最佳CEO如何授权

当人们谈论目标时，他们总是列出很多目标，却很少思考：'哪一个目标能让其他所有事都变得更容易？'

When people say goals, they say a lot of goals, and they don't sort of think about, hey, what is the one that makes everything else much easier?

你知道，就是那个如果我们完成了就能让这一年或这一季度变得非常出色的事情？

And, you know, what is the one the one thing that if we did would be a great year or a great quarter or whatever it is?

谁设定了太多目标？

Who sets too many goals?

嗯，我有点这样。

You know, me a little bit.

但是...

But but

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为万物都存在幂律法则——商业中有幂律，风投中有幂律，生活中也有幂律。

I I think my view is just there's a power law in everything, And power law in business, power law in venture, power law in your life.

通常每个月或每个季度都有一件事，如果你完成了它，其价值会超过其他所有事情的总和。

And there's typically one thing every month or quarter that if you accomplish, it's worth more than everything else combined.

弄清楚那件关键事情是什么，这才是你应该做的。

And figuring out what that one thing is is what you should do.

找出那件事，然后全力以赴去做。

Figure that thing out and then go all in on that.

并不是说拥有其他目标没有价值，但如果你没有确定那件关键事情并全力以赴去实现它，那么我认为这就不够优化。

And not to say that having other goals isn't worthwhile, but if you haven't identified the one thing and gone all in to make that happen, then I think it's not optimized.

我认为这也更容易通过列出一长串清单来拖延你生活中最重要的事情。

I think it's also easier to kind of procrastinate on the most important thing in your life by having a a long list.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以做很多不同的事情，但总有那件关键事情。

And you do a bunch of different things, but there's that one thing.

比如找到你的伴侣。

It's find your partner.

比如创办那家企业。

It's start the business.

真正最基础的是改善我的健康状况，这比其他一切都重要。

It's fix my health that really is more foundational than everything else.

那么说到这个，我很好奇你能否多分享一些你在时间管理方面遵循的框架或原则。

So to that end, I'm curious if you could share more, you know, frameworks or principles you live by in terms of time.

比如，我记得你提到过你尽量把会议集中安排在一天或尽可能少的天数里？

Like, for example, I I believe you put you try to stack meetings in, you know, in a day or or in as few days as possible or something.

对你来说，在时间、精力管理方面有哪些重要的框架呢？

What are what are certain sort of frameworks that are important for you in terms of time, energy, you know, maybe?

高层次来说，布莱恩·约翰逊想要打破生物学的枷锁或者说延长寿命。

High level is that Brian Johnson wants to break the chains of biology or longevity.

而我想打破时间的枷锁。

I wanna break the chains of time.

我经常问自己的问题是：世界上最有价值的资产是什么？

And, you know, the question I ask myself is like, what's the most valuable asset in the world?

不是黄金、比特币，也不是英伟达的GPU集群。

It's not gold or Bitcoin or Nvidia clusters.

是时间。

It's time.

我们总能再融一轮资或再做一笔交易，但你无法重获一个十年。

We can always raise another round or do another trade, but you can't raise another decade.

因此，如果时间是最重要的资产且比一切都更基础，我们就应该专注于掌控它。

And so if time is the primary asset and it's more foundational than everything else, we should focus on owning that and controlling it.

这对不同的人意味着不同的事。

And so for different this means different things for different people.

如果你处于全力扩张阶段，可能意味着每天14场半小时会议，不断面试和处理只有创始人能做的事。

If you're in hardcore scale mode, that may mean half hour meetings for fourteen hours a day, where you are just grinding out interviews and doing things that only you can do as a founder.

也可能意味着清空日程，留出时间畅想产品未来。

Or it may mean clearing your schedule and having time to dream about the future of the product Yeah.

或是大交易。

Or big deals.

我认为关键是要清楚企业所处阶段，然后有意识地规划日程——如果回顾上月发现日程安排与最高目标不符，那就有问题。

And I think you just have to know what stage of the business you're in, and then design your calendar purposefully around And if you look back on the last month, and the calendar does not reflect your highest goals, then you're not doing it right.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得基思·拉博伊曾跟我分享过这个想法，每周结束时对过去一周的日程进行审计。

I remember Keith Raboy shared with me this idea of, like, at the end of every week, do a calendar audit of the past week.

比如，有哪些会议是你希望自己没参加的？

Like, what are the meetings you had that you wish you wouldn't have?

然后看看

And then just look at the

下一周。

next week.

我是说，有些地方你知道，Athena系统可以主动帮你做这件事，但AI显然会在某些领域实现自动化。

I mean, there's a place you know, Athena systems can do this proactively for you, but there's a place that AI is obviously gonna automate Yeah.

而且这将非常强大。

And it will be very powerful.

或者是在每周结束时。

Or it's at the end of it each week.

它只是告诉你，这些是你优先考虑的事情。

It just tells you, here's what you prioritized.

这些实际上就是你的目标。

Those are actually your goals.

是的。

Yeah.

如果不是这样，那么下周我们就应该调整这些事情。

If not, then next week, we should adjust those things.

没错。

Yeah.

我对你关于会议的理解很好奇。

I'm curious for your interpretation of meetings.

有些人会说，你知道，我希望会议越少越好。

Some people are like, you know, I I wanna have as few meetings as possible.

这意味着这不是最高效的方式。

It means it's not the most efficient.

我宁愿所有事情都异步处理。

I'd rather do everything async.

是啊。

Yeah.

你对异步和同步之间有什么样的思考？

What what is your kind of sort of thinking between async and synchronous?

我是说，Naval有句名言：电话比会议好，语音留言比电话好，文字比语音留言好。

I mean, Naval has a good line that's like, a phone call's better than a meeting, a voice note is better than a call, a text is better than a voice note.

我认为大体上是这样的。

I think in general that's true.

这几乎像是一种代际差异，我感觉你们这代人有点...不太愿意打电话，我们所有事都用短信和邮件处理，但打电话其实非常高效。

And there's this it's almost like a generational thing where I feel like you're in this a little bit of like, there's a reluctance to call people on the phone, and it's just we do everything, text and email, but calling people is super effective.

它的信息传递效率真的很高。

It's really high bandwidth.

没错。

Yeah.

五分钟内就能把事情搞定，所以我个人尽量少开会，多打电话跟人聊五分钟。

You can figure shit out in five minutes, and so I personally try to minimize meetings, and then do more picking up the phone and talking to someone for five minutes.

当我处于更多主席模式时，我会优先考虑尽可能少的会议和语音留言。

When I'm in more chairman mode, then I prioritize as few meetings as possible and voice notes.

