你的下一位厨师是机器人

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

是圆桌会议。

Is Roundtable.

您正在收听《圆桌会议》。我是林友鸿，与史蒂夫和丁宏一同主持。在北京一家热闹的厨房里，蒸汽升腾，锅铲翻飞，却无人汗流浃背——因为主厨是钢铁之躯。全中国范围内，机器人厨师正悄然改变我们的饮食方式。

You're listening to Roundtable. I'm Yohong Lin, joined by Steve and Ding Hung. In a bustling kitchen in Beijing, steam rises, pans and pots fly, but no one is breaking a sweat. That's because the chef is made of steel. Across China, robotic cooks are quietly transforming how we eat.

它们动作迅捷、出品稳定，且从不需要抽烟休息。但随着算法接管后厨，新的问题在暗流涌动：烹饪中的人情味将何去何从？那份灵光乍现的直觉，那种温暖的感觉，以及厨师与食客之间的情感联结。而《圆桌会议》将在今冬伊始带您探究羽绒服的奥秘。

They're fast, consistent, and never need a cigarette break. But as algorithms take over the walk, new questions sizzle beneath the surface. What happens to the human touch in cooking? That pinch of intuition, that sense of warmth, that connection between the cook and the eater. And Roundtable invites you to find out all about down jacket in the beginning of this winter.

一件99元，另一件999元，都宣称能御寒保暖。究竟哪款名副其实？此刻，机器人厨师正以翻炒煎炸之势席卷中国厨房，它们从不抱怨加班或小费微薄。但若机器能以更快更便宜的方式制作我们喜爱的菜肴，我们是否还会怀念人类厨师带来的烟火气与独特魅力？

One for 99 yuan, another for 999. Both claim to keep you warm. Which one really does? But now, robotic chefs are flipping, frying, and sauteing their way across China's kitchens, and they never complain about long hours or bad tips. But if machines start making our favorite dishes faster and cheaper, will we still crave the chaos and charm of a human chef?

当我们谈论机器人厨师时，究竟在讨论什么？它们的机械化程度有多高？这些机器里又保留了多少人类厨师的特质？

When we talk about robotic chefs, exactly what we're talking about. How robotic are they and how much percentage of chef is included in these machines?

超级机器人来回答你问题的前半部分

Super robotic to answer the first part of your They

这些不锈钢机器正在商业厨房和餐厅中快速取代人类厨师。我认为这些技术结合人工智能与预制食品包装，已成为我们餐饮市场的新元素。其中部分——准确说几乎所有机器人——都能烹饪宫保鸡丁、麻婆豆腐等经典中餐，以及辣椒炒肉、牛肉炒蘑菇等小炒。

are stainless steel machines that are rapidly replacing human cooks in those commercial kitchens and restaurants. And I I guess these technologies alongside artificial intelligence and pre prepared, you know, food, dishes, packages, they are the new elements in our catering market. And some of them can cook not some of them, I guess, virtually all of them. All of these robots can cook some classical Chinese dishes like, kung pao chicken, mapo tofu, or some stir fries like chili fried pork, fried beef, and mushroom fried chicken.

我们之前在《圆桌派》讨论过这个新兴事物，当时提到过京东旗下的七鲜厨房。在那个特定空间里，所有菜品都由机器人制作，且价格非常亲民——每份15到20元（约2-3美元），还包含米饭。

There was one I mean, we talked about this on Roundtable before when it was really kind of brand brand new at the time, and I think we talked about seven Fresh Kitchen. That's the one that's under, jd.com. And, in that particular, space, all the dishes are made by robots, and they're very affordable. They're about 15 to 20 yuan. That's about 2 to $3 each, and that includes rice as well.

这显然是主要卖点：出餐速度极快且价格实惠。不仅限于我们提到的小炒，它们还能做炖菜、烩菜，需要时能焯烫蔬菜并精准调味。硬币的另一面是，人类角色转变为机器人操作员——无需掌握复杂烹饪技巧，只需将预配好的食材放入指定槽位，剩余工作由机器人完成。

So that's obviously one of the major selling points here, right, is that they are very fast in creating their food, but it's also very affordable as well. And they're not just we mentioned that, you know, the stir fries that they can do, and they can do those, but they can also create stewed dishes or braised dishes. They can blanch certain vegetables if need be, they can apply their seasoning when they have to as well. So, yeah, the the role of human beings, and there's a flip side to this coin, it shifts to more of a robot operator who doesn't really need to do the complex cooking skills in the kitchen. So these operators, they place the pre portioned ingredients into designated slots, and then the robot takes over from there.

