泰勒·斯威夫特的秀场女伶之声：如何真正聆听这张专辑

是否曾感觉你作为营销专业人士只是在对着虚空喊话？虚空。虚空。但通过领英广告，你能确保触达正确的决策者——实际上是一个由1.3亿人构成的网络。你甚至能按职位头衔、行业、公司、资历、技能来定向投放广告，对了，我说过职位头衔了吗？

Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Void. Void. But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of a 130,000,000 of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?

了解如何通过领英广告避开无效投放，精准触达目标买家。首期广告投放250美元，即可获赠250美元信用额度用于下次投放。立即登录linkedin.com/campaign开启推广。条款与条件适用。

See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at linkedin.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

节目开始前插播：我们的《流行音乐解码》已入围信号奖最佳音乐播客及最佳原创配乐提名。若您能为我们投票将意义重大。投票链接见节目备注，截止日期仅剩两天。欢迎来到《流行音乐解码》的泰勒专题讨论室。

Before we get started, Switched On Pop is nominated for a Signal Award for best music podcast and best original score. It would mean the world to us if you would vote for us. The links are in our show notes. Voting ends in just two days. Welcome to the Switched on pop Swiftuation room.

我是词曲作者查理·哈丁。

I'm songwriter Charlie Harding.

我是音乐学者内特·斯隆。

And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

现象研讨会。泰勒·斯威夫特发布了她的第十二张专辑，创下个人首日销量最高纪录——首日狂销270万张。专辑包含12首歌曲。

We are currently at SwiftCon twelve. Taylor Swift has dropped her twelfth album. Her greatest sales debut ever. 2,700,000 copies on day one. It's got 12 songs.

的欧洲站期间。啊。

Dirty dozen. They were announced on her boyfriend, now fiance, football player, Travis Kelce's New Heights podcast. The songs are about old flames, grudges, new love, and a healthy dose of literary references. Was made on the European leg of the Era's tour back in the 2024. Ah.

与她早期的合作者马克斯·马丁和Shellback一起，他们帮助泰勒·斯威夫特进入流行音乐世界，最后一次合作是在2017年的《Reputation》专辑。泰勒·斯威夫特表示，她的主要目标是创作出如此令人上瘾的旋律，以至于你几乎会对它感到愤怒，以及歌词同样生动但简洁、聚焦且完全有意为之。每个品牌、影响者、粉丝和非粉丝都来评论了这张专辑。所以现在的问题是，我们还能为这场讨论增添什么？

Along with her earlier collaborators, Max Martin and Shellback, who helped bring Taylor Swift into the world of pop, last working with her on the Reputation album in 2017. And Taylor Swift said that my main goals were melodies that were so infectious that you're almost angry at it, and lyrics that are just as vivid but crisp and focused and completely intentional. Every brand, influencer, fan, and non fan has come in and commented on this album. So now the question is, can we add anything to the discourse?

好吧，如果你喜欢和弦分析、对古典音乐的晦涩引用，以及大量阴谋论式的旋律思考，那么是的，我们确实有东西可以贡献。

Well, if you like chordal analysis, obscure references to classical music, and a healthy dose of conspiratorial melodic thinking, then yes, we do have something

为这场对话增添内容。好的。Swiftuation房间。是的。召集完毕。好的。

to add to this conversation. Okay. Swiftuation room Yeah. Convened. Okay.

让我们从头开始。第一首歌，她的主打单曲，《奥菲莉亚的命运》。

Let's start from the top. Track one, her lead single, The Fate of Ophelia.

暂停一下。

Pause it.

这是我的计划。

Was my plan.

再给我们播放一次开场的鼓点填充。那个鼓点填充是一个宣告。它是城堡墙上的传令官。我们有一张新的泰勒·斯威夫特专辑，我们有一种新的声音。

Just play us that opening drum fill one more time. That drum fill is an announcement. It is the herald on the wall of the castle. We have a new Taylor Swift album, and we have a new sound.

好的，有意思。等等，我觉得这是个假动作。没错。

Okay. Interesting. Hold on. I think this is a fake out. Yes.

有一段小小的鼓点填充，像是你的预告时刻。但随后Shellback弹奏的这些沉思般静谧的钢琴和弦，让人感觉我们正回到她那些安静唱片时期的延续——那种《folklore》《evermore》《The Tortured Poets Department》的风格。从开头的几个小节来看，似乎我们会停留在那个领域。

There's a little drum fill, your little heralding moment. But then you have these very pensive, quiet piano chords played by Shellback. And it feels like we're going back continuing through the quiet era of records that she's had. The sort of folklore evermore, the tortured poets department. It feels like we're gonna stay in that domain from the first couple measures.

好吧，有道理。那么这是

Okay. Fair enough. Then is it

某种程度上的伏笔吗？哦，就像我们可能在莎士比亚作品中找到的那种——这首歌里也引用了莎翁。你知道的，就像是宴席上的鬼魂，没错。这里引用的是《哈姆雷特》之外的另一部莎剧。

a bit of foreshadowing in that case? I'll Oh. The kind that we might find in Shakespeare who's being referenced in this song. You know, the ghost at the feast as it were to Yes. To reference another Shakespeare play other than Hamlet.

但确实如此。

But yes.

好的，所以你认为鼓点填充是在说‘嘿，我要玩点新花样’。我同意。那些干涩复古的70年代音效。嗯。

Okay. So you think the drum fill is saying, hey, I'm doing something new. I do. Those dry dead sort of 70 sound. Mhmm.

然后我觉得钢琴部分是个小幌子——让我们听听接下来发生什么。骗你的！其实是流行音乐，是首流行歌曲。

And then I think that the piano is this little fake out. Let's hear what happens next. Psych. It's pop music. It's a pop song.

背景中我们听到林德鲁姆的鼓点，八十年代流行乐王子迈克尔·杰克逊和众多泰勒唱片的声响。那种带有大合唱效果的流行低音贯穿始终，同时歌词直白地袒露她的新恋情。她说：'我听见你通过扩音器呼唤我，你想看我孤身一人。'

We have the Lindrum drumming in the background, the sound of eighties pop Prince, Michael Jackson, and many Taylor records. You have this big chorused poppy bass driving the entire thing along. And you have personal revealing lyrics about her new love. She says, I heard you calling on the megaphone. You wanna see me all alone.

嗯。关于这张专辑的诸多讨论，我们即将深入探讨的，就是弄清楚每首歌写的是谁。确实如此。但从开头就能听出，她是在回应特拉维斯·凯尔斯——后者曾在他的播客《新高地》上公开喊话，说他去箭牌商店试图见她。

Mhmm. Now so much discourse on this record we're gonna get into is about figuring out what song is about who. Indeed. Yeah. But it sounds like from the very beginning, she's calling out Travis Kelce, who called her out on his podcast when he went to try to meet her at the Arrow store.

让我失望的是她演出前后从不说话，因为她要为演唱44首歌保护嗓子。所以我有点伤心没能亲手送给她我做的友谊手链。

I was disappointed that she doesn't talk before or after her shows because she has to save her voice for the 44 songs that she sings. So I was a little butthurt I didn't get to hand her one of the bracelets I made for her.

他在播客上公开喊话后，两人经人牵线相识，现在已订婚。这就是故事的开端。在这首歌的叙事里，泰勒仿佛在说：'嘿，要不是你当初那样公开喊话，我可能还沉溺在悲伤中无法自拔。'众所周知，泰勒·斯威夫特通过11张专辑的音乐，记录了她所有过往恋情和心碎经历。

He called her out on his podcast, New Heights, later got set up, and they are now engaged to be married. That is the lead off. And in the legend of this song, Taylor is like, hey, if you never called me out like that, I would not be saved from my woes. She was drowning in her melancholy. Taylor Swift famously talks about all of her past loves and her music and has gone through many heartbreaks over 11 albums.

这首歌还运用了文学隐喻——奥菲莉娅的命运。查理你作为哈姆雷特专家应该很清楚，剧中奥菲莉娅最终香消玉殒。

And then there's the literary metaphor of this song, the fate of Ophelia. Because as you know well, Charlie, as a Hamlet expert, Ophelia in the play dies.

没错。这就是莎士比亚元素的体现。这是泰勒第二次重大莎士比亚改编，当然，《爱情故事》改写了罗密欧与朱丽叶的结局——他们没有殉情，而是相爱了

Yes. There's the Shakespeare of it all. This is the second major Shakespeare revision that Taylor Swift has done. Of course, love story rewrites the narrative of Romeo and Juliet, where at the end, they don't die. They fall in love

然后我想是'从此幸福地生活在一起'。对。

and I think Happily ever after. Yeah.

是的。《哈姆雷特》是一部悲剧，奥菲莉亚在其中死去。如果你已经离开高中一段时间了，或许需要快速回顾一下。哈姆雷特王子见到了父亲的亡魂，亡魂要求他向其兄弟克劳迪斯复仇。哈姆雷特假装疯癫以掩盖他意图谋杀克劳迪斯的真实目的。

Yes. Hamlet is a tragedy in which Ophelia dies. Maybe a a quick refresher, if you haven't been in high school for a minute. Prince Hamlet sees his father's ghost who asks him to avenge his death by the king's brother, Claudius. Can let Feign's madness to conceal his true intentions that he's going to murder Claudius.

他在剧中安排了一出名为《捕鼠器》的戏中戏，试图揭露克劳迪斯的真实意图。某日，他误以为藏匿的是克劳迪斯而将其刺杀，结果杀死的却是他心仪对象奥菲莉亚的父亲。奥菲莉亚因此精神失常，溺水而亡。当然，剧透警告——如果你没注意的话，几百年后（指后世读者皆知），《哈姆雷特》结局里所有人都死了，包括主角。而在这首歌里，我们看到了对这个故事的彻底颠覆。

He stages a fake play within the play called the mousetrap where he's gonna catch Claudius's true intentions. One day thinking he is going to murder the hiding Claudius, he accidentally kills the father of Ophelia, the object of his affection. She goes mad and dies of drowning. And then of course, spoiler alert, a couple hundred years late, if you haven't paid attention, everybody dies at the end of Hamlet, including the protagonist. And so in this song, we get a total about face of this narrative.

奥菲莉亚获救了。他们的爱情成为传世佳话。我认为这首歌很像他们的订婚宣言。不知道你是否看到过，泰勒·斯威夫特发帖说：'你的英语老师和体育老师要结婚了'。

Ophelia is saved. Their love is one for the ages. Now, this song, I think, is a lot like their engagement announcement. I don't know if you saw it, but Taylor Swift posts, your English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married.

挺有意思的。

That's pretty good.

英语老师自然是指泰勒·斯威夫特，

English teacher, of course, being Taylor Swift,

她

who

热爱诗歌和文学，幸运数字是13。而橄榄球运动员兼体育老师特拉维斯·凯尔西的幸运数字是87。内特，87加13等于多少？正好是100。

loves poetry, literature. Her lucky number is 13. Travis Kelce, the football player slash gym teacher, his lucky number is 87. What do you get when you add 87 to 13, Nate? You get a 100.

保持百分百真实。

Keep it a 100.

