马克·海曼：饱受脑雾、体重增加和精力不足困扰？很可能是隐性炎症在作祟！（这样做来逆转它）

这里是iHeart播客。成长过程中，我最喜欢返校的一件事就是挑选新文具。这不仅仅是关于笔记本或铅笔，而是关于重新开始、设定目标，并为成长做好准备的感觉。如今作为成年人，我依然热爱这种感觉。

This is an iHeart podcast. Growing up, one of my favorite things about going back to school was picking out a new school supplies. It wasn't just about notebooks or pencils. It was about starting fresh, setting intentions, and feeling prepared to grow. Now as an adult, I still love that feeling.

多亏亚马逊，让你生活中的学生们更容易获得同样的感受。无论是背包、科技配件还是课堂必需品，亚马逊一站式提供所有你需要的东西，以合理的价格强势开启新学年。为新学年做准备不仅仅是一张清单，更是建立信心、激发热情和目标感的机会。有了亚马逊，你能确保每个学生都准备好发挥他们的全部潜力。

And thanks to Amazon, it's easier than ever to help the students in your life feel the same. Whether it's backpack, tech accessories, or classroom essentials, Amazon has everything you need to start the school year strong, all in one place at prices that just make sense. Preparing for a new school year is more than a checklist. It's a chance to build confidence, excitement, and a sense of purpose. And with Amazon, you can make sure every student is ready to step into their full potential.

在亚马逊购买返校用品。本期《On Purpose》节目由Chase Sapphire Reserve赞助。我相信旅行是我们收到过最棒的礼物之一，而Chase Sapphire Reserve一直是我通往世界迷人目的地的大门。使用Chase Sapphire Reserve卡时，我在Chase Travel上的所有消费可获得8倍积分，甚至还能体验独一无二的音乐节和体育赛事等活动。更不用说这张卡还能让我进入全国精选机场的Sapphire Lounge by the club。

Shop back to school at Amazon. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel, and even access to one of a kind experiences, experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

使用Chase Sapphire Reserve，旅行更有回报。相信我。了解更多请访问chase.com/sapphirereserve。卡片由JPMorgan Chase Bank NA发行。FDIC。

Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA. FDIC.

需信用批准。条款适用。我们经常谈论身心灵的协调，但休息也起着重要作用。我一直在思考我的睡眠方式和睡眠用品。Avocado Green Mattress之所以吸引我，是因为他们的床垫采用认证有机乳胶、棉花和羊毛制成。

Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. We talk a lot about alignment, mind body, and spirit, but rest plays a big part in that too. I've been thinking more about how I sleep and what I sleep on. Avocado Green Mattress stood out to me because their mattresses are made with certified organic latex, cotton, and wool.

不含化学阻燃剂，没有石油基泡沫，只有干净透气的舒适感。他们最畅销的Avocado Green床垫有硬、中、软三种选择，让你找到最适合的感觉，醒来精神焕发。立即访问avocadogreenmattress.com，查看他们的床垫和床上用品促销。Avocado，梦想更好的睡眠。

No chemical flame retardants, no petroleum based foams, just clean, breathable comfort. Their best selling Avocado Green mattress comes in firm, medium, or plush, so you can find the feel that's right for you and wake up well. Head to avocadogreenmattress.com today and check out their mattress and bedding sale. Avocado, dream of better.

如今的新生儿在第一次呼吸之前，脐带血中平均含有287种毒素。

The average newborn baby today has 287 toxins in their umbilical cord blood before they take their first breath.

关于哪些食物最健康的持续辩论是Function Health联合创始人兼首席医疗官Mark Hyman医生的主题。炎症对你的身体有什么影响？

The ongoing debate over which foods are most healthy is the subject of Co founder and chief medical officer of Function Health, Doctor. Mark Hyman. What is inflammation doing to your body?

炎症是几乎所有慢性疾病和衰老本身的根本原因。内脏脂肪就像是炎症的温床，它们在你体内燃起火焰，导致心脏病发作、中风、癌症和糖尿病。哪些是高度引发炎症的食物？

Inflammation is at the root cause of almost all chronic illnesses and aging itself. That visceral fat is like a incubator for inflammation. They have fire in your belly. Causes heart attacks, strokes, cancer, diabetes. What are the highly inflammatory foods?

糖和淀粉。在美国，平均每人每天消耗一磅糖和面粉。

The sugar and starch. In America, average, you eat a pound of sugar and flour a day per person.

你认为美国医疗体系应重点关注哪些方面？

What do you think The US health care system needs to be focused on?

所有超加工食品——它们占我们饮食的60%。要知道，我们整个食品体系已转变为被大量消费的超加工食品，超市货架上73%的商品都是这类食品。

All the ultra processed food, which is 60% of our diet. You know, we have a whole food system that's turned into ultra processed food that we're consuming in massive amounts. It's 73 of what's on the grocery store shelves.

人们能知道自己有自身免疫性疾病的某些症状吗？

Can someone know that they have some symptoms of an autoimmune disease?

你可能会感到有点疲倦，或许有些便秘，皮肤干燥，指甲轻微开裂，情绪略显低落。

You might be a little bit tired. You might be a little constipated. You might blow dry skin. Your nails might crack a little bit. You might feel a little depressed.

可能还会性欲减退，体重微增。人们通常不认为这些是疾病征兆，但当这些症状

You might have lower sex drive, gain a little weight. People don't think of these as a disease, but when you add

同时出现时——如果现在有听众正想着'我感觉糟透了'，他们该怎么办？

them all together If someone's listening right now and they're thinking, I feel like crap, what do they do?

头号健康养生播客。

The number one health and wellness podcast.

杰·谢蒂。独一无二的杰·谢蒂。大家好，欢迎回到《On Purpose》——这个让你更快乐、更健康、更治愈的地方，在这里我们对话专家与思想领袖，他们向我们揭示如何真正改变人生。今天的嘉宾是你们的最爱，也是我们《On Purpose》团队的最爱。

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed where we talk to the experts and the thought leaders who illuminate to us how we can truly transform our lives. Today's guest is one of your favorites, one of our favorites here on On Purpose.

这位我私下也认识并深感荣幸的朋友，无论是在荧幕内外都备受瞩目——正是马克·海曼医生。马克·海曼医生是执业家庭医师，UltraWellness中心创始人，克利夫兰诊所功能医学中心创立者。作为功能医学领域的先驱，

Someone that I know personally and grateful to know off the screen as well as on the screen talking about none other than Doctor. Mark Hyman. Doctor. Mark Hyman is a practicing family physician, founder of the Ultra Wellness Center and founder of the Functional Medicine Center at the Cleveland Clinic. A leader in functional medicine, Doctor.

马克·海曼医生著有15本《纽约时报》畅销书，主持《Doctor's Farmacy》播客（若你尚未订阅务必关注）。他以'食物即药物'理念闻名，致力于通过营养与生活方式解决慢性病的根本成因。让我们再次欢迎马克·海曼医生来到《On Purpose》。马克，你每次来做客都让我们倍感荣幸。

Mark Hyman authored 15 New York Times bestsellers and hosts The Doctor. Hyman Show, a podcast that you should definitely subscribe to if you haven't already, and he is known for his food as medicine philosophy and work in addressing the root causes of chronic disease through nutrition and lifestyle. Please welcome back to On Purpose, Doctor. Mark Hyman. Mark, it's always great to have you on the show.

真高兴你回来了。

I'm so happy to have you back.

谢谢杰，回到这里真好。我超爱这个地方。

Thanks Jay, it's good to be here. Love this place.

马克，其实你能来我特别感激，因为我们原本就安排了节目录制。对。但后来我遗憾地从你团队得知...对...录制不得不取消，原因是

Mark, I'm actually really grateful you're here because we actually had a date scheduled for you to be on the show. Yeah. And then I sadly learned from your team Yeah. That it had to be canceled but it was for

因为我差点就死了。

because I almost white died.

对，情况确实非常严重。跟我们说说这次濒死经历吧。我认识你这么多年，你一直是长寿专家、健康专家，每次见面你都状态绝佳，容光焕发。你践行着自己倡导的理念，这点我很清楚。你影响着全球数百万人，结果自己却经历了生死关头。

Yeah, it was really extreme. Yeah. Talk to us about this near death experience because I've known you to be a longevity expert, health expert, you always look in great health, you always feel in great health every time I've been around you, your energy's radiant. You carry it with you, I know you practice what you preach, know it's not made up. You're an authentic person and the work that you do it impacts millions of people worldwide and then you have a near death experience.

来详细说说发生了什么。

Yeah. Walk me through what happened.

好的，谢谢杰的关心。我常开玩笑说我的生理年龄39岁，但背部年龄有139岁。32岁那年我住在爱达荷州一个伐木小镇，当时砍柴搬重物导致椎间盘破裂。

Yeah. You know, thanks Jay for asking. I joked that my biological age is 39 but my back age is 139. And when I was 32, I lived in Idaho in a logging town. I was chopping wood and carrying heavy wood and I ruptured a disc.

那次受伤造成了严重损害，导致右小腿永久性瘫痪。所以我跛行了三十多年，背部不断退化，发展成了严重的退行性椎间盘疾病。后来我接受了注射治疗——这是很常见的止痛疗法——但任何针剂注射都有感染风险。而在脊柱封闭空间里，感染迅速爆发了。

And it it basically caused massive damage and a permanent paralysis of my right calf. So I've limped for thirty odd years and my back's just degenerated and I developed, you know, a lot of degenerative disc disease. And so I felt a lot of back pain and I ended up having an injection, which is pretty common treatment to help relieve pain. And one of the risks of injections of any needle is infection. And in a closed space of the spine, it just took off.

短短几天内我就无法行走。一周后做了手术，医生打开又缝合了伤口——因为脓肿位置靠前无法处理。他们说无能为力，基本就是让我等死。

And very quickly, within a couple of days, I couldn't walk. Within a week, I had surgery. They opened me up. They closed me up because they couldn't reach the abscess, it was on the front. And they said, we can't do anything and basically left me to die.

只给了些抗生素说听天由命吧，还有这些止痛药...

Give me antibiotics and said, cross your fingers and here's some painkillers and

他们说这病无药可医。

They said there was no no cure.

后来我一位医生朋友打电话问我：'听说你病了？怎么回事？'我告诉他情况后，他说你需要第二诊疗意见。于是我联系了全球顶尖的神经外科中心——加州大学旧金山分校医学中心，他们让我立刻飞过去。

And and then a friend of mine was, a doctor called me, said, what's happened? I heard you're sick. And I told him, he said, you need a second opinion. So I got an opinion from the top neurosurgery center in the world in UCSF. And they said, get out here right away.

我乘坐医疗专机前往，一个月后再次接受手术，这次终于清除了脓肿。但在这期间我出现了败血症，持续高烧，体重比现在轻了25磅。我卧床不起，连坐着吃饭都做不到，只能躺着用大腿压着四片药。术后感谢上帝手术成功了，但那真是背水一战的手术。医生说再晚几天我可能就没命了。

So I took an ambulance jet and had surge another surgery a month later that would really relieve the abscess. But in that intervening period, I got septic, I was feverish, I lost 25 pounds from where I am now. I was in bed, I couldn't eat sitting up, I literally had to lay down with four pills under my leg. And after the surgery, thank God it worked, but it was a it was a Hail Mary surgery. And they said I was maybe a couple of days away from dying.

记得第二次手术麻醉前，我心想这可能是最后的清醒时刻了。术后我靠着助行器才能移动，站不起来，连刷牙擦屁股都要人帮忙，状况糟透了。但我慢慢依靠他人帮助，凭着决心运用所有知道的健康法则逐渐康复。虽然65岁不年轻了，

And I remember, you know, going under anesthesia on the day of the second surgery and I was like, this could be my last moment of consciousness. In the aftermath of that, you know, I had to I was on a walker, I couldn't stand up, I couldn't brush my own teeth, I couldn't wipe my own ass. Like I was like, it was bad. And I had to depend on other people but slowly, you know, just determined I clawed my way back to health and using every principle that I know of how to create health. And I'm 65, I'm not a spring chicken.

但我清楚该怎么做并坚持执行。65岁能否恢复我没把握，但如今我的肌肉量超过手术前，身体更健壮了。就像复利效应，我每天坚持锻炼。

And I know what to do and I did it. And it and I wasn't sure if it was going to work at 65, you know, how much can you get back? But I put on more muscle and I'm stronger than I was even before the surgery. And I just did it every day. It was like compounding interest.

每天严格饮食，跟着理疗师训练，有时一天两练。接受各种治疗和针灸，补充营养剂和肌酸，五个月后开始真正好转。录制这期播客时距离手术才七个月。

Every day I ate the best I could. I got in the gym with my physical therapist trainer every day, sometimes twice a day. I got treatments and acupuncture and I just clawed my way back. I took my supplements, took my creatine, took all the things I needed to do. And, it took about five months and and then I really started to kinda come back and it's only been seven months from the recording of this podcast.

现在我完全康复了，状态比以往更好，因为我加倍重视健康管理。

And so I'm I'm back and I feel good. And I feel actually better than I ever have because I've doubled down on my health practices.

天啊。但这

Oh my goodness. But it

说明只要掌握自然法则、生物规律，了解身体运作机制和健康之道——毕竟医生不学这个，他们学的是疾病诊疗。如果你问医生'如何创造健康'，

sort of shows you, you know, if you if you know the laws of nature, the laws of biology, how the body works, how it's designed, how to create health. Right? Because doctors don't learn about that. They don't learn about how to create health, they learn about how to diagnose and treat disease, which is important. But if you say to your doctor, how do I create health, doctor?

他们只会说'改善饮食多运动'。其实这是套系统方法论，正是功能医学研究的核心——如何实现最佳机能与健康状态的科学。

And they're like, well, I don't know. Just eat better, exercise. But there's it's it's a very specific methodology. It's really what functional medicine's about. It's about how do you create optimal function and how do you create optimal health and what is the science of that.

通过这样做，我实际上得以重建自我，恢复健康，现在的感觉甚至比手术前还要好。

And so doing that, I was able to actually build myself back up and create health and actually feel better now than I did before the surgery.

天啊。你是如何重建的？因为我们总说要积极主动，总说要优先保持健康，这正是你专注并做到的。是的。当你陷入那种境地时，心理上确实很难熬。

Oh my gosh. What did it take for you to rebuild? Because we always talk about being proactive, we always talk about being well first, which you focused on and you have. Yeah. And when you end up in a position like that, it's hard mentally.