而我要求的模式是发语音留言出去，用文字消息回复，因为听语音留言太耗时。

And I I what I request is voice notes out and text message back, because listening to voice notes is slow.

就像马克和特蕾西说的那样折磨人。

It's assault as Mark and Tracy.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

有意思，你知道我最喜欢的自助书籍之一《高效能人士的七个习惯》讲的就是这个。

It is interest you know, one of my favorite self help books is the seven effective habits of how it affects people.

其中有一条原则是：处理任务时要讲效率，但与人打交道时要讲效果。

And one of their, you know, principles at Maxim's is this idea of like efficiency with when it comes to achieving, you know, tasks or accomplishing tasks, but effectiveness when it comes to people.

所以，你知道，高效的路径未必是有效的路径，因为你可能在前端节省了一些时间，但可能会在后端积累某种债务。

And so, you know, the efficient path might not be the effective path because you might sort of save some time on the front end, but you you might, you know, accrue sort of a debt on the on the back end.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，发短信可能是高效的，但你知道，保持这种动态关系很重要。

And, yeah, might be efficient to just send a text or something, but, you know, keeping the dynamic yeah.

电话显然被低估了，而且

Phone calls are obviously under underrated and

没错。

Yep.

确实如此。

That's true.

远程文化也是。

Remote cultures too.

就像，文化会因缺乏带宽而积累债务。

Like, cultures build up debt of just the lack of bandwidth.

所以如果你处于远程文化中，应该每隔几个月就线下聚几天。

And so if you are in a remote culture, you should get together every couple months for a few days in person.

当创始人寻求建议时，比如该如何分配时间，你是怎么考虑的？

How do you think about how, when founders are asking for advice, like, how how should I spend time?

比如，什么是最重要的？

Like, what what's most important?

有哪些框架能帮助创始人思考？显然他们可以做的事情太多了。

Like, what frameworks are helpful for founders about thinking about obviously, there's a million things they could be doing.

一天的时间根本不够，连其中一小部分都完成不了。

There's not enough time in the day for, you know, even a fraction of them.

哪些是最重要的关键事项？

What what are the most important ways to to get right?

不管是时间分配问题

Whether it's just time of thumbtack

我是说，或者说看看

mean, or look.

就是打造你的产品，找到客户，筹集资金，建立团队。当创始人问我如何利用助理时，我该做什么？

It's build your product, you see it's customers, raise capital, build And your when founders ask me, like, how to leverage an assistant, what should I be doing?

我的回答方式是：你当前最重要的两个目标是什么？如果是招聘，你应该专注于敲定候选人，而不是处理所有邮件。

My the way I turn around is, like, what's your top two goals for the If it's recruiting, you have to be closing candidates, you don't need to be sourcing all of the emails.

你可以录个语音备忘录说：这是我想要你联系的模板。

You could pull up a voice note and say, here's a template I want you to reach out to.

让我来梳理一下我的人脉。

Here's let me go through my contacts.

这里有20个人选。

Here's 20 people.

发一封邀请邮件，请他们为这个职位推荐人选。

Send an outreach email asking them for suggestions for this role.

如果你的目标是融资，是的。

You know, if your goal is to raise capital Yeah.

你的助理可以帮助管理整个流程。

Your assistant could help project manage the the process of all of that.

所以，第一步是设定目标，然后将它们分解为子任务。

And so, you know, step one is you set your goals, and then you break them down into subtasks.

虽然你的助理无法独立完成融资，但可以处理其中的某些环节。

And then your assistant won't be able to run the fundraise, but can run components of it.

你的工作就是把事情分解到最小可交付单元。

And your job is just to decompose things into the smallest part that you can hand off.

也许你需要某种前线部署机制，不仅是助理，还需要有人协助你。

Maybe you should have some sort of, like, forward deployed, you know, sort of thing of it's it's not just the assistant, but it's also someone that helps you Mhmm.

真正发挥最大杠杆效应，并关注你的活动情况。

Like, really get the most leverage out of it and watches, you know, your your activity.

我们从这个业务中学到的一点是，最初启动时我们以为只要雇佣最优秀的助理，匹配给客户就万事大吉。

One of our learnings from this business, when we first started it, we were like, we're just gonna hire the best assistants, match them with clients, and boom.

对吧。

Right.

太棒了。

Amazing.

但我们匹配了前五位助理后，每个客户都说了同样的话。

But we matched the first five assistants, and every single client said the same thing.

我该如何委派日程管理？

How do I delegate calendar?

我该如何委派收件箱管理？

How do I delegate inbox?

于是我们清楚地意识到需要投入更多精力来真正教会客户

And so it became clear we needed to invest more in actually teaching the clients Yeah.

如何委派任务，因为这和助理能力一样都是制约因素。

How to delegate, because that is as much of a constraint as the assistants.

我们现在有几千名助理和客户，如果你观察雅典娜公司表现最好的助理，他们都为最擅长委派的人工作。

And we've got a few thousand assistants and clients, and if you look at the best performing assistants at Athena, they work for the best delegators.

这不是巧合。

It's not a coincidence.

确实。

Yeah.

他们之所以最优秀，是因为有人掌握了如何输出想法、拆解项目、建立标准流程，从而让助理如虎添翼，而那些不太擅长委派的人

The reason they're the best is because someone has figured out how to export their ideas, decompose projects, create SOPs in a way that helps the assistant fly, and the more mediocre delegators Yeah.

在这方面很吃力，需要更多培训。

Struggle with that and need more training.

是的。

Yeah.

有一点你做得特别出色，无论是在Stunt Tech还是Athene，就是高管招聘。

One one thing that you've been phenomenal at is, whether it's Stunt Tech or Athene, is is hiring executives.

你认为自己做法有何不同？或者说，指导你高管招聘流程的核心原则或框架是什么？

What do you think that you do differently, or what what are the principles or frameworks that really guide your sort of exec hiring process?

很明显的一点是，高管层级越高，面试能力就越强，这几乎是必然的。

I mean, one thing that is obvious as you hire execs is the more senior they go, the better they are at interviewing, almost by definition.

所以到了C级别，他们个个都是面试高手。

And so when you get to C Suite, they all are really good at interviewing.

因此职位越高，你反而要更弱化面试环节的作用。

And so you actually have to discard the interview more the more senior they go.

因此，职位越高，我越会更多地使用背景调查。

And so I I use references much more the higher you go.

另外我认为很有趣且人们应该多做的是，我会直接索要他们的360度评估报告。

And then the other thing that I think is interesting that people should do more of is I just ask people for their three sixty reviews.

