斯科特·加洛威：让你一直穷困潦倒的最大金钱错误！

有人说，斯科特，我不像你。

Some people say, Scott, I'm not like you.

我不想为工作而活，我想为生活而工作。

I don't want to live to work, I want to work to live.

好吧，但要诚实地与自己探讨你需要多少收入才能过上体面的生活。

Fine, but have an honest conversation with yourself around what you need to make to have a reasonable life.

如果你想住在洛杉矶并享受优质生活，你就必须赚大把的钱。

If you want to live in LA and you want to have a nice lifestyle, you just have to make a shit ton of money.

这就是现实。

That's just the reality.

但如果你说我不完全是为了工作，那也行。

But if you say I'm not all about work, then fine.

你想搬到圣克拉丽塔吗？

Do you want to move to Santa Clarita?

你想搬到河滨县吗？

Do you want to move to the Inland Empire?

你想搬到俄勒冈州的某个地方吗？

Do you want to move to somewhere in Oregon?

好吧，但你要和自己进行一次清醒的对话。

Fine, but have a sober conversation with yourself.

你的期望是什么？现实地说，你需要付出怎样的承诺和妥协才能实现目标？

What are your expectations, and realistically, what kind of commitment and trade off are you going to need to get there?

我告诉年轻人的是：你可以拥有一切，只是不能同时拥有。

What I tell young people is you can have it all, you just can't have it all at once.

我现在的生活非常平衡，环顾四周，我觉得你也是。

I have amazing balance right now, and looking around, I think you do.

但这是因为我二三十岁时几乎毫无平衡可言。

But that's because I had almost none in my twenties and thirties.

说实话，虽然我不太了解你，但我现在在洛杉矶的生活，在我二十多岁时甚至不知道它的存在——因为那时我只想着赚钱，而且我天赋异禀。

And I don't, you know, this whole life, I don't know much about you, but the life I lead now when I'm in LA, I didn't even know it existed in my twenties because I'm like, I need to make money and I'm exceptionally talented.

所以我唯一能掌控的就是我有多努力。

So the thing I can control is how hard I work.

这是无法回避的事实。

And there's no getting around it.

这会让你失去一些人际关系，让我失去了头发，失去了第一段婚姻，虽然听起来很粗俗，但这一切都值得，因为现在我有了孩子，年纪也大了，生活平衡多了。

It'll cost you some relationships, it cost me my hair, cost me my first marriage, and this sounds crass, but it was worth it because now that I have kids, now that I'm older, I have a lot of balance.

所以这是一次清醒的对话，是厨房内阁会议，是自我宽恕，是努力寻找自己擅长的事，包含很多方面。

So it's a sober conversation, it's a kitchen cabinet, it's forgiving yourself, it's trying to find something you're good at, it's a lot of things.

最重要的是，最重要的是，原谅你自己。

More than anything, more than anything, forgive yourself.

如果你二十多岁时诸事不顺，老板，那正是你该经历的阶段。

If things aren't working out in your 20s, boss, that's where you should be.

很少有人大学一毕业就能直接平步青云。

Very rarely do people come right out of college and go like this.

说得太好了，斯科特，这么多观点需要消化，感谢你给我们提供了这么多值得思考的角度。

Yeah, so well said, so much to unpack there, Scott, and thank you for kind of giving us so many points to check with.

我想问的第一个问题是，如今的年轻人还应该渴望拥有自己的房子吗？那个版本的美国梦是否已经破灭？

The first thing I want to ask you is, should younger people today even aspire to own a home, or is the American dream, that version of it, dead?

这要看具体情况。

It's situational.

首先，请记住

First off, keep in mind

‘美国梦’这个词是由全国房地产经纪人协会和房地产协会发明的，他们希望不断推高房价和佣金。

the term the American dream was invented by the National Realtors Association and the Real Estate Association that wants to keep pumping up the price and the commissions on homes.

如果你住在洛杉矶这样的地方——我认为所谓的‘收益率’，即租金与购房成本的比率——对大多数人来说，租房实际上在经济上更划算。

If you live in a place like Los Angeles, where I believe the quote unquote, the yield, that is the ratio, the cost to rent something relative to the price to buy it, it actually makes more financial sense for most people to rent here.

对纽约的大多数人来说，租房也更有意义。

Makes sense for most people in New York to rent.

你在圣

You're in St.

路易斯或密歇根州兰辛市，可能更值得尝试存钱买房，并利用首次购房者税收抵免等优惠政策。

Louis, you're in Lansing, Michigan, it probably makes sense to try and save some money and buy and take advantage of first time homebuyers credits, what have you.

所以你需要找一个——坦白说——如果你不擅长数学，就找个比你更懂数学的人问问：买房对我来说合理吗？

So you want to find someone who quite frankly, if you're not good at math, is better at math than you and say, does it make sense for me to buy a home?

因为你可能会过得更好。

Because you might be better off.

我的播客《愤怒的温和派》的联合主持人是一位非常成功的女性。

The co host of my podcast Raging Moderates is a very successful woman.

她的名字是杰西卡·塔洛夫。

Her name is Jessica Tarloff.

她是最受欢迎的有线新闻频道节目《五人组》中的民主党代表。

She's the Democrat on the most popular cable news channel show called The Five.

对吧？

Right?

这个节目是为共和党人和杰斯准备的。

It's for Republicans and Jess.

而且她收入相当可观。

And she makes really good money.

她丈夫的收入也非常高。

Her husband makes really good money.

他们决定不在纽约买房，因为他们认为把钱投入市场能带来更多财务保障。

And they've decided not to buy in New York because they think putting the money in the market will give them more financial security.

所以伟大和伟大的决策往往取决于他人。

So greatness and great decisions are in the agency of others.

我会和人交流，但别因为没房产就觉得自己失败，因为目前房地产占GDP比重和租金倍数都处于历史高位，意味着你绝不想成为房奴。

I would talk to people, but don't feel as if you're a failure if you don't own real estate because real estate right now as a percentage of GDP, as a multiple on rents, is at historic highs, meaning that you really don't want to be house poor.

你真的不该全押进去，就因为全国房地产经纪人协会告诉你没房子就是失败。

You really don't want to go all in because the National Realtors Association is telling you you're a failure if you don't own a home.

因为你最不想做的就是除了房子一无所有。

Cause the last thing you wanna do is just have no money for nothing else.

当市场回调时，你的房子可能还不抵贷款。

The market corrects and your house isn't worth the debt on it.

这会在情感上、财务上和信用评级方面造成毁灭性打击。

That is devastating emotionally and financially and from a credit standpoint.

所以这要看具体情况。

So it's situational.

与此同时，心理层面的收益确实存在，这是无法回避的。

At the same time, there's no getting around the psychic, there is some psychic income.

记得在我结婚前，我一直在考虑要与某人建立承诺关系。

I remember, you know, before I got married, I was thinking about I wanted to commit to somebody.

买房、养狗，这些都是情感上的承诺。

You buy a house, you get a dog, it's sort of these emotional commitments.

而且拥有房产确实会带来某种自豪感。

And also there is a certain pride of ownership.

我认为这要视具体情况而定。

I think it's situational.

取决于你的人生阶段、经济状况、所在城市，但买房本应是为生活锦上添花。

Where you are in life, how much money you have, the city you're in, but buying a home is meant to be an enhancement to your life.

这不是生死契约，也未必适合所有人。

It's not a suicide pact and it may not be right for everybody.

是的，我认为它作为象征给了人们追求的目标，对吧？

Yeah, I think what it gave people as a symbol was something to pursue, right?

我们开始讨论这种人生轨迹：上大学、拿学位、找工作、结婚、买房生子，这就像成为了人生支柱之一。现在如果抽掉这根支柱，人们几乎不知道该追求什么了，对吧？

We started talking about you go to college, you get a degree, you get a job, get married, you get a house, you have Like it became one of those tent pole And so now when you take it out, it's almost like what should people be pursuing, right?