我亲眼见过一个做咖啡的机器人（严格来说不算机器人，只是一只机械臂）。

I I have personally witnessed one robotic I don't think it's a chef. It's a bristle because the that robot makes makes coffee. Yep. And it's not a robot per se. It's just one hand.

没错，就是一只独立的机械臂在制作咖啡。正是这个经历让我开始关注所有这类非人形的机器人厨师。

One It's an arm. It's an arm. Just one arm and making the coffee. And that's what got me interested in checking out all these robotic chefs. They're not human.

它们没有人类外形。听到'机器人'这个词时，人们通常会联想到类人机器人——

They do not look human. When you hear the word robot, you think of a human like robot, Android

仿人机器人。不过除此之外还有很多其他类型。

like robot. Humanoid robots, but I mean, there are plenty of others too.

没错。当我想到机器人厨师时，我有点好奇，发现它们种类繁多。有些看起来完全像炒锅，就是带煎锅功能的炒锅，里面还有大勺子辅助翻炒。还有些体型特别庞大的型号。

Exactly. So when I think of the robotic chef, I was a bit curious, and I realized there are so many different kinds. There are the ones that look exactly like a wok. It's just a wok with a fry pan well, with the the huge spoon in it that can help it fry. And there's also the huge ones.

那种巨型机器人可以同时操作三台——至少三台锅具同时工作，效果非常出色。就像史蒂夫说的，我们讨论过它的一大亮点就是新颖性。其实当时也不算全新概念，只是那时才开始能做中餐。

The huge one can operate three, I think, at least up to three pots together, and they can be really, really good. And like Steve said, the reason that we had talked about it, one, it was really, really new. At that time, it was not that new. The concept was not that new. It's just it only started to be able to cook Chinese dish at that time.

因为之前特别是西式料理，对调味时机和明火温度精度要求不高，像冷盘、沙拉或煎蛋卷这类菜品难度不大。用机器做这些相对容易。但经过多年研发，现在这些机器人厨师真能做出我们传承千年的中餐了，甚至能还原'锅气'——那种厨师在灶台前掌勺时特有的氛围感，以及现炒中餐的独特风味。

Because previously, for especially what we mentioned when we say Western kind of dishes, when you do not really need the timing of seasoning, the temperature of the open fire cooking the dish should be that precise when it's mostly just the kind of cold dish, salad, or you are frying an egg or something to an egg omelet, it's not that hard. So using machines to cook those kind of dishes were relatively easier. But after years and years of research and development, the robotic chef can now really cook the kind of Chinese dishes that we are in love with for thousands of years. And we even talk about guo qi, that is the atmosphere and the feeling and the taste of the wok, of a human being operating in front of the wok, in front well, in the kitchen, and that special kind of freshly made Chinese dish. And that can also be created by these robotic robotic chefs as well.

这正是最令人惊叹的部分。这些机器人厨师还有什么其他优势？

And that's the one of the really impressive part. What are some other perks of these robotic chefs?

我认为效率和降低人力成本是最明显的优势。对餐饮业主来说，雇佣资深厨师在一线城市月薪可能超过1.1万元——北京这边1万根本不够。而机器人是一次性长期投资。有案例显示，某餐厅采用机器人后月人力成本从7.5-8万元骤降至9.19万元。

Well, I think efficiency and lower labor cost, that's a very obvious benefit that that these business owners, restaurant owners can reap from this, new development. Cost is a major benefit because if you want to hire a very experienced human cook, then you probably need to pay this person, like, more than $110,000 yuan depending on which city. But here in Beijing, maybe 10,000 yuan is way not enough. But by comparison, a robot is just one time investment that is able to run over the long term. In one case, I have read about, thanks to the employment of robots, a restaurant saw its monthly labor cost to drop dramatically from the previous level of somewhere between 75,000 and 80,000 yuan to about the current $919,000 yuan.

