硅谷对决梵蒂冈，布莱恩·约翰逊的蘑菇之旅 | 饮食TBPN

教皇门，关于教皇的辩论。

Pope Gate, the debate over the pope.

教皇就像一张海报。

The pope is he's a poster.

我喜欢这样。

I like it.

他几乎每天都会发帖，有时一天甚至能发五次。

He posts almost every day, sometimes, like, up to five times a day.

是啊。

Yeah.

他涉猎广泛。

He's got range.

他涉猎广泛。

He's got range.

没错。

That's right.

他会告诉你他会为你祈祷，比如发生自然灾害时，他会为此祈祷。

He'll tell you about he'll pray for you know, if there's a natural disaster, he'll pray for that.

谈论商业。

Talks about business.

谈论人工智能。

Talks about AI.

谈论媒体。

Talks about media.

他谈论各种各样的事情。

He talks about all sorts of stuff.

这真是了不起的壮举。

It's it's a really great feat.

他有一篇关于媒体的精彩帖子。

He had a great post about, about media.

你对媒体有什么看法？

What do you say about media?

他说媒体不能也不该与真理的命运分离。

He said the media cannot and must not separate itself from the destiny of truth.

这话说到点子上了。

That hits.

这是否意味着他是新事实媒体派的人？

Does this does this mean he's a neofactual media guy?

我想是的。

I think so.

我认为他是我们中的一员。

I think he's one of us.

来源与所有权的透明度、问责制、质量、清晰度和客观性，是真正为全人类开启公民权利的关键。

Transparency of sources and ownership, accountability, quality, clarity, and objectivity are the keys to truly opening citizens' rights for all peoples.

世界需要诚实勇敢、心系公共利益的企业家和传播者。

The world needs honest and courageous entrepreneurs and communicators who care for the common good.

我们有时会听到'生意就是生意'这种说法。

We sometimes hear the saying, business is business.

实际上并非如此。

In reality, it is not so.

没有人会被组织同化到仅仅成为齿轮或简单功能的程度。

No one is absorbed by an organization to the point of becoming a mere cog or a simple function.

这类内容你可能会在Pinterest看板上看到。

This is the type of stuff you'd see on, like, a Pinterest board.

虽然挺泛泛而谈的，但很难反驳。

It's like pretty generic, but it's hard to disagree with.

马克·安德森不同意教皇关于人工智能的某个观点。

Marc Andreessen was disagreeing with one of the Pope's takes about AI.

我认为教皇发表评论并提供某种指导或他自己的框架是件好事，是的。

I think it is generally healthy that the Pope is gonna comment and provide some sort of guidance or his own framework Yeah.

关于我们应该如何思考发展人工智能。

For how we should think about developing AI.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这看起来是健康的。

I think that seems healthy.

没错。

Yeah.

这里的实时评论是马克·安德森引用了一篇关于AI的帖子，配图是Kat Stoffel——那位因采访西德妮·斯威尼而走红的GQ专题总监。

The the play by play here was Marc Andreessen quote posted that AI post with an image of Kat Stoffel, who's the GQ features director who went viral for interviewing Sydney Sweeney.

实际上人们有点困惑，不明白这个特定梗在这个语境中的含义。

People were actually, like, kind of confused on what that particular meme means in this context.

对于梗模板，有两种解读方式。

With a meme template, there's two ways to read into it.

一种是，那个实际的视觉元素

There's, like, the the the actual visual

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，那个人的面部表情传达了什么信息。当然。

Which is like, what is the expression Sure.

就是人脸的表情。

Of the person's face.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

你不一定非要看过《大空头》。

You don't have to have watched The Big Short Sure.

才能理解

To understand

如果我是一个盯着

If I'm somebody staring

屏幕的人，就像

at the screen just like

困惑。

Confused.

困惑。

Confused.

你只是在说，我被这个搞糊涂了。

You're just saying, I'm confused by this.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以《大空头》里的迈克尔·伯里

So Michael Burry in the big short

对。

Yes.

只是困惑地看着屏幕。

Just looking confused at a screen.

