城市废墟的危险魅力

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

你正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're listening to Roundtable.

我是牛红林，和史蒂夫、艾珊一起参与讨论。

I'm Niu Hong Lin, joined by Steve and Aishan.

在中国各地，越来越多的年轻人进入废弃的工厂、未完工的住宅项目和关闭的医院，通过城市探索和废墟美学等标签在线记录他们的经历。

Across Chinese cities, more and more young people are venturing into abandoned factories, unfinished housing projects and closed hospitals, documenting their experiences online under labels like urban exploration and ruins aesthetics.

这纯粹是一种创意亚文化，还是社交媒体激励、青年焦虑与监管盲区复杂交织的结果？

Is this purely a creative subculture or a complex convergence of social media incentives, youth anxiety and regulatory blind spots?

有些人认为，并肩行走的一对情侣就像一句话，两个分句本应相互呼应、意义完整。

And some believe a couple walking side by side is a kind of sentence, two clauses meant to make sense together.

当一人盛装登台，另一人却穿着家居服时，这句话就断裂了。

When one shows up dressed for the stage and the other for the couch, the sentence breaks.

这是一个穿搭差距的时刻。

This is a swag gap moment.

现在，越来越多的年轻人表示，他们因为这一点而结束了关系。

Now a growing number of young adults say they've ended relationships because of it.

让我们仔细看看这个新的约会趋势。

Let's take a closer look at this new dating trend.

但首先。

But first.

在社交媒体盛行的背景下，废墟美学和梦境核心引发了中国年轻人中广泛的城市废墟探索潮流。

Against the backdrop of social media's prevalence, ruins aesthetics and dream core have sparked a widespread trend of urban ruins exploration among Chinese youth.

这一现象涉及年轻人进入废弃工厂、关闭的医院，甚至未完工的建筑项目等场所。

This phenomenon involves young people venturing into sites such as abandoned factories, closed hospitals, and even uncompleted construction projects.

他们通过在社交平台上分享诗意的叙述和电影般的视觉画面来记录这些经历。

They document the experiences through poetic narratives and cinematic visuals shared on social platforms.

然而，对探索隐秘城市角落的浪漫化描绘掩盖了严重的安全隐患和监管空白，引发了关于如何调和审美追求与公共安全的深刻问题。

However, the romanticized portrayal of exploring hidden urban corners has obscured severe safety hazards and regulatory gaps, raising critical questions about how to reconcile aesthetic pursuit with public safety.

但让我们先来看看废墟的美学。

But let's first take a look at the ruins' aesthetics.

请解释一下，什么是梦境核心？

And please explain, what is a dream core?

嗯，根据我刚了解到的，梦境核心实际上是一种主要在线上兴起的美学风格和亚文化。

Well, a dream core as per I just learned is actually an aesthetics style and subculture that emerged primarily online.

它融合了超现实主义、怀旧元素，有时还带有令人不安或如梦似幻的想象。

That's a blend of elements of surrealism, nostalgia, and sometimes unsettling or dream like imaginary.

你看，它就像你正在看某样东西或一张图片，感觉它像是梦境的一部分，但场景中的元素并不协调，而这在梦中却很常见。

You see, it's something that you seem like as if it's part of a dream but you're looking at it or a picture right now and things doesn't really match in that scenery but it happens quite often in a dream.

所以，这正是‘梦境核心’这个名字的由来。

So that's as per the name dream core.

比如，你站在一个游泳池里，这个游泳池看起来老旧废弃，但水却不断流动，仿佛它是一个户外泳池。

Like for example, you're standing in a swimming pool and that swimming pool looks old abandoned but the water is keep on flowing and flowing as if it's a water instead of an indoor swimming pool.

然后，有一个玩偶倒挂着漂浮在水面上。

And then there's a doll floating upside up above the water

噩梦核心。

Nightmare core.

飘向你。

Drifting over to you.

如果你搜索梦核之类的内容，可能会在社交媒体上看到这种东西。

That's something that might pop up on social media if you search dream core, stuff like that.

所以《盗梦空间》或《黑客帝国》也带有一点梦核的美学风格。

So Inception or The Matrix are also a little Dreamcore kind of aesthetics.

嗯。

Yeah.

有一点。

A little bit.

我觉得我们可以看到它与废墟美学的联系。

And and I think we can see the connection with the Ruin aesthetic.

