答案引擎优化（AEO）已至…公共关系准备好了吗？

感谢收听《故事与策略》。如果你是常驻听众，我想请你帮个忙。如果你使用苹果或Spotify平台，请给我们评分。你可以在节目播放时直接操作，只需稍微往下滑动页面。

Thanks for listening to stories and strategies. If you're a regular listener, I've got a favor to ask. If you're on Apple or Spotify, please leave a rating. You can do that while the episode is still playing. Just scroll down a bit.

这些评分对吸引新听众收听播客大有帮助。如果你是《故事与策略》的新听众，非常欢迎你的加入。听完节目后，希望你能在你使用的收听平台上关注我们，并在合适时留下评分。好了，现在让我们进入本期节目。

These ratings really go a long way to encourage new listeners to check out the podcast. If you are a new listener to Stories and Strategies, awesome to have you. After you listen, it would be great if you chose to follow us on whatever directory you're listening on, and leave a rating when you feel comfortable. Okay. Let's get to your episode.

二十世纪四十年代，广播的黄金时期，两位巨匠展开较量。他们互相嘲讽、插科打诨，观众们乐此不疲。赞助商也爱看这场好戏。后来电视出现了，其中一位成功转型蓬勃发展，另一位则逐渐淡出。

In the nineteen forties, during radio's golden age, two giants sparred. They hurled insults, traded jokes, and audience just couldn't get enough. Sponsors loved it too. Then came television. One of the giants adapted and thrived, the other faded.

这就是杰克·本尼与弗雷德·艾伦的故事。

This is the story of Jack Benny and Fred Allen.

来自好莱坞的《杰克·本尼秀》特别嘉宾——斯莫瑟斯兄弟。

From Hollywood, the Jack Benny program with his special guest, the Smothers Brothers.

有个冷知识你或许不知道：杰克·本尼和弗雷德·艾伦并非敌人，尽管他们让听众深信不疑。这场假戏真做的'世仇'成了广播史上持续时间最长的喜剧对决。诸如'本尼天生愚钝，此后每况愈下'这样的毒舌段子逗笑了数百万听众。但在笑声背后，鲜为人知的是两人真挚的友谊。

Here's something you may not know. Jack Benny and Fred Allen were not enemies, although they made their listeners believe they were. Their mock feud became radio's longest running comic rivalry. Barbs like Benny was born ignorant, and he's been losing ground ever since made millions laugh. Beneath the laughter, though, a friendship sparkled that few suspected.

在广播界，两人都光芒四射。弗雷德·艾伦犀利的时事评论为他赢得了'广播界最受推崇喜剧演员'的美誉。

On radio, both men shone. Fred Allen's witty topical commentary earned him the reputation as radio's most admired comedian.

好了，振作点，杰克。至少我们还有共同的回忆。我们相识已有三十年了。没错，弗雷德，我第一次见到你时，还是个在校学生。

Well, cheer up, Jack. At least we have our memories. We've known each other for thirty years. Yep. The first time I met you, Fred, I was just a kid in school.

一个商人，一块钱，一个十点才上学的学生。你是我见过的唯一一个五点就有胡茬的十点学生。

A dealer, a dollar, a 10:00 scholar. You were the only 10:00 scholar I ever saw with 05:00 shadow.

而杰克·本尼凭借他完美的节奏感、自嘲式的停顿和吝啬鬼形象成为了国宝级人物。

And Jack Benny with his perfect timing, self deprecating pauses, and penny pinching persona was a national treasure.

突然间我就变得小气了。我连阳光下都不愿吃东西——怕我的影子会跟我要一口。你的影子长牙齿了？看啊。

All of a sudden, I'm cheap. I won't even eat in the sun. My shadow might ask me for a bite. Your shadow has teeth? Look.

杰克，别激动，听我说。如果你小气，那就是小气。我就是这么看的。

Jack, don't Jack, don't get excited. Look. If you're cheap, you're cheap. That's the way I look at it.

是的。当电视时代来临，规则改变了。杰克·本尼迅速投身新媒介，观众也随之而来。他将广播节目模式创新性地移植到电视上，把熟悉的角色和标志性的节奏带进了小荧幕。他无缝衔接地延续了辉煌，并在未来多年持续取得成功。

Yeah. When television arrived, the rules changed. Jack Benny leaped into the new medium, and audiences followed. He reinvented his radio format for TV, carrying familiar characters and signature pacing onto the small screen. He picked up right where he'd left off and continued to flourish for years to come.

