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本节目由赞助播出：经营企业本就不易，何必再用十几个互不相通的应用程序让事情变得更复杂？
Support for this show comes from Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other?
隆重介绍Odoo。
Introducing Odoo.
这是您唯一需要的商业软件。
It's the only business software you'll ever need.
这是一个全功能一体化平台，能让您的工作更轻松。
It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.
涵盖客户关系管理、财务、库存、电子商务等众多功能。
CRM, accounting, inventory, ecommerce, and more.
最棒的部分是什么？
And the best part?
Odoo能以极低成本替代多个昂贵平台。
Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.
这就是为什么已有数千家企业选择转型。
That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.
您还在等什么呢？
So why not you?
免费试用Odoo，请访问odoo.com。
Try Odoo for free at odoo.com.
网址是0d00.com。
That's 0d00.com.
欢迎收听《流行音乐解码》节目。
Welcome to Switched on pop.
我是音乐学家内特·斯隆。
I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.
当泰勒·斯威夫特发布她的歌曲《The Tortured Poets Department》时，其中有一句歌词出乎所有人意料。
When Taylor Swift released her song, The Tortured Poets Department, it had a line that few saw coming.
你抽了八七根巧克力棒。
You smoked then eight, seven bars of chocolate.
我们宣称查理·普斯应该成为更知名的艺人。
We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist.
我们宣称查理·普斯应该成为更知名的艺人——而听到这句话最惊讶的莫过于查理·普斯本人。这位集歌手、钢琴家和词曲作者于一身的人物，职业生涯始终游走在流行巨星与幕后匿名创作者之间。
We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist, and no one was more surprised to hear this than Charlie Puth himself, the singer, pianist, and songwriter whose career has always straddled pop stardom and behind the scenes anonymity.
就连他2015年与维兹·卡利法合作的爆红单曲《See You Again》，原本也没打算由他献声。
Even his breakout track, twenty fifteen's See You Again with Wiz Khalifa wasn't supposed to feature his voice.
他创作这首歌时本打算让其他人演唱，比如萨姆·史密斯或克里斯·布朗。
He wrote the song intending for someone else to perform it, like Sam Smith or Chris Brown.
但最终他的嗓音被选中，这首歌登上了《速度与激情7》原声带并风靡全球。
But in the end, his vocals were chosen, and the song landed on the soundtrack to Furious seven and became a worldwide hit.
我们已走出最初的迷茫
We've come a long way from where we began.
待重逢时再与你细讲
Oh, I'll tell you all about it when I see you again.
待重逢时
When I see you again.
但正是这首热单催生了他的首张专辑《Nine Track Mind》，以及更多如他与赛琳娜·戈麦斯合唱的《We Don't Talk Anymore》这样令人过耳难忘的流行佳作。
But that hit led to his first album, nine track mind, and more inescapable bops like his duet with Selena Gomez, We Don't Talk Anymore.
他的下一张专辑《语音笔记》深入挖掘了Puth更深层次的音乐影响，其中与Boyz II Men的合作打造了流行热单《Attention》。
His next album, Voice Notes, dug into Puth's deeper influences featuring a collaboration with Boys two Men and producing a switched on pop favorite, Attention.
他最近的专辑《Charlie》在《Light Switch》等动感曲目中探索了更为极繁主义的音乐质感。
His most recent album, Charlie, dove into more maximalist textures on driving tracks like Light Switch.
即便在创作个人音乐的同时，Puth仍持续为Jason Derulo、Katy Perry和小演员Leroy等艺人打造热门单曲。
Even while he was making his own music, Puth continued writing for other artists, crafting bops for the likes of Jason Derulo, Katy Perry, and the kid Leroy.
与此同时，他以完美音感和录音室魔法师的形象打造网络人设，能在几分钟内将随机声音转化为完整作品。
At the same time, he created an online persona based around his gleeful music nerdery using his perfect pitch and studio wizardry to turn random sounds into full fledged compositions in a matter of minutes.
2024年，Puth与韩国流行组合Stray Kids合作单曲《Lose My Breath》忙得不可开交，但原本并无个人音乐发行计划——直到泰勒·斯威夫特意外点名。
In 2024, Puth has been busier than ever collaborating most recently with the k pop group Stray Kids on the song Lose My Breath, but he wasn't planning to release his own music until Taylor Swift made her unexpected shout out.
在斯威夫特的公开喊话后，Charlie决定提前发布新专辑首支单曲《Hero》，这首歌用原声吉他和低沉人声讲述艰难对话与谨慎希望的故事。
With Swift's declaration ringing in his ears, Charlie decided to drop the first single from his next album, a track called Hero that uses acoustic guitars and hushed vocals to generate a narrative around hard conversations and cautious hope.
这首歌与资深制作人John Byron、Jay Cash及吉他手Jack Rashaan共同创作，标志着Puth的新音乐方向，也让他决心证明斯威夫特的评价。
Written with veteran hit makers John Byron, Jay Cash, and guitarist Jack Rashaan, the song takes Puth in a new direction and finds him ready to make good on Swift's claim.
我在好莱坞康威录音室与Charlie进行了专访，讨论这首新歌。
I sat down with Charlie at Conway Studios in Hollywood to discuss the new track.
抵达时，他正坐在钢琴前，Pro Tools里调出了《Hero》所有分轨音频。
And when I got there, he was sitting in front of a piano and had all the isolated stems of Hero pulled up in Pro Tools.
他做的第一件事就是为我们演奏了一段开场音乐。
And the first thing he did was provide us with some intro music.
Charlie Puth，欢迎来到《流行解码》节目。
Charlie Puth, welcome to Switched on Pop.
感谢你演奏了我们标志性的开场旋律。
Thank you for playing our traditional opening music.
那是
That is
你的主题音乐。
your theme music.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
还是升F调？
Or is it in f sharp?
我不知道。
I no.
是的。
It is.
我是说，我们有时会降调演奏。
I mean, we we down pitch it sometimes.
感谢你花时间学习它。
I appreciate you taking the time to learn it.
你想象这是你的主题曲。
You imagined this was your theme song.
我
I
我们这期节目就用这个开场。
we're gonna to start this episode with that.
听起来像德古拉的巢穴。
Sounds like Dracula's lair.
这下我们的音乐学可信度全没了。
And there goes all of our musicological credibility.
其实还挺时髦的。
That's actually pretty hip.
我觉得我们找到些门道了。
I feel like we got something there.
这有点像Roy Ayers的风格。
That's like a Roy Ayers.
哦，没错。
Oh, yeah.
我们住在布鲁克林，宝贝。
We live in Brooklyn, baby.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
Bushwick Bill。
Bushwick Bill.
Charlie Puth，我们非常高兴你能来《Switch on Pop》节目。
Charlie Puth, we are so happy to have you on Switch on Pop.
