野牛学（水牛）返场特辑，多位野牛学家齐聚

因此它们的体型逐渐变小，演变成我们现在所知的现代美洲野牛。

So they became smaller in size and became what we know as the modern bison bison.

我们认为这很大程度上可能与环境的改变有关。

And we think a lot of that might have to do with, just changes in the environment.

当时的气候正逐渐变得干燥。

The the, the climate was was drying out somewhat.

植被也在变化，营养价值有所降低。

The vegetation was changing, so it wasn't quite as nutritious.

目前学界对此存在许多不同的理论假说。

It's just there's a lot of theories that are being pushed around out there.

所以美洲野牛、野牛、野牛，也就是平原上的水牛。

So bison, bison, bison, plains of buffalo.

但北美野牛还有另一个亚种，学名应该是Bison bison athabascae，这种野牛在二十世纪初几乎灭绝，直到在加拿大阿尔伯塔省偏远地区发现了约200头的种群。

But there's another subspecies of North American bison, and it's bison bison pithabaschi, I think, which were nearly extinct in the early nineteen hundreds until this small group of about 200 were discovered in this remote reach of Alberta, Canada.

博伊德和莱告诉我，它们体型更大，能达到2800磅，而平原野牛只有2000磅左右。

And Boyd and Lai told me that they're even bigger, like, 2,800 pounds as opposed to the smaller 2,000 pound plains bison.

所以这些森林野牛有点像我们的加拿大邻居。

So these wood bison are kind of like our Canadian neighbors.

它们体型壮硕，非常漂亮。

They're beautifully husky.

如果你表现得像个莽夫靠得太近，森林野牛可能会让你见红。

And if you act like a hosier and get too close, a wood's bison might gory you.

不过它们大概会说声抱歉。

But they'll probably say sorry.

此外还有观点认为森林野牛的分布范围曾向南延伸至落基山脉。

And then there was also some argument that the woods bison extended down and was was present in the Rocky Mountains.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这与平原野牛有所不同。

And that was different than the plains bison.

有人认为它们在形态上有些差异，头骨结构也略有不同。

Some people think have argued that they they looked a little bit differently, their skull structure was a little bit different.

它们可能拥有更长的腿和更高的驼峰，这种适应性进化是为了在冬季积雪较深时觅食。

They tended to maybe have longer legs, longer humps, and that was an adaptation to, deeper snows trying to forage in the wintertime.

回到野牛的历史，它们是从什么进化而来的？

Going back to bison history, where did they evolve from?

它们是从哪个物种进化来的？

What species did they evolve from?

它们何时抵达北美，数量有多少？

When did they get to North America, America, and how many were there?

给我一个简要的时间线概述。

Give me a brief give me a brief timeline.

一个简要的时间线。

A brief a brief timeline.

野牛起源于欧亚大陆，在间冰期迁徙至北美。

So bison originated in Eurasia, migrated to North America during periods of interglacial.

它们以不同形态存在于北美大陆的历史可追溯至约两千万年前。

They've been here in North America probably somewhere twenty million years ago in different forms.

两千万年。

Twenty million years.

两千万年。

Twenty million years.

而在短短二三十年间，它们就几乎从这片大陆上消失殆尽，濒临灭绝。

And in a period of twenty to thirty years, they were nearly extinguished from the continent and rendered extinct.

曾经存在过的最酷的野牛物种之一叫做宽角野牛。

One of the coolest bison species that was around is called bison latifrons.

它们生活在更新世时期，可能在一万两千到一万五千年前灭绝，但长着极其巨大的角，足有10英尺长。

And I was here during the Pleistocene, probably died out twelve, fifteen thousand years ago, but had huge huge huge horns, 10 feet long.

天啊。

Oh my god.

角向两侧展开。

Spread out horns.

是的。

Yeah.

简直就是个怪物。

Just a monster.

她是个基地，老兄。

She's a base, mate.

然后那件事就变得很糟糕。

And then that became a stink.

然后我们还有，你知道的，古野牛，它可能是宽额牛的同期物种。

And then we had, you know, Bison Antiquus, which was probably a contemporary of Latifrons.

再然后，你知道的，就是现代野牛了。

And then, you know, and then and then modern bison.

所以这段历史真的很混乱

So that's a really dirty history

的

of

野牛。

bison.

不过，野牛拉蒂弗龙也确实很酷。

But but, yeah, bison latifrons are really cool too.

我刚查了野牛拉蒂弗龙，天哪，这角也太夸张了。

So I just looked up bison latifrons, and boy, howdy bejesus, these horns.

哦，上帝啊。

Oh god.

看起来就像水牛用半个呼啦圈给自己做了个猛犸象万圣节装扮。

They look like if a buffalo made a mollicophant Halloween costume out of, like, half a hula hoop.

我的天哪。

Oh my god.

这些阿戈尔·杰斯。

These Agor Jess.

懂了吗？

Get it?

巨型动物群在两万到三万年前灭绝了，但它们就像卢克一样。

Megafauna became extinct between twenty and thirty thousand years ago, but they're Luke.

哦。

Oh.

那么，关于北美地区野牛的历史，你的研究能追溯到多久以前呢？

And how far back does your research go when it comes to the history of bison in, say, North America?

嗯，我研究中涉及的野牛历史很大程度上取决于保存状况。

Well, my the history of of of bison in my research is kind of kinda dependent on preservation.

我们研究过更古老的遗址，有上万年的历史，但很遗憾我还没在考古记录中发现那么古老的野牛遗存。

We've worked on older sites, to 10,000 year old sites, but I haven't been lucky enough to find bison that old in in the archaeological record.

我认为很大一部分原因在于保存条件的问题。

And a big part of that I think is is just preservation issues.

黄石公园和山区整体来说都不是理想的保存环境。

Yellowstone and the mountains in general are just not a great place for preservation.

那里的土壤大多偏酸性，而且经常被翻动。

There's lots of soils tend to be acidic, they get turned over a lot.

这里有个专业术语：生物扰动作用。

Here's a good term, bioturbation.

生物扰动。

Bioturbation.

所以是树木在翻动土壤，那些在地面生活和打洞的动物也在翻动土壤。

So it's trees that are turning up the soils, animals that that live and burrow on the ground are turning up the soils.

因此这些骨骼会受到化学和机械双重作用的分解。

So you have both chemical and and mechanical breaking down of these of these bones.

