第18集 - Telstra风投：衡量对投资组合公司的增值贡献

我认为一个创新环境要非常成功，确实需要我们之前讨论过的所有要素，政府是其中一环。虽然政府角色重要，但并非唯一。政府最擅长做的，就是尽可能消除行业中的摩擦阻力，从而吸引最优秀的企业家、科学家和投资者来到澳大利亚或其他创新环境。当然，世界上还有其他成功范例。

I think for an innovation environment to be very successful, I think you really need all the things that we talked about before, and government is one piece. I think it's an important piece, but it's not the only piece. And I think one of the things that governments, you know, can do very well is to remove as much friction out of the industry as possible. So in order to attract the best entrepreneurs, the best scientists, the best investors to come to Australia or wherever that environment is. And look, there are other places in the world.

以色列就取得了巨大成功，硅谷显然是科技投资领域的宇宙中心。研究这些地区的成功经验并尝试在其他市场复刻，我认为很有启发。对澳大利亚而言，科技领域蕴藏着惊人机遇，过去一二十年的进步幅度让我倍感振奋。正如你所说，最好的时代还在后头。

Israel has been very successful. Silicon Valley is obviously many ways the centre of the universe for tech investing. So in those places, I think it's insightful to look at what's worked there and to try and replicate that in other markets. And I think for Australia, technology is an incredible opportunity and I'm really thrilled at the progress and the amount of improvement that there's been over the last ten-twenty years. And as you said, I think the best is still to come.

深度对话科技领域最具影响力的创新领袖，独家解读全球主要及新兴生态圈数据与洞见，追踪全球最前沿的科技与开放式创新动态。每期节目精彩纷呈，欢迎收听《开放式创新对话》。

In-depth interviews with the most influential innovation executives of the tech arena. Exclusive data and insights on major and emerging ecosystems all around the world. The hottest news on technology and open innovation at a global level. This and much more in every new episode. Welcome to Open Innovation Talks.

跨越桥梁，与行业领袖对话。

Mind the bridge, chat with industry leaders.

这里是悉尼午间问候。我们很荣幸能录制又一期精彩访谈与深度对话。今天与我们探讨投资话题的是特斯拉创投董事总经理马修·柯克。马修，你好。

Good afternoon from Sydney here. We have the opportunity of recording another interesting interview and one of our minded chats. Today with us, we'll be talking about investments with Matthew Kurke, Managing Director of Tesla Ventures. Hi, Matthew.

你好，很高兴参加节目。

Hi, it's great to be here.

太好了。本周我们将有幸同台参与小组讨论——虽然你是本地人而我不是（我其实来自很远的地方），但「西南偏南」悉尼峰会正在举行，现场充满活力，新内容层出不穷，很多人专程飞赴参与。

Great. So we'll have the pleasure to be together on a panel this week. We are both I mean, you're local, I'm not. I'm actually pretty far, but South by Southwest Sydney is happening this week. So there's a lot of excitement, a lot of new content, people that flew in for that.

这是悉尼西南偏南音乐节十年合作计划的首届活动。能参与其中让我感到无比兴奋。马修，你觉得最近悉尼是否更有活力了，还是一直如此？

It's the first edition of what's supposed to be a ten year deal of South by Southwest in Sydney. Very, very excited to be part of that. So Matthew, do you feel that Sydney is a little bit more energised these days, or is it always like this?

不，这里绝对充满了惊人的活力。在悉尼街头漫步，西南偏南的标志随处可见。你能看到佩戴活动徽章的人群，各个场馆都人头攒动。整座城市涌动的能量和人气令人振奋。那些主题演讲也精彩非凡。

No, it's definitely got a fantastic buzz. I mean, just sort of walking around Sydney, I mean, South by South West is all over the city. You see lots of people with their tags, and you see lots of people in different venues. So it's great to see the energy and all of the people all over the city. The presentations have been great.

演讲嘉宾都极具启发性，我认为到目前为止这绝对是场出色的盛会。

The speakers have been really interesting, and I think it's been a really great event so far.

可能还有少数人不了解西南偏南——这个历史性的盛会不仅是创新领域的顶级会议，更是融合创新与创意内容的殿堂。这里有众多未来主题的演讲，汇聚全球前沿创新成果，同时越来越多的创意内容正与科技、人工智能、生成式AI等技术深度融合。整个城市遍布着可以欣赏电影或演唱会的多元场馆。

Yeah, for the two people that might not know what Salpa Satwas is, a historical conference, probably one of the, if not the top conference of not just innovation, but innovation and creative content as well. So there's a lot of futuristic talks. There's a lot of innovations that happened around here and around the world. But also there's a lot of creative content that more and more is associated with technology and AI and generative AI and whatnot. So the city is filled with many venues where you can watch, you know, movies or concerts.

活动内容极其丰富。能参与首届盛会让我倍感兴奋。现在让我们回归现实话题，聊聊风险投资，特别是企业风险投资。马修，或许你可以先简单介绍下自己的背景，以及如何进入CVC工作的经历。

So there is a lot going on. Very, very excited to be part of the of the first edition. All right. We're going to talk about venture capital here to to go back to earth and, in particular, corporate venture capital. So Matthew, maybe a little bit of your background, how you ended up working for CVC.

顺便说下，我可能念错了你的姓氏，听起来像是德国起源？不如我们就从这里开始聊起。

And as I mispronounce your last name, you sound German of origin, so maybe let's start from there.