弗雷德·艾伦虽然同样才华横溢，却心存顾虑。他曾调侃说电视是半生不熟的媒介。他不喜欢现场摄像机、混乱的剧组或是早期电视制作的不确定性，也怀疑自己的广播风格能否转化为视觉呈现。于是他选择留在原地，结果显而易见。

Fred Allen, though equally talented, had reservations. He once quipped, television is a medium because nothing is well done. He did not relish live cameras, crew chaos, or the unpredictability of early TV production, and he doubted that his radio style would translate to visuals. So he stayed behind. The result was clear.

杰克·本尼成为了电视常客，而弗雷德·艾伦尽管在广播界光芒四射，却逐渐黯淡。艾伦许多依赖时机与想象力的表演形式在视觉主导的媒介中难以为继。他的《艾伦小巷》和讽刺新闻模仿秀曾凭借想象力大放异彩，但电视并非微妙机智的沃土。

Jack Benny became a TV staple. Fred Allen's star for all its radio brilliance dimmed. Many of Allen's routines rooted in timing and imagination could not survive in a medium where visuals took precedence. His Allen's Alley and sarcastic news parodies thrived on imagination. Television was not the place for subtle wit.

讽刺的是，他们的遗产至今仍相互交织。艾伦的广播天才被喜剧史学家称颂，本尼的适应力使他成为横跨两种媒介的家喻户晓人物。他们共同带来的欢笑提醒我们：才华必须与新时代的舞台相遇。如今的舞台更视觉化，且日益由AI驱动。

The irony is that their legacy remains intertwined. Allen's radio genius is celebrated by comedy historians. Benny's adaptability made him a household name across two media. The laughter they shared reminds us that talent must meet the new stage. Today's stage is more visual and increasingly AI driven.

正如昔日的广播明星面临转型或消失的十字路口，今天的公关从业者同样如此。SEO曾一度足够，如今信誉必须在新颖的、近乎问答驱动的环境中建立。本期《故事与策略》探讨这个时代——可见性不仅需要声量，更需要信任、权威与专业。正如弗雷德·艾伦可能会说：至少有人是清楚自己在做什么的。

Just as radio stars of old faced a crossroads to adapt or vanish, so do PR professionals today. SEO was once enough. Now credibility must connect in new, almost answer driven environments. Today on Stories and Strategies, it's the era where visibility demands not just volume, but trust, authority, and expertise. As Fred Allen might say, at least somebody knows what they're doing on purpose.

我是道格·唐斯。

My name is Doug Downs.

我是法扎娜·巴德朱尔。本周的嘉宾是来自密歇根州弗里蒙特的乔纳森·马斯特。你好，乔纳森。

And my name is Fazana Badjual. Our guest this week is Jonathan Mast joining us from Fremont, Michigan. Hi, Jonathan.

早上好，两位今天怎么样？不错。

Hello. How are you both this morning? Good.

非常好。密歇根那边情况如何？

Very good. How are things in Michigan?

很高兴能说我不会在这里待太久了。我差不多准备好回阿拉巴马州了，那里更温暖阳光更充足。不过今天天气确实很好。现在正值夏末秋初，所以稍微凉爽些，而且今天阳光明媚，这在西密歇根可不常见。真是美好的一天。

Well, I'm glad to say that I'm not gonna be here much longer. I'm just about ready to head back to Alabama, which is warmer and sunnier. So but today is a beautiful day. It's a it's we're in early autumn, late summer, so it's a little bit cooler, and that the sun is shining today, which is unusual in West Michigan. So it's a beautiful day.

听起来挺严重的。今天伦敦一直在下雨，没停过。

Sounds heavily. It's been raining nonstop in London today.

嗯，这不就是伦敦嘛，对吧？天天都这样不是吗？

Well, there you go. It's London, right? Doesn't it? Every day?

没错，一贯如此。那么乔纳森，你是一位AI战略家，1995年从数字营销起步，如今已是Valorous Circle和White Beard策略背后的七位数企业家。你建立并培育了拥有超过50万成员的AI主题社区，被公认为AI提示工程领域备受追捧的演讲者和导师。

Yeah. Always on brand. Yeah. Now, Jonathan, you are an AI strategist starting in digital marketing in 1995 and now a 7 figure entrepreneur behind Valorous Circle and White Beard strategies. You've built and nurtured AI focused communities with over half a million members and are regarded as a sought after speaker and mentor in the AI prompt engineering space.

你教导说AI的真正力量在于放大专业深度，激励可信的领导者以更快更智能的方式发挥所长。

You teach that the real power of AI lies in amplifying deep expertise, encouraging trusted leaders to do what they do best, but faster and smarter.