具体变化是：原先需要5名厨师加5名帮工的厨房，现在只需两名操作员管理6-7台机器人。

So the change is then, previously, he was hiring a team of five cooks and five helpers in in his kitchen, but now he is just using two operators managing six to seven robots.

没错，月人力成本从1万元降到2500元，直接节省了75%。

Yeah. That's going from, like, $10,000 a month in labor cost to $2,500 a month. That's you know, you're reducing your labor cost by 75%.

北京的劳动力市场也相当有趣。比如看看外卖小哥或快递小哥的平均年龄，他们平均25岁。但无论哪种餐厅的厨师，平均年龄都在45岁左右。由于工作环境等多种原因，愿意选择烹饪或厨师作为职业的年轻人越来越少。我们确实面临着市场上优秀厨师短缺的问题，尤其是在节假日和春节后。

And the labor market here in Beijing is also quite interesting. If you take a look at the average age of, for example, food delivery guys or package delivery guys, their average age is 25 years old. But for these chefs in no matter what kind of restaurants, their average age is 45 years old. And less and less young people are willing to choose cooking or choose being a chef as their major because of the environment, I mean, working environment and also a lot of different reasons. But we are definitely looking at a shortage of really good chefs in the market, especially during, for example, a holiday period and after spring festival.

他们很难找到所需的好厨师。而厨师绝对是保证产品质量的关键因素。所以能有替代方案对餐厅老板来说绝对是个好消息。

They have a really huge problem finding out the good chefs they need. And the chefs would be definitely a key factor to maintain the quality of their product. So having a possible alternative is definitely a good news for restaurant owners.

就像开场时说的那样。这些机器人不需要休息对吧？它们可以24小时工作，如果餐厅营业到深夜，人员配备对公司来说可能是个问题，而机器人直接消除了这个问题。从商业角度看，如果只考虑资金方面，几乎看不到任何缺点，因为你基本上消除了——不完全是消除，而是大幅降低了培训成本。

Those you said it in the opening. These robots don't need a break. Right? They can work twenty four hours a day, so if the restaurant is open late at night, then staffing can be a potential problem for for a company, and that just eliminates that that problem. From a business point of view, it's really difficult to see I mean, if we're if we're only talking about the money side of things, it's very difficult to see any downsides because you you basically eliminate well, not eliminate your training costs, but you heavily reduce your training cost.

在食材方面也能省下不少钱，包括原料和调味料。因为机器人对用量把控极其精准，而人类厨师有时会这次多放点调料，下次少放点。所以在这方面能节省开支，

Your ingredients, you save a lot there too, ingredients and seasoning, because those are they're they're so exact with their with their measurements, the robots, and humans will sometimes take a little bit more of one seasoning one time and a little bit less the other time. So they save money there, and

而且省得还不少呢。

and a lot, by the way.

通过减少浪费，他们在调味料上节省了30%的成本。菜品质量始终如一，这不再是问题。味道永远保持一致。具有可扩展性，这对成功的生意来说非常有利。速度更快，利润率更高。

30% they save on on seasonings by from reduced waste. You've got your consistent quality, so that's not an issue. If it were before, your flavors are always exactly the same. It it's scalable, which is a great thing for a business should it be successful. It's faster, you have higher profit margins.

所以从商业角度看，这简直是赢赢赢赢赢赢，几乎没什么缺点。

So from a business point of view, it's win win win win win win with very few downsides.

我想问问你们两个，你们会做饭吗？

I wanna ask both of you. Do you cook?

会。是的。会。

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

你们是那种很厉害的厨师，还是说至少能保证做出来的东西能吃、不会毒死人的那种？

Are you, like, good chef or the kind that can make sure that your food are edible and won't, you know, poison anybody.

对。对我来说首要任务通常是不毒死人。我特别喜欢给我妻子做饭。我们互相为对方做饭，而且真的很享受这个过程。是的。

Yeah. Not killing anyone is usually priority number one for for me. I I love to cook for my wife. We cook for each other Oh, and we really enjoy it. Yeah.

你呢，鼎勋？

How about you, Dinghun?

是的。我觉得烹饪也是个非常享受的过程，特别是周末暂时从工作压力中解脱出来的时候。

Yeah. I think cooking is a very enjoyable process as well, especially during the weekend when you got temporarily released from your work related pressure.

