女性创业：激情、使命与地球

讨论让世界运转不息。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌论坛。这里是圆桌论坛。我是史蒂夫·哈瑟利，今天与牛红林和玉山一同主持节目。接下来，南极探险如何为人在北京领导可持续发展事业做好准备？圆桌论坛的何杨与Wildbound.Earth创始人宋超瑶进行了对话。

This is Roundtable. This is Roundtable. I'm Steve Hatherley together today with Niu Hong Lin and Yushan. Coming up, how does an expedition to Antarctica prepare someone to lead a sustainability venture in Beijing? Roundtable's He Yang sat down with Song Chao Yao, the founder of Wildbound dot Earth.

她是一位领导者，其道路与使命同样独特。在这个关于开创性年轻女性的特别系列首期节目中，我们将探索探索精神如何激发一位企业家应对地球最大挑战的动力。不要错过这次对话。我们的播客听众可以在苹果播客上搜索Roundtable China找到我们。别忘了，我们期待听到您的反馈。

She's a leader whose path is as unique as her mission. In the first of a special series on groundbreaking young women, we explore how a spirit of exploration fuels one entrepreneur's drive to tackle our planet's biggest challenges. Don't miss the chat. Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget, we love hearing from you.

我们喜欢听到您的声音。所以请将您的语音片段发送给我们，分享您对节目中讨论的任何议题的想法。具体操作方法是：发送至Roundtable播客@qq.com。

We love hearing your voice. So send those voice clips our way with any of the thoughts that you may have on any of the issues that we discuss here on the program. Program. Here's how you do it. Roundtable podcast at qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtable播客@qq.com。现在，要构建一个人与地球共同繁荣的未来需要什么？在中国即将主办一场重要的全球妇女峰会，反思自1995年世界妇女大会以来三十年的进展之际，我们圆桌论坛将推出一系列与塑造这一未来的下一代女性领导者的对话。在第一期节目中，何杨采访了北京Wildbound.Earth创业项目的推动者宋超瑶女士。我们将追溯她从南极洲广阔脆弱的生态系统开展研究，到将这些经验应用于中国可持续发展运动核心的非传统道路。

Once again, roundtable podcast at qq.com. And now, what does it take to build a future where people and the planet can both thrive? As China prepares to host a major global women's summit reflecting on three decades of progress since the nineteen ninety five world conference, we here at roundtable are launching a series of conversations with the next generation of female leaders shaping that future. In this first installment, He Yang spoke with miss Song Chao Yao, the entrepreneurial force behind the Beijing based venture called Wildbound dot Earth. We'll trace her unconventional path from conducting research in the vast fragile ecosystems of Antarctica to applying those lessons at the heart of China's sustainability movement.

我们将发现她亲历的环境变化如何塑造了一种务实而有目标的商业方法，证明勇气和好奇心可以成为创业的强大基础。请欣赏他们的对话。

We'll discover how her firsthand witness, to environmental change informs a practical and purposeful purposeful approach to business proving that courage and curiosity can be a powerful foundation for entrepreneurship. Please enjoy their chat.

宋超，欢迎来到圆桌论坛。

Song Chao, welcome to Roundtable.

谢谢。真的很高兴能来到这里。

Thank you. Really nice to be here.

我注意到你在WildBound公司的头衔是首席探索官。这可不是我们每天都能听到的称呼。我们有CEO、CFO，但首席探索官？听起来既大胆又有趣，还充满深意。这个角色对你意味着什么？你如何在工作中体现它？

I noticed that your title at WildBound, your company, is chief explorer. Now that's not something we hear every day. We've got CEOs, the CFOs, but chief explorer? That sounds bold, fun, and deeply intentional. So what does that role mean to you, and how do you embody it in your work?

我认为我天生具有探索精神。WildBound创立之初，我们就致力于带领人们进行冒险与探索——不仅是探索自然荒野，还包括我们的内心世界。通过与自然的互动体验，我们也能改变自我。作为WellBound的创始人，我必须践行这种精神。我的角色就是持续探索、发现和学习的过程。这就是为什么选择这个头衔——我不想只做个高管或经理。

I think, naturally, I have a spirit of exploration, and so much of WildBound when we were started, we're trying to take people on these adventures and exploration, and the exploration not only of nature of wilderness, but also of our inner landscape. So throughout our experiences interacting with nature, we can also change ourselves. And then as someone who started WellBound, I have to embody that spirit. So there is a constant exploration, discovery, and learning that happens in my role. So that's why this is the title because I didn't want to just be an executive or manager.