没错。我最初是工程师背景，曾在工业领域工作多年，负责软硬件系统设计。后来我去读了商学院，在美国生活过一段时间，90年代末在麦格理银行进入风投行业。那是个激动人心的时代，互联网泡沫正在改变世界，我们投资组合中有许多令人振奋的公司——其中一些如今已成为市值数十亿的企业。我们经历过辉煌的成功，也遭遇过惨痛的失败，但无论好项目还是坏项目都让人获益良多。

Yeah, absolutely. So my background is originally in engineering, so I worked in the industry, you know, designing software and hardware systems you know, for a number of years. I ended up going to business school, I lived in The US for a bit and then started in the venture industry, in the late 90s, at Macquarie Bank. It was a very exciting time, to be in that industry because the whole .com, you know, sort of bubble was changing the world and we had some really, really exciting portfolio companies, you know, some of which are now multi billion dollar companies. So we had some spectacular wins, we had some spectacular failures, and you learn as much from the good companies as you do the bad companies.

那真是个了解投资的绝佳方式。之后我在德意志银行工作了多年。作为DB Capital Partners全球投资组合的一部分，我们管理着相当庞大的资产组合。我们管理着数十亿美元的基金和100多家被投企业，涵盖从机场到基础设施到私募股权乃至风险投资等各个领域。这真是一个深入了解商业运作、学习投资知识并大规模实践私募股权的绝佳机会。

So that was a wonderful way to get introduced into investing. I then worked at Deutsche Bank, for quite a few years. We had quite a large portfolio, as part of the DB Capital Partners portfolio globally. We had billions of dollars funds under management and over 100 portfolio companies, everything from airports to infrastructure to private equity and also a venture portfolio. So that was a fantastic opportunity to really learn about the business and to learn about investing and really doing private equity at scale.

后来德意志银行决定在全球范围内剥离大部分投资组合，于是我们陆续出售、剥离并处置了大量资产。到了2011年，澳洲电信开始考虑开展风险投资业务，最让我兴奋的是他们希望从零开始建立一套完整的风险投资体系。这创造了一个加入强大平台的绝佳机会，而且澳洲电信本身资金实力雄厚。就这样我们开启了创业旅程，真正从一张白纸开始打造了澳洲电信创投。

Deutsche Bank then ended up divesting, most of its portfolio globally, so we ended up, selling and divesting and managing out a bunch of assets. And then in 2011, Telstra started to, think about starting a venture business, and the thing that was very exciting to me is that they really wanted to build, you know, a venture capital practice from scratch, so that created an incredible opportunity to join a very powerful platform, and there was a lot of capital here at Telstra as well. So we started the journey and literally built Telstra Ventures from a clean sheet of paper.

确实是很棒的经历。我们稍后会详细探讨你们的创投架构，不过首先让我们聊聊澳洲电信——

Yeah, that's an awesome journey. We're going to go into more of the details of the venture, the way that you guys are structured. But let's talk about Telstra first for,

你

you

考虑到有些听众可能不熟悉澳大利亚市场，也不了解作为全球主要电信公司之一的澳洲电信。能否简单介绍一下澳洲电信的背景、规模、历史以及创新方面的重点？

know, the few participants here that are not familiar with Australia as a market and Telstra as one of main telco companies in the world. So a little bit of background of Telstra, the size, a little bit of history and focus in terms of innovation maybe.

当然可以。澳洲电信是澳大利亚最大的电信公司，提供包括移动通信、固网、数据服务在内的全方位通信服务。这家公司在澳大利亚证券交易所上市，市值约450亿澳元。澳洲电信在全球拥有大量资产，在澳大利亚以外的35个国家都设有分支机构。

Yeah, absolutely. Look, Telstra is Australia's largest telecommunications company. It offers a full range of communication services, everything from mobile fixed, data. It's a publicly listed company on the Australian Stock Exchange with a market cap of about $45,000,000,000 Telstra has a lot of assets around the globe. It has staff in 35 countries outside of Australia.

举例来说，澳洲电信拥有亚太地区最大的全资海底光缆网络，亚洲地区的很多数据流量都是通过其网络传输的。因此这是家业务版图庞大的企业，在澳大利亚占据主导地位的同时，其国际业务也颇具特色。

As an example, Telstra owns the largest wholly owned subsea, optical fibre, network, in the Asia Pacific, so a lot of the data traffic that goes through the Asian region runs on Telstra's networks. So it's a big company, a big footprint, obviously very big in Australia, but a pretty interesting international business as well.

你说风险投资是从大约十二年前开始的，可能还要更早一点？

And it started the venture capital, you said around, what is it, twelve years ago, little bit more?

没错。他们当时决定要更积极地参与早期科技和初创企业领域。于是他们招募了我和马克·谢尔曼——他是我的合伙人，也是Telstra Ventures的另一位管理合伙人。我们基本上获得了构建投资策略和投资组合的机会，此后规模大幅扩张。现在我们实际上已独立于Telstra，成为一家管理着15亿英镑资金的投资公司。

Exactly, yeah. So they decided that they really wanted to, you know, start becoming more active, with early stage technology and early stage companies. So they recruited, myself and Mark Sherman, who's my partner, the other managing partner of Telstra Ventures, and we pretty much had the opportunity to build, the investment strategy, the investment portfolio, and we've grown a lot since then. So we're now independent actually from Telstra. We're an investment capital firm with £1,500,000,000 funds under management.

