快递英雄们的家

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌会议。

This is Roundtable.

中国的零工经济正迎来重大升级。

Gig work in China is getting a major upgrade.

外卖巨头们正在建设专属骑手公寓并扩展福利设施。

Food delivery giants are now building dedicated rider apartments and expanding welfare plants.

这支劳动力队伍的未来前景至关重要，但这些福利是真正持久的收益，还是成本最终会通过算法转嫁回工人身上？

The stakes for the future of this workforce are immense, but are these benefits real permanent gains, or will the cost just be shifted back to the workers through the algorithm?

我们正在北京演播室为您直播。

We're live from our studios in Beijing.

这里是《圆桌论坛》节目。

This is Roundtable.

我是史蒂夫。

I'm Steve.

感谢大家今天与我们相聚。

Thanks for being with us today.

本期节目，我与菲菲和玉山一同主持。

And for the show, I'm with Fei Fei and Yushan.

首先关注。

First up.

中国各大城市正为庞大的外卖骑手群体提供实质性支持。

China's largest cities are offering substantial support to their vast rider delivery workforce.

就在近期，美团推出的骑手公寓大幅降低了当地住房成本。

Just recently, we saw the rollout of Meituan's rider apartments that dramatically undercut local housing costs.

这一策略也被饿了么在上海等地采用，提供了专为骑手生活设计的公寓。

This strategy, also adopted by LMA in places like Shanghai, offers apartments designed for rider life.

与此同时，美团、饿了么和京东等主要企业在政府指导下正在完善综合福利保障。

At the same time, major players like Meituan and LMA and also JD dot com are enhancing comprehensive welfare coverage under government guidance.

这些都是新增的重要人力成本。

These are significant new labor costs.

那么平台将如何防止这些成本通过算法薪酬的调整变相转嫁给骑手？

So how will the platforms prevent them from being subtly transferred back to the riders through changes in algorithmic pay?

这个问题以及更多内容。

That question and many more.

菲菲、雨生，下午好。

Fei Fei and Yusheng, good afternoon to you both.

在进入新闻话题前，我必须先宣布：原本不定期参与《圆桌论坛》的菲菲，现在正式成为我们的全职成员了。

Before we get into the news, I have to do this because Fei Fei, who has been somewhat regular on, Roundtable, is now joining us full time.

是的。

Yes.

从兼职转为全职。

From part time to full time.

从兼职转为全职。

From part time to full time.

我们非常高兴，虽然以前每次你来节目我们都特别开心，但那时可能几周、一个月甚至几个月才能见一次，而现在几乎每天都能见到你了。

We're so well, we loved it every time you came to the show, but we only got to see you maybe once every few weeks, once a month, or once every couple of months, but now it's going to be nearly every single day.

是啊。

Yeah.

在《圆桌讨论》节目中会有更多我的身影。

More of me on Roundtable.

我希望听众们能更喜欢我的表现。

I'm looking I hope the listeners can enjoy more of me.

我相信他们会的。

I'm sure they will.

对。

Yeah.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Alright.

那么我们就开始吧，这可是非常重要的新闻。

Well, let's get into it then because this is really significant news.

这对骑手们来说是个好消息，至少表面上是这样。

It's great news for the riders, at least on the surface.

那么具体是怎么回事呢？

So what exactly is going on here?

是的。

Yeah.

这确实令人鼓舞，不是吗？听到如今外卖骑手的社会福利和支持体系正变得越来越规范化。

It's really encouraging, isn't it, to hear that the social welfare and support system is getting more and more standardized these days for the food delivery riders.

我们了解到美团——中国外卖市场的主要参与者之一——最近宣布正在全国范围内建设骑手公寓，并允许有住房需求的骑手申请入住。

Now that we hear that Meituan, which is one of the major players in the food delivery market here in China, they recently announced that it is building riders apartments that's across the country, and they're allowing riders with housing needs to apply for residency.

北京、华南的深圳和西南的重庆等城市约600名外卖骑手将很快搬入这些新公寓。

And about 600 delivery riders in cities like Beijing, Southern China's Shenzhen, and Southwest China's Chongqing will will soon move into these new riders' apartments.

他们已经完成了登记。

So they've already registered.

更棒的是，这个公寓住房计划对所有类型的骑手开放，不区分配送模式，包括全职和兼职的。嗯。

And what's better is that this whole program, this apartment housing program is open to riders of all types with no registration based on delivery model that include both full time and part time Mhmm.

骑手们。

Riders.

