3. 瑟琳·席安玛在戛纳

来自《Saburoic新闻》的安德鲁·肯德尔评价道：'这是理解希亚马前四部长片的绝佳入门指南'。

From Andrew Kendall of Saburoic News, we have an easily accessible guide to thinking on Seiyama's first four feature length films.

我们Screen Anarchy网站的希拉·罗温·莱格称其'为未来希亚马研究奠定了基石'。

And Sheila Rowan Legg, our screen anarchy, said a cornerstone for future Sayama scholarship.

您可在sayamabook.com购买本书，同时还能选购我们的'苗条希亚马28页'马克杯，伴您阅读。

You can get your copy at sayamabook.com, and you can also get our Slim Sayama page 28 mug to sip from while you read the book.

该商品同样可通过上述地址购买。

It's also available at that address.

《抵抗的肖像》，这部关于萨林西娅玛的电影，是《火之肖像》的重要姊妹篇，也是了解萨林西娅玛的必备指南。

Portraits of Resistance, a cinema of Salinsiyama is an essential companion to Portrait of Validium Fire and the essential guide to Salinsiyama.

书中收录了《肖像》剧组的主创访谈、关于影片的评论文章，以及追溯夏玛在创作《肖像》之前全部作品的专题。

It contains interviews of the cast and crew of Portrait as well as essays on the film and seeing Syama's body of work leading up to Portrait.

同时还梳理了她作品中反复出现的关键主题——这些元素在她最新电影《小妈妈》中再次显现。

It also identifies key themes throughout her work that show up again in her most recent film, Petite Maman.

这是首部完全聚焦夏玛作品的专著，也是迄今为止关于她创作生涯唯一非学术性的著作。

This is the first book ever published to be dedicated entirely to Syama's work, It's the only non academic book on her work to date.

十余年来她始终在创作惊艳影坛的作品，本期节目我们将深入探讨。

She's been making amazing films for over a decade now, which we talk about on this episode.

我们很荣幸能以这种方式致敬她的艺术成就。

So we're proud to honor her work in this way.

重申：您可以在syamabook.com购买单行本，或选择我们正在销售的'女性力量'丛书套装（含凯莉·雷查德、赛琳娜·西娅玛及拉姆齐的专题著作）。

So again, you can get your copy of the book at syamabook.com, or you can get it as part of the women at can box set that we're selling at the moment, which includes books on Kelly Reichardt, Selena Siyama, and then Ramsay.

购买链接：seventh-row.com/women@canboxset

That's seventh-row.com/women@canboxset.

祝您收听愉快。

Enjoy the rest of the episode.

我

I

记得书中某篇访谈讨论过这点——她谈到在《燃烧女子的肖像》中对呼吸节奏的编排设计。作为极少数能同时拥有独特精准的视觉构想并完美实现的导演，这些细节作为观众原本根本不会察觉。

think this was discussed was it discussed on an interview in the book somewhere where she talks about choreographing the breath work in Portrait of a Lady on Fire And just how she's, I think, one of the rare filmmakers who's able to have a really distinct, precise vision, and then execute on it perfectly, to the point where I never would have noticed that as a viewer at all.

但正是这些设计让影片如此动人、精确、如油画般细腻，并赋予层层隐喻与深意。

But it is part of what is making the feel- the film so evocative and precise and painterly and adding layers of metaphor and meaning.

但那些你完全习以为常的事物，在被指出之前往往根本不会被注意到。

But it's things that you are totally that are just totally invisible until they're brought to your attention.

对我来说，作为观众能发现这样的电影人并了解他们的创作过程，始终是一种非常特别的享受。

And that, to me, is always just a very special treat as a viewer, to find a filmmaker like that, and then to learn about their process.

而她能够如此贯彻自己的艺术愿景，这充分说明了她的能力以及她工作方式的智慧之处。

And the fact that she is able to carry through on her vision like that says a lot about her ability and the very smart way in which she works.

是的，我记得《燃烧女子的肖像》里镜头运用非常极致，构图精确到毫厘，演员们曾说连头都不能动，否则就会脱离光线。

Yeah, I think also her, I recall with Portrait, the shots were extreme, like the framing was extremely, extremely precise, and the actors were talking about how they could not move their head, or they would be out of the light.

我甚至无法理解要如何对电影整体有如此清晰的把控，连呼吸节奏都要精确设计。

I don't even know how you can have such a clear view of the big picture of your film that you know the rhythm of the breaths that need to be there.

她似乎能同时在脑海中把握所有细节，并以一种不露痕迹的方式呈现在电影中。

Somehow she is able to like hold all those details in her mind at once while also like presenting them in a film in a way that doesn't feel like contrived and controlled.

虽然经过精心设计，但呈现效果却自然流畅，富有韵律感。

Like it is controlled, but it feels natural and it has a rhythm to it.

不过我要说，很多顶尖导演其实都具备这种能力。

Although I will say the flip side of that is I think a lot of the best directors do that.

单说呼吸节奏——就像我和帕特丽夏·罗西玛、艾米·诺斯巴金、诺拉·萨达瓦讨论《传声筒》时，她们提到在剪辑过程中发现，在呼吸前或呼吸后剪辑会产生天壤之别。

I mean, thinking about the breath alone, like we talked, when I talked to Patricia Rosima, Amy Nosbakin, and Nora Sadava about mouthpiece, they were talking about learning in the editing process that if you it makes such a huge difference between if you cut before a breath or after a breath.

我和安德鲁·海格聊《周末时光》时——虽然最后变成了职业生涯访谈——

And when I talked to Andrew Hague about well, we were talking about weekend, but it ended up being kind of a career interview.

他谈到设计《寻》电影最终场景时，要求劳尔屏住呼吸直到场景结束才呼气，这样能营造特殊的紧张感。

He was talking about choreographing the final scene of the Looking movie and telling Raul to hold his breath until the very end of the scene and let it let it out then, and that that would create a certain kind of tension.

我觉得能如此精准把控呼吸节奏——山姆在《此片》中对脚步声的调度也是如此——这种理解精确导演需求的能力确实罕见，但看来这似乎是伟大导演的共同特质。

I mean, I think that being able to work that way with breathing, and Sam also does was also choreographing the footsteps on this, is like an uncommon skill to understand the need for that kind of precise direction and how that's gonna play out, but it does seem to be like she's not the only one who does that and it does seem to be a common trait of like great directors.

嗯，还有，我的意思是，我们正在讨论《燃烧女子的肖像》在她其他电影中的制作方式，因为她与儿童合作时不能那样拍摄。

Well, and also, I mean, we're talking a bit about how Portrait was made in her other films because she was working with children couldn't be made that way.