如我所提到的，我们已运营十二年。目前完成了95笔投资（实际是96笔，今早刚敲定一单），其中38笔已实现流动性退出，感谢关注。我们已向有限合伙人返还了近10亿美元现金收益。投资者除Telstra外，还包括多家养老基金、澳大利亚的超级年金基金、机构投资者及家族办公室。我们在澳美两地有约20名员工，主要投资方向是变革行业的AI、数字及软件公司。

We've been operating, as I mentioned, for twelve years. We've made 95 investments actually 96, we closed one, this morning. We've had, 38 liquidity investments so far thank you and we've almost realised $1,000,000,000 in cash, which we've distributed back to our limited partners. Our investors include obviously Telstra, we have a number of pension funds, some of the superannuation funds here in Australia, institutional investors and also some family offices. We have about 20 people who are based in Australia and The US, Our investment focus is predominantly around AI, digital, software companies that are transforming sectors.

我们专注于A轮和B轮投资，偶尔也会参与后期轮次。投资组合表现优异，拥有15家独角兽企业，包括现已上市的CrowdStrike、DocuSign、GitLab和Snapchat等。

We focus on series A and B, we sometimes invest a little bit later. And our portfolio has done super well, we've got 15 unicorns in our portfolio, some of which include CrowdStrike, DocuSign, GitLab and Snapchat, which are all now publicly listed companies.

这发展轨迹确实令人惊叹。我有几个问题：首先，我们看到许多电信关联企业风投（CVC）逐渐式微，尤其在硅谷——比如沃达丰、西班牙电信这些国际巨头，还有AT&T、T-Mobile等本土企业。但大多数似乎都已退出CVC实验，为何Telstra能取得显著成功？

Yeah, that's a fantastic progression here. I've got a couple of questions here in the onset. Number one is the we've seen a lot of CVCs connected to telcos just fading away over time, particularly in Silicon Valley where, you know, there are a few, you know, don't think I'm saying anything wrong here, but the Vodafone of the world, even the Telefonica, just to talk about the major international and plus the locals that are, you know, the AT and T and T Mobile. But It seems that most of them now have moved away from the experiment of CVC. What do you think is that and why instead Telstra has had such a notable success?

我认为是多重因素。Telstra做得很好的一点是：它让真正具备风投经验的人与深谙Telstra业务的人紧密结合。风投是个复杂微妙的行业，而电信企业本身也庞大复杂。成功关键在于既要有成功的投资能力，又要符合公司战略目标——这个平衡非常难把握。很多企业风投要么缺乏投资能力，要么投资者与公司业务脱节。

Look, think it's a combination of things. I think one of the things that Telstra has done really well is it's married a few people who really had a lot of experience and track record in venture capital with a bunch of people who really understood Telstra, Because venture capital is a very complicated and nuanced industry, but telcos are also really big companies and very complicated. So I think one of the success criteria is really having that combination of having successful investing, but also successful strategic purpose for the company. And I think that's a really, really hard balance. And I think a lot of corporate venture sometimes doesn't have very good investment skills, sometimes it has very good investors, but they're not plugged into the company very well.

因此这两方面的协同至关重要。Telstra早期的远见就在于确保能平衡二者，这正是我们的成功之处。我见过太多企业风投因无法把握这种平衡而举步维艰。

So I think having those two things working together in concert is really critical. And I think the foresight that Telstra had early on is making sure that they really could balance those two things. And I think that's been successful for us, and I've seen many corporate venture groups have a lot of trouble and it's usually because, you know, that balance is not right.

你们最初是作为外部实体成立的，还是经历了一个逐步演变的过程？从资产负债表外投资开始，到最初唯一的有限合伙人Telstra，现在你们管理着多个LP，这代表着许多CBC的下一阶段发展。这段历史是怎样的？

And were you created from the very beginning as an external entity, or there was kind of an evolution that happened over time from the, you know, you know, investing off balance sheet and then eventually with the one LP that was Telstra. Now you're managing and you're you're saying that you have multiple LPs, which is the next evolution of a number of CBCs out there. So what's been the history there?

确实如此。我们最初是Telstra的员工，2011年时业务还挂在Telstra的资产负债表上，前七年都采用这种模式运营。2018年我们进行了法律重组，引入了大型机构投资者Harbourvest作为合作伙伴，他们一直表现得非常出色。基本上从那时起...

Absolutely. Yeah, look, we definitely started as employees, on the Telstra balance sheet, in 2011, and for the first seven years of our existence we were operating in that model. In 2018 we ended up doing a legal restructure, which involved Harbourvest, who is a big institutional investor and they've been a magnificent partner with us. Basically Is at that point

是私募股权对吧？

it private equity, right?

大型私募股权集团没错，他们是经验丰富的机构投资者，之前完成过多次类似交易。2018年重组时，我们将所有资产从Telstra资产负债表转移到基金中，同时引入了其他机构投资者和大量新资金，这样既能延续原有业务模式，又能平衡新投资者的权益。这次重组最终创建了新基金，之后我们又募集了另一只基金，这是非常重要的演进过程。

Big private equity Yes, group, it's a big institutional private equity investor. Very experienced, they've done a number of these transactions before. So in 2018 we ended up doing a restructure where we moved all of the assets from the Telstra balance sheet into a fund, and we also, brought in some additional, institutional investors at that point, and a whole lot of new capital so we could continue the business the same way as we had before, but also having the balance of some additional institutional investors. So that ended up creating a new fund. We've since then raised another fund, and that's been an important evolution over time.

