第21集 - 为何（企业）加速器会失败

初创企业往往转瞬即逝。它们要么被收购，要么倒闭，要知道大多数都无法成功。这是一个发展极快的领域。但创始人不同。创始人会长期存在。

Startups go away fast. Either they get acquired, they shut down, you know, most of them do not succeed. It's something that just evolves super quick. The founder is not. The founder is something that stays for a long time.

对这些顶尖创始人和技术变革者的投资，在多年后仍极具价值。即使某个具体项目未能成功合作，我们也能从中获得对世界的认知。通过与他们的互动，我们可能与投资方建立了更紧密的关系，因为为初创企业创造了价值。但我们还收获了另一位大使。

The investment in these top founders, in these top tech transformers is highly, highly valuable for many, many years. So even if that specific startup, we may not have been successful in doing something specific with them. We may have learned something about the world for engaging with them. We probably built a better relationship with the VC that invested in them because we created value for the startup. But we created another ambassador.

他在英特尔结识了一群人。这些人行动迅速，能实实在在地把事情搞定（请原谅我的用词）。这让我们明白，我们合作的基本单位不是初创企业，而是创业者，是开发者。

And he met a bunch of people at Intel. They're actually fast moving and they could do, they could get, excuse my English, they could get shit done. And that's the understanding that the atomic unit that we're working with is not a startup. It's an entrepreneur. It's a developer.

是那些会不断重复创业的人。即使退出后，他们可能收购公司，可能投资企业。我们希望成为他们事业的一部分。

It's someone that is gonna do it again and again and again. Or if they exited, they may acquire companies, they may invest in companies. We want to be part of them.

深度对话科技领域最具影响力的创新领袖，独家解读全球主要及新兴生态系统的数据与洞见，追踪全球科技与开放创新的前沿动态。每期节目精彩纷呈，欢迎收听《开放创新对话》。

In-depth interviews with the most influential innovation executives of the tech arena. Exclusive data and insights on major and emerging ecosystems all around the world. The hottest news on technology and open innovation at a global level. This and much more in every new episode. Welcome to Open Innovation Talks.

关注Mind the bridge，与行业领袖畅谈。

Mind the bridge, chat with industry leaders.

今天我很荣幸邀请到英特尔Ignite项目副总裁Zach Weisfeld。欢迎你，Zach。

Today, I have the pleasure to have with me Zach Weisfeld. Zach is vice president of Intel Ignite. Welcome, Zach.

你好，谢谢。非常感谢邀请我来参加。

Hi, thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

所以，Zach，我认为快速交代背景非常重要。再次谈到开放创新、与初创企业合作以及英特尔的话题——英特尔创造了这段非常近期的历史，这再次被称为开放创新。英特尔的创新方式，我认为，如果有本关于开放创新的传记的话，会是人们研究的案例之一。所以或许我们应该先给观众简要介绍一下英特尔，以及英特尔在开放创新领域的主导地位，然后我们再把话题聚焦到Intel Ignite这个你们需要的项目上。

So, Zach, I think it's super important just to give a quick context. Again, talking about open innovation, talking about dealing with startups and talking about Intel, again, Intel has made the history of something that is super recent, it's called open innovation again. The Intel way of innovating has been one of the, I think, things that people study in the book, if there would be a sort of biography of open innovation. So probably it might be good just to provide to our audience a quick overview about Intel and what Intel has been the dominant approach of open innovation, and then we'll definitely focus our conversation on Intel Ignite, that is the program that you need.

当然。再次感谢能参与这次播客或视频访谈。如您所说，我是Zach Weisfeld，负责Intel Ignite项目，这是英特尔针对早期初创企业的计划。正如您提到的，英特尔与初创企业合作已有多年历史，并通过多种方式推动开放创新。英特尔可能拥有全球最活跃的企业风投基金之一。

Sure. So again, great to be on this podcast or videocast. As mentioned, my name is Zach Weisfeld and I run Intel Ignite, which is Intel's early stage startup program. And as you mentioned, Intel has been doing work with startups for many, many years and have open innovation vehicles in a variety of ways. Intel has probably one of the most active corporate venture funds in the world.

以英特尔资本为例，它已成立约三十年，是非常活跃的企业风投基金。我们强大的企业发展与业务拓展部门长期与初创企业合作，涉及技术授权和并购标的寻找。多年来我们完成了大量收购。如果再往前追溯，很多人说英特尔是'将硅带入硅谷'的公司，对吧？所以我们在这个领域已有非常悠久的历史。

If you look at Intel Capital, it's been around four thirty years, very active corporate venture fund. We have strong corporate development and business development arms that have worked with startups on licensing and finding companies for acquisition. We've made a lot of acquisitions throughout the years. And even if we go even earlier than that, a lot of people say that Intel is the company that put Silicon in Silicon Valley, right? So we've been in that space for a very, very long time.