废墟的美学也是如此。

Ruin's aesthetics too.

对吧？

Right?

因为这不仅仅是偷偷进入旧地方，而是与某种事物相关——人们能在看似衰败的事物中发现美与意义。

Because it's not just about sneaking into old places, but it's connected to something where people can find beauty and meaning in what seemingly would be decaying.

所以对于那些认为他们是在探索通常无人涉足的领域，并觉得这有点像幽灵猎捕体验的人来说。

So for those who are thinking, oh, they're exploring the kind of territory that are usually not explored and seeing, oh, it's kinda like a ghost hunting experience.

不。

No.

不是那样的。

It's not like that.

它没有那种美学风格。

It's not with that kind of aesthetics.

而是他们前往这些地点，记录下体验，加上一些滤镜、音乐，以一种诗意的方式记录这段经历。

It's them going to these sites and recording the experience and putting some filters and some music and some poetic way to document the experience.

适合社交媒体、病毒式潮流之类的。

Suitable for, you know, social media, viral trends, stuff like that.

但有时，我们现在看到越来越多的年轻人涌入这些废弃的地方，比如废弃的游乐园、废弃的工厂和医院。

But sometimes, now that we see many well, a large number of young people flocking into these abandoned places, abandoned amusement parks, abandoned defunct factories and hospitals.

我们有时会看到事故发生，确实会发生。

We see sometimes accident accidents, they do happen.

例如，一位记者潜入上海的一个城市探险团队时，不慎跌入一片泥泞中，陷入了一场意外的麻烦。

For instance, one journalist going undercover with an urban exploration squad in Shanghai found themselves in an unexpected mess after falling straight into a muddy patch Oh.

在试图攀爬一堵墙进入废弃工厂时，他还被划伤了。

And getting scratched up while attempting to scale a wall into abandoned factory.

是的。

Yeah.

另一位在大连的摄影师为了拍摄一组模特大片，冒险进入了一个封闭的广场。

There was another photographer in Dalian looking for the perfect shot for a modeling gig and took a risk and entered into a closed off plaza.

那里明明有明显的警告标志写着‘禁止入内’，但他还是发生了严重的高处坠落事故。

There were clear warning signs around there too that said do not go in, and then ended up with a pretty serious high fall accident.

这件事发生在八月份。

This happened back in August.

然后在一月，杭州的一位博主在探索一所废弃学校时，翻墙后跌落，被困住，最后不得不求助当地消防部门前来救援。

And then in January, there was a blogger in Hangzhou who was exploring a deserted school and then fell after climbing over a wall, got trapped, and then needed to get the local fire department to come rescue them.

在圆桌讨论中，我们曾聊过一些非常小众的爱好。

On roundtable, we've discussed some very niche hobbies.

但我们之所以讨论这个，是因为它在年轻一代中变得越来越流行，而且这种行为几乎可以被年轻人群体轻松复制和传播，因为探索过程本身也几乎被标准化了。

But the reason we're talking about this one is that they're getting a bit a bit too popular among the younger generation, and it's almost the kind of process that is easily copied and pasted among the younger generation because the exploration process is also almost streamlined.

很多时候，孩子们会结成小组一起行动。

And a lot of the times, the kids, they gather together as a group of sort.

他们觉得这种废土风格的探索很有趣，但往往这些探索背后隐藏着危险，远非表面看起来那样安全。

And they think it's this whole wasteland style kind of exploration is fun, but a lot of times there are danger harboring behind those kind of exploration the way you think it is.

而且这些地点有时也被用来拍摄照片，甚至举办小型音乐会，听起来很浪漫，但背后肯定有不少挑战。

And sometimes these sites, they also use it for photoshoots or even for organizing small concerts, which sounds romantic, but there's gotta be some challenges behind it.

有时如果你不加注意，就可能发生我们提到的那些事故。

And sometimes if you don't pay attention, it might happen like those examples we mentioned.

我们希望未来类似的事情能越来越少。

We hope there are less examples of alike in the future.

问题是，我了解到有一些平台在组织或提供这些体验的技巧和地点建议。

The problem here is that I learned that there are platforms organizing or providing tricks and providing places, suggestions for these kind of experiences.

是的。

Yeah.

