374 | 从自我批判到自信的转变 特邀嘉宾：Nicole Zabel、Jenny Johnson 和 Edyie Seibert

我很快意识到，那种严苛的自我评判方式，就像是我内心一个不讲道理的声音，不断告诉我还需要做得更好。

I quickly realized that the harsh way that I was judging myself was kind of this unreasonable person inside of me saying that I still needed to be doing better.

抓住机会。勇敢展现自己，接受不适感，而不是费尽心思去逃避不适。

Take a chance. Put yourself out there and accept feeling uncomfortable rather than working so hard to not feel uncomfortable.

你会跌倒的。别让这阻止你前进。只需平息那些消极的自我对话。我最喜欢课上的一句话：问问自己，自信的我会怎么做？

You're gonna stumble. Don't let that stop you. Just quiet that negative self talk. And my favorite phrase from the class, just ask yourself, what would confident me do?

欢迎来到《勇敢发声的艺术》，这是一档帮助职业女性发掘内在无限潜能的播客。我是主持人杰西卡·古兹克，我的使命是帮你找到体内那股火花——它能以超乎想象的方式改变你的职业生涯。非常高兴你的加入。现在，节目正式开始。欢迎收听本播客。

Welcome to the art of speaking up, a podcast that helps professional women access the limitless potential that lies within them. I'm your host, Jessica Guzik, and my mission is to help you find that spark inside you that has the power to transform your career in ways you may not have thought possible. I'm so excited that you're here. And now, onto the show. Welcome to the podcast.

从本集开场片段你可能已经听出，今天是一期访谈节目。我特别期待你们听到这段对话，因为它将重燃你对成长与改变能力的信念。当我们努力更多发声、在场合中更自信时，难免会遇到挫折和障碍。有时这些障碍会让你觉得自己可能永远停滞不前，甚至怀疑改变对你是否真的可能。而接下来这段对话最让我喜爱的是，其中蕴含的诸多智慧和建议会让你明白：只要愿意付出努力，迈出小步，循序渐进，你绝对可以实现成长——不仅是作为领导者的声音与沟通风格，更是内在的自信。今天，我将与三位参与过我团体课程《勇敢发声学院》的女性展开对话。

As you can probably tell by the opening clips of this episode, Today's episode is an interview episode, and I am so excited for you to hear this conversation because it is going to help you reignite your belief in your ability to grow and change. When we are working on speaking up more and having more confidence in the room, we will inevitably encounter struggles and obstacles. And sometimes those obstacles can make you feel like you might be permanently stuck, and they can make you wonder if change is actually possible for you. And one of my favorite things about the conversation that you are about to hear is that there are so many pieces of wisdom and advice that will help you see that if you are willing to do the work, take small steps, and put one foot in front of the other, you can absolutely achieve growth not only in your voice and your communication style as a leader, but also in how confident you feel internally. Today, I am chatting with three women who I worked with inside of my group program, the art of speaking up academy.

如果你是初次收听、刚知道这个学院，这是我的核心课程，旨在帮助学员建立深厚的内心自信，同时提升作为领导者的发声与沟通技巧。今天你们将听到我们探讨：如何在困境中建立自信；如何摆脱那些看似有益却阻碍你发声的隐蔽习惯；如何冲破妨碍自信建立的错误信念；如何利用战略性小步骤的力量可持续地培养自信；以及释放压力与完美主义如何加速自信成长。今天你将认识三位女性：首先是妮可，一位充满激情、以人为本的全球营销高管，拥有十五年以上管理规模超1亿美元品牌组合的经验。

If you're newer here and it's your first time hearing about the academy, this is my main program where I support my clients in building deep internal confidence and also in elevating their voice and communication skills as a leader. Today, you are going to hear us talk about how to build confidence even if you're feeling stuck, how to get past the sneaky habits that feel helpful but can hold you back from speaking up in the room, how to push past the false beliefs that can get in the way of building confidence, how to leverage the power of small strategic steps to grow your confidence in a way that is sustainable, and how releasing pressure and perfectionism can help your confidence grow more quickly. Today, you are going to meet three women. First, you'll meet Nicole. Nicole is an inspired and people centered global marketing executive with over fifteen years scaling brand portfolios that are a $100,000,000 and plus in size.

