解码中国“茶位费”争议

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌派。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听的是圆桌派节目。我是主持人Yoho Lin，今天与Steve和Yushan一起探讨。您是否曾因以下原因额外支付餐费？服务员小费、服务费、可能是那包全新纸巾或刚消毒餐具的费用。那么按座位收取的茶位费呢？

You're listening to Roundtable. I'm Yoho Lin, joined by Steve and Yushan. Have you ever paid extra for your meal for the following reasons? A tip for the waiter, a service fee, maybe a charge for that brand new pack of tissues or the freshly disinfected tableware. Now how about a tea per seat fee?

是的。不是按壶收费，也不是按点茶人数收费，而是按座位收费。如果在账单上看到这项收费，您会作何感想？我们将在今天的节目中讨论这个话题。随后将进入'心连心'环节，我们会听取您的语音留言和邮件，解答疑问并分享观点。

Yes. Not per pot, not per person ordering the tea, per seat. What would you think if you saw that on your bill? We are talking about this on today's show. And we'll welcome the heart to heart segment where we take your voice memos and emails, unpack your questions, and share our thoughts.

您倾诉，我们倾听。话题无分大小，重要的是您此刻心中所想。不过在开始前，我们注意到在广东省，坐下来享用一壶茶配点心是件乐事。

You talk. We listen. No topic is too big or too small. What's important is what's on your mind today. But before that, in Guangdong province, sitting down for a pot of tea with dim sum is quite the pleasure.

这包含了品茶、进食、闲谈，以及传统氛围等方方面面。而许多游客发现，账单上还多出了一项——中文直译为'茶位费'的收费。有时即便您滴茶未饮，这项费用仍会出现。这项根植于当地早茶文化的长期惯例，如今已成为网络热议的话题，涉及消费透明度和消费者权益。随着广州市考虑出台餐饮收费新规，一个问题悬而未决：

It involves sipping, eating, and chatting as well as tradition and atmosphere and everything. And as many tourists discovered, it also includes a little something extra on the bill, in Chinese, or the tea per seat fee in direct translation. That is sometimes charged even if your cup stays perfectly dry. This long standing practice rooted in the region's morning tea culture has now become a topic of online debate about transparency and consumer rights. As the city of Guangzhou considers new regulation on restaurant fees, one question lingers.

这项传统该保留还是取消？首先，这种茶位费究竟是什么？费用高吗？为何要支付？背后有什么传统渊源？

Should this tradition stay or go? So to start with, this tea or tea per seat kind of fee, what exactly is it? Is it expensive? Why are we paying for it? Any tradition behind it?

从名称来看，你可能猜到这是茶馆的一种习俗——在桌边付费点茶籽来沏茶，对吧？传统上确实如此。但如今这已演变成许多餐厅（包括点心店）按人头收取的服务费，主要流行于中国南方的广东和福建两省。

Well, by its name, you might guess that it's a tea house ritual where you you pay for seed at the table to have tea. Right? Traditionally, that's the case. But nowadays, it's becoming a service charge that diners pay per person when eating at many restaurants, dim dim sum restaurants included. They're in South China's Guangdong and Fujian provinces.

这个传统其实历史悠久，可以追溯到17世纪至20世纪初的清朝时期。哇，没错。几百年前当地小茶馆就开始这样做了。

So this tradition and this this tradition actually has a long history. It could be dated back to the Qing dynasty around the 1600 to early nineteen hundred. Wow. Yeah. A few hundred years ago when small tea houses there called or.

当时只需支付几文钱，就能获得茶水和一个歇脚处，让人们可以结伴而坐，闲谈消遣。本质上这是使用空间和品茶的基础费用。久而久之，这些茶馆习俗不仅限于收取茶费，更逐渐演变成热闹的社区中心，邀请人们前来用餐、享用点心——也就是小食，可能是包子或甜点之类的零食。

They would charge just a few coins for tea and a place to rest for whoever that wants to sit down and perhaps come with a bunch of people to chat and just to hang out. So it was basically an entry fee for using the space and also have a bit of tea to sip on. And over time, these tea house rituals become more than just charging people to drink tea, but also turning into lively community hubs inviting people to come in, to dine, to have some dim sum. By that, I mean, some little snacks. It could be buns or just sweets sweet snacks.

