独立创业者Mike Morrison谈会员制业务的启动与扩展

我们都渴望拥有像Netflix或亚马逊Prime那样的业务。一旦客户与之建立联系，就会自动成为他们生活方式的一部分。但如何构建这种永续交易呢？我是罗比·凯尔曼·巴克斯特，近二十年来我一直在研究订阅和会员模式。在这个播客中，我和嘉宾们将分享会员经济的秘诀与策略。

We all want a business like Netflix or Amazon Prime. Businesses where once a customer engages with them, it becomes automatic and a part of their lifestyle from then on. But how do you build that forever transaction? I'm Robbie Kelman Baxter, and I have been studying subscription and membership models for nearly twenty years. In this podcast, my guests and I share the secrets and strategies of the membership economy.

欢迎收听《订阅故事》，来自实战的真实案例。我的许多播客嘉宾都曾建立并扩展了大型会员订阅业务，拥有专业团队和复杂软件支持。但如果团队只有你一个人呢？今天的嘉宾迈克·莫里森九年前创办了《会员极客》播客，专门帮助独立创业者建立在线会员业务。你完全可以不依靠团队、完全在线推动有意义的订阅业务——这正是迈克在他的会员学院所传授的。

Join us for subscription stories, true tales from the trenches. Many of my guests on the podcast have built and scaled large membership and subscription businesses with big teams of specialists and sophisticated software to support their efforts. But what if the team is just you? Today's guest, Mike Morrison, launched the membership geeks podcast nine years ago to help solopreneurs build online membership businesses. You can drive a meaningful subscription without a team and totally online, and that's what Mike teaches at his membership academy.

在我们的对话中，我们将探讨自九年前初次相识以来会员经济的演变，某些会员模式比其他模式更成功的关键要素，以及独自工作时如何实现规模扩张。迈克，欢迎来到节目。

In our conversation, we talk about how the membership economy has evolved since we first met nine years ago, some of the elements that make one membership more successful than another, and what it takes to scale when you're working alone. Mike, welcome to the show.

罗比，非常感谢邀请我。能讨论会员模式让我非常兴奋。

Robbie, thanks so much for having me on. I'm really excited to talk memberships.

是啊，这次对话早就该进行了。我们相识已久，你确实已成为会员模式领域的权威专家之一。我想先请你谈谈《会员极客》，你创办它的初衷以及这个名称的由来。

Yeah. It's well overdue. We've known each other for a long time, and you really have become one of the de facto experts on membership models. So I wanted to start. Tell me about Membership Geeks and why you started it and why you call it that.

是的。我们创办Membership Geeks是因为我和前合伙人一直在经营一家代理机构，多年来帮助人们进行数字营销、创办在线业务。随着业务增长，我们越来越专注于那些最能激发我们热情的业务类型，那些我们乐于合作、从中获得个人成就感，同时也看到最大增长潜力和未来前景的领域。这大概是在2014、2015年左右。

Yeah. So we started Membership Geeks because we'd been running an agency, myself and my former cofounder. We've been running an agency for years, just helping people with their digital marketing, starting online businesses. And the more we grew, the more we just start zeroing in on the types of businesses that lit us up the most, the types we enjoyed working with, where we got our personal fulfillment from, but also where we saw the most potential for growth and for the future. This was kind of back in 2014, 2015.

于是我们开始越来越专攻在线会员业务，与专家、意见领袖合作，帮助他们围绕专业知识创建付费社群。我们发现很多人会来寻求帮助，但我们却无法协助——要么我们已超负荷，要么他们预算不足，或者时机不合适。所以我们希望有个地方可以推荐他们去：'去读这篇博客'。

So we started specializing more and more in just working with online memberships, with experts, influencers who wanted to start a paid community around their expertise. And we kind of figured a lot of people would come to us for help who we couldn't help. We were overcapacity or they just didn't have the budget or it wasn't the right time for them to hire someone to do it for them. So we wanted somewhere to send them. Go read this blog.

'订阅这份通讯'，让他们能获得关于这种商业模式的优质、可持续、符合道德的指导，但我们找不到这样的资源。2015年时，虽然你的书在小企业界和大企业界都起到了引领作用，但这个领域仍是一片空白。没人从商业模式的角度讨论这个问题，少数提及的人也只是把它当作噱头。

Go subscribe to this newsletter where they would get good, sustainable, ethical advice on this business model, and we couldn't find anywhere. So back in 2015, and we know, obviously, your book kind of led the charge, I think, within the small business world as well as, obviously, the big business world too, but there was nothing. No. Nobody was talking about this in terms of business model. The few people who were, it was a gimmick.

那只是个诱饵，是另一种从销售漏斗里榨取额外收入的投机方式，并没有被严肃视为商业模式。于是我们想：既然没人做这件事，那就由我们开始吧。最初是博客和播客，我们想为个体创业者创建权威资源，提供现实世界中符合道德的指导，来运用这个我们眼中的未来商业模式。

It was a hook. It was sort of another sleazy way that you could squeeze a little extra money from your funnel, and it was not being treated seriously as as a business model. And so there was that thing of, okay. If no one else is doing this, we'll start doing it. So it started as a blog and a podcast, and we wanted to create that go to resource for real world ethical advice for the solopreneur to leverage what we saw as kind of the business model of the future.

它很快从博客和播客发展成我们自己的会员制平台——关于会员制的会员社区'Membership Academy'，这几乎是出于必然。我们本没计划成为会员制经营者，也没打算成为推动会员制领域发展的领军者。我们原本满足于一次服务少量客户，但它爆发式成长了，因为这个领域需要这样的声音——当时只有极少数人在发声，我只记得你的书一出版我们就立刻抢购了。

And it very quickly grew from the blog and the podcast into our own membership about memberships and membership academy almost from necessity. We didn't have any plans to become membership owners. We didn't have any plans to become anyone who was involved in driving the charge for the membership world. We were happy just doing our thing, working with a few clients at a time, but it blew up because that's what the space needed, and there were really only a handful of voices. I can only remember yourself with your book, which snapped it up as soon as it came out.

还有詹姆斯

And James

约翰·沃雷尔。哦，请继续。

John Worrell. Oh, go ahead.

哦，是的，完全正确。《自动客户》。还有超级快商业的詹姆斯·施拉姆科，我知道他之前做过你节目的嘉宾。同样在那个时期，针对教练和个体创业者的在线商业领域，我认为他是唯一另一个用相同语言、秉持相似伦理观发声的人。

Oh, yes. Absolutely. The Automatic Customer. And James Schramko from Superfast Business, I know he's been a guest on your show before. Again, at that time, in terms of the online business space for coaches and solopreneurs, think he was the only other voice sort of speaking the same language, the same sort of ethics.

