微音程、极简主义与比博普音阶

大多数萨克斯管演奏者也会吹奏长笛和单簧管，这被称为‘双重演奏’。多数乐谱编写者会默认萨克斯手能兼顾长笛与单簧管，并在乐段中直接插入转换指示。但他们常忽略切换乐器所需的时间——比如从萨克斯换到长笛，这可能导致后台调度难题和舞台上趣味横生的‘乐器芭蕾’。欢迎收听《强音》播客，一档关于音乐的节目。我是主持人柯克·汉密尔顿。

Most saxophone players also know how to play flute and clarinet. This is what's known as doubling, and most score writers will just assume that the saxophone player can also play flute and clarinet, and they'll write in transitions to those instruments in the middle of parts. One thing they don't always take into account is how long it takes to switch from, say, a saxophone to a flute, which can lead to some logistical challenges and some interesting choreography on the bandstand. Welcome to Strong Songs, a podcast about music. I'm your host, Kirk Hamilton.

一如既往，很高兴你们能加入这场关于音乐的对话——这里有萨克斯手吹长笛的段落，长笛手吹短笛的瞬间，甚至偶尔会出现只演奏低音单簧管的乐手（你只能接受这个设定）。本期问答环节我们准备了许多听众问题，我已经迫不及待要开始了。找个舒服的位置坐下，调高音量，享受节目吧。那些乐器切换可不是闹着玩的——我在许多乐队演奏萨克斯时，常需要急速切换到长笛（偶尔是单簧管）。

And as always, I'm so glad that you've joined me to talk about music where the saxophone players play flute, music where the flute players play piccolo, and sometimes music where there's just a bass clarinet player and that's the only instrument they play, so you better deal with it. We've got a bunch of your questions to answer on this q and a episode, and I'm excited to get into it. So find a comfortable place to sit, turn up the volume, and enjoy the show. That choreography is no joke. I've played saxophone in a lot of different bands where I needed to switch to usually flute, but sometimes clarinet very quickly.

你必须在乐谱上做好标记：‘注意！这里要快速切换’。比如长笛声部明明写在第八小节，但你得提前八小节标注，否则根本来不及取出长笛。等到正式进入长笛段落时，你若没准备好，音乐就会从你指尖溜走。

And you'd have to kinda write into your part. Okay. This is gonna be a fast change. You know, you'd write two flute, but you'd have to write it eight bars earlier than the flute part was notated in the music because otherwise, you wouldn't remember to start getting your flute out really quickly. And then when the flute part started, you wouldn't have your flute ready and the music would kinda start passing you by.

这种急切换可以用‘v.s.’标注（意为volte sabito）。对我而言它永远代表‘超快速’——其实我至今不知道原意，只要在乐谱看到‘翻页v.s.’就明白：你必须闪电般完成动作，因为下一页可能只给你半小节的喘息时间。

You can notate this kind of thing with a v s, which stands for volte sabito. And to me, it always just meant very speedy. I actually never knew what it meant. I would just see it in parts, you know, turn page v s, and it just means very speedy. You're gonna have to do it fast because there's only like, you know, half of a bar of rest on the next page.

所以你必须飞速翻页，我也会用同样方式标注切换长笛的段落：‘转长笛v.v.v.v.s.’。欢迎回到节目，非常感谢你们的收听与分享。

So you gotta turn the page very quickly, and I would definitely write that as well, for a transition to flute. To flute, v v v v s. Welcome back to the show. I'm so glad that you're here. Thanks for listening, and thanks for spreading the word.

总能看到听众向朋友推荐节目，这太棒了。《强音》完全由听众支持运作，你们的赞助让节目得以延续。想了解支持方式请访问patreon.com/strongsongs，衷心感谢所有赞助人。另外剧透一下：我们即将推出《强音》周边商品。

As always, I continue to see people telling their friends about the show, and that is really cool. Strong Songs is a totally listener supported show, which means that all of you make it possible for me to keep doing this. If you wanna know more about how to support me making the show, go to patreon.com/strongsongs, and thank you so much to all of my patrons. Also, just a little teaser. We are on the precipice of finally having some Strong Songs merchandise.

周边商店正在最后筹备中，很快会上线。我对部分样品非常满意——现在家里堆满周边，有些设计真心酷炫，希望大家喜欢。

I'm finalizing the Strong Songs store, and it'll be up pretty soon. I'm very happy with some of the merchandise. I have samples of all of the stuff. My house is sort of covered in Strongsong's merch, and some of it is really cool. So I hope people like it.

我确实很兴奋，详情即将公布。好了，现在是听众来信环节，我手头有超多精彩问题。

I am certainly excited, and I'll have more on that very soon. Alright. This is a mailbag episode. I'm excited to get into it. I have so many great questions from you.

感谢所有提问者。想参与未来问答环节，请发邮件至listeners@StrongSongsPodcast.com，也可在Twitter@KirkHamilton或Instagram@Kirk_Hamilton找到我。首批问题聚焦电视剧主题曲——上期HBO特辑反响热烈。

Thanks to everybody who sent in questions. If you would like to send me a question for a future q and a, send email to listeners at Strong Songs Podcast dot com, and you can also find me on Twitter at Kirk, k I r k Hamilton, and on Instagram at Kirk underscore Hamilton. Our first parcel of questions here is related to different TV themes. We just talked about a bunch of TV themes from, HBO shows on the most recent episode. Heard from a lot of people who like that episode.

那期制作过程很有趣，但积压了许多其他剧集主题曲的提问。现在开始回答：扎克问‘《公园与游憩》主题曲11秒处，铜管进入后突然降调是怎么回事？’

That was a fun one to make. But I have a bunch of questions from over the months about various other TV theme songs, music from TV shows, so I wanted to answer all of those. Let's start with Zach. Zach writes, what's happening in the parks and recreation theme at about eleven seconds right after the horns come in. It shifts down.

我几乎可以确定这不是转调，但听起来却很像。到底是怎么回事？让我们先听听看。首先，我超爱这段主题音乐。这是由Gabby Moreno和Vincent Jones创作的。

I'm pretty sure it's not a key change, but it almost feels like it is. What is going on? Well, let's listen. First of all, I love this theme music. This was written by Gabby Moreno and Vincent Jones.

这似乎是个比赛的结果。他们举办了一个面向作曲家的主题曲征集比赛，两人提交了这段旋律，最终被选为剧集主题曲。我太喜欢了，这实际上是我最爱的电视主题曲之一，每次都会跟着哼唱。

It was kind of a contest, apparently. They did a contest to find theme music among songwriters, and they submitted this music, and it got turned into the show's theme music. I love it so much. It's actually one of my favorite TV theme songs. I always sing along with it.

我最爱唱'贾巴的宫殿，贾巴的宫殿，赫特人贾巴'那段改编版。我们曾养过一只已故的法国斗牛犬纽吉特，总爱叫它巴格斯，每当它进屋时我们就唱'巴格斯狗狗，巴格斯狗狗'。它是个脾气暴躁的小家伙，这段欢快的音乐和它的性格反差极大，反而显得特别完美。回到扎克的问题——第11秒那里发生了什么？这首歌是C大调的，基本在和弦C、F、G（一级、四级、五级）之间切换，这些都是很常见的和弦。

I like the version that goes job of the hut, job of the hut, Jabba the Hutt. And we had a dog, a our our dearly departed French bulldog, Nugget, who we always called Buggles, and we would sing, Buggles the dog, Buggles the dog, Buggles the dog, Buggles the dog whenever he came into the room. He was a very much of a grumpy French bulldog, so the music didn't really match him, and that was kind of what made it so perfect. So to Zach's question, what's going on there at eleven seconds? Well, this song is in c, and basically what it's doing is it's moving between c and f and g, the one, the four, and the five, which are very common chords.

律动感非常棒，我尤其喜欢单簧管部分。那种精准的吐音，混合着双簧管、小号联奏和大键琴的音色，但真正出彩的是这段酷炫的旋律编排。开头大部分时间只是C-F-C-G的循环，然后转向关系小调A小调——扎克，我想你问的和弦进行应该就是这里。所以严格来说不算转调。

It's got this really nice pulse to it, and I love that clarinet part. It's this very, like, strictly articulated, some sort of double reed in there, trumpet joints, harpsichord, but it's a really cool melody, and I like how it works. But for the most part at the beginning, just c to f to c to g. Then they go to the relative minor, which is a minor, and that's I think that's the chord progression that you're asking about Zach. So it's not really a key changer.

当然你要这么称呼也行，不过有点抠字眼了。他们只是短暂进入了A小调，这部分完全建立在A小调上——它正是C大调的关系小调。通过E大三和弦或E属七和弦（A小调的属和弦）自然过渡到这里。

I mean, you can call it that. I don't know. It's a little bit semantic, but they're just going into a minor for a little while. This part of the song is just in a minor, which is the relative minor to c major. They get to a minor by going to an e major or an e dominant, which is the five of that a minor and leads into it.

这里还出现了升G音，这个音至关重要。不带旋律的和弦进行是：C、F、C、G；C、F、C、E；A小调、F、C、G——这就是《公园与游憩》主题曲第一部分的全部和弦。单看和弦进行并不算复杂。

It also has a g sharp, and that's a really important note. So that chord progression with no melody, it goes c, f, c, g. C, f, c, e, a minor, f, c, g. And those are the chords of the first part of the Parks and Recreation theme. Now that's not a wild chord progression on its own.

很多歌曲都会这样做：从一级到三级属七再到六级小调，这是转入关系小调的标准套路。但这个版本如此鲜活、让人感觉音乐真正发生了转场的关键在于旋律。主旋律原本只是大调音阶的前四个音Do-Re-Mi-Fa，而当它转向小调时，旋律的巧妙变化才真正显现。

A lot of songs do that. They go from one to a three dominant seven to a six minor, which like a really standard transition to get you to that relative minor. What makes this version so lively and what makes it feel like the song has really moved somewhere else is actually the melody. So the main part of this melody is just do, re, mi, and fa, the first four four notes of the major scale. But then, when it goes to minor, there's some nice movement.

我认为正是旋律赋予了戏剧性效果。升G音这个导音——E和弦的大三度音，作为C大调音阶外的唯一变化音，在旋律中被强烈突出。不仅因为它游离于C大调之外，更因旋律在此处做出了与前文平稳进行形成对比的大跳音程。前几个乐句始终在C-D-E之间徘徊，像沿着C大调音阶的阶梯平稳下行。

So the melody is what makes it sound so dramatic, I think anyways. And it's really that there's a g sharp in the melody. That leading tone, the major third and e, which is the one note that's outside of the c major scale, it's really emphasized in the melody because it's not only, you know, outside of the key of c major, it's also where the melody makes a big intervolic jump compared to what it's been doing. So the first phrases are very constrained between c d and e. They're just kind of moving around really nice to straight down a c major scale in this kind of like staircase shape.

这种重复足够让耳朵形成惯性——'吧-吧-吧'的固定节奏型：下行两度再回升一度。第一乐句保持这个形态逐步下行，通过精准的重复让听众产生预期。当第二乐句以相同方式开头却突然大跳时，这个跳进正好落在升G音——E大三和弦的三音上。

So it goes on just long enough for your ear to get used to just hearing that ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. You go down two and then back up one. So the first phrase just takes that shape and then just moves it steadily down while keeping the shape the exact same the whole way through the phrase. It's just enough repetition to get your ear used to it and to make you start to expect that you're gonna hear that motion when they do the second phrase, which starts the same way, but then has a big jump. That jump actually goes down to a g sharp, which is the third in e major.