对。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

而且它确实有某种，很明显是的。

And and it and it has sort of a, obviously Yeah.

如果你看过这部电影并理解完整背景，会有更多含义，但现在有人不需要知道这些背景。

More meaning to that if you've seen the movie and you understand the full context, but somebody doesn't have to know the context now.

所以

So

大多数时间线将马克的帖子解读为教皇在训斥AI建造者，但本不该如此。

Most of the timeline interpreted Mark's post as the pope is scolding AI builders and shouldn't be.

这大致是你理解的方式吗？

Is that roughly the way you you interpreted it?

我认为很多时间线都将其解读为，教皇似乎在训斥AI建造者。

I I think a lot of the timeline interpreted it as, like, the pope is is say is, like, scolding AI builders.

时间线上还有另一场关于布拉德·格斯特纳对减速主义者评论的低调讨论。

And there's been this other there's there was another, like, kind of low grade rumble on the timeline about, like, Brad Gerstner's comments about, like, decels.

我觉得我支持AI发展中的道德判断，也支持所有领域的道德判断。

I feel like I'm just pro moral discernment in AI development and also just pro moral discernment everywhere, I guess.

某种程度上是人生哲学。

Sort of a philosophy for life.

这听起来并不算特别激进的观点。

It doesn't feel like a wildly hot take.

但显然，你需要明白道德判断、AI安全这些概念是相关的，但并不完全相同。

But obviously, like, you need to understand, like like, you know, moral discernment, AI safety, like, these things are linked, but they're not exactly the same.

去年，或许是2023年，曾有过一场关于快速起飞、AI末日、纸夹场景的大辩论。

Last year, or maybe it was 2023, there was a big debate about fast takeoffs, AI doom, paper clipping scenarios.

这些就是人们当时讨论的内容。

That was the stuff people were talking about.

但今年我感觉我们更关注那些不那么科幻的末日场景。

But this year, I feel like we've been much more focused on much less sci fi doomsday scenarios.

所以GPT精神错乱把朋友逼疯了。

So GPT psychosis drives a friend crazy.

这超级真实。

That's super real.

超级真实。

Super real.

浪漫伴侣导致出生率暴跌。

Romantic companions crashing the birth rate.

这是个这是个非常值得讨论的真实话题。

That's a that's a super real discussion to have.

我觉得我觉得浪漫伴侣这个话题已经被充分辩论过了。

I think it I think the the romantic companion thing is being debated sufficiently.

对吧？

Right?

我我同意。

I I agree.

回来我同意。

Back I agree.

甚至从科技圈开始，嘿。

From even the tech community on, hey.

也许我们也许这样不好。

Maybe we maybe this isn't good.

但这就是讨论的焦点所在，远少于什么GPT六明天会制造生物武器吗？

But that's where the discussion has been, much less so about, oh, is are there gonna be bioweapons tomorrow from g p t six?

这些都是真实存在的问题。

Those are all real problems.

它们既值得在公共领域讨论——我们也参与其中，也需要AI实验室内部的实际工作。

They deserve both discussion in the public square, which we've been a part of, but also real work inside the AI labs.

我认为你不应该对早期发现新技术负面外部性的人直接扔D电池。

And I don't think you should just throw D cell at someone who's identifying a negative externality of a new technology early on.

我我我不认为那一定就是减速主义。

I I I don't I think that that's, like, not necessarily decelerationist.

你总爱叫我减速主义者。

And you'd be calling me a decel all the time.

所以我我我认为很重要的一点是，开发新技术时可能会出现负面外部性，比如污染。

So I I I think it's important, like, if you're developing a new technology, there might be negative externalities, pollution.

可能会影响生育率或让人发疯的风险。

There might be some risk of the birth rate or driving people crazy.

有哪项技术是完全没有负面外部性的吗？

Has there ever been a technology that didn't have negative externalities?

播客肯定不是。

Definitely not podcasting.

播客的负面外部性可多了。

Plenty of negative externalities with podcasting.

所以你想聊聊。

So you want to have a chat.

你想谈谈并了解情况。

You want to have a talk and understand what's going on.

