金·佩雷尔：讨厌工作却不知何去何从？自问这7个问题，逐步规划你真正想要的职业生涯

这是一个iHeart播客。

This is an iHeart podcast.

所以我想问一下男士们：护肤流程这个词是否让你们觉得太麻烦了？是的，我猜就是这样。我以前也这么觉得，但这就是为什么你需要像多芬男士+护理身体和面部磨砂膏这样的护理妙招。我的意思是，它一步到位就能去角质、清洁和保湿。

So I have a question for the guys out there. Does the phrase skincare routine make you think too much work? Yep, I thought so. And I used to feel the same way, but that's why you need a grooming hack like Dove Men plus Care Body and Face Scrub. I mean, this exfoliates, cleanses, and moisturizes in one step.

这是终极的护肤妙招。你的皮肤会看起来和感觉更好，而你无需费力就能实现。只需在淋浴时加入新的多芬男士+护理身体和面部磨砂膏，给你的皮肤一个提升。在待办事项清单上打勾是保持头脑清晰的好方法。这就是为什么State Farm代理人会帮助你选择适合你的保险选项。

It's the ultimate skincare hack. Your skin will look and feel better, and you don't have to work hard to make it happen. Just add the new Dovemen Plus Care Body and Face Scrub into your shower and give your skin a boost. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great way to keep your mind clear. That's why a State Farm agent is there to help you choose a coverage option that's right for you.

随着你在生活中获得新房子、汽车、船、摩托车甚至房车，帮助保护它总是一个好主意。无论你喜欢面对面交谈、电话沟通，还是通过获奖的应用程序，State Farm都在那里帮助你保护对你重要的东西。而且有这么多保险选项，有人帮助找到适合你的选项真是太好了。就像好邻居一样，State Farm就在你身边。本集《On Purpose》由Chase Sapphire Reserve赞助播出。

As you go through life getting that new house, car, boat, motorcycle, or even RV, helping protect it is always a good idea. Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or on the award winning app, State Farm is there to help protect what's important to you. And with so many coverage options, it's nice having help to find what fits for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

我相信旅行是我们曾经被赋予的最伟大的礼物之一，而Chase Sapphire Reserve一直是我通往世界上最迷人目的地的大门。当我使用我的Chase Sapphire Reserve卡时，我在通过Chase Travel进行的所有购买中获得八倍积分，甚至还能获得独一无二的体验，比如音乐节和体育赛事。这甚至还没提到这张卡如何让我进入全国选定机场的Sapphire by The Club休息室。旅行因Chase Sapphire Reserve而更有回报。相信我。

I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel, and even access to one of a kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me.

了解更多信息，请访问chase.com/sapphirereserve。卡片由JPMorgan Chase Bank NA发行。会员FDIC。需经信用批准。适用条款。

Discover more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA. Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply.

恐惧是令人麻痹的。我不想失败。我不想被拒绝。但我总是回想：我会比不做这件事更后悔吗？如果一年后我还在同样的死胡同工作中，我会回头看吗？

Fear is paralyzing. I don't want to fail. I don't want to get rejected. But I always think back to, will I regret it more than not doing it? Will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead end job?

比起害怕做出决定并可能是错误的决定，我更后悔不做决定。如果你不把自己置于真正让你感到不适的境地，你该如何前进？

I will regret that decision more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one. How are you gonna move forward if you don't put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

排名第一的健康与养生播客。

The number one health and wellness podcast.

杰伊·谢蒂。杰伊·谢蒂。

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

独一无二的杰伊·谢蒂。

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

大家好，欢迎回到《On Purpose》。非常感谢你们收听，一起变得更快乐、更健康、更治愈。今天我非常兴奋，因为我不仅采访到一位实力雄厚的企业家，也是我亲爱的朋友，以及我和罗迪的气泡茶品牌Juni的联合创始人。我知道你们很多人都是粉丝。

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning in to become happier, healthier and more healed. I am so excited today because I get to interview not only someone who's a powerhouse entrepreneur, someone who's a dear friend and a co founder in mine and Roddy's sparkling tea brand Juni. And I know so many of you are fans.

希望你们现在一边观看一边喝着它。但我想向你们介绍我的一位最亲密的朋友，我对他充满敬意和钦佩，他真正践行所言，并建立了令人难以置信的企业。如果你正困在一份讨厌的工作中，这一集是为你准备的。如果你有一个想法或热情，但不知道如何开始，这一集是为你准备的。如果你已经迈出了那一步，但正在努力弄清楚自己是否选对了行业，成为企业家意味着什么，需要付出什么，这一集也是为你准备的。

I hope you actually drinking it right now while you're watching. But I want to introduce you to one of my dearest friends, someone that I have so much respect for, so much admiration for, someone who truly walks the talk and has built incredible businesses. If you're someone who's stuck in a job that you hate, this episode is for you. If you're someone out there who has an idea or a passion, but you don't know how to get started, this episode is for you. And if you've already taken that leap but you're struggling to figure out whether you're in the right business, what it means to be an entrepreneur, what it takes, this episode is for you.

我今天的嘉宾是金·佩拉尔，九次创业的创始人，两次畅销书作者，投资了超过100家公司，也是四个孩子的骄傲母亲。金在23岁时在厨房餐桌上建立了她的第一家公司，30岁时成为千万富翁，并以2.35亿美元出售了她的上一家公司。现在，她通过她的新书《让我成为百万富翁的错误：如何将挫折转化为非凡成功》，帮助下一代企业家，包括我和Rally，将错误转化为价值百万美元的教训。如果你正在收听或观看，我希望你去拿一本这本书。链接在评论区。你不会后悔的。

My guest today is Kim Peral, nine time founder, two time best selling author, investor in over 100 companies, and a proud mom of four. Kim built her first company from her kitchen table at 23, became a multimillionaire by 30, and sold her last company for $235,000,000 Now she's helping the next generation of entrepreneurs, including me and Rally, turn mistakes into million dollar lessons with her new book Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire How to Transform Setbacks to Extraordinary Success. If you're listening or watching right now, I want you to go and grab a copy of the book. The link is in the comments. You won't regret it.

欢迎来到《On Purpose》节目，Kim Perrell。Kim，很高兴你能来到这里。

Please welcome to On Purpose, Kim Perrell. Kim, it's great to have you here.

非常感谢，Jay。我也非常高兴能来到这里。

Thank you so much, Jay. I'm so happy to be here.

我知道能再次和你相聚让我很兴奋，因为我们初次见面是在我为你第一本书《执行要素》做采访的时候，我们立刻就产生了共鸣，我很喜欢一位企业家在那里谈论执行和真正做事。而现在你在这里谈论错误，这再次让我觉得是一个非常重要的话题。我想开始的地方，我们会谈到Junie以及所有我们期待的那些精彩内容。但我真正想开始的是，现在我的很多观众可能正在收听或观看，他们正困在自己不喜欢的工作中感到停滞不前。

I know I'm so excited to be back with you because we actually met when I was interviewing you for your first book ever, The Execution Factor, and we instantly connected and I loved that an entrepreneur was out there talking about execution and actually doing stuff. And now here you are talking about mistakes, which again, I think is such an important thing to talk about. And where I want to start and we'll get into Junie and all the amazing stuff that we're excited about. But where I really want to start is so much of my audience right now is probably listening or watching. They're feeling stuck in a job that they don't love.

他们可能有一个想法，或者甚至不知道自己热爱什么，只是不知道从哪里开始。你应该做的第一件事是什么？

They might have an idea or maybe they don't even know what they're passionate about and they just don't know where to start. What's the first thing you should do?

天啊。是的。我完全能理解。我交谈过的很多人都在说自己如何被困住。我在书中谈到了停留太久的问题，对吧？

Oh my gosh. Yes. I totally relate. And there's so many people that I talk to that are saying how they are stuck. And I wrote, I mean, in the book I talk about staying too long, right?

在你讨厌的工作中停留太久，每天早上醒来都害怕去上班，如何摆脱这种状态。我称之为我的“出口匝道策略”。就像，出口匝道在哪里？如何从今天的位置到达我想要去的地方？第一步是从思考开始，对我来说，一年后的今天我想在哪里？

Staying too long in a job you hate and the job you wake up and you dread going to and how do you get out. And I call that my exit ramp strategy. Like, what's the exit ramp? How do I get from where I am today to where I want to be? And the first step starts with thinking, for me, where do I want to be in one year from today?

如果你试图把所有事情都规划好，会让人感到不知所措。但如果你能只是思考，我的愿景是什么？一年后我想在哪里？然后倒推回今天，采取微小的一步一步去实现它，这样就更可控了。我认为一年是一个足够好的时间，能够让你付诸行动，迈出第一步，做出你想要的改变。

It gets so overwhelming if you try to have it all mapped out. But if you can just think, what's my vision? Where do I want to be in one year? And then work your way backwards to today and take small tiny steps in order to achieve it, it's more manageable. And I think a year is a good enough, you know, a nice enough amount of time to be able to put that first step into action and make that change that you want to make.

但这始于认知和行动，你知道，就是划下那条界限——我决心要改变我的生活。

But it starts with knowing and making, you know, putting that line in the sand that I'm going to change my life.

是的，我记得，我在回想那些想要放弃或转行的边缘时刻。在我开始做这一切之前，我在一家企业工作，稳定、安全，但我不热爱它，也不算特别成功。我擅长自己的工作，但要走上成功的职业轨迹还需要很长时间。我记得对我来说，是问了那个问题，而且有趣的是还有另一个极端的问题：我想成为公司里那些比我年长二十岁的人的样子吗？所以我会观察公司里那些比我资深十到二十年的人，然后思考：二十年后我想做他们正在做的事吗？这也是为了现实检验，对吧？

Yeah, I remember, I'm thinking about when I've been on the verge of wanting to quit or move and before I started doing all of this, was in a corporate job, I was stable, I was safe, I didn't love it and I wasn't necessarily that successful. I was good at what I did but it was gonna be a long time before I had a successful career trajectory. And I remember for me, it was asking that question and also funnily enough another question which was kind of at the other extreme which was, do I wanna be where everyone else is who's twenty years older than me in this company? So I would look at someone who's at the company who's ten, twenty years older, more senior than me, I do think, do I wanna be doing that when I'm twenty years older than myself to also get a reality check, right? Does that wasn't Yeah, it like

二十年？多少次？我的意思是，肯定不该待那么久，对吧？但前几天真的有人告诉我他们一份工作做了二十年。我想，天啊，二十年啊！我的经验法则是：如果你既没有赚到钱也没有学到东西，就必须做出改变。

in twenty years, How many times? I mean, definitely shouldn't stay that long, right? But someone actually told me the other day they were in a job for twenty years. I thought, Oh my gosh, twenty years, right? My rule of thumb, if you're not earning and you're not learning, you got to make a change.

如果你还没到那个阶段，比如工作不满三年，但超过三年后，你真的要审视自己的职业路径，因为可能会陷入停滞。是的，然后你就只是继续待下去。说实话，我也曾在一份工作上待得太久。我的公司都已经卖掉了。

And if you're not there, say you've been in a job less than three years, but over three years, you've to really look at what is your career path because you could just get stuck. Yeah. And you just end up staying. And honestly, I stayed too long in a job. I mean, I had sold my company.

我最终留下来是因为舒适。但那并不是我技能和才华的最高效运用。只是轻松而已。而做出改变很可怕，对吧？

I ended up staying because I was comfortable. But I wasn't living the highest and best use of my skills and my talents. It was just easy. And it was scary to make change. Right?

嗯，我觉得就是这样。在我们深入探讨那些让你成为百万富翁的错误之前，我认为对很多人来说，我们只是害怕，因为我们看不到选项。我们真的不知道有什么可能性。我们可能甚至身处一个让我们怀疑自己能力的工作环境。也许你从未在一个能让你自我感觉良好的赋能环境中。

Well, think that's what it is. Like I think a lot of people before we dive into some of the mistakes that made you a millionaire, like I think for a lot of people we're just scared because we don't see the options. We don't really know what's available. We maybe even have been in a workplace that's made us doubt our abilities. Maybe you've not been in an empowering place where you feel good about yourself.

也许你有一个不认可你或你付出的老板，或者有一群让你变得畏缩的同事，或者你只是基于大学所学找了一份工作，现在却发现你甚至不再喜欢这个了。所以当你害怕、面对恐惧时，你会怎么做？因为恐惧会让你如此瘫痪、如此困顿。你会怎么做来突破那种恐惧，比如说：至少让我思考接下来一年，至少让我看看周围的选项。

Maybe you have a boss that doesn't acknowledge you or your commitments or maybe you have a team of people that have made you shrink a little bit or maybe you've just ended up in a job based on something you studied at college and now you realize I don't even like this anymore. So when you're scared and you're facing fear, what do you do with that? Because it can keep you so paralyzed and so stuck. What do you do to break through that fear of saying, well, let me at least think about the next one year. Let me at least look at the options around me.