探险者们会公开交换他们所谓的经验技巧。

Explorers, they'll openly swap what they call experience tips.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你可以把它们称为入侵指南，如果你想的话，教人们如何进入这些地方，一些技巧还会教人如何找到墙上的缺口。

You could call them intruder guides, I guess, if you wanted to, on how to gain entry to these places, and some of the tips will teach people how to locate gaps in the wall.

例如，他们会明确说明入口在哪里，以及最佳的攀爬其他墙壁或类似地方的方法，或者如何破坏门锁、躲避保安。

For example, like, they'll explain exactly where the entry point is, and then the best spots to climb other walls or things like that or to figure out how to damage door locks or dodge security guards.

他们也会分享这类信息，所以显然，这并不好。

They'll share that type of information as well, so, obviously, this is is not good.

对于这类探险，我多少能理解其中的乐趣。

And these kind of explorations, I kind of get a little bit about the fun of it.

外面有一些胆大妄为的人。

We have the daredevils out there.

他们只是想尝试以前没做过的事情。

They just wanna try things that they haven't done before.

但这种探索的主要爱好者或狂热者，还有哪些我们还没提到的驱动力呢？

But and the the major the main lover or enthusiast of this kind of exploration, what are what are some other drives that we didn't mention just yet?

也许这仅仅是一个更好的社交媒体潮流。

Maybe it's just a better social media trend as a That too.

因为历史上，这些活动只属于那些通常拥有专业设备并能评估固有风险的爱好者。

Because historically, these activities was only for enthusiasts who generally have these specialized equipments and ability to assess inherent risks.

但如今，这变成了普通的年轻人，尤其是Z世代，他们未必具备这些条件。

But nowadays, it's just young people in general, Gen z who don't necessarily have all that.

也常常是群体行为。

Just kind of groups too.

我的意思是，你只要上网就能找到。

I mean, you could hop online.

而这种行为在线上带来的危险在于，你在网上看到的都是经过精心修饰、完美无缺的成品，这会促使其他年轻人以为：哦，这个我也能做。

And the danger of it being online as well is what you see online is a polished, perfect, finished product, and it encourages other young people to think, oh, I can do that.

看，这有多简单。

Look how easy that is.

你在网上看到一位厨师做了一顿五星级大餐，于是你回家尝试，结果却惨不忍睹。

You watch a chef online cook a cook a five star meal, and you try to it yourself at home, it goes horribly wrong.

这里也会发生类似的情况。

Same type of thing can happen here.

你知道，有些人可能稍微擅长这类事情，但你出去自己尝试时，可能会陷入真正的麻烦。

You know, you have people who might be a little bit better at doing this type of thing, and then you go out and do it yourself, and you could end up in some real real trouble.

让自己陷入困境，或者让自己受伤。

Get yourself in trouble or get yourself hurt.

当然有身体安全风险，我们已经提到了一些例子，还有健康风险，因为这类风险我们并不常看到，但这些废弃场所往往藏有长期残留的有害物质，当你进入这些地方时，这些危害并不会立即显现，因为没有人能保证环境的安全——无论你接触了什么，还是吸入了什么，你都未必能立刻察觉问题。

Physical safety risks for sure, and we've already mentioned the examples, and also health risks because this perhaps the most in we see these kind of risks not that often, but these abandoned locations often harbor long term residual health hazardous that are not immediately visible when you go to these places because no one is guaranteeing the safety of the environment no matter if it's something you touch or something that you inhale, and you don't necessarily can notice the problem at

就在当下。

I the moment.

想想如果你去一个废弃的建筑工地，你根本不知道那里还残留着什么化学物质。

Think if if you were to visit an abandoned construction site, you don't know what chemicals are left over there.

你不知道那里留下了什么重金属粉尘或旧材料的纤维。

You don't know what heavy metal dusts are left over there or fibers from old materials.

所以，如果你吸入这些物质，或者皮肤接触到它们，想象一下你的手臂或手上正好有伤口，再接触到这些物质，你可能会遭受相当严重的伤害。

So if you breathe that in or if you come into contact, if your skin comes into contact with that, or imagine you got a cut on your arm or a scrape on your arm or your hands and then you come into contact with that, you could really end up with some pretty serious damage.

而且，我们之前提到了废弃的医院和未完工的建筑项目。

And, also, we mentioned closed hospitals and unfinished construction projects.

进入这些地方合法吗？

Is it even legal to go into

这些地方吗？

these places?

是的。

Yeah.

