第四集 - AI如何改变教育

大家好，我是安德鲁·梅恩，这里是OpenAI播客。今天我们要聊聊ChatGPT与教育。它会导致大脑退化吗？ChatGPT只是作弊工具吗？我们将对话OpenAI教育负责人莉娅·贝尔斯克，以及几位活跃用户学生。

Hello, I'm Andrew Main, and this is the OpenAI Podcast. Today, we're going to talk about ChatGPT and education. Does it cause brain rot? Is ChatGPT just a tool for cheating? We're going to speak with Leah Belske, head of education at OpenAI, and a couple students who are active users.

如今的ChatGPT已是全球最大的学习平台。

ChatGPT at this point is now the world's largest learning platform.

它能帮你过滤干扰，专注于真正热爱的事物。

It allows you to kind of cut through the noise and do things that you actually enjoy.

ChatGPT将为这个女孩打开世界的大门，而我无需再像从前那样担忧。

ChatGPT was gonna unlock the world for this girl, and I was not gonna have to be worried in the same way.

在学习和探索想法时，我向ChatGPT提过大量这类问题。

When it comes to learning and exploring ideas, I asked ChatGPT a lot of those questions.

请谈谈你加入OpenAI的历程。

Tell me about your journey to OpenAI.

要知道，OpenAI本质上关乎使命与人。至少让我分享我的故事——我在教育领域深耕十五年后加入OpenAI，从世界银行到Coursera，始终致力于让全球享有教育机会。当我接手这份工作时，首席运营官布拉德让我进办公室，当时我还在思索OpenAI教育板块的具体方向。

You know, I think ultimately OpenAI is about a mission and about its people. And so I'll tell you at least my my story. So I came to OpenAI after spending fifteen years in the education space starting at the World Bank and then at Coursera focused on this mission of making education accessible to the world. And when I and I took on this job, Brad, our COO, he brought he brought me into the office. And, you know, I was wondering what what the exact focus of education at OpenAI would be.

他让我坐下说道：'莉娅，我要你实现那个宏伟目标。我们都梦想着AI能激发人类潜能，成为人们终身的良师益友。去追逐那个梦想吧。'

And and he sat me down and he said, Leah, know, I want you to go after the moonshot. We all have this dream that that AI could improve human potential, that it could be an effective tutor and a companion for people throughout their lives. Go after that dream.

嗯。

Mhmm.

并确保当我们打造出这个产品时，全世界每个人都能拥有它。这始终是指引我们的北极星。来自市场拓展和营收负责人的这番话，让我觉得意义非凡。

And make sure that once we build that product, everyone in the world can have it. And that's really been the the north star. And I thought that was meaningful, you know, from the the head of go to market, the head of revenue

嗯。

Mhmm.

也就是说，要追求最具变革性的宏伟目标，以实现我们对AI和教育所抱有的最高期望与梦想。

To say, go after the biggest transformative moonshot so that the highest hopes and dreams that we all have for AI and education can be realized.

这个想法既鼓舞人心又充满希望——尽可能广泛地推广它。你如何看待其全球影响力？我们如何见证它在世界各地产生的效果？

That's pretty inspiring and unhopeful, the idea of trying to make this widespread as possible. How do you see basically global impact? How are we going to see the effects of this around the world?

目前ChatGPT已是全球最大的学习平台，学习是其最核心的应用场景之一。拥有6亿用户意味着它已成为世界级的学习目的地——而且是教育体系之外的学习。我真正将ChatGPT视为学习的新前沿。

Well, thing to say is ChatGPT at this point is now the world's largest learning platform. Learning is one of the top use cases on the platform. At 600,000,000 users, that means it is the world's learning destination. And that means learning outside of the educational system. I really see ChatGPT as a new frontier for learning.

但我们也看到教师是该平台的主要采用群体，他们既用它减轻行政工作负担，也将其引入课堂。令人震惊的是全球对ChatGPT的需求——几周前我们启动了'OpenAI for Countries'计划。

But we also see that teachers are major adopters of the of the of the platform, and they are using that both to get rid of the administrative burden of their own work, but also to to bring it to their classroom. What's been striking is to just see the global demand for ChatGPT. So a few weeks ago, we launched a a program called OpenAI for Countries.

嗯。

Mhmm.

全球多国教育部都联系我们，爱沙尼亚是最早响应的国家之一

And we've had ministries all over the world reach out. Estonia, the country of Estonia was actually one of the first countries that reached

爱沙尼亚很合理。

Estonia makes sense.

爱沙尼亚确实合理。他们处于世界领先地位，PISA成绩顶尖，教育体系卓越。但他们最先意识到：这是让学生更进一步、赋能教师的机遇。

Estonia makes sense. They are they are the top of the world. They have some of the best PISA scores. They have an amazing educational system. But they were the first to realize, wow, this is an opportunity to, like, push students even further and to empower our teachers even further.

继爱沙尼亚后，各国接踵而至。有趣的是，这些国家找我们不仅想将AI作为教育核心基础设施部署，更因感受到经济转型的压力——他们意识到要建设AI驱动型经济，就必须培养会使用AI的劳动力。所以这不只是开设新AI课程那么简单。

And after Estonia, it's been one country after another. And what's interesting is that when the countries come to us, you know, they're coming to us because they wanna deploy AI as core infrastructure through their education system, But they're also coming to us because they're feeling, like, the impact of an economic transition. Mhmm. And they're realizing that if they are going to be developing an AI powered economy, they need to they need to graduate a workforce that learns how to use AI. And so it's not just about creating new AI courses.

他们需要确保每位引领中学教育体系的学生都在课堂上使用过AI。这就是这些国家的双重关注点——既追求经济竞争力，又想培养适应AI的劳动力，在AI驱动的新经济中取得成功，同时改进教育体系。

They need to make sure that every student who leads their secondary school system has used AI as part of their class. And so it's that it's that dual focus of these countries. They're looking to be economically competitive. They wanna build an AI ready workforce. They wanna be successful in a new AI powered economy, and they wanna improve their education system.

你从教育合作伙伴和机构那里听到了哪些反馈？

What are you hearing from educational partners and institutions?

我们主要听到两方面声音。那些已投入使用的院校为实现了校园AI资源平等化感到自豪，他们坚信AI应成为校园核心基础设施并向所有人开放。这些院校意识到，在引入AI前，往往会出现经济宽裕的学生购买最新模型使用权，而资源匮乏者被排除在外的状况，因此对推动公平访问充满使命感。

So we're hearing a couple of things. I think those that have made the investment feel a certain pride that they have equalized access to AI on their campuses. They are they really believe that AI should be core infrastructure for the campus and that it should be open to everyone. They're conscious that, you know, before introducing AI in many campus, you you'll be find a situation where those who are not on financial aid will be buying access to the latest models and those who don't have access to resources will not. So there's a there's a pride in in driving equal access.

这些院校也迫切希望相互交流，了解教师将技术引入课堂的前五或前十种应用方式。但另一类反馈是，学生对校方提供的AI工具存在顾虑。除非大学明确声明不会监控使用记录、不查看对话内容，否则学生不愿采纳。值得注意的是，当前大学生群体正是经历疫情的一代。

I think their institutions are also hungry to engage with each other and collaborate and understand what are the top five or 10 ways in which faculty are using the tech and bringing it into the classroom. The other type piece of feedback that we're getting, though, is that students are hesitant to use some of the school provided AI. And unless universities make a big point of telling students that we're not monitoring this tech, we're not looking at your conversations, students are are hesitant to adopt it. You know, what's striking is that the generation of students that is in universities right now is the COVID generation.

确实。

Right.

对吧？他们的技术初体验充斥着Zoom网课、老师隔着屏幕呵斥或监控作业的场景，这种创伤使得他们对教育技术充满戒备。大学逐渐意识到，若想让学生通过ChatGPT进行新型学习，必须先建立真正的信任关系。

Right? They are used to having some of their first experiences with tech be about, like, Zoom and Global Classroom and having, you know, teachers screaming at them or monitoring and telling them they're not doing that homework while they're all sitting at home going crazy. And so they're hesitant about educational technology and universities are realizing that if they want to engage with students and help students learn in new ways with ChatGPT, they need to build an actual trust with students.

是啊米奇，之前那些AI检测工具简直糟透了——我既能演示如何让原创文本被误判为AI生成，也能教人规避检测。使用这种劣质工具只会让师生关系始于猜忌，想想那些被冤枉作弊的诚实学生...

Yeah. Mitch, just before, like I was frustrated because like the AI detectors were terrible. Like there were these AI detect, like one, I could show somebody how to write text that would be flagged as AI and also how to prompt a thing to avoid it. And that just created this you know, relationship that started off if you're using a bad tool like that, you know, you you take one or two students who didn't cheat and told they're cheaters. That's just

没错。许多院校在课堂AI应用上起步就走偏了——教师没有制定明确的使用规范，反而回避问题。我们最初执着于技术监管，而非重新设计作业评估体系。不过现在正在跨越这个阶段。

Yeah. In in many institutions, I would say we got off onto the wrong foot with AI in the classroom Instead of trying to be explicit and establish clear policies on when students should use the tech and when they shouldn't, teachers sort of hid from it. Mhmm. We started with policing its use rather than actually sitting there and figuring out how do we actually want to redesign the way we assess students and the way we assign homework. But I think we're moving we're moving beyond that point.

对。有个学区最初条件反射式地封杀AI，但几个月后教师们集体发声：'这是绝佳的教学工具，我们知道如何驾驭'，最终促成政策逆转——看到教育工作者主动拥抱未来，这很鼓舞人心。

Yeah. I've been encouraged and we we saw I remember when I was here, we had one school system that was like had kind of a knee jerk reaction said we're banning it. And it was like a few months later, they had enough teachers within there going, hey, no, this is a really good tool. We know how to teach to this. And they said, okay, we're going to reverse that now.

现在有了学习模式，能详细说说吗？

And that was, it was very good to see energized teachers embrace this and say, in wanting their students to understand they knew this was gonna be part of the future. Well, now there's study mode. Could you talk a little about that?

学习模式是我们刚推出的产品，旨在显著提升ChatGPT的学习体验，将其从单纯提供答案转变为真正引导学生自主寻找答案。在学习模式下，ChatGPT采用苏格拉底式回答，根据用户的学习水平个性化调整回应，理解学习上下文，并提出优质的后续问题。

So study mode is a product we just launched and it is intended to take really improved learning in chat GPT and take it from an experience that is just focused on giving answers to really guiding a student to get to the answers. So study in study mode, chat GPT answers socratically. It personalizes responses to sort of the level of your learning. It understands the context of what you're learning. It asks great follow-up questions.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它会询问你是否想进行主题测验，鼓励你深入探索。这标志着我们向‘ChatGPT作为导师’理念迈出的第一步。

It asks if you wanna have a quiz on the topic. It encourages you to to go deeper. And ultimately, this is a first step to really leaning into this idea of ChatGPT as a tutor.