我们可能明年会再次进入市场募集第四只基金。Telstra在所有基金中都给予了极大支持，但显然我们现在有了其他投资者的资金来源，这对Telstra也是好事——不必独自承担所有资金压力，毕竟资金总是稀缺的，Telstra可以用这些钱做很多其他事情。

We'll go back to market probably next year sometime to raise our fund number four. Telstra's still been a very, very supportive partner in all of these different funds, but obviously we've now got capital sources from other investors, which is a benefit for Telstra because it doesn't have to basically provide all of the capital on its own because capital is always scarce and there's lots of other things that Telstra can do with that money.

但你们肯定看到了品牌价值对吧？否则早就改名了。现在仍叫Telstra Ventures，我猜LP也还是Encore。所以问题是：大多数情况下Telstra品牌是资产优势，但有时是否也会成为潜在问题，对你们想投资的成长型企业造成负担？

But you must be seeing the value of the branding out there, right? Because otherwise you would have changed the name here instead. It's still Telstra Ventures. I assume it's still the Encore LP, but I get so the question is, is it most of the time an asset coming with the Telstra branding or might that be at times also, you know, potential issues or burden with some of the scale ups you want to invest in?

确实如此。有人喜欢Telstra，也有人不喜欢。就像大多数大企业一样，人们有正面或负面的体验，这自然会影响品牌认知。总体而言，品牌对我们非常有利，我们仍是Telstra生态的一部分——我现在就在Telstra办公室，还能利用其众多资源和能力。有件事值得探讨：我们与Telstra业务部门的协作方式相当独特，已经发展出一套非常有趣的合作模式。

Absolutely. Look, some people love Telstra, some people don't. You know, like most big companies, there are people who've got positive and negative experiences, and that obviously shapes the perception of the brand. I think on balance for us, the brand has been very positive, and we're still part of Telstra's ecosystem I'm the Telstra office here and we still have a lot of the capabilities and resources at Telstra, which is very beneficial. One of the things we should talk about is how we engage with the Telstra business units, and that's pretty unique I think for us, because we've developed quite an interesting model.

这对Telstra和我们以及我们的投资组合公司来说都非常重要。这也是我认为它运作良好的另一个原因。但确实，有些人有时会显得谨慎，因此最终我们会让大多数潜在CEO与现有投资组合公司交流，了解我们的合作方式以及Telstra能提供或不能提供的帮助。大多数情况下这都非常成功。所以总体而言，这对我们来说是个非常有利的方案。

So that's something that's been very important to Telstra and to us, and also our portfolio companies. So that's another reason why I think that that's worked well. But look, some people definitely are sometimes a little cautious, so at the end of the day we refer most of our prospective CEOs to talk to our existing portfolio companies to see what we're like to work with and how Telstra can or can't help. Most of the time that's very successful. So I think on balance it's been a very good proposition for us.

看起来确实如此。我想问的典型后续问题是战略回报与财务回报的侧重关系，经典答案当然是两者兼顾。我从你们官网或领英资料上看到第一句话就写着'特斯拉创投为投资组合公司带来协同收入，同时为有限合伙人创造财务回报'。开宗明义就表明你们既注重战略价值又追求财务回报，是这样吗？

It looks like it. And what is the I mean, the typical questions and follow on question here is strategic versus financial returns and the focus, and I think the classical answer is both. I'm reading here from your website or from your LinkedIn profile the first sentence that Tesla Ventures offers synergy revenues to its portfolio companies and financial returns to its limited partners. So it's in the first sentence that you want to be both strategic and financially focused. Is that so?

完全正确。我们确实会优先考虑财务回报，但同时也会尽可能与投资组合公司保持深度战略合作。这种合作模式从第一天起就至关重要。我们的独特之处在于始终积极帮助被投企业创收——自Telstra创投成立首日就开始追踪这项指标。最令人振奋的数据是：我们已为1600家企业客户（包括许多Telstra客户如大型银行、航空公司、零售商、工业巨头甚至政府机构）的被投企业创造了近7.5亿美元收入。为此我们专门设立团队，全力协助被投企业接入Telstra的客户生态与销售渠道来创收。

Absolutely. And look, we would prioritise financial returns first, but at the same time we also try to be, you know, very highly engaged strategically with our portfolio companies where we can be. That sort of engagement has been very critical from day one for us. One of the things that differentiates us is that we've actually been very active in helping our portfolio companies generate revenue, and we've been measuring this from the very first day since we started Telstra Ventures, and one of the numbers that we're very excited about is that we've actually generated almost 3 quarters of a billion dollars of revenue for our portfolio companies across 1,600 enterprise customers, which include many Telstra customers such as large banks, airlines, retailers, big industrial companies and even government agencies. And, within Telstra Ventures we have a dedicated team who spend 100% of their time helping our portfolio companies plug into that Telstra ecosystem of customers and sales channels, to basically help our portfolio companies generate revenue.

我们还与约20家渠道伙伴紧密合作，借此触达更多地域和行业。正如所言，我们从第一天就开始追踪收入数据：十二年前起步时首年仅30万美元，如今年化收入已达1.5亿美元，预计18-24个月内将突破10亿美元大关。这些实实在在的增量收入正是创业者最珍视的价值所在。

We've also got about 20 other channel partners with whom we work very closely, and they help us reach other geographies, other sectors, and so forth. The revenue, as I mentioned, is something we've been measuring from day one, and it's grown from a very humble $300,000 in the first year when we started twelve years ago, and we're currently at a run rate of about $150,000,000 So we're going to cross the billion dollar mark probably in about eighteen months or maybe two years. So we're very excited about that because this is all incremental revenue that goes to our portfolio companies, which is something that entrepreneurs really value and get really excited about.