我真正想做的是引领、激励并支持我们所服务的人们，共同经历这场探索之旅。

I actually want to lead, to inspire, and to support the people we serve in this experience of exploration together.

能否详细介绍一下WildBound？它被描述为一家受自然启发的创新教育及可持续发展咨询企业。你如何将教育、商业和环保领域的工作结合起来？

And could you tell us a little bit more about WildBound? It's described, as an innovative nature inspired education and sustainability consulting venture. Could you walk us through the kind of work you do and how you bridge education, business, and all this environmental stuff?

好的。这段旅程已经持续八年了。本质上，在创立WildBound之前，我刚从商学院毕业，但被选中参加由77位全球女性科学家组成的南极科考队。考察结束后，我还继续留在那里。

Yeah. Sure. It it's been a a story of eight years already. But, essentially, before I started WildBound, I actually just graduated from business school, but I was selected to be a expedition with 77 women scientists from all over the world to Antarctica. And after the expedition, I also stayed on.

我总共花了四个月时间往返南美和南极，那段经历对我影响深远。在南极时，我仿佛听到某种召唤——需要让更多人拥有这样的体验。因此创立WellBound时，我们专注于打造荒野体验，支持人们踏上认知自然、见证气候变化影响的旅程，让他们在广阔天地中真正与自然建立连接。是的，我们也经历了疫情禁足的那几年。

So altogether, I spent about four months going back between South America and Antarctica, and that four months was very formative for me. And I felt like I received, you know, this calling from when I was in Antarctica that you need to support more people to have experiences like this. So when I started WellBound, we were very focused on creating experiences in the wilderness and supporting people to go through a journey where they learn about nature and they witness the impacts of climate change, and they're also in that open space where they can actually really connect with nature. Yeah. We went through the COVID years of no travel.

所以，基本上，那些年与我们同赴南极的人们，包括学生、教师、商界人士，他们回来后告诉我们，在这个充满不确定性的时代，我们该如何转型？于是从那时起，我们开始了更多系统层面的咨询与转型工作。我们协助学校和企业在可持续发展战略上进行调整，推动整个业务向更环保、更贴近自然的方向转变。如今，我们还支持由教育工作者、建筑师、设计师及采用再生理念的企业组成的多元社群。我们甚至不满足于可持续性，因为这仅仅是维持现状。

So, basically, in those years, the people who have gone with us to Antarctica, and these include students, teachers, business people, they came back to us and said, you know, in this time of great uncertainty, how can we transition? And so then from then on, we started more system level, this consulting and transformation work. So we have worked with schools and with businesses to adopt sustainability strategy and transform their whole business to be more environmental friendly, to be more connected to nature. And nowadays, we also support different communities of educators, of architects and designers, of businesses that are adopting a regenerative approach. So we're not even satisfied with sustainability because that's just maintaining the status quo.

我们希望从一开始就创造价值。这种再生的新模式也意味着Wellbound自身经历了数次再生。如今我们仍专注于深度体验策划，同时也支持再生社群的发展。我们帮助这些社群孵化项目、共同学习，这些不同的网络也相互交织。是的，我们的工作充满创造力和适应性，不仅在中国，也在东南亚开展业务。

We want to create value from the very beginning. So this new model of regenerating, which also meant that Wellbound has been regenerating a few times. So now we still focus on those deep experience curation, but we also support communities of regeneration. We support these communities to come up with projects, to learn together, and these different networks also intersect. So, yeah, there's a lot of, creativity and adaptability in the work we do, and we work, in China, but also in Southeast Asia.

去年我们还在伦敦设立了一个小办事处。

And last year, we also started a small office in London.

好的。从你所讲述的内容来看，这确实是一个迷人的融合——将自然、教育、社群、战略等诸多元素交织在一起。你已游历60多个国家，包括16次南极探险，覆盖了惊人的地域与冰原。是什么激发了你的探索热情？这种热情又如何塑造了你对生活、领导力、你的公司乃至这个星球的看法？

Alright. Well, it is a fascinating blend just by what you are, speaking to us about and bringing together nature, education, community, strategy, and so many things. And you've traveled to over 60 countries, including 16 expeditions to Antarctica. That's remarkable amount of ground and ice covered. What fuels your passion for exploration, and how has it shaped your perspective on life, leadership, your company, and, I suppose, the planet?