如果你已经结婚，有份好工作，和伴侣一起生活。

If you got married, you got a good job, you're working, you're with your partner.

这几乎成了人们认为自己必须追求的东西。

It's almost like people think they have to pursue.

就像那种'必须生孩子'的默认观念一样。

It's almost like the assumption that you have to have kids.

这和'我们必须买房'的默认观念如出一辙。

It's the same assumption of, oh, well, we have to buy a house.

那么在财务安全方面，人们应该追求什么呢？

So what should people pursue instead financially when it comes to financial security?

这个目标我称之为'财富'。

The goal is what I'll call wealth.

目标不是变得富有。

The goal isn't to be rich.

富有是你看得见的，财富是你看不见的。

Rich is the things you see, wealth is what you don't see.

你应当追求的是财富或经济保障。

And your pursuit should be wealth or economic security.

这就是财富的本质。

And this is what wealth is.

财富意味着被动收入超过你的开支。

Wealth is having passive income that's greater than your burn.

举两个例子，我有个朋友在顶级投行做并购业务，根据市场情况年收入在300万到1000万美元之间。

Two examples, I have a buddy who runs M and A for a bulge bracket investment bank, makes between three and ten million dollars a year depending upon the market.

由于全是当期收入，在支付前妻赡养费、汉普顿豪宅和他认为应得的'宇宙主宰'生活方式后，他要交50%的税，几乎没存下什么钱。

Because it's all current income, he pays 50% taxes between his ex wife, his home in the Hamptons, and his master of the universe lifestyle that he feels he deserves, he hasn't saved a lot of money, and he spends most of it.

我亲眼所见——他经常彻夜难眠，担心这场盛宴何时终结。

And I know that firsthand, he has a lot of sleepless nights wondering what happens if the music stops.

他并不算真正富有。

He is not wealthy.

我父亲今年94岁，他领取皇家海军养老金、社会保障金，还拥有六台洗衣烘干机和拖车停车场，他拄着助行器去收钱，每年收入52,000美元。

My father, who is 94, between his pension from the Royal Navy, Social Security, and he owns six washer dryer machines and trailer parks, where he goes and collects the money with his walker, he makes $52,000 a year.

他每年花48,000美元。

He spends 48.

所以尽管他没有工作，他仍在存钱。

So he is saving money despite the fact that he's not working.

因此他的被动收入超过了支出。

So his passive income is greater than his burn.

他是富有的。

He is wealthy.

所以你要让自己走上致富之路。

So you want to put yourself on a track to being wealthy.

你要现实地说：我能控制自己的开销。

You want to say realistically, I can control how much I spend.

我一直在指导这对住在圣何塞的夫妇，他们都快60岁了。

I've been coaching this couple living in San Jose, and they're in their late 50s.

我经常谈论年轻人，而他们会说，斯科特，我们都快60岁了。

I talk a lot about young people and they say, Scott, we're in our late 50s.

我们该怎么办？

What do we do?

你们有多少钱？

How much money do you have?

你们的房子值多少钱？

What's your house worth?

等到他们65岁时，他们的被动收入将不足以维持现有生活方式。

And by the time they're 65, they're not going to have enough passive income to pay for their lifestyle.

我说，那我们就发挥自身优势吧。

I said, well, let's lean into our strengths here.

你们为什么住在圣何塞？

Why are you in San Jose?

他们回答说，我们一直住在这里。

And they said, well, we've always lived here.

我说，好吧，你的孩子们都搬走了。

I'm like, well, okay, your kids are gone.

你刚才提到每年去两次哥斯达黎加。

And you've just mentioned you go to Costa Rica twice a year.

为什么不试着减少40%的开支，搬到哥斯达黎加，减轻经济压力，并卖掉这里的房子呢？

Why wouldn't you try and cut your burn 40% and move to Costa Rica and take that economic pressure away and sell your house here.

我想你的孩子们会很喜欢去哥斯达黎加看望你的。

I think your kids would love to come visit you in Costa Rica.

所以问题在于，你要用基础数学和你真正需要的被动收入来规划一条道路，理想情况下是在40岁前实现，虽然通常做不到，但最迟必须在65或70岁前实现，因为经济焦虑的释放能让你专注于真正重要的事情——即深厚而有意义的人际关系。

So the question is put yourself on a path using basic math and what you really think you're going to need in terms of passive income such that at some point, ideally it's by the time you're 40, it's usually not, but it needs to be by the time you're 65 or 70, because that release of economic anxiety frees you up to focus on what is really important, and that is deep and meaningful relationships.

这就是为什么过去十年我比前四十五年人生幸福得多的原因——经济压力对我来说一直如影随形。

So the reason why I am so much happier over the last ten years than I was kind of the first forty five years of my life is that economic stress was always there for me.

我由一位单身移民母亲抚养长大，她一生都是个秘书，直至离世。

I was raised by a single immigrant mother who lived and died as secretary.

我总觉得有个幽灵如影随形地跟着我们，告诉我们因为没钱就不配拥有幸福。

I felt like there was a ghost following us around telling us we weren't worthy because we didn't have money.

从大学、学生贷款、互联网泡沫破灭到金融危机，我一直没有足够的资金来获得被动收入，从而真正实现财务自由。

Between college, student loans, the dot bomb crash and the great financial recession, I just never had enough money to have passive income such that I was done.

很多人终其一生都未能达到这个状态。

And a lot of people never get there.

我很幸运，十年前以高价出售了我的上一家公司。

I got lucky, I sold my last company about ten years ago for a lot of money.

现在，除非我再次搞砸（这种事确实发生过几次），否则我可以专注于经营人际关系。

Now, unless I really screw up again, which I've done a couple times, I can focus on my relationships.

低收入家庭儿童的静息血压，比中高收入家庭孩子的静息收缩压更高。

The resting blood pressure of a child in a low income home is higher than the resting systolic blood pressure of a kid in a middle or upper income home.

我认为大多数离婚案例并非源于出轨或价值观不合。

I think the majority of divorces are not a function of infidelity or a lack of shared values.

这些问题或许会作为导火索出现，但真正火上浇油的还是经济压力。

Those things, one or more of those things might happen, and then again, the incendiary on it is financial stress.

超过三分之二的离婚申请是由女性提出的。

Two thirds plus of divorce filings are from women.

我们不愿承认这点，因为我们总假设所有男性都是掠食者而所有女性都品德高尚。

We And don't like to say this because we like to assume all men are predators and all women are virtuous.

但当男性面临财务压力时，现实是他作为伴侣的吸引力会下降，这可能导致关系中的真正压力。

But when a man is under financial stress, the reality is he becomes less attractive as a mate, and that can lead to real stress in the relationship.

所以如果你不打算买房，你应该为自己规划一条道路。

So what you want to pursue if you're not pursuing a home, you want to put yourself on a path.

你需要与伴侣达成共识，追踪开支，并为自己规划一条通往某种程度经济安全的道路，比如在65岁前积累财富。

You want to get alignment with a partner, you want to track your spending, and put yourself on a path to some level of economic security, of wealth by, say, the time you're 65.

如果你年轻有为，与其购买更大的平板电视或房子，不如开始储蓄10%、15%、20%甚至30%的工资，这样在40或45岁时就能实现财富自由。

And if you're young and you're killing it, instead of buying a bigger flat screen or a bigger TV or maybe a bigger house, what if I started saving 10%, 15, 20%, 30% of my salary and I got wealth by the time I'm 40 or 45.

因为在美国，年轻健康且被动收入超过支出，你就能过上美好生活。

Because to be in America, young and healthy and have passive income that's greater than your burn, you're just going to have a wonderful life.

这并非要获取什么具体东西。

So it's not acquiring anything.