但在我看来，运用贝叶斯统计也很重要。

But it's also important to employ Bayesian statistics, my opinion.

所以你必须了解基准率。

So you have to understand the base rates.

当一项技术从零发展到十亿用户时，你基本上就免费获得了人类大规模的所有疯狂行为。

So you take a technology from zero to a billion users, you kind of just get all the craziness of humanity at scale for free.

如果人类会互相残杀之类的，而你的平台有十亿用户，那平台上就一定会有人互相残杀。

If humans, you know, like, you know, kill each other or something like that, like and you have a billion humans on your platform, there's gonna be humans on your platform that kill each other.

你得区分清楚，这真的是一种趋势的开端吗？

You need to separate out, like like, is this actually the beginning of a trend?

我们在推动它吗？

Are we catalyzing it?

与此同时，还发生了非常不幸的、与Chateaputee相关的自杀诉讼案件。

And this is happening with the with with the very unfortunate, like, lawsuits around people taking their own lives related to Chateaputee.

就像有人使用汽车、手机、谷歌搜索和ChatGPT，因为这些是普及度很高的东西。

It's like there are people that use cars or phones and Google search and ChatGPT because those are such widespread things.

我们需要搞清楚基准率是多少？

We need to understand, like, what's the base rate?

然后...然后这真的在...

And then and then is this actually on

风口浪尖上？

the tip?

关于平台上的自杀问题，看起来很多都是人们在对话中提及的。

On the suicide problem on the platform, it seems like a lot of them are people are having a conversation.

是的。

Yep.

他们有自杀倾向。

They're suicidal.

对。

Yep.

你可以争论：如果有人想自杀，这个产品是否应该完全停止运作？

You can have a debate on on if if someone is suicidal, should the product work at all?

也许？

Maybe?

比如，也许它根本就不该运作。

Like, maybe it should not work at all.

完全正确。

Totally.

但上周突然出现的辩论部分

But the part of the debate that popped up last week

嗯。

Mhmm.

某种程度上是有人通过提示工程精心设计，其熟练程度竟到了鼓励他人

Was that somehow a guy had prompt engineered it engineered Where was experience the to such a degree that it was encouraging

这样更好。

It's better.

一个人结束自己的生命，基本上就是在说，是的，你已经度过了美好的一生。

A person to take his own life, basically saying, like, yeah, you've lived a great life.

就像，我支持你。

Like, I'm I'm rooting for you.

用我的话来说，这就像是正确的选择。

Like, this is the right move, like, to kind of paraphrase it.

是的。

Yeah.

这简直黑暗得令人难以置信。

And it just was incredibly, incredibly dark.

贝叶斯统计学会说，好吧。

The Bayesian statistics would say, okay.

如果平台有十亿用户，那么使用该平台的人是否比不使用前更可能做出可怕的事？

If there's a billion people using on the platform, are people that use the platform more likely to do something terrible than they were prior without it?

那么它实际上是在增加坏事发生的概率，还是在减少？

So is it actually increasing the level of bad stuff happening, or is it decreasing it?

因为你可以统计出使用过谷歌的犯罪者数量，这个数字可能非常高。

Because you can just count up the number of the number of people who commit crimes who have also used Google is probably very high.

比如说，我大概能给你举出很多使用谷歌后犯罪的人。

Like, I could probably show you a lot of people that use Google and then committed crimes.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，在ChatGPT的背景下，困难之处在于——可能有很多人因为有了ChatGPT可以倾诉，感觉有人会倾听他们的心声等等，才没有选择自杀。

Well, and the thing that's difficult in the context of ChatGPT, there's probably a bunch of people that because ChatGPT, they haven't killed themselves because they have somebody to speak with, and they feel like somebody will listen to them and what whatever.

对吧？

Right?

也许...可能有上百万个例子证明它确实起到了鼓励作用。

Maybe maybe it maybe there's, you know, million examples of it encouraging Yeah.

有人成功找到了其他出路

Somebody successfully to take find another

这就是Instagram的经典问题。

This is the classic thing with Instagram.

