索菲·奥克妮多

感谢您下载Profile节目。本周，马克·科尔斯将带您了解一位备受追捧的英国女演员的生活与职业生涯。

Thank you for downloading Profile. This week, Mark Coles looks at the life and career of a much in demand British actress.

她很坚强。她是个单亲妈妈。她很有胆识。她太棒了。如果没有像苏菲这样的人，像我这样的人就没法谋生了。

She's tough. She's a single mother. She got balls. She's great. If there weren't people like Sophie, people like me wouldn't have a living.

她总是出人意料，她的选择往往超乎常人预料。我认为这正是她作品的迷人之处。

She is always unpredictable and her choices are not necessarily what one would expect. That I think is what's so delicious about her work really.

这几乎像是她天生就该做这行。表演是刻在她骨子里的。

It almost feels like she was born to do it. It's in her bones.

我是和Ketrel一起长大的。我用这种简单的方式解决问题。

I grew up with Ketrel. I solve problems in this simple way.

在美国，英国女演员苏菲·奥康内多是个大名鼎鼎的人物。她曾获得美国戏剧最高奖项托尼奖，与丹泽尔·华盛顿和金·凯瑞同台演出，获得过奥斯卡和金球奖提名。甚至连美国总统都是她的粉丝——巴拉克·奥巴马曾突然造访她的化妆间称赞她。

In The US, the British actress Sophie Okonedo is a big name. She's won a Tony, America's top theater award, starred alongside Denzel Washington and Jim Carrey, been nominated for both an Oscar and a Golden Globe. Even the US president is a fan. Barack Obama popping into her dressing room to praise her.

我立刻收到了短信。是她和奥巴马在一起的视频。没有什么能比这更令人惊叹的了。

I got the text straight away. It was a video of her with Obama. There's nothing you can say to better that.

尽管如此，在国内，来自北伦敦的犹太裔尼日利亚裔英国人索菲·奥克内多仍然相对不为人知，不过这种情况可能不会持续太久了。

Despite that, back home, Sophie Okonedo, a Jewish Nigerian Brit from North London, is relatively unknown, though possibly not for much longer.

在某种程度上，她仍然是一个被保守得很好的秘密，我认为这种情况即将改变。

She's a well kept secret still in some ways, and I think that's about to change.

我为人们辩护。我的整个职业生涯都在接手那些报酬微薄的案子。你为什么觉得我会想当公诉署署长呢？

I defend people. I spent my entire career taking on the statement that pays badly. Why do you think in a million years I want to be director of public prosecutions?

本周末，由彼得·莫菲特编剧的BBC黄金时段新剧《卧底》开播，索菲·奥克内多在剧中饰演一位斗志昂扬的律师，她即将成为英国首位黑人公诉署署长。

This weekend sees the start of Undercover, a new prime time BBC TV crime drama written by Peter Moffitt in which Sophie Okonedo plays a feisty barrister on the verge of becoming Britain's first ever black director of public prosecutions.

《卧底》涉及很多主题。它关乎死囚区，关乎警方拘留期间的死亡事件，关乎卧底警察，也关乎像劳伦斯调查这样的事件。

Undercover is about a lot of things. It's about death row. It's about deaths in police custody. It's about undercover police officers. It's about things like the Lawrence inquiry.

我希望这是一部严肃、沉重又刺激的电视剧。但它也涉及头发和护发产品。索菲在确保这一点准确无误方面对我至关重要，她让编剧在描写黑人女性头发时能真正理解自己在写什么。

It's serious and heavy and thrilling, I hope, television. But it's also about hair and hair products. And Sophie was absolutely invaluable to me in getting that right and make sure the writer bloody well understands what he's writing about when he's writing about black women's hair.