我非常非常高兴能来到这里。
I'm very, very happy to be here.
谢谢邀请。
Thank you for having me.
这是期待已久的时刻。
This is a long time coming.
我觉得如果我们列一张梦想嘉宾名单，那些对音乐充满热忱的人，你肯定名列前茅。
I feel like if we drew up a chart of dream guests who we understand have a proclivity for musical nerdery, I think you'd be somewhere at the top of that.
你有一首新歌。
You have a new song.
歌名叫《英雄》。
It's called Hero.
是的。
Yeah.
《英雄》。
Hero.
我们能听听副歌部分吗？
Can we listen to the chorus?
好的。
Yeah.
这是歌曲的hook部分。
Here's the hook.
哦，太棒了。
Oh, yeah.
天哪。
Oh my.
真是让人耳目一新。
Breath of fresh air.
那里没什么特别的事情发生。
There's not a whole lot going on there.
是啊。
Yeah.
我们会深入探讨，直到彻底剖析清楚为止。
And we're gonna get into all we're gonna flog it to death.
对。
Yeah.
完美。
Perfect.
我可以随时调出我那糟糕的CP70音色，满足你任何音乐参考需求。
I could I have my my terrible CP 70 sound ready to pull up any musical reference you may need.
嗯，我想先从标题《英雄》开始。
Well, I'd I'd like to just start with the title, Hero.
听到这个标题时，你可能会想，哦，好吧。
I think you hear that title, and you're like, oh, okay.
这会是恩里克·伊格莱西亚斯那种风格。
This is gonna be like Enrique Iglesias.
对吧？
Right?
我可以成为你的英雄。
I can be your hero.
实际上恰恰相反。
It's actually the opposite.
确实如此。
It really is.
我想在第一次听和第一次看标题时，大概是这样。
I guess on first listen and first watch, I guess, of the title Yeah.
你会想，哦，英雄。
You'd think, oh, hero.
里面肯定会有天使合唱团的歌曲。
There's gonna definitely be an angel pad choir song in there somewhere.
但从歌词来看，它有点相反。
But lyrically, it's kind of, the opposite.
它讲的是接近一个可能有点自欺欺人的人。
It's kind of, about, approaching someone who may be in a little bit of denial.
是啊。
Yeah.
就像你可能曾经非常亲近的人，他们渐渐疏远，分道扬镳，你看着他们在某种程度上堕落，养成坏习惯，和不好的人混在一起，对自己也不好，而当你伸出援手时，他们会说，我不需要你的帮助。
Like you might have been like very close with and, they kind of drift away and go their separate ways and you see them kind of deteriorating in a way, doing, you know, bad habits, being around bad people, not being real nice to themselves and then when you reach out to them, they're like, I don't need your help.
我不需要，你知道的，现在不需要有人来对我说教，也就是我不需要英雄，这句话曾经有人对我说过，我一直想，哦，我要写一首在音乐性上听起来像天使的歌，但内容却很深刻。
I don't need, you know, someone to preach to me right now, aka I don't need a hero, which was a sentence that was said to me once and I always thought, oh, I'll write a song that sounds angelic in a way in its musicality, but is kind of deep deep.
它很深，兄弟。
It's deep, bro.
歌词上更密集一些。
It's a it's a little more dense lyrically.
是啊。
Yeah.
这是个拒绝。
There's a no.
我我我完全能听出音乐和歌词之间存在着某种程度的张力。
I I I totally hear there's a tension between the music and the lyrics to a degree.
实际上这首歌里有很多紧张感。
There's a lot of tensions in this song actually.
是啊。
Yeah.
嗯，这首歌最棒的地方在于它足够简单，每个人都能把自己的个人经历投射进去。
Well, the the great thing about this is it's it's simple enough where everybody can kind of put their own personal experience into into it.
它的歌词非常具体，但又不至于具体到让人觉得'哦这只会发生在查理身上，只有查理才懂'。
It's it's hyper specific lyricism, but it's not like so specific that people are like, oh, this only happened to Charlie and Charlie only.
没错。
Yeah.
让我们从头开始。
Let's start at the beginning.
这首歌最先听到的是什么？
What's the first thing we hear in this track?
开头是这样的。
Starts off with this.
吉他手杰克先弹了一段然后突然停下，只保留了一小段...哦，很酷。
Which is a guitarist named Jack just playing And then cutting it off, just taking a little bit Oh, cool.
然后直接加上Valhalla混响效果（不是用Ascend插件），直接插入轨道，把释放时间调到四五秒左右，让它就这样慢慢消散
And putting the Valhalla on the not using Ascend, just putting it right on the insert, making the release time about, like, four or five seconds and just letting it kinda just dissipate, like
我超爱这个。
I love that.
是啊。
Yeah.
我都没意识到那是吉他。
I didn't I didn't even realize that was guitar.
对。
Yeah.
它有点用曼陀林的方式演奏。
It's a it it kinda played, in a mandolin kinda way.
带点颤音效果。
It was a little tremolo.
没错。
Yeah.
加点颤音是因为我不想用其他效果。
A little tremolo because I didn't wanna use any.
我觉得在这首歌里用吊镲很违和。
I felt very wrong in the song to use a crash cymbal.
就像你不会想让707音色突然炸响。
It's like you don't wanna have like a seven zero seven just blaring loudly.
那样会显得粗俗又不协调。
It just feels like crass and and wrong.
所以最后那段某种程度上算是吊镲效果，因为结尾处吉他声部就进来了。
So I guess the tail end of that is kind of a crash cymbal in a way because when the moment you hear the end of that, the guitar part comes in.
所以你有了那个吉他，它可以说是推动一切的核心力量。
So you have that, the guitar which is kind of the driving the driving force of it all.
告诉我如果我弹奏它，听起来是否依然悦耳。
And tell me if I'm playing it too, it still sounds good.
不错。
Nice.
我对声音的表现方式非常着迷。
I'm obsessed with the way things sound.
下面是我的Rhodes钢琴，我记得型号是87或88。
Under that is my Rhodes, I think it's called eighty seven eighty eight.
它带有Juno特有的合唱效果。
And it has the Juno specific chorus on it.
小磁带通过Neve调音台播放。
Little tapests running through a Neve.
像是切分过的低频，或者50赫兹以下的频段，和它们搭配起来效果不错。
Like chopped like a little bit of bass or like up to 50 under it and it kinda goes well with them.
然后是一首歌。
And there's a song.
你知道需要付出什么吗？
Do you know what it takes?
我当时就想要，但不想完全复制，我不希望这段由贝斯手来演奏。
I want it I was like, I don't wanna copy that, but I want that I don't want it to be a bass player playing this part.
我想要的是他们那种演奏模式。
I want it to be, like, the mode that they're doing.
所以这只是我和曼尼让它稍微深入了一点。
So I just it's mine's little me and Manny made it a little bit deeper.