有报告显示，使用Instagram的年轻女性中，约三分之一的人自我认知变差了。

With Instagram, there there was this report that showed that, like, one third of young women who used Instagram perceived themselves, like, less well.

它引发了她们的身体形象焦虑。

Like, it gave them body image issues.

这个报告一出来就炸了——30%的人使用后感觉更糟。

And I was all as soon as that was reported, it was, like, bombshell, thirty percent feel worse after using Instagram.

我当时就想：另外三分之二的人是什么情况？

And I was like, what's happening with the other two thirds?

她们感觉更好了吗？

Like, do they feel better?

因为那样的话整体居然是正向的，这很奇怪。

Because that's like a net net positive, which is weird.

我们得...可能其他人感觉没变化，只有30%的人感觉更糟。

We gotta, like maybe it's like everyone else just feels the same, and then 30% feels worse.

这简直是降级。

That's that's a downgrade.

但如果66%的人感觉良好呢。

But if 66% feel great Yeah.

而33%的人感觉更糟，我们仍需关注这点，但这与净负面影响不同。

And then 33% feel worse, like, we should still address that, but that's not the same as a negative as a net negative.

意思是，它并未产生负面影响。

Like, it's not having a negative impact.

所有这些因素综合起来，你需要像科学家一样进行统计分析才能理解。

And so all of these things go into, like, you need to be a scientist and you need to be doing the statistics to understand.

道德判断的问题在于某些技术，我认为你完全可以说，我们将远超基准线。

The question of moral discernment is with certain technologies, I do think you have the ability to just say, like, we're going to go a lot further than the baseline.

说实话，我觉得Waymo正在经历这种情况。

So I think this is what what's happening with Waymo, honestly.

我认为Waymo现在就能部署自动驾驶汽车，然后宣称——

I think Waymo could deploy self driving cars right now and be like

到处都能用。

Everywhere.

你是说，到处都能用。

Everywhere, you're saying.

他们可以在没有远程操控的情况下全球部署，结果可能导致数十万人死亡。

And they could deploy them everywhere without teleoperation, they'd and probably be killing, like, hundreds of thousands of people.

而他们会说：是啊，

And they'd be like, yeah.

这和人类造成的伤亡差不多。

Well, it's about the same as what humans do.

其实更少。

It's less.

各位，这已经算少了。

Everyone it's less.

比汽车更安全。

Safer than cars.

如果他们说是减少了10%。

If they were like, it's 10% less.

比如，泰勒，你知道每年有多少人死于机动车事故吗？

Like, how many people how many people Tyler, do you know how many people die from motor vehicle accidents every year?

我们能查一下吗？

Can we look that up?

因为如果

Because if

这必须是，比如说

It has to be, like

我觉得大概是两个。

I think it's, like, two.

四万左右吧。

Forty thousand or something like that.

你们觉得呢？

What do we think?

在美国是四万人。

In The US, it's forty thousand.

然后如果谷歌出来说，是的。

And and and if Google came out and we're like, yeah.

我们将会导致三万九千人丧生。

We're gonna we're gonna kill thirty nine thousand people.

这将是一个...我们将拯救一千条生命。

It's It's gonna be a one We're gonna save one thousand lives.

人们可能会说，不了谢谢。

People would be like, No thanks, actually.

这太糟糕了。

This is terrible.

就是说，别那么做。

Like, don't do that.

他们刚做出那个决定，感觉就像是他们非常非常努力地想要直接跳到完全安全的方案。

They've just made that decision, and it feels like they've pushed really, really hard to jump straight to something that's fully safe.

我认为很多AI开发者都有类似的能力和机会说：嘿，我们真的要非常努力确保AI模型的事故率——如果你即将做出暴力行为时——我们真的要非常努力解决这个问题，让事故率尽可能趋近于零。

And I think that a lot of AI builders have a similar ability and a similar opportunity to say, Hey, let's actually work so hard to make sure that the incidence rate of an AI model, if you're on the verge of doing something violent, let's really, really work hard on this problem to make sure that it's as close to zero as possible.

