美国接管委内瑞拉... 接下来会怎样？

所以，根据我在TikTok上的体验，我认为TikTok是支持MAGA的。

So TikTok, I believe from my experience with TikTok that it is MAGA.

它就是MAGA。

It is MAGA.

它是一回事。

It's one of same.

唐，我最后问你一个问题，也许斯特凡你也可以补充一下：国会到底做什么？

Last question for for you, Don, and maybe, Stefan, you can add to it, is what is what does congress do?

他们这周会回来，对吧？在某个时候。

They come back this week, right, at some point.

这里会发生什么？

What happens here?

他们会做什么？

What do they do?

因为他们一直相当沉默。

Because they've been rather quiet.

当然，鲁比奥在电视上和各个地方都在大谈特谈，说了一些理由，虽然和唐纳德·特朗普的理由不同，但他们一直在炒作这个话题。

And, of course, Rubio was all over the all over the TV, all over the place talking about, you know, justifications, which are different than Donald Trump's just but they were talking it up.

这毫无疑问。

That's for sure.

那么接下来会发生什么？

So what happens next?

我认为国会会制造很多噪音，但最终什么也不做，就像他们一贯做的那样，真令人遗憾。

Well, I think congress will make a lot of noise and then do nothing as they always do, sadly.

我的意思是，他们需要做更多。

I mean, they need to do more.

他们可以启动某种程序。

They could start some sort of procedure.

他们完全可以举行听证会。

They can just do hearings.

他们可以要求采取某些行动。

They can demand something.

实际上，你知道，查克·舒默确实说了那个F词，但他早就该有这种劲头了。

Actually, you know, Chuck Schumer, you know, actually said the F bomb, but he should have been he should have had that energy a long time ago.

早就该是几年前了。

Should have been Years ago.

在罗伊案被推翻之前。

Years ago before Roe was overturned.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

在唐纳德·特朗普第二次当选之前，他们就应该有勇气，如你所说，采取行动。

Before Donald Trump got elected the second time, they should have had the balls, as you said, to do something.

他们？嗯，也许问题就在于‘勇气’，因为如果由女性掌权，我们知道如何同时处理多件事。

They're Well, maybe balls are the problem because if women were in charge, we know how to multitask.

对吧？

Right?

而且想想看，我们知道如何同时处理多件事。

And when think about we know how to multitask.

而且虽然委内瑞拉非常重要，但它将占据国会的注意力。

And and while Venezuela is hugely important, it's gonna occupy congress.

它并没有占据美国人民的日常生活，而美国人民即将面对飙升的医疗成本和负担能力问题，虽然我绝不会说这是一场劳动力危机，但目前我国确实正面临一个脆弱的劳动力状况。

It's not occupying the daily lives of the American people, and the American people are about to wrestle with soaring health care costs, affordability problems, and we've got I'm not I'm certainly not gonna say a labor crisis by any means, but we've got a tenuous labor situation happening in this country right now.

所以立法者们将要回去处理这些问题。

So so lawmakers are gonna go back.

他们必须处理委内瑞拉问题，以及我们在那里投入的巨大精力、时间和金钱，然后还要应对美国人民日常生活中面临的种种问题——正是这些问题导致唐纳德·特朗普在年底之前的民调数字持续下滑。

They've gotta deal with Venezuela, the amount of effort and time and money we're gonna spend there, and then the the issues facing American people's daily lives, which are the reason Donald Trump's poll numbers were getting lower and lower in the months leading into year's end.

最后，布鲁克，除了这个荒谬的马杜罗服装事件之外，下一个病毒式传播的话题会是什么？

And step finally, Brooke, what's the next viral thing besides this ridiculous Maduro outfit thing?

我认为我们会看到更多这种荒谬的行为。

I think we're gonna see more of the ridiculousness.

我认为我们会看到，现在他被关进了曾经关押P·迪迪和路易吉的监狱。

I think we're gonna see, like, the the right now, we're seeing the fact that he's in the prison that P Diddy was in and Luigi.

但接下来有个问题，卡拉。

But then here's the question, Kara.

两周后，在达沃斯，届时所有世界领袖和商业领袖将齐聚一堂，讨论我们如何合作让世界变得更美好、更强大，今年的主题会是什么？

Two weeks from now in like, truly, two weeks from now in Davos, when every world leader and business leader all gets together and talks about how we're gonna collaborate and make the world better and stronger together, what's gonna be the theme this year?

那个强势人物做到了？

Strong man who done it?

我，是的。

I I Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那到底是什么？

Well, what is it?

你要去吗？

You're going?

我不去。

I am not.

我真想看看杰夫·贝佐斯会穿什么，因为这才是我们都在关心的。

I can't wait to see what Jeff Bezos wears because that's what we all care about.

好吧。

Alright.

继续。

Moving on.

好好想想。

Have think on.

谁

Who

我真心觉得参加达沃斯的人其实都心知肚明。

I honestly think the people who attend Davos are are sort of in on it.

你知道的。

You know?

他们想要钱。

They want the money.

所以，是的，我不觉得会有什么主题，或者你知道的？

So, yeah, I don't think there's gonna be a theme or you know?

好的。

Okay.

这是个很好的观点，但是但是但是好吧。

That's a great point because but but but okay.

但问题是，唐。

But here's the problem then, Don.