没错。当然身体上更艰难，如你所说，你的身体65岁了，即使生理年龄是39岁，这也是现实。那么你必须攻克的关键是什么？你提到重建肌肉，为了能重新站在我面前，你具体做了哪些努力？

Yeah. And then of course it's harder physically, as you said, your body's 65, even if your biological age is 39, there's a reality to that. Yeah. What were the key things you had to work on? You talked about building muscle again, what were the things you had to do in order to get back to standing in front of me right now and

我认为健康最大的组成部分是你两耳之间的东西——你的心态。这是你经常谈论的。是你的决心，是相信自己能真正好起来的信念。

The looking biggest component I think of your health is the thing that's between your ears. It's it's your mindset. Something you talk about a lot. It's your determination. It's the belief that you can actually get better.

当时我生理上处于抑郁状态。失血量达一半，红细胞计数只有正常值的一半。严重贫血。所有激素水平都跌至谷底——睾酮、甲状腺素全都紊乱。营养极度匮乏。

And and I was physiologically depressed. I lost half my blood volume, so my blood count was half of what it should have been. I was super anemic. I my hormones all were in the toilet, my testosterone, my thyroid, nothing was working. I was very nutritionally depleted.

我几乎无法进食。所以对我来说，就是每天靠意志力起床完成微小的事，即使内心在说'继续躺着吧'、'放弃吧'、'不值得'。你懂吗？

I hadn't really eat. And and so for me, it was it was just the will to get up every day and do the little things even when my mind was like, just stay in bed. Just give up. It's not worth it. You know?

对多数人来说，很难将想法与现实分离。你在 monastery（修道院）生活过，那本质上就是教你：你不是你的思想，不是你的信念，不是你的身体，对吧？但当深陷其中时，困在感觉糟糕的肉体里，该如何修复？这正是我三十多年来通过功能医学帮助患者的——当他们感觉糟糕时。

And I think for a lot of people, it's hard to divorce your thoughts from reality. I think you you, you know, you lived in a monastery and that's basically what you learn is how you're not your thoughts, you're not your beliefs, you're not your body, you're not right? And and so, you know, but when you're in it, like it's you're in a body, you're in a physical body that feels bad. How do you how do you fix that? And so that's what I've done for thirty plus years with my patients with functional medicine is when they feel bad.

很多美国人状态不佳，六成患有慢性病，93%代谢不健康。多数人患我所谓的'FLC综合征'——就是感觉糟透了（feel like crap）。无论是痛经、头痛、便秘、关节痛、皮疹...人们受苦，但总有出路。

A lot of Americans out there feel bad, you know, six out of ten of us have a chronic illness and ninety three percent of us are metabolically unhealthy. Most of the population has what I call FLC syndrome. That's when you feel like crap. You know? Yeah.

我的方法是不被消极想法左右，无论生理多虚弱，坚持每天微小进步，才达到现在神清气爽的状态。今早还在Equinox健身房锻炼一小时，简直难以置信。

You know, whether it's just little things like painful periods or headaches or constipation or joint aches or skin rashes or whatever it is, you know, people suffer and there is a way through that. And so for me, it was it was a mindset of not believing my thoughts and no matter how physiologically depleted I was, to just do the the baby steps every day that got me to where I am now, which is feeling awesome. And I was in the gym at Equinox working out for an hour this morning, I was like, what?

太了不起了！我真的很欣慰你——这些年帮助了那么多人，但用自己倡导的方法重建自己，这种体验很特别。你现在分享这些帮助听众时，肯定带着双倍的信念——因为你亲历了最严酷的验证。

That's amazing and and I'm so I'm so glad that you've, I mean you've helped so many people over the years but it's a special feeling when you reuse your own work to rebuild. I mean you must have so much conviction and confidence in everything you're about to share. Yeah. In this episode now to help everyone else, you must have a double sense of affirmation that this stuff works because you've had to do it in the most

确实如此。我必须追踪所有的血液检查结果，监测我的营养状态，并据此进行调整和个性化定制。但关键在于，借助我所掌握的知识和数据——这些如今都得益于科技的魔力以及我们科学认知框架对人体理解的爆炸性变革。我们正处在医学和健康领域的范式转变时刻，真正逆转慢性疾病、创造健康、让人们摆脱许多不必要痛苦的承诺，现在已成为可能。这正是让我如此兴奋的原因。

Absolutely. Dire of And I had to track all my blood work and I had to track my my nutrient status and, you know, adjust it and customize it. But it was, you know, having the the knowledge that have and the data I have, which really now is is through the magic of technology and the explosion of the changes in our scientific framework of how we understand the body. Like, we're in this, like, paradigm shifting moment in in medicine and healthcare and and the the the promise of actually reversing chronic disease, of creating health, of people getting free from a lot of the suffering, the needless suffering that they have is is now really possible. And that's really what I'm so excited about.

我已经65岁了，却比以往任何时候都更努力工作，因为我深信此刻正是将我一对一诊疗、书籍成果规模化的大好时机——当人们走过来对我说'海曼医生，你救了我的命'时，这种改变还只是个体层面的。但如果能通过技术手段解析每个人的健康数据，定制精准方案并指导具体执行与动态调整呢？这就是我们正在抵达的未来，简直太棒了。

I mean, I'm just like 65 and I'm working harder than I've ever worked because I believe that there's this moment where all the things that I've done one on one with people or through my books or and, you know, people come up and say, oh, doctor Hyman, you saved my life or whatever. I'm it's one by one by one. But what if what if this can scale through through the ability of technology to make sense of all your personal health data, customize an exact plan for you and guide you exactly on what to do, when to do it, and how to adjust it over time. It's it's like where we are. It's pretty it's pretty cool.

完全同意。如果有人正在收听并想着'马克·海曼医生，我现在感觉糟透了'——

Absolutely. Yeah. What do if someone's listening right now and they're saying, doctor Mark Hyman, I feel like crap. Yeah. Like if someone's listening right now and they're thinking, I feel like crap.

没错。他们该从哪里开始？具体该怎么做？

Yeah. Where should they start? What do they do?

这是个非常棒的问题。杰，其实有个更专业的说法叫FLS——当你感觉像屎一样糟糕时（Feel Like Shit）。

That's a great great question. You know, there's a more serious version, Jay, it's called FLS. When you feel like shit.

对，没错。

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

我发现食物是改变生物机能最强大的工具。它本质上是能改写生理密码的指令——每一口食物都在改变你的基因表达、激素水平、脑化学物质、免疫系统、微生物群和神经递质。这种改变不是以年或十年计，而是实时发生的。

But, you know, I I, you know, have found that food is the most powerful tool to change your biology. It's basically code or instructions that changes your your physiology with every single bite. It changes your gene expression. It changes your hormones, your brain chemistry, your immune system, your microbiome, neurotransmitters. Everything has changed, not in like years or decades, but literally in minutes.

因此食物是最快改变生理状态的方式。但大多数人根本意识不到正是饮食导致他们不适，也不明白所患疾病与食物有关。通过功能医学，我设计了一个通常被称为'排除饮食'的方案——但我更愿称之为'添加饮食'，因为重点是加入具有治疗功效的食物，同时剔除致炎食物。我为患者创建的'十日排毒饮食'计划，有时会让患者持续执行一整年。

And and so food is the most powerful way to quickly shift your biology. And most people, Jay, have no clue that what they're eating is making them feel bad or that their sense of how they are and their conditions that they're suffering from are caused by food. And so what what I've done through functional medicine is is it's often called an elimination diet, but I like to call it an addition diet because you're adding in all of the healing medicinal foods in your diet, you're taking out the inflammatory foods. And so, I created a program that I've used my patients called the ten day detox diet. And sometimes I would have people on for a year.

要是我管它叫'十年排毒饮食'，肯定没人愿意尝试。

You know, if I called it the ten year detox diet, nobody would do it.

绝对没人会报名。

No one's gonna sign up.

是的，报名参加吧。但我称之为‘十天奇迹’，因为十天之内就能见效，这有点神奇。我在全球开展项目，召集人们一起度过一周时间。平均而言，FLC综合征的症状——无论是鼻窦问题、过敏、肠易激、头痛、关节疼痛、痤疮、失眠、抑郁，还是那些不像癌症、痴呆或心脏病那么严重的小毛病——都能得到缓解。真的，你不需要忍受这些痛苦。

Yeah. Sign up. But but I call it the because in ten days, it's it's kind of miraculous. And I run programs around the world where I have people come together and we spend a week. And and the average reduction in symptoms from the FLC syndrome, you know, whether it's, sinus issues or allergies or irritable bowel or headaches or joint pains or acne or insomnia or depression or all the little stuff that isn't like, you know, cancer or dementia or, you know, heart attack that's more serious, all that stuff, literally, you don't have to suffer from.

十天之内？

In ten days?

没错。十天内所有疾病的症状都能减轻70%。我刚到克利夫兰诊所时做过一次演讲，有位先生走过来对我说：‘海曼医生，我有类风湿性关节炎，但做了你的十天排毒后，十天内就好了。这可能吗？’我说：‘当然可能。’

Yeah. And there's a 70% reduction in all symptoms from all diseases in ten days. I mean, was like, when I first got to Cleveland Clinic, I I gave a talk and this gentleman comes up to me and says, doctor Hyman, I have rheumatoid arthritis, but I did your ten day detox and it went away in ten days. Is that possible? I'm like, yes, possible.

这确实发生在你身上了。

It happened to you.

能详细说说那两种类型吗？什么是药用食物

You know? Walk me through the the two types. What are the medicinal foods

好的。

Yeah.

还有哪些是高致炎食物？所以

And what are the highly inflammatory So

高致炎食物显然包括所有超加工食品，它们占我们饮食的60%。我们的整个食品体系就是为了生产大宗商品作物，再转化为超加工食品，被我们大量消费。超市货架上73%都是这类食品，很难避开。这些东西你根本不会放在自家厨房里。

the highly inflammatory foods are obviously all the ultra processed food, which is 60% of our diet. You know, we have a whole food system that's designed to produce commodity crops that's turned into ultra processed food that we're consuming in massive amounts. It's 73% of what's on the grocery store shelves. It's hard to get away from it. And it's it's, you know, stuff that, you know, you wouldn't have in your kitchen.

你不会往蔬菜上撒丁基羟基甲苯，也不会在沙拉酱里加单双甘油酯，对吧？还有麦芽糊精之类的成分，里面的添加剂都极具致炎性——乳化剂、添加剂、色素、染料。

You wouldn't have butylated hydroxytoluene to sprinkle on your vegetables or mono and diglycerides and bottle it to put on your salad dressing. Right? It's maltodextrin. Like, all the crab that's in there is super inflammatory. Emulsifiers, additives, colors, dyes.

再就是糖和淀粉。美国人平均每人每天消耗一磅糖和面粉，这个量太疯狂了，它们会引发强烈炎症。有些人对乳制品敏感，有些人对麸质或谷物过敏。所以我会排除所有可能引发反应的食物，并非这些食物本身不好，但很多肠道有问题的人确实难以消化谷物。

And then there's just the sugar and starch. I mean, we we each in America, eat a pound of sugar and flour a day per person. That's an insane amount of sugar and flour, and that's incredibly inflammatory. Some people react to dairy, some people react to gluten or grains. And so I take away all the things that that are potentially reactive, not that they're necessarily bad foods, but a lot of people have gut issues and that that people have gut issues, have trouble with grains.

而麸质在这个国家与其他地方（比如我们刚讨论过的欧洲）非常不同。那里的麸质是不同基因品种，不使用相同的化学物质处理，也不会喷洒草甘膦——这种会破坏微生物群的除草剂。因此这往往是导致肠道通透性增加和炎症的一个因素。

And gluten in this country is very different than other places like in Europe where we were just talking about we both were this summer. And and they're the it's a different genetic strain. They don't use the same chemicals on it. They don't spray it with glyphosate, which is a microbiome destroyer. And so that that often is a factor in causing leaky gut and inflammation.

所以要戒掉所有糖类、加工食品、面粉和谷物，加入具有疗愈效果的食物，有时还需戒除酒精和咖啡因。然后增加大量水果蔬菜、坚果种子、优质蛋白质，以及牛油果、椰子等健康脂肪。其实很简单，并不困难，花费也不高。短时间内人们就能感觉好转。

So remove all that sugar, processed food, flour, grains, and add in all the foods that are healing, alcohol, caffeine sometimes. And then add in lots of fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, you know, good quality protein, lots of good fats, avocados, coconut, all that stuff. It's just pretty simple. It's like not that hard and it doesn't have to be that expensive. And, in in a very short amount of time, people feel better.

头几天人们会感觉不适，因为当你停止摄入那些引发反应的食物时，会出现所谓的'死亡反应'。原本忙于处理你日常摄入垃圾的免疫细胞突然无事可做，于是形成免疫复合物聚集在一起，让你产生类似流感的症状。这种状态持续约两三天后，到第四五天时，睡眠质量改善、精力更充沛、头脑清醒、症状减轻。

The first few days, people feel bad because what happens is when you stop eating the foods that you're reacting to, you get what's called a a die off reaction. So basically, all the immune cells that are busy dealing with all the crap you're eating all the time have nothing to do. So they form these things called immune complexes, like they glom together and then it's like, you feel like you have the flu. And that lasts maybe a couple days. And then after about day three, four, five, you're like sleeping better, you have more energy, your head's clear, your symptoms are getting better.

甚至五六天内就能减轻70%症状。我们有个名为'十日排毒饮食'的在线项目（10daydetox.com），已帮助数千人实施。每次看到效果我都感到惊讶——这真的这么有效吗？

And even in five, six days, 70% reduction. And and, you know, we we have an online program that's called the ten day detox diet. You can go to 10daydetox.com. We've done it with thousands of people. And it's it's like, I'm always astounded when I see like, does this really work that well?

知道吗？因为这听起来好得简直不像真的。

You know? Because it's like, it's it's almost sounds too good to be true.

太不可思议了。

That's incredible.

但这恰恰证明食物就是药物——不是比喻意义上的药物，而是字面意义上的药物。

But it's just it just shows you that food is medicine and it's not not metaphorically medicine. It literally is medicine.