你们还将认识珍妮。作为非营利协会的战略数据领导者，她专长于数据战略和企业解决方案，利用数据力量推动运营效率、组织协同和实质影响。最后是伊迪，一位资深的消费品销售战略家，拥有超过二十二年从业经验。

You're also gonna meet Jenny. Jenny is a strategic data leader for nonprofit associations. She specializes in data strategy and enterprise solutions that leverage the power of data to drive operational efficiency, organizational alignment, and meaningful impact. And you're also going to meet Edie. Edie is a seasoned CPG sales strategist with over twenty two years of experience.

她专注于为巧克力与饼干品牌制定零售及餐饮服务渠道的批发策略。首先你将听到妮可的分享，她会深入探讨‘在转型过程中你最自豪的是哪一部分’这个问题。让我们认识一下妮可。

She specializes in wholesale strategy for chocolate and cookie brands across retail and food service channels. The first woman you're going to hear from is Nicole, and you will hear her dive into the question of what element of your transformation do you feel most proud of. Let's meet Nicole.

对我来说，最自豪的是我思维模式的转变。我深信一切改变都始于思维，你必须先努力调整成长自己的心态，那些工具方法才能真正发挥作用。我觉得我们的文化中很少讨论商业中思维方式的重要性，尤其对女性而言。这已成为我个人致力于向团队和身边人传递的理念。我共事的女性都才华横溢，但她们的自我认知远低于实际能力。

For me, what I feel most proud of are my shifts in mindset that I've been able to make. I feel really strongly that it does all start there, and you really have to work to grow and adjust your mindset first before any of the tools can take impact. I don't think we culturally talk enough about how mindset is important in business, and I think particularly for women. And I think this is something that I've become personally dedicated to imparting to my team and people that I know. I work with so many talented women, and they're all capable of far more than they even believe.

我认为这种思维转变恰恰是最关键的部分。

And I think this mindset piece is so critical to that.

确实。观察他人的这种状态很有趣，因为这能帮助你理解自身经历。我很好奇，当你看到那些才华横溢却严重低估自己的女性时，这种观察是否反过来影响了你的工作？

Yes. That's so interesting to observe it in other people because I think that that naturally helps you understand your own experience. So I'm just curious, like, as you observe it in others, like, you see, wow. This person is so talented, and she's severely underestimating herself. Has that impacted your own work?

当然有影响。看到别人身上的这些行为表现，你会不自觉地反思：我自己是不是也在这样对待自己？这种现象其实适用于很多领域，比如育儿——我们总是对自己过于严苛。关键在于识别这种行为并扭转它，就像...

It absolutely does. You see the behaviors playing out in someone else, and then, you know, you kind of turn that inward of, like, how am I doing this to myself too? And I think it's something that can apply to so many areas. I think, you know, parenting, like, we we just see each other and we're so hard on ourselves. And I think, like, just being able to recognize that behavior and and call it out and really kind of turn the tables of, like, okay.

我的内心独白可能在否定自己，但如果是朋友处在同样处境，我会怎么劝慰她？这种视角转换非常有用。我希望每个人都能学会这个方法，这也是我对共事伙伴的期许——这种思维转变能带来巨大改变，给自己多一些宽容真的很有帮助。

My inner dialogue is maybe telling me one thing, but what would I say if I were a friend instead? And I think being able to turn that table is very useful. And so that's something that I hope everyone can learn, and and that's my wish for the people that I'm working with of just, like it's such a shift, and it's so helpful to really just, like, give yourself that grace.

说得太好了。非常感谢你的分享，妮可。接下来有请珍妮。珍妮，你最自豪的自我成长与蜕变是什么？

Yes. So powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that, Nicole. And we'll go to Jenny next. Jenny, what growth and evolution within yourself are you most proud of?