这个导音强烈导向A小调，最终乐句也解决到A小调。就像用A音上下环绕（升G-A-B-A）最后落位A小调。不仅和声在移动，旋律也强力推动着这种转变，瞬间打破平衡——而后续音乐再未恢复初始的稳定感。开头营造的静态氛围很快被打破，和声开始快速流动：经过酷炫的G混合利底亚上行音阶后，整个乐队下行回归C大调，尾声部分又带着华丽的弦乐声部重新遍历所有和弦。

It's the leading tone that really is driving toward that a minor, and then the end of the phrase resolves to a minor. It's like an enclosure around a, g sharp, a, b, a, and it ends on a minor. So not only are the chords moving to a new place, the melody is really strongly driving to that new place as well, and it totally it kind of knocks you off balance, which then the rest of the song doesn't regain that balance ever. Like, it starts in this very kind of static place, but then immediately kicks into overdrive and starts moving through harmony much more quickly. It goes through this cool g mixolydian ascending scale, then the whole ensemble walks down back to c major, then the ending section just moves back through all those chords with these lovely string parts.

这真的很酷。它将大量内容浓缩在短时间内。如此整洁，写得这么好。我真的很喜欢那首主题音乐。好的。

It's really cool. It compacts a lot of stuff into a short amount of time. So tidy, so well written. I really love that theme music. Alright.

我们的下一个问题来自尼克，他写道：我的问题是关于Bear McCrory为《黑帆》创作的精彩主题曲。那首曲子里一开始贯穿始终的乐器是什么？听起来像弦乐器，但又不像常见的大提琴、小提琴或其他弦乐器。那是采样效果吗？让我们先听听Bear McCreery为《黑帆》创作的主题曲，听听看是什么。

Our next question comes from Nick who writes, my question is about Bear McCrory's wonderful Black Sails theme song. What is that instrument that starts out the track and continues on through the song? It sounds like a string instrument, but it doesn't sound like a cello violin or other strings instruments that one usually hears. Is that a sampled effect? Well, let's listen to Bear McCreery's theme song from Black Sails and see what we hear.

那么，那是什么乐器呢？我知道Bear McCreery喜欢的一种乐器。这是一种不寻常的乐器，叫做手摇风琴。不。

Well, what instrument is that? It's one that I know that Bear McCreery likes. It is an unusual instrument. It's called the hurdy gurdy. No.

我其实没看过这部剧。不过主题音乐真的很酷，而且我喜欢Bear McCrory的作品。Bear当然最出名的是为《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》翻拍版作曲。那部剧的音乐非常非常酷。

I don't actually watch this show. It's really cool theme music, though, and I love Bear McCrory's work. Bear, of course, is best known as the composer for the Battlestar Galactica remake. Really, really cool. Really cool music on that show.

他很擅长挑选像手摇风琴这样的乐器。《太空堡垒》里也有很多不寻常的乐器。而且他善于突出独奏者。他的妻子Raya Yarborough是一位出色的歌手，她曾献声。

And he's very good at picking instruments like this one, like the hurdy gurdy. There were a lot of unusual instruments in Battlestar as well. And he's good at showcasing soloists. His wife, Raya Yarborough, is a wonderful vocalist. She sang.

她就像是《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》的声音代言人。他非常聪明地挑选个别音乐家在他的原声中突出表现，这让音乐听起来与众不同。手摇风琴是我没有任何专业知识的乐器，我从未演奏过。它看起来有点像蒸汽朋克风格的大提琴。

She was like the voice of Battlestar Galactica. He's very smart about picking individual musicians to highlight in his soundtracks, and it makes them sound distinct. The hurdy gurdy is not an instrument I have any expertise with. I've never played one. It looks a little bit like a steampunk cello.

这是一种弦乐器，你转动曲柄，一个轮子摩擦琴弦，产生这种不均匀的哀鸣声，有点像弓弦乐器，但更奇怪。这是一种音色奇特的乐器，绝对是独特的质感，在这部原声中很突出。选择它真的很聪明，因为他本可以用大提琴、小号、钢琴或其他听起来很熟悉的乐器。但相反，你立刻被吸引，心想这到底是什么？然后你写信给音乐播客，问他们这是什么，他们解释手摇风琴是什么。

It's a stringed instrument where you turn this crank and a wheel rubs up against the strings, which creates this uneven keening sound that's a little bit like a bowed string instrument, but much weirder. It's a strange sounding instrument, definitely a distinct texture, and it stands out on this soundtrack. It's really smart choice to feature it just because it could he could use a cello or a trumpet or a piano or whatever, some very familiar sounding instrument. But instead, you're immediately drawn in thinking, what in the world is that? And then you write into a music podcast, and you ask them what it is, and they explain what the hurdy gurdy is.

整个过程比你只是听到小号然后想‘嗯，这小号音色不错’要有趣得多。Luke写道：我在看新版电视剧《吸血鬼生活》。电影很棒，目前剧集也不错，主题曲的节奏感绝对是顶级水平。说真的，我尝试过很多次数拍子，但完全被难倒了。然而它听起来很棒，节奏上感觉合理，即使我无法理解。

And the whole thing is just a much more rich interaction than if you just heard a trumpet and thought, well, that's a nice sounding trumpet. Luke writes, I was watching the new TV remake of What We Do in the Shadows. Great movie, pretty good show so far, and the theme song is rhythmically just absolutely next level. Seriously, I have tried counting this thing out so many times and I am stumped. Yet it sounds awesome and feels like it makes sense rhythmically even if I can't wrap my brain around it.

我很想听听你的看法。Luke，首先我的看法是《吸血鬼生活》电视剧太棒了。如果你看完了整部剧，可能也会有同感。它会慢慢吸引你，不知不觉中让你爱上。我几个月前看了整部剧，非常喜欢。

I would love to hear your take. Well, Luke, first, my take is the What We Do In The Shadows TV show is amazing. I'm guessing you maybe feel that way too if you've watched the whole thing. It kinda grows on you, sneaks up on you over time. I watched that entire thing a couple of months ago and just really loved it.

Jackie Daytona可能是我今年最喜欢的电视剧角色，我也喜欢这部剧的主题音乐。这是民谣歌手Norma Tanaga的作品，来自她1966年的专辑《Walk in My Cat Named Dog》。实际上过去几个月我经常听这张专辑，真的很酷。

Jackie Daytona, probably my favorite TV character of the year, and I love the theme music for this show. This is by the folk singer Norma Tanaga. It's from her 1966 album Walk in My Cat Named Dog. I've actually been listening to this album a lot over the past few months. It's really cool.

她真的很酷，这首歌也超酷。而且，里面的节拍计算相当狂野。那种狂野感很微妙——虽然有个稳定的背景节奏，但计数方式和乐句结构有点不寻常，会让人措手不及。其实我挺喜欢这种古怪的节拍，虽然严格来说不算奇数拍。

She's really cool, and this song is really cool. And, yeah, the counting on it is pretty gnarly. It it's gnarly in that way that's kinda subtle because there's a steady backbeat, but the counting and the phrases is kind of unusual, and it throws you off. And I kinda like that kind of odd meter, actually. Like, it's not an odd meter.

它本质上是10拍子，类似6加4的组合。但这种错位感比那些明显用7拍子或到处漏拍的歌曲更含蓄——不会让音乐听起来刻意支离破碎，反而更有浑然天成的感觉，我觉得这特别酷。好了。

It's it's in I mean, it's basically in 10. It's like six and then four. But it it just throws you off in a way that is more subtle than if a song is just really obviously like in seven or, know, they're just dropping beats all over the place and and everything sounds really disjointed in a way that just sounds very on purpose. It's much more organic, and I think that's really cool. Alright.

我们来听听看。刚才说了是6拍加4拍，这次我会跟着数拍子。开始咯。

Let's listen to it. Alright. So I said it's in six and four. I'm gonna count it this time. Here we go.

一二三四五六 +1 234456 123412345612341234561

One, two, three, four, five, six. +1, 234456. 123412345612341234561.

或者用减半速度数成5拍也行

Or you can count it in five at half the speed.

+1 234512345

+1 234512345.

你沉沦了 你沉沦了 你沉沦了 你被世界抛弃了

You're down. You're down. You're down. You're down and out of

如果你在跟着数拍子，可能注意到实际计数比我描述的更复杂。乐句结尾处有些微妙变化——中间会突然插入稳定的4/4拍。如果用半速计数法，最后会数出个小节的三拍子。

this world. Now if you're counting along with me, you may have noticed that the counting is a little bit less straightforward than I'm making it sound. The ends of phrases, it's just a little bit different. There's kind of just some steady four four that comes in. So if you're counting it in half time, you end up having to count a bar of three.

它并非纯粹的5拍或10拍，这种不确定性反而强化了歌曲整体的流动感。超酷的主题音乐，超酷的节拍设计——就像我说的，我超爱这种有稳定底鼓却暗藏微妙节奏变化的律动，比那些前卫爵士的刻意复杂更浑然天成。Tenega的很多作品都有这种特质。

It it's not, totally straight up just in five or in 10, which I think adds to the sort of flowing quality that this song has in general. Really cool theme music, really cool counting, and like I said, I love that kind of groove where there's a steady backbeat and the oddness of the counting is a little bit more subtle than if it was like, you know, like some kind of prog jazz stuff. Like, it it's not that kind of odd counting. It's so much more organic, and it kinda just flows out. And a lot of Tenega's writing is that way.

这张专辑非常棒，推荐大家去听她的音乐。下个问题关于某剧集插曲——其实我上周刚对这首歌上头，因为最近才开始追剧。Addison来信提问时我没标注歌名，结果随手点开文档就跳转到这首...

This record is really cool. I recommend listening to it and checking out her music because she is great. This next question is about a song from a TV show, and this song I actually became obsessed with this song just about a week ago because I've only recently been watching the show. Addison wrote in to ask a question about it, but I put it in my questions document without the name of the song. So then I just sort of clicked on it, and it opened up this song.

这首歌是我上周疯狂循环播放的，因为它实在太惊艳了。它曾在HBO剧集《恶魔之地》第五集中出现，由歌手Moses Sumney创作，名为《Lonely World》。这是一首从某个起点出发却抵达截然不同终点的歌曲，堪称非凡之作。

And it's the song that I've been listening to obsessively over the last week because it's totally amazing. And it's a song that was featured on the HBO show Lovecraft Country in the fifth episode. It's by a singer named Moses Sumney, and it's called Lonely World. This is one of those songs that starts in one place and ends up somewhere very different. It's a really incredible song.

Moses Sumney是位不可思议的歌手，歌曲以简单的电贝斯打底，配上绝美的人声开场。顺带一提，贝斯手是Thundercat，这家伙厉害得不行，值得关注。他在这张专辑里参与了几首曲目，精湛的贝斯演奏为这首歌增色不少。

Moses Sumney is an incredible singer, and it starts out in this fairly simple place with electric bass and just beautiful vocals on top. Side note, that's Thundercat playing bass. That guy is a bad mother and is worth checking out. He played bass on a couple tracks on this record. He is a very good bass player, and his bass playing adds so much to this track.

此外，Animals as Leaders乐队的Tosin Abasi也参与了这首曲子。这张专辑质量上乘，如果还没听过的话你们真该去听听。汇集了一群顶尖音乐人共同打造的好作品。现在来回答Addison的问题。

Also, Tosin Abasi from Animals as Leaders is also on this track. So this is a good album. If any of you haven't listened to this album, should go listen to it. There's a bunch of really good musicians making good music. So on to Addison's question.

Addison留言说：『我搞不清节奏走向，尤其是结尾部分。是三连音、摇摆八分音符，还是在4/4和3/5拍之间切换？太复杂了，想听听你的见解。』其实歌曲开头部分节奏很自由，几乎是无拍状态。

Addison writes, I can't quite tell what the rhythm is doing especially as it gets toward the end. Is it triplets, swung eights, shifting between four four three five? It's a lot, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Well, this first part of the song is pretty loose. It's kind of out of time.