达沃斯的理念本应是关于深思熟虑的领导力。

The idea of Davos is supposed to be about thoughtful leadership.

而如果我们现在的企业和政治领袖们的态度是：如果你打不赢他们，就加入他们。

And if where we are right now with our business and political leaders is, if you can't beat them, join them.

让我也来参与这场忙碌。

Let me get in on the hustle.

那这就是我的问题了。

Then I guess that's my question.

每年都是，达沃斯人究竟是谁？

Every year, it's what is the Davos man?

那么，如果他只是一个参与加密货币投机的人，他到底算什么？

Well, what the heck is he if he's just somebody who's in on the crypto hustle?

我认为他们会听起来很像唐纳德·特朗普在空军一号上，林赛·格雷厄姆站在他旁边，准备跪下来，给你擦鞋或者做点别的什么。

I think they're gonna sound a lot like Donald Trump on Air Force one with Lindsey Graham standing next to him about to drop to his knees and, you know, shine his shoes or whatever he's gonna do.

他们把这话说出口了。

They said it out loud.

他们说，这关乎

They said, this is

是关于石油的。

about oil.

他说，唐纳德·特朗普说这关乎石油。

He said, Donald Trump said this is about oil.

林赛·格雷厄姆说，随着这些交易和一切的发生，我们将因为这些新机遇变得更加繁荣，这就是重点，这也是达沃斯将要关注的。

And Lindsey Graham said, with all of the deals and all of this happening, we're gonna become more prosperous with all of these new so that's what it's about, and that's what Davos is gonna be about.

就是这样。

That's it.

好的。

Okay.

那我们什么时候谈债务和赤字呢？

Then when are we gonna talk about debt and deficits?

如果我们以这种方式变得更富裕，那将花费我们巨额资金。

If we're gonna become more prosperous this way, it's going to cost us an enormous amount of money.

所以在达沃斯——那些最大的投资者和债券大亨们聚集的地方——他们对这种支出怎么看？

So in Davos, where the biggest investors and bond daddies go, what do they think about this kind of spending?

好吧。

Alright.

我们继续吧。

Let's go

先休息一下。

on a quick break.

回来后，我们会聊聊一部低成本加拿大热门剧集对娱乐业未来意味着什么。

When we come back, we'll talk about what a buzzy, low budget Canadian show means for the future of entertainment.

我知道你们都喜欢这个。

I know you guys love this one.

在电视的大部分历史中，如果你错过了某个节目，那就真的错过了。

For most of the history of television, if you missed a show, you just missed it.

它结束了。

It was over.

它消失了。

It was gone.

但后来，一家名叫TiVo的小公司出现了，赋予了人们超能力。

But then this little company called TiVo came along and gave people superpowers.

你可以暂停直播电视。

You could pause live television.

你可以倒回播放。

You could rewind it.

你可以保存下来，稍后再看。

You could save it and watch it later.

这太不可思议了，拥有它的人根本停不下来谈论它。

It was incredible, and the people who had it could not stop talking about it.

本周《版本历史》——一档关于旧科技的全新访谈节目——我们将探讨TiVo的历史，以及一家实际上从未有人真正拥有或使用过其产品的公司，如何成为科技界最传奇的故事之一。

This week on Version History, a new chat show about old technology, we talk about the history of TiVo and how it is that a company whose products actually no one ever really had or used became one of the most iconic stories in tech.

所有内容尽在您收听播客的平台上的《版本历史》。

All that on Version History wherever you get podcasts.

我再次与唐·莱蒙、斯蒂芬妮·鲁尔和布鲁克·哈默林相聚。

I'm back with Don Lemon, Stephanie Ruhl, and Brooke Hammerling.

现在我们要聊点轻松一点的话题。

Now we're gonna get into something a little lighter.

假期期间，我们有更多时间观看电视节目和电影。

We have we had a lot of time to take in more TV shows and movies over the holiday break.

让我们聊聊过去几周的爆款明星——激烈竞争，这可是你最喜爱的话题。

Let's talk about the breakout star of the past few weeks, heated rivalry, which is your favorite thing.

还有，唐似乎也喜欢。

Also, Don's, apparently.

斯蒂芬妮，你也可以发表一下看法。

Stephanie, you can weigh in too.

请简要解释一下这部剧的文化影响，并谈谈它从商业角度意味着什么。

Explain very briefly the cultural impact of the show and talk what it means from a business perspective.

这是一部低成本的加拿大制作，类似于K-pop恶魔猎人。

This was a low budget Canadian production, not unlike k pop demon hunters.

一样的情况。

Same thing.

没错。

Right.

加拿大的，

Canadian and

斯蒂芬妮之前提到过，当时美国人关心的是什么。

Stephanie said earlier what was the occupying the minds of American people.

现在占据美国人思绪的就是《激烈对决》，一部来自加拿大的同性恋冰球剧集。

This is what's occupying the minds of American people, which is Heated Rivalry, a gay hockey drama series coming out of Canada.

很多人以为这是HBO的节目，因为它由HBO发行，但实际上它是加拿大这个流媒体平台制作的。

A lot of people think it's HBO because it's been distributed by HBO, but it was made by this streaming country.

没错。

Yeah.

在美国。

In The US.

它是由加拿大一家名为Crave的流媒体平台制作的，每集成本高达300万到500万美元。

It's just it was made by this streaming platform in Canada called, Crave, and it costs 3 to 5,000,000 an episode.

