第26集 - CampX模式内幕

我认为信任非常重要。尽管我们是一家大公司，但我们始终与所有参与者共同协作。这在内部是一项大型集体活动。因此，合法合规对于简化合同和采购谈判至关重要，公平协商同样重要。不能以对待大供应商的方式对待初创企业，要时刻注意这点，在讨论和协议中体现公平性。

I think trust is very important. So even though we are a big company, we always make with everyone who is engaged. And this is a big group activity internally. So it's legal is absolutely critical for making this work with simpler contracts and negotiations with purchasing equally important to negotiate in a fair way. You cannot treat startups the same way you do big suppliers, but to be mindful about that and bring in fairness in the discussion and also in the agreements.

这样才能建立信任与信誉。对我们而言，关键在于贴近产品和业务负责人。

And then so you build trust and credibility. And for us, the key has really been to be close to the product and business owners.

深度访谈科技领域最具影响力的创新高管，独家数据洞察全球主要及新兴生态系统，汇集全球最热门的科技与开放式创新资讯——以上精彩内容尽在每期新节目中。欢迎收听《开放式创新对话》。

In-depth interviews with the most influential innovation executives of the tech arena. Exclusive data and insights on major and emerging ecosystems all around the world. The hottest news on technology and open innovation at a global level. This and much more in every new episode. Welcome to Open Innovation Talks.

关注桥梁，与行业领袖对话。

Mind the bridge, chat with industry leaders.

今天我们将深入探讨沃尔沃集团。沃尔沃一直是创新领域的先驱之一。实际上他们早在多年前就开展了企业风投活动，2020年推出了一个非常有趣的概念，最初称之为加速器。他们的模式名为CAMPEX，但我认为这不仅仅是加速器，更像是介于加速与风险客户之间的创新模式。

Today we will deep dive into Volvo Group. Volvo has been one of the pioneers in innovation. Actually, they started corporate venture capital activities some time ago. And in 2020, they introduced a very interesting concept that they originally call it an accelerators. Their format is called CAMPEX, but I believe it's a bit more than accelerator, probably something between acceleration and venture client.

在发展过程中，他们还增加了风险构建器和孵化器功能。这个非常有趣的模式分散在多个地区——总部位于瑞典哥德堡，同时在法国里昂、美国以及印度班加罗尔都有布局。这再次体现了地域与创新的交集，这是另一个非常有趣的话题。鉴于这个话题极具吸引力，我们需要深入探讨，而埃琳娜·尼克拉斯松正是帮助我们理解CAMPEX模式运作的最佳人选。

And down the way they also added a venture builder and they also added an incubator. So I think a very, very interesting model that is scattered in between multiple location, obviously, quarter in Sweden, in Gothenburg, but also in France, Leon, in The US and in Bangalore in India. So again, there is again an intersection between location and innovation. This is another very interesting topic. And since the topic is very fascinating and interesting, I think it's very, very important to go deeper into that and no one better than Elena Niklasson can help us to understand how this Campex model works.

那么，海伦，欢迎你。

So, Helene, welcome.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

海伦是Campex的负责人，同时担任EVP创新生态系统与合作伙伴关系。海伦，我认为首先需要澄清一个可能的误解——有些听众可能会混淆我们谈论的是沃尔沃汽车还是沃尔沃集团。让我们先明确沃尔沃集团的业务范围及其非涉足领域。

So Helene is the head of Campex, beyond the EVP Innovation Ecosystem and Partnership. So Helene, I think first immediate question also for removing the doubt that some audience might understand we're talking about Volvo, we're talking about Volvo Group that is not Volvo. So first of all, let's focus on what Volvo Group does and what it does not.

感谢说明。确实一开始就澄清这点很重要。沃尔沃集团的核心业务是运输解决方案，主要集中在卡车领域。许多人知道沃尔沃卡车，但我们旗下还有多个品牌：法国的雷诺卡车、美国的马克卡车，以及众多合资企业。

Thank you for that. Yeah, that's good to clear that out already from the start. So Volvo Group, it is what we do, it's transport solutions, and we do it in the area of trucks. Many have seen Volvo Trucks, but we have many brands. Renault Trucks in France, we have Mack Trucks in The US, we have a lot of joint ventures.

此外我们还拥有沃尔沃巴士、建筑设备（包括挖掘机和自卸车等工程机械），以及专注船舶和工业应用的沃尔沃遍达。正如你所说，我们是真正的全球化企业——总部在瑞典，但拥有众多枢纽中心，业务覆盖190个市场，全球员工约10万人。

And then we also have Volvo Bats, and we have construction equipment, which is diggers and dumpers, excavators, and we have also Volvo Penta with marine and industrial applications. So that's what we do, But we are a truly global company, like you said, headquartered in Sweden, but with many, many hubs and we are present on 190 markets and we are around 100,000 employees globally.

可以说这是一个具有显著全球影响力的集团。现在让我们深入探讨今天的主题——开放式创新。首先需要了解的是，除了传统研发（其实它已不再传统，正在持续演进）之外，沃尔沃集团采用了哪些创新工具。比如这个与研发紧密结合的新型资本支出模式。

So a relevant group with a pretty, I will say, global footprint. So let's deep dive into again our topic of election that is specifically open innovation. I think might be important to, first of all, to understand what kind of innovation tools a Volvo Group uses beyond the traditional R and D. That is no longer traditional because it's evolving. There is this new CapEx model that is actually pretty quite close and integrated with the R and D.