而是要达到经济安全或财富自由的境界。

It's getting to a point of economic security or wealth.

这取决于两个因素。

And that's a function of two things.

你能赚多少钱决定了你能存多少钱。

How much money you make such that you can save.

财富的关键不在于你赚多少，而在于你能存多少。

Key to wealth is not how much you make, it's how much you save.

另外你能控制的就是你的开销。

And also the thing you can control is your burn.

你知道，我有个朋友曾经经营一家对冲基金，后来基金倒闭了，他现在收入不错但不算特别高，带着三个孩子住在翠贝卡区，每年需要一百万美元才能维持那种生活水准。

You know, I have a friend who ran a hedge fund, it closed down, he makes good money but not great money, living in Tribeca with three kids, needed a million bucks a year to live that life.

后来他搬去了葡萄牙，现在住着漂亮的房子，享受美食、优质的儿童看护和教育，每年只需40万美元就过上了令人艳羡的生活。

Moved to Portugal, lives an amazing life with a beautiful home, great food, childcare, great education on $400 a year.

虽然这算是特权阶层的烦恼，但确实让他卸下了巨大的压力负担。

I mean, are problems of privilege, but that has taken the world of stress off his shoulders.

他现在只需要维持相当不错的生活水平，而不必再追求那种夸张的生活方式了。

He now needs to make a very good living, not an outrageous living.

但要让身边围绕着能帮你做这些决定的聪明人。

But surround yourself with smart people who can help you make these decisions.

但财富就是被动收入超过你的开支。

But wealth is passive income that's greater than your burn.

我无比激动地要向所有茶饮爱好者分享这个真正特别的东西。

I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there.

即使你不爱喝茶，如果你喜欢清爽提神又健康的气泡饮料，请听好这个。

Even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this.

Radhi和我倾注心血为你们打造了含有适应原的Juni气泡茶，因为我们相信滋养身体的重要性——每一口都能让你感受到心灵的平静、焕发的活力，以及点亮一天的光芒。

Radhi and I poured our hearts into creating Juni Sparkling Tea with adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body, and with every sip, you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality, and a burst of brightness to your day.

Juni注入了神奇的天然适应原，它们就像你身体的超级英雄，帮助你应对压力，在忙碌生活中找到平衡。

Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life.

我们精心调配的强大成分包括绿茶、南非醉茄、针叶樱桃和猴头菇，这些可能有助于促进新陈代谢、提供天然咖啡因、对抗压力、为身体补充抗氧化剂并激发大脑功能。

Our superfied blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea, ashwagandha, acerola cherry, and lion's mane mushroom, and these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants, and stimulate brain function.

更棒的是，Juni每罐零糖分且仅含五卡路里。

Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only five calories per can.

我们相信在享受真正美味清爽饮品的同时，也能滋养和激活您的身体。

We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink.

请立即访问drinkjuni.com开启您的健康之旅，使用优惠码ON PURPOSE可享受首单85折优惠。

So visit drinkjuni.com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code ON PURPOSE to receive 15% off your first order.

网址是drinkjuni.com，别忘了使用优惠码ONPURPUS。

That's drinkjuni.com and make sure you use the code ONPURPUS.

二十五年来，我一直在探索治愈的意义——不仅为自己，也与他人同行。

For twenty five years, I've explored what it means to heal, not just for myself, but alongside others.

我是迈克·德拉罗查。

I'm Mike Della Rocha.

这里是《神圣课程》，一个供我们反思、成长和集体治愈的空间。

This is Sacred Lessons, a space for reflection, growth, and collective healing.

你会对那些正在经历痛苦的男性说些什么？

What do you tell men that are hurting right now?

要相信在经历这一切之后，一切都会好起来的，坚持住。

Everything's gonna be okay on the other side, know, just push through it.

而且，说来讽刺，'精神'这个词的词根其实是'呼吸'。

And, you know, ironically, the root of the word spirit is breath.

哇。

Wow.

这就是为什么作为人类，我们能做的最具革命性的事情之一就是呼吸。

Which is why one of the most revolutionary acts that we can do as people is just breathe.

伤口旁边就是他们的天赋。

Next to the wound is their gifts.

除非你穿越伤痛，否则你无法发现自己的天赋。

You can't find your gifts unless you go through the wound.

这就是困难之处。

That's the hard thing.

你会想，好吧，我要得到我的天赋。

You think, well, I'm gonna get my gifts.

我不想经历所有那些痛苦。

I don't wanna go through all that.

你必须穿越那些遗留的伤痛。

You gotta go through the wounds you're left.

聆听他人的濒死体验，他们所说的不外乎这些。

Listening to other people's near death experiences, and that's all they say.

总而言之，爱就是答案。

In conclusion, love is the answer.

请收听作为My Cultura播客网络一部分的神圣课程，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您获取播客的任何平台找到。

Listen to sacred lessons as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

嘿。

Hey.

我是卡尔·彭。

I'm Cal Pen.

在我的新播客《历史重演》中，我们将探讨当今的趋势和头条新闻，并追问：为什么历史总在不断重演？

And on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself?

你可能知道我是《哈罗德与库马尔》电影里第二性感的演员，但我同时也是作家、白宫职员，以及大约十五秒前刚上任的播客主持人。

You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of, like, fifteen seconds ago, a podcast host.

这一路上，我结识了一些科学、政治和流行文化领域的专家朋友。

Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture.

每周都会有一位朋友加入节目，解答我那些迫切的问题。

And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

比如我们是否正走向像08年那样的又一次金融危机？

Like are we heading towards another financial crash like in o '8?

非一夫一妻制又流行起来了吗？

Is non monogamy back in style?

还有为什么航班提前两分钟降落时，登机口从来都没准备好？

And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early?

我们的嘉宾阵容包括皮特·布蒂吉格、斯泰西·艾布拉姆斯、莉莉·辛格和比尔·奈这样的重磅人物。

We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye.

当你开始将外太空武器化时，事情可能会变得非常糟糕。

When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong.

听着，现在的世界看起来确实很可怕，因为它确实如此。

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now because it is.

但我的目标是让你听完后对未来能稍微乐观一些。

But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future.

欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听并订阅《Here We Go Again with Cal Pen》。

Listen and subscribe to here we go again with Cal Pen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是伊娃·朗格利亚。

I'm Eva Longoria.

我是梅塔戈梅兹约翰。

And I'm Maytagomezjohan.

在我们的播客《Hungry for History》中，我们融合了两大最爱：美食与历史。

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history.

古雅典人曾将名字刻在牡蛎壳上进行投票，他们称之为'陶片放逐'，用来流放政客。

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these ostracon to vote politicians into exile.

所以英语中'ostracized'（排斥）这个词其实与'oyster'（牡蛎）同源。

So our word ostracized is related to the word oyster.

不会吧。

No way.

把陶片放逐法带回来吧。

Bring back the ostracon.

因为我们节目的氛围很友好，总有朋友来串门。

And because we've got a very kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by.

几乎每个进入这一侧的人

Pretty much every entry into this side

都是通过这个星球上的

of the planet was through the

墨西哥在那个时代的进步程度让我震惊。

It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this in this moment.

他们进行了土地改革。

They had land reform.

他们确立了劳工权利。

They had labor rights.

他们拥有教育权。

They had education rights.

芥末籽对古埃及人来说非常珍贵，他们常将其放入墓中以备来世使用。

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife.

欢迎收听《Hungry for History》节目，该节目属于My Kultura播客网络，您可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何您获取播客的平台收听。

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Kultura Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你提到钱这个词时，我们大多数人都会一脸茫然。

When you bring up the word money, most of us kind of go blank faced.

想抓个减压球捏捏。

Wanna reach for a stress ball.