Ignite项目的工作标志着我们与初创企业合作方式的转变。或许我先简单介绍一下自己。我人生大部分时间都在创业，约三十年里创立过不同领域的公司，从软件到SaaS再到硬件。其中八年在美国硅谷，其余时间在以色列，现在驻特拉维夫。

The work that Ignite does is a bit of a shift in the way we operate with startups, right? And maybe I'll give you a little bit of background on myself. So I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, about thirty years building companies, startups from different areas, different from software to SaaS to hardware. Eight years in Silicon Valley, the rest in Israel. I'm in Tel Aviv now.

我还曾负责微软初创企业计划，建立了微软加速器项目，覆盖班加罗尔、北京、上海、柏林、伦敦、巴黎、西雅图、悉尼和特拉维夫等地，管理着遍布110个国家的微软初创企业计划。2019年，英特尔前CEO鲍勃·斯旺邀请我加入英特尔并在此建立类似机制——如何更深入地连接初创企业？你知道，在与大企业交流时，我常用一张幻灯片说明为何要与初创企业合作。

And I used to run also Microsoft for startups. I built the Microsoft accelerators, Bangalore, Beijing, Shanghai, Berlin, London, Paris, Seattle, Sydney, and Tel Aviv, and managed Microsoft for startups, 110 countries around the world. And in 2019, Bob Swan, the former CEO of Intel, asked me to join Intel and build something similar here. How do we connect with startups in a more significant way? You know, talking to corporates, I used to have this slide that shows why you have to talk to startups.

幻灯片上列满了大公司标志——谷歌大部分业务基于收购或与初创企业合作，亚马逊的许多业务也是如此，微软等公司也不例外。不过最近我只用两个标志举例：OpenAI和微软。

And it had big logos. It had, you know, so much of Google business is based on startup acquisitions or working with startups. Startups. So much of what Amazon is doing is based on the work with startups, Microsoft and others. I actually use one logo these days, and it's OpenAI and Microsoft.

最近新闻都在报道这件事，概括来说就是OpenAI、微软和谷歌之间的较量，以及这如何改变了微软在与谷歌竞争中的态势。有一页幻灯片和一个标志，我认为它们完美诠释了为什么大企业必须与初创公司合作，没有其他选择。接下来的问题是如何高效地实现这种合作，这同样不容易。不过我们稍后可能会讨论这个话题。

It's in the news these days, but general, it's OpenAI and then Microsoft and Google and how it changes the pendulum for Microsoft in this fight with Google. So there's one slide, one logo that I think tells the story why corporates cannot afford not working with startups, period. There's no option. And then the question is, how do you do it in an effective way, which is not easy either. But we'll probably going to talk about that later on.

你刚才说的非常引人入胜，不过我还是不想展开微软与OpenAI的话题——毕竟这是个需要时间消化的长篇故事，可能还会出续集，所以不想剧透结局。但回到你提到的重点：大企业不能总是单打独斗。英特尔在这方面一直是先行者，你们始终采取非常开放的态度，认为与初创公司互动——无论是合作还是收购——才是最佳创新方式。那么紧接着的问题就是：为什么选择英特尔Ignite计划？因为这个计划主要是帮助初创公司成长，而非直接为市场份额创造即时价值。为什么要设立这样的计划？它的设计理念是什么？

So again, what you just said is super intriguing, and again, I will not open the Microsoft OpenAI because again, it's a saga that probably takes a while to be fully digested and there will be multiple seasons, so don't want to spoil how it's gonna end, but again, focusing on what you just said, that corporates cannot afford to always start, I think Intel has been one of the trendsetter here. Again, you have always been a very super open approach and you have always considered that the best way to innovate is to interact with startups, sometimes collaborating and sometimes acquiring them. And the next immediate question is why Intel Ignite? Because Intel Ignite is mostly a program for supporting startups to get better rather than providing direct immediate value to the market share. Why such a program and how it has been designed?

让我们先从'为什么'开始说。

Let's start with why.

这很有趣。几个月前伦敦某商学院联系我，他们过去几年对企业加速器做了项研究，发现大多数企业加速器都失败了。当你纵观这些年...

So it's interesting. I got approached a few months ago by one of the business schools in London, and apparently they've done a research for the past few years on corporate accelerators. And they figured out that most corporate accelerators fail. And when you look at them throughout the years

这并不意外。我觉得...不，这确实太疯狂了。

And this is not a surprise again. I think No, not a it's been so wild too.

是的。但他们研究发现存在一种成功模式——根据他们的研究（虽然我最初并未参与），微软模式和Ignite模式表现持续优异，后者因为基于十四年经验构建了独特模式。研究表明这就是成功秘诀的一部分，虽然有时不太容易理解。

Yes. But they found that there is actually one model that from their research, and again, I was not involved in the research until they got to me. So they found one model that was consistent and worked really well. It was the Microsoft model and then the Ignite model that is very similar because that's based on these fourteen years that have built a very unique different model. And so in their research, they figured out that this is part of that secret sauce, which is sometimes not that clear to understand.