如今这个传统也延伸到了本地餐馆，不仅是茶馆。特别是当多人占满整张桌子时，每位顾客都需支付至少5元（不同餐馆2元起不等）的茶位费。

And nowadays, it become something that it exists in local restaurants too, not only tea houses. If you come in and especially when there's more than one people more than one person coming in with the whole table occupied, then each person kinda need to pay that tea per person fee of at least 5 yuan, 2 yuan per person. It varies depending on depending on the restaurant.

历史上人们会去茶馆喝早茶吃点心。虽然可能独自前往，但更可能在那里与人会面。作为社区中心，你可能从早晨一直待到下午——如果在那里处理公务的话。

So historically, these tea houses, you'd go for your morning tea and have some dim sum or some other snacks. Yeah. You'd go by yourself, but probably not. You'd probably meet other people there. But I guess you'd probably stay if they were like a community hub, you'd probably stay from morning until, I don't know, maybe even mid afternoon if you were doing your conducting business there or doing your work there.

从历史角度看，我多少能理解商家为何要对长时间占座的顾客收取茶位费。毕竟你占用了空间资源。

So I kind of understand from a historical point of view why the business owners would charge a seating fee if you were going to be there for a really long time. Taking you're taking up that space.

顺便说，传统上这样做是为了让人们能入座使用空间，而不必点超过1-2文钱的餐食。在当时算是很贴心的做法。

And by the way, at that time, traditionally, instead of ordering something that will be definitely more than 1 or 2 coins Mhmm. They were charging it so that people can come and can sit down, can use the space. So it was kind of a nice gesture at that time.

这就像最初的WeWork。是的。在非常奇怪的十六世纪。

It was like the original WeWork. Yes. In a very strange In the sixteen hundreds.

还有美味的方式。

And tasty way.

我原以为这是个独特的想法，实际上它起源于中国清朝时期。不过我有个问题。为什么是那个省份？为什么是广东？为什么是广州市？

I thought that was a unique idea when in fact it originated in China during the Qing dynasty. I have a question though. Why that province? Why Guangdong? Why Guangzhou City?

为什么不是中国各地都有？为什么唯独那里特别？

Why not everywhere in China? Why is it unique to there?

因为那个地区不仅是茶文化，还有点心和小吃的文化都非常活跃。人们会去那里，把它当作十六世纪的WeWork。其他地方很少有这种传统。人们不会以那种方式在社区中心消磨时间，我想这至少是部分原因导致现在这样。

Because that part of the country is the part where the tea as well as dim sum or a little bit dessert culture is so vibrant. People would go there, use that as the sixteenth century WeWork. Not too many other places have tradition. People would not spend that time in the community hub in that way, which is, I think, at least part of the reason that it's like this right now.

我想这与茶叶种植有关，茶叶加工。因为在南方可能比北方更容易种植，但这可能是另一个话题了。那么具体是怎么运作的呢？通常收费很低。

That has to do with tea growing, I guess, tea manufacturing. Because in the South, perhaps it would grow easier than it would in the North, but that's a topic for another day, perhaps. Yeah. So how does this work then? So it's usually a pretty small charge.

对吧？玉山你提到过，可能每人只需几元钱，大概相当于一瓶饮料或一杯廉价咖啡的价格。单独看不算多，但如果每个进店的人都要付，加起来就很可观了。最近争议的一个点是有时连婴儿也要收费。

Right? I think, Yushan, you mentioned it. It can just be a few yuan per person, which is roughly the the price of a of a soft drink or or a cheap cup of coffee. So it's not a really big amount on its own, but if you think about it, if it's charged to every single person who comes into that that establishment, then that price is gonna add up. And one of the points of contention these days is that the charge is applied to babies sometimes.

在某些情况下，这确实是相对常见的情况。因为最近引起大家热议的是，当外地游客前往广东地区时，随便走进一家茶馆或餐厅，结账时才发现账单上莫名其妙地增加了每人茶位费。比如今年早些时候《上海观察》报道的案例，黄女士带着13人的团体（包括5名儿童和2名婴儿）去海鲜酒楼消费了3500元（约合480美元）。

In some cases, that's relatively cases. Yeah. Because recently, I think what's got everybody talking about this is rather on a tourist site when people outside of that specific region traveled to the Canton areas and just ran into a random tea house or restaurant and discover, hey, that's a tea per person fee added to my bill without me knowing it. And some cases such as the the this one reported by Shanghai Observer earlier this year where miss Huang and her group of 13 guests, including five kids and two infants, went out for seafood and spent over 3,500 yuan. That's roughly 480 US dollars.