确实很少有风投或企业风投能做到这点。明确一下，这些增量收入直接源于你们作为合作伙伴（不仅是资金方）为其接入庞大生态系统的能力？

Yeah, and not very many VCs or CVCs actually are accounting for that. So to be clear, this is incremental revenues that your portfolio companies have associated to you being a partner, not just the financial partners, but also the fact that, you know, you can plug them into your vast ecosystem?

千真万确。所有这些增量收入都来自我们通过Telstra销售体系将被投企业引入Telstra客户或其他渠道伙伴。这类合作通常从概念验证开始：先引荐，再做POC，验证成功后转化为销售，往往还能进一步拓展商机。很多客户对采购初创企业产品心存顾虑，但Telstra作为年交易额数亿的大企业品牌，能让他们更放心地打包采购附加产品——毕竟都是Telstra背书的老熟人。通过这个平台，我们帮被投企业拿下了许多初创公司难以企及的客户。

Absolutely, yes. So all of these are incremental revenue dollars where we've helped use the Telstra sales organisation to plug our portfolio companies into Telstra customers or some of our other channel partners, and these are all deals that usually start as a proof of concept. I mean, first of all, there's like an introduction, then there's a proof of concept, that proof of concept then usually turns into a sale, and then often there's an opportunity to upsell and turn that into larger revenue opportunities. And a lot of customers are very cautious in buying from early stage companies, and one of the things that is beneficial about the Telstra brand, it's a very big company, so a lot companies that are already spending hundreds of millions of dollars with Telstra, it's very easy for them to actually bundle some additional products and buy some additional capability, because it's on Telstra paper and it's all very familiar. One of the things that's been very helpful is that we've been able to introduce customers through the Telstra platform that a lot of other start up companies probably would have had a pretty difficult time closing.

那么我们来聊聊具体流程。你之前提到从最初就与特斯拉业务部门保持互动，这个流程是如何结构化与规范化的？

So let's talk about the process here. You were mentioning before alluding to the engagement with the Tesla business units from the beginning. What is the process and how structured is that and formalized?

是的，所以你看，有时候很正式，有时候则更随意。这真的取决于公司和机会。Telstra有大量客户经理负责管理不同的客户关系。有时会举办众多客户和客户经理参与的会议，我们可以在会上介绍一些投资组合公司。我们举办很多圆桌会议，Telstra也举办大型会议来展示我们的投资组合公司。

Yeah, so look, sometimes it's quite formal, sometimes it's more informal. It really depends on the company, on the opportunity. Telstra has a huge number of account managers that manage different customer relationships. Sometimes there's a meeting of a whole bunch of different customers and the account managers where we can introduce some of our portfolio companies. We do a lot of roundtable events Telstra does a lot of big conferences where we showcase our portfolio companies.

我们与所有渠道合作伙伴也签订了转售协议，所以有些安排其实相当正式，但有些则更具机会性。这完全取决于交易本身、客户需求以及具体情况。有些机会从最初构想到最终成交需要很长时间，所以这真的取决于具体情境。

We have reseller agreements with all of our channel partners as well, so some of these are actually quite formal arrangements, but some of them are also much more opportunistic. So it really just depends on the deal, it depends on the customer, it depends on what's needed. And some of these opportunities take a long time to come from an initial idea to a sale, so sometimes that can take a while, so it really just depends on the specific situation.

需要明确的是，这是为了支持你们现有的投资组合公司。你们已经进行了投资，现在为了给主要LP和投资组合公司增值，正在尝试建立业务发展渠道。但你们从不从业务部门出发来决定投资方向，或是基于Telstra业务中存在的明确痛点来寻找解决方案，然后将其转化为投资组合公司。

And to be clear, this is to support your already existing portfolio companies. So you already made an investment and now, you know, to add value both to your major LP, but also to your portfolio companies, you're trying to create business development channels. But you never start from the business units to define where to invest or what can be a real clear pain that Telstra as a business has in order to find a solution then eventually to turn it into a portfolio company.

没错。不过话说回来，我们确实经常与业务部门沟通。我们与公司内部数百人保持着非常紧密的关系，定期进行电话会议，特别是与一些工程团队讨论他们正在关注的技术和解决方案。有时我们会一起考察项目，有时我们向他们推荐机会，有时他们向我们引荐机会。所以这完全取决于实际需求。

That's right. Although having said that, we do often speak I mean, we speak to the business units all the time. You know, we have very strong relationships, literally with hundreds of people across the organisation, and we do regular calls where we talk about, especially for instance, some of the engineering groups, what kind of technologies they're looking at, what kind of solutions they're looking for. And, sometimes, you know, we do go out and we look at things together, sometimes we introduce opportunities to them, sometimes they introduce opportunities to us. So it really depends on, you know, what is needed.

但我们不会先寻找协同效应再进行投资。我们有些投资组合公司并没有战略关联。有时需要几年时间才能推进合作，所以我们可能会投资一家极具前瞻性的公司，虽然当前没有合作机会，但一两年后可能会出现。这完全视情况而定，因此我之前说过，我们的首要任务是实现财务回报。如果能在此基础上增加战略价值当然更好，但我们仍会坚持投资那些能带来最佳财务回报的项目，这是我们战略中非常重要的一部分。

But we don't operate in a way where we look for synergy first and then make an investment after that. So there are a bunch of our portfolio companies where there is no, strategic, connection. Sometimes it takes a couple of years to actually progress that, so we may invest in a very forward looking company where there's no opportunity to do anything today, but maybe in a year or two there will be. So it really depends, and that's why I said earlier that the number one priority for us is, you know, to make financial returns. And then if we can add some of the strategic, benefits on the back of that, then that's fantastic, but we will, you know, we will still make investments that we believe are the best financial outcomes, and that's like a really important part of our strategy.

