返场特辑：从田园到餐桌——中国健康饮食新风尚

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌会议。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌会议。

You're listening to Roundtable.

我是林永鸿，与史蒂夫和黎明一起主持。

I'm Yohong Lin, joined by Steve and Lai Ming.

如果你注意到朋友们在网上晒寺庙风格餐食或植物基火锅，你并不孤单。

If you've noticed your friends posting temple style meals or plant based hot pot online, you are not alone.

植物基餐饮已成为中国最热门的美食趋势之一，而且不仅限于素食者。

Plant based dining has become one of China's hottest food trends, and no, not just for vegetarians.

从学生到CEO，越来越多人转向更清淡环保的饮食。

From students to CEOs, more people are turning to lighter, greener meals.

但为何是现在呢？

But why now?

让我们在今天的节目中一探究竟。

Let's find out on today's show.

说到植物基饮食。

So plant based dining.

这类饮食有太多叫法了。

There are so many names for these.

植物基饮食、素食、纯素，到底有什么区别？

Plant based dining, vegetarian, vegan, just what are the differences?

生食主义、果食主义。

Raw veganism, fruitarianism.

没错。

Yeah.

虽然有很多不同的术语，但我觉得即便到了2025年，很多人还是会搞混。

There's a whole lot of different terms, but I think even in 2025, it's still confusing for a lot of people.

素食者和纯素者有什么区别？

What's the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan?

素食主义者不吃那些需要动物死亡才能获得的食物。

Well, vegetarians don't eat things that require an animal to die.

所以他们不吃红肉、牛肉、羊肉、家禽、火鸡、鱼这类东西，但他们仍然吃鸡蛋和乳制品，比如牛奶、奶酪、酸奶，还有蜂蜜等其他食物。

So they include red meat and beef and lamb and poultry, turkey fish, things like that, but they still eat eggs and dairy products like milk and cheese and yogurt and other things like honey.

但纯素食主义者不仅不吃素食者禁食的那些东西，而且完全不使用任何动物制品。

But vegans, you have the list of things that vegetarians don't eat, but also no animal products whatsoever.

所以这包括鸡蛋、乳制品、蜂蜜以及其他来自动物的成分，比如明胶。

So that does include eggs and dairy and honey and any other ingredient that comes from an animal, like gelatin, for example.

我认为可能还有一个区别。

And I think maybe a difference too.

对纯素食者来说，这通常被视为一种生活方式，因为它往往不仅限于食物。

For vegans, it's often considered a lifestyle because it's not it's often not just limited to food.

嗯。

Mhmm.

纯素食者通常会在生活的其他方面也避免使用动物制品，比如不穿皮鞋，或者不使用经过动物测试的化妆品等等。

Vegans often make choices like avoiding other animal products in other parts of their lives, like no leather shoes, for example, or no cosmetics that were tested on animals, things things like that.

那么，如果我们用这些标准来衡量，植物性饮食只是针对这一餐，我不吃肉。

Well, and if we use these standards, then plant based diet is just for this meal, I'm not eating meat.

这是出于个人选择。

It's by choice.

而且，我不会永远坚持这一种饮食选择。

And also, I don't stick to this one diet option forever.

你知道，我有选择的权利。

I am you know, I have choices.

更灵活些？

More flexible?

更灵活。

More flexible.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

那么中国的植物性食品情况如何呢？

So how about or the plant based food situation in China?

因为我怀疑大多数中国人是否都是纯素食者或素食主义者。

Because I doubt there are the majority of Chinese people are vegan or vegetarian.

不过，确实有很多人出于不同原因在不同场合选择相对更绿色的饮食。

Yet, we do have a lot of people for different reasons choose to have a relatively greener diet in different occasions.

嗯，这是一个不断增长的趋势。

Well, it's a growing trend.

目前中国有超过5000万人遵循素食或以植物为主的饮食方式。

Over 50,000,000 people in China now follow a vegetarian or mostly plant based diet.

根据中国新闻网2024年引用的2022年行业报告数据显示。

According to the 2022 industry report cited by chinanews.com.cn in 2024.

该行业年产值已突破420亿元人民币，并形成了成熟的上游至下游供应链体系。

The industry's annual output value has surpassed 42,000,000,000 yuan with a well developed upstream to downstream supply chain.

虎嗅网在1955年2月引用的行业数据显示，中国植物基食品市场正以每年超25%的速度扩张，尽管火锅、烧烤等传统主流餐饮品类遭遇了一些挫折。

Industry data cited by Huxiu News in 02/1955 shows China's plant based food market expanding at over 25% annually, and this is in spite of some setbacks suffered by more traditional industries like hot pot, barbecue, and other mainstream categories.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但别被趋势误导了，因为素食市场虽然规模庞大，我们说的是420亿元人民币。

But don't let the trend misguide you because as big as the vegetarian market is, we are talking about 42,000,000,000 yuan.

