为什么你应该少花点时间陪孩子 | 莱诺·斯肯纳兹

美国正在改变，世界亦是如此。

America is changing. And so is the world.

但美国发生的事不仅是全球动荡的起因，也是各地正在发生的混乱的表征。

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

我是华盛顿特区的阿斯玛查利德。

I'm Asmachalid in Washington DC.

我是伦敦的特里斯坦·雷德曼，这里是《全球故事》。

I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.

每个工作日，我们将为您带来一个发生在世界与美国交汇处的故事。

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

请在bbc.com或您获取播客的任何平台收听。

Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

您正在收听的是《TED每日演讲》，我们每天为您带来激发好奇的新观点与对话。我是主持人伊莉丝·胡。作为三个孩子的母亲，我深知在保护孩子与放手让他们犯错学习之间取得平衡有多难。记者莱诺尔·斯卡尼亚兹在她的演讲中提出，给予孩子更多自由空间或独立性，而非事无巨细地管控，有助于培养韧性，并真正缓解父母与孩子的焦虑。请欣赏。

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. As a mom of three, I know how hard it is to find the balance between wanting to protect my kids and letting go so they can make mistakes and learn on their own. In her talk, journalist Lenore Scaniazi makes the case that letting our kids be a bit more free range or giving them more independence instead of micromanaging their every move helps build resilience and actually eases both parents' and children's anxiety. Enjoy.

我来谈谈育儿这个话题——这有点奇怪，因为如果你搜索'美国最差妈妈'，前22页谷歌结果都是我，紧接着是'美国最差母亲节礼物'。在场的男士们注意了，我们可不想要熨斗，而情趣内衣是父亲节礼物。我怎么得到这个称号的呢？多年前，当我们的小儿子九岁时，他开始请求我和丈夫带他去纽约市（我们居住的地方）某个陌生地点，然后让他自己乘地铁回家。经过商议——顺便说，我丈夫可没被称为'美国最差爸爸'——我们同意了。

I am here to talk about parenting, which is kind of weird because if you Google America's worst mom, you find me there for 22 Google pages, followed by America's worst Mother's Day gift, which, guys, a lot of you here, we don't want an iron and lingerie is for Father's Day. So how do you get a name like that? Well, years ago, when our younger son was nine, he started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he'd never been before, in New York City, where we live, and let him find his own way home by subway. So we talked about it, me and my husband, who you never hear of as America's worst dad. And we decided, sure.

长话短说，我写了篇专栏《为何让九岁儿子独自乘地铁》，两天后我登上了《今日秀》、MSNBC、福克斯新闻和NPR。福克斯和NPR同时报道！够疯狂吧？我知道很多人不会做同样决定，但你们真该看看儿子回家时的样子——

Long story short, I wrote a newspaper column, Why I Let My Nine Year Old Ride the Subway Alone, and two days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News and NPR. Fox News and NPR. Okay? Kind of wild. And I realize that a lot of you would not make the same decision, obviously, but you should have seen our son.

他飘着进门的，开心极了。现在请回忆一件你童年时最热爱的事，比如手电筒捉迷藏或搭堡垒。然后举手示意如果你妈妈当时清楚知道你在哪里。好。

He came into the apartment levitating. He was so happy. So I want you to think back for just a second on something that you absolutely loved doing as a kid, maybe flashlight tag, building forts. And now I want you to raise your hand if your mom knew exactly where you were. Okay.

这里的听众年龄偏大。抱歉。通常举手的是年轻人，因为变化主要发生在他们身上。事实上，这正是我写《自由放养的孩子》这本书的原因。过去一两代孩子独处的时间越来越少，无人看管的时间也越来越短。

It's an older crowd here. Sorry. It is usually the younger people who raise their hands because that's what's changed. In fact, that's what I wrote my book about, free range kids. For the last generation or two, kids have been getting so little time on their own, so little time unsupervised.