这又是一个大问题，不是吗？

That's another big issue, isn't it?

它并不是因为被遗弃了就变成无主之地。

It's not because it's abandoned that it's free territory.

有些可能仍有主人。

Some might be owned.

不。

No.

没错。

Exactly.

它可能属于其他人。

It might own by someone else.

如果我们现在讨论的财产有明确的产权，那么未经许可进入就构成非法侵入，这比单纯的探索行为要严重得多。

And if a property, now that we're speaking, has clear property rights, then entering without authorization can constitute illegal intrusion, which is something, like, more serious than one explore exploration can cover.

好的。

Okay.

所以，如果这些探索活动背后的驱动力更多是出于探索或冒险精神，以及‘我是内容创作者’这种想法。

So if the drive behind these exploration kind of activity is more of a exploring or adventurous spirit and the idea that, oh, I am a content creator.

我也想做这件事，让我的观众看看这是什么感觉。

I also wanna do this and show my viewers what it's like.

我们能说这是一种会慢慢或迅速消退的潮流吗？

Can we say it's kind of a fat that will slowly or quickly fade away?

我们能不能就放任不管，什么都不做，让这种时尚自己悄然消失？

And can we just, you know, let it go and don't don't do anything about it and just let the fashion go away quietly by itself?

还是我们应该对此做点什么？

Or should we do something about it?

我觉得，

I think,

你知道吗，北京这里有一个非常著名的艺术区，叫798。

you know, there is a very famous art district called 798 here in Beijing.

这是一个很好的例子，说明城市管理者如何帮助遏制这种行为。

That's one good example of how a city management can help to curb this kind of Yeah.

年轻人的自由活动。

Free activity among young people.

那里确实有那种氛围，对吧？

It kinda does have that vibe there, doesn't it?

它以前是一系列废弃的工厂或旧度假村。

It used to be an a series of abandoned factories or, like, old resorts.

但现在它被改造成了一个充满艺术和美学氛围的区域，周围遍布许多画廊和非常小众的西方餐厅。

But now it's kind of modified into this art and aesthetics and vibe being kind of district where you can see a lot of galleries and very niche foreign western restaurants happening all around.

因此，与其简单地忽视这种破败美学的需求，我认为政府和地方当局也可以尝试探索这一概念，将这些著名热门地点改造得像798一样。

So instead of just simply ignoring this demand of ruined aesthetics, I think the government, the local authorities, they can also try to explore the concept of all this and try to really modify these famous popular sites into something just like seven nine eight.

是的。

Yeah.

但那就没人会去了。

But then nobody's gonna go anymore.

我知道。

I know.

这不一样。

It's different.

这不一样，因为我假设我自己并不是这些都市探险者之一，但我认为乐趣的一部分在于此。

It's different because I'm assuming I'm not one of these explorers, urban explorers, but I'm assuming part of the Fun.

吸引人的地方在于危险。

Draw is the danger.

未开发的部分。

The undeveloped part.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，如果你在废弃医院门口安排一些工作人员，说这里是81号入口，还有冰淇淋出售，那它就不再有那种同样的梦幻魅力了。

So, you know, if you put some employees at the front of the abandoned hospital and said it's 81 entry and there's ice cream for sale, well, then it doesn't have that same DreamCore appeal anymore.

对吧？

Right?

我说，我告诉你我到目前为止在中国见过的最喜爱的标语。

I say, I told you my favorite sign that I've ever seen in in China so far.

那是警察在公共场合张贴的一块告示。

It was a sign posted in public by the police.

上面写着：除非你不介意进医院或监狱，否则不要打架。

It said, don't fight unless you don't mind going to the hospital or jail.

太棒了。

Awesome.

我觉得这简直太好了。

Which I I thought was fantastic.

要非常、非常、非常明确。

Make it very, very, very clear.

在这里，公共安全是第一位的，嗯。

Public safety is is number one here Mhmm.

而不是某些21岁年轻人在社交媒体上的帖子。

Not some twenty one year old social social media posts.

嗯。

Mhmm.

要明确告知，你不允许进去。

Make it very clear, you're not allowed to go in there.

那里对你来说不安全。

It's not safe for you to be there.

对那些被抓到进入那里的人处以巨额罚款，公众知道一旦被抓后果会非常昂贵，这很可能起到威慑作用，我觉得。

Slap huge fines on the people who get caught going in there, and that public knowledge of how expensive it could be if you get caught would probably serve as a deterrent, would think.