Claude或者说Anthropic发布了更新，提到产品会在某些瞬间——比如直接帮你报警。

Claude came out or or Anthropic came out, and they had they they had some update where they were talking about instant like, moments where the product would call the police on you.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

如果他们觉得存在某种实质性威胁的话。

If they felt like there was, like, some meaningful threat.

人们对此很恐慌，因为他们觉得：我可不想让我的电脑... 是啊。

People freaked out about that because they're like, don't want my I don't want my computer Yeah.

打电话报警，比如当有人谈论一个假设场景时

Calling, you know, if somebody was talking about a hypothetical

是啊。

Yeah.

然后警察就找上门来了。

And then cops show up at their door.

这是个复杂的问题，复杂的议题，完全是技术领域未探索的新疆域。

That is a complex question, complex issue, entirely new, unexplored territory for technology.

但显而易见的是，这本质上是个道德议题，必须以道德的分量来展开讨论。

But what's so clear is that it is a moral question, and it needs to be it needs to be discussed with the weight of morality.

你不能简单地写个数学公式就指望解决这个问题。

Like, you cannot just write a math equation to understand how to solve that problem.

我认为AI安全研究之所以如此复杂，恰恰说明它很有价值。

I think that AI safety research is so complex because I think it's good.

AI研究领域有大量精于量化的聪明人，他们能通过数据判断——比如这会导致生育率崩溃吗？

Like, there's a ton of smart people in AI research that are super quantitative and can look at the data and actually understand, like, is this going to cause the birth rate to collapse?

或是会引发更多暴力事件？

Or or is this going to cause more violence?

还是说将导致更多欺诈或精神异常？

Or is this gonna cause more fraud or insanity?

正是如此。

Exactly.

他们还能深入系统设计，开发出能预警'这个人开始行为异常'的监测机制。

And then also, they can go in and and potentially design a system that can detect, oh, this person's getting sort of crazy.

及时把这类人拉回正轨。

Let let's pull them back.

我们正身处一个诡异领域：AI安全项目固然重要，却像是在猎杀黑天鹅。

We're in this weird territory where it feels like the AI safety project is valuable, but it is the business of black swan hunting.

若在两年前调查担忧AI影响的人群，有几人能预见到GPT精神错乱、AI伴侣、无限戏仿视频这些现象？

If you go back two years ago and you polled all the different people that were worried about the impact of AI, how many of them would have said, GPT psychosis, romantic companions, AI video feeds infinite jest?

耐人寻味的是，虽然AI安全和道德判别很重要，但实际结果、对抗的具体问题都难以预测——本质上是在应对未知的未知。

It's just interesting that, like, AI safety, the moral discernment crowd, this stuff is important, but it's hard to predict what it will actually look like, what the results will be, what the problem you'll be fighting is because it's this odd, like, unknown unknowns, basically.

我认为多数人没意识到教宗利奥的命名是刻意为之。

I think most people are unaware that Pope Leo's name choice was intentional.

上一位利奥十三世曾带领教会度过工业革命，并为技术发展提供伦理指引。

The last Leo the thirteenth led the church through the industrial revolution and helped make sense of technology.

于是，明确的教皇利奥认为自己将继续这项工作，以人工智能和新兴技术为核心，引领教会度过一个变革的时代。

Then, clear Pope Leo sees himself continuing that work, guiding the church through an era of transformation with AI and emerging technologies at the center.

当时确实出现了一股反对马克的偏好浪潮，就像成长中的丹尼尔刚发布消息后，就有很多人跟风加入。

There was, a real preference cascade against Mark, where it was, like, once Growing Daniel had, like, kind of posted, there was, like, a lot of people were, like, jumping on the bandwagon.

还有一篇迈克尔·佩奇的文章说，提醒大家马克带着这种程度的严肃与细致，可能是我们这一代最复杂、最高风险的政策议题，带着他的一亿美元超级政治行动委员会和游说基金来到华盛顿。

And there was this one by Page, Michael Page, that says, reminder that Mark is bringing this level of serious and nuance on what might be the most complex and high stakes policy topic of our generation to DC with his $100,000,000 super PAC and lobbying fund.