当然，其中有些是好的，比如亲子共处很好，孩子需要牢固的情感纽带。但过犹不及，这让我们都抓狂。2021年卫生局长的报告你们很多人可能看过，指出孩子们比以往任何时候都更抑郁焦虑，对吧？

And of course, some of that's good, you know, togetherness is good, kids need a strong bond. But, you know, too much is driving us all crazy. There was the Surgeon General report from 2021, which a lot of you probably saw. It said that kids are more depressed and anxious than ever. Right?

两年后他又发布报告称，父母们也比以往更抑郁焦虑。我说没错，因为我们需要个人空间。过去并不完美，但那时三个世界保持着绝妙平衡：充满单车、冒险和游戏的儿童世界，总是谈论政治和谁要做息肉手术的无聊成人世界（息肉息肉没完没了）。

And then he came out with a report, like, two years later, and it said, parents are more depressed and anxious than ever. I'm like, yeah, because we need our space. Right? The olden days were not perfect, but back then, there were three worlds that were absolutely perfectly balanced. There was the kid world filled with bikes and adventures and playing, and the adult world, so boring, people were always talking about politics and who was having a procedure, a lot of polyps, polyps, polyps, polyps.

还有全家共处的家庭世界，比如度假或晚餐时。但现在这些世界都混在一起了，尤其是手机出现后——即使父母不在孩子身边，也能发信息、通话、定位，平衡被打破了。幸运的是，我来这里就是要告诉大家，有个简单方法可以重新划分这些世界，从一点点'去程序化'开始。我们必须意识到，我们被洗脑认为孩子不在身边时，不是会被找小狗的白面包车绑架，就是会悲剧地考不上哈佛。

And then there was family world, where everyone was together, like on vacation or at dinner. But now they've all been sort of mashed up together, and especially since phones, because now, even when parents aren't physically with their kids, they can be texting and talking and tracking to them, so the worlds are not in balance anymore. Fortunately, the reason I'm here, is that there is a sort of easy way to start teasing the worlds apart again, and it just begins with a little bit of deprogramming. So here goes. We have to realize that we've been sort of brainwashed into believing that any time our kids aren't with us, they're in terrible danger of being kidnapped by a guy in a white sand looking for his puppy or also tragic not getting into Harvard.

结果很糟糕。我都不愿多想。但事实是我们陪伴孩子的时间远超父母当年，通常还在帮他们做本可独立完成的事。我称之为'成年人对童年的接管'，因为密歇根大学两年前研究发现，父母虽然明白独立性重要...

And as a result terrible. I don't even like to think about it. But the upshot is that we are spending way more time with our kids than our parents spent with us, usually helping them do things that they could do on their own. And the I call it the adult takeover of childhood, because it's so vast that what is it? University of Michigan did a study two years ago, and they found that parents want to give their kids independence.

但大多数9-11岁（也就是前青春期）孩子的父母，不让他们和朋友去公园玩，不让步行去朋友家。如果一起逛商店，只有50%允许孩子去其他货架。明白吗？

They recognize its importance. But the majority of parents of kids age nine to 11, which is tweens, right? Kind of old, will not let them play at the park with a friend, will not let them walk to a friend's house. And if they're at the store shopping together, only 50% will let their kid go to another aisle. Okay?

这是密歇根大学的真实数据。现在让孩子去买罐豌豆就像送他们上越南战场，太疯狂了。

That's the real statistic. That's University of Michigan. So sending your kid for a can of peas is like sending them to NAM. Okay? It's just crazy.

我们必须更勇敢些，勇敢到敢让孩子在变声前去罐头食品区或公园。怎么做？我有两个事实依据和三个解决方案。第一个事实是：

We've got to get braver than that. We've got to get brave enough to send our kids to the canned food aisle or to the park before their voice changes. So how? Well, I've got two helpful facts and three solutions. Helpful fact one is this.

你的孩子不会被绑架。如果非要计算他们被陌生人拐走的概率，按统计数据需要让他们在户外待多久？七十五万年。

Your kid is not going to be kidnapped. Okay? If for some reason you wanted them to be snatched off the street by a stranger, statistically, how long would you have to keep them outside? Seven hundred and fifty thousand years. Okay?