这个功能是如何诞生的？是否与教育工作者和家长进行过相关讨论？

So how did this come about? Was there conversations with educators and parents about this?

学习模式源于我们团队在印度的考察——哇——他们发现几个关键现象：首先，在印度这样的地方，家庭将人均收入的很大比例用于课外辅导；其次，年轻人对提升自我有着极强的意愿。

So Study Mood actually came out of a trip that our team took in India Oh, wow. Where they had a few where they realized a few things. One, they realized that in a place like India, families were spending a huge percentage of their per capita income on tutors Mhmm. And after school help. They also realized that there was just a tremendous will and desire among young people to get to get to the next level.

于是我们开始思考：如何将ChatGPT打造成比现有形态更优秀的导师？作为我第一次参与AI产品开发，我们首先构建了一个融合学习科学与教育专家建议的框架——ChatGPT不应直接给答案，而要真正促进学习。随后我们与全球专家合作收集‘黄金范例’

And so, you know, we began this journey of, like, what would it take to actually get Chatuchupti and turn Chatuchupti into an even better tutor than it already is? And so we started by, you know, and this was my first my first experience building like an AI product. So we started actually building a schema informed by learning science and informed by pedagogical experts that said, how should Chatuchu tea respond? It's not just gonna give answers, but it's gonna actually help you you learn. And then we work with open with experts around the world to gather what we call golden examples

嗯。

Mhmm.

这些范例定义了ChatGPT的理想回应方式：语气是否鼓舞人心？能否激发好奇心？能否根据学生需求调整回答层次？通过反复训练模型的过程，最终孕育出了学习模式。

Of how Chatuchu tea would ideally respond. Is the tone encouraging? Does it encourage curiosity? Does it cater a response to the level of a student's need? And through that process of sort of going back and forth and training the model, that's how study merge study mode emerged.

我们非常期待看到用户反馈，但这显然只是个开端。

And I would say we're super excited to see the feedback on this product out in the world, but it's also very much a beginning.

是的，这是起点。

Yeah, it's a starting point.

这是一个起点。我们实际上还处于推动模型以多模态方式回应的早期阶段。想象有一天，你可以要求学习模式为你提供生物学作业的样例来解释有机化学，弹出交互式图表，或者在几周后提醒你：还记得你告诉我想在今年有机化学考试中拿高分吗？我们现在重新复习这个话题如何？

It's a starting point. We're really only in the early stages of pushing the way in which the model can respond in multimodal ways. One day you could imagine asking study mode to give you samples of a biology assignment to explain organic chemistry and to pop up interactive diagrams or to nudge you three weeks down the road. Do you remember you told me that you wanted to ace this year's organic chemistry exam? We dig back into the topic now?

它可以主动伴随你长期学习。我认为随着时间推移，目标是将学习模式发展到那种程度。

It could be proactive and really sort of travel with you over time. And I think over time, the hope is to get study mode to that point.

那太棒了。我能预见它结合间隔重复法后，会成为不仅帮助通过考试，更能长期巩固记忆的优质工具。你刚才提到一个重点——某些家庭能负担私教费用，辅导项目固然很好。当我们讨论教育机会差异时，同一所学校的孩子，能获得课外辅导的那些往往会有更好的发展前景。

That'd be great. Yeah, I could see that combined with spaced repetition and you could have just a really good tool that doesn't just help you pass the test, but help you remember it for a long time. And I think you touched about something there, is that in certain households, they can afford to have private tutors, tutoring program's great. And we talk about kind of the differences in educational opportunities. You can have a bunch of kids that go to the same school, but the parents that are able to have the kid go to a tutor are going to be in a situation where their child's gonna a higher chance of an outcome.

现在你将其视为均衡器。看，我

Now you see this as a leveler. Look, I

认为AI对教育产生重大影响的第一个领域甚至不在教室，而是在课外——它正在均衡化获取类似成人辅导的资源。嗯。世界上许多学生无法获得优质教师资源，也请不起家教。

think the first place where AI is having a huge impact in education is not even in the classroom. It's outside of the classroom where it's equalizing access to what's really like adult support. Mhmm. There are many students out in the world who don't have access to a quality teacher. They don't have access to tutors.

他们也没有能坐下来辅导他们的父母。而现在通过AI，他们可以获得这样一个伙伴：能鼓励他们，对作业和写作给予反馈，帮助解答难题。我们成立了ChatGPT学生用户实验室（ChatGPT Lab），你稍后会采访其中几位学生。

They don't have access to parents who are gonna sit down and help them. And now with AI, they can have this companion who can encourage them, who can give feedback on their homework, on their writing, who can help help them answer tough questions. We we formed a a lab of of student users of ChatGPT. It's called ChatGPT lab. I think you're gonna talk to a few of the students.

最触动我的是他们说使用AI给了他们信心。

And one thing that really struck me is they said using using AI gave them confidence.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在那些原本会感到卡壳或沮丧的时刻，AI给予了支持。有位计算机专业学生分享了他在课堂上的经历。

And it got to them in place where, formally, they would feel stuck or they would feel discouraged. One of the students told the story of being in the classroom as a computer science student.

嗯。

Mhmm.

多年来，她在计算机科学课程中屡屡受挫，开始萌生放弃的念头。她看不懂教材。但当她在校外使用ChatGPT作为辅导工具时，她突然意识到：原来我可以提问，我能理解这些内容。这让她重拾信心，觉得自己或许真的能继续坚持下去。

And for many years, she would get stuck in her computer science courses, she started to give up. She couldn't understand the textbooks. But when she used ChatGPT out of school as a as a tutor, she started to feel like, oh, I can ask questions. I can understand this. Like, I have confidence and maybe I can actually continue and move forward.

我认为这就像现实中的导师作用——他们给予鼓励，让你产生'我能行、我想继续前进'的信心。当然，他们还会根据情境和个人特点传授知识。而ChatGPT完全可以胜任所有这些功能。

And so I think it's as much you if you think about what tutors do in the world, they give you encouragement, they give you a sense of confidence that I can and I want and I can move forward. And then of course they deliver the content in contextual and personal ways. I think chattypu can do all of these things.

那么在个人层面，AI如何提升工作效率？你会给人们什么建议？

So when it comes to workforce productivity, how does that work on a personal scale? What advice would you give to people?

最新数据表明，职场中使用AI的员工生产力显著提升。这在专业服务和金融领域尤为明显，但如今任何毕业生都必须掌握AI的日常应用技能——无论是求职阶段还是入职后。正因如此，高校正将AI作为核心基础设施全面部署，确保学生具备这些职场竞争力。数据显示，70%的雇主宁愿聘用具备AI技能的新人，也不愿选择某个岗位有十年经验但不懂AI的求职者。

So all the recent data shows that workers who use AI in the workforce are incredibly more productive. It's particularly true in fields like professional services and financial students, but really any graduate who leaves institution today needs to know how to use AI in their daily life. That will come in both when they're applying for jobs as well as when they start their new job. And so one of the big reasons why institutions are now deploying AI as core infrastructure about across campus is they want to make sure their students leave with those workforce skills. The the data shows that seven in 10 employers would rather hire someone with AI skills over someone who had up to ten years of experience in a given function.

我深有体会。我的公司专门为部署AI的企业组建团队，我们最看重的就是候选人的AI实操能力——哪怕只系统学习过半年。至于LinkedIn资料或传统简历，反而不是重点考量。

I've seen that. I run a firm where I help put together teams to work with companies who are trying to deploy AI. The thing that we look for in people we work with is basically AI skills. Somebody who's been six months learning how to use this stuff. I don't really care what their LinkedIn or actually their curriculum looked like.

我只关心：你是否真正使用过？能否熟练运用？

I just want to know, have you been using it? Can you use it?

没错。我认为另一项即将成为核心素养的是编程能力。

Yeah. Look, I think the other sort of core literacy that's going to become important now is coding.

嗯。

Mhmm.

曾几何时，我们强调所有学生都要学编程，后来重点转向培养工程师。但随着可视化编程和各类辅助工具的出现，未来每个学生不仅应该掌握通用AI技能，更要学会用AI进行创作——生成图像、开发应用、编写代码。基础编程将成为与读写同等重要的核心素养。

You know, for a while, it was you know, there was a moment where we thought all students need to learn coding, and then I think there was a big focus on engineers. But now with Vibe coding and now that there are all sorts of tools that make coding easier, think I we're gonna get to a place where every student should not only learn how to use AI generally, but they should learn to use AI to create Mhmm. To create image, to create create applications, to to write code. And I think sort of basic coding is gonna become a core literacy. That's gonna be important as well.

确实。常有人质疑'既然AI能写代码，何必自己学？'这就像问'既然书上有字，何必学识字？'——可这个世界终究是靠这些基础技能运转的。

Yeah. I I get I hear people go like, why learn to code? Because they had codes for you. And it's like, like, why learn to read if books are full of text? I was like, like, The world still runs on these things.

我认为它非常有价值。我的一位同事主要从事金融工作，他一直在创建新计算器和构建相关小工具。而我为自己构建学习工具之类的东西。虽然我已经会编程，但这让一切变得更容易，理解代码的作用确实高效。非常高效。

And it and I think, yeah, it's a very valuable, you know, one of my colleagues, you know, he does a lot of financial stuff and he's creating new calculators and building the little tools for this all the time. I build stuff for myself for learning and whatever. And, you know, I already knew how to code, but it just makes it so much easier and knowing what the code does is effective. Effective.

完全同意。我认为随着编程变得更容易，理解代码、编写代码和调试代码的能力将成为关键指标。这种能力会变得越来越重要。

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm of the view that as coding becomes something that's easier, the ability to understand code, to create it and to bug it is gonna become a correlator. See, that's gonna become increasingly more important.

这是很好的建议。人们花越多时间尝试使用这些工具，尝试不同方法效果越好。我听说定期与他人交流特别有效，无论是在职场每周或每月聚会讨论，还是学生间分享所学。最近有些耸人听闻的标题说AI会导致教育领域的脑力退化。

I think that's great advice. I think just the more time people spend trying to use these tools, trying different things with these tools. And one of the things I've heard that works really well is just meeting on a regular basis with other people, whether it's at a workplace, you know, like have once a week or once a month to sit together and talk about stuff or students sharing what they've learned. So there's been some sort of sensational headlines talking about how AI can cause brain rot when it comes to education.

我理解你的担忧，这是我每天都会被问到的问题。AI本质上是工具，教育领域最重要的是如何使用这个工具。学习需要挣扎的过程，需要与信息互动。

Look, I hear you and it's one of these questions I get asked every day. AI is ultimately a tool. And what matters most in education space is how that tool is used. Learning takes struggle. It takes working with information.

