隔间同事的灵魂伴侣

讨论让世界运转不息。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌会议。您正在收听的是圆桌会议节目。我是史蒂夫，今天与玉顺和玉山一起主持。接下来，别再刷约会软件了——你人生中最稳固的关系可能就来自隔壁工位的同事。

This is roundtable. You're listening to roundtable. I'm Steve joined today by Yushun and Yushan. And coming up, forget swiping right. The most stable relationship of your life might be with the person in the next cubicle.

他们见过你最糟糕的PPT演示，也见证过你怀疑人生的时刻：这工作真的适合我吗？其实职场的真正意义除了工作本身，或许还在于找到柏拉图式的终身挚友。既然他们如此了解你，自然会与你长久相伴。这很合理吧？

They've seen your worst PowerPoint presentation. They've also seen your existential dread wondering, is this the job for me? Well, the real purpose of the workplace might be your work, yes, but it might also be to find your platonic lifetime bestie. And if they know that much about you, they're gonna stay with you for a long time. Makes sense.

对吧？接下来我们要聊的是：人人都爱盐，但过量摄入可能正悄然危害健康。当你吃盐时身体究竟会发生什么？改善健康的关键是少吃盐，还是多吃其他东西？

Right? And then after that, we all love salt, but too much can be silently hurting our health. What really happens when you eat it? What goes on inside your body? And is the secret to better health eating less of it or actually eating more of something else?

我们有些令人惊讶的发现。听众可在苹果播客搜索《圆桌中国》关注我们。也欢迎您通过语音留言分享对节目话题的看法。联系方式是：圆桌播客@qq.com

We have some info that might surprise you. Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget, we love hearing from you too. So send your voice notes our way with any of the thoughts that you may have on any of the issues that we have here on the program. Here's how you get in touch roundtable podcast at qq.com.

再重复一遍：圆桌播客@qq.com。您是否想过，人生中最持久稳固的关系或许不是刷来的灵魂伴侣，而是与你同天入职的同事？我们称之为「职场发小」——他们见证过你最糟糕的汇报、客户会议前的紧张时刻、办公室里的首次失误，还有刚才提到的等待第一次升职时的存在主义焦虑。正如某篇爆款评论所言，在职场新人炼狱中缔结的羁绊，如今比现代婚姻更经得起考验。

One more time roundtable podcast at qq.com. And now, have you ever thought about what if the most stable enduring relationship you'll ever have is not with a soul mate that you swiped right on, but with the colleague who started the same day as you at the company. We're talking about the workplace childhood friend. That person who saw you through your worst of presentations, your most nervous times before your big client meetings, the first time you messed up in the office, and also that ex existential dread that I mentioned just a moment ago when you were waiting for your first promotion. As one viral piece of commentary suggested, these bonds forged in the fires of entry level despair are now proving to be more resilient than modern marriages.

在这个「工作生活平衡」沦为笑谈的时代，职场的终极意义是否在于寻找柏拉图式的人生伴侣？这可能吗？接下来我们将通过真实故事探讨这种可能性。

In an era where work life balance is just a joke, well, is the true purpose of the workplace actually finding your platonic lifetime partner? Is it possible or is it not? We're gonna share or we're gonna hear about some stories here that maybe prove that it can be true.

是的。说实话，其中一些想法我觉得非常非常有趣，甚至有点可爱。而且我还得用中文解释一下，因为当我们谈论这些职场发小时，中文里称之为'噢'。简单来说，我们叫它'职场最佳拍档'或'工作伙伴'。

Yeah. And, some of these, ideas I found really really interesting and a little bit cute to be honest. And I have to explain it also in Chinese because when we're talking about these workplace childhood friend, what we call it, in Chinese called Oh. And shortly, we call it work best ie or work buddy.

是的。英语中的'childhood'在这里指的是从你们一起共事开始的时期。对，不是你实际意义上的童年。

Yeah. And childhood in the English term means like from the time you started the work together. Yes. Not your actual childhood.