是的。许多探索都与我从事的环保工作相关，比如考察大河、支持农业项目、观察气候变化对当地社区的影响。在环保领域的职业生涯中，我曾在非政府组织工作，

Yeah. So, a lot of these exploration are related to the work I did in environmental protection. So they were visits to big rivers, supporting agriculture projects, and going to see impacts of climate change on local community. So I really realized that throughout my career in environmental protection, protection, I I worked worked in in NGOs. NGOs.

参与过政策制定和研究工作。正是这些经历让我领悟到，驱动我的是对世界现状的深切关注与好奇。我亲眼目睹了自然界的瑰丽，也见证了它遭受的破坏，这激发了我保护自然的热情。我觉得自己能造访这么多地方非常幸运，而这些经历反复印证着同一个信息：我们与河流、沙漠、雨林并非割裂的，当下的所作所为与星球的现状有着深刻关联。

I I worked worked in in policy, policy, in research. It is through these experiences that I learned. So what filled it was this deep connection and curiosity about what is going on in our world, and I think the firsthand witness of some of the beauty, but also some of the destruction that's happening to nature has fueled this passion for for working to protect nature. So I think there's, yeah, there's a lot of places that I feel very privileged to have visited. And I think they again, again, it comes back to the same message that we're not separated from the rivers, the deserts, the rainforest, and there's a deep connection between what we're doing now and how the planet is at the moment.

因此通过WildBound，我希望能有更多中国人获得类似体验。不一定是南极，哪怕是一小片自然区域，或是每年从澳大利亚飞往北京的候鸟，这些自然规律与美景都是我们所属的更宏大网络的一部分。嗯。所以我认为探索滋养关怀，而关怀催生行动。

So I I really you know, through WildBound, I wish more people from China can have similar experiences. But even if it's it doesn't have to be Antarctica, even if it's a small patch of nature, even if it's just the birds that, you know, come from Australia to Beijing every year, these patterns and this beauty of nature, which is a part of, like, this bigger network that we're in. Mhmm. So yeah. So I think the exploration supports the care, and the care supports the action.

然后，这个行动会再次吸引更多人加入这些联系。

And then the action will take more people on those connection, again.

是的。你这样的说法让我对旅行的意义有了新的认识。你所说的与自然深刻相连，而不仅仅是从日常生活中的一种逃离。你去旅行，几乎就像是在倾听自然、倾听风景、倾听人们，甚至可能是倾听我们自己。近年来，我想我们很多人都能共鸣，我们真的需要自然，不能长时间被困在室内。

Yeah. The way you put it really sheds some new light for me on the thought of travel. You what you say is so deeply connected with nature, and it's not sort of just an escape from your everyday routine. But you go, and it's almost like a form of listening to nature, to landscapes, to people, maybe even to ourselves. I mean, in recent years, I think a lot of us can resonate with, we really need a nature, and we can't be cooped up inside for too long.

从创立公司到穿越未知的地形，这些都不是容易的路，也不是每个人都敢走的。在你看来，女性在领导和创业这样的角色中，带来了哪些独特的优势和可能的挑战？

From founding a company to trekking through uncharted terrains, these aren't easy paths, and not everyone dares to take them. In your view, what unique strengths and perhaps challenges do women bring to roles like yours in leadership and entrepreneurship?

我同意，开始任何事情都有很多不确定性。我认为经营一家非常独特、非传统商业模式的公司需要很多适应。我认为女性天生具有关系建立的优势。我们擅长建立关系，擅长讲述

I agree that there's, to start anything, there's a lot of uncertainty. And I think to run a company that's quite unique, that's not, a conventional business model requires a lot of adaptation. I think women have a natural way of relational strength. So we're we're good at relating. We're good at telling

故事。特别是对我来说，我们的工作方式还包括进入一个系统、一个社区、自然，首先建立联系，然后真正理解需求并回应需求，与他人协作。这与传统的商业模式非常不同，比如开辟新领域、建立模型、复制、扩大规模。老实说，我并不认为这是唯一成功和做事的方式，实际上，这已经对自然造成了很大的破坏。我们常说，我们称地球为母亲，而不是父亲。

stories. And and I think particularly for me, the way that we work is also by going into a system, going into a community, going into nature and first build connection, and then trying to really understand the need and respond to the need and working with other people in collaboration. And this is very different from the traditional business of, like, opening a new field and setting up a model, multiplying, scaling. And to be honest, I don't really agree with that as the only way of success and of doing things, and, actually, that has caused a lot of destruction to nature. And we often say that you know, we call mother earth, not father earth.