对我来说也是心态的转变，就像妮可说的，更具体地说，就是不再等待自己在某件事上做到完美，而是适应不适感，接受不适感。刚开始时，这对我来说是个大障碍，就是不愿意感到不适。即使我心里明白，你知道，在这种情况下没有理由感到不适。有时候几乎是生理上的不适。所以就是改变心态，从心理层面去思考，而不是原地打转，试图通过学习、阅读、研究来最终获得自信。

Mine would also be my mindset shift, like Nicole said, more specifically just stopping waiting on being perfect at something and being comfortable with being uncomfortable or being okay, accepting being uncomfortable. That was a big hurdle for me in the beginning was just not wanting to be uncomfortable. Even if in my mind, said, you know, like, there's no reason to be uncomfortable in this situation. Like, almost sometimes physically, I just would be uncomfortable. So just changing my mindset and thinking through the psychology of it versus spinning my wheels, trying to study, you know, learn, read, research on how to eventually become confident.

把时间和精力集中在心态上，解决那些永远不会消失的问题，这样利用时间要好得多，对吧？因为你就是你。这是另一个重要的部分。真正理解这些感觉不会消失。你知道，当你看到那些非常外向、善于演讲的人时，你可能以为他们从来没有这些感觉，但重点不在于永远不会有这些感觉，而在于能够接受它们。

Such a better use of time to focus that time and energy on your mindset and addressing the things that are never gonna go away, right, because you are who you are. That was another big piece. Just really understanding those feelings don't go away. You know, you think maybe when you see other people who are super extroverted and great speakers that they don't ever get the feelings, but it's not about never getting the feelings. It's about being okay with them.

是的。有时候我们的头脑很喜欢说，我只要再学一个技巧，或者再找到一条信息，就能解锁一切。听起来对你来说，是意识到也许该深入挖掘了。

Yes. And sometimes our minds really like to say, I can just learn this next tip or if I can just, like, find this next piece of information, that will be the unlock. And it sounds like for you, it was realizing maybe it's time to go deeper.

这对我意义重大。我以前总是过度准备，为了让自己感觉准备好了，但现在我相信我的观点本身就是有价值的。如果不是，那也没关系。

That was huge for me. I always used to overprepare to feel ready, but now I trust that my perspective is valuable as it is. And if it's not, that's okay.

是的，对吧？想要更多信息的倾向并没有错。我想我们都是雄心勃勃、有智慧的女性。我们热爱学习。

Yes. Right? And there's nothing wrong with that tendency to want more information. I think we are all ambitious, intellectual women. We love to learn.

所以我觉得这可能是我们自然的方向，但听到你说情感部分和心态部分确实是让你看到改变的地方，这让我很高兴。

And so I think it can be a natural direction for us to go in, but it makes me happy to hear that, like, for you, the emotional piece was really the emotional piece and the mindset piece was really where you saw change.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah. For sure.

好的。那你呢，艾迪？当你回顾自己的成长与蜕变时，最让你感到自豪的是什么？

Alright. How about you, Edie? What do you feel most proud of when you reflect on your growth and evolution?

就是能够静下心来审视现实，找到最佳方式应对内心的批判声音，真正支持自己，对自己保持慈悲，允许自己犯错而不因此苛责自己，不会轻易崩溃。我们都会犯错，永远不可能完美，追求完美本身也没有意义。重要的是善用你现有的能力和资源，真正看清它们。所以对我来说，学会处理消极的自我对话并将其归位是巨大的突破。

Just being able to sit down and take a look at the reality and how best to handle that inner critic and how best to really have my back and self compassion for myself and allow myself to make mistakes and not walk away just beating myself up for it and not being able to easily rebound. We all make mistakes. We're never gonna be perfect, and it's not even worth trying to be perfect. It's worth working with what you have and your abilities and being able to really see them. And so taking the negative self talk and putting it in its place was huge for me.

如果有听众在想'内心批判者'这个概念，我大概知道是什么意思，但不确定理解是否准确。你如何定义这个'内心批判者'？或者说你自己是怎么理解它的？

If someone's listening and thinking inner critic, I think I know what that is, but I'm not totally sure I know what that is. What is the inner critic or at least how you define it for yourself?

我总想象成肩头的小恶魔。就是那个在你耳边低语说你做不到的声音，说你不配在场，房间里每个人都比你厉害聪明，只要你开口他们就会看穿你其实一无所知。

I always think of the little devil on your shoulder. It's that little whisper inside your ear telling you that you can't do it. You're not up for this. Everybody in the room is higher level, and they're much smarter. And if you say anything, they're just gonna realize that you don't know anything.