明确划出界限。

Draw the line clearly.

是的。

Yes.

但当人们，尤其是年轻人，喜欢去森林里，喜欢爬山采蘑菇的时候。

But when people are staying in the line, you know, young kids, they like to go to forests, they like to climb mountains with With mushrooms.

是的，他们就是会做一些相对无害的有趣活动。

Yes, they just do things and they just try the kind of fun activities that are relatively not that harmful to them.

所以如果你真的想这么做，首先要确保你没有违反任何法律或规定。

So if you really, really wanna do this, make sure, first of all, you're not breaking any laws or regulations.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你去的是那些被允许进入的地点，因为仍然有一些废弃的工厂并不那么危险，它们已经处于改造过程中，适合探索。

You're going to the sites that are allowed to go in because there are still some abandoned factories that are not that dangerous, that have already been in the process of being transformed and in the areas that can actually be explored.

探索时，也要确保你清楚自己在做什么。

Explored, also make sure you know what you're doing.

但我想，这正是年轻一代的特点，对吧？

But I guess that's the thing about the younger generation, isn't it?

是的。

Yeah.

我该去史蒂夫那儿。

I should go for Steve's.

我们并不是鼓励你这么做，我只是说，尽量确保安全，过程中不要违反任何法律。

Not we're not encouraging you to do this, by I'm the just saying try to be as safe as possible and do not break any laws in the process.

别去。

Don't.

如果你进行这些冒险活动，尽量别伤害自己。

And try stop hurting yourself if you are doing these adventurous kind of activities.

在社交媒体上，这里有个

And on social media, here's

一个好消息是，许多社交媒体平台，比如小红书、抖音，已经出现了‘城市废墟探索’这样的关键词。

a good news that many of these social media sites, the Shangshu, the Douyin, they're already showing up keywords like urban ruin exploration.

但下方会注明，未经充分准备就前往这些地点可能存在安全风险。

But underneath, it specifies visiting these locations without proper preparation may pose safety risks.

因此，它从你最初获取这些信息的源头提醒你：这里潜藏危险，

So it kind of remind you from the source of where you learn about these information in the first place that it harbors danger,

如果你还没准备好，就不要盲目模仿。

and do not copy if you're if if you are not ready.

城市管理部门也应查看这些帖子，并在这些地方设置‘禁止入内’的标识。

And city management, go see these posts and put up the do not go in sign at these places.

现在你有线索了。

Now you have the clue.

你正在收听《圆桌讨论》，接下来精彩继续。

You're listening to Roundtable coming up next.

你对潮流差距有什么看法？

What do you feel about the swag gap?

别走开。

Don't go away.

在寻找激情吗？

Looking for passion?

对激烈的辩论感兴趣吗？

How about fiery debate?

想从不同角度了解中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那就收听《圆桌派》，在这里，东西方交汇，理解是目标。

Then tune in to Roundtable, where east meets west and understanding is the goal.

本期《圆桌派》由我、倪恒林、史蒂夫·哈瑟利和余申共同主持。

It's roundtable with myself, Niang Heng Lin, Steve Hatherley, and Yu Shen.

想象一下走进一家酒吧，早已在脑海中勾勒出夜晚的感觉：音乐、灯光和氛围。

Imagine walking into a bar already picturing how the night will feel, the music, the lighting, the energy.

你为这一刻打扮好了。

You've dressed for the moment.

然后你的约会对象到了，突然间，氛围崩塌了。

Then your date arrives, and suddenly, the vibe collapses.

不是因为他们迟到了，而是因为他们对你来说很无礼。

Not because they're late, but because they're rude, in your opinion.

因为他们穿着的是完全不同的现实中的衣服。

It's because they are dressed for a completely different reality.

看似时尚上的不匹配，很快演变成更深层的感受——被忽视、不被理解，甚至被低估。

What looks like a fashion mismatch quickly becomes something heavier, a feeling of being unseen, unmirrored, maybe even undevaluated, undervalued.

这种不适现在有了一个名字，叫做‘风格差距’。

And that discomfort now has a name, the swag gap.

没错。

Yep.

风格差距。

The swag gap.

现在它已经火了。

It's gone viral now.