对吧？所以我们几乎把自然看作是一个女性存在，而我们却未能给予大自然母亲每天给予我们的关怀。尽管有污染，尽管有破坏，我们每天仍有新鲜的空气。我们仍有鸟儿和树木，自然仍在支持我们。所以，这种充满希望、关怀的自然就是地球给予我们的。

Right? So we think about nature almost as a feminine being, and we fail to give the care that mother nature has been giving us every day. Even though there's pollution, even though there's destruction, we still have fresh air every day. We still, you know, have birds and trees, and nature still is supporting for us. So in a way, this hopeful, this caring nature is is what the planet offers us.

我认为作为女性，当我们注意到这是应对挑战的方式，尤其是人与人之间可能出现的困难问题时，我认为互动的方式是真正带着意图和深切关怀出现。至少这是我一直尝试的方式。并不是说这不困难。有很多挑战的时刻，但我认为女性也相当坚韧，因为我们经历了很多。你知道，我们的祖先、祖父母、祖母、母亲，女性经历了很多困难，但仍能传承智慧。

And I think as women, when we pay attention to how that's the way to respond to challenges we have, to difficult issues that can arise, especially between people, I think the way to interact and to really show up with intention and with deep care. At least that's how I've tried to do it. Not saying that it's not difficult. There's been many challenging moments, but I think women are also quite resilient because we have endured a lot. You know, our ancestors, our grandparents, our grandmothers, our mothers, there's a lot of hardship that women can go through but still carry wisdom, that could be passed on.

因此，女性通常是社区、传统和智慧的守护者。

So women are usually holders of communities, of traditions, of wisdom.

而且

And

你所做的事情非常具有创新性。我认为这无疑是在开辟新路径，与你通常对初创公司的期待截然不同。你会将自己归类为初创公司还是咨询机构？或者用一个词来定义的话，实际上你会选择哪个词？

what you do is very innovative. Certainly, it's charting new paths, I believe. It's very different from what you usually expect from a start up. Would you categorize yourself as a start up or consultancy? Or if you had to use one word, what would that be actually?

我认为我们是一个实验室。

I think we're a lab.

我很喜欢这个说法。能否稍作展开？为什么称它为实验室？

I love that idea. Could you elaborate on it a little bit? Why would you call it a lab?

因为正如我提到的，我们持续在探索、实验和测试。我们不会固守任何提出的方案。例如，我们曾与企业合作推动转型并踏上可持续发展之旅，但我们未必想为一百家公司重复这个过程。如果一家公司能影响十家，我们就支持他们去实践。

Because we're constantly, as I mentioned, exploring and experimenting and testing. We do not hold on to anything that we come up with. For example, we have worked with businesses and have transformed and went on a sustainability journey. We don't necessarily want to do that for a 100 companies. If this company can influence 10, then we support them to go with it.

明白吗？我们支持过中国的学校变得更可持续，但我们不想仅仅作为咨询机构说‘好了，现在我们要申请专利，这是我们的方法论’。我们希望开放这些方法，让更多人能够采用。

You know? And we have supported schools in China to be more sustainable to be sustainable, but we don't want to just be a consultancy and say, okay. Now we're we're going to patent. This is our way of approach. We want to open it so more people can have it.

我认为是因为我们始终热爱创新、学习和改进，这对我们实验室来说更好，保持小规模并始终处于学习和创新的前沿。

I think because we constantly love to innovate and learn and improve, and that's better for us as a lab and keep small and to actually be always on the edge of learning and innovating.

是的。你还提到你们会带人们去野外，进行探险活动。这通常不是我联想到实验室会做的事，但你们的工作确实有户外的一面，是与自然的直接接触。

Yeah. And you also mentioned that you bring people to the wild, right, on expeditions as well. So I think that's not what I would usually associate with a lab, but there's this outdoorsy side of what you do, and it's a direct encounter with nature.

没错。实验室不在建筑物里。

Yeah. The lab is not inside the building.

它就在外面的世界里。

It's out there in there.

对，对。

Yeah. Yeah.

这就是实验室。

It's a lab.