不是，不是在这个情况下。

Not not in this case.

不，对的。

No. Right.

是的。从这个意义上说，我认为它更清晰，因为这个术语特指那些年轻人初入职场时遇到的同事，可能是毕业后或同一批进入公司的人。他们通常是同期入职、同批被录用或在初期一起共事的同事。那段时期能锻造出非常牢固的关系、友谊或同事情谊。

Yeah. So in that sense, I think it's a clearer, you know, because actually this term specifically refer to colleagues whom, you know, young people meet when they first enter the workplace after maybe graduation or they just a same batch of people getting to that company. So they are typically colleagues who joined the same company at the same time, were hired in the same batch or worked together during that initial period. And that period of time can forge a very, very solid relationship, friendship, or colleague ship.

是的。而且不仅限于我们这一代，比如我和雨顺，因为我们差不多是同期入职的。当时有十几个人同时加入这个组织，我相对其他人晚一些。所以我把每个人都视为我的职场最佳拍档，因为'噢'。

Yeah. And and it's not just among, say, our generation between, me and Yushun because we kind of entered in around the same time. And back then, there were a dozen of us joining this organization at the same time. I was relatively later than everybody else. So I see everybody as my workplace bestie because Oh.

你比雨山早很多开始在这里工作吗？

Much earlier did you start here before Yushan did? Should

我们几乎是同一批的。哦，真的吗？我们只是

We're almost the same batch. Oh, really? We're just

大概一两个月？

Around a month or two?

是啊。哦，才一两个月吗？

Yeah. Oh, just a month or two?

没错。但我觉得这特别有意思，因为就像我说的，不仅是我们这代人会把职场同事视为最佳拍档，就像学生时代同班同学那样。我还问过我父母，甚至更早一辈的人，他们也提到如果是几十年前同一批进厂的工人，比如我祖父母那辈，虽然大家来自中国各地，之前互不相识，但在同一个工厂工作后就会形成这种关系。

Yeah. Okay. But, yeah, that's just something that I found so interesting because, like I mentioned, it's not only with our generation that we see each other as bestie at workplace similar to how we grew up like in as in classmates in the same sick class. But also I was asking my parents, if not the earlier generation, they also mentioned that if it's the same batch of, say, back to several decades ago, if it's my grandparents who moved to one factory as workers and worked together there. And even though all of the workers there, the young people back then come from all over China, all work in the same place and they had no knowledge of each other before working together.

嗯。他们就是能感受到彼此间的默契

Mhmm. They just feel this alignment between each other

是啊。

Yeah.

确实。并在共事中建立起友谊和羁绊。所以我想这也算职场最佳拍档吧，不过用现在的话说，更多是对同龄同事的一种可爱昵称。可以这么说吧。

Sure. And build that friendship and bond while working there. So I I guess that qualifies as workplace bestie as well, but in today's term, it's more of a just a cute nickname we give to colleagues of the same age Yeah. Let's say.

是的。我想你提到的某些共同特征之一可能是年龄相仿。嗯，我认为这可以作为一种建立联系的开端。

Yeah. So I guess some of the you mentioned it kind of the one of the shared characteristics would be a similar age Mhmm. I suppose, and that would be kind of a kind of a starting place for the for the bonding to begin maybe.

你们必须拥有那种能在同龄人之间产生的共同兴趣或话题，这对职场伙伴或挚友来说是非常具体且重要的特质。而且他们会互相陪伴度过那些最困惑无助的时刻——当你作为新人刚进入公司时，面对全新环境可能会感到相当有挑战性甚至有些沮丧。而这时有个朋友在身边分享相同感受，就能帮助你们建立起可能持续很久的深厚关系，甚至延续到有人离职之后。

You'll have to have that kind of common interests or conversation that you can have between that age group so that it could be a very, very specific and important characteristic for these workplace buddies or besties. And also they accompany each other through that kind of most confusing and helpless faces because when you entering that company as a freshman, as a newbie, it can be quite challenging or a little bit frustrating when you're just getting into a new environment. Right? And that moment when you have a friend be with you and share the same feeling that could help you to forge a really good relationship that may even last longer and even last until you or some of them left the company.