需要消化吸收。如果学生把AI当作答题机，他们就学不到东西。这正是人们担心的。所以我们现在的使命就是帮助学生和教育者以拓展批判性思维和创造力的方式使用AI。你不需要看复杂研究就能判断某些AI使用方式是积极还是消极的。

It takes processing it. If students use AI as an answer machine, they're not gonna learn. And so I think that's what people are are worried about. And so part of our journey here is really to help students and educators use AI in ways that will expand critical thinking, that will expand creativity. And and it and you could you don't need to read complex studies to know that AI use in certain ways is positive or negative.

比如我女儿正在学长除法，这个过程需要一定程度的挣扎，有时还会哭鼻子。

I think of my daughter. Right? She's learning long division right now. It takes a certain amount of struggle. There are some tears involved.

如果我给她计算器说'别做除法题了，直接问AI'，她永远学不会长除。但未来当她学习高等数学时，我预计给她计算器反而能让她达到更高水平。

If I were to hand her a calculator and said, don't do the division problem. Just put it into into AI. You're gonna learn long division. She wouldn't. But at the same time, you know, down the road as she's learning advanced math, I anticipate I can give her that calculator and she'll be able to you do math at a higher level than she otherwise would.

AI使用同理。必须以提供反馈、个性化辅导、帮助多角度提问回答的方式来运用，这样才能推动学习进步。

AI uses is no different. It needs to be used in a way that drives feedback, that gives people personal tutoring, that helps you ask and answer questions in in different ways. That's how we're gonna advance learning.

是的。我读到最近有个上新闻的研究，仔细阅读后发现它指出：直接复制粘贴答案就学不到东西——这个结论简直显而易见。

Yeah. I read there was one study that just recently made the news. And I actually sat down and I read it. And it was saying if you copy paste answers, you don't learn, which was just like, wow.

就像如果我训练马拉松时你说'Leah，要不要用滑板车完成部分训练'，那我肯定无法增强体能。这和那个研究结论如出一辙。

It's like if I were training for a marathon and you said like, hey, Leah, can I give you a scooter? And for some of these training runs, you'd like take a scooter down the road. I wouldn't get into more shape. That was very similar to that site.

是的。我觉得令人沮丧的是，确实有些重要问题需要探讨。我们必须思考如何培养批判性思维能力并付诸实践。当我看到那些研究时——虽然我确信那些研究有其合理辩护——但有时它们只是在陈述显而易见的事实。我们真正需要思考的是如何实际运用这些工具？

Yeah. I think the frustrating thing is like, I think there really are important questions to be asked about this. I do think that critical thinking skills, we have to think about how we develop these and how we pursue that. I get a little frustrated that when I see, again, I'm sure there's a rule of good defense of that study, but I see studies like like this is, you're saying an obvious thing. The thing we need to think about is how do you actually use these tools?

如何提升你的批判性思维能力？我认为这将是个需要我们不断自问的开放式问题。

How can you improve your critical thinking skills? And I think that's going to be an open end question we're going have to keep asking ourselves.

听着，我们开发Study Mood（本质上是学生辅导体验）的部分原因，就是让学生无需学习如何通过特定方式提示模型来获得反馈、测验或推动学习。相反，这是一种你进入后由模型主动推动的模式

Look, part of the reason why we created Study Mood, which is essentially a tutoring experience for students, is so students wouldn't have to learn how to prompt the model in ways that would give feedback or quiz or drive learning. Instead, it would be a mode that you would enter where the model itself would push you

嗯。

Mhmm.

它会引导你找到答案，提供个性化指导和知识框架。我们正在ChatGPT上打造这样的体验，让学生无需掌握特定使用方式。我认为这正是你将看到学习边界被突破的地方。

And would guide you towards answers and personalize and give context and scaffold knowledge. So we're on this journey to create an experience in ChatGPT where a student doesn't have to know how to use it in certain ways. And I think that's where you're gonna really see, the boundaries of learning being events.

没错。让我兴奋的是，我听到家长们的一些轶事——在监督下让孩子与ChatGPT对话时，很快发现ChatGPT谈论青蛙有无限耐心。你永远无法耗尽它，它能永远聊青蛙。那个崭露头角的爬虫学家玛雅突然意识到，尽管父母不感兴趣，但她真的很喜欢讨论这个主题。

Yeah. And I'm I'm excited because I I'm hearing kind of anecdotal stories from parents where they'll, while supervised, but they'll let their kid start a conversation with the chat GPT and you quickly realize that chat GPT has infinite patience to talk about frogs. You can never exhaust it. It'll talk about frogs forever. And that budding herpetologist, Maya, all of a sudden, you know, realize that they really like talking about this even though their parents don't.

ChatGPT的神奇之处在于它的耐心。无限耐心。你提出的问题永远不会愚蠢，它总会回应。

One of the things that's magical about chatty PT is it is patient. Mhmm. Infinitely so. No question you ask ChatGPT is is ever stupid. It will always respond.

它总会给出诚实合理的答案。而学习的一半在于获得自信和启发。我们在Coursera常说的是：打造精彩课程和技术是一回事，但真正让孩子学习，需要让他们感受到'我能学会'

It will always give you an honest, reasonable answer. And two, you know, half of learning is about feeling confident, inspired to learn. Of the things we always said at Coursera is, you know, it's one thing to build amazing courses and amazing tech, but to really get a kid to learn, you need to have them feel like I can learn

嗯。

Mhmm.

并且'我想学习'。我认为AI在教育领域的重要作用，就是为人们提供建立信心的支架，让他们敢于深入探索。我来OpenAI的另一个原因与我女儿有关——她有阅读障碍。多年来我看着她的兄弟早晨下楼读报纸时，总会暗自思考：这个聪明的小女孩该如何真正接触这个世界？

And I want to learn. And I think a lot of what AI is doing in the education space is is giving people that scaffolding to have confidence that they can dive dive in and they and they can learn. So one of the reasons I came to OpenAI was actually also connected to my daughter. She is she's dyslexic. And for years, I would watch her brother come down in the morning and read the newspaper, and I would stick to myself and think, you know, how is this brilliant little girl gonna actually learn how to access the world?

怎么样

How is

她该如何了解时事呢？在我加入OpenAI前的那个夏天，我们推出了高级语音模式。

she gonna learn that about current events? In the summer before I joined OpenAI, we launched advanced voice mode.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我记得把手机递给她时说，佐伊，要不要试试和ChatGPT聊天？她说，嘿ChatGPT，我妈妈担心我因为不能像哥哥那样读报纸而无法了解时事。你能告诉我世界上发生了什么吗？最触动我的是ChatGPT回答说，当然可以佐伊，你对什么感兴趣呢？

And I remember handing her the phone, and I said, Zoe, why don't you try talking with ChatGPT? And she said, hey, ChatGPT. My mom is worried that I'm not gonna learn about current events because I can't read the newspaper like my brother. Can you tell me what's going on in the world? And what was so poignant is I remember Chatchippy responding and saying, you know, sure, Zoe, what are you interested in?

你今天想了解世界的哪些方面？之后他们聊起了她所有关于太空和机器人的兴趣。那一刻我意识到，ChatGPT将为这个女孩打开世界的大门，我再也不用那么担心了。

What do you wanna learn about in the world today? And from there, the conversation went went on and they were talking about all her interests in space and robots. And I realized in that moment that, you know, chatty bitty was gonna unlock the world for this girl, and I was not gonna have to be worried in the same way.

这很了不起。我很期待看到它如何帮助解决这类可及性问题。几年后我们的进展会很有趣。莉亚，非常感谢你的分享，这次对话非常有意思。

That's powerful. I'm excited to see how it helps with issues like that, accessibility issues. And I think that it's going to be interesting to see where we are a few years from now. Leah, thank you so much for talking with me. This has been very interesting.

我期待看到这些技术未来的发展。

I'm excited to see where these things go next.

太棒了。安德鲁，和你交谈很愉快。

Awesome. Great talking to you, Andrew.

我也想多了解你们两位。雅比，能说说你目前在学什么吗？

I'd also like to know a little bit more about you both too. So Yabi, could you tell me what you're studying right now?

好的。我刚刚在南加州大学完成传播学本科学位，接下来要进入南加大的商业分析硕士项目第一学期。

Yeah. So I actually just finished up my undergraduate degree in communication at USC, and then I'm gonna enter the first semester of my master's program in business analytics also at USC.

好的，很酷。那么你为什么想选择那个呢？

Okay, cool. So why did you wanna choose that?

最初，当我进入大学时，我并不太确定自己想学什么专业。所以我花了很多时间上通识教育课程来探索。通过这个过程，我觉得自己更喜欢研究和理论中的人文部分。我发现传播学是一个很好的专业，可以让我深入探索这个方向。然后在大学生涯中，我开始选修很多统计学课程。

Initially, when I came to college, I wasn't really sure kinda like the subject matter I wanted to study. So I took like a lot of time to take GE courses to kinda explore. And then through there, I think I I liked the more of the human component of like research and theory. And I found that communication was, a really good major to, like, kinda explore that through. And then throughout, like, you know, my college career, I started taking a lot of stat classes.

这些课程为我打下了分析思维的基础，我真的很想在这方面继续发展。所以我辅修了数据科学。当创造性和分析性这两个部分结合在一起时，我认为这引导我走向了商业分析领域。

And then, you know, gave me the basis for, like, analytical thinking, and I really wanted to kinda add that on. So I added a data science minor. And then kinda having that, like, creative and analytical component come together, I think it led me to business analytics.

这是一个非常有趣的组合。这种发展过程真的很酷。那么，阿拉布，告诉我们你在学什么吧。

So That's a it's a very interesting combination there. That's pretty cool the way that came about. So, Alab, tell us what you're studying.

好的。我在伯克利学习电气工程和计算机科学，即将升入大二。

Yeah. I'm studying electrical engineering and computer science at Berkeley. I'm a rising sophomore.

是什么让你进入这些领域的？

What brought you into those fields?

我想是因为在湾区长大，周围有很多科技元素。而且我是个动手能力很强的人，喜欢摆弄电路或编写代码，也喜欢为我发现的问题寻找解决方案。我发现我最喜欢的方式就是通过代码和硬件工程来实现，所以选择了这个结合两者的专业。

I think growing up, I grew up in the Bay Area, so I've been exposed to a lot of tech around me. And I'm also a really hands on guy. I like fidgeting with circuits or playing around with code, and I really like finding solutions to some issues that I see. And I found that one of my favorite ways to do that was through code and through hardware engineering. So I thought this would be a combination of the two.

你小时候喜欢搭建东西吗？

Did you like to build things when you were younger?

是的，当然。比如我造过一辆太阳能汽车。

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Like, I built like a solar power car.

哦，那是当然的。

Oh, of course.

是啊，就像一个小项目。后来我又建了个大的。

Yeah. Just like a small one. Then and then I built a big one later.

哦，对，很明显。

Oh, yeah, obviously.

没错。但真的，任何我能亲眼看到并具象化的东西都行。

Yeah. But yeah, just anything I could just like really see just in person and visualize.