但结账时她发现，包括那个八个月大的婴儿在内，所有人都被收取了茶位费——尽管这个婴儿既没用餐具也没喝茶。所以我想这就是争议的...

But when she checked out the bill, she discovered that they're they were being charged of t and c fees or t per seat fees for everybody. Even the eight month old baby, that infant included, despite the fact that he didn't even use the tableware or drink tea at all. So I guess that's where the

争议的根源所在

controversy comes in one of the seats Or

可能这只是服务员图省事的做法。他们机械地按人头计算，因为这对他们来说是常规操作——这引出了我的下一个问题：我们都知道小费有不同形式，比如服务费是按消费总额的百分比收取的。

maybe that's just some lazy practice by the waiter. Counted how many people go in, and they didn't actually think about it because it's a very common practice for them, which leads to my next question. We all know that there are different types of tips. There are service fee, and it's also about the total amount of money you spend. It's a percentage, and they all exist.

但这种按座位收取茶位费的做法在其他国家和文化中是否存在呢？

But does this tea per seat kind of fee also exist in other cultures and other countries, or this kind of fee? Does Yeah.

以洛杉矶为例，虽然情况不完全相同，但涉及到小费文化。现在普遍存在平板电脑强制索要小费的现象——比如在餐厅用餐后，他们会把平板递过来让你选择15%、18%或20%的小费比例。但有新闻主播爆料，他在便利店买了一瓶水，自助结账时竟也出现小费选项，让他愤怒质问：'我连店员都没见到，这小费要给谁？'

You can find examples in LA, for example, this isn't this isn't the exact same, but it's just about tipping tipping in tipping, excuse me, in general. The tablet based tipping where after a meal Yeah. They'll shove a tablet in your face and you have three different options, which is fine if you've had a meal at a restaurant, but I was watching a news report where the anchor the anchor this happened to the news anchor. They went to a store, they bought a bottle of water, and they went to a self checkout. And when they paid for the self checkout, they were encountered by a tipping option of fifteen, eighteen, or 20% for the purchase of one bottle of water, and the anchor was so upset saying, I didn't even encounter a human being in that store.

而在伦敦，有家高档餐厅因为位于顶楼能俯瞰圣保罗大教堂和碎片大厦，竟对靠窗座位额外收取15英镑的'观景费'。

Who who am I tipping? Where is this going? So there's that kind of issue. But then in London, I I saw a story about this really kind of bougie restaurant at the at the top of a a really nice building that charges you £15 if you want to have a seat next to the window. Because it's on the Top Floor, you get a view of Saint Paul's Cathedral and the Shard, so you get this gorgeous view of London.

如果你想坐在窗边，就得额外付费。伦敦那边就有这种情况。回到美国，我又看到一则新闻。最近这事争议很大。路易斯安那州的新奥尔良现在可是美食热门地。

And if you wanna sit next to the window, you have to pay more for that. So there's that happening in London. Then back to America, I saw another story. This is really contentious these days. So New Orleans in Louisiana is kind of a hot spot for food.

大家都知道那里是美食天堂，现在有人专门去热门餐厅订位，然后通过其他APP转卖预订位。通常能卖几百美元，但最近有人花了2138美元买下新奥尔良某餐厅的预约位。

Everybody kind of knows that it's this amazing food hub, and now what people are doing is they're getting restaurants at these or they're getting reservations at these really hot restaurants, and then they'll sell the reservation on a different app on a on a different app, and sometimes it's a couple of $100, but one recently, someone paid $2,138 for a reservation at a restaurant in New Orleans.

天啊，那人肯定要庆祝特别重要的日子。

Jeez. That person must have a really important Day.

一日游

Day tour

重要场合才会去那里。

occasion to hold us there.

这事发生在超级碗期间——就是美国橄榄球冠军赛。不过话说回来，这些就是世界各地正在出现的新型附加费。

It was during the Super Bowl, which is the American football championship. But anyway, regardless, so those those are the some of the extra charges that are happening now in different parts of the world.