我的意思是，这确实会让人瘫痪，对吧？我自己就经历过这种情况，完全被恐惧所麻痹。我害怕失败，害怕被拒绝，害怕尝试新事物所带来的痛苦。

I mean, is paralyzing, right? And I've had that happen for me, just paralyzing because I am scared. I don't want to fail. I don't want to get rejected. I don't want the pain that comes with trying something new.

但我总是会回想，如果不做这件事，我的后悔会超过恐惧吗？比如，一年后如果我还在那个死胡同般的工作岗位上，每天厌恶自己的工作，我会发现那种后悔远比害怕做出错误决定更强烈。所以真正需要思考的是：后悔的情绪是否大于恐惧？

But I always think back to, Will I regret it more than not doing it? Like, Will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead end job and I hate you know, what I do every day, I will regret that decision more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one. And so really thinking about is the regret, you know, bigger than the fear?

是的，完全同意。我特别喜欢这个问题，我也确实深思过这一点——正是这种思考让我走上了现在的道路。如果我从未尝试涉足媒体行业，我肯定会后悔。现在回想起来，我觉得天啊，要是当初没尝试，我简直会是世界上最傻的人。你说得太对了，后悔可能是唯一比恐惧更强烈的情感，我们需要借助这种力量来突破自我、获得成长。

Yeah, definitely. And I love that question and I've definitely sat with that and I think that's what made me do what I do now, which was I would have regretted if I never tried my hand at media. And I'm look back now and I think, oh my gosh, I would have been the craziest person in the world to not try. And you're so right that regret is probably the only emotion stronger than fear and you have to kind of tap into that to unlock and get better.

没错，按照你的思路想，二十年后我会后悔停留在这里——这种后悔也适用于维系各种关系。你回头看时会后悔自己曾经陷入那样的关系。但是改变真的很难，我完全理解。

Yeah, and thinking to your point, in twenty years, I will regret staying here and regret It's doing also about just staying in relationships. You're gonna look back and regret being in that too. Like how? But it's hard to change. I get it.

我自己也经历过。改变实在太难了，做决定也很艰难。但还是要记住：不做决定带来的后悔远比行动带来的后果更糟糕。

Like I've been there. It's so hard to change. It's hard to make the decision. But again, making sure that you think about the regret of not making the decision is so much worse.

是的，你说的第一个错误就是等待100%准备好。这一点你完全说到了关键。我真心认为我们都困在你所说的

Yeah, mistake number one you say is waiting to be 100% ready. I think this is, you hit the nail on the head with this one. I really, truly, truly believe that we're all wrapped up in what you call the four P's like the perfectionism, like wanting it to be perfect, brilliant, know everything about everything. You say we wanna be, we procrastinate, like we'll just overthink the thing. How ready do you need to be in order to start?

如果用1到10分来衡量，或者更准确地说用百分比，0到100%，你需要达到百分之多少的准备好程度才能开始？

Like on a scale of one to 10 or actually let's look at percentages, zero to 100%, What percentage ready do you need to be in order to start?

我认为当我审视自己是否100%准备好时，这主要是恐惧心理，我也曾经历过。我创办第一家公司时并没有准备好。我的意思是，我当时太年轻，没有经验，从未当过CEO，也没有任何资金。我确实仔细计算过，因为我是那种A型人格。

I think when I look at being a 100% ready, and it is mostly the fear and I've been there. I wasn't ready when I started my first company. I mean, I was too young, I didn't have an experience, I'd never been a CEO. I didn't have any money. I definitely I calculated because I was my type a personality.

做了个电子表格分析。结论就是还没准备好。金米，你还没准备好。你知道吗？但在那个时候，你必须决定：你是否已经足够准备好了？

Made a spreadsheet. It's like not ready. Kimmy, you're not ready. You know? And at that point, you have to decide, are you ready enough?

嗯。

Mhmm.

而我做决定的方式其实是我很早就学到的一个原则。我听说过海军陆战队的一个经验法则，即70%规则。它说的是：如果你有70%的把握，就应该采取行动。如果你等到100%准备好，机会就已经错过了。所以我开始运用这个70%规则来采取行动。

And the way I decided was actually I learned really early on. I had heard this Marine Corps rule of thumb, which is the 70% rule. And so it said, If you're 70% ready, you should take action. If you're 100% ready, you've already missed the opportunity. So I started using that rule, the 70% rule, to take action.

这帮助我平衡了分析与行动，不断向前推进。我现在仍然一直在使用这个规则。如果我有70%的把握，我就会采取行动，继续前进。并假设自己会在过程中解决问题。按照你的观点来看，这个百分比应该是多少？

It helped me balance analysis and action and move forward. And I still use it all the time. If I'm 70% ready, I take action, I move. And I assume I'm gonna figure it out along the way. And if you think, so to your point, what's the percentage?

70%？

70%?

我喜欢这个观点，真的很赞同。我认为你说得很对。我特别欣赏你提到的一点是：大多数成功人士都知道他们会在过程中找到解决方案。他们不相信自己做的第一件事就是最好的，也不相信自己发布的第一个版本就是最终版本。

I like that, I like that. Yeah, that really resonates. I think that's right. I think one thing I love that you said about there is that I think most successful people, they know that they'll figure it out along the way. They don't believe that the first thing they make will be the best thing or they don't believe the first thing they put out will be the final thing.

我认为当我们经验不足时，我们会觉得，不行，我推出的第一个产品必须是最好的。但仔细想想，这怎么可能呢？就像耐克制作的第一双鞋并不是他们最好的鞋。我们和Junie合作的第一款饮料，我们的第一批口味也不是我们最好的口味。

And I think when we're inexperienced, we think, no, the first thing I have to put out has to be my best thing. And you think about that and you go, how's that even possible? Right? Like the first pair of shoes that Nike made were not their best shoes. The first drink that we made with Junie, like our first flavors were not our best flavors.

你制作的第一个东西永远不会是最好的，它不会是最后一个，也不会是最终版本。所以你怀着这样一种愿景：我会在过程中逐步完善。一个人如何知道自己已经准备好了70%？如果他们有一个想法，70%意味着什么？你认为这由哪些部分组成？

Like the first thing you make is never gonna be the best, it's not gonna be the last and it's not gonna be final. And so you had this vision of I'll figure it out along the way. How does someone know they're 70% ready? Like if they were, if they had an idea, what does 70% classify? Like what do you think that's made up of?

我认为70%意味着你已经足够完善，只是在打磨细节，对吧？你还在想，哦，我可以调整一下我的演示文稿，或者修改一下商业计划，或者再等一会儿。你知道，你会找各种借口。所以我认为当你开始为为什么还没准备好找借口时，那就是70%了。

I think 70% is enough that you're still like perfecting the edges, right? Right. You're still thinking, Oh, I could make a tweak to my deck or make a tweak to my business plan or make a wait a little bit longer. You know, you make up excuses. So I think as the point where you start making excuses for why you're not ready, that's the 70%.

对。

Right.

对。所以我认为这并不是说我什么都没做，显然不是。你必须达到70%。所以你有了一个想法，可能已经制作了一个原型。

Right. So and I think it's not, I have done nothing, obviously. You have to be 70%. So you have an idea. You've probably made a prototype.

你已经准备好进入市场，然后却说服自己为什么不能这么做。

You're ready to go to market, and then you convince yourself why you can't do it.

是的。

Yes.

这正是你需要去获取客户反馈的关键时刻。你我都明白。你必须走出去，获取客户反馈，获取市场反馈，因为你很可能会做出改变。

That's the point where you actually need to go and get customer feedback. Me and you both know. You gotta get out there, get the customer feedback, get market feedback because you're gonna likely change.

是的。跟我详细说说这些步骤，因为你刚才列出的那些步骤我认为非常重要。你刚说，你得做个产品，得做个原型，得获取客户反馈。当你考虑构建某样东西时，无论它是什么，这实际上是最快搞清楚的方法。而拥有原型或最小可行产品的理念是核心。

Yeah. Talk to me about those steps because those steps that you just laid out I think are so important. You just said, you gotta make a product, you gotta make a prototype, you gotta get customer feedback. When you think about building something, whatever it may be, that is actually the fastest way to figure it out. And this idea of having a prototype or a minimum viable product is core.

就像，如果你想写一本书，那就先写一篇博客文章。对。然后把博客文章发布出去，看看人们是否与之产生共鸣、与之互动，他们在上面留下了什么评论。如果你想开始一个播客采访，我的意思是，当我第一次遇见你时，我还没有播客。我是在Facebook直播上采访别人。

Like, so if you want to write a book, write a blog post. Yeah. And put the blog post out there and see whether people connect with it, engage with it, what comments they put on it. If you want to start a podcast interview, I mean, when I first met you, I didn't have a podcast. I was interviewing people on Facebook live.

是的。我可以看到评论说了什么，我可以与人互动，这给了我信心去拥有一个采访节目并真正建立一个播客。对我来说，这是对任何人的第一步。就像无论你想构建什么，都先构建一个最小、最便宜、最简单的版本，然后把它发布出去，对吧？

Yeah. And I could see what the comments were saying and I could engage with people and that gave me confidence to have an interview show and actually build a podcast. To me that is the first step for anyone out there. It's like whatever you wanna build, build the smallest, cheapest, easiest version of it and put it out there, right?

是的，跟我说说梦想的一些

Yes, Talk me about dream some of

你不得不这样做的例子。

the examples you've had to do that with.

我的意思是，没错。我认为对我来说，就是梦想要大，真的非常大，然后从非常小的地方开始。对吧？从小处着手。人们总是问我，我需要有钱才能创业吗？

I mean, yeah. I think for me, it's dream big really, really big, and then start really small. Right? Start small. And people ask me all the time, do I need to have money to start a business?

答案是否定的。你今天实际上并不具备。我的意思是，你需要真正拥有毅力和能力将产品推向市场。可以是农贸市场，这并不重要。

The answer is no. You actually don't today. I mean, you need to actually have the grit and the ability to get your product to market. So it could be a farmer's market. It doesn't matter.

也可以是挨家挨户推销。你只需要推出一个最小可行产品，并验证是否真的有人愿意为此付费。因为如果没人愿意付钱，那这就只是个爱好。是的，总有人过来说：我有个很棒的想法。

It could be going door to door. You just have to get a minimal viable product and understand if you actually, someone will pay for it. Because if not gonna pay for it, it's a hobby. Yes. You've always come and they're like, I got a great idea.

会有人为你的想法付费吗？如果不会，那就是个爱好，这很好，但企业的目的是赚钱。

Will someone pay for your idea? If it's not, it's a hobby, which is nice, but a business is here to make money.

完全正确。是的，我今天早些时候还和人讨论过这个。我们在Air One推出冰沙时，很多人前来参加。如果你还记得，我们当时结合新书发布、饮品等一切在Air One举办了这场发布会，我们非常喜欢那里，很多人排队等候，成群结队地进来。我遇到一个人，他非常兴奋地想为我制作内容，想与我合作。他给我看了一些作品，看起来很不错，我说：很好，和我的团队聊聊，建立联系。

Absolutely. Yeah. I was talking about it with someone earlier today. We had, when we launched our smoothie at Air One, a lot of people come and so I did this launch, if you remember, we did it with the book and our drinks and everything else at Air One and we loved them over there and we had a lot of people wait outside and they came in droves and I met this one guy who was like really excited to make content for me and like work with me. And he showed me some of his stuff and it looked cool and I was like, cool, talk to my team and get connected.

结果接下来我知道的是，他去度假了，只是为了好玩在拍摄Junie。

The next thing I know he was on vacation and shooting Junie just for fun.

我喜欢这个故事。

I love that.

然后他发送了

And then he sent

他给我发了一张照片，现在他正在我们业务的不同部分编辑很多东西。但情况是一样的，他给我看了一个最小可行产品。对。所以他出去拍了照片，我从未要求他这么做，也没人告诉他，他去拍了，当时他正在度假。他在海里拍摄了Junie罐头，通过私信发给我照片，我看到了就觉得，伙计们，这张照片真的很棒。

me a picture and now he's editing so many things across different parts of our business. But it was the same thing, he showed me a minimum viable product. Right. So he went out and did a photo shoot, I never asked him to, no one told him to, he went and did it, he was on vacation. He shot Junie cans in the ocean, sent me pictures on DMs, I just saw it and I was like, guys, this picture is really great.