据我所知，这类资本支出通常与研发中心毗邻而设。此外还有独立运作的企业风投部门CBC。从组织架构来看，CAMPAX和CBC分别向不同高管汇报，尽管存在大量协同合作，但两者保持着明确区隔。

If I can remember, the CapEx is typically co located close to your R and D center. And then there is the CBC, the Corporate Venture Capital arm that is independent. Also from an organizational standpoint, these two branches, CAMPAX and CBC are reporting to different sea levels. So there's also a separation, despite there is a lot of synergies and collaborations.

是的，工具箱部门Campex与风投机构之间保持着紧密协作。我们始终保持联动。正如你精辟指出的，行业正处于重大转型期。要应对这种变革，必须建立大量合作伙伴关系，通过这种工作方式整合各方资源。单纯依靠内部开发已不足够——虽然我们拥有强大的内部工业流程，但必须通过外部补充才能全面应对转型期的所有挑战。

Yeah, it's very strong collaborations between the toolbox, Campex, and also with the venture capital arm. So we are following each other all the time. But the story behind Campex, it is interesting, like you so rightfully mentioned, the industry is in a great transformation. And in order to be able to manage everything, you need to have a lot of partnerships. So you need to work in that manner to bring everybody on board and the in house development era needs to be complemented, because we have a very strong and very good industrial process internally, but you need to complement it in order to be able to manage everything that needs to be managed in a transformation.

说到创新工具，我认为，你知道的，现在日常生活中创新无处不在，所有这些研发中心以及几乎每个人都在以新方式做事。我们正处于向零排放转型的过程中，追求更高的效率和安全性等等。因此我们需要引入许多新的解决方案和技术。而CampX的互补理念，正是通过与一类我们以往合作不够系统化的伙伴——初创企业——建立合作关系来加速创新。

So innovation tool, I would say, you know, there is so much innovation going on in everyday life in all these R and D centres and with pretty much everyone and new ways of doing things. And we are in this transformation going towards zero emission, towards much more efficiency, safety, etcetera. So we need to onboard a lot of new solutions and technologies. And the idea about how Camp X could complement was really to accelerate innovation through partnerships with one type of partners where we have not worked so structured. We have worked with, but not so structured, and that was startups.

如果我们能引入初创企业正在开发的好方案，整合并推向市场，那就是双赢。但核心在于利用沃尔沃集团内部负责转型的人员，我们称之为产品业务负责人，他们是内部负责某个领域的专家。比如电池管理这样庞大的工作领域，你有自己的路线图，有许多需要交付的内容，你可以决定是自主研发还是通过合作伙伴（可能是供应商）来开发。

So if we could bring in something that a startup is working on, a good solution and integrate it and bring to market, it's a good win. But the core, it's really to use the people who are responsible internally Volvo Group for the transformation. We call them product business owners, persons inside who are responsible for an area. And it can be battery management, for example, big, big chunk of work and you have your roadmap and you have so many things that you need to deliver, you can decide should we develop it in house? Should we develop it through partnerships, maybe with suppliers?

我们与供应商紧密合作有着悠久的传统。或者生态系统中是否有初创企业正在研究这个？如果成功，我们能引入吗？那么Campex在这里的角色是什么？可以说它是一个测试工具。

We have a long tradition of working closely with our suppliers. Or is there someone in the ecosystem with startups who are working on this? And if it's successful, can we bring it in? So what is Campex in this? It's a testing tool, you could say.

可以说它是一个验证机器。其中一位重要利益相关者就是直面挑战和需求的产品业务负责人。而在沃尔沃集团外部的创新生态中，我们有一些初创企业有望攻克该挑战。如果Campek团队能促成双方合作并见证成果，通过短期项目验证价值（我们称之为价值验证项目），若成功就能实际整合。

So it's a validation machine, if you would say. So the one piece, one important stakeholder, it is the product business owner who sits on the challenge and the need. And then outside of Volvo Group in the innovation ecosystem, we have a couple of startups hopefully working on that challenge. And if Campek's team can marry that and see that happen, you know, and if it's successful, we see it and we try it in a short project, we call it prove a value project. If it's successful, then we can actually integrate it.

这就是CampeX的主要目标——将技术整合到平台或解决方案服务中并推向市场。

And that is the main goal with CampeX, to integrate either in a tech platform or in a solution, a service and bring to market.

提问。Campex自2020年运行至今已有三年多，来自初创企业界的外部解决方案有多少？这些对沃尔沃集团创新体系相对新颖的合作伙伴总共引入了多少？我们所说的价值验证实现了多少？

Question. I think Campex is running since 2020, so again, three plus years. How many external solution coming from the startup world? It was the partners a bit novel to the innovation equation of Volvo Group has been brought into collectively. How many, what we call proof of value has been realized?

其中有多少进入了整合阶段？能否给我们一些具体数字？

How many of them are moving to the integration phase? Can you give us some numbers at least?