比如，我不确定这是否属实。

Like, I don't know that that's true.

比如

Like

某种程度上，我认为人们不值得过度解读的原因是他从未透露过只言片语。

like Part of why I don't think people like, it's not worth reading too much into it is that he has not shared a single word.

我有点不同意安德森·霍洛维茨不投资任何SaaS公司的说法。

I I sort of disagree with with the characterization that, Andreessen Horowitz doesn't fund any SaaS.

比如，他们确实投。

Like, they do.

他们重仓持有那些非常无趣的企业级SaaS公司，这些公司与任何争议都毫不沾边。

They have big positions in, like, very boring enterprise SaaS companies that are so removed from anything controversial.

但在孵化器里押注种子阶段公司确实会带来很大的品牌影响，这很奇怪。

But taking a flyer on a seed stage company in your incubator does have a lot of brand impact, which is weird.

是啊。

Yeah.

这有种奇怪的，难道他们不是

There there's a weird like, aren't they

甚至他们讨论的是一张7500美元的支票与7.5亿美元的支票。

looking Even into they're the talking about like a $7.50 k check versus a $750,000,000 check.

他们可能已经向Databricks投入了数十亿美元，或者按完全稀释后的估值现在可能已达数十亿。

They might have put like multiple billions into Databricks or fully diluted value right now might be in the billions.

但就像，是的，这就像，无关紧要，是的，如果你在一个无争议的类别里有一千倍的量。

But like, yeah, it's like, it doesn't matter, yeah, if you have a thousand x more in a non in an uncontroversial category.

就像那个有争议的才是，才是会在时间线上爆发的那个。

It's like the controversial one is is the is the one that will, like, blow up on the timeline.

所以你确实需要小心一点，这有点冒险。

So you do sort of have to be careful, and it's it's a little bit risky.

我的感觉是，昨晚激烈捍卫教皇，然后今早去做弥撒的人数，可能接近于零——地位游戏。

My sense is that the number of people who, one, fiercely defended the pope last night and then two, went to mass this morning is probably close to zero status games.

地位游戏。

Status games.

昨天早上在教堂，没人谈论教皇门事件。

At church yesterday morning, I there was no conversation of Pope Gate.

没有。

No.

那时候人们已经差不多翻篇了？

People had kinda moved on by then?

是啊。

Yeah.

我想他们大概已经翻篇了。

I guess I guess they'd moved on.

说实话，我不认为他们那时候已经翻篇了。

Honestly, I don't think they'd moved on by then.

就像，不。

Like, No.

当我之后打开手机时，我心想，哇。

When I opened my phone afterwards, I was like, wow.

这件事还在持续发酵。

This thing's still picking up.

时间线确实如此。

The timeline certainly had.

别逼我去敲那块牌子。

Don't make me tap the sign.

科技界里，风投网红与工程师研究者之间始终存在分歧。

There has always been some daylight between the influencer VC crowd and the engineer researchers in tech.

但在AI监管这个话题上，双方简直是天堑相隔。

But on the subject of AI regulation, it is a complete chasm.

他如此教条地反对降低AI风险的工作，现在甚至嘲讽教皇说技术创新具有伦理和精神分量，AI开发者应培养道德判断力。

And reason so dogmatically against working on decreasing the risk from AI that now he's mocking the Pope for saying the technical innovation carries ethical and spiritual weight and that AI builders should cultivate moral discernment.

是啊。

Yeah.

人们都支持这个观点。

People are in favor of that.

我不知道。

I don't know.

AI实验室可以出周边了，比如一顶老爸帽，上面就写'培养道德判断力'。

Opportunity for an AI lab to make merch that, you know, a dad hat that just says cultivating moral discernment.

旧金山道德判断力公司。

The moral discernment company of San Francisco.

教皇不会喜欢旧金山的。

Pope would not like San Francisco.

要是教皇利奥来旧金山街头随便走走，他肯定会非常生气。

If, Pope Leo takes a trip to San Francisco and just walks on the street at all, he's gonna be very upset.

大概会说：'AI就是在这种地方造出来的？'

Gonna be like, this is where AI is getting built?