没错。听完这些故事，不难想象不同群体对此事的看法：餐厅老板们当然觉得天经地义——毕竟他们长期提供茶水服务（大多数时候）。本地消费者可能已经习以为常，而游客们会觉得这种体验前所未有。

Yes. And now if you listen to all these stories, it's not hard to imagine how different parties would think about the issue for restaurant owners. Of course, they've been doing this forever, and they are providing tea. Well, most of the times. And for consumers, local consumers might have already get used to it, and tourists might feel like, this is something I have never experienced.

但仔细想想，这并非你从未经历过的事。有些餐厅会向顾客收取餐具使用费。

But really think about it. It's not something you never experience. In some different restaurants, they charge people for the tableware they use

嗯。

Mhmm.

使用时，有时你并不知情，或者他们会告知你。但有时，你只会在账单上看到一包纸巾被列为额外费用。

Use, sometimes without knowing, or they will tell you. But sometimes, you will only see the bag of tissue as an extra fee on your bill.

所以这些情况确实存在。我更好奇法律层面发生了什么，尤其是地方政府方面——我们知道地方政府已尝试通过新规作出回应。他们具体说了什么？确实，2025年10月广州市政府就专门针对茶位费发布了法律草案征求意见稿，旨在保护和规范广州早茶文化。

So these all happen. So I'm more curious about legally what's happening, especially for the local government because we know local government has already given some responses in trying to put new regulation on it. Exactly what did they say? Well, there has been indeed a new release of legal draft on specifically on the tea per person fee. So in October 2025, local government of the the Guangzhou city released a draft seeking public opinions for the protection and regulation of Guangzhou's morning tea culture.

关键点在于：餐厅必须清晰列出所有费用，包括茶位费。换句话说，不得在顾客不知情的情况下设置隐藏或强制收费——除非你明确告知'如果在我们餐厅用餐就需要支付这笔费用'。我认为这很合理，至少他们在征求公众意见：'你同意支付这笔费用吗？'

So the key point here is restaurants, they must clearly list and display all fees including tea per seat fees. So in other words, no hidden or mandatory charges without letting the customers knowing that there is such fee existing if you're dying in our restaurant. And and I think that's reasonable. At least they're asking for people's advice on, hey. Do you agree to pay for that fee?

在大多数情况下，我想人们会反对。那么接下来会发生什么？

Which most, in most cases, I think people would disagree. Well, I think What happens next?

这取决于...这是你的选择，也是核心问题所在。对吧？商户若未在顾客点单前明确告知茶位费，就违反了《中华人民共和国消费者权益保护法》第八条规定。我是从文件上读到这条的。

It it depend well, it's your choice, and that's the main issue here. Right? Merchants or businesses that fail to clearly state the tea seat fee before the customer orders, they're violating article eight of the law of the People's Republic Of China on the protection of consumer rights and interests. Right. I read that off a paper.

我并不是一开始就知道这个。这赋予了消费者了解所有服务费用的权利，我认为这才是问题的核心，因为如果你上网看看，会发现人们都在说'是啊，小气，别在意这个'。我多少能理解餐馆为什么这么做，但也会有人说'不行，这应该被彻底禁止'。我们都已经为食物和饮料付钱了，为什么进店坐下还要额外收费？

I didn't automatically know that. That gives consumers the right to know all the service costs, and I think that's the main issue here, because if you go online, you'll see people saying, yeah, mean, don't mind this. I kinda get why restaurants do this, but then you'll get people saying, no. This should be completely outlawed. Why should we have to pay just to sit down when we're already paying for the food and drink when we go into that establishment?

更重要的是要让人们知情。

It's more about letting people know.

让人们知情非常重要。我最近被教育了很多次，意识到自己在很长很长时间里都没有充分或有效地维护自己的权益。比如你知道吗，当你注册某项服务后，那些按月自动扣取的费用，如果你决定打电话给店家说'我注册了但忘记取消'，是可以要求退还的。

And letting people know is very important. I have recently been educated so many times, and I realized that I have been not sufficiently or inefficiently protecting my rights for a really, really long time. For example, do you know that when you sign up for a certain service, the monthly deducted fee, automatically deducted fee, can be asked back if you you decided to call what whatever type of shop owner and tell them that, okay. I signed up for it. I forgot to cancel it.