他们发现大多数企业加速计划都过于交易化：'你用我的云服务，我就帮你'，'你采购或转售我的产品，我就扶持你'。而我们采取完全不同的方式——顺便说，有些这类项目还要占股权和收费。我们的理念截然不同。

So what they found is that most of the corporate accelerator program are very transactional, right? You're going to use my cloud, I'm going to help you. You're to buy my stuff or you're going to resell my stuff, I'm going help you. And we come from a very different approach of, and by the way, some of these programs take equity and take pay. We come from a very different approach.

该方案的核心在于：我们希望与全球顶尖的颠覆者建立连接，为他们创造价值。如果我们不获取股权，就能接触到那些不愿出让2%、4%或6%股份但依然渴望与我们这样的品牌合作、获得全方位支持的顶级创新者。这种连接将催生多重商业机遇。我们的起点是汇聚最优秀的颠覆者，并组建了一支由成功企业家组成的团队——这些曾创立过公司的人将与他们并肩作战。

The approach says, look, we want to connect to the best disruptors in the world. We want to create value to the best disruptors in the world. If we're not going to take equity, we're going to get access to the best disruptors in the world that may not want to give us 2%, 4%, 6%, whatever it is, but still want to get the value of working with a brand like us and getting everything we can help them with. And that connection then creates multiple business opportunities. But from the starting point is we want to work with the best disruptors and we built a team of successful entrepreneurs, people that have built companies before that are going to work with them.

这是截然不同的模式。商学院的研究发现，Ignite项目有三个根本性差异：直接协作的能力、透明共情的机制，以及高度契合创业者需求的项目设计。重点不在于我们，而在于他们的成功。

It's a very, very different approach. So when you go back to this research that the business school has done, they found that the three fundamental things that makes Ignite different is they called it they said there are three things. It's critical that the ability to work directly, to have this transparency, empathy, and highly effective program for their needs, right? So it's not about us, it's about them. It's about their success.

这才是关键所在。我们可以深入探讨这个模式的运作机制及其独特性。核心问题在于：如何通过联结顶尖颠覆者，在全球生态系统中创造价值？Ignite是一个后期种子加速器项目，'后期种子'意味着目前参与企业的平均融资额约为7800万美元。

And that's the key, I think, the key ingredient here. We can go more into the model and how it works and how it's different. The basic fundamental issue is how do we create value in these ecosystems around the world by engaging with the best disruptors? So Ignite is a late seed accelerator program. Late seed means average funding for a company that comes to Ignite these days is about $78,000,000.

对吧？虽然有时会达到A轮阶段，但多数处于C轮到A轮之间。项目录取率仅4%，筛选极为严格。这是一个为期12周的高强度课程。稍后我可以详细讲解我们的差异化运营，这与你们熟悉的大多数加速器项目都不同。

Right? And so it's not A yet, sometimes it is A, mostly it's between C to A. Only 4% of the people that apply to the program get accepted, so it's very hard to get accepted to the program. And it's a very intense twelve week program that we go through. And again, I'll be able to go later if you want to into the details of how do we do things differently and what they are, but it is different than most of the programs you're probably familiar with.

不，我完全认同你的观点。企业加速器模式在大多数情况下确实失败了。事实上不仅是企业加速器，多数加速器都陷入同质化困局，无法产出实效。如果要举例，唯有Y Combinator做到了聚集顶尖中的顶尖，其他机构大多在二三线梯队徘徊，提供的项目质量也只能算三四流水准。像你们这样专注早期顶尖初创企业并提供顶级支持的方案确实极具价值。

No, again, you made a very good point that I agree, and you made that the model of corporate accelerators substantially failed most of the time. I also add that most of the accelerators, not just corporate, follow the same pattern, meaning they are not producing results. And again, if I have to point out one accelerator that works is Y Combinator, it is the one, it is the one because it's able to gather the best of the best. All the other are moving with the T2 and T3s and providing probably tier three, tier four product level programs. So again, an approach like yours that is trying obviously to gather the best early stage startups and provide them with top notch support is something that is super valuable.

问题在于如何让其他企业复制这种模式。假设我们不让他们接触普通企业人员，而是对接像你们这样具备高阶背景、开放思维且经验丰富的群体——这些人愿意投入时间，因为他们能认知到价值所在。但坦白说，要完全复制你们的项目模式可能相当复杂且困难。

The question here is how to replicate such a thing with other corporates. Say we don't put them in contact with a a bunch of corporate people, but we put them in contact with people with higher pedigree, open to memory experience like yours, again, this is the people that start to like to spend time and so you can ask a commitment because they get the value, but again, if I have to ask you, I can replicate a program like yours elsewhere, I could say that might be a bit complicated and difficult.

确实，过去十四年我们已证明这是可复制的模式。我们在全球迥异的生态系统中都成功落地过。从企业角度而言，关键在于两点：是否由合适的人运营项目？是否有足够的资金支持？稍后我们会具体讨论这些。

Yeah, well, as I've already shown in the last fourteen years, it's a repeatable model, right? We've done that in so many places around the world, very different ecosystems. And from a corporate perspective, it boils down to do you have the right people running the program? And we're going talk about that. Do you have the right funding?