暂时。听起来像在坐牢似的。没错。周末放风。

Temporarily. Like, it sounds like prison. Yes. Exactly. You're out on a weekend.

但这过程非常愉快，只是很耗时，

But it's it's very enjoyable. But it's it's time consuming, to

说实话，是的。我问这个问题的原因是为了确保我们在讨论烹饪的逻辑、本质和原则时达成共识。特别是中餐，温度控制至关重要。你需要让温度迅速升高，这样才能激发食材的香气和味道，将其充分释放出来。

be honest. Yes. And the reason I'm asking this is to make sure we're on the same page when we talk about the logic and nature and principle in cooking. That is for especially Chinese food, it's really important about the temperature. You need to rise the temperature really, really fast so that the really nice smell and taste of the ingredient can be inspired and can be invite out.

但与此同时，尤其是蔬菜这类食材，烹饪时间不宜过长。你不希望过度加热食材，这样才能保持好的口感。这就是关键所在。机器人厨师能在他们的锅中，短短几秒内将温度升至300度，从而做出美味佳肴。

But at the same time, especially for vegetable, for example, you do not want the cooking time to be too long. You do not want to heat up the material or the ingredient for too long. So the texture would remain good. And that is the thing. With robotic chefs, they are able to, in their pot, rise the temperature to up to 300 degrees right in in several seconds so that it can taste really good.

当我们谈论机器人厨师时，当我们讨论保持菜品质量的一致性时，并不是说它们每次翻炒的次数要完全相同，也不是说每锅的温度要分毫不差。而是它们能模仿顶级厨师的烹饪动作，并通过传感器检测食物温度。它们能知道该继续加热食材多久，或许该再加多少盐。这种一致性指的是菜品质量的稳定，这意味着商家不仅能立足本地，更能将业务拓展至全国乃至全球。

And when we talk about robotic chefs, when we talk about maintaining the same type of quality of the dish, we're not talking about they use these exact same, for example, number of stir every time they fry. We're not talking about they use the exact same temperature every pot they they do. It's that they mimic the movement of a major huge level a chef, and they have different sensors detecting the temperature of the food. They they can know how much more they should continue heating up the ingredient and maybe how much a little more salt they can put inside. And that consistent is talking about the consistent quality of the dish, which means for business owners, they can open their business not only in the in where they started the business, but to cross the entire country, if not globally.

这对中餐尤为重要，因为中餐馆，尤其是连锁品牌，正面临一个难题：他们需要确保各地厨师的水准保持一致。

And that's something very, very important for Chinese food because Chinese restaurants having problem, especially the franchise restaurants having problem spending, and the problem is that they need the exact same level or same level of consistency of chef all over the place.

是的。虽然从商业角度看几乎没什么缺点，但有个无法回避的问题：食物不是由人烹饪的。对某些人来说，这确实是个问题，对吧？

Yeah. I mean, I mentioned that there were almost no downsides from a business point of view, but there is one, and it's kind of the elephant in the room. There's no humans cooking your food. And for some people, that is an issue. Right?

嗯。商家们也承认这一点。有些人可能会觉得，即使价格实惠，如果不是真人烹饪就不值得。不过大多数人似乎完全不介意，但确实还有一部分人暂时没适应这个理念。

Mhmm. And business owners, they acknowledge that as well. Some people might think, oh, it's not worth it. Even though it is affordable, it's not worth it if it's not a person actually doing it. So the majority seem to think, though, that it's not an issue at all, but there are certain people out there that haven't really adjusted to the idea just yet.

是的。特别是对美食爱好者来说，对那些把美食当作爱好的人而言，某种程度上

Yeah. Especially for foodies, for people who enjoy food as a hobby, as a kind of

就像艺术一样。没错。艺术。

Like an artistic thing. Yeah. Art.

他们会在意。哦哦，为什么我的厨师不是人类？是个机器人。但我想对大多数人来说，他们主要关心的还是价格、食材、新鲜度，以及厨房的卫生条件等等。所以，很难说这一切是否都是好事。

They will care. Oh oh, how come my my chef is not a human? It's a robot. But I guess for for most people, they are primarily just concerned about price, ingredients, freshness, the the hygiene condition within the kitchen, etcetera, etcetera. So, it's it's, it's hard to say whether this is all good.