它们更像是即兴发挥的？

They were much more improvis improvisatory?

即兴创作的？

Improvisational?

即兴创作。

Improvisational.

即兴创作。

Improvisational.

比如你看《假小子》DVD的花絮时，会发现有个制作特辑，他们在片场拍摄，我记得是洛尔和她的朋友丽莎之间的一个场景，是叫这个名字吗？

Like if you watch I was watching the special features on the Tomboy DVD and you can see it's like there's a making out featurette and they're on the set doing, I think one of the scenes between Lore and the friend Lisa, is that her name?

那个女孩？

The girl?

嗯。

Mhmm.

你可以听到茜玛直接在镜头前给她们指导，比如转身或者开始跳舞。

And you can hear Syama just like giving them instructions on screen like turn around or start dancing.

不，玩得更开心点。

No, have more fun.

具体记不清了，但她确实在她们表演时实时指导，这在《燃烧女子的肖像》片场是不可能发生的。

Like I can't remember exactly what it was but like she was talking to them as they were doing things, which you know, would not be happening on the portrait set.

我们之前提到想讨论的一点是，茜玛作为导演和编剧的不同形象，以及这与她和其他女性在电影史上待遇的关联。她同时也是位出色的编剧，但我个人更多视她为导演而非编剧。

I mean, one thing we said we wanted to talk about earlier was sort of like the way Sayama is seen as a director versus as a screenwriter and how that's maybe connected to like the history of like the way she and other women are treated by And she's also a brilliant screenwriter, but that's not necessarily like think personally I see her, I think of her as a director than a screenwriter.

我认为这些事情是协同运作的。

I think those things work together in tandem.

但奇怪的是，从历史上看，她未必被这样看待。

But strangely enough, she hasn't necessarily been seen that way historically.

我是说，显然除了导演工作外，她还从事编剧工作。

I mean, obviously, she works as a screenwriter outside of her directing duties.

而且她确实凭借《燃烧女子的肖像》在戛纳获得了剧本奖，这并非不配，因为剧本非常出色，但我也觉得有点奇怪，似乎形成了一种模式。

And she actually won the screenplay award at Can with Portrait, which is not undeserved because it's a brilliant screenplay, but also strikes me as like slightly odd and in a pattern.

是啊。

Yeah.

的

Of

女性导演的电影在戛纳获奖的方式。

the way that films directed by women have been awarded at Cannes.

因为我

Because just I

想或者奥斯卡。

think Or the Oscars.

哦，奥斯卡。

Oh, the Oscars.

我是说前年或大前年，林·拉姆齐的《你从未在此》在戛纳展映并获得了剧本奖，部分原因可能是他们还想给这部电影最佳男主角奖，而根据复杂的规定，只有同时获得剧本奖才能这样做。

I mean the previous year or the year before, Lin Ramsey's You Were Never Really Here screened at Cannes and won the Screenplay Award, which is probably partially because they also wanted to give the film best actor, which you can only do if it also gets screenplay for convoluted reasons.

但特别是对那部电影来说，这非常奇怪，因为

But it's just very strange for that film in particular because it's

一部如此漫长的电影

a So long film with as

你被引导着

you get directed

进入这部电影

to the film.

是的，传统上人们认为好剧本就是对话很多的剧本，我觉得这种观点不对。

Yeah, traditionally people see good screenplays as like screenplays with a lot of dialogue, which I think is incorrect.

但按照这种传统，《你从未在此》这样对话极少的电影能获奖就很奇怪。

But like in that tradition it's strange that You Were Never Really Here would be awarded as a film with very little dialogue.

这部电影的出色很大程度上归功于其视觉与声音元素以及剪辑手法。

That's like brilliant largely because of the visual and sound elements of the film and the way it's edited.

这些元素对观众能产生巨大的情感冲击。

And the way those elements have a huge emotional impact on you as a viewer.

这完全是一部导演主导的电影。

Like it's such a director's film.

当然剧本结构也很出色，但这个奖项给得很奇怪。

Obviously it's very well structured as well, but it was a weird award.

第二年《燃烧女子的肖像》这样导演技艺精湛的作品却获得剧本奖。

And the second year with Portrait being such like a virtuosic feat of direction for it to be given the Screenplay Awards.

虽然剧本确实出色，但这种模式似乎暗示着：我们愿意承认女性导演的作品，但更倾向于将她们视为编剧而非导演，因为长久以来存在一种偏见，认为女性不像男性那样具备视觉思维，因此不适合从事导演职业。

For what is a great screenplay, It seems like a telling pattern to the fact that there's this reluctance to acknowledge women as like, yeah, we'll acknowledge films women directed, but we're going to acknowledge them as screenwriters rather than as directors because like there's like a long standing like thinking that like women are just not as visual thinkers as men and that's why they're not as suited to the film directing profession.

是的，我认为这里有两层问题。

Yeah, I think there's two things going on here.

其中一个涉及性别问题，另一个则更多关于编剧兼导演的身份。

One of them is gendered and one of them is more about the being a writer director.

我是说，我会先处理编剧兼导演的问题，因为性别问题更为复杂。

I mean, I'll just deal with the writer director one first because the gendered one is more complicated.

但我想说的是，奥拉，我们经常讨论的一个话题是，有很多自编自导的导演其实不应该这样做。

But I mean, something that you and I talk about a lot, Orla, is there are a lot of directors who write their own films who should not.

比如，他们导演能力很强，但剧本写得很糟糕。

Like, they're really good at directing, but their writing is poor.

反过来讲，我认为如果你是个优秀的编剧兼导演，就更容易获得认可，或者人们更容易忽略导演方面的不足。

Like, the flip side of that is I think if you're a really good writer and you're a director, it's easier to get recognized or easier for people to overlook the directing.

而且我认为，尤其对于优秀的编剧兼导演来说，写作和导演是紧密交织的。

And I think, especially for really good writer directors, the writing and directing are really intertwined.

我是说，凯莉可能就是这样一个例子。

I mean, think Kelly is probably an example of this.

我想说的是，凯莉·雷查德的电影对白非常精简，虽然剧本写得极好，但讽刺的是，她可能因此更少因编剧而受到认可，更多因导演能力被肯定——不是因为剧本差，而是因为看起来不那么像'写出来的'作品。

And I think, you know and Kelly Reichardt, because her films are more sparse in dialogue, I think, ironically, even though they're extremely well written, might get less recognized for writing and more recognized for directing, not because the writing is weak, but because it they may seem less written.

但你看，如果想想今年奥斯卡，比如《世界上最糟糕的人》，我觉得它的剧本非常出色。

But then, you know, I mean, if we look you know, just think about the Oscars this year and we you think about, like, worst person in the world, like, I I think it's an excellent screenplay.