Moses只是随Thundercat的演奏即兴演唱，叠加人声轨道，整体有种流动般的松散感，效果绝佳。但鼓点进入后，其实是稳定的4/4拍——虽然听起来不像。关键要专注那个律动脉搏：1、2、3、4，因为始终是4/4拍。鼓手Ian Chang玩了很多花样，尤其在铺垫段只用踩镲和军鼓制造『嘶嘶』与『啪嗒』声，没有底鼓重拍。

You know, Moses is just singing along with Thundercat and overdubbing vocal parts, and it just it has a very a sort of a loose liquid flow to it, and it works beautifully. But then the beat comes in, and things actually are pretty steadily in four four, though I could understand why it might not sound like it's in four four time. So the key is to just really focus on that pulse, that one, two, three, four, because it's steadily in four Even though there's so much going on, that's Ian Chang on the drums. He's really mixing it up, and it's especially during that setup section where he's just playing the hi hat and the snare. That's the sizzle and the pop, but there's no thump.

底鼓还没真正进来时，军鼓会在各种非常规位置敲击，这时你必须在脑中保持1、2、3、4的基本脉冲。虽然他演奏符合节拍，但并非规律性的——不是简单的反拍模式，所以不能依赖军鼓来定位。

The kick drum hasn't really come in, and so he's playing the snare drum in all sorts of different places, and you kinda just gotta keep the pulse going in your head. One, two, three, four, like that despite what he's playing. Because he's playing in time, he's just not playing steadily in time. Like, he's not just doing a backbeat or something. So you can't rely on the snare drum to orient yourself.

好，我们来具体分析。我会在整个段落持续数4/4拍，当底鼓彻底加入时，你就能明显感受到4/4拍的框架了。之后这个节拍会一直持续到曲终，你很容易就能抓住。

Alright. Let's get into it, and I'm just gonna count in four four throughout that entire section. And then when the drums fully come in, like when that thump comes in on the bottom, you'll be pretty oriented into that four four time. And by then, it just stays there, you know, through to the end of the song, and you can kinda just get that in your head. Alright.

开始吧。

Here we go.

一二三四 一二三四 一二三

One two three four. One two three four. One two three

这首歌极其酷炫，但密集的人声叠录可能会让人迷失。有各种交错拍型的叠奏，或至少是在4拍基础上暗示的其他拍型。后面还有段超酷的过渡，鼓和贝斯直接飞跃小节线进入新段落，效果炸裂，你们一定要听。

It's an extremely cool song, and it can be kind of disorienting because there's so much vocal layering going on. There are these kind of hemiola patterns repeating in different kind of overlaid time signatures, or at least implied time signatures overlaid over that four. There's a really cool thing later where the drums and the bass go just flying over the bar line in this transition into a new section. That sounds super cool. Check it out.

整首歌尽管建立在四四拍的基础上，却异常丰富且酷炫，绝不简单。所以感谢Addison给我机会聊这首歌。大家快去听听Moses Sumney的作品，他真的很棒。

And the whole thing is just is just really rich and cool even though it is layered over that four four time. It's anything but simple. So thanks, Addison, for giving me an excuse to talk about this song. Everybody, go check Moses Summey out. He's really good.

最后一个电视相关问题来自Kelly，她写道：我知道你的《强歌》播客在展示男女艺术家方面相当平衡，但随着HBO主题音乐集的推进，我一直希望能至少出现一位女性作曲家，可惜没有。HBO电视领域为何全是男性作曲家？电视行业有女性作曲家吗？这是HBO特有的现象还是整个电视网的普遍情况？我很想知道行业内是否有女性从业者。

Our last TV question comes from Kelly who writes, I know that your Strong Songs podcast is quite balanced in showcasing both male and female artists, but as the HBO theme music episode was progressing, I kept hoping that there would be at least one female composer, but alas, none appeared. What is with all the male composers in the HBO television landscape? Are there any female composers working in the TV industry? Is it just that HBO has this dearth of women, or is it a common thread throughout all of the television networks? I would love to know if there are any women working in the industry.

如果没有，你认为原因是什么？首先，制作HBO专题时我确实全程意识到这个问题。我尽量在节目中保持性别平衡，但这很有挑战性，因为音乐行业长期由男性主导。虽然有许多优秀男性音乐人值得讨论，但当然，我也有很多喜爱的女性音乐人，节目中已介绍过不少，未来还会继续推荐。

And if not, why do you suppose that is? So for starters, this was definitely something that I was aware of the whole time I was making that HBO episode. I do try to keep some kind of a gender balance on this show, which has its own challenges because the music industry has long been very male dominated. There are a lot of men who have made a lot of very good music that I wanna talk about on this show, but, of course, many of my favorite musicians are women. I've talked about a lot of them on this show already, and we'll talk about a lot of them in the future.

我确实努力保持平衡。但在制作HBO专题时，不得不面对一个事实：我看过的所有HBO剧集配乐都由男性创作。实际上，几乎所有我看过的电视剧配乐都是男性创作的。这里不单指主题曲——确实有不少主题曲由女性创作或演唱。

And I do try to keep things balanced. And as I was making that HBO episode, I just I kept running up against the fact that every composer working on every show on HBO that I watch is a man. And, actually, almost every composer on every TV show I've ever watched has been a man. Now I'm not just talking about theme music here. There's actually there's plenty of theme music written by women, performed by women.

甚至刚才举的几个例子中就有女性参与创作或联合创作。我指的是电视剧配乐领域。在专业配乐界，无论是电视、电影还是游戏，都存在严重性别失衡，这反映了专业音频行业整体的性别比例失调——工程师、制作人、作曲家等岗位几乎都被男性主导。比如Gabby Moreno和Norma Tenega就分别为《公园与游憩》《吸血鬼生活》创作过主题曲。

Even a couple of the examples that I just cited were written or co written by women. I'm talking about scoring TV shows. And in the world of professional scoring, be it TV, movie, or video games, there's this massive gender imbalance that reflects a similar gender imbalance in the broader world of professional audio, just engineers, producers, composers. Pretty much all of those fields are extremely male dominated. So, of course, Gabby Moreno and Norma Tenega, two examples of women who wrote theme music for TV shows, Parks and Recreation and What We Do in the Shadows.

Rachel Bloom是杰出典范，她为《疯狂前女友》创作了全部歌曲，这部剧太棒了。我最爱的音乐人之一Michelle Indigiacciolo为《蔗糖女王》配乐，剧集和音乐都很出色。

Rachel Bloom is a great example of an incredible musician who wrote all of the songs from her show Crazy Ex Girlfriend. That's an awesome show. One of my favorite musicians ever, Michelle Indigiacciolo, composed music for Queen Sugar. Great show. Great music.

虽然存在例外，但女性更多活跃在主题曲创作领域，而非像《忘掉莎拉·马歇尔》中Jason Segal那样担任驻场作曲家，负责剧集场景配乐中的过渡音效。Refinery29有篇相关文章我会放在节目备注里，他们统计2017-2018季黄金档与有线台剧集，发现约6%的节目（黄金档117部中7部，有线台201部中11部）配乐署名包含女性。根据好莱坞女性研究数据，电影界更糟——2017年仅3%的电影配乐由女性完成。

So there are exceptions out there, though it tends to be more in the sort of songwriting theme song realm than in the just, like, in house composer Jason Segal in Forgetting Sarah Marshall, person who's writing the stingers and the swells that play behind scenes on the actual TV show. There's a good Refinery twenty nine article on this that I will link to in the show notes. They looked at both primetime and cable TV shows from the twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen season and found kind of around 6% of shows. That's seven out of a 117 on primetime, and 11 out of 201 on cable gave composer credits to women. Per a women in Hollywood study, in Hollywood, it's even worse.

这种巨大差异值得关注，因为它无处不在却又容易被忽视。虽然有很多优秀的男性电视配乐师，但女性几乎缺席。当某种失衡如此严重时，变革就显得必要。至于原因，我认为与其他男性主导行业类似：薪酬不平等、雇佣不公、职场母亲缺乏支持等。

3% of films from 2017 had scores composed by women. So there is a major disparity there, and it's something to be aware of because it's just so pervasive, and I think it's easy to just not think about it. There are so many great male composers making awesome music for TV shows, but there just aren't any women. And anytime something is that imbalanced, it does seem like something's gotta give or something should change. As for why that is, I think it's a lot of the same reasons that a lot of professions are male pay inequality, unfair hiring practices, lack of support for working mothers, that sort of thing.

当一个行业被男性主导后，就会陷入循环——男性掌握现有资源，因此获得更多未来机会。制片人倾向合作熟悉的作曲家，而统计上这些作曲家大概率是男性。改变这种状况需要人们主动冒险启用新锐、发掘新声，但这类举措远未普及。建议大家多阅读相关资料，支持女性作曲家——确实有许多才华横溢的女性在创作惊艳作品。

And then once an industry is male dominated, there's this sort of almost tautological thing where men have all the work, therefore, men get all the future work. A showrunner will probably work with a composer that they're familiar with, and the composers they're familiar with are just by the numbers, probably men, so the men will get the future work from the showrunners. So, you know, changing this kind of thing requires people to actually take a chance and hire new talent and and find new voices and kind of raise them up, and that kind of thing is less common than it should be. So, yeah, do some reading. Learn about this, and, support female composers when you can because there's a lot of really great women making really amazing music out there.

如果有更多影视作品采用女性配乐师就太酷了。Jordan提问：King Gizzard和Lizard Wizard在专辑《飞行微音香蕉》中使用微分音乐器，我想知道标准乐器与微分音乐器的区别。好的，关于微分音...

And it would be cool if more TV shows and more movies had more women composing music for them. Jordan writes, in their album flying microtonal banana, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard use microtonal instruments. I was wondering what the differences are between standard and microtonal instruments. Okay. Well, microtones.

我们来聊聊微分音吧。其实首先，得说说乐队名King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard，我试了好几次才念对。终于成功了，但这乐队名确实拗口，我超爱这支乐队。之前没听过他们的歌，这张专辑真的很酷，里面还玩了些微分音的东西。

Let's talk about microtones. Actually, first, let's talk about the band name King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard because I had to give that several takes to get that right without saying it wrong. So I finally did it, but that is quite a mouthful of a band name, and I really dig this band. I hadn't listened to them before, but this is a pretty cool album. And there is some microtonal stuff going on on.

好吧，微分音，现在算是个热门词。微分音音乐之所以流行，是因为听起来既酷又新潮。虽然它根本不新——我是说确实很酷，但并不新鲜。没错，这玩意儿存在很久了。

So, okay, microtones, a little bit of a buzzword right now. Microtonal music is kind of buzzy because it sounds cool and new. Even though it's not cool and new at all, it's I mean, it's cool, but it's not new. Yeah. It's been around for a really long time.

微分音就是比半音更小的音程，小于半音阶。本质上是将音符音高微调几音分，而不完全升或降半音。比如你弹的是升C音，而非真正的C#（比原音高完整半音）。就像这个C大调的简短旋律片段——

A microtone is just something a smaller interval than a semitone. So it's smaller than a half step. It basically means manipulating the pitch of the note to be just a few cents sharp or a few cents flat without fully going a half step sharp or flat. So you're playing a sharp c instead of playing an actual c sharp, which is a full semitone above. Like, here's a little melodic figure in c major.

这是同样旋律升高半音，变成C#大调。而我现在用合成器的音高轮，弹个介于两者之间的音，这就是微分音旋律。这一切其实植根于西方那套欧洲12平均律，但并非所有文化都采用这种音阶体系。

Here's the same melodic figure up a semitone, so that's in c sharp major. And here it is. I'm just using the pitch wheel on the synthesizer, and this is kinda somewhere in between. So this is a microtonal melody. Now this whole thing is kind of rooted in the Western, you know, the European 12 tone chromatic scale, which is not used by every culture in the world.