你能感觉到谈论这个话题让人不适，因为我们几乎立刻会想起堆积如山的账单和各项开支。

We kind of, you can just sense that it's uncomfortable to talk about it because we're almost reminded of all the bills stacking up and all of our expenses.

这周我们在TikTok商店上又超支了。

And we spent too much on TikTok shop this week.

现实袭来时，我们往往不愿谈论，也不想提起这个话题。

And you know, the reality hits and we kind of don't want to talk about it, don't bring it up.

我们该如何摆脱这种压力重重的思维模式？

How do we get out of that stressful wiring?

你刚才也提到过你的成长背景。

And you talked about it even there with your background.

比如我成长在一个对金钱关系不太健康的家庭，因为我们总是钱不够用，或者刚好够用就觉得不错了。

Like I grew up in a family where we didn't have the healthiest relationship with money because we never had enough or we always had just enough and that was good enough.

那种感觉就像...你懂的，银行账户余额永远显示为零。

And that was always like, you know, you're just looking at your bank balance sitting at zero all the time.

我们该如何重塑与金钱的关系？

Like how do we rewire our relationship with money?

因为大多数人与金钱的关系都很紧张。

Because most of us have a stressful relationship with money.

当你思考如何帮助抑郁人群时，通常是谈话疗法和必要的药物干预相结合。

Well, when you think about how they help people who are depressed, it's a combination of talk therapy and if needed some sort of, you know, pharmaceutical intervention.

我认为关于金钱的心理疾病或心理不适，我们绝对需要：第一，提高金融素养。

I think mental illness or mental unwellness around money, I think we absolutely need to one, have more financial literacy.

我认为高中毕业班应该开设一门叫'成人必修课'的课程，内容是：我的孩子会解微分方程，却刚发现他连信用卡利率都搞不明白。

I think we should have a class called adulting in your senior year of high school that says, my kid can do derivatives, but I just figured out he doesn't understand the interest rate on his credit card.

所以年轻人需要具备一定程度的财务素养。

So young people needs a certain level of financial literacy.

此外，我鼓励他们多和朋友讨论金钱话题。

Also, I encourage them to talk about money with their friends.

这对男性来说尤其困难。

It's especially hard for men.

女性往往被过度以外貌评价。

Women are disproportionately evaluated based on their aesthetics.

男性则往往被过度以经济实力评价。

Men are disproportionately evaluated based on their economic vitality.

所以当男人说'嘿，我在股市亏惨了'时——

So for a guy to say, Hey, I lost a shit ton of money in the market.

我该割肉离场吗？

Should I sell it?

我能获得税务减免吗？

Do I get a tax write off?

这暗示着软弱。

That connotes weakness.

他们担心自己魅力下降。

They're worried that they're less attractive.

其实有个非常英国式的现象你可能深有体会——英国人最向往的成绩是高分低耗，既要拿高分又要显得毫不费力。

There's actually something very British that you might relate to, and that is British people, the best grade I understand in Britain that everyone wants is you get really high marks, but really low effort scores.

你得装作是意外致富。

You're supposed to be accidentally rich.

我是个超级大佬，业务能力超强，钱多到像是走路不小心被绊倒就摔在了钱堆上。

I'm such a baller, and I'm so great at what I do that I just accidentally slipped and fell on a ton of money.

不，这是要付出努力的。

No, it's work.

你得好好想想这个问题。

You got to think about it.

你得说出来。

You got to talk about it.

所以我鼓励人们和朋友聊聊。

So I encourage people to talk to their friends.

如果你觉得自在的话，可以谈谈：'这是我赚的钱，这是我存的钱。'

And if you're comfortable, this is how much money I'm making, this is how much I'm saving.

你知道，税收真的很重要。

This is, you know, taxation is really important.

如果我搬到佛罗里达会怎样？

What if I move to Florida?

我能省下多少钱？

How much money would I save?

比如说，如果我现在买房会怎样？

You know, what if I buy a house now?

我听说有个叫1031交换的政策，可以让我免税置换下一套房产。

I hear there's something called ten thirty one exchange where I can roll into my next property tax free.

谈论金钱。

Talk about money.

要真正精通它。

Get really good at it.

罗杰·费德勒，你觉得他从不谈论网球吗？

Roger Federer, do you think he never talks about tennis?

他无时无刻不在谈论这个。

Talks about it all the goddamn time.

你想在金钱方面变得出色吗？

Do you want to be great at money?

大多数人会说，是的，我想在金钱方面变得出色。

Most people say, yeah, I want to be great at money.

有人天生就擅长某事吗？

Is anybody great at anything?

如果我想成为一名杰出的人类进化研究专家，难道我就该闭口不谈吗？

If I wanted to be an amazing evolutionary anthropologist, would I never talk about it?

我难道永远不会在谈话中提起它吗？

Would I never bring it up in conversation?

我难道永远不会想和别人讨论进化人类学吗？

Would I never want to talk to other people about evolutionary anthropology?

如果你想精通金钱之道，就放下伪装，开始与人谈论他们的投资、收入情况、资金用途、储蓄方式以及他们如何控制开支。

If you want to be good at money, put down the facade and start talking to people about their investments, how much money they make, what they do with their money, how they save money, what they do to try and limit their spending.

我经常谈论斯多葛主义。

I talk about stoicism.

看看你能否找到一种实践方式，从锻炼或人际关系中获得奖励或快感。

See if you can find a practice where you get reward or a dope a hit from exercise or relationships.

把存钱变成游戏。

Gamify saving money.

我在加州大学洛杉矶分校大三那年，加入了一个主要由来自山谷的富裕犹太孩子组成的兄弟会，120人中只有我们五六个人，但所有人都知道我们是谁。

My junior year at UCLA, I was in a fraternity with mostly wealthy Jewish kids from Valley, and there were five or six of us out of 120 guys and everybody knew who we were.

我们当时身无分文。

We didn't have any money.

我们总是拖欠房租，大家都知道'哦，那几个就是穷孩子'，对吧？

We were always laying on our house bills, everyone knew oh those were the poor kids, right?

有一个夏天，我们都住在同一栋公寓楼里，我们把省钱变成了一场游戏。

And one summer, we all lived in the same apartment building and we gamified saving money.

我们有一块白板，真的把它变成了一个游戏。

And we had a whiteboard and we literally made a game out of it.

1985年时，我靠每周78美元（包括房租）撑过了十二周。

In the 1985, I survived for twelve weeks on $78 a week, including rent.

因为如果到秋天前我没能省下3000美元，我就没法回去上大四了——我没有有钱的父母。

Because if I didn't save $3,000 by the fall, I wasn't going back for my senior year in college because I didn't have wealthy parents.

如果能和伴侣一起把省钱游戏化，特别是能完全坦诚相待的恋人，天啊，那力量是巨大的。

And if you can gamify saving money with a a partner, especially a romantic partner that you can be totally transparent with, God, that's powerful.

我们正在共同建设一些东西。

We're building something.

我们要省下一大笔钱。

We're going to save a ton of money.

我们今年能一起存下五千或七千美元吗？

Can we save five thousand or seven thousand dollars bucks this year together?

明年就能存到八千，接着是九千，加上复利效应——五六年时间其实过得很快——我们就能有60.81万美元。

And it's going to be $8,000 next year, and then it's going to be 9, and with compounding in five or six years, which will go really fast, we have $608,100 grand.

我认为养育孩子是我人生中最有成就感的事。

And having kids is I think the most rewarding thing it has been for me.

原本没计划要孩子，但和伴侣共同养育孩子，把他们培养成还算不错的公民。

Didn't plan to have kids, but it was having kids with someone else and raising what feel like pretty good citizens.

但紧随其后的成就感和别人一起构筑经济安全感。

But a close second was building economic security with someone else.

我们当时完全同心协力，对吧？

We had total alignment, right?

我们要存钱。

We're going to save.

我们对所有开支都完全透明。

We were transparent around our expenses.