然后，是的，这逐渐成为了我的整个世界。Membership Geeks以前叫Membership Guys。这是个错误，因为在我和联合创始人卡莉·威洛斯启动这个项目约一小时后，我们收到邮件质问：为什么用'guys'这个词？你们明明一男一女。所以我们当时想，好吧，也许我们该咬牙坚持用这个品牌名。

And, yeah, that kind of became my whole world. Membership Geeks was formerly called Membership Guys. That was a mistake because about an hour after myself and my cofounder, Callie Willows, started this, we got an email saying, why have you used the word guys when one of you is male, one of you is female? So we kinda knew we okay. Maybe we'll just kind of grit our teeth and stick it out with this brand.

我们想做个'名副其实'的品牌。我们就是那群谈论会员制的人。几年前转向Membership Geeks，因为这更符合本质。我热衷于钻研会员制，热爱这些东西。

We wanted to kinda be a does what it says on the tin. We are the guys who go who talk about memberships. Pivoted to membership geeks a few years ago because that's what we are. Like, I'm excited to geek out about memberships. I love this stuff.

它让我着迷。会员制在不同市场中的演变形态，各类人群，那些真正狂热的粉丝群体和遍地开花的社区。我热爱这些，就像人们痴迷漫画书和超级英雄电影——那些我也喜欢，毕竟我是个极客。但我最痴迷的还是会员制。

It fascinates me. The different types of markets that memberships are evolving in, the different types of people, the real those pockets of passionate people, fans, communities that are cropping up all over the place. I love this stuff. I'm in the same way people love comic books and superhero movies and all that sort of stuff I like too because I am a geek, but my biggest geeky thing is memberships.

自那次启动以来——那段时期我也记忆犹新——当时我还在想是否有人和我所见略同。将个人声誉和品牌押注在会员制上确实需要勇气。显然2014年后，会员制乃至更广泛的订阅模式世界已发生巨变，深刻影响了企业主对商业模式的思考。几周前你邀请我重返你的播客——那次很有趣，推荐大家去听——你当时问我：会员制世界发生了哪些变化？现在我很想听听你的见解，角色互换了。

So since that launch, and I remember that time well, also, and wondering if anybody else was seeing what I was seeing, feeling like it required actually some real bravery to attach my reputation and my brand to membership. Obviously, since 2014, the world of membership and the world of subscription models more generally has dramatically transformed and has been influential in transforming the way business owners think about their business models. You asked me a few weeks ago. You actually invited me back on your podcast, which was a lot of fun, I encourage people to listen. You asked me this question on your podcast, how the world of memberships has changed, And I'm really interested in your thoughts, kind of turning the tables.

你观察到了什么？这段旅程是怎样的？

What have you seen? What has the journey been like?

我认为我们看到的是常态化的过程，是接受度的提升。像你我这样的人不再需要像过去那样充当布道者。说服人们'这具有可持续性'的门槛降低了。当然，如果你仍用交易性思维看待初始交易价值，这确实会令人却步。

I think what we've seen has just been that normalization, that acceptance where people like you and I don't need to be evangelists as much as as we did. And that hurdle of convincing people, no. This is sustainable. Yes. Maybe if you just look at that initial transaction value, if you're still coming in with a transactional mindset, of course, it's gonna be scary.

对于习惯收取数千美元咨询费的教练，或是像Adobe这样曾收取数百美元年费许可的软件公司，突然降低单次交易金额——如果只盯着首笔交易，这当然充满风险、令人畏惧。但让人们从交易思维转向会员思维的门槛，我认为已经降低了。

If you're a coach who is accustomed to charging people thousands of dollars for your time, if you are a software company even like Adobe who were charging hundreds of dollars for a yearly license to suddenly reduce that transaction amount. If you're only looking at that first transaction, yes, it is risky. It is scary. It is daunting. And that hurdle of getting people to shift from a transactional mindset to a membership mindset, I think, has been lowered.

我仍然认为市场上存在一定阻力，但可以肯定的是，在个体创业者和小型会员制领域，人们的信息获取更加充分。他们更清楚地认识到售后环节的重要性，因为网络营销尤其侧重于如何促成交易、如何营销、如何打造完美销售漏斗、如何高效投放广告。但关于售后环节的内容却少之又少。现在我认为人们开始理解会员模式时，已经更深刻地意识到留存率的重要性——仅仅完成交易是远远不够的。因为如果你的会员留存率很低，只能获得首笔付款，那么如果无法让客户续费，你其实还不如采用一次性交易模式。

I still think that there's still some resistance in the market, but we're definitely seeing, again, in terms of solopreneurs, micro memberships, people are better informed. They have a better appreciation of the importance of what happens after the sale because so much in online marketing in particular is focused on how to get the sale, how to market, how to get the perfect funnel, how to advertise as effectively and efficiently as possible. But there's so little about what happens after the sale. Now I do think people come to the membership model with a greater understanding of the importance of retention on the realization that just getting the sale is not enough. Because if you have a membership with poor retention and you only get that first payment, well, you might as well have transactional business model if you can't retain people past that first payment.

因此在阻力方面这是个极好的转变——进入会员制领域的普通人知识缺口正在缩小，这催生了更优质的会员体系。意味着无论人们是将会员制整合进现有公司还是作为新产品推出，他们的会员旅程都更加以客户和会员为中心。因为留存率的秘诀就在于聚焦客户满意度、结果交付和客户利益。我知道对很多人来说，这个概念简直颠覆认知：保持会员和客户满意度，满足他们的需求和期望，并持续关注他们。

So that's been a fantastic thing in terms of the resistance, the knowledge gap of the average person coming into the membership world being improved because that makes better memberships. It means people are starting their membership journey, whether it's integrating into their company or starting up as a new product, they are becoming more customer and more member focused because retention, the secret source, the secret formula of it is to focus on customer satisfaction, to focus on results, to focus on things that are good for your customers. I know that for a lot of people, that's just a mind blowing concept. Right? Like, keep your members, keep your customers happy, give them what they need, give them what they want, and pay attention to them.

所以我确实认为专注会员制的企业质量正在提升，无论是知识储备还是资源水平都在进步。现在有更多精通会员旅程各环节的专家可供咨询或提供实操支持。但与此同时，会员市场在某些方面已经过度饱和。我很喜欢你在我节目中提到'规模合理化'这个术语，因为特别是在疫情期间创立的许多会员项目，它们无法在那个特殊泡沫之外存活，现在正面临困境。

And so I think the quality of the types of membership focused businesses, I do think that level is rising. I do think the starting point in terms of knowledge, in terms of resources is is rising. There are more people out there with expertise in various parts of that member journey who you can turn to for advice or for hands on support. But at the same time, there has been an oversaturation, I think, of the membership market in some ways. I love the terminology you used when it came on my show of a rightsizing, and it is because I think there were, particularly during COVID, memberships that were started that really could not thrive outside of that unique bubble, that unique circumstance, and then now struggling.