是啊。在这个问题上你得跳出思维定式。看，有了这些绝妙的想法和某种程度上的实验方式来实现这些目标，你是否曾觉得作为女性，在争取资金支持、推销理念或与客户沟通时会遇到挑战？这是否可能与性别有关？我很好奇想听听你的看法。

Yeah. You gotta think outside of the box in that one. See, with these wonderful ideas ideas and sort of experiments in a way on how to do these things, do you ever feel that you, as a woman, may be trying to secure funding or selling the idea, communicating with clients, do you ever feel there are challenges? Might that have something to do with gender? I'm just curious to hear your perspective.

确实如此。我认为性别是一种你可以选择戴上的透镜。即使在自然环境保护领域，也有许多女性在此工作。我认为社会部门工作者中女性占多数，但决策者往往是男性，且通常是来自欧美等更发达国家的年长男性。国际规范或公约的组织方式仍基于特定结构，这些结构更符合我们当前世界的状态——资本主义且父权制的。

Absolutely. I think gender is a lens that you can choose to to put on. And even in the field of nature, environmental protection, there's a lot of women working in this field. I think the majority of people who work in the social sector are women, but the decision makers are often men, and the decision makers are often older men who maybe come from European, US, even more developed countries. And the way that international norm or convention is organized is still based on particular structures that really speaks more to our current state of the world, which is capitalistic and it's patriarchal.

因此，我认为尤其在刚起步时，我能看到许多关于如何以特定方式行事的要求，通常是主流方式。但这八年的经验让我更加自信，因为我变得更加灵活和适应性强。如果当初听从了几年前质疑我的投资者，我们在疫情期间无法旅行的那段时期就会彻底崩溃。如果我们完全变成咨询公司并依赖人才，就无法应对当前截然不同的地缘政治格局和艰难经济环境的需求。实际上，通过更灵活开放，我得以挑战主流。我意识到许多领导者和决策者也深陷忧虑，因为当今许多庞大体系正受到挑战。

So, of course, I think, especially when I was just starting off, I could see that there was a lot of requirements or requests for how to do things in a particular way and often, like, the mainstream way. But I do think this eight years of experience have taught me to be more confident because I have been more agile and adaptable because I you know, if I followed some investors who questioned me in the first three years a while back, we would have completely collapsed during COVID because there was time period of no travel. And if we completely became a consultancy and really relied on talent, then we are not able to respond to the needs right now of a very different geopolitical landscape and a difficult economic climate. So I think, actually, by being more adaptable, being more open, I have been able to challenge the the mainstream. And I realized that there are a lot of the leaders and decision makers are also in deep worry because a lot of the big systems these days are being challenged.

几乎无法用传统旧方法挽救这些体系。所以我感觉，挑战确实存在，但当你试图迎合他们的要求时才会出现。如果我们提供新路径，这就不是挑战而是新视角。不过有时，年长些且经验更丰富，在提供不同解决方案方面并未给我更多优势。

And there is no way to save it almost in the traditional in the old way. So I feel like, yes, there are challenges, but the challenges comes when you are trying to match their you know, what is required of you. But we offer a new path, then it's not a challenge. It's a new perspective. But sometimes, you know, being a little bit older now and having more experiences gives me no more advantage in trying to provide that different solution.

我想几年前刚开始且更年轻时会更困难，但这些都是学习历程的一部分。

I think for a few years earlier when I was just starting off and when I was younger, it was harder. But this was all part of learning journey.

许多我交谈过的成功女性常提到，她们更希望被认可为有能力的专业人士、领导者和专家，而非女性身份。比如一位能干的CEO，而不必强调女性CEO，但性别仍影响经历。你如何看待这种张力？它是否出现在你的历程中，你是如何应对的？

Many of the successful women I've spoken with often mention that they'd rather be recognized as capable professionals, leaders, and experts, not female ones. So a capable CEO, for example, not necessarily a female CEO, yet gender still shapes experiences. And how do you see this tension, or do you feel this tension? Has it shown up in your journey, and how have you navigated it?

几周前我与一位非常敬佩的女性领袖交谈，她说不想成为拥有女性身体的男性CEO。很多时候我们说'我只想被看作有能力的CEO'，但什么是有能力的CEO？每个人的看法不同。我认为优秀领导者应兼具阳刚与阴柔特质，但世界上我们看到的多是更具阳刚气的男性领导者，他们通常非常强势。

I was talking to someone, a a female leader I really admire a few weeks ago, and she said to me that she doesn't want to be a male CEO in a female body. And I think a lot of the times when we talk about, oh, I, you know, I just want to be seen as a capable CEO, but what is a capable CEO everyone's perspective? And I think a good leader should demonstrate both masculine and feminine qualities, but so much of what we see in the world, the men the the leaders are more masculine. Right? And they're they're usually, like, very strong.