比如在他们上一家公司，有10个人写了关于他们优缺点的诚实评价，我就直接要求查看这些内容。

Like, at their last company, 10 people wrote reviews of them that are honest about their strengths and weaknesses, and I just asked to see it.

我会说，嘿，

And I say, hey.

我可以把我的分享给你，

I'll share you share mine.

你也把你的给我看看。

You show me yours.

其实我觉得这可以做成一个很酷的推荐平台创业项目，你可以直接向LM（直线经理）询问某人情况，而不是找推荐人。

I actually think this would be a cool kind of reference pro startup where you could, like, ping the LM about someone versus pinging their references.

所以我试图获取更多关于这个人的真实情况，因为到了高管级别，面试表现通常都会很好。

So I try to get to more ground truth on the person versus the UX of interview is just gonna be pretty good when you get to the senior level.

在进行背景调查时，最重要的是什么？你真正想了解的是什么？怎样才能从中获取最有价值的信息？

What's most important in when you're when you're doing reference checks, what are you really you know, what what's the way to get the most signal out of them?

我经常告诉别人的是：'我可能会聘用这个人，现在告诉我你不喜欢他们的所有方面。'

I mean, what I often tell people is, hey, I'm probably gonna hire this person, and now tell me all the things you don't like about them.

对。

Yeah.

或者他们可以改进的地方。

Or things that they could be better at.

没错。

Yeah.

因为你知道，人们总是倾向于只说好话。

Because if, you know, people are so biased to just tell you all the good things.

你必须让他们觉得这是一个可以安全分享优缺点的地方，是的，做足够多的背景调查直到这些评价开始趋于一致。

You have to get them to to see it as a safe place to share strengths and weaknesses, and, yeah, just do enough references until they start to sound the same.

当这些评价开始一致时，你就得到了有效信号。

And once they start to sound the same, then you've got a signal.

嗯。

Yeah.

我有个喜欢问的问题是：哪些技能组合对这个人会是重要的补充？

Well, one question I like to ask is what skill sets would be really important to compliment this person with?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这其实是另一种问法——他们不擅长什么？

It was another way of just saying what are they bad?

对。

Yeah.

比如，你知道，什么才是真正重要的？

Like, you know, what's really important?

或者我会问：如果六个月或一年后这事没成，你觉得可能是什么原因？

Or one of my questions is, if this didn't work out in six months or a year, you know, why would that be?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，寻找人才的最佳方式——我最近刚聘用了一位高管——就是直接询问你最尊敬的人，他们标准最高，谁是最佳人选？

And, I mean, the best way to source talent, I just hired an executive recently, is just ask the people that you respect the most, they have the highest standards, who's the best person?

比如说，列出在这个职位上标准最高的三个人。

So, like, here's the three people who have the highest standards in this role.

我会请他们推荐两三个最优秀的人选，然后尝试聘用其中之一。

I ask them for the two or three best people, and I go try to hire one of them.

对。

Yeah.

这就是快速聘用高管的方法。

And that is the, like, speed, rapid way to hire an exec.

你知道，如果通过猎头公司，要花三个月时间，拿到一堆陌生候选人，但通过高标准人脉网络就...没错。

You know, using an exec recruiter, you spend three months, you get all these cold leads, but going through a network of high bar people is Yeah.

效率超高。

Super efficient.

有句格言说，差不多半数高管，你知道的，最终都...嗯...

There's some maxim that almost, like, half of executives, you know, don't work out within, like, Mhmm.

你知道的，十二到二十四个月。

You know, twelve to twenty four months.

说得通。

Checks out.

是啊。

Yeah.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

我认为主要是因为面试过程难以评估，它并不能真实反映他们实际的工作表现。

I think it's just it's difficult to judge the interview process is not representative of the work they're doing.

这归根结底是面试机制的缺陷——面试本应该是让候选人展示他们将要从事的工作内容。

And that's ultimately what's broken about interviewing is interviewing should be someone doing the work they're gonna do.

就像早年Weebly会让高管先来工作两周试用，然后再决定是否聘用。

And it was like Weebly back in the day would actually have execs come work for two weeks to trial before they ever hired.

这种做法执行起来有难度，因为人们还有别的职务在身，但我确实认为这类方式很有意义。

That's difficult to pull off because people have other jobs, but I do think something like that makes a lot of sense.

你们的面试流程与他们实际工作内容相比，在很大程度上是脱节的。

Your interview process is just kind of irrelevant compared to what the work they're doing in lots of Yeah.

基思有句格言说，你不可能做到100%的招聘成功率，就像你不可能做到100%的投资成功率一样。

And Keith has this maxim that that's like, you're you're not gonna get a 100% hiring in the same way you're not gonna get a 100% investing.

而且如果...

And if Yeah.

你知道，就像你也想避免陷入不敢冒险或行动太慢的陷阱。

You know, like, you also wanna avoid the, you know, of not the trap of not taking enough risk or moving too slow.

是啊。

Yeah.

只要你能快速止损就没问题。

And as long as you cut your losses quickly, it's okay.

如果你不及时止损，窟窿就会越滚越大，那才叫痛苦。

It's well, if you, like, don't cut losses, then you compound a hole, and that's where it's painful.

我想说的另一点是，对所有面试流程来说，基于实际项目的考核更有价值。

The the other thing I'd say is more useful for, basically, all interview process is project based work.

是的。

Yeah.

就像是为团队某个部分招聘一位高管一样。

So it's just like, you know, hiring a c suite for one prod one part of the team.

我只是告诉他们组织中的痛点在哪里。

I just tell them what the pain points in the org are Yeah.

以及我想解决的问题，然后让他们制定一个计划。

And what I wanna fix, and I'm like, come up with a plan.

对。

Yeah.

比如，你会如何解决这个问题？

Like, how would you fix this?

没错。

Yeah.

就像如果我们雇用了你，你就得负责解决它。

Like, if you we hire you, you're then gonna do it.

是的。

Yeah.

这类实际工作更有用。

And that sort of practical work is more useful.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很有趣。

That's really interesting.

回到其他创始人原则，你对公司透明度的立场是什么？

What going back to other sort of founder principles, what is your stance on transparency with the company?

比如，哪些信息是有帮助的？

Like, what's information that's helpful?

也许可以回顾一下Thumbtack时期。

Maybe going back to Thumbtack Days.

对公司员工来说，了解哪些信息是有帮助的？

What's helpful for the the company to employees to know?