可能是启动过早，对受众画像理解不足，当时由于缺乏现实世界干扰因素，他们对会员参与度的要求也较低。而现在，作为会员制企业必须达到更高标准——仅仅懂得会员制概念或拥有会员业务模块已经不够了，因为太多人都有这种配置。你必须在互动质量和内容交付方面提升水准。

Maybe they started too early. They didn't have a good enough understanding of their audience profile, and there were perhaps lower expectations of what they needed to do to engage their member because of the fact there weren't any real world distractions happening. Whereas now, the standard you have to be at as a membership focused business is higher because more people are doing it, and so it's not enough to just be membership conversant. It's not enough to just have a membership element to your business because so many other people have that membership element, that membership mindset. You now need to up your game in terms of engagement, in terms of what you're delivering.

这正是我在所处的会员领域观察到的现象。市场成熟度提升固然能更好地武装新入行者，但同时也抬高了门槛——要想在会员制领域生存和发展，就必须达到更高标准。

And that's certainly something that I'm seeing within the corner of the membership world that we occupy. The maturing is great in terms of better equipping the people coming into it, but it raises the bar. It raises the standard of what you need to do to actually survive and thrive as a membership.

没错，你说得太对了。资源更丰富，知识更完备。从某些方面说，现在创立会员制比以往任何时候都容易，但标准也更高了。

Yeah. It's so right on what you said. The resources are better. The knowledge is better. So in some ways, it's easier to launch a membership than it's ever been, but standards are higher.

那么在2025年这样的环境下，假设世界上某个角落有人对某个小众领域充满热情——可能是某个话题、爱好或商业理念，他们想围绕这个创立会员制，但不确定能否持续运营，也不清楚这个想法是否可行，不过他们还是想尝试探索。他们该从哪里起步？

So given this environment, we're talking 2025, somebody out there passionate about a little niche somewhere in the world, some topic, some hobby, some business principle, they wanna start a membership around it. They're not sure if they can sustain it. They don't know if it's a good idea or not. They wanna get started, though, in figuring this out. Where do they start?

在你指导过数百甚至上千名个体创业者完成这个过程的十余年经验里，你会给出什么建议？

What's your guidance after ten plus years of guiding hundreds, if not thousands, of solopreneurs through this process?

我认为要从建立受众开始。这是太多个体创业者跳过的步骤。他们有个好点子就直接采用'建好就会有人来'的梦幻模式。但如今注意力是稀缺资源，正如我之前所说，仅仅拥有会员制或启动会员项目已不足以形成差异化优势。所以你需要聚集你的群体。

I think it starts with building an audience. That is the part that too many people in the solopreneur space skip past. They have a great idea, and they go down the field of dreams kind of approach or build it, and they will come. But attention is at a premium now when and just, as I said before, just having a membership, just starting a membership isn't a differentiator. So you need to assemble your crowd.

你需要找到同频人群并建立受众——不是社交媒体粉丝，而是订阅邮件列表的人，消费你免费内容的人，收听你播客、阅读博客或观看视频的人。因为如果连让人免费订阅播客都困难，那么说服他们付费加入会员就更具挑战性。所以你要开始培养追随者和受众，这不需要规模很大，关键是建立你正在创造价值的标志。

You need to find your people and build an audience, not a following on social media. You need people subscribed to an email list. You need people who are consuming free material from use, listening to your podcast, coming to your blog, watching your videos. Because if you can't get somebody to subscribe to a podcast, you might struggle to get them to subscribe to a paid membership to take that next step. So you need to start building a following and an audience not just so that you have a marker that you're creating, and it doesn't need to be huge.

我是凯文·凯利的忠实粉丝，他提出的‘1000名真粉丝’原则，以及独创业者领域里真实拥有1000名每月支付50美元订阅会员的模式。对普通独创业者而言，月入5万美元的生意远超他们想象中能达成的目标。所以作为专家或影响力者，你并不需要庞大的用户基数，但必须构建受众群体——这既是市场基础，也是验证你想法可行性的平台，同时确认会员制是解决受众问题的最佳方案。这绝非是那种用一段30分钟培训视频就能解决的问题，而是需要更复杂的、反复出现的、没有明确终点的难题，比如追求技艺精进的过程。

I'm a big fan of Kevin Kelly, his principle of 1,000 true fans, and, genuinely, a membership in the solopreneur space with 1,000 paying subscribers at $50 a month. For the average solopreneur, $50,000 a month business is way beyond what they might imagine they'll be able to achieve. So you don't have to have huge numbers here if you're an expert or an influencer, but you do need to build that audience so you have the market, but also so you have a place to validate that this idea has legs and that the best solution for the problems that your audience have is in the membership world. It's not a case of your audience have a problem that can be fixed with one thirty minute long training video. The problem needs to be more sophisticated, a problem people need solving again and again and again, a problem that doesn't have an end date, the pursuit of mastery.

你永远不会成为完美的吉他手。因此聚焦技艺精进和终身学习的会员制模式，但你必须验证自己对受众问题与需求的理解是否正确。需要确认这些问题确实值得受众掏钱请你这个专家来解决。同时还要验证自己串联资源的能力——因为即便你拥有全球最棒的在线教育会员体系，或最渴求解决方案的受众，若无法将两者有效连接，没有测试过能否真正推动人们行动、定位价值主张并促使他们加入会员，一切终将徒劳。

You never become a complete guitar player. And so memberships that focus around mastery and that continuous lifelong learning, but you need to validate your understanding of the problems and the needs that your audience have. You need to validate that those problems are such that they would be willing to put their hand in their pocket and pay you as an expert to solve them. You also need to validate your ability to connect the dots because you could have the best elearning educational membership in the world. You could have the hungriest, neediest audience, but if you're unable to connect the two and you haven't tested whether you can actually compel people into action and position your value proposition and compel people to actually join a membership, then it's never gonna get anywhere.

所以你需要这个受众群体来进行市场调研，验证自己串联所有必要环节以解决问题的能力。我还要强调验证自身兴趣度的重要性——特别是当你作为专家或影响力者时，可能有个绝妙点子，但十年后你还想讨论这个吗？我们即将庆祝会员制学院成立十周年，如我之前所说，我至今仍对此充满热情，可谓废寝忘食。但并非所有人都会对自己的主题保持这种热忱。

So you need to have that audience for market research purposes, for validating your ability to connect all the dots you need to connect to solve the problems and address the needs that your audience have. And I would also say to validate your own interest level because memberships, particularly if you are the expert, you're the influencer, you might have a great idea, but do you want to be talking about this in ten years time? I'm we're just about to celebrate the ten year anniversary of Membership Academy, and I said before, I still geek out about this stuff. I eat, sleep, breathe. I love talking about memberships, but not everyone's gonna have that kind of passion for their topic.