所以乔纳森，我想先从我和法尔扎纳之间这个小分歧开始。SEO（搜索引擎优化）现在正演变成AEO（答案引擎优化）或GEO（生成引擎优化）。在我看来AEO占主导地位，但法尔扎纳用谷歌搜索时，GEO明显是使用频率最高的术语——我们到底该用哪个术语？这重要吗？诸如此类的问题...

So, Jonathan, I wanna start with, like, this little mini bone of contention between Farzana and me. SEO, search engine optimization, is now evolving into either AEO, answer engine optimization, or GEO Mhmm. Generative engine optimization. I, in my world, see AEO is dominating, but when Farzana searches on Google, for what it's worth, GEO comes up as by far and away the number one term that people which term are we using? Does it matter and blah blah blah?

好问题。我可能没法让你们俩都满意，因为我认为术语本身并不重要。我坚信对于关心如何在搜索引擎和AI模型中获得排名的普通商务人士而言，这本质上仍是搜索引擎优化。在我看来，从搜索诞生的第一天起有件事始终未变——顺便说一句我比法尔扎纳年长得多，还记得互联网早期有Ask Jeeves和AltaVista这样的网站。谷歌刚出现时，它的核心使命很简单：为我们提供最准确相关的搜索结果。

Great question. Well, I'm probably not gonna make either of you happy because I don't think the term really matters. I I I really believe that when we're talking the average business person out there that cares about how do they rank on search engines, how do they rank with AI models, that it's still search engine optimization. One thing that in my mind hasn't changed from day one of search, and again, I'm far older than Farzana, so I can I can certainly remember back to the early days of the internet when we had things like Ask Jeeves and AltaVista? When Google started, it was really simple to give us the most accurate and relevant results to our search query.

这仍然是每个人都在努力的方向。只是游戏规则已经改变，因为我们现在使用的是ChatGPT、Gemini、Claude等工具，而非谷歌。事实上，我已经不记得上次用谷歌搜索是什么时候了。

That's still what everybody's trying to do. It's just that game has changed because now we're using things like ChatGPT and Gemini and Claude and other tools instead of using Google. In fact, I don't remember the last time I actually used Google to do a search.

你也觉得确实如此吧？但为什么公关专业人士要关心SEO和AEO？从公关角度看，你认为它们是并行作为独立渠道策略存在，还是认为AEO可能会让传统SEO过时？

Do know that's so true? But why should PR professionals care about SEO and AEO? And do you see them running just in parallel as separate sort of channel approaches from a PR lens? Or do you see that AEO is likely to make traditional SEO obsolete?

从公关角度来看，我认为AEO（答案引擎优化）才是未来的趋势。我这么认为是因为对大多数人而言，搜索引擎优化意味着关键词——比如‘我要成为佛罗里达州塔拉哈西市最好的脊椎按摩师吗？’而谷歌正在推动的答案引擎优化，也是AI引擎的发展方向，核心在于：你是否是所在领域的专家？

I think from a PR perspective, AEO or answer engine optimization is really where the game is moving, so to speak. And the reason I believe that is that search engine optimization to most people implies keywords. You know? Am am I going to be the best chiropractor in Tallahassee, Florida or wherever that we wanna search? And answer engine optimization, which is really where Google's pushing, where they're trying to get us to and I can where I think the the AI engines are going is based on, are you an expert in your niche?

在公关领域，我们要么在解决问题，要么在证明客户确实是行业专家。基于此，我认为关键在于回答问题。马库斯·谢里丹写过一本很棒的书《他们问，你答》，虽然不完全是公关书籍，但非常契合——因为受众寻求的是问题答案。如果通过公关工作能确保客户向受众提供这些答案，自然就能获得良好排名和积极影响。

And when it comes to PR, we're either trying to deal with a problem or we're trying to demonstrate that our client is indeed an expert in their niche. And based upon that, I really believe that it's answering questions. Marcus Sheridan wrote a great book about this called, they ask you answer. And while it wasn't a PR book per se, I think it really fits because our audiences are looking for answers to their questions. And if through our PR work, we can make sure that we're helping our clients provide those answers to their audience, then naturally, they're going to rank well and they're gonna have positive impact from what we're doing.

乔纳森，那谷歌会怎样？我已经不用谷歌搜索了，ChatGPT简直成了我们婚姻中的‘第三者’，事无巨细我都在问它。

Jonathan, what's gonna happen to Google then? I mean, I've stopped Googling. I mean, I'm just, you know, ChatuchuBT is the third person in our marriage. I ask ChatuchuBT everything, everything.