进入下一环节前，先听听赞助商信息。人们总说'小生意'，但创业无小事。当Rade和我创立Juni时，从命名到调配首款产品，每个决定都至关重要。因为倾注了心血，我们在乎每位顾客。所以拥有合适的平台支持至关重要。

Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. People say small business, but there's nothing small about it. When Rade and I started Juni, every decision felt huge from pricking the name to perfecting our first blend. It all matters because it came from the heart and we care about you. That's why having the right platform behind you makes such a difference.

Shopify深谙此道，他们也是从小起步，如今服务着全球数百万企业。Shopify的POS系统是零售业务的智能中枢，能统一管理线上线下多达1000个网点。想象能确保购物永远便捷：结账后直送客户、线上下单门店自提，简化流程让顾客随心购物，员工每次都能成功成交。

Shopify gets it because they started small too, and now they support millions of businesses around the world. Shopify's point of sale system is a unified command center for your retail business. It brings together in store and online operations across up to 1,000 locations. Imagine being able to guarantee that shopping is always convenient. End of sale, ship to customer, buy online, pick up in store, all made simpler so customers can shop how they want and staff have the tools to close the sale every time.

众所周知获客成本高昂。Shopify POS通过个性化体验和一手数据培养回头客，为营销团队提供竞争优势。数据显示：使用Shopify POS的企业总拥有成本降低22%，销售额平均比市场基准提升8.9%。立即用Shopify为你的小生意配备大能力，现在注册可享首月1美元试用，访问shopify.com/j即刻启程。

And let's face it, acquiring new customers is expensive. With Shopify POS, you can keep shoppers coming back with personalized experiences and first party data that give marketing teams a competitive edge. In fact, it's proven, based on a report from businesses on Shopify POS see real results, like 22% better total cost of ownership and benefits equivalent to an 8.9% uplift in sales on average relative to the market set surveyed. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/j.

访问shopify.com/j。Shopify.com/j。本期《On Purpose》节目由Chase Sapphire Reserve赞助。我认为旅行是我们收到过最美好的礼物之一，而Chase Sapphire Reserve一直是我通往世界迷人目的地的大门。每次旅行时，我都能发现自己未曾察觉的内心缺失。

Go to shopify.com/j. Shopify.com/j. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing.

记得有次置身小镇彻底断网，久违地感受到了内心的宁静。旅行就是如此——让你沉淀、成长并与更深层的自我连接。因此我总在追寻超越常规的体验。Chase Sapphire Reserve让旅行更轻松，通过Chase Travel消费可获8倍积分，还能进入全美精选机场的Sapphire Lounge贵宾室。

I remember being in this small town, completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while, I felt still. Travel does that. It grounds you, expands you, and connects you to something deeper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide.

无论目的地为何，Chase Sapphire Reserve总能让旅程更超值。登录chase.com/sapphirereserve探索更多。卡片由摩根大通银行发行，FDIC成员，需信用审批，条款适用。夏末总是带着甜蜜的惆怅——那些自由奔放的时光渐逝，生活正悄然回归常态。

No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Subject to credit approval Terms apply. It's always bittersweet when summer winds down. You've had this beautiful, free flowing time, and now there's this subtle pullback into routine.

但我其实钟爱这个过渡期。这是重启的契机，而用Wayfair焕新空间是我找到的最佳调节方式。无论是整理家庭办公室、升级平日晚餐厨具，还是打造个性化空间，Wayfair应有尽有。我为阅读角添置了舒适扶手椅和悬浮书架，如今这里已成为最爱的休憩角落——不仅配送快速无忧，更彻底改变了空间氛围。

But I actually love this part. It's a chance to reset, and one of the best ways I've found to ease into that rhythm again is refreshing my space with Wayfair. Whether you're organizing your home office, upgrading your cookware for weeknight dinners, or just wanting to make your space feel more you, Wayfair has everything. I found this really cozy armchair and a few floating shelves for my reading corner, and now it's one of my favorite places to unwind. And not only did they arrive fast and hassle free, they've completely changed the vibe of that corner.

这个角落温馨静谧，正是我重获内心安定所需的。Wayfair提供家具、收纳、寝具、厨房用品等一应家居用品，最棒的是连大件商品都免运费。若你正考虑如何迎接新季节，现在就是通过Wayfair实现的最佳时机。

It's cozy, calming, and exactly what I needed to feel grounded again. Wayfair's got furniture, storage, bedding, kitchen essentials, you name it. And the best part? Delivery's free, even on the big stuff. So if you're thinking about how to ease back into the season ahead, this is the perfect time to do it with Wayfair.

以更少花费实现井井有条、焕然一新的生活节奏。立即访问wayfair.com选购全品类家居用品，就是wayfair.com。Wayfair——万千风格，万千家园。

Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine for way less. Head to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

回到节目正题。我想深入探讨三类致炎食物。首先为不了解的听众解释：什么是炎症？它对身体有何影响？为何需要药用食物并避免致炎食物？

And back to our episode. I wanna dive into each of those three areas of the inflammatory foods. First of all, for anyone who's not aware or doesn't totally understand, what is inflammation? What is that doing to your body? Why is it important to have medicinal foods and avoid inflammatory foods?

是的。现代医学发现炎症几乎是所有慢性病和衰老本身的根源。其实你能感知炎症存在——喉咙痛、木刺导致手指感染、脚踝扭伤，这些都是明显迹象。

Yeah. Well, know, the inflammation is something that now is being understood to be at the root cause of almost all chronic illnesses and aging itself. You know, you'll know if you have inflammation. Right? You have a sore throat, you get an infected finger from a splinter, you sprain your ankle, you know, those are signs Yeah.

但还有种更隐匿的炎症。我们可通过Function Health检测C反应蛋白等指标来评估。由于饮食问题，炎症人群数量惊人，这会导致体内细胞因子分子水平升高。

Of Those are signs of inflammation. But there's another kind of inflammation that's a little more silent. And and we can measure that through blood tests like C reactive protein, which we do through function health. And the the amount of of people who are inflamed is just so massive because of our diet. And so that creates this elevation in in these molecules in our body called cytokines.

疫情期间大家都听过细胞因子风暴——致死的正是这种过度炎症。为何美国死亡率远超预期？我们占全球人口4%，却占新冠死亡病例16%，是应有比例的四倍。

And you from COVID, everybody heard about the cytokine storm. What killed people was this overwhelming inflammation. And and why did Americans die at a far greater rates? We are four percent of the population, but sixteen percent of the deaths and cases of COVID in the world. So four times what we should have been.

这并不是因为我们无法获得医疗护理或没有好医生。而是因为我们所有人都处于前期炎症状态，代谢紊乱但表面健康。最糟糕的炎症来自腹部脂肪。前几天我刚遇到一位52岁的男士，看起来相当健康，但腹部有些赘肉，不算太明显。

It wasn't because we didn't have access to medical care or we didn't have good doctors. It's because we're all pre inflamed. We're all metabolic and healthy. And the worst kind of inflammation is that that comes from your belly fat. So I I just saw a guy a couple days ago who was 52 years old and, you know, looked pretty healthy, but he had like a little gut on him, like not big.

他腹部脂肪率高达32%。这种内脏脂肪就像炎症的温床，本质上是你体内的火源。这种脂肪会导致心脏病发作、中风、癌症，当然还有糖尿病。而他心脏已有90%的血管阻塞。

And he had 32% body fat in his belly. And that visceral fat is like a incubator for inflammation. It's basically a fire in your belly. And that visceral fat cause heart attacks, strokes, cancer, obviously diabetes. And and that he he had a blockage, 90% blockage in his heart.

正是因为他体内潜伏着这种无声的炎症杀手。这不是你喉咙痛那种明显炎症，而是你毫无察觉的隐性炎症。它会引发各种问题——不仅是自身免疫疾病（比如过敏），还有更隐蔽的激素问题（如痛经）、偏头痛、头痛、疲劳等，这些都是体内肆虐却未被察觉的致命炎症信号。通过抗炎饮食和戒除促炎食物，身体能快速重置。

And and it was because he had this inflamed silent killer inside of him. And so so it's not just the inflammation that you know by getting a sore throat, it's it's the quiet inflammation that you don't know you have. Yeah. And and that leads to all these things like can like, not just the obvious things like autoimmune diseases, which we can talk about allergies, but, you know, things that are more subtle, whether it's, you know, hormonal issues like menstrual cramps or issues like migraines or headaches or fatigue or all these things are signs of of this fire raging through your body that you don't know about that's killing you. And so by eating an anti inflammatory diet and removing the inflammatory foods, like, your body will quickly reset.

人体具有与生俱来的智慧。细想真是奇迹——你的身体本就是自愈机器。看看我的经历：我曾卧床不起，

I mean, your body has innate intelligence. This is such a miracle for me when you think about it. Your your body is a healing machine. Like, look what happened to me. Like, I mean, I was in bed.

无法行走，靠助行器支撑，骨瘦如柴，濒临死亡。但当我给予身体正确的输入，它便痊愈了。

I was couldn't walk. I was on a walker. I was emaciated. I was close to death. And when I put the right inputs in, my body healed.

这太神奇了。我有65岁患者同时患心衰、糖尿病、高血压、肝肾衰竭，他们没花十天，而是三个月就停掉了所有药物，逆转了所有病症。即使65、66岁，身体仍有这种潜力。这正是我想带给人们的——让他们掌握知识、能力和工具来自救尝试。

And it's amazing. I've had patients who are 65 with heart failure, diabetes, hypertension, kidneys failing, liver failing, who actually didn't take ten days, but, like, you know, three months, they were off all their medications, reversed all these conditions. The even at 65 or 66 years old, the body can do that. And so that's really what I want for people. I want them to have access to the knowledge, the ability, and the tools to be able to do this for themselves and to try it.

我常说：房间里最聪明的医生是你的身体，只要你倾听它。比如『吃这个胃不舒服』『吃那个会头痛』。但多数人不会把饮食与感受联系起来。

And I don't I don't say the smartest doctor in your room is your own body if you listen to it. Gee, when I eat this, my stomach doesn't feel good. When I have that, I get a headache. But most people don't connect the dots between what they eat and how they feel.

是啊。我们总归咎于生活方式，就像你治疗的那位先生——我们仍活在『我体型不算胖』的认知里。只关注外在体征，殊不知炎症正在体内肆虐。

Yeah. We base it all on lifestyle and we also like the gentleman you were treating, we still live in this world of, oh I'm not that big, small. Right. We're looking at this physical attribute when actually the inflammation is all happening on the inside.

对，他每天坚持慢跑，

Yeah, like he was jogging every day, he

饮食也很健康。没错，他做了所有正确的事。但隐藏因素始终存在，比如糖就是其中之一。

was eating healthy, Exactly, he was yeah. He's doing all the right things. Yeah. But there's this hidden part. One of those hidden things is sugar.

前几天我打匹克球时遇到一件特别震惊的事，有人跟我说‘来喝这个饮料吧’，当时我们身边没水，大家都觉得口渴，天气又很热。然后他拿出几包饮料递给我——我太太训练我要

I find it really shocking when I was playing pickleball the other day, and someone said to me that, oh let's have this drink, like we didn't have, we didn't have any water accessible at the time, were all feeling thirsty, was pretty hot. Yeah. And he had these like packs of drinks and so he handed to me, my wife has trained me to

先舔标签。

Lick a label.

舔标签。我翻过来一看，发现这小包饮料含糖量居然是每日建议摄入的40%，那么小一包，连名字我都不知道。对，40%的每日糖分，还有其他一堆完全不认识的非天然成分。

Lick a label. I turned it around and it was like 40% of your daily sugars in this little pack, It was tiny, I don't even know what it was called. Yeah. 40 of your daily sugars and all these other non natural ingredients that I didn't recognize at all. Yeah.

列了长长一串。我就跟他说，我说老兄

Massive list. And I said to him, I said dude like

这玩意儿我能喝？

Am I drinking this?

对，我就说我不喝。我说我才不要一次性摄入40%的糖分，而且我本来就尽量避免精制糖。

Yeah I was like, I'm not gonna have it. I was like, I'm not gonna have 40% of my sugars in this and I try and avoid refined sugar anyway.

确实。

Yeah.

但在他看来这很离谱。他就说‘没事的老兄，我们都跑了三个小时了，就是脱水而已’。我说‘是脱水，但没必要补糖啊’。我发现现在很多人对戒糖这事还是很不理解。真的吗？

And, but to him that was crazy. He was just like, oh dude it's fine, like we're running for like three hours like we, you know, it's just dehydration. I was like, yeah but you don't need the sugar with it. And I find that sugar is something I still get a lot of pushback on. Really?

是啊，连...这就是我的反应。因为我觉得自己从你这儿，从节目里其他专家，还有我太太那里学到了很多——我以前可是个糖瘾者。

Yeah people, even, that's my reaction. Because I feel like I've been so like well educated by yourself, the other experts on the show, my wife who constantly, because I used to be addicted to sugar.

噢，很容易上瘾。

Oh, easy to.

突然间你就想跟我聊糖的话题，因为我觉得我们某种程度上被洗脑了，认为摄入糖分没问题。

And all of a sudden you get so talk to me about sugar because I think there's a way in which we've been brainwashed to think it's okay.

没错。其实Jay，我们都知道酒精会让人上瘾对吧？但耶鲁大学食物成瘾量表的大规模研究表明——这个科学验证的指标主要用于测量食物成瘾——主要诱因就是糖和淀粉。这个国家14%的人有酒精依赖，同时也有14%的人食物成瘾，儿童群体中也有14%，这可是相当庞大的数字。

Yeah. No. Actually Jay, you know, we know alcohol is addictive, right? But there's been large studies done using the Yale Food Addiction Scale, which is a scientifically validated metric that measures food addiction, and it's primarily sugar and starch. And fourteen percent of people in this country are alcoholics, but fourteen percent are also addicted to food and fourteen percent of kids, which is a lot of kids.

所以糖在生理层面确实会让人上瘾。少量摄入对健康人没问题，如果你体魄强健，适量吃些无妨。问题在于我们文化中的摄入量——我们的生理机制根本处理不了这么大量的糖分。

So it's it's biologically addictive. A little bit is not gonna hurt you. If you're healthy, if you're fit, you can have some. It's it's just the volume that we have in this culture. I mean, it's something that our bi biology doesn't know what to do with.

历史上我们是狩猎采集者时，每年仅摄入22茶匙糖。现在人均每天就要摄入22茶匙。哇。确实。

Historically, we were hunter gatherers. We had twenty two teaspoons a year. Now the average person has twenty two teaspoons a day. Wow. Yeah.