确实。你们俩都有过这种经历吗？就是你说的那种刚入职时的无助阶段？有没有觉得'完全搞不清楚状况'？

Sure. Did you did you both have that experience? That kind of how did you refer to it? The, helpless phase when you joined here? Did you feel like, oh, I don't know what's going on.

我需要有人...你们当时也是这样吗？

I need somebody to you had that?

没错。那时候我的职场挚友是前同事Rita。我们在同一个项目组做完全相同的工作，比如撰写专题报道，有时还要配音。我们一起经历过给双方都带来巨大压力的项目。那段时期我从她身上学到很多，因为她之前有媒体工作经验，教会了我不少东西。

Yeah. Back then, my workplace bestie, let's say, is a previous colleague named Rita. And she's like, we we were in the same program doing the exact same jobs like writing, feature stories and sometimes voicing for it. And we've been through projects together that put huge pressures on both of us. And that's the time when I learned quite a lot from her because she's had media working experience before and she taught me a lot.

所以

So

哦，那一定让人感到很安心

Oh, that that must have been very comforting

对你来说。我懂。对吧？那时候她就像我的支柱和向导，在我们共事的前一两年里。确实，如果你遇到这样的人，特别是在工作初期阶段，尤其是像我们这样具有挑战性的工作时，这种感觉很棒，你会觉得自己在和那个人一起成长。

for you. I know. Right? Back then it's like she's my source of support and also guidance throughout that, first one to two years of us working together. So indeed, if you've got someone like this, it particularly at the very beginning phase of your working experience, especially when it's kind of challenging like what we do here, it's really nice and you feel like, yeah, you're growing along with that person.

但请允许我稍微刻薄一点地说，这也是一个非常

But let me just be a little bit cynical here that this is also a very

Rita做了什么？

What did Rita do?

不。从现在起和Rita没关系了。她辞职了然后...完美

No. Nothing to do with Rita from now on. She she quit the job and and and Perfect

那现在正是说她坏话的好时机。当然是开玩笑的。

time to talk smack about her then. Just teasing, of course.

她现在追求更好的学术生涯了。但我之所以刻薄地提到同事间互称职场闺蜜的阶段，特别是当你刚入职时，你们之间没有太多工作分配差异。随着时间推移，随着晋升或工作分配的变化，我不认为职场闺蜜关系能像最初那样一直维持下去。

And pursued a better, say, academic career nowadays. But me being cynical referring to the phase where two colleagues refer to each other as workplace bestie is particularly because you are entering this job and there's no like much of a, say, job assignment differentiation between you two. And as time goes by with more of the, say, I don't know, promotion or distribution of work varies between us, I wouldn't see Workplace Bestie remain as it is as how it began throughout your career.

我想我明白你的意思。对，刚开始时大家完全处在同一起跑线上。

I I think I see your point Right. That when you start, it's a totally level playing field.

对。

Right.

万物本是平等的，但任务来了又去，升职来了又去。哦，是啊。然后竞争意识，那种竞争精神或怨恨可能开始在关系中积累。

Everything is equal, but then assignments come and go, promotions come and go Oh, yeah. And then competitive, that competitive spirit or resentment might start to build up within within the relationship.

这反而表明，这段特殊时光对我们许多人而言是多么珍贵。

That in turn shows just how cherishable this particular time mean for many of us.

