杰斯必听系列：你的约会方式全错了！（用这份蓝图吸引对的人）嘉宾：凡妮莎·范·爱德华兹与吉莉安·图雷基

一个月或更久。

For a month or more.

然后你就开始兴奋起来了。

And then you're getting all excited.

我理解那种刺激感，确实很令人激动，但说实话，这纯粹是浪费时间，你还是去见见这个人吧。

I understand like the thrill of it and it's all, it's exciting, but it's such a waste of time, honestly, you know, meet the person.

你说话的时候，我在想，为什么这么多人会有这种心态。

As you were speaking, I was thinking about what's at the root of that for so many people.

我想到的一个原因是，对被拒绝的恐惧。

And one of the things that came to me was this fear of rejection.

是的。

Yes.

所以，即使只是和这个人聊一个月，也是因为我无需面对可能去见某人，而对方却再也不想见我的情况。

So even the idea of I'm talking to this person for a month is because I don't have to potentially face meeting someone and them never wanting to meet me again.

或者，我们对让恋爱和工作一样努力所存在的抗拒。

Or the resistance that we have to make work and dating feel the same.

我知道很多人会临时取消约会，因为他们害怕——万一去了但没成功怎么办？

I know so many people who will cancel on dates last minute because they're scared of, well, what if I go and it doesn't work out?

顺便说一下，拒绝其实有两种类型。

Or, and rejection by the way is two types of rejection.

一种是那个人不喜欢我。

One type of rejection is that person doesn't want me.

另一种是那个人不符合我的期望，或者我不想和他在一起。

And the other type of rejection is that person doesn't meet my expectations or that person, I don't want to be with them.

是的。

Yes.

所以我所说的拒绝，不只是我们害怕‘如果那个人不喜欢我’这种情况。

So I'm not just saying rejection in that we're scared of, well, what if that person doesn't like me?

我们还害怕自己是否会拒绝别人。

We're also scared of the, am I going to reject another person?

就像你所说的，带着很高的期望。

And like you said, with the high expectations.

我们该如何应对这两种对拒绝的恐惧？

What do we do about both of those types of fear of rejection?

因为让我们先从更明显的一种说起。

Because let's take the more obvious one to start with.

我们都希望被爱，被喜欢，都希望下一个人就是对的人。

We all want to be loved, we want to be liked, we all want the next person to be the person.

是的。

Yeah.

很可能这种情况不会发生。

Chances are that's not going to happen.

我们其实都知道。

We'd know that.

是的。

Yeah.

但即便如此，我们仍然会纠结于：我会遇到一个人，而他们却会说，你不是适合我的人，或者我不太想再见到你。

But still we struggle with the fact that I'm going to meet someone and they're going to say, well, you're not right for me or, you know, I don't really want to see you again.

那你怎么才能克服这种感觉呢？

Like, how do you get over that?

因为在创业和生活中我们都会谈论它，但当你在爱情中经历时，它似乎变得如此个人化。

Because we talk about it in entrepreneurship, we talk about it in life, but when you do it with love, it seems so personal.

被你爱的人拒绝是一回事。

It's one thing to be rejected by the person you love.

被一个你不认识的陌生人拒绝是另一回事。

It's another thing to be rejected by a stranger who you don't know.

这不过是人性使然。

This is just human nature.

我们会去约会。

We go on dates.

即使我们对对方没兴趣，也希望对方对我们感兴趣。

Even if we're not into the person, we want them to be into us.

比如，我们觉得对方有吸引力。

Like we find them, let's say we find them attractive.

然后我们发现，等等，你对我没感觉？

And then we find out, wait, you're not into me?

你觉得我不吸引人？

You don't find me attractive?

对。

Yeah.

但生活的质量很大程度上取决于我们应对拒绝的能力。

But life really the quality of our lives is very much determined by how well we can confront rejection.

你不可能适合每一个人。

Like you're not going to be for everyone.

我发自内心、全心全意地相信这一点。

And I really believe this with all of my heart and soul.

如果因为某种原因，有人对你没兴趣——比如你还在约会初期，他们对你没有吸引力，感觉不到火花，不管是什么原因，他们绝对不适合你。

If someone is not into you for whatever reason, like let's say you're in the early dating process, they're not attracted to you, they're not feeling a spark, whatever it is, they absolutely are not for you.

我可以保证这一点。

I can guarantee that.

所以，培养对拒绝的韧性非常重要。

So it's important to build that resilience against rejection muscle.

首先，这会让一个人更有吸引力。

First of all, it makes a person more attractive.

其次，这是生活的一部分。

Second of all, it's just part of life.

我知道你是在勇敢地展现自己，但我真希望有一种神奇的药丸，能让人立刻摆脱这种困扰。

And I know that it's like you're putting yourself out there, but I wish there was like a magic pill that I could give people to just get over it.

但你必须在面对这种情况时变得更坚韧。

But you have to become more resilient when it comes to that.

你不能躲在文字背后，而不去真正见对方一面。

You can't be hiding behind texts and not actually meet the person.

这听起来很难，但你必须比这更坚强。

It sounds hard, but you have to be stronger than that.

说实话，你真的、真的必须做到。

Honestly, you really, really do.

你必须相信，你不是每个人都适合，也不是每个人都适合你。

And you have to just trust that like, you're not for everyone and not everyone's for you.

是的，这很尴尬。

And yes, it's awkward.

也许我们都可以承认这一切的尴尬，但如果你想要爱和一段关系，你还是得去追求。

And maybe we can just all acknowledge the awkwardness of it all, you know, but you still have to, if you want love and you want a relationship, you have to go for it.

你不能只是被动等待。

You can't just be passive.

你在寻找一个人，彼此相爱。

You're looking for one person to fall in love with you and for you to fall in love with.

是的。

Yes.

为了找到那个人，你得认识很多人。

And for that, you're going to have to meet a lot of people to find that one person.

但你只需要一个人说‘yes’，一个人说‘我愿意’，一个人说‘我爱你’。

But all you need is one person to say yes, one person to say I do, one person to say I love you.