你永远无法彻底摆脱它，但可以控制它。在'勇敢发声学院'的学习过程中，这一点对我帮助很大。

And you can't ever really get rid of it, but you can control it. And that's really helped me in learning that throughout the art of speaking up academy.

关于追求完美这点，你觉得这是你最初就试图做到的吗？比如'让我试着做到尽善尽美'这种心态？

In terms of trying to be perfect, do you feel like that was something that you initially were trying to do? Like, let me just try to get it perfect.

噢，绝对是。我以前总会苛责自己，因为事情很少能完全做对。很多时候离开某个场合后，那个内心批判者就会折磨我。所以真正重要的是承认它的存在，同时明白它永远不会消失，只需要把它放在合适的位置——这个认知对我意义重大。

Oh, absolutely. And I would beat myself up because you rarely get anything just right. There were a lot of times where I would walk away, and that inner critic would just beat me up. And so really acknowledging it, but acknowledging the fact that it's never going to go away. It just needs to be put in its place was huge for me.

是的。我非常喜欢大家分享的所有内容。这里出现了一个主题，那就是改变我们的目标，将高层次目标从‘我要做到完美’、‘我要做对’转变为‘我要尝试更好地驾驭那些迫使我感觉必须做对的想法和情绪’。这种转变既能让人感到真正的自由，也能帮助我们减少自我意识，真正支持你们占据自己的空间。所以我很高兴看到这个主题浮现出来。

Yes. I love everything y'all are sharing. There's a theme coming up of changing what our goal is, changing our high level goal from let me get this perfect and let me get this right to let me try to better navigate the thoughts and feelings that are pressuring me to feel like I need to get it right. And that can be both really freeing, and it can help us feel less self conscious and really support you all in taking up space. So I love hearing that theme emerge.

我们将进入下一个问题。Nicole，我们回到你这里。在我们的工作中，是否有任何你最初持有的信念，通过我们的对话和工作，你开始意识到它们并不真实？

We'll go into the next question. We'll go back to you, Nicole. So in our work, were there any beliefs that you initially had that through the conversations and work that we did, you started to realize weren't true?

对我来说，很容易假设每个人都拥有坚如磐石的心态或自信，但事实并非如此。我认为每个人都会面临自己不同的挑战。所以对我来说，这种转变就是理解到心态的修炼是如此重要。而且我认为，知道每个人在这方面都有可以改进的地方，都有他们正在处理的一系列误解。

For me, it's easy to assume that everyone has a rock solid mindset or confidence, and it's really just not the case. I think everyone faces their own different struggles. And so I think that shift for me was just understanding that working on mindset is so important. And I think just knowing that everyone has work that they can do in that area and has, you know, a set of misconceptions that they're dealing with.

是的。我们很容易假设每个人都感觉良好，对自己有美好的想法，因为我们看不到他们的想法，对吧？所以这需要我们发挥很多想象力，放慢脚步，也许才能考虑到我们周围的人也有类似的经历。而在工作场所，没有人会真的愿意暴露这一点或对此保持开放态度，因为有一种压力要求我们投射某种形象。

Yes. It's extremely easy for us to assume that everyone feels amazing and is having amazing thoughts about themselves because we don't see their thoughts. Right? So it requires a lot of imagination and slowing down to maybe consider that the people around us are having similar experiences. And then in a workplace, no one's gonna really want to out that or be open about that because there's pressure to project a certain image.

好的。接下来我们请Jenny回答。你是否对自信或自己有任何错误的信念，开始质疑并意识到它们是不真实的？

Okay. We'll go to you next, Jenny. Did you have any false beliefs either about confidence or about yourself that you started to question and realized were untrue?

我一直将自信与外向性格联系在一起，而我骨子里是个内向的人。所以那种错误的信念就是，你要么拥有自信，要么没有，而且只有外向的人才能拥有。所以意识到这一点完全不真实，对我帮助极大。

I've always associated confidence with being an extrovert, and I am an introvert to the core. So it was just kind of that false belief of you either have it or you don't, you know, and it's only possible for extroverts. So realizing that that is by far not true at all was super helpful.