我记得把它发到我们的聊天群里，整个团队都说，哦，太棒了。我说，是的，我们免费得到了它。就像这家伙刚刚制作出来，现在他正在工作。所以无论如何，我只是觉得当你能构建出你相信的最简单、最容易、最便宜的版本时，那就是第一步。是的，然后我会听取人们的意见。

I remember sending it to our chat and the whole team was like, oh, that's awesome. And I'm like, yeah, we just got it for free. Like this guy just made it and now he's working. So in any regard, I just feel like when you can build the simplest, easiest, cheapest version of what you believe in, that is the first step. Yes, And then I'm hear what people have to say.

我们如何克服那种担心人们会怎么看待我们发布的东西的预感？因为当它是最简单、最便宜的版本时，我们知道它并不完美，现在我们试图过度辩解，说，是的，但这不是最终版本，但是，你如何允许自己发布一个只有70%完成度的东西，明知人们会批评、评判并对它发表意见？

How do we get over that hunch that we're scared of what people are gonna think of what we put out there? Because when it's the easiest cheapest version, we know it's not perfect and now we're trying to like over justify and be like, yeah, but this isn't the final one and it, but how do you allow yourself to put out something that's 70% knowing that people are gonna criticize, judge and have an opinion on it?

我的意思是，他们反正都会评判的，对吧？所以我这样看，那些反对者、批评者和梦想杀手，无论你做什么，他们都会告诉你为什么行不通。当我创办第一家公司时，他们说，互联网是一时的风尚。就像，互联网不会有任何前途。显然，互联网变得如此庞大。

I mean, they're gonna judge anyway, right? And so I look at it, the naysayers and the critics and the dream killers, they're gonna tell you why it's not going to work no matter what you do. When I started my first company, they're like, that Internet is a fad. Like, that Internet's going to be nowhere. Obviously, the Internet became so large.

但在那个时候，你只是你

But back in the time, you just you're

想想真是疯狂。

Crazy to think.

想想人们说，不。互联网公司会——金，这显然是个糟糕的主意。但你对你的想法的信心必须大于任何人的怀疑。这是底线。所以你只需要比你之外的任何人都更相信你正在构建的东西。

It's crazy to think that people are like, no. The Internet company is gonna it's a terrible idea, Kim, obviously. But your confidence in your idea has to be greater than anyone else's doubt. That is the bottom line. So you just have to believe more in what you're building than anyone else's.

那些都是噪音。你只需要屏蔽噪音，继续朝着你的愿景前进。

Like that's all noise. You just gotta shut out the noise and keep pushing towards your vision.

你看到了什么？因为你指导过这么多创业者，投资过这么多公司，自己也一直在创建这么多公司。你注意到妄想自信和有效的妄想自信之间有什么区别？因为几乎每个在生活中获胜的人某种程度上都是妄想的。他们不得不过度相信。

What have you seen? Because you've also coached so many entrepreneurs, you've invested in so many companies, you continue to build so many companies yourself. What have you noticed about the difference between delusional confidence and delusional confidence that works? Because it almost feels like everyone who wins at life is delusional to some degree. They had to over believe.

但你也看到一部分人确实过度相信，但那里什么都没有。就像那里没有价值。

But then you also see a subsect of people who do over believe but there isn't anything there. Like there isn't value there.

我的意思是，是的。

I mean, yeah.

那这是怎么回事？

Where does that come in?

想法一文不值，执行力才是一切。所以我经常收到推销，我有一个很棒的想法，很棒的想法。你知道吗，三个月后他们还会告诉我他们仍然有一个很棒的想法。然后一年后我会见到他们，金，我有这个惊人的想法。说实话，我希望那个人，无论是男人还是女人，来找我说，我有一个很棒的想法，而且我已经开始了。

Ideas are a dime a dozen, execution's everything. So I get pitched all the time, I got a great idea, great idea. You know what, the next three months from now they're gonna tell me I still have a great idea. And then I'll see them in a year, Kim, I got this amazing idea. Honestly, I want the guy or the woman, the man, whoever it is, to come with me, say, I've got a great idea, and I already started.

但我开始了。我在浴室开始了。我在厨房开始了。我在车库开始了。我不在乎你在哪里开始，但我真的有勇气迈出第一步。

But I started. I started my bathroom. I started my kitchen. I started my garage. I don't care where you start, but I actually had the courage to take the first step.

梦想容易，行动难。所以我想要的是那些正在付诸实践的人。

It's easy to dream, it's hard to do. And so I want someone that is doing it.

是的。这就是为什么当你看《鲨鱼坦克》或《龙穴》时，最令人印象深刻的企业家是那些已经有销售数据的人。即使处于早期阶段，投资者总是更看重这个，而不是那些说'我们还没投放市场，我们不知道'的人。对吧。这种学习和迭代的理念，我认为是在转变我们的思维方式，因为我觉得在学校时，当你交上报告，事情就结束了。

Yes. That's why when you're watching Shark Tank or Dragon's Den, the entrepreneurs that are the most impressive are the ones who already have sales data. Even if it's early days, the entrepreneurs are always more impressed by that than they are about someone who's like, well, we haven't put out a market yet, we don't know. Right. And so that idea of learning and iterating and I think it's like shifting our mindset because I feel like when we were at school, when you handed in a report, that was it.

对，对吧？我们在学校被训练成认为，交报告或考试一旦完成就是最终结果。而现实生活和商业是，你交上第一个版本的原型，然后迭代、改进、调整、进化。所以这对人们的大脑来说是一个真正的转变，因为我们都被条件反射地认为，一旦交上去就定了，那就是你的分数。

Right. Right? So we were trained at school that when you hand in a report or you do an exam, it's final, it's done. Whereas real life and business is you hand in your first version of a prototype and then you iterate and you improve and you change and you evolve. And so it's a real shift for people's brains because we've all been conditioned to believe that no, once you hand it in, that's it, that's your grade.

因为如果你得了A，那很棒。如果你得了C，那就是C了。你的成绩单上就是C。你不能说'哦，现在我要把报告改得更好七倍，我要改这段落，我要做这个研究'。而现实生活恰恰就是这样。

Because if you've got a grade A, that's great. And if you've got a grade C, that's it. You've got a grade C on your scorecard. You didn't get to go, oh, well now I'm gonna make that report seven times better and I'm gonna change this paragraph and I'm going to do this research. Whereas that's what real life's like.

那么你是如何训练自己和其他人改变这种思维模式的？因为我觉得我们很多人迷失在认为'不，这是最终的，完成了'。我没有那种能力去弄清楚并让事情变得更好。

So how have you trained yourself and trained other people to change that mindset? Because I feel so many of us get lost in thinking, well, no, it's final, it's done. I don't have that ability to figure it out and make things better.

我觉得观察这一点很有趣，因为正如你所说，人们被训练成追求完美，对吧？这些完美的画面，我得个A，就继续前进。但现实是，我认识的最成功的人都在犯错并一路迭代。这才是你获得最大成长的地方，因为你把自己置于其中。你实际上能接受失败。

I think it's interesting to watch because people are trained, to your point, to want to be perfect, right? These picture perfect, I get an A, I move on. But the reality, the most successful people that I know are making mistakes and iterating along the way. And that's where you get the most growth because you're putting yourself out there. You're actually being okay if you fail.

嗯。如果你能接受失败，你成功的可能性可能翻倍。对吧？首先失败的企业家，统计上证明第二次会做得更好。所以你实际上应该把自己置于可能不会成功的位置。

Mhmm. And if you're okay to fail, you're probably twice as likely to succeed. Right? The entrepreneurs that fail first are gonna, you know, statistically proven to do better the second time. So you actually should be putting yourself in positions that you might not be successful.

是的，我正在看电影，你刚刚让我想起了一些事。我最近又在看《大创业家》，这是我最喜欢的电影之一。它讲述了雷·克洛克如何建立麦当劳的故事。如果你还没看过，任何正在收听或观看的人，一定要去看这部电影，我想它在Netflix上。我之所以重看，是因为它确实是我最爱的电影之一，里面有一个场景：雷·克洛克——他并非麦当劳的创始人，而是从麦当劳兄弟手中接手并壮大了业务——和他妻子去了一个会员俱乐部，那是他妻子想去的地方。他所有的朋友都听说了他那些糟糕的商业点子，他执行了但这些点子都失败了。

Yeah, I was watching a movie, you just reminded me of something, I was watching The Founder again recently, which is one of my favorite movies. It's the story of Ray Kroc and how he built McDonald's. And if you haven't watched it, anyone who's listening or watching, make sure you go watch the movie, it's on Netflix I think. But I was watching it again because it's truly one of my favorite movies and there's this scene in it where Ray Kroc who's the, who never founded McDonald's but built the business because he took it off the McDonald's brothers. But there's a scene where he's at like this members club with his wife that his wife wants to go to and all of his friends have heard about all his bad business ideas and he's executed on them but they've all failed.

所以麦当劳像是他的第七个生意之类的，不是他的第一个。因此周围的人都有点嘲笑他，说'哦，这是你的又一个特许经营点子？很酷的特许经营模式？'就像大家都在取笑他。而在那一刻，他的妻子站出来为他辩护，说'不，我觉得这次不一样'，他们有点听她的，因为她认为这次不同。但有趣的是，我们都害怕最亲近的人，因为他们见过我们失败。所以犯错和失败让人不舒服，因为周围的人会提醒我们这些失败。

So McDonald's is like his seventh business or something like that, it's not his first. And so all the people around him are kind of laughing at him going, oh, is this another one of your franchise, oh cool franchise model? Like everyone's laughing it off and in that moment his wife kind of stands up for him and says, well no, I think this time it's different and they kind of listened to her because she thinks it's different. But it's so interesting that we're all scared of the people closest to us because they've seen us fail. And so making mistakes and failing is uncomfortable because the people around us kind of remind us of it.

就像餐桌上的每个人都在说'雷，这是你的又一个疯狂想法？'那么，当你觉得最亲近的人是你最大的怀疑者时，你会怎么做？因为我认为，我们并不担心互联网上的陌生人。我们也不担心客户，因为你甚至不认识他们。你担心的是你妈妈会说什么。

Like everyone at that table was like, Ray is this another one of your crazy ideas? And so what do you do when you feel like the people closest to you are your biggest doubters? Because I think that's, we're not worried about the internet. We're not worried about a customer because you don't really even know that. You're worried about what your mom's gonna say.

比如，我记得当我辞去安稳的工作去做现在的事情时，我的全家人都说'你知道你今年要结婚了吧。结婚的时候不能辞职。那太不安全了。'或者我听到这样的话'你在当过和尚之后那么幸运才得到那份工作，得到那份工作对你来说那么难，现在你要离开？你怎么能放弃呢？'

Like, I remember when I was quitting my safe job to do what I do today, my whole family was like, you know you're getting married this year. Like you don't quit your job when you're getting married. Like that's so unsafe. Or I was hearing things like, well, you were so lucky to get that job after you lived as a monk, you know, was so hard for you to get that job, like now you're going to leave that? Like how are you going to give that up?

你怎么支付房贷？你怎么付房租？这些都是人们会听到的话。所以犯错和失败很难，因为这几乎像是每个人都在提醒你过去的错误。那么该怎么办呢？在我们进入下一部分之前，先听听赞助商的消息。

How are you going to pay your mortgage? How are you going to pay rent? Like these are the things people are hearing and so making mistakes and failing is hard because it's almost like everyone reminds you of your past mistakes. So what do you do? Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

生活总会弄脏东西。我们说的是泼洒、污渍、宠物和孩子。但有了Anabay，你再也不必为污渍烦恼。在washablesofas.com上发现Anabay沙发，唯一内外均可机洗的沙发，起价仅699美元。采用防液体和防污渍面料制成。

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets, and kids. But with Anabay, you never have to stress about messes again. At washablesofas.com, discover Anabay sofas, the only fully machine wash able sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics.

这意味着更少的污渍和更多的安心。为真实生活设计，我们的沙发配有可更换面料罩，让你随时焕新风格。需要灵活性？我们的模块化设计让你轻松重新布置沙发，非常适合舒适公寓或宽敞住宅。此外，它们环保且经久耐用。

That means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly, perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last.

这就是为什么已有超过20万满意的顾客选择了我们。今天就升级您的家居空间。立即访问washablesofas.com，带回家一款为生活而生的沙发。网址是washablesofas.com。优惠可能随时变动，且可能适用特定限制条款。

That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply.

你是否曾带着魔法来到华特迪士尼世界，就像在说：嘿，我们是来玩的？你是否向克里奥尔公主行屈膝礼致敬，或正式变得像高飞一样憨态可掬？是否像大佬一样挺身而出拯救世界？或体验生命之树下的生活？你有过吗？

Have you ever brought your magic to Walt Disney World like, hey, we came to play? Did you tip your tiara to a creole princess or get goofy officially? Step up like a boss and save the day? Or see what life's like under the tree of life? Did you?