而且，当我们拥有这种关系时，它显得更加珍贵，因为我觉得当然，我们会经历不同任务量和升职机会的阶段。但我们仍保持着能彼此交谈的状态。但当你拥有那种能发展为职场友谊的关系时——当环境不再那么纯粹，你需要考虑很多事情时——这种情谊就显得尤为珍贵，对吧？

And, when we are having these kind of relationship, it is even more precious because I feel like, of course, we have that kind of a period of time or phases when you have different levels of assignments and maybe promotions. But we are still staying that kind of status of we can talk to each other. But that is something I think it is even more precious when you are having that kind of friendship that can be developed into a company when you are having when it is something is not that, I think, pure anymore as a as an environment then that you need to think about a lot of things. Right?

抱歉，我把话题从最初的方向带偏了。不过下次我会记得不该比你先升职。总之，是的，我理解。

So I'm sorry. I'm deviating this chat away from how it began, but I'll be reminded next time not to get a promotion before you shouldn't. Anyhow, yeah, I I understand that

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

信任与情感支持，嗯。职场挚友能从彼此身上获得的，正是这种年轻同事间相互提供的情感价值。它以提供情感共鸣的方式如此珍贵——尤其是在高压之下，让你更有动力每天去上班。

Trust and emotional support Mhmm. That workplace besties can get from one another. It's just this emotional value that that young colleagues are providing each other. It's it's so valuable in a way that it offers just emotional resonance especially under high pressure and you just have more power to go to work every

当然。是的。当你知道至少有人支持你时，这会让你在这个空间里感到舒适。

day. Sure. Yeah. It makes you makes you feel comfortable in the space when you know at least one person has your back.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？就像我之前说的，会有一些例子，而且有一些非常具体的真实案例。如果你不介意的话，分享一两个吧。

Right? So then I said before, there would be some examples and there are some very specific examples from real people. Share one or two if you don't mind.

在共同面对逆境的情况下，比如公司动荡期间加入的初级同事，他们不得不学习内部流程，同时不断受到批评，这形成了一种生死与共的联结，因为他们正在经历同样的艰难时期。之后你会意识到，哦，我们挺过来了，而且是一起挺过来的。

In, situations of like shared adversity to entry level colleagues who joined during a company shakeup had to learn like internal processes while, constantly being criticized resulting in a kind of life or death connection because they were going through the same hard time. And then after that, you will realize that, oh, we survived and we survived it together.

是的。没错。

Yeah. Right.

对，就是那种感觉。

Yeah. That kind of sentiments.

还有一对办公室密友的故事，他们性格迥异。其中一个人非常外向，嗯。而另一个则非常内向。有个外向的办公室密友的好处是，他们能为你创造一种缓冲地带，如果你...对吧。对。

There was also a story of two office besties who had differing personalities. One of the personalities, one of the people was, much more extroverted Mhmm. And then one of them was really introverted. And the benefit of having an extrovert as your office bestie is that they can create a kind of buffer zone if you're if you're Right. Right.

如果你性格较为内向，他们会保护你。在某些场合为你发声，这是来自互联网的真实故事。曾有一位基层领导为陷入困境的同事争取权益，并深夜陪伴其完成艰难任务。还有个故事是，在个人遭遇不幸时，一位同事在挚友桌上留下手写便签：世界仍年轻，一切皆有可能，正等待你的到来。

If you're more on the quiet side, they can help protect you. They can speak up for you in certain instances, and that that was a real story from the Internet. There was a a leader, a smaller leader advocated for a struggling colleague and stayed late one night to accompany them while they were crying and completing difficult assignments. There was another story of during a personal tragedy, one colleague left a handwritten sticky note on their besties desk that said the world is still young and everything will happen and it's waiting for you to arrive.

是啊。还有个特别有趣的故事，两位实习生成为挚友，后来还互相当了对方婚礼的伴郎——哇。他们共事九年期间参加了彼此多场婚礼。另一组五位同事保持亲密关系二十年，最终见证彼此在不同业务线晋升为领导。所以，我之前说的职场挚友反目成仇的情况，现实中确实有些案例不会发生。

Yeah. And here's another very interesting story of two interns becoming the best friends and also the best men in each other's weddings Wow. Weddings over a span of nine years working together. Another group of five colleagues maintained closeness for twenty years, seeing each other eventually rise to leadership positions across different business lines. So, yep, maybe what I said, the adversity of turning besties against each other in in in practical terms will not happen in some cases.