或者说，有哪些原则会指导你决定分享多少信息？

Or, like, what what are principles, like, that guide, you know, how much you share?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，默认透明当然是最好的，但显然也有一些界限。

I mean, default transparency is obviously the best, but there's obviously some lines.

在Thumbtack时，有个时刻你可能还记得，十年前，我醒来时收到菲律宾团队的一条消息，说Thumbtack在互联网上消失了。

I there's, you know, at Thumbtack, there was a moment, you may remember this, a decade ago, where I woke up and I had a message from someone on our team in The Philippines, and it said, Thumbtack does not exist on the Internet.

我当时就懵了，什么情况？

I was like, what?

没错。

Yeah.

我去谷歌搜索Thumbtack，结果什么也没显示。

And I went to Google, you type in Thumbtack, and nothing shows up.

我们基本上被谷歌判了死刑。

And we basically received the death penalty from Google.

这是个误会。

There was a misunderstanding.

他们以为我们做错了什么，结果直接把我们封杀了。于是我们的流量归零，收入也归零。

They thought we'd done something wrong, but they, like, eliminated And so our traffic went to zero, and our revenue went to zero.

我记得那天醒来后去办公室，看到25名新入职的Thumbtack员工，那天是他们的第一天。

And I remember waking up, and, like, I go to the office, and there's a class of 25 new thumbtackers, who is their first day.

本该由我来给他们做入职培训的。

I'm supposed to do the onboarding with him.

还有记者在外面转悠想套话。

There's a journalist, like, walking around outside trying to get a quote.

这种时候你就不能全盘托出，虽然你内心是希望保持透明的。

And, you know, that's one of those times where you can't share everything, and so you want to ultimately be transparent.

但要是直接对新员工说'公司可能要完蛋了'，这肯定行不通。

But if I just walked into a new class and say, hey, the business might be dead, It's not gonna work.

所以你得先掌控住局面，让该知道的人知道就行。

And so you have to kinda get a handle of the situation, you know, the people who need to know it know it.

一旦有了计划和解决方案，就会告知全公司。

And then once there's a plan and a solution in place, then the whole company is told.

嗯。

Yeah.

这这这很有道理。

That that that makes sense.

在Thumbtack时，你是非CEO的联合创始人，坚持了将近十年，现在当然还在董事会。

At Thumbtack, you were a non CEO cofounder, and you lasted, you know, a decade or almost a decade, and you're still on the board, of course.

我觉得这在创始团队中相当罕见，尤其是非CEO又非CTO的成员，通常很难坚持超过五年左右。

I feel like it's pretty rare when I think about cofounding teams that it feels like the non CEO, especially if not a CTO, usually doesn't last, you know, over five years or something.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我很好奇在联合创始人关系中哪些方面必须处理好，或者你如何为你投资的公司提供建议。

I'm curious what's really important to get right in in cofounder relationships or how you think about advising, you know, companies that you invest in.

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，我听过红杉的迈克尔爵士说过类似的话，大意是创始人只能有一个。

I mean, I heard sir Michael at Sequoia say something that was like, there's only one founder.

是啊。

Yeah.

他是在一个创始人活动上说的这句话。

And it was at he said it at a founder event.

我当时就觉得，这话太失礼了。

And I was like, that's rude.

现场明明有很多联合创始人。

There's lots of cofounders here.

但十年后的现在，我明白了：确实只有一个联合创始人能走到最后，因为随着组织规模扩大，最终只能有一个人站在顶端。

And now a decade later, I'm like, of course, there is only one cofounder that goes a distance because, ultimately, as you scale the org, it only makes sense to have one person on top.

没错。

Yeah.

所以我觉得这就是现实。

So I think that's just the reality.

要知道，在创业前明白这一点是很有帮助的。

And, you know, it's good to know that going into starting a business.

关于如何选择合伙人，我的建议是选一个你想与之结婚的人。

In terms of who to pick, my advice is you pick someone you wanna get married to.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且你会经历与伴侣相同的各种关系问题。

And you're gonna have all the same relationship issues you have with a partner.

虽然没有床头吵架床尾和这回事，但同样会有高潮低谷，你需要选择一个你真正深度信任的人，因为总会遇到压力和挑战。

You know, no makeup sex, but it's still like, yeah, there's highs, lows, and you want someone that ultimately you you really deeply trust because there's gonna be stress and challenges.

只要你们彼此信任这个基础，就有了良好的发展根基。

But as long as you trust the foundation, then you got a good a good thing to build on.

我想说，你知道，最大的一个...

I'd say, you know, one of the biggest I don't

不知道

know if

我在Thumbtack犯了个错误，因为我爱我的创始人们，但我不建议别人这样做，就是我们当时有四位联合创始人。

I called a mistake at Thumbtack, because I love my founders, but it's something I wouldn't recommend others do, is we had four co founders.

其中一位是技术型的。

And one was technical.

他大约两年后就离开了，然后剩下三位都是非技术型的。

He left after, like, two years, and then the other three were nontechnical.

这是创办科技公司最愚蠢的方式，但我们当时完全不懂，不过最后也成功了。

This is, the most idiotic way to start a technology business, but we had no idea what we're doing, and, you know, it worked out.

那你们三位非技术型创始人之间是如何分工协作的？

And how did you divide and con and conquer between those three nontechnical?

我们基本上就是随机应变的。

We just kind of jumped on things.

就是谁擅长什么就做什么。

It's like whoever was good at something Yeah.

但没有明确的执行负责人？

But it no, like, clear executive.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这并不推荐，因为很明显这可能会引发紧张关系。

And I think that's, you know, that's not recommended because there's, like it's obvious how that could create tension.

我们解决了这个问题，但这就是为什么这不是标准做法。

We worked through it, but that's why it's non standard.

对。

Yeah.

不是最佳实践。

Not best practice.

没错。

Right.

但我要回到最初的故事，我记得当时你拿到了GSB的录取，准备去读研究生，但你有大学同学想一起创业，这甚至不是基于个人痛点。

But, I'm going back to the original story because I remember there's this, you got into GSB and you were gonna go to grad school, but you had your buddies from college and you were thinking of starting this business, which wasn't even like a personal pain point.

你们只是觉得这会是个好生意。

You just thought it'd be a good business.

你给GSB发了邮件，告诉他们你不打算接受录取，结果他们回复了一封充满说教的邮件，说你正在犯人生中最大的错误。

And you emailed the, you know, you let the GSB people know you weren't going to accept it, and and they send you back this very moralizing email of how you're making the biggest mistake in your life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

诸如此类的话。

It it, etcetera.