如果连坚持创作几个月博客文章、录制几期相关播客都做不到，未来两三年你根本难以持续。即便你不作为门面深度参与，作为独创业者，你的业务仍源于个人专长与权威地位。因此除了验证市场可行性，还必须坦率验证自己是否会对此感到厌倦——因为若真如此，这将成为严重隐患。

And if you can't stick it out creating a few months worth of blog posts, a few months worth of podcast episodes about a subject, you're really gonna struggle to turn up in two years' time, three years' time, four years' time. Even if you're not heavily involved as the face, you're still running a business around a subject that is, for most solopreneurs, is derived from you, your expertise, your position as an expert and an authority. So, yes, of course, you need to validate everything in your market, but you need to validate whether you're gonna get bored of this to be plain, because if you are, that will become a serious problem.

确实。当初涉足会员制时，我花了几年时间摸索品牌定位——这个话题我常提及。我需要找到足够垂直的领域以建立专业可信度，这很重要；同时又需具备足够广度以保持长期兴趣。正如你所说，最终确定围绕会员经济与订阅定价的细分领域耗费了很长时间。我想特别强调：通过写作和演讲来测试市场兴趣点，同时验证自身热情并构建基础框架的重要性。

Yeah. I know when I started in membership, I had spent and I've talked a lot about this. I had spent a few years trying to figure out where I wanted to plant my brand, and I was looking for something that was narrow enough that I could be credibly the expert, because that's really important. It needed to be broad enough that I could be interested in it for a while, and it took a long time to kind of figure out this little niche around the membership economy and subscription pricing for all the reasons you said. And I just want to emphasize the importance of starting to write about it, starting to speak about it, to see if people are interested and what specifically they're interested in, and also to validate your own interest and start to put some frameworks around it.

除了博客和播客，我还建议人们在LinkedIn或Facebook上发声——如果是个人爱好，TikTok等社交平台也行。关键是养成分享行业见解、关注领域领袖的习惯。我们很早就发现了彼此，对吧？当时对会员制感兴趣的人本就不多。

Couple of other ways, you mentioned blogs, you mentioned podcast. I would also encourage people to start posting on LinkedIn or Facebook or any I mean, if it's more of a personal passion, TikTok or one of the other socials, but just getting in the habit of know your topic, share your hot takes, and follow the other leaders in the space. We found each other quite early. Right? There just weren't that many people that were interested in membership.

这些方式非常适合初步验证市场匹配度。但很快你就会进入实质性投入阶段：耗费真实时间、资金，雇佣人员，购置工具。若想启动会员制业务，预计需要怎样的基础设施、支持团队及预算？

And I think those things are a great way to get started in terms of market validation, product market fit. But then you start pretty quickly to get into real spend, spending real time, spending real money, hiring real people, buying real tools. What kind of infrastructure support staff budget should somebody expect to need if they're going to launch their own membership business?

说实话，对专家、影响力者和独创业者而言，2025年的今天初始投入并不大。回想2015年，软件解决方案寥寥无几且质量有限（无意冒犯当时的开发者）。当时这个市场需求不足，软件公司自然缺乏开发动力。如今已有大量经济便捷的入门选择。

Yeah. Honestly, for, again, experts, influencers, that solopreneur sort of space, it's not a huge outlay, especially now in 2025. Back in 2015, the options were minimal, and they were not very good with no disrespect to the people who were developing software and solutions back in 2015. But this wasn't a market for which there was much demand, and so there wasn't really much reason for software companies to create tools to serve this market. These days, there are so many options to get started in an affordable way, in a simple way.

即便你是技术小白，现有工具也能让你快速搭建具备完整功能的会员体系，启动成本仅需数百美元。可选择Kajabi、Podia等一体化平台；视频类会员可用YouScreen构建类似Netflix的宠物美容视频库——这些平台月费基本低于500美元，多数情况下不超过300美元。

Even if you are the biggest Luddite there is, most of the tools and software available, actually, you can be up and running with a membership that has all of the functionality, all the features you would need to get a good start for hundreds of dollars, under $500 to either sign up for one of the all in one platforms. So you have platforms like Kajabi, is a very popular one. Platforms like Podia, like YouScreen, so for video based memberships, so it's a little bit more of a video library. I know we kinda joked about the whole thing of more and more people want to be the Netflix of pet grooming and things like that. But if you are gonna have a model where it's video on demand, there's platforms like You screen, which enables you to have that kind of interface and app, and they are all kind of sub $500, in many cases, sub $300 a month.

点击几下即可上线运营。若有能力或资源雇佣开发人员，我推荐采用WordPress自托管方案（它支撑着当今大部分互联网），配合MemberPress等优秀插件——稍作安装设置，几小时内就能获得强大的会员管理工具套件。

And that is for a few clicks and you are up and running. If you have either the ability or the time or the resource to hire somebody as a developer to go down the self hosted route with WordPress would generally be the kind of engine that I would recommend. It powers the vast majority of the Internet now, and there are fantastic plugins like MemberPress. That's the one we tend to recommend. It's the one we use ourselves, which again, a little installation, a couple of hours of setup, and you have quite a powerful suite of membership tools at your disposal.

让客户能自助服务的工具，包括自行取消、暂停、恢复会员资格、升级、降级等所有这类功能，内置仪表盘和大量界面，年费大约300到400美元。因此技术的前期实际成本很低。当然，如果你想拥有世界上独一无二的功能，想要非常具体的功能组合，或者——

Tools that enable customers to self-service, canceling, pausing, resuming their own memberships, upgrading, downgrading, all of that kind of stuff, built in dashboards, a lot of the interface, and that's gonna run you 3 or $400 for an annual license. So the actual upfront costs for the technology are minimal. Now, of course, if you want a feature that nobody has in the world, if you want a really specific feature set, if you want

比如什么？能举个例子吗？

Like what? Give me an example, maybe.

好的。比如说你经营一个商业教练会员服务，希望新会员能自动与其他会员匹配，组成智囊团或学习小组之类。这是我临时想到的商业教练可能希望在会员服务中提供的功能——如果他们想建立同侪互助群体。这在技术上实现自动化很困难，但如果你告诉别人有软件能实现这个功能，那些经营商业教练或智囊团会员服务的人会抢着要。

Yeah. It may be. So let's just say you have a business coaching membership and you want the ability for members who come in to automatically be matched up with other members and put into mastermind groups or study groups or something like that. Again, just off the top of my head of knowing the kind of thing I know that a business coach might want in their membership, if they want to offer kind of peer groups and things like that. That's difficult to do automatically on a technical basis, but it would be the kind of thing that if you were to say to someone, hey, we can give you a piece of software that'll let you do that, they would snatch your hands off if they have a business coaching or a masterminding membership.

这类功能目前没有现成解决方案，需要定制开发。真正独特的高级功能可能要花费数万美元。尤其是移动应用——你会发现很少有个人专家或影响者为会员服务定制开发移动应用。多数都是基于网页的，当然网站都做了移动端优化。

That kind of thing, I'm not aware of anything that will do that off the shelf, so you need to have that custom developed. You're potentially looking then getting towards tens of thousands for real unique, real advanced functionality. Mobile apps in particular, that is one of the big things. You'll find that very few solopreneur experts influencers have custom developed mobile apps for their memberships. A lot of them are web based, and obviously you use their website and it's all mobile optimized.