但愿如此。

Let's hope.

那我们回到这个问题：你认为需要职场挚友吗？主动寻找这样的关系是否明智？对刚步入职场的人有什么建议？

Well, let's ask that question then. I mean, do you think you need a workplace bestie? Is it a good idea to try to seek one out? What advice would you give for people entering the workforce now?

人们确实需要职场挚友，因为他们在关键职业阶段提供重要支持和认同，不仅是同事更是人生中不可替代的朋友。但我不认为这是入职公司的必备条件，而且这种关系很难达成。要知道，维持五个同事二十年的亲密关系绝非易事。

People, like, need a workplace besties because these individuals provide, like, essential support and, maybe validation during crucial career phases and making them not just colleagues, but irreplaceable friends in life. But I wouldn't say that it is a must have kind of thing when you're entering a company, and also that is a very hard thing to reach, I would say. You know, like close five colleagues for twenty years. That is not easy things to maintain, I would say. Yeah.

所以当你拥有这种同事友谊时，请珍惜它。但若没有，这也是常态。

So, when you're having this friendship or colleagues, I would say cherish it. But if you don't have it, it is just a common thing.

没错，不要强求。

Yeah. Don't try to force it.

是啊，是啊。还有一点值得注意的是，并非所有人来工作都是为了交朋友。

Yeah. Yeah. And it's also worth noting that not everybody coming to work is for making friends.

这话听起来虽然刺耳，但是

That's That sound harsh but

没错，我知道这也很真实。

Yeah. I know it's also very true.

是啊，有时候你以为对方是挚友，但实际上他们更关心的是如何比你先升职。嗯，倒不是我遇到过这种人——我上份工作可遇到太多了，但这类人确实存在。

Yeah. Sometimes people when you see them as bestie but they actually just care more about how to get a promotion before you. Yep. It's not that I've encountered these these person. I've encountered plenty of these, people from my previous work but they do exist.

这很现实，我

It's very practical I

觉得我们应该进入下一个话题了

feel like we should move on to the next topic

嗯。

Yep.

否则我们还得在这儿耗上半小时

Or we'll be here for another half an hour

但无论如何

But either way.

又开玩笑了。当然。没错。这里可以成为结交挚友的好地方。这一点毋庸置疑，但你也知道，我们今天还学到，或许有时也要学会保持警惕。

On teasing again. Sure. Yeah. It can be a great place to make a best friend. There's no doubt about that, but as you know, we also learned today, maybe learn to keep your guard up at times as well.

您正在收听《圆桌论坛》，稍后回来时，我们将探讨：多少盐才算过量？

You're listening to Roundtable, and when we come back, how much salt is too much salt?

渴望激情？想听激烈辩论吗？想从多元视角了解中国时事吗？那就锁定《圆桌论坛》，这里东西方思想碰撞，理解才是终极目标。

Looking for passion? How about fiery debate? Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives? Then tune in to roundtable, where east meets west and understanding is the goal.

盐。我超爱。你呢？我们把它撒在薯条上，投入煮面水中，连最寡淡的蔬菜也能靠它变得美味。但问题是，过量摄入这种小晶体可能以非常严重的方式悄然危害健康。

Salt. I love it. Do you love it? We sprinkle it on our french fries, we toss it into pasta water, and we use it to make even the blandest vegetables taste more yummy. But here's the catch, too much of that little crystal can quietly mess with your health in some very very big ways.