事实证明结果还不错。

You know, it turned out pretty good.

但这是个相当不错的决定。

But how do you pretty good decision.

当时你是怎么下定决心迈出这一步的？

How did you, at the time, think about getting enough conviction to to take the leap and do it?

确实很可怕。

It was scary.

我好不容易考进了这么好的学校。

I got into, you know, this good school.

那看起来是个稳妥的选择。

Seemed like that was a safe bet.

我知道自己想创业。

I knew I wanted to start a business.

而且，如果我去了商学院，我知道自己会背负大量债务。

And, you know, if I went to business school, I knew that I'd have all this debt.

之后很可能需要找份高薪工作。

I probably might need to get a nice paying job afterwards.

既然要放手一搏，不如趁早行动。

And if I was gonna go for it, I should probably just go for it.

但当院长给我发那封邮件，说什么'这将是你人生中最大的错误'时，

But, yeah, when the dean sent me that email, was like, this is biggest mistake of your life.

他还说了类似'创业公司来来去去，但斯坦福的机会只有一次'这样的话。

And he said something like, can startups will come and go, but you can only come to Stanford once, or something.

这可是千载难逢的机会。

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

我始终没有回复，我把这封邮件保存在特别文件夹里，打算等哪天有科技公司上市时再回复，告诉他我做了正确的决定。

I never responded, and I have it as a email in my this save that I'm just gonna respond to whenever some tech goes public and be like, I made the right decision.

而且，我对这个人其实没什么意见。

And, you know, I have nothing against this guy.

他只是尽职尽责，但心里留点不服输的劲头也不错。

He's just doing his job, but it's good to have a little chips on your shoulder.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

好的。

Okay.

那么有执行助理，还有幕僚长。

So there's EAs and then there's chief chief of staffs.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们应该如何看待这两者之间的区别，以及在首席参谋职位上真正需要把握的重点是什么？

How should we think about sort of the the difference there, and what's really important to get right in chief staff?

除了EA之外，是否还存在一个大家都希望拥有的角色？

Is there is a role that everyone, in addition to EA, wishes they they had Mhmm.

但似乎很难找到合适的人选？

But seems hard to find the right person?

对。

Yeah.

没有正式的定义。

There's no formal definition.

我认为EA通常更偏向行政事务，帮你分担工作，而首席参谋更具进攻性。

I think it's something that an EA is typically more administrative and taking things off your plate, and chief of staff is more offensive.

嗯。

Yeah.

这类人可以跟随你参加会议。

It's the type of person who can follow you into meetings.

你可以委派他们去，比如说，'嘿，帮我参加这个会议'，或者'嘿，今天出了这个问题'。

You could deploy to, hey, like, actually take this meeting for me, or hey, this problem came up today.

去想办法解决它。

Go figure out how to solve it.

所以幕僚长通常具备成为创始人所需的能力。

And so a chief of staff typically has the capabilities to become a founder themselves.

他们选择担任幕僚长的唯一原因，就是想亲身体验做创始人的感觉，为将来自己创业做准备。

And the only reason they take the job as chief of staff is so they can see what it's like to be a founder, so they can go off to do it.

因此你往往会得到那些愿意短期任职的人才，他们能力超群，但不会像助理那样长期留任。

So you kinda get people who do more tours of duty, and you get super high capability, but you don't get the same longevity as an assistant.

你在物色幕僚长时看重什么特质？或者说，这里存在一种矛盾：是选择年轻有冲劲的人（他们显然最初会...嗯...）

What have you looked for in chief stat or what what's sort of the right know, there's sort of this tension between, you know, getting someone younger who's, you know, definitely initially gonna do Mhmm.

愿意干个两三年但更有野心，还是选择经验更丰富但潜力可能稍逊的人？

Do it for for a couple years and is more ambitious versus someone who's been more seasoned, but maybe not as high slope or something?

这个...你是怎么考虑的？

What what what how do you think about?

我的理解是，助理要找能共事十年的人。

The way I break it down is assistant, you find someone you wanna go a decade with.

这种亲密关系的积累非常重要。

The intimacy and the compounding of that relationship is super important.

对。

Yeah.

所以你需要深入寻找，这意味着你可能找不到创业者类型的人，因为他们不会对此感到兴奋。

And so you go deep, and that means you probably don't find a founder because they're not gonna be excited to do this.

而是要找更倾向于照顾者角色、且乐于当二把手的人。

It's someone who's much more of a caretaker and is excited to be number two.

至于参谋长，我纯粹看重潜力——你知道对方几年后就会离开，

And then a chief of staff, I do pure slope where you know the person is gonna move on in a couple

嗯。

Yeah.

但他们确实很有潜力。

Years, but they have yeah.

他们本可以创业，但却选择站在你身边帮忙解决问题

They could start a business, but instead, you get them by your side to help solve And

确实存在这样的人，比如朗斯代尔，或者像阿洛特这类人，他们担任一两年幕僚长后就去创业，然后投资人会投资他们，逐渐建立起这种运作模式的声誉

there there are people, you know, like Lonsdale, maybe like Allot or something, who have, you know, chief of staff for, a year or two, and then they start a company, then they invest in them, and they build kind of this reputation for for doing.

然后他们就有了这种类似校友网络的关系，几乎就是前幕僚长群体，就像彼得·蒂尔的圈子那样不断扩展

And then they have sort of these, you know, alumni, almost a chief chief staff, just kind of, you know, Peter Thiel's are just kind of further

对

Yeah.

贝佐斯就有这样的安排

Bezos has this.

有人专门跟着他

Someone follows him around.

对

Yeah.

参加所有会议

It goes to every meeting.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，确实很酷。

And, yeah, it's cool.

对。

Yeah.

让我们聊聊那些成就斐然的人，我很好奇我们能从他们身上学到什么。

Let let's talk about some some people who get an enormous amount done, and I'm curious what are lessons that we can draw from them.

无论是像Lonsdale这样的人，还是像Elon、Sam Altman这样的——那些你特别有所领悟的人物，哪怕只是远观：他们是如何构建自己的世界的？

Whether it's someone like Lonsdale, whether it's someone like Elon, whether it's someone like Sam Altman, who who who are folks that you've particularly learned something from, even just watching from afar of, like, how do they build their world?

他们是如何运作的？

How do they operate?

我就以Lonsdale为例说一点。

I'll I'll just say one for for someone like Lonsdale.

Thiel在这方面做得非常出色。

Thiel has done this really well.

他们某种程度上是在积累这些特定的人才网络。

They sort of compound these certain talent networks.