如果可以，你愿意吗？当我们到来时，那是真正的魔法，因为我们为玩乐而来。在华特迪士尼世界度假区带来魔法。

If you could, would you? When we come through, it's true magic because we came to play. Bring the magic at Walt Disney World Resort.

这里是马特·罗杰斯和鲍文·杨，来自《拉斯文化人》节目，与马特·罗杰斯和鲍文·杨一起。

This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

JBL Tour Pro 3耳机专为那些不墨守成规的人打造。

JBL Tour Pro three earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard.

没错。我的意思是，如果你想体验触屏技术，那智能充电盒和ClearSound语音技术怎么样？这些可不是标配。只有JBL Tour Pro 3才能给你这些，宝贝。而且我

Yeah. I mean, if you wanna get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, ClearSound? These are not standard things. You're only gonna get them with the JBL Tour Pro three, baby. And I

热爱JBL的声音表现。这些耳机充满了创新，因为跟随他人无法让你脱颖而出。

love the sound of JBL and goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others.

触控智能充电盒支持一键控制、即时EQ定制、真正自适应降噪，以及独特的音频发射器，可即插即用，兼容从游戏机到机上娱乐设备的一切。

Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one of a kind audio transmitter, which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment.

音频发射器还支持JBL Spatial 360音效，能将任何音频转化为360度沉浸式体验。

The audio transmitter also allows for JBL Spatial three sixty sound that takes any audio and turns it into a three sixty immersive experience.

还能奢求什么呢？先到先得。请访问jbl.com购买。

What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair at jbl.com.

感谢您花时间了解这个。现在回到讨论中。

Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion.

对我来说，成长过程中，我父亲是个连续创业者，他总是处于破产边缘，不断尝试各种类似雷克罗夫特的冒险。总是有新点子，追逐梦想，押上全部家当。但晚餐时，他会问我们：今天遇到最糟的事是什么？所以从很小的时候，他就让...我的意思是，这样问很奇怪——我有四个孩子，对吧？如果我总问他们：今天最糟糕的事是什么？

For me, when I was growing up, my dad is a serial entrepreneur, and he was always on the brink of bankruptcy and starting some very much like Raycroft. Always got some idea, chasing some dream, betting the farm. But at dinner, he would ask us, What was the worst thing that happened to you today? And so, from a very young age, he normal I mean, it's very odd to ask I have four children, right? If I ask him all the time, What's the worst thing that happened?

说实话，我觉得这对我父亲来说是种创业疗法。但附带作用是，它让我对失败习以为常，因为失败变得可以接受。那么我们如何与自己进行同样的对话？今天遇到最糟的事是什么？我的意思是，我们都知道自己是在经商。

I think it was entrepreneur therapy for my father, to be honest. But side note, it normalized failure for me because it became okay to fail. And so how do we have the same conversation with ourselves? What's the worst thing that happened to you today? I mean, like, we know we're in business.

每天都会出点问题。

Something goes wrong every single day.

当然。

Absolutely.

这是不可避免的。但你如何应对它才是关键所在。如果我们能把挫折、挑战和出错的事情看作是通往成功的必要垫脚石，那就对了。这是必然的，对吧？成功不是一条直线。

It's inevitable. But how you respond to it is what makes the difference. And so if we can just look at the setbacks and the challenges and the things that go wrong as essential stepping stones to what will go right. And it's inevitable, right? Success isn't a straight line.

它是一条蜿蜒曲折的道路。如果你能继续前进，并明白：好吧，我会被拒绝。事情不会按我的意愿发展。开始为自己将失败正常化，让它变得可以接受。至于家人，我的家人是拥抱失败的。

It's a winding, curving road. And if you can continue to push forward and know that, Okay, I'm going to get rejected. This isn't going to go my way. And start normalizing failure for yourself and making it okay. And with all the family, I mean, my family is embracing failure.

我完全理解在其他家庭显然不是这样。但即使在我创办公司时，他们也告诉我这是个糟糕的主意。就像，这又回到了你必须相信这一点。当然不是盲目相信。你必须进入市场并确保它是可行的，但不要听那些唱反调的人的话。

I totally get in other families, obviously that's not the case. But even when I started my company, they told me this is a terrible idea. Like, again, it goes back to you just have to believe. Like, obviously not to delusion. You have to get to market and ensure that it's viable, but don't listen to those naysayers.

是的。那你如何将这一点传递给你的孩子们呢？就像你说的，你不会坐下来对你的孩子们说，今天发生在你身上最糟糕的事情是什么？你不会用同样的方式去教。对吧。

Yeah. How do you then pass that on to your kids? Like you said, you wouldn't sit down with your kids and say, what's the worst thing that happened to you today? Like you wouldn't teach it in the same way. Right.

你打算如何教导你的孩子关于失败和犯错，以及不要评判自己或担心被评判？你是怎么做的？我知道他们还小，但就像你说的，这要从娃娃抓起。

How are you thinking about teaching your kids about failure and making mistakes and not judging themselves or worrying about judgment? Like how do you do that? And I know they're young, but like you said, this starts young.

这要从娃娃抓起。所以对于威尔，我改变了餐桌上的对话。我用了一个叫做‘糟、哇、棒’的方法，‘糟’是指发生在你身上最糟糕的事情，对吧？‘哇’是指发生在你身上最好的事情。

It starts young. So for Will, I changed the dinner table conversation. I used something called pow, wow, bow, which is pow, the worst thing that happens to you. Right? Wow, the best thing that happens to you.

然后鞠躬，比如，你对什么心怀感激？所以这是对餐桌仪式的一种不同诠释，但它让他们明白失败和错误是正常的，美好的事情也会发生，这是一种不同的方式来教导他们如何从挑战中恢复过来。

And bow, like, what are you grateful for? So it's a different take on the dinner table ritual, but it grounds them in understanding failure and mistakes are normal, great things happen, and it's a different way to teach them how to bounce back from the challenges.

嗯，你几乎是在教他们这是三分之一，就像它是其中的一部分。

Well, you're almost teaching them that it's one third, like it's a part of it.

对。

Right.

但每天都会发生一些奇妙的事情，总有一些值得感激的事情，这确实是一种更完整的人生观。

But then there's something amazing that happen every day and there's something to be grateful for which is really, which is a much more complete view of life.

没错。

Right.

而不是仅仅盯着哪里出了问题。

Rather than just looking at what went wrong.

正是如此。

Exactly.

但这很重要。是的，我在回想我人生中什么时候有过这种经历，比如在学校时，我觉得可能是我的美术老师，他总希望作品是不完美且原始的。

But it is important. Yeah, I feel like I'm trying to think about it where it happened in my life, like where I just, I feel like at school, it was probably my, I feel like it was my art teacher who just, he wanted things to be imperfect and raw.

哦，这其实很棒。

Oh, that's amazing actually.

我从来不擅长绘画，所以总觉得自己没有艺术天赋。但他让我明白艺术是表达，不是看你自画像画得多好（我根本不会画），也不是看人物肖像有多逼真。他说那不是艺术，艺术是表达、故事和创造力。所以我觉得他消除了我对完美的执念，因为一想到艺术，我们总会想到《蒙娜丽莎》。而当你看到杰克逊·波洛克的作品时，你会觉得那不就是些点点嘛，这算什么？

And I was never good at painting or drawing, so I always thought I was bad at art. And he made me realize how art was expression and it wasn't how well you could draw a self portrait, which I can't do or how well you draw a person. Like he was like, that's not art, art's expression and story and creativity. And so I think he took away that perfectionist idea because I think when we think of art, we think of the Mona Lisa. And then when you look at someone like Jackson Pollock, you're just like, that's just dots on a, you know, what is that?

或者就是些线条和点，但其实不是的，那背后有某种表达，有某种行之有效的理论。无论你是否能欣赏，关键在于艺术本就不完美，它是富有表现力的，并不总是像一幅完美无瑕、色彩惊艳的画作。所以我回顾童年时就在想，我是在哪里学会失败并坦然接受的？即使现在我也明白，我们每天都必须经历失败才能达到现在的状态——无论是我们发布的内容，还是选择做的播客等所有事情，失败是唯一的途径。我常对团队说，我们30%的内容必须失败。哦，看吧，因为这个比例，差不多70%...是的，同样的比例

Or like lines and dots and, you know, but it's like, no, there was some expression, there was some theory behind that that worked and whether you can appreciate or not, the idea is that art is imperfect, it's expressive, it's not always like a picture perfect painting and the colors being amazing. So I look in my childhood and I go, where did I learn to fail and be okay with it? And even now I know that we have to fail every single day to get to where we are in the content we put out, the podcast we choose to do everything like it is the only way. And I always say to my team, 30% of our content always has to fail. Oh, see, Because know that's a percentage and it's kind of 70 Yeah, percent, same

一回事，没错。

thing, yeah.

我说我们30%的内容必须是实验性的。必须要有30%的实验性内容，因为如果我们只做现在正在做的事情，就永远发现不了下一个内容风格、形式或类型。但我一直在思考，如何帮助人们真正接受这一点，因为说起来容易做起来难。当你说'杰伊，如果我失败了，可能就再没机会了'——我觉得人们就是这么想的：如果我被拒之门外，还能去哪里？比如我去推销我的想法，如果不够好，不就完了吗？

And I'm like 30% of our content has to be experimental. 30% of our content has to be experimental because we'll never discover the next style, format, genre of content if we just keep doing what we're doing right now. But I'm always trying to think like, how do I help people really embrace that because it's easy to say and hard to do when you're like, well, Jay, if I fail, I may never get another shot. And I think that's how people feel that if I get the door shut on my face, where am I gonna go? Like if I go pitch my idea and it's not good enough, isn't that the end?

不会的。我觉得这正是我们的误解所在。作为投资人和创业者，我融资很多也投资很多。你会被拒绝100次。所以当有人来说'哦，有人不喜欢我的想法，他们只想投资五个人'时，听着，你还有95个人要找呢。

No. And I think that's what we have wrong because as an investor and as an entrepreneur, I raise a lot of money and I invest my lot of money. You're going to get rejected a 100 times. So when people come and they said, oh, someone didn't like my idea, they wanna invest five people. Listen, you got 95 more to go.

对吧？这就是个数字游戏。所以你必须明白，如果你想成功，就得经历很多次拒绝。这没关系。老实说，这是过程的一部分。

Right? This is a numbers game. So you have to understand that if you want to be successful, you're gonna have to get rejected a lot. And that's okay. It's honestly part of the process.

而且我通常会说，去追求拒绝。是的，去追求拒绝。只管出现并尝试获得拒绝，因为你在主动出击。每一次推销你都在进步。

And knowing I usually say, you know, go for the no. Yeah. Go for the no. Just show up and try to get the no because you're putting yourself out there. You're getting better with each pitch.

你在了解投资者想要什么或不想要什么。等到你做到第100次时，你就完全掌握了。是的。同时你也克服了对拒绝的恐惧，对吧？

You're understanding what the investor wants or doesn't want. And by the time you get to a 100, you got this nailed. Yeah. And you overcome your feel of rejection at the same time, right?

是的，而且你学到了很多。我记得昨天我们在为我们其中一个品牌做推销和合作，我们开了一个会，团队准备了一份非常出色的全面演示文稿。但我能在十分钟内看出，我们正在交谈的CEO心思不在这里，他们的思绪在别处。他们人在场，但我能感觉到这并没有打动他们。所以

Yeah, and you learn so much. I remember yesterday we were pitching and working with one of our brands and we sat on a meeting, the team had come up with this really amazing comprehensive deck. But I could see within ten minutes, the CEO that we were talking to was cut, their head was in a different space. They were present but I could tell that that wasn't turning their wheels. And so was

就像，我们把这个放一边，进行

like, let's just put this aside and have

一次对话，通过对话我们学到了更多，而不是仅仅一厢情愿地谈论我们计划的内容。我认为这也是其中的一部分。就是要真正在场，然后说，好吧，我就听着。倾听。

a conversation and we learned so much more through having a conversation rather than just delusionally just talking about what we'd planned. And I think that's part of it too. It's like actually being present and going, well I'm just gonna listen. Listen.

因为实际上，如果我只是倾听，我会学到很多

Because actually if I just listen, I'm gonna learn so

更多地了解你真正想要什么、需要什么，以及你的大脑如何运作。现在我可以诚实地面对自己，回想多年前我创办教练公司时，曾去一家教练公司推销。这远在我做内容创作之前。我当时在向一家企业的人力资源采购负责人推销关于情商的企业教练课程，他们告诉了我他们的需求。我记得离开会议时心想：我其实没有你们想要的东西，但还是非常感谢。

much more about what you actually want, what you need, how your brain works. And now I can be honest with myself and go, I remember actually years ago when I was building my coaching company, I went to pitch at a coaching firm. This is so beyond before my content. And I was pitching a corporate coaching session on emotional intelligence and I was talking to the head buyer at this corporate company in HR and they told me what they wanted. And I remember leaving the meeting go, I actually don't have what you want like, but thanks so much.