哦，哇。你对数字命理学研究得很深啊，查尔斯。

Oh. Wow. You're deep in the numerology, Charles.

她已确认了。这就是她获取数字的方式。她明确表示要保持百分百真实。数字命理学是真实存在的。这正是她的本意。

She has confirmed it. That is where she is getting her numbers. She confirmed to keep it 100. The numerology is real. That was her intent.

接着，她当然还说你曾向你的双手、你的团队、你的氛围效忠。感觉就像我们置身体育场中央，准备迎接一场橄榄球赛。这首歌是《哈姆雷特》文学与她钟爱莎士比亚的结合。她说在她的电影里，莎士比亚并未被高估。她是真正的粉丝，并将其与橄榄球明星特拉维斯·凯尔西联系在一起。

Then, of course, she goes on to say that you pledged allegiance to your hands, your team, your vibes. Feels like we're in the middle of a stadium, getting ready for a football game. This song is the marriage of the literature of Hamlet and her love of Shakespeare. She says that Shakespeare is not overrated in her film. She's a real fan, and uniting it with, you know, Travis Kelce, the football star.

我认为或许值得更深入了解奥菲莉亚。嗯。在《哈姆雷特》著名的‘生存还是毁灭’场景之后，他正思索生死问题。这时，他爱慕的对象奥菲莉亚与他当面对质。

I think it might be worth getting to know Ophelia a little bit better. Mhmm. After the famous to be or not to be scene in Hamlet, which he's contemplating life and death. Right. Ophelia, the object of his affection confronts him.

他拒绝了她，于是她有了这段著名的独白。

He rejects her, and she has this famous monologue.

‘进修道院去吧’。正是如此。

Get thee to a nunnery. Exactly.

她开始说道，哦，多么高贵的头脑，这是我们的王座。内特，你能为我扮演奥菲莉亚的剩余部分吗？

She begins, oh, what a noble mind here is our throne. Nate, will you play the rest of Ophelia for me?

而我，最沮丧最悲惨的女子，曾吮吸过他音乐般誓言中的蜜糖。哦，音乐。现在看那高贵至极的理性，如同甜美的钟声失调而刺耳。那无与伦比的青春风采，被狂喜摧毁。唉，我何其不幸，竟目睹我所见的一切。

And I, of ladies most deject and wretched, that sucked the honey of his music vows. Oh, music. Now see that noble and most sovereign reason, like sweet bells jangled out of tune and harsh. That unmatched form and feature of blown youth blasted with ecstasy. Oh, woe is me to have seen what I have seen.

看看我所见的。我在等待你们的掌声。让我们，让我们加入一些掌声。查理，这对你理解这首歌有所启发吗？

See what I see. I'm waiting for your applause. Let's let's pipe in some some applause. Did that illuminate anything about the song for you, Charlie?

嗯，有几个隐藏彩蛋。'蜜糖'这个词，音乐的誓言，青春的消逝。最重要的是，我认为所有关于表象的疑问。因为这张专辑，我想很像《哈姆雷特》，关乎现实的表象，过去幽灵的指令，伪装，扮演不同角色，甚至有时陷入疯狂。而这表现得极为直白。

Well, there are a few Easter eggs. The word honey, the musical vows, the passing of youth. Most importantly, I think all of the questions about appearances. Because this album, I think much like Hamlet, is about appearances of reality, ghosts of the past telling us what to do, feigning, playing different characters, maybe even diving into madness at times. And this is incredibly overt.

专辑的封面设计是泰勒身着歌舞女郎服装，头部勉强浮出浴缸水面。这个封面参考了约翰·埃弗里特·米莱斯1851年著名的奥菲莉亚溺水画作。它意在揭示时代巡演夜晚结束后发生的事，后台的真相。泰勒独处的瞬间。

The setup for this album has a cover image of Taylor in a showgirl outfit, her head barely above water in the bath. This cover is a reference to a famous painting of a drowning Ophelia done by Sir John Everett Millais in 1851. It's supposed to reveal what happens at the end of the night of the eras tour. What's happening backstage. A moment of Taylor to herself.

她通过影院体验活动发布这张专辑，观众可以观看音乐视频的制作过程。她称这是为流行乐迷准备的艺术史课。

She launched this album with an in theater experience where you could watch the making of the music video. And she calls this art history for pop fans.

我喜爱将《哈姆雷特》视为解锁这张专辑的万能钥匙这个想法。这真的触动了我。查尔斯，我很高兴你让我读这段独白，因为我注意到关于'甜美钟声失调而刺耳'的对句。这首歌里确实有些走调，不是音准或音高问题，而是和弦比常规稍长。主歌部分有个五小节的乐句——停。

I love the idea of Hamlet as the skeleton key to unlock this album. That really speaks to me. And I'm glad you had me read this soliloquy, Charles, because I'm looking at this couplet about sweet bells jangled out of tune and harsh. And, you know, there's something a little out of tune in this song, not in terms of, like, intonation or pitch, but the chords of the song are a little longer than they should be. The song has a five measure phrase in the verse Stop.

这确实很不寻常，有点刺耳又嘈杂。

Which is really unusual, kind of harsh and jangly.

我听见你通过扩音器呼唤我，你想单独见我。

I hear you calling on the megaphone. You wanna see me all alone.

现在应该直接回到下一个和弦。

Now it should go right back to the next chord.

据传说，你写的馅饼故事相当精彩。

As legend has it, quite the pie you wrote.

但它没有那样做，查理。它把最后一个和弦拖得比应有的时间更长。

But it doesn't do that, Charlie. It holds that last chord a little longer than it should.

我听见你通过扩音器呼唤我，你想单独见我。

I hear you calling on the megaphone. You wanna see me all alone.

一、二、三、四。

One, two, three, four.

哦，感觉像是被刻意拉长了，说实话有点别扭。但我觉得这是有意为之的设计。因为当我们进入副歌部分时，一切都会回归到规整的四小节乐句结构。所以就像是嗯哼。

Oh, It's like drawn out. It's a little awkward, honestly. But I think it's intentionally that way. Because then when we get to the chorus, everything evens out into these nice four bar phrases. So it's like Mhmm.

主歌和预副歌部分体现了奥菲利亚那种刺耳走调的躁动特质，而副歌则像是她终于找到了救赎。所有的不和谐都归于平静，一切重回正轨。

That verse and pre chorus is the harsh out of tune jangly nature of Ophelia, and then the chorus is like her finding, you know, her savior, I guess. And everything kinda evens out and becomes right.

好的。那么我想探讨这张专辑的核心主题。目前它收获的评价两极分化严重

Okay. So I wanna get into what this album is fundamentally about. Now it has received very polarizing reactions

确实。

Yes.

从《滚石》杂志五星满分盛赞其完美无缺，到《卫报》两星评价称其乏味浮夸。媒体最主要的反应是试图解码每首歌影射的对象。没错，你可以在《纽约时报》看到泰勒·斯威夫特粉丝如何破译这位演艺圈名媛的人生密码；在《娱乐今宵》查阅每首歌的影射对象；当然还有老牌《纽约邮报》，逐首剖析泰勒在《名媛人生》中埋藏的所有彩蛋。

From the Rolling Stone perfect five star review in which they say that it hits all the marks to the Guardians two stars, calling it dull and razzle dazzle. The primary response to the album has been media outlets trying to figure out who is each song about. Yes. You can go to the New York Times where they will tell you how Taylor Swift fans are decoding the life of a showgirl. You can go to Entertainment Tonight where you can read about who is each song about, and of course, the good old New York Post, all of Taylor Swift's Easter eggs in every song from the life of a showgirl.

我认为要理解这张专辑，我们需要相信泰勒的自我陈述。或者说——真的应该吗？

I think in order to understand this album, we need to take Taylor at her word. Or should we?

这张专辑能量流动的方式恰似我那段时期的生活状态。它记录了我巡演期间内心世界的幕后故事。可以说这就是帷幕之后发生的一切。

It feels like kind of energetically how my life has felt. And this album is about what was going on behind the scenes in my inner life during this tour. I would say it's everything that was going on behind the curtain.

泰勒告诉我们，这张专辑记录了时代巡演幕后的故事。但她同时提到

So Taylor tells us that this is the album of what's happening behind the scenes after the Era's tour. But she also says

我从事的是人类情感的事业。

I'm in the business of human emotion.

最重要的是

And most importantly

彩蛋艺术的精髓是什么？

What is the art of the Easter egg?

这种艺术

The art

彩蛋的艺术就在于其艺术性。这里存在该做与不该做的界限。明白吗？比如，我永远不会埋下与自己私生活相关的彩蛋，它们永远只会与音乐作品相关联。

of the Easter egg is that art of it. There's there's do's and don'ts. Right? Like, I'm never gonna plant an Easter egg that ties back to my personal life. It's always gonna be towards music.

所以我们获得的是后台通行证，但她也不会将线索引向自己的私生活。她所从事的是创作关于人类情感的歌曲事业。当我们审视她罕见的公开采访和露面时，会发现这一切都是表演的一部分。比如她在2022年纽约大学毕业典礼上的演讲，不仅是对毕业生的真诚祝福，更是为专辑《午夜》埋下的一系列彩蛋。

So we're getting a backstage pass, but she's also not going to tie us back to her personal life. That she's in the business of making songs that are about human emotion. And when we examine how she appears in public in the rare interviews and public appearances that she makes, we realize that it's all part of the performance. When she gave the 2022 NYU commencement speech, it wasn't just a sincere send off to the seniors. It was a mix of Easter eggs that would help launch her album Midnight.

当我们失去一些东西时，我们也会得到另一些。最终将它们全部打磨抛光。

When we lose things, we gain things too. And polishing it all up in the end.

我会打磨你的真实。我会打磨你的真实。很好。

I'll polish your real. I'll polish your real. Nice.

深呼吸，深吸气。呼气。

Breathe through, Breathe deep. Breathe out.

吸气。深呼吸。深吸气。呼气。

Breathe in. Breathe through. Breathe deep. Breathe out.

我该如何给这么多人提供人生选择的建议？我不会。

How do I give advice to this many people about their life choices? I won't.

永远不要接受一个正在崩溃之人的建议。

Never take advice from someone who's falling apart.

现在你只能靠自己了。但好消息是现在你只能靠自己了。现在你只能靠自己了。哇。

You're on your own now. But the cool news is you're on your own now. You're on your own now. Wow.

对泰勒·斯威夫特而言，万事皆可表演，即便不在舞台之上。她援引莎士比亚的文学典故已然昭示：这绝非自传。从她的音乐创作方式就能看出，这绝非按部就班的纪实性歌曲。正如她在首发宣传片中透露，手机里存着长达二十分钟可滚动浏览的歌曲概念存档，创作时便从中汲取灵感。

For Taylor Swift, everything is a performance, Even when she's not performing. Her literary references evoking Shakespeare tell us that this is not autobiography. Even from the way that she writes music, we know that it's not like a planned journalistic factual kind of song. Like, she tells us in this launch movie that she has concepts for songs saved on her phone that she can scroll through that are like twenty minutes long of scrolling. That she grabs from those when she's trying to find something to write about.