但完全定制的独立应用，开发一个优质应用起价5万美元。对于刚起步的个人从业者来说难以承受。功能强大的应用甚至要六位数。很多初创会员网站的人误以为自己需要应用，实际上并不需要。

But an actual standalone app that is completely custom, the sort of cost involved with that, you're starting for a good app at 50,000. And for the average person starting out who is just a little one man band, that's going to be beyond their reach. For something that is actually powerful, you're getting up into 6 figures. So that is something that, again, a lot of people starting out doing this themselves who want a membership site think that they need an app. Truthfully, you don't.

有些年收入数千万的会员企业从未开发过定制应用。除非你像社交媒体公司那样不可或缺，否则用户很少会允许你的通知权限，更不会把你放在手机首页。你的应用最终会淹没在四五次滑动后的文件夹里被人遗忘。所以25万美元的应用投资可能毫无用处。这是许多单打独斗者误以为需要、实则可以省下的巨额开支。

There are membership businesses that have never had any sort of custom app that are making tens of millions of dollars and still haven't invested in creating an app because unless you're beyond compelling or you are one of the social media companies, very rarely will people allow your notifications. Very rarely will they put you on their front page of their mobile phone. So you're gonna get buried on the fourth or fifth swipe or in a folder, and they're going to forget about you. So your quarter of a million dollar app investment is just sitting there unused. So that's the kind of thing a lot of people who are just doing this on their own think that they need that would cost a fortune to get done right, that actually you can do a heck of a lot without that.

关键在于保持简单——会员制是长期商业模式，技术架构可以逐步完善。第一年不需要第十年的基础设施，技术可以从极简开始，不必追求面面俱到。

If you keep things simple, and I think this is what it comes to is memberships are a long term business model. The tech setup, the infrastructure can reflect that. You do not need your year 10 infrastructure in place for your first year. The tech can start really simple. You don't need every bell and whistle.

甚至不需要完全定制的网站设计。有些工具能以最小投资快速搭建平台，依然能成为成功的基石。

You don't need even a totally custom website design. There's tools that enable you to kind of get up and running a lot quicker with minimal investment and still create something that will be a great platform for building success on.

总结你刚才说的：大多数会员服务不需要太多定制功能，不需要移动应用，应该更关注客户真实需求而非追求与想象完美匹配的技术。

Yeah. I think the summary of what you just said is most memberships do not need a lot of customized features, do not need a mobile app, and should focus more on what customers are really asking for than on having the perfect technology to align with your imagination.

正是如此。初创时你只能依靠想象，要么猜测，要么模仿其他会员服务。只有真实用户使用并提供反馈后，你才会知道缺什么。你以为至关重要的功能、内容或网站版块可能无人问津，反而是某个随手添加的小创意让人疯狂。没有真实会员参与前，你永远无法预知这些。

And that is the thing because all you've got to go on when you're just starting out is your imagination. It's guesswork or it's looking at what other memberships you're part of are doing. You are only going to know whether something is missing from your setup once you have real people in there using it, providing feedback, and your customers will confound you. The thing, the feature, the type of content, the section of a website that you are convinced is the linchpin to your success will often turn out to be the thing nobody cares about, and it will be the simplest little idea or the simplest little afterthought that you put in there that people will go crazy for. You're never going to know this until you have real customers, real members utilizing it.

你从用户如何使用网站、消费内容等行为中获取数据，更重要的是获得反馈。他们直接告诉你需求与渴望。这些数据和反馈就是一切，是未来几十年推动会员制业务的核心动力。

You're getting data from how they use your website, what they're consuming, and more importantly, you're getting feedback. They're telling you what they need. They're telling you what they want. And data and feedback, they are everything. They are what is going to drive your membership business for decades.

但在那之前，这些都只存在于你和会员的想象中。

But until then, it's just what's in your head and your member.

没错。我认为这是个重要提醒——用最基础的WordPress站点搭配会员平台，就能打造相当不错的会员体系。另外要强调的是，每个人都觉得自己是特殊的。就像每位家长都认为自己的育儿经历独一无二。

Yeah. So I think this is an important admonishment for people to keep in mind and hopefully something that helps you relax and say, you can have a pretty good membership with a very basic WordPress site with either just using that or with any number of, membership based platforms. And I think one other point to just remind people is everybody thinks they're unique. Right? Every parent thinks their own parent child journey is unique.

每家公司都认为自己的企业文化、商业模式、客户需求乃至痛点都是独特的。常有人对我说'我们的客户讨厌推销'，但真相是——没人喜欢被推销。

Every company thinks their culture and their business model is unique. Every company thinks their customers are unique and what their needs are and what makes them mad is unique. People tell me all the time, our customers don't like to be pitched to. Well, guess what? Nobody likes to be pitched to.

人们需要的是能解决实际诉求的方案。记住，你现在做的很多事早有先例，前人已经总结出真正有效的方法。或许等到规模足够大时——就像你提到的——当客户反复提出特定需求时再定制化，但起步阶段务必从简。简单起步，持续学习，这才是关键。

People like to be offered a solution that actually reflects what they ask for and what they need. So keep that in mind that a lot of what you're doing has been done before, and somebody has figured out what you really need. And at some point, maybe when you're really big, as you mentioned, maybe over time as you discover a need that your customers keep asking about, maybe then it's time to customize, but start simple. Start simple and learn. I think that's the key message.

你们生态圈里是否有从小规模起步并成功扩张的案例？能否分享一两个对社群有启发性的成功故事？

Are there businesses in your ecosystem that you think have started small and scaled effectively? Maybe you can share an example or two of some successful journeys that might be instructive to the community.

当然。我最欣赏的案例是Scott Devine。这位英国贝斯手后来成为教育家，巧合的是他住处距我仅一小时车程。原本他满足于本地教学和乐队演出，直到被诊断出患局部肌张力障碍——这意味着他将逐渐丧失肢体知觉。

Yeah. Absolutely. I think one of my favorite all time people that we've seen come through the community is a guy by the name of Scott Devine. Scott is a bass guitar player and now educator here in The UK, about an hour away from me, just coincidentally. And he was perfectly happy making a living teaching students locally and playing in bands and occasionally in shows, and he just loved playing bass guitar.

面临可能永远无法弹奏贝斯的危机，毫无商业经验的他创建了YouTube频道，录制基础教学视频，想着'就算将来不能弹了，至少还能帮助别人'。

But he found out one day he had a condition called focal dystonia, which means he'll lose sensation in his extremities, and there was a real risk that even picking up a bass guitar, let alone playing it, let alone having a livelihood derived from teaching it, that could all go away. So Scott just kind of wanted to do something with his passion. Zero experience of business, like, literally none. But he figured out how to start a YouTube channel and just made some videos, just teaching some basic techniques, kinda figured, okay. When I can't play this, at least I'm helping other people.