这个对比太令人震惊了。

And so That that is mind blowing.

是啊。你想想

Yeah. You had

一年才二十二茶匙。

Twenty two teaspoons a year.

作为狩猎采集者，要是发现蜂蜜会欣喜若狂：天啊我找到蜂蜜了！然后才会吃一点。但那时候糖分很难获取。

So you were a hunter gatherer, you'd like get some honey. Oh my god. I found honey, you know. And and you'd eat it. But it was hard to get sugar.

而且那时候人类活动量也大得多。

And you were more active then too.

对。还要不停奔跑。确实。

Yeah. And you're running Yeah. All the time too.

因为你一年才找一次那罐蜂蜜。不是罐子，抱歉。

Because you're looking for that jar of honey once a year. Not jar, sorry.

实际上我当时在哈扎部落，那是非洲最后的狩猎采集部落之一。他们食用大量蜂蜜，约20%的热量来自蜂蜜，但他们却非常健康，因为他们摄入大量纤维。那些根茎类食物富含纤维。美国人每天仅摄入约8克纤维。

It was actually I was I was in the Hadza tribe, which is one of the last hunter gatherer tribes in in Africa. And they they they eat a lot of honey. They eat like about 20 of calories honey, but they're super fit and healthy because they're just like eating tons of fiber. So they basically all the roots and the tubers have massive amounts of fiber. Americans eat about eight grams of fiber a day.

作为狩猎采集者，我们祖先每天摄入150克纤维。纤维就像海绵——比如把美达施纤维粉加入可乐，对血糖的影响会完全不同。首先它会凝结成胶状，饮用后也不会造成血糖骤升。

We were historically, as hunter gatherers, having a 150. And and fiber basically is like a sponge. So for example, if you take your Coca Cola and you throw in a bunch of Metamucil, it's gonna have a very different effect on your blood sugar. It's gonna turn to gel, first of all, if you leave it there for long enough. And then if you drink it, it's not gonna cause the same spike.

问题在于现代饮食高度加工且高糖，这会催生内脏脂肪。从生理角度看，一碗玉米片、一碗糖或一条面包对下半身的影响没有区别。面包的升糖指数甚至更高，因为它是纯葡萄糖。

So it just not a it's just the whole context of our diet is it's become highly processed, lots of sugar, and it and it drives the visceral fat. So sugar and starch, and by the way, below the neck, your body can't tell the difference between a bowl of cornflakes and a bowl of sugar or a loaf of bread and a, you know, a bowl of sugar. It's the same. In fact, it sometimes in terms of glycemic index, the the bread is worse because it's pure glucose whereas sugar is fructose and glucose, which has different effects on your blood sugar. But basically, they're both the same.

这直接导致腹部脂肪堆积。这些脂肪不仅支撑裤子，更是代谢活跃组织：它引发炎症、扰乱激素、导致不孕不育、阿尔茨海默病、癌症、糖尿病、心脏病甚至衰老本身。在美国，93.2%的人存在这种代谢功能障碍。

And what that does is that drives the deposition of belly fat. And that belly fat, which is not just holding up your pants, it's metabolically very active, it produces tons of inflammation, screws up your hormones, it causes infertility, it causes Alzheimer's disease, it causes cancer, it causes diabetes, causes heart attacks, it causes aging itself. And when you look around in America, ninety three percent of us, well, ninety three point two to be exact, have this metabolic dysfunction. That means six point eight percent of us don't, which is

太可怕了。令人毛骨悚然。

frightening. Frightening.

这不符合人类进化规律。比如美洲原住民并非天生易患糖尿病——百年前的皮马印第安人根本没有糖尿病、肥胖或心脏病。

And and that's not how humans evolved. We didn't evolve like that. People of the Native Americans are, you know, genetically diabetic. Well, no, they're not. Like the Pima Indians a hundred years ago had no diabetes, no obesity, no heart attacks.

如今他们30岁前患糖尿病率达80%，连两岁幼儿都患二型糖尿病，因为他们在狂饮我们输送到保留地的含糖饮料和精制面粉。基因如同上膛的枪，但环境扣动了扳机。

And now they're, you know, get eighty percent get diabetes by the time you're 30 and even two year olds get type diabetes because they're just drinking tons of sugar, sodas and flour and all the commodities that we send to the reservations that are all the crap we shouldn't be eating. Yeah. So so yeah, if you put your genes in the wrong environment, the genes may load the gun but the environment pulls the trigger.

我要特别感谢你推荐的Function Health公司。初次了解时我就被其功能震撼——我们讨论的所有健康问题，难点在于不到症状严重时根本无法察觉。作为人类，我们从未被教导这些知识。

I wanna give a shout out to this incredible company that you brought my way, Function Health. When you first brought it to me I was so impressed at what it does because I think everything we're talking about, the challenge is we don't know until we feel something in quite an extreme way. Yeah. Right? So we just don't know as humans, we don't know these things, we were never taught them.

若非遇见妻子和做这个播客，我也不会知道这些。93.2%的数据说明我们绝大多数人都处于无知状态。

Yeah. If I didn't meet my wife, if I didn't have this podcast, I wouldn't be educated. Just, how would I know this? Yeah. And when you talk about the 93.2%, that's all of us who just don't know.

没错。然后你、我妻子以及像你们这样的人就属于那6.8%。

Yeah. And then you, my wife and you and people like that are the 6.8%.

顺便说一句，我很喜欢你妻子，

I love your wife by the way,

她确实...突然间你接受了教育，这就是功能健康的作用。你能做这些检测的事实

she's Yeah. And all of a sudden you get educated and then that's what functional health does. The fact that you can take these tests

就像打开引擎盖检查。

You look under the hood.

你可以获得所有结果，在家就能知道，或者随时去做检测，真正了解体内发生的变化。当你最初向我推荐时，我就成了这家公司的自豪投资者——因为我从未见过有人能大规模提供这类数据。虽然我很幸运能享受一些高端医疗服务，但我不明白那93.2%的普通人如何获得这些，而这正是功能健康在做的事。

You can get all the results, you know it from being at home or you know popping to get a test done, you have access to actually know what's happening inside your body. Yeah. And I became a proud investor in the company when you first brought it to me because I'd never seen someone make that kind of data available at mass and at scale. I was going to some concierge services which I'm very fortunate to have access to, but I didn't see how the world, the 93.2% could have access to these things and that's what Functional Health's doing.

想象一下开车没有仪表盘。不知道车速、油量、机油状况。

Yeah. I mean imagine driving your car, you don't have any dashboard. You don't know how fast you're going. You know how much gas in the car. You know how much oil is in there.

不知道发动机灯是否正常，轮胎气压如何。现代汽车有这么多传感器提供信息，而我们现在的医疗却像靠听发动机异响来猜故障，而不是直接检查引擎。

You know if the engine light's good. You don't know your tire pressure's good. I mean, think of the amount of sensors and information you get from your car these days. Right? We practice medicine today, like, listening to the noises a car makes and hoping we can figure it out instead of looking under the hood.

所以我认为应该通过检测而非猜测来了解健康状况。可穿戴设备很棒，比如Oura戒指、Fitbit或苹果手表，但它们只停留在皮肤表层。你需要知道体内生物指标——疾病不是突然发生的，比如某天突然心脏病发作。

And so, you know, I believe we should be testing and not guessing on what's going on with their health. And the wearables are great, you know, Oura Ring or Fitbit or, you know, Apple Watch, awesome boop. They tell you a lot, but they don't go under the skin. And so you need to know what's happening in your biology. And the truth is that disease doesn't just happen like that one day, you get a heart attack.

这是个长达数十年的渐进过程。你能看到变化轨迹，发现细微指标波动如何随时间累积最终致病。功能健康的美妙之处在于：首次检测覆盖110+生物标志物，年中二次检测时还能加测毒素、过敏原、莱姆病等项目。你会获得直观仪表盘，像车载系统般清晰显示身体变化，学习如何调整——所有信息都基于全球科学文献、专家知识和你的个人数据集，是真正为你设计的医疗方案。

It's a slow progression over decades. And you can see the continuum of what happens. And you can see slight changes in variations that will compound over time and make you ultimately very sick. And the beautiful thing about function health is you can actually get your biomarkers done at over a 110 biomarkers, your initial test, you do a second test mid year, you can add on tests for looking at other things, whether you want toxins or allergens or Lyme disease or whatever you want to know about yourself. And then you get this beautiful dashboard that shows you exactly what's going on and like, you know, you get like in our car dashboard and you can see the change over time and then you can learn what to do about it and what's going on with your body and how to make adjustments and you get all the information.

已有数十万会员通过它深入了解健康。我们发现的某些数据令人震惊——比如在癌症筛查中，天啊，很多人根本不知道自己患癌。

It's supported by all the scientific literature in the world, by knowledge experts, by your own personal dataset. And it's really medicine designed for you. And it's it's really quite a remarkable thing and people seem to have taken to it because we have, you know, hundreds of thousand members and people are learning so much about their health. And I've been shocked at the data that we're finding, you know, like we found all these cancers. I was just reviewing our our cancer screening and God, you know, people don't know they have cancer.

我是说，我有个朋友刚在一个月前因乳腺癌去世，才45岁，这让人心碎，你知道吗？而现在通过血液检测，借助功能健康技术，你实际上可以看到针对50种不同癌症的液体活检。我正在查看所有人的电子表格和他们发现的情况，在后续跟进中，他们原本不知道自己患癌。结果在早期阶段发现了，从而挽救了他们的生命，而不是等到为时已晚。所以，你知道，这总是...关于代谢健康的整个问题，我是说，大多数医生不检查胰岛素，而了解胰岛素水平极其重要，因为最先升高的是胰岛素，不是你的血糖。

I mean, I had a friend who just died like a month ago who from breast cancer at 45 years old, it was heartbreaking, know. And and now through the blood test, can get through function health, you can actually see like a liquid biopsy for 50 different cancers. And I was reviewing the spreadsheet of all the people and what they found and in a follow-up and like, they didn't know they had cancer. And then they found it in an early stage and then it saves their lives as opposed to waiting until too late. So, you know, it's always and and the whole thing of the metabolic health, I mean, most doctors don't check insulin, which is extremely important to know about because insulin is what goes up first, not your blood sugar.

而且大多数医生不看正确的胆固醇检测。ApoB是最重要的检测指标。我有位朋友给我发了篇文章说：海曼医生，看看这篇关于预测心脏病风险的最新检测方法的文章。

And most doctors don't look at the right cholesterol test. ApoB is the most important test. I had a friend send me an article. Said, doctor Hyman, look at this article. It's about this latest new test for predicting heart attack risk.

这比其他任何检测都准确。我就问：这是什么？查了后发现：哦，原来叫ApoB。我说这检测我做了三十年。它最具预测性，但人们却只查LDL胆固醇。

It's better than any other test. I'm like, what is it? I'm like, I looked it up and it's like, oh, it's called ApoB. I'm like, I've been testing that for thirty years. It's the most predictive but people check your LDL cholesterol.

那根本不是关键指标。所以我们不仅做这个，还会深入分析你的代谢健康、营养状况，检测毒素和激素水平，我们还发现自身免疫疾病。上播客前我查过数据，根据CDC统计约8%美国人患有自身免疫疾病。但查看我们的数据时，33%的人呈自身免疫抗体阳性，这太惊人了——意味着三分之一的美国人要么患有自身免疫疾病，要么处于前驱期。

That's not the thing that matters. And and so we do that and we do deeper analysis of your metabolic health, your nutritional health, looking at toxins, hormones, and we're finding autoimmune diseases. I mean, I looked it up, before I came on the podcast, was curious because it you know, about eight percent according to the, you know, CDC of Americans have an autoimmune disease. But when I looked at our data, we're seeing thirty three percent have a positive autoimmune antibody, which is incredible. I mean, that's a third of Americans have some either autoimmune disease or pre autoimmune disease.

而且有方法可以干预并解决根本原因。最妙的是我们采用根源疗法，不是简单说'你有自身免疫病就吃这个药'或'胆固醇高就服那个药'。而是整合全球科学知识，通过生活方式调整、解决根本原因来创造健康，而非仅仅缓解或抑制症状。这非常令人振奋。现在我们还能提供4.99美元的全身体成像服务。

And there's stuff you can do about it and get to the root cause. And what's beautiful about it is that we use root cause medicine, not just, oh, you have an autoimmune disease, take this drug, or you have high cholesterol, take this drug. It's like, well, how do I solve this using all the world scientific knowledge about how to best do this through lifestyle and dealing with root causes and creating health rather than just mitigating symptoms or suppressing symptoms. So it's it's pretty exciting. And I think, you know, we we now have full body imaging for $4.99.

你知道吗，你只需每天支付499美元37美分就能完成全套血液检测。

You know, you can get your whole blood test for $499 dollar 37 a day.

我对你们提供的服务印象深刻，Function Health的成果让我如此喜爱，以至于我不仅进行了投资，还为团队每位成员都购买了会员资格。

I'm really impressed by what you offered and I love what Function Health has done so much that I didn't just invest, I've got every member of my team a membership.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

因为我想不出比让人们获取健康知识、了解体内状况更好的礼物了。如果我希望员工在工作中表现出色、保持最佳状态并关注健康，这在我看来是最恰当的选择。而且我知道你们实际上为我们的社区专门创建了一个折扣。

Because I couldn't think of a better gift to give people than accessing their knowledge and knowing what's happening inside their body. Like if I want people to perform at work and feel their best and care about their health, to me it felt like the right thing to do. So, and I know you've actually created a, you've created a discount for our community.

是的，专为我们准备的。

Yeah, For us.

你们为我们提供什么服务？

What are you doing for us?

访问functionhealth.com/jayshetty，会员立减100美元。这是个会员计划，检测项目翻倍。原本价格是400美元或3.99美元，现在你能全面了解身体状况。

It's functionhealth.com/jayshetty and you get a $100 off your membership. It's a membership. Twice your testing. So it's, you know, $400 or $3.99. And and, and you get to know what's going on.

健康这份礼物——你们为员工所做的太棒了，因为没有什么比健康更珍贵的礼物了。

It's and the gift of health is, you know, what you did for your employees is amazing because there is no better gift than the gift of health.