我为自己能够承认确实没有他们想要的东西而感到自豪，这没关系。但我能找到需要我所销售产品的人，对吧？

And I felt so proud of myself for being able to admit that I actually didn't have what they were looking for and that was okay. But I would be able to find someone who was looking for what I was selling if that Right, makes

是的，当然。

yeah, for sure.

我认为这是一种信念——认识到世界上的空间远比我们想象的要大。我们总觉得只有耐克能成功，但仔细想想：有耐克、阿迪达斯、锐步、新百伦、匡威、鳄鱼...我可以一直列举下去。但我们的大脑似乎被设定为只相信有两个成功品牌。现在有Lululemon、Viore、Aloe等等，你会发现这个领域在不断扩展。可能五年前你会说运动休闲市场已经饱和了。

And I think it's that belief of recognizing that there is space in the world for so much more than we think there is. I think we think there's only space for Nike. And then you think about it, you're like, wait a minute, there's Nike, there's Adidas, there's Reebok, there's New Balance, there's Converse, there's Lacoste. I can go on and on and on but we kind of in our brain are wired to believe there's only two successful brands. There's Lululemon, there's Viore, there's Aloe, there's, you know, it's like now it just starts expanding and you could have said, well, oh you could have said athleisure was already all done like five years ago, it's too saturated.

但现在又有Set Active、Fabletics等品牌出现。你开始意识到：世界上真的有很多空间。

But now you've got set up active, you've got Fabletics. You know, you start recognizing, oh, there's a lot of space in the world.

空间如此之大，你不需要创新，但可以迭代。我们需要明白的是如何迭代出下一个版本的任何你想创造的东西。我经常收到推销，人们会说'这个想法已经有人做过了'。

There's so much space and you don't have to innovate but you could iterate. And that's what we have to understand is how do you iterate the next generation of that version of whatever it is you're trying to create. I mean, I've been pitched. People are like, This idea has already been gone. Right?

就像有人推销创意时，别人会说'这绝对行不通，这个创意早就有了'。但我最终投资了，因为我赌的是人，结果这个项目市值达到了约300亿美元。所以老实说，如果有人告诉你'已经有人做过了'，我不相信。因为总有可能做得更好。

Like, was pitching ideas and someone was like, this is never going to work. The idea already had. I ended up investing because I bet on the people, and it went to like a $30,000,000,000 market cap. So honestly, if someone tells you it's already been done, I don't believe you. Like, it could be outdone.

这是可以区分的。有更好的营销方式。正如你所说，总有机会去创造。

It could be differentiated. There's better marketing. There's always an opportunity to your point to create.

是的，是的。这正是你需要寻找的。

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what you've got to look for.

没错。

Yes.

我们过于担心成为第一或最好，而不是追求与众不同。

We're too worried about being first or being the best instead of being different.

完全正确。

Exactly.

人们购买的是差异性，而不是第一或最好。

And people are buying difference, not first or best.

不，他们只想要你的独特之处，对吧？比如，你为什么与众不同？

No, they would just want what makes you unique, right? And like, why are you different?

为什么它在跟我说话？

Why is it talking to me?

没错，没错，是100%在说话

Exactly, exactly, is it 100 talking

跟我说话？一个品牌之所以能与你对话并建立比其他品牌更深的连接，无论规模大小，都是有原因的

to me? There's a reason why a brand speaks to you and connects with you more than another no matter how big or small it may

确实如此。机会永远存在。

be. Exactly. There's always opportunity.

这正是我们需要投入精力的地方，而不是总想着'天啊我要落后了，天啊我要垫底了'。你提到的第二个错误是试图独自完成一切的想法。

That's where we need to put our energy rather than like, oh my God, I'm gonna be behind, oh my God, I'm gonna be last. The second mistake you talk about is this idea of trying to do it all alone.

哦是的，这太难了。我知道，我想很多人都会这样想。我是作为双胞胎长大的，从小我就一直在和我的双胞胎姐姐竞争，她在几乎所有事情上都比我更聪明、更快、更优秀。我们参加了一个测试，她最终在基因测试中取得了优异成绩——明明基因相同，这根本说不通。

Oh yes, that's so hard. I know, Talk to I think a lot of people can think like that. I mean, I grew up as a twin and from an early age, I was always in competition with my twin sister and she was smarter and faster and better than me at basically everything. We took a test. She ended up being, you know, aced the test genetically with the same, so it didn't make any sense.

但她被送到了天才学校。而我因为没考好就留了下来。朋友们打电话对我说'你不是聪明的那一个'，这种标签会伴随你。但从那时起，我就变成了独行侠。就像，好吧，那我就什么都自己来吧。

But she got bussed off to the smart school. And I stayed back because I didn't ace the test. My friends called me and said, You're not the smart one, which labels you. But then from an early age, I just became a lone wolf. Just like, Okay, I'll just do everything on my own.

我不会试图与她竞争。我会打网球、游泳。任何单人运动都可以。因为我……我不想竞争。

I'm not going to try to compete with her. I'll play tennis. I'll swim. Anything that's a lone sport. Because I I didn't didn't want to compete.

但这其实是个巨大的错误，因为试图独自完成所有事情不会让你走得太远。直到后来，当我精疲力尽，每天独自在厨房桌前工作十六个小时后，我才明白，除非你身边有合适的人，否则你不可能真正成功。这对我来说是一个转折点。我认为对很多人来说，不管是因为自尊心，还是你想独自完成以向世界证明自己能做到——也许又是这个原因。但从统计上看，你无法独自成功。

But that is such a mistake because trying to do everything alone will not get you very far. It's only until later after I was burnt out, exhausted, working sixteen hours a day by myself at my kitchen table that I learned that there's no way you will be truly successful until you surround yourself with the right people. And that was a game changer for me. And I think for so many people out there, for whatever reason, ego or you just want to do it alone because you want to prove to the world that you can do it, again, maybe. But statistically, you won't be able to do it alone.

对我来说，导师指导一直是我成功的关键因素。我的意思是，甚至我们自己在业务中也有一位很棒的导师。仅仅拥有一位导师——据统计，93%的白手起家的百万富翁都有导师。这对任何想要成功的人来说都是最低垂的果实，对吧？而且导师不一定非得是非常成功的人。

And for me, mentorship has been such a key factor in my I mean, even us, we have a great mentor in our business. So just having a mentor Statistically, 93% of self made millionaires have mentors. It's the lowest hanging fruit for any person that wants to be successful. Right? And a mentor doesn't have to be someone that's hugely successful.

可以是当地的商家。只需要一个比你稍微领先一点的人。对吧？关键是要有一个你可以学习的人，他经历过、做过，能够教导你，因为你无法独自成功。没错。

It could be the local business vendor. It just needs someone that's a little bit ahead of you. Right? And that's the key is someone that you can learn from, who's been there, who's done that, who can teach you because you will not be successful alone. No Yeah.

一

One

我认为你说得太对了。我觉得这是我们寻找导师时最大的错误——我们总想被电视上看到的人指导。但那些人要么不可及、没空、没时间，而且他们的成功方式也完全不同。你说得太对了，真正应该做的是去和你当地的面包店、设计店、本地商家交流——当然现在一切都本地化了，都在线上。对吧。有那么多公司和那么多人都很乐意帮忙。

I think that's the, I think that you just nailed it. That's the biggest mistake I think when we make trying to find mentors because we want to be mentored by the people we see on TV And that person's either not accessible, available, doesn't have time, but also they've found that success in such a different way. And you're so right that what you really wanna do is talk to your local bakery, talk to your local design store, talk to your local, you know, and now everything's local, it's online. Right. And there's so many companies and so many people that would be happy.

和我聊聊如何与导师建立有效的关系吧。我觉得现在人们很纠结：有些人没时间，每个人都很忙，没时间做导师；而导师有时觉得每个人都在索取、索取、索取。然后有人说，让我为你做些工作吧，但这又带有隐藏议程，比如'哦，那你要免费指导我'。所以我觉得现在这个领域有点混乱。

Talk to me about how you build an effective relationship with a mentor because I think people are struggling right now where some people don't have time, everyone's very busy to give time, mentors. Then mentors sometimes feel like everyone's just take, take, take, take, take. And then there's people saying, well, let me do some work for you. But then that comes with like a hidden agenda of like, oh, and you're going to give me free mentorship. So I think it's kind of messy space right now.

那么，你究竟如何建立有效的导师关系？如何找到一位导师，又如何与他们建立有效的关系？

Like how do you actually build an effective mentoring relationship? How do you find one and how do you build an effective relationship with one?

好的，这些都是很好的问题。第一，如何找到一位导师？三个字：一起喝咖啡。

Okay. So those are good questions. One, how do you find one? Three words. Let's have coffee.

在我们这种情况下确实如此。因为你可以轻松地邀请某人进行15分钟的咖啡或茶约。对我来说，我已经这样做了二十年，15分钟就够了。杰伊，你想要15分钟吗？当然，你不能在电视上给某人发邮件问他们是否愿意给你15分钟时间。

In our case, but yes. Because you can easily ask someone for fifteen minutes of a coffee date or a tea date. That is like to me, and I've been doing this for twenty years, fifteen minutes. Jay, do you want fifteen minutes? Granted, you cannot email someone on TV and ask if they want to have fifteen minutes of your time.

但你可以给你网络中真正想学习的五个人发邮件，尝试找到一个个人连接点。比如你发邮件给我说：嘿Kim，你是个双胞胎。我正在为双胞胎、商界女性、10岁以下儿童创建一些东西。我需要一个个人连接。这样我就有了指导你的意愿。

But you could email someone, I guarantee, five people in your network that you actually want to learn from and try to find a personal connection point. So if you email me and say, Hey Kim, you're a twin. I'm building something for twins, women in business, children under the age of 10. I need a personal connection. And then I have the desire to mentor you.

导师关系是个人化的。如果有价格标签，那就不是导师，而是顾问。所以如果有人说要收1万美元、2千美元或1千美元来指导你，那都不是真正的导师。我是说，我指导很多人。

Mentorship is personal. If there's a price tag, that's not a mentor. That's a consultant. So if someone's saying, I'll mentor you for $10,000 $2,000 $1,000 whatever it is, that's not a mentor. I mean, I mentor a lot of people.

这真的是因为我希望这个人成功。所以我愿意投入我的时间来确保他们的成功。你需要的是真正关心你、真正在乎你和你在创造什么的人。这种导师关系是无价的。找到这样的导师，我的意思是，你唯一需要做的就是找到那位导师，因为当你遇到障碍时，你可以打电话给他们。

It is truly I want the person to be successful. And so I'm going to dedicate my time to ensuring their success. And you want someone who actually cares about you, who really cares about you, what you're creating. And that type of mentorship is so priceless. And so finding that, I mean, there's only one thing you do ever, is finding that mentor, that person because you're going to hit roadblocks, you call them.

如果你能找到合适的导师，这将是一种非常美好的连接。但再说一次，如果你打电话给某人而他们没有回电，那他们就不是你的导师。

It's such a beautiful connection if you can find the right one. But again, if you call someone and they don't call you back, that's not the mentor.

是的，然后你就会卡住。你需要找到那个有时间给予、关心你、愿意这么做的人。仅仅因为某人不愿意这么做并不意味着他们是坏人，他们只是不适合做你的导师。

Yeah, and you get hung up. You want to find the person who has time to give, who cares about you, who wants to do that. And just because someone doesn't wanna do that doesn't mean they're a bad person, they're just not your mentor.

没错。

Right.

因为他们可能在为别人做这件事。

Because they might be doing it for someone else.

是的，时机不对也没关系。不要往心里去，出去找别人。列出10个你希望得到其指导的人，开始联系他们。我的意思是，再次强调，要采取行动。因为就像我说，'哦，金，我需要一个导师'，那就去出现并提出请求。

Yeah, the time's not right, that's okay. And don't take it personally, go out and find another Make a list of 10 people that you'd love to mentor and start reaching out. I mean, again, take action. Because I'm like, Oh, Kim, I need a mentor. It's like, Okay, well show up and ask.

我的意思是，我能指导这些优秀的人，就是因为他们主动开口问了。

I mean, the reason I have some of these amazing people that I mentor is because they just asked.

是的。太棒了。

Yes. Great.

是的。寻求帮助非常困难，人们不去做是因为感到尴尬，不想显得愚蠢，不想暴露弱点。但寻求帮助恰恰是能让你成功呈指数级增长的一件事。

Yeah. Asking for help is so hard and people don't do it because they feel embarrassed, they don't want to look stupid, they don't want to show weakness. But asking for help is the one thing that will help you exponentially increase your success.