她痴迷于塑造角色、扮演不同身份。这不是传记。正如NPR乐评人Empower在《苦痛诗社》乐评中的精妙见解：这是自虚构文学。写作本就是场表演，作者虽是叙述者与主角，但故事尽可篡改、重构乃至完全虚构——当情感与情绪传递真相时，事实便退居次席。

That she loves embracing characters and playing different roles. This is not biography. I think the NPR music critic, Empower, has put it really well in her review of the torture poets department. This is auto fiction. Writing is a performance where, yes, the author is the narrator, is the protagonist, but also that the story can be altered, reimagined, and completely invented where facts are not nearly as important as truth that comes through emotion and sentiment.

泰勒不仅以自身视角书写，更热衷刻画其他角色，《艳舞女郎》便是例证。文学中有复调书写理论，源自巴赫金《陀思妥耶夫斯基诗学问题》，即多声部角色共同构建宏大叙事。或许她的创作正是复调式自虚构——众多角色对话交织出深层意义。

And Taylor doesn't only write about herself from her perspective. She also loves to write about other characters, which she does on Showgirl. In literature, there is this idea of polyphonic writing, where you write from many voices. This is Mikhail Bakhtin's theory of the problems of Dostoevsky's poetics, where many of the characters come together to tell the larger story that is the dialogue of all these characters that come together to give you meaning. And so perhaps a bit of what she's doing is polyphonic auto fiction.

没错，说复调是因为这是档音乐播客。你看，她既是少女也是反派，

Yes. Polyphonic because this is a music podcast. Yeah. You know, she's the teenager. She's the villain.

是镜中人也是痴情种，是艳舞女郎也是其他角色——贝蒂、詹姆斯、基蒂、阿兰娜·海姆、克拉拉·鲍、迪伦·托马斯、帕蒂·史密斯，这些都在她的歌中登场。

She's the mirror. She's the lover. She's the showgirl. Sometimes she's other characters. Betty, James, Kitty, Alana Haim, Clara Bow, Dylan Thomas, Patty Smith, all these characters that appear in her songs.

这提示我们需以不同方式聆听这张专辑：不必纠结每首歌影射谁，而应视其为一出大秀。艳舞女郎作为19-20世纪巴黎歌舞厅的标志，后来成为拉斯维加斯的经典符号，

And I think that that tells us that we need to listen to this album a little bit differently than who is each song about. Right. I think we need to treat this like a show. A showgirl show. The showgirl was a fixture of nineteenth and twentieth century Parisian music halls, became a standard of Las Vegas.

想想那些镶满水钻的性感编舞。欧文·柏林1919年作品《漂亮女孩》等，最能捕捉这种艳舞女郎的神韵。

Think about, you know, scantily clad rhinestone choreographed dance. The showgirl sound, I think, is best captured by many of the works of Irving Berlin, like his 1919, a pretty girl

这就像一首写就的旋律，成为了齐格菲歌舞团的主题曲，该歌舞团是最早将欧洲歌舞女郎概念引入并主流化给美国观众的美国机构之一。所以，是的。谢谢你，斯隆博士。一位美丽的姑娘

It's like a melody written, which became the theme song of the Ziegfield Follies, which was one of the first American institutions to really introduce the idea of the showgirl from Europe and and like mainstream it for American audiences. So, yeah. Thank you, doctor Sloan. A pretty girl

宛如一段旋律

is like a melody

那是谁？埃塞尔·默尔曼吗？

Who's that? Ethel Merman?

那正是埃塞尔·默尔曼。

That is Ethel Merman.

你怎么知道？因为我...因为我曾过着歌舞女郎的生活，老兄。我能...我能说什么呢？

How do you know? Because I because I lived the life of a showgirl, man. What can I what can I tell you?

好吧。如果你真有过歌舞女郎的经历，而我要播放另一首经典的歌舞女郎歌曲，你觉得该选哪首？

Okay. If you really lived the life of a showgirl, and I were going to play one other classic showgirl song, what would it be?

是这个时代的另一首经典歌舞女郎歌曲，还是更近期的作品？给我点提示。

The other classic showgirl song from this era or something more recent? Give me a little hint.

让我们回到1929年，十年后。1929年，

Let's go to 1929, a decade later. 1929, a

十年后，大型歌舞女郎的歌曲。

decade later, the big showgirl song.

还是欧文·柏林的歌吗？

Still Irving Berlin?

又是欧文·柏林的？我不确定。是在手腕上装饰吗？叮叮

Another Irving Berlin? I don't know. Is it putting on the wrists or no? Ding ding

叮 是

ding Is

这真的是你最喜欢的饼干吗？最棒的酒店手腕装饰。弦乐、管弦乐编排、直立贝斯，还有大量的表演技巧。

it really your favorite cracker? The best hotel putting on the wrists. Strings, orchestration, upright bass, and a lot of showmanship.

这首歌是鲁迪·瓦利演唱的，对吗？不，是埃迪·康托。那是年轻的宾·克罗斯比。

And that's sung by Rudy Valley. Am I right? No. Eddie Cantor. It's a young Bing Crosby.

我不知道。

I don't know.

好莱坞重要的演员、歌手兼舞者。

Important Hollywood actor and singer and dancer.

是弗雷德·阿斯泰尔。天啊。我的天，是弗雷德·阿斯泰尔。太丢人了。

It's Fred Astaire. Duh. Oh my It's Fred Astaire. Oh my god. That was humiliating.

好吧。这是我们播客有史以来内容最密集的一期。查尔斯，我得提醒你，我们只听了这张专辑里的一首歌。

Okay. This is one of the densest episodes of our podcast we've ever done. And let me remind you, Charles, we listen to exactly one song off this album.

你知道，她上一张专辑有两小时的音乐。而这张只有41分钟12首歌，其中一首我们听过了。剩下的要听完吗？

You know, her last album had, like, two hours of music. So, here we just have forty one minutes and 12 tracks where one in. Should we go through the rest?

我觉得可以。挺有意思的。我明白你的意思。某种程度上，这张专辑在主题上比上一张更令人满足，尽管上一张可能主题更宏大。这张感觉更紧凑些。

I mean, yeah. It's interesting. I see what you mean. This is, in some ways, already more thematically satisfying than the last one, even though there was maybe a sort of loftier theme. This one feels a little tighter.

而且听完你刚才给我科普的奥菲利亚歌舞女郎背景，我现在很期待用这个视角听完剩下的专辑。

And with my Ophelia Showgirl primer that you've just given me, I'm excited to listen to the rest of the album through that lens.

让我们进入这个新时代的剩余部分，关于一位歌舞女郎的生活，第二篇章，伊丽莎白·泰勒。好了，现在我们来深入探讨伊丽莎白·泰勒的一切。黄金好莱坞时代，超级巨星，她的艺术成就常常被媒体忽视，而更关注她那些充满绯闻的感情生活。她以那双紫罗兰色的眼睛闻名。

Let's enter the rest of this new era of, the life of a showgirl with track two, Elizabeth Taylor. Alright. So let's get into the Elizabeth Taylor of it all. Golden Hollywood era, mega star, whose art was often less important to the media than her scandalous relationships. She famously had violet eyes.

伊丽莎白·泰勒虽从未在电影中饰演过歌舞女郎，但她曾扮演克里奥帕特拉，这一角色启发了泰勒这张专辑宣传中的许多服装造型。这里还有纽约与好莱坞的叙事对比——一旦被好莱坞抛弃，或许纽约会接纳你。内特，无论何时好莱坞不再需要你，这里永远欢迎你回来。我特别喜欢演艺圈那句老话。

And Elizabeth Taylor, though never having played a showgirl in a film, did portray Cleopatra, which inspired many of the costumes in Taylor's rollout of this album. You have the New York versus Hollywood narrative. Once you get thrown out of Hollywood, maybe New York will accept you. Nate, you're always welcome back here whenever Hollywood is done with you. And I love just the old adage of show business.

亲爱的，你的热度只维持到上一首热门歌曲为止。是啊，唉。她拥有多首冠军单曲，却从未拥有成功的感情关系。这张专辑里蕴含了太多故事。

You're only as hot as your last hit, baby. Yeah. Oof. She's had number ones, but she hasn't had a successful relationship. Lot going on in this course.

当我想到伊丽莎白·泰勒时，也会想起她在改编自爱德华·阿尔比戏剧的电影《灵欲春宵》中的精彩表演，她与当时的丈夫理查德·伯顿共同出演，许多观众认为他们通过这部电影某种程度上在解决现实生活中的感情问题。我觉得泰勒可能也对此深有共鸣。你知道吗？就像我们听到的——你如何描述这种界限？艺术在哪里结束，而你的生活又从哪里开始？

When I think Elizabeth Taylor, I also think of her star turn in the film adaptation of the Edward Albee play, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, with her then husband, Richard Burton, where they were, many people saw them sort of working out their own real life relationship issues through the film itself. I feel like that might be something that Taylor relates to as well. You know? Like, we hear how are you describing it? Where where does art end and your life begin?

在某种程度上模糊了这些界限。嗯。而从音乐性来说，这首歌延续了我们在《奥菲莉亚》中听到的许多质感，标志着这是一个新世界，或者可能是对1989年那个世界的回归。

Blurring those lines to some degree. Mhmm. And then musically, I mean, this song continues a lot of the textures that we heard in Ophelia and marks this as a new world or perhaps a return to the world of 1989.

这张真正让她爆红的专辑，主要是她与马克斯和谢尔巴赫合作完成的。

A record that really blew her up that she worked on primarily with Max and Shelbaugh.

没错。这张专辑宣告了她正式进入流行音乐世界。我们听到了强劲的电子节拍，丰富的合成器音效，还有某种弦乐组的编排。

Yes. That announced her debut into the world of pop. We've got this propulsive programmed beats. We have these rich synths. We have some kind of string section.

我不确定这是真实的管弦乐团还是某种合成弦乐，但这首歌里元素极为丰富。它非常极致主义，或许正适合这位银幕巨星的风格。

I don't know whether it's an actual orchestra or some kind of synthetic strings, but there's a lot happening in this song. It's very maximalist, which maybe is appropriate for one of the biggest stars of the silver screen.

没错。这首歌既回溯了《1989》的流行特质，又延续了《奥菲莉亚的命运》的声效。整张专辑里最统一的要数鼓点音色——那种干涩沉闷的七十年代声响。

Yeah. This song definitely both harkens back to some of the pop qualities of 1989. It also continues the sounds of the Fate of Ophelia. Think the drum sounds are the most consistent across this record. That dry, dead nineteen seventies sound.

嗯。很多鼓点其实是杰克·里德的循环采样，他有个叫《超级死鼓》的音色包。虽然是真人鼓手演奏的，但你我都能复现同样的节奏。

Mhmm. Many of the drums are actually loops by Jake Reed, who has a sample pack called Super Dead Drums. So they're performed by a real drummer, but you or I could perform those same moves.

不会吧！我在Instagram上关注过那家伙。用泰勒·斯威夫特另一首歌的歌词来说——他的鼓点简直'病态般带感'。

No way. I've seen that guy on Instagram. His beats are sick, to quote another Taylor Swift song.

