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这条信息来自拜耳公司。
This message comes from Bayer.
科学是一个严谨的过程，需要提出问题、进行测试、保持透明，并得出可验证的结果。
Science is a rigorous process that requires questions, testing, transparency, and results that can be proven.
这一方法是拜耳公司每一项突破性创新的核心，这些创新拯救生命并滋养世界。
This approach is integral to every breakthrough Bayer brings forward, innovations that save lives and feed the world.
Sciencedelivers.com。
Sciencedelivers.com.
这里是TED广播时间。
This is the TED Radio Hour.
每周带来突破性的TED演讲。
Each week, groundbreaking TED Talks.
我们现在的任务是
Our job now is to
大胆梦想。
dream big.
在TED大会上发布。
Delivered at TED conferences.
去实现我们期待的未来。
To bring about the future we want to see.
遍布全球。
Around the world.
去理解我们是谁。
To understand who we are.
从这些演讲中，我们为您带来令人惊喜的演讲者和观点。
From those talks, we bring you speakers and ideas that will surprise you.
你永远不知道会发现什么。
You just don't know what you're gonna find.
挑战你。
Challenge you.
我们真的需要自问，为什么这值得关注？
We truly have to ask ourselves, like, why is it noteworthy?
甚至改变你。
And even change you.
我真的感觉自己像是变了一个人。
I literally feel like I'm a different person.
是的。
Yes.
你有这种感觉吗？
Do you feel that way?
值得传播的思想。
Ideas worth spreading.
这里是TED与NPR联合制作，我是马诺伊·扎莫罗迪。
From Ted and NPR, I'm Manoj Zamorodi.
作家凯莉·科里根的女儿们如今已长大成人。
Writer Kelly Corrigan's daughters are grown now.
但在她们还是青少年时，她注意到了一些事情。
But back when they were tweens, she noticed something.
如果她们放学回家时非常生气或难过，而她想帮助她们，她们就会直接关闭心门。
If they came home from school really mad or upset and she tried to help them, they would just turn off.
就像，情绪会突然转变，从原本的激动变成某种疲惫和疏离，然后她们就会走开。
Like, emotion would change and they would go from something raw to something kind of tired and dismissive, and then they would wander away.
我当时会想，刚才发生了什么？
And I would think, what just happened?
比如，她们告诉我因为X事情感到难过。
Like, they told me they were upset about x.
我们一起头脑风暴想了解决X的办法，但她们似乎对我的家长式干预非常不满。
We brainstormed solutions to x, and they seem so unsatisfied with my parental interference.
这件事一直困扰着凯莉，直到有一天她和大学老室友特蕾西一起公路旅行时。
This really bothered Kelly until one day when she was on a road trip with her old college roommate, Tracy.
我们当时要去参加同学会，而她正在读研究生准备成为心理治疗师。
We were going back to some reunion and she was in graduate school to become a therapist.
开车途中，凯莉的女儿乔治娅打来了电话。
As they drove, Kelly's daughter Georgia called.
她当时非常沮丧，特蕾西就坐在我旁边，我把电话开了免提，因为我真的很想让特蕾西听听乔治娅声音里的戏剧性，也许还能像《大鼻子情圣》那样给我支招，告诉我该说什么。
And she was very upset about something and Tracy was sitting next to me, and I put the phone on speaker because I really wanted Tracy to hear the drama in Georgia's voice and also maybe to, like, Cyrano de Bergerac me, like, to just tell me what to say.
乔治亚在哭。
Georgia was crying.
她讨厌六年级。
She hated sixth grade.
班上的女生们毫无缘由地都开始针对她。
All the girls in class were turning on her for no reason.
乔治亚说完后，特蕾西说，
So Georgia said her things, and then Tracy said,
多跟我说说。
tell me more.
说'多跟我说说'。
Say, tell me more.
然后我会说，哦，告诉
And then I'd say, oh, tell
多告诉我一些。
me more.
然后乔治娅就会告诉我更多。
And then Georgia would tell me more.
接着特蕾西会说，这听起来确实很难。
And then Tracy would say, that sounds really hard.
然后我会说，哦，这听起来太难了。
And then I'd say, oh, that sounds so hard.
她说，确实如此。
She said, it is.
而乔治娅会一直说下去，不停地说。
And Georgia would go on, go on, go on.
然后特蕾西会说，
And then Tracy would say,
你想怎么处理这件事？
what do you wanna do about it?
然后我会说，那你打算怎么处理呢？
And I'd say, so what do you wanna do about it?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这就像是在演戏。
And it was like acting.
我完全信任特蕾西的建议，它出奇地有效，这让我感到不可思议。
I was completely trusting Tracy's advice, and it was uncanny to me how effective it was.
这件事教会我的是，当你向别人求助时，他们瞬间解决问题反而会让你觉得有些难堪。
And what it taught me is that I think it's kind of humiliating when you bring a problem to someone and they solve it like lickety split.
因为本质上，这传递的潜台词是：你有什么好烦恼的？
Because, basically, the underlying message of that is, what are you so upset about?
就好像，解决这事并不难——这种感受糟透了，远不如自己解开问题症结带来的喜悦。
Like, it's not that hard to figure this And that's a terrible feeling versus the joy of, like, untying the knots yourself.
所以我总想象有人在一个装满项链、耳环、手镯和胸针的巨大珠宝盒里翻找，所有东西都缠成一团。
So I always picture someone picking through, like, a giant jewelry box full of necklaces and earrings and bracelets and brooches, and everything's all tangled up.
将所有这些物品一劳永逸地分开会带来巨大的满足感。
And there is a tremendous satisfaction in separating all those items once and for all.
所以你要么让对方获得这种满足感，要么就要剥夺它。
And so either you're gonna let the person have that satisfaction or you're gonna steal it.
当我听到自己用‘剥夺他人满足感’这种说法时，这帮助我站在正确的一边。
And once I heard myself phrase it that way, that it's stealing satisfaction, that helped me stay on the right side of things.
听着，你胆敢替他们解决这个问题试试。
Like, don't you dare solve this for them.
别伸手去拿。
Don't grab that.
那样太贪婪了。
That's greedy.
让她自己解决吧。
Like, let her solve it.
这才是真正该做的事。
That's really the call here.
这很勇敢，因为你正在放下自己最习惯的方法和表达方式。
And that's brave because you are putting aside your own methods and your own sort of delivery mechanisms that are most comfortable for you.
你必须认定他们的需求高于一切，你不是在试图同时满足双方需求，更不是在优先满足自己的需求。
You have to decide that their needs are paramount, that you are not trying to serve both needs at the same time, and you're definitely not trying to serve your own needs over theirs.
我们总想解决问题、赢得争论、通过屏幕点击就能交到朋友。
We want to fix problems, win the argument, make friends with the tap of a screen.
但真正亲近一个人意味着什么？我们该如何鼓起勇气放下自己和内心的恐惧？
But what does it mean to truly be close to someone, and how can we have the courage to put ourselves and our fears aside?
本期节目将探讨人际关系中的勇敢之道。
Today on the show, ideas about being brave in relationships.
从处理家庭包袱到科学验证的婚姻保鲜法，再到一位史上最著名关系治疗师的智慧——在这个看似孤独的世界里如何结交朋友。
From dealing with family baggage to a scientifically proven way to stay married, and from one of the most famous relationship therapists of all, wisdom on how to make friends in what can feel like a lonely world.
凯莉·科里根认为，要想对你生命中最重要的人提供最大帮助，你只需要学会说几句话。
Kelly Corrigan believes that to be the most helpful to the most important people in your life, you just need to say a few phrases.
多说点给我听听。
Tell me more.
继续说。
Go on.
还有呢？
What else?
就是这七个字，光靠这七个字你就能在人生路上走得很远。
Those are the seven words, and you can get pretty far in life just with those seven words.
她多年来通过PBS节目、播客和四本畅销书，谈论了众多家庭的故事，包括她自己的。
She spent years talking about families, her own and many others on her PBS show, her podcast, and in her four best selling books.