不过如果要我给它一个国际电影之外的提名，除了很高兴看到埃斯基尔·沃格特获得提名外，我可能会给导演奖——因为这明显是部导演功力深厚的电影，不是随便谁都能驾驭的。

But if I were gonna give it one nomination outside of aside from the fact that I'm happy to see Eskelvakt nominated, probably I would have given, like, the one nomination outside of best international film would have been for directing because it's so obviously like a heavily directed film that not just anyone could captain that ship.

好的导演很难用语言描述。

It's like difficult to describe like what's good directing.

我明白你说的'导演功力深厚'是什么意思，但这也像是...你知道的，这种电影不只是把剧本呈现出来而已，对吧？

Mean like I know what you mean by heavily directed, but it's also sort of like, you know, a film where you're not just communicating the script, right?

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，这部电影看起来导演痕迹更明显，但这与...或许像Syama或Andrew Hague这样的导演面临的挑战在于，他们的剧本太出色了，反而让导演手法显得不够炫目。

Well, it's a film that seems like more obviously most directed, which is not the same as and maybe the challenge with somebody like Syama or like Andrew Hague is their writing is so good that then their directing is not showy.

所以可能会被看作——哦，这不过是部剧本驱动的电影罢了。

And so it can be seen as, oh, well, it's a it's a screenplay film.

我是说，我觉得米娅·汉森-洛夫也遇到过这个问题。

I mean, I think Mia Hansen Love had this issue too.

对吧？

Right?

比如人们提名《伯格曼岛》是因为剧本，而不是导演或最佳影片。

Like, people nominated Bergman Island for writing, but not for directing or, like, best film.

毕竟那是部话痨电影，所以情况不太一样。

I mean, that's a talkie film, so it has there's other things going on with that.

但...我也不知道该怎么说。

But, like, I think I don't know.

我觉得像瑟琳·席安玛、安德鲁·海格、爱丽丝·威诺克他们，都是顶尖的编剧，可能更是杰出的导演，但人们更认可他们的写作才华。

I think with, like, think with Celine Sciamma, Andrew Hague, Alice Winoker, they're all really great writers and they're maybe even better directors, but they maybe get more recognition for writing.

不过，就像你刚才说的...我也说不好。

But, yeah, like, I guess kinda what you said you I don't know.

你之前在录音时说过吗？人们其实并不真正懂得什么是好的导演手法？

Did you say this on the podcast before we were recording, but people don't necessarily know what good directing is?

所以如果你是编剧兼...

And so if you're the writer and

导演，

the director,

可能会让人困惑。

can be confusing.

比如，我到底喜欢这部电影的什么？

Like, what is it that I like about this movie?

是剧本还是导演手法？

Is it the writing or the directing?

你会觉得像《沙丘》这样的电影——虽然讽刺的是奥斯卡没这么认可——答案似乎更明显，毕竟剧本很烂，不过无所谓。

And you would think with and, like, with a film like Dune, although ironically, the Oscars didn't recognize it this way, like, it seems more obvious, like, also because the screenplay sucked, but whatever.

那明显是部靠导演撑起来的电影。

That that's like a directing film.

对吧？

Right?

因为这是科幻题材，有这么多复杂的元素在运作。

Because it's like sci fi and there's all these moving parts.

所以你能看出这是部必须由导演掌控的电影。

And so you can see, like, that's a movie that had to be directed.

但再看看《1917》，你知道，它全程一镜到底。

But then or, like, 1917, know, it's all in one take.

很明显这是部导演主导的电影。

Like, obviously, this is a direction film.

可当你看到《阿依达》时——其编排复杂程度不输《1917》——欧洲电影奖却把最佳导演给了它，对吧？

But then you look at, like, Pulvadis Aida, which is just as incredibly complicatedly choreographed and complex as 1917, and, like, the European Film Awards acknowledged it for best director, right?

但其他人似乎都没这么做。

But like no one else did.

有趣的是，人们似乎总想把电影归入某个类别，而最好的电影其实两方面都很出色。

It's funny that people seem to have this need to put a film in either category when the very best films both are great.

是啊，就像

Yeah, like

这很难

it's hard

没有出色的剧本就难以拍出伟大的电影。

to have a great film without a great screenplay.

而且这两者本就不该被轻易割裂开来。

And those two things aren't so easily compartmentalized.

但人们似乎总想这么做。

But people seem to want to do that.

我觉得很可笑，像Syama这样的人竟会被归入编剧类别。

And it seems funny to me that someone like Syama would be put into the screenplay compartment.

没错，对女性来说还有个额外挑战——你知道的，总有人认为女性不能当导演。

Yeah, and then of course for women there's the added challenge of, you know, people thinking that women can't direct.

但好莱坞女性写剧本的历史要悠久得多，对吧？

But there's a much longer history of women writing screenplays in Hollywood, right?

可以追溯到早期电影时代。

Like dating way back to the early days.

就像有很多女性从事剪辑工作一样。

Sort of like how there's lots of women who are editors.

有点像那些幕后默默无闻的工作，没有这些工作你就看不到电影。我觉得导演在作者论文化兴起前，旧时代也是这样的角色。

Sort of like, thankless behind the scene jobs that you don't see without like an Which I guess directors were in the old days too before auteurist culture.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这很有趣，因为剪辑师某种程度上有点像编剧。

I mean, it's funny because an editor is kind of like a bit of a screenwriter.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

因为你就像是在事后对剧本进行删改。

Because you're like chopping up the screenplay after the fact.

而摄影师则是导演视觉风格的延伸，摄影这个领域历史上女性代表严重不足。

Whereas a cinematographer is like an extension of the director as a visual stylist and cinematography is a field where women are severely underrepresented historically.

剪辑领域女性在电影史上一直有更好的代表性。

Editing is Women have been much better represented throughout history in the film industry in the editing category.

所以，我在播客外提过这事，但一直让我耿耿于怀的是布雷特·伊斯顿·埃利斯那篇散文，讽刺的是他基本观点就是'女人不能当导演，原因如下'。

So, I mean, I mentioned this off the podcast, but always was always stuck with me is this like Bret Easton Ellis essay about, which is funny because he basically was like, women can't direct movies and here's why, the essay.

尽管事实上《美国精神病人》就是女导演拍的。

Despite the fact that like American Psycho was directed by a woman.

他当时说，好吧，那部除外。

He was like, well, did like that one.

他接着大肆宣扬女性天生就不擅长视觉思维，不擅长用视觉方式讲故事。

And he basically goes off about how like, it's just not in women's nature to like think visually and to think of storytelling in a visual way.