但优先权当然会给予那些面临短期或过渡性住房困难的骑手。

But the priority is, of course, given to riders who are facing short term or transitional housing difficulties.

因此，这群人会首先获得帮助。

So these groups of people, they receive the help first.

当我们看到这些不同类型的真实公寓提供时，我想我们能更全面地了解它们的实际情况。

And when we see these different types of, like, real apartment offered, I think we can get a fuller picture of what they are really like.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

那么这些将涵盖水费。

So these are going to cover the costs of water.

那部分会被覆盖。

That'll be covered.

电费将由他们承担。

Electricity will be covered.

暖气、网络费用，这些额外的福利也很贴心。

Heating, Internet, that's a lovely little cherry on top as well.

这些都将被覆盖。

That's going to be covered.

接下来几年，我记得是五年内，美团会在这方面投入大量资金。

And then over the next few years, I think it's five years, Meituan is gonna put a lot of money into this.

他们总投资额将达到100亿元人民币。

They're investing a total of 10,000,000,000 yuan.

其中约14亿元将投入这个项目。

That's about 1,400,000,000.0 into the program.

还有一些具体案例我觉得我们也应该了解一下。

There's some specific examples too that I think we should we should learn about.

是的。

Yeah.

对于很多这类项目，我想说，它们都位于城市相当中心的位置。

For a lot of these projects, I would say, they're located pretty in the central part of the cities.

比如在北京，它们就坐落在天坛附近。

For example, in Beijing, they are located near the Temple Of Heaven.

非常中心的位置。

Very central.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

公寓的定价是700元，大约相当于每月100美元。

And the apartment is priced at 700 yuan, which is about around 100 US dollars a month.

以北京的房价来看非常实惠。

Very affordable by Beijing real estate prices.

是的。

Yes.

再比如深圳，在南厦地区，他们租一间单间公寓每月大约需要110多美元。

And also when it comes to, for example, Shenzhen, it's in Nanxia where a single room apartment for them costs about over a little over 110 US dollars per month.

嗯。

Mhmm.

至于重庆，同样位于市中心解放碑附近，月租金是650元，比市场均价便宜约1200元。

And when it comes to Chongqing, it's also in the city center of Jiafangbei, which the monthly rent is 650 yuan, which is about 1,200 yuan cheaper than the normal market price.

是的。

Yeah.

在深圳你提到的那个区域，市场常规价格超过2000元，但骑手们只需支付800元左右。

And in Shenzhen, the area that you talked about, the market price, the regular market price for that area would be over 2,000 yuan, but the riders are gonna pay about 800.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而北京天坛附近那片区域——顺便说离我们也不远——同类公寓的常规租金大约是1500元。

And then the area near the Temple Of Heaven in Beijing, which is by the by the way not so far away from us, the common rental price for that style of apartment is about 1,500 yuan.

但如你所说，向骑手收取的费用会在700元左右。

But as you said, the charge to the riders will be about 700 yuan.

是的。

Yes.

所以相当于打了超过五折。

So more than more than half off.

而且公寓里还配备了各种设施。

And also the things that they equipped within the apartment.

比如，就像史蒂夫提到的，会有网络和暖气。

For example, as Steve mentioned, there will be Internet and heating.

更重要的是，还会提供24小时热水，有时还会配备洗衣机/烘干机，这对那些时间紧张、没空在周日早上洗衣服的外卖骑手来说非常必要。

And more to that, there will be, for example, twenty four hour hot water or sometimes they can provide it with washer slash dryer, which is very much in need for these riders who don't have time to do laundry, you know, on a Sunday morning, but they run on a very tight schedule every And

我们之前讨论过，大概是几个月前，谈到烘干机在中国越来越普及了

we talked about I think it was a few months ago we talked about how dryers are becoming more and more common

没错。

now Yeah.

所以他们也能享受到这个便利。

Here in China, so they'll be benefiting from that as well.

好的。

Alright.

那么这对骑手来说将是一个改变，但他们通常住在哪里呢？

So this is gonna be the change for the riders, but typically where would they live?

因为他们有自己的配送区域。

Because they have their rider delivery area.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

比如北京的一个骑手会专注于某一特定的街区。

A rider in Beijing would focus on one particular set of neighborhoods, would say.

他们不会在北京的东西部之间来回奔波。

They wouldn't be going back and forth from East to West Beijing and then back again.

根据订单密度和该区域的分布情况，那里有很多骑手。

Depending on the density of orders, how it's distributed in that area, there are a lot of riders.