是的，是的。作为一个同样内向的人，我完全同意，这让我感到高兴。Edie，你呢？你是否对自信或自己有任何信念，后来发现它们并不真实？

Yes. Yes. As a fellow introvert, I fully agree, and that makes me happy. And how about you, Edie? Did you have any beliefs about confidence or about yourself that you realized weren't true?

嗯，我的情况有点复杂。我曾以为自信是天生的，而我不属于这类人。但后来发现，其实只需要投入努力去专注学习如何变得更自信，这对我产生了巨大改变。这是我每天都要练习的功课，但我在进步，这意义非凡。

Well, mine's kind of a combo. I believed that people just were naturally confident, and I believed I was not one of those people. So being able to come in and realize that it's just putting in the work to really focus and learn how to become more confident made such a difference for me. And it's a daily thing that I work on, but I'm making progress. And that has been huge.

是啊，天哪！这些回答让我好开心。我们太容易和别人比较，总臆想自己落后他人很多，这太荒谬了。这些想法根本不真实，却束缚着我们。

Yes. Oh my gosh. These answers are making me happy. It's just it's so easy for us to compare ourselves to other people, to make assumptions that we're so far behind to other people, and it's just wild. It's like these things aren't even true, and they're holding us back.

这些想法毫无现实依据，全是我们自己的想象。当我们真正看清这点时，就会产生巨大力量。然后我们会开始思考：还有哪些不真实的想象在阻碍我前进？这太棒了。

And they're not based on anything real. They're based on our own imagination. So it can be so powerful when we start to really see that. And then we start to think, what else am I imagining that's not true that's holding me back and getting in my way? So love that.

下一个问题是关于顿悟时刻。请各位分享在我们相处过程中，你们真正领悟到的某个重要瞬间。妮可，从你开始吧——哪个顿悟时刻让你觉得特别有用？

The next question is around light bulb moments. So I'll have you each share something that really clicked for you and a light bulb moment that you had based on our time together. So we'll start with you, Nicole. What was one light bulb moment or something that clicked for you that felt useful?

对我来说，是意识到自己比想象中更追求完美。我从未这样定位过自己，但很快发现，我对自己苛刻评判时，内心就像有个不讲理的声音在说'你还能做得更好'。即使表现不错，我脑子里仍觉得可以更好。这绝对是顿悟时刻，因为我没意识到自己施加了过度的压力——我们永远不会这样评判别人，却对自己毫不留情。

For me, it was just the idea of I'm much more of a perfectionist than I ever thought. I never really identified myself in that way, but I quickly realized that the harsh way that I was judging myself was kind of this unreasonable person inside of me saying that I still needed to be doing better. It could be a good performance, and there was still, like, that idea in my head that it could have been better. And so that was definitely a light bulb moment for me because I didn't realize that I was really, like, putting this serious undue pressure on myself. And we would never judge someone else in this way, but we absolutely do it to ourselves.

我认为摆脱这种状态的第一步，是真正觉察到它何时发生。这对我很关键。虽然我不完全认同'完美主义者'的标签，但当我这样对待自己时，确实会造成同样的伤害。

And I think the first step out of that is really, like, recognizing when it's happening. So I think that was a big one for me. You know, I don't really identify with, like, the description of a perfectionist, but I think definitely moments where I'm certainly doing that to myself, the same sort of damage.

珍妮，你呢？你有什么领悟或顿悟时刻吗？当我...

How about you, Jenny? What is a realization or a light bulb moment that you had? When I

刚开始学院生活时，我个人的一个担忧就是觉得自己不够善于表达，总想着必须说出完美的话。实际上，我最喜欢的时刻之一很早就出现了。我记得当时写了下来，现在还能看到那张纸上的字迹：重点不在于学会所有正确的言辞。

started the academy, one of my personal concerns was that I'm just not articulate enough, and I have to say the perfect things. And so one of my favorite moments was pretty early on, actually. And I remember writing down. I can still see it on the paper. I wrote down, it's not about learning all the right words.

而是敢于说出所有错误的话并坦然接受。这句话太真实了。

It's saying all the wrong words and being okay with it. And it's so true.