这几乎像是95年到2000年间的基准线，就像，我叫查理。
Was it's almost like a 95, two thousands kind of baseline against these it's like, my name is Charlie.
我当时觉得，这听起来有点老套，但当你把吉他加在上面时。
And I was like, it's like it's like kinda corny sounding like that, but then when you put the guitar on top of it.
现在这就像是男孩天才菲比那种感觉，是的。
Now it's like this boy genius Phoebe kind of thing Yeah.
我确实曾跪拜这种风格，深受他们启发，而且总要在歌里加入厚重的鼓点。
Which I definitely was, like, kneeling towards when I very inspired by them and always have to have fat kicks in my songs.
但这首的鼓点有点闷，因为我不想让它太突出，我真的很想让歌词站出来，我们稍后肯定会讲到这些。
But this one's a little muffled because I didn't want it to be about I I really wanted the lyrics to, like, stand out, and we'll definitely get to those.
关于这些鼓点的问题是，它们单独听起来有点糟糕。
But the thing about these drums is that they kinda sound kinda shitty on their own.
就像
Like
是的。
Yeah.
确实。
They do.
它们听起来很差。
They sound bad.
但当你把它和所有东西——贝斯、轻快的踩镲、键盘——组合在一起时。
But when you put it together with everything and the bass and the little flutter, hi hats, the keys.
听起来就像，哦，可能有人真的把这段录音当作乐队演奏的。
It all starts to sound like, oh, that might someone actually might have recorded that as a band.
但其实不是，它是在网格上的。
But no, it's on the grid.
但当你把所有元素一起演奏时，听起来就像一个配合默契的乐队。
But like I you play everything all together, it sounds like a cohesive kind of band.
那是在酒店里录制的。
That's recorded in a hotel.
而我做的只是简单地叠加了一遍。
And all I did was just double it.
加了一点延迟效果。
Little bit of delay.
这是正在发生的混响效果。
This is the reverb that's happening.
有种房间般的空间感。
It's like a roomy kind of thing.
因为我希望它听起来像是有人在客厅里为十几位密友表演。
Because I wanted it to sound like someone was, like, performing it in their living room for, like, 10 close friends.
所以这是种非常亲密的听觉体验。
So it's, a very intimate sounding kind of thing.
这如何支撑歌曲的歌词主题？
How does that support the the lyrical message of the song?
我希望它能营造出'过来这里'的感觉。
I wanted it to, like, feel like, come here.
我我我想...我想，就是，我得进行一次不太舒服的谈话。
I I I wanna I wanna, like like, I I have to have, like, kind of an uncomfortable conversation Yeah.
和你。
With you.
就是，你最近有点搞砸了，但我想作为朋友支持你。
Like, you're, like, messing up, and I wanna be there for you as a friend.
我不会说我想...
And I'm not gonna say, I wanna be
支持你。
there for you.
哦。
Oh.
感觉不太对劲，我想停下来装作若无其事。
It just doesn't like it's gonna be, I wanna stop by and play it cool.
你房间里这么多人很难说话。
It's hard to talk with all these people in your room.
我试图用眼神暗示，让你跟我到泳池边。
I try to lock eyes and give you clues so you can come and follow me out to the pool.
我觉得泰勒公开提到我的时候我特别兴奋的一个原因是...
I think one of the reasons why I got like really excited when Taylor had shouted me out Yeah.
真的写了我名字。
Literally wrote my name Yeah.
在她的歌里。
Into in her song.
我
I
在那件事发生前三周左右创作了这首歌。
had made this song like three weeks before that had happened.
当时我对此有些不确定。
And I was kind of unsure about this.
比如，人们会想听我唱这个吗？
Like, do people wanna hear this from me?
还是他们只想听那种直接上口的流行热单，适合所有人听的？
Or do they wanna just like have the straightaway pop banger that everybody can listen to?
这没问题，但我希望歌词能更具体些。
Which is fine, but I wanted to get a little more specific lyrically.
而她绝对是这方面最厉害的人之一——如果不是最厉害的话——怎么能把'茶壶'和'巴拉巴拉'押韵得这么绝？
And she's definitely like one of the best at that, if not the best at just overly like like how does how is she making tea kettle rhyme with blah blah blah?
就现在来看，这简直是天才之作。
Like right now, it's it's it's genius.
当她公开提到我时，这确实给了我灵感。
But I was definitely inspired by that when she shouted me out.
我当时就想，或许该发一首稍微借鉴这种模式的歌。
I was like, I should probably put the song out that kind of does that takes that formula a little bit.
嗯，我觉得你确实能听出这种影响。
Well, you I feel like you can hear that.
特别是当我们抽离并分解这些不同元素时，会发现这首歌有一半是泰勒·斯威夫特式的创作型歌手风格，以吉他驱动的民谣。
And especially when we take away and isolate these different elements, it's like half of the song is this Taylor Swiftian singer songwriter, guitar driven ballad.
而另一半则是这些更具数字化、甚至带点时髦的元素，你会联想到
And the other half are these more digital, even funky elements that you might associate with a
稍微有点吧。
Slightly yeah.
像是
Like
典型的查理·普斯制作风格之类的。
Typical Charlie Puth production or something.
所以如果只有吉他和人声的话会是这样的。
So here's it if it was just just the guitar and the vocals.
就像咖啡馆的氛围。
Like coffee house vibes.
对吧。
Right.
没错。
Right.
我们正身处
We're in
咖啡馆里。
the coffee house.
是啊。
Yeah.
不过
But
当你把所有东西加起来
when you add all the
好的
Okay.
现在有点那个意思了
Now it's getting a little yeah.
我们开始有点进入俱乐部氛围了
Little we're entering the club a little bit.
但我觉得最能代表我的是那些背景部分
But I'd say the part that's most me is the the backgrounds.
每个部分都很重要，但又在某种程度上相互支撑
Every part is, like, very important but supports each other in a way.
我通常会录下空调声，然后在FabFilter里增强，确保它有升F调，现在它变成了一把吉他
There's there I I usually, I to record the air conditioner and boost it in FabFilter to make sure it has the f sharp, and now it's a guitar.
这个确实达到了目的
There's that that served a purpose.
我特别喜欢做这类事情，尤其是在网上
And I love doing stuff like that, especially on the Internet.
是啊
Yeah.
但我觉得最重要的是让歌曲最精彩的部分凸显出来，就是那个从酒店录音开始，逐渐过渡到1176效果的部分
But I felt it was really important just to, like, have the the most important part of the song shine, which is just the Again, from the hotel, like, going into an eleven seventy six.
那个小小的
That little
噗噗
boo boo
噗。
boo.
而且
And
哇。
Woah.
我们能听到那些和弦吗？
Can we hear those chords?
我想要 我想要
I want I want
我想要更多那种破碎感。
that I want more of that crunch.