他还说，'你可以举出索菲亚·科波拉，但她的摄影师都是男性'。

And he's like, Yeah and you can say that there's Sofia Coppola but like her DPs are men.

那么，为什么你们把所有男性导演的电影视觉风格归功于导演本人，而女性导演的作品却归功于她的摄影指导？

So, and then like, why are you crediting the visual style of all the films by men to the director but the one by women to her DP?

好吧。

Okay.

是啊。

Yeah.

对，而且他当时基本上就是这么说的，说女性天生不擅长视觉思维，更倾向于小说式的思考方式。

Yeah, and he was, And his argument was basically just like this, like it's in the genes of women to not think visually, to think more in like novelistic terms.

尽管那是大约十年前的事了，现在在正式场合可没人敢这么说。

And even though that's, you know, was about a decade ago, it's not something that you could say in polite company now.

但我觉得就在不久前，这还是人们公开持有的观点。

But I think not too long ago that was a thought that people were publicly having.

而且某种程度上，虽然我们不再听到有人说女性不懂视觉语言了。

And it's still kind of, even though we don't see people going around saying women can't think of images anymore.

但你仍能看到这种思维以不同方式显现，比如女性在编剧领域比导演领域更受认可。

You still see that way of thinking manifesting in different ways such as like women being more recognized for screenwriting than they are for directing.

这些现象再次成为很好的风向标，不是因为它们说明什么值得获奖，而是反映了某些人认为什么值得获奖。

Again, are a good barometer, not because they tell you anything about what's deserving, but they tell you about what certain people think is deserving.

但你看，我并不是在支持Emerald Fennel应该获奖，但她同时获得了最佳导演和最佳编剧提名，而最佳导演必须给赵婷，所以她拿了最佳编剧奖。

But, you know, like, think of how like, I am not advocating for Emerald Fennel winning anything, but she was nominated for best director and best screenplay, and they were gonna they had to give director to Chloe Zhao, so she got best screenplay.

还有，女性获得奥斯卡提名本身就是很激进的事，就像Greta Gerwig曾因《伯德小姐》获最佳导演提名，但她最后没获奖对吧？

But then you've also got, like, just, you know, like, it it was pretty radical that women were getting nominated at the Academy, and you think similarly, like, Greta Gerwig was nominated for best director for Lady but instead she, actually she didn't win did she?

《逃出绝命镇》获奖了。

Get Out won.

不，在《小妇人》中她没获得导演提名，但在《惊声尖叫》中获得了。

No, then for Little Women she wasn't nominated for director but she was for Scream.

对。

Right.

尽管那部电影也算是个导演上的壮举。

Even though that film is also kind of a big directing feat.

没错。

Right.

但你可以理解为什么后来会这样，因为她是编剧兼导演，可以将其归类为编剧成就，因为她所做的是彻底改编《小妇人》并重新演绎。

But you could see how you could then, because she's a writer director, classify it as a screenwriting feat because what she's done is ripped up Little Women and redone it.

这当然不仅体现在剧本上，更体现在她的导演手法中。

Which is certainly not just in the writing, but very much in how she's directed it.

但话说回来，她是女性，剧本也是她写的，所以

But again, she's a woman, she wrote it, so

而且其中两位演员获得了提名。

And two of its actors got nominated.

对。

Right.

所以这点得到了认可。

So that was being recognized.

但执导这部作品的人，一个杰出的团队却没有。

But the person who directed it, a stellar ensemble wasn't.

而且我觉得，她们甚至未必是目前最优秀、最有激情的女性导演。

And like, I don't even necessarily think that those are the best, most exciting women directors out there.

他们只是被美国电影艺术与科学学院认可的那些人。

They're just the ones getting recognized by the American Academy.

我是说，就连《前程似锦的女孩》那种剧本也很烂。

I mean, even Promising Young Women, like that screenplay sucked.

导演水平倒没剧本那么糟糕。

The direction wasn't as terrible as the screenplay.

可能还得看...我是说，我记得我们开始录音前林赛说过，人们评选最佳导演的标准，基本就是看谁在颁奖季最有魅力、最会说话...之类的。

Probably also depends on I mean, I think before we started recording, Lindsay was saying, like, people determine who the best director is based on, like, who's most charismatic on the awards circuit and can sound I don't know.

林赛你在这儿呢，要不你自己说？我就不转述了？

You're here, Lindsay, you can, I don't need to quote you?

你想说什么就直说吧。

You can say what you're gonna say.

是啊，这就是营销手段罢了。

Yeah, it's just marketing.

全都是营销套路。

It's all just marketing.

谁最讨喜？

Who's most palatable?

谁最会包装自己？

Who's going to present themselves well?

怎么利用这点来卖票或赚钱？

How can we use that to sell tickets or make money in some way?

好，那就捧这个人。

Okay, let's elevate that person.

我不知道。

I don't know.

是啊。

Yeah.

很容易对此感到幻灭。

It's easy to be disillusioned with that.

而导演，作为作者，就像是项目背后的个性象征。

And the director, like, as an auteur is like the personality behind the project.

所以如果你没有那种可供营销的个性，人们就不太可能把你视为重要导演。

So if you don't have a personality like, to market, people are less likely to see you as an important director.

没错，或者如果你不想要那种关注，不想在媒体圈里抛头露面。

Yeah, or if you don't want that kind of attention and go around and be on the press circuit.

是的，合作会让事情更复杂，因为你不再是他们可以推向世界并宣称'这个人创造了这个杰作'的单一形象。

Yeah, collaboration further complicates things because then you're not just singular figure that they can thrust upon the world and say, they created this amazing thing.

当功劳分散给多人时，媒体就更难从中构建叙事了。

When it's credit distributed to multiple people, then it's harder to craft a narrative out of it for the press.

我真的认为就是这样。

I truly think that's it.

哦，我觉得有些人特别擅长讲述自己的故事，让人听起来他们只负责了导演工作。

Oh, I think also some people are really good at telling their story that makes it sound like all they did was direct.

而实际上他们只负责了编剧。

Versus all they did was write.

比如如果你到处谈论你的创作过程多么即兴，人们就会觉得'哦，那你是个导演'。

Like if you go around talking about how improvisation If you go around talking about how improvisational your process is, then people are like, oh, well you're a director.

但我认为，林赛你说的关于合作更具渗透性这一点确实如此。

But I think, I mean, what you're saying Lindsay about like the fact that with collaboration, it's more porous.

我觉得对于身兼多职的人来说，最大的挑战之一就是难以界定身份。

I think that is one of the challenges with people who wear many hats is it's hard to know.

我们之所以在意职责划分，无非是因为涉及功劳归属和奖项颁发的方式。

And the only reason we seem to care about breaking down is because of how credit's given and how awards are given.