嗯。

Yeah.

如果你只在寻找一个人，那么根据概率本身，你应该知道那个人很可能不会是下一个遇到的人。

And if you're only looking for one person, just by the nature of odds, you should know that that probably won't be the next person.

说到这个，你提到过以最低的期望值去开始一段关系，我同意这一点，因为这样你才能让关系自然发展成友谊。

Switching to that, you said one thing about kind of going in at the lowest baseline expectation, which I agree with, because then you're allowing it to become a friendship.

你允许它发展成一段无果的关系。

You're allowing it to become a nothing ship.

你允许它成为它本来的样子。

You're allowing it to become what it is.

是的。

Yes.

而不是一上来就认为下一个遇到的人会是你的妻子、丈夫，或者伴侣。

As opposed to us walking in and going, this next person is going to be my wife, my husband, whatever it may be, my partner.

我认为，对我们许多人来说，想要加速爱情是很自然的。

I think it's so natural for so many of us to want to speed up love.

就像加速爱情似乎成了我们的瘾和执念——我只想遇到那个对的人，现在我们在约会，我就想马上结婚。

Like speeding up love seems to be our addiction and obsession with I just want to meet the one, now that we're dating, I just want to get married.

现在，我们试图加速爱情，那么我们该如何放慢脚步，回归到基本状态呢？

Now, you know, it's, we're trying to accelerate love So how do we slow it down and how do we take it back to baseline?

第一，根本不存在那个对的人。

Number one is there is no the one.

真的不存在。

There really isn't.

我的意思是，我们其实是在选择谁是那个对的人，这一点非常重要。

I mean, we actually choose who the one is, and this is this is really, really important.

爱，我相信你明白，是一种选择。

Love, as I'm sure you know, is a choice.

它当然是一种感觉，但我们被深深灌输了这样的观念：爱仅仅是一种感觉，而不是一种选择。

Like, it's a feeling for sure, but we're so conditioned to believe that love is just a feeling as opposed to a choice.

当你决定与某人长期相处时，你必须在你们的关系中无数次地做出这个选择——我选择你。

And that when if you do decide to be with someone long term, you're going to have to make that choice many, many times throughout your relationship, which is I choose you.

对吧？

Right?

所以人们想加速它。

So people wanna rush it.

因此，他们和我所做的就是欺骗自己。

And so what they do and what I've done is that we lie to ourselves.

而且这也是因为社会和浪漫主义一直欺骗我们，让我们相信有一个人会进入你的生活，拯救你，让你的生活变得更好。

And it's also because we've been lied by society that there is and romanticism that there is this one person who's gonna come into your life and rescue you and make your life better.

而且一旦你找到了那个人，一切都会变得更容易。

And that once you find that person, like everything becomes easier.

我当然不是在提倡人们留在困难的关系中。

And I'm certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships.

但你在关系中经历的挑战越多，你越没有被示范过什么是真正的爱，你就越难克服和超越旧有的模式，去真正地爱一个人，去实践爱——爱是一种行动，而不仅仅是一种感觉。

But the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone, the more you are going to be challenged to overcome and transcend old things and old patterning to actually love someone and to do love, where it's a verb and not just a feeling.

那么，我们该如何放慢脚步呢？我们却只想加速它？

So how do we slow it down and we just wanna rush it?

关键是承认这种感觉。

It's about acknowledging that feeling.

所以很多人相遇时，会有化学反应。

So a lot of people they meet, there's chemistry.

我知道这曾经就是我。

And I know that this was me.

我认为如果有化学反应，那这就是对的人。

I think if there's chemistry, then this is it.

相比之下，也许过去我虽然有化学反应，但并没有遇到对的人。

As opposed to, well, maybe in the past, there's been chemistry and I haven't had chemistry with the right people.

所以也许我需要放慢一点，好好消化我的热情。

So maybe I need to slow down a little bit and sort of process my enthusiasm.

这并不是说我不希望任何人……我不想扫大家的兴。

And it's not about I don't want anyone to I don't wanna rain on anyone's parade.

所有这些事情在一开始都真的很有趣。

Like all that stuff is really fun in the beginning.

但你只想说，等等，慢一点。

But you wanna just say, okay, hold on.

我现在感受到什么？

What am I feeling right now?

这感觉真好。

This feels really good.

这真的令人兴奋。

This is really exciting.

但我需要放慢脚步，因为我实际上需要了解这个人的品格。

But I need to slow down because I actually need to uncover this person's character.

我需要了解他们的价值观。

I need to uncover their values.

我或许需要更清楚地认识自己真正需要什么、重视什么，以及自己真正想要什么。

I perhaps need to get a little bit clearer on what it is that I need, what it is that I value, and what it is that I really, really want.

不只是我的偏好，而是我在一段关系中需要什么才能正常运作？

Not just my preference, but what do I need in order to function in a relationship?

我对自己有足够的了解吗？

Do I have some understanding of myself?

你知道，这很难。

You know, it's difficult.

女性到了生育年龄，社会压力催婚。

Women childbearing age, societal pressures get married.

我完全理解并对此充满同情。

I understand I have nothing but compassion for that.

我越强调这一点越好：你选择的伴侣，是你一生中最重要的决定之一。

The more that I can stress that who you decide to partner with is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your entire life.

我们注定会犯错，有些人犯错的时间比其他人更长。

And we are meant to kind of get it wrong and some of us get it wrong for a longer time than others.

但这是最重要的决定。

But it is the most important decision.

所以，如果你急于做出这个决定，你实际上是在伤害自己，你必须学会接受这样一个事实：是的，你感到害怕。

So if you're going to rush that, you're really truly doing yourself a disservice and you have to get comfortable with the fact that, yes, you're scared.

你害怕独自一人。

You're scared to be alone.

你害怕不被爱。

You're scared to not be loved.

你不想进入约会的世界。

You don't wanna be in the dating world.

我理解这一切。

I get all of that.

对此保持觉察。

Be mindful of it.