或许你可以举几个例子，说明通过你们提供的渠道最终实现显著扩张的投资组合公司。

Maybe it could be easier if you can make a couple of examples of entities, your portfolio companies that eventually scale significantly through that channel that you provided.

当然可以。我们有一项非常成功的投资是名为CrowdStrike的公司。CrowdStrike提供网络安全终端保护。网络安全对我们来说是个非常重要且有趣的领域，我们在这方面投入了大量时间。

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, look, one investment that was a very successful investment for us is a company called CrowdStrike. CrowdStrike provides endpoint protection for cybersecurity. Cybersecurity is a really important problem and a really interesting space, you know, obviously for us. It's an area where we spend a lot of time.

我们的一位投资经理是该领域的专家，我们通常会考察特定主题下所有获得融资的公司。在这个特定领域，我们同样这么做了，并认为CrowdStrike是最具潜力的企业。最终我们投资了该公司，向他们介绍了我们帮助其开拓市场和获取客户的能力。我们与CEO、部分董事会成员及投资者进行了深入交流，他们非常认可我们的理念，于是我们完成了投资。我们协助他们对接了多家澳洲电信客户及澳洲电信公司本身，成效显著。这段合作关系最终为公司带来了可观的收入，对方也对我们的合作给予了高度评价。

One of our investment managers, is an expert in the field and we typically look at every single company that's been funded, you know, in a particular thematic. You know, we did that, also in this particular space and we decided that CrowdStrike was the most interesting business. We ended up investing in the company, we told them about some of our capabilities to help them go to market and to identify customers. We basically talked to the CEO, we talked to some of the board members and some of the investors, and they ended up really liking the story and then we ended up investing and we really did a very nice job helping them introduce them to a bunch of different Telstra customers, and also Telstra itself. That ended up closing the company, generated quite a lot of revenue from the back of that relationship, and the company made some very nice comments about our working relationship.

CrowdStrike最终成功上市，对我们而言这不仅是一笔非常成功的财务投资，同时也是极具战略意义的投资。因为我们切实帮助他们获取客户、创造收入，并成功拓展了澳大利亚市场，这段经历令人振奋。

CrowdStrike ultimately went public and it's been a very, very successful investment for us, but it's also been a very successful strategic investment as well, because it's sort of an example where we were really able to help them get customers, get them revenue and really help them in the Australian market, which has been very exciting.

你们投资组合中有公司最终被澳洲电信收购吗？

Did any of your portfolio companies end up being acquired by Telstra?

我认为这种情况几乎不会发生。虽然曾经有过一次先例，但那已是多年前的事了。我们与投资组合公司大多保持一定距离——在我们经历的38次退出中，超过十次是通过IPO，其余多为被第三方并购。所以这种情况应该不多，但理论上存在可能性。

So there's been so I think that will almost never happen. It did happen once, but that was a long time ago. I think most of our relationships, with our portfolio companies will stay at arm's length, And, most of the time, I mean, out of the 38, exits that we've had, I think probably there have been over a dozen IPOs and the majority have been M and A, you know, by other people. So I don't think there's going to be a lot of that, but I guess it's possible in theory.

确实。2023年不谈AI是不可能的。与其泛泛而谈，我想问个实际问题：你们近期是否因AI工具的应用而改变了内部流程？如果有，具体是怎样的？

Right. Okay, so we cannot have a conversation in 2023 if we're not mentioning AI. So rather than talking generically, one very practical question is I wonder that's what has happened, for example, to us and I guess to many companies but did any of your internal process change lately with the use of AI tools? If yes, how?

当然。AI正在深刻改变世界，ChatGPT显然让全球都意识到了AI的潜力。但我们布局AI领域已有多年，机器学习与AI早已融入内部流程。六年前我们就成立了数据科学团队，开发了多种工具辅助投资筛选、企业对标，甚至部分尽职调查也通过AI完成。

Yeah, absolutely. So look, AI is making a massively profound impact on the world, and ChatGPT obviously has really raised global awareness of AI. But we've been investing in AI for many years, so the space is not a new space for us. We also have been very excited about using machine learning and AI within our own internal process as well. We established a data science team more than six years ago, and over that time we've built a whole bunch of really interesting tools which help our team source investments, we benchmark companies, and we also do even some of our due diligence process through that AI and machine learning.

我们运用覆盖超百万家企业的数十个数据集，通过分析这些公司的数字痕迹，AI系统会对企业进行评级并向投资团队推荐标的。通常每月会筛选出数百家企业，经团队评估后锁定最看好的目标。令人振奋的是，最近三笔投资都源自数据科学团队的发现。虽然数据科学无法取代人类决策，但它已成为我们日益倚重的强大工具——正如前所述，这是我们持续投入的领域，目前仍处于发展初期。

So we use more than a few dozen data sets which cover more than a million companies, and we've been using that to measure the digital exhaust from all of these companies. And then the AI, basically ranks all of these companies and then makes recommendations to our investment team on what companies we should be targeting. So typically we get a few 100 companies, you know, every month, and then our investment team looks through those companies, we find the companies that we're most excited about and then we'll approach those companies. And what's particularly exciting to me is that three out of our last investments were actually identified from data science. So I don't think data science is ever going to replace humans, but, you know, it's definitely a very powerful toolset, and, it's something that we're using more and more, and as I mentioned, you know, we've been investing for this for quite a while, so this is sort of a journey that we've been, progressing for some time, and it's a very exciting one, and I think it's still very early days.