看来你们俩都很有前瞻性。能说说你们第一次接触AI的重要时刻吗？任何类型的AI都行。

So you guys are both pretty forward thinking. Could you tell me what was kind of your first big moment with AI? Any kind of AI in general?

我记得高中三年级时，周围开始流传这种话题——你听说过ChatGPT吗？虽然AI之前就存在，比如我见过Osmo机器人，不知道...

I remember I was a junior in high school and this kind of buzz of, oh, do you know, have you heard of ChatGPT kind of started going around. And that was like, obviously AI had existed before. I had witnessed like the Osmo robot. I don't know

你听说过吗？哦，对。

if you've heard of Oh, yeah.

但真正让我能实际使用和交互的AI是ChatGPT。我们围在我电脑前，我刚注册了OpenAI账号。当时有个《杀死一只知更鸟》的论文作业，我就想如果它真无所不能，看看它怎么写——结果唰地就给我生成了一整篇论文。

But yeah, So humanoids, but but really, like, seeing, like, an AI that I could actually use and interact with was ChadGBT, and we're all huddling around my computer, and I just made an account with OpenAI. And I had an assignment on how to write my to kill a mockingbird essay. And I was like, if it can if it can really do anything, let's see how it writes. Right. And boom, it wrote me a full To Kill a Mockingbird essay.

虽然没用它交作业，但那个场景确实很酷，让我记忆犹新。

I did not use it, but it was definitely cool to see and just like a moment that I really remember.

嗯，我想多问几句这个。那你呢？

Yeah. I wanna ask you a little bit more about that. Yeah. So how about you?

说实话我的经历挺逗的，很多人最初是用它辅助学习。但我大二上学期第一次接触时，看到社交媒体说可以用ChatGPT写故事，我的第一个指令居然是让它写同人小说。给室友看时他们都觉得这蠢爆了。

I think for me, it was honestly funny because I think a lot of people started off with like an academic or like study use case for it. But then I think when I stumbled across from it, I remember I was like a sophomore, my first semester of sophomore year in college. And I saw like the social media posts about like how, you know, you can kind of use Chad GBT for like certain like, you know, write a story for me. And so I think my first prompt to it was to like write fan fiction, which is like really funny and like it was just like a random use case. I remember showing my roommates and they all thought it was pretty stupid, honestly.

所以我认为它最初只是很多日常琐碎的随机应用场景。后来当我开始上更多编程相关的课程时，才真正开始把它用于学术目的。但对我来说关键点是，你可以用它处理日常事务，而不仅仅是教育研究。

And so I think it was just like a lot of mundane random use cases. And and then I think it was like later on that I actually started using it, like, academically specifically when I started doing, like, more coding oriented classes. But I think that moment for me is the fact that you can use it for, like, day to day tasks and less so for, like, educational research.

这事我不能放过。你提到了同人小说，什么同人小说？

I can't let this drop. You mentioned fan fiction. What fan fiction?

先说明一下背景，我觉得小时候最...

So just to give context, I feel like when I was younger, was most

这里没有评判。你不必...

There's no judgment. You don't

解释背景。

have to context.

这里不存在任何评判。

There's no judgment there.

谢谢。感觉像在闲聊八卦。

Thank you. This feels like chatty bitty.

但别对他说...

But don't say that to

是啊。我明白你的意思。这很棒。

him. Yeah. I see what you're saying. That's great.

总之...我觉得存在很多稀奇古怪的同人小说类型。其中我觉得特别搞笑的是《怪物史莱克》同人小说圈。抱歉。

But so yeah. So I think there's, like, a lot of different kind of, like, outlandish, like, fan fictions, like, kinda going on. And I think one of the communities that I thought was, like, pretty funny was, like, the Shrek fan fiction community. Sorry.

抱歉，我以为是你说的是《怪物史莱克》同人小说社区。能再说一遍吗？

I'm sorry. I thought you said the Shrek fan fiction community. Could you say this again?

对，《怪物史莱克》同人小说社区。

Yes. The Shrek fan fiction community.

好吧，所以你确实说了这个。

Okay. So you did say that.

是啊。当时不知怎么的，这个题材就突然蹦到我脑子里成了最想尝试的梗。那时候还特别早期，生成效果也没现在这么好。

Yeah. And so I think I don't know why that was like the top of mind kind of trope that I wanted to prompt. And back then it was like super early. So it wasn't like the uploads weren't as good.

确实。

Right.

但我觉得这完全适合那些整天写同人的平台。

But I feel like this could definitely be on one of those platforms that they write fan fiction all the time.

有趣的是，同人小说的价值在于让粉丝参与创作。广告也能产出吸引人的内容，你分享给朋友时他们可能一脸懵。

It's interesting because part of the value of fan fiction is it's a way for fans to participate. And the ad can produce something that's cool that can kind of appeal to you and you showed your friends and they were like, what?

他们会觉得这很蠢。

They're like, this is stupid.

但对你而言却创造了独特时刻。我们常忽略这点——比如我热爱写作，写作过程本身就是享受。可人们总说'你在Open Air工作过，直接用ChatGPT不就行了'。

But for you, it created a neat moment. I think that's a lot of things we forget. Like, I write, and I love to write. Part of the writing experience for me, though, is the writing. And people like, oh, you worked at Open Air.

这就像叫人学电吉他，难道你要整天听电吉他音乐而不亲自弹吗？当然不。我学写作就是为了亲手创作。

You can just chat GPT. It's like that's like asking somebody to learn to play the electric guitar. Are you just gonna have, you know, play electric guitar music all the time instead of actually playing the guitar? Like, no. I I learned to write, to write, to do these things.

所以我觉得这一点经常被忽视。但在这里你可以提出，嘿，这种情况怎么办？而《怪物史莱克》的同人小说大概是我听过最甜美纯真的东西了。那么你觉得你的教授们适应得如何？

So I think that kinda gets overlooked. But that where you can say, hey, what about this scenario? And Shrek fan fiction is like the most sweet and innocent thing I think I possibly could have heard. So how would you say your professors have been adapting?

就实际作业而言，我的感受类似于小时候在小学阶段，从手工除法过渡到使用计算器处理更复杂任务的那种转变期。感觉现在正处于这种转型阶段，自动化任务明显减少了。比如在我的传播学课程中，那种死板定义术语的题目变少了，更多是问'如何应用这个术语'、'这个概念在更广语境中意味着什么'。所以我觉得现在更注重意义和意图性，而非基础理解。

I think in terms of like actual assignments work, I feel like the way I'm feeling about it is, like, similar to, like, how I felt when, like, when we were younger in, like, elementary school and we're transitioning between, like, doing, like, hand division to, like, using calculators to, like, take on, like, bigger tasks like you said. So I feel like it's, like, that kind of transitional period where it's, like, I think a lot of a lot less like like automation like, automated tasks. So like, I feel like in my communication courses, like, I'm seeing a lot less like like, as defined this like term kind of question and more about like, how do you apply this term? What does this mean in, like, a bigger context? So I feel like there's a lot more focus on, like, meaning and, like, intentionality as opposed to kind of more, like, basic understanding.

嗯。而且我发现很多考试形式其实比预想的更开放。正因如此，题目也转向更多能推导出深层含义的问题，而不是典型的'定义这个术语'。这就是我观察到的变化。

Mhmm. And I think, you know, a lot of test taking forms are actually like more open format than I thought they would be. And and because of that, the questions have also shifted to ask more of like, you know, questions that are like, you know, could be extrapolated to like bigger meanings as opposed to kind of like the typical, like, define this term. So I feel like that's how I've seen a change.

是的。我在计算机课程中也注意到，有些教授显然不希望我们用它来完成那些检查概念记忆的简单作业。但对于大项目，我们实际上有两个选择：使用AI或不使用AI。我觉得教授能接纳这个新概念并做出调整非常有意思。

Yeah. I've actually noticed that in in my CS classes, some professors obviously, they they want us to not use it for these, like, simple homework assignments that are just, check for check to see if you actually remember the concept. But for bigger projects, we actually got, two tracks we could take. One is with using AI and one is without using AI. And I thought it was really interesting that the professor is kind of, you know, greeting this this new concept and and adapting to it.

教授说选AI路径会得到更难的任务，要求更高，还需要撰写AI生成内容的反思报告以确保掌握相关概念。而不使用AI的话就是做传统项目，但用AI可以把项目推进得更深入。能自主选择这两种方式真的很棒。

The professor said with AI, we're gonna give you a bit of a harder assignment and we're gonna push you more, you're and gonna have to write a reflection on what AI gave you so that you also get the concepts that you would that AI would tell you. But with the non AI, you would kinda do a more traditional project, but with AI, you could, like, push it much further. So it was great to that the professor was allowing you to choose between the two.

你选了哪个？

Which did you choose?

我选了不用AI。不过确实很多人选了AI方案。

I chose non AI. Okay. But, yeah, I know a lot of people who did choose AI.

为什么选择不用AI？

Why did you choose non AI?

因为我对项目涉及的概念已经有足够的技术把握。

I think that for me, I the most like technically sound with the concept that the project was about.

而且

And

我记得自己曾有几个想在这种迷你游戏中实现的功能。但有了AI后，感觉就像你可以让它头脑风暴帮你获取功能点子，然后用AI实现这些。不过我从一开始就清楚自己想要做什么。

I remember that I had a few features that I myself wanted to implement in this in this kind of mini game. But with AI, it was like, you can ask it to brainstorm and help you get features and you can implement those with AI. But I kind of knew what I I wanted to do from the get go.

嗯。

Mhmm.

由于我已经有了自己的想法，虽然我经常用AI来头脑风暴，但既然已有主意，我就想不如专注实现自己已经构思好的那些点子

And because I already had my ideas, I use AI a lot for brainstorming, but because I already had my ideas, I was like, oh, I might as well just really just, like, focus on implementing the ideas that I had already come

这个问题经常出现，因为有些教授希望学生掌握基础知识——这很重要，比如学Python就必须真正掌握Python。我认为这对未来几十年都有帮助，我们需要理解这些技术原理的人才。但我见过有些课程甚至不教学生用AI生成代码，这在我看来简直是教学失职。当然这只是我的个人观点。我喜欢不同课程各有侧重的理念，如果要用AI，那就要应对更大的挑战。

up with. That's a It's a thing that comes up a lot because I think some professors, they want the students to learn the fundamentals, which is important because if you learn Python, you really need to learn Python. I think it's gonna be helpful for Even for decades to come, we need to have people who understand how these things work. But I've seen some programs where they're not even teaching them how to use AI for like code generation, which to me sounds like malpractice, you know, which again, just that's my take on that. But I think that I like the idea that there's different courses and the idea that if you're going to use AI, then great, you have to do bigger challenges.

常有人问我：如果学生用ChatGPT怎么办？我说那就让他们做更宏大的项目——以前可能只做读书报告，现在何不制作音乐视频？就是要做更大规模、更深入的内容。

And I've had people ask me about this. What do we do if people use ChatGPT? I'm like, have students do bigger projects, you know, where they would have done a book report before. How about making music video? You know, just make bigger things and do more.