与自己内心深处的这种感受建立连接，并始终提醒自己：你决定与谁共度一生，可能是最重要的决定之一，甚至是最关键的决定，因为没有人会比你选择共度一生的伴侣对你整体的幸福和情绪状态产生更大的影响。

Connect to that within yourself and remind yourself always that who you decide to spend your life with might be one of the most important decisions, if not the most important decision because there's no one in your life who's gonna have a bigger impact on your overall well-being and emotional state than the person who you choose to spend your life with.

所以你必须认真对待这个决定，不要急于求成。

So you've got to take that decision very seriously and not rush it.

我经常对朋友说，单身有单身的痛苦，而处在错误的关系中也有它的痛苦。

I've often said to friends, there's the pain of being single and there's the pain of being in the wrong relationship.

是的。

Yes.

单身的痛苦远比陷入一段错误关系的痛苦要好得多。

And the pain of being single is a lot better than the pain of being in the wrong relationship.

完全同意。

Agree 100%.

完全同意。

Agree 100%.

当你和某人约会并已经深度交织进彼此的生活时，这真的很难。

It's so hard when you're dating someone and you've got enmeshed into each other's lives.

存在毒性，有复杂性，正如你之前所说，你们的价值观也存在脱节。

There's the toxicity, there's complexity, there's, as you said earlier, there's a disconnect in your values.

是的。

Yes.

这个人的品格，你以为你刚刚发现，但实际上他们早就表现出来了，只是你没看到那些迹象。

The person's character, you think you just discovered it, but actually they showed it all along and you didn't see the signs.

现在你开始想，天啊，我单身的时候反而更快乐。

And now you're thinking, gosh, I was happier when I was single.

当你单身时，你无法意识到这一点，因为恋爱的承诺如此诱人、令人陶醉，让你觉得我必须马上拥有它。

And you can't see that when you're single because the promise of being in a relationship is so alluring and intoxicating that we feel like I must have that now.

是的。

Yes.

而许多这样的人可能会想，是啊，单身时确实更轻松，但他们实际上害怕回到那种状态。

And many of those people might think, yes, it's easier when I'm single, but they're actually afraid to

不敢再回到单身。

go back to it.

这就是为什么他们留在这些关系中，因为我们害怕未知。

And that's why they stay in these relationships because we fear the unknown.

这里的要点是，当你只在寻找那个人时，要明白，那个人可能并不是下一个遇到的人。

The key takeaway here is that while you're only looking for that one person, understand that it might not be the next person.

但这并不意味着你要停止前行。

But that doesn't mean you stop showing up.

这意味着你需要运用洞察力，更清晰、更坚定地认识你自己以及你的需求。

It means you use discernment to get clearer, stronger and more grounded in who you are and what needs you have.

当你做到这一点时，你就能真实地展现自我，并尊重你应得的一切。

When you do that, you are able to show up authentically and honor what you deserve.

没有人受到伤害，没有死亡，没有创伤，只是在培养皿中生长了一些细胞。

No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish.

这是来自《内在宇宙》播客的大卫·伊格曼。

This is David Eagleman from the inner cosmos podcast.

本周，我们将探讨一个脑科学与未来交汇的难题。

And this week, we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future.

实验室培育的肉类将迫使我们直面伦理与想象力的边界。

Lab grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination.

它促使我们质疑：为什么我们恰恰在这些地方划下界限？这些界限是用墨水还是铅笔画下的？

It invites us to question why we draw lines exactly where we do and whether those lines are drawn in ink or in pencil.

这与神圣性、大脑可塑性、社会归属感、心理类别之间的混乱界限、肉体版权以及人格的未来有何关联？

And what does this have to do with sanctity, brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories, flesh copyrights, and the future of personhood.

我们要为自己设立怎样的标准？

What is the table we're going to set for ourselves?

这个问题揭示了脑科学和我们道德判断之间的什么联系？

What does this question uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality?

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《内在宇宙》。

Listen to inner cosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

本期《亲爱的切尔西》，由切尔西·汉德勒主持，尼古拉斯·斯帕克斯做客。

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here.

我猜你一定收到过很多反馈，说你设定的爱情与浪漫标准，很多男性可能都难以达到。

I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of love and romance that a lot of men probably can't measure up to.

在我的签售会上，我听过很多这样的故事。

I have heard such stories at my book signings.

对吧？

Right?

我的诺亚在哪里？

Where's my Noah?

我的《恋恋笔记本》里的约翰在哪？

Where's my John from Dear John?

同时，在我的职业生涯中，我在签书排队时收到了七次求婚。

And at the same time, in the course of my career, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book.

你

You

知道吗？

know?

真的吗？

Really?

我得到了

I got

达到那个桌面上。

up to the table.

涂鸦者跪了下来，真为他感到难过。

The doodle dropped his knees, feel so bad for him.

我当时就想，老兄，你身在阿拉巴马州伯明翰的沃尔玛，但这种事情真的发生了。

I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, but it's happened.

你遇到的这类故事比有人跑来说‘我毁了男人的一生’要多得多，对此我感到很高兴。

You get a lot more of those kinds of stories than people coming up and say, I've ruined I've ruined men for the for the rest, which I'm glad.

如果这种情况更普遍，我反而会感到不安。

I would feel bad if that was more common, actually.

不。

No.

你来找亲爱的切尔西就是为了这个，没错。

That's what you come to dear Chelsea for Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

为了得到升级。

To get upgraded.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或你收听播客的任何平台收听亲爱的切尔西。

Listen to dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是丹尼·夏皮罗，热门播客《家庭秘密》的主持人。

I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast family secrets.

我们在车里，突然放起了《滚石》这首歌，他说，里面有一句歌词是关于你妈妈的。

We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother.

我说，什么？

And I said, what?

如果我觉得自己不被接纳，我会选择一个别人无法拥有的身份。

What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.

我知道半夜发生了一些事，但我记不清具体发生了什么。

I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

这些只是我将在即将播出的第十三季《家庭秘密》中呈现的部分感人而重要的故事。

These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming thirteenth season of Family Secrets.