它并非默认的音乐感知方式，只是某些人对声谱的划分。流行音乐创作者大多遵循12平均律，而微分音音乐跳脱了这个框架，听起来很酷很新鲜，带着怪异感，会出乎你的意料——如果你听这张King Gizzard专辑就会不断遇到这种情况。每首歌似乎都有调性，但音符总落在你意想不到的位置。

Like, it's not the default way of hearing music or anything. It's just a way that some people divided up the sonic spectrum, and then a lot of people in popular music, people making popular music kind of adhere to that 12 tone scale. So making microtonal music steps outside of it and can sound pretty cool. It can sound fresh and kind of odd and sort of surprise your ear, which is something that will constantly happen to you if you listen to this King Gizzard album. I mean, every song is kind of in a key, but then, you know, the notes will just not quite land where you expect them.

我猜他们用微分音调律了乐器，跳出了标准12音律的范畴。不过我没深入研究这张专辑，对微分音的听觉也不够敏锐，无法完全解析他们的手法，说不清是全员协调还是略带混乱。整张专辑本就充满混沌感，那种失真、厚重、粗粝又带点生猛的音色。

I believe that they tuned their instruments in microtones. So they're going outside of standard 12 tone, you know, tuning, and they're doing something different. I don't actually I haven't studied the album enough, and I don't have a good enough ear for microtonal stuff to really totally break down what they're doing and to tell you whether they're actually all doing it together or whether it's a little bit chaotic. I mean, the whole album is kind of chaotic because that's just the sound. It's very distorted and thick and kind of juicy and raw.

虽然很棒，但我分辨不出是否全程严格运用微分音——不过这可能也不是他们追求的效果。重点在于制造出人意料的听觉不适感。突然想到另一个例子，最近在听Fleet Foxes的新专辑。

It's it's nice, but it's it's I can't tell whether it's like a really consistently applied microtonal approach, but that's also kinda not the sound they're going for. That's not the point. The point is that it's supposed to sound kind of unexpected and uncomfortable in places. Know, another example that actually comes to mind is an album I've recently been listening to. It's the new Fleet Foxes album.

专辑叫《Shore》，非常出色，录音精美，人声惊艳，创作绝妙。其中有首歌叫《Can I Believe You》，中间的和声部分突然做了个我称之为微分音的处理——

It's called Shore. It's a fantastic album, beautifully recorded, beautiful sounding, incredible singing, incredible songwriting. And there's this tune. It's called can I believe you? And in the middle of it, their vocal harmonies, they're all singing together, and then they do something I would call microtonal.

乐器和人声以某种方式分离，营造出诡异的声响。我第一次听时直接惊呼'这是什么鬼'，但超酷！这就是他们要的效果，堪称微分音和声的绝妙运用。去听听看吧。

The instruments and the voices just pull apart in a way that just creates this very uncanny sound that the the first time I heard it, was just like, woah, what is that? And it's really cool. I mean, that's the intended effect, and that I would say is a really nice application of microtonal harmony. Check it out. Alright.

准备好了吗？稍微侧耳倾听。现代对微分音的接纳，本质上是跳出12平均律的框架，我觉得太棒了。听到这么多当代艺术家突破这个框架真的很酷，因为音乐本就不该被框架束缚。

Here we go. Just kinda tilt your ear on its side. Right? The modern embrace of microtonal sounds, it just kind of is moving outside of the 12 tone scale, which I think is really great. I think it's really cool to hear so many current artists going outside of that framework because music doesn't adhere to that framework.

物理学定律并未规定必须将每个八度音阶划分为12个音符。因此许多艺术家能借此创造出令人惊喜的美妙声音。我还能举出许多其他例子，比如最近在节目中提到的雅各布·科利尔。他改编的《月亮河》就运用了大量微分音技巧。

There's no law of physics that says you need to divide every octave into 12 notes. And so many artists are able to make these kind of surprising and beautiful sounds doing that. There are plenty of other examples I could cite. Jacob Collier, actually, who I've talked about, recently on the show. His arrangement of Moon River has a lot of microtonal stuff.

他拥有绝对音感，听力简直不可思议。他会用自己的人声编织出音高不断游移变化的声纹——虽然这些变化确实遵循传统和声法则。毕竟《月亮河》本身是首和弦相当标准的歌曲，但他处理和弦过渡与构建和声的方式完全突破了12平均律的限制。凭借超凡的听觉天赋，他持续不断地拓展着音乐边界。

He has perfect pitch and can just his ears are unbelievable. And he'll create these vocal tapestries of his own voice where the pitches are just shifting and moving around in ways that, yeah, they're defined by the traditional harmony. I mean, it's Moon River. It's a song with pretty standard chords, but the way that he moves between chords and some of the harmonies that he builds aren't restricted to just a 12 tone chromatic scale. He's going way beyond that because he has the ear to do it, and he does it really consistently too.

这实在太不可思议了。天哪！雅各布刚做客过专注声音艺术的播客《20,000赫兹》，讨论绝对音感时还播放了那段改编作品。所以给那些来信说'你听说过雅各布·科利尔吗？'的听众们——

It's it's pretty incredible. Good lord. Jacob was just on the wonderful sound focused podcast, 20,000 Hertz, talking about perfect pitch, and, they featured some of that arrangement. So to everyone who wrote in to me saying, wow. Have you heard of this Jacob Collier guy?

你们建议我分析他《月亮河》改编版的和声结构。承蒙高看，但这确实超出我的能力范围了。不过微分音乐确实非常酷炫，能玩出许多精妙花样。

You should do a harmonic analysis of his arrangement of Moon River. I'm flattered that you think I could do a harmonic analysis of that, but, that's it's a little beyond me. But, really cool stuff. Microtonal music in general, very cool. There's a lot of neat stuff you can do with it.

这远非简单的走音演奏——尽管刻薄者可能说某些人只是在随机走音。微分音是能为音乐增添风味的独特元素，更能缔造绝美声响。塞布来信提到：'想请教雷关于平克·弗洛伊德《Money》的问题，不过不是关于那个古怪拍号'。问得好塞布，因为我记得在节目首期问答环节就解答过这首歌的拍号问题。总之塞布继续写道...

It's much more than just playing out of tune, even though I'm sure that you could cynically say, well, some of these people are just sort of randomly playing out of tune. There's more to it than that, and I think it's a really neat spice and a neat element that you can add to music, and you can build some beautiful sounds out of it as well. Seb writes, there's something I wanted to ask Ray the song Money by Pink Floyd, not about the quirky time signature. That's good Seb because I think I answered a question about the time signature in that song on, like, the first q and a episode ever of this show or something. Anyhow, sub continues.

那首歌里有一段明显的下行音阶，大约在吉他独奏后的三分三十五秒处，我无法准确定位。音符从一个八度开始，结束于另一个八度，但音阶中有九个音符。所以我猜想最低的两个音符之间可能夹了一个半音。这种音阶有名称吗？九声音阶常见吗？

There's a descending scale that occurs in that song most notably at about three thirty five after the guitar solo that I can't quite place. The notes start and end an octave apart, but there are nine notes in the scale. So I think there's a half step squeezed in between the lowest two notes. Is there a name for this scale? And are nine note scales common?

真有这种音阶吗？嗯，确实存在。九声音阶实际上非常实用。我们先来听听塞布提到的片段。

Is that a thing? Well, yes. That is a thing. Nine note scales are very useful, actually. Let's listen to what Seb is asking about first.

这是平克·弗洛伊德《月之暗面》专辑中的《Money》。现在要听到的就是那个音阶。没错，这是个包含九个音符的音阶，起始和结束都在B音上。相比大调音阶及其所有调式的八个音符，这个音阶多了一个音符。我们在之前的问答节目中讨论过调式。

This is from Pink Floyd's money from the dark side of the moon. And here comes the scale in question. So, yeah, that's a scale with nine notes. It starts on a b and it ends on a b, and there are nine notes in the scale as opposed to the eight notes that are in the major scale and thus all of the modes of the major scale. We've talked about modes on previous q and a episodes.

现在不深入讨论调式。但九声音阶确实很常见，我通常称之为比博普音阶（bebop scale）。这是我从学习时就知道的名称。这种音阶在蓝调和爵士乐中广泛应用，对即兴演奏极其有用。

Not gonna go into them right now. But, yes, nine note scales are actually common. I typically call a nine note scale a bebop scale. That's what I learned, it it being called. This is a type of scale that is used a lot in blues and jazz, and it's a very, very useful thing for improvising.

比博普音阶本质上是在大调、属七或小调音阶基础上增加一个半音经过音，这样在强拍上就能获得更多和弦音——这正是它的设计目的。已故的伟大音乐家大卫·贝克（David Baker）推广了比博普音阶的概念，他是有史以来最重要、最杰出的爵士教育家之一。我与他还有私人交集，高中时就参加过他的课程。

So the bebop scale is basically a major or dominant or minor scale with an extra chromatic passing tone added so that you get more chord tones on downbeats. That's the purpose of it. The concept of the bebop scale was popularized by the late great David Baker, one of the most important and amazing jazz educators ever. I actually have a personal connection with him. I took his course, when I was in high school.

我在印第安纳州布卢明顿长大，他是印第安纳大学爵士乐研究的主任，也是爵士即兴演奏教学体系化进程中最重要的奠基人之一。比博普音阶是他爵士即兴与和声教学法的核心。我青少年时期就常参加他的大师课，高中时便修读他的大学课程。这些知识早已融入我的血液，虽然每个人可能以不同名称学习过它们。比如平克·弗洛伊德乐队的吉他手大卫·吉尔摩就在使用比博普音阶。

I grew up in Bloomington, Indiana, and he was the director of jazz studies at Indiana University and was one of the most important people in terms of sort of formalizing and figuring out how to teach jazz improvisation. The bebop scale was central to his approach to jazz improvisation and jazz harmony, and, you know, I grew up taking master classes with him, taking his IU course when I was a high school student. You know, I I learned this stuff. It's, like, very deep in my DNA, but it's something that everybody learns under one name or another. So David Gilmore, the guitarist for Pink Floyd, is using a bebop scale.

他在b小调上演奏d混合利底亚比博普音阶，这种用法并不典型，稍后会详细分析。先解释基本概念：d混合利底亚音阶就是降七音的d大调音阶，适用于d属七和弦——布鲁斯和爵士中极其常见的和弦。演奏d属七和弦时就应该用这个音阶。

He's playing a d Mixolydian bebop scale over b minor, which isn't a totally typical usage of it, but we'll get to his usage in a second. Let me just explain what it is. So for starters, a d mixolydian scale, that's a d major scale with a flat seven. That's the scale that you would play over a d seven chord, which is a very common chord in blues and jazz, a d dominant chord. You would play this scale.

比博普乐手偏爱八分音符乐句。八分音符在比博普摇摆乐中至关重要，虽然爵士乐也重视八分音符，但比博普乐句基本由八分音符构成。如果用d混合利底亚音阶下行演奏八分音符线条，你会发现强拍落在某些音上，弱拍落在另一些音上，对吧？

Now bebop players tend to play phrases in eighth notes. Eighth notes are very important in bebop swing eighths. Eighth notes are really important in jazz too, but bebop lines tend to be built out of eighth notes. And if you're playing a descending line on a d Mixolydian scale in eighth notes, you get downbeats on half the notes and upbeats on the other half the notes. Right?

这很合理。现在我来演示下行的d混合利底亚音阶，并强调强拍部分。注意听。爵士即兴虽无铁律，但有个实用准则：构建稳健乐句时，八分音符线条的强拍最好安排和弦音，弱拍则可使用经过音或半音环绕音。只要强拍足够扎实，弱拍可以稍作变化。

That makes sense. So here's a descending d Mixolydian scale, and I'm gonna emphasize the downbeats. Here we go. Now there are no hard and fast rules of jazz improvisation, but one good guideline, at least when you're trying to create just a sturdy phrase, is that you wanna have strong tones, chord tones on the downbeats of your eighth note lines, and the upbeats can be more passing tones, chromatic enclosures. You can kinda put a little bit more weird business on the upbeats if your downbeats are super strong.