所以它们就是保存得不太好。

So we just they just don't preserve very well.

假设我们正在观察一头野牛。

Let's say that we're looking at a bison.

你能给我解释一下野牛的某些部位吗？

Can you explain to me any of the pieces parts of the bison?

我知道它们有角。

I know that there are horns.

还有某种驼峰。

There is a hump of some sort.

不错。

Nice.

一头野牛有多大？

How big is a bison?

假设我刚从外星球传送到地球，是个火星人。

If I say just beamed down to Earth from an outer planet, I'm a Martian.

然后我心想，这个毛茸茸的大家伙是什么？

And I'm like, what is this big furry creature?

我大概五英尺六英寸高

So I'm about five foot six

好的。

Okay.

状态好的时候。

On a good day.

我觉得一头健壮的公牛，我们可能会平视对方。

I think a good bull, we would be looking at each other straight straight on.

我是说，我大概只能看到它的额头。

I mean, I'd probably be looking at his his forehead.

好吧。

Okay.

体型相当大，能达到一千二百磅。

So pretty good size up to twelve hundred pounds.

一只体型不错的雄性。

A good sized male.

雌性呢？

What about females?

更小还是

Smaller or

更大？

big?

雌性会稍微小一点。

Females, a little bit smaller.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

大概八英尺高。驼峰是由胸椎延伸出的巨大棘突构成，上面覆盖着脂肪和皮肤。

Probably eight The eight hundred hump is, so they have these really big spinal processes that come off of the thoracic vertebrae and the hump is the fat and the skin that goes over that.

它们将大量脂肪和能量储存在那个驼峰里。

It stores a lot of a lot of its fat and energy in that in that hump.

这正是狩猎采集者最喜爱的部位，因为所有营养都来自这里。

That's the part that hunter gatherers really like because that's where all your nutrition comes from.

很酷的是，它们还长着胡子。

What's pretty cool, they've got they've got beards.

我注意到了。

I've noticed that.

那是一种时尚

That a fashion

这是东西还是那是

thing or is that a

我不知道。

I don't know.

它们当嬉皮士已经很久很久了。

They've been they've been hipsters for a long, long, long time.

它们不是嬉皮士。

They're not hipsters.

顺便说一句，野牛的胡须就像飞机上的围巾，能在雪中为这些小家伙保暖。

Side note, bison beards, kind of like a scarf on an airplane, serve to insulate these critters in the snow.

还有更惊人的，我刚发现它们毛发浓密的肩部区域其实是件斗篷。

And get this, I just found out that their hairier shoulder region, it's a cape.

所以更多证据表明这些生物不仅强壮有力，还低调地华丽着。

So more evidence that these creatures are not only strong and powerful, but also just quietly flamboyant.

让我们回到丹那里，他描述了一个与加拿大森林野牛发现类似的情况。

So let's get back to Dan who describes a situation similar to the wood bison discovery in Canada.

在19世纪末的黄石公园鹈鹕谷，发生了一件很酷的事情。

So in the late eighteen hundreds in Yellowstone's Pelican Valley, something cool happened.

鹈鹕谷在美国野牛历史中具有重要地位，因为那里是20世纪初（约1906至1912年间）最后一群野生野牛的栖息地。

Pelican Valley, historically significant in the, story of bison generally in United States because it was there that the last wild bison survived back in the very early twentieth century in, like, nineteen o six, nineteen twelve.

当时仅剩下约二十多头野牛。

There were only, like, a couple dozen bison left.

那些就是最后的野生野牛群，它们躲藏在鹈鹕谷中。

Those were the last wild bison, and they were hiding out in Pelican Valley.

它们选择在那里避难的原因，一方面是远离人类，另一方面是该地区存在地热活动。

And the reason why they were hiding out back there is, well, there weren't people, but also because it was geothermal geothermally active.

众所周知老忠实间歇泉等地质景观，其实冬季还有许多其他温暖地带能融化积雪。

As we all know about the geysers in Old Faithful and all that, well, there's a lot of other warm ground that melts the snow off in the wintertime.

野牛正是利用这些温暖的地热区域作为冬季庇护所。

And so these pockets of warm ground that the bison were using as refuge in the wintertime.

想了解更多关于黄石公园超级火山的内容，请收听第一集《火山学家杰斯·菲尼克斯讲火山学》。

For more on the supervolcano that is Yellowstone Park, please see episode one, Volcanology with Jess Phoenix.

不过，是的，总之，如今美国大部分野牛都是那些鹈鹕谷幸存者的后代。

But, yes, anyway, most of today's American bison are descended from those Pelican Valley survivors.

请给我讲讲野牛种群的情况，以及过去大约一百五十年间的变迁。

Tell me a little bit about the bison population and where it has been in the last, say, hundred and fifty years.

野牛种群发生了什么变化？

What's happened to the bison population?

嗯，这就像大海一样。

Well, it's like, the sea.

某种程度上说，它已经退潮并变得非常小了。

It's a sort of receded and got really small.

野牛的潮水已经退去。

The tide went out with bison.

嗯。

Mhmm.

正如我之前所说，它们在像黄石公园腹地的鹈鹕谷这样的地方找到了避难所，那里是美国本土48州中最偏远的地区之一，尤其是在二十世纪初那个时期。

And they they like I said earlier, they found refuge in places like Pelican Valley in in the interior of Yellowstone, one of the most remote areas in the Lower 48 United States, especially back then, the early part of the twentieth century.

值得注意的是，自那以后，黄石国家公园里的野牛数量比欧洲人到来以来的任何时候都要多。

And remarkably, since then, we have more bison now in Yellowstone National Park than at any time since Europeans showed up.

虽然达不到3000万头，但现在大约有5000头左右。

Granted, it's not 30,000,000 but it is 5,000 or so is about where we're at now.

这是一个巨大的转变。

That's a massive turnaround.

这是一次重大的文化转变。

That's a massive cultural shift.

因为你要明白，野牛在很多方面被武器化了。

Because you have to understand that, you know, bison were weaponized in a lot of ways.

它们被消灭，基本上是为了把印第安人赶进保留地。

They, you know, they were being eliminated to basically, you know, drive Indians onto reservations.

这是西半球殖民化的一部分。

It was part of, you know, the sort of colonization of the Western Hemisphere.

北美西部正在消灭野牛。

You know, Western North America was taking out the bison.

