I I think probably saved would you know, it would have taken us six to twelve months to, like, pick those things up or, like, figure out where to pick those things up or whatever. Like and so when we started causal, like, I knew what I knew what freaking Calendly was. And it was like, great. The first thing we're gonna do is set up a Calendly, set up this thing. The next thing we're gonna do is we're gonna set up an email automation so that when someone signs up to our waiting list or whatever, they get a sequence of three emails.

一封初始邮件，之后每两天跟进两封，我们发送这个该死的Calendly链接让他们上初始电话。而且，我们知道销售电话大概是什么样的，对吧？否则我们会花很长时间才

An initial email with two follow ups after two days each, and we send them this freaking Calendly link to get them on an initial call. And, like, we know what the sales call kind of you know? So it would have taken us so long just to

搞清楚那些东西。太疯狂了。是的，是的，伙计。我觉得这是

figure figure that stuff out. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, mate. I think this is

有一个

there's a

这里面有很多真理。而且这就是那种，嗯，没人谈论的事情。我想人们确实会谈论它，因为他们会说，你知道，经验很有价值，雇佣有经验的人很有价值。丹·普里斯特利经常说，如果你想创业，最好的方法就是在一家员工少于10人的公司工作两年，因为你在这个过程中会学到很多无形的巨大收获。

lot of truth in this stuff. And this is the thing that, like, yeah, that no one talks about. And I guess I guess people do talk about it because they say that, like, you know, experience is valuable and hiring people with experience is valuable. And, you know, something Dan Priestley often says is, like, if you wanna start a startup, the best thing you can do is work for a business that has fewer than 10 employees and do that for two years because the intangibles that you'll you'll pick up along the way are huge.

是的。

Yeah.

而人们反而有这种观点，比如我想创业，所以我要加入麦肯锡做两年顾问。但实际上，你对损益表没有任何了解，除了你作为机器中的一个小齿轮之外，你对其他任何事情都没有可见性。是的。

Whereas people instead have this view of like, I wanna start a startup. Therefore, I'm gonna join McKinsey and work as a consultant for two years. Well, actually, you have no visibility over the P and L. You have no visibility of anything beyond like the the small cog in the machine that you are out there. Yeah.

所以在所有这些不同的无形技能方面，学习收获要少得多。是的。比如如何发送邮件，销售电话是什么样的。甚至在我们谈论这个的时候，我意识到，你知道，我们即将推出一个生产力教练社区类型的东西。我们之前通过我们的YouTuber学院做过类似的事情，并且已经做了两年多了。

And so the learning is a lot less in terms of all of these different intangibles. Yeah. Like how to send an email and what a sales call looks like. And even as we're talking about this, I'm realizing, you know, we're about to launch like a productivity coaching community type situation. We've And kind of done it before with our YouTuber academy and been doing that for like two plus years.

所以我们大致了解这个过程，但实际上这和我们做的其他事情不同。而且我确实认识很多人，他们正在做我们想要做的事情。所以我可以直接和他们通话，或者让团队和他们通话，就像，嘿。是的。我们可以进行Zoom屏幕共享。比如，你的东西是什么样的？

So we kind of know the process, but actually this is different than other stuff that we're doing. And I do in fact know a lot of people who are literally doing the thing that we are trying to So I could just hop on calls with them or get a team to hop on calls with them to be like, hey. Yeah. We could do a Zoom screen share. Like, what does your what does your thing look like?

是的。因为至少对我来说，这不是一个会想到的事情。你知道，实际上公平地说，嗯，是的。亚历克斯·沃莫齐经常在他的内容中谈到的是，弄清楚你现在在哪里，弄清楚你想去哪里，然后找出谁在那里，谁已经完成了从你所在位置到你想要位置的跳跃，去和他们谈谈。就像，不惜一切代价。

Yeah. Because it's it's not a thing that, at least for me, it's not a thing that comes to mind. You know, actually, in fairness, like, well Yeah. Well, one thing Alex Wamozi often talks about in his in his content is, like, you know, figure out where you are right now, figure out where you wanna be, then figure out who is out there, who has done that jump from where you are to where you wanna be, and go and talk to them. Like, do whatever it takes.

飞去找他们。是的。和他们一起玩。比如，参加他们的智囊团。是的。

Fly to them. Yeah. Hang out with them. Like, attend their mastermind. Yeah.