他们有明确议程，富有说服力和魅力。但我们未能充分赞颂那些关怀、人际关系和深刻人性化的方面。我理解那些不愿被称为女性CEO、女性科学家或女性探险家的人，因为这几乎是在贬低——仿佛因为我是女性才值得庆祝，而实际上我本身就足够优秀。

They have a clear agenda. They're persuasive. They're charismatic. But we don't celebrate enough the caring, the relational, the deeply human aspect of that. And I understand people who say, don't want to be called the female CEO or the female scientist or the female explorer because that's almost disqualifying me because because I am women, I'm able to be celebrated, but I'm actually as capable.

但我想提出另一种思考方式：作为女性领导者，我能带来哪些额外优势。正因我是女性，或许更多人愿意与我交谈，我维系着更多社群关系，也提供了更具创意的解决方案。

But I want to suggest that maybe another way of thinking it is what more advantage I can bring to the table as a female leader. And because I am a female leader, there's maybe more people who feel comfortable talking to me. There's more communities that I'm holding. There's more creative ways I'm providing. Yeah.

所以我认为不必纠结于称谓问题，而应思考你为领导力注入了哪些特质。女性能为整个领域贡献巨大价值，但这些常被忽视。事实上，这些女性领导特质能有效应对当今的挑战。

So I feel like not really just stacking getting stuck on the term of how one should be called, but actually in thinking through what are the qualities you bring in leadership. And I think women have a lot to provide value for this whole field. And I feel like that's sometimes not talked about or not recognized. And I actually but I think these feminine leadership qualities can really support, the challenges we're facing today.

你提到的现象确实复杂。那些传统认为'女性化'的特质在职场常被低估，但它们对优秀领导力至关重要。当女性在领域脱颖而出时，媒体和公众的'女性'标签往往掩盖了其他成就，这让奋斗者感到自身价值未被真正看见。

I think what you're alluding to is something very complicated. I do agree that there are so many female, let's just say, quote unquote, female qualities, traditional believed as feminine, that are not really prioritized or given the positive visibility sometimes in the professional world when these are actually very essential for good leadership. But sometimes in, let's say, the media or how the public views a female who's very successful standing out in her particular field because the female tag almost shadows everything else. And then I understand that the person, the individual who worked so hard to get to that place feels almost as if, you know, my worth is not being seen, and you're only seeing me as a woman. And I can understand how frustrating that could be.

是的，我理解这种感受。我们如此使用这个词汇确实令人遗憾。

Yeah. I I I understand that. And I I think it's, yeah. It it's sad that we use this term in that way. You know?

即使谈论'女科学家'或'女CEO'，本质上仍在贬低女性特质——因为这种称谓本身就在暗示某种遮蔽。但真正促成成功的，是兼具阳刚与阴柔特质的综合能力。

Even talking about a female scientist or a female CEO, you're still downplaying the feminine. Right? Because you're you're still thinking that, yeah, that it's it that overshadows. But what is overshadowing? So I I feel like it's the qualities that enable the success is has both masculine and feminine and has the capability.

但我们也不能抹去自身的重要部分，假装自己是无性别的存在。

But I also feel like we cannot we cannot kind of delete different parts of our being to say, you know, I am a ungendered person who just is

那违背了我们的本质，也完全违反自然规律。

And that's just not who we are. Yeah. And that's really against nature.

是的。所以我们认可的是完整的人，而不仅仅是女性或男性，也不仅仅是科学家。嗯。

Yeah. So we recognize the whole person rather than just a female or just just a male or just a scientist. Mhmm.

是的，我明白你的意思。那么你是否认为回馈社会是作为创始人责任的一部分，尤其是像你这样拥有全球教育和经历的人？在你看来，年轻专业人士可以通过哪些有意义的方式为周围世界做出贡献，回馈社会？

Yeah. I see what you mean. And do you see giving back as part of your responsibility as a founder, especially someone who's had access to global education and experiences? In your view, what's one meaningful way young professionals can contribute to the world around them, giving back to society?