若用d混合利底亚音阶下行，强拍会落在根音（没问题）、六度音（尚可）、四度音（非常糟糕）和二度音（一般）上。尤其要避免强调四度音——想象节奏组正在演奏d属七和弦（d-#f-a-c），而你作为独奏者持续停留在g音上，这会与节奏组的#f音形成小九度冲突。听听这效果...呃，简直不堪入耳。

So if you play a descending d Mixolydian scale, you actually get downbeats on the one, which is fine, and then on the six, which is okay, and then on the four, which is not good at all, and then on the two, which is fine but not great. In particular, though, you really don't wanna be emphasizing that fourth. Like, if the rhythm section is playing a d seven chord, a d and f sharp and a and a c, and you're just sitting there on a on a g as a soloist, you're creating a flat ninth between your note and that f sharp and the rhythm section, and it's just I mean, listen to this. Ugh. It's a bad sound.

虽然g音确实存在于d布鲁斯音阶中，但在主和弦上长时间停留四度音绝非明智之举。快速经过尚可接受，但让四度音成为八分音符线条的强拍就太糟糕了。更关键的是，这种情况下强弱拍功能完全颠倒——非和弦音落在强拍，而三音、五音、七音这些和弦音反而落在弱拍。

I know the g is in the d blues scale, but if you're on the one chord, you just you don't wanna be sitting there on the fourth. It can be okay if you kinda get off it quickly, but having it be a downbeat in your eighth note line is far from ideal. Moreover, remember, in an eighth note line, you wanna have chord tones as downbeats and nonchord tones as upbeats. And in this case, that's actually flipped. The downbeats are the non chord tones, and the upbeats are the three, the five, and the seventh, the chord tones.

爵士乐手的思维往往非常务实，查理·帕克、巴德·鲍威尔等比博普大师的解决方案很简单：在音阶中插入一个八分音符，将其扩展为九声音阶。这样所有音符的强弱位置都会偏移，强拍自然落在和弦音上。这正是比博普音阶的精髓——以d混合利底亚比博普音阶为例，它同时包含大七度和小七度，顶端形成半音阶进：d-d♭-c-b，其余部分保持常规混合利底亚音阶。

Now if you think like a jazz musician, you're probably thinking very practically, and this is something that Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, all the great bebop musicians did. You just could add an eighth note to that scale, turn it into a nine tone scale, and that would move everything over by an eighth note, which would mean that your downbeats would be chord tones and your upbeats would be non chord tones. And that's exactly what the bebop scale does. Specifically, the d Mixolydian bebop scale, it has a major seventh and a minor seventh, so there's some chromaticism right at the top. You go from d to d flat to c to b, and then you play the rest of the Mixolydian scale normally.

用这个音阶构建乐句轻松得多，因为强拍总能落在和弦音上，使线条更加稳健。现在对比听两个下行乐句：第一个使用普通d混合利底亚音阶，第二个采用d混合利底亚比博普音阶。后者强拍的和弦音支撑让整个乐句立显扎实。这种半音手法在爵士乐中无处不在，比如这段致敬大卫·贝克的经典印第安纳比博普乐句...

It's much easier to build lines out of that scale because you get lots more chord tones on the downbeats, which just gives you sturdier sounding lines. So here is that line on a d seven chord with just a regular d Mixolydian scale descending. And here's the same line with the d Mixolydian bebop scale descending, and it's gonna get those chord tones on the downbeat and give a much sturdier sounding line. That chromaticism is everywhere in jazz music. The sort of Indiana bebop line, which is sort of in honor of David Baker sounds like this.

刚开始学习比博普演奏时，你会立刻发现这个技巧无处不在——它实在太实用了。无数经典乐句、即兴片段、II-V-I套路都建立在这种半音体系上，全都源自比博普音阶。好了，现在回到大卫·吉尔摩和平克·弗洛伊德的《Money》。

You'll hear that just about everywhere the minute you start learning how to play bebop because it's just such a useful tool. It helps you build strong lines, a million famous quotes, million lines that people learn. Two five one licks all are built out of that chromaticism, and it all comes from that bebop scale. Alright. Back to David Gilmore, Pink Floyd, and Money.

如前所述，这个音阶本质是d混合利底亚比博普音阶，但起止于b音。虽然我不认为比博普音阶存在调式概念，但若强行归类，这种带降二的音型可算某种弗里吉亚变体。它从b音开始，基本沿b小调音阶下行，但在最后d音到b音之间插入了#c-c-b的半音过渡。正是这个额外八分音符让吉尔摩和整个乐队能精准落在b和弦的主拍上——这其实是全乐队共同演奏的连复段。

Like I said, that scale is a d Mixolydian bebop scale, but it starts and ends on b. So it's kinda like a mode of a bebop scale, which I don't think of the bebop scales as having modes, though I'm sure you could come up with names for those modes. If you wanted to, this would be some sort of Phrygian thing since it has a flat two. But, this starts on a b, then it walks down what would basically be a b minor scale, but then at the very end between the d and the b, it adds a c sharp, a c, and a b. What that allows Gilmore and the whole band actually to do, this is a a whole band wide riff, is they get that extra eighth note which lets them land on one with that b chord.

所以他们加入那个c音，那个额外的半音，就是为了多一个八分音符，让乐句落在他们想要的位置上，这和三十年前比博普乐手为了让乐句落在特定节拍点所用的手法如出一辙。现在提到比博普音阶，是因为Seb问到了九声音阶，而比博普音阶就是这类音阶的典型代表。你可以称之为从b音开始的d混合利底亚比博普音阶，某种程度上这也像是个行走的低音线。

So they add that c, that extra chromatic note, just to give them an extra eighth note so that it displaces the, the lines that it lands on one, which is the same thing that bebop musicians were doing thirty years earlier to get their lines to land where they wanted them to. Now I'm talking about the bebop scale because Seb asked about nine note scales, and the bebop scale is a good example of one of those. I don't know. You could definitely call this a d Mixolydian bebop scale just starting on b. It's kinda also just a walking baseline.

这与爵士贝斯手的演奏理念高度相通——他们使用经过音就是为了让和弦音落在强拍上。同样的原理，只不过贝斯手是用四分音符在爵士曲目上行走低音线。比博普音阶通常由独奏者用八分音符演奏，而这些低音线则由贝斯手用四分音符完成。两者都运用了添加半音经过音的技巧，确保和弦音落在强拍或小节重音位置，而将非和弦音与经过音放在弱拍或非重音部分。

It has as much in common with what jazz bass players play, the kind of passing tones that they do so that they can also keep chord tones on the downbeat. The same kind of principle. It's just being applied by bass players in quarter notes as they walk bass lines over jazz tunes. So bebop scales are played in eighth notes usually by soloists, while those bass lines are played in quarter notes usually by the bass player. Both are using that same principle of adding a chromatic passing tone so that you can keep chord tones on the downbeats or in the emphasized place of the bar, keep those kind of emphasized, and then keep the non chord tones and the passing tones on the upbeats or in the less emphasized parts of the bar.

这本质上是在乐句行进中插入一个阶梯音，从而精准控制落点，平克·弗洛伊德在这段旋律里也采用了相同手法。当然乐队成员创作时未必在思考爵士和声理论，但这种理念确实源自比博普音阶——那是无数爵士乐手为塑造理想音效而自然形成的实用技巧。这个精妙的小例子生动展现了美国黑人音乐如何以无限方式影响后世：如今你听到的所有音乐，几乎都能追溯到几十年前美国黑人音乐的根源。

So it's a way of just sort of inserting a step into the sequence of the line so that you can land where you want to land, and that's what Pink Floyd is doing on this line as well. Now were the members of the band thinking of jazz harmony when they wrote this part? Probably not. But it's still that's kinda where this comes from and that kind of idea, you know, the bebop scale, it was just something that kind of came out organically from a lot of jazz musicians figuring out practical ways to get their lines to sound the way they wanted their lines to sound. It's a small, specific, and very cool example of the infinite ways that black American music influenced everything, the way that all music sounds, everything that you hear probably has some kind of a root in black American music from decades before it.

比博普音阶确实很酷。正在学习即兴演奏的朋友们可以去研究下，还有大调比博普音阶也很实用——半音位于五级和六级之间，适用于大调和弦，而混合利底亚比博普音阶则用于属七和弦。

Bebop scales are also pretty cool. If any of you out there learning how to improvise, working on soloing, look up bebop scales, start to learn. There's also major bebop scales. Those are also very useful. With a major bebop scale, the half note is in between the fifth and the sixth, so use that over a major chord, and you use Mixolydian bebop over a dominant chord.

掌握这两种音阶就能应对大部分演奏场景。Patrick在讨论Prince的《Kiss》那期提到这首歌的极简主义，这让我想起保罗·麦卡特尼说过创作《I'm Down》这种优秀简单歌曲其实更难；也让我联想到Lorde首张专辑同样简约克制的编曲，在当时流行乐中独树一帜。你认为创作优秀的极简主义单曲或旋律，是否比复杂作品更具挑战性？

Between those two, you can play over a whole lot of stuff. They're they're very helpful. Patrick writes on the episode on Prince's Kiss, you talk about how minimalist the song is, and it reminded me of a quote by Paul McCartney talking about how it's much harder to write a really good simple song like I'm down. Also reminded me of hearing Lorde's first album, which is also fairly sparse and stripped down and was noticeably different from a lot of pop songs at that time. Do you think that it is harder to write a really good simple minimalist song solo or melody versus something more complicated?

如果确实如此，你觉得原因何在？我的观点是：任何优秀音乐的创作都很难。极简主义好音乐难写，极度复杂密集的好音乐同样难写——只是难点不同，两者都容易搞砸。比如极简歌曲若只有旋律与和弦进行，那每个元素都必须极其出色。

If so, why do you think that is? Well, my answer to this question is that writing any good music is difficult. Writing minimalist good music is difficult, and writing very maximalist complicated and dense music that's also good is difficult. They're difficult in different ways, and it's easy to mess up both of them, though, of course, in different ways. I mean, messing up just a really simple song, if you're just writing a melody in a chord progression, you just have to have very strong, ingredients.

你需要绝妙的旋律、精彩的和声走向、优秀的曲式结构和歌词，因为极简作品中每个元素都至关重要。这确实很难，毕竟没有其他元素可以分散注意力。但复杂歌曲同样需要这些基础要素。Patrick提到的Lorde专辑《Pure Heroine》是她2013年与Joel Little共同制作的。

You need a really good melody and a really nice chord progression, a good song form, good lyrics, because each individual element is gonna matter so much because there's just not a lot to it. So, yeah, it's hard to do that because you need to create those things and have them be strong enough to carry the song because there isn't a lot else going on. But you need those things in a more dense, complicated song as well. Patrick references Lorde's album Pure Heroine. This is a 2013 album that she co produced with Joel Little.

这张专辑的极简主义初次聆听就令我震撼，其音效极其酷炫。Billie Eilish近期与哥哥Phineas合作的作品也有类似气质。我极其敬佩这种用极少配器就能营造强烈吸引力的音乐。

And, yeah, I the minimalism of this album struck me the first time that I heard it. I think it sounds really, really cool. Billie Eilish's recent stuff that she made with Phineas, her brother, also kind of minimalist in a similar way. And I respect the heck out of music like this that can be so compelling and so interesting sounding without a whole ton going on in the mix.

电视里的爆炸声。

Explosions on TV.

这是Lorde的《Buzzcut Season》，它将极简主义发挥到极致——先极致收敛再爆发。但这恰恰说明问题的复杂性：从制作角度看这张专辑确实极简，每轨配器都极其精简，但对空间感的运用堪称教科书级别。

This is the Lord Song buzz cut season, and I mean, it gets a lot out of how minimalist it is. It gets so small before it gets big. However, I think that that also illustrates how complicated this question is because I think that that album is minimalist from a production standpoint. There's not a whole lot going on in any given track. They use space very effectively.