我们彼此都很慷慨。

We were generous with each other.

哦，不，你应该那样做。

Oh, no, you should do that.

在恋爱关系中有时会存在非常不健康的互动模式。

There's a very unhealthy dynamic sometimes in relationships.

虽然这话有点性别歧视，但我发现确实存在这种情况：男人用金钱控制配偶，而女方则把花钱变成一场‘能瞒着他花多少钱’的游戏。

And this is sexist, but I found it to be true where the dude uses money to control his spouse and the spouse turns it into a game of how much money she can spend without him knowing.

幸运的是，这种情况正在逐渐扭转，或者说趋于平等，因为女性现在表现得非常出色。

And fortunately, that's getting flipped a little bit or it's equalizing because women are doing so well.

在都市地区，30岁以下女性的收入更高，单身女性购房的比例也更高。

Women under the age of 30 are making more money in urban centers, more single women own homes.

但在我这一代人当中，两性之间关于金钱的互动模式仍然非常奇怪。

But there's still in my generation this very weird dynamic between the sexes and money.

但回到你最初的问题——要沟通，要理解。

But going back to your original question, talk about it, understand it.

如果你想在这方面做得好，就必须先掌握相关知识。

If you want to be good at it, you got to get literate at it.

你要和朋友讨论并开始学习。

You want to bring it up with your friends and you start learning.

我每周大概花四个小时和别人讨论我的经济状况、有哪些税收漏洞、以及我应该在哪里投资。

I spent four hours a week probably talking to other people about my economic well-being, what tax loopholes there are, where I should be investing.

我持有很多房地产，就等利率下降。

I have a lot of real estate when interest rates come down.

利率要降到什么程度，我才该申请第二笔贷款投入股市？要知道如果我有十年期贷款，股市通常每年有7%到9%的涨幅。

At what point do interest rates get low enough where I should be pulling a second out and putting it in the market knowing if I have a ten year mortgage over ten years, the market's usually up about seven to 9% a year.

这有道理吧？

Does that make sense, right?

要经常思考这些问题。

Think about it all the time.

你是你五个朋友的平均值，你见过那个研究吧——包括体重、政治立场、支持的球队等等。

You're the average of your five friends, you've seen that study, body mass, politics, sports teams.

但更有趣的是，这五个人中有一个会比另外四个在经济上更稳定得多，尽管收入并没有高出很多。

But what's more interesting is one of those five people will be more economically secure, much more economically secure than the other four, despite not making a lot more money.

你需要了解这些行为和特质，并效仿那个人。

You want to know those behaviors and those characteristics, and you want to model that person.

但这是我们都需要更加开放面对的事情。

But this is something we all need to be more open about.

这不会让你显得不够男人。

It doesn't make you less of a man.

年轻时本来就不该有很多钱。

You're not supposed to have a lot of money when you're young.

每个人都会搞砸。

Everybody screws up.

我曾破产过两次。

I've been broke twice.

四十多岁时我破产了，当时真的羞于向任何人承认这件事。

In my forties, I was broke, and that was really, I was too ashamed to admit that to anybody else.

这就像，你应该很聪明，很擅长你所做的事情，对吧？

It was like, well, you're supposed to be smart and great at what you do, right?

所以我认为应该更脆弱一点，坦诚面对，并从他人那里获取建议和一些经验法则。

So I think being a little bit more vulnerable, being open about it and getting tips and kind of rules of the road from other people.

谈论它。

Talk about it.

是的，我查阅的一项研究显示，2024年有38%的夫妻报告称财务问题是导致离婚的原因。

Yeah, one of the studies I looked at and you just brought up here was that in 2024, thirty eight percent of couples reported financial problems as the cause for divorce.

是的。

Yeah.

这正是你刚才提到的，能够与伴侣谈论金钱问题。

And it's what you talked about there of being able to talk to your partner about money.

有什么健康的方式来提出这个话题，并与他人建立联系？

What's a healthy way to bring up the subject to connect with someone about it?

因为正如你所说，有时在早期约会阶段谈论这个会让人很不舒服，因为人们会觉得你是拜金者。

Because as you said, sometimes in the early dating phases, it's really uncomfortable to talk about it because people feel you're a gold digger.

人们会觉得你只是图他们的钱。

People feel that you're just after their money.

人们担心自己没有足够的钱来谈论这个话题。

People are concerned that they don't have enough of it to talk about it.

但如果你真的打算进入一段认真的关系，我们该如何开始健康有效地讨论金钱问题呢？

But if you're actually getting into a committed relationship, how do we start having healthy and effective conversations about money?

我认为是透明度和预算。

I would say transparency and a budget.

你知道，我们都有那种曾经错过的人。

You know, we kind of all have that one that sort of got away.

我曾深爱一位正在外科实习期的女性，我对她非常认真。

Was deeply in love with this woman who was in her residency to be a surgeon and I was very serious about her.

于是我说，听着，这就是我的全部情况。

And so I said, look, this is what I have.

我详细交代了我的资产、赚钱计划、现有资金、亏损经历和盈利来源。

And I kind of went through my assets, how I plan to make money, what money I had, where I'd lost money, where I'd made money.

然后她也非常坦诚地说，我父母很有钱，等他们去世后我会继承一些财产。

And then she was very transparent and said, well, my parents are wealthy, so when they pass, I'll get some money.

但目前我只有一堆债务。

But right now all I have is a ton of debt.

我觉得这种坦诚让我们感觉彼此更亲近了。

And I think it made us feel really much closer to each other, that kind of transparency.

所以第一点，我认为是坦诚。

So one, I would say it's transparency.

第二点是要定期沟通和制定预算。

And I would say it's regular check ins and a budget.

真正破坏感情的不是财务问题，而是意外状况。

I think what really screws up relationships is not financial mishaps, it's surprises.

什么？你一直在做日内交易，还听信同事推荐的股票，结果亏掉了我们20%的积蓄？这事都发生一年了现在才告诉我？

Oh, you've been day trading and you've been going into some stock that your buddy at work said was good and you lost 20% of our savings, but it happened a year ago and you're telling me now?

所以我认为最好定期坐下来，不仅要讨论预算，还要同步财务状况，梳理开支情况，保持彼此完全透明。

So I think it's a good idea to on a regular basis, not only sit down and talk about budget, but just say, this is what's going on with us financially, and go through kind of spending and just being very transparent with each other.

还有，你知道的，不要藏着掖着，对吧？

And also, you know, not hiding the ball, right?

我觉得有时候人们不愿意谈论他们遭受的经济损失。

I think that sometimes people don't want to talk about a financial hit they've taken.

就像我说的，破坏婚姻的不仅是经济压力，还有关于经济压力的突然袭击。

Like I said, I think the thing that screws up marriages is not only financial stress, but it surprises about financial stress.

天啊，你

Jesus, you've

一直在挥霍

been spending

这么多钱却试图瞒着我？

and this much money on you were trying to hide it from me?

我们在这一只股票上损失了30%的积蓄，而你都没有...我会和伴侣定期沟通，告诉他我们的现状和我的想法。

We lost 30% of our savings in this one stock, and you didn't like, I check-in with my partner and I say, this is where we are, this is what I'm thinking.

在做重大投资前，我都会先征求她的意见。

I don't make a big investment without running it by her first.

她总是说同意，但我希望她知道，因为这样如果事情不顺利，这是我们共同的问题。所以透明度很重要，要一起讨论并共同审核预算。

She always says yes, but I want her to know because that way if it doesn't go well, our problem, it's our So transparency, talking about it and budget that you review together.

没错没错，这是很好的建议。我认为透明这一点非常重要，因为你说得对，关系中任何形式的意外都是最大的信任杀手。

Yeah, yeah, and that's great advice and I think that transparency point is so huge because you're so right, surprises in any way in relationships are the biggest trust breaker.