对比一下《怪奇物语》，我觉得它的最终集成本大约是5000万美元。

Compare that to stranger things, which I think was, like, 50,000,000 sense finale.

没错。

Yeah.

每集。

Episode.

那么，目前主导讨论的是什么？

And what is what is dominating the conversation?

现在，各个方面都存在着激烈的竞争。

Right now, it's heated rivalry in every aspect.

我的意思是，人们都说，唐，你又重看了一遍。

I mean, people are like, Don, you've rewatched it.

对吧？

Right?

这已经成了一种现象。

This is a phenomenon.

人们正在反复观看它。

People are rewatching it.

人们不仅仅是在看一部剧集。

People are not just watching a series.

作为小组讨论中那位专家级的同性恋男士。

As the expert gay man on on a panel.

但是

Well, but

你知道吗

you know what's

有趣的是什么？

so interesting?

就是。

Just.

那就是你称它为一个同性恋故事的时候。

That's when you said it was a gay story.

这实际上是一个爱情故事。

It's actually a love story.

这是一个爱情故事。

It's a love story.

这确实是一个爱情故事，但人们称它为‘同性恋冰球剧’。

It is a love story, but people are calling it the gay hockey show.

但它确实有很多性内容。

But it is sex heavy.

它确实有很多性内容。

It is sex heavy.

但那一集第五集最重要的部分却没有任何性爱场面。

But the most important episode of that episode five had no sex.

而你所看到的，我认为这是一件非常有趣的事情。

And what you're seeing, I think it's a really interesting thing.

我的意思是，首先你知道吗？根据Pornhub的数据，47%的同性恋色情内容观看者是异性恋女性。

I mean, first of all, do you know that according to Pornhub, 47% of viewers of gay porn are straight women?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这，你知道，就是这样。

That's, you know, that's just the way

事实如此。

it is.

直女们在讨论这个剧。

Straight women are talking about this show.

直女们非常喜欢这个剧。

Straight women love this show.

但是，布鲁克，让我挑战一下你的观点。

But, Brooke, let me let me let me I wanna challenge you on this.

这是性内容过多，还是只是人们不习惯看到同性性爱？

Is it sex heavy, or is it just people or is it just that people are not used to seeing gay sex?

不。

No.

我的意思是，我觉得卡拉

I mean, I I feel like Cara

我看过很多直男剧，性爱场景比这个剧多得多，但没人说它们性内容过多。

I've seen straight shows that have lots of sex, more sex than this show, and no one says it's sex heavy.

只是人们可能不习惯看到同性男性以这种方式在屏幕上展现亲密。

Just that they're they're maybe not used to seeing gay men being intimate on screen that way.

好吧，

Well,

我觉得卡娜最喜欢的节目是《狩猎妻子》，所以这些男孩才能跑起来。

I think Cara's favorite show, Hunting Wives Walked, so so that these boys could run.

那正是对这个的有趣回应。

That was the that was the amused boosh to this.

我正要说，我之所以觉得它性内容多，是因为我看《狩猎妻子》时，会离开客厅，到私密的地方看，我也有同样的体验。

I was just about to say the reason I said sex heavy is because my experience in watching hunting wives where I would leave, like, my family room and watch it in a private area, I had the same experience.

为什么？

Why?

因为我家里有孩子跑来跑去。

Because I have kids running around my house.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，没错，你确实会在我家

I mean, yeah, you would nail in that in my

昨晚在飞机上发生抢劫时，我就想

in robbery on the plane last night, I was like

天哪。

Oh my god.

等等，所以。

Well, so wait.

我不知道那是什么。

I I don't what it is.

等等。

Wait.

你知道吗

You know

那是什么？

what it is?

你回来了，道格。

You're back, Doug.

嗯，没有。

Well, no.

当你意识到正在发生口交时，那种氛围确实存在，是的。

When there's the presence when you're aware that oral sex is taking place Yeah.

而且你家里还有孩子，嗯。

And you have children in your house Uh-huh.

对我来说，那种电视内容性暗示太重了。

Like like, that's sex heavy TV for me.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们已经确认了，电视上常出现传教士体位的性行为，而这两部剧展现的是不同的风格。

We've established regular missionary sex happens on TV, and both those shows feature a different flavor.

是的。

Yeah.

很多，是的。

A lot of yeah.

你说得对。

You're right.

你

You're

对。

right.

来谈谈他们俩吧，因为你知道，《猎杀之眼》要拍第二季了。

Well, talk about the two of them together because, you know, he hunting watch is coming back for a second season.

《竞争的热度》有

Heat of rivalry is Has

再拍两季。

two more seasons.

是这样的。

So here's the thing.

我认为你面临很多未知因素，而且我们尤其在关注这一点。

I think it's you have a bunch of unknowns, and we're also watching in particular.

我的意思是，有三位主要角色，其中康纳·斯托里饰演伊利亚，如果你看俄语对话，你会发现俄罗斯网友在TikTok上因为他的口音和俄语而疯狂——不只是他讲英语时的口音，还有他的俄语。

I mean, the there are three main guys, which are Connor Story, who plays Ilya, who speaks if you watch Russian talk, which is TikTok with Russians, they lose they're losing their minds over his accent and his Russian when not just his accent speaking English, but his Russian.