当然，很乐意。自从我们开始，实际上当我们启动时，我们认为一个必要条件是要有初创公司和我们一起。但后来2020年，你还记得吗？

Sure. Be happy to. Since we started, we started actually, when we started, we thought that one requirement would be to have the startup here with us. But then 2020, do you remember?

是的，我记得当时我们正好在那段时间错过了他们。

Yeah, I remember I thought we missed them exactly on those days.

疫情爆发了。不过效果出奇地好。从那时起，我们已经与80家不同的初创公司完成了80多个项目。第一年我们定的目标是大概完成15个左右，现在随着各中心加入，虽然人员没有大幅增加，但我们能够实现规模化运作。

COVID hit. So, but it worked really well. So since then, we have done more than 80 projects with 80 different startups. And the first year we said, okay, let's put the target to, I think we managed to do maybe 15 or so. And then now with the hubs joining and we are not necessarily so much many more people, but we are able to scale it.

工具箱使用起来更便捷了，我们持续优化它。现在我们的目标是始终保持约50个与不同初创公司合作的项目，这是明年的目标。

It's easier to use the toolbox, you know, we refine it constantly. So now our target is to actually always have around 50 ongoing projects with 50 different startups. That's the target for this coming year.

这是你们的关键绩效指标，运营KPI。

It's your KPI, operational KPI.

是的，这确实是在衡量活动量，但我们真正想体现的是——正如你正确指出的——有多少项目真正取得了进展。在这80个项目中，我们聚焦于特定领域：最初是电动出行，后来大量围绕电池管理、数据应用及模式预测等；接着转向自动驾驶系统和ADAS安全系统；随后重点研究传感器及传感器融合等领域。现在我们仍关注这些方向，但可持续发展已成为重要领域，同时探索如何将AI应用于不同解决方案以应对各类挑战。

Yeah, well, it's yeah, we are, you know, it's measuring activity, so we are but what we want to bring is actually how much, like you rightfully pointed out, how much is actually going somewhere. So out of these 80, and it's in very focused areas, So, know, we started with electromobility, then it's a lot around battery management and to use the data and look at patterns and predictions, etc. Then we went to self driving automation and safety system ADAS. And then it was a lot around sensors, sensor fusion, etcetera. Now we are focusing a lot around, we are still focusing on that, but sustainability is a huge area, as well as how we can apply AI to different solutions, to different challenges.

总之，你问我这80个项目中有多少真正落地——大约15%已被整合应用。这正是我们当前重点：如何最大化影响力。我们希望能成为真正的价值创造者，让解决方案产生重大影响并推向市场。

Anyway, out of this 80, you asked me how many have actually gone anywhere. I would say like 15% have been integrated, but that is what we are now looking at how we can make most impact. So impact is we want to be a real value generator so that we actually make a lot of impact in our solutions and bring it to market.

这个观点很好。回到80项目，80价值验证本质上。再说一次，10%到15%是个不错的比例，基本上目前有8到12个解决方案正处于实施阶段。你说衡量影响很重要，我同意。问题是如何衡量？

That's a very good point. So going back is the 80 project, the 80 proof of value substantially. And then again, 10%, 15% is a good ratio, essentially is something between eight and a dozen of solutions are currently in the implementation phase. Then you say that it's important to measure impact, Agreed. The problem is how do you measure it?

因为这同样可能需要提供数字、提供领域数据，这也是个棘手的工作，因为你知道，在你们行业集成解决方案不是一蹴而就的事。除非我们讨论的是行业里已有较多积累的情况，否则你们可能正在集成的解决方案要到2030年才能上市——毕竟在你们行业，通常需要五年时间才能将新方案推向市场。据我所知，直到2025年的计划其实已经制定好了。不知道你们的时间线如何，但很可能你们在为下一个周期做准备。所以本质上我们需要等待五到七年才能衡量影响。

Because again, it's something probably again, also in providing number, providing field is also a tricky job because, you know, integrating solution in your industry is not something that happens overnight. Unless we are talking about, again, the more there is in the industry, again, probably you are integrating solution that will go into the market by 2030 because, again, this is the typical again, there are five years for putting a new solution on the market in your industry. As far as I know, so substantially the plan up to 2025 is already written. I don't know what is your timeline, but probably you're working for the next one. So substantially we need to wait to measure the impact probably five, six, seven years.

那么在此期间，你们如何评估解决方案的潜在影响？

In meantime, how you value the potential impact of the solution?

首先这需要具体情况具体分析，但有时如果我们推出的是不需要集成到大型工业设备中的独立版本，确实能更快上市。不过你说得对，最终还是要经过完整的工业化流程。但我们现在的认知是，加快进程的关键在于让产品负责人——也就是推动整个工业化流程的人——从一开始就参与进来。这样即使在工业化进程中，也能找到加速上市的途径。比如通过AI应用来简化流程或提升效率，就能产生巨大影响。

First, it is a little bit case by case, but sometimes, we can actually bring it to market quicker if it's not, you know, if it's more of a standalone edition that doesn't need to be integrated into the big industrial machine. But you're right, it has to be integrated and brought through the big industrialization process. But I think what we have understood now is that the important part that makes this quicker is that the product owners who are also driving, you know, the whole industrial process is there from the start. So then you can actually find ways to bring it to market quicker, even in the industry process. So you know, you can upgrade things and you can make a big impact if you figure out, you know, if we try application of AI for making something easier or making it more efficient, then it has a huge impact.