稍后再详细说说头发的事。索菲·奥克内多于1968年8月出生于伦敦，母亲琼是一名美发师和普拉提教练，父亲亨利是尼日利亚政府工作人员，在索菲五岁时离开返回尼日利亚。电影记者莉兹·霍格德报道。

More about the hair in a minute. Sophie Okonedo was born in London in August 1968 to mum Joan, a hairdresser and pilates instructor, and dad Henry, a Nigerian government worker who left to return to Nigeria when Sophie was five years old. The film journalist Liz Hoggard.

她的父母在她童年早期就分开了。她在伦敦北部一个相当艰苦的工人阶级社区长大。她的母亲是白人犹太裔。我认为她会说自己拥有这种双重文化背景。

Her parents had split up very early in her childhood. She'd been brought up on quite a gritty, working class North London estate. Her mother's white Jewish. And I think she would say that she's got that dual heritage.

戏剧导演多米尼克·库克与索菲已相识三十多年。他还是她女儿的教父。

The theatre director Dominic Cook has been friends with Sophie for more than thirty years. He's also godfather to her daughter.

索菲的母亲对她非常重要，深度参与她的生活。她并非在宗教氛围浓厚的环境中长大，但文化层面的犹太影响确实很重要——那种人文主义精神和幽默感。她与犹太裔祖父母关系非常亲密。可以说，作为在白人家庭长大的黑人，这彻底塑造了她，赋予了她旁观者的世界观，这对她作为艺术家产生了深远影响。

Sophie's mom is very important to her, she's very involved in her life. She's not been brought up in a very religious background, but kind of culturally, the Jewish influence, I think, is really important. The kind of humanism, the humor. And she had a very close relationship with her Jewish grandparents. I think it's true to say that being a black person growing up in a white family has absolutely shaped her and has given her an outsider's view on the world, which I think has really affected her as an artist.

16岁时她辍学到伦敦波多贝罗市场的服装摊工作，大约就在那时多米尼克第一次遇见她。

At 16, she dropped out of school and went to work on a clothing stall at London's Portobello Market, which is around the time Dominic first met her.

我对她的视觉印象比初次对话更深刻。1984年我在瑞士小屋图书馆复习A-level考试时，看到这位极其美丽的洛卡比里风格少女——金色大背头配大圈耳环，穿着红色缎面飞行员夹克和蓝白格纹A字裙，造型冲击力非常强。

I remember seeing her better than I remember actually our first words. And I was revising for my A levels at Swiss Cottage Library in 1984. And there was this incredibly beautiful young woman who was a rockabilly. And she had a big blondish quiff with large hooped earrings, a red satin bomber jacket and an A line skirt which was made of blue and white gingham. So she made a really strong visual impression.

洛卡比里风格？她对音乐很认真吗？

A rockabilly, she was serious about her music?

是的。她吉舞跳得特别好，之后我们很快开始一起泡夜店。经常结伴去名叫'天堂'的俱乐部，那是家同志酒吧。

Yeah. She was a really good jiver And we started clubbing soon after that. Started going out a lot together. We went to this club called Heaven. They used to do it's a gay club.

他们过去会举办混合之夜，那种很酷的派对。她去洗手间，结果离开了大概二十分钟。我心想，她去哪了？结果她回来时竟然手牵着手和乔治·迈克尔一起，那时候他几乎是世界上最大的流行巨星。

They used to do mixed nights, were the kind of cool nights. And she went off to the loo and she was gone for like twenty minutes. And I was like, where has she gone? And she came back literally holding hands with George Michael, who at that time was the biggest pop star practically in the world.

有人记得《年轻枪手》吗？她是威猛乐队的粉丝？我不这么认为。

Young Guns, anyone? She a Wham fan? I don't think so.

不算特别迷。她有点太酷了，不会那样。

Not particularly. She's bit too cool for that.

呼。当她不在跳舞或精心打理她的飞机头时，她正忙着尝试进入演艺圈。在参加了小说家哈尼夫·库雷希主持的写作工作坊短暂试水后，她参加了皇家戏剧艺术学院的试镜并获得了奖学金。鲁弗斯·诺里斯当时是她在RADA的同学，现在是国家剧院的艺术总监。

Phew. When she wasn't dancing or fine tuning her quiff, she was busy trying to get into acting. After a brief tryout on a writing workshop run by the novelist Hanif Qureshi, she auditioned for the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts and won a scholarship. Rufus Norris was a fellow Rada student back then and now artistic director of the National Theatre.