今天我们将深入探讨这种增味剂，了解少盐饮食的好处，同时也会剖析一些误区、新研究成果，甚至包括令人意外的发现——比如为什么多吃某种食物可能与少吃盐同等重要。那么开始吧。你觉得中餐属于高盐饮食吗？我想，或许不全是，嗯...但有些菜确实挺咸的。

Today, we'll dig into the flavor enhancer to look at the benefits of eating less salt, but we're also going to explore some of the myths, some of the new science, and even some surprising twists, like why eating more of one thing might be just as important as eating less salt. So, let's get into it. Would you describe Chinese food as a salty food? I guess, maybe not all of it, but Mhmm. Some of it definitely is.

是的，完全正确。你说得对。有些菜可能很咸，有时甚至在你不知不觉中悄悄变咸，因为当你加入所有这些调料和其他味道时，你可能都没意识到里面有很多盐。也许它既甜又咸，可能还带点麻和辣。

Yeah. Absolutely. And you're totally right. Some of these dishes can be salty and sometimes even quietly salty when you're not even realizing it because when you're adding all of these seasonings and with other taste of the seasonings, you may not even realize there's a lot of salt in there. And maybe it can be both sweet and salt, may may be numb and salt, spicy and salt.

当你同时品尝这些不同的风味时，你可能根本意识不到厨师放了多少盐。

And when you are having these kind of different flavors together, you may not even realize how much salt the chef has put in.

特别是在中国背景下，根据你来自哪里，食物可能会尝起来更咸。我听说，比如来自你家乡玉山的人，他们来到北京或中国东北，觉得这里的食物又油又咸，这是他们给我们贴的常见标签，不是吗？

And into under a Chinese context, in particular, depending on where you're from, the food might taste saltier. I heard that, people from your hometown, let's say for example, Yushuan, they come to Beijing or Northeastern China and found the food very oily and salt and that's like a common label they gave us or not?

是的，来自不同地区的人有不同的味蕾，对食物可能有不同的看法。嗯。但我要说，当然有些会稍微咸一点，但有些就很清淡。

Yeah. Different people from different regions have different like, taste buds and they may have different ideas on the food. Mhmm. But I would say it's not. Of course, a little bit more saltier, but some of them are just plain.

但这现在成了一种趋势，对吧？中国很多消费者更喜欢低盐、低油、低糖的食物。

But it is kind of a trend now. Right? Consumers a lot of consumers here in China are preferring foods that are lower in salt and oil and sugar.

随着这种健康饮食趋势的兴起，许多消费者现在更喜欢这种形式的食物，因此，像绝味这样的卤味零食品牌一直在挣扎，一个例子就是今年上半年，绝味食品的收入下降了超过15%。

And with this kind of rise of healthy eating trends, many consumers now prefer foods are in this kind of form and as a result, mainly for these kind of food, braised snack brands like Jue Wei have been struggling, and because one example is that in the first half of this this year, Jue Wei Foods revenue fell by more than 15%

同比。是的，所以人们现在都注意到了，对吧？我是说，盐在我们日常生活中无处不在。

year on year. Yeah. So people it's on their radar now. Right? I mean, salt is all around us in in daily life.

它存在于我们的调味料中，在酱料、酱油、鸡精和豆豉里。咸肉、腌菜、发酵蔬菜以及方便面等包装零食都含有大量钠。还有天然食材如海鲜、芹菜、茴香、茼蒿、空心菜等也都含盐。所以盐确实无处不在，但这引发了一个问题：人们现在摄入多少盐？是否过量？

It's in our seasonings, in our condiments, in soy sauce, and chicken essence, and fermented beans. It's in salted meats, and pickles, and fermented vegetables, and packaged snacks like instant noodles have a lot of sodium. Then you've got natural ingredients, seafood, celery, fennel, crown daisy, water spinach, all of those things as well. So it's really all around us all the time, but it does bring the question, how much salt are people consuming now and is it too much or is it considered a lot?