这正是我们当前的重点：正在构建项目组合。刚才提到AI，我们其实有很多举措的规划，重点评估哪些能产生最积极的影响，或者何时推出能实现最大正面效应。此外我们内部也有许多无需等待市场导入就能见效的工作方法。

So that is actually what we are looking at now. We are building portfolios. We talked about AI now. So we have a lot of, you know, we look at different mapping of our initiatives and what is actually going to make the most positive impact or when we launch it, you know, what will be the biggest impact in a positive way. But then you can have other, you know, we can have internal ways of working that also helps us a lot, which doesn't need to wait for market introduction.

所以这是个涵盖面很广的项目组合。我们有多个针对不同挑战的价值验证项目，但同时也要保持专注——毕竟要做的事情太多了。比如现在可持续发展领域，初创企业生态系统中关于材料科学的创新层出不穷。我们正在研究如何快速实现塑料替代等突破性方案——如果成功的话见效会很快。

So it's a wide case by case portfolio. We have a lot of different proof of value projects targeting different challenges, but we try to keep focus as well because there is so much to do. So, you know, we go with different areas and now with sustainability, for example, there is so much going on in the startup ecosystem around materials, for example. So how can we look at that and what can actually be something where we can replace plastics or whatever it can be? That could be fairly quick if we are successful.

能否举几个价值验证成功转化为集成方案的具体案例？或者分享几个合作故事让我们有个概念？

Yeah, Can you point out a couple of concrete example of these proof of values has been turned into integration just to have a sense or maybe a couple of stories that you can refer of collaboration?

我有一个案例。虽然不能透露细节，但可以分享个有趣的故事。我们遇到一个关于工作方式的挑战——如何更高效地完成任务。开发团队提出了一个难题，于是我们瞄准了一家初创企业，发现双方很匹配。后来这家初创公司被收购了，但知识产权正在出售。

I have one. I cannot go into details, but I can tell one interesting story. We have one challenge where we it's actually the way of working, but how you can do things a bit quick. We had one challenge from the team in development, and then we targeted startup where we saw, okay, that could be a good match. Then the startup was acquired by another company, but the IP was up for sale.

于是我们收购了这项知识产权，这节省了大量时间。因为虽然我们可以选择自主研发，但它已经存在，所以能快速引入。不过具体细节不便多说，

So then, you know, we actually acquired the IP and that saved us a lot of time because, you know, we can choose, we can develop it in house, but it was already there so then we could bring it in quickly. But I cannot go into any details,

你

you

要知道，处理方式多种多样。如果谈到软性价值，这种工作方式给组织带来了改变——它就像个工具箱，能为我提供支持。作为产品负责人，我可以审视它并确认：这确实能支持我完善交付成果和学习收获。即使项目没有继续推进，我们也从中获得了大量经验，明白某些决策行不通。我原以为可能成功。所以这个测试引擎很重要，正所谓'投资前先测试'。

know, there are different ways of doing it and I think that has brought, if we talk about the softer values, know, ways of working to the organisation, it's also wow, this is a toolbox that I can use to, it supports me. If I'm a product owner, I can look at that and say, okay, this is something that supports me and help me populate my deliverables, but also my learnings, because even if we don't go further, we're the ones who we didn't decide to integrate or to bring to market. It's a lot of learnings in that and we understand, you know, this decision, no, it will not work. I thought it might. So this testing engine, I think it's an important piece, you know, test before you invest.

某种意义上，它是帮助产品负责人快速决策的工具。

We can make quick, it's a decision helper in a way for the product owners.

是的，这个观点很好。回到影响力问题，你们能否为每个项目估算美元价值？比如在进行整合时，如果

Yeah, I think this is a good point. And going back to impact, are you able to associate any dollar value to each of the project? Meaning, when you want to enter integration? If take

以那项知识产权收购为例，产品负责人可以计算：要达到这个阶段大约需要多少全职人力？然后评估价值，这样就能进行实际对比。这是我们努力的方向。当然，CTO特别强调的还有经验教训。

the IP acquisition there, you could actually say, okay, if I was the product owner, so how many full time equivalent employees would you need to bring you to this stage approximately? And then, okay, what is the value? Then you can really compare it. So I think that's what we try to do. But also, and here the CTO is very specific, the learnings.

实际上我在这里运用了学术界的资源，让一些论文研究者来研究这个问题。如何衡量文化对大型组织的影响？这非常有趣。他们也有自己的观点，因此我们将这些融入工作方式中以汲取经验。我们内部会针对具体价值验证项目开展数字化会议。

And here I have used academia actually, some thesis workers to look at that. How do you measure the culture impact to a large organization? That's very interesting. And they have also points, so we have implemented that into our way of working to bring the learnings. So we have internal digital sessions with the specific proof of value projects.

每年五次，每个项目半小时，每次十分钟，由产品负责人讲述项目经验、遇到的挑战、发生的情况、获得的经验教训以及基于商业案例的后续计划。然后我们向整个沃尔沃集团组织广播这些内容。此外每年还举办两次开放日活动，邀请外部人士分享我们的学习成果。当然这些经验颇具竞争性，但无论如何，高效分享经验是这一机制的重要方面。

It's five times a year, half an hour each project, ten minutes each, where the product owner says this was the learnings from this project, this was my challenge, this is what's happened, this is the learnings and this is my plan forward with business case. And then we broadcast that out to the entire Volvo Group organisation. And then we also have open house two times a year, you know, where we invite also externals to share what we have learned. Of course, then it's pretty competitive learnings, but anyway, it's an important aspect of this is to share the learnings in an efficient way.