很高兴听说你们在早期就入局了，对吧？六年前作为风投，能拥有一个或多个数据科学家。你说过所有这些人，所有数据科学家都属于你们的TensorFlow Ventures团队或是Yes的一部分。

It's great to hear that you started kind of early in the game, right? So six years ago as a VC, to have a data scientist or more than one. You said all those the people, all the data scientists are within your TensorFlow Ventures team or is part of Yes.

我们有一个专门的数据科学团队，他们自主开发了所有工具。正如我提到的，我们已使用这套系统六年了，最棒的是他们在持续迭代更新，添加新功能和特性，同时我们也发现了新的应用场景。现在我们甚至利用数据科学为投资组合公司寻找潜在客户，数据科学和机器学习能为我们带来许多额外价值，这非常有帮助。

We have a dedicated data science team, and they've built all of the tools themselves. So we've been using that, as I mentioned, for six years, and the thing that's great is that they're continually evolving and adding new features and adding functionality, and also we're finding new applications. So we're also using data science now to actually source potential customers for our portfolio companies, so there's a lot of additional things that we can actually do using data science and machine learning, which has been super helpful.

是的，我很想线下详聊，因为我们也在使用部分类似工具。好的，我们来谈谈澳大利亚。如果我没记错的话，当前基金的重点——虽然不占绝对多数，但大部分投资还是在美国对吧？不过澳大利亚作为本土市场也很重要。请谈谈你们的全球布局观，我记得你们在旧金山、悉尼和上海都设有办公室。

Yeah, I would love to hear more offline then because we're also using some of those tools as well. All right, let's talk about Australia. And I think the focus of I think the current fund, if I'm not mistaken, I mean, vast majority of investments not the vast majority, maybe the majority of investment happens in US, right? But obviously Australia is a home country as well. So tell us how you look at the globe internationally and you do have offices in San Francisco, Sydney and Shanghai, I believe.

你们如何划分全球市场？为什么选择这些地点？

How do you split the world and why those locations?

完全正确。我们主要寻找所关注领域内的全球领军企业。通常我们会先锁定主题方向，然后研究该领域所有获投公司，最终选择投资该赛道的领导者。如果他们在硅谷，很好；如果在以色列，也很好。

Absolutely, so we basically try and find the world leading companies in the sectors that we are covering. So typically, you know, we tend to, look at thematic areas. We will then look at all the companies that have been funded in a particular area, and then we will try and fund the companies that are leading, in that field. And if they happen to be in Silicon Valley, that's great. If they happen to be in Israel, that's great.

如果在澳大利亚，同样很好。我们显然不想过度分散精力，但绝对会追逐最佳机会所在。澳大利亚的生态系统非常重要——就像我们提到的西南偏南大会，这里人才济济、活力充沛，是个非常有趣的市场，许多关键基础要素都已具备。

If they happen to be in Australia, that's great. So we obviously are not trying to, you know, spread ourselves too thinly, but, you know, we are absolutely going where we think the best opportunities lie. And look, the Australian, ecosystem is a really important one. There's definitely, you know, we talked about South By Southwest, there's a huge amount of people, there's a huge amount of energy, and I think Australia is a really interesting market. A lot of the really critical building blocks are here.

这里有强大的教育体系和顶尖大学，成熟的商业环境，所有科技巨头如谷歌、微软、亚马逊都在此设立机构。大学、联邦科工组织以及私营企业都进行着高水平研发。澳大利亚人民也充满雄心壮志，文化多元且才华横溢。稳定的法律体系与政府治理，加上过去十年间显著改善的资本环境，这些必要条件都已齐备。

There's a very strong education system, leading universities, there's a very strong commercial industry, all the big tech companies are here Google, Microsoft, Amazon. You know, there's a lot of very strong research and development, you know, the universities, CSIRO, private industry. You know, I think the Australian, people also are very ambitious, you know, cultural, and talented. So I think, you know, a lot of those attributes that are needed are there. It's a very stable legal system and government, you know, and also the capital, in Australia has also dramatically improved, especially over the last decade.

你知道，风险投资、机构投资者如超级基金、天使投资人和连续创业者现在都在投资这个生态系统。我认为所有这些因素共同极大地推动了行业发展，同时也确实提高了标准。而且，我认为像Atlassian和Canva这样的成功案例非常鼓舞人心，因为它们证明了澳大利亚也能诞生出色的科技公司和创新技术。所以，我认为当前势头强劲，未来还有更多机会。

You know, venture capital, institutional investors such as super funds, you know, angel investors and serial entrepreneurs are now all investing in the ecosystem. And I think all of these factors together have really dramatically grown the industry, but also, you know, have, have really lifted the bar, you know, and, and I think there's some really exciting success stories like Atlassian and Canva, you know, which I think are very inspirational to entrepreneurs and investors, you know, because there's definitely some really amazing, technology and companies that have come from Australia. So I think there's a lot of momentum and a lot of opportunity to do more of that.