是啊，往往失去时才懂得珍惜。我人生中有好几次健康亮红灯的经历，那时才明白早知道有多重要。

Well, you only realize that when it when it goes away. Yeah. And I've had many episodes in my life where my health has not been great. Yeah. And that's when you realize just how valuable it is to know sooner.

没错。能及早发现真是太好了。记住这个网址functionhealth.com/josechetti。

Yeah. You know, earlier and know before and you know, I'm glad. So that's great. So functionhealth.com/josechetti.

对的。

That's right.

立减100美元。作为投资人，我真的很自豪能参与其中。想聊聊自身免疫性疾病——现在我这个年纪，听到的不是免疫系统问题就是癌症，甚至身边离世的人也比以往多，这不只是因为年龄增长。

$100 off. And as I said, I'm an investor and you know, really proud to be involved and really excited to get it out. I wanna talk about the autoimmune diseases because it feels like, I feel like right now I'm at that age where I'm either hearing about autoimmune or cancer, or sadly people dying, more than I ever have in my entire lifetime. That's not just because I'm getting older though. No.

这些疾病确实越来越普遍了。

It's becoming more prevalent.

没错。慢性病的增长曲线简直陡峭得惊人。150年前——或者说120年前的20世纪初，医院里要是有人心脏病发作，就像在曼哈顿看到疟疾病例一样稀罕，医生们都会跑来围观这种罕见病例。

It is. I mean the hockey stick of chronic diseases is going like this, it's really striking. Mean, things that were rare a hundred and fifty years ago, you know, turn the or hundred twenty years ago, turn to the nineteen hundreds. If you had a heart attack in a hospital, it would be like seeing this rare case of malaria in like Manhattan, you know. Like, all the doctors would rush around to see this unusual case.

哇，那时候连二型糖尿病都不存在。查查1850年代麻省总医院的记录，根本没有这个诊断。人们压根不会得这种病。

Wow. Diabetes wasn't even a thing in type two diabetes. If you look at the records of Mass General in the eighteen fifties, it wasn't even a diagnosis. You know? People didn't have it.

那么为何我们会目睹这种爆发式增长？自身免疫疾病有超过100种不同类型，从桥本甲状腺炎（每五位女性就有一位患病，男性则是十分之一）到红斑狼疮、类风湿性关节炎、多发性硬化症、结肠炎、克罗恩病等等。治疗这些疾病的药物毒性极强，本质上是在抑制免疫系统，伴随诸多副作用且价格昂贵，疗效还不一定理想。

So why why are we seeing this explosion? Autoimmune disease, there are over a 100 different autoimmune diseases, you know, everything from Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is affecting one in five women, that's an autoimmune thyroid condition, one in ten men. Lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, MS, colitis, Crohn's disease, there are over a 100 different autoimmune diseases and people are suffering from these things. And the drugs that we use are incredibly toxic. They basically suppress your immune system, They have all these side effects and they're extremely expensive and they don't necessarily always work that well.

问题在于我们为何要这样做？功能医学的核心正是探究这个'为什么'——不是关注患了什么病该吃什么药，而是追根溯源。免疫疾病激增的原因是多方面的：过去50-70年间，农业工业化导致饮食结构剧变，农药除草剂大量使用；

And the question then is why are we doing this? I mean, is what functional medicine is about is what function is created on the basis of this idea of why. Not what disease do have and what drug do I get, but why. And the reason why we're seeing such an explosion about immune disease is a combination of different factors. One, our diet has changed dramatically over the last fifty to seventy years because of industrialization of agriculture, the use of pesticides, herbicides.

剖腹产率上升意味着婴儿无法获得肠道菌群定植（人体60%免疫系统在肠道），而许多自身免疫病源于肠道问题。配方奶粉喂养增加也影响重大——母乳中25%的热量其实是专门喂养婴儿微生物组的，这对免疫系统发育至关重要。

The increasing rates of c section means you don't colonize your gut and 60% of your immune system is in your gut. And a lot of autoimmune disease is caused by trouble with the gut. The increasing rates of formula feeding, you know, not breast milk, which protects the baby's immune system is necessary for the development of them. I mean, 25% of the calories in breast milk is not digestible by the baby. It's to feed the microbiome, which is amazing.

哇，这太不可思议了。配方奶不含这些成分，导致微生物群紊乱，继而引发肠漏症。

Wow. Yeah. It's crazy. That's And when you eat have formula, you don't have that in there. And so the microbiomes are disturbed and then you get leaky gut.

儿童抗生素滥用严重，疫苗接种计划也加速推进（我支持疫苗但需谨慎）。我小时候乃至我孩子小时候（并不久远）疫苗种类有限，现在却像免费派发...

We use lots of antibiotics in children. We have accelerated vaccine schedules. Vaccines I believe in, I think they're important. But like when I was a kid and when I my kids were kids, which was not long ago, there was a, you know, a limited set of vaccines and now it's free for all and the

听起来现在要打15、16种疫苗？

vaccine sounds like you gotta take 15 or 16.

没错，差不多72针次。这些会通过添加铝等刺激物影响免疫系统。同时环境化学物质暴露激增——如今新生儿脐带血中平均含287种毒素（包括禁用的DDT、二恶英、多氯联苯等），重金属农药应有尽有。

Yeah. It's like 72 different jabs of of And so that that affects your immune system and they they they do they do things that affect your immune system by putting in irritants like aluminum. And then the exposure to environmental chemicals has exploded, heavy metals, pesticide. The average newborn baby today, Jay, has 287 toxins in their umbilical cord blood before they take their first breath, including stuff that's been banned for years like DDT and dioxin, PCBs, phthalates, flame retardants, lead, mercury, pesticides, herbicides. I mean, you name it, it's in there.

这些被称为'自免疫原'的环境毒素已形成专门学科。我治愈过许多通过排毒重金属康复的自身免疫病患者——这些毒素是重大诱因。

And so all that has an impact and they're called autogens. There's a whole science around this. These are environmental toxins that cause autoimmunity. And I've seen many patients with autoimmune diseases that we I cured by getting rid of their heavy metals or detoxifying their bodies. And so these these toxins are a huge factor.

现代压力因素同样致命：睡眠不足、慢性压力、光污染、电磁辐射（虽不确定但值得关注）。超加工食品中的乳化剂会破坏肠壁，导致食物细菌从细胞间隙渗漏——而仅单层细胞之隔就是人体大部分免疫系统。

And then you've got all the modern stresses, you know, we're low with sleep, you know, we're under too much chronic stress, you know, light pollution, who knows what EMF. I don't even know if that's a thing, but I'm not saying it is. I'm saying it's just all this stuff that we never had to deal with and we're just seeing our immune system become so dysregulated. And the ultra processed food revolution has been another huge factor because in ultra processed food, there's all these emulsifiers. Emulsifiers are basically the things that make stuff creamy and, you know, like if you ever got some of the, like, nut milks and they separate out when you put in your coffee, it's because they don't use emulsifiers.

明白吗？乳化剂使食物呈现奶油质地，却几乎存在于所有超加工食品中。它们造成肠漏后，食物细菌会穿透细胞层——而肠道上皮细胞下方正是免疫系统大本营。想想为何免疫系统主要分布在肠道？因为这里每天接触最多外来物质。

Right? And emulsifiers basically make things creamy, and they're using almost all ultra processed food and they damage the gut lining and they they cause a what we call leaky gut where the cells come apart and then food and bacteria leak in between your cells. And then right underneath your cell lining, which is just one cell thick, is most of your immune system. And think about why is why is most of your immune system in your gut? Well, it's because we're exposed to most of the foreign stuff every day.

你在那里塞进了大量外来食物，连同你体内微生物群的所有细菌。那里有三磅细菌，基本上就是个下水道，你离变成下水道只差一个细胞。当这些物质分解时，你的免疫系统会反应：这不是我。怎么回事？然后它开始攻击各种东西，造成大量误认现象，我们称之为分子模拟——它以为自己攻击的是细菌或食物，结果却会攻击你的关节、眼睛、神经，导致多发性硬化症或甲状腺问题。

You're putting pounds of of foreign food in there and you're putting all the bacteria from your microbiome. There's three pounds of bacteria in there that is, you know, basically a sewer, you know, and it is like one you're one cell away from a sewer. And so when that breaks down, your immune system will go, this isn't me. What's going on? And it starts attacking things and then it creates just a lot of of mistaken identity, things we call molecular mimicry where it thinks it's attacking a bacteria or food, but it then will attack your joints or your eyes or your your your nerves and get MS and your thyroid gland.

所以我们正目睹这场免疫风暴的爆发。而美妙之处在于，通过理解根本原因，你实际上可以逆转它。我曾患自身免疫性疾病，家里还有霉菌污染，几乎得过人类已知的所有病症。

So basically, we're seeing this explosion. And and the beautiful thing is by understanding the root causes, that you can actually reverse it. I had an autoimmune disease. I actually had mold in my house. I've I've gotten everything known to man.

我感染过莱姆病和霉菌病，曾住在一个旧谷仓里导致严重霉菌中毒。雪上加霜的是，我做过根管治疗，拔过牙，服用过抗生素。那种抗生素引发了艰难梭菌感染——这种细菌会导致严重肠道感染，最终发展成溃疡性结肠炎。我的整个肠道就像一片红色废墟，不得不重新修复。

I've got Lyme disease, mold disease, and I had I lived in an old barn and I got really bad mold poisoning. And then on top of that, I had a root canal, had it removed, had an antibiotic. The antibiotic called something called C. Diff, which is a bacteria that causes really bad gut infections that turned into ulcerative colitis. My whole intestinal tract was just one big red mess and I had to heal it.

所以你看，建立健康是有方法论的——这正是我想让人们知道的。这就是功能医学如此重要的原因，它教你如何激活与生俱来的自愈系统。人体自带修复、再生与更新机制，正因如此我才能从死亡边缘回来，因为我懂得如何唤醒它。这正是我希望所有人都掌握的知识。

And so, you know, there is a methodology for creating health and that's that's that's that's what I want people to know. That's why functional health is so important because it teaches you how to turn on your own innate healing system. You've got a healing regenerative repair and renewal system. That's why I could come back from the dead because I knew how to turn it on, you know? And that's what I want everybody to know.

这确实是我从事这份事业的原因，包括做播客、写书、像现在这样和Trevor对谈——本质上都是同一部电影的不同版本，你明白吗？

And that's really why I do what I do, why I have the podcast, why I write books, why Trevor, I'm speaking like you, it's the same it's the same movie, different story. And you know

听众该如何辨别自己的免疫系统强弱？具体有哪些征兆？

What are what are the signs for someone who's listening of a weak immune system and a strong immune system? Yeah. How do they tell?

要知道炎症反应和免疫系统状态有所不同，因为你可能处于炎症状态但免疫力低下。反复感染、经常感冒、持续疲惫感——这些都是免疫系统失常的信号。你对压力更敏感，更容易生病。通过功能医学我们发现，很多人存在营养缺乏问题，像锌、维生素D、铁等营养素对免疫功能至关重要。

I mean, you know, the inflammation immune system are a little bit different because you're, you know, you can be inflamed but have a weaker immune system. So frequent infections, frequent colds, feeling run down, I mean, there there are signs that that your immune system's not working. And you get, you know, less resilient to stress, you get sick more easily. And so there's those are signs that there's problems. And and one of the things we find through Functional Health is that so many people have nutritional deficiencies and nutrients like zinc and vitamin d and iron, these play a big role in your immune function.

而且...

And and

其实'营养补充剂'这个说法本身就不妥，听起来像是可有可无的额外选项，但实际上...

It's actually, even supplements is such a bad word for supplements because it sounds like something that, you know, you're just supplementing but it's like

仿佛不是必需品似的。

Like it's not necessary.

没错，我就是这个意思，对吧？‘补充剂’这个词本身就让人觉得它是个附加品。

Yeah exactly, that's what I mean, right? The word supplement in and of itself feels like it's an add on.

对。

Right.

而不是说，这是必需品。

Rather than like, this is necessary.

对。

Right.

对吧？我觉得我们现在还处在一个补充剂尚未成为常态的时代。人们把它看作某种健康小窍门，而不是身体必需的营养。

Right? Like I think we're still living in this time where supplements haven't become the norm. Yeah. People see it as some health hack tip as opposed to no, this is just what your body needs as nutrients. My

我开玩笑说，没人需要补充剂——除非满足特定条件：必须自己狩猎采集野生食物、饮用纯净水、不接触环境毒素、没有慢性压力、每晚睡九小时、日出而作日落而息。如果这些都做到了，你或许真能靠天然食物获取营养。

joke is I don't think anybody needs supplements, but only under certain conditions. They have to hunt and gather their own wild food, have to drink pure clean water, be exposed to no environmental toxins, have no chronic stress, sleep nine hours a night, go to bed with the sun, wake up with the sun. Then then if you do all that, you might end eating something. It's like that.

后面六条我还能做到，但前三条嘛...（笑）

I'm good with the last six, but out of the first three, Aaron.

你今天没去打猎？

You haven't gone hunting today?

是啊...没去

Yeah. Yeah. No. I didn't go

打猎。所以我们的土壤因为工业化...土壤问题...对吧？

hunting today. Yeah. And so our soils have become damaged because of industrial The soil. Yeah. Right?

植物获取养分的方式依赖于土壤中的有机物质。它与土壤微生物及植物根系形成共生关系，从而吸收养分。但如果你在贫瘠的泥土中种植——那里既无养分也无法被植物吸收，因为缺乏形成共生关系所需的有机质——如今你种的西兰花营养价值比五十年前低了50%。加之我们做了许多让身体承受更多压力的事，我们实际上需要更多营养。

And and the way your plants get nutrients is because of the organic matter in the soil It has a symbiotic relationship with the microbes in the soil and with the plant roots then allows it to extract the nutrients. But if you basically grow plants in dirt, not soil, where there's no nutrients or they're not accessible because the body the the plants can't get them because they don't have the right organic matter to create the symbiotic relationship. Your broccoli today is 50% less nutrients than it did fifty years ago. Plus, you know, we do a lot of things to cause more stress for our bodies. We need more nutrients.

镁是普遍缺乏的重要营养素——人在压力状态下会通过尿液排出镁。而我们很少食用坚果、种子、豆类和绿叶蔬菜等富镁食物，这些并非美国人饮食的主要部分。所以很多人缺镁，同时也缺乏维生素D。

And like magnesium is a very big nutritional deficiency because when you're stressed, you pee out magnesium. And then we don't eat a lot of magnesium rich foods like nuts and seeds and beans and leafy greens. Right? It's not a big part of Americans' diet. So a lot of people are low in magnesium, and low in vitamin d.