我也是。

I do too.

就是不再用谷歌了。我尝试过使用它，他们在搜索结果开头加入了AI搜索，但就是不如ChatGPT那么直观易用。我现在连语音笔记都在那个应用上完成，它已经成为我生活的一部分。所以谷歌会何去何从呢？

Just don't use Google anymore. And I've tried to use it and they've got this AI search in the beginning, in the results. But it's just, I don't know, it's just not as intuitive and easy to use as, say, Chatuchu Bt. And I've got these little voice note things that I do on the app and it's just become like a part of my life. So what's gonna happen to Google?

好消息是，尽管我有所担忧，谷歌实际上正在成为人工智能领域的巨头。现在有趣的是——虽然我不确定要深入探讨到什么程度——但众所周知，谷歌广告是其摇钱树，正是它造就了今天的谷歌。谷歌涉足众多领域，但真正为其带来数百亿收入的正是其广告平台。而这一切即将改变，他们正积极研究如何在AI时代有效实现商业化。他们的AI工具非常出色，我认为这将改变部分收入来源。

Well, the good news is that despite my fears, Google actually is becoming a powerhouse on the AI side. Now the interesting move, and and I don't know how deeply wanna get into this is, you know, Google Ads is the cash cow that has made Google what it is. I mean, Google does a lot of things, but it's Google Ads platform that has made it the billions and billions of dollars that it has. That is that is gonna be changing, and they're they're actively trying to figure out how do they effectively monetize that now in an AI world. So, you know, their AI tools are are fantastic, and I think that's going to change where some of that revenue comes from.

但同样，我认为情况正变得越来越复杂，因为这不再仅仅基于关键词。通过各种文件我们了解到，谷歌实际上并未如我们想象的那样阅读大部分内容，而是通过观察用户互动等方式进行评估。综合来看，我认为谷歌搜索将永远改变。虽然至今谷歌仍是搜索的代名词，但我不认为未来还会如此。

But again, I also think it's getting more and more difficult because of the fact that it's not just based on keywords anymore. We've learned that, you know, through various, filings that Google actually wasn't reading most of our content anyway, despite what we thought. They were actually, you know, they were looking at how people interacted with it and things like that. And so when you pull all that together, I think that that search in Google will probably never be the same. Google was synonymous with search up until well, even say now today, but I don't believe moving forward that Google will be synonymous with search any longer.

所以这是从SEO转向基于情感的分析，对吧？关键词概念在大多数算法中已有七到十年历史了。没错，它已经进化了。

So so it went from SEO to sentiment based analysis. Right? The whole keyword thing really is in most algorithms, that's seven, ten years old, that concept. Correct. It's evolved.

这是否意味着情感分析正在演变为'你回答了哪些问题'和'你展示了何种权威性'？

Does that mean sentiment analysis is now evolving into what questions did you answer and what authority do you display?

我认为是的，这是我的观点。对。而且要从消费者角度思考这个问题。

I believe so. That's my opinion. Yes. Yeah. And, again, think about it from a from a consumer's perspective.

如果我带着问题去谷歌或ChatGPT，不是为了随便看看，而是为了获得答案。那么如果能找到那些在业务中直接解答我问题的企业和个人，这些品牌自然会在我这里建立更高可信度——因为他们展现了专业能力、经验积累，理想情况下还包括来自客户的权威认可和信任。

If I've got questions, I want answers. I'm going to Google. I'm going to ChatGPT not to get whatever, but I'm going to get answers. And so if I can find people that in businesses that are answering my questions, innately, businesses and individuals, those brands are going to have improved credibility with me because they've demonstrated that expertise. They've demonstrated that experience, hopefully that authority, and in a good world or the perfect world, trust from their customers along with that.

我注意到领英动态里充斥着大量ChatGPT生成的内容。我认识其中一些发布者，深知他们根本不具备相关洞察力，文风也完全不符。难道我们要面临这种局面：人人都突然成了思想领袖，批量生产这类内容，但实际上他们表面输出的专业度与现实能力存在彻底脱节？

I've noticed a lot of sort of Chatuche BT generated content flying around in my LinkedIn feeds. And I know some of the people who you know, who are sort of posting them. And I know they don't have that insight and they don't write, you know, like that. And so are we gonna be in a position where everyone and their grandmother is now a thought leader and they are churning up this thought leadership content. But then there's a total disconnect between the expertise that they are optically putting out and then the reality.

消费者将如何应对这种差异？

And how are consumers going to be able to navigate that difference?