对此其实有指导标准。目前摄入量远超推荐水平，成人每日盐摄入应少于5克，约一个啤酒瓶盖的量。而实际上，中国家庭平均盐摄入约9.3克，几乎是标准的两倍。某些北方地区甚至达到每日16-18克，超标三倍多。长期高盐饮食会带来健康风险，可能增加心脏病、中风、胃病风险，甚至影响外貌导致浮肿。

There is actually a guideline on that. Currently, the intake is far above people's intake is far above the recommended level, but the guideline or the recommended level is that for adults, there should have less than five grams of salt per day. That's about a beer bottle cap, that kind of amount. And in reality, say Chinese, households for instance, the average intake of salt is about 9.3, and that's nearly doubling the guideline standard and in some northern regions it reaches sixteen to eighteen grams per day that's over triple the limit. So this of course brings a lot of health risks, if you go on with the long term high salt intake, it will, say potentially increase risks of heart disease, your body having a stroke or stomach issues, and it can even affect appearance in some cases causing puffiness

浮肿？

and Puffiness?

对，皮肤粗糙。

Yeah, rough skin.

是啊。如果深夜吃泡面

Yeah. If you eat ramen if you eat ramen late at night

哦，确实。

Oh, yeah.

第二天早上脸就会肿。

Your face is swollen the next morning.

我之前不知道这个。

I didn't know that.

是的。人们都这么说。我们知道减少盐分摄入的好处，对吧？你的血压会更好，这是世界卫生组织证实过的。

Yeah. That's what people say. The benefits, we know the benefits of eating less salt. Right? Your your blood pressure is better, which is proven, you know, by the World Health Organization.

他们估计每年约有190万人的死亡与摄入过多钠盐直接相关。所以减少钠摄入肯定对你有益，但这并不代表全部事实。对吧？并不是所有盐都是有害的。

They estimate that about one point nine million deaths every year are linked directly to eating too much sodium. So cutting down on sodium is definitely good for you, but it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Right? We it it's not like all salt is bad.

没错。实际上我们每天都需要盐。钠是维持生命必需的，它能帮助神经传递信息，保持肌肉收缩，平衡细胞内外的体液。没有它，我们甚至无法生存。

Yeah. Actually, we need salt daily. Sodium is essential for life, and it helps our, like, nerves and messages, keeps our muscles contracting and balances fluids in and out of cells. And without it, we couldn't even survive.

而且盐分过少也会对健康产生反效果。当你大幅减少盐分摄入时，身体会进入类似紧急模式的状态，释放肾素等激素来保留钠，讽刺的是这反而可能升高血压或增加心脏负担。所以从某些方面来说，保持平衡比单纯减少摄入更好。

And also too little salt can backfire to your health as well. When you cut salt drastically, the body can go into what's basically an emergency mode and releases hormones like renin to just hang on to sodium and ironically, this can raise blood pressure or stress the heart. So in other ways, it's better to balance it than just taking too much

对。没错。我想分享一个有趣的小发现。

the world. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And here's the little twist that I wanted to share with you.

专家是这样说的：钠和钾就像跷跷板。解决方法除了减少盐分摄入，还可以通过多吃含钾食物来平衡，比如香蕉、土豆、豆类、菠菜和橙子。这些食物能帮助平衡如果你摄入稍多盐分的问题。所以不要完全杜绝盐分。嗯。

This is what they say. Sodium and potassium are like a seesaw. So the answer, yes, you can decrease your salt intake, but you can also balance things out with eating more potassium. Things like bananas and potatoes and beans and spinach and oranges, that helps to balance the sodium problem if you are eating a little bit too much salt. So don't eliminate it completely Mhmm.

从你的饮食来看，我想这就是关键所在，对吧？真的很有趣，我之前从不知道这个小乐趣。

From your diet. I guess that's the point. Right? Really interesting. I never knew that fun little before.

好的，今天的圆桌讨论就到这里。非常感谢你们抽出时间与我们分享。谢谢Yushin和Yushan。我是Steve，希望下次还能见到大家。

Alright. We're gonna have to leave it there for round table for today. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Thank you to Yushin and Yushan. My name is Steve and we hope to see you again next time.