大家都在谈论它，这是对关系失衡的一种网络流行说法。

Everybody's talking about it, and it's the viral term for a relationship imbalance.

我们可以这么叫，当一方伴侣穿着非常时尚。

We can call it that, where one partner really dresses in a stylish fashion.

他们出门约会时会尽力打扮自己。

They try their best to get ready when they're going out for a date.

他们看起来很酷。

They look cool.

他们看起来很酷，而且很用心。

They look cool and they put effort into it.

而另一方在约会或这段关系中却毫不在意。

The other person on that date or in that relationship does not care.

穿着连帽衫和运动裤去听古典音乐会。

It's hoodie and sweatpants to a classical concert.

没有任何努力。

There's no effort.

这表明对这段关系毫无尊重，这就是所谓的‘风格差距’。

There's no sign of respect for the relationship, and that is viewed as the swag gap.

我很好奇。

I'm curious.

这个‘风格差距’对你重要吗，玉山？

Is swag gap important to you, Yushan?

我们说的是约会的哪个阶段？

Which phase of the date are we talking about?

这将是我第一个也是最重要的问题，因为这是第一次见面，我可能要和这个人建立一段长期的浪漫亲密关系。

That's going to be my first and biggest question because it's it's the first date, like, it's the first time ever that I meet this person and we're talking about maybe spending a relatively long time afterwards together in a romantic intimate relationship like that.

当我打扮得像去约会，而他却穿着像去健身房的样子，那我们讨论的就不只是约会着装的不匹配了。

And I'm dressing like I'm attending a date and he's dressing like as if he's going to the gym, then of course, that's we're not only talking about a mismatch of dating or dressing code now.

这是期望的不匹配。

It's a mismatch of expectation.

你付出的努力有多少，让我觉得和我相当。

How much efforts you are putting in as a way that I see as equal to me.

如果问我，这甚至可能上升到尊重的价值层面。

Even it can even goes all the way up to value of respect if you ask me.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

你把刚才的想法说完。

Finish your thought there.

嗯。

Yeah.

只是一个总结。

Just a conclusion.

所以，如果我们谈论的是约会的最初阶段，那就不重要。

So if some if we're talking about the very beginning phase of a date, then no.

这真的很重要。

That really matters.

是的。

Yeah.

抱歉打断你了。

Sorry to interrupt you there.

有些人觉得这是一件非常重要的事情。

And that's how some people feel about it is that it is quite an important thing.

网上有个人写了一篇博客，说他约了一个女孩，地点是在一家拉丁爵士酒吧。

There was a blog post on online by this guy who said that he had arranged a date with this girl, and it was at a Latin jazz bar.

这是在美国。

This is in America.

他为自己的穿着花了很多心思。

And he really put a a lot of thought into his attire.

他买了一件崭新的亮眼连帽衫，打扮得完全符合拉丁爵士酒吧的风格。

He got a new flashy hoodie, and he looked the part for a Latin jazz bar.

她穿着我可以说品牌名吗？

She showed up in can I say the brand name?

海绵鞋？

The Spongy Shoes?

你知道我说的是什么吗？

Do you know what I'm talking about?

我觉得

I think

差不多就是那种。

something like that.

配着踝袜，嗯。

With ankle socks Yeah.

还穿了紧身裤。

And some tights.

他却说：不行。

And he was like, no.

就是这样。

That's it.

他并没有在那一刻直接结束约会，但之后也没再见过她。

And he he didn't end the date right at that spot, but he also didn't see her again.

这件事其实有两种可能，顺便说一下。

This this can go both in ways both ways, by the way.

不管男生女生都一样。

It doesn't matter guy or girl.

但关键是，他觉得自己在穿着打扮上花了很多心思。

But the point is he felt like he put a lot of thought into getting ready in terms of his attire.

而她却一点都没用心，于是他想，显然这段关系不会成功，因为这反映了我们两人对自我呈现的不同态度。

She put no effort into it whatsoever, and he thought, well, this obviously isn't gonna work because these reflect our two different attitudes Mhmm.

关于如何展现自己。

About how to present ourselves.

是的。

Yes.

这样看来，如果有人在约会时根本不注重穿着，我觉得这可能会是个问题。

In this way, if someone puts in no effort in dressing up for the date, I think it could be a problem.

但如果只是时尚风格或审美不同呢？

But what if it's just different fashion style or different fashion aesthetics?