这是一个在德克萨斯出生并长大的人，却在开拍前一周才开始学习俄语。

This is a Texan born and raised who started taking Russian lessons a week before filming.

这太惊人了。

It's phenomenal.

你正在见证康纳·斯托里成为明星。

You're watching, Connor's story become a star.

就在我们眼前，一颗新星诞生了。

And right before our eyes, star is born.

我们希望名气不会腐蚀他。

We hope that fame doesn't corrupt him.

哈德森·威廉姆斯饰演的肖恩·霍兰德是一位新人，正经历着非凡的时刻。

Hudson Williams, who is plays, Shane Hollander, is an unknown that is just having an unbelievable moment.

然后是最有名的那位，我非常喜欢他在《富家穷路》中的表现，他就是弗朗索瓦·阿尔诺，饰演斯科特·亨特。

And then the more the most known, I loved him in Schitt's Creek, was Francois Arnaud, who plays Scott, Hunter.

他主演了关键的一集，也就是第五集，这一集完全没有性爱场面。

And he is the one who had that pivotal pivotal episode, which is episode five, which has zero sex.

所以我认为他们把你吸引进来了。

So I think the they bring you in.

这很性感。

It's sexy.

它很性感，所以让我来谈谈斯蒂芬妮和布鲁克刚刚提到的关于新人和降低成本的想法。

It's sexy and so let let me Stephanie, Brooke just brought up this idea of unknowns and lower costs and stuff like that.

从这个角度聊聊吧，因为现在好莱坞的制作成本非常高，但有时这些投入是值得的。

Talk a little bit about this from a like, because right now, the costs of Hollywood are massive, and sometimes they pay off.

看吧。

Look.

《阿凡达》在票房上大获成功，尤其是在海外。

Avatar is killing it at the box office, especially abroad.

但当我几年前采访泰德·萨兰多斯时，他说，未来只有大型作品和小型作品，中间部分将不复存在。

But there's a lot of these something when I interviewed Ted Sarandos years ago, he was like, there's no there's only gonna be the big ones and the little ones, and the middle is gone.

但这也正是这部剧的魅力所在，就像独立媒体的美妙之处一样。

But that's why the beauty of this show is the same stroke of beauty of independent media.

对吧？

Right?

在独立媒体出现之前，当只有几个巨型支柱时——比如只有三个电视网络、三家重要报纸、三家电影公司——你必须一步步往上爬，成为这个庞大 conglomerate 和营销机器的一部分，这才是内容传播的唯一途径。

Before independent media existed, when there was just giant pillars, right, when there was three television networks, when there was three papers of note, when there was three movie studios, you had to work your way up and be part of this giant conglomerate and marketing machine, and that's the only way that content could be distributed.

但现在，如果你创作出一些神奇的东西，它自己就能找到出路。

Now if you make something magical, it can find legs.

它能找到自己的归宿。

It can find a home.

而这正是它的美妙之处，对吧？

And that's sort of the beauty of right?

我们总是谈论社交媒体的问题，比如那些不良行为者等等。

We talk so much about the problems of social media and all the, you know, the bad actors and so on and so forth.

但当现在系统被打破，这些无名之辈可以在小平台上创作内容，然后获得传播时，在我看来，这非同寻常，而这种事在几十年前根本不可能发生，那时只有三位好莱坞制片厂主管双臂交叉，掌控着整个行业。

But when you now have the system broken and these unknowns can create something on a small platform and then it gets distributed, to me, like, that's extraordinary, and that's something that couldn't have happened decades ago back when there were, you know, three studio heads with theirs with their arms folded running Hollywood.

曾经有过突破。

There were breakouts.

他们

They

是突破。

were breakouts.

是的。

Yes.

她说得对，卡拉，你继续。

What she said, Kara Go ahead.

说吧，医生。

Go, doc.

卡拉，我想说，记得我们之前聊过这个话题，我们谈到了你在独立媒体、独立记者和播客上看到的一些东西。

Kara, look, I wanna say, remember when we had this conversation, we talked about, you know, some of the things you see on independent media and independent journalists and podcasts.

你知道，这都是由一支精简团队完成的，就像传统广播那样。

You know, it's done by a skeleton crew, what you would call for broadcast.

当你走进一个大型广播工作室的办公室时，你会想：这些人在这里做什么？

And you walk into a big broadcast studio office and you go, what are all these people doing here?

所以斯蒂芬妮说得对。

And so Stephanie is right.

这就是媒体的未来方向。

This is where the media is going.

将会出现重大的突破。

There will be big breakthroughs.

会有大公司出现。

There's gonna be the big guys.

而我仍然认为自己是个小人物。

And then I still consider myself a little guy.

也会有像我这样的小人物。

There's gonna be a little guy like me.

但这就是趋势所在。

But this is where it's going.

我认为这实际上很棒，因为像你所说的，小的东西也能产生影响力，而那些大的东西往往过度思考，正如斯蒂芬妮提到的，那些人围坐在一起，觉得必须通过这种方式扩张之类的，但我们现在已不再如此。

And I think it's actually fantastic because something that's small can have lift, as you say, and something that's big where it's overthought, what Stephanie says with these guys and people sitting around going, it's gotta grow through this or whatever, that's not where we are anymore.

我们已经不再那样了。

We're not there anymore.

人们想要的是有点混乱但真实的东西。

People want it a little messy and authentic.