是的。我认为，创立WildBound的初衷本身就是一种服务行为，是对人类及我们与自然连接的贡献。而且我认为回馈并不受年龄或经验的限制。有很多微小的善意举动、关怀行为、回馈方式人们都可以做到。所以即使是刚起步的年轻专业人士，也可以支持身边的社区。

Yeah. I I think, you know, the whole premise of starting WildBound was a a act of service, a contribution to to human and to our connection to nature. And I don't think there's a limitation on age or experience to give back. I think there's a lot of small gestures of kindness, of care, of giving back that people can do. So even as young professionals, when you're just starting off, you know, you can support the community around you.

你可以参与与你本职工作不完全相关的事业。你可以支持年轻人。你可以尝试开辟看待世界的新视角。所以方式多种多样，而且我确实认为自然是相互的，互惠也是我们天性的一部分。当我们学习时，当我们接受时，我们也在回馈。

You could be engaged in causes that's not exactly your professional work. You can support young people. You can try to open up new ways of seeing the world. So there's there's multiple ways, and I I do think nature is reciprocal, and reciprocity is part of our nature as well. And when we are learning, when we're receiving, then we're also giving back.

我年轻时，很多资深专业人士，比如导师们，都曾支持过我。当我问如何回报他们时，他们总是说'把这份善意传递下去'？所以我也总是对年轻人说，当你获得支持时，就把这份善意传递下去。这样我们就能开启一个创造支持与关怀的良性循环。

When I was younger, a lot of older professionals, like mentors, they would support me. And then when, you know, when I asked how can I pay it back to them, they always say pay it forward? So I always say that to young people that, you know, when you receive support, then you pay it forward. And in that way, we start this this virtuous loop of creating support and care all around us.

对于那些仍在探索自己激情的年轻人，或者那些还不确定方向、不敢大胆梦想或真正付诸行动去追随梦想的人，你有什么建议？他们该如何建立勇气和清晰的思路，将激情和梦想转化为人生目标？

For young people out there or just folks out there who are still figuring out their passions, maybe they're unsure of their direction or hesitant to dream big or really commit to the action of following that dream, what would you offer? How can they build courage and clarity to turn passion and the dream into purpose?

是的。我认为现在的年轻人承受着巨大压力，要他们尽早找到方向、明确激情所在。他们被灌输了一种迷思——每个人都应该在二十多岁时就清楚自己要做什么并开始投入，然后在三十多岁时取得巨大成功。但我不认为历史上多数人都是如此。我觉得自己的黄金岁月还未到来。我真心相信，到了五六十岁时，我们才能真正沉淀经验与智慧来分享。

Yeah. I think young people today are under a lot of pressure to find their direction and to know what their passion is and to realize that at a young age, and they have this I think they're fed a myth that everyone should know what they're doing and start committing in their twenties and then be very successful in their thirties. And I don't think that's true for most human being in history. I think my good years are yet to come. I really feel like, you know, by the age 50 or 60, we will really be able to crystallize our experience and our wisdom to share.

但我仍然认为，在所有这些年轻岁月里，真正重要的是全身心投入、保持专注并关心你所做的事情，而不是坐等激情和梦想的到来。但当你有了梦想，有了火花和激情时，行动起来、与人交流、写下想法、进行小规模试验并坚持下去就变得至关重要，因为年轻人充满活力。将这种能量引导到行动、运动以及与他人的互动中，而非将其封闭起来转化为内心的冲突和挣扎，这才是真正重要的。不过这一切需要时间。在旅程之初，我们常常不知道去向何方，也不明白整个旅程的意义，但它会逐渐、温和地自我展开。

But I still think that in all of these younger years, it is really important to really commit and be intentional and care about the things that you're doing and not waiting around for the passion and for the dream. But when you have a dream, when you have a spark and a passion, it's really important to act on it, talk to people about it, write about it, test, and do a small experiment, and to keep going because young people have a lot of energy. And it's really important to channel this energy into action, into movement, into interactions with other people rather than boxing it in and turning it inward into difficult, you know, kind of internal conflict and struggles. But it takes time. So at the beginning of a journey, we often don't know where we're going and what this whole journey is about, but it will gently, gradually unfold itself.

所以我认为年轻人需要保持信念，有时也可以邀请未来的自己来支持你。想象当你50岁、90岁甚至千岁时，会给自己什么建议——你内心本就拥有寻找梦想、实现激情的全部力量。

So I think young people kind of have the faith and ask sometimes you can also ask your older self to come and support you. You know, imagine when you're 50 year old, when you're 90 year old, even when you're a thousand year old, what would advice you would give to yourself, and you have all that strength and that power within you to to find your dream, to realize your passion.