情侣看起来搭配真的那么重要吗？

Do does it really matter for a couple to look match?

答案可能是肯定的，也可能是否定的，因为风格，尤其是在初期，可以替代实质内容，因为它能为你提供一些初期共同话题，而那时你们还不太习惯进行深入的情感交流。

Well, the answer can be yes or no because style, especially in the beginning, it can substitute for substance because it might give you something to have in common in the beginning where you're not comfortable having deep relationship conversations yet.

对吧？

Right?

你们只是在互相了解。

And you're just getting to know each other.

如果你们喜欢同样的时尚风格，恰好穿着方式相似，即使付出的努力相同，这也会成为你们之间的共鸣时刻。

If you're into the same fashion, if you happen to dress the same way, even if you're putting in the same effort, then it's a bonding moment for for both of you.

没错。

Yeah.

社交媒体是每个人生活的一部分。

Social media is a part of everyone's lives.

所以如果你能发帖，你们之间就有了这种共同点。

So if you can post that, then you have that shared kind of thing as well.

我不是说这是对的还是错的。

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

我只是说，这现在是一个现实存在的现象。

I'm just saying it's a real thing right now.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是一个现实。

It is a real thing.

当两个人之间不存在这种共同点时，他们会认为这代表彼此之间没有任何联系。

And when it doesn't exist between two people, they see it as potential for there's nothing there.

但这不仅存在于约会世界中。

But it's not only in the dating world.

名人圈里也发生着同样的事情，当一对情侣

It's happening in the celebrity world as well when a couple

比如贾斯汀·比伯。

And is Justin Bieber.

他们在一起了。

Is fiend together.

是的。

Yeah.

贾斯汀·比伯。

Justin Bieber.

所以他的妻子海莉·比伯，她为什么会知道这么多关于这个的事？

So she Hailey Bieber, his wife, she went to why do I know so much about this?

没错。

Exactly.

她

She

她要去参加一个活动，是她的美妆品牌还是她旗下的某个公司，她穿得很正式，像一件漂亮的晚礼服之类的，而他却只穿着袜子和拖鞋，别的什么都没穿。

was going to an event for her is it makeup brand or some whatever company she has, and so she was dressed in, like, a really nice evening dress or whatever, and he had on socks and slippers and nothing else.

网友们评论说：‘现在说对不起是不是太晚了？’

And people the quote online was, is it too late to say sorry?

这其实是贾斯汀·比伯的一首歌名。

Which is a Justin Bieber song title.

哦。

Oh.

人们还说：‘这里差距太大了。’

And people were saying like, swag gap here.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但还有另一个例子。

But then there's another example.

她叫什么来着？

What's her name?

赛琳娜·戈麦斯。

Selena Gomez.

她的丈夫是本尼·布兰科，那位DJ和制作人，我想是这样。

Her husband is Benny Blanco, the DJO and producer, I wanna say.

总之，她上了深夜脱口秀，打扮得非常精致。

Anyway, she went on this talk show late at night, and she was dressed to the nines.

对吧？

Right?

而他也在那里。

And he was there.

他看起来像是两分钟前才从床上爬起来，但他们毫不在意。

He looked like he rolled out of bed two minutes ago, and they don't care.

至于贾斯汀·比伯和海莉·比伯，不管她是否在意，我也不清楚。

And Justin Bieber and Hailey Bieber, whether she cares or not, I don't know.

但名人之间也存在风格差距。

But Swag Gap exists with famous people too.

这正是我想问的。

That's what I was trying to ask.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种现象在约会世界中存在，在名人中也同样存在。

It exists in the dating world, exists with famous people as well.

是因为社交媒体被放大了吗？

And is it because it's amplified by social media?

是的。

Yeah.

你经常看到社交媒体上流行的‘我男朋友风格’或‘我男朋友穿我的风格’，他们并不是真的让男人穿女装，而是看他如果更契合我的风格会是什么样子。

You see a lot of the social media trend of me in my boyfriend style or my boyfriend in my style, and they're trying to not really put on girls clothes on a guy, but rather how he will look if he is more of a match with my style.

所以这衍生出很多不同的变化。

So that goes into many variations.

我不会一一列举，但你能看到这种趋势：人们希望看起来是一对视觉上匹配的伴侣。

I'm not going to list all of them, but you see this whole trend of people wanting to be seen as a good visual match.

嗯。

Yeah.