他们运用混响效果非常美妙。空间感和对比度恰到好处，你能清晰听到每一个独立的声音，比如电子鼓、合成器铺垫、时隐时现的和声。所有元素都有充分的活动空间，但我不会像保罗·麦卡特尼所说的那样将这些歌曲归类为极简主义作品。这首是披头士乐队演绎的保罗·麦卡特尼作品《I'm Down》，正是帕特里克在提问中提到的歌曲。

They use reverb really beautifully. There's a really just nice sense of space and contrast, and you can hear each individual sound, you know, the electronic drums, the pads, the backup vocals that come in and out. There's a lot of room for everything to move around, but I wouldn't call these songs minimalist songs in the way that Paul McCartney may have been talking about. So this is I'm Down by Paul McCartney performed by the Beatles. This is the song that Patrick was referencing in his question.

这首歌以另一种方式呈现简洁。它就是一首纯粹的蓝调，和声进行非常直白。虽然结尾的转折稍有变化，但从创作角度来看确实极其简单。创作这样的歌曲同样有其独特的挑战性。

This is simple in a different way. This song is just a blues. It's very straightforward harmonically. I mean, it's kinda like a tweaked blues with a different turnaround at the end, but it's really, really straightforward from a songwriting perspective. So writing a song like that has its own unique challenges as well.

我的意思是，你可以写一首蓝调，曲式结构基本已经固定。那么你要表达什么？明白吗？在现存60亿首蓝调歌曲中，你的作品凭什么脱颖而出？

I mean, you can write a blues. You've you've pretty much got the form established already. So then what do you have to say? You know? What's what's gonna be the hook of your blues to make it stand out from the 6,000,000,000 blues songs that already exist?

Prince的《Kiss》就是成功突围的典范。它用极其简单的元素创造出全新听感，历经岁月仍独具魅力。归根结底，无论是歌曲的和声旋律元素，还是制作中的混音元素，当作品仅由少量元素构成时，每个元素都必须足够突出且有力，因为它们要支撑起更大比例的创作内容。当然，制作复杂作品同样困难——最明显的陷阱就是堆砌过多声部导致杂乱无章，这在数字音乐时代尤为常见，毕竟现在用Logic或GarageBand就能随时调用整个交响乐团。

And Prince's Kiss is a good example of a blues that does stand out from the 6,000,000,000 blues songs that already exist. I mean, that's a great example of taking really simple elements and then doing something totally new with it and making a song that still sounds distinct all these years later. To boil it down though, I would say that anything that only has a few elements in it, be they harmonic melodic elements of a song or just acoustic mix elements of a production, that's gonna be difficult because each of those elements needs to really stand on its own and be very strong because it's holding up a sort of larger percentage of the overall creation. However, it's just as difficult to make something very complicated. Obviously, the easiest trap you can fall into if you make something with a million parts and a million different sounds is that it it just gets too jumbled and busy, and that's a really common mistake that a lot of people make, especially in the age of digital music creation because you can set up Logic or GarageBand and suddenly have a whole symphony orchestra at your fingertips.

稍不注意，很快就会出现17个合成器声部和无数弦乐声部混杂不清的情况。我深有体会，相信很多听众也是。这就是为什么回归四轨录音机、一把吉他和人声的创作方式反而有益——这种限制迫使你必须强化核心元素：旋律、和弦进行、曲式结构和歌词。在数字工作室里容易分心的那些花哨效果，在这种简约创作中根本无暇顾及。所以说，这种挑战其实是在激励优质创作。

And if you're not very careful soon, you know, there's 17 synth parts and a million string parts and everything is just sort of mashing into everything else, and it's hard to hear what's even going on. I've certainly been there. I'm sure a lot of people listening to this have been there. And that's kind of why when you go back to the days of just sitting down with a four track recorder and a guitar and your voice and just seeing what you can come up with, like, that's a good way to write because it restricts you and because you then have to make each of those core elements, the melody, the chord progression, the song form, the lyrics, you have to make them all strong, and you can't get sidetracked with all the bells and whistles that you can if you're working in a digital studio. So I'd say that, yes, it is challenging, though it's challenging in a way that kind of incentivizes good writing.

所以我认为，如果你要以某种方式挑战自己，不妨先从极简主义的方式开始，专注于提炼出优秀的核心元素。不过，确实，创作伟大的音乐无论采用何种方式、无论繁简都很难。写出好音乐本就不易，总会面临某种独特的挑战。Kira留言问道：我对九十年代中期音乐，尤其是垃圾摇滚（但不限于此）有个疑问。当我听到新旧混音的曲目时，总觉得老歌听起来音质更饱满。

So I'd say if you're gonna challenge yourself one way or the other, start by challenging yourself in the minimalist way to just come up with the good core elements. But, yes, I mean, writing great music is hard no matter how you're doing it, how busy or simple it is. It's just it's not easy to write great music, and so it's always going to have some sort of a distinct challenge. Kira writes, I have a question about mid nineties music, particularly grunge, though not exclusively. When I hear a mix with newer and older stuff, it feels like the older stuff has a much fuller sound.

仿佛低频和吉他声部更丰富，而且左右声道的所有元素都更充沛。这是当时流行的某种压缩或混音技术造就了这种温暖包裹感的饱满音效，还是我只是#怀念自己的青少年时代？嗯，确实存在原因——九十年代初及更早的八十年代作品，特别是硬摇滚和电台音乐，听起来就是比九十年代中后期的作品更好，这与母带处理技术及所谓的'响度战争'有关。响度战争指的是音乐产业全面转向数字音乐（特别是从磁带、黑胶等模拟格式转向CD）时，母带处理领域发生的变革。母带工程师是制作链的最后一环。

It's like there's more bass and guitar, but also kind of more everything in both channels. Was there some sort of compression or mixing trend that was popular at the time that gave this full warm kind of enveloping sound, or am I just hashtag nostalgic for my teen years? Well, yes, there is a reason that some things from the early nineties and and before that kind of from the eighties sound better, especially hard rock and radio music sound better than stuff from the mid and late nineties in particular, and it's to do with mastering and something called the loudness wars. The loudness wars refers to a change that took place in mastering when the whole of the music industry shifted to digital music and specifically shifted to the compact disc from analog formats like tape and vinyl. Mastering engineers are the last step in the chain.

他们会对立体声混音进行润色：提升电平、适度压缩，让所有声音听起来均衡悦耳，适合电台播放。在模拟时代，母带工程师必须确保每首混音在黑胶等模拟系统上都能良好呈现，这意味着他们的工作方式受到很大限制。

They take the stereo mix and they kind of sweeten it. They push the levels up. They kinda compress things a bit. They get everything sounding nice and even and ready for the radio. In the analog days, the mastering engineer had to make sure that every mix would sound good and would work on analog systems like Vinyl systems, which meant they were working in a pretty restricted way.

他们无法在电平调节上过于激进，因为存在许多不稳定性。你不能把参数推得太极端，必须更加保守。数字时代的到来意味着你有了可量化的数值参考——所有CD播放器都会以完全相同的方式读取这些数字信息，因此我们可以将电平精确提升到某个临界点。这意味着可用动态余量更大，能从录音中压榨出更多响度。母带工程师对此的理解远比我深刻，我这里只是转述。

They they couldn't go too wild with the levels because there was a lot of sort of inconsistency. You never you couldn't push things too, too far. You wanted to be more conservative. The advent of digital meant that you actually had a sort of mathematical number that you could look at and say, well, all CD players are gonna read this digital information the exact same way, so we can crank the levels to exactly this stopping point, meaning there was a lot more headroom and they could squeeze a lot more loudness out of a recording. This is something that mastering engineers understand a lot better than I do, and I'm kinda just paraphrasing.

我推荐去听《20,000赫兹》播客关于这个话题的专题节目。他们不久前做过两期相关内容。我曾邀请《20,000赫兹》的主持人Dallas Taylor来《强歌》节目，我们也简单探讨过这个问题。他们的系列节目非常精彩，提供了大量绝佳案例来演示这个原理，效果远胜我的解释。所以快去听听吧。

I recommend going and listening to the episode of 20,000 Hertz about this. They did a two parter on this subject a little while ago. I had the host of 20,000 Hertz on strong songs, Dallas Taylor, and we talked about it a little bit as well. But their series is very good, and he has a ton of great examples that really demonstrate how this works, more effectively than I could. So go check those out.

我会在节目笔记里放上相关链接。我知道这期节目里我有点在大力推荐《20,000赫兹》播客。不过巧的是，我最近刚作为嘉宾参与了他们最新一期关于DS Eray的节目——长期听众应该记得，我之前做过一期讲述《圣诞夜惊魂》里《Making Christmas》的幕后故事。如果想听我演奏口风琴并讨论小调音阶，可以去听听看。玛丽来信说：'我是一名合唱团指挥，想告诉你唐·麦克林在《American Pie》开头使用的技巧术语，你们在之前的问答环节讨论过这个。'

I'll put links to them down in the show notes. And I know I'm kind of promoting a lot of 20,000 Hertz on this episode. But actually, as it happens, I'm a guest on the most recent episode about the DS Eray, which is something that longtime listeners of this show will remember from the episode that I did about making Christmas from the nightmare before Christmas. So if you wanna hear me playing melodica and talking about minor tonality, go check that out. Mary writes, I am a choir director and wanted to give you the term for the technique Don McLean uses at the beginning of American Pie, which you talked about on an earlier q and episode.

这种技巧叫宣叙调（recitative），常见于歌剧、清唱剧和音乐剧。听起来可能像即兴发挥，实际上通常是与伴奏乐器或指挥事先编排好的。宣叙调也常用来为咏叹调或歌曲铺垫场景，麦克林就运用得非常巧妙。可以听听亨德尔的《弥赛亚》，里面宣叙调完美引出了咏叹调。

It is recitative. This is a technique used in operas, oratorios, and musicals. It may sound random and does offer some opportunity for improvisation, but they are usually planned with the accompanying instruments or the conductor. The recitative is also a device to set the scene for an aria or song, which MacLean does so well. Listen to Handel's Messiah for recitative that wonderfully lead to arias.

所以这就是唐·麦克林在《American Pie》里使用的正式术语。谢谢玛丽来信分享。凯蒂写道：'或许你能在播客里解决我们的争论。我很喜欢你之前在问答环节的仲裁。'

So that is the official term for what Don McLean is doing on American Pie. Thanks, Mary, for writing in to share that. Katie writes, maybe you can settle a debate on your podcast. I loved hearing your other settlements on q and a episodes. Yes.

我很乐意在问答环节调解音乐争议。如果你们有音乐方面的分歧，欢迎来信，我会给出专业意见。凯蒂的问题是：'我和丈夫对Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats的《SOB》有分歧。他认为副歌部分升了半音，但我认为他们只是故意或通过加速让音高微升了四分之一音，仍保持原调。'

I am happy to settle debates on q and a episodes. If you ever have a musical disagreement with somebody, feel free to send it in, and, I will weigh in. So here's Katie's. My husband and I have a disagreement about the song SOB by Nathaniel Rateliff and the Night Sweats. He thinks that the chorus modulates up a full half step, but I believe they are still in the same key and have just tuned up by quarter step either on purpose or by speeding up the track.

我听着也不像副歌升了完整半音。你觉得谁对？我们都是科班出身的音乐人，很少会对听感产生分歧。这个例子很有意思。

It doesn't sound to me like they are a full half step higher going into that first chorus. Who do you think is right? We are both trained lifelong musicians, and it's odd for us to disagree on how we hear something like this. Alright. This is a pretty, this is an interesting example.