花5万块钱和他们交流，如果这是必要的话，从长远来看会让你赚回远超这个数额的钱，因为通过与真正经历过这个过程的人交谈，你能省去大量麻烦。

Paying 50 k to hang out with them, if that's what it takes, is gonna make you way more money than that in the long term because of the amount of hassle you'll save by actually speaking to someone who's been through the process.

是的，当然。我们怎么开始这个？是在说日历应用的事情吗？

Yeah. For sure. How do we get onto this? Are we talking about the calendar app thing?

哦，第二次创业的创始人，Chrome扩展程序。

Oh, second time founders, Chrome extension.

是啊，是啊，是啊。这很有趣，老兄。从零开始做点什么真的有种奇妙的魔力，就是那种感觉。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun, man. There's something really magical about starting something from from zero and just yeah.

我觉得我们也都，就像，在同一个频道上，对于这个v1版本需要多复杂的程度有共识。而我觉得，比如五或十年前，可能就会想得太复杂了。而这次，我的意思是，我们没怎么讨论就决定了，比如，好吧，你知道，在圣诞节那几天推出第一个版本之前，我们想要做到多深入？而确实，我觉得五或十年前的话，可能就会，嗯……

I feel like we're all also just, like, on the same pay like, on the same page about, like, what level of complexity is required for this v one. Whereas I think, like, five or ten years ago, probably, like, way over thought it. Whereas, like, I think just I mean, it it took very little discussion for us to decide, like, okay. What, you know, what what's you know, how how deep do we wanna go before launching this, like, first thing over a couple of days over Christmas? Whereas, yeah, I think, like, five or ten years ago, it would have been, like yeah.

我们可能就会陷入各种死胡同和随机的事情，过度思考一堆问题，过度设计一堆功能，而且是你和CEO一起。等等，让我找找那张照片。不过是的，我等等。

We have probably just gone down, like, loads of rabbit holes and random stuff and overthought a bunch of things and over engineered a bunch of things, and it was your boy with CEO. Wait. Let me find the picture. But yeah. I wait.

那么这是怎么回事？我以为是在28号发布。为什么Waterstones比你们先行动了还是怎么回事？是的。

So what's the deal with that? I thought it was getting released on the on the twenty eighth. Why is Waterstones front running you or whatever? Yeah.

实际上，显然，发生了，就像，你知道，我们跟编辑提过这个。他就说，哦，对。确实有这么回事。

Actually, apparently, happens, like, you know, we mentioned this to our editor. He was like, oh, yeah. This is a thing.

哦，对。就是那种事情。

Oh, yeah. That kind of stuff.

是啊。有道理。所以我开始注意到...哦，真的吗？

Yeah. Fair. And so I'm starting I'm starting to see pick Oh, really?

不错。是的。是的。

Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

是的。是的。所以它就在

Yeah. Yeah. So it it was on

那种...看起来好像有一个类似的生产力书架。在生产力的那一排，有你的书、《原子习惯》、《如何改变你的生活》，还有《CEO日记》。不错。在它上面的书架，我在想是什么主题。有马克·曼森的《不在乎的精妙艺术》。

the sort of it's It seems like there's kind of like a sort of like a productivity shelf. So on the productivity road, there's like yours, atomic habits, how to change your life, and diary of a CEO. Nice. On the shelf above it, I'm trying to think of the theme. There's Mark Manson's subtle art of not giving a fuck.

还有一本叫《黑人女孩无魔法》的书。从我拍的那个模糊的书架照片里看不太清楚它是讲什么的。还有朱迪·史密斯医生的《为什么以前没人告诉我这个》。

There is a book called black girl no magic. I can't quite make out what it's about from the sort of blurry picture I took of the shelf. There's why has nobody told me this before from doctor Judy Smith.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

然后还有一本书叫《淘气中的有毒女性名声》。所以我我我不太清楚节目剩下的主题是什么，但看起来你的你的那一排像是生产力主题。

And then there's a book called toxic women fame in the naughty. So I I I don't really know the theme of the rest of the show, but it seems like your your row is like the productivity theme.

不错。嘿，老兄。

Nice. Hey, man.

是啊。你对此感觉如何？

Yeah. How are you feeling about it?

我对此感觉如何？

How am feeling about it?