凯莉认为，当危机来临时，我们最需要的正是这种平静而温和的勇气。
And Kelly thinks that when it comes to a crisis, that is when we most need that quiet, kind of bravery.
在你自以为准备好的每个危机里，都藏着上百个预案之外的肮脏意外。
Inside every crisis you think you might be ready for are a 100 dirty surprises that are not in the playbook.
这是她在TED舞台上的演讲。
Here she is on the TED stage.
三十多岁时我患上了三期癌症，说实话，按化疗时间表治疗所需的勇气，远不及向丈夫坦白手术后胸部变得怪异不对称——这个曾经让我引以为傲的部位——让性生活失去乐趣时需要的勇气。
I had stage three cancer in my thirties, and I can tell you that following the chemo schedule didn't take nearly as much courage as admitting to my husband that sex felt less sexy after my boobs, which were once a real strong suit for me were made weird and uneven by a surgeon's knife.
我说的这种勇气，或许通过家庭生活中那些微小伤害时刻能更好理解——当问题没有明确答案，可能是你的错，或勾起你想遗忘的回忆，又因人们极易受暗示，错误的语气、表情或措辞都可能让事情更糟。
This bravery I'm talking about might even be better understood if you look at the smaller moments of injury in family life, when there's not really an answer, or it might be your fault, or it might remind you of something you'd rather forget, or because people are so suggestible, and the wrong tone or expression or phrasing might somehow make things worse.
比如你的孩子被踢出了群聊。
Say your kid was dropped from a group text.
他们原本在群里，被重视，有归属感，然后突然就没了。
They were in it, they mattered, they belonged, and then poof.
或是你丈夫搞砸了工作上的大单，又或是你母亲死活不肯穿能让她周三麻将局轻松点的成人纸尿裤。
Or your husband blew the big deal at work, or your mom won't wear the diapers that would really help her get through mahjong on Wednesdays.
当家人看着我们说'我认识你吗'时，我们又该如何精准调动那份绝妙的勇气来做出建设性回应？
And how should we calibrate the exquisite bravery to respond productively when someone in our family looks at us and says, do I know you?
我每顿饭前后都会称体重。
I weigh myself before and after every meal.
我听到有声音。
I hear voices.
我会偷东西。
I steal.
我又复发了。
I'm using again.
我买了把枪，停了药，还忍不住不停地下网络赌注。
I bought a gun, I stopped taking the medication, I can't stop making online bets.
有时我会想，更多的生命是否真的值得这般努力。
Sometimes I wonder if more life is really worth all this effort.
勇气是直面伤痛的巨大胆量，如同战地护士般镇定地保持目光接触，说出这七个字：告诉我更多。
Bravery is the great guts to move closer to the wound, as composed as a war nurse holding eye contact and saying these seven words, tell me more.
还有呢？
What else?
继续说吧。
Go on.
这就是勇敢者闪耀的方式。
That's how the brave shine.
他们所做的仅此而已。
That's all they do.
他们说，多告诉我一些。
They say, tell me more.
还有什么？
What else?
继续。
Go on.
即使他们害怕接下来可能发生的事，即使他们没有任何训练或经验为这一刻做准备，即使天色已晚而他们还要赶早班飞机。
Even if they're scared of what might happen next, even if they have no training or experience to prepare them for this moment, even if it's late and they have an early flight.
贯穿你书籍和演讲的主题，是关于在家庭关系中保持在场和倾听的重要性——无论你如何定义家庭。
The theme through your books, through your talk, is about how important it is to be present, to listen in our family relationships, however you wanna define family.
但当你疲惫不堪时，当你忙着准备晚餐时，当你在想‘天啊’的时候，这真的很难做到。
But it is so hard to do when you are tired, when you're trying to get dinner on the table, when you feel like, oh my god.
我的孩子又在抱怨了。
My kid is, like, complaining again.
你知道送你去那个夏令营花了多少钱吗？
Like, do you know how much it cost to send you to that camp?
对于如何在现实中做到专注当下，你有什么切实可行的建议吗？
What advice do you have for being present in a, I guess, a doable way?
我认为这确实体现了脆弱性带来的不便。
I do think that it speaks to the inconvenience of vulnerability.
就像所有有孩子的人都知道，他们常常会在你关灯准备睡觉时突然出现。
Like, anyone who has children knows that they often come in right as you're turning off your light to go to sleep.
没错。
Yep.
他们想告诉你一些事情，或者你刚到机场，或者即将面临某个紧要关头。
And they wanna tell you something, or you're pulling up to the airport, or there's some imminent drop off coming.
我认为勇敢需要放下自我和自尊，这样你全部的认知和情感才能成为他人可以依靠的力量。
And I think that bravery requires a setting aside of self and a setting aside of ego such that your whole being, everything you've got cognitively and emotionally, is available to the other person to lean on.
如果一个人站在你面前说，我想倾诉所有这些糟糕的事情。
If a person is in front of you telling you, I wanna say all these horrible things.
我想告诉你我感觉有多糟糕。
I wanna tell you how awful I feel.
比如，你能听到这些话吗？
Like, can you even hear it?
你能消化这些情绪吗？
Can you absorb that?
并且你是否在传递你能做到的信号？
And are you signaling that you can?
因为多年来我常思考的另一件事是：如果你真心爱一个人，你的责任就是确保他们感受到这份爱，这需要一些个性化定制。
Because another thing I've thought about a lot over the years is that the job is if you really love someone, the job is to make sure they know it, which requires a little customization.
要知道，不是每个孩子都喜欢被拥抱。
You know, not every kid wants to be hugged Right.
反复拥抱或寄送贺卡这类方式。
Repeatedly or sent cards in the mail.
就像爱情语言理论在这里特别有价值——如果我要为你量身定制一种感受，它会是什么样子？
Like, the whole love languages thing is so valuable here, which is what would it look like if I if I were to custom design a feeling for you?
这种感受会呈现怎样的形态呢？
What would the shape of it be?
它会发出怎样的声音呢？
What would the sound of it be?
别给自己太大压力非要说出正确的话。
Don't put too much pressure on yourself to say the right thing.
我对这种情感款待的理念感到无比兴奋，就像在说：告诉我些什么吧。
I'm so thrilled by the idea of that kind of emotional hospitality, where you're like, I I tell me something.
我在这里。
I'm here.
我在倾听。
I'm listening.
很少有人真正喜欢倾听。
So few people love to listen.
大多数人似乎更爱说话。
Most people, it seems, love to talk.
勇敢的人不会做这两件事。
Here's two things the brave don't do.
勇敢者不会越俎代庖，把自己变成英雄。
They don't take over and become the hero.
在家庭中，勇敢往往只是静静守候。
In families, bravery is mostly just sitting there.
我个人曾以为爱意味着行动。
Personally, I thought love meant action.
我从未想过爱可以如此静默。
I had no idea it could be so still.
当我的亲人陷入困境时，我内心总想抓起记事本列清单、排日程。
When things get hairy for one of my people, everything in me wants to grab a clipboard, make a to do list and start calendaring appointments.
而这些举动会让我们意外成为焦点——不再是教练或牧师，反倒成了需要救助的人。
And all that can accidentally put us center stage, no longer the coach or the minister, but rather one of the afflicted.
但我所敬佩的那些坚韧之人没有自我、没有需求、没有企图心，至少他们懂得为真正的主角（而非我们自己）压制这一切。
But these gritty endurance types I've been admiring have no self and no needs and no agenda, or at least they know how to override all that for the main character, who is not us.
勇敢者不会做的第二件事：逃避或躲进工作、爱好等社会认可的忙碌借口中。
The second thing the brave don't do, leave or hide inside work or hobbies or some other socially acceptable busyness.
在我最糟糕的时刻，当束手无策的感觉令人难以忍受时，我曾梦想过去巴黎攻读艺术硕士。
In my worst moments, when sitting on my hands is just unbearable, I have dreamed of going to get an MFA in Paris.
既然我帮不上忙，为什么还要我眼睁睁看着？
Because if I can't help, why do I have to watch?