我们发现80%的人维生素D不足或缺乏，这对免疫功能至关重要。如果维生素D水平低，进入ICU甚至死亡的风险会增加75%。而以色列大型研究显示，当维生素D水平超过50时，死亡率为零。它的影响力如此强大——这些营养素几乎调控着你体内的每个生化反应。

We see eighty percent of people being insufficient or deficient in vitamin d, which is incredibly important for immune function. And and I mean, if your vitamin D was low, you were seventy five percent more likely to end up in the ICU and die. Or if your vitamin D was over 50, this big Israeli study, there were no deaths. So it's that it's that powerful. There there there are things that regulate almost every biochemical reaction in your body.

你体内每秒发生370亿次化学反应。这个数字有多大？想象后面跟着27个零。

And you've got 37,000,000,000 chemical reactions every second happening. Every one of those and that's a big number. You know how many zeros that is? Lot of zero. Think it's 27 zeros.

每个反应都需要营养素作为酶促反应的辅助因子。但多数人处于缺乏状态——通过Function Health的深度营养检测（包括欧米伽3、维生素D、B族维生素、铁等），我们发现67%的会员（本应是健康意识超前的人群）营养水平仅够预防缺乏症（如佝偻病或坏血病），远未达到理想标准。

And and every single one of those reactions requires a nutrient to work as a cofactor for the enzymatic reaction. And most of us are deficient. In fact, with function health, we do deep nutritional testing, omega threes, vitamin d, all the b vitamins, iron, so forth. And we find sixty seven percent of our members who you think would be forward thinking about their health are deficient in nutrients, not at the level that I would think would be optimal, but at the level that prevents a deficiency disease. So like not the ideal amount, but the bare minimum so you don't get like rickets or scurvy or, you know, like and that's not and that's sixty seven percent.

如果将标准提高到最优水平，这个比例可能会更高。

So if you've expanded the criteria to be what's optimal, it would probably be even more.

确实令人不安，但当下开始重视至关重要。人们能意识到自身有自身免疫性疾病的症状吗？这有可能吗？

Yeah. It's it's scary to think about it but it's so important to start being aware right now. Can someone know that they have some symptoms of an autoimmune disease? Like is it possible?

存在自身免疫前状态（如糖尿病前期或高血压前期），我不喜欢这类术语，它们暗示问题尚未发生。实际上问题已经存在——必须通过血液检查识别异常趋势。有些人可能正遭受轻微症状困扰却不自知。

Well, there's pre autoimmune disease, like there's pre diabetes or pre hypertension, and I don't like those terms because they imply that it's you haven't gotten into trouble yet. But but you are in trouble. You're you're there is something bad happening. And so you have to actually look at at the the blood work to help you identify if you're heading in the wrong direction and you can see. But then you could you could be somebody who's suffering from low grade symptoms.

以甲状腺问题为例：你可能只是有点疲倦、轻微便秘或皮肤干燥。

You might not know it. Like, thyroid is really common. You might be a little bit tired. You might be a little constipated. You might a little dry skin.

指甲可能易裂，眉毛外三分之一脱落，情绪低落，性欲减退——这些症状常被忽视，体重也可能略有增加。

Your nails might crack a little bit. You might be losing the outer third of your eyebrow. You might feel a little depressed. You might have lower sex drive. And these things people don't really may gain a little bit of weight.

我是说，人们不认为这些是疾病，但当你把它们加在一起时，就是一种自身免疫性甲状腺问题。对吧？甚至肠道问题，比如肠易激综合征，很多人都有消化问题。是的。这其实是一个从肠易激到自身免疫性肠病的连续谱系，最终可能发展为结肠炎或克罗恩病。

I mean, people don't think of these as a disease, but when you add them all together, it's an autoimmune thyroid issue. Right? And even even gut issues, you know, irritable bowel, a lot of people have digestive issues. Yeah. And it's really a continuum from irritable bowel to autoimmune bowel disease, which is where you get colitis or Crohn's disease.

所以这是个连续过程。很多人体内都有这种低度炎症反应，这真的很不幸，因为我们知道如何解决它。这正是功能医学所做的——我认为在身体出问题前通过检测了解身体状况至关重要。就像心脏病发作的第一症状，你知道对大多数人来说是什么吗？对50%的心脏病患者而言，首发症状就是猝死。

And so it's a continuum. A lot of people have this low grade inflammatory stuff going on in their bodies and and it's really it's unfortunate because we know how to fix it. And and this is really what we do in functional medicine is why I think testing and understanding what's going on with your body before you get in trouble. It's like, you know, the first symptom of a heart attack, you know what it is for most people? For fifty percent of people with heart disease, the first symptom is sudden death.

突然心脏病发作。就像那个人告诉你的，他慢跑时持续胸痛却一直忽视，直到女友强迫他去检查，结果发现血管有90%堵塞。而他原本对此毫无察觉。

Jumped out of heart attack. Like this guy was telling you about, he was jogging and he kept having chest pain. And he was ignoring it, and then he finally decided to go check it out because his girlfriend made him go. And and turned out he had a 9% blockage. He And wouldn't know anything.

他完全可能就这样猝死于心脏病发作。

He could have literally just dropped out of a heart attack like that.

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我正一头扎进尖端科学领域，试图在七万人面前揭示世界上三大强大力量？

I'm diving head first into cutting edge science to uncover three powerful in the world in front of 70,000 people?

第二步，拥抱你的痛苦。

Step two, embrace your pain.

没错。来吧，我们开始。

Yeah. Come on. Let's go.

我们能战胜痛苦吗

Can we beat pain

通过重新定义它？第三步，直面你的恐惧。

by reframing it? Step three, face your fears.

为我们所有人解锁这些益处的关键，似乎在于找到舒适区的边缘。

The key to unlocking these benefits for all of us seems to be finding the edge of our comfort zone.

这会很可怕。非常紧张刺激。

It's gonna be scary. It's intense.

我们真正见证的，是通过任何挑战性经历所带来的成长。

The growth that occurs through any challenging experience is really what we see.

克里斯·海姆斯沃斯主演的《无限潜能：即刻优质生活》，现已在Disney+和Hulu上线。

Chris Hemsworth stars in Limitless, Live Better Now, now streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

表演时间到了。

It's showtime.

感谢你花时间处理那件事。现在回到讨论上来。我们目前应该做出哪些调整？如果有人正在听，他们会尽可能去做检测。如果因为某些原因无法做到——比如他们不住在美国，因为我们的服务尚未覆盖国际范围。

Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion. What are the shifts we should be making right now? If someone's listening, they're gonna go get the test if they can. If they can't because you know, for whatever reason they don't live in The States because we're not available internationally.

不，还没有，我们正在

No, not yet, we're

处理 是的，还没，我的评论区常有这种声音——比如“嘿Jay，我们在这儿呢”。我认识很多英国、欧洲的朋友，还有澳大利亚等地的人都很关注。但既然你已拿到结果，知道问题所在，对于那些目前没有严重症状但想确保健康的人，你会建议他们从哪里开始？

getting Yeah, not yet, yeah I get a lot of that in my comments Like hey Jay, like we're here, yeah. There's a lot of people I know in UK and Europe who really and want Australia and other places. But you've got your results, you know what's going on, where would you encourage people to begin if they don't have anything serious right now but they wanna make sure

他们想正确处理这事对吧？听着，我不是要推销什么，但我认为做个短期重置很有效。我的思路是：如何让身体恢复到出厂设置？婴儿刚出生时通常都是完美的。

they get this right? Yeah. Mean, I'm not trying to sell anything here but I I think doing a, a short term reset is powerful. The way I think about it is how how do you turn your body back to its original factory settings? You know, when a baby comes out, it's generally perfect.

对吧？他们漂亮健康，所有机能都正常运转。

Right? It's beautiful. It's healthy. Everything works. Right?

然后身体开始出问题。想象一下，就像电脑故障——今天我WhatsApp出问题，重启就好了。人体要怎么“重启”呢？这就是我提出的“十日排毒饮食法”的核心。

And then things break down. But imagine it, like, if your computer is, you know, not working or it's on the fritz and, my WhatsApp wasn't working today and I just had to reboot it, right, or reboot my computer. How do you do that with your body? Mhmm. And that's really what the this dietary change that I call the ten day detox diet is about.

它能让身体真正回归出厂设置。对多数人会产生显著改变。如果没效果，通常意味着存在更严重问题——比如莱姆病、霉菌毒素暴露、环境毒素等需要专门治疗的情况。但对大多数人而言，只需简单十天：充足睡眠、戒除有害物质、散步、呼吸练习、彻底改变饮食，你会惊叹效果。

It's about really putting your body back to its original factory settings. For most people, it will create a dramatic shift. If you don't get better from it, it's usually because there's something more serious like you have Lyme disease, you have mold exposure that's causing toxicity, you have maybe environmental toxins or Lyme disease or something serious, that needs another treatment. But for most people, just a simple ten day approach to resetting your system by getting enough sleep, by cutting out the bad stuff, by taking walks, by doing a little breathing exercises, and radically changing your diet, you go, oh my god.

在家就能完成。这不是...

You could do that at home. This isn't don't

本质上就是

it's basically

负担不起去静修的费用，否则你可以

Can't afford to go on a retreat or you could

做到100%。大多数人都在家里做。所以它实际上不会让你多花任何额外费用。也许还会让你花得更少，因为你不用买那些多余的垃圾东西。

do A at 100%. Most people do it at home. And it's so it's it's it doesn't really cost you any extra. Maybe it'll cost you less because you're not buying all these extra crap.

所以如果你进行十天重置。

And so if you Ten day reset.

十天。承诺去做。如果你尝试了，身体就会有一种想要健康的渴望。而疾病只是你的身体在应对极其糟糕的环境时做出的最佳尝试。改变环境，也就是你接触的东西、你的饮食、生活方式，然后你就会改变。

Ten days. Commit. And if you try it, it's like the body just has this desire to be healthy. And illness is just your body's best attempt to deal with a really shitty set of circumstances. Change the circumstances, meaning what you're exposed to, your diet, lifestyle, and then you'll change.

你知道，因为已经确定93%的健康问题并非遗传所致。它们来自我们共同的环境，我们称之为暴露组，而非基因组。暴露组顾名思义，就是我们接触到的一切。包括我们吃的食物、运动、睡眠、压力、肠道微生物群、环境毒素，还有我们的思想。

You know, because 93% that's been determined of our health issues are not genetic. They're from our collective environment, what we call the exposome, not our genome. Our exposome is what it sounds like. It's everything that we're exposed to. It's what we eat, it's movement, it's sleep, it's stress, it's our gut microbiome, it's environmental toxins, it's our thoughts.

我们的思想实际上会实实在在地改变我们的生物学。它是你两耳之间最大的药房。所有这些你都能控制，这正是让我感到兴奋的地方。关键在于被赋予力量去真正做出这些改变。而人们却因此承受了太多痛苦。

Our thoughts actually transform our biology, literally. It's the biggest pharmacy between your ears. And so all those things you have control over, which is what's so exciting to me. It's about being empowered to actually make those changes. And and people just suffer so badly.

我是说，我可能告诉过你，我和里克·沃伦在这个教堂做了一个基于信仰的健康计划，通过这个计划，我们在一年内让15,000人减掉了25万磅体重。那些健康状况发生巨大变化的人数之多，真是令人惊叹。有一位女士曾多次进出精神病院，服用过你能想象到的所有精神类药物，从抗抑郁药到抗焦虑药再到抗精神病药。她当时几乎要自杀。她体重也超标，后来她改变了饮食方式。

I mean, I think I told you maybe that I did a a program with a faith based wellness program with Rick Warren at this church where we got a quarter million pounds lost out for 15,000 people in a year by doing a a faith based wellness program. And the amount of people that had radical changes in their health was just so remarkable. This one woman had been in and out of psychiatric hospitals, she'd been on every psychiatric medication you could imagine from antidepressants to anti anxiety medications to antipsychotic medications. She was, you know, about to commit suicide. You know, she she was also overweight and she did this dietary change.

基本上，我做的这个基于信仰的健康计划包括了十天排毒饮食。然后她说，我完全康复了。我不再抑郁了。我停掉了所有药物。我感觉很好。

Essentially, I did the faith based wellness program included the the ten day detox diet. And she's like, I'm completely cured. Like, I don't have any depression. I'm off all my medications. I feel good.

这怎么可能呢？而且，你知道，杰，还有一点。现在有太多精神疾病了。抑郁症、焦虑症、双相情感障碍，还有更严重的，比如重度强迫症甚至精神分裂症。这些问题实际上往往是生理问题，而不总是情绪问题。

How is that possible? And, you know, that's the other thing, Jay. You know, there's so much mental illness. There's so much depression, anxiety, bipolar disease, you know, more serious things like severe OCD or even schizophrenia. These things actually are physiological problems or not always emotional problems.

所以有时候确实是情绪问题，比如配偶去世了，你抑郁了。是的，我理解。但很多时候，对很多人来说，其实是有生理原因的。我们谈论心身效应，也就是心理如何影响身体，这种影响是深远的。

So sometimes they are, like, you know, your spouse dies, you're depressed. Yeah. I get it. You know, but a lot of times, and for many people, there there's actually a physiological reason. You know, we talk about the mind body effect, which is how the mind affects the body, which is profound.

但还存在身心相互影响的现象。

But there's also the body mind effect.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以如果你缺乏镁元素，可能会感到焦虑，对吧？缺乏维生素D或欧米伽3会导致抑郁或注意力缺陷障碍。叶酸或B12不足也会引发抑郁。我的意思是，这些都是可以修复的问题——就像我曾深受重金属困扰那样。

So if you're magnesium deficient, you can be anxious. Right? If you're vitamin d deficient or omega three deficient, you can be depressed or you can have ADT. If you don't have enough folate or b twelve, you can get depressed. I mean, are things that you can fix if you have heavy metals, which I did.