他在简易WordPress网站放了PayPal捐赠按钮，写着'喜欢就赞助套琴弦吧'。免费内容很快带来每月两三千美元捐赠——人们太感激他的分享。这让他意识到商业潜力，于是创立了scottsbasslessons.com。

But he would put those videos. He set up a simple WordPress website, stuck a PayPal donation button. If you enjoy it, buy me a new set of strings or something like that, and very quickly got to a point where those donations were getting to, like, 2 or $3,000 per month for free content because people just so appreciated what he was putting out into the world. So you kind of figured, okay. Maybe there is something here that's potential for a business, and set about starting scottsbasslessons.com.

这个直白的域名正体现他的本色——他并非企业家出身。就像'罗比会员书'或'麦克会员播客'这种命名方式。我们帮他简单搭建会员体系后，如今已培养约120-130名学员。

Now that name itself tells you the type of person he was. He didn't come into this as an entrepreneur. It's literally just ScottsBassLessons. It could be like Robbie's membership book or mike's membershippodcast.com, even just that branding side of things. Started a membership, we worked with him, got him set up really simply, and has now, I think, had about a 120 or a 130 students come through that.

这是一项年收入八位数的生意。目前大约有8万到9万名活跃学员，但团队一直保持精简。据我所知，他的团队可能还不到10人。他现在有个小型拍摄场地，离住处只有几码远，但很长一段时间里，他都是在阁楼里拍摄的。

It's an 8 figure business annually. I think it's 80 to 90,000 active students right now, and it stayed lean. Like, his team, I think, is still kind of under 10. He still operates. I think he's got a little filming space now a few yards away from where he lives, but for the longest time, he would literally film in his attic.

他把阁楼改造成了拍摄空间。虽然部分技术设备有所升级，但核心教学内容始终简洁明了。制作水准提高了，但重点仍是满足学员需求、亲自参与社区互动，并保持人性化关怀——即使到现在已与Scott合作十二年，他仍在倾听、学习、调整和成长。与此同时，Fender等大公司已将订阅制纳入业务，推出免费会员课程Fender Play教授普通吉他和贝斯。虽然竞争对手增多，出现了更多大品牌，但他依然保持领先地位。

He turned that into a filming space. And his offering, while some of the tech has got a little bit fancier, but ultimately still what he's offering is straightforward. Production values have gone up, but it's still about the basics of serving his audience's needs, showing up himself within the community, and making sure the human side of things was there even, I think, twelve years on now with Scott, and still listening, still learning, still adapting, and still growing. In the meantime, big companies like Fender have adapted now the membership model into their offering, and they have Fender Play, which I believe is a free membership teaching regular guitar and bass guitar. So his competition has grown, gotten a lot more big brands in the space, but he's still out there ahead of the pack.

我认为他仍是全球最成功的贝斯教育订阅平台。很大程度上这仍是他个人的成就，加上少量外包人员。就像我说的，现在团队大概有9到10人。

Think he's still the most successful bass guitar education membership in the world. And for a lot of that, it's still been it's just been him. Him and a few people outsourced too, and now, like I said, I think he's got maybe nine or 10 people on his team now.

哇，真是个成功的典范。专注力、人际连接和需求响应都非常关键。还有其他关于人们如何扩大规模并决定加大投入的案例吗？

Wow. That's a great success story. And the focus and the connection with people and following demand, I think, are all really important. Are there other examples of how people have scaled and decided now is the time to invest more?

有的。与Scott的故事形成对比的是——Scott的业务规模和收入扩大了，但运营核心仍是那个想教贝斯的个人。在音乐领域有个叫Musora的公司，由不列颠哥伦比亚省的Jared Falk创立，最初和Scott类似是个免费架子鼓教学网站，但发展路径截然不同。他们在鼓乐领域取得成功后，几乎原样复制了Drummeo.com的订阅模式，将其应用于钢琴教育。

Yeah. So again, to kind of contrast Scott's story where I think, Scott, the business has scaled, the revenue, the numbers have scaled, but the operation has still been it's one guy who wants to teach bass guitar. To contrast that in the music space, there's a company called Musora founded by Jared Falk out in British Columbia, and that started with similarly to Scott, it was a free site teaching drum lessons, but it's gone in a very different direction. So they became very successful in the drumming space, and what they have then done is pretty much literally replicate the model that they used for the drum membership, drummeo.com, into piano education.

这很有趣。

That's interesting.

没错。他们采用这个模式，在工作中复制一切作为起点。显然，他们随后发现在钢琴市场奏效的策略在鼓类市场未必适用，因此他们在保持同一品牌下作为独立实体进行调整和进化。接着他们又将这套模式引入吉他领域，创立了Guitario（我想是叫这个名字）。

Yeah. They took the model, they duplicated everything at work as a starting point. Obviously, they then learned things that worked within the piano market, that didn't work within the drum market, so they adapt and evolve as a separate entity still under their umbrella. And then they took that and brought it into the guitar space with Guitario. I think it's called Guitario.

同样操作：沿用框架和策略进行复制，从新市场汲取经验并调整，在声乐教学和歌唱领域也如法炮制。这与Scott形成鲜明对比——后者像橡果般自然生长，而Jared则始终秉持企业家思维。有次交谈时他说，虽然以鼓手身份创建了鼓乐教学网站，但他自认并非顶尖鼓手（可能有些谦虚），其教练团队里确有大师级鼓手，但他首先视自己为企业家，其次才是经营事业的音乐人。

Did the same thing. Took the framework, took the strategy, replicated, learned more from that market, adapted, and they did the same thing within the vocal coaching, within the singing space as well. So now, again, as a contrast to Scott, which is just kind of going acorn, just growing at the tree, Jared and his approach has been entrepreneurial. I'm having conversations with Jared where he's like, he started the drumming website because he is a drummer, but he's not a great drummer. Maybe being a little modest, but he has great drummers on his roster of coaches, but he sees himself as an entrepreneur first rather than a musician who happens to be running a business.

这种成功模式在音乐教育各垂直领域的复制，最终构建出覆盖几乎所有乐器的教育品牌Musara。我毫不怀疑他会持续拓展这套模式。业务确实在规模化增长，虽然他没提过是否以出售企业为终极目标，但从他多年来的实践和言谈判断，这似乎并非他的追求。

So that kind of replication of a model that is working across different verticals within the music space to create essentially the educational brand, Musara, for pretty much every instrument. I've got no doubt he will keep expanding and keep reproducing this model. And, yeah, the business is scaling. The business is growing. Whether or not an exit is the end goal is not something he's talked about, but for the length of time he's been doing it, for the way in which he's spoken in conversations, it doesn't seem like that's what he's shooting for.