是的，而且最好的还在后头，对吧？因为这些企业尚未上市，巨额投资回报仍有待释放。但不得不说，虽然我只来了几天，但这里生态系统的活力是能真切感受到的。

Yeah. And the best is still to come yet, right? Because those entities have not gone public yet. The big returns of investment still need to proliferate. But I have to say that here, I've been a couple of days, but the excitement that you feel around this ecosystem is palpable.

不仅如此，更重要的是各方力量似乎形成了合力。其中一个主要——我不确定是否是最主要的，但肯定很重要——就是政府。说到政府，我特指现在悉尼和新南威尔士的地方政府，他们也是西南偏南大会的支持者和赞助商之一，还是我们的合作伙伴。你认为政府机构能在多大程度上加速这种本就会发生、但可能需要推动的运动？你觉得政策制定者对这个生态系统的发展起到了多大的助推作用？

It's not just that, it's the fact that it feels like there is an alignment of the different actors. One of the main I don't know if it's the main one, but definitely an important one is also government. When I say government, I'm talking specifically about the local governments here now in Sydney and New South Wales as one of the also the supporters of the sponsors of the South by Southwest as well as one of our partners. So how much do you think that a government agency can help the acceleration of a movement that would happen, but maybe not force? How much do you think is behind policymakers for this acceleration of the ecosystem?

是的，我认为一个创新环境要非常成功，确实需要之前提到的所有要素，政府是其中重要但非唯一的一环。政府最擅长的是尽可能减少行业中的摩擦，这样才能吸引最优秀的企业家、科学家和投资者来到澳大利亚或其他任何地方。要知道，世界上还有其他成功范例——

Yeah, look, I think for an innovation environment to be very successful, I think you really need all the things that we talked about before, and government is one piece. I think it's an important piece, but it's not the only piece. I think one of the things that governments can do very well is to remove as much friction out of the industry as possible. So in order to attract the best entrepreneurs, the best scientists, the best investors, you know, to come to Australia or wherever that environment is. And look, there are other places in the world.

以色列就非常成功，硅谷显然在很多方面是科技投资的世界中心。研究这些地方的成功经验并尝试在其他市场复制很有价值。对澳大利亚来说，科技是绝佳机遇，过去一二十年的进步和提升让我非常振奋。正如你所说，最好的阶段还在前方。

Israel has been very successful. Silicon Valley is obviously many ways the centre of the universe for tech investing. So in those places, I think it's insightful to look at what's worked there and to try and replicate that in other markets. I think for Australia, technology is an incredible opportunity and I'm really thrilled at the progress and the amount of improvement that there's been over the last ten, twenty years. And as you said, I think the best is still to come.

你觉得澳大利亚的初创企业或创新在哪些特定领域或市场可能比其他地区更具优势？

Is there any particular area or markets that you think that, you know, the Australian startups or innovation can have, know, be more advanced than other geographies?

这其实取决于企业家的专业程度。澳大利亚已经诞生了不少企业——我们之前举过Atlassian和Canva的例子，还有其他许多最终成为全球行业领袖的公司。最好的创意可能来自任何地方，而澳大利亚已经培育出多个世界领先的创新企业，未来肯定还会出现更多。所以我认为这里确实存在巨大的发展空间和机遇。

Look, I think it really depends on, you know, the entrepreneurs, how knowledgeable they are. I mean, look, there've been a bunch of companies which started from Australia, you know, we listed a couple examples before, you know, Atlassian, Canva, and there are many other examples, you know, where they basically ended up being a very successful global leader. And, you know, I think, you know, the best ideas can come from anywhere. And I think Australia has, you know, created a few really interesting companies which are now world leading, and, you know, I think there'll be more of those, you know. So I think there's definitely, a lot of scope, and a lot of opportunity to do more of that.

这是一个相当广泛、覆盖面广的浏览器主题，我们会观察它的发展走向。

And it's a pretty broad, ranging, you know, browser thematic, so we'll see how that evolves.

是的，更多细节方面，我们明天将发布关于澳大利亚TechScale应用生态系统的报告。其中会有不同生态系统的对比分析，相关内容也会明确呈现。马修，感谢你抽空参与。我期待看到这一领域的进展。目前我对市场的发展方向感到特别振奋。

Yeah, for more details, we are publishing our reports about the TechScale app ecosystem of Australia tomorrow. So some of those, you know, comparative analysis of different ecosystems will be also explicit there. So, Matthew, thanks for your time. Looking forward to seeing how this evolves. But so far, I've been particularly excited about where the market is headed.

再次感谢，我们很快会再联系。

So thanks again and talk to you soon.

是的，非常感谢。这次交流非常愉快。我在风投行业工作已超过二十年，每天能与这么多通过思想领导力改变世界的杰出创业者共事，都让我深感谦卑。能参与这段旅程并助力这些卓越公司成长，实在令人兴奋。

Yeah. Thank you so much. Look, it's been great to talk to you. You know, I've been working in the venture industry for more than twenty years, I'm humbled every day to work with so many amazing entrepreneurs who are literally changing the world through their thought leadership. So it's very exciting to be part of that journey and to help fuel some of these amazing companies.

继续保持出色表现。谢谢。

Keep up. Good job. Thank you.

谢谢，再见。

Thank you. Bye bye.

感谢大家今天的参与，我们下期《开放创新对话：Mind the Bridge行业领袖访谈》再见。

Thank you for being with us today and see you in the next episode of Open Innovation Talks Mind the Bridge Chat with Industry Leaders.