即使这个月已经扣到第5天了，你不再需要这项服务，也能拿回钱。这是受法律保护的。但我们往往不知道这些信息。就像Steve说的，世界上最重要的事情之一就是有各种法规在保护我们的权益。

And for this month, maybe it's already the 5, and I do not want it anymore. You can get your money back. It is protected. Then we don't know this information. And I think, like Steve said, one of the most important things in the world is that there are so many different types of regulations and laws protecting our rights.

我们需要做的，是更积极主动地去了解并运用这些法规。

And what we need to do is to be more active and proactive in knowing them and using them.

没错。

Right.

除此之外，如果我因为带孩子去餐厅就被收取每人茶位费，我是绝对不会接受的。

And on top of this, if I am charged a tea per person fee because I bring a baby to the restaurant, I would most definitely be not okay with it.

让我再次翻开《中华人民共和国消费者权益保护法》。第十条规定了消费者的公平交易权。收费必须基于实际提供的服务，即等价有偿。既然婴儿既不饮茶也不使用茶具，向他们收费就缺乏服务依据，属于强制消费。

Let me open up the law of the People's Republic Of China on the protection of consumer rights and interest book once again. Article 10 protects consumers' right to fair trade. Fees must be based on actual services provided, meaning equal value for payment. Since infants don't consume tea or use tea sets, charging them lacks a service basis and counts as unreasonable compulsory charging.

说得好，史蒂夫。说得太好了。

Well said, Steve. Well said.

是啊。

Yeah.

在这个充斥着各种名目费用的世界里，只要我们真正享受了服务，我们当然可以选择付费。我们为服务买单，我们支付小费。只要你们提前告知就好。您正在收听的是《圆桌论坛》。

And in a world where there are too many different types of different items of fee, yes, we can choose to pay for it as long as we really truly enjoy the service. We pay for the service. We give a tip. As long as you let us know in advance. You're listening to Roundtable.

接下来是《圆桌论坛》的'心灵对话'环节。请继续关注。您提问，我们解答。《圆桌论坛》，心灵对话。

Coming up, Roundtable's heart to heart. Stay tuned. You ask. We answer. Roundtable, heart to heart.

这里是《圆桌论坛》，我是史蒂夫·希瑟利，还有雨申。今天我们进入'心灵对话'环节，聆听听众朋友们的心声。你们发来了想法、疑问和困惑，现在轮到我们给予见解、建议，或许还有一点严厉的爱。今天的语音留言来自海伦，让我们一起来听。

This is Roundtable with me, Steve Heatherly and Yushen. And today, we are having heart to heart segment where we hear from you, our listeners. You've sent us your thoughts, questions, and dilemmas, and now it's our turn to respond with insights, advice, and maybe a little tough love. Today's voice memo is from Helen. Let's take a listen.

你好，《圆桌中国》。我是来自中国广东的海伦。想和大家分享的主题是大自然。这个暑假我制作了许多植物和蝴蝶标本，一直在大自然中探索，感受微风拂过发梢，欣赏落日余晖。

Hello, Roundtable China. I'm Helen from Guangdong, China. The topic I wanna share with you guys is nature. In this summer holiday, I made so many botanical and butterfly specimens. I've been, exploring in nature and, you know, just feeling the wind brushing through my hair and looking at the sunset.

是的，这里真的非常美。我热爱大自然。据我观察，现在很多青少年都严重缺乏活力和快乐，所以我在想是什么导致了这种现象。

Yeah. It's really, really beautiful. I love nature. As I've observed, there is a huge deficiency in energy and happiness in a lot of teenagers today. And so I was wondering what caused it.

为什么会这样？比如为什么会出现'脑退化'现象？随着我不断爱上大自然并观察周围事物，我得出了一个结论。我认为他们感到缺乏快乐和人生目标，是因为他们没有真正去感受事物。他们没有用心去仔细观察生活和生命。

Why is that? Like, why is there a phenomenon of brain rot? So as I kept falling in love with nature and observing the things around me, I came to a conclusion. I think they feel this lack of happiness and lacking a sense of purpose in life is because they don't really feel things. They don't observe things carefully with their heart and their life.