那个，我想上次我们聊天时，你我们在讨论，比如，《纽约时报》榜单和预售情况，以及你觉得如果没上榜之类的，会是一次很好的品格塑造经历。

What's the I think last time when we chatted, you were we were talking about, like, the New York Times list and getting the preorders and how, you know, you think it'd be good, you know, good character building experience if you don't get on the list and stuff.

那个是啊。最新情况怎么样了？是啊。从那以后我就没太仔细想过。我觉得就像箭已经离弦，离目标如此之近，我现在已经无法影响它的轨迹了。

What's the Yeah. What's the latest on that? Yeah. I haven't really thought too hard about it since then. I think it's like the the arrow is now squarely out of the bow and so close to the target that there is, like, nothing I can do to influence its its course now.

好的。是的。是的。是的。

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

所以现在我的全部想法就是享受这个过程。比如，收到出版社的邮件说，嘿，你知道，数据上涨了，我们在亚马逊的排名是这样。我就觉得，酷，这听起来很合理。

And so now my my whole thing is I'm just trying to enjoy the ride. Like, you know, getting emails from the publisher being like, hey. You know, the numbers are up, and our Amazon ranking is this. And I'm like, cool. That sounds sounds reasonable.

昨天还收到一封邮件说，嘿，你知道吗，实际上我们已经达成了33个非英语的翻译协议。

Got an email yesterday being like, hey. You know, we're actually being we've got 33 translation deals so far outside of English.

哇。

Woah.

好的。所以在2024年的不同时间点，你知道，这本书的所有不同翻译版本将会以各种

Okay. So at various points in 2024, the you know, all of the different translations of the books of the book are coming out in very

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

这八种...六种印地语变体，比如简体中文、繁体中文、日语、意大利语、西班牙语,

The eight the six varieties of Hindi, like simplified Chinese, complex Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Spanish,

法语、德语,

French, German,

全套都有了。这感觉挺酷的。开始看到不同语言版本的封面图片了。烦人的是，法语版的封面用了我的照片，但那是张很老的照片，他们试图把我从背景里抠出来，效果有点粗糙。哦，不。

whole shebang. It's like, that's kinda cool. Starting to see pictures of the book cover in different languages. Annoyingly, the French cover has my face on it, but it's like a really old photo where they've tried to kind of cut me out of the background, and it's it's a bit jank. Oh, no.

法国出版商说,

The French publisher was like,

你能做什么呢？

what do you have do?

你没有

You don't

在这方面没有发言权吗？

don't get a say in that?

没有。我的意思是，我或许可以和他们通个电话，试着说服他们为什么把我的脸放在封面上是个坏主意。但是，你知道，他们专门负责在他们地区销售图书，所以这方面他们比我更懂。所以，是啊。这一切都在发生，老兄。

No. I mean, I could probably hop on a call with them and try and convince them why my face on the cover is bad idea. But, like, you know, they're they specialize in selling books in their territory, so they know this stuff more so than I would. And so Yeah. It's all it's all happening, man.

这有点奇怪。是的。确实有点奇怪。我只是，我只是真心希望它是好的。嗯，改天我们应该做一期播客节目，让阿里·阿布达尔朗读他书的负面评论。

It's kinda weird. Yeah. It is kinda weird. I'm just like, I just just actually hope it's good. Well, one of these days, we should do a Ali Abdall reads negative reviews of his book, a podcast episode.

哦，是的，伙计。是的。我们应该做。

Oh, yes, mate. Yes. We should.

我们应该看看那会是什么样子。因为我，我，我犯了个错误——好吧，其实也不算是个错误。我，我，我碰巧在Goodreads上看了看，因为我在找别的东西，然后我看到，我开始收到一些关于这本书的评论。我当时就想，哦，等等。

And we should see what that what that's like. Because I I I made the mistake of well, it it wasn't really a mistake. I I I happened to look on Goodreads because I was, like, looking for something else, and I saw that, like, I'd started to get some reviews of the book. And I was like, oh, wait a minute.

等等。等等。真的吗？我们要吗？是的。

Wait. Wait. Really? Are we? Yeah.

因为出版商已经

Because the publisher has

已经发送了，嘿。什么都别告诉我，因为我不想知道。你尽管读五星好评，但我不想知道评分是多少，我也不想知道任何低于五星的评论

sent has sent, hey. Don't tell me anything because I I don't wanna know. Feel feel feel free to read a a five star review, but I don't I don't wanna know what the rating is, I don't wanna know any less than five star reviews

现在。

right now.