正如你提到的，大多数加速器，甚至企业加速器都会失败，因为这种模式很难获得资金支持。即便你采用股权模式，每批6到10家公司中可能只有一家能成功，但之后你需要依靠自有资金运营六七年，直到实现退出才能获得可观收益，因为你的股权比例很小。因此你需要找到合适的人选来获得充分资助。在企业环境中，你还需要得到高层支持，最好是CEO或比CEO低一级的高管。在微软时，我的支持者是萨提亚和斯科特·格思里。

As you mentioned, most accelerators, not even corporate accelerators fail because it's hard to fund that model. Even if you're equity based and so one out of six or 10 companies in a batch will be successful, but then you need to run for six, seven years on your own budget until you get that exit to actually make something significant because you have small equity. So you need to have the right people to be funded properly. And then in a corporate setting, you need to be sponsored properly, hopefully by the CEO or someone below the CEO, one level below. And at Microsoft, I had Satya and then Scott Guthrie as my sponsors.

在英特尔，我最初是前CEO鲍勃·斯旺推动的项目，直接隶属于CEO办公室。现在我向英特尔CTO格雷格·拉文德汇报。所以这是个战略项目，不是市场宣传活动。

And Intel, I started as a project of the former CEO of Bob Swan. I was directly part of the CEO office. And today I report into Greg Levender, which is the CTO of Intel. So they are it's a strategic project. It's not a marketing effort.

这不是企业社会责任项目，而是真正的战略举措。说到合适人选，Ignite采用小组制运作，每个站点基本由五人团队运营。目前我们在慕尼黑设有欧洲站，伦敦设有英国站，特拉维夫和波士顿分别设有以色列站和美国站。

It's not a CSR effort. It's real strategic initiative. Now, when I talk about the right people, so Ignite works in pods. So every location has five people that are running the program, basically. So we have today Ignite in Munich for Europe, we have Ignite in London for The UK, we have Ignite in Tel Aviv, and we have Ignite in Boston for The US.

每个Ignite站点都有一位常驻董事总经理，必须是连续创业者——有创建公司、人员任免、退出变现等全流程经验的人。必须由这样的人来运营项目，不能是临近退休的企业高管来过渡，或是超级聪明的项目经理来管理。必须是成功创业者才能胜任这个角色。

So every Ignite location has a managing director, which is always a serial entrepreneur, someone that built companies before, hired, fired, exited, went through the whole process. You have to have that person to run the program. It can't be someone that's about to retire from the corporate and you find a last job or a super smart project manager that could run the program. No, it has to be a successful entrepreneur. So that's the person that runs the program.

其次是CTO人选，需要资深技术专家——首席工程师或高级首席工程师，既要深谙公司技术栈，又要精通软件、SaaS、系统和硬件等全领域。还需要运营经理负责日常事务，因为我们要管理自有站点，对接大量合作方和导师，事务非常繁杂。此外还有专门负责初创企业投资机会的deal flow经理。

Then you have a CTO, which is a very senior technical person. It's a principal engineer or a senior principal engineer, someone that knows the company really well, knows the technologies, knows software, SaaS, system, hardware, all of the things. Then you need an ops manager that runs the day to day because it's a pretty complex we run our own sites and we have a lot of people we engage with, a lot of mentors we engage with. So we have someone that runs the show. We have a deal flow manager that constantly looks for new deals for new startups.

如前所述，申请者中只有4%能入选。我们每年约评估4000家初创企业，全球团队负责筛选这些deal flow。在小组运营12-18个月后，我们会增加商务拓展岗，专门为投资组合寻找英特尔内外部合作机会的价值创造者。这就是小组构成。

As I mentioned, only 4% of people that apply get into the program. So we see about 4,000 startups a year. So there's a team of people around the world that are going through all that deal flow. And then about twelve to eighteen months into the life of a pod, we add a biz dev person, a value creation person that's constantly looking for opportunities for the portfolio within Intel, outside of Intel, through Intel. So that's a pod.

这个小组100%专注于初创企业。项目期间，初创企业要在12周内完成四个模块：首先是高强度导师计划，邀请行业内的连续创业者——那些成功创建过多家企业的业界领袖，他们作为活跃的董事会成员参与12周（部分导师会留任更久），每周都与初创企业深度互动。

And that pod is 100% committed to the startups. Now, the program has basically four things that the startups are going through in the twelve weeks during the program. One is it's a very heavy mentorship program. So you have industry mentors, which are always serial entrepreneurs from the industry, people that have been very successful in building multiple companies, and they come on board as a very active board member for twelve weeks. And some of them stay longer, but they work with the startups throughout the program on a weekly basis.