无论你是从第一季就一直陪伴我，还是刚刚加入《家庭秘密》大家庭，我们都非常高兴有你同行。

Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us.

我将深入探讨秘密那不可思议的力量——它们塑造我们的身份、考验我们的关系，并最终揭示我们真正的样子。

I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《家庭秘密》。

Listen to Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

在约会中，我们常常痴迷于自己吸引了谁。

So often in dating, we obsess over who we're attracting.

但真正的问题是，我们究竟在接纳谁？

But the real question is, who are we entertaining?

下一位嘉宾是关系教练萨迪娅·汗。

The next guest is relationship coach, Sadiya Khan.

近百分之八十的约会者表示至少被‘幽灵过’一次。

Nearly eighty percent of daters report being ghosted at least once.

萨迪娅指出，吸引力并不是问题所在。

And Sadiya reveals that attraction isn't the issue.

我们大多数人其实都能吸引各种类型的人。

Most of us can attract all types of people.

问题在于我们所习以为常的东西。

The problem is what we normalize.

深夜的信息、冷漠的态度、从不为你留出空间的人。

The late night texts, the dismissiveness, the person who never makes space for you.

正是在这些地方，我们失去了自己的力量。

That's where we lose our power.

我接触的大多数人觉得，他们总是吸引那些无法投入、不愿承诺、没有情感容量去建立联系的人。

Most people I speak to feel like they keep attracting people who are unavailable, people who don't want to commit, people who don't have the emotional capacity for connection.

为什么会这样？

Why is it?

不是我们吸引谁，而是我们容忍谁。

It's not what we attract, it's what we entertain.

大多数人其实能吸引几乎任何人。

Most people can attract pretty much everybody.

没错，只要我们足够努力，几乎能吸引到任何人。

Yeah, if we try hard enough, we can pretty much attract everybody.

但当我们自尊心低下时，我们会形成一种个人预言，认为对方本就该有点不可得。

But when we have low self esteem, we have these personal prophecies that people are supposed to be a bit unavailable.

对方应该很难追，或者他不回消息是正常的，他不问你今天过得怎么样也是正常的。

People are supposed to pay hard to get or it's normal that he doesn't text back or it's normal that he doesn't really ask me how my day is.

他在周五晚上十二点才给你发消息，这很正常。

It's normal that he only text me at 12AM on a Friday night.

因为他们认为这些行为是正常的，于是开始接受那些实际上不会带来健康关系的行为。

And because they believe that that's normalized to themselves, they start to accept what's actually not going to lead to a healthy relationship.

一旦他们意识到，问题不在于他们吸引到了什么，而在于他们容忍了什么，他们就能重新掌握主动权，说：我其实吸引到了各种各样的男人。

The moment they figure out not what they're attracting, but what they're entertaining, they can take their power back and say, I'm actually attracting all types of men.

但我一直与之建立情感依恋的，是那些让我感到焦虑、让我担心这段关系会走向何方的人。

But the ones I keep forming an attachment to are the ones that leave me a bit anxious and the ones that leave me worrying what this is and where this is going.

与其被这种人吸引，我开始明白，这其实是一个信号，表明他们有承诺恐惧症，这只会拖延我的时间，阻碍我结婚，阻碍我拥有家庭等等。

Instead of being attracted to that, I start to learn that that is a signal that they've got commitment issues and all it's going to do is delay my time, delay my ability to get married, delay my ability to, you know, have a family and so on and so forth.

因此，我们可以吸引各种各样的男人，但我们只容许那些能帮助你建立家庭和关系、或实现你目标的人留在身边。

So we can attract all types of men, but we only entertain the ones that will enable you to start a family and a relationship or whatever your goal is.

它们助长了这种状态。

They enable that.

如果它们不助长这种状态，就试着对它们失去吸引力。

And if they don't enable that, try and lose attraction for them.

为什么我们会更被那些让我们焦虑、不可得的人吸引？

Why do we feel more attracted to people who make us anxious and who are unavailable?

为什么我们认为那些人才值得追求？

Why is it that we think that they're the ones worth chasing?

首先，如果我们自尊心低下，就会觉得这种情况是正常的，没人会过度崇拜和爱我们。

Firstly, if we have low self esteem, we kind of see as that this is supposed to happen and nobody's supposed to just overly adore and love us.

这种情况很可能不会发生。

That's probably not going to happen.

如果自尊心低，被这样对待是正常的。

It's normal that we get treated like this if that's your low self esteem.

但另一点是，那些不可得的男人。

But the other thing is unavailable men.

有时他们展示了拥有多种选择和替代方案的理念。

Sometimes they demonstrate the idea of having options and alternatives.

他们的神秘感使他们显得更加吸引人。

Their mystery makes them seem more desirable.

正因为这种神秘感，我们假设他们正在经历一些有趣的事情。

And because of that mystery, we assume that they've got something interesting going on.

他们有其他选择。

They've got alternatives.

他们身上有些东西让他们忙碌且显得冷漠。

There's something about them that's making them busy and making them dismissive.

当我们真正意识到，其实他们只是情绪不成熟。

When we really realize that it's actually they're just emotionally immature.

他们并不是那个拥有无数事务缠身、工作占据一切、如此忙碌的特别男人。

They're not this special guy that's got a million things going and his work is taking over and he's so, so busy.

实际上，他只是情绪不成熟。

Actually, he's just emotionally mature.

他不知道如何承诺。

He doesn't know how to commit.

他不需要回避其他选择，而只需专注于一个人。

He doesn't have to ward off alternatives and just focus on one person at the time.

当你意识到这实际上是情感不成熟而非吸引力的信号时，我们就不会那么被那些无法健康沟通的人吸引了。

When you realize that it's actually a signal of emotional immaturity than desirability, we actually won't be so attracted to that person who can't communicate in a healthy way.

我觉得你说得非常到位。

I think just spot on.

当我听你说话时，我在想，如果你希望对方在合理的时间内回复消息，这并不是一个过分的要求。

When I'm listening to you, I'm thinking if you want someone like anyone should who texts back within a decent amount of time, that's not an abnormal request.