我们来听听这首歌——Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats的《SOB》。争议在于到底是F调还是升F调，其实两者都有道理，因为音准本身有些游移。进入副歌时确实有轻微升高。

So let's listen to this song. This is Nathaniel Reitliff and The Night Sweats performing their song SOB. So the question here whether in the key of f or the key of f sharp and there's an argument to be made for both because it's kind of in between. It's not perfectly in tune. And then also when they get to the chorus, they do go just a little bit higher.

太棒了

Great

顺便说，这个副歌写得真好。刚才提到创作简单歌曲的问题，这首歌就是典型简洁结构的范例，非常出色。

chorus, by the way. Great song. Talking about that earlier question about writing a simple song. This song is a really straightforward song form. Totally rules.

你看，用经典简约的曲式也能写出好作品，尤其配上这么棒的乐队演奏。回到凯蒂的问题：这首歌是主歌F调然后副歌升半音到升F调？还是本来就是升F调，只是第一节主歌音准稍有浮动？

So, yeah, you can write, you know, a classic sounding song with a classic, very simple stripped down song form, and it can be good, especially if have a really popping band, and this band sounds great. Okay. So on to Katie's question. Is this kind of starting in f and then jumping up a full half step in the chorus and then staying up in f sharp for the rest of the song? Or is it just an f sharp and it's just slightly kind of tuned a little bit differently, especially during that first verse?

我认为后者更符合实际情况。凯蒂，我支持你的观点。判断依据有三点：这首歌本就是升F调，但开头演奏得比较随性——这种乐队通常喜欢全员同步录音。

I think that that second thing is what's going on here. So Katie, I'm siding with you on this one. I think the song is just in f sharp. I'm basing that on a few things. What I think is going on here is that this song is written in f sharp, but they started it just a little bit loose because this strikes me as the kind of band that just records in the studio altogether.

我认为非常关键的是，开头的诗句完全采用无伴奏合唱形式。只有人声和手部打击乐，比如拍手和胸口轻捶的声音。这种情况下，音准稍微拉伸一点会容易得多。你们不会走调，因为彼此的音准是相互协调的，这才是重点。但可以稍微偏离乐器的调音基准，因为没有参照点。

And it's, I think, very important that that opening verse is entirely acapella. It's just singing and hand percussion, like hand claps and sort of thumps on your chest. When that happens, it's a lot easier to stretch the tuning just a little bit. You don't go out of tune because you're in tune with one another, and that's the important thing. But you can get a little bit away from where the instruments are tuned because there's no reference point.

没有钢琴，没有吉他，也没有其他乐器伴奏。所以他们只是彼此和声演唱。听起来很棒，但当乐队加入时，他们已经将音高调整到接近吉他调音的A440标准，这时他们就明确而稳固地处于升F调了。

There's no piano. There's no guitar. There's no other instrument playing. So they're just singing in tune with one another. It sounds great, but then by the time the band comes in, they've kind of brought it up to where the guitars are tuned, which is closer to an a four forty, and then they're definitely and solidly in the key of f sharp.

贱人，给我来杯酒。109号。

Bitch, give me a drink. One zero nine.

这是个明显的转变。可能是他们确实在这里做了剪辑，先录制了无伴奏前奏，然后单独录制了副歌部分。等到单独录制副歌时，人声已经完全按照吉他的调音校准了。所以他切入那个升F调时非常稳当——我是说，那里有个非常扎实的升F音。

It's a noticeable shift. It could be that they actually spliced there, that they had recorded that acapella intro, and then they recorded the chorus separately. And by the time they were recording the chorus separately, the vocals were totally set to the same tuning as the guitars. So he just because he just comes in really solidly on that f sharp. I mean, that's a really solid f sharp right there.

音高明显上移了。我在想这是不是因为存在剪辑，他们先按彼此和声录制了前段，后来才录制的副歌。结果导致音准有轻微偏差。不过我觉得这听起来真的很酷，凯蒂，就像你知道的那样，有种向副歌部分攀升的感觉。这也正是乐队加入的时刻，非常振奋人心。

It's a noticeable shift up. I wonder if that's because there is a splice and they recorded the one thing just sort of tuning to one another and then later recorded the chorus. And as a result, the tuning is just a little bit off. I think it actually sounds really cool though because as you know, Katie, it just it sounds like there's this lift into the chorus. That's also where the band comes in, and it's really exciting.

严格来说这不算转调，至少在我看来不是。更像是整体音高稍微提升了一点。我认定这首歌是升F调的另一个原因是，我去查了他们的一些现场表演。BBC有个很棒的现场版。

Having it, it's not quite a key change, at least in my opinion. It's just sort of like a little bit higher. It's all just tuned a little bit higher. The other reason that I think this song is in f sharp is that I went and checked out some live performances of it. There's a cool one of them doing this on the BBC.

现场表演时，他们非常稳定地保持在升F调。从升F调开始，所有人同时进入同一个调。这让我觉得这首歌本就是为升F调创作的，只是录音室版本开头主歌部分有些独特处理——我认为这让录音室版显得非常特别且酷炫。但最终凯蒂，这次你是对的，这首歌确实是升F调。

And when they perform this live, they're pretty solidly in the key of f sharp. They started in f sharp, and that's them all at once, you know, starting out in the same key. And that makes me think this song was written to be an f sharp, and there's just kind of a bit of an idiosyncrasy with that beginning verse in the studio, which I think makes the studio version very special and very cool. But I do think that in the end, Katie, you're right on this one. This song is in f sharp.

马修留言说：『我喜欢听朋友乐队的作品，但有时候即使乐手个人技术很棒，混音也很完美，听起来还是像车库乐队而非专业乐队。我注意到主要区别在于声音有种拖沓感。你明白我的意思吗？是乐队没完全卡准节拍，还是另有原因？』其实这是个好问题，和上个问题有些关联。

Matthew writes, I love listening to my friends' bands, but sometimes, even though the musicians are great on their own, the mix is perfectly good, they still sound like a garage band and not a professional band. The main difference I noticed is a certain sluggishness in the sound. Do you know what I'm talking about? Is it just the group not being completely on the beat every time, or is something else going on? Well, this is actually a good question that sort of relates back to that last question.

确实存在这种现象。可能的原因有很多，马修，我没听过你提到的那些乐队。但我理解你说的那种普遍情况。有些乐队录音缺乏凝聚力，通常是因为不是专业录音师操刀，或者各部分分开录制。首先，乐队必须要有严密的配合。

There is something to this. There's a lot of different things that possibly could be, and I haven't heard your friends' bands, Matthew, that you're asking about. But, yeah, I know the general thing that you're talking about. There can be a lack of cohesion in some band recordings, usually when they're not recorded by professional recording engineers and usually when the parts are recorded separately. So for starters, yeah, a band just needs to be tight.

他们需要彼此紧密配合。即使是优秀乐手组成的好乐队，很多时候也会有些松散的地方，比如底鼓和贝斯必须严丝合缝。优秀鼓手和好鼓手的区别在于：很多鼓手独自练习时能打得很好，但伟大鼓手会与众多贝斯手合作，练就与贝斯完美契合的能力。这不仅仅是让底鼓和贝斯音符完全同步——虽然节奏对齐是基础——更是对律动的共同感知。

They need to play tight with one another. And even really good bands with good players, a lot of times there are some things that are just a little bit loose, like the kick drum and the bass need to just be super dialed in, and it's kind of the difference between a great drummer and a good drummer is that a lot of drummers get very good playing on their own. But great drummers play with a lot of bass players and get very, very good at locking in with the bass player. And that's more than just playing the kick drum at the exact same time as the bass is playing bass notes even though, you know, that's part of it, having your timing lineup. It's just feeling the groove together.

许多优秀乐队天生就懂得这点，因为鼓手和贝斯手多年来与众多不同音乐人合作过。他们在这方面变得非常、非常出色。这是种难以言传的东西——混音时你能看到鼓和贝斯的波形并不完全对齐，但这不仅仅是数学问题，更像是种感觉。正是这种感觉区分了顶尖乐队和普通乐队。

And a lot of great bands, they just do that instinctively because both the drummer and the bass player have been playing with so many different musicians over the years. They've gotten really, really good at it. And it's one of those things that's it's kinda hard to articulate. You can look at the waveforms when you're mixing the drums and the bass and see how they don't line up, but it's more than just a mathematical thing. It's like a feel thing, and that is sort of the difference between a great band and an okay band.

说到分轨录音，特别是鼓和贝斯分开录制时，你会得到更多微妙的松散感。它们不会像同步演奏时那样紧密融合。就像在专业录音棚里，贝斯手和鼓手各自有理想的隔离空间，却能互相看见——良好的视线很重要。

When I talk about bands recording separately, if you record the drums separate from the bass in particular, you get a lot more of that kind of just slight looseness. They're just not gelled in that way that they would be if they were playing together. It's also like if you're in a great recording studio where you can have a nice you know, the bass player is often a nice isolated space. The drummer's in a nice isolated space, but they can see one another. There's good sight lines.

优质的耳机返送能让乐手听清所有细节，这些因素都很关键。但实现这些需要足够空间和设备的工作室，以及经验丰富的工程师。作为家庭录音者，我深知搭建这种环境的难度和成本。所以独立录音的乐队往往需要在这方面做出妥协，虽然可以通过其他方式弥补，但这通常是首先被舍弃的条件。

There's a really good headphone mix, and they can hear everything. All of that stuff also makes a difference, but that stuff's hard to get because you've gotta go to a studio where there's enough space and enough equipment, and the engineer knows what they're doing. And just as someone who records at home and wouldn't be able to set that kind of thing up on my own, I know how hard it is to get that stuff and how expensive it is. So a lot of bands, when they record on their own, that's kind of some of the sacrifices that you make. And you can make up for that in a lot of different ways, but that's one of the first things to go if you're if you're recording on your own.

问题也可能出在混音上。混音充满微妙之处，工程师常谈论用压缩器和EQ实现的'胶合'效果。优秀的混音有种难以言喻的特质，除非经验丰富，否则很难把握。

So it could be that. It could be the mix. You know, a lot of mixing is just this sort of subtlety. Engineers talk a lot about glue, the idea of using compressors and EQ to glue things together. A really good mix just has a just has a certain quality to it that's very hard to get unless you really know what you're doing and you've been mixing albums for a long time.

就混音水平而言，我顶多算个平庸的工程师。听到专业混音专辑时，那种惊艳效果总让我着迷。混音师在此起着关键作用——这个话题值得深入探讨。

I'm a mediocre engineer at best when it comes to mixing. I'm not really that good at it. And when I listen to a really well mixed album, I mean, it's fascinating how good that can sound. So the mix the mixing engineer can play a big role there. And I wanna talk more about mixing.

其实我认识几位想邀请来节目探讨混音艺术的工程师。也可能是混音不够专业导致的——如果没聘请专业混音师，就难达到完美效果。说到'迟滞感'这个词，让我联想到压缩处理：恰当的压缩能增强曲目的冲击力和弹性，但若压缩器设置过快，反而会削弱瞬态响应，产生迟滞感。

Actually, know a couple of mix engineers that I wanna have on the show to talk a little bit about that art form because it's fascinating. But it could also be that. It could be that just the mix isn't quite what it would be if they'd hired a professional mixing engineer and if it was super perfectly well mixed. And related to that, the last thing I think, just Matthew, when you say the term sluggishness, it makes me think of compression because compression is a thing that can it can really enhance the sort of punchiness and bounce of a track, but it can also add a sort of sluggishness to it if you have you know, if your your compressors are too fast, you're kind of, like, smooshing things too much. It's sort of you lose transients.

这样会丧失录音应有的爆发力。作为压缩处理的苦手，我深知其复杂性——需要毕生钻研。不当的压缩应用会逐渐削弱录音的活力，即使乐手演奏出色，仍会产生迟滞感。糟糕的压缩使用确实会扼杀录音的能量。

You lose this sort of pop that a recording can have. And as someone who struggles with compression, it's a complicated thing, and it takes a lifetime to get good at it. I know how that can happen. How if you just use compression wrong in a few too many places, you start to kind of cut off too much of the pop of the recording, and you start to get a sort of a sluggish feeling even though the musicians are playing well and they sound good. And that's actually a way that a bad mix or specifically, a a sort of bad use of compression can really kinda kill the energy of a recording.