离开并重新开始会是不错的选择。
It would be nice to leave and start again.
几乎每个身处长期婚姻中的人都至少会疑惑，为何曾经心仪的对象如今变得如此爱打嗝放屁。
Hardly anyone who's been in a long marriage hasn't at least wondered how it is that the object of their desire has become so burpy and farty.
有时我看着赤裸的自己，妊娠纹、癌症手术的疤痕，还有其他此刻你无需具体想象的痕迹。
Sometimes I see myself naked, stretch marks from pregnancies, scars from cancer surgeries, other things that I don't feel you need to be visualizing right about now.
我觉得这个男人还留在我身边真是个奇迹。
And I think it's a miracle that man stays with me.
但你要知道，岁月在他身上也留下了痕迹。
But, you know, he's not untouched by time either.
而这还只是外表的变化。
And that's just the physical.
我是说，在场谁不曾幻想过与一个没见过我们在马桶上进食或对康卡斯特客服发飙的人在一起，摆脱自己那段尴尬的历史，或许能和我们在巴黎艺术学院遇到的那个温柔的人重新开始。
I mean, who here hasn't wanted to be with someone who hasn't seen us eating on the toilet or bitching at the Comcast guy, leaving behind our own humiliating history, maybe with the nice person we met at art school in Paris.
这是一种选择。
It's an option.
有人会这么做。
People take it.
勇敢的人选择留下。
The brave hang around.
他们随时准备在场并见证一切。
They are available and ready to bear witness.
稍后，凯莉·科里根将讲述她如何将这一理念应用于父亲生命最后的时光。
In a moment, Kelly Corrigan explains how she applied this same philosophy to the final days of her father's life.
今天的节目主题：亲密关系中的勇气。
On the show today, bravery in relationships.
我是曼努什·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听NPR出品的TED广播时间。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
本消息来自TED Talks Daily播客，每日为您带来新思想。
This message comes from TED Talks Daily, the podcast that brings you a new idea every day.
从平衡人工智能与批判性思维，到关于青少年大脑的突破性发现，了解正在改变人类的事物。
Learn what's transforming humanity from balancing AI in your critical thinking to surpassing discoveries about the adolescent brain.
在您常用的播客平台搜索TED Talks Daily即可收听。
Find TED Talks Daily wherever you listen.
这里是NPR的TED Radio Hour节目。
It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
我是Manoush Zamorodi。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi.
今天节目探讨的是：在人际关系中如何展现勇气。
On the show today, what it takes to be brave in relationships.
我们刚刚听到作家Kelly Corrigan讲述为何有时对你所爱之人最勇敢的做法就是什么都不做。
We were just hearing from writer Kelly Corrigan on why sometimes the bravest thing you can do for the people you love is nothing at all.
你最终在与父亲最后的对话之一中也践行了这一理念。
You ended up applying this same philosophy in one of the last conversations you had with your father.
你能
Can you
也给我们讲讲那个故事吗？
tell us that story too?
好的。
Yeah.
那时我父亲离世仅剩几天，他完全愿意让我坐在床边陪他，握着他的手度过数小时。
So my dad, was just days away from dying, and he was completely willing to have me sit in bed with him, to hold hands with him for hours.
就像，他通过回应我的关怀在告诉我，这就是终点，我们应该珍惜。
Like, he was telling me in the way that he was responding to my outreach that, like, this is it, and we should sorry.
我们应该尽情享受这段共处的时光。
We should gobble up this time that we have together.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他或多或少感到平静。
And he felt more or less at peace.
他当时84岁。
He was 84 years old.
他在这里度过了非常精彩的时光。
He'd had a spectacular time while he was here.
但有一天他显得有些焦躁，只有当你非常安静且全神贯注时才能察觉——我认为这种专注本身就是一种勇敢的行为。
But there was this day where he felt kind of agitated, and you could only see it if you were very quiet and very tuned in, which I consider to be an act of bravery.
不是匆忙走动、摆弄他床头柜上的东西，或是命令他睡觉、指挥他人，而是悄悄靠近他们，与他们感同身受。
To not rush around and be moving things around on his nightstand and telling him to go to sleep and bossing people around, but rather just sliding in next to them and mirroring their mood.
于是我看着他的额头，那里布满皱纹，紧绷着。
And so I was looking at his forehead, and it was all wrinkled up and tight.
他说：‘哦，亲爱的。’
And he said, oh, lovey.
我本该多去看看你汤米叔叔的。
I should have gone to see your uncle Tommy more.
汤米叔叔是我母亲的兄弟。
So uncle Tommy is my mother's brother.
他46岁时因脑瘤去世。
He died at 46 of a brain tumor.
我父亲非常爱这个人。
My dad loved this guy.
那已经是很久以前的事了。
And it had been a long time.
汤米去世大概已有四十年了。
It had been maybe forty years since Tommy died.
但就在那一刻，他对自己未能给予汤米叔叔更多而感到不安。
But right then and there, he had this discomfort with his failure to give more to uncle Tommy.
而不是说，哦，得了吧。
And instead of saying, oh, come on.
你对他而言是个了不起的姐夫。
You're an amazing brother-in-law to him.
我说，多告诉我一些。
I said, tell me more.
他说，我本该以我的长曲棍球教练的名字给孩子命名的。
And he said, I I should've named a kid after my lacrosse coach.
我当时反应是，什么？
And it was like, what?
为什么？
Why?
多告诉我一些。
Tell me more.
他接着说，他对我太重要了。
And he said, was so important to me.
我靠奖学金上的大学，却差点搞砸了。
I went to college on a scholarship, and I almost blew it.
我当时派对玩得太疯了。
I was partying too much.
我当时没当回事。
I didn't take it seriously.
我训练迟到了。
I was late to practice.
那人抓住我的肩膀说，你在这队里只剩一周时间，否则我就送你回家。
And the guy took me by the shoulders and said, you got one more week on this team or I'm sending you home.
他立刻让我改过自新。
And he shaped me right up.
我当时就想，还有呢？
And it was like, what else?
比如，还有更多故事吗？
Like, is there more?
当然，确实还有。
And, of course, there was.
于是我们花了一天时间回顾他这些小遗憾，在我看来这些遗憾都如此纯真。
And so we spent the day reviewing these little regrets that he had that were so, to my mind, so innocent.
我是说，他的情绪几乎就像是要告诉我他出轨了
I mean, it it was almost like the mood of him was that he was gonna tell me he had cheated on
我母亲或者他
my mother or that he had
有个私生子，或者他贪污了
an illegitimate child or that he had embezzled.
但事实上，在我看来，这些都是很小的事情
But the the fact of it was very small to me, to my eye.
当然，这引出了一个更大的观点，那就是在我眼里看起来如何并不重要
But, of course, that goes to this larger point, which is it doesn't really matter what it looks like to my eye.
无论是什么在困扰你，那就是在困扰你
Like, whatever is weighing on you is weighing on you.
就像是，我会倾听你
And it was like, I'm gonna hear you.
我会和你一起承担这件事
I'm gonna absorb this thing with you.
我会以同样的认真态度对待这件事，或许这样能让你安心休息。
I'm gonna mirror your seriousness about it, and maybe that can let you rest.
确实如此。
And it did.
他靠回枕头上说道：我很好，亲爱的。
And he leaned back on his pillow and said, I'm good, lovey.
今天这样就很好。
That's good for today.
你这样做对他来说是多么珍贵的礼物啊。
What a gift you could give him by doing that.
嗯，确实，但能给予这份礼物对我而言同样是种馈赠。
Well, yes, I suppose, but also such a gift to me to get to give it.
在这种时刻，要真正有效、富有成效且足够地去爱一个人几乎是不可能的。
Like, there's so it seems almost impossible, really, to love someone effectively and productively and sufficiently in that moment.
他向我敞开了心扉，而我接受了这份馈赠。
And he was offering me away, and I took it.
而我始终拥有它。
And I always have it.