你给了我们很多思考方向——从探索中寻找定位，到构建反映你关切的事业。在这个快速变化的世界里，听到目标与节奏不必相互冲突令人宽慰，感谢分享你的洞见。

You've given us a lot to think about from finding direction through exploration possibly to building work that reflects what you care about. In this fast moving world, it's reassuring to hear how purpose and pace don't have to be at odds, and thank you for sharing your insight.

是的，非常感谢。我同意根据目标选择最适合自己的节奏。要知道有些冰川，比如南极冰盖，形成用了三千万年。

Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. I agree that, you know, depending on the purpose, you can choose the pace that most suits you. You know, some some glaciers, the the icy Antarctica took thirty million years to form.

这不是短暂的时间，但它积累的历史与智慧是人类寿命无法完全理解的。所以我认同在这个快节奏的世界里，我们不必被旋风裹挟。有一种深刻的认知和专注力可以锚定我们，支持我们真正将每个人的天赋呈现给世界。

It's not a short amount of time, but it has accumulated a history and a wisdom that human lifespan cannot comprehend fully. So I think I agree in this fast paced world, we don't have to be carried by the whirlwind. And there's a a deep knowing and there's intentionality that could ground us and support us in in truly bringing out everyone's gifts to the world.

非常感谢宋超的分享，也感谢你参与RAND圆桌讨论。

Thank you so much Song Chao for speaking with me, and thank you for being on RAND Table.

谢谢，真的非常高兴能来到这里。

Thank you. Really, really happy to be here.

再次感谢来自wildbound.earth的何杨和宋超瑶女士。这是一个多么不可思议的故事。从那次漫长的对话中，我们学到了很多，但让我印象深刻的是她说我们并未与自然分离。我们生活在树木、河流和山脉之间。然而，当她谈到这一点时，我感觉我们有时会感到一种疏离，因为大部分人口居住在城市、都市区域。

Thank you once again to He Young and miss Song Chao Yao from wildbound.earth. What an incredible story that is. And there's so much to take away from that from that lengthy conversation, but one thing that that stuck out to me was when she was saying that we're not separated from nature. We live around the trees and the rivers and the mountains. Yet, I felt when she was talking about that that we sometimes feel a disconnect because we a lot of the human population lives in cities, in in urban areas.

因此，我们日常看不到树木、山脉、河流、湖泊或海洋。所以我认为我们需要学习的关键一点是，尽管许多人生活在混凝土之中，但这并不意味着我们不再是这个星球的公民。

So we don't see the trees or the mountains or the rivers or the lakes or the oceans on a daily basis. So I think that's one of the key things for us to learn is is that just because we live around concrete, a lot of us, doesn't mean we're still not, citizens of this planet.

嗯。

Mhmm.

与此同时，这让我感到非常自豪，如果我可以这么说的话，看到越来越多的女性，包括她，开始变得非常积极主动，并且非常清楚自己在做什么，意识到她们作为女性所面临的挣扎、力量、进步和劣势。她们在思考这些问题，寻找不同的解决方式，而且不再像前几代人那样行事。中国女性在各方面都相当坚强，但她们过去并不那么清楚自己的处境，也不那么主动地为其他女性改善状况。

And at the same time, it makes me feel very proud, if I can say that, to see that more and more women, including her, started to be very proactive and very aware of what they're doing, of the kind of struggles and strength and advances and the disadvantage they have as a female. Female. They're thinking about it. They're finding different ways to resolve the problems, and they're not doing it in a way like generations ago. Chinese women are quite strength full in everything, but they're not as aware of their situation and as proactive in improving the situation for fellow women out there.

这相当令人印象深刻。

That is quite impressive.

是的。我从霍阳那里学到的一个快速提示是，你永远不要问女性受访者如何平衡生活和工作。不，不再这样了。宋超直接指出了这一点。

Yeah. One quick note I learned from Huo Yang is that you never ask a female interviewee how do you balance balance your your life life with your work. No. Not anymore. Straight it by Song Chao.

她是两者兼顾的完美典范。

She's a perfect example of both.

圆桌讨论到此结束。非常感谢大家今天抽出时间。下次请继续参与我们的活动。

And that's it for roundtable. Thank you so much for your time today. Please join us again next time.