100%同意。

100%.

你说得太对了，问题甚至不在于对方对你做的事有意见，而在于你为什么不告诉他们。

And you're so right that it's not even that that person had an issue with what you were doing, it's why you didn't tell them.

这才是真正破坏信任的原因。

That's what really breaks it down.

你经常谈到投资要专注于才能而非激情。

You talk a lot about investing and focusing on your talents, not your passions.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得长期以来我们总听到'找到你的激情、追逐激情'这样的说法，而你的观点是'不，是才能，才能'。

And I think for a long time, we've kept hearing this language around find your passion, your passion, chase your passion, and yours is, well, no, talent, talent.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我们来谈谈为什么选择天赋而非热情。

A lot of, first of all, let's talk about why talents over passions.

其次，我经常听到有人说，杰，我甚至不知道自己的热情是什么，也不知道自己的天赋是什么。

And second of all, a lot of what I hear is, Jay, I don't even know what my passions are and I don't know what my talents are.

是的。

Yeah.

我该何去何从？

Where do I go?

首先，为什么是天赋而非热情？

So first thing, why talents over passions?

其次，如果我不知道自己的天赋是什么该怎么办？

And second, what do I do if I don't know what my talents are?

没错，在纽约大学我们有两类演讲者——真正成就斐然的杰出人士和亿万富翁们。

Yeah, we get two types of speakers at NYU, really accomplished, impressive people and billionaires.

我们一致认为，当你的净资产达到三个逗号（十亿级）时，你就对人生有了真知灼见。

We've just decided once you have three commas around your net worth, you have insight into life.

他们总是在演讲结尾——或者说大多数时候——给出这样的建议，我认为这对年轻人是极其糟糕的建议。

And they always end their speech, or most of the time end their speech with the following advice, which I think is just terrible advice for young people.

追随你的热情。

Follow your passion.

首先你要明白，大多数鼓吹'追随热情'的人早已腰缠万贯，他们的亿万身家来自铁矿冶炼这种行业。

First off, recognize the majority of people telling you to follow your passion are already rich, and they made their billions in iron ore smelting.

这就是你的任务。

This is your job.

你的任务是发掘自己的天赋，争取十年内跻身前10%，十五到二十年内可能达到前1%。

Your job is to find your talent such that you could be in the top 10% within ten years and then maybe in the top 1% in fifteen or twenty years.

而这正是困难或关键的部分。

And this is the hard part or the important part.

在一个就业率超过90%的行业中——顺便说一句，90%以上的行业都是如此。

In an industry that has a 90 plus percent employment rate, which by the way, is 90 plus percent of industries.

年轻人的热情常常与他们的爱好混为一谈。

Young people's passions are often conflated with their hobbies.

我曾想成为喷气机队的四分卫。

I would have liked to have been quarterback for the Jets.

我手臂力量不错，投球轨迹好，视野开阔，身高1米9，体重86公斤。

Have a pretty decent arm, a good plane, good field of vision, six'three, one hundred ninety.

我以为自己完全符合喷气机队四分卫的选角标准。

I thought I was out of central casting to be the quarterback for the Jets.

当我进入UCLA后，我很庆幸能认清真正运动员的样子，而我并非其中一员。

Once I got to UCLA, I was fortunate to know this is what real athletes look like, and you're not one of them.

所以大多数人最终都没能从事所谓的'热情所在'，因为他们意识到那只是爱好。

So the majority of people don't end up in what the quote unquote their passion is because what they realize is that's a hobby.

艺术、DJ、模特、体育、夜生活、珠宝设计——这些热情产业吸引了太多人力资本，反而拉低了你的资本回报率。

Art, DJ modeling, athletics, nightlife, designing a jewelry line, the passion industries attract so much human capital that it drives down the return on your human capital.

美国演员工会现有18万名演员。

There are 180,000 actors and actresses in SAG AFTRA.

这些都是世界上最富有才华的创意人才。

These are the most talented creatives in the world.

而且获得工会会员资格并不容易。

And it's not easy to get a union card.

去年，他们中有83%的人因收入未达到23,000美元而无法获得医疗保险。所以你要明白，如果你能找到自己真正擅长的领域，并且这个行业的就业率超过90%，这就是现实情况。

Last year, 83% of them didn't qualify for health insurance because they didn't make $23,000 So recognize that if you're able to find something you're really good at, and it's in an industry with a 90 plus employment rate, this is what's going to happen.

热情源于对行业的精通以及随之而来的经济回报。

Passion comes from mastery and the economic accoutrements of mastery of an industry.

没有人从小就会想着'我想成为税务律师，我对税法充满热情'。

Now, no one grows up thinking, I'd like to be, I'm passionate about tax law.

但如果你具备获得法律学位的技能和自律性，理解法律与经济学的交叉点，懂得如何与客户打交道，那么顶尖的税务律师就能乘坐私人飞机，并在择偶方面拥有远超其应得的前10%或20%的选择权。

But if you have the skills and the discipline to get a law degree and you understand the intersection between the law and economics, you know how to handle clients, The best tax lawyers fly private and have a larger selection set of mates than they deserve in the top 10 or 20.

想在虚荣产业中获得这类附加价值，你必须跻身那0.1%的顶尖群体。

To have those sorts of accoutrements in a vanity industry, you have to be in the 0.1%.

所以我并不想粉碎任何人的梦想。

So I don't want to crush anyone's dreams.

如果你想当DJ或是运动员，没问题。

If you want to be a DJ or you want to be an athlete, fine.

但要给自己设限，除非有明确信号表明我绝对是顶尖的1%，如果你是下一个梅西，人们会告诉你的。

But ring fence it and say, unless I get flashing green lights that I'm definitely in the top 1%, and you'll know if you're the next Messi, people are going to tell you.

如果突然开始受邀去拉斯维加斯打碟，还有人愿意付钱请你表演，你很快就能意识到自己的水平。

You'll know if all of a sudden you start getting invited to Vegas to DJ and people are willing to pay you to DJ, you'll know, you'll know pretty fast.

但如果没有快速成为1%的明确信号，或许该考虑其他非浪漫行业的领域，努力做到优秀甚至卓越。

But if you don't get those green lights saying you're going to be in the 1% really fast, maybe workshop something else that's not in the romance industry and try and become good slash great at it.

给我安装皂石台面的师傅是马阿拉邦地区最擅长大理石和花岗岩的。

The guy who's installing my soapstone counter is the kind of the marble guy or the granite guy in Marla Bone.

他是伊拉克移民。

This is a Iraqi immigrant.

我们逐渐熟识起来。

We got to know each other.

他向我介绍了他的工作。

He told me about what he does.

对大理石了如指掌。

Knows everything about marble.

对其无所不知。

Knows everything about it.

亲自去采石场，能细说每道纹理和所有细节。

Goes to the quarries, can talk about the veining and everything.

大约十八年前从伊拉克移民过来，开始为别人打工，后来彻底迷上了这行。

Immigrated from Iraq about eighteen years ago, started working for a guy, got super into it.

他年营业额高达230万英镑。

He makes £2,300,000 a year top line.

作为皂石大理石专家，他个人年收入达80万英镑，并且对此充满热情。

He himself makes £800,000 a year as the soapstone marble guy, and he's become passionate about it.

这行业的关联性、专业装备、经济保障。

The relevance, the accoutrements, the economic security.

杰，这就是你会为之着迷的事业。

And this is what you become passionate about, Jay.

你会热衷于照顾自己的孩子。

You become passionate about taking care of your kids.

你会热衷于帮助父母解决问题。

You become passionate about helping your parents out.

你会热衷于和伴侣享受美好的假期。

You become passionate about taking really nice vacations with your partner.

任何能为你带来这些东西的事物，你都会对其产生热情。

Anything that provides you with that stuff, you're going to become passionate about.