你会得到来自英特尔的首席导师，他们通常会围绕自己组建一个4到5人的团队，成员来自销售、产品、工程等不同领域，每周都会与初创企业合作，帮助他们取得成功。这些就是导师指导的部分。其次是工作坊和内容。我们现在与初创企业中的实践者合作。举个例子，我可以分享特拉维夫项目中的案例。

You get the lead mentor from Intel that usually builds around four to five people around them from sales, from product, from engineering, from a variety of places, and again, on a weekly basis, work with the startups to make them successful. So these are the mentorship pieces. Then second is the workshops and content. Now, We work with practitioners that are doing things in startups. So for example, I'll give you examples from the program here in Tel Aviv.

负责产品环节的导师名叫Kostika。他是以色列最成功的初创企业之一Wizz的联合创始人，担任首席产品官兼创始人，因此由他主持产品课程。之后他还会为初创企业提供一对一辅导。还有Arkady，他是Rapid公司的研发副总裁，对吧？

So the guy that does a session on product is a guy called Kostika. Kostika is a co founder of Wizz, one of the most successful startups in Israel. He's the CPO and founder, so he does a session on product. And then he does office hours with the startups. Or Arkady, that's VP R and D of Rapid, right?

他负责研发环节的课程。这些导师都是实战派，是真正以此为业的专业人士。他们并非为初创企业提供咨询顾问服务，这不是他们的本职工作，而是出于热爱的自愿付出——但他们的日常正是打造成功的初创企业。

He runs a session on R and D, right? So these are practitioners, people that are doing it for a living. They're not consulting to startups. This is not their job. This is something they love doing, but the day to day is they build successful startups.

这是第二项内容。第三项我们称之为创始人圈。每周企业会与成功创业者进行90分钟到两小时的聚会，少量分享创业故事，更多是深入探讨实操经验。再举个例子，这里有家非常成功的初创企业Verbit，其CEO以独树一帜的方式募集了大量资金。

So this is the second thing. The third thing is something we call founders circle. So on a weekly basis, the companies will get together with a successful entrepreneur for about ninety minutes or a couple hours, a little bit of war stories, but mostly an intimate discussion of how they do things. So again, an example, there's a very successful startup here called Verbit. Their CEO have raised significant amount of money in a very different way than others.

他有特定的融资闪电战策略，还会向潜在投资者发送特定模板的邮件。他会向创始人们公开所有这些秘诀并进行讨论。适合的企业可以直接借鉴，对其他企业而言这也是拓展人脉、认识生态圈伙伴的宝贵经历。

There's a certain way he does his funding blitz. And there's a certain email he sends to people who are interested in investing in it. He will open all this up to the founders and have a discussion. For the ones that fits what they do, that's great. For others, with just another experience to network and know people from the ecosystem.

这是第三项内容。最后一项是小组内部工作。Ignite的董事总经理和首席技术官每周都会与创始人们整合所有这些资源。我们曾多次在辅导中直接对创始人说：你很优秀，但不适合担任CEO——你更热爱技术研发或销售等具体领域。

So that's the third thing. And then the last thing is the work that's done within the pod. So on a weekly basis, the MD and the CTO of Ignite are integrating all of this together with the founders. And we had multiple sessions where, for example, we sat in front of a founder and CEO of a startup and said, hey, you're great, but you don't fit to be a CEO. You love doing certain things in tech or you love doing certain things in sales, etcetera.

我们会帮你物色能补足短板、提升公司价值的人选，让你能专注于最擅长的领域。我们甚至能做到这种程度的深度辅导。我们通过多种方式支持创始人，虽然强度极高，但这个模式非常奏效，成效显著。

Let's help you find a person that will join you and increase the value of your company because you can focus on what you're really good at and let's find someone that could take that role. So we'll do even that level of intimacy with founders. So there's a variety of ways we do with them. Again, it's super intense, but the model is working. It's working really well.

我认为这具有相当的变革性。其中一个有趣之处在于它如何与英特尔形成闭环。

I think it's fairly transformational. And then one of the interesting things is how it works together back to Intel.

从技术角度讲，我紧接着的问题是：这对英特尔有什么好处？因为你们确实为这家公司创造了大量价值。所以

What's the technical My next immediate question is, okay, what's in for Intel? Because again, you are giving a lot of value to this company. So as

我说过，这不是慈善也不是营销。不，我们有严格的

I said, this is not philanthropy and this is not marketing. Is a No, we have a strict

慈善业务。所以

philanthropy business. So

有多种方式能为公司带来回报。英特尔是用OKR管理的，对吧？一切都需要量化，我们需要向公司证明所做事情的价值等等。回报途径多种多样。比如我们首批特拉维夫初创企业中有家叫Granuli的公司，最初只有5个人带着450万美元来找我。

there are a variety of ways that this pays back to the company. And Intel is managed with OKRs, right? It's, Everything needs to be measured and we need to show the value of what we do back to the company, etcetera. So there are a variety of ways that it pays back. So one of our, for example, batch one Tel Aviv startups, a company called Granuli, came to me with 4,500,000 five people.