因此，让这些野牛回归，某种程度上是在挑战那些殖民态度，这些态度同样也适用于狼群。

And so to bring those bison back is to sort of challenge some of those ideas, those sort of colonial attitudes that also holds with the wolf as well.

所以没错，这些数字虽然不大，但依然意义重大。

And so yeah, these numbers aren't huge but they're significant nonetheless.

我认为这既是一个重要的文化进程，也是一种保护和生物生态的过程。

And I think that that's an important sort of cultural process as well as it is a process of sort of conservation and a bio biological process.

我问过地质生物学家兼考古学家肯，野牛是否经常迁徙，就像同样神秘的硬核戴夫·马修斯乐队粉丝那样。

I asked Ken, the geobiologist, archaeologist, if bison are on the move a lot, like equally enigmatic hardcore Dave Matthews fans.

那么它们每年的生命周期是怎样的？

And now what is their what's their yearly life cycle like?

它们是否会在一年中的特定时间迁徙？

Did they tend to migrate in certain times of the year?

它们会从北向南移动吗？

Do they go from the North to the South?

它们寻找什么？它们会在哪些地方活动？

Do they look for what where are they moving around?

我认为，雄性野牛确实会四处迁徙。

I think, well the males they migrate around a lot.

它们的活动范围似乎相当广阔。

They seem to have a pretty big range.

雌性野牛则大多时间都与母牛-幼崽群待在一起，许多年轻雄性也会在群体中生活几年，秋季则是发情期。

And the females they tend to stay in cow calf groups for most of the year and a lot of the younger males probably stay with the herds, those cow calf groups for a couple of years and the fall is when you have the rut.

因为我现在就处于低谷期。

Because I'm in a rut.

所有雄性从高海拔地区返回，通过互相争斗来争夺雌性交配权。

So all the males come back from the high country and you know, beat on each other for selection of females.

观看发情期的争斗相当刺激。

The rut is pretty pretty exciting to watch.

它们互相推挤、喷鼻息，试图证明自己是最强壮的那个，从而赢得所有母牛。

They're pushing around each other and snorting and trying to see who's gonna be the biggest, baddest one out there that gets all the all the cows.

是这样运作的吗？

Is that how that works?

野牛群里会有头领吗？

Is there is there an alpha bison?

通常会有几头领头的野牛，是的，它们能接近雌性，那些母牛。

There's usually several alpha bison that, yeah, that have access to the females, the cows.

这在有蹄类动物群体中常见吗？

Is that common in an ungulate group or

是的。

Yeah.

我想是的。

I think so.

麋鹿就很有意思。

Elk are pretty interesting.

它们会聚集形成所谓的后宫群。

They they gather up what's known as a harem.

哦，嘿。

Oh, hey.

所以十到十二头母麋鹿会...哇。

So ten, twelve cows get Elk cows get Wow.

归一头公鹿所有。

Get one guy.

哇。

Wow.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以就像姐妹共侍一夫。

So it's like sister wives.

有点吧。

A little.

有点。

A little.

我是说，毕竟我们这是在犹他州。

I mean, I guess we are in Utah.

不过，说句题外话。

But, you know, quick aside.

在你指责我以偏概全之前，我只是在如实分享数据。

Before you tell me that I'm making generalizations, I'm just honestly sharing data.

我查过了，犹他州估计有3万人处于多配偶婚姻中，这数字是美国野生野牛数量的六倍。

I looked it up, and there are an estimated 30,000 folks in polygamous marriages in Utah, which is six times the population of wild bison in America.

另外说明，我不知道也不关心他们是怎么统计多配偶人口的。

Now PS, I don't know or really care how they counted the polygamous people.

这不关我的事。

It's none of my business.

但野牛又是怎么统计的呢？

But what about the bison?

我问丹他们是不是给野牛植入了微芯片，还是说有个专门统计野牛的人口普查员，穿着雪鞋拿着记录板？

I asked Dan if they have microchips in them, or is there, like, a census taker for buffalo, someone with snowshoes and a clipboard?

就这样咚咚咚地敲野牛的门。

Just knock, knock, knocking on bison's doors.

有确切数字吗？

Is there an exact number?

有没有一个电子表格把它们都分类记录？

Is there a spreadsheet that has them all kind of cataloged?

它们有标签吗？

Are they tagged?

你们是怎么追踪的？

How do you keep track?

用飞机进行计数。

Counting, with aircraft.

真的吗？

Really?

这怎么操作？

How does that work?

他们——也就是国家公园管理局的生物学家——会乘坐小型固定翼飞机，一种超级幼兽型飞机。

They just get into a small they, being Park Service biologist, will get into a small fixed wing aircraft, a Super Cub.

他们会沿着公园里野牛已知活动的特定路线飞行，然后直接清点数量。

They will fly certain routes through the park where bison are known to range, and they just count them up.

所以这是一个总数统计。

So it's a it's a total count.

这是种群普查。

It's a census.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们每年至少会进行一次这样的统计。

And they do that at least once a year.

有时还会进行多次。

Sometimes they do it multiple times.

他们是直接拍摄然后后期查看录像吗？

And do they just film it and then later look at the footage?

不是。

No.

他们会边飞边数。

They'll count them as they go.

边飞边数？

As they go?

你知道，很容易就会数乱。

You know, you you lose track.

是啊。

Yeah.

感觉特别容易数乱。

That seems so easy to lose track.

但它们体型那么大。

But they're so big.

实际上我觉得相比麋鹿之类的，它们还算好数的。

They're actually easy to count, I think, compared to say, like, elk.

真的吗？

Really?

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

野牛颜色更深。

Bison are are darker.

麋鹿颜色更浅。

Elk are lighter.

好吧。

Okay.

而且野牛通常更常在开阔地带活动。

And they and the bison tend to be more out in the open.

有些麋鹿会躲在树林里。

Some of the elk will be in the trees.

所以数羊是没戏了。

So counting sheep is out.

看来数野牛才是正解。

Counting bison's where it's at, I guess.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

是啊。

Yeah.

如果必须选择的话，我会数野牛。

If I had to choose, I would count bison.

没错。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

你觉得研究野牛的生物学家会梦见野牛吗？

Do you think that bison biologists dream of bison?

你会梦见野牛吗？

Do you dream of bison?

有时候会。

Sometimes.

你做过什么样的野牛梦？

What kind of bison dreams do you have?