嗯，我认为这是个很好的问题，但关键在于模型的经验和权威性部分会发挥作用。那个实习生要展示经验会非常困难。他们或许能写出一篇好文章，甚至两三篇，但绝不可能写出100篇好文章，因为他们根本无法做到足够精准的提示。

Well, I think, you know, it's an excellent question, but I think that's where the experience and the authoritativeness part of the model come through. It is going to be very difficult for that intern to demonstrate experience. And they may be able to write a good article. They may be able to write two or three good articles. They're not gonna be able to write a 100 good articles because they're simply not gonna be able to prompt it well enough.

他们缺乏经验去了解细节，无法将一个概念拓展成四篇文章。

They're not gonna have the experience to know the minutiae be able to take one concept and turn it into four articles.

所以这牵扯到我对初级和中级公关岗位未来发展的看法——关键在于我们如何优化AI提示，以及如何重构AI的初始产出。我并不是说不会有优秀写手存在，总有人写得特别出色，对吧？

So so this pulls on where I kinda think the functionality of a lot of junior and mid level PR roles are going. How well we prompt the AI, then how well we recraft what the AI originally produces. So I'm not saying there won't be great writers. There will be people who write so darn. Right?

他们不需要AI之类的工具。但对于我们99%的人来说，重点在于如何优化AI提示和后续调整。关于提示技巧部分有什么想法吗？我们怎样才能成为最优秀的提示工程师？是不是只要让AI回答这个领域内的各种常见问题就行？

And they don't need AI and blah blah blah. But for the vast 99% of us, it's how well we prompt the AI and how well we shape it on the other side. Any ideas on on especially that prompting part? How do we become the best prompt engineer we can be? Is it simply to tell the AI, answer a lot of different common questions within this?

我是否需要同时使用不同平台？不仅用ChatGPT，还该用Gemini、Clode、Perplexity等所有工具来共同创作一篇博客吗？

And do I have to use different, not just ChatGPT, but should I be using Gemini and Clode and and Perplexity and all of them to craft one blog?

作为专家，我们需要做的是训练AI了解我们的特性。比如你要帮我写新闻稿，道格。我不会冲进你办公室说'嘿道格，我要篇新闻稿，周一交'然后转身就走。因为你会说'没问题乔纳森'。

As an expert, what we need to do is we need to be training the AI on who we are. You know, let's say you're gonna write a press release for me, Doug. I'm not gonna walk into your office and go, hey, Doug, I need a press release. See need it on Monday and turn around and walk away. Because you're gonna go, Jonathan, no problem.

但等一下，我有些问题要问。哦，没问题，我会回答你的问题。这正是我们经常在使用AI时忽略的部分。

But hang on. I got some questions. And oh, no problem. I'm then gonna answer the questions you've got. That's the part that we so often miss with AI.

我们开始吧，我需要一份新闻稿，而且必须在周一前完成，然后我们就启动。ChatGPT或我们使用的任何引擎会试图填补一些空白。也许我们会给它一些背景信息，但这些信息并不充分，因为我们把它当作老虎机一样对待——只想拉动摇杆，然后期待得到完美回应。事实并非如此。这和道格你写新闻稿是一个道理——如果我们共事一两年后，你很可能能写出完全符合我要求的稿件，因为你已经足够了解我。

We go, I need a press release and I need it by Monday, and then we press go. And ChatGPT or whatever engine we're using tries to fill in some blanks. Maybe we give it a little context, but it's not very good context because we're we're treating it like a slot machine where we wanna pull that lever, and we want the perfect response back out of it. That's not how it happens. It's no different than you know, Doug, you could probably write a a press release that absolutely what I was working wanted after we'd worked together for a year or two because you'd know me that well.

但第一次互动时不会这么顺利。AI也是如此。作为专家，你需要与AI协作，让它了解你是谁，向它提供你的信息，并且需要反复沟通。这是协作关系，不是老虎机游戏。

But the first interaction, it's not gonna work that way. And so it's the same thing with AI. As an expert, you need to work with AI, you need to let it know who you are, you need to give it information about you, and you need to go back and forth. It is a collaborative experience, not a slot machine experience.

我认为我们对Chatcha Beatty等AI确实存在某种天真的看法，几乎把它当作神灯精灵——只需输入一个提示，魔法就会发生。其实我们应该像管理初级员工那样，先为其提供背景信息。

I think we do have this slightly naive approach to Chatcha Beatty and others, where it's almost like this magic genie. Just give it a single prompt and then, you know, magic will happen. Yeah, And so, don't exactly. It's like a slot machine. Actually, way we should be looking at it is the way that we perhaps manage a junior is we give them the context.