对吧？

Right?

我们刚刚提到过。

We just mentioned that.

但我做了一点小小的调查。

But I did a little little research.

根据新华社的报道，火锅行业的规模是6170亿元人民币。

The hot pot industry, according to a Xinhua News Agency report, was 617,000,000,000 yuan Yeah.

在2024年。

In the year 2024.

你提到的中国有5000万人遵循素食或主要以植物为主的饮食，这大约占总人口的3.5%。

And the 50,000,000 people in China that follow a vegetarian or mostly plant based diet that you mentioned, that's about three and a half percent of the population.

嗯。

Mhmm.

确实在增长。

It is picking up.

如果你观察这个特定市场的发展，没错，它正以非常显著的速度扩张，超过25%，全国范围内约有14,000家餐厅。

If you look at the growth of the particular market, yep, it's expanding at a really, significant rate, over 25%, and that reaches about 14,000 restaurants around the country.

但你说得很有道理，黎明。

But you make a good point, Lai Ming.

不像在任何一个大城市街头，十家餐厅中有九家都是素食或纯素餐厅。

It's not like nine out of 10 restaurants when you walk down the street in any major city are are vegetarian or vegan restaurants.

这仍然是个小众市场，但这个小众市场正经历着非同寻常的

There's still a niche, but niche that's seeing a well, out of extraordinary extraordinary

增长。

growth.

问题在于，在中国素食餐饮界或植物基食品领域，存在两种类型的餐厅。

The thing is that in China, the vegetarian cuisine world or the plant based food world, there are two types of restaurants.

有一类已经存在很长时间了。

One has been there for quite a long time.

相对高端，非常昂贵，至少按我的标准来看是这样。

It's relatively high end, very expensive, well, to my standard.

你可以品尝到几乎像肉一样但实际上是植物制成的食物。

And you get to enjoy the kind of food that tastes almost tastes like meat, but they're plant based.

是的。

Yeah.

我们甚至发明了一些词汇，比如素肉。

We have invented words like Yes.

没错。

Yes.

它们都是素食。

They're vegetarian.

素鸡、素鸭，还有素鹅

Vegetarian chicken, vegetarian duck, And vegetarian

这些地方不仅在食材选择上相当高端。

these places are not only quite high end in the choice of food and material and ingredients.

它们还非常讲究，在装饰风格和氛围设计上有着极高的美学标准，让你在这样的环境中用餐时。

They are also quite choosy and picky and have a really good aesthetic design kind of, let's say, standard when it comes to decoration, the atmosphere, when you enjoy your food in these kind of places.

你会感觉自己的心灵也得到了一丝宁静，在那种舒缓的氛围中。

You feel like your spirit, your soul is also quieting down a little bit, you know, in a soothing kind of atmosphere.

而最近的新趋势是，我们看到一些自助餐厅提供全素食菜品，而且价格相当实惠。

And the new trend these days is that we are looking at some eat all you can buffet, but all of the dishes there are vegetarian, are plant based, and they are quite a bargain.

你可以享用全素食自助餐，每人仅需25元。

You can go have a all you can eat buffet, all plant based, with only 25 yuan per person.

而且菜品质量相当不错。

And the dishes are quite good.

他们不会刻意把素食做成肉的味道。

They do not intentionally cook the vegetarian food into meat taste.

就是中国各地不同菜系的常规做法，用不同的烹饪方式呈现。

They're just regular dishes from different Chinese cuisine, different ways of cooking them.

但它们相当不错，而且不是预制菜。

But they're quite nice, and also they're not precooked food.

这就是它越来越受欢迎的原因。

That is why it's gaining popularity.

价格便宜、健康又美味。

It's cheap, it's healthy, and it's tasty.

而且偶尔少吃点肉也不错。

And occasionally, you, you know, eat less meat.

你说25元？

25 yuan, you said?

换算下来大概4美元？

That's about, what, $4

是的。

Yeah.

差不多是自助餐的价格。

Roughly for a buffet.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，这确实是朝着正确方向迈出的一大步，因为我觉得可以很肯定地说，在加拿大和美国，人们对素食或纯素食的态度——虽然这不公平——就是觉得它们价格昂贵甚至虚高。

Well, that's a really good step in the right direction because I think I can safely say the attitude in Canada and America towards maybe vegetarian or vegan food, and and this is unfair, is that it's expensive and maybe even overpriced.