是的。是的。完全正确。有时候是一些小事，人们甚至都不会问，比如我最近在巡演时乘坐达美航空，一位空乘人员在服务结束准备降落时，给我写了一封非常漂亮的便条，放在我旁边，因为我在飞行中睡着了。醒来后我读了它，他们总是会给你这些，我想是达美航空的小翅膀徽章之类的东西放在上面。

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And sometimes it's small things where like people don't even ask, like I had this, so I was on tour recently and I was flying Delta and one of the air stewards at the end of her service when we were about to land, she wrote me this really beautiful note and had left it near me because I'd fallen asleep on the flight. And so when I woke up, I read it and they always give you these, I think it's these little wings from Delta or something like that on top of it.

我读了便条，内容真的非常非常贴心。我走出去时对她说，这就像一封完整的信，是一封真正的信件，非常非常温暖。我在出去时问她，哦，嘿，你们今晚在这里吗？在城里吗？她说，是的。

And so I read it and it was really, really sweet. And I said to her when I was walking out, it was like a full note, like it was a real letter and it was very, very sweet. And I just asked her on the way out, I was like, oh, hey, like are you guys in here? Are you in town tonight? She's like, yeah.

我说，那不如来看我的演出吧？结果她真的来了，她度过了很棒的夜晚，太美妙了。那是一个我们有很多年轻粉丝的城市。我试图回忆是哪个城镇，但记不清了，但就是那种时刻，一封非常体贴的信真的打动了我，虽然不是我指导她，但让我想要回报。所以我发现，有时候用非常美好和周到的方式表达你所做的事情，对于像你这样给出很好建议的导师，可以接着说，Kim，你知道你告诉我这么做，我做了然后发生了这样的事。

I was like, well, why don't you come to my show? And she ended up coming to the show, she had a great night, like it was amazing. It was a town that we had a big junior presence in. I'm trying to remember what town it was, but what city it was, but it was just one of those moments where like, it was just a really thoughtful letter that really affected me and made, I didn't mentor her but made me want to reciprocate. And so I found that sometimes expressing something really beautifully and thoughtfully about what you're doing and with a mentor like you who's giving great advice, follow that up with saying, Kim, you know you told me to do this, I did this and this is what happened.

Kim，你知道你告诉我这么做，我联系了这个人，因为导师需要知道你在付诸实践。我觉得导师会感到疲惫，当他们觉得在给你时间、建议和见解，但你却没有行动。

Kim, you know you told me to do this, I reached out to this person because the mentor needs to know that you're putting into practice. I think mentors get exhausted when they feel they're giving you time, they're giving you advice, they're giving you insight but you're not moving.

哦是的，我不会指导你很久的。

Oh yeah, I wouldn't mentor you very long.

就是这样。不，跟我说说这个

There you go. Talk No, to me about that

我觉得，你知道，我是来给出好建议的，我没有很多时间。如果你不采纳，那就找别的导师吧。是的，我不适合做你的导师。但说实话，那是你的问题，不是我的问题。

think, you know, I'm here to give great advice, I don't have a lot of time. If you're not going to take it, find a different mentor. Yeah. I'm not the mentor for you. But to be honest, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

我在这里是为了帮助你提升到新的高度。我想把我的经验传授给其他人，我的意思是，人们为我付出了宝贵的时间，我对此非常感激。我觉得自己很幸运，因为这份馈赠如此珍贵，我想要回馈并传递这份善意。所以，即使是通过这本书，因为我没时间指导所有我想指导的人，但我有时间写下我所学到的东西，这样其他人就不必再犯同样的错误。

I'm here to help take you to the next level. And I want to be able to give my experience to someone else that I mean, people have been so grateful with their time for me. And I feel so lucky because it's been such a gift that I want to give that and pay that forward. And so, I mean, even with the book, because I don't have enough time to mentor as many people as I would like to, I do have the time to write down what I've learned so other people don't have to make the same mistakes.

嗯，我认为书籍就是这种形式的导师。确实如此。我觉得这是一个非常非常好的观点，在我的人生中，一些最好的导师其实就是书籍。

Well I think books are mentorship for that They are. I think that's a great, great point that I feel in my life some of my best mentors have been books.

是的，我也是。

Yeah, me too.

我真心相信这一点。

I really believe that.

哦，天哪。

Oh my gosh.

而且我认为这本书将成为那些正在犯错、渴望成功的人的绝佳导师，他们会想，我希望得到一位真正成功的企业家的指导，这本书就是这样的存在。

And I think this book's gonna be a great mentor for people who are making mistakes, who wanna be successful and they're like, I wanna be coached by, you know, a really successful entrepreneur, book is that.

确实如此。

It is.

而且我认为我们低估了一本书能带来的价值。

And I think we undervalue and underestimate the value you can get from a book.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

我感觉自己像是受到了我最喜欢的一些企业家的指导，他们要么在我有机会见面之前就去世了，要么是通过书籍与我建立联系的人。

I feel like I've been mentored by some of my favorite entrepreneurs who either died before I had the opportunity to meet them or are people that I haven't connected with through books.

嗯，尤其是当你年轻的时候。我刚开始的时候，完全不知道自己在做什么。所以我只是阅读那些伟大的老经营者的书，然后实际执行他们所说的。比如杰克·韦尔奇，我是说通用电气的。这是三十年前的事了。

Well, and especially if you're young. When I started, I had no idea what I was doing. So I would just read books of old great operators and actually execute what they said. Like Jack Welch, I mean, was GE. This is thirty years ago.

你只是读着书，然后想，好吧，我就照这个人说的做。他肯定知道，对吧？所以我希望能够分享这些经验，这样你就可以说，好吧，我知道在有毒的关系中，在没有合适的伴侣时该怎么做。就像，我会给你一些建议，帮你摆脱我曾经陷入的困境，我希望当时有人能告诉我，对吧？

You're just reading books and be like, Okay, I'll just do what this guy says. I mean, he must know, right? And so my hope is that to be able to share those experiences so you can say, Okay, I know what to do when I'm in a toxic relationship, when I don't have the right partner. Like, I'm going to give you tips to get out of situations that I was in that I wish someone would have told me, right?

是啊，是啊。天啊，

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh,

请帮帮我，Kim。我就说，好吧，这是行动指南。我把行动指南给你。先读这10条，然后回来告诉我你是否需要更多。

please help me, Kim. I'm like, okay, here's playbook. I'm giving you the playbook. Read these 10 and then come back and tell me if you need more.

是的。当你说不要试图独自完成所有事情时，找到导师很重要，但有时找到商业伙伴也很重要，或者像联合创始人这样的合作伙伴。你会说你在寻找商业伙伴或联合创始人时看重什么？

Yeah. What are you, when you say don't try to do everything alone, finding a mentor is important, but then also finding a business partner is important sometimes, or like co founders and connecting. What would you say you look for in a business partner or a co founder?

我学到了你需要四个支柱。就像房子需要四面墙才能站立一样，我认为每个我认识的成功人士都需要四个重要支柱。第一个是导师。第二个是家人和朋友，支持你的家人和朋友。对吧？

I've learned there are four pillars that you need. Just as a house has four walls to stand, I think there's four great pillars that every successful person that I know needs. And one is a mentor. Two is family and friends, supportive family and friends. Right?

第三个是团队。无论你是独立创业者还是顾问，或者是你网络中的人。第四个是同行。

Three is the team. It doesn't matter if you're a solo entrepreneur. It could be a consultant. It could be someone in your network. And number four is peers.

那些真正在日常中并能理解你的人。因为我的家人无法理解我每天经历的考验，但同行在同一领域、同一行业，甚至同一办公室的人能理解你正在经历什么。所以如果你能找到这些核心原则，那就是改变游戏规则的关键。一旦我开始为我建立这些人际支柱，我的业务就起飞了。

People that are actually in the day to day and can relate. Because my family can't relate to the trials that I go through every day but appear in the same category, in the same business, even in the same office. They can relate to what you're going through. So if you can find these core tenets, game changer. And so once I started putting these people pillars into place for me, my business took off.

但这需要腾出空间，对吧？就是说，我太忙了，我没时间。我听过这种说法。我没时间做这个，Kim。我太忙了，我太忙了。

But it's making space, right? It's saying, I'm too busy, I don't have time. I've heard it. I don't have time to do this Kim. I'm too busy, I'm too busy.

嗯，我也很忙。

Well, I'm busy too.

是的。

Yeah.

但我们如何优先考虑人，因为只有这样我们才能实现指数级增长。

But how do we prioritize people because that is how we will be able to grow exponentially.

是的，是的。我昨天其实对某人说过，我见过成功人士犯的一个错误是，他们唯一的朋友要么是花钱雇来的人，要么是从一开始就在身边的人。这两者都很重要。一个是你的团队，一个是你的老同学。但同龄人这部分太重要了，因为只有他们才能真正理解你当前的痛苦。

Yeah, yeah. I was actually saying to someone yesterday that one of the mistakes I've seen successful people make is the only friends they have are people they pay or people that have been there from day one. And those are both important parts. One's your team and one's your old school friends. But the peers part is so important because that's the only person that understands your current pain.

所以那些你过去的朋友，他们理解你的历程，我最好的朋友仍然是二十年前就认识的那些人。这份情谊会一直存在。我有一个我爱的团队，我与他们有着非常非常重要的关系，我真的很珍惜并投入其中。但唯一能真正理解我人生现状的人是我的同龄人。是的。

So your person that you were friends with back in the day, they understand your journey and my best friends are still my best friends from people I was friends with twenty years ago. That will always be there. I have a team that I love, I have great relationships with very, very important to me, I really value and invest in. But the only person who can truly understand where I'm at in life is my peer. Yeah.

那些在同一水平做同样事情的人。真正有趣的是，这些人最终往往成了你的竞争对手，而不是真正的合作者。对吧。我在读鲍勃·艾格的书，他谈到在某个时间点，我可能记错几个名字，但原则是对的。鲍勃·艾格说，曾经有一段时间，史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格、乔治·卢卡斯和他们那个时代的其他几位著名导演会互相预映他们的电影。

Who's doing the same thing at the same level. And what's really interesting is those are the people you end up competing with rather than actually collaborating with. Right. And I was reading Bob Iger's book and he was talking about how at one point in time, and I may get a couple of the names wrong, but the principal was there. Bob Iger was saying that at one point, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, and a couple of other famous directors of their time used to preview their movies to each other.

太喜欢这个了。

Love that.

所以他们实际上会走进一个小房间，一个放映室，观看电影并征求反馈。

So they would actually get into a little room, a theater room, watch the movie and ask for feedback.

是的，这是有史以来最好的建议。

Yeah, it's the best advice ever.

有史以来，但那是因为他们如此自信，认为自己的风格如此与众不同，以至于他们不觉得自己在竞争。这说得通吗？就像我们今天不敢这样做的原因是你觉得有人会偷走你的想法。他们相信这些人非常有创造力，没有人需要偷窃想法，因为房间里的每个人都是天才。所以他们实际上信任并尊重彼此的想法。

Ever but that's because they were so confident that their style was so different that they didn't feel like they were competing. Does that make sense? Like the reason why we're scared to do that today is you feel like someone will steal your idea. They trusted that these people were so creative and no one would need to steal the idea because everyone was a genius in that room. And so they actually trusted and respected each other's ideas.

我太喜欢这个观点了。我真的很喜欢。而且我认为如果你能找到这样的同行，那会有天壤之别，因为只有正在经历同样事情的人才能真正理解你的处境，他们能给你很好的建议。

I love that. I love that. And I think if you can find those peers that makes such a difference because no one can relate to what you're going through except for the people going through, and they can give you great advice.

在我们进入下一个话题之前，先来听听我们赞助商的消息。

Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

没有什么比沉浸在奢华之中更惬意的了。在washablesofas.com，您会发现Anabay沙发，它以实惠的价格将极致舒适与设计完美结合。更棒的是，这是唯一一款从上到下完全可机洗的沙发，起价仅699美元。防污性能面料沙发套和云朵般蓬松的羽绒被套可以直接放入洗衣机清洗。非常适合有孩子、宠物的人，或者任何喜欢易于清洁、一尘不染沙发的人。

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Anabay sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom, starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like framed duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa.

采用模块化设计和可更换沙发套，您可以定制沙发以适应任何空间和风格。无论您需要单椅、双人沙发还是豪华大转角沙发，Anabay都能满足您的需求。访问washablesofas.com升级您的家居。现在，全场商品最高可享6折优惠，并提供30天退款保证。立即前往washablesofas.com选购。

With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anabay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now, you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a thirty day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

添加一个

Add a

小哦。给你的生活。优惠可能随时变更，

little Oh. To your life. Offers are subject to change,

且可能适用特定限制。

and certain restrictions may apply.