他们说，那些在社交媒体上过度这么做的人，其实是在说：看，我们多般配。

And they say that the people who do that too much on social media, it's kind of like saying, like, look how good a match we are.

看，我们多幸福。

Look how happy we are.

看到了吗？

See?

看到了吗？

See?

看到了吗？

See?

我们很幸福。

We're happy.

我们很幸福。

We're happy.

莎士比亚说过，女子抗议得太过分了。

Shakespeare, the lady doth protest too much.

如果你说得太多太多次，它就会变得不真实。

If you say it too too many times, it becomes dis Wrong.

虚伪，没错。

Disingenuous Yeah.

到了一定程度后。

After a point.

但不得不说，这不仅关乎时尚本身，还关乎整体生活方式。

But there's something to be said, you know, not just about the fashion aspect of it, but about just lifestyle in general.

人们认为，你的时尚品味能反映你个性和生活方式的很大一部分。

People are saying that your fashion could reflect a large part of your of your personality and your and your lifestyle choices as well.

你想一想去约会一个人。

You know, think about trying to date somebody.

如果你是个周末上午十一点才起床、爱吃深夜芝士汉堡的人，而你的伴侣却五点就起床去玉山，你会说：‘哦，这听起来真棒。’

If you're like if you're like a weekend 11AM riser and a late night cheeseburger eater and your partner is up at 5AM to Yushan was just like, oh, that sounds amazing.

但你的伴侣是早起五点做瑜伽的人，你们在生活方式上肯定会产生冲突，如果这样那会怎样

But your but your partner is like a 5AM riser to do yoga classes, you're gonna run into that might might conflict lifestyleistically, What if that's a

我本来想问，在关系初期，你们还在约会阶段，会存在一种风格差距。

I was trying to ask, in the early stage of a relationship, you're still in the dating phase, and there's the swag gap.

那就是生活方式的差异。

There's the difference in lifestyle.

还有消费习惯的差异。

There is the difference in consumption.

此外，彼此之间在价值观、甚至政治立场和成长期望上也存在差异。

There's also a difference in, for example, values and even politics and grow expectations between each other.

还有你们的沟通方式、语言风格上的差异，对吧。

There's the difference in, you know, language register, the way you communicate Yeah.

在某些你真正喜爱、珍视的亚文化或小众圈子里。

In some micro or subculture that you really enjoy, you really value.

而且

And

在恋爱初期，尤其是对当今中国和世界各地的年轻人来说，最重要的因素是什么？

what are the most important element in the early stage of a dating world, especially to the younger people, the younger generation nowadays in China and around the world?

你认为最重要的因素是什么？

What do you think is the most important?

或者从个人角度来说，能够合理沟通的能力。

Or even personally, the ability to be able to communicate reasonably.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我的意思是，是的。

Mean, yes.

我不能代表所有年轻人，但我还是来回答一下。

I don't represent all the young people out there, but I'm answering it.

那就是我的

And that's my

答案。

answer.

被高估了。

Overrated.

不。

No.

那个不是。

That no.

我的意思是，在最最最最开始的时候。

I mean, in the very, very, very, very beginning.

我认为在最最开始的时候

I think in the very, very beginning

眼见为实？

What meets the eye?

是的。

Yeah.

你是说它们很热吗？

Are they hot, do you mean?

是的。

Yeah.

相互吸引，还有共同的谈话话题，我觉得。

Mutual attraction, but also shared shared talking points, I think.

再说，这可以是任何事情。

Again, that can be just anything.

这可以是社交媒体。

That can be social media.

这可以是时尚。

That can be fashion.

这可以是生活方式、食物，等等。

That can be lifestyle, food, whatever.

就是共享任何东西

Just shared shared whatever

嗯。

Mhmm.

这样他们才能进入第二阶段。

So that they can get to that second stage.

我认为，无论你重视什么，只要你的伴侣也重视，那就对了。

And I think no matter what you value, as long as your partner also values it the Yeah.

大多数情况下都是有效的。

Most it works.

好了，告诉我们你对今天的话题有什么看法，因为今天的话题已经结束了。

Well, let us know how do you think about today's topics because it is already the end of today's table.

下次再见，继续保持对话，让想法不断涌现。

Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.

我是尹洪林，和史蒂夫、艾shan一起。

I'm Yeon Hong Lin with Steve and Eishan.