你们向公司其他部门分享经验。另一个直接的问题是：如何衡量文化影响力？我认为当前我们在谈论开放式创新时面临的一个问题是，虽然毫无疑问你们所做的工作非常有价值，但难点在于如何量化创造的价值。问题在于大部分价值都是无形的。

And you share to the rest of the company. This is another nice immediate question is how you measure the cultural impact. Because I think one of the problem that we are facing today, talking about open innovation, I think today there is no doubt that what you guys have been doing is very useful. The problem is how measure the value that has been created. The problem is most of the value is intangible.

关于创新，确实每个解决方案都可能存在商业案例。你可以开始规划可能带来的额外收入或成本节约，包括节省的时间和提高的生产力。这些都可以估算，但大部分价值将在未来几年逐渐显现，所以连这三项都难以准确预估。此外还有其他衍生效益，比如文化变革、品牌效应、战略影响等。你们实质上是在帮助公司展望未来，重塑战略。

And innovation, most of the guys is, yes, there might be a business case for each of the solution. You can start planning what could be the extra revenue or the cost savings associated with all the time savings, the increase of productivity. Again, can be estimated, but most of the value will happen down the way in the next coming years, so it's already difficult to estimate this three. And then there is other, let's say, collateral benefits, let's say cultural change, branding, strategic impact. Again, you are helping the company to look into the future, so substantially to reshaping the strategy.

说得更直白些，你们是在帮助公司生存。虽然你们确实在交付这些成果，但衡量起来非常困难。当管理层变动时，常会出现这种情况：人们会问'你们做了什么'，而回答只能是'我们做了这些那些'。

So you're helping a company to survive if we want to be a bit more drastic in in in my way of saying so. And then all this stuff is for sure you're delivering, but it's very difficult to to measure. And then that's sometimes create when there is a governor change at a certain point where people say, what you've done? We've done this, this, and that. Okay.

具体来说确实难以衡量。在企业界有时面临的困境是：无法证明价值存在。这是大多数公司面临的问题。

But concretely, difficult to measure. And then difficult to measure in the corporate world sometimes is there is no value. That's the problem that most of the company face.

是的。请允许我补充说明我们在瑞典的创新机构，我们与他们有大量合作。比如这80个项目成本都很低，一方面因为周期短，但我们始终会支付初创企业项目费用。我们的创新机构也清楚，他们的职责就是支持大企业与小型初创公司合作，并帮助初创企业获得大公司客户。

Yeah. And here, if I may also complement our innovation agency in Sweden here, I think we are collaborating a lot with them as well. So if I would say these 80 projects, they have been very little cost. So I think that is also because they are short, but we always pay the startups to do the projects, obviously. But here, our innovation agency, they also also see that well in their task, is to support large corporations working with smaller startups and to support to start, you know, to get the big corporations as a client.

所以他们是受到支持的，你知道，我们与瑞典的创新机构Vinnova有一个合作项目，这就是创新。我们正在与瑞典的其他汽车行业参与者一起进行，包括沃尔沃汽车和斯堪尼亚这些竞争对手。但我们共享的不是内容，而是工作方式。通过这个项目，我们分享经验教训，也探讨作为大企业如何高效协作并与初创公司共同创造。这样我们与创新机构共担风险，尽管项目成本不高，但这传递了我们对此的信念和共同践行的决心。在沃尔沃集团整体上，这种工作方式有很强的认同感，因为我们需要将合作伙伴纳入我们的常规运作中。

So they are supported, you know, we have a program together with our innovation agency here in Sweden called Vinnova, that's the innovation And we are doing it together with other automotive players in Sweden, which is Volvo Cars and Scania, our competitors. But what we share there is not the content, we share the way of working. So with that program, we share the learnings also how can we as a large corporation collaborate in an efficient way and co create together with startups. So then we share the risks with the innovation agency, even though the projects are not costly, it's still, you know, it's a message also that we believe in it and we are doing it together. And in Volvo Group overall, you know, there is a strong belief in this way of working, because we need to add partners into our normal way.

你知道，伙伴关系就是新型领导力，这是我们首席执行官经常在各种场合强调的理念，我们对此深信不疑。这是一种创造双赢工作模式的方式，我们负责提供工具箱，使与初创公司的合作对双方都高效且有价值。这必须是公平的，我认为公平对待我们和初创公司同样重要。

You know, the partnership is the new leadership, that's usually what our chief executive officer is stating as in many, many different occasions and we strongly believe in it. So it is a way to, you know, create this win win way of working and that we are responsible for the toolbox to make the collaboration with startups as efficient and as valuable for both of us. So it has to be fair and I think that is also an important aspect that it's fair to both us and the startups.