另一方面，这首歌确实有真实管弦乐团参与。指挥兼编曲家马蒂亚斯·拜兰德不仅演奏了专辑中多种乐器，他此前参与过《1989》的制作，如今再度回归。由于专辑在瑞典创作录制，班底多是瑞典音乐人——你能听到大量小提琴、长笛、单簧管、次中音萨克斯、中音长笛、低音单簧管等各类管弦元素。

And then on the other hand, there actually is a live orchestra playing in this track. Matthias Byland is a conductor and arranger and plays a bunch of instruments on the album he previously worked on nineteen eighty nine. He is now back. This album is mostly Swedes because it was written and recorded in Sweden. And so we have tons of, you know, violins, flutes, clarinet, tenor, saxophone, alto, flute, bass clarinet, all kinds of orchestral elements.

我认为这些元素在桥段部分展现得最为明显。

And I think it comes through most clearly in the bridge.

竖琴滑奏。经典好莱坞手法。让人想起每部电影都由大型交响乐团配乐的黄金年代。太酷了。

Harp Loisandos. Very old Hollywood. Harkening to the days when every movie had a score with a massive symphony orchestra. Very cool.

让我们回顾一下之前听到的那些欧文·柏林歌舞曲目中丰富的管弦乐编排。

And harkening back to the rich orchestrations of those Irving Berlin showgirl tracks that we heard earlier.

在桥段的最后有一个美妙的瞬间。在此之前，我们一直在反复听到这个E小调和弦。我所有的白钻石。

There's a nice moment at the very end of the bridge. Up till now, we've been hearing this e minor chord over and over again. All my white diamonds.

顺便说一下，白钻石是伊丽莎白·泰勒拥有的一款香水系列。

White diamonds, by the way, a perfume line that Liz Taylor had.

我所有的白钻石和爱人都将永恒。所以

All my white diamonds and lovers are forever. So

那就是

that's

E小调。你永远无法结束任何。这里有个E大调

the e minor. Don't you ever end up any. There's a e major

的东西，但我的。我不太确定是什么

thing, but mine. I'm not exactly sure what

旋律确实存在，但我非常确定那是个E大调和弦，在我们回到最后副歌之前，这个小小的悬疑时刻相当美妙。让我们回到那个A小调，非常棒。

the melody is there, but I'm definitely sure that's an e major chord, which is this this nice little moment of suspense before we return to the final chorus. Bring us back to that a minor. Very nice.

非常棒。我还注意到《All My White Diamonds》和《Lovers Are Forever》有种詹姆斯·邦德式的呼应感，又一种经典好莱坞复古音效。这张原声带不仅有这些丰富的管弦乐编曲，还融入了贯穿整张专辑的电吉他音色。好的。

Very nice. I also realized that we have the All My White Diamonds and Lovers Are Forever, sort of a James Bond callback. Yet another sort of classic Hollywood throwback sound. Also a soundtrack that would have had not just these rich orchestrations, but some of the electric guitar sounds that are throughout the rest of this album. Okay.

所以我认为这就是歌舞女郎的特质。没错。这张专辑的精髓就在于此。它并非占据 foreground（前景），而是潜藏在桥段和背景中悄然呈现。

So I think that is the sound of the showgirl Yeah. Quality of this album. Indeed. It's something which isn't in the foreground. It's something that happens in the bridges, in the background.

这本质上是泰勒·斯威夫特与Max Martin和Shellback合作的专辑。作为一张当代流行唱片，它延续了泰勒钟爱的文学性歌词构思、与Max和Shellback合作标志性的旋律数学，以及《1989》时期的制作音效。但额外增添了些许歌舞女郎气质——比如《Elizabeth Taylor》桥段中那种华丽感。让我们继续听听专辑其他部分是否也有体现。接下来播放《Opalite》。

This is primarily a Taylor Swift album with Max Martin and Shellback. It is a contemporary pop record which continues all of the lyrical literary ideas that Taylor loves, the melodic math and melodies that we know from Taylor working with Max and Shellback, and of course, the production sounds of things like 1989. But with this extra little something, the showgirlness that we get in the bridge of Elizabeth Taylor. Let's see if we hear it through other parts of the record. Let's listen to the next track, Opalite.

我太爱这首歌的开场了。就像她身处感情关系中的飘摇状态，虽然歌曲是G大调，却从四级和弦C开始。

I love how this song begins. It starts unmoored, just as she is in her relationships. Though the song is in the key of G. She starts on the four chord, the C.

然后转向五级和弦。

Goes to the five.

就这样持续推进，没有解决。当然，直到副歌部分才释放——那些沉闷的鼓点，还有那种诡异的冲浪吉他音效。没错。

It just keeps going. No resolution. Of course, that is until we get to the chorus. We've got those dead drums. We've got that weird kind of surf guitar Yeah.

就像詹姆斯·邦德那样。我们有一个和弦进行，非常复古的感觉，对吧？找到了我们想要的解决方式，从主和弦开始。

A la James Bond. And we have a chord progression, which is so throwback. Right? We've got the resolution that we're looking for. We begin on our home chord.

G调，降到六度，转到二度，然后是这个美妙的五度挂留和弦。

G. Go down to the sixth. Go to two. And then this nice five sus.

哦，经典之作。流行音乐基础教程。

Oh, it's a classic. Pop one zero one.

这将成为这张专辑的主打单曲，我对此相当确信。

This is gonna be the big single off of the record. I feel quite certain of that.

我觉得你说得对。这首歌很抓耳，还有些精巧的设计。她唱完‘我以为我的房子闹鬼，查理’之后是什么部分？

I think you're right. It's a bop, and there's some nice touches as well. What happens after she sings, I thought my house was haunted, Charlie?

我觉得这会是瞬间成为经典的歌。它围绕着一个简单而美妙的比喻——蛋白石。蛋白石是人造猫眼石，经确认是特拉维斯·凯尔斯的诞生石。她把自己比作...

I feel like it's an instant classic. It's built around a very simple but nice metaphor of opalite. Opalite is man made opal, which is confirmed, the birthstone of Travis Kelce. She compares she compares

带着无奈的语气说道。

Says with resignation.

这是自传体小说，对吧？就是那种她既从生活中取材，又构建这些经典复古歌曲的作品。当然，她用暗色缟玛瑙般的夜晚来平衡乳白石的明亮对比。

This is auto fiction. Right? This is the thing where it's like she's pulling from Yeah. Her life, but also just building these classic throwback songs. She, of course, balances the opalite with the contrast of the dark onyx night.

这是一首关于在关系中寻找希望的歌。

This is a song about finding hope in a relationship.

如果副歌传递的积极信息与转向主和弦——那个回归家园般的和弦——的编排显得过于直白，我觉得这首歌里有些有趣的细节让它更引人入胜，增添了轻松感。比如这句'我以为我的房子闹鬼，曾与幽灵同住'，查尔斯我们能听听这段吗？有种幽灵般的节奏设计，几乎像鬼魂敲门、在走廊窸窣作响的声音。

If that positive message of the chorus coinciding with this move towards the the one chord, the tonic, the home chord, if that all feels a little too on the nose, I feel like there's some fun touches in this song that make it a little more intriguing and and increase the levity. Like, what about this line, I thought my house was haunted. I used to live with ghosts. Can we hear that, Charles? There's some haunting rhythmic device that almost sounds like, you know, a ghost knocking at the door rattling in the hallways.

完全同意。我第一次听时就想：这是什么情况？是音轨故障吗？不，这显然是刻意为之。

Totally. I when I first heard that, was like, what is going on? Is there some glitch in this? No. It's it's obviously intentional.

就是这种诡异又带点滑稽的闹鬼音效突然出现在曲子里，虽然有点傻气，但也防止整首歌变得过于甜腻。

It's just this funny little haunted sound that pops up in the track, and it just it's a little silly, but also keeps the track from being too saccharine or something.

接下来会很有戏剧性。可能有个复古彩蛋——不确定泰勒、马克斯和Shellback是否听过欧文·柏林的歌。但你们记得《窈窕淑女如旋律》的主旋律吗？'窈窕淑女如旋律'。

Well, it's gonna get a very theatrical. I mean, maybe one throwback. I don't know if Taylor, Max, and Shellback were listening to Irving Berlin. But do you recall the lead line of A Pretty Girl is a Melody? A Pretty Girl is like a Melody.

萦绕不散

That haunts

你在白昼里。白昼。哇。深邃。

you in the day. Day. Wow. Deep.

如同萦绕心头的旋律余音。这可能有些牵强。但我们在伊丽莎白·泰勒中听到的那种歌舞女郎的戏剧性声音，在《蛋白石》中重现了。

Just like the strain of a haunting refrain. This might be a reach. But that showgirl theatrical sound that we heard in Elizabeth Taylor, that comes back in Opalite.

哦。

Oh.

来吧，现在摇摆起来。耶。

Come on, shake it up, baby now. Yeah.

这很有复古感。那里有披头士的影子。部分编曲和加入的这些调音钟声，听起来也像菲尔·斯佩克特时代的女子组合。你看，我们在混搭复古元素。但对泰勒·斯威夫特来说，如果你看过《奥菲莉娅的命运》视频，歌舞女郎的形象不只是拉斯维加斯歌舞女郎那种单一画面。

It's very throwback. It's Beatles y there. Some of the orchestration and these tuned bells that come in as well sound like the girl groups of Phil Spector era. You know, we're we're mixing our throwback references. But for Taylor Swift, if you've watched the video of the Fate of Ophelia, the idea of the showgirl is not just the the one image of the sort of Vegas showgirl.

这个概念是指，从莎士比亚时代之前直至今日，始终有女性被要求进行表演。所以我认为，比如摩城时代的女子组合也符合这个脉络，并且是我们在《蛋白石》结尾听到的恰当参照。

It's the idea that there have been women asked to perform throughout the ages from Shakespeare and before all the way to today. And so I think, certainly, like, the girl groups of the Motown era fit in there as well, and I think are an appropriate reference that we're hearing at the end of Opalite.

好了，查尔斯。我们加快节奏。我们正在快速浏览各种歌舞女郎。现在到哪了？应该是第四首歌。

Alright, Charles. We're picking up the pace. We're cruising through the various showgirls. Where are we at now? Track four, I believe.

第四首歌《父亲形象》，泰勒表示灵感源于一个关于权力的创意写作提示，讲述年轻新秀与导师的关系及其随时间的变化。但她说，关键在于谁会智胜对方。

Track four, Father Figure, which for Taylor, she said came from a creative writing prompt about a story that was about power, where a young ingenue has a mentor and it's all about the relationship and how that can change over time. But who's going to, she says, outfox the other.

她真该去当英语老师。

She really is an English teacher.

她说自己能与两个角色产生共鸣。这首《父亲形象》里，我听到了她从导师马克斯·马丁那里学到的完美旋律数学。她在《新高度》播客中称马克斯为导师之一。但这首歌探讨的不是这种良师益友关系。

And she says that she really loves that she can relate to both characters. Here's father figure. I'm hearing some of that perfect melodic math that she learned from her mentor, Max Martin. She calls Max one of her mentors in the New Heights podcast. But this song is not that kind of mentorship.