据媒体报道，英特尔几年后以6.5亿美元收购了他们。现在他们是我们软件战略的核心——Granularly是战略关键组成部分。我们投资了大概三家企业，英特尔导师们正在产出深度技术文档。

Intel acquired them a couple of years later for $650,000,000 according to the press. And they're front and center to our software strategy. A pivotal component of our software strategy is Granularly. If you look at, we did investments in, I think, three of the companies. Our Intel mentors are producing these deep technological documents.

我们建立了数据仓库。我们对世界有何认知？能为英特尔提供哪些全球视野？回报渠道很多。另一个重要维度是文化变革。

We have a repository of data. What do we learn about the world, right? What can we teach Intel about what's happening in the world? So there are a variety of ways that this pays back. One of the other ways that, or the additional ways that this is important is the change of culture.

阿尔贝托，你从事企业创新已有一段时间了，我们这些大公司面临的最大挑战之一是如何重塑文化？如何改变文化？这并不容易，实际上相当困难。有趣的是，Ignite项目拥有约300名来自英特尔内部的导师。

You've been dealing with corporate innovation for a while, Alberto, one of the biggest challenges that we're facing in these large corporations is how do you reinvent the culture? How do you change the culture? And that's not easy. It's actually pretty hard. The interesting thing with Ignite, Ignite has about 300 mentors from within Intel.

这些人通过与初创企业的合作，看待事物的方式与以往截然不同。我们刚开完一个会议，我的老板格雷格·拉文德与几位导师见面。其中一位导师告诉他，她把在英特尔的二十年划分为加入Ignite前的十八年和加入后的两年。这彻底改变了她工作方式。我们有许多案例展示了如何改变英特尔各团队的工作方式、世界观以及对事物的理解。

So people that through the engagement with startups see things in a very different way than they've seen them before. We just had a meeting where my boss, so Greg Lavender, met with a few of our mentors. And one of the mentors told him that she divides her twenty years at Intel to eighteen before Ignite and the two since she started with Ignite. It changed completely the way she works. And there are a variety of examples of how we've changed the way the different teams at Intel work and the way they see the world and their understanding of things out there.

因此这是一个多功能的工具，服务于公司的多个部门。我们正努力整合这些成果来展现其价值。

So it's a multifaceted tool, and it serves multiple parts of the company. And we're trying to put all of this together to show the value, of course.

你再次提到参与过该项目的某家公司已被收购。英特尔还有其他收购案例，也有初创企业被其他公司收购的案例。你可以选择投资几家、收购一批或进行合作。你提到他们对AI云的支持，虽然部分企业能从中受益，但大多数价值可能流向那些真正与你们合作或无法立即获得收益的公司。

And again, you mentioned then one of the company that passed the program has been acquired. There are other example of acquisition by Intel and there are other example of startups that exited with other companies. Again, you can probably invest in a few, acquire a bunch of them, collaborate. You mentioned the support they're giving to the AI cloud. For some of them, but probably most of the value goes to company that actually they work with you or they don't get an immediate value.

但正如你所说，重点或许在于他们花时间与你们及英特尔共处，这让他们对英特尔战略技术有了更深了解，可能激发出潜在合作机会。这种让顶级企业在你们场地共同工作的模式本身就能创造价值——虽然如你所说，这不同于传统加速器模式。我们面临的问题是：如何精选优质项目，开放我们的方法、战略和技术，支持他们完成必要工作，或许就能促成某些转机。这两种不同方式可能正是我的认知偏差所在。

But probably, again, was listening to what you were saying is the fact that they are spending some time with you and within Inter, give them their level of intimacy of the strategy technology of Inter that probably might spark some potential opportunity of collaboration, that probably might be the value adding a bunch of top class companies working with inside your premises together with you and then maybe something happens. This probably is less, as you've mentioned, the traditional accelerator, but we have this problem come over and help us with is we'll take the best of bread, get them for a period of time, we open our approach, our strategy, our technology, we support you to do the best that you need to do to reopen the company and maybe something might happen. So this is probably the two different approaches, why I'm wrong somewhere.

不，你说得对。但还有一点需要理解：人们必须认清与初创企业合作的生态系统特性。初创企业是时效性极强的实体，它们要么快速被收购，要么迅速倒闭，大多数都不会成功——这个领域变化极快。

No, you're right, but there's also another understanding that people must understand the ecosystem and working with startups. A startup is a very time bound entity. Startups go away fast. Either they get acquired, they shut down, most of them do not succeed. It's something that just evolves super quick.

但创始人不同。创始人是长期存在的，他们可能创办新企业、加入其他公司，或被合作伙伴收购。对这些顶尖创始人和技术变革者的投资，其价值会在未来多年持续显现。即使某家具体初创企业未能与我们达成特定合作成果。

The founder is not. The founder is something that stays for a long time. And they may start another startup, they may go to work for another company, they may be acquired by a partner or a company we can work with. The investment in these top founders, in these top tech transformers is highly, highly valuable for many, many years. So even if that specific startup, we may not have been successful in doing something specific with them.