这其中有区别 这里有
It's there's a difference between there's
就是那个。
That's the one.
嗯，那些和弦带有歌曲所需的暧昧感，因为对我来说这是一首苦乐参半的歌。
Well, those those chords have the ambiguity that the song demands because it's it's kind of a bittersweet song to me.
它有点忧伤。
It's it's a little sad.
它又带点希望。
It's a little hopeful.
有点亮。
It's a little bright.
有点暗。
It's a little dark.
我觉得那些和弦捕捉到了某种中间状态。
I feel like those chords capture some of that in betweenness.
好吧，我必须向你们听到的那位吉他手致敬。
Well, I I gotta give it up to the guitarist that you're hearing.
他的名字
His name
叫杰克。
is Jack.
原本我以为会那样发展，然后他建议要
And originally, I thought it was gonna go And then he made the suggestion to to
我当时
I was
就觉得，这真的很巧妙。
like, this is like very clever.
是啊。
Yeah.
当它是
When It's
不是摆姿态。
not a posgetura.
绝对同意。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yes.
不管那道法国菜是什么意思。
Whatever that French dish means.
但当人们带来有趣的创作方式时，比如改变常规的歌曲创作流程，这会让我的大脑兴奋起来，就像打网球一样。
But when when people bring an interesting like songwriting starts, like, if we instead of doing the regular degular, we do It makes my brain want to it's like playing tennis.
就像是，哇，你刚才在创作层面带来的点子真的很酷。
It's like, oh, that's very cool what you just brought on a songwriting level.
现在让我带来些简单但有效的东西。
Let me now bring something simple yet effective.
比如我可能会用吉他弹奏你的旋律，但在人声部分制造不和谐音，而且不像他那样解决，因为本来就没有真正解决。
Like, maybe I'll do what you did in the guitar, but with the vocals, I'll do, like, the dissonance instead of And it doesn't resolve because he wasn't really resolving.
没错。
Yeah.
我认为每种乐器都扮演着至关重要的角色。
It's it's it's all every every instrument plays a vital part in my opinion.
亿万富翁无处不在。
Billionaires are everywhere.
就在本周，《卫报》报道Z世代最热门的工作是为亿万富翁当保姆。
Just this week, The Guardian reported that Gen z's hottest job is nannying for billionaires.
特朗普总统赦免了一位因欺诈罪被定罪的英国亿万富翁，这样他就能来美国看望孙辈了。
President Trump pardoned a British billionaire who was convicted of fraud so he can visit his grandbabies in America.
一位亿万富翁投资者在CNBC上威胁要离开纽约，因为住房成本太高。
A billionaire investor threatened on CNBC to leave New York because housing is too expensive.
太贵了。
Expensive.
简直是天价。
It's super expensive.
都是工会的错。
Because of the unions.
其他开发商曾试图与工会达成协议，但工会掌控着纽约。
Other developers have tried to cut deals with the unions, but they rule New York.
然后他说曼达尼会把纽约变成孟买。
Then he said Mamdani's gonna turn New York into Mumbai.
这些故事真烦人。
These stories are annoying.
我们对亿万富翁感到厌烦，却无法摆脱他们。
We are annoyed with billionaires, but we can't escape them.
或许可以？
Or can we?
接下来在《今日解说》节目中，我们将探讨废除亿万富翁的运动。
Coming up on Today Explained, the movement to abolish billionaires.
没有恶意，但，没错，矮子们，把钱都捐出来吧。
No hate, but, yeah, give your money away, shorties.
爱你们。
Love you guys.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
我们能多聊聊《The Voice》吗？
Can we talk more about The Voice?
我觉得这段副歌不仅在传达'我不需要英雄'这个信息上非常有效。
I I think this chorus is so not not only very effective in delivering this message, I don't need a hero.
而且旋律也很抓耳。
It's also very hooky.
非常容易上口。
It's very catchy.
嘿。
Hey.
总要保留一些瑞典特色元素。
There always has to be an element of, like, Swedishness.
这就对了。
There we go.
就是Chiron工作室。对。
The the Chiron Studios Yeah.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
旋律和你嗓音的配合方式也很棒，就像在说'不需要抱歉，各位'。
The the way the the way the the melody works with your voice too, it's like, don't need sorry, everyone.
没关系。
That okay.
把那东西举起来。
Lift that up.
盖住就行。
Just cover.
就是...我猜...通常...我会选择
It's it's I I guess, normally, I would go
但它
But it
感觉也像是...我不希望它
felt like too, like I didn't want it to
感觉像是
feel like
就是...这很酷...但我想...几乎像是...我不知该如何演唱。
Like, it's it's it's cool, but, like, I wanted to, like, be almost like I didn't know how to sing.
是啊。
Yeah.
因为
Because
它既 whimsical（古怪有趣）又讲究表达方式...但传递的信息...是关于...我亲身经历的...非常沉重的事情。
it's it's whimsical and it's delivery, but the the message is like it's like about like a really like heavy thing that like I experienced.
而且我觉得很多人也有类似经历。
And I feel like a lot of people experience that too.
所以何不以一种 whimsical（古怪有趣）的方式...来调侃它呢？
So why not kinda take the piss out of it and make fun of it in a whimsical kind of way?
嗯，实际上我觉得这样反而更脆弱一些。
Well, feels a little more vulnerable actually, I think.
在某种程度上，
In some way,
比如当你不把自己太当回事的时候
like when you're not taking yourself so
是啊。
Yeah.
说真的，
Seriously,
这没问题，但对一首歌来说没什么意义
which is fine, but that wouldn't have served a purpose for a song
像那样。
like that.
但同时，当你突然切换到假声时，我觉得那给了我们一种聆听真正抓耳副歌的满足感。
And yet at the same time, I feel like when you pop into that falsetto, it gives us that satisfaction of like listening to a real hooky chorus too.
因为听着你这样高低起伏真的很有趣，我觉得对听众来说是这样。
Because there's something very hearing you go up and down like that is really fun, I think, for a listener.
我唱得也很开心。
It's fun for me to make it too.
哦，酷。
Oh, cool.
我很感谢这一点。
And I I appreciate it.
而我我我总是在想观众的反应，比如，跟着唱回来的样子。
And I I I always think about the audience, like, singing it back.
就像，当我们最终现场演奏这首歌的时候。
Like, when we do eventually play this live.
是啊。
Yeah.
想象一下，在日本之类的地方，听到所有人都在唱那个高音G。
How, you know, in Japan or something and hearing everybody there sing that high g Yeah.
会真的很像，就像有些人唱不准，唱得偏低了，或者那个G音有点偏高。
Will be really like, it like, people who miss it and do the the e e flatter, hit the g a little sharp.
就像，你有没有注意到，去布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀演唱会时，不是每个人都会唱歌。
Like, I want you ever notice, like, when you go to a Bruce Springsteen concert, like, not everybody there is a singer.