所以，无论是斯坦福评论还是整个斯坦福大学。

So, know, whether it's like Stanford Review or just Stanford in general.

他们经常从那里招聘人才，并参与这种人才输送渠道。

They're often hiring people from there and then involved in sort of these talent pipelines.

他们某种程度上，你知道，创建了...他们深入参与黑客马拉松场景。

They sort of, you know, created you know, they're deep in the hackathon scene.

是的。

Yeah.

但他们就是建立了这种专有的、不断积累的人才库，他们持续不断地...

But they just kind of build this proprietary compounding sort of talent base that they're constantly, you know, sort of

我是说，人才获取只是其中一部分。

I mean, the the talent access is part of it.

我认为另一点是有些人拥有无限的野心。

I think the other thing is there are some people who have just limitless ambition.

你就是这种思维方式——'要是我能多做十倍的事会怎样？'

And you're very much this way of like, well, what if I could do 10 times more things?

对。

Yeah.

我认为很多人觉得这不可能。

And I think lots of people just think that's impossible.

对。

Yeah.

但事实并非如此。

But it's not.

这是可能的。

It is possible.

通过授权和赋能，你可以不断实现规模上的复利增长。

And with delegation and empowerment, you can just keep compounding bigger and bigger scale.

我们在与这些高效授权者合作时还发现一个有趣现象：人们总以为只有拥有巨大权力、财富或资源的人才能负担得起这样的团队。

The other thing that's interesting that we've seen from working with these, like, power delegators is people assume that people of great power or wealth or resources can afford this team.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是为什么他们怀有这种雄心壮志。

And then that is why they have this ambition.

但实际上我们看到的情况恰恰相反，当人们通过助手获得更多杠杆时，他们的雄心也会随之增长。

But we've actually seen the opposite is the case, is as people get more leverage with assistant, their ambition increases.

没错。

Yeah.

如果你整天被车管所表格和护照手续拖累，就很难有远大抱负。

And it's difficult to have big ambition if you're just weighed down by DMV forms and passports.

但一旦卸下这些负担，你就能抬高视野，变得更加雄心勃勃。

But once that's off your plate, then you raise your sights, and you can be more ambitious.

然后你从助理升级为幕僚长，不断向上攀升，直到成为蒙斯代尔或者...

And, you know, then you go from assistant to a chief of staff, and you just keep leveling up to, you know, until you're Monsdale or Yeah.

总统。

The president.

我认为这些人另一个令我钦佩的特质是，他们几乎不记仇。

I I think another thing I've admired about some of these people is they, hold remarkably few grudges.

据说彼得·蒂尔曾把埃隆赶出PayPal之类的。

Apparently, Peter Thiel kicked Elon out of PayPal or something.

这些人中有不少几十年前有过恩怨，但他最终还是投资了他的下一家公司。

A lot of these people have had beefs decades ago, and yet he ended up funding his next company.

所以这些人记性很短，如果有人亏待他们或犯了错，他们能很快和解并重新开展业务。

And so, people have very short memories if someone, you know, mistreats them or they make a mistake or something, they're quick to reconcile and just do business again over, yeah.

是啊，我是说，看看万斯总统在成为特朗普的搭档之前是怎么评价他的。

Yeah, mean, look what President Vance said about President Trump before they were partners.

想想看

Think there's a

特朗普其实相当宽容。

Trump's actually quite forgiving.

很多人说过他不少坏话，但只要他们改变主意，他就会继续与他们共事。

A lot of people say a lot of bad things about him, and he'll continue to work with them as long as they change their mind.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得他们只是不惜一切代价想赢，而记仇毫无帮助。

I think there's just a desire to win at all costs, and, yeah, grudges are not helpful.

没错。

Yeah.

就连特朗普和埃隆也是。

Even Trump and Elon.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

虽然有过节，但后来还是和解了。

Getting into it and, you know, reconciling.

对。

Yeah.

要知道，等这期节目播出时，情况会怎样还不好说。

It's, know, TBD where it stands by by the time this comes out.

然后还有一些人似乎拥有相当庞大的团队，比如比尔·盖茨，你知道的，他的团队和运营规模都很大。

And then and then there are some people who seem to have pretty like, you know, Bill Gates has, like, you know, pretty big team, pretty big operation.

但看起来贝索斯和埃隆的团队可能相对精简。嗯。

But then it seemed like Bezos and Elon maybe have like pretty lean Mhmm.

已经参与其中了。

Teamed into it.

是啊。

Yeah.

我很好奇你对这类事情的看法

I'm curious how you think about sort of

我是说，埃隆是最让人费解的那个。

I mean, Elon's the one that makes no sense.

他声称自己没有助理，还要亲自安排日程。

It's he claims to not have an assistant and to be like scheduling stuff.

有个故事说比尔·盖茨想和埃隆安排会面

There's a story of Bill Gates being, like, trying to schedule a meeting with Elon.

他说：'让你助理联系我'

He's like, connect me with your assistant.

而埃隆回答：'不行'

And Elon's like, no.

'我就是自己的助理'

I am my assistant.

我实在难以置信，但埃隆就是个疯子

It's I I hardly believe it, but Elon's just insane.

所以也许他真就这样

So maybe he is that that way.

我觉得正常人想要获得杠杆效应，就得...

I think most normal humans, if you wanna get leverage, you have to Yeah.

学会授权

Delegate.

我是说，我见过最酷的私人团队之一就是这个亿万富翁的。

I mean, the one of the cool personal teams I saw is this guy who's a billionaire.

他经营着一家对冲基金，手下有40人的团队。

He runs this hedge fund, and he has a team of 40.

他有八位私人行政助理。

He has eight personal executive assistants.

所有行政助理都毕业于普林斯顿，门槛高得离谱。我当时问管理这个助理团队的女性，你们是怎么决定团队优先事项的？

All of the executive assistants graduate from Princeton, insanely high bar, and I was asking this woman who managed the EA team, like, how do you decide what to prioritize your team on?

她说：如果我的团队花一天时间能为我的老板节省一分钟，那我们的时间就花得值。

And she's like, if my team can spend one day saving my principal one minute, it's well worth our time.

我当时就想：这境界太高了。这确实是我向往的目标，但你知道，这是亿万富翁的预算。

And I'm like, that is so next level and definitely, like, that's something I would love to aspire to, but it's just, you know, the the billionaire budget.

是啊。

Yeah.

挺有意思的。

It's pretty funny.