我同意。

I I agree.

我是一个坚定的完美主义者，我认为两者都有空间。

I'm a great period, and I think there's space for both.

我认为这正是它的精彩之处。

And I think that's what's awesome about it.

你们觉得呢？我担心的是，随着成功和流行，它已经成为了文化潮流。

What do you guys think what I'm afraid, and so I'd love your thoughts, is that with the success and the popularity, I mean, it's become the cultural zeitgeist.

你有斯蒂芬·科尔伯特谈论他自己是个爱发号施令的底层人物。

You have Stephen Colbert talking about he was a bossy bottom.

你昨晚在颁奖典礼的红毯上看到杰夫·戈德布卢姆被问到他是否

You had Jeff Goldblum asked last night on the red carpet at the awards show whether or not he's

你提到了一个很好的观点。

You bring up a good point.

我相信，这将像《威尔和格蕾丝》一样改变社会。

This is gonna change society, I believe, like Will and Grace did.

我觉得这

I think that's

如果它改变了节目，他们可能会说：‘现在我们这么受欢迎了，我们不再只是吸引三到五百万观众，而是要达到两千万到三千万观众？’

gonna What happens if it changes the show where they're like, oh, now that we're so popular, we're gonna instead of three to 5,000,000, we're gonna go to 20 to 30,000,000?

我觉得，这会改变节目的核心脉搏

That, I feel, will change the heartbeat

那些节目的核心脉搏。

of those show.

现在这些剧集的生命周期都变短了。

Short these all these shows now have such a shorter life.

对吧？

Right?

但如果真这样，预算会翻三倍。

But if it doesn't budgets go triple.

对吧？

Right?

这些被剪掉的孩子现在都成了大明星。

These cut kids are now huge celebrities.

或者

Or

《欢乐合唱团》就发生过这种情况。

Well, it happened with Glee.

或者你提到的例子是，还记得《没人想要这个》第一季吗？

Or maybe the example that you're pointing to is remember the first season of Nobody Wants This.

好吧？

Okay?

没错。

Exactly.

早就料到了。

Expected it.

你享受了每一刻。

You loved every minute of it.

这到底是什么？

It was like, what is this?

它打动了我。

It's touching me.

它与我产生了共鸣。

It's connecting me.

然后第二季

And then the second season

那是个广告。

Was an ad.

当时炒作得沸沸扬扬。

Which had which had so much hype.

这是品牌营销。

It was branding.

充满了品牌植入和产品推广。

Had so much branding and product placement.

呃。

Ugh.

所有像我一样喜欢这部剧、与这部剧产生共鸣的女性，都感觉你在被推销一种爱彼迎的体验。

All the people like all the women like me who felt that show, who are connected to that show, then felt like you were being sold an Airbnb experience.

还有唐恩都乐。

And Dunkin' Donuts.

它

It

太糟糕了。

was awful.

我觉得他们曾经拥有某种魔力，我并不是在贬低这部剧，但他们失去了那种独特的魅力。

Felt like I I felt like they had this magic, and it's still I'm not knocking the show, but they lost their magic of being this.

我们就直接做这个吧，根本没人想要这个，标题就是如此。

We're just gonna make this the nobody wants this, literally the title.

根本没人想要这个，但我们还是要做。

Nobody wants this, and we're just gonna make it.

而它却引起了所有人的共鸣。

And it connected with everybody.

当第二季到来时，他们疯狂地植入广告，当时我就觉得，我真是。

And then when season two came and they product placed the hell out of it, there was a lot more like, I'm a

你知道的？

you know?

考虑到流媒体平台漫长的制作周期，尤其是像《Pluribus》这样热门的剧集，这确实是个难题。

Is the difficulty of having, you know, the long timelines, especially with the streamers, like, thinking of Pluribus, another popular show.

天哪。

Oh, for god's sake.

听好了。

Listen.

关于《Pluribus》，你知道的，别再提了

I Pluribus, you know, just shut your blood

而且你

and you're

你只是在推销这部剧。

trying to sell this show.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不应字面上的

Shall not literally the

它赢得了什么？

what did it win?

它赢得了

What did it

昨晚赢了奖项吗？

win the award last night?

这无关紧要，就五个人而已。

It doesn't matter, like, five people.

我喜欢这个节目，但你不能把它和《Heated》相提并论，尤其是在完整长度方面。

I love the show, but you cannot put it in the same breath as Heated by the way in terms of the full length like us.

你完了。

You're done.

确实是。

It is.

这太疯狂了。

It is nuts.

确实是。

It is.

我能插一句吗？我觉得这不会改变，因为雅各布·蒂尔尼——你知道的，布鲁克——他是这部作品的加拿大创作者，他们正在改编一本书？

Can I jump in here and tell you, I don't think it's going to change because Jacob Tierney, who you know, Brooke, he's a Canadian creator of this, they're adapting a book?

他们必须保持

They have to stay

一本由女性撰写的书。

somewhat A book written by a woman.

忠于原著，一本由女性撰写的书。

To the book, a book written by a woman.

我一直关注他，因为我着迷了。

And I've been watching him because I'm obsessed.

我丈夫说：你对这个着迷了。

My husband's like, you're obsessed with this.

所以我认为雅各布·蒂尔尼知道这不能改变。

And so I think that Jacob Tierney knows that it cannot change.