他们称之为骑手站，就是他们聚集的地方，这是目前外卖骑手解决住房问题的主要方式之一。

They call it the rider station, like, where they gather together, and that's one major way for how delivery riders solve their housing problems right now.

那就是由骑手站提供的宿舍。

That's the dormitories that's provided by the deliver their rider station.

所以这个聚集点实际上还提供宿舍。

So the gathering point, they actually provide dormitories.

那是合住的房间，可能很多人一起住。

That's shared rooms, perhaps shared by many people.

具体多少人呢？

How many exactly?

我们没有确切数据，但肯定是个合住的地方，或者他们在站外合租的公寓。

We don't really have the data, but it's for sure a shared place So or a shared individual apartment that they rent outside of the station.

要么是和认识的人一起，要么

With either people they know or

和认识的人或其他骑手一起。

people they know or other writers.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这些配送站，它们是公寓楼还是具体什么样的场所？

These delivery stations, these are apartment complexes or what are they exactly?

差不多就像你知道的，京东或其他主要物流公司的快递配送也是这样的。

More or less like you know, it's the same for parcel delivery for jd.com or other or or or other main major logistics companies.

他们有站点一起分拣货物，这些站点同时也是当地骑手的培训中心或社区中心，他们在这里接受培训、交流，在没有订单时聚集。

They have stations where they sort things out together, and they the stations are also like a training hub or, like, community hub for the local riders where they receive trainings, where they communicate, where they gather when there's no orders.

那里也有宿舍式的房间。

And they have dorm style rooms there too.

没错。

Exactly.

但说到这个配送站，它基本上是骑手们出发派送订单前的最后一个分发中心，规模非常小，比如一个站可能只负责附近一个或几个居民区。

But when it comes to this delivery station, which is basically the last sort of distribute distribution center before these riders, you know, going out and and send out the orders, they are run on a very small scale because, for example, this station would be only in charge of one residential or several residential communities nearby.

所以他们还经营着一家小商店，比如社区里的很多业务。

So and they also ran a small shop for for example, a lot in that community.

所以他们也是精打细算运营的。

So they also ran on a budget.

所以你可以想象他们提供的宿舍可能设施并不齐全。

So you can imagine that the dormitories that they provide may not be as fully equipped.

不仅如此，时间安排上也有点不方便。

Not only that, but schedule wise, it's a little inconvenient.

有个叫杨的快递员说过，站点住宿费每月只要800元，但大家工作时间都不一致。

There was a story of one delivery driver named Yang who said it the cost of the of the station was only 800 yuan a month to stay, but where everybody worked different hours.

他和其他骑手共用一个空间，而这些外卖骑手的工作时间非常不规律。

He was in a shared space with other riders, and these delivery riders work very odd hours.

对吧？

Right?

有时候他们会值白班。

Sometimes they'll work a day shift.

有时他们会工作到深夜班。

Sometimes they'll work a late into the night shift.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他说因为室友们工作时间各不相同，晚上很难安稳入睡，因此（至少部分原因）他搬了出去，自己租了房，每月含水电费约1800元，但那个地方离他配送区域有10多公里远。

So what he said was that because his roommates all work different hours, it was very difficult for him to sleep soundly at night, and as a result of that, or at least partly due to that, he moved out, he got his own place and he pays about 1,800 yuan a month including utilities, but that place is more than 10 kilometers away from the area where he delivers.

那里租金更便宜。

Where rents are cheaper.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

我想这就是为什么这些新措施正在产生重大影响的原因之一。

And I guess that's one of the new that's why these new measurements are are making a big difference.

是的。

Yeah.

他们正在帮助许多骑手解决住房问题。

They are helping with a lot of riders with their housing issues.

今年早些时候，《南华早报》还报道称，中国约有2亿零工劳动者，他们依靠不提供传统劳动合同及相关福利（如公寓或住房补贴）的临时工作谋生。

And earlier this year, South China Morning Post also reported that roughly 200,000,000 gig workers in China, they make a living from temporary jobs that do not offer traditional employment contracts and associated benefits such as apartments or housing benefits.

自今年早些时候起，随着京东、淘宝等主要电商巨头开始加入外卖行业，越来越多的平台逐渐为旗下所有骑手，尤其是全职骑手，引入社会保险和住房公积金等福利。

And since earlier this year, as some major ecommerce giants like jd.com and Taobao began to join food delivery sector, more and more these platforms, they began to gradually introduce social insurance and housing fund benefits for its well, all of their delivery riders, especially the full time ones.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

我想回到那个观点。

I wanna come back to that point.