我会我会稍微看一下这些。

I'll I'll look at those a little bit.

哦，不错。

Oh, nice.

但我看到了评分，也看到了一些评论。我当时就想，等等。哇。人们已经人们已经留下了评论。我看了看，看到了49

But I saw the rating, and I saw some reviews. I was like, wait. Woah. People have people have left reviews. And I looked, and I saw the 49

条评论。有49条评论了，伙计。

reviews. There's 49 reviews, mate.

那相当不错了。

That's pretty good.

已经有78个评分和49条评论了。哇。

There's 78 ratings and 49 reviews already. Wow.

是的。然后我我我看到，比如，一个三星评论来自某个家伙，一个专业书评人，他说，我我可能不是这本书的目标受众，但是然后然后我就想，天啊。这太糟糕了。然后我跟我的经纪人提了这件事，因为当时我正在悉尼和她共进晚餐。她就说，哦，别担心Goodreads上的评价。

Yeah. And I I I saw, like, one three star review from some guys, a specialist book reviewer, being like, I'm I'm probably not the target audience for this, but and then and then I was like, oh my god. This is terrible. And then I mentioned it to my agent because I was having dinner with her in Sydney. And she was like, oh, don't worry about Goodreads.

人们在Goodreads之类的平台上往往比实际情况更加苛刻。现在整个环境就是这样，我听过其他作者也讨论过这个问题，所以我很好奇自己会有什么反应。但你知道，阅读负面评论总是让人感觉不好。到某个时候你会意识到，甚至不值得去读它们，因为现在已经超出你的控制范围了，所有这些事情都是如此。

People are often more critical than is warranted on Goodreads and stuff. So now there's that whole thing around, like and I I've heard other other authors talk about this, and so I'm I'm curious as to what my own reactions will be, but the whole, like, you know, reading negative reviews always makes you feel bad. And so you realize at some point that it's not even worth reading them because it's out of your control now and, you know, all all of this stuff.

是啊。

So Yeah.

我们拭目以待吧。

We'll see.

不过这挺有意思的。我本来以为，你在互联网上创作内容已经有大概六年左右了，应该已经对负面评论免疫了。但我想，是不是因为这本书对你来说是一种全新的东西？所以你仍然，嗯...

But that's that's interesting. So I would have thought that, like, you know, from creating content on the Internet for the last, like, don't six years or whatever. You'd be, you know, you'd be over the whole, negative reviews thing. But I guess, is it basically that, like, the book is like a kind of, you know, a new a new thing for you? And so it's still, like, you're you're still, like, a sort of yeah.

是这样吗？

Is that it?

是的。我觉得基本上就是这样。我花了这么长时间在这上面，倾注了大量的心血。而且，这也是我第一次写书。

Yeah. I think it's it's pretty much that. It's like, I spent so long working on this. I've poured poured a lot of my heart and soul into this thing. And also, it's my first time writing a book.

所以我有一部分想法是：哦，糟了。万一这本书不好怎么办？万一所有人都在吹捧我，当编辑、出版商、经纪人和反馈人员都说'真的很棒'时，其实都是在哄我？万一所有这些都不是真的，这本书其实很烂，而人们现在才发现呢？

So there is part of me that's like, oh, shit. What if it's not any good? And what if everyone's a blowing air up my ass when the editors and the publishers and the agents and the feedback people were like, yeah. It's really good. It's like, what if all of that is not in fact true and the book is in fact shit, and people are just finding out about it now?

就像那种冒名顶替综合症的感觉。

It's like that whole impostor syndrome thing.

啊，好吧。行。嗯。嗯。该死。

Ah, okay. Fine. Yeah. Yeah. Damn.

好吧。嗯。

Okay. Yeah.

也许几周后，我们

Maybe in a few weeks, we

可以做一期节目。嗯。几周后。嗯。伙计。

could do an episode. Yeah. Few weeks. Yeah. Mate.

伙计。哦，伙计。这太有趣了。好吧。嗯。

Mate. Oh, mate. This is so interesting. Okay. Yeah.

我不会再要一杯了。

I'm not gonna have another one.

是的。所以都是好评。有亚马逊的评论。我还没看亚马逊的评论。实际上，我不

Yeah. So it's good reviews. There's Amazon reviews. I've I've not looked at the Amazon reviews yet. Actually, don't I

不知道

don't know

你可以发布亚马逊评论。我不知道你现在能不能发布亚马逊评论，因为我觉得只有书上市后才能发布，但我还没看。所以是的。

you can post Amazon reviews. I don't know if you can post Amazon reviews yet because I think you can only do that when the book is out, but I'm I haven't looked. So yeah.