重金属会引发抑郁、失眠和焦虑。我现在治疗的一个小女孩患有严重强迫症，结果发现是链球菌感染引发了攻击大脑的自身免疫反应，导致她出现抽搐等强迫行为——这些我们原以为是心理问题。所以我常自称'偶然的精神科医生'，因为当我治疗人们身体问题时，他们的精神症状也会改善。为此我写了《超脑解决方案》这本书，讲如何通过调理身体来修复大脑。你可以直接把书从桌上拿走。

It can cause you to have depression and insomnia and anxiety. I mean, I'm treating a little girl right now who's got severe OCD and it turned out she had a strep infection that turns into this autoimmune reaction against your brain that's causing her to have OCD behaviors like tics and weird things that we think is psychological. So I I think, you know, I I I often call myself the accidental psychiatrist because I I was treating people for all these physical things and then these psychiatric problems would get better. And I wrote a book about it called The Ultramind Solution, How to Fix Your Broken Brain by Fixing Your Body First. And and you can just get that off the table.

当然，如果存在更深层创伤，我认为当前代谢精神病学、营养精神病学以及迷幻药治疗的革命，将长远改变精神健康领域的格局。

And then, know, if you have other deeper trauma or things, yeah, think the revolution now in in in metabolic psychiatry, nutritional psychiatry, and then psychedelic medicine and psychiatry are I think gonna change the face of mental healthcare for the long term.

完全同意。在治疗自身免疫疾病时，你发现人们常犯哪些错误？我们有哪些认知误区？

Absolutely. What are what are some of the mistakes you see people making in curing autoimmune diseases? What are some of the mistakes? What are the things we get wrong?

最大错误是不治疗根本原因。我在克利夫兰诊所时有个50岁的商业教练患者，她浑身是病——我戏称自己是'全科医生'，因为我总接手问题成堆的病人。她有肠易激、胃反流、偏头痛、抑郁、糖尿病前期...

Well, because they don't treat the cause is the biggest thing. You know, I had a patient when I was at Cleveland Clinic who was a business coach, she was 50 years old, And she had a lot of problems. And I jokingly call myself a holistic doctor because I take care of people with a whole list of problems, you know. And she had everything, you know. She had irritable bowel, she had reflux, she had migraines, she was depressed, she had prediabetes.

还患有可怕的银屑病关节炎。皮肤布满又厚又痒的红色鳞状斑块，关节也受侵蚀。尽管她花五万美元用药，找顶级专家看神经科（偏头痛）、精神科（抑郁）、胃肠科（肠道）、内分泌科（糖尿病前期）、风湿科（关节炎）和皮肤科，病情却未好转。

And she had this horrible autoimmune disease called psoriatic arthritis. You know, the heartbreak of psoriasis, these horrible, thick, scaly, red, itchy plaques on your skin, and it also can attack your joints. And it was attacking your joints. She was on a drug and she was seen by the top doctors and she was on a drug that cost $50,000 and it wasn't really fixing her. And she was seeing the top specialists for neurology for her migraines, psychiatry for depression, gastroenterology for her gut, an endocrinologist for her prediabetes, a rheumatologist for her arthritis, her skin issues, dermatology.

我说：'瞧，你每个器官都有专属医生，用这么多药却不见好，只是勉强控制症状。或许我们该考虑根治病因。'由于她长期服用抗生素治疗关节炎的类固醇，肠道已严重受损——出现反酸、餐后腹胀等各种消化问题。

I was like, right, she had a doctor for every inch of her. And I said, gee, you know, you're getting all these medications. You're not really better. You're mitigating your symptoms a little bit. Maybe we think about treating the root cause.

于是我给她抗生素清除肠道有害菌，又因类固醇和抗生素导致真菌过度繁殖，追加了抗真菌治疗。

And so because she had so many digestive symptoms and she'd been on loss of antibiotics, she'd been on loss of steroids for her arthritis, that really messed up the gut too. I said, you have reflux, you have bloating after eating, you have all these gut issues. Why don't we treat your gut? So I basically gave her an antibiotic to kill off all these bad bugs that were in her gut. And I gave her an antifungal because she had a lot of fungal overgrowth from all the steroids and the antibiotics to kill off the bad bugs.

我给她服用了一些益生菌。基本上让她进行了十天排毒饮食，去除了所有引发炎症的食物，戒掉了糖分和加工食品。六周后她回来时说，我全好了。我说，你什么意思？她说，我停掉了所有药物。

I gave her some probiotics. I put her on the ten day detox diet basically, got rid of all the inflammatory foods, got rid the sugar, processed food. She comes back in six weeks and she's like, I'm all better. I mean, what do you mean? She says, well, stopped all my medication.

我可没让你那么做。她说，不是的。我只是感觉太好了，就停掉了所有药。我不再偏头痛了。

Well, I didn't tell you to do that. She's like, no. I I just was feeling so good. I stopped everything. I don't have migraines.

我不抑郁了。瘦了20磅。皮肤变好了。关节不疼了。胃酸反流也消失了。

I'm not depressed. My lost 20 pounds. My skin's cleared. My joints don't hurt. My reflux is gone.

肠易激综合征也没了。所以如果你治本——这个案例中就是她的肠道问题——我只是给了她...对，我只是给了她'释放饮食法'，还有抗生素和抗真菌药。给了益生菌、维生素D、少量鱼油。六周后她不仅感觉好转，还相当于为医疗系统省下了数万美元。

My irritable bowel is gone. And so if you treat the root, which was her gut in this case, I just gave her yeah. I just gave her the unleash diet and I gave her the antibiotics and the antifungals. I gave her probiotics, vitamin d, some fish oil, not a lot. And in six weeks, not only was she feeling better, but she like saved the healthcare system, you know, tens of thousands of dollars.

是啊。听起来简直像魔法，听你说这些会让人觉得——但这不是魔法，只是我们被训练得认为现行医疗体系才合理。有趣的是，我们居然更相信人造药片能治愈身体，而不是祖先世代赖以生存的东西

Yeah. It's it's almost like it sounds like magic when and you're listening to you go, yeah, no, it's not because we've just been trained to believe that this way makes sense. Yeah. Well, it's it's it's funny, we're we're more convinced that a manufactured pill will solve our body than the things that our ancestors have lived off

没错。

That's right.

千百年来都是如此。

For years and years and years.

完全正确。如果你不知道如何激活身体的自愈系统，那确实需要药物。Jay，最让我兴奋的是，我们正处在医学革命中，终于开始理解根本病因——这些都在科学文献里，但要渗透到临床实践需要几十年。改变医学教育、医保报销、医生行医方式就像...就像人类曾坚信地球是平的。这种范式转变将彻底颠覆我们对疾病的认知。

That's right. So if you if you if you don't know how to turn on the body's healing system, then yeah, you need medication. And and what's so exciting to me, Jay, is like we're in this revolution in medicine right now where we're finally understanding root causes and it's in the scientific literature, but it takes decades for that to get into clinical practice. I mean, to change medical education, to change reimbursement, to change how doctors practice is just such a it's like it's like we're all walking around thinking the earth is flat when it's really round. And so this paradigm shift is is such a profound change in how we think about disease that it's gonna revolutionize everything we do.

现在借助功能性医疗等技术，普通人也能接触这些理念。科技让我们能获取海量世界科学文献——AI五秒就能读完，还能综合分析。再结合个人健康数据...

And it's and it's only now be accessible to people through things like function because we're able to through technology, be able to get the amazing amount of world scientific literatures. You know, AI can read it in like five seconds. Right? And it can synthesize it. And then it's your own personal health dataset.

不再是医生用堪萨斯州70公斤白人男性的研究结果来治疗印度裔患者或越南人。我们本应实施精准医疗、个性化医疗——医学就该因人而异，应该具有预测性、预防性和主动性，而不是像现在这样被动应对。

It's not like your, you know, doctor's treating you based on a study that was on seventy kilogram white men from Kansas, which doesn't apply to an Indian guy, you know, or somebody who's in like, you know, Vietnam. Right? And and so, basically, we are treating to the masses where we should be treating to the individual. We call this precision medicine, personalized medicine. But medicine should be personalized, it should be predictive, it should be preventive, and it should be proactive that you actually don't have to react like we do in medicine, but be proactive.

这确实是我毕生的工作，不仅在于帮助重症患者逆转病情，更在于早期干预。正如本杰明·富兰克林所说，一分的预防胜过十分的治疗。我能提供十分的治疗，但预防显然更为轻松。

And and that's really, you know, my life's work is not only, you know, taking people with very serious illnesses and reversing them, but actually getting people earlier. I mean, Benjamin Franklin said it. Right? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And so I can give a pound of cure, but it's a lot harder than an ounce of prevention.

什么

What

当前在医学和功能医学前沿最让你兴奋的是什么？是人工智能吗？还是其他领域？

are you most excited about at the forefront of medicine and functional medicine at the moment? Yeah. Is it AI? Is it Yeah.

要知道，人体内有370亿次化学反应，复杂程度堪比火箭物理学——虽然难以理解，但终究是可认知的范畴。

Well, you know, I said to you like there's 37,000,000,000 chemical reactions in the body. It's the body is so complex. It's it's physics is complex. About how complicated a rocket is. Like like, can't even understand that but that's a knowable thing.

科学家和物理学家能破解难题，送人登月或像马斯克那样建造火星飞船。但人体的复杂程度是无限的。我们却用割裂的视角看待——每个器官对应不同专家，但人体本不是这样设计的。

Right? Scientists and physicists can figure it out and then send a guy to the moon or build a spaceship that goes to Mars like Elon Musk. But, like, the body is so infinitely complex. And we we see it in this reductionist way where every different organ has a different specialist and the body has all these different parts. But that's not how we're designed.

所有器官都处于生态系统中，彼此关联。我们是由无数交互网络构成的整体有机体。功能医学不是检测手段、保健品或新专科，而是基于根源和人体系统的元认知框架——追问'为何患病'而非'患何病'，创造健康而非治疗疾病。当健康建立时，疾病自会消退。

Everything's in the ecosystem. Everything's connected. You know, we're we're one whole web like organism where where everything's interacting with everything else all the time. And and so that paradigm of thinking that way, and functional medicine isn't a test, it's not a supplement, it's not a new specialty, it's literally a meta framework for thinking about the nature of health and disease based on root causes and based on the body's system, based on asking the question why not what disease do you have and what drug do I get, but why do I have this and and how do I create health, not treat disease? And when I create health, disease goes away as a side effect.

这种科学范式正在兴起。过去三十年这项工作令我沮丧——就像试图说服人们地球是圆的而非平的。

And so that scientific paradigm is is now emerging. And before, it it, you know, you know, it was frustrating for me doing this work for thirty years because, you know, it just it was hard to convince people like, look. The earth is round. Like, no. No.

类风湿性关节炎确实存在，但我们的认知方式完全错误。

It's flat. See, right there, it's flat. And they go, there's that disease and it's real. Like, yeah, you know, rheumatoid arthritis is a thing, but it's not how we think about it. It we're thinking about it the wrong way.

如今AI和大数据合成能力让我振奋。仅人体微生物组就有10万PB数据（1PB=100万GB），而普通电脑仅4TB（约1000GB）。面对如此庞大的生物复杂性，我们需要AI技术来解析个体健康薄弱点并制定优化方案。

And so I'm so excited now because of AI and and and the ability to synthesize massive datasets. I mean, you have a 100,000 petabytes of data in your microbiome. A petabyte is a million gigabytes. K. Your computer has four terabytes maybe, right, which is a thousand gigabytes or something.

这就是我65岁仍投身初创企业的原因——通过技术绘制个性化健康路线图，这正是最令我激动的方向。

I mean, it's just such a massive amount of information. That's just in your microbiome. And so you your body is so complex, and we need technology and AI to help us start to understand that and then apply it to you as an individual and then help create a roadmap for looking at where your weak points are and how do you correct those and then how do you optimize. And so that's what I'm so excited about. That's that's why at 65, I'm like doing a startup.

我是说，我当时和其中一位投资者在一个小组讨论上，她就像有人问，你们是怎么决定投资哪些公司的？他们说，我们投资的是创始人。我就问，那你们有没有投资过已经享受医疗保险的创始人？你懂我意思吧？这简直...

I mean, I was I was with, one of the, one of the investors on a panel and I'm like she's like somebody said, well, how do you how do you, figure out what companies to invest in? They go, well, we invest in the founders. I'm like, well, have you ever had a founder that's been on Medicare before? You know? That's

太搞笑了。

so funny.

然后我就想，我算什么...我是说，我只希望能活到一百多岁，但我做这些是因为不想看到这么多人受苦。他们本不必承受这些。我每天都会接到朋友的电话，问能不能帮帮这个，帮帮那个，但没人能帮到我。我就想，我只是一个人啊。就算我余生每天工作24小时，也无法减轻这世上苦难的万分之一。

And I'm like, what am I I mean, like, I only hope to live to be 100 and something, but, you know, I'm doing this because I don't wanna see so many people suffering. They don't have to suffer. And I get these calls every day from friends and would you help this one, they help that one, no one can help me. I'm like, I'm only one guy. I could like work twenty four hours a day for the rest of my life and I wouldn't make a dent in the amount of suffering there is in the world.

但想象一下，如果我们能把上千名甚至十万名掌握未来医学范式的医生装进你口袋，让他们通过日常实时指导来陪伴你、训练你、支持你。这就是功能医学想要实现的目标。我对此感到无比兴奋，因为这在过去是无法实现的——我们无法让单个医生理解人类生物学如此惊人的复杂性，这太难了。我能快速识别模式，几分钟内就知道该怎么做。

But imagine if we could put, you know, a thousand or a 100,000 doctors in your pocket that are trained on the future paradigm of medicine and make it accessible to you in real time on a day to day basis to guide you and coach you and support you. That's what functional health is aiming to do. And I'm so excited about it because it's like, wow, we couldn't do this before. We couldn't take this amazing complexity of human biology and help a single doctor understand it's just hard. Like I I see the patterns, I can look at something quickly and I know in a few minutes like what to do.

但这仅仅是因为我看过数万名患者和数百万份生物标记物数据才能建立这些关联。而相比技术即将实现的能力，我还差得远。

But it's it's only because I've seen tens of thousands of patients and millions and millions of biomarkers that I can make those connections. And I'm not that good compared to like what technology is gonna be able to do.

嗯。你希望现在的医生被教授什么知识？

Yeah. What do what do you wish doctors were taught today?

天啊。别让我...

Oh my god. Don't get

开始吐槽。

me started.

我女儿刚从医学院毕业。她非常优秀，即将成为骨科医生——我觉得这很棒，因为社会需要这个。比如你髋部骨折了就需要换髋关节，这种急性医疗是我们真正擅长的领域。但她没学过营养学，这就...