我一时想不起具体的梦，但肯定梦到过，尤其是我在野外工作的时候。

I can't remember of any off the top of my head, but I've I definitely have had dreams, especially when I'm in the field.

简单问一下。

Real quick.

梦见野牛代表什么？

What does it mean if you dream of buffalo?

根据sleepculture.com（这个网站可能雇用了善良的实习生来为字典里每个名词编造预兆）的说法，

Well, according to sleepculture.com, which likely employs kind hearted interns to make up omens for, like, every noun in the dictionary.

梦中见到野牛是生存与丰饶的象征。

Seeing a buffalo in a dream is a symbol of survival and abundance.

这意味着你应当留意自己当下的人生道路。

It means that you should pay attention to the path you're following in your life.

确实。

Sure.

另外，关于沃德家族的一个小插曲。

Also, Ward family side note.

所以博伊德、莱拉，还有我的表亲克里斯托、詹姆斯和杰米，每次聚会都会带来一顶巨大的传统圆锥帐篷。

So Boyd and Lila and my cousins Crystal and James and Jamie bring a huge traditional tipi to our reunions.

我第一次在里面过夜那年，他们告诉我要留意自己的梦境，因为在圆锥帐篷里做的梦可能有特殊意义。

And the first year I ever got to sleep in it, they told me to pay attention to my dreams because in a tipi, they could have certain significance.

结果第二天早上，我回忆起来，我梦见在好市多超市看到了《迈阿密风云》里的唐·约翰逊。

And in the morning, I recalled, I had a dream about seeing Don Johnson from Miami Vice at Costco.

这梦真是太扫兴了。

It was such a bummer.

所以可能这套理论对傻乎乎的白人女士不适用吧。

So maybe it just doesn't work on silly white ladies.

我觉得在黄石公园看到游客们自以为像奶牛一样可以靠近野牛拍照的场景。

I think being in Yellowstone and seeing how tourists think that they are like cows and can go up to them and take their picture.

而且我认为这是个很大的误解——人们总觉得黄石公园像个露天宠物园，但实际上这些都是大型野生动物，虽然它们对人类还算宽容。

And and I think that's a that's a big myth is that somehow Yellowstone is this is this petting zoo out there and and and you know, these are big wild animals and and they they are fairly tolerant, I think, of people.

它们的容忍度比我高多了——要是我被游客围着拍照，我肯定会骂人。

They're a lot more tolerant than I would be if I was damning somebody who was coming up and snapping pictures.

所以我觉得这是关于野生动物，特别是黄石公园野生动物一个有趣的误解。

So I think that's kind of an interesting misconception about wild animals, especially wild animals in Yellowstone.

关于野牛的误解，我认为人们需要明白的一个重要事实是：150年前它们曾遍布这片土地，特别是在大平原地区。

The myths about bison, I think maybe a big thing for people to understand is how pervasive they were on the landscape a hundred and fifty years ago, especially on the Great Plains.

我的意思是，如果你住在加州或纽约，可能很少见到野牛。

I mean, you know, if you live in California or New York, you probably didn't see a lot of bison.

但在大平原上，它们曾是生态系统中极其普遍的存在。

But out on the Great Plains, they're they're amazingly prevalent part of the ecosystem.

而它们在如此短时间内消失，我觉得这真的让人难以理解。

And to have them disappear in such a short period of time, I I I think that's really hard for people to understand.

我很难理解如何能从3000万头野牛（如果你想用这个数字的话）...

It's hard for me to understand how you can go from 30,000,000 bison if, you know, if you wanna use that number.

关于大平原上曾有多少野牛存在各种不同估算，但就在二三十年间，它们就彻底消失了。

People there's lots of different estimates on how many bison were out on the Great Plains and then within twenty, thirty year period, they're gone.

对。

Right.

你知道，我们当时是怎么做到的。

You know, and and how we can we can do that.

那时候的技术，我们并不是用武装直升机去扫射它们。

And the technology at that time, it wasn't like we're we're out there spraying them with guns gunships.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这些人，拿着单发步枪出去，就彻底导致了这种惊人数量动物的种群崩溃。

These these, you know, people with single shot rifles going out and they and they they completely caused a collapse of amazing population animals.

这是怎么在二三十年间发生的？

How did that happen over twenty or thirty years?

嗯，这确实很难理解，但我认为很大程度上是因为野牛皮贸易。

Well, that's I think that's hard to understand but I think a big part of it was just the trade in in bison robes.

在19世纪60、70年代，市场对野牛皮有巨大需求，人们出去猎杀它们，我认为这严重破坏了它们的种群结构。

And there was this great demand in the eighteen sixties and seventies for bison robes and you know, people were going out there, were they were killing them and I think they were they were disrupting herds.

他们只取走兽皮。

They were just taking the hides.

他们并不像用它们来当食物之类的。

They weren't wasn't like they were using them for food or anything.

我认为这对繁殖过程和种群数量造成了巨大破坏，导致数量急剧下降。

And and I think that had a great disruption of the the breeding process and the and the populations just just crashed.

我觉得这是一个相当无可争议的论点，解释了这一切是如何发生的。

I I think that's a pretty indisputable thesis about about how it all happened.

这确实——我觉得很难想象，但一旦你开始破坏这些兽群，因为它们很容易被猎杀，猎人能靠得很近射击，而野牛并不一定会迅速散开。

It was and it's I think it's difficult to to imagine but I think once once you start disrupting those herds because they they were easy to kill and people hunters got pretty close to them and could shoot them and the bison didn't necessarily scatter very quickly.

一旦你开始破坏这些兽群结构，把公牛和母牛打散，我认为这个系统很容易就会崩溃。

And and then once you start disrupting those those herd structures and scattering bulls and cows, I think it's I think it's easy for the system to crash.

它们不是那种会快速逃跑的大型动物。

They weren't a big animal to flee.

我是说，它们实际上并没有什么天敌。

I mean, they really didn't have, any predators.

人类可能是野牛最大的天敌，我想这就是，你知道的，他们确实如此。

Humans are probably bison's biggest predators, and I think that's they, you know, they've they've yeah.

人类是那里唯一的天敌，所以他们就是那里最大的威胁。

Humans were the only predator there, they so they they were the biggest thing out there.

它们无需惧怕任何事物。

They didn't need to fear anything.

而且它们群体足够庞大，能够抵御狼群——它们另一个主要天敌。

And they are big enough herds that they could they could fend off wolves, their other biggest predator.