我对她的最初记忆其实是在休息室里。我们可以聚在一起抽烟。她当时非常放松，当然，也极其美丽。所以在这个群体中，她非常非常悠闲、随和、非常迷人，有点风趣、机智，还有点慵懒。她从最开始就真的很引人注目。

My first memory of her actually is in the green room. We could sort of hang out and smoke fags. And she was just completely chilled, actually, and, of course, fantastically beautiful. So this very, very relaxed, easygoing, very gorgeous in that group who was sort of funny and quite witty and sort of quite languid. She was quite a head turner, really, from the beginning.

从RADA毕业后，她转向了戏剧界，加入了伦敦皇家宫廷剧院和皇家莎士比亚剧团，在那里女演员阿杜阿·安多第一次遇到了她。她将她视为黑人女演员的榜样。

After Radha, she gravitated to theater, London's Royal Court and the Royal Shakespeare Company, where fellow actress Adua Ando first met her. She regards her as a role model for black actresses.

我记得多年前在广播里扮演《雾都孤儿》的南希时就在想，这就是我喜欢广播的原因，因为谁会选一个黑人女演员来演呢？几年后，时代进步了，索菲在电视上搭档安迪·瑟金斯出演了《雾都孤儿》的南希。她开辟了一条纯粹依靠自身天赋的道路。她绝不墨守成规，这意味着黑人女演员有潜力演绎任何角色，而索菲某种程度上打开了那扇门。我认为她是一位开路者。

I remember playing Nancy in Oliver Twist on the radio years ago and thinking, this is why I love radio, because who would ever cast a black actress? Bosch moved forward a few years, and there's Sophie playing Nancy in Oliver Twist on the telly with Andy Serkis. She carves a path that is purely about the gift she brings to the part. She is not stereotypical in any way and that means that black actresses can have the potential to do anything with the part they play And Sophie sort of opens that door. I think she's a door opener.

据多米尼克·库克所说，不止一种方式。

In more than one way, according to Dominic Cook.

我们在埃文河畔斯特拉特福合租了一间房子。我当时是助理导演，而她那时是皇家莎士比亚剧团里一名相当初级的演员。

We shared a house in Stratford Upon Avon. I was an assistant director, and she was a fairly junior actor in the RSC at that time.

是个好室友吗？

A good flatmate?

是的。她确实有让前门开着、炉火不关的习惯。但除此之外，她非常棒。她是个很好的伙伴。

Yes. She did have the habit of leaving the front door open and the fire on. But other than that, she was great. She was great company.

但悲剧给了她第一个重大突破。索菲在特雷弗·纳恩1999年广受好评的莎士比亚剧《特洛伊罗斯与克瑞西达》改编作品中饰演克瑞西达，随后又在2002年BBC电影《肮脏甜蜜的事》中饰演一名黑人妓女朱丽叶。

But it was tragedy that gave her her first big break. Sophie playing Cressida in Trevor Nunn's acclaimed 1999 adaptation of Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida, followed by Juliet, a black prostitute in the 2002 BBC films production, Dirty Pretty Things.

哦，我这双忧郁的脚。幸好我不想站起来。什么？嗯，另一个混蛋就是你来的地方。

Oh, my glooming feet. Lucky I don't want standing up. What? Well, the other fuck is where you come from.

她认为这部电影开启了她从未真正预料到的职业生涯。该片导演是斯蒂芬·弗里斯。

A film she credits with launching the career she never really expected to have. Its director, Stephen Friess.

我有点不好意思。说实话，能找到那么优秀的演员是你的幸运。我很幸运能有她。听着，她是真材实料，但她确实欠我一切。

I'm slightly embarrassed. I suppose the truth is you're lucky when you find actors that good. I was lucky to have her. Listen. She's the real thing, but she does owe me everything.