这首歌讲述导师利用年轻学员，而后权力关系发生逆转。它通过轻微采样乔治·迈克尔《父亲形象》的节奏韵律，对原曲主题进行了颠覆——原版是正面父亲形象，而她的版本诠释了黑暗面。

This is a song of a mentor taking advantage of the younger mentee, and then that relationship is sort of flipping around. And it's an inversion of another song because this song interpolates George Michael's father figure. Very light interpolation. Father Figure has the same rhythmic cadence.

没错。

Yes.

副歌采样了乔治·迈克尔的版本，但她的《父亲形象》呈现的是黑暗版。值得一提的是，歌曲延续了歌舞女郎风格——桥段部分从电贝司转为直立贝司，管弦乐加入，丰盈的和声再次唤起复古歌舞剧的意象。

It is the hook, But it you know, George Michael's version of Father Figure is the good version of the Father Figure, not the sort of dark version that she, is interpreting on on her track, which by the way, continues that showgirl sound Once again, when you get to the bridge. We shift from an electric bass to an upright bass. The orchestra comes in. We get these lush chorusing vocals that feels, again, very throwback to this sort of showgirl idea.

竖琴滑奏再现。是的，这些元素...

The harp glissando's return. Yes. It's There's all

一把竖琴。

a harp.

突然间，所有漂亮女孩都像一段旋律般动人。

It's all very pretty girls like a melody all of a sudden.

还有个绝妙的转调。

And there's a killer modulation.

想打架是吧，你找对人了。我

You wanna fight, you found it. I

查尔斯，我真心希望这张专辑能有转调。这是泰勒歌曲创作中我最爱的特色之一，可以追溯到前面提到的《爱情故事》。

Charles, I was really hoping we were gonna get a modulation on this album. That's one of my favorite hallmarks of Taylor's songwriting, going back to the aforementioned love story.

这些话在我脑海里盘旋。我不知该如何思考。他单膝跪地掏出戒指说：玛丽，我，朱丽叶，你永远不必感到...

Come as this in my head. I don't know what to think. He knelt to the ground and pulled out a ring and said, Mary, me, Juliet, you never have to feel Which

和这首歌一样以半音转调收尾。这种手法我觉得她最近用得不多。不。在，知道，午夜时分。

ends with a modulation of the half step just as this track does. And it's something I feel like we haven't heard as much from her lately No. On, know, midnight.

你赢得了一次变调。你知道吗？我认为这首歌值得变调，因为她正从学员转变为导师。她成为了父亲般的角色。因此，这是一种向导师身份的升华。

You earn a modulation. You know? Like and I think the song deserves the modulation because she's going from being the mentee to being the mentor. She becomes the father figure. And so there is an ascendance into this this role of being the mentor.

所以我们需要这种变调。一种带着欢快光芒的变调。

And so we need that modulation. And one that sort of has a happy glean to it

同样地。这是个不错的回报。这首歌很酷。尽管听到‘dick’这个词让我不舒服。

as well. It's a good payoff. This is a cool track. Even if it makes me uncomfortable to hear say the word dick.

歌词中有很多令人尴尬的内容。我们将在休息后马上讨论这些。

There are a lot of cringey lyrics. And we're gonna get into that right after the break.

舵手们，赛起来。帆船手们，赛起来。帆船手们，赛起来。

Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.

船长，一艘不明船只正在接近。完毕。

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over.

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Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more.

立即开始转化您的B2B受众。首场广告活动消费250美元，即可获得下一场活动的250美元免费额度。立即登录linkedin.com/campaign开启旅程。条款与条件适用。

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好。现在这张专辑我认为迎来了转折。我们不会过分执着于前半段那种歌舞女郎的戏剧音效，但会保留上半场讨论过的莎士比亚文学元素。我们将重逢旧角色，直面某些幽灵。

Okay. So now the album, I think, takes a turn. I think that this showgirl musical sound, we don't hold on to it quite as tightly. But holding on to some of the Shakespearean literature that we talked about in the first half, We're gonna visit old characters. We're gonna look at some ghosts.

我们将邀请新人物登场，上演戏剧冲突。这一切始于《长女》这首歌，它以优美的钢琴叙事曲开场，旨在对互联网的恶劣文化进行人性化解构。

We're going to invite new people into the scene. We're gonna get some drama. And it begins with the song, Eldest Daughter. Starts as a nice piano ballad. It's about humanizing the terrible culture of the internet.

网络世界人人标榜叛逆，假装漠不关心直到破防。所有玩笑不过是钓鱼和梗图。可悲的是，冷漠竟成了潮流，每个人都变得冷酷无情——

Everybody's so punk on the internet. Everyone's unbothered till they're not. Every joke's just trolling and memes. Sad as it seems, apathy is hot. Everybody's cutthroat in the

没错。这段钢琴旋律带来全新听感，简洁而质朴。

Yeah. This piano feels like a new sound. It's sparse. It's acoustic.

我觉得它在构建一种矛盾感。舒缓的钢琴叙事曲，你期待听到的可能是关于爱情多美好的泛泛之词，但实际上它是对网络文化的深刻探讨。

I feel like it's establishing a contradiction. Right? This slow piano ballad. You expect maybe like non specific lyrics about how great my love is. But instead, it's a discourse on internet culture.

副歌部分充斥着极具辨识度的网络俚语。这原本该是首甜蜜情歌，唱着'我爱你'、'永远相伴'的承诺，表明不会被网络纷扰影响。泰勒在专辑宣传采访中透露，她手机里根本没有这些社交应用。

And we get all of this internet slang that really becomes apparent in the chorus. That's a sweet song about how I love you. I'm gonna always be with you. And all of the distraction of what happens on the Internet's not gonna bother me. Taylor, in interviews for this rollout, has talked about how she doesn't have the apps on her phone.

她从不看评论。也许这就是为什么当她使用这些网络俚语时会让人觉得有点尴尬。这对她来说并不自然。我认为那种尴尬感正是她刻意营造的。她知道自己就是这样一个笨拙的形象。

She doesn't look at the comments. Perhaps that's why it does feel a little cringey when she goes into this Internet slang. It doesn't feel natural to her. I think that that cringey quality is something that she leans into. That she knows that she is this kind of awkward figure.

她在很多歌曲中都演绎过笨拙的形象。而且她非常坦然地说，我不是那种酷女孩，我只想安定下来。

She has played awkward a lot in her songs. And she's very comfortable saying, I'm not the cool girl. I'm just wanna like settle down.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这首歌实现了

I think the song achieves

这点。我同意。在副歌部分采用如此浪漫的旋律线是个大胆的选择。单就旋律而言美极了。完全赞同。

that. I agree. I think it's a bold choice to have that romantic of a melody line in the chorus. Beautiful line on its own. Totally.

简直惊艳。然后歌词部分也是。

Like gorgeous. And then the lyrics Yeah.

这是她最出色的旋律之一。

Some of her best melodies.

一个坏女人。你会觉得，哦。我不确定自己是否喜欢，但我欣赏其中的胆识。把这样的歌词配上如此激昂的旋律线，确实相当狂野。

A bad bitch. You're like, oh. It's a I don't know if I like it or not, but it's I I admire the chutzpah of it. To put that lyric to that soaring melodic line is is pretty wild.

正是这种矛盾让人感到不适。我认为我们被刻意引导去感受这种温柔钢琴旋律下的不适感，与不和谐的歌词形成反差。她在说：我是个有点笨拙的女孩，想在这首歌里安定下来。当然，我不知道泰勒真正想要什么。

It's that contradiction that makes it uncomfortable. I I think that we are made to feel that discomfort of the melody at gentle piano, that discordant lyric. She's saying, I'm kind of an awkward girl. I wanna settle down in this song. Now, I don't know what Taylor really wants.

再次强调，这是自传式虚构。她可能十年后还想再办一次时代巡回演唱会。也许她根本不打算安定下来。但这首歌确实实现了它的创作意图。下一首歌是《毁掉友谊》。

Once again, auto fiction. She might wanna have another eras tour in ten years. Maybe she's not gonna just settle down. But the song, I think, is achieving what it's setting out to do. The next song is Ruin the Friendship.

我觉得这首歌在本专辑中略显另类。一方面，它以那种干涩的鼓点开场。带有七十年代的电贝斯和原声吉他，这些都很契合。

I think it's a little bit of an outlier on this album. On the one hand, it begins with those Yeah. Dry dead drums. It's got that seventies electric bass, acoustic guitar. That's all fitting.

歌曲中，叙述者正在回顾高中时期一段错过的缘分。

In the song, our narrator is looking back at a past missed connection Yeah. From high school.

是啊。

Yeah.

这首歌给人的感觉像是《爱情故事》更成熟、甚至更黑暗的版本。讲述的是她遗憾错过的爱情，而非圆满实现的恋情。这首歌蕴含了大量泰勒·斯威夫特的个人典故。是的，这是毕业舞会。

And it really feels like a more mature, maybe even darker version of a song like Love Story. Something that she regrets missing out on rather than a love fulfilled. There's a lot of Taylor Swift lore in this song. Yeah. It's prom.

有个迪斯科球。她是那个镜面球。然后是预副歌部分。到了第二段副歌时，我们感受到一点转变，不再只是‘我们本该接吻’，而是‘我们本该在毕业舞会上当50 Cent的歌响起时接吻’，这既让人联想到她的歌曲《Tim McGraw》，或许也带点《Party in the USA》的味道。

There's a disco ball. She's the mirror ball. And then the pre chorus. So then in the second chorus, we get a little bit of a shift where it's not just we should have kissed, but we should have kissed at the prom when the fifty Cent song played, which feels both like a throwback to her song Tim McGraw and maybe also a little bit party in The USA.

对。当时放的还是JC的歌。没错。

Right. And a JC song was on. Yeah.

说到尴尬

And speaking of awkward

别在第二节晚自习时搞得尴尬。但是

Don't make it awkward in second period night. But

这首歌的高潮当然是，不仅存在这段错过的缘分，而且她曾经爱过的这个人后来在成年生活中去世了，她不得不去参加葬礼。

the payoff to this song is, of course, that not only is there this missed connection, but this person who she formerly loved passes away in adult life and has to go and go to the funeral.

当我离开学校，就与你失去了联系。阿比盖尔打电话告诉我那个噩耗。永别了。而我们永远无法知道原因。

When I left school, I lost track of you. Abigail called me with the bad news. Goodbye. And we'll never know why.

这是个非常震撼的时刻。我觉得非常感人，也非常有经典泰勒创作风格的怀旧感。查理，你可能记得我在2021年的《当代音乐评论》上发表过一篇文章，题目是《是的》。那篇关于...等等，叫什么来着？

This is such a striking moment. Very I think it's very moving, and it's also very much a throwback to classic Taylor songwriting. Charlie, you may recall that I published an article on the contemporary music review back in 2021 called Yes. The the work of wait. What was it called?