真正勇敢的最终之举，是倚靠下来，放手让他们离去。
The final act then of the truly brave is leaning back and letting them go.
这一切勇气的奖赏，是完整的人生体验，满载着所有情感的极致浓度，我们被赋予重大使命，并找到了一种全然表达与传递的、以他人为中心的完满之爱。
The reward for all this bravery is a full human experience, complete with all the emotions at maximum dosage, where we have been put to great use and found an other centric love that is complete in its expression and its transmission.
奖赏是最终变得柔软而谦卑，空灵而敬畏，明白从摇篮到坟墓，我们所见证的所有辉煌中，最令人惊叹的始终是人与人之间的联结。
The reward is to end up soft and humble, empty and in awe, knowing that of all the magnificence we have beheld from cradle to grave, the most eye popping was interpersonal.
因此，致敬所有能察言观色、读懂弦外之音的人，那些问对问题但不过多追问的人，那些在诊室做笔记并为老少擦拭臀部的人，那些倾听、拥抱与坚守的人。
So here's to anyone who notices and reads between the lines, who asks the right questions but not too many, who takes notes at the doctor's office and wipes butts young and old, who listens, holds and stays.
我们这些未经训练且总有些措手不及的人，依然敢于践行爱，成为爱的化身。
We who, untrained and always a little off guard, still dare to do love, to be love.
这才是勇敢。
That's brave.
谢谢。
Thank you.
那
That
是凯莉·科里根。
was Kelly Corrigan.
她的新书名为《告诉我更多》。
Her latest book is called Tell Me More.
你可以在ted.com观看她的完整演讲。
You can see her full talk at ted.com.
这就是勇敢，为家人挺身而出。
So that's being brave, showing up for your family.
但对于配偶或伴侣呢？
But what about your spouse or partner?
我们如何在一对一关系中展现勇气，尤其是在意见分歧时？
How do we show courage one on one, especially when we're in disagreement?
是的。
Yeah.
争吵是很正常的。
Fighting is very normal.
这非常自然，仅仅因为我们每个人的大脑构造都不同。
It's very natural just by virtue of the fact that each of us has a different brain from the other person.
我们的成长环境各不相同。
We've been raised differently.
我们实际上需要冲突，因为我们不会被与我们完全相同的人吸引，而且随着我们的变化和成长，我们需要不断理解伴侣。
We actually need conflict because we're not attracted to people who are just like us, and we have to keep understanding our partner as we change and grow.
约翰和朱莉·戈特曼已经结婚超过三十五年，他们作为夫妻心理学领域的先驱非常知名，专门研究为什么有些夫妻能长久在一起而有些则不能。
John and Julie Gottman have been married for over thirty five years, and they are very well known for being pioneers in the field of couples psychology, specifically researching why some couples stay together and others don't.
这一切要追溯到1986年，当时约翰和一位同事在华盛顿大学创建了一个研究夫妻关系的实验室。
It all goes back to 1986 when John and a colleague created a laboratory to study couples at the University of Washington.
朱莉不久后加入了他们。
Julie joined them soon after.
他们称之为爱情实验室。
They called it the love lab.
我们想看看是否能预测关系的未来走向。
We wanted to see whether we could predict the future of relationships.
以下是他们的做法。
Here's what they would do.
情侣们会来到实验室，面对面坐下，我们会请他们思考一个尚未解决但想要讨论的问题。
Couples would come into the lab, sit down, typically facing one another, and we would ask them to think about a problem that they hadn't solved yet that they wanted to talk about.
戈特曼夫妇对情侣们进行了长达数周、数月甚至数年的跟踪访谈，但他们的方法有独特之处。
The Gottmans interviewed couples over the course of weeks, months, even years, but there was something unique about their method.
对话过程被记录下来，每个人都连接着监测心率、血流速度的仪器。
The conversations were recorded and each person was hooked up to monitors to measure heart rate, blood velocity.
皮肤电导率（手掌出汗情况）、呼吸频率等多种信号都与视频时间码同步记录。
Skin conductance, sweating from the palms of the hands, respiration and variety of other signals and they were synchronized to the video time code.
通过分析他们的面部表情、肢体动作、言语内容和语气所传达的一切信息。
Analyzing what their facial expressions, their body movements, their words, and their tone of voice all conveyed.
在收集了大量数据后，戈特曼夫妇开始发现规律。
After collecting reams of data, the Gottmins started to see patterns.
例如，如果有人感到不安并停止回应对话。
For example, if someone got upset and stopped responding in the conversation.
他们的心率通常超过每分钟100次。
Their heart rates were typically over a 100 beats a minute.
他们可能呼吸非常浅。
They might be breathing very shallowly.
他们基本上很难听清对方的话，理解对方在说什么，以及创造性地解决问题。
They are basically having great difficulty hearing the other person, interpreting what that other person is saying, and creatively problem solving.
Over the years, they would follow up with couples and track whether they stayed together.
Over the years, they would follow-up with couples and track whether they stayed together.
我们惊讶地发现，我们可以以超过90%的准确率预测一段关系的未来。
And we found surprisingly that we could predict with over 90% accuracy the future of a relationship.
这项研究至今仍在继续，但得益于人工智能的助力。
This work continues today, but with a boost from artificial intelligence.
如今，大部分工作已实现自动化，这堪称某种奇迹。
Now, most of that is automated, which is somewhat miraculous.
我们正以百分之一秒的精度观察一对夫妇的互动情况。
We are getting hundredth of a second by hundredth of a second what is happening to a couple.
他们现已研究了数千对对话中的伴侣，并将发现编纂成各种关系法则或规则。
They've now studied thousands of pairs in conversation and codified their findings into various laws or rules for relationships.
其中最著名的一条被称为'末日四骑士'。
The most famous one is called the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
基本上，如果在争吵中出现这四种反应，可能意味着伴侣关系的终结。
Basically, four reactions that if they show up during a fight may mean a couple's demise.
以下是朱莉和约翰·戈特曼在TED舞台上的演讲。
Here are Julie and John Gottman on the TED stage.
第一个是批评，将问题归咎于伴侣的性格缺陷。
The first one was criticism, blaming a problem on a personality flaw of your partner.
例如：'天啊，这地方怎么这么乱'
For example, oh my god, this place is such a mess.
'你怎么这么邋遢？'
Why are you such a slob?
第二个骑士是轻蔑。
The second horseman is contempt.
轻蔑类似于批评，但带有一种优越感。
Contempt is like criticism, but it has a dash of superiority.
你加入了嘲讽、厌恶、挖苦和恶毒的侮辱。
You include scorn, disgust, sarcasm and nasty insults.
第三个骑士是防御性。
The third horseman is defensiveness.
这是最常见的一种。
That's the most common one.
那时我们表现得像个无辜的受害者。
And that's when we act like an innocent victim.
我确实也付了账单。
I did, too, pay the bills.
第四个骑士是筑墙防御。
The fourth horseman is stonewalling.
当我们完全封闭自我时，甚至不给对方任何我们在倾听的迹象。
When we shut down completely, and we don't even give the speaker any signs that we're listening.
我们从生理研究中发现，那些采取冷处理的人往往处于我们所说的'情绪淹没'状态，实际上就是进入了战斗或逃跑模式。
And what we discovered from the physiological research is that people who stonewalled tended to be what we call flooded, which actually means in fight or flight.
所以，当你被情绪淹没时，你真的会感觉自己面临生命危险。
So, you know, when you're flooded, you really feel like you're in danger of dying.
你会感到伴侣带来的威胁如此之大，以至于开始大量分泌这些压力荷尔蒙——皮质醇和肾上腺素。
You feel so threatened by your partner that you start to really secrete these stress hormones, cortisol and adrenaline.
这会造成一种管状视野效应，使他们无法真正倾听。
And it creates a kind of tunnel vision where they can't really listen.
他们处理信息的能力会变得很差。
They can't really process information very well.
最终他们会不断重复自己的话，以为声音越大就越有说服力。
And they wind up repeating themselves, thinking if they repeat themselves louder and louder, they'll be more persuasive.