它必须真实，而且必须继续保持这样。

It's gotta be authentic and it's gotta hope stay so.

但我想说一件事。

But here's what, I just wanna say this one thing.

你知道《威尔和格蕾丝》是如何改变文化，让同性恋者在电视上接吻或出现同性恋剧情变得被接受的，我相信这件事正在对文化产生同样的影响，因为正如布鲁克提到的，直男们也在谈论它。

You know how Will and Grace changed the culture and made it okay for gay people to kiss on TV or just to have gay plot lines on television, I believe that this is doing the same thing to the culture because as Brooke mentioned, straight guys are talking about it.

冰球播客和谈话类播客都在谈论它。

Hockey podcast are are talk podcasters are talking about it.

那些

People who

做这件事的人

do this they're

都在谈论它。

about it.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以，是的。

And so yeah.

进入净人。

Into Netters.

进入净人。

Into Netters.

一个由一群白人男性组成的播客，他们都是体育和冰球狂热粉丝。

Podcast with a bunch of white boys who are sports hockey fanatics.

他们最不可能做的事情就是哭。

They are last thing expect, they are crying.

这是我见过的男性最明显的积极信号。

They it's the biggest green flag of men I've ever seen.

我从未感到过好。

I've never been Okay.

会制作

Will make

现在就做。

it now.

我能说一件事吗？

Can I say one thing?

说吧。

Go ahead.

我能给你讲个故事吗？

Can I can I tell you a story?

好的。

Yes.

说吧。

Go ahead.

请讲。

Please.

好的。

Okay.

很好。

Good.

我我没事。

I I okay.

我打算

I'm gonna

给你讲个故事。

tell you a story.

布鲁克要

Brooke's gonna

拿到它。

get it.

所以我完全没有体育背景。

So I don't have a sports background whatsoever.

当我大学四年级时，我去新奥尔良参加狂欢节，有个男孩带我去了一位当时也是大四学生——佩顿·曼宁——家吃晚餐。

When I was a senior in college, I went to Mardi Gras in New Orleans, and a boy took me up to a dinner at then senior in college's house, Peyton Manning.

那时他非常出名，但我根本不知道他是谁。

It was a big I at the time, I didn't even know who he was.

狂欢节结束后不久，他就即将赢得海斯曼奖。

He was about to win the Heisman right after Mardi Gras ended.

我坐在一张超长的餐桌旁，周围全是密西西比大学的橄榄球队球员。

I'm sitting at a long, long, long dinner table of all of these Ole Miss football players.

我对密西西比大学一无所知。

I know nothing about Ole Miss.

我对大学橄榄球也一无所知。

I know nothing about college football.

但看着一桌45个男生，我问旁边的人：感觉怎么样？

But looking at a table of 45 boys, I say to the guy next to me, what is it like?

球队里有同性恋球员和异性恋球员，他们之间相处得怎么样？

What does the mix go with, you know, like, gay players on the team and straight players on the team?

好吧。

Okay.

这个问题源于我是个不懂体育的女生，但我懂数学。

This question came because I'm a girl who doesn't know sports, but I know math.

概率和统计学告诉我们，当几十个、几百个男人聚在一起时，里面总会有一些同性恋者。

And probability and statistics would tell you when dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of men are in a group, there's some gay ones in there.

当我在这场1990年或1997年于佩顿·曼宁家或他父母家的晚宴上问出这个问题时，我的约会对象差点把我扔进沼泽，掀了桌子。

When I asked this question at this dinner at Peyton Manning's house in '90 or his parents' house in 1997, my date practically threw me in the bayou, flipped the table.

被赶了出去。

Escorted out.

对吧？

Right?

真的。

For real.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

真的。

For real.

我的意思是，一个男人用双手拍了桌子。

I mean, a guy hit the table both hands.

什么？

Like, what?

你在开玩笑吧？

Are you kidding me?

我的意思是，我当时正坐上回新泽西的快车，而我们现在都过去三十年了。

I mean, like, it was I was on the fast train back to Jersey, and here we are thirty years later.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且没人说让

And nobody's saying Let

让我来说。

me say.

你打曲棍球。

You play hockey.

你是同性恋。

You're gay.

是的。

Yeah.

这是概率与统计。

It's probability and statistics.

让我这么说，那从来就不是球队。

Let me say that's never the team.

这是女子体育的问题。

An issue for women's sports.

我们说的是谁是直的。

Who's straight here is what we say.

但布鲁克，这能说明点什么吗？

But may it point something out, Brooke?

你以为我错了。

Erroneous as you think I am.

我们当中谁被邀请去参与这场激烈竞争的客串呢？

Who among us has been invited to do a cameo on heated rivalry?

卡拉·斯威舍。

Kara Swisher.

我忘了这一点。

I forget that.

卡拉，你在哪里？

Kara, where are you?

是的。

Yeah.

你正在做这件事吗？

And are you doing it?

是的。

Yes.

你简直是个十足的傻瓜。

You were a total mother pucker.

顺便说一句，我年轻时是个冰球迷。

I was, by the way, a puck bunny when I was in

高光时刻啊，朋友。

high cameos, my friend.

什么是冰球迷？

What's a puck bunny?

我们父母说：如果你能搞到游骑兵队的票，就去玩吧。

Our parents were like, if you can get us ranger tickets, have fun.

哇。

Wow.

去你的。

Puck you.