我不
I don't
知道你是否
know if you
知道这点，但就算五万人都在跑调也没关系，因为所有那些跑调的音符会融合在一起
knew that, but it doesn't matter if, like, 50,000 people are singing off pitch because they're all gonna all those off pitch notes are gonna meld together and
然后创造出某种东西创造出某种
And create something create something
共同融合的效果。
together and glued together.
所以我觉得我们需要稍微回到吉他部分，因为人们想到查理·普斯的歌时，我觉得他们会想到键盘。
So I feel like we need to go back to the guitars a little bit because if people think of a Charlie Puth song, I feel like they think of keys.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他们会想到，比如，或许是你为我们演奏的那些爵士风格的扩展和声。
They think of, like, perhaps some some some of the jazzy extended harmonies that you've been playing for us.
所以当这首歌开始时，先是颤音吉他演奏纯五度，然后是原声吉他弹奏那种扫弦节奏，我觉得这暗示了你想要通过这首歌实现的目标，因为它不是你惯用的音乐调色板。
So when this song starts and we have first that tremolo guitar playing the perfect fifth and then this, like, acoustic guitar playing that strumming pattern, I feel like it says it says something about maybe what you wanna accomplish with this song because it's not your typical palette.
我希望人们不要，比如说，立刻就喜欢上它。
I I'd like for people not to, like, almost like it immediately.
是的。
Yeah.
当然，我希望他们喜欢，但我更希望他们对这首歌的感受保持一种不确定感。
Of course, I want them to like it, but I'd like them to be unsure of how they feel about it.
没错。
Yeah.
因为这是我从未尝试过的风格。
Because it's it's not anything I've ever done before.
而且我没有和其他制作人合作。
And I'm not working with different producers.
我就是制作人。
I'm the producer.
我为此感到自豪。
I take pride in that.
所以我必须去听其他作品和乐队的音乐，了解人们是如何处理音乐的。
So I I have to listen to other things and bands and how people are approaching music.
这有点像短途旅行。
It's almost like jaunting a little bit.
就像，哦，查理的新歌。
Like, oh, new Charlie song.
吉他？
A guitar?
我甚至不知道怎么弹吉他。
I don't even know how to play guitar.
我我很想听听前副歌部分
I I would love to listen to the the pre chorus
的的
of of
和你一起听《英雄》。
Hero with you.
前副歌就是你在前奏中短暂听到的那些关键旋律的引子。
So pre chorus is introduction to the keys that you heard briefly in the intro.
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双倍。
Doubles.
当我揭穿你的虚伪时我的血压就会飙升。
My blood pressure elevates when I call you up for being fake.
我不想刻薄。
And I don't want to be mean.
但我不会
But I'm not gonna
闭嘴。
shut up.
在那上面继续引导。
Lead on top of that.
当我揭穿你的虚伪时血压飙升。
Blood pressure elevates when I call you up for being fake.
而且我不想刻薄。
And I don't want to be mean.
吉他。
Guitar.
所以
So
这是第一段预副歌。
that's pre chorus one.
然后当你进入第二段预副歌时
Then when you go to pre chorus two
我的血压飙升
My blood pressure elevates
应该还有你没听到的另一个元素。
there should be another element that you didn't hear.
当我揭穿你的虚伪时血压飙升，哦，
My blood pressure elevates when I call you up for being Oh,
我们能搞定。
we got this.
是啊。
Yeah.
那小个子。
The little dude.
所以你在第一段前奏里听不到这个。
So you don't hear that in the first pre.
这些东西只有我们会在意。
This is stuff that, like, only we care about.
但是
But
但它确实在整首歌中构建了一个上升的弧线。
But it but it it creates an upward arc across the song.
这确实是对坚持听完的听众的奖励。
It rewards the listener for for sticking around, really.
我同意。
I agree.
就像过山车，你知道，那家伙值最后一班岗，那就再坐一次呗。
It's like a roller coaster ride that you're just, you know, the guy's on his last shift and it's like, sure, ride it again.
没错。
Yeah.
比如，我真的很期待穿过恐龙屁股之类的。
Like, I'm really looking forward to going through the dinosaur's ass or something.
啥？
What?
就是，我不知道。
Like, I don't know.
嘴巴。
Mouth.
哦，还有渗出的黏液。
Oh, and the ooze.
当我揭穿你的虚伪时血压就会飙升。
Blood pressure elevates when I call you up for being fake.
暮色和声器。
Eventide harmonizer.
当我揭穿你的虚伪时我的血压就会飙升。
My blood pressure elevates when I call you up for being fake.
效果通道。
The effects channel.
那是你听到的第一个即兴发挥。
That's the first ad lib you hear.
悲伤的
The sad
那是
That's
这就像是个微妙的小细节。
it's just like little subtlety thing.
我在《Attention 2》里也这么做过，副歌部分就像只有一个即兴唱段切入
I did that in Attention two where the chorus just like a has just one ad lib going into
你只是想要关注。
You just want attention.
你并不想要我的心。
You don't want my heart.
我的心。
My heart.
无论我当时做了什么。
Whatever I did at the time.
那句歌词怎么说来着，你那些所谓的'朋友'？
What about that line, your so called friends quotation marks?
我对这句特别有共鸣。
I really responded to that.
这有点像非语法化的表达，语法上并不完全正确对吧。
It's kind of like the non grammatic it's not super grammatically correct Right.
但它就是押韵。
But it just rhymes.
所以我们就这样顺下来了。
So we're we were rolling it with it.
Cash和我，还有John Byron，对。
Cash and I and and John Byron Yeah.
这首歌也是和他一起写的。
Who I also wrote it with.
它真正的意思是，那些就是你的朋友。
What it really means is, like, those those are your friends.
我想，从视觉上，就像
I wanted to, like, visually, like
不。
No.
这听起来就像是对话的文字记录。
It's it's very it it sounds like the transcript of a conversation.
你所谓的“引号”
Your so called quotation marks
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
我认为因为它语法不完全正确，反而更容易记住。
I think because it's not exactly grammatically correct, it kind of sticks in your brain.
是啊。
Yeah.
你记得更牢。
You remember it better.
这首歌
This song
是浓缩咖啡。
is espresso.
也许是浓缩咖啡。
Maybe it's espresso.
没错。
Exactly.
就像你听过多少次一首歌，然后突然觉得，哦，我懂他们想表达什么了。
It's like how how many times have you, like, heard a song and be like, oh, I I know what they mean.
是啊。
Yeah.
这就像是俚语诞生的方式。
It's like, it's how slang was invented.
但这首歌实际上讲的是热水浴缸边的对话。
But this song is literally a song about a conversation by a hot tub.
那是唯一能躲开他们那群傻乎乎朋友的地方。
Like the only place where we could get away from all the goofball friends that they were hanging out with.