你再次提到最初的资本支出项目，我们称之为介于加速器和风险客户之间的模式，在工业化前期阶段，我们已经理解了它的本质。但你补充了其他工具。一个是被称为孵化器的模式，我认为是由Robert van Jan van Voragt领导的。另外还有风险构建者。你能帮我们理解这两种额外工具分别覆盖哪些需求吗？

You also, again, the original CapEx project, we say something between accelerator and venture client, pre industrialization, again, we understood what it is. But you added down the way to other tools. One is what is called incubator that is, I think, is led by Robert van Jan van Voragt. And and then there is also the the venture builder. Can you help us to understand what needs these two additional tools are covering?

当然，我很乐意。加速器是我们最初启动的项目，当我们看到它奏效后，就开始设立你提到的那些枢纽，包括印度、法国和北美。它们目前仍是紧凑型的

Sure, I'd be happy to. So the Accelerator, that's where we started, and that's where we actually, when we saw it worked, we started to inaugurate the hubs, as you mentioned already, India, France and North America. They are Compact still

目前正在四个枢纽间运作，对吧？

as is working across the four hubs currently, right?

抱歉？

Sorry?

Campex作为加速器组件，目前已在哥德堡、里昂、班加罗尔和美国部署，对吗？

Campex, as is the accelerator component, is currently deployed in Gothenburg, in Lyon, in Bangalore, in The US, right?

没错，这正是Campex的主要业务。但当我们看到加速器运作良好时，我们就能引入更多资源，扩大规模，真正创造价值。同时我们也发现早期初创企业存在未被发掘的价值，这实际上是在以某种方式增强可持续交通生态系统的力量，为我们的合作奠定坚实基础。

Exactly. And that is the main activity in Campex. But when, so when we saw the accelerator, it works, you know, and we can bring in more and more and we can do more, we can scale this. So it really brings value. But we also saw that there is untapped value in the earlier stage startups, but then it's more to make the sustainable transport ecosystem more powerful in a way and make that strong for us to collaborate with.

所以这是早期阶段。它并非针对当前面临的挑战，而是具有机会主义性质。可以说我们投资的是更长期的价值。在这方面我也会依赖产品负责人，但更多是基于信念而非具体挑战背后的行动计划或成功后的实施方案。

So it's early stage. It's not targeting the challenges here and now, you know, but it's opportunistic. So it's more long term value that we invest in, you could say. And here I also lean on the product owners, but not so much to stand behind the initiative in terms of the challenge and have a plan for implementation if it's successful. It's more a believe.

他们必须相信这对未来可持续交通创新生态系统至关重要。实际上是要共同发展创新生态系统。孵化器里的运作模式是：由一位坚信该领域对未来重要的产品业务负责人牵头，我们瞄准并物色早期初创企业；而加速器里的项目显然更成熟——比如那些可能成为沃尔沃客户的企业。但这里是早期阶段，所以项目流通常来自大学孵化器走向全球。

So they have to believe that this is important for the future in the sustainable transport innovation ecosystem. It's actually to develop the innovation ecosystem together. So what happens in the incubator is that we have a product business owner who believes and thinks this is an important area for the future. We target and scout for early stage startup, whereas in the accelerator, it's more mature, obviously, if they should have Volvo as a client, but here is early stage. So the deal flow is very often from university incubators towards the world.

他们必须留在这里——目前是在我身后的哥德堡。这里就像一个温室，我们帮助他们扩大规模。产业孵化机构难以提供的行业相关性和专业知识，正是我们带来的核心价值。进入这里意味着你将与所有工作人员共事，签署各类文件合同，更重要的是能与产品负责人、业务负责人以及我们这家大企业里其他领域的专家并肩协作。

They have to stay here. For now it's in Gothenburg behind me here. And here they have, it's like a greenhouse. So we support them in scaling and what we bring, which is hard for industry incubators to bring is industry relevance and expertise. So, you know, if you get in here, you're with all the people who works here and you of course sign all the documents and contracts and things, but you are here together with the product owners, the business owners, but also with other areas of expertise that we have in a large corporation.

人力资源是重要组成部分，对小型初创企业而言尤为关键。当他们带着创意或原型来到这里时，我们如何支持其扩大规模并在市场上取得成功？这就是整个计划的核心理念——支持并强化周边生态系统。当然在哥德堡会形成本地生态圈，但我们也会引入愿意搬迁至此的初创企业。

You know, HR, it's a big piece. It's huge. So for a small startup who maybe have an idea or a prototype when they come here, how do we support them in scaling and becoming successful on the market? So that is the whole idea to just support and strengthen the ecosystem around. It's of course in Gothenburg then it becomes the local ecosystem, but we are bringing in startups from who are willing to move here if they are not already here.

北欧地区可以说是主要目标范围。目前是两年试点期，若取得成功我们自然会推广开来。

So Northern Europe, I would say is probably more the target area. But if it's successful, it's a pilot now for two years, successful we will of course bring it.

你们会持有孵化初创企业的股权吗？还是仅仅提供扶持？

Are you taking equity for the startup that you incubate or no? You just hold them?

作为一个起点，但你知道，你可以两年后再来问我，到时候我们再看。

As a starting point, but you know, you can ask me in two years and then we'll see.

不，这很有道理。

No, it makes sense.

我们边做边学，但这并非初衷。

We learn as we go, But but that's not the idea.