对吧？

Right?

比如《过往》这部作品，丽贝卡·霍尔既担任导演又参与编剧，具体分工真的重要吗？

Like, does it matter how much of passing was directed versus written by Rebecca Hall?

毕竟她两项工作都做了。

Because she did both.

在这个创作过程中，你真的能完全区分编剧和导演的身份吗？

Does do you ever really stop being a writer or stop being a director in that process?

实际上你在写剧本时，就已经在构思如何执导了。

Like, you're thinking about how you're gonna direct it as you're writing it.

大多数同时担任导演编剧的人都是这样。

Most directors anyway who do both.

就像去年首次执导的丽贝卡·霍尔，还有玛吉·吉伦哈尔也是如此。

But like, you think of I mean even like, yeah, she was a new director and so was Maggie Gyllenhaal last year.

她们是以什么身份获得认可的？

What were they recognized for?

最佳剧本。

Screenplay.

实际上，我认为这两部电影的剧本不如导演表现得出色。

And actually, think those two films are weaker in the screenplay than they were in the directing.

是的，尤其是《通过》让我对丽贝卡·霍尔作为导演的印象非常深刻，远超过她作为编剧的表现。

Yeah, think especially Passing is like very much, it like made me very impressed with Rebecca Hall as a director, more so than as a screenwriter.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

我认为《失去的女儿》也是如此，虽然导演手法没那么惊艳，但情况类似。

I think the same is true of, I don't think it's as impressively directed, but the same is true of The Lost Daughter.

但片场发生的很多事情并不像表面那样，最终获得的署名可能并不能真实反映你的实际工作。

But there's so many things that happen on a film set that are not that like, what you end up getting credited at may or may not really reflect what you're doing.

嗯，我是说，林·拉姆齐和其他几部电影合作过，但她的剪辑师乔·比尼会在拍摄现场。

Well, well, I mean, Lin Ramsey has and he's done in several other films, but Lynn Ramsey has her editor Joe Beanie on set they shoot.

乔·比尼以前在剪辑维尔纳·赫尔佐格的电影时也会在现场。

And Joe Beanie also used to be on set when he would edit Werner Herzog's films.

对，确实

Right, there's

任何

any of

我们可以把他在片场的精彩照片放进电子书《现实主题》里，就像

the We could put great photo him set in our e book Subject Reality next to like

尼克 是的。

Nick Yes.

所以当维尔纳·赫尔佐格拍摄他亲自剪辑的剧情片时，他也会在现场。

So when Werner Herzog would make fiction films that he edited, he would be on set as well.

大多数时候只是作为观察者，但这就像在创作过程的不同阶段都有人在场一样。

And mostly it's just as an observer, but it's just like having people present at various points of the creative process.

我的意思是，就像你说的，如果你既是导演又是编剧，那么创作过程的某个阶段何时结束，另一个阶段何时开始？

I mean, while you were saying like, if you're a director and writer, when does one bit of the process end and the other begin?

比如，我也想到凯莉·莱卡特这种自己剪辑自己电影的人。

Like, I also think of like Kelly Reichardt as someone who edits her own films.

有些剪辑实际上在片场就完成了，因为她可能看着画面会想：其实我们不需要这个镜头，因为我已经在脑海里构思好了。

Like some of the editing is really taking place on set because she might like be looking at the image and thinking actually we don't need this shot because I'm playing this in my head.

而且如果我在后期剪辑时，反正也会把这段剪掉。

And if I would in like later in the edit, I chop this bit out anyway.

所以干脆就不要拍它了。

So let's just not capture it.

这种思考方式只有当你自己剪辑电影时才会出现。

Like that kind of thinking happens if you're editing your own films.

我猜想这也是让乔·比尼在片场的优势之一。

And I imagine that's one of the benefits of like having Joe Beanie on set as well.

是啊。

Yeah.

当你采访《失心病狂》的美术指导时（在我们的电子书《超越娱乐赋能》中），她就说过，史蒂文·索德伯格直接告诉她：'你不用布置房间那侧，因为我永远不会拍那里，也永远不会剪进电影里'。

And when you interviewed like the production designer on Unsane in our e book Beyond Empowertainment, she was like, there are things I that Steven Soderbergh just told me, like, you don't have to do that side of the room because I'm never gonna shoot that and I'm never gonna cut that into the film.

这种事只有他能做到，因为他自己剪辑自己的电影。

And that's something that like he can do because he edits his own films.

还自己掌镜。

And shoots them.

我想我部分的意思是，就像

I guess part of what I just meant is that like

据称。

Allegedly.

你是说彼得·安德鲁负责拍摄。

You mean Peter Andrew shoots them.

他也不负责剪辑。

He doesn't edit them either.

好像是玛丽什么的。

It's like Mary something.

我记不起她的名字了。

Can't I remember her name.

是他吗？

Is that him?

对，就是他。

Yeah, it's him.

嗯。

Yeah.

我很高兴他假装雇佣了一位女性。

I'm glad that he's fake employing a woman.

但我想说的是，很多事情都是这样，比如每次做合作项目时，总有人做了事却没得到应有的认可或署名。

But yeah, I guess I just mean that there's a lot of things that happen like even, I mean anytime you do any kind of collaborative project there are people doing things that they don't get credit for or that they don't get written credit for.

就像我们采访过很多导演，尤其是女性导演，特别是原住民女性导演，她们在电影中承担了大量制片工作，却得不到制片人署名。

Like, I think we talked to a lot of directors, especially women, especially indigenous women who end up doing a lot of producing on their film, but they don't get a production credit.

所以，我不知道，我们似乎对这些分类特别着迷，但随后情况变得尤为复杂，因为在文化上，我们不愿将女性视为领导者。

And so, I don't know, it's just like we get really obsessed with these these categories, but then it becomes especially complicated because culturally, we don't wanna see women as as leaders.

既然导演实际上就是一艘船的船长，我们却像是在寻找各种借口，把功劳归于其他方面而非女性。

And since directors are are literally the captain of the ship, it's like we look for any excuse to find something else to get the women credit for.

我们特别制作了一套关于曾参与该竞赛的女性书籍的盒装合集。

We have created a special box set of books that we previously wrote about women who have featured in the competition.

《戛纳女性竞赛》盒装合集收录了多年来入选竞赛的三位女性导演的相关书籍。

The Women in Cannes competition box set includes books about three women directors who have been selected for the competition over the years.

还包括我们最喜爱的三位电影人：琳恩·拉姆齐、瑟琳·席安玛，以及今年的凯莉·莱卡特。

There are also three of our favorite filmmakers, Lynn Ramsey, Celine Syama, and this year, Kelly Reichardt.