他们没有真正去观察、聆听、嗅闻和触摸真实生活。这也是因为他们沉溺在互联网世界的泡沫里，所以没有走出去体验真实生活，获得真实纯粹的感知。是的，所以我认为这就是为什么他们常常感到内心空虚。没错。

They don't really observe, listen, smell, and touch the real life. It's also because they stay in that bubble of their Internet world, so they don't go out to their real life and have a real and authentic sense of it. Yeah. So that is why I think they often feel a sense of void in their inner heart. Yes.

以上就是我个人的想法。是的，我想和大家分享这些。最后但同样重要的是，我要特别感谢Steve、何阳、牛红林、余顺和雷明。我超爱这个节目。

So this is my own thoughts. Yeah. And I wanna share them with you guys. Last but not least, I wanna give a big shout out to Steve, He Yang, Niu Hong Lin, Yu Shun, Lei Ming. I love the show.

我真的很爱《圆桌中国》，我会继续收听你们的所有播客。谢谢，再见。

I really love Roundtable China, and I will continue to listen to all of your podcast. Thank you. Bye.

谢谢你Helen，你真是太贴心了。

Thank you, Helen. That's very sweet of you.

Helen，茶座区的茶位费。

And Helen, the land of tea seat for tea charges.

如有关于茶位的问题请告知我们。此外，亲近自然能为我们带来能量。我完全赞同这一点。现在的年轻人确实常抱怨生活，有时自称是低能量人群。我不确定他们的说法有多少真实性，又有多少只是在用社交热词与人交流。但我非常高兴你个人能选择亲近自然。

Let us know if you have a problem with the tea per seat Besides that, nature getting close to nature would bring us energy. I totally agree with with that. And young people today do complain about their life or sometimes they say that they're the kind of low energy kind of people. I'm not really sure how much or the percentage of how much percentage of their claim is for is for real and how much percentage is just them using another social hot topic or catchphrase to communicate with others. But still, I'm very glad that you personally, to get close with nature.

是的。我感觉她不仅是在说青少年。我也深有同感。史蒂夫，你怎么看？

Yeah. I feel like she's not just mentioning the teenagers. I think I totally echo with that too. So what do you what's your thoughts, Steve?

海伦，我听完你对青少年的看法后做了些研究。我认为全球青少年都被误解了。我首先查阅了斯坦福大学医学网站，了解到：青少年大脑的理性部分尚未完全发育，这一过程要到25岁左右才完成。事实上最新研究表明成人与青少年的大脑运作方式存在差异。

Well, Helen, I listened to what you had to say about teenagers, and then I went and did a little bit of research. I think teenagers around the world get a bad rap. My first stop on the Internet was Stanford University's medical website, and this is what I learned. The rational part of a teenager's brain isn't fully developed, and it won't be until 25 years old or so. And in fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently.

成人用前额叶皮层思考——这是大脑的理性部分，能对情境做出合理判断并考虑长期后果。但青少年主要通过杏仁核处理信息，那是大脑的情绪中枢。这是斯坦福的研究。接着我查阅了约翰霍普金斯大学医学网站，上面提到——不知道你是否听说过——关于青少年大脑的特殊性？

Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, that's the brain's rational part, this is the part of the brain that responds to situations with kind of good judgment and an awareness of long term consequences, but teens process information with the amygdala, which is the emotional part of their brain. That's from Stanford. Then, Helen, I went over to John Hopkins University Medical website. This is what it said, teens, and I don't know if you've heard about this, have you heard of the teenage brain before?

听说过。

Yes.

没错，它的运作方式不同。这是关于青少年睡眠的研究：虽然青少年的睡眠习惯可能让父母抓狂，但这其实是青春期生理变化导致的自然反应。

Yeah. It operates differently. Right? And this is about teens and sleeping. Though teenagers, this is from John Hopkins, though teenagers and their sleep habits may be maddening to parents, they're partly in response to physical changes that occur during puberty.