不。

No.

卡拉。

Kara.

布鲁克，我能问你一下，你喜欢伊莉娅吗？

Brooke, can I ask you, do you like, Iliya?

你记得的是哪一个？

And which is the that you remember?

你更喜欢哪个爱情故事？

Do you what love story do you like more?

你喜欢伊莉娅，还是喜欢斯科特的？

Do you like Ilya, or do do you like Scott's?

嗯，我曾经是斯科特的粉丝，因为那个场景，但我并不喜欢斯科特的男朋友。

Well, I was a Scott hunter because that scene but I don't love Scott's boyfriend.

我就直说了。

I'm just gonna be honest.

他就像个矮个子国王。

He's like a short king.

他很棒，但他不是我的类型。

He's great, but he's not my guy.

但我对伊利亚和谢恩着迷了。

But Ilya and and Shane, I'm obsessed with.

但伊利亚，我的意思是，康纳的故事里，有一段视频是他接受《采访》杂志采访时穿的，你知道的，一件金氏健身T恤，还对着麦当娜的《祈祷》在假唱。

But Ilya I mean, I Connor's story, there's this video of him that he did with interview magazine where he's wearing a, you know, a Gold's Gym T shirt, and he's lip syncing to Madonna's like a prayer.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且他确实喜欢这一切。

And he does I love all of that.

而且他，呃，不是。

And and he well, no.

那是另一个，但这个是他做过的那个，没错。

That's a different one, but this is the one where he does this yeah.

总之，他就是，这东西太魔性了，我说不清为什么，但这段视频已经火遍全网了。

He's anyway, he's he's it's very I I can't explain it, but this thing has gone so viral.

他们在夜总会播放这个视频。

They're showing it in nightclubs.

DJ们在视频中插入内容。

DJs are interjecting in video.

体育酒吧里也在放。

Sports bars.

他们正在播放这个视频。

They're showing it.

是的。

Yeah.

在我的文化里，有一个特别搞笑的TikTok视频。

They're they're there's a very funny TikTok in my culture.

这周的通讯里提到，有两个女人说，她们和闺蜜们坐在地板上，用筷子吃中餐，一遍又一遍地看这个三十秒的片段。

In newsletter this week that is these two women that are saying, like, dinner and a movie and their girlfriends eating Chinese food out of with their chopsticks on the floor watching this thirty second clip over and over again.

我好奇Tina Mels会不会因为这个重新流行起来，Brooke。

I wonder if Tina Mels are gonna make a comeback because of this, Brooke.

我没事。

I okay.

从未离开。

Never left.

我们现在停一下。

We're stopping now.

我就说

Me just say

我不知道这是否是我的最爱。

I wonder if it's my favorite.

我猜唐纳德·特朗普

I wonder if Donald Trump

正在观看激烈的勇敢场面。

is watching heated bravery.

你知道那本杂志吗？我简直能想象出他们之间的对话，比如

You know that mag the I can just imagine the conversation that, like, they've

带来了林赛·格雷厄姆正在观看它。

brought Lindsey Graham is watching it.

有这么多

There's so

天

many days

在MAGA和共和党人中。

in MAGA and Republicans.

当然，

Of course,

他们正在观看它。

they're watching it.

据称。

Allegedly.

好吧。

Alright.

我们来短暂休息一下。

Let's go on a quick break.

回来后，我想知道你们对2026年最重要的新闻有什么看法。

And when we come back, I wanna know what you all think about the biggest stories of 2026.

唐、斯蒂芬妮·布鲁克，我们回来了。

Don, Stephanie Brooke, we're back.

接下来，新的一年到了。

Moving along, it's a new year.

我想知道你们每个人认为2026年最重要的新闻会是什么。

I want, to know what each of you think will be the biggest stories of 2026.

我希望你们能展望未来。

I want you to spin it forward.

唐，你先说，不管是政治还是别的什么。

Don, you'll start politics or whatever.

我不在乎你怎么想。

I don't whatever you think.

但让我们谈谈政治，这会很好，不过无论你认为未来最大的新闻是什么。

But let's politics would be great, but whatever you think is the biggest story going forward.

我认为未来最大的新闻将是MAGA运动的分裂。

Well, think the biggest story going forward is gonna be the fracturing of MAGA.

这已经开始了。

It's already started.

MAGA媒体，从梅根·凯莉、坎迪斯·欧文斯和本尼·约翰逊等人开始。

The MAGA media, starting with the Megan Kellys and the Candace Owens and the Benny Johnsons

是的。

and Yeah.

世界在争吵。

World beefing.

是的。

Yeah.

他们在互撕，我认为这正是MAGA走向终结的开端。

They're beefing, and I think that that is that is the beginning of the end of MAGA.

这就是我相信未来最大的新闻。

That's what I believe the biggest story is going to be moving forward.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

All right.

对我来说，

For me,

你知道，我会选择经济，因为归根结底，我认为人们的投票方式真正取决于他们的钱包和生活状况。

you know, I'm gonna pick the economy because at the end of the day, I think how people vote is truly rooted in their pocketbook and and how they live.

有趣的是，经济正在增长，但其增长十分脆弱，实际上完全掌握在特朗普手中。

And what's interesting is the economy is growing, but its growth is fragile, and it's really in the palm of Trump's hands.