请访问seventh-row.com/women@can获取《戛纳女性竞赛》盒装合集。

Get your copy of the Women in Cannes competition box set at seventh-row.com/women@can.

拼写是c a n n e s。

That's c a n n e s.

关于我们的凯莉·莱卡特电子书《无处之路》，凯莉·莱卡特的《破碎的美国梦》，《电影体验》的克劳迪奥·阿尔维斯表示，作为凯莉·莱卡特的粉丝，我强烈推荐《无处之路》。

On our Kelly Reichardt ebook, Roads to Nowhere, Kelly Reichardt's Broken American Dreams, Claudio Alves of The Film Experience said, as a Kelly Reichardt fan, I can't recommend Roads to Nowhere enough.

关于我们的瑟琳·席安玛书籍《抵抗的肖像》，影评人阿尔弗雷德·索托评论道，博学而随性的《抵抗的肖像》将迫使读者重新观看每一部席安玛的电影，以发现他们遗漏的内容。

On our Celine Sciamma book, Portraits of Resistance, film critic Alfred Sotto commented, erudite and casual, portraits of resistance will force readers into running back to watch every Seiyama film to see what they missed.

关于我们的琳恩·拉姆齐电子书《你从未在此》特刊，rogerebook.com的布莱恩·塔拉里科写道，第七排的电子书让人能更深入地欣赏这部杰出的艺术作品。

On our Lynn Rams ebook, You Were Never Really Here, A Special Issue, Brian Talarico of rogerebook.com wrote, seventh Row's ebook allows for a deeper appreciation of a brilliant piece of art.

这正是我们希望从批评分析中获得的更多东西——与艺术及其创作者对话，但很少能实现。

It's what we want more from critical analysis, a conversation with the art and its creators, but so rarely get.

请访问seventh-row.com/women@can获取《戛纳女性竞赛》盒装合集。

Get your copy of the Women in Cannes competition box set at seventh-row.com/women@can.

我是说，结束语就是那样，我也不知道。

I mean, closing closing thoughts are just that, I mean, I don't know.

我喜欢席琳·莎玛，很高兴她的作品存在。

I like Celine Syama, I'm happy her work exists.

希望她能获得更多认可。

I wish she got more recognition.

很高兴她凭借《燃烧女子的肖像》获得了认可。

I'm glad she got it for Portrait of a Lady on Fire.

不知道这对她的事业是否有意义，或者会产生长远影响，但希望如此。

I don't know if that has meant anything for her career or will have long term impact on her career, but fingers crossed.

是啊，我在想，她之后其实没再拍过电影，除了最初那三部，因为我们聊过《燃烧》更浪漫些，《小妈妈》也相对容易观看，讲的是童年故事，很温馨。

Yeah, I mean, I wonder, like, she hasn't really made a film since, like, her first three films since then, because we talked about how Portrait was a bit more romantic and Petite Mama is also a bit sort of an easier watch because it's about childhood and it's quite lovely.

我在想如果她拍出像早期三部曲那样尖锐的作品，观众会如何接受。

And I wonder sort of how it would be received if she made something with the kind of harshness of her first three films.

嗯。

Yeah.

我觉得《燃烧》和《帕蒂玛》带有些许感伤色彩，所以更容易被接受。

I think Portrait and Patimama have a bit of sentimentality that make them go down easier.

不知道这些作品是否为她打开了更广阔的观众群，让他们能接受更具挑战性的内容。

And I don't know if those films have opened her up to a wider audience that would be receptive to something more challenging.

真的不确定。

I'm really not sure.

不过这是个有趣的问题——如果她（不想说新获得的认可）更广泛的观众认知，是否能让她回归那种类型的电影，如果她想的话。

It's an interesting thing to think about, though, if her, I don't want to say newfound recognition, but wider audience recognition would allow her to go back to those types of films if she wanted to.

我猜答案是，她能拍这些电影，只是可能赚不到钱或得不到认可。

I would guess the answer is she could do them, she just might not make money or get any recognition for them.

大概就是这样。

That's probably it.

我想我们没说的是，把话题拉回戛纳，我认为作为瑟琳·席安玛或法国电影人的挑战之一，特别是作为法国那种比较难懂的酷儿导演——我不是说她难相处，而是她的电影需要观众花些功夫才能欣赏。

I guess the thing that we didn't say is, to bring this all back to Cannes, is I think one of the challenges of being Celine Sciamma, or being a French filmmaker, but especially like being a French kind of like difficult queer I don't mean she's a difficult woman, I just mean like her films are not, like they take some work to watch them in a good way.

但面临的挑战是，当你思考国际导演如何突围时——我们在第一集讨论过——这确实能帮上忙。

But the challenges of that is that when you think about how do international directors break out, we talked about this in episode one, can really help some.

作为法国导演在戛纳的困境在于，那里排片多是法国电影。

The challenge with being a French director at Cannes is, like, a bunch of French films are programmed.

你知道，这对法国是好事，毕竟是他们的电影节。

You know, that's good for France because it's their festival.

他们本该多排法国片，就像柏林电影节主打德国电影，多伦多电影节力推加拿大作品那样。

They should program lots of French films just like Berlin programs a bunch of films from Germany and TIFF programs films from Canada that they buried.

不过这都是题外话了。

But anyway, that's a whole other story.

总之，瑟琳·席安玛陷入这种尴尬境地并非她作品的错，《燃烧女子的肖像》和《悲惨世界》同年首映。

But so, like, Celine Sam has kind of been in this kind of shitty position through no fault of her work, but Portrait of a Lady on Fire premiered the same year as Les Miserables.

奥斯卡的滑稽规则是每个国家只能选送一部电影。

The way this silly Oscars work is countries can submit one film.

而且《悲惨世界》被选中确实有其合理原因。

And like, there are good reasons that Les Miserables was the one that was chosen.

虽然我不太喜欢这片子，但我理解他们为何选它。

Like, I don't love it, but I understand why they would have picked it.

同样值得注意的是，就像女性在戛纳电影节上代表性不足一样，黑人导演也是如此。

And it's also sort of like significant as like, just as women are very underrepresented at Cannes, so are black directors.

确实如此。

Exactly, yeah.

我是说，我挺喜欢这部电影的，所以并不完全反对，

And I mean, I like the film quite a bit, so I don't necessarily begrudge Yeah,

我也不认为这是部烂片。

don't think it was a bad film either.

但要知道，它确实击败了《燃烧女子的肖像》入选，这很值得注意——尤其是考虑到这已成模式，去年《小妈妈》同样落选。

Yeah, but it's, you know, it did get chosen over portrait, which is notable, especially as it's now sort of a pattern with Petite Mama also not being chosen this past year.