根据约翰霍普金斯睡眠专家的说法，青少年的昼夜节律会自然后移，导致他们在晚上11点前难以入睡。再加上早课时间、增加的作业量、课外活动，有时还要兼职打工，因此青少年睡眠不足是个真实存在的问题。海伦，综合斯坦福和约翰霍普金斯的研究资料，再考虑到25年前根本不存在的社交媒体压力、高中校园里的社交压力——既要保持酷形象又要成绩优异，还有来自父母的额外期望...我理解你的意思，但我们或许该对青少年多些宽容。

Teens experience a natural shift in circadian rhythms, that's according to a John Hopkins sleep expert, and it makes it more difficult for them to fall asleep before 11PM. Then you've got your early start times at school, you've got your increase in homework, you've got your extracurricular activities, and sometimes a part time job, and therefore sleep deprivation in teens is a legitimate problem. So, Helen, if we take into account the information from the Stanford University website and the John Hopkins Medical website, then we have to say, maybe we shouldn't be as critical as we are of teenagers. Also taking into account the pressure of social media, which didn't exist twenty five years ago. Also taking into account the pressures of society that exists within high school, the pressure to be cool and get great grades, and then the pressure from your parents on top of that, I say, Helen, I know what you mean, but let's give them a break.

那是史蒂夫，青少年守护者。

That's Steve, the teenager defender.

对，那条消息来自17岁的史蒂夫，那时他的大脑还没完全发育成熟。

That, yeah, that was from that message was from 17 year old Steve whose brain hadn't fully developed yet.

但在我看来，当我们注意到越来越少接触自然的机会，越来越多的屏幕时间，以及我们很多关于世界、关于生活的感受、经验和知识都来自互联网，来自那种不那么切实获取信息的方式时...嗯...人们从小就知道用木头钻木头可以生火，但实际远没这么简单。

But in my opinion, I do think when we notice the problem of less and less chance to get close to nature, more and more screen time, and the fact that a lot of our feelings, of our experiences, of our knowledge about world, about life is from the Internet, is from not that tangible kind of way to get the information. Information. Mhmm. People know from very, very young that if you drill with a wood on a wood, you might get get fire. But it's not as simple as that.

真正有过这种实践体验的人少之又少，很难切身感受这项技能或自然法则的本质。所以我认为适当远离手机，走进大自然亲眼观察很重要。这当然不是年轻人的责任，父母应该带他们去——特别是对青少年而言。学校应提供更多实践机会，社会也该像史蒂夫说的那样，在学业和社交方面给他们减减压。

And so little, so few people have the experience to actually do that, to have a tangible tangible feeling of what that skill or reason or law of nature is really about, which is why I also believe it's quite important to get away from smartphone a little bit, to go to the nature and see it for yourself. And that is not the responsibility with the young people, for sure. Their parents should take them, especially if we're talking about teenagers. The schools would give them more opportunities to do so, society, like Steve said, might give them a bit less pressure academically or socially. That would help with the situation.

但我觉得指出问题本身没什么不对，海伦。

But I see no problem in identifying the problem, Helen.

我们总抱怨学生沉迷电子屏幕。可屏幕是谁给他们的？拜托，这难道不是事实吗？

Who so we complain that students are addicted to their screens. Who gave them those screens? Oh, come on. What? It's a fair argument.

不，不。是成年人给了他们那些电子设备。我们给了他们沉迷的东西，然后又抱怨他们沉迷其中。

No. No. Adults gave them those screens. Yes. So we give them something to get addicted to, and then we complain that they're addicted to it.

这不公平。

That is not fair.

成年人没有给他们。

Adult didn't give it to them.

他们给了。他们发明了存在。

They did. They invented exist.

是的。他们发明了它。当你拥有那个存在时

Yes. They invented it. And when you have that existing

史蒂夫·乔布斯发明iPhone时可不是八岁小孩。

Steve Jobs was not eight years old when he invented the iPhone.

我喜欢这个论点。继续。

I love this argument. Keep going.

问题是当社会上普遍存在这种情况时，作为父母，你无法剥夺孩子拥有手机的权利。一旦存在就无法回头。但这确实是个值得讨论的话题。

The problem is when people have that in the society, as a parent, you cannot deprive your kids the right to have a cell phone. It's when it's there, it's there. There's no way to go back. But that is a topic we can discuss.

法官大人，青少年是无辜的。

Your honor, teenagers are not guilty.

那声呼喊为我们今天的圆桌讨论画上了句号。请至少就最后一个话题告诉我们您的想法。非常感谢您的收听，再见。

And that shout brings us to the end of today's roundtable. Please let us know what do you think about at least the last one. Thank you so much for listening. Bye bye.