是的。没有亚马逊评论，老兄。

Yeah. There's no Amazon reviews, mate.

这一切都很有趣。一切都在发生。然后理论上，我两天后会上澳大利亚的日间电视节目。

It's all it's all it's all interesting. It's all it's all happening. And then in in theory, I'm gonna be on daytime TV in Australia two days from now.

哦，真的吗？那次取消后，是推迟了吗？

Oh, really? After that got canceled, did it get postponed?

是的，被推迟了。因为原定三天前录制那天昆士兰州有洪水，所以取消了。但现在据说改在节礼日早上进行了。或者他们会问我。

It got put yeah. I got canceled because there were floods in Queensland on the day that was meant to be, like, three days ago. Yeah. But it's been it's now happening on Boxing Day in the morning, apparently. Or they can ask me.

所以，阿里，你知道，对于新年或者类似的事情，你有什么提高效率的专业建议吗？我需要准备好我的精彩片段，为播客发言。

So, Ali, you know, what are your pro tips of productivity for the New Year or something to that effect? So I need to get my sound bites ready and, like, speak for the podcast.

是的。是的。好的。对。日间电视节目是怎么回事？

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. What's what's the deal with what's the deal with, like, daytime TV segments?

你能稍微透露一下幕后情况吗？你的节目时长是多少？你能得到多少时间？在节目中有多少分钟？

Can you, like, peel peel the back the curtain a little bit? So how long is your segment? Like, what do you get? How how many minutes do you get on on the air?

我想大概四分钟。大约四分钟。

I think about four. About four minutes.

四分钟。是的。你会坐在沙发上吗？是那种氛围吗？你会坐在沙发上四分钟？

Four minutes. Yeah. And you're gonna be like are you gonna be, like, sitting on the couch? Is that is that the vibe? You'll be, like, sitting on the couch for four minutes?

是的。我想是的。所以两天后要上的是《今日秀》，是澳大利亚的节目，有点像澳大利亚版的BBC早餐节目。是的。是的。

Yeah. I think so. So the one that's happening on two days from now is the Today Show, which is Australian it's it's sort like BBC Breakfast but for Australia. Yeah. Yeah.

当他们请人上节目时，会让他们坐在沙发上。他们会做节目流程，可能会转向我这边问几个问题，然后无缝衔接下一个环节，还有计时器倒计时之类的。所以我不确定。这会是一次新的体验。

When they bring people on, they'll bring them on the couch. They'll, like, do the thing and probably turn to me on the side and ask me a few questions and then, like, seamlessly segue into the next thing with the timer counting down and stuff. So I don't know. It'll be a Yeah. New experience.

前几天我和美国出版商进行了一次媒体培训的Zoom视频会议。他们基本上是这样说的

I had a bit of a media training Zoom call with The US publisher, like, a few days ago. And they were saying basically that

嗯。

Yeah.

他们说了什么？这些日间电视节目的运作方式是，主持人的工作就是给你抛些简单问题。就像，你知道的，我们可以问些什么有趣的问题？而你作为作者或发言人的任务是做到简洁、有趣、有帮助，即使没有具体回答他们提出的问题。因为他们其实并不在乎你是否回答了问题，他们在乎的是你能吸引观众并对观众有用。

What what did they say? These daytime TV segments work is that they're the the job of the host is to just feed you softballs. Just like, you know, what's something interesting that we can ask? And your job as the author or as as the person doing the talking is to be concise, be interesting, and be helpful, even if it's not specifically answering the questions that they've asked. Because they don't actually care about you answering They the care about you, you know, being engaging and useful for their viewers.

是的。就像他们的工作是向你提问，而你的工作是把你想传达的三个要点带回家，因为这些才是值得观众带走的有价值内容。所以我们当时排练了一些内容，做了几次模拟演练，比如'奥利，你的书是关于什么的？'然后我就说，嗯，巴拉巴拉，你知道，就是那种情况。

Yeah. It's like their job is to throw your questions. Your job is to, you know, bring home the three points that you care about bringing home because those are the the valuable things to to take away. And so we were, like, rehearsing some of that and kinda doing a few dry runs of like, so, Ollie, what's your book about? And it's like, well, blah blah blah blah, you know, the you know, that that sort of thing.