它们不需要逃跑。

They didn't need to flee.

它们不像羚羊那样。

They're they're not like antelope.

羚羊嘛，你知道的，一看到动静，你离它还有100码远它就消失不见了。

Antelope, you know, as soon as they see something, you can't get within a 100 yards of an antelope and it's gone.

是啊。

Yeah.

野牛曾是那片土地上最庞大的存在，因此它们无需逃窜。

Bison, they were the biggest things out there, so they didn't have have to flee.

那么你现在是否也与土著群体、人类学家及其他考古学家合作，以深入了解现今北美地区的狩猎采集者与其主要食物来源——野牛之间的关系？

And now how do you do you work also with indigenous groups and anthropologists and other archaeologists to learn more about the relation between hunter gatherers in what's now North America and and a prominent food source, which is bison.

这部分内容在你的工作中占很大比重吗？

Does that figure in a lot to your work?

而且

And

是的。

Yeah.

我们的大部分工作要么在公共土地上进行，要么由公共资金资助。

Most most of the work that we do is either on public lands or or funded by by public dollars.

我们确实会与黄石地区的部落进行协商。

And we do, consult with tribes in Yellowstone.

通常我们会咨询肖肖尼-班诺克部落（位于霍尔堡保留地）以及温德河保留地的东肖肖尼部落。

Typically, we we consult with the Shoshone Bannock on the Fort Hall Reservation and also the Eastern Shoshone that are over on the Wind River Reservation.

我们会及时向他们通报工作进展，他们当然可以前来参观并提出意见。

And they're kept apprised of our work and are are certainly able to come and visit and and comment on it.

我们正努力不断扩大这种咨询合作的规模。

And we try and do do more and more of that that consultation process.

我在黄石工作时，曾与一位已故的长者哈曼·怀斯密切合作，他向我们提供了许多关于肖肖尼族及其生活方式的宝贵信息，这段合作关系非常有趣且珍贵。

When I was working up in Yellowstone, I I worked a lot with an elder known who's who's since passed away, Haman Wise, and he gave us a lot of information about about the Shoshone and their life ways and so that was that was a pretty interesting and a nice relationship.

肯告诉我，他一直在运用考古技术帮助研究1863年熊河大屠杀的事件和地形——这场屠杀可能导致数百名肖肖尼族成员遇害，事发地位于现今爱达荷州南部普雷斯顿镇附近。

Ken told me that he's been helping out using his archaeological techniques to understand the events and the landscape of the eighteen sixty three Bear River Massacre that killed possibly hundreds of members of the Shoshone tribe in a place that's now South Idaho near a town called Preston.

如今那里建有一座小型纪念碑，但部落正在筹款建设一个解说中心，以纪念该遗址上发生的悲剧。

And there's a small memorial there now, but the tribe is trying to raise funds for an interpretive center to memorialize what had happened on that site.

这种工作会让你情绪波动吗？

Does that ever get emotional for you?

在熊河大屠杀遗址工作确实令人情绪激动，因为那是一场无法用任何理由开脱的恐怖事件。

Working with it at the Bear River massacre site is is incredibly emotional, just because it's a it was a horrible event, and no way shape or form could ever be justified.

当你见到那些与幸存者相隔两代的人们亲口讲述他们的家族故事时...

And seeing people that are two generations removed from the survivors of that and them tell telling our their story.

是啊。

Yeah.

很难不情绪激动，如果你没有感觉，那就不算是个有血有肉的人了。

It's it's hard not to be emotional if, you know, you wouldn't be a human if you're not.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，是的，那确实会让人非常情绪化。

So so yeah, that that does get to be pretty emotional.

我和妻子莫莉还参与了沙溪大屠杀遗址的工作，我们与许多沙溪大屠杀的后裔坐在一起交流，看到这段历史对他们而言依然如此切近。

My wife Molly and I also worked on the Sand Creek massacre site, and we're sitting with a lot of descendants of the Sand Creek massacre and and talking with them and seeing how close that is to them still.

我是说，你知道，他们会非常激动，而且...这不是我的历史。

I mean, you know, they they get very emotional and and and it's, you know, it's it's not my history.

原住民社区是如何传承这段历史的？

And how do indigenous communities keep that history alive?

跨部落野牛理事会（ITBC）是由来自19个不同州的69个部落组成的联盟，他们致力于将野牛重新引入部落土地的项目。

The Intertribal Buffalo Council, ITBC, is this collection of 69 tribes from 19 different states, and they work on programs to return buffalo to tribal lands.

但在他们自己的社区里，博伊德和莱拉亲自捐赠了他们珍视的一头野牛。

But hyper locally in their own community, Boyd and Lila themselves donated one of their own prized buffalo.

我知道在回馈社区方面，你们大约一年前曾向布朗宁的一所学校捐赠了一头野牛，让学生们学习野牛如何用于传统食物等方面。

I know that, in terms of giving back to the community, like, you guys donated a buffalo a year or so ago to one of the Browning schools to kind of learn how the buffalo is used in traditional food and other things.

那是什么样的经历？

What was that like?

是什么促使你们这么做的？

What prompted that?

哦，那是高中的印第安研究课程。

Oh, it was Indian studies class at the high school.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们想获得实践体验，向大家展示最初是如何宰杀野牛的，以及利用了哪些部位。

They wanted to get a hands on experience and show everybody what how they originally butchered buffalo, what all the parts they took.

另外，你可能不好意思问，应该用'印第安人'还是'美洲原住民'？

Also, you may be too embarrassed to ask, is it Indian or Native American?

关于'印第安人'与'原住民'、'土著'、'第一民族'等称谓存在多种观点。

And there are several opinions on words like Indian versus indigenous versus native versus First Nations.

不同时代和地区的人们各有偏好。

And different people have different preferences depending on the era and the region.

这个话题值得单独做一期节目，我们已经在筹备了。

This deserves its own whole episode, and that is in the works.

如果你是原住民，感谢你为教育他人所付出的情感劳动。

So if you are native, thank you for any emotional labor that you have spent educating others.

我强烈推荐《All My Relations》这样的播客节目，非常棒，同时建议关注全球各地原住民的社交媒体账号。

And I highly recommend podcasts like All My Relations, so good, and following indigenous folks from all over the world on social media.

我们都需要更多倾听和学习，这很正常。

We all have so much listening and so much learning to do, and that's okay.

学习是件令人兴奋的事。

Learning is exciting.