尽管他回忆并非所有人都赞同他的选角决定。

Though he recalls not everyone approved of his casting.

哈尼夫·库雷希对我说，你不能选索菲·奥科内多演一个黑人妓女。我告诉了索菲。她说，你去告诉那个哈努卡雷希，我要演这个角色。这就是决心。你可以用这个。

Hanif Qureshi said to me, you can't cast Sophie Okoneda as a black prostitute. I told Sophie. She said, you tell that Hanukkahreshi to and play this part. So it's determination. You're allowed to use that.

不。

No.

《肮脏的美事》之后，剧本如潮水般涌来。在2004年的狮门影业电影《卢旺达饭店》中，她饰演了饭店老板保罗·鲁塞萨巴吉纳的妻子塔蒂亚娜，在卢旺达大屠杀期间，他们帮助拯救了数百人的生命。

After Dirty Pretty Things, the scripts came flooding in. In the 2004 Lions Gate film, Hotel Rwanda, she played Tassiana, the wife of hotel owner Paul Russobeginer, who, during the country's genocide, helped save hundreds of lives.

对不起。我的哥哥和他的家人，你找到他们了吗？我到了那所房子，但里面空无一人。空的？房子被洗劫一空了。

I'm sorry. My brother and his family, did did you find them? I made it to the house, but it was empty. Empty? It had been ransacked.

但是我的哥哥和他的妻子，那位老妇人知道他们的下落吗？

But my brother and his wife, did the old lady know of them?

这个角色为她赢得了奥斯卡最佳女配角提名。索菲和她妈妈在伦敦一家美术馆参观时听到了这个消息。莉兹·霍加特继续讲述这个故事。

The role won her a best supporting actress Oscar nomination. Sophie and her mom visiting a London art gallery when they heard the news. Liz Hoggart takes up the story.

电话响了。她们听说她获得了提名，是她的公关打来的，她们高兴得跳了起来，结果被美术馆的一名管理员训斥了。据说她母亲当时说，我才不管呢，我女儿获得了奥斯卡提名。当她们被护送离开美术馆时，里面的所有人都自发地鼓起掌来。

The phone went off. And they heard that she got a nomination, it was her publicist, they jumped in the air for joy, and they were told off by one of the keepers of the gallery. And the mother supposedly said, I don't give a my daughter's got an Oscar nomination. And as they were escorted out of the gallery, there was a spontaneous round of applause from all the people in there.

对鲁弗斯·诺里斯来说，《卢旺达饭店》仍然是索菲·奥科内多至今最出色的表演。

For Rufus Norris, Hotel Rwanda remains Sophie Okonedo's finest performance to date.

她有一种非常非常自然的连接力。我不知道这是否与她童年的经历或她小时候情感上较为艰难的时期有关。但她确实拥有那种感染力。

She just has a very, very natural connection. Now whether that's to do with her childhood or an emotionally kind of challenging time when she was a kid, I I don't know. But she's got that access.

随后在电影和电视领域取得了更多成功：《海啸之后》、《刑事司法》、《曼德拉夫人》。她参演了电视剧《神秘博士》，甚至获得了英帝国勋章。然后在2014年，她在百老汇首次登台，与丹泽尔·华盛顿共同主演了洛林·汉斯伯里《阳光下的葡萄干》的改编作品，这是百老汇历史上首部由黑人女性创作的戏剧。

More film and TV success followed. Tsunami, The Aftermath, Criminal Justice, Mrs. Mandela. There were parts in TV's Doctor Who, even an OBE. Then in 2014, she made her Broadway debut, starring alongside Denzel Washington in an adaptation of Lorraine Hansberry's A Raisin in the Sun, the first play by a black woman ever staged on Broadway.

吃你的鸡蛋。它们要凉了。

Eat your eggs. They're gonna get cold.