没有人真的那么忙。

And nobody's that that busy.

我知道像萨姆这样的男人工作很忙，或者我有这个那个要处理。

I know like men like Sam busy at work or I've got this going on.

我压力很大。

I'm that stressed.

完全可以理解。

Completely understandable.

但发一条信息让对方知道，就能让他们一整天都放松下来。

But one text to let that person know will enable them to just relax the whole day.

但你却缺乏情感成熟度或同理心，连一条简短的信息都不愿发。

But you can't have the emotional maturity or the empathy to just send that quick text.

那么这个人就不明白健康关系需要什么，可能也不值得你投入。

Then that person doesn't understand what it takes to have a healthy relationship and they're probably not worth your investment.

显然，如今很多人甚至都达不到这一步，因为他们是在约会应用上认识人的。

Obviously, a lot of people these days aren't even getting that far because they're meeting people on dating apps.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你一直在滑动，可能会和两三个陌生人展开对话。

And so you're swiping away, you might get into a conversation with two or three people.

首先，我们来谈谈这一点。

First of all, let's talk about this.

你根本没匹配到任何人，感觉一点都不顺利。

You're not matching with anyone like no one, it doesn't feel like it's going that well.

你会对那些觉得自己被拒绝太多次、逐渐失去信心、不再相信世界上有适合自己的人的人说什么呢？

What do you say to men and women who feel like they've been rejected a few too many times and they're losing that faith and ability to feel that there is someone out there for them.

你要小心一下，是你真的没匹配到人，还是你只是不喜欢那些匹配到的人？

Just to be careful on, are you actually not matching or are you disliking who you're matching with?

有时候，由于社交媒体和约会应用的影响，我们进入关系时几乎带着一种双重标准，或者将他人与我们的算法进行比较。

Sometimes what's happened is because of social media and because of dating apps, we enter relationships with almost like a, you know, a double standard or a sense of comparison of comparing people to our algorithms.

我们会说，如果他不是理想型，她不是理想型，如果他不是高价值男性，她不是高价值女性，我们就会带着反感的眼光看待匹配对象，但有时候更好的做法是看看那些主动匹配你的人，试着去判断：他们真的那么差吗？

We're saying, if he's not the dream guy or she's not the dream girl, if he's not a high value man and she's not a high value woman, we start to look at our matches with a level of like distaste when sometimes the better thing to do is look at the people who are matching with you and try and see, are they actually that bad?

他们有什么问题吗？

Are they some is there something wrong with them?

还是我只是在拿他们和一个我根本无法实现的理想伴侣形象做比较？

Or am I just comparing them to a dream idea or a partner that I haven't actually been able to access?

我总是觉得，你越喜欢自己，自尊心越高，就越能欣赏那些喜欢你的人。

I always just think the more you like the person you are, the higher your self esteem, the more you like people who like you.

那些主动匹配你的人，你自然会开始喜欢他们，因为他们匹配了你，说明你也喜欢他们，他们也喜欢你。

The fact that the person that are matching you automatically you start to like them all because they've matched you because you like you and they like you as well.

当你自尊心低下时，你会去追逐那些你无法触及的人。

When you've got low self esteem, you chase after people that you can't access.

所以我给人们的建议总是：先从喜欢你的人开始。

So my advice to people is always start with who likes you.

先从这个群体入手，然后仔细筛选，看看你们是否有相似的背景、价值观等等。

Always start with that poll and then home in on that poll and see if you've got similar demographics, values, so on and so forth.

但人们常犯的错误是，过度美化那些没有匹配你的人，渴望一种从未真正获得过的爱情。

But where people go wrong is they glorify the people that they're not matching with and wanting a love that they've never been able to access.

然后把实际匹配到的人，与这些并不真实存在的替代对象进行比较。

And then comparing who they do get matched with with these alternatives that aren't really real.

更好的做法是专注于那些真正对你有兴趣的人，并适当调整你的标准，以适应这些真正投入的人。

So the better thing is to focus on who does and maybe adapt your standards to those people who are actually invested in you.

这真的太对了，我觉得人们可能会说：那我为什么要将就？

It's so true and I feel like what I'm thinking people are gonna say is, well, why do I have to settle?

如果相似让你觉得是妥协，那可能是你的标准太高了。

If similarity feels like settling, then maybe your standards are too high.

我的意思是，有时我会遇到一些四十岁左右、离过第二次婚的男性，他们说：‘我不想找有包袱的女人。’

And what I mean by that is I sometimes will meet men who are in the maybe in their forties on their second divorce and saying, don't want a woman with baggage.

所以我需要一个25岁的女人。

So I need somebody 25 years old.

有时我也会遇到一些不工作的女性，她们说：‘我想找一个企业家，年收入六位数的男人。’

I don't want women with baggage or sometimes I'll meet women who are you know, not working and they say, I want a man that's an entrepreneur and got 6 figures.

但我总是说，你难道不该找一个和你相似的人吗？

But I always just say, shouldn't you be looking for someone similar to you?

如果‘和你相似’让你觉得是在妥协，那可能是你的标准有些过高了。

And if similar to you starts to feel like you're settling, then maybe your standards are a bit inflated.

如果你所付出的和你所得到的是匹配的，那你要求的并不过分。

If what you're bringing to the table and what you're receiving, if you're asking for that, you're not asking for too much.

但如果你希望对方填补你自我价值的空缺，那或许你确实需要稍微调整一下你的标准。

But if you're asking for people to fill the gaps in your self worth, maybe you do need to adapt your standards a little bit.

所以问问自己，相似感是否让你觉得是妥协？

So ask yourself, does similarity feel like settling?

如果确实如此，那么我们可能需要先提升自己，才能接触到真正渴望的人。

If it does, then maybe we need to work on ourselves to be able to access people that we're actually craving.

是的，你所说的很多内容都关乎觉察与诚实。

Yeah, it's so much of what you're talking about is just having awareness and honesty.

我知道。

I know.

我们必须对自己诚实，这种需求非常强烈。

Like there's such a need to be honest with ourselves.