我们通过与他们的接触可能对世界有了新的认识。我们与风投建立的关系可能比直接投资他们更好，因为我们为初创企业创造了价值。但我们还培养了另一位大使，一位顶尖技术领袖，他现在认为英特尔实际上比人们想象的更具创新性。他在英特尔见到了一群人，他们行动迅速，恕我直言，他们确实能搞定事情。

We may have learned something about the world for engaging with them. We probably built a better relationship with the VC than invested in them because we created value for the startup. But we created another ambassador, another top technology leader that now thinks that Intel is actually more innovative than people think. And he met a bunch of people at Intel. They're actually fast moving and they could get excuse my English, they could get shit done.

这很关键。我们认识到我们合作的基本单位不是一家初创企业，而是一位创业者、一位开发者，是那些会不断重复创业的人。

So that's critical. And that's the understanding that the atomic unit that we're working with is not a startup. It's an entrepreneur. It's a developer. It's someone that is going to do it again and again and again.

即使他们退出，也可能收购公司或投资公司。我们希望参与其中，对吧？这远远超出了与某家初创企业短期合作的范畴。这回到了我最初关于那项研究的讨论——重点不在于单次交易。

Or if they exited, they may acquire companies, they may invest in companies. We want to be part of that, right? It's way beyond this specific short term startup intel engagement. That goes back to my original discussion on that research. It's not about this single transaction.

而在于建立长期深厚的合作关系。这是完全不同的方式。

It's about a long term deep relationship. It's a very different approach.

我再次记录下来，因为这将是我向他人转述我们对话时的开场白。你提出了一个非常非常好的观点——基本单位确实不是初创企业或创始人。显然，要从这个原则中获益，你需要吸引最顶尖的人才。如果合作对象资质不佳，同样无法创造令人振奋的价值。你可能付出了很多努力，但他们最终未必能产出价值。但你的观点很有道理，这也解释了为什么你可能没有获得这些公司的股权，你只是支持他们，因为你更关注建立长期关系。

Again, I was writing it down because that would be the opening line when I will remind someone else about our conversation. Think you made a very, very good point is, again, the atomic unit is not the startup or the founders and obviously in order to get value out of this principle you need to attract the best of the best. Again, if you're working with bad quality material, again you create not exciting value. You might be helping actually, again there is a lot of effort in that direction but they're not particularly able to produce value down the way. But I think you made quite a point and that explains why you're probably not getting any equity from these companies, you're just supporting them because you're interested in building up the relationship.

显然这种方式的复杂性在于你必须始终保持顶尖水准，因为优质资源只会流向优质平台。一旦你的标准稍有下降，我们就前功尽弃了。

Obviously the complication of such an approach that you need to perform top again because the quality go where quality is, excellence The goes where excellence moment that your problem goes down a notch, we are done.

确实如此。我们的净推荐值(NPS)在93到96之间（因地区而异），这说明虽然过程很艰难，需要他们与我们一起为初创企业投入大量工作，但客户对我们的价值非常满意。不持股权的关键在于——我多年前就意识到，持有数百家公司的少量股权没有价值。因为最终这些公司大部分都会消失，这就是初创企业的现实，对吧？

Exactly, and our NPS is 93 or 96, depending on the location, so it's super high, people are super happy with the value, although it's very hard. It's a lot of work that they need to invest in their own startup together with us. But it's, you know, the point of not taking equity, look, what I figured out many, many years ago that holding small equity in hundreds of companies is not value. Because at the end of the day, most of these companies are going to go away. That's the reality of startup world, right?

即便你精挑细选，从整体和宏观层面来看，大部分投资最终都会成为坏账。但每当我们决定投资时，这反而是个机会——虽然可能需要支付少许溢价，但能让我们更清楚所投为何。企业也能更明确是否该与我们而非他人合作。这绝非临时起意认为方向正确，而是我们确信方向无误，企业也认定这是最佳合作伙伴。

Even if you pick the best ones, on an overall, a big scale, most of it is things you're going to write off. But we have an opportunity whenever we want to invest, we may pay a little bit of premium, but we'll know better what we're getting into. The company would know better if they want to do deal with us or someone else. And then it's not that we've just winged it and we thought this is the right direction. We know it's the right direction and the company knows this is the right partner.

因此这是截然不同的投资策略。我甚至认为相较于广撒网式分散投资，这是获取股权的更明智方式。

So it's a very different approach. I would even say it's a smarter way of getting equity versus just spreading it too thin on many companies.

确实，因为你支付的溢价是针对真正有价值的标的，而非蝇头小利。顺便说句，全球投资组合的秘诀在于持续追加投资而非首轮注资后就放任不管。问题正在于此——若只参与首轮就退出，即便投中独角兽也只能分得残羹。真正想请教的是：当多数企业指责跨境并购推高估值时，为何你们仍坚持溢价战略？这个困扰我多时的问题，在与众多企业高管交流后依然无解。

Yeah, because again, you pay premium but you pay premium on something that you find value rather than getting dimes or nickels out of. And then by the way, the secret of the white combo of the world is that they're just investing everything and they follow-up the investment down the way. Well that's the problem, because just invest the first round and let it go at the end. Yes, maybe you're a unicorn but you take probably a small part of that. The real question that I'd like to get your opinion in because it's a topic that I'm most of this, again, I'm struggling with many of your colleagues, many corporates, and where you say we pay premium, many corporates most of the time accuse their own CBCR because they are inflating the value of company by the interest in foreign M and A player.