我总是被那些说‘这就是我们正在遵循并将改变的方式’的人吓到，因为我认为这是做不成事的唯一配方。毕竟世界变化如此之快，做一成不变的事绝非好主意，从来都不是。但我们不该这么做。这就是孵化器部分，然后我们理解了。接下来还有风险构建环节。

I'm always scared by people who say that's the way that we are following and going to change, because I think it's the only recipe for doing something that won't work. Because, again, the world is changing so fast that doing something that doesn't change is not a good idea, never in that way, but we're not to do it. So that was the incubator piece, and then got it. And then there is the venture builder.

没错。这部分由Karin Falk领导。我们在这里关注的是，我们希望成为内部想法和知识产权的着陆点——那些可能略微偏离沃尔沃核心业务，但我们仍想利用资本支出工具来验证的领域。重点或许不在技术本身，而在于商业价值。这有市场潜力吗？如果有，我们如何将其推向市场？

Exactly. And that is led by Karin Falk. And here we are looking at, you know, we want to be a landing point for internal ideas and IP that we have that maybe is a little bit out of core for Volvo, but still we want to use the CapEx toolbox to validate is there maybe not so much around the tech, but more about the business value. Is that a market potential for this? And in that case, how do we bring it to market?

因此很多工作都围绕这一点展开。整个理念是为沃尔沃创造新的收入来源。可以通过常规市场渠道实现，比如通过沃尔沃卡车或工程机械面向客户销售；也可以分拆成立独立企业，沃尔沃作为共同所有者参与，类似合资企业。实际上这里有多种路径可以根据具体情况推向市场。

So it's a lot around that. And the whole idea is to generate new revenue streams for Volvo. And it can be done through our normal market channels through, for example, Volvo traps or construction equipment towards their customers, or we spin it out and it becomes a venture of its own where Volvo is co owner, like a joint venture. So there are many tracks here to actually bring it to market case by case.

确实如此。这些创意都来自内部员工。你们是否有结构化计划，比如创业计划？还是采用开放形式——当有人有想法时直接提出来？

Really, yes. And the origination comes from internal employees. Do you have a structured program like an entrepreneurship program or is an open format when someone has an idea just ring

是的，这涉及多方面的工作，但我们正与负责内部创新的团队合作。我们不是Campex，而是工具箱，但我们与他们协作。当我们发现有望解决实际问题的技术时——要知道，我本身就是工程师，有开发背景且热爱科技——我会因为‘哇，这个技术方案真有趣’而做很多尝试。但核心问题是：它的价值究竟在哪里？

Yeah, well, it's a little bit of different things, but we are working together with the ones who are responsible for the internal innovation. It's not Campex, we are the toolbox, but we work with them. And if we find something that is promising, solving a real problem, you know, I'm an engineer myself and I worked in development and I love tech. So I have done a lot of things just because it's wow, look at this, it's an interesting tech solution. But what is the value?

有时我们需要大量引导：这其中的商业潜力是什么？如果通过价值验证项目（我们在创投构建器中也运行这类项目）确认了价值，并证明存在潜力，我们就能将其推向市场。我们不会固守创意落地的固定模式，而是通过与IT团队等多轮迭代来审核方案。如果有前景明朗的项目——这里我可以举个现成的例子，如果你想听的话。

Sometimes we need to guide a lot in this. What is the business potential in this? So if there is a value that is being identified through the proof of value project, because we run that in the venture builder as well, And there is proven that, wow, there is a potential here, then we can bring it to market. So we don't keep the structure on how these ideas are being brought, but we are vetting it through some iterations with the IT team, for example, you know, working with them. And then if there is something that is promising, and here I can actually take a clear example, if you want.

当然，请讲。

Yeah, sure.

好。欧洲即将出台一项法规，要求申报轮胎压力，因为这对排放影响重大。随之而来的是需要校准轮胎与车轴的匹配。如果能实现自动化，就能为装配厂节省时间。于是装配厂提出希望获得自动化解决方案。

Yeah. So we had, there is a legislation in Europe coming now where you have to declare your tyre pressure because it has such an impact on the emissions. And with that, you need to calibrate what tyre is on what axle. So if you could automize this, you save some time in the assembly plant. So the assembly plants said, we would like to have a solution here to automize this.

我们研发部门有人主动请缨，但问题在于：谁愿意开发这个？是否要启动全套流程？最终决定先让Campeks验证可行性。我们引入了一家初创公司，其实技术难度并不算太高。

Okay, we have one guy in the R and D who said, I want to do this, but you know, who is willing to develop this? Should we bring it to the, yeah, you know, the whole thing? And the decision was to say, okay, let's see if Campeks can check if it's possible. So we brought in a startup. The tech was not that tricky, actually.

他们用传感器实现了方案——我并非说这很简单，确实存在复杂度，但他们处理得很好。但随之而来的问题是：如何市场化？是通过我们负责工厂业务的部门吗？他们通常不销售这类产品。还是通过沃尔沃卡车？

So realized with some sensors, I should not say it was not that difficult, but of course it was complicated, but they managed in a good way. But then the question was, so who is, how should we bring this to market? Should we bring it to market through our arm for factories, operations arm? They don't sell things like that normally. Should it be Volvo Trucks?