或许这其中存在关联，也可能没有，因为正如你今年早些时候提到的，那时正是淘宝、京东等大企业开始或进一步涉足这一领域的时候。

Maybe there's a connection there or or maybe not because as you mentioned earlier this year, that's when the the big players got involved or more big players got involved, Taobao and and JD.

我在想，这些大平台的介入与骑手福利的突然提升之间是否存在关联。

And I was wondering if there's a connection there between them getting involved and then all of a sudden increased benefits for the riders.

不过这个问题或许可以稍后再讨论。

But maybe I'll save that question, for a little bit later.

我们也应该提一下这件事。

We should mention this too.

我觉得这挺重要的。

I think it's kind of important.

外卖骑手获得某种住房安排并非首例。

This isn't the first example for food delivery riders to have some kind of housing arrangement.

不是的。

No.

实际上，2023年上海普陀区就与饿了么合作，推出了全国首个骑手公寓项目。

Actually, in the year 2023 in Shanghai in a district called Putuo, they started to partner with Elema and started the country's first rider apartments.

该项目提供了98套公寓，约300个床位。

And that project offers 98 units with about 300 beds.

借着美团宣布推出骑手公寓的新闻，一些记者也回访了上海普陀的这些项目

And taking advantage of this news of Meituan announcing its own rider apartments, I think some reporters also went back and checked on these projects in Puthuo, Shanghai

嗯

Mhmm.

发现目前约85%的床位已有人入住

And found that about 85% of the beds are now occupied.

所以反馈非常积极

So the the feedback has been very positive.

是啊

Yeah.

即使过了两年

Even after two years.

对

Yeah.

没错

Yeah.

由此可见为何会有更多参与者提供此类服务。

So you can see why more players and more such services are provided.

可以说那段时间就像是试验田，用来观察这种模式的效果如何。

So it could be argued that that was kind of maybe the testing ground, the testing period to to see how it would go.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那些公寓是区政府专门设计作为保障性租赁住房的。

And those those apartments, those were specifically designed by the district to be guaranteed affordable rental housing.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此，因为上海市级相关部门。

That's true because the local Shanghai City Wise authority.

他们推出了这项保障性租赁住房政策，目前已经覆盖全国约40个城市。

They kind of have this rolled out this policy of guaranteed affordable rental housing, which nowadays cover over or around 40 cities across China.

简而言之，就是以低于市场的价格提供临时租赁公寓，特别是面向新市民和处于人生特定阶段需要住房帮助的年轻人。

So basically, that means to offer temporary rental apartment at below market price to especially new urban residents and young people who need help with housing in their the certain phases of life.

我不确定你们是否了解过上海那些星级公寓，比如优客逸家或美团新推出的公寓项目。

And I'm not sure if you guys have checked out this whole, like, star rated apartments in Shanghai from Ulama or the newly rolled out Meituan apartments.

它们让我想起发达国家的青年旅舍或青年旅馆，有时会有共享床位。

They look like they reminds me of the youth motel or youth hotel in developed countries where sometimes there's there are shared beds.

有时则是单间工作室公寓，经过现代化风格的精装修。

Sometimes it's like one single studio bed and it's well remodeled to a modern style.

更像是酒店风格的感觉，嗯。

It's more like a hotel style Mhmm.

氛围上更接近酒店而非住宅，所以...

Vibe than house So or

作为租客，我可以选择住单人间或与他人合住。

as a writer, I can choose if I want to stay in a single bedroom or I want to share with others.

是的。

Yeah.

有不同的档次可选。

There are different levels.

甚至还有家庭式房间，如果作家有家庭住宿需求，可以带上他们的妻子、孩子或丈夫和孩子

There are even the family style rooms where the writers, if they have family housing need, they can bring their, you know, wife and kids or husband and kid

哦，这非常酷

Oh, as very cool.

之前不知道这个

Didn't know that.

嗯

Mhmm.

那这一切是怎么运作的呢？

So how how does this all work then?

这个费用是怎么支付的？

How how does this how how is this being paid for?

因为这不仅仅是快递公司的事

Because it's not just the delivery companies.

还有政府机构的支持

There's support from government bodies too.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

因为你可以想象，在北京、上海这样的大城市租某些公寓楼可能会非常昂贵。

Because you can imagine, you know, renting certain apartment buildings in the city of major big cities like Beijing and Shanghai can be very expensive.