现在回到丹的故事。

Now back to Dan.

我询问了野牛与引进牛种的遗传背景。

I asked about the heritage of the bison and the introduced cattle.

那里发生了什么情况？

What's happening there?

什么是纯种野牛，什么是混有家养牛DNA的野牛，人们在意这个区别吗？

What is a wild bison versus what is a bison that has now domesticated bovine DNA and do people care?

关于这个问题，我们目前处于什么阶段？

What where are we at with that?

几年前我参加了蒙大拿州波兹曼市的一个会议。

I was at a meeting in Bozeman, Montana a few years ago.

当时国家科学院正在对布鲁氏菌病进行评审，他们邀请了部落间野牛合作组织的主席做演讲。

National Academy of Sciences was doing a review on brucellosis and they had the chair of the Intertribal Bison Cooperative give a talk.

他说的一个观点让我印象深刻，在他看来，这头野牛是80%野牛血统混20%赫里福德牛血统，还是只混5%其他血统，其实没太大区别——这就是头野牛。

And one of the things he said that struck me was that, you know, from his point of view, it doesn't really make much of a difference if this bison has got, you know, if it's 80% bison and 20%, you know, Hereford or 5%, you know, like, it's a bison.

从他的角度来看，这就是一头野牛。

You know, from his point of view, this is a bison.

我认为他也是从文化角度出发的，因为人类群体间存在大量混血现象，而美洲原住民不得不通过血统纯度来证明自己属于某个特定部落和保留地等等。

I think he was speaking too from sort of a cultural point of view because there's a lot of, you know, mixing among human populations and, you know, Native Americans have to deal with this in terms of blood quantum to prove, you know, that they belong to a certain tribe and a certain reservation and so forth.

围绕这个问题存在很多争议。

And there's a lot of controversy around that.

他某种程度上是在用这个类比来讨论：到底需要多少比例的野牛血统才能算作一头野牛？

And he was sort of referring to that in the context of what percent of bison do you need in order to be a bison?

我想他是在说：你知道吗，这种标准其实很荒谬。

And I think he was saying, you know what, that's kind of nonsense.

没错。

Right.

完全是一派胡言。

It's all a bunch of hogwash.

在某种程度上，什么是野牛取决于观察者的眼光。

What is a bison is in some ways in the eye of the beholder, I think.

我想这就是我对这个问题的回答。

And I think that's how I would answer that question.

好的。

Okay.

那么养殖野牛怎么样？

So what about raising bison?

我查过了，结果发现野牛宝宝可爱到让人发狂。

I've looked it up and it turns out that bison babies are cute to the point that it is enraging.

它们就像毛茸茸的布偶。

They are like shaggy Muppets.

这太气人了。

It's infuriating.

我的心都疼了。

My heart hurts.

我好想抱抱它们。

I wanna hug them.

你知道现在野牛作为畜牧商品的发展情况吗？

Any idea where we're at in terms of bison as a livestock commodity?

比如，这个行业现在发展得怎么样了？

Like, where is that industry going today?

那是泰德·特纳。

That's Ted Turner.

那就是他做的事。

That's what he does.

是啊。

Yeah.

你可以去泰德烤肉店点一份野牛排。

Go to you can go to Ted's Grill and order yourself up a bison steak.

我是说，他...这也不是什么秘密。

I mean, he's he's and this is this is not a secret.

这是他多年来一直在做的事情之一。

He that's part of what he's been doing for a number of years.

他在自己的多处地产上养殖野牛，并将这些野牛供应给自己的餐厅销售。

He's been growing bison on a number of his properties and using that bison and selling it in his restaurants.

我想那家餐厅就叫泰德烧烤。

Ted's Grill, I think, is what it's called.

你吃野牛肉吗？

Do you eat bison?

当然。

Sure.

是啊。

Yeah.

你不会觉得，哦，抱歉。

You're not like, oh, sorry.

不会。

No.

不会。

No.

野牛肉超级美味。

Bison are are are super tasty.

哦，野牛。

Oh, bison.

但养殖它们比养牛对地球更好吗？

But are raising them better for the planet than cows?

一些生态学家认为是的，因为它们的粪便和蹄子是与平原共同进化的。

Some ecologists argue yes because their poops and their hooves have evolved along with the plains.

而且不像娇生惯养的牛，野牛通常不需要冬季庇护所，这节省了能源成本。

And unlike Nambi pambi cows, bison typically don't need winter shelter, which saves on energy costs.

野牛肉也往往更瘦。

And bison meat also tends to be leaner meats.

博伊德和莱拉为几家本地餐厅供货，并向私人买家出售牛排。

Boyd and Lila supply a few local restaurants and sell steaks to private buyers.

但表示并非所有野牛汉堡都品质相同。

But said not all bison burgers are created equal.

你在连锁餐厅可能找到的一些商业化产品可能来自老年动物，脂肪含量可能更高。

And some commercial ones you might find in chain restaurants might be made from older animals and might be higher in fat.

我问了问他们养殖的总体情况如何。

I asked how they were in general to raise, though.

和养牛有什么不同？

How is it different from raising cows?

是的。

Yeah.

它们聪明得多。

They're a lot smarter.

真的吗？

Really?

没错。

Yeah.

它们很独立。

They're independent.

它们是野生动物。

They're wildlife.

它们之间的交流是不是比牛群更多一些？

Do they kind of communicate with each other more than cows do?

它们更合群还是更独来独往？

Are they more social or less social?

它们吃什么食物？

What are they eating?

社交性要强得多。

Way more social.

没错。

Yeah.

它们会结成一个小群体四处活动。

They run around in one they run around in one little pack.

野牛会发出什么样的叫声？

What kind of noises do buffalo make?

咕噜声。

Grunts.

它们会发出咕噜声吗？

They grunt?

是的。

Yeah.

它们有点像绵羊。

They Kinda like sheep.

有点像猪。

Kinda like pigs.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

有点像猪。

Kinda like pigs.

听起来差不多就是那样。

That's kinda what they sound like.

附言

PS.

感谢YouTuber Jim Doss上传的这段9秒视频，画面中一头雄性野牛像参加兄弟会打嗝比赛一样伸出舌头，还发出响亮的咕噜声。

Thank you, you tuber Jim Doss, who posted this nine second video of a male bison sticking his tongue out like it was a fraternity burping contest and just letting the grunts rip.