人们面对将改变工作方式的新事物时产生担忧很正常，试图预判结果也能理解。批判性思维确实重要，而这项技术正在适应这点——毕竟如果只是复制粘贴就学不到东西。OpenAI正在推出的「学习模式」就是个很有趣的尝试。

I think there are valid concerns when people are looking at something that's gonna change the way that we work and trying to figure out the outcome. And so I understand some of the hesitation there. And I do think that critical thinking skills are important. And I think this technology is trying to adapt to that because it's just another thing that people copy paste from, they're like, yeah, you're not going to learn. So OpenAI is rolling out a new feature, Study the Chat GPT, which seems to be kind of very interesting approach with that.

你们试过这个功能吗？觉得怎么样？

Have you guys tried this? Yep. How would you describe it?

我认为学习模式很有挑战性，它迫使用户真正用任何内容来考验自己。我试用时让它教我AI知识，普通聊天模式只会列出一堆「AI是这个，学习分几种」之类的答案。

I would say that study mode is is a it's challenging, and it it forces forces the user to actually challenge themselves with any sort of content. So I myself, when I tried it, I I asked it to teach me about AI. Mhmm. And I also tried this with the regular chat mode, and it just gave me a big list of, oh, AI is this. There's this type of learning, this type of learning.

但在学习模式下，它甚至不直接回答，而是反问我三个问题来明确需求：你想专攻哪个具体领域？现有知识水平？当前学习场景？最后锁定「微调」这个主题后，它才逐步拆解讲解。

And when I asked study mode, it actually just didn't even answer my question and gave me three questions to understand what I really wanted. And it said, do you have a specific topic that you really want to get into? How much do you know about this? What are you doing right now? And I got it to a specific topic, which is fine tuning, and it really broke it down one by one.

学习模式最棒的是不会假设你已掌握就跳过。可能几分钟后会突然问「来做个小测验，还记得这个吗？」这种及时回顾正是大脑建立神经连接、巩固记忆的关键。如果你想透彻理解并应用某个概念，这个模式做得非常出色。

And I think the biggest thing about study mode is that it doesn't just assume that you remember it and move on. Maybe after a few minutes, it'll go back and say, oh, here's a little mental check, a little sanity check. Do you remember this? And you'll have to answer that again because in our brains, that's what's really forming those connections, our neural connections, and actually helping us remember these concepts. And I think that study mode does a really great job if you really wanna learn a concept and apply that concept and and understand it to its fullest potential.

那就是当你不想仅仅得到一个问答时使用它的场景。

That's when you would use it when you don't want just a question answer.

是的。我还做过类似的学习模式与常规模式的并行比较。我觉得大家

Yeah. I've also kinda done, like, a similar, like, side by side comparison with study mode versus, like, the regular mode. I think guys

都非常善于分析。我超爱你做的这些AB测试。没错。我试玩时就想，哇这个真的很酷。

are very analytical. I love this that you did these AB tests on this. Yeah. Exactly. I played them like, oh, this is pretty cool.

我记得当时在研究一个非常小众的话题——关于电子舞曲和锐舞文化在加州的历史。我觉得这是个超有趣的研究方向，想看看ChatGPT会给出什么答案。其实我在用ChatGPT做研究时，心里始终清楚它是个更适合研究的LLM，除非你设定好参数。所以我通常的做法是：先通过Google找到研究论文等资料，然后把内容粘贴进聊天框，要求它仅基于这些参数回答，这样能保持答案的针对性而非泛泛而谈。在研究加州锐舞文化时，我发现常规模式下输入上下文后确实能产出不错的结果。

And I think, like, when I so I was I think I was, like, trying to I was doing, like, a research on a very, like, niche topic kind of about, like, EDM and rave culture and it's, like, history in, California. And I was like, I feel like that's, like, a really interesting topic to kinda do research on and see what, like, you know, ChadGBT has to say about it. And I remember well, I guess my usage of, like, kinda ChadGBT for, like, research is I feel like I always, in the back of my mind acknowledging that it's like an LLM, very, like, suited for like research unless you kind of have good parameters around it. So usually the way I approach it is that I go through my sources that I find like through Google, like research papers, I actually paste that into the chat and ask it to only draw from those parameters because I wanna keep it like more contained and less, like, general. And so I feel like when I was doing that research into, like, kinda looking into, like, rape culture in California, I found that, like, when I used the regular mode and put in the context, it did produce a good output.

但学习模式甚至不需要那些上下文，因为它会自动限定在对话范围内。我感觉那里的学习过程更严谨，因为是通过问答形式推进，而不是像常规模式那样直接喂给你大段内容信息。所以我认为这是种非常高效的学习方法。

But with steady mode, I didn't even really need to use that context because it narrowed the parameters to that back and forth chat. And I feel like my learning was more kind of rigorous through there because it's like we're answering questions instead of being like fed kind of like long pieces of content information that the regular mode gave. So I thought that was like a really effective kind of learning method.

这让你对未来更有信心了吗？比如在寻找职业方向和适应未来变化这方面？

Has this given you more confidence about the future as far as you're finding a role and being able to adapt to whatever's gonna come next or not?

当然。我认为OpenAI的产出有两面性：代理模式代表着超级未来感的场景，可能会取代某些实习任务；而学习模式则回归本质，专注于学校里的每个知识点。对我来说，学习模式是ChatGPT最重要的模式之一，因为它真的能帮助你学习。

Definitely. I think there's two sides to what OpenAI is producing. I think with this agent mode, is that super futuristic look where you think, oh, maybe some certain tasks that I used to be doing for my internship, they won't even want me to do. But then with study mode, it's really like drawing it back and thinking about like each concept that you're learning in school. And so to me, I think study mode is one of the most important modes in ChatGPT because it'll actually help you learn.

而我觉得很多人使用AI时，只是想要个现成答案。

Whereas I think people are, when they're trying to use AI, they're trying to just get the answer.

没错。作为一个终身学习者，每次有这类新工具出现我都特别兴奋，可以持续探索它的发展方向。我经常用Chattypedia，在这里坦白一下。

Yeah. So, yeah. I'm excited as a lifelong learner, is every time we have a new tool like this to continuously play with it and then see where this is heading. I use Chattypedia all the time. I'm gonna admit that here.

我不怎么花时间在社交媒体上，除了看新闻从来不是重度用户。你的体验如何？比如你平常一天怎么度过？还有你使用社交媒体和ChatGPT的时间比例大概是多少？

I don't spend a lot of time on social media, but I was never really a big social media person other than like for news. What has been your experience? Do you spend, like how was like, what's a normal day for you? And then also like, let's say how much social media are you using versus ChatGPT?

对我来说，大约一年前，我决定减少社交媒体的使用，尤其是TikTok。因为我觉得自己在一个地方以易于消化的方式获取了大量内容，这确实是它的便利之处。但我开始过于依赖这种便利，被动地消费内容而没有真正去研究或核实事实。感觉这样并不好。

For me, I think, so I actually, not recently, about like a year ago, kind of decided to take a step back from social media usage, just particularly like TikTok. Just because I feel like I was just like getting a lot of content in one place in like a like a digestible manner, which is like what the convenience of it is. But I feel like I started getting too used to that convenience and like like I feel like I was just like kind of passively consuming content without really like researching or fact fact checking it as much. I feel like it wasn't really That's the

这正是TikTok的初衷。

whole point of TikTok.

是的，但我觉得它让我变得过于安逸。我不喜欢这样，所以决定退出。因此，我现在减少了视频形式内容的使用。

Yeah, that's the whole point. But like, I feel like I was like it was making me pretty complacent, I think. Yeah. And I didn't like that, so I decided to go off it. So in that sense, I think less of usage with like video form content.

不过我还是会用社交媒体与同龄人交流，比如用Instagram分享照片等。但ChatGPT在我的生活中变得更重要了，因为目前作为学生，我80%的生活是学习，即使在夏天，80%也是工作。所以无论是学习还是日常活动，我发现自己使用ChatGPT比社交媒体多得多。

But I do like use social media to like communicate with my peers and, you know, I guess Instagram for like photos and stuff like that. But I think Chad GBT has become more salient in my life like because I feel like right now as a student, like like 80 of my life is like school. And then I guess even the summer, like, another 80% of my life is like work. So I feel like I definitely use it whether it's like in terms of that or even like day to day, like, activities. I feel like much more using chattybt than I am social media.

但是

But

是的。我认为一个重要的问题是，社交媒体现在试图成为一站式解决所有需求的平台。人们现在在社交媒体上购物、获取新闻、查看朋友的动态。

yeah. I think, a big thing is that, like, social media is now trying to be that kinda, like, a one stop shop for kind of everything. Right? Like, people will now shop on social media. People will now find their news on social media, see what their friends are doing.

就像你刚才说的，Yabby，社交媒体让你开始接触到各种内容。有些人可能觉得这是好事。但对我而言，当我意识到自己在社交媒体上无意识地滑动几个小时，既看到新闻内容又学到东西时，我实际上对花费的时间并不自觉。

And I think similar to what you were saying, Yabby, about, like, how social media you you kinda started getting a little bit of everything. You know, some people can find that as a good thing. But for me, when I used to go on social media, I realized that I was just scrolling for hours because I realized that I was like, oh, like, I'm getting some news content. I'm learning about some things here. And so I was less actual actually conscious about the time I was spending on social media.

我意识到很多时间花在了我并不想要的内容上。因此，我减少了日常社交媒体的使用。在学习和探索想法时，我会问ChatGPT很多问题，因为我能明确自己想要什么。而社交媒体，我有意识地用作休闲时间放松和享受内容。

And I realized that a lot of that time is just a lot of content that I don't want as well. Mhmm. And so I've realized that that, you know, from my day to day, I I've drawn back on my social media usage. When it comes to learning and exploring ideas, I ask ChatGBT a lot of those questions because I'm very specific about what I want and what I can get out of ChatGBT. And social media, I use consciously as my leisure time to just relax and just enjoy some content.

我不喜欢把所有东西都混在一个应用里。

Whereas, I don't like to kind of mix everything into one app.

对我来说，有一个转折点是在深度研究时，发现获取的内容质量往往优于网上找到的。我可以提出非常有趣的问题，比如关于一群鳄鱼屠杀人类的故事——其实是二战时期的真实事件，我会问：这件事的真相是什么？

For me, there was this moment, and it really happened with deep research, where the quality of things I was getting was often better than what I found online. And I found it like I could ask a really interesting question. It could be something silly about like, you know, a bunch of crocodiles massacring people or something. Like, I mean, it was a World War II story. I'm like, what's the truth about this?

然后你得到一份深度研究报告回来。嗯，其实有些夸大其词了。但翻阅这些东西挺有趣的，可以自问：我希望有哪些问题能有相关文章？你有没有也发现，突然间内容质量就提升了？

And you get a deep research report and comes back. Well, it was overblown. But that was fun to sort of look through these things and say, okay, what are questions I want that I wish there were articles on that? And did you find that too, that all of a sudden content got better?