彼得，男人说我有梦想。女人说吃你的鸡蛋。

Peter, man say I got me a dream. Woman say eat your egg.

这为她赢得了托尼奖。索菲激动不已。

It won her a Tony award. Sophie overwhelmed.

感谢斯科特·鲁丁把我带到这里，并以某种远见认为一个犹太裔尼日利亚英国人可以跨越大洋，来扮演美国最具标志性的角色之一。

Thank you to Scott Rudin who brought me over here and somehow had the vision that a a Jewish Nigerian Brit could come over the could come over the pond and play one of America's most iconic parts.

像许多其他英国黑人演员一样，索菲·奥科内多不得不去美国闯出名堂，国家剧院的鲁弗斯·诺里斯称这是对英国戏剧的一种严厉控诉。

Like many other black British actors, Sophie Okonedo has had to go to The US to make her name, which says The National's Rufus Norris is a damning indictment of British drama.

嗯，这是一个可悲的事实，无论你怎么看待美国和这个国家的多样性政治，就表演行业而言，那里的玻璃天花板要高得多。确实如此。你知道，恐怕每个月我的一位非常好的演员朋友，碰巧是非裔，就会请我写封信支持他们申请临时绿卡之类的，因为那里的机会要多得多。

Well, it's one of the sad truths that whatever you think about diversity politics in America and in this country, in terms of the acting profession, the glass ceiling is a lot higher there. It just is. You know, I'm afraid every month one of my very good actor mates who happens to be the AME will ask me to write a letter support their application for a temporary green card or whatever it is because the opportunities there are so much greater.

卧底作家彼得·莫福德表示同意。

Undercover writer Peter Mofford agrees.

我真的不太愿意多想或多谈这件事，因为索菲是一位非常、非常出色的演员，她的肤色与此真的无关。这一点我非常清楚。她唯一一次向我提及此事，是在片场的一天，她拍完一场重头戏之后，那场戏出现在第六集，也就是本季的最后一集。她在华盛顿向最高法院陈述。在那非常艰难的一天结束时，她走过来对我说，接下来发生的事情是，白人演员上场拯救所有人，并告诉我们故事的寓意是什么。

I really don't wanna think about it or talk about it that much because Sophie is a brilliant, brilliant actor, and her skin color really isn't relevant to that. And that's super clear to me. And it was the one mention that she really made of it to me, was on set one day after a big, big scene that she has, which comes right at the end in episode six, the last episode of the series. She's addressing the Supreme Court in Washington. At the end of that really tough day, she came up to me and said, and now what happens is that the white actor comes on and saves everybody and tells us what the moral of the story is.

对吧？只是，哦，不。他没有。这次，是我。而她对于在英国乃至全世界作为一名黑人演员的感受，确实在某种程度上反映了我们目前的处境。

Okay? Only, oh, no. He doesn't. This time, it's me. And the fact that she feels that about what it is to be a black actor in Britain or in the world indeed is a bit of an indictment of where we're at.

事实上，当《卧底》本周末在英国电视上播出时，索菲将在数千英里外的纽约舞台上，主演亚瑟·米勒的新百老汇作品《萨勒姆的女巫》。导演伊沃·范·霍夫通过手机向我们解释了为何选择索菲——一位英国黑人演员——来饰演美国白人家庭主妇伊丽莎白·普罗克托的角色。

In fact, when Undercover begins its British TV run this weekend, Sophie will be several thousand miles away on stage in New York, starring in a new Broadway production of Arthur Miller's The Crucible. Talking to us on his mobile phone, director Ivo van Hove explained why he had cast Sophie, a black Brit, to play the role of white American housewife, Elizabeth Proctor.

我想创作一部关于现代社群的现代作品。如今每个现代社群都是由不同人群组成的。我们试图将亚瑟·米勒的《萨勒姆的女巫》带入二十一世纪。

I wanted to make a modern production about the modern community. So every modern community is a mixture of people these days. We try to bring, the Artie Miller, The Crucible into the twenty first century.