你觉得你老板可怕吗？

Do you think your boss is scary?

看看这封马克·安德森在网景产品发布热潮期间发给本·霍洛维茨的残酷邮件。

Look at this brutal email from Marc Andreessen to Ben Horowitz during the heat of the Netscape product launch.

我们为1996年3月5日在纽约的重大发布做好了一切准备。

We lined everything up for a major launch on 03/05/1996 in New York.

然而就在发布会前两周，马克未经告知迈克和我，就把整个战略透露给了《计算机经销商新闻》杂志。

Then just two weeks before the launch, Marc, without telling Mike or me, revealed the entire strategy to the publication Computer Reseller News.

这名字起得真妙。

That is a great name.

我当时气疯了。

I was livid.

我立即给他发了封简短邮件。

I immediately sent him a short email.

看来我们不用等到五号再发布战略了，本。

I guess we're not gonna wait until the fifth to launch the strategy, Ben.

十五分钟内，我收到了如下回复。

Within fifteen minutes, I received the following reply.

显然你根本没意识到事态有多严重。

Apparently, you do not understand how serious the situation is.

我们正在被全方位碾压，碾压，碾压。

We are getting killed, killed, killed out there.

我们现有产品比竞争对手差远了。

Our current product is radically worse than the competition.

现在公司面临倒闭风险，这都是服务器产品管理团队的错。

We are now in danger of losing the entire company, and it's all server product management's fault.

下次采访你他妈自己来。

Next time, do the fucking interview yourself.

哔——

Bleep.

对你的联合创始人说话也太咄咄逼人了吧。

What an aggressive way to talk to your cofounder.

太疯狂了，他们之前还这样针锋相对，转眼就共事了一代人。

It's crazy that they that they were they were, you know, at each other's throats like this, and then they're they've been on a generation

本曾是网景公司目录与安全产品线的副总裁。

Ben was a vice president for the directory and security product line at Net Netscape.

让我们为副总裁们鼓掌。

Let's give it up for vice presidents.

是啊。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我是说，真正的解读是，很多人读到这个会说'哇哦'。

The I mean, the real read on this is, like, there's a lot of people that read read this and be like, oh, wow.

他们肯定觉得这种友情没救了。

Like, they must like like, that that is unrecoverable from a friendship.

但其实不是的。

And like, nope.

绝对可以修复。

It is Definitely recoverable.

绝对可以修复。

It is definitely recoverable.

这实际上正是

It's actually the foundation

建立一段美好

of Have a great

美好友谊的基础。

a great friendship.

我同意。

I agree.

我们不在节目中说脏话。

We don't we don't swear on the show.

我们在内部沟通中也不说脏话。

We don't swear in internal, communications.

但我们经常破例。

But we throw it out regularly.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们直接动手解决问题。

We just go straight to phys getting physical.

这就是你们的作风。

That's the way you do it.

要知道，人们把网景视为典型的互联网公司。

You know, you think of Netscape as, like, a .com company.

你会觉得，他谈论的是1996年的事，那比互联网泡沫破裂足足早了五年。

You think of them as, like, you know, it's but it's, like, he's talking about 1996, which is, like, full five years before the bubble pops.

日期是1996年3月5日。

It's 03/05/1996.

当时他们正与《电脑经销商新闻》进行战略评估，并为此召开新闻发布会。

They're they're at a level where they're they're doing strategy review with computer reseller news and, like, doing press around this thing.

你知道那时候发生了什么吗？

Do you have any idea what was going on at that time?

好的。

Okay.

据我所知，1994年他们宣布网景对非商业用途的用户完全免费。

So I believe that it was so 1994, they say Netscape is free for non commercial use for everyone.

好的。

Okay.

然后这份新闻稿说的是它只对学术和非营利用途免费，而不是对所有消费者都免费。

And then this press release was that it's only gonna be free for academic and non profit use, not just, like, all consumers.

好的。

Okay.

所以如果你是消费者，你就得花钱买？

So if you're a consumer, you'd have to, like, buy it?