我记得高中时ChatGPT刚推出，我正好在上研究课，主要就是自选课题研究并写论文。早期ChatGPT还不能联网。嗯。所以我粘贴链接时它会说‘哦，我无法阅读这个’。嗯。

I remember, so in high school when ChadGBT first came out, I was in like a research class where I basically just researched on a topic that I wanted to and wrote a paper about it. And early on, ChatGPT couldn't access the web. Mhmm. So I'd paste in a link and it'd be like, oh, I can't read that. Mhmm.

于是我发现，我会粘贴整篇论文进去尝试这样获取信息。但它不擅长为我查找内容，所以我得自己来。不过深度研究时，它能帮我精准找到所需内容。我通常要求它只搜索有学术价值的研究，并为我构建论点。这些内容本身质量很高，我经常引用。

And so I found that, like, I would, like, paste, like, a big paper in and and try to give it that way. But it wasn't good at finding content for me, so I really had to do that myself. But deep research, it could allow me to actually find content specific to what I want. And what I usually do is I tell it to only only search for really academic merit backed research and formulate an argument for me. And the content itself is actually very good and I cite it pretty often.

那么Abhi，你有什么特别的技巧或方法让它按照你的需求运作吗？

So for you, Abhi, do you have any particular tricks you use or things you do to try to get it to sort of perform the way you want it to?

我觉得首先是通过限定研究范围有帮助，比如提供我希望它参考的特定来源。另外我有时会要求它扮演批判者角色，因为虽然我喜欢收到的反馈——比如我在头脑风暴研究论文时，构思论文陈述和论点框架——

I think, yeah. First and foremost, kinda like narrowing the research parameters, I think is helpful by feeding it kind of the sources that I want it to kinda generate from. And then I think for me, I also prompted to be a critical actor sometimes because I think, like, as much as I like kind of the feedback I receive, especially say so say if I'm, like, trying to brainstorm, like, a research paper. Right? And I'm like formulating like my kind of thesis like statement and having like my set points.

大部分反馈都过于正面。是的，这是第一反应。虽然这没问题，但有时我需要真正批判性的视角。所以让它扮演特定角色很有帮助，这样得到的回应才能写出更全面的论文。

And I think the feedback I get for the most part is like overwhelmingly positive. Yeah. And that's like the first, I mean, reaction to it. And I think that's that's valid, but sometimes I want an actual critical like outlook. So I think prompting it to kind of embody certain personas is really helpful and like the response that it gives to actually make a like a holistic like paper.

再结合教授的指导填补某些空白，这样至少写论文时能获得更全面的视角。

And then I think coupling that like with, you know, like having a professor's help and kind of also filling certain gaps, I think helps like have a holistic kind of overview, at least when I'm writing papers.

能具体举例说明你是如何设定角色指令的吗？

So give us some example of how you prompt when you talk about like different personas, what you ask it to do specifically.

比如之前研究阴谋论时，我觉得这个课题很有趣，因为相关信息太多了。第一步当然是缩小范围，然后我构建相关论点框架。我让它用我学到的概念编造一个阴谋论——

So for example, I think a while back I was doing some research on conspiracy theories. And I think it was interesting research because I feel like there's a lot of information out there. And so I think first step, definitely narrowing those parameters. And then I think I was creating kind of the arguments that, like, followed under there. And I asked it I asked it to actually make up a conspiracy theory using kind of the concepts that I've been learning.

于是它真的编了个阴谋论出来。

And so it made up a conspiracy theory.

那个理论是什么？

What was the theory?

我想那是个关于机场镜子的理论之类的。

I think it was some theory about, like, airport mirrors.

继续。

Go on.

我忘了具体参数是什么，但大概是说机场镜子如何监控你的活动，以及你该如何小心。不过它显然用非常优雅的方式表述，因为它利用这类研究来说明人们为何会相信它。于是我要求它扮演不同角色，比如政治光谱上的各种立场。然后问它，这个人会如何反应？这个人会如何批评它？

And I forgot what the exact parameters were, but it was something about how, like, airport mirrors are, like, monitoring, like, your activity and how, like, you should be careful. But it obviously worded it in very elegant way because it was using kind of that research to kinda, like, say, okay, this is why people believe in it. And so I asked it to take up like certain personas across like, for example, the political scale Uh-huh. And ask it like, you know, how would this person react to it? How would this person critique it?

这个人会如何相信它？我觉得它给了我一个概览，既帮助我学习，也帮我构建论点，确保我是通过批判性视角或其他视角思考，而不只是基于我对那个阴谋论的看法。

How would this person believe in it? And I think it gave me like, kinda like an overview like for my learning, but also like for argument forming, making sure that I'm thinking it from like this critical lens or this lens and not just through like what I think about that conspiracy theory.

这确实很棒。我认为这是人们可以更多尝试的低调做法之一——不仅仅是提供单一观点，而是真正展示多种不同视角。早在GPT-3时代，我就觉得它能模拟不同立场的对话非常酷。阅读这些对话记录很有趣，因为你能看出模型非常擅长适应这种多角度表达。

That's really good. I think that that's one of the really low key things I think people could probably do more of is not just say, give it one point of view, but actually tell like, yeah, give me a couple of different points of view. And that was back with GPD three. That was what I thought was really cool, I could simulate a conversation from different points of view. And it was reading those transcripts was interesting because you could see the model's pretty good at adapting to that.

我特别喜欢拿研究论文让它提供对立观点，要求它给出正反两面的分析。作为工具而言这很有帮助。你在使用角色设定或提问方式方面有什么特别的心得吗？

And I love taking research papers and saying, give me the counterpoint. Give me this to that. And I think as that kind of tool, that's helpful. Do you have any particular kind of tips you use for any kind of personas or any just some questions you ask?

没错。我完全同意，它对你非常宽容，总会说'哦，你在这方面做得很好'。我发现可以在聊天中设置特定指令，比如进入个性化GPT设置...

Yeah. Definitely. I I agree with, like, the it's very, like, lenient with you, and it'll be like, oh, like, you've done a great job on this. And I found that there you can you can put a specific instructions for your chat. So if you go to, like, personalized gbt Mhmm.

你可以设置具体指令。比如我会写'不要废话，直击重点，对我保持绝对诚实'，无论是提问还是提交内容时。关于角色设定，比起简单问'你怎么看'，让它以特定专业身份回应效果更好——比如要求它'作为顶级公司的顾问来指导'，或者'扮演研究该领域的创意教授提出独特解决方案'。

You can put specific instructions. So I say, like, no fluff, like, just get to the point, be brutally honest with me, whenever I ask you a question or whenever I submit what I have. And to the persona thing as well, like, I think it's it's a great thing to to get different perspectives versus just tell it, oh, what do you think? Because then it'll be, oh, like, more like, I'll take your side and your perspective on it. So I've I've told it to, act as like a consultant at a top firm and tell me how you do this, or I told it to act as like a super creative professor that researches on this and come up with unique solutions to this.

我发现让ChatGPT代入专业角色或特定视角，确实能显著提升它的表现水平。

So I think really putting putting ChatGPT into, like, a persona or perspective and a professional will, like, empower it to actually do better is what I've noticed.

我认为你们两位都是非常投入的学生。你们对此有很多思考。你们听到过哪些误解？比如，我和一些在教育领域谈论ChatGPT的人交流时，人们会说‘啊，作弊之类的事情’。

You two are both, I think, probably very well engaged students. You you you have a lot of thought about this. What are some misconceptions you hear? Like, I talk to people who bring a chat GPT in education. People go, ah, cheating and this sort of stuff.

这方面确实需要讨论。但有时我会听到一种假设，认为每个孩子都会自动用这个来作弊。你们遇到过这种情况吗？在你们的经历中，有这种感觉吗？

And, there's a conversation to be had for there. But I think sometimes I hear this assumption that every kid's just automatically going to use this to cheat. Have you encountered that? Do you feel like, you know, was that a in your experience?

这是个很好的问题，涉及很多思考。但当我更多思考原创性以及人们如何希望看到你真实原创的作品——因为这有助于学习——这确实没错。但随着AI发展，或许现在已经如此，未来会更明显：AI生成的作品将远超人类水平，到那时我们为何要贬低AI的产出？我认为很快我们会看到ChatGPT在撰写报告等方面产生更大影响，但教师和学生也需要适应如何在使用AI的同时展现自身成长，因为AI能完成许多人类无法胜任的优秀任务。

It is a great question and there's a lot of thought that goes into it. But the more I think about kind of originality and how people want like your own authentic original work, because like that'll help with your learning. That's definitely true. But then we're going to get to a point with AI, maybe we already have, but it'll keep going down the line where actually like AI produced work is going to be like much, much better than humans to the point where why are we just like dismissing what an AI can produce? And I think soon we'll get to the point where we'll have ChatGPT, it'll have a much bigger impact in writing some report, But then teachers will and students will also have to adapt to how they can show their growth while also using AI to its fullest because it can complete so many great tasks that humans can't.

我觉得这个问题很难回答，因为我们正在重新定义...

I think it's just hard to answer that question because I feel like we're redefining

不，他刚才说这是个很好的问题。他说这是个好问题。不。是的。

No. He just said it was a great question. He just said it was a good question. No. Yeah.

你继续。请说。

You go ahead. Go ahead.

我刚才想说，我觉得这很难，因为我们似乎在重新定义作弊的含义。所以我甚至不知道作弊现在意味着什么了，这就是为什么这个问题有点难回答。

I was just saying, I think it's just it's it's hard because I feel like we're like kind of redefining what like cheating means. So I feel like I don't even know what cheating means anymore. So I feel like that's why it's like kinda hard.

是的。这是个合理的问题和回应。对于高中生使用这些工具，你们现在会给出什么建议？

Yeah. No, it's a fair question and a fair response. What advice would you give to high school students right now about using these tools?

我不确定。但我和很多朋友讨论过——甚至在我来这里之前，我和大学朋友们住在一起时，我们就在谈论他们使用聊天AI的经历。有个朋友说：‘如果高中时就有ChatGPT，我可能不会达到现在的成就。’我问她什么意思，她说‘我觉得自己会变笨’——这是她的原话。

I don't know. Something that I think I've Like a lot of my friends were talking about, even like before I came here, I was staying with my friends from college and we were just, like, talking about I was asking their experiences about, like, chat and AI. And one of my friends was like, I feel like if I had chat GBT in high school, I wouldn't be where I am today. And I asked her, like, oh, what do you mean by that? And she said, I feel like I would just be stupid or I feel like that's just the best way she put it.