实际上我们支付溢价是因为你们——你们不仅降低了投资风险，还帮助企业提升层级，现在这个层级关乎利益核心。能否向听众阐释这个理念：当投资具有战略意义时，最终价格反而不那么重要。企业真正的困境在于为琐碎事务浪费资金——虽然理论上大家都认同这点，但具体到案例时又纷纷退缩。

So actually we are paying more because of you rather than say actually you derisk the investment, you help the company, we've got another level, now it's a level for interest. So can you help our audience to elaborate the concept is that if something is strategic, at the end the price paid is not that relevant. Actually the money that you waste going after small things is probably the real problem that company will have because again, this part, logically everybody is on board and then when they come to complete example, they pull back.

如你所说，核心价值在于战略意义。我们当然希望在投资和所有事务中避免无谓浪费，确保资金高效利用，但战略优先始终是前提。我们必须加速抵达未来制胜点，要在竞争中胜出就必须确保方向正确，必要时果断推进交易——毕竟商机转瞬即逝。正如你强调的，这是战略性抉择，我们将助力企业快速做出正确决策。

Yeah, as you said, the value here is strategic. Yes, of course we wanna, as with our investments and with everything we do, we wanna make sure we don't throw away money if we don't have to, and we wanna be highly effective in the way we use the funds, but we need to be strategic, right? We need to help get faster to the future that we need to get to in order to win in the market, right? We all want to win against the competition, we want to make sure we're on the right directions, and we have to cut that short when we have to and get the deal done and make it happen, because again, the business moves super fast. So as you mentioned, it's strategic, it's important, and we will help the company make the right decision to move as fast as possible.

正如我之前举例说明的，这些决策已彻底改变了公司。事后当然可以争论价格高低，但对我们而言这确实是转型之举。

And as mentioned with some of my examples, we've changed the company based on these decisions. And yes, you can go back and say, well, you paid too much, you didn't pay too much, etcetera. It's been transformational for us.

没错，战略投资或许昂贵但能带来巨大出路——那就是企业的生存权；非战略投资看似便宜却难有作为。扎克，这次对话令我受益匪浅。再次祝贺英特尔Ignite团队多年来取得的成就——正是这种聚焦创始人质量而非交易式孵化的创新模式，让你们在2023年企业创投之星评选中脱颖而出。当传统加速器模式日渐式微时，你们项目的光芒恰恰证明了其卓越之处。衷心祝贺。

Yeah, because at the end, strategic investments might be expensive but they have a big out and that is the survivor of the company while non strategic might be cheap but at the end doesn't have that much. So Zach has been a very, very insightful conversation, at least for me. Again, congratulation again for the work that you guys have been doing over the years with Intel Ignite and that's the reason, again, award is kind of the reason why IntelieNet has been awarded among the corporate startup stars 2023 for this novel way of reshaping a model that actually is we are seeing fading away, is a model of accelerators. But the way you're doing, focusing on quality, focusing on founders rather than having transactional startup driven approach, think is probably is the reason why your program is shining, is one among the corporate startup stuff that we are celebrating. Congratulations.

非常感谢。是的，我们将自身定位为'联合创始人即服务'而非'企业即服务'。我们作为这些初创企业的联合创始人，不是董事会成员，不是投资者，也不是员工，而是真正意义上的联合创始人——在我们这种情况下不拿股权，但确实扮演着这个角色。

You very much. Yeah, we position ourselves as co founder as a service and not as a corporate as a service. It's a co founder as a service and we act like co founders of these startups, not as board members, not as investors, not as employees, but actually as co founders, which in our case, not taking equity, but at that Is

作为联合创始人，是的，这可能正是你们通过支持关键时刻所展现的价值部分，这些付出最终可能会在未来获得回报。'最终'和'未来'这两个你在对话中提到的概念，可能会在一两家初创企业之后实现，但也可能永远无法预知。非常感谢。

the co founder, yes, it's probably is the part of value that you show by supporting critical moments that might pay off eventually later on. And eventually and later on, two concepts that you described in our conversation might happen also maybe one or two startups after, and might eventually, because probably you never know. Thank you so much.

非常感谢。谢谢阿尔贝托，也感谢大家的聆听。

You very much. Thank you, Alberto, and thank you everyone for listening.

感谢大家今天的参与，我们下期《开放创新对话·Mind the Bridge·行业领袖访谈》再见。

Thank you for being with us today and see you in the next episode of Open Innovation Talks, Mind the Bridge, Chat with Industry Leaders.