它们到底什么时候会发出这种咕噜声呢？

Why when when do they have occasion to grunt?

它们会

Do they do

是高兴时还是生气时？或者其他什么情况？

when they're happy or when they're pissed off or what?

当它们互相交流时，尤其是当它们成群结队的时候。

When they communicate with each other and mostly when they're in a little bunch there.

嗯哼

Mhmm.

是的，它们就是这样交流的。

Yeah, they talk to each other that way.

它们有什么特别喜欢的食物吗？

Do they have any favorite treats?

它们是不是像——对，现在是苹果季了，还是说它们就只吃绿色植物之类的？

Are they like, yes, it's apple season or is it just like they eat green They and that's

特别喜欢山楂果。

love crab apples.

山楂果。

Crab apples.

简直爱死这个了。

Absolutely love that.

它们会不会用咕噜声交流说'嘿伙计，快过来吃这个'？

Do they grunt to each other like, yo, come and get these, man.

我...我不清楚。

I I don't know.

想象野牛为山楂果发狂的样子真是太有意思了。

Buffalo going batshit on crabapples is such a joy to imagine.

我想和它们做朋友。

I would like to be their friends.

我问丹野牛是否群居，主要是想知道它们会不会和我做朋友。

And I asked Dan if bison are social mostly because I would like to know if they will be my friends.

它们非常合群，野牛确实如此。

So they're extremely social, bison are.

它们会聚集在一起，互相帮助。

They, know, they they they aggregate together, and they'll help each other.

不像麋鹿那样四处逃散，各顾各的。

They're not like elk, which sort of flee in every direction and sort of every man for himself.

总的来说，野牛在自卫时非常团结协作。

Generally, bison are, you know, are very cooperative in how they defend themselves.

但当积雪很深时，这种防御机制就会瓦解，变成各自逃命，不分公母。

But when there's deep snow, that defense breaks down and it becomes every man for himself or a woman.

顺便说一句，当然还有非二元性别的野牛。

Side note, of course, or non binary bison.

我相信它们就在那里。

I'm sure they're out there.

我最近在读《美国印第安思想》，这是安·沃特斯编选的原住民作家文集。

I was recently reading American Indian Thought, which is an Ann Waters anthology of native writers.

我偶然读到爱丽丝·基欧的一段话，恰好与黑脚族联盟有关。

And I came across this passage by Alice Kehoe, which happens to relate to the Blackfoot Confederacy.

爱丽丝写道：对黑脚族人来说，真正重要的是自主权。

Alice writes, what really matters to a Blackfoot is autonomy.

如果一个人能胜任通常属于另一性别或物种的工作或行为，旁观者会认为此人受到了祝福。

If a person competently engages in work or behavior ordinarily the domain of people of the other sex or another species, onlookers assume the person has been blessed.

总之，回到野牛的话题。

Anyway, back to bison.

我认为我们需要更多。

We need more, I think.

对吧？

Right?

我们请教一下专家吧。

Let's ask an expert.

未来我们在野牛保护与数量增长方面将何去何从？

And where are we going in the future in terms of bison conservation and growing the numbers?

你预见到前方会出现怎样的局面？

What do you what do you see kind of coming up around the bend?

就我在大黄石地区的经验而言，可以说我们正面临极限。

Well, in my experience in the Greater Yellowstone, I would say we're running up against limits.

仅仅在我工作的这二十、二十五年间，曾经的牧场如今已建起了房屋。

Just in the, you know, twenty, twenty five years that I've been working up there, areas that used to be range land have houses on them on them now.

这不仅仅是公园边界上的牲畜放牧问题。

So it isn't just an issue of livestock grazing on the borders of the park.

你知道的，就是铺路、房屋、围栏、人们、秋千之类的东西。

You know, it's pavement, it's houses, it's fences, it's it's people, swing sets, that kind of stuff.

这是一种侵占。

It's encroaching.

而且这种情况似乎看不到尽头。

And and there doesn't really seem to be any end of that.

因此，特别是在大黄石生态系统中，野牛和其他野生动物正日益受到限制。

And so bison and and I think wildlife in particular are increasingly hemmed in in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.

另一方面，像蒙大拿州东部的美国草原基金会这样的倡议正在整合私人土地，从自愿卖家手中收购土地。

On the other hand, you've got initiatives like out in Eastern Montana at the American Prairie Foundation where they're cobbling together private lands, you know, buying up lands from willing sellers.

这些土地毗邻公共土地，他们正试图重建欧洲征服时期那种短草草原的生态。

These lands are adjacent to public lands and they're trying to recreate the kind of short grass prairie that we had at the time of, you know, European conquest basically out there.

把玉米田和苜蓿田重新转变为草原——顺便说一句，这绝非易事。

So taking cornfields and alfalfa fields and converting those back into prairie, which is not an easy thing to do by the way.

我还认为，野牛未来的重要部分在于美洲原住民保留地。

I also think, a big part of the future of bison is on Native American reservations.

现在越来越多部落在自己管理的土地上发展野牛种群。

So increasingly you see tribes building up their herds on their lands under their management.

我认为这也是野牛未来故事的重要组成部分。

And I think that's a big part of the bison story going forward as well.

博伊德和莱拉也赞同这一点。

Boyd and Lila echo that.

是

Is

作为拥有土地和牲畜的人，你们对平原野牛的数量有什么期望吗？

there anything like population wise of the plains buffalo that that y'all would like to see happen as people who have land and have livestock?

你们希望看到野牛数量回升到接近历史水平吗？

Would you like to see the population rise again to closer to what it used to be like?

你们对平原上应该有多少野牛有什么看法？

How do you guys feel about, like, how many buffalo should there be on the plains?

不是一亿头。

Not 100,000,000.

对。

Yeah.

它们会泛滥内布拉斯加、堪萨斯和密苏里州，到时候就看不到玉米地了。

They would overrun Nebraska and Kansas, Missouri, and there wouldn't be any cornfields.

也不会有任何麦田了。

There wouldn't be any wheat fields.

你知道，它们有生存的空间，但要成比例地。

You know, there's they have a place, but it's proportionately.

好的。

Okay.

我知道未来学是上周的话题，但我问过丹关于我们野牛朋友可能面临的情况。

I know futurology was last week, but I asked Dan about what might be in store for our buffalo friends.

目标是什么？

What is the aim?

在野牛数量方面的目标是什么？

What's the goal in terms of numbers of bison?