例如，美团表示公司将在这个特定项目中投入总计1100亿元人民币，约合超过10亿美元。

For example, Meituan said he the company will invest a total of $110,000,000,000 yuan or roughly more than 1,000,000,000 US dollars in this particular program.

但我认为大部分资金会用于，比如说，公寓内的设施和家电。

And but I think a lot of the money would go to, for example, the the facilities, the home appliances within the apartments.

但说到住房本身，主要是由政府协调，他们有能力协调城市中的闲置空间，提供给外卖行业的这些参与者使用。

But when it comes to the housing itself, it mostly are coordinated by the government, that they have the capacity to coordinate unused spaces in the cities to offer to these players in the food delivery industry so that they can make use of it.

此外，比如说，他们也在某种程度上搭建这些科技公司与房地产管理机构之间的桥梁。

Also, for example, they are also sort of build building the bridges between these tech companies and also real estate management agencies.

对。

Right.

例如，这些科技公司自己无法管理这些住宿或骑手公寓。

That, for example, these tech companies, they won't be able to manage these accommodation or rider apartments themselves.

因此他们也会与第三方合作，负责管理并为这些骑手提供其他服务。

So they will also work with a third party to to do the managing and other services that's provided to these riders.

那需要很多协作。

A lot of collaboration involved then.

很多实体都在共同合作。

A lot of entities working together.

嗯。

Mhmm.

骑手们对此肯定非常满意。

The writers must feel very positively about this.

我想知道目前反馈如何？

I would think what's the feedback been so far?

总的来说反响很好。

Well, it's generally very good.

一些骑手已经接受采访并表示，以前住得远，每天光是通勤就要花一两个小时。

Some writers have already been interviewed and said that before, I lived far away and spent one to two hours just commuting every day.

而现在，我就住在配送区域内。

And now, I live inside the delivery area.

节省的时间足够多送10单。

And the time I save is enough to deliver 10 more orders.

这确实。

That's a Yeah.

是个额外福利。

That's A bonus.

没错。

Yeah.

一位骑手说的

Set by one writer

意味着多了10次赚取收入的机会。

in 10 more opportunities for pay.

或许更多的报酬和成百上千的，我不知道，小费。

Perhaps more payment and hundreds of, I don't know, tippings.

让我们期待吧。

Let let's hope.

当然，对他们来说，晚上工作结束后能更快回家休息，希望也能睡得更香。

And then, of course, for them after finishing work at night, they can get back home sooner and rest much faster, hopefully, sounder too.

我们讨论的不仅仅是外卖平台。

And it's not just for food delivery platforms that we're talking about.

许多科技公司如小米和华为，也在采用非常相似的策略，他们建造自己的办公楼并为员工提供公寓，这样他们下班后能更快回家。

Many tech companies like Xiaomi and Huawei, they're also going after this very similar strategy and providing or building rather their own office buildings and provide apartments for employees so that they can get off work and go go back home sooner Sooner.

或许第二天早上也能更早回到工作岗位。

And may perhaps come back to work the other the next morning sooner too.

所以今年7月，小米宣布在北京和华东江苏省的南京推出了青年公寓。

So that's in July where Xiaomi announced that they launched the youth apartments in Beijing and also in Nanjing in Eastern China's Jiangsu Province.

他们的大部分单元面积约55平方米，月租金大约在1,700到2,000元之间，这在这两个城市的月租金中处于相对较低水平。

So most of their units are around 55 square meters with rents between roughly 1,702,000 yuan per month, which is also in the relatively lower level of rental payment you pay on a monthly basis in these two cities in particular.

这已成为中国许多大型科技和电商公司当前普遍采用的趋势。

So it's like a trend that's adopted by a lot of the tech major ecommerce and tech companies nowadays in China.

嗯，我个人想从不同角度看待这种解决方案。小米为员工提供住房与骑手公寓性质不同，因为这些骑手大多来自中国农村地区，他们进城纯粹是为了赚钱。

Well, I for me, I think I want to approach to this sort of solution a different way because when it comes to Xiaomi offering houses, kind of accommodations for its workers, I think it's somewhat different from these rider apartments because when it comes to these riders, they often the case coming from rural areas of China, and they come in just looking for money.

这是他们从事骑手工作的唯一目的。

That's their only purpose of working as riders.

相比之下，如果我是小米的技术人员，我可能对自己的职业会有其他规划。

Other than, you know, if I work as a tech person in Xiaomi, I probably would have other plans in my career.