你是否曾带着你的魔法来到华特迪士尼世界，就像，嘿，我们是来玩的？你是否向克里奥尔公主行过皇冠礼，或是正式地变得古灵精怪？像个大佬一样挺身而出拯救世界？或是体验生命之树下的生活？你做过吗？

Have you ever brought your magic to Walt Disney World like, hey, we came to play? Did you tip your tiara to a creole princess or get goofy officially? Step up like a boss and save the day? Or see what life's like under the tree of life? Did you?

如果你能。你会吗？当我们到来时，那是真正的魔法，因为我们是来玩的。在华特迪士尼世界度假区带来魔法。

If you could. Would you? When we come through, it's true magic because we came to play. Bring the magic at Walt Disney World Resort.

这里是Matt Rogers和Bowen Yang，来自Las Culturistas，与Matt Rogers和Bowen Yang一起。JBL Tour Pro 3耳机是

This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro three earbuds are

为那些不遵循标准的人准备的。

for those who don't conform to the standard.

是的。我的意思是，如果你想体验一些触屏技术，智能充电盒怎么样，清晰音质？这些可不是标准配置。宝贝，你只有在JBL Tour Pro 3上才能得到它们。

Yeah. I mean, if you wanna get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, clear sound? These are not standard things. You're only gonna get them with the JBL Tour Pro three, baby.

而且我热爱JBL的声音表现。这些耳塞充满了创新，因为你无法通过追随他人而脱颖而出。

And I love the sound of JBL and goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others.

触屏智能充电盒可实现一键控制、即时EQ定制、真正自适应降噪，以及独一无二的音频发射器，可即插即用

Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one of a kind audio transmitter, which can plug

兼容从游戏主机到机上娱乐系统的所有设备。该音频发射器还支持JBL Spatial 360音效，能将任何音频转化为360度沉浸式体验。

and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. The audio transmitter also allows for JBL Spatial three sixty sound that takes any audio and turns it into a three sixty immersive experience.

你还能要求什么呢？领先者从不追随。请访问jbl.com购买一套。

What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair at jbl.com.

现在回到我们的节目内容。

And back to our episode.

就像，这种建议是，哦，我刚刚经历过那种情况。让我告诉你在招聘场景、合伙人场景中该怎么做。我不知道你是否应该拥有合伙人。我的意思是，这是个基于个人价值观的问题。但有人能与你共同应对高潮低谷，在幕后协作，对吧？

Like, that advice is, oh, I've just been in that situation. Let me tell you what to do In a hiring situation, in a partner situation. So I don't know if you should have a partner or not. I mean, that's a personal values based question. But having other people to collaborate on the highs and lows and kind of behind the scenes, right?

因为你的团队——如果出现问题，你不能向团队透露你会对同行说的某些事情。作为领导者你只能告诉他们一部分真相，然后才能对同行说：天啊，外面简直疯了。

Because your team, can't if things go wrong, you can't tell your team some of the things you would tell a peer. Need to you're gonna tell them one thing as a leader. Then you can tell your peers like, Oh my gosh, it's crazy out there.

你谈到的一个错误就是这种有毒内部圈子的观念。比如你必须摆脱这个，所以你说其中一个错误就是在你的核心圈子里维持有毒关系。我想问你，你对与家人一起创业有什么看法？

One mistakes you talk about is this idea of like having a toxic inner circle. Like you gotta get rid of that and so you say that one of the mistakes is keeping toxic relationships in your inner circle. I wanted to ask you, what's your take on starting a business with a family member?

这很难。但我认为只要角色和职责非常明确，任何事情都可以成功。对吧？你知道你做什么，我知道我做什么。我是说，想想你和罗迪。

It's hard. But I think anything could work as long as you have very clear roles and responsibilities. Right? You know what you do, I know what I do. I mean, think about you and Roddy.

很明显，夫妻关系，如果每个人都清楚自己的优势，我确实见过这种模式运作得很好。问题在于如果双方都想做对方想做的事，并且都认为自己能做得更好，那就行不通了。

Obviously, husband, wife, I actually seen it work really well if everyone knows their strength. The problem it doesn't work well is if you want to do what I want to do and you think you could do it better.

是的。而且

Yeah. And

你就会觉得，好吧，这永远行不通。对吧？是的。你需要相信你会负责这个，我会负责那个。职责分工，这是第一位的。

you're like, okay, this is never going to work out. Right? Yeah. You need to trust that you will be in charge of this, I will be in charge of this. And division of responsibilities, like, that's number one.

所以实际上，我喜欢家族企业，因为我喜欢传承，我的意思是，在最好的情况下，我的孩子们会和我一起工作，对吧？那将会是

So actually, I love family businesses because I like legacy and I like I mean, in the best case scenario, my children will work with me, so Right? I That would be like the joy of

那会很温馨的。是的。那将会

That would be so cute. Yeah. It would

太可爱了，对吧？他们才五岁。所以我不确定，我们还有些时间。

be so cute. Right? They're five. So I don't know. We've got some time.

我想提前规划。

I'd like to get ahead.

但是，没错。对我来说，最终的礼物是能留下一些东西给我的孩子们。不过，重要的是不要强加你认为应该怎么做。你必须真正信任对方。合伙关系很难。

But, yes. But that would be the ultimate gift for me is to have something that I could leave to my children. However, it's really important to, not impose what you think should be done. You really have to have trust. Partnership is hard.

非常难。我觉得合伙关系真的很难。但要相信对方总会为你的最大利益行事，他们总会秉持相同的价值观。我认为价值观非常重要，因为这样你始终知道彼此的立场，无论是否有合伙关系。但我确实相信一起做事会更有趣。

So hard. Think partnerships are really hard. But trusting that the other person will always act in your best interest, that they always will do what you know, have the same values. I think values are really important because you know where you're coming from all the time and whether you have a partnership or not. But I do believe it's so much more fun to do it together.

是啊，对吧？完全同意。

Yeah. Right? Absolutely.

就像我当初独自在厨房餐桌起步时，太孤独了。创业真的很孤独。现在我已经到了另一个阶段，再也不想独自奋斗。我想和团队一起，分享喜悦、乐趣、挑战和失望。这样你就不会孤单，对吧？

Like having started my kitchen table alone, it's so lonely. Entrepreneurship is so lonely. I'm now at the other side where I never want to do it alone. I want to do it with a team where you can share the joy and the fun and the challenges and the disappointments. Like you're just not alone, right?

是的。我有很多朋友曾与朋友或家人一起创业，但后来关系变得有毒或困难。你有没有找到什么好的指导或见解，关于如何在关系恶化后以最健康的方式脱离这种关系？

Yeah. I've had a lot of friends who've like built a business with a friend or a family member and then it's gone toxic or difficult. Have you found any great mentorship or insight on how to disconnect from that relationship once it's gone bad? That's in the healthiest way possible.

是的。我的意思是，长期以来我经历过很多有毒的关系，有时候你甚至意识不到，因为它们一开始并不有毒，对吧？它们从朋友开始，然后随着时间的推移变得非常糟糕。然后你陷入这种关系中，不知道如何脱身。但我每年都会做的是，虔诚地审核我的核心圈子。

Yes. I mean, I've had a lot of toxic relationships over time and sometimes you don't even know because they don't start toxic, right? They start as friends and then over time they go really badly. And then you're in this relationship and you don't know how to get out. But what I look to do is really annually, I audit my inner circle religiously.

跟我们说说这个。

Tell us about that.

对吧？所以每年我都会审视我生意中所有的人，我个人生活中所有与我共度时光的人。如果他们能给我能量、激励我、鼓励我实现梦想，我就打个加号。非常简单。这是一个非常简单的练习。

Right? So every year I look at all the people in my business, all the people in my personal life that I'm spending time with. And if they energize and inspire me and encourage me to achieve my dreams, I put a plus. Very simple. This is a very simple exercise.

如果他们消极、挑剔，告诉我为什么行不通，我就打个减号，然后主动把他们审核出去。不，这听起来可能很刻薄。我知道，人们会说，那我的家人呢？我明白。我懂。

If they are negative, critical, tell me why it's not going to work, I put a minus and then I actively audit them out. No, it seems mean. Know, people are like, What about my family? I know. I get it.

但如果你想成就伟大的事情，身边有有毒的人是做不到的。他们会拖累你。

But if you want to achieve great things, you will not be able to do it with toxic people around you. They will drag you down.

是的，太对了。这很难，因为人们会说，我怎么能切断我的家人？我怎么能离开和我一起生活的人？在某种意义上。

Yeah, it's so true. And it's hard because people go, how do I cut out my family? How do I leave the people that I live with? In one sense.

是的，没错，这很难。

Yeah, yes, it's hard.

这很难。

It's hard.

但这也要讲究平衡，对吧？所以我理解，我的意思是那是一种我无法帮忙的内心挣扎。但我的建议是关于平衡的。如果你处于无法离开父母的处境——显然是这样——但你可以尽量减少与他们相处的时间，对吗？

But it's also about balance, right? So I understand, I mean that's an internal struggle that I can't help with. But how do you my advice is about balance. So if you are in a situation where you can't leave your parents, obviously, but you can minimize the time that you're spending with them. Right?

因为他们灌输到你脑海里的那些想法，你知道，一旦你离开——这就像我当年处于一段非常有害的关系时发生的情况——你会不断回想。它会消耗你，对吧？然后渗透到你生活的每个部分：你的事业、你的个人生活。最终你必须将其审计剔除，才能继续前进，才能成长。这听起来很残酷，但说实话，绝对是改变游戏规则的做法。

Because those thoughts that they're putting in your head, you know, once you leave and this is what happened to me when I was in a very toxic relationship you think about it. It consumes you, right? And then it seeps into every part of your life your business part, your personal life. And you have to eventually audit it out in order to be able to move forward, in order to grow. And it seems very harsh, but honestly, game changer.

跟我谈谈你生活中有毒关系与金钱之间的联系。这两者是如何产生关联的？

Talk to me about the connection between toxic relationships in your life and money. How did the two connect?

如果你身处有毒的关系中，很可能你不会拥有很多财富。

If you have toxic relationships, likely you're not gonna have a lot of money.

是的。为什么？谈谈这种关联，以及你是如何看到它显现的。

Yeah. Why? How how talk to me about that connection and how you've seen it transpire.

我认为，经历过一些有毒的关系后，我发现那些人并不会为你的最大利益着想。如果你想要活出最高最好的用途、发挥最大潜力，你就不能承受那些消耗你能量的人，因为你需要那些能量来创造、构思、创新和建设。所以，拖累你的压力越多，你成功的可能性就越小，不幸的是。我的意思是，这就是事实，对吧？因此，我会非常审慎地选择与谁共度时光。

I think that having been in some toxic relationships, they're not looking out for your best interest. And if you want to live to your highest and best use and your greatest potential, you can't afford to have people that are draining your energy because you need that in order to create and ideate and innovate and build. So the more you have pressures that are dragging you down, the less likely you will be to be successful, unfortunately. Mean, it's just truth, right? And so, I really look hard at who I spend time with.

并且让自己身边围绕着爱我的人、希望看到我最好的一面、相信我的人，这并不意味着他们不能挑战我，这很棒。但我不想和那些会告诉我为什么我的梦想行不通的人在一起。

And surrounding myself with people that love me, want to see the best for me, believe in me, it doesn't mean they can't challenge me, which is great. But I don't wanna be with someone that's gonna tell me why my dreams aren't gonna work.

是的。

Yeah.

就像，那行不通，因为可能性，我的意思是，你必须对自己的梦想如此自信，以至于让别人一直在你耳边说三道四，太糟糕了。对吧？

Like, that's not gonna work because likelihood, I mean, you have to be so confident in your dreams that having other people talk in your ear all the time, terrible. Right?

是的，是的。除非他们有建设性的想法，建设性的爱。有洞察力，是的，没有爱的建议是没用的。我认为你说得很对。我觉得，我喜欢你说的，这有两面性。

Yeah, yeah. Unless they have constructive thought Constructive love. Insight, yeah, with love it doesn't work. And I think that's spot on. Think, I love what you said, there's two sides to it.

一方面是你也必须限制与他们相处的时间。这是自主权，因为我们不能把自己的不成功归咎于周围的人，否则我们就没有为自己能做出的改变承担责任和自主权。我总是告诉人们，生活中每有一个消极的人，就要找到三个积极的人，因为这样就有了比例。现在你生活中25%的时间与消极的人相处，但75%的时间被积极的能量包围。你今天就可以做到这一点。

The one side is you've got to limit your time with them as well. It's agency because we can't blame our lack of success on the people around us because then we're not taking responsibility and agency for the change we can make. And I always say to people for every one negative person in your life, find three positive people because you have the percentage. Now 25% of your life is spent with negative people but 75% of your life is surrounded by positive energy. And you can do that today.