所以我的建议是：热情源于精通、工匠精神、对某件事如忍者般的掌控力，以及能为你提供经济保障的事物——在资本主义社会里，这种保障能让你过上美妙的生活。

So what I would suggest is passion comes from mastery, artisanship, ninja like command of something, and also something that provides you with the economic security that in capitalist society affords you an amazing life.

所以找到你的天赋所在。

So find your talent.

这就是你的任务。

That's your job.

如果你擅长某事，在一个就业率高的行业里，你可以变得非常出色——相信我，相信我，你会找到热情的。

If you're good at something, you can become great at it in an industry with a high employment rate, trust me, trust me, you're gonna find passion.

对于那些坐在那里说'我不知道自己擅长什么'的人

And for those people who are sitting there going, well I don't know what I'm talented at.

比如我甚至不知道自己的天赋是什么，我没有任何被他人认可、注意或承认的特长，各方面都很平庸

Like I don't even know what my talent is, I don't really have anything that anyone's ever validated, noticed, recognized, and pretty average at everything.

他们该从哪里开始呢？

Where do they start?

我认为你需要组建一个'厨房内阁'——一群在任何工作中都能与你并肩作战的人

I think you want to build a kitchen cabinet of people who you can sit down at any job.

首先，不要让完美成为优秀的敌人，直接开始行动

First off, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, just start.

我18岁时以为自己会成为儿科医生

When I was 18, I thought I was going to be a pediatrician.

化学课让我打消了这个念头

Chemistry disavowed me of that.

15岁时我还以为自己会成为运动员

Thought I was going be an athlete when I was 15.

加州大学洛杉矶分校让我打消了这个念头。

UCLA disavowed me of that.

22岁时我以为自己会成为投资银行家，现实让我清醒了。

Thought I was going to be an investment banker at 22, disabused me of that.

在商学院时我以为自己会成为一名医疗顾问。

Thought I was going to be a healthcare consultant when I was in business school.

然后我想，我不确定自己是否擅长这个。

And then I thought, I don't know if I'd be any good at this.

最终我进入了战略分析领域。

I ended up in strategy and then analytics.

我当时根本不知道战略分析是什么。

I didn't know what strategy and analytics were.

所以要多尝试，对自己诚实。

So try stuff, be honest with yourself.

不要一遇到不喜欢就放弃，那可能只是工作本身的性质。

Don't give up at the first sign if I don't like it, well, that just might be work.

但你会逐渐获得关于自己擅长和不擅长之事的反馈。

But you'll start to get feedback on what you're good at and what you're not good at.

然后不断实践，持续投入，要明白在任何领域做到卓越都很难，但你终会找到感觉——比如某天你意识到自己擅长讲故事、声音好听、在这方面有天赋，对吧？

And workshop it, keep investing, recognize it's hard to be great at anything, but you'll probably get a feel, mean I at some point you recognized you're a good storyteller, you have a nice voice, you're good at this, right?

我想这一路上你也意识到有些事情自己并不擅长。

And I imagine there were some things along the way you recognize, I'm not that good at this.

我虽然很努力，但就是不太在行。

I'm trying hard and I'm not that good.

我曾拼命想成为一名优秀的投资银行家。

I tried really hard to be a good investment banker.

但我在这方面毫无天赋。

I had no natural skills at it.

我就是做不好。

I just wasn't good at it.

后来当我进入咨询行业，能将数据编织成故事，让CEO和CMO们听完后说'把那个人找来'——我创办了一家名为Profit的战略公司，他们就会说'让他来，听听他的见解'。

And then when I got into consulting and I took data and could frame it into a story where CEOs and CMOs would listen to me and say, bring in that, I started a strategy firm called Profit, bring in them, see what they think.

我当时就想，哇，我们擅长这个。

I'm like, wow, we're good at this.

甚至可能我们会觉得，我在这方面非常出色。

Maybe even we can be, I'm great at it.

所以再次强调，找一群核心圈子的朋友来交流，找能给你建议的人，开始实践吧。

So another again, group of kitchen cabinet people who can talk to you, people who can advise you, get started Workshop.

好吧，这不是最理想的工作。

Okay, it's not the perfect job.

我不确定自己会对它充满热情。

I'm not sure I'll be passionate about it.

不，不，不。

No, no, no.

如果你能找到更好的，那当然好。

If you can find something better, great.

在那之前，先参与进来，看看机会在哪里，你会开始从市场反馈中了解自己擅长和不擅长什么。

Until then, get in the game, see where the opportunities are, and you'll start getting market feedback on what you're good at or not good at.

你会逐渐意识到，哇，我其实挺擅长这个的，然后可以问问周围人的意见，寻求反馈。

And you'll start to click in, wow, I really, I'm pretty good at this and ask people around you, ask for reviews.

我认为我给年轻员工提供的报酬还算不错，虽然谈论这个话题时我觉得自己可能还有提升空间。

The compensation I think I provide my younger employees with, I like to think I'm good at this, maybe I could be better as I talk about it.

年轻人需要的不仅仅是金钱，更重要的是反馈。

It's not only monetary, what young people need is feedback.

如果你作为老板能说：'你知道吗，你特别擅长带新人，能让他们感到宾至如归。'

If you are in a position as a boss to say, you know what, you're great with new employees, you make them feel welcome.

那我是不是该考虑从事招聘或人力资源方面的工作？

Well, should I consider a career in recruiting or HR?

你在客户面前表现太出色了，天啊，你简直是个销售天才吧？

You're great with clients, Jesus Christ, can you sell?

你喜欢喝酒，虽然闹腾得有点烦人但很有趣，客户来城里时都愿意跟你出去玩——老板，你天生就该做销售。

You like to drink, you're ridiculously obnoxious in a funny way, people want to go out with you when they're in town, boss, you should be in sales.

你就该干销售这行，而且你智商也不差，完全可以去卖Oracle的数据库软件或者Salesforce的CRM系统，因为光靠陪客户应酬建立关系，30岁前你就能赚到50万美元。

You should be selling and you got a decent IQ, you should be selling database software for Oracle or CRM software for Salesforce because you're gonna make a half $1,000,000 by the time you're 30 taking people out and establishing relationships.

获取反馈，不断实践，你会开始吸收经验，但如果你不拿起球拍，你永远不会发现自己擅长板球。

Get feedback, workshop stuff, but you'll start to absorb stuff, but you're never going to find out you're good at cricket unless you pick up a mountain.

你知道的，你永远不会发现这一点。

You know, you're just not going to find out.

所以尽可能多尝试不同事物，与能给你真诚反馈的人为伍，并持续实践改进。

So try as many things as possible, surround yourself with people and give you an honest feedback and keep workshopping stuff.

不要害怕。

Don't be afraid.

别这样，你要学会原谅自己。

Don't, you know, again, forgive yourself.

如果你不适合做投资银行家，当不了医生，也成不了运动员，那也没关系。

If you're not a good investment banker, you're not cut out to be a doctor, you're not going to be an athlete, that's okay.

机会就在那里。

It's out there.

只要持续出现，不断尝试，你终会找到属于自己的天地。

Just keep showing up, Keep showing up, keep trying, and you will hopefully find that thing.

我不想说这是必然的。

I don't want to say it's a guarantee.

我认为有些人永远找不到自己擅长的事。

I think some people never find anything they're great at.

但在当前的经济环境下，你应该能找到至少自己还算擅长的事情。

But in this economy, you should be able to find something you're at least good at.

是的，我很欣赏你分享的这些多样化角色经历，还有你的座右铭——原谅自己。

Yeah, I appreciate what you were sharing about the diverse roles you've had and again your mantra, forgive yourself.

回顾人生时，我曾以为重点在于寻找或发现那个'天命'。

And I look back at life as thinking that it would be about finding or discovering the thing.

后来我意识到更重要的是积累与联结。

And I realized it was so much more about collecting and connecting.