相当漫长。而且十万年后他们早不是孩子了，连可爱都谈不上，都成尘埃了。第二个事实是：当孩子离开我们和所有'可教时刻'时，他们其实学得更多。

It's a while. And after the first hundred thousand, they're not even kids anymore. They're not even cute. They're like dust. Fact two is that when our kids aren't with us and all our teachable moments, they're actually learning more.

让我来解释一下。当成年人组织游戏时，我们很有效率。对吧？我们决定玩什么、球是否出界、谁该得奖杯，这很简单因为人人有份。对吧？

And let me explain. When adults organize a game, we are efficient. Right? We decide what they're going to play and whether the ball was in or out and who gets a trophy, which is easy because everyone. Right?

但当孩子们自己组织游戏时，简直一团糟。特别是当一群年龄各异的孩子在一起时，就像《花生漫画》里的那群孩子。他们得先决定玩什么，然后要公平分队，经过大量协商，还要在争吵发生时维持游戏进行——而争吵是必然的。在这个过程中，他们学会了如何促成事情、如何执行决策、专注力、妥协精神、沟通技巧，所有这些成为健全人类所需的技能。如果让12岁孩子给5岁孩子投球——这在成人组织的体育活动中绝不会发生——那么三振幼儿园小朋友也没什么光荣可言。

But when kids are organizing a game, it is a total mess. You've got especially if you've a bunch of kids of different ages, like the Peanuts gang. Well, they have to decide what they're going to play, and then they have to make the teams kind of even, lot of negotiating, and then you have to keep the game going, even when there are arguments, which there will be. So along the way, they're learning, how to make something happen, how to get by an executive function, focus, compromise, you know, communication, just all the skills they need to be a functioning human being. And if if, like, a 12 year old ends up pitching to a five year old, which would never ever happen in adult organized sports, well, there's no glory in striking out a kindergartner.

对吧？所以大孩子会温柔地投球，小孩子轻轻一碰，大孩子就会惊呼'天啊是全垒打'。小不点欣喜若狂，对吧？但大孩子同样开心，因为他正在做一件新鲜事。

Right? So the older kid throws the ball kind of gently, and the little kid taps it, and the older one goes, my god, it's a home run. And the little kid is so ecstatic. Right? But the older one is too, because he's doing something new.

他正在学习如何共情、如何慷慨、如何成为大人。这才是最具教育意义的时刻。当我们通过时刻陪伴、帮助和鼓励孩子'干得好，小伙伴'来剥夺这些经历时，他们会焦虑，因为他们看不到自己能做多少事、能独立应对多少挑战。我们也会焦虑，因为我们同样看不到这些。于是我们都承受着不必要的焦虑。

He is learning how to emphasize and how to be generous, how to be an adult. And that's the most teachable moment of all. When we take those experiences out of our kids' lives by always being with them to help them and high five them, good job, good buddy, you know, they get anxious because they don't see how much they can do, how much they can handle on their own. And we get anxious because we don't see it either. And so we're all feeling way more anxious than we have to.

我们能做什么？是这样的：八年前，社会心理学家乔纳森·海特和我及另外两人成立了非营利组织，让父母们能轻松、正常且合法地'放手让孩子成长'。事实上我们就把组织命名为'Let Grow'（放手成长）。

What can we do? Here's the deal. About eight years ago, the social psychologist Jonathan Hite and I and two others got together, and we started a nonprofit to make it easy, normal and legal for parents to let go and let grow. Okay? In fact, we call our organization Let Grow.

由于'没人敢让孩子做任何事'这个集体性问题需要集体解决方案——大家同时行动就不会感到内疚、怪异或被指责（天啊最怕被指责）——我们推出了两个免费校园项目和新法案。法案规定：让孩子在公园和朋友玩耍、独自去商店等行为不违法。我们称之为《合理童年独立法案》，截至上个月已在九个州通过。

And because a collective problem, which is nobody letting their kids do anything, needs a collective solution, everybody doing it at the same time so you don't feel guilty or weird or judged, God forbid judged, we came up with two school programs that are free and one new law. The law is this. The law says that it is not illegal to let your kid play at the park with a friend or walk to the store, do all sorts of things on their own. We call it the Reasonable Childhood Independence Law, and so far, as of last month, it has been passed in nine states. Yes.