一旦你发现房间里有人情绪失控，就应该说：'我想我们需要暂停一下。'
Soon as you recognize there's flooding in the room, you say, I think we need to take a break.
你要说明何时会回来继续对话，这样对方才不会感到被拒绝。
And you say, when you will come back to continue the conversation so that the other person doesn't feel rejected.
在休息期间，你可以通过阅读、听音乐或看电视来转移注意力，让你的身体有机会平静下来。
On the break, you distract yourself by reading, by listening to music, maybe watching TV, so your body has a chance to calm down.
然后你们在约定的时间回来继续谈话，通常人们再次坐下来交谈时，看起来就像换了个脑子一样。
And then you come back at the designated time you agreed to, and typically, people look like they've had a brain transplant when they sit down and talk again.
好的。
Okay.
你的新书名为《正确争吵：成功伴侣如何将冲突转化为连接》。
Your latest book is called Fight Right, How Successful Couples Turn Conflict Into Connection.
书中你分享了你研究过的伴侣案例。
And in it, you share examples from couples that you have studied.
我想特别请教你关于其中一次争吵的情况。
And I wanna ask you about one argument in particular.
这是一对年轻夫妇在讨论即将到来的岳父母拜访。
This is a young couple discussing an upcoming visit from the in laws.
嗯
Mhmm.
我们实际上已经重现了他们的对话，现在可以播放这个案例研究了。
We have actually created a reenactment of their conversation, and we can play this case study now.
哦对了，我告诉我父母这周末来访时可以住我们的房间。
Oh, by the way, I told my parents they could stay in our room this weekend when they visit.
我们可以睡沙发。
We'll sleep on the couch.
你已经告诉他们了？
You already told them?
是啊
Well, yeah.
他们是我父母。
They're my parents.
我
I
你知道我在沙发上睡不好。
You know I don't sleep well on the couch.
拜托啦。
Come on.
就一个周末而已。
It's just for the weekend.
有什么大不了的？
What's the big deal?
我只是想在你父母面前保持最佳状态，不想因为没睡好而脾气暴躁
I just I wanna be at my best with your parents, and I don't wanna be grumpy because I didn't
说得好像你在我父母面前有过最佳表现似的。
get Like you're ever at your best with my parents anyway.
哇哦。
Wow.
好吧。
Okay.
你为什么要摆出那副表情？
Why are you making that face?
你知道的
You know it's
我正努力和你父母搞好关系。
I'm trying to make an effort with your parents.
哦，是吗？
Oh, yeah?
为什么你花了三年时间才
Why has it taken three years for you
这么做？
to do that?
为什么我这三年来一直在努力。
Why is this that I've an effort for three years.
好吧。
Okay.
所以关于姻亲关系，不需要科学家也能知道这对许多夫妻来说是个敏感话题。
So in laws, it's a I don't need to be a scientist to know that it's a touchy subject for many couples.
嗯。
Mhmm.
告诉我，你们各自从那段对话中听到了什么？
Tell me, what did you each hear in that conversation?
嗯，我听到了女方大量的批评和轻蔑。
Well, I heard a lot of criticism and a lot of contempt from the woman.
首先，她的宣布让他措手不及。
First of all, he was caught off guard by her announcement.
他某种程度上表达了这点，但并没有真正谈论自己的感受。
He sort of expressed that but really didn't talk about his feelings.
她没能倾听他对此事的感受。
She failed to listen to his feelings about it.
这有什么大不了的？
What's the big deal?
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她在轻视他的感受，否定他的感受。
She's minimizing his feelings, invalidating his feelings.
他因此真的受到了伤害。
He's really hurt by that.
他变得防备起来，双方完全没有任何倾听。
He goes defensive, and there's no listening going on whatsoever.
是啊。
Yeah.
他已经准备退缩了。
He was ready to withdraw.
我们还知道，他的心率很快上升到了每分钟95次。
We also know that, his heart rate goes up to 95 beats a minute very quickly.
没错。
Right.
这是一对真实的夫妻。
This was a real couple.
我们是在重现场景，但你们确实在实验室里测量过这些数据。
We're playing a reenactment, but you actually measured them in your lab.
没错。
That's right.
仅通过视频，我们就能测量两个人的心率。
Just by using the video, we could measure the heart rate of both people.
结果发现信任在这次互动中确实急剧下降。
And turns out that trust really falls dramatically in this interaction.
信任意味着每个人不仅关心自身利益，还会真正努力确保伴侣的利益最大化。
Trust means each person is really not just interested in their own benefits, but also really working to ensure that their partner's benefits are maximized.
你的伴侣在你身边吗？
Is your partner there for you?
他们会支持你吗？
Do they have your back?
我们可以实时计算这些数据。
And we can compute that moment by moment.
所以他们很快就变成了陌生人和敌人。
So they very quickly become strangers and enemies.
那么他们该如何解决这个问题呢？
So how can they fix this?
所以她本可以采取我们称之为'温和开场'的方式来表达。
So what she could have said instead is what we call a softened start up.
嗯。
Mhmm.
假设这位男士名叫丹。
Let's say the fellow's name is Dan.
丹，我对我父母这周末要来感到有些焦虑。
So, Dan, I'm feeling a little anxious about my parents coming for this weekend.
我非常希望他们能住得舒服。
I really want them to be comfortable.
你觉得我们把卧室让给他们，而我们在客厅沙发上睡个周末怎么样？
So how would you feel about our giving our bedroom to them while we sleep on the couch in the living room just for the weekend?
好的。
Okay.
这将是一个开放性问题，给丹留下一些选择空间。
That would be an opening question that gives Dan some freedom of choice.
是啊。
Yeah.
但是，你知道，他其实也可以改善这种互动方式。
But, you know, he could really improve the interaction as well.
你看，如果她说类似'你这三年根本没努力过'这样的话，他可以回应说'哇，你对我对待你父母的方式反应这么强烈'。
You know, if she says something like, you really haven't tried for three years, you know, he can say, gee, that's a really strong reaction to how I've treated your parents.
我想多听听你的想法。
I wanna hear more about that.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
给我一个机会，让我真正理解你的感受。
Give me a chance to really understand what your feelings are.
这样双方都能在达成相互理解中发挥作用，而相互理解正是解决冲突的真正目标。
So both people can play a role in getting to mutual understanding, and mutual understanding is really the goal of conflict.
我结婚快二十年了，经常听到人们用一种认命的语气说，'哦，我们又吵架了'。
I've been married for nearly twenty years now, and the thing I hear from people is almost in a resigned way, like, oh, we had a fight.
还是老样子，总是为同样的事争吵。
It's the same fight we always have.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你把这些称为永恒不变的争吵。
You call these perpetual fights.
争吵。
Fights.
没错。
Right.
在感情关系中，我们是否注定要不断重复从最初在一起时就存在的争吵？
Are we all doomed in a relationship to have the fight that we've been having since we first got together over and over and over again?
是的。
Yes.
不过，这引出了另一种干预方法。
However, this leads to a different intervention.
它被称为'冲突中的梦想'练习。
It's called the dream within conflict exercise.
我们准备了六个问题，能真正挖掘出人们对某个观点潜在层面的感受。
We have a series of six questions that really draw out the subterranean levels of how somebody feels about a particular point of view.
要知道，人们之所以准备互相争斗，是因为在他们的立场之下，存在着许多非常重要的信念和隐藏的梦想。
You know, people are poised to fight one another because underneath their position, there are a lot of very important beliefs and hidden dreams.
69%的关系冲突问题都是永久性的，这意味着它们永远不会消失。
69% of all relationship conflict problems are perpetual, which means that they never go away.
因此我们明白，冲突更多需要的是管理而非解决。
And so we learn that conflict really mostly needs to be managed rather than solved.
为理解而争执意味着围绕某个问题进行深入对话，以理解伴侣立场背后的深层原因。
Fighting to understand means taking a conversation about an issue and going much deeper to understand what's beneath your partner's position on the issue.
这能增进彼此的联系。
That builds the connection.