考虑到我们在农业等方面对土地可能造成的改变，这片大陆能承载多少？

What can the continent support given what we've maybe done to the land in terms of agriculture and and Well,

这完全掌握在我们手中。

it's completely in our hands.

我们的双手某种程度上代表着美国社会。

We our hands being sort of, you know, American society.

如果我们想要更多野牛，我们就能拥有更多野牛。

If we want more bison, we can have more bison.

实现这个目标有多种方法，其他野生动物也是如此。

There are ways of doing that, likewise with other wildlife.

问题在于我们是否愿意做出必要的选择和权衡来实现这一目标。

The question is whether or not we're may willing to make the choices and the trade offs in order to do that.

例如在黄石公园北部，由于野牛会干扰农业生产，公园外允许存在的野牛数量极少。

So for example, in Northern Yellowstone, very few bison are permitted outside the park because they interfere with agriculture.

不仅存在诸如破坏干草田、撞倒围栏等冲突，它们还会传播疾病。

Not only just conflicts in terms of, you know, raiding hay fields and busting down fences, but you know, they also carry diseases.

麋鹿和野牛都会携带布鲁氏菌病。

Both elk and bison carry brucellosis.

好的。

Okay.

顺便说一下，布鲁氏菌病是由细菌引起的。

Side note, brucellosis is caused by bacteria.

在人类中，最常见的是通过食用未经巴氏消毒的牛奶或软质奶酪（如山羊奶酪）而感染。

And in humans, it's most commonly picked up by eating unpasteurized milk or soft, squishy cheeses, like a goat cheese.

但布鲁斯是谁？

But who is Bruce?

为什么有人会用他的名字命名一种疾病？

And why did someone name a disease after him?

原来它是以大卫·布鲁斯命名的，这位澳大利亚出生的微生物学家在当时研究这种疾病，我想那时人们正在北美到处猎杀野牛。

Well, it turns out it's named after David Bruce, an Australian born microbiologist who worked on investigating the disease right around the time, I guess, folks were running around North America killing all the bison.

另外，大卫·布鲁斯本人并未感染布鲁氏菌病，但他确实在妻子纪念仪式四天后离世，撒手人寰。

Also, David Bruce did not have brucellosis, but he did perish and fall from life's supple grasp just four days after his wife at her memorial service.

他在妻子的纪念仪式上去世，这要么非常感人，要么极其恼人。

He died at her memorial service, which is either really sweet or incredibly obnoxious.

但我真心希望殡仪馆能给那个可怜的家庭来个即兴的'买一送一'优惠。

But I hope to heaven that the funeral director just gave that poor family an impromptu BOGO, buy one get one discount.

好的。

Okay.

回到布鲁氏菌病的话题。

Back to brucellosis.

如果家养奶牛感染这种疾病，它们将面临自然流产的风险。

And if a domestic cow contracts this disease, they're at risk of spontaneous abortion.

牲畜感染布鲁氏菌病会带来巨大的经济损失，因为这意味着你无法将牲畜运出州外，也就无法跨州销售，因为其他州不想被布鲁氏菌病感染。

There's a massive economic cost to having livestock infected with bison because it means that you can't move your livestock out of state, meaning that you can't sell them across the state lines because other states don't wanna get infected with brucellosis.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，让携带这种疾病的物种广泛分布是一个重大的经济问题。

And so it's a major economic issue to having these species that carry that disease to to range far and wide.

所以，你知道，所有这些关于生命管理的决策，其实都是社会决策。

And so, you know, all all you know, all these decisions about life management, these are all social decisions.

要知道，这些并不完全是生物性的过程。

You know, these aren't necessarily biological, processes exclusively.

很大程度上是社会和文化进程，而且，你知道，很多这类决策都是在公共会议上做出的，涉及不同机构——州级、地方和联邦的各类场合。

Are very much social and cultural processes and and, you know, a lot lot of these decisions get made in, you know, public meetings, in various different situations with different agencies, state, local, federal.

所以当你说，我们到底能拥有多少头野牛时？

And so when you say, well, how many bison could nor could we have?

这实际上取决于社会经济层面的承载能力，你知道。

Well, it really sort of depends on sort of the social economic, you know, carrying capacity, you know.

人们愿意容忍到什么程度？

How much are people willing to tolerate?

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果卡什谷地所有养牛或种玉米的农民都决定改养野牛，那我们就能在那里看到野牛了。

And we get a bison in Cache Valley if, you know, all the farmers that are grazing cows or growing corn decided they wanted to raise bison.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我是说，这是有可能的。

I mean, that's possible.

在平原州和落基山脉其他地区，确实有私人土地所有者正在这么做。

You have private landowners in the Plain States, elsewhere in the Rockies that are that are doing just that.

他们为了盈利而饲养野牛。

They are raising bison for profit.

你知道，他们试图从中赚钱。

They're trying to make money off of it, you know.

所以这种做法是有先例的。

So so there is a model for doing that.

但这些算是牲畜吗？

But are those, you know, those livestock?

它们还算野生野牛吗？

Are they wild bison?

这些都是社会层面的决策。

And and those are social decisions.

因此我们需要事先明确，这些正是我们必须进行对话的内容。

And and so that those need to be those are the kinds of conversations we need to have knowing that upfront.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这些某种程度上是我们正在进行的文化讨论、社会经济讨论，而不太涉及生物学。

That these are sort of, you know, cultural discussions that we're having, socioeconomic discussions, not so much biology.

对。

Right.

所以我们真正需要对话的是社会学家和经济学家。

So what we really need to be talking to is a sociologist and an economist.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

而且

And

可能还需要一位心理学家。

a psychologist too, probably.

社会学家们，我还没做过关于你们的专题节目，但我会安排的。

Sociologists, I have not done an episode on you yet, but I will.

经济学家们，我很抱歉，但你们并不是'经济学家'（故意用错词）。

And economists, I am so sorry, but you are not economologists.

嘿。

Hey.

所有支持推出衍生节目的人，比如'知识网络'，可以在推特上@我。

All those in favor of some spin off shows, maybe Knowledge's Network, you could tweet at me.

好的。

Okay.

但首先，让我们来揭穿更多迷思。

But first, let's bust some more myths.

关于那些你想揭穿的谣言或骗局，你看到人们有哪些误解？骗局实在太多了。

What about any myths or any flimflam that you would debunk that you see people having a There's so much flimflam.

我知道。

I know.