他们做过一项调查。

They did a survey.

我是在greenqueen.com上看到的。

I found this from green queen dot com.

调查显示，尽管肉类消费占70%美国人饮食支出的最大头，但多数美国消费者仍认为纯素饮食比标准美式饮食更昂贵，这种认知与现实的反差挺讽刺的。

They did a survey, that showed that the majority of US customers believe that vegan diets are more costly than the standard American diet despite meat being the highest source of their spending for for 70% of them, which is kind of an interesting ironic twist.

而且你知道吗，在很久以前的美加西方文化里，纯素食主义是带有污名标签的。

And with veganism, you know, a long time ago in America and Canada, Western culture, there was a stigma attached to it.

比如如果你在聊天时提到自己是纯素食者或素食者，可能会有人翻白眼或者说些...

Like, if you if you were to bring up in conversation that you were a vegan or a vegetarian, you'd might get some people rolling their eyes or saying like

为什么？

Why?

因为这是不公平地联系在一起的，顺便说一句，我要声明这一点。

Because it was connected to unfairly, by the way, let me state that.

它被与某种嬉皮士生活方式运动联系在一起，比如动物权利活动家，这并不是坏事。

It was connected to kind of like a hippie lifestyle movement like animal rights activists, which is not a bad thing.

并非偶然。

Not an accident.

一点都不是坏事。

Not a bad thing at all.

这确实很难推销出去。

It's just that it was a tough sell.

要说服人们接受素食主义很困难。

It was a tough sell to get people on board.

对于素食主义者来说，长期以来，他们很难做到第一点：与人讨论他们的饮食或生活方式偏好。

And for vegans and vegetarians, for a long time, it would be really challenging for them to, number one, have conversations about their dietary preferences or lifestyle preferences.

第二点：找到一家合适的餐厅哦。

And number two, find a restaurant Oh.

那还算价格合理且味道不错。

That was somewhat affordable and tasted good.

但这些观念和想法现在正在发生真正的改变。

But those those concepts, those ideas are really changing now.

是的。

Yeah.

美国和加拿大过去也是如此。

We used to be the way with The US and Canada as well.

正如New Hauling之前提到的，素食过去很昂贵，因为需要精心准备食材，甚至要将其雕刻并烹饪成具有肉菜的口感和外观。

Vegetarian food used to be expensive, as New Hauling mentioned earlier, because a lot of care has to go has to go into prepping the ingredients and even carving them into the and also cooking them into the taste and shape and the look of meaty dishes.

而且，它还是一个小众市场。

So, also, it's a niche market.

你之前提到过，即使相比其他趋势增长迅速，它仍只占人口的3%。

You mentioned earlier, it's 3% of the population given even as it is growing rapidly against other trends.

所以这是一个小众市场。

So it's a niche market.

没多少人会去那里。

Not a lot of people go there.

我们通常会这样想，比如，我们去吃点好的。

We people would commonly think of it as, you know, let's go have some let's go some play nice.

让我们尝试一些新奇的东西。

Let's experiment with some weird stuff.

所以这是个利基市场，供需关系不平衡。

And so it's a niche market, and they have to the supply and demand is imbalanced.

所以它们本应该很贵，但现在出现了一个新趋势，人们开始选择素食，而且他们负担得起。

And so they they're supposed to be expensive, but now there is a new trend where, well, where you people are just going for vegetarian and that they can afford them.

而且也不用费心让它们看起来或尝起来像真正的肉

And there's no no trouble of making them look like real meat or tasting like

是啊。

Yeah.

现在对食品生产商来说更容易了，不是吗？

It's easier now, isn't it, for food producers?

是啊。

Yeah.

有趣的是，越来越多的年轻人正将这种饮食方式纳入他们的日常选择。

And then the funny thing is more and more young people are choosing this as part of their diet.

他们并非完全转向纯素食或长期吃素。

It's not that they're going vegan or going vegetarian for good.

更像是每周可以尝试一两次这种饮食方式。

It's more like, well, I can have this one or two times a week.

这样更健康。

It's healthy.

更清淡。

It's lighter.

更有利于我的体重管理计划。

It's better for my weight management plan.

我们在中国观察到，根据国内主要外卖平台美团的数据，25至35岁的年轻人占据了植物基餐饮订单的68%。

And we see that here in China, we according to Meituan, which is a major food delivery platform here in the country, 25 to 35 year olds make 68% of plant based dining orders.

这并不意味着他们只吃植物性饮食。

That that does not mean that they eat only plant based diet.

只是有一些以植物性饮食为主的餐厅和点单，而这些主要由年轻人完成。

It's just there are some plant based diet related restaurants and also orders, and they these are made by majorly young people.