在那里我能有十分钟的真实对话，感觉这才是真正的你。
Where I could just be like, just ten minutes of real, like, this is not you.
我记得艾薇儿·拉维尼曾经写过一首类似的歌。
I think Avril Lavigne wrote a song about that once.
就是那种，情况很复杂的感觉。
Like, it's complicated.
我了解这种感觉。
I'm familiar.
没错。
Yeah.
它几乎带着浪漫的调调，但实际上更像是我和很在乎的人之间的交心谈话。
And it it it borders on, like, romantic sounding, but it's really kind of like a heart to heart with, like, someone who I cared a lot about.
我觉得桥段部分加深了这种感受，因为通常桥段会比之前听到的部分更强烈。
Well, I feel like the the bridge deepens that feeling because you might expect a bridge to sort of be more even more maximal than everything you've heard.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但这座桥的作用恰恰相反。
But this bridge does the opposite.
甚至我现在看着音频文件，突然间就变成了两个WAV文件之类的。
And even I'm looking at the sound file now, and all of a sudden, it's just two WAV files or something.
这甚至不算数。
This doesn't even count.
这只是音效文件。
This is just the effects file.
一、二。
One, two.
和声部分。
Harmonies.
所以
So
所以桥段会打破一切结构。
the so the bridge breaks everything down.
最后副歌部分再把所有元素重建起来。
Final chorus builds everything up.
对。
Yeah.
我们能听一下歌曲的结尾部分吗？
Can we listen to the very end of the song?
所以到了最后。
So the very end.
结尾处感觉有点突然。
It's kind of abrupt at the end.
这是因为
It is because it's
这个
the
对话并没有按计划进行。
the conversation didn't really go as planned.
所以我我想在音乐中稍微传达那种情绪。
So it I I I wanna kind of convey that emotion in the music a little bit.
嗯，我在听的时候发现自己一直在想，接下来会发生什么？
Well, I found I found I found myself wondering when I when I was listening, I was like, what's gonna happen here?
你知道，某种程度上它有点未完成的感觉。
You know, there it's sort of unfinished in a way.
未完成的事。
Unfinished business.
其实真正的答案是会出一张专辑，你会听到更多内容。知道这点很好。
Well, what will the the real answer is that an album will happen and you'll hear more That's good to know.
你会听到实际的B面曲目，以及泰勒非常擅长的那些呼应和桥段。
You'll hear, like, actual, like, the the the the b part of of things and, like, recalls and stuff that Taylor does really, really, really well.
而且我之前已经在做这类音乐了。
And again, I was already working on music like this.
但当她公开喊话时，我又觉得，我必须支持。
But again, when she made that shout out, I was like, I have to Right.
就这么做吧。
Go that route.
《痛苦诗人部门》那番公开表态，就是我们宣称查理·普斯应该成为更重量级的艺人。
And that that shout out from Tortured Poets department was, we declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist.
查理·普斯，你认同这个评价吗？
Charlie Puth, do you agree with that assessment?
如果成为更重量级艺人意味着我能比现在影响更多人，去告诉人们拿起乐器创作歌曲，不要因为生活中有人否定他们的艺术才华就气馁——
If me being a bigger artist means I get to have even further reach than I already do to tell people to pick up an instrument and make a song and not be discouraged if someone in their life is telling them that they can't make any art.
如果这样能多影响十个人，那我愿意成为更重量级的艺人。
If that means I can reach 10 more people, then that that then I would like to be a bigger artist.
我不想为了膨胀自我而追求更大名气。
I don't I don't wanna be a bigger artist to inflate my own ego.
嗯。
Yeah.
现在这样就很好。
That's fine where it's at.
真的，我做音乐本就不是为了这个。
Like, I really actually don't do this for for that.
我做音乐是为了激励那些刚上大学、刚接触音乐想自己创作的人，甚至不限于音乐——只要是能用右脑进行的艺术创作。因为我觉得这类追求在美国尤其不受待见。
I do this to inspire people going to college, just getting started in music and wanting to make their own music or any even if it's not music, just to to do something artistic with the right side of their brain because I think it's kinda frowned upon, especially in America.
我也不知道为什么。
I don't know why.
只是那里确实有一些很棒的艺术学校，但出于某种原因，这不是需要讨论的重要话题。
It's just there there are some great art schools, but there's for for whatever reason, it's not the important subject matter to be talked about.
比如，你所做的事情真的非常重要。
Like, what you do is a really important thing.
谢谢你。
You Thank you.
你给学生们带来灵感，点亮他们一天的生活，这样他们在数学这类非艺术课程上也会表现得更好。
You bring inspiration to your students and color the rest of their day, and they'll they'll succeed more in their less artistic kind of, you know, class like math.
现在还有人学数学吗？
If do people still do math?
我反正不会学。
I never would.
大概吧。
Presumably.
是啊。
Yeah.
可能吧。
Presumably.
在某个地方吧。
Somewhere.
如果我成为更知名的艺术家能激励更多孩子、大人或任何人...没错。
If me being a bigger artist can inspire more kids and adults and whoever Yeah.
这样的话，我就应该成为更知名的艺术家。
That, then I should be a bigger artist.
呃，我 我问 我问
Well, I I asked I asked
或许有点冒昧，但我确实感觉到你不是那种渴望同样曝光度的人。
that perhaps somewhat cheekily, but I do sense that you're someone who doesn't crave the same exposure.
我觉得我有证据证明这点，因为你做的很多工作都是幕后工作。
Feel like I have some evidence for that because so much of the work you do is behind the scenes.
而且你为其他艺人做了很多合作和歌曲创作，在这些工作中你必须适应不成为焦点。是的。
And you do a lot of collaborations and songwriting for other artists where you have to be sort of comfortable not being the the focus Yeah.
某种程度上要退居幕后。
And sort of receding into the background.
是的。
Yeah.
再说一次，我 我 我并不追求成为更知名的艺人，也不追求看起来像个更酷的人。
Again, I I don't I don't I don't strive to be a bigger artist to be look like a cooler guy.
是的。
Yeah.
我当然想表演，你知道我甚至...但我甚至不确定这是否是真的。
I, of course, wanna play, you know I don't even but I don't even know if that's true.
我不确定自己是否想在体育场演出。
I don't know if I wanna play like stadiums.
我只是想激励八万人。
I I just want to inspire 80,000 people.
也许不是让他们在体育场看到我，但我确信...体育场演出时音效听起来不错吧？
Maybe not have them see me in a stadium, but I'm sure I don't do stadiums sound good when you when you play in them?
音响效果到处都是。
The the acoustics are all over the place.
但我的意思是，我不会反对。
But I mean, I wouldn't be opposed.
是啊。
Yeah.
但我...我只是...我知道听起来像在编造，但我真的只是关心听众
But I I just I I know it sounds like I'm making it up, but I really just do care about the listener
是啊。
Yeah.