我们要明白，AI需要先理解并掌握某些关键信息才能完成初稿。当它反馈时，就像对待同事一样进行反复讨论。这个视角很有趣——或许我们该把它当作人类看待，而非一台需要投币的老虎机。

We understand that they need to understand and to grasp certain insights in order for them to create the first draft. And when they bring it back, just like you would with a colleague to go back and forth and discuss it. That's a really interesting. And I think maybe we should look at it like a human as opposed to looking at like a slot machine that it it needs that.

我能给它起个名字吗？这样会有帮助吗？

Can I give it a name? Would that help?

如果这能让你感觉好些的话...不过我觉得AI根本不在乎这个。就像我和新来的实习生或团队成员合作时，我不会预设他们了解我的组织或我本人——这些都需要我亲自教导。

If if that makes you feel better. I don't think it makes I don't think the AI cares one way or the other. You know? But, again, much like just like you're talking, Verezano, when when I bring a new intern in or a new person on my team, I don't trust that they know everything about my organization or that they know everything about me. I have to teach them that.

我必须向他们提供信息。所以我给他们年度报告审阅，提交我们完成的提案，分发我们的营销材料副本。这正是我担心的部分——我们许多人在AI应用上做得不够好。

I have to give them information. So I give them our annual report to review. I give them proposals that we've done. I give them copies of our marketing material. That's the part I'm I I fear that too many of us we fail at with AI.

或者我们稍微尝试一下，就像你说的法扎娜，它可能帮我们完成了80%到90%，但没能彻底解决问题。然后我们就觉得，哎呀，这AI玩意儿真差劲。其实不然，如果换成同事，我们会说‘哇，这个开头很棒，基础很扎实。不过这部分需要再看看，让我们把这里再完善一下’。

Or we give it a little bit and it comes back as you were saying, Farzana, maybe it gets us 80 to 90% of the way there, but doesn't get us all the way there. And then we're like, well, that that that AI stuff, that just stinks. Well, no, because if it was a coworker, we'd go, wow, this is really good start. This is solid. But here, this section we need to take a look at and let's let's flush this out a little bit over here.

这才是我们的工作方式——来回沟通磨合。但对AI我们往往不这么做，只是被动接受它的输出，然后直接评判，而不是像对待实习生那样——一个非常聪明、反应极快但需要指导的实习生——将其视为迭代协作的过程。

That's what we do. We go back and forth. And we don't tend to do that with AI. We tend to take what it gives us and then we read it and we judge it based upon what we have right there, as opposed to treating it as an iterative collaborative process like we would with an intern, a really smart, really fast intern, but that still needs direction.

确实如此。最后一个问题，乔纳森。你认为正在收听的PR从业者应该开始关注哪些AI工具？特别是针对SEO和AEO的？我知道AEO更是你的专长领域。

Yeah. Absolutely. Last question, Jonathan. Any AI tools that you think PR people tuning in should start looking at and playing around with, particularly for SEO and AEO? I know AEO is more your thing.

没错。如果你还没关注最新发布的Agenic类软件，真的该开始使用了。比如Manus（m-a-n-u-s），还有GenSpark（g-e-n-Spark）等工具。当然，ChatGPT现在也推出了自己的版本。

Yeah. If if you're not looking at some of the new Agenix software that's being released, you really need to start using that. Tools like Manus, m a n u s. There are other tools like GenSpark, g e n Spark. And then, of course, ChatGPT has now released its own version.

Perplexity也推出了类似版本。这些工具都值得关注，因为关键区别在于：Agenic AI现在能接受目标指令，自动生成任务清单，并执行多项任务来实现目标。而传统AI虽然也有用，但需要我们逐步提示‘给我大纲→分解每个部分→撰写各章节’。

Perplexity has kind of released its own version. Those are all tools that you need to be looking at because the big difference is is that Agenic AI, actually, we can now give an objective. It will develop a task list for that, and it will then proceed down to execute multiple tasks in order to achieve an objective as opposed to standard AI, which is still very helpful, but where we basically have to prompt it. Give me the outline. Now, break down each section.

Agenic AI会自主完成整个流程，耗时相当，但无需你持续指导。

Now, write each section. Agenic AI will go through that entire process and will take just as long, except that you won't have to be directing it.

所以，基本上你的意思是，抵抗是徒劳的。

So, basically, what you're saying, resistance is futile.

百分之百。

100%.

好的。这真是勇敢新世界。非常感谢。

Okay. That's brave new world. Thank you so much.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

在你离开前，我们上一位嘉宾苏珊娜·门多萨还有个问题。你准备好了吗？

Before you go, one last question from our previous guest, Susanna Mendoza. Are you ready?