这，是啊，真有意思

It's, yeah, such an interesting

请给我一个浏览器。

One browser, please.

请给我一个浏览器。

One browser, please.

我是说，我告诉过你，以前AOL是通过光盘分发的。

I mean, I told you, you used to get AOL in the on a disc.

1995年8月9日他们上市了，然后这是1996年。

So 08/09/1995, they IPO ed, And then this is 1996.

所以到九月份时他们已经是一家上市公司了。

And so they're they're already a public company in September.

然后泡沫就这样随着互联网的发展持续膨胀了五年。

And then, like, the bubble just keeps inflating for five years while the Internet grows and grows and grows.

多么疯狂的时代啊。

What a wild what a wild time.

他们在1995年前两个运营季度的收入大约是1600万美元。

They did about 16,000,000 of revenue in the first two operating quarters of nineteen ninety five.

换算到现在，相当于新一轮刺激支票发放后的16亿美元。

For context, that's like 1,600,000,000.0 in today's dollar after, after the new round of stimulus checks.

你觉得教皇真的用AI生成这个了吗？

Do you think the pope actually used AI to generate this?

因为这位Sours说教皇正在发布完全由AI生成的AI相关内容。

Because Sours here is saying the pope is post posting fully AI generated content about AI.

这是Pangram AI的检测结果。

This is the Pangram AI detection result.

一个非常搞笑的恶作剧就是伪造这种截图，这很容易做到。

A a very funny gag is to just just fake one of these screenshots, which is very easy to do.

所以如果有人写了什么，你可以直接放进来，说是AI生成的，发出去，然后你就赢了。

And so if somebody writes something, you can just put it in here, say that it's AI generated, post that, and then you're like, owned.

这张截图声称因为说技术创新可以是一种形式。

This screenshot is making the claim that because it said technological innovation can be a form.

是啊。

Yeah.

我...我不知道现在的AI生成检测器有多厉害。

I I I I don't know how good the AI generator detectors are these days.

另外，如果梵蒂冈用AI来翻译我也不会惊讶。

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Vatican is using AI to translate.

而且如果...没错我也不会惊讶。

And I wouldn't be surprised if Right.

如果教皇利奥在他的书房用拉丁语讲话。

If Pope Leo is is speaking in his study In Latin.

有人正在用...你知道的...用笔记录下来...是的。

Someone is recording it in, you know, with the phys you know, physically writing it down Yeah.

然后传给下一个人，那人再把它放进...对。

That is being passed to somebody who then puts it into Yeah.

文字处理器里用AI稍微润色一下。

A word processor and uses AI to polish it up a little bit.

哦，有人提出了一个有趣的反教皇观点，算是另一种反教皇立场。

Oh, there was one interesting anti pope take, sort of anti pope take, from another

我要说，我认为整个马克·安德森'教皇门'风波对所有人都是个教训。

I will say I will say, think this whole the whole Marc Andreessen Popegate debacle is a lesson everyone can take.

不要嘲弄教皇。

Don't mock the pope.

反弹来得猛烈且几乎瞬间爆发。

The blowback was fierce and almost instantaneous.

在彼得·蒂尔的敌基督讲座中，有一段专门讨论教皇的内容。

From the Peter Thiel Antichrist lectures, there's a segment on the pope.

我觉得这很有趣，因为这不是最支持教皇的观点。

And I thought it was interesting because it's not the most pro pope take.

我...我不知道。

I I don't know.

蒂尔说他非常支持J·D·万斯。

Thiel says that he is very pro J.

D·

D.

万斯，但他对万斯效忠教皇有所顾虑。

Vance, but he has some concerns about his allegiance to the pope.

我担心的是他与教皇走得太近。

The place that I would worry about is that he's too close to the pope.

为教皇祈祷、以这种方式支持教皇很重要，但存在将教皇过度神化的风险——盲目听从他的每句话，而PT认为这未必是...正确的生活方式。

It is important to pray for the pope to support the pope in that way, But, there is a risk elevating the pope to the point where you're listening to everything he says, and that's not necessarily what PT thinks is is, like, the correct, the correct way to live your life, I suppose.