还有电话那头的人。
And the person on the other side.
这种想要触达人群的渴望，在你的一些合作作品中是如何体现的？
How does that desire to reach people manifest in some of the collaborations you've done?
最近几次合作对象都是知名K-pop艺人，比如Stray Kids和防弹少年团的田柾国。
A few of which recently have been with prominent K pop artists, Stray Kids, Jungkook from BTS.
这也是同一种理念的体现吗？试图跨越音乐类型，甚至国界？
Is that part of that same philosophy trying to work across genre, across borders even?
是啊。
Yeah.
我现在正在做一首乡村歌曲。
I'm working on a country record right now.
不是整张专辑，就是单曲。
Not an album, but like a song.
关于这一点稍后会有更多内容。
And more on that soon.
但我就是牛仔查理。
But I just Cowboy Charlie.
也许吧。
Maybe.
我不知道自己是否算不上牛仔查理，但我之前确实发行过一些乡村歌曲。
I don't know if I wouldn't be Cowboy Charlie, but I've I've had country songs out before.
我只是觉得音乐某种程度上是分门别类的，是的。
I just but I just think it's all I think music is kinda genre lists Yeah.
在某种程度上是这样。
In a way.
那么，带我们看看其中一次合作吧，比如Stray Kids和柾国的合作，你们当时甚至可能要跨越语言障碍进行创作。
Well, take us to one of those collaborations, Stray Kids, Chung Kook, like, what what is that you're working maybe across even language at that point.
就像这样，是的。
So like Yeah.
那是怎么进行的呢？
How does that how does that go down?
具体说到你刚才播放的Stray Kids唱片，那些男孩真的很不错。
Well, specifically for the Stray Kids record that you just put on there, such nice boys.
他们之前从未制作过完全用英语演唱的歌曲。
They had never done a song entirely in English before.
而和我一起制作这张唱片的Johnny Goldstein，带来了这些带有部落风情的鼓点。
And Johnny Goldstein, whom I produced the record with, came in with these kind of tribal ish drums.
在来的路上，我一直在听他们的专辑，他们有很多那种部落风格、陷阱风格的鼓点，因为他们跳舞比我厉害多了，他们在舞台上的动作就像在表演一样。
And on the ride over, I I was listening to their discography, and they have a lot of those, like, tribal, like, trap ish kind of drums because they dance way better than me, and they move on stage like they're they put on a show.
但我在想，会不会有那种类似R&B风格的东西？
But I was thinking, like, what could there could there be, like, something like like, r and b ish?
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
有点像Jewel Santana那种感觉。
And like, almost like Jewel Santana.
没错。
Yeah.
对我来说就像是慢动作一样。
Like, in slow motion for me.
配上那种减和弦的感觉。
With, like, diminished chords There
好了。
we go.
配合那些...对。
Against those Yeah.
当我听到他加入那些鼓点时，我就用吉他弹了些和弦效果。
And then when I heard he brought those drums in, and then I just played that on, like, a kinda, like, a chord sounding guitar.
然后我们在最后一刻改变了踩镲的节奏模式，做得像Ghost Town DJs那种感觉。
And then we switch at the very last minute, we switch the hi hat pattern from going we did it like a ghost town DJs
差不多这样。
kind of thing.
而且
And
这让我想起第一次在亚特兰大演出时的场景，那里的观众反应截然不同——他们接收音乐的方式，演出后外出的氛围，以及随后听到的
it brought me, like, to like the first time I like performed in Atlanta and how like different the audience was there, like how they were receiving the music there and then going out afterwards and then hearing
而且
And
这就像爵士乐
it's like jazz.
就像是《Giant Steps》那种
Which is like a giant steps.
二五一和弦进行
Two five one.
所有音乐本质上都是相通的
It's all music is all the same.
所以我不介意做一首K-pop歌曲，就像做这种受泰勒启发的作品一样
So that's why I don't mind doing a k pop song than doing this kind of Taylor inspired Yeah.
然后创作《Light Switch》这样的歌曲——某种程度上算是超流行风格——再和Stray Kids合作
Song and then making a song like Light Switch and which is kinda hyper pop in a way and then collaborating with the Stray Kids.
我其实不在意这些，因为音乐就是音乐，能参与其中我就很开心
And I I just I don't mind because it's music and I'm just happy to be there kind of thing.
你是否觉得有时需要克制自己对音乐复杂性的追求？
Do you do you feel like you have to sort of modulate your own desire for more complexity in music sometimes?
这是我思考的问题，从更宏观的流行音乐角度来看
This is something I think about just in in a larger sense when in in pop music.
你如何将演奏《巨人步伐》的渴望融入创作？是否有时需要暂时放下这种风格来打造流行热曲？
How do you take your desire to to play giant steps and do you do you feel like you have to sometimes leave that at the door to create a pop hit?
你是否
Do you
明白我的意思吗？
know what I mean?
我觉得这完全取决于你要制作什么样的唱片
I it I think it's just all depends on what kind of record
好的。
Okay.
你想要创作的类型。
You're kind trying to make.
如果你想制作那种...他们管那叫什么来着？
If you're if you wanna make what do they what do they call it?
轻柔爵士乐哦，对。
Smooth jazz music Oh, yeah.
其实我还挺喜欢天狼星XM那个频道的。
Which I actually I I like that channel on SiriusXM.
那是我第一次听到这种爵士乐，有首Paul的歌叫《The City》。
That's like the first time I heard like jazz with there's this song by I think called The City by Paul.
吉他手Paul Brown的作品。
This guitarist Paul Brown.
虽然有点老套，但挺有氛围感的，听起来特别像Windows XP系统的风格。
It's got kinda corny, but, like, kinda vibey and it went very Windows XP sounding.
但这正是他们想打造的那种唱片。
But that's like the kind of record they were trying to make.
我本无意说那张唱片老套。
I didn't mean to call that record corny.
别来找我麻烦，保罗·布朗。
Don't come for me, Paul Brown.
当我创作音乐时，我总想悄悄融入这种元素。
I when I'm making my music, I want to try and sneak it in.
但现在我甚至不用刻意去想，因为这已经像是刻在我的DNA里了。
But I don't even have to, like, really think about it anymore because it's just like kind of like in my DNA.
经过长期练习，我已经能准确判断什么时候糖衣炮弹会太过头
And I and I know when to I've practiced long enough to know when, you know, there's there's too much icing
是啊。
Yeah.
盖过蛋糕本身。
On the cake.
你总不会只想吃糖霜吧。
You don't wanna just eat all the icing.
你会更想享受那湿润的蛋糕芯
You wanna, like, actually enjoy the moist center
就是那种...新的奶油牛轧糖口感。
that is the The new the creamy nougat.
没错。
Yeah.
奶油牛轧糖的酥脆口感。
The creamy nougat crunch.