而如今，要对自己诚实越来越难了，因为我们不断被抖音上的建议、以及那些鼓吹‘不要妥协’、‘你是某人的梦中情人’、‘你是高价值女性’的人所包围。

And it's harder, it's getting harder to become honest with ourselves because we are bombarded with advice from TikToks and advice from, you know, people that are giving advice about never settle, or you're somebody's dream girl or this is a high value woman.

所以我们认为，只要得不到算法推荐的标准，就是在妥协。

So we think that if we get anything less than what our algorithm is suggesting, we're settling.

但事实上，只要我们在价值观、成熟度以及对未来的规划上匹配，就并非真正的妥协。

When really, as long as we're matched in terms of values and maturity and where we see ourselves in the future, we're not truly settling.

我们只是在找一个合适的人。

We're just finding somebody who's compatible.

我的意思是，现在这么多使用约会应用的人，他们的共同经历都是被冷处理。

I mean, so many people on dating apps these days, their common experience is being ghosted.

我肯定你听过无数人说过，他们聊得好好的，结果对方突然就消失了。

And I'm sure you've heard from a million people about feeling like, hey, were having a good chat and this person just disappeared.

是的。

Yeah.

对于觉得自己被冷处理的人，你有什么建议？

What would be your advice to someone who feels like they've got ghosted?

我会说，试着保持合理的期望。

I would say try and have the reasonable expectations.

不幸的是，在数字世界里，人们把彼此视为可抛弃的，投入非常少。

Unfortunately in the digital world, people see each other as disposable and there's very minimal investment.

所以他们并不总觉得自己有义务给对方一个解释。

So they don't always feel like they owe somebody an explanation.

通常当他们选择消失时，要么是他们找到了其他人选，要么只是在应用上消磨时间，以从心碎中恢复。

And usually when they're ghosting, it's either they've met alternatives or they might have just been on the app to buy some time to heal from a heartbreak.

他们并不是真正寻找伴侣。

They're not truly looking for a partner.

他们只是想通过这种方式缓解压力，作为一种应对机制来疗愈自己。

They're just looking to kind of heal some or kind of recover from some kind of stress that they're going through as a coping mechanism.

所以如果他们对你消失，别太往心里去。

So if they're ghosting you, try not to take it too personal.

但如果你一直在和这个人约会，然后他们突然消失，那很可能他们在隐瞒什么信息。

But if you've been dating that person and then they ghost you, chances are they're hiding information.

无论出于什么原因，选择消失的人都是糟糕的沟通者。

Ghosters, regardless of their reason, they're still poor communicators.

无论他们选择消失的理由是什么，更根本的原因是他们不擅长沟通。

And whatever the reason that they have for ghosting you, the bigger reason is they're not great at communicating.

所以尽量减少对那些不善于沟通的人的吸引力。

So try and reduce your attraction to people who can't communicate well.

萨里亚提醒我们，重要的不是吸引对的人，而是有自尊心到足以不再理会错的人。

Saria reminds us, it's not about attracting the right person, but having the self esteem to stop entertaining the wrong ones.

如果一个人让你感到焦虑，那不是化学反应，而是不成熟。

If someone leaves you anxious, that's not chemistry, it's immaturity.

如果相似让你觉得是妥协，你的标准可能受到了比较文化的影响。

If similarity feels like settling, your standards may be shaped by comparison culture.

如果有人对你玩失踪，那是沟通能力差，足以成为你离开的理由。

And if someone ghosts you, it's poor communication, reason enough to walk away.

最终，你选择与谁交往，决定了你关系的质量。

In the end, who you choose to entertain shapes the quality of your relationships.

建立你的自尊，运用你的主动性，投资那些真正珍惜你的人。

Build your self esteem, use your agency, and invest in those who truly value you.

最后，治疗师兼作家劳里·戈特利布向我们展示了如何面对约会中最艰难的时刻：说出你的真相，知道何时留下，以及有勇气离开。

Finally, therapist and author, Laurie Gottlieb shows us how to face the hardest moments in dating: speaking your truth, knowing when to stay, and having the courage to leave.

坦诚表达你的需求并不是需求过多。

Being honest about what you want isn't needy.

这需要勇气。

It's brave.

然而，60%的人承认，他们留在关系中的时间比应该的更长，而只有6%的人离开得太早。

Yet 60% of people admit staying in relationships longer than they should, while only 6% leave too soon.

回避诚实不是善良，而是逃避。

Avoiding honesty isn't kindness, it's avoidance.

爱情中转变的关键不在于改变别人，而在于成长自己。

The key to transformation in love isn't fixing someone else, it's growing yourself.

很多人会说：‘哦，我知道我约会的那个人也在和其他人约会。’

Lots of people will say, Oh, you know, I know I think my other person that I'm dating is also dating other people.

我不希望和其他人约会，但我害怕自己太早表现得太过依赖。

I would like to not date other people, but I'm afraid that I'll appear too needy too early.

对吧？

Right?

与其如此，不如坦诚表达你的需求，让他们可以明确回答是或否。

As opposed to just being honest about what you want, they can say yes or no.

但要明确一点，我们现在是在约会。

But to be clear about, look, we're we're dating.

我不舒服的是，我知道你还在和其他人约会，而我们又花了很多时间在一起，我很难真正靠近你。

I don't feel comfortable with I I can't really feel like I can get close to you if I know that you're dating other people at this point because we're spending a lot of time together.

那你对这件事怎么看？

So how do you feel about this?

你准备好进入一段专一的关系了吗？

Are you ready to be in an exclusive relationship?

这对你有吸引力吗？

Is that of interest to you?

如果他们说不，太好了。

If they say no, wow, great.

你已经学到了很多。

You've learned a lot.

你可以做出选择，比如我愿意再这样继续一个月，或者不愿意，总之随你决定。

You can make a choice like I'm comfortable doing this for another month or I'm not or, you know, whatever it is.

或者他们会说：‘哦，我不知道这对你这么重要，我也希望如此。’

Or they can say, Oh, I didn't know that that was important to you and I would like that too.