这些来到北京或上海只为增加收入的骑手们，比如几年前我们就讨论过，他们在医疗保障方面几乎没有什么福利。

So when it comes to these writers who come to Beijing or Shanghai looking just for increased income, and that comes for example, a few years back, we have we had discussions about they don't really come had a lot of benefits when it comes to health care.

比如当他们送餐途中遭遇事故时...

And when for example, when they run into accidents, when they are delivering the food Yeah.

谁来承担他们的医院治疗费用？

Who is gonna cover their expenses in hospital hospitals?

而现在我们看到大型科技公司开始为这些骑手提供医疗保险。

And then now we see that the bigger tech companies are offering health care insurances for these riders.

是的。

Yeah.

还有医疗保险和养老保险补贴。

Health care insurance and pension insurance subsidies too.

对吧？

Right?

所以现在我认为他们不仅在努力提高福利待遇，还在增强我们在这座城市工作和生活的归属感。

So now I think they they are working to increase not only on the benefits, but also increase on the level of sense of belonging when I come work and live in the city.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为这些骑手多年来在大城市里一直处于某种边缘群体状态。

Because for these writers, for many years, they stay as sort of a marginalized group in bigger cities.

就像没人会关注他们一样。

And it's like no one would pay attention to them.

特别是对很多年轻人来说，如果你日夜在大城市工作却毫无归属感，有时会出现心理健康问题。

And for a lot of young peoples especially, they would sometimes suffer mental health issues if you work and just work in a big city day and night with no sense of belongings.

但现在有了医疗、养老和住房保障，他们开始能把自己视为城市的一部分了。

But with, you know, health care, pension, and housing now offered, they can now sort of imagine themselves, you know, a part of the city.

是啊。

Yeah.

你会感觉更有归属感，更踏实一些。

You're feeling a little more rooted, a little a little more grounded Yeah.

或许，也更有安全感了。

Perhaps, a little bit more secure.

再说养老保险补贴，这对让员工获得安全感是重大的一步。

And, again, you know, the pension insurance subsidies, that that's a big that's a big step towards having employees feel a sense of security.

这方面具体有哪些措施呢？

What what are some of the details there?

嗯。

Yeah.

那让我们以美团为例具体说说。

That's let's talk back to Meituan as an example.

那是在今年10月，美团宣布其面向外卖骑手的养老保险补贴将覆盖全国并向所有骑手开放。

That's back in this October where Meituan announced that its pension insurance subsidy for delivery riders will will by then, be available nationwide and open to all riders.

实际上这一政策最早始于四月份。

That actually began first back in April.

当时美团在成都、福建等几个城市试点为骑手建立本地养老和保险补贴计划。

And back then, it was a pilot program for Meituan to try to build local pension and insurance subsidy for their riders in Chengdu, in Fujian, and several other cities.

随后迅速扩展到深圳、成都、武汉以及江苏无锡等城市。

It then quickly expanded to cities like Shenzhen and Chengdu and Wuhan and also Wuxi that's in Jiangsu province.

就这样逐步覆盖到了全国范围。

It that that's when it covers the entire country gradually.

自二月起，京东等其他企业也宣布将为全职或稳定的兼职配送骑手缴纳社保。

And since February, other companies like jd.com, they have also announced that they will pay social insurance for their full time or stable part time delivery riders.

正如飞飞你提到的，现在确实是外卖骑手真正成为劳动力一部分的时期，开始获得与科技公司员工相差无几的系统化、结构化的社会福利体系。

So as as you mentioned, Fei Fei, it is a time where delivery riders, they really become part of the labor force and start to get more systematic and structured social welfare system that's not too different from, say, those sitting in the tech company

是啊。

Yeah.

办公桌。

Desks.

这是对零工经济工作者的保障。

It's protection for gig workers.

没错。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

这确实是件非常积极的事情。

And this is this is a very positive thing.

我在想，现在要回到之前我提出的那个观点。

I wonder and I wanna come back to this point now, the one that I brought up before.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我在想是否有个元素，该怎么称呼它呢？

I wonder if there's an element of how do you call it?

比如，保障？

Like, securing?

对。

Right.

可能是因为随着越来越多的大公司进入这个领域——我是说，全国各地的外卖骑手数量已经几乎多到数不清了——当更多参与者加入时，他们之间的竞争会加剧，同时争夺这些兼职和全职员工的竞争也会更加激烈。

Perhaps because when you've got more and more big players coming in, I mean, are already an uncountable number almost of of delivery riders around the country, and so when you've got more players coming in, that's an increasing competition amongst themselves, but it's also an increasing competition for securing these part time and and full time employees.