没错。谢谢。是的，这是项伟大的法案。实际上佛罗里达州明天就要投票表决。

Right. Thank you. Yeah. It's a great law. And actually, they're voting on it in Florida tomorrow.

接着说我们的两个校园项目：我们希望学校课后保持开放，不只是为了国际象棋、作业辅导、足球这些成人主导的活动，而是真正实现混龄、无电子设备的自由玩耍。放些球、粉笔、纸箱，角落里蹲着个拿着肾上腺素笔的成年人。但他们不调解争执、不组织游戏，就像救生员一样。明白吗？

Anyways, and then our two school programs are these. We would like schools to stay open after school, not just for chess and homework help and soccer and all these adult run activities, but for actual mixed age, no devices, free play. You put out some balls, some chalk, cardboard boxes, and there is an adult there crouching in the corner with an EpiPen. But they don't solve the arguments, they don't organize the game, they're like a lifeguard. Okay?

我知道大家都认为孩子只想溜回家玩手机。但他们真正渴望的是彼此相伴、尽情玩耍、冒险，或许还有懵懂的情愫。如果唯一不受成人监督的地方只有手机，他们当然会沉迷其中。但如果你给他们一个无手机、充满伙伴、有大把时间的空间，他们会爱上那里。

And I know everyone thinks that kids just want to roam home, they really want to be with their phones. They really want to be with each other. They really want to be having fun, playing, having adventures, maybe flirting. And if the only place they can do that without constant adult supervision is on their phones, of course, that's where they go. But if you give them back a place that's free of phones, filled with kids, a swath of time, They love it.

我去过这些游戏俱乐部，太棒了。我把它们视为童年的野生动物保护区。很简单对吧？

I've I've gone to these play clubs. It is so great. I consider them a wildlife sanctuary for childhood. Right? Simple.

首先，保持学校开放供孩子们自由玩耍。对吧？我们建议的第二点是让学校实施‘放手成长’体验。具体做法是老师布置家庭作业：在父母允许但不参与的情况下，独自尝试新事物。可以是爬树、遛狗、煎薄饼，内容不限，根据年龄和社区环境等因素来决定。

Just just keep the schools open for free play. Right? The second thing we suggest is that schools do the let grow experience. And that's when teachers give kids the homework assignment that says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents' permission, but without your parents. You can climb a tree, walk the dog, make pancakes, doesn't matter, anything, depending on your age and your neighborhood, etcetera.

目前已有超一千所学校开展此项目。去年我们听说一个10岁左右的男孩，他决定为‘放手成长’作业给全家做晚餐。他去商店采购食材，正当他挑选商品时，却找不到辣酱。想到要像个傻瓜一样向店员求助，他感到无比渺小，最终冲出商店。

And it's in just over a thousand schools so far. And last year, we heard of one kid who was 10 or 11, and he decided for his let grow experience, he would make dinner for his family. So he went to get the ingredients at the store, and he's shopping and he's getting everything, and then he can't find the hot sauce. And the idea of asking a clerk for help going up to an adult like a moron, an idiot, he just felt so tiny, he couldn't do it. He ran out of the store.

他直接扔下购物车和所有商品逃走了。但后来他又折返，主动询问店员并买到了辣酱。表面看这只是件小事，但从另一个角度说，这堪称英雄的旅程。

He literally left his cart and all the other groceries there, and he bolted. And then he went back in, and he talked to the clerk, he got the hot sauce. And in one sense, it's just a simple errand. Right? But in another sense, it's the hero's journey.