泰勒·斯威夫特及其创作被称为泰勒·斯威夫特与歌曲创作的艺术。是的，我引用了乔斯林·尼尔那篇精彩的文章，讲述了许多乡村音乐如何运用她所称的‘时间转换范式’——在歌曲中随时间推移向前推进，这正是我们在此所做的。你看，我们从过去的记忆快进到现在，经历戏剧性转折，了解这个人发生了什么。这为歌曲带来了一种意想不到的情感爆发。

The Taylor Swift and the work of it was called Taylor Swift and the work of songwriting. And Yes. I cited this wonderful article by Jocelyn Neal about how a lot of country music does something she calls the the time shift paradigm where you kind of move forward in time over the course of the song, and that's what we do here. You know, we we fast forward from these memories of the past to the present where have this dramatic twist and we learn what happened to this person. And it gives the song this this kind of emotional payoff that you weren't expecting.

这是泰勒早年常在《蒂姆·麦格劳》等歌曲中使用的技巧。最后的副歌会出现转折，让你以全新方式聆听。我很高兴在这首歌里再次看到这种手法。尽管音效上不像乡村歌曲，但我觉得它的叙事结构非常具有乡村音乐特质。

And it's something that Taylor used to do back in the day in songs like Tim McGraw. You know, the final chorus would would have this twist and you would hear it in a new way. And I I love that we're getting that in this song. And even though it doesn't sound like a country song, you know, in terms of the texture, I feel like the the narrative, the construction of it is very country.

好的，这很‘经典创作型泰勒’。下一首歌开始展现锋芒——泰勒爱猫成痴。实际上最受关注的是这首浪漫情歌。

Okay. So this is like very classic songwriter, Taylor Swift. The next track, the claws come out. Taylor loves cats. The song, actually romantic, is getting the most attention.

我们之前讨论过所有流行音乐本质上都是说唱恩怨（参考过往采访），而这就是《马戏女王》中的说唱恩怨环节。《其实浪漫》像是把Weezer的《比佛利山庄》和Pixies《Where Is My Mind》的核心和弦进行混搭。你曾邀请Charli XCX为《名誉》巡演开场（我亲历过），现在据说你们陷入了更大的名人纷争。

We recently talked about how all pop music is rap beef in a past interview, and this is the rap beef portion of Showgirl. Actually romantic is if you took the song Beverly Hills by Weezer, mashed it up with the core progression of the Pixies Where Is My Mind, And you formerly had invited Charlie XCX to open for the Reputation tour, which I saw, and are now in some kind of larger celebrity feud with supposedly.

我听见你借着酒劲叫我‘无聊芭比’，还得意洋洋地提起我前任，说你很高兴他离开。

I heard you call me boring Barbie when the Cokes got you brave. High vived my ex and then you said you're glad he goes.

现在我们要做和其他人一样的事：指出Charli XCX在她专辑《Brat》中有首《同情是把刀》，还有首《万物皆浪漫》。如果你是Charli XCX——她刚与1975乐队成员乔治·丹尼尔结婚，而该乐队主唱马蒂·希利曾是泰勒前男友——所有人（强调‘所有人’）都认为这是对《同情是把刀》的回击，用‘万物皆浪漫’的概念回应Charli在后台因某位明星而产生的自卑感。

So this is the part where we do the thing that everybody else does and says that Charlie XCX had a song called Sympathy is a Knife on her album Brat. And she also had a song off of brat called Everything is Romantic. And if you're Charlie XCX, you recently married George Daniel of the band of 1975, of which Maddie Healy, the lead singer, previously dated Taylor Swift. And everyone believes that this is big quotes around everyone. That this is a a clap back at the song Sympathy as a Knife, sealing sort of the idea of everything is romantic and responding to the insecurities that Charlie expresses about some kind of celebrity that maybe made her feel insignificant backstage.

而泰勒在此暗示：你对我的痴迷听起来不全是批判，或许还带着浪漫。我觉得这整件事很有趣。

And Taylor is here saying, well, your infatuation with me doesn't sound just critical, but perhaps romantic. I think this is all funny.

我认为这是一个难以实现的概念，但她完成得相当出色。我不会妄加评论这是否真的与Charlie x c x有关。但我要说，如果真是如此，这两人在混音版上合作将是个绝佳的机会。

I think it's a tough concept to pull off, and she executed it really well. I will not opine on whether this is actually about Charlie x c x or not. I will say there is an incredible opportunity for these two to work it out on the remix, you know, if that is the case.

这跟歌舞女郎特质有什么关系？嗯，我也不完全确定。

What does this have to do with showgirlness? Well I'm not entirely Yeah.

你把我问住了。

I you got me there.

但我要大胆联想一下——有部根据电影《贱女孩》改编的音乐剧，就叫《贱女孩》。

But Here's my extreme far reach. There was a musical based off of the film Mean Girls Yes. Called Mean Girls.

我知道这部。

I'm familiar.

剧中有首歌叫《遇见塑料姐妹》，里面有句歌词。所以它不仅带有与泰勒那首其实很浪漫相似的流行朋克风格，而且泰勒那首歌里也提到了吉娃娃。

And in it, there's a song called Meet the Plastics. Line. So not only does it have the same sort of pop punk y vibe as Taylor's actually romantic, but Taylor's actually romantic also has a chihuahua line.

不确定是否有关联，但这两句歌词都很棒。

I don't know if it's related, but it's a great both great lines.

是啊，我可不想写这首歌。我也不想为这首歌站台。我就是不喜欢那种方式的争执。这不在我的愿望清单上，专辑里的下一首歌。

Yeah. I wouldn't wanna have written this song. I would not wanna stand by this song. I just don't like feuding in that kind of way. It's not on my wish list, the next song on the album.

我觉得这是反秀场女郎的歌。

Think this is the anti showgirl song.

想要直升机旋翼下的游艇生活。她们渴望那些闪光灯和巴黎世家墨镜，还有一张娃娃脸的丰臀。她们想要。她们渴望

Want that yacht life under chopper blades. They want those bright lights and Balenci shades and a fat ass with a baby face. They want it. They want

这首歌讲的是，你知道，作为一个拥有名利场所有光环的亿万富翁艺人，与真爱相比，这些都显得完全不足挂齿且微不足道。

This is about how, you know, being a billionaire entertainer with all the trappings of fame are completely insufficient and insignificant in comparison to true love.

与《Opalite》类似的主题，庆祝她人生中找到了这份让她愿意安定下来的爱，住进郊区有白篱笆、篮球架和一群孩子的房子。是的。老实说，我觉得这些都很无趣。这首歌对我来说很难听下去。有几处地方让我很不舒服。

Similar themes to Opalite, this celebration of where she is in her life having found this love that makes her wanna settle down in a suburban house with a white picket fence and a basketball hoop and a bunch of kids. Yep. And I find it all very unappealing, if I'm honest. This is a this is a tough listen for me, this one. There's a there's a couple things here that I that rankle me.

歌名里两次出现美元符号，不仅在‘wish’里，还在‘list’里，这真的很刺眼。再说，我对泰勒·斯威夫特有种感觉，当她用某些词汇时——比如‘肥臀’——我会觉得别扭。为什么...为什么听起来不对劲。我不...我不相信她说某些话时的真诚，因为如你所描述的，她是英语老师范儿，像那种滑稽的阿姨。

The the inclusion of the dollar sign in in the title of the song, not once but twice in both words wish and list is pretty rough. Again, I guess I have this thing with Taylor Swift where I find it uncomfortable when he when she uses certain language, like fat ass. Why why do why does it it doesn't sound right. I don't I don't believe her when she says certain things because as you have already described, she's the English teacher. She's like the goofy aunt.

她不该...我不知道。当她快速抛出这类短语时，对我来说缺乏真实感。

She shouldn't have I don't know. She doesn't sound authentic to me when she rattles off certain phrases like this.

我的理解是她刻意放大了那种尴尬感。我觉得她清楚这些歌词放在她的歌里听起来不对劲，正是这种不适感引出了她试图通过安定生活来化解的内心冲突。这是我的解读。

My read is that she's leaning into that awkwardness. Like, I think she knows that it doesn't sound right when it's in her song, And it it leads to that discomfort and really that conflict that she's trying to resolve with a simple settled down life. That's how I read it.

好吧好吧。你这个解读更宽容些，我完全认同

Okay. Okay. You're that's a more generous interpretation, and I'm and I'm here for

查尔斯，我在第二段副歌里听出了些歌舞女郎的韵味。萨克斯风，精妙的管弦编排，还有这里突然的变调。

you, Charles. I hear a little bit of the showgirl sound in the second verse. Some saxophone. Some subtle orchestration. And then a harmonic change right here.

这些都是歌舞秀的和弦。和声变化非常丰富对吧？但又不是那种直白的表现——鼓点、编曲、这些旋律才是真正推动整张专辑的核心元素。

Those are showgirl chords. You know, there's like a lot of harmonic change. Right? And again, it's not the thing which is like on the nose. Like, the drums, the production, these these melodies are much more the things that are for sure driving the album.

但有个音效始终贯穿其中

But there is a sound that that that continues here.

他们渴望远离电网的自由，想要那三只鸭子，幼崽蹲在完好如初的草坪上。不要伪君子，他们全都要。

They want that freedom living off the grid. They want those three ducks, The cubs sit on their good serve. No hypocrites. They want it all.

这个转调很妙。C大调里的降A大七和弦。

That's a cool that's a cool moment. Yeah. A flat major seven in the key of c major.

这是从小调借来的一点灵感。

That's A little borrowing from the minor.

这这招真够滑头的。是啊，非常歌舞女郎范儿，确实是典型的歌舞女郎瞬间。

That's that's pretty slick. Yeah. Very showgirl. Very showgirl moment indeed.

滑得像木头。

Slick as wood.

来了来了，我们到重点了。标准的马克斯·马丁式金曲就在这里。

Here we go. We've arrived. Classic Max Martin joint right here.

所以这首歌通篇都在用双关语暗示她男友的某个部位。无论你喜欢与否，这首歌都在与许多经典流行乐对话——比如史蒂夫·旺德的《迷信》，那首讲述迷信永远无法指引正确方向的歌。

So this is a song that's all about innuendo about her boyfriend's member. It's And whether you like it or not, this song is in conversation with a lot of classic pop. Stevie Wonder Superstition. A song about how following superstitions will never guide you in the right direction.

还有一首也用了克拉维纳键盘的曲子。砰！

And a song that also features a clavinet keyboard. Boom.

好吧。当然，这首歌里也出现了

Okay. Which is, of course, featured in

木头。那里

Wood. There

这里可能还暗指了另一个摩城唱片组合——杰克逊五兄弟的《I Want You Back》。

might also be some references to another Motown group here, the Jackson five, I want you back.

噢，没错。绝对是。

Oh, yeah. Definitely.

那首歌开头也是类似的持续音，吉他以一种极具打击感的方式弹奏八度音程。至少我认为是这样。我不确定。对。是的。

Which begins with a similar kind of pedal point and a guitar playing an octave in this super percussive way. At least I think that's the case. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

就是这样。你能用吉他给我们弹个那样的八度音吗？

There's that. Can you play us an octave like that on the guitar?

然后木头在这下面。

And then wood is down here.

多么棒的音效啊。

Such a great sound.