这并非他们的核心业务。最终我们确认了价值：市场存在空白且没有竞争。与其让知识产权沉睡，我们通过分拆公司Silicom将其推向市场，现在它已成功上市。这就是一个完整的商业化案例。

It's not really their core, you know. So instead the value was identified. There was a market potential, an opening, there was no competition there. So instead of just letting that IP being developed and then, okay, nothing happened, we brought it to market through a spin out called Silicom, which is now on the market. So that is how it can happen.

我们还有另一个项目，是为车头灯设计的智能解决方案的知识产权。这个方案非常契合北欧国家的市场需求，因为当地光线较暗。当你在森林中驾驶时，会遇到各种动物和其他情况。因此我们开发了智能照明系统，既能应对动物出没，也能智能调节与其他车辆的会车灯光。这个方案通过沃尔沃卡车北欧分公司快速推向市场。

And then we have another, which was an IP for a smart solution for the headlights. And that is very, the market need or the market demand was for the Nordic countries because it's quite dark. Then you drive, there is forests and animals and things. So there is an intelligent way to when you have animals, but also when you meet other traffic, how to be intelligent about the lighting. So that was also brought to market quickly through the Nordic, the market company Nordic for Volvo Trucks.

这就是目前市场上的卡车解决方案案例。这是通过沃尔沃卡车实现的另一个范例。

So that's the truck solutions on the market. That's another example. That's That's through Volvo tracks.

这是内部流程，实质上在风险构建中，部分解决方案会以合资形式与创始团队共同孵化，而其他开发者则根据需求移交给业务部门和品牌方。

That's internally, so substantially out of the venture building, some solution are spun out in a joint venture between you and the originators, while other developer hand over to their business unit and the brand as needed, yes.

完全正确，通过合作伙伴关系实现。本案中也采用了合作模式。但快速推向市场才是核心理念——知识产权归沃尔沃所有，但能快速产生收益流并创造市场价值。如果无人问津，自然无法成交。

Exactly, through partnerships. In this case, it was also a partnership here. But to bring it to market quickly, That's the idea in this case. So you have the IP, it was Volvo owned, but you could generate revenue streams in a quick way and bring value to market. If no one was interested, would not buy it.

但这个项目获得了热烈反响。

But here was a big interest.

作为讨论的收尾，请分享几条建议：如果要向同行传授经验，您认为最重要的三点、两点或一点心得是什么？

Final question for you to close our discussion is, if you have to provide some tips, learnings, share some learnings with your peers, what have been your top three, top two, top one, whatever you prefer.

这是个很好的问题。我之前提到过公平原则，我认为信任至关重要。虽然我们是大型企业，但始终与所有合作方保持平等协商——这需要集团内部高度协同。简化合同条款和采购谈判时，保持公平态度是成功关键。不能像对待大型供应商那样对待初创企业，必须在讨论和协议中体现公平性。

Yeah, that's a very good question. I think I talked a little bit about being fair, and I think trust is very important. So even though we are a big company, we always make with everyone who is engaged, and this is a big group activity internally. So it's legal is absolutely critical for making this work with simpler contracts and negotiations with purchasing equally important to negotiate in a fair way. You cannot treat startups the same way you do big suppliers, but to be mindful about that and bring in fairness in the discussion and also in the agreements.

因此，你不仅要与产品和业务负责人建立信任和信誉，还要与领导层建立信任。要知道，他们确实相信我们正在创造价值。你可以相信我们会竭尽全力运用我们共同开发的工具箱。信任是这一切的基础，需要保持透明，并公开内部工作。我认为这非常重要。

And then so you build trust and credibility, but also internally with product and business owners, as well as with leadership. So you know, they really trust that, you know, we are bringing in value. You can trust that we will do our utmost to use our toolbox that we have developed, we are developing together. So trust is one big piece to work on that and be transparent and open internally around what you do. So I think that is very important.

对我们来说，关键在于与产品和业务负责人保持紧密联系。

And for us, the key has really been to be close to the product and business owners.

这是你多次强调的一个好观点。

That's a good point that you stress a lot of times.

是的，要贴近战略，并成为更强大的战略工具。这样你就能在投资前测试想法，就像我之前提到的，作为决策引擎快速尝试新事物，从而加速创新。

Yeah, to be close to the strategy and also to be this even stronger strategic tool. So you can test things before you invest, you know, and like I mentioned before, as a decision engine to quickly be able to actually try out new things and accelerate innovation in that manner.

是的，我认为这是个好观点。已部署的模型也清楚地表明你们正在践行承诺，与业务和产品负责人紧密合作。我认为这是正确的发展方向。非常感谢这次对话，让我们了解到新工具的实施、所做的改变，以及你们通过演示展现的有趣进展。非常感谢。

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I think also the model that has been deployed, I think is a clear sign that you are trying to walk the talk and being close with the business and product owners. So I think that is a good way to go. So thank you so much for this conversation Yeah, thank in a while to understand what new tool has been implemented, what has been changed, some interesting progress that you have done with someone's presentation. Thank you so much.

很乐意。谢谢，再见。

Would be happy to. Thanks. Bye.

感谢大家今天的参与，我们下期《开放创新对话：Mind the Bridge与行业领袖访谈》再见。

Thank you for being with us today and see you in the next episode of Open Innovation Talks Mind the Bridge Chat with Industry Leaders.