说得对。

That's right.

对，就是

Right, it

就像是收集想法，积累技能。

was like collecting ideas, collecting skills.

然后在某个时刻它们似乎都串联起来了，尽管如史蒂夫·乔布斯那句名言所说，你无法前瞻性地串联这些点，只能在回顾时看清关联。

And then at one point they all seemed to connect even though, you know, in the famous words of Steve Jobs, you can't connect the dots looking forward, you only can looking backwards.

所以现在当我回望人生时，我会想起15岁实习的经历——当时被要求给300家公司打陌生电话，我完全不懂什么是陌生电话或我们在推销什么，但还是接受了培训去完成。

And so now when I look back at my life, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember doing work experience when I was like 15 years old and I was told to cold call 300 companies and I had no idea what a cold call was or what we were selling, but I was trained to do it.

这段经历让我获得了应对拒绝的宝贵历练。

And it gave me an amazing experience to deal with rejection.

我拨打的300家公司中，大概有297家都拒绝了。

Out of the 300 companies I called, I think two ninety seven said no.

是啊。

Yeah.

但那3家同意的公司给了我无比振奋的感觉。

But the three that said yes just gave me this exhilarating feeling.

确实。

Yeah.

后来我在Morrison超市工作，负责货架整理和在仓库做些额外的数据库管理工作。

And then I worked at Morrison stacking shelves and doing, you know, extra database management work in the warehouse.

我还记得加班是什么感觉。

And I remember what overtime felt like.

我记得在Extra工作时加班工资是1.5倍，当时就觉得原来加班是这种感觉。

And I knew I got paid 1.5 times as much when I worked at Extra and I was like, oh, okay, that's what overtime feels like.

后来在零售店工作时，我知道如果能向顾客推销积分卡，每张卡就能多赚10英镑。

And then I remember working in retail and I knew if I could sell a card to the customer to collect points, then I would get 10 extra on every card.

最奇妙的是所有这些经历——后来我还在埃森哲做过咨询师。

And it was just fascinating to me that all of those experiences, and then I worked as a consultant at Accenture too.

虽然我在公司内部表现不错，但按他们的标准我算不上多优秀的咨询师。不过这段经历让我掌握了谈判、演示、制作方案、理解客户需求与目标等众多技能。

And again, I don't think I was that great a consultant by their definition, even though I did very well inside the organization, I picked up so many skills when it came to negotiation, presentation, deck building, understanding the needs, interests and concerns of our clients and what they were trying to achieve.

但这些都不是我的人生目标。

And none of that was my purpose.

这些也并非我的专长领域。

And none of that was my field of excellence.

我在那些方面都不擅长。

Was not great at any of those things.

但如今所有这些技能都变得极其宝贵。

But all of those skills have become so valuable today.

我很喜欢你这种说法，因为当我回顾投资银行经历时，那并非失败的实验——它教会了我注重细节。

I love the way you say that because when I look back on investment banking, it wasn't a failed experiment because it taught me attention to detail.

它教会了我早起打领带。

It taught me to get up early and put on a tie.

它教会了我如何如何察言观色。

It taught me sort of how to read a room.

它教会了我如何撰写提案。

It taught me how to write a proposal.

它让我对信贷市场有所了解，因为我当时在固定收益部门工作。

It taught me a little bit about the credit markets because I was in fixed income.

你提到的在服务行业工作或在Morrison's打工的经历非常重要，因为这让你明白：第一，没人欠你生计。

What you said about being in the services industry or working jobs at Morrison's, that is really important, because it gives you a sense for one, no one owes you a living.

努力工作、与人相处、培养坚韧品质，你说的那份销售工作，我认为每个人都应该经历一份需要忍耐、需要面对公众的工作，因为你会意识到很多人并不友善，你必须学会应对，或者他们只是当天心情不好。

Showing up working hard, getting along with people, developing a sense of grit, the job you're talking about, the sales job, I think everyone should be in a job where they endure, they deal with the public because they realize that a lot of people aren't nice and you have to navigate that or they're just not having a bad day or they're just not having a good day.

但关键是我的成功秘诀在于承受拒绝的能力。

But also the, and this is the key to my success is my ability to endure rejection.

如果你想在经济或感情上超越自己的阶层，那就拿个大勺子准备吃苦头吧。

You know, if you want to score above your weight class economically or romantically, get out a big spoon and get ready to eat shit.

因为我申请了九所商学院，只被两所录取。

Because I applied to nine business schools, I got into two.

高中时，我连续竞选了二年级、三年级和四年级的班长。

I have, in high school, ran for sophomore, junior, and senior class president.

三次都落选了，基于这个记录，我决定竞选学生会主席——结果你猜怎么着？又落选了。

I lost all three times, and based on my track record, I decided to run for student body president where I went on to, wait for it, lose.

有很多女性明确告诉过她们对我没兴趣。

I have had a lot of women tell me they're not interested in dating me.

我为自己的战略公司向潜在客户发出过成千上万封邮件。

I have sent out thousands of emails to potential clients for my strategy firm.

在融资过程中，我曾向数百位风险投资人进行过推介。

I have pitched hundreds of venture capitalists on my way to raising money.

而我比普通人更富有、能与在风险调整评分卡上品格异常高尚且外貌远胜于我的人共度一生的原因，正是因为我从不畏惧承受拒绝。

And the reason why I am wealthier than your average bear and get to spend my life with someone who on a risk adjusted scorecard is exceptionally higher character and much more attractive than me is because I was never afraid to endure rejection.

我一直具备承受拒绝、短暂沮丧然后继续前进的能力。

I always had the ability to endure rejection, mourn, and move on.

所以如果你不愿意承受拒绝，不愿意承担这类风险——我现在的伴侣是我在南滩罗利酒店遇到的。

So if you aren't willing to endure rejection, if you aren't willing to take those types of risks, my current partner, I met at the Raleigh Hotel in South Beach.

当时她和朋友及另一个男士在一起，我暗自下定决心要和她搭话。

She was there with a friend and another guy, and I promised myself I was going to speak to her.

离开前我就已被她深深吸引。

I was very drawn to her before I left.

走到代客取车处时对自己生了气，又折返回去，径直走到他们面前说：'嗨，我是斯科特。'

Went out to get my car at the valet, got angry at myself, went back, walked right up to them and said, Hi, I'm Scott.

你们是从哪里来的？

Where are you guys from?

而现在，你知道，我们大儿子的中间名就叫雷利。

And now, you know, our oldest son's middle name is Raleigh.

你必须愿意承受被拒绝。

You gotta be willing to endure rejection.

问题是，大多数人都不愿意。

And here's the thing, most people aren't.

大多数人永远不会投资自己的公司。

Most people will never invest in their own company.

他们太害怕亏钱。

They're too scared to lose money.

大多数人不会主动去和陌生人搭话。

Most people will not go up and speak to a stranger.

这是我带儿子外出时要求他们必须做的事。

This is something I force my boys to do when we're out.

我会说：你们至少得和一个陌生人说句话。

I'm like, you got to speak to at least one stranger.

我家老大对此毫无压力。

My oldest one has no problem with that.

我家小儿子在这方面就稍微困难些。

My youngest has a little bit more of difficult time.

但主动开启对话的能力，主动联系他人的能力——

But the ability to open, the ability to call somebody.

当你打电话时，别再来烦我。

When you were calling, don't call me again.

所以你的意思是我应该两周后再跟进，对吧？

So what I think you're saying is I should check back in two weeks, right?

我是说，我简直无法想象你刚开始做播客时吃了多少苦头，对吧？

I mean, I can't imagine how much shit you must have eaten starting a podcast, right?

其实也不是。

I mean, it's not.

我是和一位已经有粉丝基础的搭档一起开始的。

I got to start one with a cohost who already had a following.