这声音很棒。你知道，我很少听到如此被模仿的版本。这首歌在专辑中显得另类，既因为它极其大胆的暗示性歌词，也因为它对前人影响的明显借鉴。当然，嗯。不过每次听都很有趣。

It is a good sound. You know, I don't hear it that copied. This feels like another outlier on the album, both because of the incredibly cheeky innuendo and the the amount that it maybe calls on its influences So, obviously Mhmm. That said, every time I hear it, it's really fun.

如你所料，我现在正努力适应泰勒低声说出'大腿'这个词。但...我会习惯的。我正在消化你的观点，试着把这当成自传体小说来解读，这样确实更容易接受。所以这是个渐进的过程。

You know, as you might imagine at this point, I'm coming to grips with hearing Taylor whisper the the word thighs. But, I'll I'll get there. But I'm I'm I'm incorporating what you're saying and trying to read this as auto fiction, and that and that makes it, you know, more more digestible. So so it's a journey.

这就是我和这张专辑的共进之旅。让我们深入这段旅程然后被全网封杀吧。好了，我还不能继续播放，因为——抱歉——但这段吉他声简直像是涅槃乐队《Lithium》的翻版。

It's my it's my journey with this album. Let's go further into our journey and get canceled. Alright. I can't play anymore yet because I'm sorry, but this is if you took the guitar sound of Lithium by Nirvana.

没错。完全同意。确实。

Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah.

那段吉他？是的。

That guitar? Yeah.

强力和弦，没有三度音。

Power chords, no thirds.

但你当时弹的是《Something in the Way》的调子。这样就会招致封杀。这里涉及太多元素了——到底谁会被封杀？是泰勒·斯威夫特正陷入诉讼纠纷的闺蜜布莱克·莱弗利吗？

But you were playing something in the way. And that's how you get canceled. So there's all kinds of things going on here. Who's getting canceled? Is it Blake Lively, Taylor Swift's friend who's in pending ongoing lawsuits?

可能是泰勒本人从喜剧网红卡罗琳·蒂莫尼那里借用了这句话，后者早在2021年就在TikTok上首创了它。

Is it Taylor herself who may have borrowed this line from a comedian influencer Caroline Timoney who originated it on TikTok back in 2021.

我不能再透露更多信息了。哦糟了。但我担心自己可能像伊卡洛斯飞得离太阳太近那样，在‘女强人’姿态上有些过火了。

I can't give any more information. Uh-oh. But I fear I may have girl bossed a bit too close to the sun.

谁要被封杀了？我不知道。这首歌又给了我们一个莎士比亚式的典故——这次指向了《麦克白》。

Who's getting canceled? I don't know. We've gotten this song another Shakespearean reference to Macbeth.

邪恶之物正朝此而来

Something wicked this way comes

我们还能听到些歌舞女郎风格的音效，但色调更为阴暗。这里有沉重的暗铜管乐，随后交响乐渐强。确实，我感觉专辑最后三分之一又回归了开头那种经典歌舞风格——我们最初从欧文·伯林作品中确立的基调，这种风格在专辑倒数第二首歌《Honey》里也意外出现。这首歌是他们最早录制的曲目之一，泰勒曾说正是通过它确定了整张专辑的声效方向，这让我很意外，因为它开头是陷阱节奏配轻柔钢琴和原声吉他。《Honey》颠覆了‘亲爱的’这类称呼中被动攻击性的语言含义，转而表达：当你叫我‘亲爱的’，我没想到这个词能如此动人。而强烈的节奏与歌曲后半段的歌舞女郎音效形成了鲜明对比。

And we have a bit of the showgirl sound, but it's much darker. So we've got that big dark brass and then the swelling orchestra. Certainly, I feel like in the final third of this album, we get back to where we were in the beginning with those classic showgirl kind of sounds that we established from Irving Berlin, which make a very unusual appearance as well in the song Honey, the penultimate track on the album, which was one of the first songs they recorded and one that Taylor said was where she knew that they had found the sound, which is surprising to me because it starts kind of as like a trap beat with a gentle piano and acoustic guitar. So honey is inverting the passive aggressiveness of language, like honey and sweetheart, and saying that, oh, it's actually kinda sweet that when you call me honey, I didn't realize it could be so meaningful. And the aggressiveness of that beat is contrasted with the showgirl sound later on in the song.

我们听到了低音提琴。

We get the upright bass.

低音提琴又出现了。还有那段爵士风钢琴。

There's that upright bass again. We get that little jazzy piano.

我们听到了一些单簧管的声音。

We get some clarinet.

真的很美妙。

It's really nice.

既然它是

Since It's

一个非常美好的时刻。整张专辑中我最喜欢的部分就在那里，那种对比。

a really lovely moment. So my favorite moments on the whole album was right there, is that contrast.

很高兴你指出来了。我完全没有注意到单簧管或直立贝斯。那些音色确实非常美妙且出人意料。

I'm so glad you pointed it out. I did not clock the clarinet or the upright bass. That's those are some really nice and surprising textures.

我们是在卡莱尔酒店吗？我有点...我们在哪儿？发生什么了？

Are we at the Carlyle? I kinda Where are we? What's going on?

这非常具有吸血鬼风格，可以这么说。是的。这为最后一首歌《秀场女孩的生活》做了很好的铺垫，我们的主题曲《秀场女孩的生活》，由萨布丽娜·卡彭特演唱。

It's it is very vampy as as it were. Yeah. Which which is a nice setup for the final track, our our title track. The Life of a Showgirl. The Life of a Showgirl featuring Sabrina Carpenter.

萨布丽娜·卡彭特。听起来像是空白处的鼓点。让我们从一个角色开始。

Sabrina Carpenter. Sounds like blank space drums. Let's start with a character.

凯特。

Kate.

她是那个歌舞女郎。他们把这座城市的钥匙交给了她，

She's the showgirl. They gave her the keys to this city,

所以这是一个关于年轻有抱负的明星看到一个名叫基蒂的歌舞女郎的故事，她盛装打扮，准备和50名演员一起登上舞台，穿着这身华丽的装扮。她走上前说，嘿，能给我签个名吗？我有一天想成为你那样。而得到的建议是，我不确定你真的想成为……嗯，未来的我。

So this is about a young aspiring star seeing a showgirl named Kitty who's dressed up, ready to go out on stage with a cast of 50 in this beautiful get up. And she approaches and says, hey, like, can I get an autograph? I wanna be you one day. And the advice is that I'm not sure you do wanna be Yeah. Me someday.

这让我们回到了你在节目一开始播放的那个片段。对吧？这是幕后的真相，一切并不像看起来那么美好。但很酷的是这首歌出现在专辑的……嗯……最后，传达的信息是不要相信你所看到的。

This takes us back to that clip you played at the very beginning of the episode. Right? It's the peak behind the curtain, and everything is not as rosy as it seems. But there's also something cool about this track coming at the very end Mhmm. Of the album, which is not don't trust what you see.

查理，这实际上是你整个论文的主题。不要相信你所看到的。不要相信我展示给世界的形象。这是你所谓的多声部狂欢，或者多声部自传小说。

This was your this was your whole thesis, Charlie, in fact. Don't trust what you see. Don't trust the picture I'm putting out to the world. This is a polyphonic spree or whatever you called it. The polyphonic auto fiction.

是的。

Yeah.

复调自传体小说？是的。或者说，在我们的历史中，我们称之为‘错视画’，一种欺骗眼睛的艺术。我们误以为自己看到了真实，但实际上看到的可能是一个虚构角色，比如年轻的泰勒·斯威夫特走过来，说着‘我想成为你那样的人’。而她回答‘不，你不会想成为我’。

The polyphonic auto fiction? Yeah. Or or or or maybe like a in our history, we call it the trompe l'oeil, the something which deceives the eye. We trick ourselves into thinking we're seeing something real, but instead what we're seeing is fictional character that maybe like a young Taylor Swift is approaching and being like, wanna be like you. And she's like, no, you don't wanna be like me.

但泰勒·斯威夫特真的是她在对话的那个人吗？不，不可能，因为泰勒·斯威夫特实际上并非歌舞女郎——除了在音乐视频里扮演过这类角色。你会意识到这一切虽然极尽华丽，却很可能是虚构的。

But is Taylor Swift actually the person she's talking to? But no, it can't be because Taylor Swift's not actually a showgirl in a showgirl kind of review except in the music video where she plays one. And you're realizing that this whole thing is certainly incredibly decorated, if not fictional.

所以你可能会期待听到更多歌舞女郎风格的音效。更多欧文·柏林式、齐格菲歌舞团式的华丽编曲，那种老好莱坞的浓郁风情。

So you might expect we would hear some more of that showgirl sound. Some more of that Irving Berlin, Zigfield Follies, lush orchestration, old Hollywood.

哎呀，我们可不就听到了嘛！

Boy, howdy do we get it?

我将她的智慧珍珠，悬挂于颈间。每道伤痕都支付了我的代价，我明白——

I took her pearls of wisdom, hung them from my neck. I picked my dues with every bruise I knew what

老套的‘咚咚咚咚咚’。这太音乐剧化了，太浮夸了。她在唱‘我现在不朽了’，人们会向我抛来花束。

cliche. The dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum That's just so musical theater. It's so showy. You know, she's singing about, I'm immortal now. And people are gonna throw me this bouquet.

这场演出太棒了。整张专辑以泰勒和萨布丽娜的‘谢谢，这太美好了，这就是我们的演出’结束。你知道，这是她们在‘爱神’巡演中真实同台的纪实片段。

It's been a great show. The entire album ends with Taylor and Sabrina saying, thank you. This was wonderful. That's our show. You know, a verite clip from when they actually performed together at the Eros tour.

你会觉得，哦，我当时在场。我目睹了整个过程。那是真实的。又或者不是？那么，内特，我们是否从一位歌舞女郎的生活中得到了想要的东西？

You're like, oh, I was there. I saw the whole thing. It was real. Or was it? So, Nate, have we gotten what we want out of life of a showgirl?

你觉得呢？

What do you think?

你知道，一方面，当我第一次听的时候，我其实期待更多朗朗上口的副歌部分。比如‘你走出困境’‘欢迎来到纽约’‘你的风格’之类的。就是那种可以大合唱、简单直接的副歌。

You know, on one hand, I think when I first listened, I was kind of expecting some more anthemic choruses. You know, you're you're out of the woods. You're welcome to New York. Your style, etcetera. Like, these big sing along, like, simple in your face choruses.

我们并没有太多那样的部分。歌词依然非常密集。

We don't really have those. It's still very wordy.

很有文学气息。

It's very writerly.

是的。与《苦诗人俱乐部》《午夜》一脉相承，转向这种高度文字化的美学风格。但或许这正是它酷的地方，因为它融合了这两者。它既有意识流的表达，充满口号式的句子、隐喻和修辞转折，同时又保留了流行音乐的敏感度。

Yeah. In line with tortured poets department, midnights, this kind of turn towards this hyper verbal aesthetic. But maybe that's actually why it's cool because it fuses those two things. It's still, like, often stream of consciousness, often giving you a lot of, like, catchphrases and metaphors and and turns of phrase. But at the same time, it's got that pop sensibility.