没错。

Right.

嗯，那是因为她当时正面对金棕榈得主朱利亚·迪库诺...其实这两个选择都很糟糕，因为我觉得瑟琳·席安玛的两部电影比它们都更有观众缘。

Well, and that's because she was up against Palm d'Or winner Julia DeCourneau for I mean, arguably those were both bad choices because I actually think Celine Sciamma's two films have broader appeal than either of those films.

讽刺的是，如果法国真想冲奥，选择席安玛本来更有可能获得提名。

And if France really wanted the Oscar, ironically, actually picking Sciamma probably would have gotten them nominations.

或者短名单上的第三选择是奥黛丽·迪万《正发生》，这部关于堕胎的社会议题电影本有更高概率获得提名——它都拿下威尼斯金狮奖了。

Or the third choice on the shortlist was Audrey Dier one's Are Happening, which is like a very sort of like socially relevant film as a film about abortion, which also probably had a much higher chance of being nominated and won Venice.

所以我觉得这两部都比《钛》更符合奥斯卡口味。

So I think both of those were like much more palatable to the Oscars than Tetan ever was going to be.

果然《钛》连奥斯卡短名单都没进，更别说提名了。

Predictably Tetan wasn't even shortlisted, let alone nominated for the Oscar.

但问题在于突然...我们其实有三部电影，法国一年内涌现出三位女性导演的三部佳作，结果它们要自相残杀。

But that problem of like sudden, like these three We actually have three films, three fetid films by women directors all coming out of France in one year and they have to compete with each other.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而没赢得比赛的那一方就有点倒霉了。

And whichever one doesn't win that competition kind of gets screwed.

你知道，就像Petite Vomain找到了它的受众，但我们可以继续讨论那个发行是怎么搞砸的。

You know, like, Petite Vomain has found its audience, but, like, we could go on about how that distribution was kind of botched.

嗯，发行确实有点搞砸了，像《Portrait》如果处理得好，不管它是否提名国际电影，本可以像去年的《世界上最糟糕的人》那样在其他类别如剧本或《驾驶我的车》那样提名导演和影片。

Well, the distribution was kind of botched with Portrait because Portrait, if handled well, have been a whether it was nominated for international film or not, it could have done what say, Worst Person in the World did this past year and like be nominated in other categories like screenplay or drive my car and director and picture.

就像那一年《寄生虫》的情况一样。

Like that was happening with Parasite the same year.

《Portrait》本有那样的潜力，但没能实现。

And that potential was absolutely there for Portrait and it wasn't delivered on.

哦对，我完全忘了那是同一年，因为这意味着凯莉·雷查德是评审团成员，她给了瑟琳·席安玛最佳剧本奖。

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that that was the same year because that's a fun fact then that that means that Kelly Reichardt was on the jury that gave Celine Sciamma best screenplay.

是的，我们播客中电影人之间的联系。

Yes, connections between our podcast filmmakers.

戛纳竞赛对女性导演的限制。

The Cannes competition with its limit of women.

我是说，他们虽然没有官方声明不会选超过四位女性导演，但鉴于他们从未做到过。

I mean, they don't have an official we won't program more than four women, but given they've never done it.

嗯，除了今年。

Well, except for this year.

除了今年他们总共选了四位半。

Except for They've this gotten the grand total of four and a half.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像她们在互相竞争，而这场竞争在他们策划的女性中更偏爱法国导演。

It's like they're competing against each other and the competition favors French directors among the women that they program.

然后当你好不容易跨过那道坎，现在又得和另外两位同样闯关成功的女性竞争，最终只有一人能获得网络资源。

And then once you make it through that hoop, now you have to compete with, like, the two other women who managed to make it through hoops and then only one of you gets to have like an internet.

这系统真是烂透了。

What a broken system.

这就是我想表达的观点。

It's just where I'm going with this.

我是说，这对所有人都不公平，但深陷其中的女性感觉尤其糟糕。

I mean, it's broken for everyone, but it just feels like extra broken for the women stuck in it.

如果想了解崩坏的体制，可以读读我们的书《抵抗的肖像：苏利与夏玛的电影世界》。

If you wanna hear about broken systems, read our book Portraits of Resistance, a cinema of Sully and Syama.

全书讲述夏玛如何刻画那些在顽固父权体系中幸存，并从中寻找短暂快乐时刻的女性。

All about how Syama depicts women who are surviving unbroken patriarchal systems and finding brief moments of happiness within them.

详情见Syamabook.com。

Syamabook.com.

你也可以收听本播客第一集，我们讨论了戛纳电影节为何失灵。

You can also listen to episode one of this podcast where we talk about why the Cannes Film Festival is broken.

没错。

Yes.

另外值得一提的是，我们正在发售《戛纳竞赛单元女性导演合集》盒装套装，内含三位杰出女性导演的专题电子书，带你探索她们的创作手法与电影主题。

And also we should mention, we are selling a box set right now, which is the Women in the Cannes Competition box set, in which you can discover how three great women directors work and what themes their films explore through an ebook on each of them.

所有曾参加戛纳电影节竞赛单元的导演。

All filmmakers who have appeared in the Cannes competition.

比如林恩·拉姆塞专注于她的电影《你从未在此》。

So those are Lynn Ramsey focusing on her film You Were Never Really Here.

还有我们关于瑟琳·席安玛和凯莉·雷查德的书籍，我们在上一期节目中提到过。

And then our books on Celine Syama and Kelly Reichardt, which we talked about the previous episode.

现在访问seventhshow.com/womencanboxset，就能以二本书的价格获得三本书。

And so that you can get three books for the price of two if you go to seventhshow.com/womencanboxset.

你还能获得《抵抗的肖像》作为套装的一部分。

And you'll get Portraits of Resistance as part of that bundle.

如果想收听更多席安玛相关内容，可以收听我们的《小妈妈》特辑，林赛也在其中出镜。

And if you want to listen to more Syama content, you can listen to our Petite Mama episode, which Lindsay also features on.

那是本播客的第128期节目。

That's episode 128 on this podcast feed.

你也可以收听第96期《睡莲》特辑，我们在那期节目中比较了《睡莲》与《詹妮弗的肉体》对少女强制性异性恋的共同探讨。

And you can also listen to episode 96, our Waterlilies episode, which is an episode in which we compare Waterlilies to Jennifer's body in their shared, explorations of compulsory heterosexuality for teenage girls.

两部非常相似的电影。

Two very similar movies.

这是会员专享节目，所以需要加入会员才能收听。

And that's a members only episode, so you'll have to be a member to listen.

详情请访问seventhrow.com/join。

So you can go to seventhrow.com/join to find out more about that.