那我们就这么做吧。

Let's do that.

或者我还没准备好这么做。

Or I'm not ready to do that.

所以人们在各种情况下都会这样做。

So people do this in all kinds of situations.

这不仅仅关乎婚姻。

It's not just about marriage.

他们太害怕在那种本应展现真实自我的关系中，真正做自己了。

They're so afraid to just bring their true selves into the kind of relationship where the the whole game here is bringing your true self to it.

所以如果你在关系的任何阶段都无法做到这一点，你就还没有准备好长期在一起。

So if you can't practice that at any point in the relationship, you're not ready to be together for the long term.

你不能只是说：‘哦，现在我们订婚了，现在我可以展现真实的自己了。’

You can't just say, Oh, now that we're engaged, now I can bring my true self.

这简直就是灾难的配方，因为现在你实际上是在歪曲自己在关系中真正想要和需要的东西。

Well, that's a recipe for disaster, because now it's like you've misrepresented what you actually want and need in a relationship.

也许对方也误解了你想要或需要的东西，因为你没有表达出来。

And maybe the other person has misinterpreted what you want to need because you haven't expressed it.

但我完全同意你的观点。

But we're so, I'm fully with you.

我只是觉得，我们天生就如此，我们太害怕被拒绝了。

I just find that we're so, it's so hardwired in us, like we're so scared of rejection.

是的。

Yeah.

你对那些节目怎么看？

How do you feel about those shows?

是的，它们很有趣。

And yes, they're entertaining.

是的，我们喜欢追八卦，关注发生了什么，一切的一切。

And yes, we love to get into all the gossip and what's going on and everything.

这如何影响我们的观点和我们自己的关系？

How is that affecting our views and our own relationships?

是的，我实际上没看过这些节目，但我的许多治疗客户都会提到它们。

Yeah, I haven't actually seen those shows, but many of my therapy clients talk about them.

你知道，寻找爱情是人类幸福和连接的重要支柱，当我看到我们自己在绊倒自己时，我感到心碎。

You know, finding love is just such a important pillar of human happiness and connection that it breaks my heart when I see that we're tripping ourselves up.

当我问我的社群，他们认为是什么让他们屡屡受挫时，他们提到了一个新词——‘未来跳跃’。

And when I asked my community what was one of the things that they think trips them up, it was this idea that they have now coined future tripping.

这种想法是指在脑海中规划未来，当事情看起来还不错或不错时，他们就在脑海中构想与这个人的未来，极端情况下甚至想象婚礼场景或孩子的模样。

This idea of planning the future in their head, visioning a future with this person when things are looking okay or good in their head they're, you know, in the most extreme cases imagining their wedding day or what their kids might look like.

但即使在当下，这种想法也可能是：就是这样了，这太棒了，这会持久的。

But even in the immediate sense, this could be it, this is amazing, this is going to last.

然后突然间，他们得到了现实的打击，发现对方并没有回应同样的情感。

And then all of a sudden they get a reality check where that person is not really mirroring that back.

我们该如何停止未来跳跃？或者，与某人进行健康的未来跳跃是否存在可能？

How do we stop ourselves from future tripping or is there a healthy way of future tripping with the person?

是否存在一种集体协作式的未来幻想？

Is there a collective collaborative future tripping?

那会是什么样子？

Like what does that look like?

我认为未来幻想就是活在当下。

I think the future tripping is being in the present.

我的意思是，现在发生的一切就是未来的样子。

And what I mean is what's happening now is what it's going to look like in the future.

所以，与其想象这个人会以某种方式改变，或者我们会拥有这样的生活，但你并不知道对方是否想要这样的生活。

So instead of imagining, this person will change in this way, or this we're going to have this kind of life, but you don't know if the other person wants that kind of life.

如果你现在不谈论这些，你就无从知晓。

If you're not talking about it now in the present, you don't know.

这个人现在是如何对待我的？

How does this person treat me now?

我们在一起时是什么感觉？

What is it like when we're together?

最大的指标是，我们发生过分歧，当时是如何解决的？

The biggest indicator would be we had a disagreement, how did we get through it?

那就是你的未来会呈现的样子。

That's what your future is going to look like.

我们对这件事没有达成一致。

We didn't agree on this.

我们彼此都很沮丧。

We were frustrated with each other.

我们意见不一致。

We had a difference of opinion.

我们是如何修复那次裂痕的？

How did we repair that rupture?

我们经常谈论裂痕与修复。

We talk a lot about rupture and repair.

每个人都会经历裂痕。

Everybody's going to have ruptures.

你和家人、朋友、同事、父母、孩子都会有这种冲突，尤其是和你的伴侣，因为我们有一个错误的想法，认为不应该和他们发生裂痕。

You have it with your family members, with your friends, with your coworkers, with your parents, with your children, especially with your romantic partners because we have this misguided notion that we shouldn't have a rupture with them.

因为我们深爱着对方，彼此理解，观点一致。

Because we're so in love and we see each other and we see eye to eye.

但当然，你们一定会发生裂痕。

But of course, you're going to have ruptures.

重要的不是你是否会经历裂痕，而是你如何应对它，以及它会是什么样子？

It's not so much whether you're going to have a rupture, it's what do you do with it and what does it look like?

所以，如果你们约会了六个月，却从未发生过冲突，那说明你们还不够深入。

So if you have been dating for, let's say, six months and you haven't had a rupture, you guys are not going deep enough.

你们彼此还不够了解。

You guys don't know each other well enough.

你们还在表现得最好的一面。

You're still on your best behavior.

你们必须能够做真实的自己。

You have to be able to be yourselves.

这将告诉你未来会是什么样子。

That's gonna tell you what the future looks like.

所以别再装了，做你自己，成为你希望的未来的样子，像你希望的未来那样行事，看看对方如何反应，观察你们之间会发生什么。

So stop the pretending, be yourself, be what you want your future to look like, act like you want your future to look like, see how the other person acts, and see what happens between the two of you.