它有抓耳的旋律，有层次递进和精巧的听觉点缀。我认为这让它成为一张越深入聆听就越能发现魅力的专辑。嗯。

It's got the big hooks. It's got the builds and the little ear candy. And I think this makes it a listen where the more you dig into it, the more you're gonna get out of it. Mhmm.

是的。你提到了预期的问题。我认为这是一次艰难的发布。我是说，对她的期待已经高到不能再高了。

Yeah. You you mentioned the sort of expectations going in. I think that this is a difficult kind of release to make. I mean, yeah. The expectations for her couldn't be higher.

没错。而且不仅仅是音乐。她是全球最知名的名人之一，财富堪比亿万富翁。在这个注意力经济的时代，我们生活在一个一切都被碎片化、意识被压缩成单一信息流的时代。

Yeah. And it's not just music. Like, she's one of the biggest celebrities in the world. She has wealth on the scale of billionaires now. And I feel like in the attention economy, we live in this era where everything is so fragmented, where consciousness is just being collapsed into a single feed all at once.

我们每天都能看到法西斯主义和面霜、种族灭绝和古驰包、人工智能和星座应用。而泰勒·斯威夫特就与所有这些并存。有时我听到人们说，他们希望她做得更多，希望她发表政治声明。而她在这里说，我只是在演艺圈。

Where we see every single day, fascism and face creams, genocide and Gucci bags, artificial intelligence and astrology apps. And right there along with all of that is Taylor Swift. And sometimes and I've heard people say, you know, I want more of her. I want her to make political statements. And here she is saying, I'm I'm just in show business.

我只是个表演者。我只想，你知道，经营情感生意。我得说，某种程度上我无法指责她。你看，我们在这里做一档关于流行音乐的播客，一个自我逃避、沉浸情感、仔细聆听的地方。我多少能理解那种渴望。

I'm just a show girl. I just wanna, you know, be in the the business of emotions. And, you know, I I have to say in some ways I can't falter. You know, here we are, a podcast about pop music, a self, an escape, a place to get into our feelings and listen closely to things. I somewhat understand that that that desire.

她自己也是这么说的。

She says it herself.

因为娱乐的本质就是如此。它只是给人们提供逃避现实、沉浸其中、参与世界构建的东西。

Because that's what entertainment is, really. It's just giving people something to escape, to sink their teeth into, to to like, we're world building.

她是个世界构建者。这就是演艺圈。内特，不过这张专辑可能让我们失望还有一个原因。没有爆料。是的。

She's a world builder. It's just show business. Nate, there's one more reason why we might be disappointed by this album though. No tea drops. Yes.

我们未曾听闻之事。但或许我们该感到无比兴奋。也许泰勒、马克斯和谢尔巴克正在收听这档播客，因为十余年来，我们一直在探讨泰勒·斯威夫特的标志性旋律手法——这种她无处不在运用的音乐技巧。你能为我哼唱一下吗？

The thing we didn't hear. But maybe we should be very excited. Maybe Taylor and Max and Shellback are listening to the podcast because over a decade, we have theorized about the Taylor Swift sound. This melodic device that she uses everywhere. Can you sing it for me?

我。

Me.

这张专辑里一次都没出现。虽然有些绝妙的旋律——这张专辑越听越让人上头，这些歌曲深深烙印在我的脑海。这正是当这三人联手打造流行金曲时产生的化学反应。内特，你可能没注意到，整个录制过程中我身后也藏着不少自己的'彩蛋'。

Not once on this album. There are some great melodies. This is an album that the more I hear it, the more these songs just lodge into my mind. And that is the sound of what happens when these three people unite and make a major pop smash. Nate, you might not have realized that during this entire recording, I've had a number of Easter eggs of my own behind me.

不。不会吧。噢，别告诉我这是真的。

No. No. Oh, Say it ain't so.

噢，确实如此。就像泰勒在《新高度》播客里那样。不，关键在于——我只是想弄明白，泰勒·斯威夫特是否在我整个成年生活里都在给我留下专属彩蛋？

Oh, So. Yes. Just as Taylor did on the New Heights podcast. No. The thing is, I just am trying to get to the bottom of has Taylor Swift been leaving me personal Easter eggs throughout my entire adult life?

你们或许不知道，在我与现任妻子的初次约会中，我们曾在卡拉OK合唱《Love Story》。伙计，这只是个开始。在我青年时期，人们总是不停送我泰勒周边。比如泰勒官方尤克里里乐谱？哎呀。

You may or may not know that on one of my very first dates with my now wife, that we sang in karaoke the song Love Story. That's just the beginning, man. Throughout my early adult life, people will start giving me Taylor Swift stuff all the time. How about the Taylor Swift official ukulele music? Oops.

当然，你们懂的，我收到《Red》和《1989》作为节日礼物时，人们总说'你超爱泰勒对吧？她注定在你生命里意义非凡'。

Of course, you know, I get Red and 1989 as holiday presents. People just are like, you love Taylor, don't you? Taylor's gonna be important in your life.

查理，这些是我给你准备的节日礼物。别把我从故事里抹掉。

Charlie, I got you those as pres as holiday presents. Don't don't write me out of the narrative.

正如我正要说，嗯哼。要不是泰勒，我们可能就不会有这个播客。我们第一次讨论《Blank Space》时，这节目就火了。这礼物很应景。谢谢你，内特。

As I was going to say Uh-huh. We might not have a podcast if not for Taylor. This show blew up when we first covered Blank Space. Appropriate gift. Thank you, Nate.

我很珍惜。你知道，朋友们开始送我门票。我告诉过你，我在Reputation巡演上看到查理XCX为泰勒·斯威夫特开场，因为好朋友迈克尔和玛拉就说，哦，你喜欢泰勒，你会想要巡演门票的，对吧？

I cherish it. You know, friends start giving me tickets. I told you I saw Charlie XCX open for Taylor Swift on the Reputation tour because good friends, Michael and Mara, were just like, oh, you love Taylor. You would like tickets to the tour. Right?

就像，是啊，当然。当然，事情在2020年发生了转折，我在网上买了一台合成器。嗯哼，对吧？就在我身后。

Like, yeah, of course. Of course, things really take a turn when in 2020, I bought a synthesizer on the Internet. Mhmm. Right? It's right behind me.

这家伙？全白色的Prophet 12。

This guy? The all white Prophet 12.

是啊，全白色的Prophet 12。好吧。

Yeah. The all white Prophet 12. Okay.

带白色包边的？嗯哼。

With the white edges? Uh-huh.

泰勒的合成器。真的，我我我我听过这个说法，说你们坚信这是来自泰勒·斯威夫特纳什维尔工作室的那台。

Taylor's synthesizer. Literally, I I I I have heard this tale that that you're convinced this is from the Nashville studio of Taylor Swift.

不。不是纳什维尔工作室，而是她的巡演设备。因为我在reverb.com上和卖家讨价还价时——我是在那儿买的这台——这台比其他同款贵了几百美元，但它是唯一全白配色的。我觉得放工作室会很好看，就想好吧，我试着砍砍价。

No. Not Nashville to studio, but rather her touring act because when I was trying to haggle with the person on reverb.com where I bought it, this one was like a few $100 more than the rest of them, but it was the only one that was all in this white colorway. And I thought, oh, it would look good in the studio. So I'm like, alright. I'll I'll just haggle him down.

他说不能降价，这曾是泰勒的合成器。我觉得太假了，根本不信。但他坚持说，

He's like, can't haggle down. This used to be Taylor's synthesizer. And I'm like, that's bogus. I don't believe you. And he's like, no.

很多巡演结束后会把设备处理到这里，这台确实来自她的巡演。我心想得了吧——虽然我是音乐记者——于是上网查证，

You know, a lot of tours dump their gear here afterwards. This came from her tour. And I'm like, sure. Of course, I'm a music journalist, so they say. And I go online.

找到了戴夫·史密斯的照片，他是这台Prophet 12合成器的制作人。有张照片里他正递给泰勒·斯威夫特这台全白合成器。虽然他现在已故，但多年前他还在世时，我曾为节目采访过他，就问起这事。

I find pictures of Dave Smith, who was the producer of said Prophet 12 synthesizer. There's a picture of him handing Taylor Swift this all white synthesizer. And so I he he's now deceased, but I called him for a show years ago when when he was living, and I asked him about this.

泰勒·斯威夫特。当时他们有首歌想让泰勒弹合成器部分，就联系我们说：能定制一台白色款给她在歌里用吗？

Taylor Swift. At one point, they had one song that they wanted Taylor to play the synth on. So, they contacted us and said, can you build us a custom white unit that she could use, to play on this song?

在1989巡演视频里，她演唱《Love Story》时走上阳台，独自弹奏这台美丽的全白Prophet 12合成器——哇，这首歌正是我爱情的开始。但至今没人确认这确实是泰勒的合成器。所以泰勒、马克斯、希尔贝克，如果你们在听且故意避而不谈，或许能告诉我真相？顺便说，我联系过她团队的人，对方表示无可奉告。

And in the concert tour video for 1989, when she plays the song Love Story, she walks up onto this balcony, plays by herself this beautiful all white Prophet 12 synthesizer Wow. Singing the song Love Story that began my own romance. Wow. But nobody has confirmed for sure that this is Taylor's synth, which is to say if Taylor, Max, Shellback, you're listening and you are intentionally avoiding the t drop, maybe you can also tell me for sure, is this Taylor's synthesizer? By the way, I tried calling someone on her team and they were like, I can't talk to you.

不，抱歉。她签了保密协议，所有事情都不能说。泰勒，请告诉我，这是你的合成器吗？

Nope. Sorry. Like, she's NDA ed around everything. So Taylor, please let me know. Is this your synthesizer?

你想拿回去吗？我们很想邀请你上播客。

Do you want it back? We'd love to invite you onto the pod.

开头有点疯狂，但最后却进入了一个非常甜蜜且引人入胜的空间。所以，干得漂亮。邀请已经发出去了。

Started a little deranged, but but ended in a a very sweet and kind of intriguing sort of space. So yeah. Well done. And the and and the invitation is out there.

我心里现在有个空白。我需要知道，这些小小的线索是专门为我留下的吗，包括那个合成器？好吧，继续。

A blank space in my heart right here. I need to know. Have these little breadcrumbs been left for me for me personally, including said synthesizer? Okay. Moving on.

《Switched on Pop》由Rana Cruz制作，Lissa Sohap编辑，Brandon McFarlane负责工程，插画由Iris Gottlieb创作。主题音乐由Arc Iris的Jossi Adams和Zach Tenario制作。我们是Vox Media Podcast Network的一员，与Vulture合作制作。你可以订阅NY Mag（Vulture是其旗下品牌），网址是nymag.com/pod。

Switched on Pop is produced by Rana Cruz, edited by Lissa Sohap, engineered by Brandon McFarlane, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb. Our theme music is by Jossi Adams and Zach Tenario of Arc Iris. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast that work in a production of Vulture. You can subscribe to NY Mag, which Vulture's a part of, at nymag.com/pod.