另外关于优先级的问题，比如我们在招聘助理时，有人说希望他们参加你所有的会议吗？

Also, in terms of prioritization, like, you know, we're hiring, you know, assistants here, and someone's saying, oh, you know, do you want them to be in all meetings with you?

嗯哼。

And Mhmm.

我当时想，如果他们跟我一起开会，那他们就没法工作了。

I was like, well, if they're in meetings with me, then they're not working.

比如，我

Like, I

我希望他们能... 是啊。

I want them to be, like Yeah.

你知道的，要找到方法给我提供杠杆效应，减轻我的负担。

You know, finding ways to give me leverage and take things off my plate.

我是说，我们在Athena的一个愿景就是拥有能倾听你、与你协作的数字助理，它们连接着你的Zoom、邮箱和日历，可以从这些数字痕迹中挖掘出助理应该处理的事项。

I mean, is one of our visions at Athena is that you can have digital assistants that listen to you and work with you and are connected to your Zoom and your inbox and your calendar and can be mining all of that digital exhaust for things your assistant should work on.

所以，如果你的助理真要完成工作，他们不可能参加所有会议。

And so, I mean, your assistant can't possibly sit in every meeting if they're gonna do anything.

但如果数字化的机器助手能进行监控并提取信息，那将是一个非常酷的组合。

But if the digital, the machine assistants are surveying and pulling things out, that's a pretty cool combination.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得观察人们如何构建自己的体系很有意思，比如马克和本将所有事务都通过Acing AZ处理，完全依赖这个平台，当然他们也有其他知识或慈善方面的兴趣，但主要还是以整合为主。

I think it's interesting to look at how people build out their like, for example, you know, Mark and Ben funnel everything through acing a z and are all in on acing a z and, of course, have, you know, other intellectual or philanthropic interests, but mostly it's, like, consolidate.

而像彼得·蒂尔这样的人则更倾向于分散化，比如他既有Founders Fund，还有其他多个基金和公司，各种既相互协作又保持独立的项目。

Whereas someone like Peter Thiel has this he sort of fragments it a bit more, you know, like, you know, Founders Fund, but then other several other, you know, Mithril several other funds, other company, all sorts of, like, initiatives that are, you know, somewhat collaborative but independent.

对。

Yeah.

他虽居于顶层，但似乎也给予他们自主权——他并不担任这些实体的CEO。

And he sits on top, but also it seems like he lets them you know, he's not like CEO of of of them.

而且他拥有这个长期合作的人才网络。嗯。

And he's got this sort of talent, you know, network that he's worked with for a long time Mhmm.

这种模式，几乎就像回旋镖一样在...对。

That kind of, like, you know, goes in almost boomerangs across the Yeah.

整个宇宙中穿梭。

The universe.

朗斯代尔给人的感觉是他更亲力亲为，他掌控着ABC宇宙，但他的其他项目又很快会制度化，无论是智库还是...对。

Lonsdale feels like he's more hands he's got the ABC universe, but then his his other initiative, he's, like, quick to institutionalize something, whether it's like a think tank or, like Yeah.

你知道，彼得·蒂尔设立蒂尔奖学金而朗斯代尔创建大学之类的事绝非巧合。

You know, it it's no coincidence that, you Peter Thiel would do the sort of Thiel fellowship and Lonsdale would create a university or something.

蒂尔总是很早就涉足各种领域。

Thiel is almost, like, early to stuff.

他会为事物创建一种格式模板。

He creates a format for something, a template.

你知道，他做了很多基础工作，比如领域建设的知识架构，或是涉足争议性领域——无论是长寿研究、特许城市还是高等教育。

You know, he does the hard work of sort of, you know, field building intellect or, like, you know, doing something that's in a controversial space where it's longevity or charter cities or, you know, higher education.

然后像朗斯代尔这样的人会在某种程度上将其制度化。

And then, you know, people like Lonsdale institutionalize it to to some degree.

然后，是的，埃隆，你知道，也有人形容他就像一支特种部队。嗯哼。

And then, yeah, Elon, you know, it's been described also has this like SWAT team Mhmm.

你知道，这些人帮助他在公司之间穿梭，他总能招募到世界级人才来领导这些项目。

You know, of of people that help him from from company to company, and he's just able to recruit, you know, world class people to to lead these efforts.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这就像是在问，什么才是正确的组织结构？

I think it comes it's like, what's the right org structure?

实际上并没有所谓正确的组织结构。

There's actually no right org structure.

而是什么样的组织结构适合你作为创始人。

It's what's the right org structure for you as a founder.

没错。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，马克·安德森和本·霍洛维茨都是公司建设者，所以他们像经营公司一样构建自己的影响力。

And, you know, Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz are company builders, and so they're building their leverage like a company.

a16z是一家公司

The a sixteen z is a company.

不是说彼得·蒂尔不是企业家，但他现在更像一个哲学家

Not that Peter Thiel is not an entrepreneur, but he's more of a philosopher today.

所以他的体系也更像一个哲学家

And so his system is more like a philosopher.

这些都是些天马行空的想法

It's all these kind of wild and crazy ideas.

我觉得黄仁勋有46个直接下属之类的

And so I think, you know, Jensen Huang has, like, 46 direct reports or something Yeah.

这简直太疯狂了

Which is absolutely insane.

是啊

Yeah.

但这种方式对他有效

But it works for him.

所以我认为你只需要清楚自己的风格是什么。

And so I think you just have to know what your style is Yeah.

然后你就能为自己打造它。

And then you build it for you.

完全正确。

Totally.

像萨姆·阿尔曼这样的人就是个交易撮合者和资金筹集者，嗯。

And someone like, you know, Sam Allman is like a deal maker and a fundraiser Mhmm.

同时也是个人才发掘者，你知道的。

And a talent identifier, you know.

所以他能够做到，我记得他在YC时，曾和我一个朋友讨论过这个全民基本收入公司的构想。

And so he's able to like, I remember he was at YC, he and was talking to my one of my friends about sort of this universal basic income company.

我朋友最终没做这个项目，但我觉得，哦，这挺有意思的。

My friend didn't end up doing it, but I was like, oh, that's interesting.

他为什么要做这个呢？

Why is why is he even doing that?

他专注于YC。

He's, like, focused on YC.

而且他特别擅长发现好点子。

And he's like, he he has a knack for for good ideas.

他特别擅长——而且这个人22岁。

He has a knack for and this person was, 22.

他特别擅长识别高潜力人才，还有超强的融资能力。

He has a knack for, you know, high slope talent, and he has a superpower around raising money.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，我觉得新创业者，至少我作为新创业者时在想：好吧。

I mean, one of the things that I think new founders, or at least me as a new founder, was like, okay.