越来越多的年轻人选择更健康的生活方式，是的。

More and more young people are choosing a healthier lifestyle Yep.

选择更绿色的饮食，而非油腻、厚重且不太健康的肉类饮食。

A greener diet instead of a meaty, oily, great and heavy, but not that healthy one.

嗯。

Mhmm.

18到30岁这个数据来自金华。

18 to 30 this is from Jinhua.

18至35岁的年轻人占健康消费支出的83%，几乎达到84%。平均每年约1000元人民币或140美元。

18 to 35 year olds account for 83, almost 84% of wellness spending that averages out to about a thousand yuan or a $140 a year.

而且这不仅关乎保持身材或去健身房。

And it's not just about staying fit or going to the gym.

这或许反映了更深层次的正念生活方式。

It reflects something a little bit deeper perhaps about mindful living.

麦肯锡去年还有另一份报告。

There was another report from McKinsey's from last year.

x的中国消费者现在将健康列为他们的首要考虑因素。

62 of Chinese consumers now rank health as their top priority.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这也体现在食品行业中，为健康而食，而非仅为果腹。

And that is reflected in the food industry too, eating for your wellness, not just eating for the sake of eating.

是的。

Yes.

现在我们有两类餐厅，或者说素食餐厅。

Now we have two types restaurant or, well, vegetarian restaurant.

一类是高端素食餐厅，大多标榜有机食材，甚至会在餐厅里播放竖琴或古筝音乐。

One, the super high end one, most of them label their ingredient as organic, and they even play harp or congho in their restaurants.

是的。

It's yes.

你

You

看，这是一种体验。

see It's an experience.

这是一种体验。

It's an experience.

是的。

Yes.

他们有时甚至会说，我经营餐厅不仅仅是为了盈利。

And they sometimes even say that I'm running the restaurant not only well, not mainly for the purpose of earning profit.

而是为了提供一种禅意体验。

It's to provide a Zen style experience.

所以高端餐厅让你能体验这种感受。

So there's the high end one that you can experiment.

而现在还有相对更实惠的自助餐形式，食物美味且更绿色轻食。

And now there's the relatively more affordable one, the buffet type with delicious food and also greener and lighter diet.

你认为这个新来者会在市场上立足吗？

Do you think that this newcomer would stay in the market?

它是只会流行一时的短期风潮吗？当人们的偏好或热情消退后就会消失的那种。

Is it a short fam that will only appear for a period of time and after people's, let's say, preferences or people's enthusiasm faded, type wow.

自助餐会消失，还是会成为长期存在的新事物？

Buffet would disappear, or is it a new thing that'll stick?

我认为它会持续存在。

I think it's I think it's here to stay.

我要把两件看似不相关的事情联系起来——我们看到全球都在面临社会老龄化问题。

We see I'm gonna link two things that might not seem to go together, but we have aging societies around the world.

对吧？

Right?

中国正是其中之一。

And China is one of those countries.

统计数据显示，不仅仅是Z世代对植物性饮食感兴趣。

The statistics show that it's not just the Gen Zers who are into this plant based diet.

2024年，中国有3.1亿人（占总人口的22%）年龄在60岁以上，这个群体的健康意识尤为强烈。

In 2024, three hundred and ten million Chinese people, twenty two percent of the of the population are age 60, and health awareness is particularly strong among that group.

该群体中有77%出于健康原因选择植物性饮食，因此他们已经是这个市场的主要贡献者。

77% of that group choose plant based diets for health reasons, so they're already a major contributor to that to that market.

这意味着不仅年轻人，老年人也对此感兴趣。

So that means that it's not just younger people, it's older people as well who are interested in this.

这不仅仅是一种潮流。

It's not just a trend.

这是人们在做出更好的选择。

It's people making better choices.

我要换个说法——他们是在对吃什么做出更明智的选择，而且这包括老一辈人，在我看来这种趋势会持续下去。

I I'll replace the word better, more informed choices about what they wanna put in their tummies, and it includes the older generation, and and that is gonna continue in my opinion.

我不确定他们是否真的在做明智的决定。

I'm not sure if they are making informed decisions.

我是说，因为素食饮食如果不仔细管理，不补充其他维生素摄入，可能会带来健康风险。

I mean, because vegetarian diet, if if it's not carefully managed, if it's not supplemented with other vitamin intakes, then can cause health risks.

所以我把它看作一种暂时的时尚或短暂趋势，因为我见过餐饮业过去几年的潮流，它们都是轮流出现的。

So I look at this as a temporary fad or a temporary trend because I've seen trends in the catering industry over the past few years, and they take turns.