所以我在想，这是否是他们策略的一部分，通过提供更多福利来吸引员工。

So I'm wondering if that's part of the strategy here is by offering more benefits.

是的。

Yeah.

你之前提到的很多外卖平台，这些年轻人加入后只是想找份零工，为人们送餐。

A lot of these food delivery platforms you mentioned earlier, they these young people, come in and they just want to look for a gig job and they deliver foods for people.

可能两三个月后，他们发现这份工作无法带来高收入，就会考虑换其他工作。

And perhaps two, three months later after they discover that, oh, this is not going to bring me a huge salary, then they'll probably start to work somewhere else.

因此这些平台希望通过稳定他们的收入并给予支持感来解决这个问题。

So these platforms, they want to solve this by trying to stabilize their income and make them feel like it's they're they're supported.

我们有系统来支持你。

We've got the system to support you.

正如其他行业分析师所认同的，正如我早前提到，这一整体趋势是这些平台基于人才争夺逻辑所驱动的战略举措。

That's where, of course, this is agreed by other industry analysts where this whole trend, as I mentioned earlier, is a strategy or rather a strategic move driven by talent grabbing logic from these platforms.

谈到稳定性，我认为还必须讨论可持续性。

Well, talk about stability, and I think we have to talk about sustainability.

美团在此投入的资金可不菲。

The number that Meituan's investing here, it's not cheap.

他们在相对较短的五年时间内投入100亿元人民币，来维持骑手的低租金价格。

It's 10,000,000,000 yuan in a relatively short period of time, five years, to maintain these low rent prices for their riders.

这能持续多久呢？

How sustainable is this?

我的意思是，这必定是平台面临的挑战之一。

I mean, this has to be one of the challenges facing the platforms.

确实如此。

Definitely.

但我认为，这也取决于看问题的角度。

But I think, it also depends on the perspective.

如果你审视这些，我们姑且称之为成本，比如美团投入100亿元用于住房项目。

If you look at these, so, if we call them costs, that if Meituan, for example, invested 10,000,000,000 yuan into a housing projects.

但从问题的另一面看，当骑手们能够充分休息时，他们就能投入更多精力和时间完成更多订单——毕竟他们的收入与接单量挂钩。

But if you look at, you know, at the other side of the issue is that when riders can, you know, rest well, they can invest more of their energy and time doing more work, which they want to because their payment is depend on the orders.

这同时也会为公司带来更多收益，体现在公司的工资支出和资产负债表上。

And that also brings more income on the other side of, you know, the paycheck of the company, on the balance sheet of the company.

所以这更像是一种投资行为？

So it's more of an investment than anything else?

是的。

Yes.

我会这么表述。

I would put it that way.

这不仅仅关乎他们在住房项目上花费的100亿日元。

It's not only about the 10,000,000,000 yen that they spend on these housing projects.

甚至可能还有意想不到的收益。

And then maybe even the unforeseen.

例如，如果骑手们休息得更好更充分，事故可能会减少。

For example, if the riders are more better rested, well rested, fewer accidents perhaps.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Exactly.

诸如此类的事情。

Things like that.

还有比如，在医疗保险方面，如果这家公司为骑手提供健康和养老保险，嗯。

And also if, for example, when it comes to health insurance, if, for example, this company is providing riders with health and pension insurances Mhmm.

当与那些不提供这些服务的平台相比时，就像史蒂夫提到的技术人才争夺策略，更多人会倾向于选择那个平台。

And when it compares to players that don't offer these services to them, like what Steve mentioned about the tech, the talent grabbing strategy that more people would like to go, you know, go to that platform.

这也意味着更多的收入和订单。

That also means more revenues and more orders.

我在我们刚开始时就提到过这一点。

So I mentioned this when we got started.

是否存在任何担忧，认为成本可能会转嫁给骑手，或者甚至以某种方式转嫁给顾客？

Is there is there any concern that the cost might shift back to the riders or or perhaps even to customers somehow?

嗯，这正是他们试图避免的情况。

Well, that that's what they're trying to avoid.

如今，吸收成本的重要部分实际上是通过地方政府、政府机构、配送平台以及其他外部资源之间的合作来分担财务和物流负担实现的。

Nowadays, a significant part of of absorbing the cost is actually achieved by distributing the financial and logistical burden through partnerships between local governments, governmental bodies, delivery platforms, and also other external resources.

你提到了一个非常重要的点，菲菲，即操作系统和维护系统并非由美团、饿了么或地方政府提供。

You mentioned something very important, Fei Fei, that the operation system and the maintenance system is not offered by Meituan or Ulama or local government.