这种问题可能像千刀万剐般逐渐显现——当所有音轨和总线都应用了不专业的压缩处理，最终会导致某种特质的流失，产生迟滞感。所以如果我听到这种反馈，首先就会检查压缩设置。好了，现在有几个关于练习方法的问题需要解答。

And it can happen in, you know, kind of a thousand paper cuts. It can just sort of be inexpertly applied compression across all the tracks and the buses, and then just you eventually, you're just sort of losing something, and it starts to feel kinda sluggish. And so if I were hearing that feedback or if I listened to a mix and thought this just kinda sounds sluggish, compression would probably be the first place that I would look. Okay. We have a few questions I wanna get through that are just related to practicing and to your musical practice.

首先理查德问：'应该先学吉他部分再学歌词，还是同步学习？我很难兼顾，但总忍不住跟着唱。妻子建议我放弃唱歌，但我知道她别有用心。'我的建议是：先学好吉他部分。

A few people wrote in about that, and I just wanna answer those questions really quickly. First, Richard writes, would you recommend I learn songs first on guitar and then learn the lyrics or try to learn them both at the same time? I find it hard to do both at once, but I can't help trying to sing it long. My wife suggests that I give up the singing, but I know she has ulterior motives. So I would say, yes, learn the song on guitar first.

歌词你可能已经熟悉了。分别练习演唱部分：先完整掌握吉他演奏，再完整练唱，最后有条理地结合两者——可以逐小节或逐乐句进行融合练习。

The lyrics, you probably already know. Learn how to sing it as well. Practice the two things separately. So learn the whole song on guitar, then learn the whole song singing, practice them separately, then combine them really methodically. Go like a measure at a time, a phrase at a time.

要非常缓慢地进行，试着弄清楚当你的手指从一个和弦移动到另一个和弦或从一个音型转换到另一个音型时，你的声音需要如何配合。这是你需要先掌握吉他部分再开始学习演唱的内容，因为这并不容易。即使你只是在弹奏非常基础的和弦，我想唱歌可能没那么难。但即便如此，这也可能有些困难。你需要非常缓慢地练习，直到你能同时做到两件事，就像一边揉肚子一边拍头那样。

Go very slowly and sort of work out what your voice is gonna have to be doing as your fingers move from chord to chord or figure to figure. It's something that you need to know the guitar part first before you start learning the singing because it's not easy. Like, even if you're I mean, you're strumming really basic chords, I guess it's not that hard to sing. But even then, that can kind of be difficult. And you want to go very slowly and get it so you can kind of, you know, rub your belly and pat your head at the same time.

这有点像你正在做的事情。你必须同时做两件事，并将大脑集中在两件事上。所以先分别学习它们，然后慢慢结合起来，并且要非常有条理。如果可能的话，使用节拍器，因为它能帮助你在节奏方法上更有纪律性。是的，这就是我建议的方法。

That's kind of what you're doing. You have to do two things and focus your brain on two things at once. So learn them separately, then slowly combine them and be very methodical about it. Use a metronome if you if you can because that'll help you sort of be regimented in your rhythmic approach. And, yeah, that's the approach that I would suggest.

Jasmine写道，我很想了解更多关于你作为多乐器演奏者的练习方式。你如何平衡在不同乐器上的时间分配？另外，你是否曾经或现在保持练习日记？如果有，你发现记录哪些内容重要且有用？按顺序来说，我过去曾谈过这个问题，但没错，我现在是一个多乐器演奏者。

Jasmine writes, I'd love to know more about how you practice as a multi instrumentalist. How do you balance your time across instruments? Also, do you or have you ever kept a practice journal? If so, what things have you found important and useful to record? So in order, I've talked about this in the past, but, yeah, I'm a multi instrumentalist at this point.

我演奏多种不同的乐器。最近主要是吉他、贝斯、声乐和鼓。这些是我主要练习的乐器，偶尔也会练练钢琴。我不再像以前那样经常练习萨克斯了，因为那是我多年来的主要乐器。我可以继续练习它，那会很有趣，但我在其他乐器上有更多的成长空间。

I play a bunch of different instruments. And mostly these days, I work on guitar, bass, vocals, drums. Those are kind of the main ones that I'm practicing in piano some. I don't practice saxophone as much anymore because that was my main instrument for a lot of years. And I could be practicing that, and it would be fun, but I I kind of have a lot more room to grow on those other instruments.

我倾向于一次专注于一种乐器，通常持续一个月、六周，也许两个月。我不会在它们之间切换得太快，至少对于贝斯、鼓和吉他这三种我主要练习的乐器是这样。我发现我需要持续地练习其中一种乐器，频繁切换对我来说效果不佳。我没有那么多时间。如果我能整天练习，也许可以分配时间，但我做不到。

I tend to focus on one at a time usually for, like, a month, six weeks, maybe two months. I don't go too quickly between them all, at least when it comes to bass, drums, and guitar, which are the main three instruments that I practice. I find that I need a kind of consistent practice on one of those instruments, and it just doesn't work for me to go from one to the next to the next. I don't have time. I mean, maybe if I was practicing all day, I could break up my time, but I I don't.

所以我每天基本上有一个主要的练习时段，专注于一种乐器。例外是声乐。我确实每天练习唱歌，因为这更像是一种肌肉训练。我正在尝试学习新的习惯，并在我的声音中建立新的能力。

So I I kind of have one major practice session each day. So I focus on one at a time. The exception to that is vocals. I do practice singing every day because that's more of a muscle thing. I'm trying to learn new habits and build up new things in my voice.

所以我每天练习大约一小时的唱歌。这有点不同，我确实每天练习一小时的唱歌。至于练习日记，我现在没有保持，但我应该这样做。每当我保持练习日记时，效果都很好。这就是你记录当天练习内容的地方。

So I practice like an hour of singing each day. So that's a little bit different, and I do practice an hour of singing each day. As far as a practice journal goes, I don't keep one right now, but I should. They're great anytime that I've kept one. It's been really good, and this is just where you kind of document what you worked on that day.

它帮助我的是保持持续的进步。特别是当我练习音阶、模式、音型或练习曲时，我会记录速度。如果我每天慢慢提高速度，我就可以看到我的进步。这让我更容易避免连续几天在同一个速度上原地踏步，没有任何真正的进步或成长。当你有一个记录时，回顾和追踪你的成长会容易得多。

What it helps me do is just make consistent progress. I keep track of tempos in particular when I'm working on scales or patterns, figures, etudes. If I am slowly increasing the speed each day, I can then look at my progress. It just makes it a lot easier for me not to wind up accidentally treading water for a few days, doing the same thing at the same speed all the time, never really improving or having any growth. It's just when you have a log of it, it's a lot easier to look back and track your growth.

而且，几年后回头看过去的练习日记也很有趣。所以，是的，我喜欢练习日记。强烈推荐。最后一个练习问题来自Levi，他写道，我已经弹吉他超过十年了，水平还不错，但我想将我的演奏提升到下一个层次。为了实现这个目标，你会建议什么样的练习计划？

And then it's also fun, you know, two years down the road to look back at your practice journals from a long time in the past. So, yeah, I love practice journals. Totally recommend them. Last practicing question comes from Levi who writes, I've been playing guitar for over ten years, and I'm a decent player, but I want to take my playing to the next level. What kind of practice regimen would you suggest to reach that goal?

我应该专注于练习基本功，学习大量中级水平的曲目，还是挑战一些非常难的内容并慢慢积累直到能熟练演奏？好的。我想第三种方法，也就是选择一些非常难、超出你当前水平的内容，然后慢慢分解，非常缓慢地练习，逐步积累直到掌握，如果你已经弹了一段时间并且掌握了很多东西，这是一个不错的成长方式。然而，我实际上要给出一个稍微不同但可能可以预见的建议，那就是找一个私人教师。如果你已经学习了十年，听起来你只是在寻找一种自学的方式，一个新的练习计划，一个新的挑战，如果你真的想将你的演奏提升到下一个层次，找一个私人教师。

Should I focus on drilling fundamentals, learning lots of intermediate level pieces, or tackling something really challenging and slowly building it up so that I can play it well? Okay. I guess that third thing, you know, taking something really hard, something that's beyond you, and then slowly breaking it apart, taking it really slow, building it up so that you can learn it, that is a good way to grow if you've been playing for a while and you've got a lot of stuff together. However, I'm actually gonna give slightly different but possibly predictable advice, and that is get a private teacher. If you've been learning for ten years and it sounds like you're looking just for, like, a kind of self taught thing with, you know, some a new practice regimen, a new thing for you to tackle on your own, if you really wanna take your plane to the next level, get a private teacher.

他们不仅能具体指导你该做什么，分配练习片段并陪你一起完成，这不仅是获得针对性技术指导的最佳方式，聘请私人教师本身就会让你更认真对待练习——这种微妙的影响难以言表却真实存在。我认为这正是私人教师最大的价值之一：它能让你跳出自我体验和固有思维，以我认为极其有益的方式引入外部视角。

Not only will they be able to tell you specifically what you should be doing and assign you pieces and work with you on them, it's just it's the best way both to have someone working with you on your technique specifically, but also just paying someone, paying a private teacher. It'll make you take your own practice more seriously in a way that's kinda hard to articulate, but has a real effect. And I think that that is one of the most helpful things about getting a private teacher. It gets you outside of your own experience and outside of your head. It brings somebody else in in a way that I think is really, really helpful.

这就是我的建议。Levi，或许你已有私人教师，那这个建议对你多余了。但所有听众请注意：如果你演奏乐器有段时间了，如果是自学想提升，找个私人教师吧。YouTube教程很好，网络建议也不错，

So that's my advice. Maybe, Levi, you already have a private teacher, and this advice is not necessary for you. But anybody listening to this, if you've been playing an instrument for a while, if you're self taught, you wanna get better, get a private teacher. YouTube tutorials are great. Online tips and advice are great.

但没有什么能替代真人观察你的演奏并给出改进建议。这才是让你技艺更上层楼的方法。《强音之歌》第二季最终问答环节到此结束。感谢所有提问听众。如果想为第三季提问，请发邮件至listeners@StrongSongsPodcast.com。

There's no substitute for having another human being look at your playing and tell you what you can do to get better. That's the way that you can take your playing to the next level. And that'll do it for the final q and a episode of Strong Songs year two. Thanks to everybody who sent in a question. And if you would like to send in a question for consideration for year three, send emails to listeners at Strong Songs Podcast dot com.

所有社交链接都在节目备注里。你也可以订阅我的简讯，近期就会发送一期，备注里也有订阅链接。衷心感谢所有在Patreon支持《强音之歌》的朋友，

All my social links are down in the show notes. You can also sign up for my newsletter. I'm gonna be sending one of those out pretty soon. So there's a link for that down in the show notes as well. Thank you so much to everyone who supports Strong Songs on Patreon.

是你们让这一切成为可能。我的感激无以言表。如果想了解如何支持这档完全由听众赞助的节目，请访问patreon.com/strongsongs。你也可以通过口碑传播来支持——如果认识可能喜欢本节目的人，请推荐给他们。

You're making all of this possible. I I can't say enough how much I appreciate it. If you would like to know more about how to support me making this show, which is totally listener supported, go to patreon.com/strongsongs. You can also support me by spreading the word. So if you know someone who might like this show, tell them about it.

本集结尾彩蛋来自独一无二的吉他手Dan Nervo。请继续收听Dan的演奏，两周后我将带着又一首强歌回归。

This episode's outro solace is the one and only Dan Nervo on the guitarist. So stick around for Dan, and I will be back in two weeks with yet another strong song.