但我认为，最终机器人不会完全取代人类厨师，因为在那些高端餐厅里，烹饪和美食不仅仅是被当作食物出售，更像是一种艺术、一种情感、一种怀旧的情怀。是的。在这些地方，我认为机器人不会扮演那么重要的角色。但对于那些快餐连锁加盟餐厅来说，机器人确实是一种非常利润驱动的现象。这就是我的观点。

But I think, ultimately, robots will not entirely take the place of human cooks because, but because at the end of the day, in those higher end restaurants where cooking and access to where food is not only, sold as just a food, but more like an art, as an emotion, as an nostalgia feeling. Yeah. In those places, I think I don't think robots will play that significant of a role. But for for those fast food chain franchise restaurant, yeah, robots is a very profit driven phenomenon. I that's my argument.

你知道吗？我觉得是因为你知道这是机器人做的菜，你就在评判这个机器人厨师

You know? Know. I think it's because you know it's cooked by a robot. You're judging the robot chef

但这就是我的观点。

But that's my point.

有点偏见。

Of being a little bit biased.

但这就是我的观点。是的。我的确切意思是人们需要时间来适应这一点。

But that's my point. Yes. That's exactly my point is that people need time to adjust to that.

当时有一场机器厨师与真人厨师的对决，那位真人厨师来自湖南，厨艺非常精湛。他们烹饪的是湘菜。湘菜本就以超级辣著称，而且需要明火快炒才能炒出锅气。我们之前讨论过那种刚出锅的新鲜口感。他们做了三道不同的菜，所有食材都是事先准备好的。

And there was a competition between a robotic chef and a real, really good human chef from Hunan province. They were cooking Hunan cuisine. And Hunan cuisine is kind of famous for being super spicy to start with, but also you need open fire to really fry the ingredient to give it to the guo qi. We talked about the feeling of freshly made out of the wok kind of feeling. And they did three different dishes and all the ingredients are prepared for them.

机器人厨师用了大约三分钟，而人类厨师用了约九分钟。他们把两组菜品（每组三份）都给了街上的陌生人品尝。没人能真正分辨出区别。

The robotic required around three minutes, whereas the human chef used around nine minutes. And they gave both dish to well, both three pairs to strangers on the street for them to taste. None of them could really tell the difference.

他们觉得机器人做的菜更好吃吗？

Did they choose the robot's food as better?

他们认为两者很相似。味道非常接近。

They thought both of them are are similar. They're really close to each other.

是啊。但关键在于烹饪过程中存在细微差别。比如做宫保鸡丁时，你可以做成甜辣结合的，或者...

Yeah. But the thing is, there were nuances in cooking process. Like, if you cook if you cook kung pao chicken, you can cook it as, like, a spicy combined with sweet or

这项发明。

The invention.

是啊，所以

Yeah. So

每一处烹饪的细微差别

With every cooking nuance.

比如，并非每道菜都能标准化。但机器人嘛，我觉得更像是标准化的烹饪

Like, not every dish can be standardized. But robots, I guess, it's more like standardized Yes. The cooking.

对吧？这点我同意。完全没有创意可言

Right? That I agree. No creativity there.

没有创意。但人类厨师可以成为创造者，然后把算法输入机器人。我们不得而知，但我们在此观察。您正在收听的是即将播出的《圆桌论坛》。同样，我们看到羽绒服这类商品总是有各种选择

No creativity. But human chef can be the creator and then putting in the algorithm in the robot. We don't know, but we are here to observe. You're listening to Roundtable coming up next. This as well, we see that for the kind of down jacket, you always have different choices.

那么我们来聊聊羽绒服吧。别走开

So let's talk about the down jackets. Don't go away.

寻找激情？来场激烈辩论如何？想从不同视角了解中国时事？那就收听《圆桌论坛》吧，这里东西方相遇，理解才是目标

Looking for passion? How about fiery debate? Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives? Then tune in to roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

这次圆桌会议有我自己、牛红林、Steve Hatherley和丁洪参加。快速提问：你们觉得一件像样的羽绒服，合理的价格区间应该是多少？

It's roundtable with myself, Niu Hong Lin, Steve Hatherley, and Ding Hong. Quick question. How much do you think is a reasonable price level for a down jacket, a decent one?