一次修复可能看起来像这样：哦，我没想到我们现在正在发生争执。

And a repair would look like something like, oh, I didn't know, we're having a disagreement right now.

我们不如休息十五分钟，等情绪平复后再回来谈谈这件事。

Why don't we take fifteen minutes and let's come back when we're not so heated and let's talk about that.

或者你意识到自己犯了错。

Or you know you made a mistake.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我一直在想这件事。

I've been thinking about this.

比如说，你们吵了一架，说好先不说话，冷静几分钟，随便怎样。

You know, say you have an argument, you say we're not going to talk for a few minutes, let's go cool off, whatever.

你给他们打回去，说：你知道吗，我认真想过了。

You call them back and you say, you know what, I thought about it.

我错了。

I was wrong.

我真的很抱歉。

And I'm so sorry.

我做了这些事，而我希望我当时是这样做的。

Here's what I did and I wish I had done it this way.

如果你的伴侣能做到，或者你能做到，那真是太好了。

And that's great if your partner can do that or if you can do that.

对吧？

Right?

然后，如果你的伴侣能接受这一点，而不责备你。

And then if your partner then can accept that without shaming you.

如果你的伴侣能说：我真的很感激，我希望我当时能以不同的方式回应。

If your partner can say, I really appreciate that and I wish that I had reacted differently in this way.

在那些时刻，我怎样才能更有支持性呢？

And how can I be more supportive in those moments?

这太美好了。

That's beautiful.

那就是你的未来。

That's your future.

但你必须在当下看到它。

But you have to see it in the present.

你无法想象未来会是什么样子。

You can't imagine what the future is going to be.

你必须在当下真正地体验它，然后说：哦，现在我知道未来会和现在一模一样。

You have to actually live it in the present and say, Oh, now I know it's going to be just like it is right now.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你说的，如果你在心里制定了计划，却不敢说出口，那么这些计划就只存在于你的脑海中。

Like you're saying, like, if you are making plans in your head, but you're uncomfortable to talk about those plans, then they only exist in your head.

嗯。

Yeah.

就像它们不是真实的。

Like they aren't real.

它们会去那儿。

They going there.

关键在于，你在约会中的需求是合理的。

The takeaway, your needs in dating are valid.

你的真相就已足够，你的成长要么会加深这段关系，要么会为你带来更好的机会。

Your truth is enough and your growth will either deepen the connection or free you for something better.

约会不仅仅是滑动或等待运气。

Dating isn't just about swiping or waiting for luck.

而是关于当下、清晰和自尊。

It's about presence, clarity and self worth.

今天我们要记住的是：在你了解自己之前，你无法吸引到对的人。

Here is what we heard today that I want you to remember: You can't attract the right person until you get to know yourself.

在你学会开口要求之前，你无法得到你想要的。

You can't receive what you want until you learn to ask for it.

你会吸引你愿意接纳的东西。

You will attract what you are willing to entertain.

真正的化学反应源于诚实、开放和勇气。

And real chemistry comes from honesty, openness, and courage.

无论你是刚刚重新开始接触约会，还是正在积极约会，请记住，爱不是被找到的。

Whether you are just putting yourself back out there or actively dating, remember, love isn't found.

爱是被创造的。

It's created.

你有资格去创造它。

And you are worthy of creating it.

如果你喜欢这期节目，你一定会喜欢我和马修·哈西关于如何走出前任阴影、在关系中找到真爱的对话。

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

人们应该对自己富有同情心，但也要将这份同情延伸到未来的自己身上，因为真正地对未来的自己施以同情，就是在为他或她争取一个幸福安宁的人生机会。

People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self Because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

她是安娜·奥蒂兹。

It's Ana Ortiz.

我是马金达莱卡多。

And I'm Markindalekado.

你们可能认识我们扮演的希尔达

You might know us as Hilda

和贾斯汀。

And Justin.

来自《丑女贝蒂》。

From Ugly Betty.

欢迎收听我们的新播客，

Welcome to our new podcast,

贝蒂万岁。

Viva Betty.

耶。

Yay.

我们正在从头到尾重新观看这部剧。

We're rewatching the series from start to finish.

并且与像贝蒂本人——美洲·费雷拉这样的标志性嘉宾对话。

And talking to iconic guests like Betty herself, America Ferrera.

有一个时刻，当戴上眼镜时，我们就知道：这就是我们的贝蒂。

There was this moment when the glasses went on and it was like, this is our Betty.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Viva Betty》。

Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是伊娃·朗格利亚。

I'm Eva Longoria.

我是玛泰·戈梅斯约翰。

And I'm Maite Gomesjohn.

本周在我们的播客《饥饿的历史》中，我们聊了牡蛎，还有米安比酋长来做客。

And this week on our podcast, Hungry For History, we talk oysters plus the Miambi chief stops by.

如果你不是牡蛎爱好者，

If you're not an oyster lover,

别跟我提这个。

don't even talk to me.

古雅典人会把名字刻在牡蛎壳上，以投票将政客放逐。

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile.

所以我们的单词 'ostracized'（放逐）与 'oyster'（牡蛎）有关。

So our word ostracized is related to the word oyster.

不。

No

别想。

way.

把 ostracon 带回来吧。

Bring back the ostracon.

收听

Listen to

《Hungry For History》在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台

hungry for history on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your

嘿，你好。

Hey there.

医生。

Doctor.

我是杰西·米尔斯。

Jesse Mills here.

我是加州大学洛杉矶分校男性诊所的主任，我想向你介绍一下我的新播客《邮箱间》。

I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I wanna tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom.

我是乔丹，这个节目的制作人。

And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

和大多数男性一样，我已经很久没去看医生了。

And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long.

我会提出我们可能应该问但没有问的问题。

I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking but aren't.

每周，我们都会深入探讨男性健康的世界，从睾酮和健身到饮食和生育。

Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility.

我们会用通俗易懂的语言讲解科学，为你提供真正关心问题的切实答案。

We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

所以请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听其他节目的平台上线收听《邮局》。

So check out the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

这是 iHeart 播客《保证人性化》。

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.