有位我们暂且称为珍妮的女性，她坚决反对养狗。
There was a woman who we will call Jenny who was adamantly opposed to getting a dog.
但她的伴侣艾莉森却非常支持。
But her partner, Allison, was all for it.
于是她们决定尝试冲突中的梦想对话。
So they decided to try the dreams within conflict conversation.
当艾莉森询问金妮时，'关于这个问题，你内心真正的理想是什么？'
When Allison asked Ginny, so what is your ideal dream here regarding this issue?
你想啊，如果我们不养狗，就不会被束缚，没有负担。
You know, if we don't have a dog, we're not tied down, we're not burdened.
我们可以自由地一起环游世界。
We're free to travel the world together.
这正是我真正想要的。
That's what I really want.
现在听听艾莉森怎么说。
Now listen to what Alison said.
你知道，我把养狗看作是组建家庭、养育孩子的预演。
You know, I see getting a dog as a practice run for having kids and having a family.
这才是我想要的。
That's what I want.
表面之下，这其实是关于选择冒险旅行的人生，还是居家养育家庭的人生。
Beneath the surface, it was about leading a life of adventure and travel versus staying home and raising a family.
你们建立了如此深刻的理解，从而能够达成妥协。
You generate such a level of understanding that then they can compromise.
让我们找到一个既能尊重你的梦想，也能实现我的梦想的解决方案。
Let's find the solution that honors your dreams and my dream.
但如果找不到解决方案怎么办？
But what if there is no solution?
稍后我们将继续探讨朱莉和约翰·戈特曼关于关系底线的观点——那些无法通过理解化解、可能导致许多伴侣关系终结的根本问题。
When we come back, Julie and John Gottman on deal breakers, the issues that no amount of understanding can fix and that can spell the end for many couples.
今天节目主题：亲密关系中的勇气。
Today on the show, bravery in relationships.
您正在收听的是NPR出品的TED广播时间。
You're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
我是马诺什·扎莫罗迪，稍后回来。
I'm Manoj Zamorodi, and we'll be right back.
这里是NPR出品的TED广播时间。
It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
我是马诺什·扎莫罗迪。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi.
今天节目主题：亲密关系中的勇气。
On the show today, bravery in relationships.
我们刚刚聆听了著名伴侣心理学家约翰和朱莉·戈特曼关于如何正确争吵——通过冲突来强化关系的见解。
And we were just hearing from renowned couple psychologist, John and Julie Gottman, about how to fight right, to use conflict, to strengthen a relationship.
但假设人们遵循戈特曼的方法后，最终意识到他们对生活的追求截然不同。
But let's say people follow the Gottman's methods and come to the conclusion that they want different things in life.
那该怎么办呢？
What then?
确实存在这种情况：一个人的梦想是另一个人的噩梦，双方无法达成妥协，但至少他们明白分手的原因。
It's true that sometimes one person's dream is the other person's nightmare and they cannot reach a compromise, but at least they know why they're breaking up.
一个典型的例子是，一方坚决不愿成为父母，而另一方却极度渴望养育孩子——这是导致许多人分手的常见原因。
A good example is one person really doesn't want to be a parent and the other person really needs to be a parent, you know, that's a common reason why people why many people break up.
我见过的另一个因素是地域问题。
Another one that I've seen is geography.
这很有趣，特别是在当今互联网交友盛行的时代。
And this is interesting, you know, especially in our dating on the Internet world.
我曾治疗过一对情侣，他们在会议上相识，之后有过几次约会。
I treated a couple where they had met at a conference, and then they had several rendezvous together after that.
他住在乌干达。
He lived in Uganda.
她住在瑞士。
She lived in Switzerland.
他们打算住在哪里呢？
And where were they gonna live?
他们彼此相爱，却无法实现共同的未来。
They loved each other, but they couldn't make their future come true.
另一个例子是多边恋与单配偶制的分歧。
Another is polyamory versus monogamy.
这在当下更为常见。
That's a more common one these days.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你觉得这种模式对人们有效吗？
Are you seeing that working for people?
至少在美国，这个问题似乎还没有定论。
It seems like the jury's out on that, at least here in The United States.
是的。
Yeah.
遗憾的是，目前还没有相关研究。
There there is no research on it, unfortunately.
所以，我们实际上并没有实证数据来说明是什么让多伴侣关系得以维系。
So, you know, we really don't know empirically what makes polyamory work.
另一个近年来才真正显现的关系杀手是，当一段关系无法满足其中一方在职业发展、情感需求或精神成长方面的成长需求时。
Another deal breaker minouche that's really emerged quite recently in the last couple of decades is when a relationship really doesn't fulfill the growth needs, either career or emotional or spiritual growth needs of one person.
社会学家们认为，这正是导致关系终结的原因之一。
And that's one reason sociologists have been saying that it leads to the end of a relationship.
我想确认一下，你知道争吵的回报是什么吗？
I wanna just make sure I ask you, you know, what is the payoff of fighting right?
如果我们足够勇敢去面对并解决问题，你认为最终会收获什么？
If we are brave enough to get in there and do the work, what do you see on the other side?
回报就是我们可以获得终身的爱情。
So the payoff is that we can have a lifelong love.
研究表明，当你能做到这一点时，平均寿命会延长15到17年，身体更健康，子女也会成长得更好。
And research has shown that when you can do that, you actually live an average of fifteen to seventeen years longer, you're healthier, and your kids turn out better.
他们成年后的亲密关系也会更加美满。
And their relationships when they grow up turn out better as well.
我在从事夫妻治疗三十年的过程中，见证了一种不同的爱。
What I've seen in doing couple therapy for thirty years now is a different kind of love.
这种爱要深刻得多。
It's much more profound.
它更为深邃。
It's deeper.
这种爱更能认识到伴侣的人性，也更能认识到自身的人性。
It much more recognizes the humanity of the other partner as well as your own humanity.
当你完整地看清一个人，包括他的缺陷后，我想你会对其他人也更为宽容。
And once you've seen one person in their fullness, including the cracks, you tend to be more forgiving, I think, of other people.
看看这个世界吧，玛努什。
And look at this world, Manouche.
这个世界分裂破碎，我们迫切需要更多的爱与和平。
This world is split and fractured, and we desperately need a little bit more love and peace in the world.
这是开始创造这种氛围的一种方式。
This is one way to start creating that.
刚才发言的是朱莉和约翰·戈特曼。
That was Julie and John Gottman.
他们是戈特曼研究所的联合创始人，他们的新书名为《正确争吵》。
They are cofounders of the Gottman Institute, and their latest book is called Fight Right.
关于成功伴侣如何将冲突转化为联结。
How successful couples turn conflict into connection.
你可以在ted.com观看他们的完整演讲。
You can see their full talk at ted.com.
今天节目中要探讨的是人际关系中的勇气——这必然包括友情。
On the show today, bravery in relationships, which has to include friendship.
不过在进入友情话题前，需要提醒本集包含关于性的直白讨论。
But before we get into just friends, a warning that this episode includes some frank talk about sex.
晚上好。
Good evening.
这里是露丝·韦斯特海默医生，正在97 WYNY FM电台为您播音。
This is doctor Ruth Westheimer right here on ninety seven WYNY FM radio.
或许你还记得那位标志性的性治疗师露丝医生。
So maybe you remember the iconic sex therapist, doctor Ruth.
是的。
Yes.
你正在直播中。
You are on the air.
嗯。
Yeah.
露丝？
Ruth?
对。
Yeah.
她在1980年代声名鹊起，因为她是首批在广播和电视上公开谈论性话题的人之一。
She rose to fame in the nineteen eighties because she was one of the first people to openly talk about sex on the radio and on television.
就像谈论阅读、写作和算术一样，你也可以谈论性。
The way you can talk about reading, writing, arithmetic, you can also talk about sex.
她以活泼、热情且不带偏见的形象成为了几代美国人的声音，包括记者艾莉森·吉尔伯特。
She became a lively, warm, and nonjudgmental voice for generations of Americans, including journalist Alison Gilbert.