他更倾向于实现行业统治——因为吉他会员项目不需要他亲自当专家，声乐会员项目也不需要（他对这些领域本就不精通），但他掌握了核心策略，只需任用合适人才并统筹全局。不过他仍在鼓乐会员项目中亲自授课，毕竟这是他的专长。这两个案例的对比总是令我着迷：几乎相同的起点、年龄层和性格，但战略思维和规模化路径的差异，完美展现了 solo创业者光谱的两极。

He's kinda just shooting for industry domination because he doesn't have to be the expert in the guitar membership. He doesn't have to be the expert in the singing membership because he doesn't know anything about those, but he's now got that strategy and that he he can just implement the right people, and he just oversees the whole lot. And he still does drum lessons in his drumming membership because that's his wheelhouse. So I always found them a very interesting contrast, very same start, same kind of age range, same kind of personality, but their approach from a strategy point of view and a scaling point of view, I think show the different ends of the spectrum for solopreneurs.

确实。这非常有趣。我的意思是，看起来一方非常专注于某个专业领域，并随时间扩展为该群体提供的服务，而另一方则是采用一个模式，并添加新的细分领域来服务。如果我能服务鼓手学生，我也可以用同样的公式和结构服务声乐学生或钢琴学生。这实际上就是企业增长的两种方式，对吧，要么为同一群人做更多事，要么为更多人做同样的事。

Yeah. It's really interesting. I mean, seems like one is very focused on that area of expertise and expanding what they do for that group over time, whereas the other one is about taking a model and adding new segments to serve. If I can serve drum students, I can also serve singing students or piano students using the same formula and structure. And those are really the two ways to grow business, right, is do more for the same people or do the same for more people.

对吧？这是一个2x2矩阵，一边是老受众、新受众，另一边是老产品、新产品。世界上最难的是新产品面向新受众。对吧？

Right? It's a two by two matrix, and one side is old audience, new audience. The other side is old offering, new offering. And the hardest in the world is new offering, new audience. Right?

别那么做。你提到的另一点是退出。我们刚在播客上采访了一位嘉宾Dave Wharton，他是长期非常成功的风险投资人，现在经营Tugboat Institute，完全专注于紧密持股的私营企业。那么如果你是一位企业家，你不想退出，不想出售你的企业，你该怎么办？

Don't do that. The other thing that you brought up here is exits. And we just had a guest on the podcast, Dave Wharton, longtime very successful venture investor who now runs the Tugboat Institute, which is completely focused on closely held businesses, private companies. So what do you do if you're an entrepreneur and you don't want to exit? You don't want to sell your business.

你想继续经营它。我认为很多人——你可以告诉我你是否同意——很多人选择这种会员模式是因为他们对此充满热情，而不是为了快速赚钱，说实话，这可能是快速赚钱最糟糕的方式之一。

You want to keep running it. I think a lot of people, and you can tell me if you agree or disagree, a lot of people get into this kind of membership model because they're passionate about it, not because they're trying to make a quick buck, which honestly, it's maybe one of the worst ways to make a quick buck.

这是一种非常、非常缓慢的赚钱方式。不，绝对是在我们的社区里，比如会员学院的大多数人，他们是生活方式驱动的企业家。他们重视自主权，重视目标，重视影响力，我不会说超过增长，但肯定超过激进增长、快速增长或大规模退出。他们不追求那些。我们总是谈论四个F：自由（Freedom）、灵活性（Flexibility）、成就感（Fulfillment）和财务（Financial）。

It's a very, very slow buck. No, and definitely within our communities, like most people in the Membership Academy, they are lifestyle driven entrepreneurs. They value autonomy, they value purpose, they value impact over, I wouldn't say over growth, but certainly over aggressive growth or fast growth or huge exits. They are not aiming for that. They are looking for we always talk about the four f's, freedom, flexibility, fulfillment, and the financial.

我认为我不会说这是对财务的减少，而是将其与生活方式元素放在同等地位。很多人，如果你是专家或影响者，我们显然有很多不同的变现途径。我们可以咨询，可以用时间换钱，但这可能导致倦怠，可能是饥一顿饱一顿。

And I think that I wouldn't say it's a reduction of the financial, but it's putting it on par with the lifestyle elements. A lot of people who if you're an expert or if you're an influencer, we obviously have so many different routes to monetizing. We can consult. We can trade our time for money, but that can lead to burnout. That can be feast famine.

我们可以销售各种不同类型的产品，比如数字产品，但很多是不可持续的。我认为现在很多以信息产品为中心的企业家因为AI的崛起而有点恐慌。你可以出版一本书，但要突破到一个盈利点，而不仅仅是一个敲门砖或起点，真的非常非常难。在大舞台上演讲，你知道要达到那个位置有多难。你不会只是出现然后说，嘿。

There's all sorts of different kind of products that we can sell, digital products, but many are not sustainable. And I think a lot of information product focused entrepreneurs right now are in a bit of a panicked state because of the rise of AI. You can publish a book, but that can be really, really hard to break through to a place where it's profitable, where it's more than a door opener or a starting point to other opportunities. Speaking on big stages, you know how hard it is to get to that place. You don't just turn up and say, hey.

我能上去讲二十分钟吗？这是一个非常、非常小的空间，很难打入。因此，拥有一个更可预测、更稳定的商业模式，能提供更多灵活性，不那么紧张和高压力，不会让你精疲力尽。对吧？

Can Can I just hop on there for twenty minutes? It's a very, very small space to try and break into. And so having a business model that actually is more predictable, is more stable, it affords more flexibility. It's not so intense and so high pressure that you're gonna burn out. Right?

所有这些对很多人来说比财务更有吸引力。有些人只是希望达到一个不需要为财务担忧的状态。对很多人来说，根据你的生活方式，这并不意味着数百万美元。有些人只是想要多一点，或者只是希望能在下午5点下班，不需要担心工作。或者我们的一位会员Mark Warner，他在英国为教师运营一个会员服务，叫做teachingpacks.co.uk。

All of these kind of things are so so appealing, more so for many people than the financial. Some people just want to be able to get to a financial situation where they don't need to stress. And for a lot of people, depending on your lifestyle, that is not millions of dollars. Some people just want a little bit more or they just want to be able to clock off at 5PM and not need to worry about work. Or one of our members, a guy called Mark Warner, he runs a membership for teachers here in The UK, and it's called teachingpacks.co.uk.

他们实际上只是销售预先制作的打印材料包，比如涂色纸、练习纸，适用于早期学校的工具包。他们已经运营了大约15年，他认为自己真正成功的标志是能够在不担心的情况下抽出时间带孩子去迪士尼乐园。这是一个正在增长的业务，有数万名会员，赚了很多钱，但在系统、他的心态和稳定性方面还没有完全达到可以轻松做到这一点的程度，但能够做到这一点对他来说就是，这就是我。我现在很开心。这就是我想要的全部。

They literally just sell bundles of pre made printouts, kind of coloring in sheets, exercise sheets for early stage school kits. And they've been running for maybe about fifteen years now, and his marker for really what he thought others when I hit here, I'll make I've made it, It's being able to take time away from his business without stressing to take his kids to Disneyland. This was a it was a business that was growing, like tens of thousands of members were making a lot of money, but it wasn't quite there yet in terms of the systems, in terms of his mindset, in terms of stability for him to do that, but him being able to do that was kind of, this is me. I'm happy now. This is all I wanna be able to do.