准备好了。

I am.

而且你不能用你的AI代理或其他任何辅助。

And you can't and you can't use your agent AIs or whatever.

没问题。把手举起来。我什么都没在输入。

No problem. Hands hands up. I'm not typing anything.

我想要一个真人的回应。我想看看

I want a human response. I wanna see

你的手。

your hands.

好的。没错。这就是她问的。

Okay. Right. So this is what she asked.

其他公关专业人士或机构使用什么工具来让日常工作更轻松？

What tools do other, PR professionals or agencies, what do they use to make their lives easier on the day to day?

嗯，我要重点强调一下我提到的部分代理——Agenic AI，实际上会是Agenic浏览器。我们看到新浏览器不断涌现。我自己也经历过那个年代，记得网景、IE那些浏览器。每次新版本发布我们都特别兴奋，因为会有新功能。

Well, I'm going to just double down on on a portion of the agents that I talk about, the Agenic AI, and it's going to be actually Agenic browsers. So we're seeing new web browsers come out. Getting on a date myself. I remember when it was Netscape, Internet Explorer, and all those types of things. We we got excited every time they had a new release because it'd be new features.

我们看到全新一代浏览器正在出现，它们是基于AI的代理浏览器。前几天我跟你说过的那封邮件就是用这种浏览器处理的。它直接内置在浏览器里。市面上已经有好几款了，不过主流产品还不多。Perplexity就有一款很不错的。

We're seeing an entirely new breed of web browsers come out and they're AI based agenic browsers. That's what I used to do the email that I talked to you about the other day. It's built into the browser. There's a number of them that are out, very few major players. Perplexity has a great one.

我完全忘了另一个的名字。有一个叫Dia的。所以确实存在这样的工具。对我来说，如果身处公关行业，我非常需要这种工具——不仅因为我能接触AI，更因为当我在做研究之类的工作时，浏览器里的AI能直接读取我打开的所有标签页。想象一下，你的浏览器内置了这样一个功能：它能把我正在查看的、与某个主题相关的所有内容自动汇总起来。

I just totally forgot the name of the other one. There's one called Dia. So there are some out there. That into me, if I'm in the PR world, I need that because not only do I have access to AI, but as I'm going through, let's say, I'm doing research or something like that, that AI now through my browser can access every tab I have open. Imagine having a tool in your browser just built in that says, I wanna take the everything that I'm looking at related to this topic and I want you to summarize it for me.

它不需要你手动复制粘贴或输入网址，而是直接扫描你浏览器里打开的17个标签页，识别出相关页面，几秒钟内就能帮你生成摘要。所以我认为即将问世的工具会是基于AI的网页浏览器。

And instead of having to copy and paste and put in URLs, it literally looks at the 17 tabs that you have opened on your browser, identifies which ones are about this, and then helps bring all that into a summary for you in seconds. So I think the tool that is just now coming out is gonna be AI based web browsers.

这可是独家消息。

You heard it here.

好的，乔纳森该你了。你想给下一位嘉宾留什么问题？我期待听到门萨级别的提问，要有点深度。

Okay. Your turn, Jonathan. What question would you like to leave for the next guest? I'm expecting something from Mensa here. I'm expecting something deep.

别别别别把问题想得太复杂。我是个很简单的人。我想问你下一位受访者的问题非常简单：他们将如何帮助团队接纳AI，而不是被AI取代？因为作为领导者，我相信这是我们的责任。

Oh, don't don't don't don't over overshadow what this could be. I'm I'm a really simple guy. My question for the next person that you interview is really very simple. And that is how are they going to help their team embrace AI as opposed to getting replaced by AI. Because as leaders, I believe that's our responsibility.

这问题太棒了，非常人性化。

That is such a good it that's a human human question.

没错。

Right.

因为这在历史长河中已经上演过多少次了。对吧？

Because this has played out how many times through the course of history. Right?

几十次了。而且结果总是如出一辙。我们总能看到危言耸听在前，天呐世界要毁灭了。没错。

Dozens of times. And and the the the results are always the same. We have fear mongering on the front going, oh my gosh. The world's gonna come to an end. Right.

无论是印刷机、蒸汽机、内燃机，还是互联网，本质上都一样。

It doesn't matter whether we talk the printing press, the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, the Internet for that matter.

计算机，互联网。

Computers, Internet.