我曾是那些听众中的一员。
I was one of those listeners.
是的。
Yes.
你正在直播中。
You are on the air.
你好，沃泰姆医生。
Hi, doctor Wartime.
我知道你一直很关注避孕问题。
I know you're always concerned about, birth control.
是的。
Yes.
我是。
I am.
我曾是
I was a
一个荷尔蒙旺盛的青少年，关着卧室门、熄了灯、把收音机音量调到极低，惊讶地发现自己竟能听清她讲述的内容。
teenager with raging hormones who found myself with a closed bedroom door, lights out, radio really so low that I was surprised I could actually hear what she had to say.
你知道我会怎么做吗？
You know what I would do?
什么？
What?
给自己找个新对象吧。
Find yourself somebody else.
哦，但是
Oh, but
我爱查理，他也爱我。
I love Charlie, and he loves me too.
来电者们，那是一个电台热线节目，正在问她那些我当时觉得非常下流的问题。
The callers, it was a call in radio show, were asking her what I thought then were really naughty questions.
就尽量满足她想要的性高潮次数。
Just give her as many orgasms as she would like.
试试看。
Try that.
好吗？
Okay?
好的。
Okay.
谢谢你的建议。
Thanks for that.
妈妈还没准备好和我谈论这些。
Mom was not prepared to talk with me about.
某种程度上，我确实想和他上床。
In a way, I do wanna go to bed with him.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我担心如果我这样做，对我来说是错误的。
I'm afraid that if I do, it's wrong for me to do this.
对。
Right.
我告诉你，有时当我听到一个16岁的孩子问我这个问题时，我真想说：急什么？
I tell you, sometimes when I hear a 16 year old ask me that question, I would like to say, what's the rush?
所以在我成为合作者之前，我就是她的粉丝了。
And so I was a fan before I was ever a collaborator.
可以说当我95岁终于见到她时充满敬畏，她可以说从我小时候就存在于我的世界里。
And so to say that I was in awe when I finally got to meet her at 95, she had been in my world, so to speak, since I was a kid.
成年后，当艾莉森被《纽约时报》指派撰写一篇关于露丝医生新角色的文章时，她兴奋不已。
As an adult, Alison was thrilled when she was assigned by the New York Times to write an article about doctor Ruth's new role.
露丝博士肩负着一项使命——被任命为纽约州首位孤独问题大使。
Doctor Ruth was on a mission to be appointed New York State's first ambassador to loneliness.
她一直在研读和观察被美国卫生局局长称为'孤独与隔离流行病'的现象，并决心通过教导人们如何勇敢建立友谊，为解决这场健康危机贡献力量。
She had been reading and observing what The US surgeon general has called an epidemic of loneliness and isolation, and she was determined to be part of solving this health crisis by teaching people how to have the courage to form friendships.
她知道自己能帮上忙。
She knew she can help.
她有话要说。
She had something to say.
而我接到的报道任务正是记录这项使命。
And the article that I was assigned was to report on this mission.
文章一经发表，我们之间的隔阂仿佛瞬间消融。
And then as soon as the article published, it's like both of our guards went down.
在我还没真正意识到发生了什么时，她已将我温柔包围。
And before I really realized what was happening, she was enveloping me.
如今回首才明白，她那充满爱与友谊的网络，似乎始终在不断扩展。
And what I have come to understand is like her web of love and friendship that seems, now that I look back, ever growing.
我只是觉得自己很幸运能身处那个空间。
And I just found myself fortunate to be in that space.
而我发现的正是你从广播中听到的那份温暖。
And what I found was that warmth you heard through the radio.
特蕾西，我觉得你应该找个新男人。
Tracy, I think that you should find yourself a new man.
好吗？
Okay?
那种她上电视时让观众着迷的魔力。
That magic that captivated TV watchers when she went on television.
你变了
You have changed
为美国而性。
sex for America.
你可别跟我说这样不好。
Don't you tell me that it's less good.
不。
No.
现在更好了。
It's better now.
大家都知道。
Everyone knows it.
现在更好了。
Now it's better.
尽管我遇见她时，她大多时候只能坐在轮椅上，但那份温暖依然存在于她的公寓和客厅里。
Still present in her apartment, in her living room, despite her being, when I met her, mostly confined to a wheelchair.
你认为自己对他人而言是个好朋友吗？
Do you feel that you are a good friend to others?
这是艾莉森与露丝医生在她生命最后几个月的录音，她于2024年以96岁高龄去世。
This is a recording of Alison and doctor Ruth in the last few months of her life before she died at the age of 96 in 2024.
我不仅认为自己是个好朋友，而且是个极其出色的朋友。
I'm not only do I think that I'm a good friend, I'm a superb friend.
我就像是每个人能拥有的最好的朋友。
I'm like the best friend that anybody could have.
艾莉森成为了鲁斯博士最后一本书《连接的快乐》的合作者。
Alison became Doctor Ruth's collaborator on her final book, The Joy of Connections.
自从我丈夫去世后，我就想与孤独抗争。
Since my late husband died, I wanted to fight about loneliness.
所以现在我很高兴能写这本书。
So now I am very happy to write this book.
孤独是一种渴望与人建立更深层次连接的感觉，你会觉得自己没有得到最渴望的东西。
Loneliness is a feeling that you want a deeper connection with people, and you feel like you're not getting what you most desire.
但如果你意识到这只是一种感觉，你就可以采取行动。
But if you recognize it's a feeling, you can do something about it.
事实上孤独是可以治愈的，你可以成为自己的医生。
That loneliness is in fact curable, But you can be your own doctor.
你能做到，你可以遵循她的教导，你并不孤单。
You can do it, and you can follow her lessons, and you're not alone.
我没想到，这其中很多都源于她个人的经历。
A lot of this, I didn't realize, stems back to her own personal story.
从10岁起，她的童年就非常艰难。
It was a rough childhood from 10 years old forward.
大屠杀期间，她的母亲和祖母将她送上火车，作为儿童运输计划的一部分，将德国犹太儿童转移到安全地带。
During the Holocaust, her mother and grandmother put her on a train, part of the Kindertransport, to remove German Jewish children to safety.
她的父亲已被纳粹带走，这是她们试图
Her father had already been taken by the Nazis, and this was their attempt
拯救露丝的生命。
to save Ruth's life.
你无法控制生活会给你带来什么。
You can't control what life is going to throw your way.
这是2015年露丝·韦斯特海默博士在TED舞台上的演讲。
Here's doctor Ruth Westheimer on the TED stage in 2015.
10岁那年，当纳粹掌权时，我被送到瑞士的一家儿童之家，希望我的父母能离开德国来接我。
At the age of 10, when the Nazis came to power, I was sent to Switzerland to a children's home hoping that my parents could get out of Germany and pick me up.
那所儿童之家变成了孤儿院，我从那段特殊时期学会了掌控自己的人生并尽力做到最好。
The children's home became an orphanage, and I have learned some lessons from that particular time to take control of my life and make the best of it.
没有人会替你承担烦恼。
Nobody is going to pick up your worries.
第二天它们依然会存在。
They will still be there the next day.
但在此期间，如果你感到孤独，可以享受人际关系。
But in the meantime, can enjoy the relationship if you are lonely.
我的建议是不要只是坐在那里说，我没有可以依靠的人。
My advice is don't just sit there and say, I don't have anybody.
行动起来。
Do something.
她觉得自己在遭遇最坏的情况后仍具备前进所需的一切，这让她一生都在不断寻找并建立由朋友组成的家人。
She felt she had what she needed to move forward after the worst happened, and that just made her wanna seek and establish a chosen family throughout her entire life that was made up of friends.
她像收集宝石一样，一点一点地积累着朋友。
She kept collecting friends bit by bit like gems.
这真是一堂关于失去整个家庭后仍能继续前行并重建生活的经典课程。
It's a master class, really, of losing your entire family and yet pushing forward and rebuilding.
她认为治愈孤独的主要方法是什么？
What are the main things that she thinks cures loneliness?