你不想只是随便吃点，你更想要什么？
You don't wanna just have all like, what would you rather have?
比如，一堆糖屑？
Like, a bunch of sprinkles?
还是你更想要，比如，中间那块柠檬蛋白派？
Or do you wanna, like, actually, like, have, like, the lemon meringue tart in the middle?
我是说，这太有意思了。
That's I mean, that's fascinating.
这个问题有个糟糕的回答方式。
There's like a horrible way to answer that question.
就是，别纠结这个。
Just, like, don't go over it.
不。
No.
其实我...这个回答非常令人满意。
That's I I that's actually, that's a very satisfying answer.
因为我确实有时把你视为我们的内线。
Because I do I do sometimes think of you as our man on the inside.
我说的'我们'是指，那些书呆子，音乐发烧友，对这些东西永远不满足的人。
And by our, I mean, the the nerds, the the music geeks, the people who who can't get enough of this stuff.
我知道。
I know.
但你已经参与其中了。
But you're in there.
你已融入其中。
You're in the mix.
我觉得每个人都是书呆子，老兄。
I think everybody's a nerd, man.
如果你对音乐不痴迷，那你就是对发动机和汽车着迷。
If you're not a nerd about music, you're a nerd about motors and cars.
而且，前几天有人告诉我汽车启动器是什么。
And, like, I someone told me what a a car starter was the other day.
我原本以为只要把钥匙插进车里就能启动。
I just thought you just put your key in the car and starts.
显然，这里面有一整套机械装置，没错，他们就是书呆子。
Apparently, there's a whole mechanism that, like, yeah, they're nerds.
每个人都是书呆子。
Everyone's a nerd.
大家都默认了，因为我觉得书呆子这个词带有负面含义。
Everyone's pat because I think nerd has a negative connotation to it.
我认为这只是表达你对某事充满热情的另一种说法。
I think it's just another way of saying that you're passionate about something.
对吧。
Right.
我们显然对音乐充满热情，所以才会在周四下午讨论分轨和底鼓。
We're clearly passionate about music, which is why we're here on a Thursday afternoon talking about stems and kick drums.
那么，创作自己的音乐和为其他艺人写歌在这方面也有区别吗？
Is so is there a difference between working on your own music and writing for another artist in that sense too?
你觉得在为别人创作、与别人合作时，是否会运用一套不同的技能？
Do you feel like you bring a different set of skills to the table when you're writing for someone else, working with someone else?
对我来说为别人写歌非常有趣
Writing for someone else for me is very fun
是啊。
Yeah.
因为这样我就能多施展些花样技巧
Because I get to, like, maybe pull out a couple more bag of tricks.
就像是
Just like a
拿出你的看家本领。
Go to your bag.
没错。
Yeah.
可能他们没在自己的歌里用过这些技巧，但反之亦然。
Like they maybe haven't used on their song, but it's vice versa too.
比如有次我和Sam Smith合写了一首歌
Like Sam Smith and I wrote a song one time.
我不确定
I don't know.
不，那首歌还没发布
It's no, it hasn't come out.
但我们很久以前写过一首歌，而他们来时毫无准备。
But we wrote a song a very long time ago and they came with nothing prepared.
我当时非常紧张，心想，天啊，我必须给他们留下好印象。
And I was like very nervous because I was like, oh, they're I gotta make a good impression.
而他们却说，我们就随便弹几个和弦试试看，看看会发生什么。
And they were like, let's just play some chords and just see, let's just see what happens.
我从中学到了很多，因为以前每次进录音棚前我都特别焦虑，尤其是和Sam这样的超级巨星合作时。
I learned from that because I was so neurotic before going into every session, especially with, like, a superstar like Sam.
那是第一次我完全没做准备却保持放松，结果反而创作出了更好的作品。
And for the it was the first time where I was completely unprepared but just relaxed and then ended up making a better song.
所以这确实是他们带给我的特别重要的启示。
So that's like a really significant thing that they, in particular, brought to me.
或许我也给他们带来了一些更爵士的和弦编排。
And maybe I brought to them some more jazzy chords.
所以这算是双向的。
So it kinda goes both ways.
这是一种交流。
There's an exchange.
这就是协作的意义。
That's collaboration.
我们已经深入探讨了核心问题。嗯。
So we've gotten to go deep under the hood Mhmm.
继续你对汽车的兴趣。是的。
To continue your interest in Car Yeah.
我现在爱上汽车了。
I love Cars now.
关于英雄，这让我对剩下的内容充满期待。
Of Hero, and it's it's wetted my appetite for for the rest of them.
这让我很兴奋。
It makes me excited.
是啊。
Yeah.
我...我要谢谢泰勒给了我一点信心上的鼓励。
I I'm and thanks, Taylor, for a little little boost in confidence.
太棒了。
It's great.
查理，非常感谢你带我们听完这首歌。
Charlie, thank you so much for taking us through this song.
没错。
Yeah.
《一砖一瓦》，这真的很有趣。
Brick by Brick, that was really fun.
绝对是的。
Absolutely.
随时想再来一次都可以。
Anytime you wanna do this.
我们可以做...我们可以做12首歌
We'll do we'll do it for we'll do 12 songs
下周见
for the see you next week for
下一首歌
the next song.
下周的下一首歌，时长将达五个半小时
The next song next week, it's gonna be five and a half hours.
希望你没什么安排
Hope you don't have plans.
你可别想走
You're not leaving.
对吧？
Right?
和我们一起
Stay with us.
没错
Yeah.
周五晚上
Friday night.
真是太开心了
This has been a blast.
谢谢你，查理
Thank you, Charlie.
谢谢
Thank you.
《流行音乐解码》由Vox媒体播客网络为您呈现。
Switched On Pop is brought to you by Vox Media Podcast Network.
我们是Vulture旗下的制作项目。
We're a production of Vulture.
我们的制作人是Rihanna Cruz。
Rihanna Cruz is our producer.
我是Nate Sloan。
I'm Nate Sloan.
我和Charlie Harding共同主持这档节目。
I host the show with Charlie Harding.
Iris Gottlieb负责我们的插画制作。
Iris Gottlieb makes our illustrations.
Abby Barr担任我们的社群经理。
Abby Barr is our community manager.
Brandon McFarlane负责节目音频工程，Art Chung担任编辑。
Brandon McFarlane engineers the show, and Art Chung is the editor.
所有人都走上舞台互相击掌庆祝。
Everyone's coming out on stage and high fiving each other.
您可以找到更多
You can find more
节目内容，各大播客平台均可收听。
episodes anywhere you get podcasts.
我们的常驻钢琴师是Charles Puth，下周我们将带着全新一期节目与您再见。
Our in house pianist is Charles Puth, and we'll see you next week with a brand new episode.
一如既往，感谢聆听。
As always, thanks for listening.
版权归2024年所有。
Copyright 2024.
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