以人民币计算的话，至少四位数起步。

Measured in RMB, at least the four digits.

哦。

Oh.

噢，是的。

Oh, yeah.

真的吗？这是我的印象。

Really? That's my impression.

我刚花360元买了一件。

I just bought one for 360 yuan.

质量怎么样？

And how was it?

嗯，我才用了大约两周，但目前为止对产品很满意。虽然还谈不上完美，北京这边之前有过一阵寒潮，但很快就过去了。最近天气比较暖和，所以我稍后再汇报。

Well, I've only been using it for about two weeks, but I'm satisfied with the product to this point. Although it hasn't gotten to be fair, we had a little cold spell here in Beijing, but it went away very quickly. It's been kind of warm recently, so I'll report back later.

是的。在北京这里，我们已经进入，我想差不多是冬季的时段了，这就是为什么我们在讨论各种类型的羽绒服。因为现在中国市场上，尤其是线上市场，你能找到各种不同的产品。你能看到不同的产品描述，羽绒服里填充物的不同类型，当然还有不同的价格标签。

Yes. And here in Beijing, we're already entering the well, I think almost winter kind of period, and that is why we're discussing different types of down jacket. Because now here in the Chinese market, especially online market, you can find different types of product. You can find different even description of the product, different types of filling in the down jacket, and also, of course, different price tag.

没错。如果你在挑选今年冬天的羽绒服，这里有几个要点要注意。第一，你必须检查羽绒含量，他们说这是标签或产品详情页上最重要的信息。羽绒含量必须达到或超过50%，这是中国新国家标准规定的，该标准还建议消费者避免那些使用‘羽绒棉’等模糊或误导性术语的产品。所以一定要查看并确保超过50%。

Yeah. So here's what you look for if you are looking at a down jacket for this winter. One, you have to check the downclustercom content, and they say that's the most important piece of information to look for on the label or the product details on the page. It's that down cluster content, which must meet or exceed 50% under the new Chinese national standard consumers, report, which, instructs those to avoid products that use vague or misleading terms like down cotton. So have a look for that and make sure that it exceeds 50%.

此外，他们建议对大幅折扣的价格保持警惕，因为一件填充量合理的正品羽绒服——大约150克或90%的白鸭绒——其核心成本决定了它不太可能以低于300元的价格出售，这让我觉得我那件340或350元的羽绒服买得还算划算。

Also, they recommend this, remain skeptical of deeply discounted prices because a legitimate down jacket featuring a reasonable amount of filling, that's about a 150 grams or about 90% of white down duck, it has a core cost that makes it unlikely to be sold affordably below 300 yuan, which makes my 340 or 50 yuan down jacket purchase still good enough, I hope.

那么对于四位数的羽绒服，你会关注哪些方面？或者根据你准备的价格，你是想买一件真正好的羽绒服？购买羽绒服时你会看哪些要素？

So for your four digit down jacket, what you look for? Or you want a really good one judging by the price you are preparing for the jacket. What are some elements that you look for when you purchase your down jacket?

嗯，是材质。材质，那个...

Well, it's material. The material, the the

面料。对。羽绒填充物呢？

the Fabric. Yeah. The down Filling?

填充与

Filling and

填充力。这就是所谓的‘哦，感受力量’。

The fill power. That's how Oh, Feel power.

但我猜那那那那表情

But I guess the the the the look on the

当然。

Of course.

时尚。特别是对年轻人来说，那是件大事，还有配饰等等。所以我认为，目前消费者最常反映的问题似乎是有些欺诈行为，比如用单根羽绒丝或填充丝代替真正的羽绒簇。例如，有人花200多元买了一件标称含90%鸭绒的夹克，结果发现里面填充的是劣质的替代单丝。

Fashion. That's that's for especially for young people, that's a big matter and accessories, etcetera, etcetera. So I guess, currently, the most commonly reported problem from consumers seems to be that some fraudulent practices involving using single down filaments or feeder filaments instead of chewed down clusters. For example, one person purchased a jacket that is advertised as 90% duck down for more than 200 yuan only to find that this jacket is actually filled with low quality substituted single filaments.