我的短板是什么？如何提升？

What are my weaknesses and how do I get better at them?

但第二次创业时就会想：别管什么短板不短板了。

But then a second time founder is like, forget about my weaknesses.

我干脆连试都不试了。

I'm just not even gonna try.

是啊。

Yeah.

我只要专注于发挥自己的长处，然后雇佣其他人来做我不擅长的事，这样效率要高得多。

I'm just gonna be really good at my strengths, and I'm gonna hire other people to do all the things I'm not good at, and that is way more effective.

没错。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

过去确实存在这种质疑的声音，认为你实际上无法...这种观点至今仍然存在。

The there used to be this sort of skepticism of like, hey, you can't really and this still is actually.

你其实无法真正孵化公司。

You can't really incubate company.

就像...CEO必须是联合创始人，必须亲自推动公司发展。你对这类争论持什么立场？

Like, the the CEO has to be the co founder, they have to drive it to where where do you stand on on kind of that that debate?

我认为最大的公司都不是孵化出来的，因为最大的公司都有一个从一开始就偏执专注的创始人，并且这种专注持续了五十年。

I think the biggest companies aren't incubated because the biggest companies have a founder who is monomaniacal from the beginning and compounds it for fifty years.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

那可不是孵化。

And that's not incubation.

孵化更像是...让我想想...

Incubation is kind of let me Yeah.

尝试各种可能性。

Try a bunch of things.

而不是这种偏执的权力法则式承诺。

It's not this monomaniacal power law commitment.

所以如果你想打造一个万亿级的企业，我认为这不是正确的方法。

So if you're just trying to build a trillion dollar business, I think that's not the way to do it.

是的

Yeah.

但你看，我们有个共同朋友喜欢保持匿名，他孵化了很多公司，每年创办四家企业。

But look, if you like you know, we have a mutual friend who likes to remain anonymous, who incubates lots of companies, and he launches four companies a year.

他热爱这样做，而且会因此赚大钱，这就是他的风格。

And he loves doing it, and he's gonna make a ton of money doing it, and that's just his style.

他可能不会有万亿级的企业，但会有50家价值1亿美元的公司，这依然非常了不起。

He's not gonna probably have trillion dollar businesses, but he's gonna have 50, you know, $100,000,000 businesses, which is still incredible.

对

Right.

是的

Yeah.

我认为一个看涨的观点更像是育种过程，就像山姆·奥特曼在某种意义上孵化了OpenAI，而这并非他当时的主要工作。

I think one bull case is more of it's like a breeding like, you know, Sam Altman in some sense incubated OpenAI and that it wasn't the main thing he was working on.

但当他意识到这可能是个巨大机遇时，就全力以赴投入其中

But then once he identified that it could be, you know, this massive opportunity, then then went all in all

全身心投入其中。

in with it.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这更像是一个风险投资组合。

I mean, it's more like a venture portfolio.

而且，你知道，彼得·蒂尔可能做过很多我们甚至不记得的事情，就像海洋研究之类的，因为它们都消失在以太中，而成功的事物会不断积累。

And, you know, there's probably a bunch of stuff Peter Thiel has done that we don't even remember because like, sea studying and things like that because they just disappear into the ether and then things that work compound.

所以，是的，如果你有资源启动10个新项目，然后每年全力投入其中最有潜力的那个

And so, yeah, I mean, if you have the resources to launch 10 new things and then just double down on the one thing that's big every year Yeah.

这是一种很酷的策略。

That's a cool cool approach.

没错。

Right.

十年前，马克·安德森写过一篇关于生产力的博客文章。

A decade ago, Marc Andreessen wrote this blog post on productivity.

是啊

Yeah.

他们当时问他，你是怎么考虑会议安排这类事情的

And they were asking him, how do you think about, you know, meetings, scheduling, whatever.

他说，你知道吗？

And he said, you know what?

我尽量不提前安排事情，因为我不知道下周自己状态如何

I try not to schedule things in advance because I don't know how I'll feel, you know, next week.

我更倾向于顺应状态做事

And I wanna kinda wanna do things, like, in flow.

所以当有人想约我时间时，我通常会说要么现在就打电话，要么下周再联系

And so when, you know, people are trying to get my time, what I typically say is, like, call me right now or feel free to check-in Mhmm.

到时候看我状态如何

Next week and we'll see how I feel.

对

Yeah.

这确实更符合心流状态。

And it kind of is like better aligned with sort of the flow state.

我是说，这才是终极自由。

I mean, that's the ultimate flex.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像，如果你能做到这样，那绝对是终极境界。没错。

It's like, if if you can pull that off, that is definitely the ultimate way to Yeah.

因为你只需专注想做的事，世界为你敞开，随叫随到。

Because you just work on whatever you want, world opens up to you, you call.

对。

Right.

显然这对普通新人很难实现，但若能到达那个境界，就是理想状态。

Obviously, it's hard for most new mortals to pull off, but, if you can get to that level, that is the dream.

没错。

Right.

所以，对于某些会议，当人们冷不防地联系我时，我总是预期再过几天我会比现在更忙之类的，会有更多事。而现在嘛，确实有空。

So, I was, for certain meetings that people are cold reaching out or whatever, was kind of try It's like I always anticipate that in a few more days, I'll be busier than I am or something, I'll have Whereas, right now, yeah, got time.

给我打电话吧。

Give me a call.

但我稍微尝试过那种方式。

But so, I I tried that a little bit.

后来马克做了个后续访谈，有人问起他关于舒拉姆那件事。

And then, Mark did a follow-up interview where someone asked him about that, Shuram.

他就说，'哦，你知道的，那方法行不通'。

And he's like, oh, you know, that didn't work.

就像'我试过了，但确实没用'。

Like, I I I tried, but it didn't work.

现在我的日程已经排满了，

Now, I'm just scheduled and

完全就是连轴转

Just back to back

整天如此。

all day long.

我当时就想，真是见鬼了。

I was like, goddamn it.

他当时就是这么做的。

He was doing that.

不过他也确实...

And it's but he's yeah.

他还精通多任务处理。

He's also mastered multitasking.

我是说，我认为人们可以从马克和其他人身上学到的一点就是偶尔要质疑常规做法。

I mean, I think people just the thing I think you can learn from Mark and other people is just challenge the defaults occasionally.

如果你整天都在连轴转开会，不妨试试其他系统，看看是否有效。

And if you're in back to back meetings all the time, try this other system and see see if it works.

我觉得大多数人只是随波逐流。

I think most people just go with the flow.