My daughter just graduated from medical school. She's brilliant and she she's now going to be an orthopedic surgeon, which I think is great because you need that. Like, you know, if you break your hip, you need new hip. So that's a kind of medicine that I think is we're really good at is acute care medicine. But what she didn't learn about was nutrition, which okay.

我们国家正面临慢性病 epidemic，主要诱因是食物，主要治疗手段也可以是食物，然而医生对食物一无所知。对吧？所以营养学...

We have a chronic disease epidemic in this country. It's caused primarily by food. It can be cured mostly by food, and yet doctors know nothing about food. Right? So nutrition.

没学过微生物组。没学过环境毒素。没学过如何创造健康。没学过身体的网络与系统。没学过线粒体。

Didn't learn about the microbiome. Didn't learn about environmental toxins. Didn't learn about how to create health. Didn't learn about the body's networks and systems. Didn't learn about mitochondria.

我是说，没错，她第一学期确实学过克雷布斯循环和生物化学，但完全不懂如何诊断线粒体问题——那可是我们的能量工厂，维系着全身机能运转。这些恰恰是医生们从未接触过的领域。他们没学过如何优化免疫功能，没学过通过修复肠漏来正确治疗肠道问题。功能医学框架里这么多重要内容，他们竟一无所知。

I mean, yes, she got or like her first, you know, semester, she learned about the Krebs cycle and biochemistry, but didn't understand how to diagnose people with mitochondrial issues, which is our energy powerhouse and how how everything works in our body. So those are things that doctors don't learn anything about. They learn about how to optimize your immune function. They learn about how to treat gut issues in the right way by fixing a leaky gut. So there's so many areas that that are part of the framework of functional medicine that they don't learn anything about.

是啊。难怪当你去描述身体不适时...确实...你根本得不到需要的信息。

Yeah. So no wonder when you go and talk about how you're feeling Yeah. You're not getting the information that you need.

没错。你去和医生说这里不舒服那里难受，他们只会说检查结果正常，验血报告没问题——因为他们做的检测项目极其有限。

No. I mean, you know, you go, doctor, you know, I feel this and that and other thing. And they go, well, you know, I did your exam. That's okay. Your lab test look okay because they do a very limited set.

然后告诉你'没事，回家吃百忧解吧'。但真相只有两种：要么是你胡思乱想，要么是医生漏诊了。十有八九是他们漏诊，因为他们的思维模式...

And, you know, you're fine. Just go home and take Prozac, you know. But there there are only one or two things that's true. One, either you're crazy and making it up or your doctor's missing something. And nine times out of ten, they're missing something because they don't know how to think.

他们只会用割裂的还原论看待人体，但现实并非如此。我们是动态的生态系统，所有要素都在实时交互影响。作为医者甚至普通人，该如何理解身体运作？说实话，绝大多数人根本不懂如何让身体更高效运转。

They don't know how to think about the human body except in a very reductionist way, and it's just not how things are. You know, we we are a dynamic ecosystem, and everything is interacting with everything else in real time and changing. And how do you play with that? How do you, as a as a as a practitioner or even as an individual, learn how your body works. I mean, most of us have no clue how our bodies work and how to create a better functioning body.

我们对宠物的照顾都比对自己健康上心。你会给狗喂巨无霸配可乐薯条吗？再加个奶昔？

You know, we take better care of our animals than we do our dog of our health. Right? I mean, you wouldn't feed your dog a Big Mac fries and a coke, would you? Definitely. And a milkshake?

当然不会。但这些我们却喂给孩子吃。对吧？

No. So we give that to our kids. Yeah. Right?

作为在英国国民医疗体系下成长，又移居到以私立医疗为主的美国的人——据我所知这里几乎没什么真正可及的医疗服务——你认为美国医疗体系最需要改革什么？

As someone who grew up in London, England and had the National Healthcare Service and then you moved to The United States and of course most of it's private Yeah. There's not really any healthcare available as far as I know, you What do you think The US healthcare system needs to be focused on?

百分百同意。其实我很振奋，现在正与联邦医保和国立卫生研究院合作推进改革——他们态度非常开放，迫切希望转变医疗观念。要知道在这个国家，我们连获得优质医疗的渠道都没有。

Yeah. A 100%. Well, I'm I'm excited. I mean, I'm working right now with Medicare and with the NIH on how do how do things need to change because they're very open and they're very interested in in changing the way we look at things. And I think, you know, the even having access to good health care, which we don't in this country.

我是说，在英国，我们有NHS（国家医疗服务体系），这很棒，但你知道，也许质量并不总是那么好。现实是，你大部分的健康问题其实并不发生在医生的办公室里。80%到90%的健康取决于你能掌控的事情——它发生在你的厨房里，发生在你玩耍、吃饭、祈祷和工作的地方。

I mean, in The UK, have the NHS, the National Health Service is great, but, know, maybe the quality isn't always as good. The reality is that, you know, most of your health is not happening in the doctor's office. 80 to 90% of it happens with things that you can have control over. It happens in your kitchen. It happens, you know, where you play and eat and pray and work.

健康就诞生在这些地方。我妻子现在正在哥伦比亚大学攻读公共卫生硕士，她兴奋地告诉我，她正在学习关于疾病真正驱动因素的内容。大约80%-90%的因素是医生无法控制的，而是取决于你生活的环境和每天的选择。这些方面其实并不需要医疗系统的介入。

That's where health happens. I mean, my wife's now, studying at Columbia for her master's in public health and she's just so excited telling me that how she's learning about how they're talking about the real drivers of disease. And it's like 8090% is not stuff that the doctor has control over. It's it's it's the environment that you live in and it's your choices every day. And so those things you don't really need healthcare for.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以我认为，如果我们能建立一个激发人们关注这些方面的健康体系，那么大多数时候你就不需要医生了。医生应该专注于急性医疗——比如我之前做了背部手术，感谢上帝有人懂得处理脊柱感染、植入器械、重建我的脊椎。但当我问他‘该如何康复并变得比之前更强壮’时...

And so I think if we can build a health system that activates people around that, then you won't need the doctor most of the time. Then they're there for acute care medicine, you know, if you like I had back surgery, thank God there's some guy who knows how to deal with a spine infection and can put in hardware and like, you know, kind of build my backup. Great. Thank God. But, you know, but if I if I said to him like, what do I do to recover and become stronger than I was before?

他就说‘不知道，做做物理治疗或者改善饮食吧’

He's like, I don't know, just do physical therapy or eat better or

嗯，这回答很棒。

Yeah, it's a great answer.

很有帮助。

Helpful.

确实很棒的回答。我们该如何让超加工食品制造商对他们在食品中添加过量糖分、乳化剂和不明物质的行为承担更多责任？

Really great answer. How do we hold ultra processed food manufacturers more accountable for getting away with putting excess sugars, emulsifiers, unidentifiable objects into our food?

对，好问题。我们国家的监管体系一直比较宽松，目前允许使用的食品添加剂约有1万种，而欧洲只有400种左右。他们对超加工食品的监管标准与我们截然不同。

Yeah. Yeah. Good question. I mean, think, you know, we've had a pretty lax system regulations country and, you know, we have I think, 10,000 chemicals that are allowed in our food here, and Europe is about 400 chemicals. And and they go through a very different standard of regulation in terms of ultra processed food.

欧洲对转基因生物、除草剂等许多方面限制非常严格，而这些在美国都没有。不过情况正在改变，MAHA运动兴起让人们开始觉醒。前几天我和好友杰森·卡普（Huge巧克力创始人）在一起，他作为家乐氏的股东写了一封措辞严厉的公开信，指出在美国生产的Froot Loops含有的色素和化学物质会导致儿童多动症或免疫系统问题，而这些成分在欧洲是被禁用的。

And they they are very restrict restrictive around GMO and around herbicides and lots of things that we don't do here. And I think, you know, that's changing. There's this whole MAHA movement, people are waking up and, you know, was with my friend a couple days ago, Jason Karpu, who was really founded Huge Chocolate, people like Huge Chocolate. And, he's been was very vociferous writing a letter as a shareholder of Kellogg's to the company saying, you have Froot Loops that you make in America that have all these dyes and chemicals that are known to cause hyperactivity or immune issues or other problems in kids. And in Europe, they don't allow it.

你们用蓝莓之类的天然色素制作同样的水果麦圈，但他们基本上无视了他。后来我朋友Vaani Hari一行人去了密歇根州巴特尔克里克市，在2024年10月发起抗议。最终这周，家乐氏同意将彻底移除那些有害成分。

You make the same Froot Loops but with natural colorings like from blueberries or whatever. And basically, they were ignoring him. And then my friend, Vaani Hari, they all went to Battle Creek, Michigan, and they had a protest in the fall in October '24. And finally, this week, Kellogg's agreed they're gonna actually take all that crap out.

哇。

Wow.

是的。FDA现在表示正与食品公司合作，通过自愿或强制方式让它们去除食品添加剂和人工色素。

Yeah. And, you know, the FDA, has now said they're they're working with food companies to either voluntarily or mandatorily have them remove food additives and colors and dyes.

太棒了。

That's brilliant.

我运营着一个叫'食品改革运动'的非营利组织，还写过《食品改革》这本书。

I mean, I've I've been I have a nonprofit called the Food Fix Campaign. I wrote a book called Food Fix.

我记得。

I remember.

明年二月将出版新书《食品改革·无删减版》，主要探讨如何从农田到餐桌解决这个问题，以及需要哪些法规。过去五年我通过非营利组织推进这项工作，成效惊人。我在华盛顿的得力助手如今已成为西弗吉尼亚州州长夫人——该州第一夫人。

The a new one's coming out called Food Fix Uncensored next February. And it basically talks about how this problem needs to get fixed from field to the fork and what regulations need to happen. But this I've been working with my nonprofit for the last five years, and it's been amazing. And the woman who was my key person, who's my seeing eye dog in Washington, is now the governor wife of West Virginia. She's the first lady of West Virginia.

在她的推动下，西弗吉尼亚成为首个禁止食品染料的州。他们还获得了SNAP豁免权，限制食品券购买汽水和某些垃圾食品。全美已有30多个州掀起类似改革浪潮。

And that was the first state because of her to ban food dyes. Wow. And then they also got snap waivers, which means they are going to limit what you can purchase with food stamps to not be allowed to buy soda or certain kinds of junk food. And this is happening across the country. There's like over 30 plus states where now there's there's uprisings.

我现在住在德克萨斯州，卫生与公众服务委员会主席Colgors参议员是我的播客粉丝。她深受启发后提交了SB 25号法案：限制校园食品添加剂、规定医生营养教育、成立慢性病营养咨询小组。该法案已在参众两院通过并由州长签署。

And I'm living in Texas right now and the this woman, senator Colgors, is the head of the Health and Human Services Committee. She listened to my podcast. She was a huge fan. And she got so excited about this that she introduced a bill called SB 25 in Texas that limited the crap in the food, that limited crap in schools, that mandates nutrition education for doctors, that starts a chronic nutrition advisory group. And it passed the senate.

我曾在听证会上作证。这场变革运动正在兴起——我从未想过有生之年能看到这种转变。食品公司虽有意向善，但因彼此竞争无人敢单独行动，否则会被对手抢占市场。

It passed the house there, and it got signed by the governor into law. And I I testified at the at the hearing. And so there's this movement happening now, which I never thought would happen in my lifetime that there's a shift. And I think the food companies wanna do the right thing, but they're they're all in competition with each other. So no one company can act independently because their competitors will eat their lunch.

所以实际上，现在这件事正在全国范围内发生，他们虽然拼命反抗、百般阻挠，但变革终将到来。新的膳食指南即将发布——我曾参与其顾问工作——想到能真正为人们的饮食选择提供指导，这让我非常振奋。食品标签也在改革中，我正与FDA合作推进此事。

So literally and so they they now that this is happening at a nationwide level, they're they're they're fighting and they're kicking and screaming, but it's gonna happen. And the new dietary guidelines are gonna come out, which I've helped advise on. And and that is really exciting to me to actually have something out there that's gonna help guide people on what to eat. Food labeling is changing. I'm working with the FDA on food labeling.

希望我们在食品营销方面也能取得进展，比如

Hopefully, we can make progress on food marketing, you know, like

这可是个大问题。

That's a big one.

就像在欧洲，如果食品含有人工色素或可能危害儿童的成分，就必须标明'这对儿童有害'——比如食用可能导致多动症等。食品公司因此不得不调整配方。食品营销是行为的重要驱动力，这些公司每年投入130亿美元推销垃圾食品。

Know, like like in Europe, if if stuff has some dye in it or that's gonna cause problem with kids, it'll say, you know, this is bad for your kid. And if it eat if your kid eats it, they'll get ADD and whatever, hyperactivity. And and so the food companies don't want that, so they change their formulations. So food marketing is a big big driver of behavior. And these companies know and they spend $13,000,000,000 marketing junk food every year.

解决方法很多：虽然第一修正案可能限制广告禁令，但可以像药品那样强制警示；可以取消食品营销支出的税收抵扣；还可以通过多种方式施压。改革医学院教育同样重要，因为医生能更深度参与其中。

And there's a lot of ways to fix that. You know, the First Amendment might prohibit us from limiting the advertising, but they could have warnings like they do in drugs. They could, you know, prevent them from being having a tax deduction for spending all that money on food marketing. And there's a lot of ways to put pressure. Changing medical school education, also important, because I think doctors are more engaged in this.

这就像九头蛇需要多管齐下——既需政府多领域政策配合，也需消费者在收银台前用选择投票。马克，我们完全可以用餐叉来表决。

So it's it's a it's a multi headed hydra that needs multiple solutions across a lot of government policies and also people making different choices at the checkout counter. Can vote with your fork. Mark,

你能挺过来我真是太感激了。

I am so grateful that you survived.

我也庆幸，还有太多工作要做呢。

Oh me too, I got more work to do.

是啊，你肩负重任。65岁仍像初创者般充满活力，这份事业从微观的个人层面到宏观的国家政策变革都至关重要，感谢你再次来节目分享。

Yeah, you've got so much work to do and I'm so thankful that you're doing it because you know, you are a startup founder at €65 You've got so much renewed energy and enthusiasm. Yeah. It's such important work and I'm so grateful that you came back on the show to share it because it's important work all the way from the micro level of the individual to the macro level of talking about government level change and national level change.

没错。

Yeah.