尽管许多人渴望那种重大的退出，但我认为更多专家、意见领袖和个体创业者尤其受到生活方式因素的驱动。能够与志同道合的人一起从事热爱的工作，从中获得的满足感、快乐和能量对很多人来说就已足够。所以，在我接触的世界里，大多数人甚至不考虑退出这个话题。我能想到的可能只有少数人出售过他们的会员业务，比如瑜伽领域的一位，但她后来又在一个不同领域创办了新的会员业务，因为她有点怀念那种感觉。所以她并非受经济利益驱使。

And for as many people who want that big exit, I think there are more particularly experts and influencers and solopreneurs who are more driven by lifestyle factors And by being able to do work that they love with their people, fulfillment and the joy and the energy that can come from that is enough for a lot of people. So, yeah, most people coming through my corner of the world, they're not even thinking about exits. It's not a topic that comes up very much. I can think of maybe a handful who have gone on to sell their memberships, one in particular in the yoga space, but she went on and started another membership in a different area because she kinda missed it. So she wasn't driven by the financial.

她追求的是那种生活方式，那种自由、灵活性和满足感，这是大多数个体创业者无法从其他商业模式中获得的。

She was driven by that lifestyle, by the freedom, the flexibility, and the fulfillment that it gives that most solopreneurs cannot find from other types of business models.

是的。很有趣的是，有些企业——而且越来越多——它们存在的意义就是赋予创业者意义、创造影响力、支持他们的生活方式并拥有控制权。许多企业家会说：如果我卖掉它，我还能做什么？我热爱这份事业。所以我很感谢你分享关于会员们的见解，以及他们为何如此投入。

Yeah. It's really interesting that there are some businesses and increasingly more businesses that just they wanna have the business to give them meaning, to create impact, to support their lifestyle, and to have control. And so many entrepreneurs say, Well, what would I do if I sold it? I love doing this. So I appreciate your sharing about your members and how so many of them are so dedicated.

我喜欢你的'四个F'理论，太棒了。我们时间快到了，因为有太多话题要聊。

And I like your four F's. That's great. We're almost out of time because we have so many things to talk about.

对我来说时间过得飞快。

That flew over for me.

确实飞逝。我们讨论了很多我认为非常重要且对听众有启发性的主题。不过在结束前，我想来个快速问答环节。你有一分钟时间吗？

It flew. The time flew by. We covered a lot of different topics that I think are really important and hopefully instructive for our listeners. Before I let you go, though, I would love to do a speed round. Do you have a minute for that?

你准备好了吗？

Are you up for it?

我可能需要再喝口咖啡。如果要加速的话，得补充点咖啡因才行。

I may need to take another sip of coffee. If we're going fast, need a little more caffeine.

好的，开始吧。你人生第一个订阅服务是什么？

Okay, here we go. First subscription you ever had.

哇，应该是某个网络游戏。我是个超级游戏迷——基于《黑客帝国》电影的大型多人在线角色扮演游戏《黑客帝国Online》，这是我记忆中第一个订阅服务。没错。

Oh, wow. It would be for an online game. I'm a big nerd, massively multiplayer online role playing game centered around the matrix movies. The matrix online was the first subscription I remember having. Yes.

我想是2005年。

2,005, I think.

你个人目前最喜欢的会员服务是什么？

Your favorite membership that you personally use today?

哦，我之前提到的Drumeo会员。是的，我真的很喜欢这个会员服务。Drumeo.com的客户旅程、会员旅程、教育旅程设计得非常出色。他们的教育材料很棒，讲师也非常优秀。

Oh, I am a member of Drumeo that I mentioned before. And, yes, I really like that membership. Drumeo.com, their customer journey, the member journey, the educational journey is just so well designed. Their education material is great, and the instructors are fantastic.

除了会员服务，你最喜欢钻研什么？

Besides membership, your favorite thing to geek out on?

乐高。如果我能顺便创建一个乐高建造者会员服务，我会非常开心。我会退休然后专门做这个。我手臂上有一个乐高积木的纹身，我对此非常着迷。

Lego. If I can create a Lego Builders membership on the side, I would be a happy man. I would retire and just do that. I have a tattoo of a Lego brick on my arm. I'm obsessed.

你得发一张乐高纹身的照片给我，我可以放在博客里。好了，最后一个问题。关于会员制的未来，你有什么预测？我们接下来会走向何方？

You'll have to send me a picture of the Lego tattoo so I can put it in the blog. Okay, and last question. One prediction about the future of membership. Where are we going from here?

我认为人性化的一面将会呈指数级放大。可能再过一年左右，人们就能去大型语言模型那里说，我想学这个。为我创建一个课程，用所有会员服务和在线课程都在使用的UX和界面，这就会实现。所以我认为信息将会更加退居二线，而转向人性化的转变。那些优先考虑个人化接触、量身定制体验的会员服务将会蓬勃发展。

I think the human side is going to become amplified exponentially. I think we're maybe only a year or so away from someone being able to go to an LLM and say, I want to learn this thing. Create a course for me in a UX, in an interface that all of the memberships and online courses are using, and it will happen. So I think information is going to take even more of a backseat to transformation into the human element. And the memberships that prioritize the personal touch, tailoring their their experience are the ones that are going to thrive.

太棒了。迈克·莫里森，非常感谢你参加《订阅故事》。

Amazing. Mike Morrison, thank you so much for being on Subscription Stories.

非常荣幸。谢谢邀请我。

Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

刚才和我们对话的是迈克·莫里森，会员学院的创始人和《会员极客》播客的主持人。想了解更多关于迈克的信息，请访问membershipgeeks.com。想了解更多关于《订阅故事》以及我与迈克对话的文字记录，请访问robbiekelmanbaxter.com/podcast。另外，有个请求。如果你喜欢听到的内容，请花一分钟时间到Apple Podcasts或Apple iTunes上留下评论。

That was Mike Morrison, founder of the Membership Academy and host of the Membership Geeks podcast. For more about Mike, go to membershipgeeks.com. And for more about subscription stories as well as a transcript of my conversation with Mike, go to robbiekelmanbaxter.com/podcast. Also, have a favor to ask. If you like what you heard, please take a minute to go over to Apple Podcasts or Apple iTunes and leave a review.

如果你特别喜欢这一集，请提及迈克和本集内容。听众们正是通过评价发现我们的播客，我们真心感激每一条反馈。感谢你的支持，也感谢收听《订阅故事》。

Mention Mike and this episode if you especially enjoyed it. Reviews are how listeners find our podcast, and we really appreciate each one. Thanks for your support, and thanks for listening to Subscription Stories.