而是由整个计划或方案的第三方参与者提供的。

It's by a third party participants of this whole scheme or program.

因此，他们都是参与者，共同分担资金支出或所谓的成本，并通过解决租金等主要开支，平台增加了骑手的可支配净收入，并改善了他们的工作环境，正如我们之前提到的。

So they are all participant, and they're part of this in sharing the money spent or the, quote, unquote, cost in this scenario and also by tackling major expenses like rent, platform increase the rider's net disposable income, and improve their working environment like we mentioned earlier.

这些努力正是为了避免这些成本通过加重骑手负担来分担。

This is trying this is their efforts in trying to avoid these costs being shared by being burdening their riders or Yeah.

我们这些为配送服务买单的人。

Us who's paying for the deliveries.

这不是他们的计划，对吧。

It's not their plan to Right.

将成本转嫁给除既定支付方之外的任何人。

Shift the the the cost back to to anyone other than those who are intended to pay for it.

那么接下来这个行业会怎样发展？

So then what's going to happen with the industry?

这会成为一种常态吗？

Will this become a bit of a norm?

我不禁要问。

I would I would wonder.

毫无疑问。

Definitely.

正如我提到的，当骑手在城市工作时缺乏归属感，我认为他们正从城市过客转变为城市建设者。

As I mentioned, you know, when riders don't have the sense of didn't have the sense of belonging working in cities, I think now they are transforming themselves from city passerbys to city builders.

哦，真不错。

Oh, lovely.

因为，你知道，在当今的中国城市里，很难想象没有他们的生活会怎样。

Because, you know, right now, in nowadays, Chinese cities, it's very difficult to imagine a life without them.

他们实际上已成为每个人生活的一部分。

They're essentially a part of everybody's life.

他们无处不在，无时不在。

They're everywhere all the time.

是的。

Yes.

所以他们从不停止工作。

So never they never stop working.

应该说，他们在工作时从不停歇。

They never while they're working, they never stop moving, I should say.

他们始终处于运动状态。

They are constantly in motion.

确实如此。

They are.

是的。

Yes.

他们从不休息。

They don't stop.

他们进店取餐，回到车上，送完餐又回来，接着再去取更多食物。

They go in, pick up food, come back to their bike, go drop it off, come back to their bike, go pick up more food.

简直难以置信。

It's just unbelievable.

这些骑手一天下来肯定筋疲力尽了。

These riders must be exhausted at the end of a day.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

每次在铁轨上看到他们，我都对他们充满敬意。

I have a lot of respect for them every time I see them on the rail.

我总是尽量优先考虑他们，尤其是当我开车的时候。

I always try to prioritize them, especially when I'm driving.

如果他们看起来有紧急需求，我希望他们能先走。

I want them to go first if they seem like they're in an urgent need.

而且我认为作为一名骑手，也需要你在时间管理上非常熟练。

And I think being a rider also, know, asks you to be very skilled in your time management.

是啊。

Yeah.

你手上可能同时有十单、二十单订单。

You have, like, ten, twenty orders on your hands.

所以现在我认为，通过提供医疗保险、经济适用房等服务，城市实际上是在积极表态——他们是我们的一部分。

So now I think by offering them services like health insurance, affordable housing, you're I think the cities are actively saying, you know, they are part of us.

嗯。

Mhmm.

要知道，我们的生活离不开你们。

You know, we can't live without you.

你们为城市发展做出了贡献，这对骑手们来说比什么都重要。

You you are you contribute to the city's development, and that matters more than anything to these riders.

或许正是因为骑手们时刻围绕在我们身边，人们才开始将他们视为背景的一部分。

Perhaps it was because it is because the riders are all around us all the time that people just started to see them as blending into the background.

但通过提供他们应得的养老金、经济适用房，确保他们得到充分休息来满足需求，设立站点让他们饥饿时能获取食物以保证营养充足。

But by offering them things that they deserve pensions, affordable housing, taking care of their needs by making sure they get enough rest, by providing these stations where they can get food when they're hungry to make sure that they're well fed.

这些都是他们应得的待遇，看到骑手们获得应有的尊重真是太好了。

These are things that are deserved, and it's nice to see the riders getting the respect that they deserve.

我在想，公寓的下一步计划会是什么？

What's next for the apartments, I wonder?

2号公寓会是什么样子呢？

Apartment 2, what's that gonna look like?

是的。

Yes.