所以这已经是虚假广告了。

So So that's false advertisement already.

对，对，对。所以你要确保买的是真货。我之前提到的填充力指标是判断质量的要点之一，因为如果你在夹克标签上看到这个，最好的羽绒服填充力通常在750左右，900或更高则属于相当高档的。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you wanna make sure what you're buying is real. That fill power thing that I mentioned before by the thing that they before was one of the things they say to look for for for quality because if you find that on the label of the jacket, the best down jackets tend to have a fill power of about 750, and anything 900 or higher is is quite premium.

蓬松度指的是羽绒簇更大，能以更轻的重量锁住更多空气，因为空气正是羽绒服保暖的关键，所以这个数值越高越好。图表上通常显示：400-500蓬松度的羽绒价格便宜但性能一般，550-650则是性价比之选。对于大多数购买冬季羽绒服的人来说，基本应该选择550-650蓬松度的产品，这个区间足够应对冬季短时间户外活动。

Fill power just means the the down clusters are larger and they can trap more air with less weight because air is what insulates you in the down jacket, so you wanna have a higher number there. So this is what they say on on a chart. Four to 500 for the fill power is cheap and not that good. 550 to 650, that's the balance between performance and cost. So for a lot of people who go out and buy their winter down jackets, they should basically look for that fill power number 550 to six fifty because that'll be good enough for wintertime going out and about and things like that when you're outside for a limited period of time.

700-800蓬松度适合滑雪和单板滑雪爱好者，而850-1000蓬松度的羽绒服基本上能让你去攀登珠穆朗玛峰了。哦还有重要的一点：记得认准'负责任羽绒标准'(RDS)认证，这代表羽绒采集过程注重动物福利和环境保护。

700 to 800, that's for, like, skiers and snowboarders, and and then 850 to a thousand fill power, you're basically ready to climb Mount Everest with with a coat like that. Oh, and one more thing, which I think is important. Also, look for responsible down sourcing, or RDS. That's a certification that down's been procured through methods that prioritize the welfare of the animals and the environment.

没错。想在中国市场选购羽绒服的朋友们可以大胆尝试创新款式，现在制作羽绒服的面料种类非常丰富，不再局限于那些轻便但不够时尚的传统材质。我个人有件皮革面料的羽绒服，虽然稍重但非常保暖，在冰岛旅行时都没觉得冷。

Yes. And for those who are interested in getting one Down jacket here in the Chinese market, you can also get a little bit creative and little bit adventurous because there are now a lot of different types of fabric that can be used to make the down jacket, not the usual ones that are relatively lighter but not that trendy. I personally have a a down jacket, but the surface of it was made of leather. And it's really warm. It's a little bit heavy, but it kept me warm even when I was visiting Iceland.

确实很实用。现在有些款式既时尚又便于活动，就像Steve说的那样。而且部分面料甚至具备防水功能。

So it was quite good. And now there are the ones that you can wear that can look much more fashionable and can allow you to, like Steve said, walk. Well, I think some of the material is even waterproof.

对，部分款式确实有。

Yeah. Some of them.

所以只要多研究产品参数表，看清羽绒材质和蓬松度数据，再结合Steve说的选购要点就行。

So as long as you do a little bit more research about the table, about the sheet you get telling you the material of the downfield power, then also re listen to what Steve has said about what to look for.

另外如果你注重防水性，一定要仔细检查外套的防水等级——否则一旦淋湿，里面的羽绒不防水的话，你会像只落汤鸡似的狼狈不堪。

And keep your eyes peeled for if if waterproof is important to you, make sure you check how waterproof the jacket is because if not, then the down is if it's not water resistant, it will you will look like a drowned rat when that when that coat gets wet.

是的。

Yes.

相信我，我亲身经历过那种情况。

Trust me. I've been there on that one.

啊，这就到了我们今日圆桌讨论的尾声。我们很想听听大家对今天话题的看法，欢迎留言或发送邮件至roundtablepodcast@qq.com。我是牛鸿林，与Steve和丁洪一起。

Aw. And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topics. Leave us a comment or send us an email to roundtablepodcast@qq.com. I'm Niu Hong Lin with Steve and Ding Hung.

非常感谢大家的收听，再见。

Thank you so much for listening. Bye.