我思考了这个问题，某种程度上能理解她的观点。但就AI发展——至少是AI使用方式而言，我感觉我们正目睹一种转变（根据我的观察），从将其作为作弊工具或走捷径的手段，转向其他用途。

And so I thought about that and I I feel like I can somewhat see that point. But I think the way that like AI is developing, at least AI usage, I feel like we're noticing kind of like a shift, at least, you know, anecdotally from what I see, a shift away from kind of using it as like a cheat use case or, you know, a use case to like, you know, take the easier path.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但更重要的是提升你的生产力和学习能力。从这个角度看，我想给出的建议是要有一种内在动力。虽然这建议听起来很难，但我觉得只要你有学习的动力，就真的可以利用ChadGBT来帮助你，但不要同时把它当作拐杖。我认为你需要自我约束，不要用它来直接获取答案，而是用它来帮助你更好地理解事物。

But more so to just like improve like your productivity and like learning. And I think like through that lens, think that advice like I would give is to kind of like, you know, have like an intrinsic motivation. I mean, that's hard advice, but I feel like, you know, you just have like that motivation to learn. I think you can really use ChadGBT to kinda help you, but don't use it as a crutch at the same time. I think you just have to hold yourself accountable and kinda not using it to get the answer and more so to help you kinda understand things better.

但我觉得在高中阶段这很难做到。

But I think that's that's hard when you're in high school.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我认为它能让你过滤掉干扰，专注于你真正喜欢的事情，而不是那些被分配给你的任务。

But I think it allows you to kinda cut through the noise and do things that you actually enjoy versus things that are kinda, like, assigned to you, I guess.

是的，绝对是这样。我想对现在的高中生说，要警惕。在我自己的经历中，我高中时开始接触它，确实看到了它带来的危险——容易让人自满，习惯依赖它完成所有事情。但当你真正面临考试或挑战所学时，你会发现自己的知识储备不足。

Yeah. Definitely. I'd say for high school students right now, I'd say be wary. I've noticed that throughout my time, I mean, I started learning about it in high school and I definitely saw the dangers of it with complacency and getting used to it, doing all the things. And then when you actually get to the test and when you actually get to challenge what you've learned, you have less of that knowledge.

但最近几个月，我真正把ChatGPT推向了极限，也把自己推向了极限，我发现自己能完成的事情比过去多得多。记得高中时我在做一个图像分类项目，花了很多时间阅读大量文档才真正学会怎么做。但现在你可以利用AI更快地完成，并不断改进迭代，做出更好的成果。我鼓励高中生找到自己的热情所在，深入挖掘，充分利用AI。

But I've noticed that, these past few months, I've really kind of pushed ChatGPT to its limits and pushed myself to my limits, and I've noticed that I can accomplish a lot more than I used to. I remember in high school, was I was working on some project. It was an image classifier project, and it took me a long time, lot of documents to to actually learn and understand how to do this. But now you can you can utilize AI and actually get this done much faster and improve on it and produce it and continue and iterate on it to make a much better product. And I would encourage high schoolers to find a passion and really dive into that and get the most out of it.

但同时也要保持警惕，坚持老师教授的概念，不要仅仅因为AI能为你做就自动忽略它们。

But at the same time, be wary and stick to the concepts that teachers are teaching you and don't just automatically dismiss it because AI can do it for you.

你希望现在的老师如何教学？

How would you like teachers to be teaching now?

我认为——这可能是个大胆的观点——但最终我们会进入一个教育和讲座完全由AI完成的阶段。我们消费的所有内容都将由AI提供，因为我注意到每个学生的学习方式不同。一旦AI发展到能提供多模态系统，可以可视化内容并生成自制YouTube视频，学生的学习效果会更好。那时老师将更专注于社交技能、社会资本部分、 mentorship以及如何利用AI，因为我觉得大家也在担心就业问题。

I think, and this is a bold take, but I think that eventually we're going to get to a point where education and the lectures are fully done by AI. I think all the content that we're consuming ourselves will be given by AI because I've noticed anecdotally that each student learns differently. And once AI gets to a point where there's a multimodal system where you can visualize things and it'll provide you like YouTube videos that it creates itself. We're going get to a point where students learn better through AI. And I think teachers will then be focused more on like the social social skills, social capital part of it and mentorship and how to use AI because I think everyone's worried about jobs as well.

但适应能力正成为学生和即将进入就业市场的新人新的职业保障。

But adaptation is the new job security for students and for up and coming people that are trying to enter the job market.

这让我有些疑惑。我认为AI作为伴侣、导师等角色大有可为，它能提供大量材料并某种程度上取代教科书。但你提到了‘导师制’这个词。就我个人而言，我觉得能向真正从事过电气工程工作的电气工程师请教，或是向有实际计算机科学工作经验的老师学习，这种价值无法估量。那么你是否认为未来的趋势是AI成为非常优秀的助教？

That's where I kind of wonder those. I think that AI has this great place as a companion, as tutor and whatnot, a lot of material and kind of replace the textbook. But you brought up the word mentorship. I just see, personally speaking, I think there's so much value to me be able to go to an electrical engineer that actually had an electrical engineering job, you know, or a computer science teacher who actually has done the work of it too. And so do you see that kind of as sort of the future is the idea is that the AI is the really good TA.

它可以当教科书，处理这类事务。但你是否仍希望将人类置于核心位置？

It's the textbook. It's doing this sort of stuff. But then you want to still peep keep humans in the center?

我想在教学和学习方面，显然是谁教你会影响你学什么以及日后如何应用。比如生物学里的有丝分裂概念，虽然内容相同，但不同的教授者会真正改变你的理解。所以我认为这正是人类在教学中的重要性所在，也是其不可替代的原因。我设想未来可能是这两种方式的混合——我们可以从AI那里获得标准化内容，因为它便捷、易获取且实用。

I guess, like, in terms of, like, teaching and learning, I feel like obviously who teaches you impacts what you learn and how you, like, apply it on later on in life. And, like, I feel like you can, you know, learn the same concept in biology, like mitosis. It's the same concept, but, like, who teaches you, like, kinda really changes that, you know? So I think that's where the human aspect of, like, learning really comes in and it it's what makes it important. And I think that human connection so I think it's it's somewhat like of I think I envision, like, somewhat of, like, a hybrid kind of those two things where I think we can get a standard from AI because it's helpful, because it's easy, because it's, like, you know, accessible.

而导师制的元素则体现在实践应用层面，尤其是伦理思考方面。或许我们会逐渐从单纯学习‘怎么做’转向思考‘这如何影响人们’、‘如何通过这些技术帮助他人’。这种认知转变正是人性化指导和导师制发挥作用的地方。因此我认为这种混合模式是我所设想的未来方向，也是可能取得巨大成功的模式。

And then kind of that mentorship element comes in with the touch and, like, how you apply it and especially how you think about it in terms of ethics. I think maybe we'll we'll start shifting away from just, learning how to do, do, do, and thinking about, like, how does this impact people? You know, how can we help others through these technologies? And I think that shift in understanding is where the human touch and mentorship will also come in. So I think, you know, having that hybrid model is, you know, something that I envision for the future and that's something that could be really successful.

你认为AI未来会如何发展？

Where do you see the future headed with AI?

毫无疑问会像所有技术那样简化大量任务。虽然很多人可能在担忧或思考AI的意识问题，但我认为短期内AI不会产生意识。不过未来某些公司已经开发出可部署的AI软件工程师代理，最终将会出现能协调软件工程师、营销人员、设计师等多角色的单一代理，这才是未来的发展方向。

Definitely just like how any technology works, like simplifying a lot of tasks, obviously. And I think lot of people maybe are worried about or are thinking about consciousness in AI. And I don't think that AI will generate consciousness for a long time. But I think that in the future, deploying certain companies have already developed deployable software engineers an AI agent, but deploying one agent that'll orchestrate a software engineer, a marketer, a designer, so many things. I think that's where the future is going.

人类在其中必须保持参与闭环，完全放任AI是危险的，在可预见的未来也不可行。

Where humans stand in that, definitely they'll need to stay in the loop. I think just letting AI go is dangerous and isn't feasible for the upcoming future.

你认为十年后你的工作会变成什么样？

What do you think your job is gonna look like ten years from now?

我觉得会是个混合体。因为我的工作性质偏对外和人际接触，目前创意领域对AI使用的争议在于——人们不想阅读ChatGPT生成的内容，还有对破折号、逗号等格式使用的诸多批评。

I think it'll it'll be it'll be a mixed bag, I think. Mhmm. Because I think because my job is pretty like kinda external facing, people facing, I think right now kind of the tension or the trif I see with, like, AI usage and, like, creative fields is like, oh, like, I don't want to read something made by, like, ChatGPT or, you know and then there's, like, a lot of critique on, like, the usage of Em dashes, like, the comma.

我我想要的只是阅读经过深度研究的内容。我现在总是用破折号就是为了惹人烦。

I I want I only want to read things by by deep research too. I use Em dashes all the time now just to annoy people.

是啊。所以，就像，嗯，有很多关于人们不愿意读AI生成内容的批评。我在社交媒体上看到这些，在更小众的社区比如Substack也看到。我感觉我至少读过15篇Substack文章，都在抨击破折号的用法。

Yeah. And so, like, yeah, there's like a lot of, like, kind of critique about people, like, not wanting to read content that's like AI generated. And like, I see that on social media. I see that in, like, more niche communities like Substack. I feel like I've read, like, at least 15 Substack articles, like, kind of bashing the uses of, like, Emdash.

就像是

It's like

对。这些反应很有趣。但对我来说，我现在更看重自传性质的内容。如果有人写的是那种谁都能写的泛泛之谈，我就不太感兴趣。但如果有人说'这是我的亲身经历'，那对我个人来说价值就大得多。

Yeah. It's there is reactions that are interesting. But, like, to me, it puts I put more value now on autobiographical stuff. If if somebody's writing the generic thing that anything could rate you know, could anything could create, then I don't really care as much. But if somebody's like, here's my experience doing this, that has way more value to me personally.

这其实更像是，我觉得未来至少在营销领域，可能要驾驭这种张力，看看受众更接受什么。也许五年后AI生成内容会成为常态并被接受。我们这些营销人员可能就是在创意输入和AI输出之间做平衡。但我觉得这还需要很多年。

It's just really about like, I think in the future, at least in like marketing, it's like probably just navigating that tension and seeing like what audiences like kind of resonate to. So maybe who knows in like five years, I feel like AI generated content might be like the norm and like acceptable. And like us as like marketers are kind of like pushing in that creative input and for that like, you know, AI generated output. But I feel like that's still long years ahead, but.

你最大的恐惧是什么？我先说我的。我认为这些技术非常了不起，每个人都有权选择自己的使用方式。

What is your biggest fear? I'll give you mine. Okay. I think these are incredible technologies. Everybody I has the right to kind of approach this however they want.

如果有人选择完全不用，那没问题。我担心的是，我认为这些技术很有价值，是绝佳的学习工具。我发现人们可以在六个月内快速掌握，然后进入公司创造价值，或者自己创业。

And if somebody says I'm taking all my time, that's fine. My concern is I think there's a lot of value. I think it's an incredible learning tool. And I find that people can get up to speed very quickly in six months. I think six months time spending this stuff, you can then go into a company and you can do a lot of value or you can create a company and do this stuff.