嗯。嗯。嗯。嗯。好的。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

那么举个例子，显然你是去宣传你的书的。他们邀请你是因为你有新书要出版。这个流程有多剧本化？他们会基本上给你发个清单说'嘿，这就是我们要问你的问题'吗？

And so for example, like, you know, obviously, you are there to, you know, you are there to promote your book. They are having you on because you have a book coming out. Like, how scripted is it? Like, do they basically send you a list and say, hey. This this is what we're gonna ask you.

你知道，请准备好一些好的回答之类的。还是说其实没那么剧本化？

You know, please have some good answers ready or something. Or is it, like, not that it's not that scripted?

是的。好的。所以这些电视节目的每个环节都有一位制作人。比如我也在做一个AWS的电视节目，制作人给我发了封邮件，里面有五个大致的问题，这些就是他们可能会问你的那类问题。

Yeah. Okay. So the so each of these TV shows has a producer for each segment. And so the producer, like, I'm doing an AWS TV show as well. The pro I'm sort of in the the producer has sent me an email with five questions of, roughly, these are the sort of sorts of things that they're gonna ask you.

但到了当天，嗯…根据现场情况，节目主持人可能会脱离剧本，或者按计划进行。如果他们特别感兴趣，可能会说“哦，我孩子其实在看你的YouTube频道”，天哪，你知道这就是即兴发挥，你得随机应变。

But then on the day, like Mhmm. Depending on what happens, the host of the show could go off script, or they could stick to the stick to the plan. Or if they're, like, super interested, they might say, oh, my kid actually watches your YouTube channel. Oh my goodness. Like, you know, which is off script, and you just have to kinda roll with it.

没错。但核心是制作人会规划好环节，并提前告知你大致会问到哪些方面。

Yep. But the idea is that the producer plans out the segment and says gives you a heads up to be like, roughly, these are the things that they're gonna wanna ask you about.

好的。明白。是的。是的。是的。

Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

所以，

And so,

挺有意思的。

like Interesting.

所以你准备了一些想要传达的、经过排练的说辞之类的。你已经做了吗？接下来几天会练习吗？还是没那么复杂，到了这个阶段你可以即兴发挥，因为你对这个话题已经足够熟悉了。

And so you have a few, like, spiels that you wanna get across that you've kind of rehearsed and stuff like that. Have you done that yet? Are you gonna be, like, practicing over the next couple of days? Is it not that deep? And you at this at this point, you can kinda just spitball it because, you know, you know, you've talked about it enough.

或者

Or

是的。我的意思是，我我其实没有怎么排练过那些说辞。我我我也不想排练，因为我不想显得太刻意。我我大概知道整个脉络是怎样的，比如如果他们问这本书是怎么诞生的？脉络就是：我作为一名医生感到不堪重负。

Yeah. I mean, I I haven't really rehearsed the spiels very much. I I I also don't want to because I don't wanna come across as rehearsed. I I kind of know what the arc is of, know, if they ask how did the book come about? The arc is, I was overwhelmed as a doctor.

我发现我可以改变工作方式。我发现了'感觉良好生产力'。就这样。他们可能会问，你父母对你离开医学界去做YouTube博主有什么看法？我会即兴发挥一下，是的。

I discovered that I could change the approach to my work. I discovered feel good productivity. Boom. They might ask, how did your parents feel about you leaving medicine to be a YouTuber? I'll spitball that Yeah.

是的。他们可能会问，你知道，观众在新的一年里能从中获得什么，那个要点会是：看看你在做什么？找到享受过程的方法，因为那才是最重要的。我喜欢我我知道我知道答案是什么，所以我会即兴发挥，试着用心去连接，你知道，当天直接说出来。

Yeah. They might ask, you know, what's what what what's one thing that viewers can take away for the new year and that that thing is gonna be like, look. What have you doing? Find a way to enjoy the process because that's what matters. I like I I know I know what the answer is, so I'll just sort of spitball it and try and try and connect with the heart and soul and, you know, speak it up on the day.

是的。不错。太棒了，兄弟。这太酷了。那么，你会在不同的地方做一些日间电视节目之类的事情吗？

Yeah. Nice. Sick, man. That's so cool. What about, like so you're you're doing a few daytime TV show type things like that in different places.