给我们一些最重要的建议吧。
Give us, like, the top tips.
我要讲一个故事，我认为这完美诠释了她的秘诀。
I will tell you a story that I think is so illustrative of her secret sauce.
每次我收拾东西准备离开时，她几乎都会用同一个问题来结束对话。
She would end nearly every conversation when I was packing up to go, and she would ask me the same question.
我们什么时候能再见面？
When will I see you again?
这就是我的提示，要拿出她的纸质日历，在上面指定一个日期和具体时间写上我的名字。
And that was my cue to take her paper calendar and to assign my name to a date and a specific time.
这是个充满魔力的问题。
And it's a magical question.
我什么时候能再见到你？
When will I see you again?
这句话传达了她想再次见到我的强烈意愿，这当然让我感到特别，意味着我们之间正在萌发友谊。
It communicates so much that she wanted to see me again, which made me, of course, feel special that there was a burgeoning friendship.
但这也展现了她对生活积极主动的真实态度——她不会把想要的东西交给偶然。
But it also showcases her real interest in being proactive about her life, that she was not gonna leave to chance what she wanted.
好的。
Okay.
所以你必须主动付出努力。
So you have to make an effort.
听起来有点老生常谈，但确实必要。
Sounds kind of obvious, but necessary.
我完全不觉得这是显而易见的。
I don't think it's obvious at all.
我认为我们都把自己过度分散了。
I think we all spread ourselves so thin.
而露丝博士会说，这种广度常常与深度相矛盾。
And that breath, doctor Ruth would say, is at odds oftentimes with depth.
所以要选择有意义的忙碌，而不仅仅是忙碌。
And so opt for meaningful busyness, not just busyness.
说得真好。
Love that.
但她还说过你需要扩展你的交友词汇量。
But she also says that you need to broaden your friend vocabulary.
我太喜欢这一点了。
I love that.
对吧？
Right?
因为她不想让人产生误解，觉得天哪。
Because she was she didn't wanna give people the wrong idea that, oh my gosh.
我需要一个最好的朋友。
I need a best friend.
我需要一个死党。
I need a BFF.
如果没有那个人，我就完蛋了。
If I don't have that one person, I'm doomed.
你可以有个熟人。
You can have an acquaintance.
你可以有个偶尔见面的人，但你们共同做的事会让你觉得眼界更开阔、体验更深刻。
You can have someone who perhaps you see infrequently, but what you do together is an experience that you feel broadens and deepens.
我喜欢去她在纽约的公寓拜访她，因为每次我们出门，她都能跟所有人打招呼。
I loved visiting her in her apartment building in New York City because when we would go outside, she would know everybody.
他们会主动跟她聊天，而她也不会轻易放他们走。
They would engage her in conversation, but she would not let them go either.
这些都是非常美妙的短暂交谈，因为即便是与陌生人互动，哪怕只是一句简单的问候，也能帮助我们在社群中与他人建立联结感。
These were just incredible brief conversations because even if we engage with strangers, just a simple hello, it helps us develop a sense of connection in community with other people.
她还有点小狡猾。
She was also kinda tricky.
比如，她还有个小技巧，建议假装需要帮助，比如向邻居借杯牛奶而不是自己出去买，这样就有借口和他们聊天了。
Like, there's another tip where she says, feign needs, like, ask the neighbor for a cup of milk instead of going out to buy it just so that you can, like, have an excuse to talk to them.
你怎么能不爱露丝博士呢？
How can you not love doctor Ruth?
当然。
Sure.
冰箱里可能还有一盒鸡蛋，但如果你在做蛋糕时想找个借口和隔壁邻居聊聊天，那又怎样？
You may have a carton of eggs in the fridge, but if you're making a cake and you feel like you wanna have an excuse to maybe have a conversation with someone next door, so what?
就问他们要个鸡蛋呗。
Ask them for an egg.
我是说，这能有什么坏处呢？
I mean, who is that gonna hurt?
多和邻居进行这些小对话，因为这才是推进关系的方式。
Engage in those little conversations with neighbors because that is what's going to progress a relationship.
在我看来，所有这些技巧、想法和建议的共同点在于，需要你主动迈出第一步开启对话，打断群体并以某种方式融入其中。
It seems to me that what all of these tips and ideas and suggestions have in common is it's on you to make the first move to start up the conversation, to interrupt a group and insert yourself in some way.
你可能会被拒绝，但这没关系。
And you might be rejected, maybe, but that's okay.
这会很难。
It's gonna be hard.
她
She
对抱怨毫无耐心。
had no patience for complaining.
我们就直说吧。
Let's just call it like it is.
她根本不吃这一套。
She would not have any of that.
如何生活取决于你自己。
It is up to you, the individual, to do something with your life.
你已获得这个机会。
You are given this opportunity.
放手去做吧。
Go for it.
没有人会进来推你出门去交朋友。
No one is gonna come in and push you out the door to make friends.
你必须自己下定决心——为了感觉更好，为了通过人际关系丰富生活，这种渴望会形成一股顺风，促使你关掉奈飞节目走出家门。
You have to decide that it's so important to you to feel better, to be enriched by relationships, that you experience the tailwind of needing to turn off Netflix and get out the door.
她会说：去人多的地方。
Go where the people are, she would say.
人们可不会出现在你的沙发上。
They're not on your couch.
这取决于每个人自己。
It's up to each person.
你必须迈出第一步，确保自己正在对抗孤独感。
You have to make the first step to make sure that you are combating the loneliness.
你做了或没做什么，才让自己陷入孤独的境地？
What are you doing or not doing that's put you in a place where you feel lonely?
她会一步步教你如何前进，让你感受到归属感，因为你值得拥有那些让你感到被看见的关系。
And she's gonna show you step by little step how to move forward so you can feel that you belong because you are deserving of relationships that make you feel seen.
这是记者艾莉森·吉尔伯特的报道。
That was journalist Alison Gilbert.
我们将本期节目献给露丝·韦斯特海默博士的纪念，她的TED演讲可以在ted.npr.org观看。
We are dedicating this entire episode to the memory of doctor Ruth Westheimer, whose TED talk you can watch at ted.npr.org.
她与艾莉森·吉尔伯特和皮埃尔·勒热合著的新书名为《连接的快乐：100种战胜孤独、活得更幸福更有意义的方法》。
Her new book, co written with Alison Gilbert and Pierre Lejuez, is called the joy of connections, 100 ways to beat loneliness and live a happier and more meaningful life.
非常感谢您收听我们关于人际关系中勇气的这期节目。
Thank you so much for listening to our episode about bravery in relationships.
本期节目由瑞秋·福克纳·怀特、哈沙·纳哈达和凯蒂·蒙特莱昂制作。
It was produced by Rachel Faulkner White, Harsha Nahada, and Katie Monteleone.
由萨纳兹·梅什金普尔和我共同编辑。
It was edited by Sanaz Meshkampur and me.
NPR的制作团队成员还包括詹姆斯·德拉胡西、菲奥娜·吉隆和马修·克卢捷。
Our production staff at NPR also includes James De La Hussi, Fiona Giron, and Matthew Cloutier.
我们的执行制片人是艾琳·野口。
Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi.
特别感谢布米卡·简、尤什·布塔达、米特拉·亚瑟和阿贾尼·丹尼尔参与配音演出。
A special thank you to Bumika Jane, Yush Butada, Mitra Arthur, and Ajani Daniel for voice acting.
音频工程师团队包括蒂芙尼·维拉卡斯特罗、贝基·布朗和帕特里克·默里。
Our audio engineers were Tiffany Veracastro, Becky Brown, and Patrick Murray.
主题音乐由拉姆汀·阿拉布鲁伊创作。
Our theme music was written by Ramtin Arablui.
TED方面的合作伙伴包括克里斯·安德森、罗克珊·海拉什、亚历杭德拉·萨拉查和丹妮拉·巴洛雷索。
Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Roxanne High Lash, Alejandra Salazar, and Daniela Balorezo.
我是曼努什·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听的是NPR出品的TED广播时间节目。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
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