现在到处都是俱乐部、活动和社区，就像创业协会一样遍地开花，因为所有创业者都在寻找社群，因为他们中99%的人没有得到家人的支持。

There's so many clubs and events and communities all around just dotted everywhere like entrepreneurial societies just popping up everywhere because all entrepreneurs are looking for community because 99% of them didn't have family support.

没错。

Right.

因为他们有过疯狂的想法，或者他们冒了风险，无论是什么原因。所以你并不孤单。在这个社区里，还会有其他像你一样的人也在寻找这一点。

Because they had a crazy idea or they took a risk or whatever it may have been. So you're not alone. There's going to be other people like you in the community who are looking for that as well.

没错。主动出击，积极主动，对吧？这又回到了寻求帮助、展现脆弱并承认自己并非无所不知。谁愿意和一个无所不知的人在一起呢，对吧？通常那些有毒的人是在将他们自身的限制性信念强加给你。

Right. And reaching out and being proactive, right? And it goes back to asking for help and being vulnerable and saying you don't know everything. Like who wants to be with someone that knows everything, right? And usually the toxic people are self imposing their limiting beliefs on you.

他们告诉你这行不通。你做不到，因为那是他们的想法，而不是你的。所以你要确保，这是他们的想法还是我的想法？如果他们不断告诉你他们的想法，这会让你头脑中充满噪音，很难分辨，对吧？

They're telling you it's not going to work. You can't do it because that's what they think, not what you think. And so it's trying to make sure that is this what they think or is it I think? And it's hard if they keep telling you what they think, it becomes noisy in your head, right?

是的，而且这是他们的想法，因为有人这样告诉过他们。

Yeah, and it's what they think because someone told them that.

没错，所以你必须打破这种模式。

Right, so you gotta stop the pattern.

完全正确，你必须为你的家庭打破这种模式，

Exactly, you gotta stop the pattern for your family,

为你的，是的，绝对，孩子们，

for your Yes, absolutely, children,

确实如此。而且人们也会忘记，他们试图——我记得和我妈妈有过这样的对话，因为她16岁时不得不离开自己的国家搬到了英国。当我28岁要搬去美国时，她说：天啊，我简直不敢相信你要完全搬到另一个国家，你知道的，还有所有那些事情。我就说：妈，你16岁的时候就做到了。天哪

absolutely. And people forget too, they try and, I you remember having this conversation with my mom because she left, she had to leave her country when she was 16 years old and moved to England. And when I was moving to America at 28, she was like, oh my God, I can't believe like you're moving like full on like to another country and you know, all the rest of it. I was like, mom, you did it when you were 16. Gosh,

妈妈真棒

go mom.

你16岁的时候就做到了。当我22岁要出家当和尚时，她也是同样的反应：你要去印度，要离开家，你知道的。我就说：妈，你16岁就搬过家了

You did it when you were 16. And she did the same when I was becoming a monk at 22, she was like, you're going to India and you're gonna be away and like, you know, and I was like, mom, you moved when you were 16.

没错

Right.

搬到一个没有教育、没有钱的国家，然后你自己想办法解决了，你知道的。看到妈妈这种保护欲真的很奇妙——我知道这是出于爱，但是妈，你做的事情比我正在做的要困难得多

Like to a country with no education, no money and you figured it out like, you know, and it was so amazing to see that like mom's protective Like I know it came from a place of love, but it was like, but mom you did something way harder than I'm doing.

是的，她是在试图保护你。她想要

Yes, she's trying to protect you. She's trying to

保护我。这是母爱，但真的很耐人寻味，因为这与她曾经不得不这样做的事实相矛盾。没错。她不得不离开父母为他们建立生活，你知道的，还有所有那些事情，要能够养家糊口，但我们却忘记了这一点。所以有时候，尽管我们过着非常艰难挑战的生活，我们却把不安全感传递给了我们的孩子

protect me. It's mom's love but it's really interesting because it's counterintuitive to the fact that she had to do it. Right. She had to leave her parents to build a life for them and you know, all the rest of it and be able to provide for her family but we forget that. So sometimes we pass down, even though we lived a really difficult challenging life, we pass down insecurity to our kids.

对，哦

Right, oh

是的，不是传递自由。是的。这真是件非常有趣的事。

yeah, Not passing down freedom. Yeah. Which is a really fascinating thing.

这很有趣，对吧？

It's interesting, right?

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what mean?

是的，而你，那是因为你曾经

Yeah, and you're, it's because you were

传递了安全感，因为你没有它，却没有意识到正是同样的东西给了你能力和强度去变得坚韧。就像你说的，人们必须有韧性和毅力，但韧性和毅力不是通过一切顺遂获得的。你通过被击倒、经历艰难困苦来获得韧性和毅力，就像你知道的，那才是锻炼肌肉的方式。所以我们试图让所有人的一切都变得轻松，这很有趣。

passed out security because you didn't have it, not realizing that it was the same thing that gave you the capacity and the intensity to become a resilient. Like when you said people got to have resilience and grit, you don't get resilience and grit by everything going your way. You get resilience and grit by being knocked down, things being hard and difficult like, you know, that's what it takes to build muscle. So it's funny how we try and make everything easy for everyone else.

即使对我自己的孩子也是如此，确保，我的意思是，他们的生活显然和我成长的环境不同。我的意思是，我们那时还要努力支付账单、保证供暖。你知道，他们显然没有同样的挑战，但我们如何向他们灌输同样的职业道德？这就是我一直在思考的问题。我的意思是，这就像是我内心的挣扎。

Even with my own children, making sure that, I mean, their life obviously is not the same life I grew up. I mean, we're like trying to pay the bills and go have heat. You know, they obviously don't have the same challenges but how do we instill the same work ethic in them? That's what I'm thinking all the time. I mean, it's just like a struggle in my own mind.

比如，我需要做什么？在我们家里，一切都在思考如何培养。还有热情，对吧？我们希望他们对所做的事情和想要创造的东西充满热情。所以我们必须非常谨慎，避免把我们成长的方式投射到他们身上

Like, what do I need to do? Like, everything in our family is just looking at how do we instill. And passion, right? Like, we want them to have passion about what they do and what they want to create. So we had to be very thoughtful and mindful about not self projecting how we grew up

确实。Kim，你一生中招聘过多少人？

definitely. Onto Kim, how many people have you hired in your lifetime?

哦，几千人。是的。几千。几千。几千，没错。

Oh, thousands. Yeah. Thousands. Thousands. Thousands, yes.

我上一家运营的公司有超过一千名员工。我是说，几千人。

Last company I ran had over a thousand employees. I mean, thousands.

其中有多少是你亲自面试、查看简历并深入了解的？

And how many of them did you personally interview, look at resumes and actually get that deeply with?

在二十多年里，可能至少有500多人，也许更多。哇。

I mean over twenty years, probably at least over 500, maybe more. Wow.

当你管理团队时，你是如何组建团队的？你个人最多领导和管理多少人？你找到最佳人数了吗？

When you manage people, how did you set up your teams? Like how many people maximum do you personally lead and manage? Did you find a sweet spot?

是的，通常超过八个就变得很困难了。我的意思是，如果你在全球有一千人，超过八个就开始变得非常难以管理。

Yeah, usually anything over eight was, I mean, if you have a thousand people globally, anything over eight starts to get very difficult.

为什么你觉得八个是可控的？

Why did you find eight manageable?

我不知道，只是因为这样我至少还能和他们进行一对一交流，能花时间相处，还能保持个人联系，确保他们了解愿景，知道我在乎他们。通常是因为我们在世界各地都有办公室，所以这八个人实际上是分散的。比如我在特拉维夫有一个国家经理，在澳大利亚有一个，具体取决于职能。但八个对我来说是最佳状态。我觉得有些人能管理更多，但要真正实现年收入十亿美元的规模，我觉得这个数字刚刚好。

I don't know, just because I could at least have one on ones with them, I could spend time with them, I could still have the personal connection to make sure that they knew the vision, they knew I cared. And usually it was because we had offices all around the world, so usually those eight were actually distributed. So I had a country manager in Tel Aviv, one in Australia, so it depended on what the function was. But eight was the sweet spot for me. I think some people can manage a lot more, but in order to really scale like a billion dollars on an annual basis, that was where I found, I was like perfect.

哇，是的，这很有道理。我觉得很合理。而且你想想一周只有七天，工作日只有五天。

Wow, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's fair. And you think about you only have seven days a week and you only have five work days.

没错。

Right.

如果你每天要管理超过一个人

If you're managing more than one person a day

那就非常困难了。

It's very hard.

这确实很难。是的。所以八个人，你知道，在那个阶段就像什么？

It gets hard. Yeah. And so eight is, you know, at that like what?

可能是上限，对吧？有些人会说六个人可能是最好的。挑战在于当你从零开始建立团队时，每个人都想直接向你汇报。所以当存在其他因素时，这也会变得情绪化，这些因素并不像你只是简单地设定六个人那样容易处理。就像，你必须根据情况灵活应对，对吧？

Probably the max, right? Some people would say like six is probably the best. The challenge is when you build from the ground up, everyone wants to report to you. So it becomes emotional too when there's other factors that aren't As you're just black and That aren't as easy as, Okay, it's six and we're just going to do that. It's like, well, you have to be agile with the circumstance, right?

这会产生影响，而且你想保持人们的积极性。特别是，我的意思是，收购了很多公司，当你收购公司时，他们不想被置于多层管理之下。企业发展的每个阶段都有不同的挑战。

It makes a difference and you want to keep people motivated. And especially, I mean, acquired a lot of companies and when you acquire companies, they don't want to be put under layers of people. There's different challenges with every phase of a business.

所以我问你这个问题的原因是因为我实际上有四份简历在这里。

So the reason I asked you that is because I actually have four resumes here.

你要招聘人吗？

Are you gonna hire someone?

我想让你告诉我

And I want you to tell me

好的。

Okay.

我们应该招聘什么样的人。

Who we should be hiring.

好的，太棒了，太棒了。

Okay, love it, love it.

所以我

So I'm

把这些交给你，你可以花点时间浏览一下。这些都是不同职位的简历。好的。一份是创意总监，一份是产品经理，一份是营销专员，一份是运营经理。它们不是竞争关系。

gonna hand you these, you can take a second and look through the them. These are all for different roles. Okay. And one's for a creative director, one's a product manager, one's a marketing specialist, one's an operations manager. They're not competing.

好的。但我希望你能仔细看看，告诉我哪些地方好，哪些地方不好，因为我们从听众那里听到很多反馈说，天啊，我投了400家公司，感觉自己的简历就像堆在永远不会被查看的堆里，我不知道如何脱颖而出。

Okay. But I want you to be able to look through them and tell me what you think is good and bad because a lot of what we heard from our audience was that, gee I'm applying to 400 companies and I feel like I'm ending up on a stack that never gets looked I don't know how to stand out.

我可能会告诉你方法。

I might tell you how.

告诉我们哪些地方突出，哪些地方不突出。

Tell us what's standing out and what's not standing out.

假设我在LinkedIn上发布一个职位，会收到3000份简历。没有人、招聘经理或任何人都无法全部看完。如果你想脱颖而出并得到那份工作，你最好找到招聘经理，直接私信他们，给他们发封信。我不在乎你怎么联系到他们，但要告诉他们你多么渴望那份工作。因为大多数人只是投递简历，然后希望有人会给你打电话。

Say I post a job on LinkedIn, I get 3,000 resumes. Nobody or a hiring manager or anyone can go through them. If you want to stand out and you want that job, you better find the hiring manager, DM them, send them a letter. I don't care how you get ahold of them and tell them how bad you want that job. Because most people just send in their resume and hope someone's going call you.

没有人会给你打电话。如果你真的想要那份工作，你会找到招聘负责人并争取机会。所以要敢于与众不同。我觉得这和之前你说的那个开始创作内容的人的情况很像。是的。

Nobody's calling you. If you really want that job, you will find the hiring person and get in there. So dare to be different. I think that goes with the guy that you said earlier that just started making content. Yeah.

你必须积极主动。所以别再只依赖简历了。没有人会看完三千份——我真的不会看完3000份简历。我的意思是，也许某个地方的招聘经理会看，但不会的。

You have to be proactive. So forget just the resumes. No one's going look through three I literally will not look through 3,000 resumes. I mean, maybe the hiring manager will somewhere, but No.

这是事实。

It's the truth.

或者找到你认识的公司内部人员的联系方式。你知道，从统计数据来看，很多更多的招聘是通过推荐完成的。对吧？所以谁能推荐你进去？但我会看看简历，只是为了...嗯，是的。

Or find a contact of someone that you know that's in the company. You know, I think statistically so many more hires are done by referrals. Right? So who can refer you in? But I'm going look the resumes just so can Yeah.