除此之外，请收听本系列的前两期节目。

And then other than that, please listen to our previous two episodes in this series.

第一集讲述戛纳电影节中女性的历史，第二集聚焦凯莉·雷查德，我们同样深入探讨她的职业生涯，为她在戛纳的新片预热。

Episode one about the history of women at Cannes and Episode two about Kelly Reichardt in which we similarly dive into her career in advance of her new film at Cannes.

请下周继续收听本季第四集也是最终集，我们将全面介绍'戛纳女王'直哉和子，她在戛纳的参展次数远超其他女性影人。

And please tune in next week for our fourth and final episode in this season, which is all about the Queen of Cannes, Naomi Kowase, who screened at Can more times than any other woman.

本世纪以来，她是达内兄弟之后在戛纳参展次数排名第三的电影人。

And in this century, she is the third most screened person at Can after the Dardans.

那另一个是谁？

And who's the other one?

我想是努里·比格·锡兰。

I think Nuri Bilge Ceylon.

她与另外三人并列第三名。

And she's like tied with three other people in third place there.

谁超过了肯·洛奇？

Who ships up Ken Loach?

可能是...哦，他也在名单上，我想。

It might be Oh, he's on the list too, I think.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这些信息都在我们的资源页面上，我们会在节目说明中添加链接，那里列出了所有曾在戛纳参展的女性影人。

I mean that, all that info is on our, we have a resource page that we'll link in the show notes, which lists like all the women that have ever screened at CAN.

如果你想了解些激动人心的数据，请务必查看，我们在第一集里也会讨论这些内容。

So please take a look at that if you want some very exciting stats, but we talk about that in episode one as well.

没错，我们下周要讨论娜奥米·科阿西，这非常令人兴奋，因为她虽然备受戛纳推崇，却仍有些被低估。

But yes, we're going to be talking about Naomi Khoasi next week, which is very exciting because she is very heralded by Cannes, but still somehow underappreciated.

所以我们来稍微聊聊这个话题。

So we're to talk a bit about that.

我想建议，如果你想在收听那期节目前看两部电影作为准备，我推荐《真正的母亲》和《依然的水》，因为我们在那期节目中讨论最多的是这两部作品。

And I'd suggest that if you want two recommendations for films to watch before you listen to that episode, I'd recommend True Mothers and Still the Water because we talk about them the most on that episode.

目前这两部电影都能在Criterion频道上观看。

They're both available on the Criterion channel at the moment.

那么，林赛，大家在哪里能找到你呢？

Well, where can people find you, Lindsay?

我想你还没提过你的网站叫'Woman in Revolt'吧？

I don't think you've actually said that your site is Woman in Revolt.

网址是womaninrevolt.com。

It's womaninrevolt.com.

我所有的东西都在那儿。

All my shit's on there.

我有个播客节目。

I have a podcast.

最近还评论了几部新电影。

Reviewed some recent films.

是的，去看看吧。

And, yeah, check it out.

那就是我的地盘。

That's my place.

当然，你也可以在凯莉·莱卡特的书《无处之路》中找到相关内容。

And of course, you can also be found in the Kelly Reichardt book, Roads to Nowhere.

确实如此。

That's true too.

谈论关于米克斯的深刻真相或是撰写深刻真相，猜猜看。

Speaking deep truths about Meeks cut off or writing deep truths, guess.

奥拉？

Orla?

你可以在推特上找到我，奥拉·芒果。

You can find me Orla Mango on Twitter.

你可以在第七排找到我的文章，每周还能在这个播客中听到我的声音。

You can find my writing at seventh row and you can find me every week on this podcast.

你可以在推特上找到我，账号是bwestcinast，b w e s t c I n e a s t e。

You can find me on Twitter bwestcinast, b w e s t c I n e a s t e.

你也可以在推特和Instagram上找到我们所有人，账号是seventhrow，s e v e n t h r o w，我们会发布各种数据和新闻，以及与戛纳电影节相关的内容，这些将补充我们在播客中的讨论。

You can also find all of us on Twitter and Instagram seventhrow, s e v e n t h r o w, where we will be posting various stats and news and things related to the Cannes Film Festival that will complement what we're doing on the podcast.

如果你想直接将这些内容发送到你的收件箱，你可以加入我们的邮件列表。

If you'd like some of that stuff delivered straight to your inbox, you can actually join our mailing list.

如果你特别关注戛纳女性相关内容，可以访问email.seventh-row.com/women@can。

And if you want specifically the women at can stuff, that's at email.seventh-row.comslashwomen@can.

我们会在节目说明中放上相关链接。

We'll put a link to that in the show notes.

如果你喜欢这一期节目，请务必给它评分并留下评论。

And if you like this episode, please, please, please rate and review it.

我们非常希望能听到您的反馈，这对我们帮助巨大。

We would love to hear from you and it helps massively.

另外，如果您想发送更长的内容，可以发邮件至contactseventhrow.com，分享您对本集的看法。

Also, I mean, you can also, if you want to send us a longer thing, you can email us at contactseventh row dot com and tell us your thoughts about the episode.

如果您愿意，我们很乐意在未来的播客节目中朗读并分享您的观点。

We would love to, if you're comfortable with it, read out your thoughts on a future podcast episode and share them.

正值戛纳电影节期间，我们特别希望更多人能收听本季内容，尤其是关于戛纳女性的讨论。我们认为在电影节热潮中，探讨戛纳如何评价（或忽视）女性电影人的话题至关重要。

And we'd also like with Cannes going on right now, really love for more people to listen to this season, particularly about women at Cannes because we think that the conversation about like the way Can values or does not value female filmmakers is a really important one to have alongside all the hype that comes with the film festival.

人们确实对亲临戛纳、观看热门新片感到兴奋，这完全可以理解。

I mean people are sort of like very excited to be at Cannes and to be seeing all the hot new movies And I understand that and I think that's fair.

但我们也需要持续讨论：作为具有巨大影响力的品味制造机构，戛纳在存在诸多结构性问题的同时，其影片评价标准的问题同样不容忽视。

But I think, you know, we also need to have the conversation about how the fact that Cannes is such a huge taste making institution while having so many structural problems about what films it values is like really important to like consistently have alongside that.

因此我们希望能为这场讨论提供一些背景视角。

So we would love to help give some context to that conversation.

如果您喜欢本系列节目，请分享给可能感兴趣的人或在社交媒体上传播，可以使用#戛纳女性话题标签。

So please, if you are liking this series, please share it with any individual that you think would be interested or on social media and help us spread the word, you can use the hashtag women at CAN to do so.

下周请收听我们的娜奥米·夸西专题节目。

Tune in next week for our Naomi Kwasi episode.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.