对吧？因为他经历了挫败与羞辱，甚至一度放弃任务——就像英雄旅程故事里描述的那样。但最终他靠自己完成了这件事。‘我自己做到的’正是童年最具魔力的宣言。

Right? Because he had been defeated and humiliated. He actually abandoned his quest, just like they say in those hero's journeys books. But then he went back in, and he did it himself. I did it myself are childhood's magic words.

‘我自己做到的’是最原始的焦虑粉碎机。如果现在让大家回忆孩子/孙辈/学生让你最骄傲的时刻，多半是这样的场景：昨晚他在外过夜，别的家长打电话夸他主动收拾餐桌；度假时她迷路了却自己找回酒店；我孩子昨晚带表弟妹打球，特意让五岁小孩打了个全垒打。

I did it myself is the original anxiety buster. And in fact, if I ask you right now, and probably we'll talk about it later, to remember something that made you really proud of your own kid or your grandkid or your niece or your student or nephew, whatever, it's usually something like, you know, he was on an overnight last night, and the other mom called to say he cleared the table. Really? Or we were on vacation, and she got lost, but she found her own way back to the hotel. Or my kid took the cousins out last night and let the five year old get a home run.

当孩子独立完成某件事时，是我们最骄傲的时刻，也是他们最自豪的时刻。因此解决家长焦虑危机和孩子焦虑危机的方案竟完全一致：必须重新划分两个世界，让孩子世界与成人世界分离，恢复平衡。

We're most proud of our kids when they do something on their own. And our kids are most proud of themselves when they do something on their own. So the solution to the parent anxiety crisis and the kid anxiety crisis turns out to be the exact same thing. You've got to pull apart those worlds again. You've got to put the kid world separate from the parent world, put them back in balance.

必须让孩子在广阔天地里独立行动——不追踪、不通话、不发短信，纯粹信任他们能独立应对。如果你能做到放手，我保证你的孩子会减少焦虑、变得更聪慧，他们会感到无比自豪——但绝不会比你更自豪。谢谢。

You've got to let kids do something on their own in the big wide world, maybe without even tracking them or talking to them or texting them, just trusting them to do something on their own. And if you can do that, if you can let go, I can guarantee your kids are going to end up less anxious. Your kids are going to end up smarter. And your kids are going to feel really proud, but not as proud as you. Thank you.

谢谢。你。谢谢。那个

Thank you. You. Thank you. That

是Lenore Skenazi在TED2025的演讲。

was Lenore Skenazi speaking at TED twenty twenty five.

若对TED内容策划感兴趣，请

If you're curious about TED's curation, find

更多内容请访问ted.com/curationguidelines。

out more at ted.com/curationguidelines.

以上就是今天的全部内容。TED Talks Daily是

And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of

TED音频合集的一部分。本次演讲经过TED研究团队的事实核查，由我们的团队——Martha Estevanos、Oliver Friedman、Brian Green、Lucy Little和Tansika Sungmarnivong制作并编辑。本集混音由Christopher Faizy Bogan完成。额外支持来自Emma Taubner和Daniella Balarezo。我是Elise Hu。

the TED audio collective. This talk was fact checked by the TED research team and produced and edited by our team, Martha Estevanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, and Tansika Sungmarnivong. This episode was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniella Balarezo. I'm Elise Hu.

明天我将带着新鲜的观点回归您的订阅列表。感谢收听。

I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening.

心理学家兼青少年专家Lisa D'Amour表示，尽管关于孩子及其心理健康的统计数据令人担忧

Psychologist and teen expert Lisa D'Amour says that despite all the scary statistics about kids and their mental health

孩子们还好吗？是的。总体而言，他们一如既往地幽默、富有创造力且充满好奇心。

Are kids okay? Yeah. By and large, they are as funny, inventive, curious as they've ever been.

青少年如何应对当今的压力源，以及成年人如何更好地支持他们。这些内容将在下一期的NPR TED Radio Hour播客中呈现。无论您在哪里获取播客，都可以订阅或收听TED Radio Hour。

How teens are coping with today's stressors and how adults can better support them. That's next time on the TED Radio Hour podcast from NPR. Subscribe or listen to the TED Radio Hour wherever you get your podcasts.