各种事物都是如此。现实最终总是会有人被取代。这就是技术发展的规律。顺便说，电力问世时也发生过同样的事。

All kinds of things. Yeah. The reality always ends up being there are people that get displaced. This is what happens with technology. By the way, the same thing happened when electricity came on.

你知道，城市里不再需要专人外出用煤气灯照明了。对。这就是那个词的由来。

You know, cities no longer have positions for people to go out and light with Gaslighting. Flame. Yeah. Yeah. That's where that came from.

那些岗位已经不存在了，我们也很庆幸它们消失了。但技术总会取代某些岗位。在我看来，区别在于它取代的是岗位而非人，而且本不必让人被取代。

Those positions don't exist anymore, and and we're thankful they don't. But there are technology always displaces some positions. To me, the difference is it displaces positions, not people, and it doesn't have to displace people.

太棒了。乔纳森，今天真的非常感谢你。全程都发人深省。

Amazing. Jonathan, really appreciate this today. Thought provoking all the way.

谢谢。

Thank you.

感谢邀请。总是很愉快。

Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure.

以下是我们在与乔纳森·马斯克对话中提炼出的三个关键点。第一，AEO比关键词更重要。乔纳森强调答案引擎优化是公关的未来，要将焦点从关键词转向展示专业能力并解答受众问题。第二，谷歌在AI搜索中不断演变的角色。乔纳森预言谷歌将不再等同于搜索，因为AI模型正在改变内容消费和变现方式，新的重点在于专业度、经验、权威性和可信度。

So here are the top three things that we gleaned from our convo with Jonathan Mask. Number one, AEO's importance over keywords. Jonathan emphasizes that answer engine optimization is the future for PR shifting focus from keywords to demonstrating expertise and answering audience questions. Number two, Google's evolving role in AI search. Jonathan predicts in his crystal ball that Google will no longer be synonymous with search as AI models are changing how content is consumed and monetized with a new emphasis on expertise, experience, authority, and trust.

我们还准备了一个好记的缩写EEAT——专业度(Expertise)、经验(Experience)、权威性(Authority)和可信度(Trust)。第三点，AI放大的经验价值。乔纳森指出AI对有经验的专业人士是倍增器，能让他们产出更多高质量内容，在消费者只关注内容实用性（无论是否AI生成）时保持对经验不足者的优势。

And we have a shiny mnemonic for you, EEAT. Expertise, experience, authority, and trust. Now number three, experience amplified by AI. Jonathan asserts that AI acts as a multiplier for experienced professionals, enabling them to produce more high quality content and maintain their advantage over less experienced individuals as consumers seek helpful content regardless of its AI origin.

你怎么看？我看到他提到的所有工具，就像圣诞节收到一堆闪亮礼物的小孩，每个都想玩，对吧？

What do you think? I saw all the, heard all the tools that he was talking about. I felt like that little boy at Christmas, and there's all these shiny presents, and I wanna play with them all. Right?

说实话，光是听他说着我们就已经开始下载Manus了。天啊，功能太多了。知道最让人兴奋的是什么吗？

I mean, we already just listening to him just started downloading Manus Yeah. And we're already just using it. So my god. There is so much. And you know what's really exciting?

有了AI，每天都会像圣诞节一样，实际上发展会呈指数级增长。光是现有工具的持续更新就应接不暇，更不用说新工具了。我认为最大的挑战在于如何判断哪些工具值得我们学习，因为

It's gonna be like Christmas every day with AI because, actually, it's gonna be exponential. Just the just the constant updates of the existing tools, let alone new tools. And I think the biggest challenge will be figuring out which ones should we be learning about because,

实际上，我们根本做不到

actually, we just can't

学得更多。而且

learn more. And

节奏会越来越快，我们必须跟上步伐。这就是现状。如果您想给我们的嘉宾乔纳森·马斯特留言，我们在节目备注中提供了他的联系方式。《故事与策略》是Kurzan公关公司、JGR传播机构与故事与策略播客联合制作的节目。喜欢本期内容的话，请给我们评分，最好能留下评论。

faster and faster and faster, and we better be able to keep pace. That's what's happening. If you'd like to send a message to our guest, Jonathan Mast, we've got his contact information in the show notes. Stories and strategies is a coproduction of Kurzan public relations, JGR communications, and stories and strategies podcast. If you like this episode, please leave a rating, possibly a review.

一如既往感谢金牌制作人艾米丽·佩奇和大卫·奥利吉提。最后帮我们个忙——把本期节目转发给一位朋友。感谢收听。

Thank you as always to gold star producers, Emily Page and David Oligiti. And lastly, do us a favor. Forward this episode to one friend. Thanks for listening.