几年前流行的是四川成都美食，川菜。

A few years back, it was the Sichuan Chengdu Mei Shi, Sichuan Cousin.

那时候到处都能看到这些店铺和服务。

You see them everywhere, the stores and services.

后来又流行来自东部省份福建的菜系。

And then later on, there is the which is from the eastern province of Fujian.

再后来有段时间大家都在讨论黄焖鸡米饭。

And then now there was a time when we talk about is braised chicken mixed with rice.

还有几年前也流行过牛肉火锅。

And and then a few few years back, there's also the beef hard part.

就连这个也已经变了。

Even that has changed.

它已经被酸酱牛肉硬块所取代。

It has given way to hard part beef hard part with sour sauce.

餐饮业的特点就是风水轮流转。

So things the thing with catering industry is they take turns.

它们永远不会长久停留。

They're never here to stay.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我认为这只是暂时的，人们会转向其他更时髦的创新或想法。

And so I I think it's going to be temporary, and people are going to move on to other more stylish inventions or ideas.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我是说，迟来明刚才列举的所有东西，它们都还在。

I mean, all of the things that Chilai Ming has just listed, they're still here.

你几乎在每个城市都还能找到它们。

They are you can still find them in almost every city.

也许不像两三年前那样频繁和普遍，但它们确实留存下来了。

Maybe not as frequent and as common as two or three years ago, but they stayed.

它们作为我们今天用餐或午餐的选择之一保留了下来。

They stayed as one of the choices that we can make for our meal or our lunch today.

我认为素食自助餐也会持续存在，因为之前的一个挑战是供应链或运输行业、冷链技术不够发达。

And I think the vegetarian buffet is also here to stay because previously, one of the challenges is that the supply chain or the shipping industry, the cold chain industry was not as advanced.

你并没有太多来自全国各地的蔬菜选择，而且大多数蔬菜都具有很强的季节性。

You do not really have that many choices of vegetables from different parts of the country, and most of the vegetables are quite seasonal.

但现在这种情况已经改变了。

But now that situation has already changed.

随着运输和储存成本的降低，现在店主和餐厅经营者开设这类餐厅成为可能选择，既能盈利，又能为消费者提供另一种选择。

And with the cost of shipping and also storing getting lower, it is now a possible choice for the shop owners, the restaurant owners to open these kind of restaurants, gain a profit, and provide another choice for the consumer.

这可能取决于气候和气候变化，因为如果蔬菜是季节性的，而植物性菜肴在某个季节因恶劣天气导致蔬菜价格上涨而突然变得更贵。

It might depend on the climate and climate change because if vegetables vegetables are seasonal and if these plant based dishes are suddenly more expensive one particular season because of adverse weather conditions causing the price of the vegetables to increase.

这可能会对主要经营素食的餐厅产生影响。

That might have an impact on a restaurant that's focused mainly on vegetarian dishes.

人们最终还是会考虑的，没错。

People ultimately yeah.

好的。

Okay.

人们关心吃进肚子里的东西，而且有大量研究证明，选择素食或纯素食对环境有积极影响。

They care about what they put in their belly, and there's plenty of studies to prove that if you go vegetarian or vegan, it's a it's a positive impact on the environment.

但说到底，你得养活自己的孩子。

But at the end of the day, you gotta feed your kids.

所以如果由于各种原因价格突然飙升，可能会让这种趋势难以持续。

So if it suddenly spikes because of for various reasons, then that might have make it harder for it to be a continuing trend.

没想到我们会谈到这个，但让我们更好地保护环境吧。

Didn't realize we're gonna go there, but let's be better to the environment.

让我们在生活中践行绿色理念，这样未来我们才能像现在一样拥有丰富的食材选择。

Let's go green in our lifestyle so in the future, we can have as many choices of food ingredients as we are today.

今天的圆桌讨论就到这里结束了。

And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.

我们很想听听大家对今天话题的看法。

We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topics.

欢迎留言或发送邮件至roundtablepodcast@qq.com。

Leave us a comment or send us an email to roundtablepodcast@qq.com.

就像他突然加入圆桌会议一样，转眼间他又离开了。

And just like that, as quickly as he arrived at roundtable, he was gone.

孩子们问：他什么时候会回来？

The children asked, when will he be back?

妈妈回答说：没人知道。

And mama said, nobody know.

下次再见之前，请保持对话继续，让想法不断涌现。

And until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.

再见，拉明。

Bye, Laming.

我是约霍尔，与史蒂文·拉明一起主持，感谢您的收听。

I'm Yohole with Steven Laming, and thank you for listening.

再见，各位。

Bye bye, everybody.