因为在英国，有很多关于黑人演员无法在重要作品中获得角色的讨论和争议。您似乎暗示在美国情况不同，是这样吗？

Because in England, there's a lot of conversation, a lot of discussion about black actors and actresses not getting parts in in major productions. You seem to suggest it it it's different in The States, is it?

至今我在纽约已经执导了10部作品。对我来说，让黑人演员扮演通常为白人所设的角色是非常正常的。

I did by now 10 productions in New York. For me, it's very normal to cast black people play roles that are normally meant for Caucasian.

女演员阿杜阿·安多。

The actress Adua Ando.

索菲，我认为她作为一名演员非常独特、有趣且令人信服，我觉得人们会愿意冒险让黑人女演员担任他们之前可能不愿考虑的职位。因此我认为，索菲在这方面起到了推动作用。

Sophie, because I think she's so particular as an actress and so interesting and so convincing, I think people will take a punt on putting a black actress in places that they may not have wanted to do before. So I think in that way, Sophie enables.

在BBC电视台改编自三部莎士比亚戏剧的《空王冠》中，索菲饰演同样为白人的玛格丽特王后。她的朋友多米尼克·库克是该剧的导演。

In The Hollow Crown, BBC TV's adaptation of three Shakespeare plays, Sophie plays Queen Margaret, also a white woman. Her friend, Dominic Cook, is the director.

我认为她真的有一种强烈的冲动去做这件事。我觉得她之所以觉得困难，是因为她把自己置于风口浪尖。我的意思是，我们刚刚完成了《空王冠》三部曲，她在其中饰演玛格丽特王后。这是一个非常需要投入的角色，但她真的做到了。所以对她来说，这几乎像是一种使命召唤。

She really feels, I think, a compulsion to do it. I think she finds it difficult to do because she puts herself on the line. I mean, we've we've just done, you know, this Hollow Crown three part series, and she's playing Queen Margaret. And it's such a visceral role, but she really goes there. So for her, I think it's a it's almost like a calling.

《卧底》、《炼狱》，还有即将在五月登陆电视的新一季《空王冠》。索菲·奥克尼多的身影似乎无处不在。那么接下来呢？又是阿迪亚·安多。

Undercover, The Crucible, the new series of Hollow Crown coming to TV in May. It seems you can't move for Sophie Okonedo at the moment. So what comes next? Adya Ando again.

我很想看到索菲出演易卜生的作品。索菲就是娜拉。你能想象那种脆弱、挫败感以及渴望拓展视野的 yearning 吗？我认为她会表现得非常惊艳。

I would love to see Sophie in an Ibsen. Sophie is Nora. Can you imagine the vulnerability frustration and the yearning to expand your horizons? I think she would be absolutely stunning.

回到国家剧院，鲁弗斯·诺里斯正在酝酿一个计划，试图邀请她来这里，不仅在美国，也在英国本土庆祝她的才华。

Back at The National, Rufus Norris is hatching a plan to try to bring her there, to celebrate her talents not just in America, but here in Britain too.

这里有一个我们非常想请她来演的角色，但我不能透露细节。

There is a role that we really want to get her for here to do, but I can't tell you about that.

她说她想做一些

She said she wants to do some of

哦，真的吗？她说了？嗯，这很有趣。不，不是那样，但这很有意思。

Oh, really? Does she? Well, that's interesting. No. It's not, But that's interesting.

我会记住这一点。有一部经典作品，我认为让她在这里表演会非常棒。我希望在十年后或任何时候回首时，能知道她已成为国家剧院文化的一部分，因为这里才是她应该待的地方。

I'll bear that in mind. There's a classic that I think it would be great to get her to do here. I'd love to look back in ten years or whatever and and know that she's been part of the National Theatre's culture because this is where she should be.

人物简介由马克·科尔斯呈现。制作人是斯米塔·帕特尔。

Profile was presented by Mark Coles. The producer was Smita Patel.