也就是说，经济是增长还是衰退，完全取决于特朗普的去全球化政策。

Like, whether the economy builds or weakens depends entirely on Trump's deglobalization agenda.

对吧？

Right?

关税，大规模驱逐。

Tariffs, mass deportations.

所以我只是觉得，在这种K型经济中，富人越来越富，穷人越来越穷，而且今年这种情况更加加剧了，我们未来的走向才是我关注的焦点。

So so I just think where we go in this K shaped economy, right, where the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer, and we have and that's only getting exaggerated this year, where we're headed, is is where I'm laser beam focused.

是真的在增长，还是只是表面现象？

Is it really growing or is it Astroturf?

就是因为这个K型现象，我在想，这种增长是真实的吗？

That's why because that K thing, I'm like, is that growth real?

因为人们实际上更穷了，而需要更多人有能力购买商品，而不是少数人购买。

Because people are a lot poorer and you need more people being able to buy things than fewer people being able to buy them.

所以我不确定这是否

So I don't know if that

是的。

Yes.

但他可以通过委内瑞拉来刺激经济。

But, well, he could be goosing it with Venezuela.

他可以通过一些方式来刺激经济，

He could be there's ways to goose it,

对，来刺激经济。

right, to goose the economy.

经济确实在被刺激着。

Economy is certainly being goosed.

我们可以有更多联邦干预。

We could have more federal intervention.

我们可以有更多类似的农业援助法案。

We could have more farm aid bills of the like.

但请记住，当你所面临的商业监管越来越少时——这正是我们目前的情况——你会看到企业增加支出和扩张。

But remember, when you're facing less and less regulation in your business, which is what we're facing right now, you're going to see businesses spend and grow.

阻碍经济的是关税，而特朗普正稳稳地坐在其中。

The thing that's standing in the way is tariffs, and Trump is fat right fat in the middle of it.

但你说得对。

But you're right.

这仅仅是虚假的草根运动吗？

Is it just astroturf?

因为卡拉经常谈到这一点。

Because Kara talks about this all the time.

当你看那七大巨头公司——那些不受影响、反而受益于人工智能的大科技公司，它们并未受到大规模驱逐移民的影响——但当你深入查看时，许多这些公司其实正在挣扎。

When you look under the magnificent seven, under those big giant tech companies that aren't getting hurt, they're being helped by AI, they aren't getting hurt by mass deportations, when you look under there, lots of those companies are struggling.

如果消费者没有钱消费，或者他们花的钱购买力下降了，也就是说，只有富裕的消费者才有能力消费，这说明经济很脆弱，而此刻掌握方向盘的人是唐纳德·特朗普，我们且看他接下来会怎么做。

And if consumers don't have the money to spend or the money that they're spending doesn't go so far So only rich consumers are point is it's a fragile economy, and the person who has his hands on the steering wheel is Donald Trump, and let's see what he does.

那么，你认为对他而言最好的情况和最坏的情况分别会是什么？

So what do you what do you imagine being the best case for him and the worst?

我实际上认为，对他而言最好的情况是关税被裁定为非法。

I actually think the best case for him would be if the tariffs were to be ruled, illegal.

那将是他最体面的退场方式。

That would be his most graceful exit.

他可以说，我想让美国再次伟大。

He could say, I wanted to make America great.

我想把制造业带回美国，但他们不让我这么做。

I wanted to bring manufacturing back, but they wouldn't let me.

公司会说，太好了。

Companies would say, great.

我们不必面对这些关税。

We're not having to face these tariffs.

好日子又回来了。

Happy days are here again.

我不认为这会发生，或者即使发生也会一团糟。

I don't think that's going to happen, or it's going to be super messy.

我们很快就会知道。

We'll soon find out.

对吧？

Right?

特朗普是第一个说市场就是经济的人。

Trump is the first to say the market is the economy.

其实不是。

It's not.

市场表现非常好。

The market has done very well.

它本可以表现得更好。

It could do even better.

但在那背后，当毕业生找不到工作、我们的

But under that, what is the world gonna look like when kids coming out college can't get jobs when our

医疗成本正在造成伤害时，世界会变成什么样？

health care costs are hurting?

为了说明。

For saying.

其中一件事是，我们昨天在找睡衣，值得注意的是，商品更少了，更难找到，而且更贵了。

One of the things is we were looking for pajamas yesterday for something, and one of the things that's noticeable is there's fewer items harder to find and more expensive.

即使你不知道，但现在每个商店都能明显感觉到。

Even if you're you know, it was kind of no it's noticeable in every store now.

这是在线还是线下？不是。

Was this online or in No.

是线下的。

Was offline.

它就是

It was

在实体店里。

in offline.

很明显，卡拉。

Noticeable, Kara.

大多数人购物就是这样。

That's like That's how most people shop.

大的变得更大，小的变得更小。

Noticeable is the big have gotten bigger, and the smaller getting smaller.

小型和中型企业无法承受关税。

Small and biz sized businesses could not survive tariffs.

如果你是一家大公司，你可以提前囤货。

If you're a giant company, you could front load your inventory.

你可以

You could

下调。

down.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你在乔治城经营一家小企业，卖玩具、书籍和睡衣，你无法承受这样的冲击。

If you're a small business in Georgetown and you're selling toys and books and pajamas, you can't weather storms like this.

这是塔吉特。

This was Target.

我能说一句吗？

Can I I just wanna say this?