我担心的是人们过于犹豫，不敢提问。也许我们在教学和传播方面做得还不够。我害怕的是人们会错过这些机会。

And my concern is that people are kind of hesitating too much and not asking a question. And maybe we're not doing enough to teach or communicate everything we're doing there. And I fear my fear is people missing out.

我持相反观点。可能因为我身处教育领域，我担心有些人会试图用AI绕过传统教育。教育体系存在很多漏洞，我害怕的是当这些人进入就业市场时，面试官不会问'你会怎么用AI解决这个问题'，而是会考察你的概念理解和问题解决能力，因为他们需要这种人文素养。

I kind of have like a like an opposite opposite view. I think that maybe specifically because I'm inserted in this education, that some people will try to find a way around everything that's traditionally education with AI. And there are a lot of loopholes within education. And my fear is that you'll get to job market and essentially people interviewing you are not going to ask like, oh, if you get this question, how are you going to put it into AI and solve it? Because AI can solve this question, whatever traditional coding question that you have, but they're really looking for the concepts and for how you adapt and solve problems because they need that human aspect as well.

人性不会消失。我担心的是这种工具会被过度使用，直到人们意识到传统教育仍然重要。

Like humanity is not going away. And my fear is that, like, the use of this tool is gonna go too far where they realize that, like, traditional education is still important.

嗯。

Mhmm.

理解这些概念仍然很重要。而且很难从中回溯。

And understanding those concepts is still important. And it'll be hard to, like, backtrack from there.

对我来说，恐惧源于知识和真相被集中在一个地方。我认为这才是更令人担忧的，因为目前我们尚未承认信息分散在众多不同地方的事实。学习的魅力在于将那些碎片整合成自己条理清晰的理解。但像使用ChatGPT这类聊天机器人作为搜索引擎或真相中心，可能会形成不良反馈循环——人们反复引用相同来源，而非主动拓展多元知识渠道。这正是我的忧虑所在。

For me, like, my fear component comes from a place more of, like, having kinda, like, knowledge and truth centralized in one place. I think that's what's more fearful for me because I think right now, we have not acknowledged fragmented in so many different places. And I think the beauty of learning is, like, taking each of those pieces and putting it together in one kind of, like, streamlined understanding for yourself. But I think with, you know, kind of the usage of, like, chat GBT and, like, certain, like, you know, like chatbots on its own and having that kinda as, like, the search engine or, like, the centralization of truth, I feel like could be, like, a bad feedback loop sometimes where I think you're referring to the same sources and not really doing kind of that work to, like, reach out different, like, knowledge sources. So I think that's where my fear comes from.

当出现特定主题的聊天机器人时，这种担忧会被放大。比如专为极右翼或极左翼活动家设计的聊天机器人。当人们陷入这种反馈循环，又因生成式AI的便利性而无法跳脱出来获得更广阔的视角时，正是我最担忧的情况。

And I think it becomes amplified when, like, you know, with the emergence of things where they're, like, specific, like, chatbots, like, that are themes. So, like, maybe, like, you know, doing like a chatbot only for, you know, far far right activists or, like, far less activists and, like, kinda when you, you know, go down those, like, feedback loops and you're unable to kinda extract yourself and have like a broader perspective because of kind of the accessibility of like generative AI, I think is like where my fear comes from.

所以你的恐惧类似于社交媒体中的回声室效应——人们只使用特定信源。但我总体持乐观态度，因为正如你之前指出的，我们可以更容易地说'我希望你参考这些来源，听取不同观点'。这是否意味着我们需要更多思考如何将'不挑战自我就无法真正学习'的理念融入教育，培养批判性思维？

So kind of like where our social media, your fear is kind of echo chambers that people are gonna say, I'm only gonna use these sources or that sources. Would say that I'm optimistic and overall optimistic because it's a lot easier, like you pointed out before, as you said, Hey, I want you to use these sources and I want you to take different opinions and I want that. And is that something we need to be thinking about incorporating more into education and how we teach people critical thinking? The idea that if you're not challenging yourself, you're not learning?

完全同意。这正是学习模式的优越之处——它能提供挑战性。当大脑深入思考不同反例和视角时，才能对思考对象形成全面评估。

For sure. I 100% agree with that. And I think that that's what the study mode does great. It does give you that challenging aspect. When your brain starts really diving deep and you start thinking critically thinking about maybe different counter examples, different perspectives, then you can get a full overall assessment of whatever you want to be thinking about.

每次我问这个问题都能得到精彩回答——有时是即时的，有时需要更长时间思考。我想问问你们最喜欢的提示词？那些能产生有趣结果或有创意的使用方式？

Every time I ask this question, I usually get a good answer. Sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes longer for people to think about that. I wanna ask about your favorite prompts, things that you've used that give you fun results or cool ways to use it.

我发现两个亮点：首先可以个性化定制——告诉ChatGPT我的饮食偏好和营养目标后，每次购物完拍下小票让它评分。比如根据这次采购，我在维生素摄入方面表现如何？

So I've kind of noticed two things, I think the main thing is I can really, I can kind of personalize and give ChatGPT the specifics about me and then have it give me an answer based on that. So I tell it my diet preferences, what I want out of the food that I'm eating. And when I go to the grocery store, I'll take a picture of the receipt and have it graded. You know, how well did I do based on this grocery trip? Because I want to make sure that I highlight and I get all of my vitamins and let's say that's my specific goal.

它能客观评分并追踪长期进展。关键在于提示词可以包含个人信息，AI会记住这些。比如我打篮球多年导致膝盖旧伤，传统腿部训练方式并不适合。

And it'll grade me based on that objectively and it'll also track progress over time. But I think the the main thing with with prompts is that you can talk about you yourself and it also store that in memory. So I I've been playing basketball for a long time, almost all my life. And I have like some knee issues that I've run into. And sometimes the traditional, like best way to like work out your legs isn't the best when you have knee pain.

每个人的疼痛类型和诱发条件都不同。当我告诉ChatGPT'做A动作不痛但B动作剧痛'时，它虽不擅长诊断，却能围绕我的特殊需求制定训练方案。

And everyone has different types of pain and, and different ways that that gets aggravated. So when I ask chatty PT, you know, have this pain, but when I do this exercise, it feels fine. But when I do this exercise, it really hurts. So can you make me can you maybe diagnose the problem? Maybe it's not that good at that, but can you make me just an exercise regimen that'll be wrapped around my specific needs?

这真的很酷，给了我一些灵感。对我而言，我能想到两个应用场景，但个人认为ChatGPT和AI带给我最宝贵的是时间。拥有更多时间让我感到快乐，所以我觉得ChatGPT确实让我作为一个人更快乐了。

That's really cool. Giving me some ideas. I think for me so I also can think of like two use cases, but I think personally for me, the best thing that, you know, ChadGPT and like AI gives me is like time. And I I think having more time makes me happy. So like, I feel like ChadGPT does make me happy as a person.

嗯。但我觉得最好的体现是在日常琐事上。有一次我使用它是因为我有15本想买的书单。离我学校最近的书店是GTLA的Last Bookstore，对不熟悉LA的人来说，那里停车特别困难。

Mhmm. But I think the best kinda, like, manifestation of that is, like, kinda, like, small day to day tasks. And I think one of the times I used it was so I think I had, like, a reading list of, like, 15 books that I wanted to go get. And so the nearest bookstore from my campus is the last bookstore, which is in GTLA. And for those of you who aren't from LA or know the area, it's really tough on parking.

这就像个速战速决的任务。我有时间压力，也不想花超过40美元。我想制定最优策略，在15分钟内进出书店。于是我先输入了15本书名，按照图书馆分类系统、作者姓氏和体裁进行整理。

It's kind of like a very in and out situation. So I think there's like a time pressure for me. And I also didn't want to pay like $40 after a certain point. I wanted to put together, you know, the optimal strategy to get in and out of the bookstore in, like, fifteen minutes. And so that started off with kind of feeding it, like, the 15 books that I had in mind and organize it based off of, like, the library's organizational system and then the last name of the authors and the genre.

基于这三个维度，它给出了最快拿书离开的最优方案。这个用例很棒，后来我也常用类似方法优化时间。还有个朋友教我的技巧是用语音模式提升效率——我看到他在开车时用语音模式。

So, like, kinda like those three inputs. And so it gave me the most optimal strat to kinda, like, grab those books and get out as fast as possible. So I thought that was a really cool use case and I've been using, you know, a lot of kind of use cases like that to optimize my time. And then just another kind of like use case that actually my friend taught me is to kind of use voice mode to really also help with that time convenience. And so I saw him use it while he was driving and he put it on voice mode.

每次在旧金山看到科技公司广告牌，他就问‘这是什么公司？广告什么意思？’这种边走边学的方式很棒，能把开车这种琐事变成兴趣探索。现在我也开始用了，目前在上暑期课。

And every time he would see like a tech billboard in San Francisco, he would ask it, oh, what is this company? Like, what does this billboard mean? So I think it was nice how he's able to kinda learn on the go and just like do some things that he's, like, interested in with kinda, like, mundane tasks like driving. And then so I started kinda adopting that. I'm taking, a summer course right now.

我每天要通勤上班，时间很紧。为了优化时间，我会用语音模式反复回顾课程概念，这样回家后大脑就能直接进入作业状态。这个功能非常酷，而且拟人程度惊人，就像真的在和人对话。

And so I don't have a lot of time with, you know, the work commute while driving, and then there's actual work for most of my day. So to really optimize my time, I've been just asking using voice mode to kind of do, like, steady, like, recalling back and forth on certain concepts so that when I get home, I feel like my brain is already ready and active to, like, do the assignments. So I think like that aspect has been really cool and being able to use that voice feature is also really cool because it's scarily like human like. So I feel like I'm actually talking to someone.

各位，今天很棒。感谢两位参与，期待下次再聊，看看你们未来的发展。

Guys, it's been great. I'd to thank you both for being here and look forward to talking again further down and seeing where your paths have taken you.

是的，非常感谢邀请。这个平台很适合讨论AI，特别是在教育领域这么重要的话题。很高兴能参与这次对话。

Yeah. No, thank you so much for having us. I feel like it's a great platform to kind of like talk about like AI and like, especially in the education space because it's something so salient. So I'm glad like, you know, we had this platform. Thank you for having us.

有人会用‘重要’这种高级词汇了呢。

People can use words like salient. Exactly.

我完全赞同她说的。这次对话太棒了，既探讨了尖锐话题，也聊了积极的内容。

I I echo what she said. No. This has this has been great. Great conversation. I'm glad we got to talk about some hard hitting topics and also some optimistic topics.

是的。我非常乐观。我是说，我们越能帮助朋友们适应并找到他们自己的定位，情况就会越好。

Yeah. I'm very optimistic. I mean, it's gonna be the more we can help our friends adapt and find their own place with it, the better.