哦，说得太好了。

Oh, that's so good.

这是我说的吗？这话从哪来的？

Did I say that? Where did that come from?

不，是我写的。根据...我记不清了，可能是我们在沼泽地训练时想到的，就随手记下来给自己看。

No. I did. I just wrote it down for myself based on I can't remember. I think we were on swamp.

天啊，这简直是金句！对，我听到了，当时就觉得这话真棒。

Oh my gosh. That is gold. Yeah. I heard that. I was like, that sounds good.

我不记得我说过这个。听起来确实像...完全不记得说过。这话哪来的？太有才了，绝妙。

I don't think I said that. That does like, I don't remember saying that. Where did that come from? That is genius. So good.

好的。谢谢你分享这些，珍妮。你呢，艾迪？你有没有什么顿悟或深刻体会的时刻？

Okay. Thanks for sharing that, Jenny. How about you, Edie? Were there any light bulb moments or realizations that you had?

你知道，当我第一次走进教室，遇见妮可和珍妮时，第一印象让我觉得，天哪。这两位女性事业有成，人生精彩，而我完全达不到她们的水平，她们其实根本不必来上这门课。但有时我在课堂上发言，分享一些个人感受时，妮可和珍妮都会回应说，是的。

You know, when I first came into class and and I met Nicole and met Jenny and those first impressions, I'm just like, oh my goodness. These are both fabulous women that are in great careers, and they've done so well for themselves. And I am just not on their level, and this is something that they really don't have to be at this class. But there were times when I would speak in class and just talk about somewhat, you know, personal kind of admissions as far as how I was feeling at different times. And Nicole and Jenny would both say, yes.

我也有同感。听到这些我十分钦佩却总在消极比较的女性有着相同感受，让我好受多了——原来我并不孤单，事实上我们很多人都有完全相同的感受，都充满不确定，都需要培养自信的能力。

I'm feeling the same way. And just to hear that these women that I had a lot of admiration for and was comparing myself to negatively just felt the same way. It it made me feel so much better in the fact that I'm not alone, and the reality is that a lot of us feel exactly the same way and very unsure and need that ability to grow in in their confidence.

是啊。意识到自己并不孤单能如此深刻地改变内心感受，这真的很奇妙。

Yeah. It's wild how much knowing that we're not alone can change how we feel internally. It's quite remarkable.

我想补充，那对我们所有人都是重大的顿悟时刻。就像听播客时你会觉得'她说的就是我'，当同学们分享时也是同样的感觉。

I'll just add. I think that was a huge light bulb moment for all of us. It was just like listening to the podcast where you're like, she's talking to me. That's me. Same thing when cohort members shared.

你知道，我们都能产生强烈共鸣。

You know, we could all really relate to it.

百分之百同意。这就是群体力量——你能真切看到他人的经历，窥见别人脑海中的想法。好，下一项是关于胜利的。

A 100%. And that's the power of being in a group as well is you really get to see other people's experiences. You get to see what's happening inside other people's minds. Okay. So the next one is on win.

那么我们从你开始吧，妮可。最近有没有某个时刻，哪怕是很小的瞬间，让你真切意识到‘啊，这个时刻正展现着我的成长’？

So we will start with you again, Nicole. Has there been a recent moment, even if it's a small moment, where you really realize like, oh, this moment is showing me that I've grown?

我最大的进步就是比过去更懂得自我肯定。这听起来不算惊天动地，但因此我的内心获得了更好的平衡。我意识到那些多余的杂音大多是自己制造的，而屏蔽这些杂音极大地提升了我的专注力和效率。可以说这是对我日常生活影响最大的改变——能够保持专注，过滤掉那些本不该存在的干扰。

My biggest win is just giving myself that credit more so than I used to. It doesn't sound monumental, but I think my inner peace is in a better balance because of it. And so I've learned that when there is that extra noise, it was mostly me creating that extra noise. And tuning that out has done so much for just my focus and my efficiency. And so I would say that is the biggest win that impacts me on a day to day basis, just being able to, like, stay focused and, like, tune out that extra noise that doesn't need to be there.

那些心理杂音确实很耗神。自我提升的乐趣在于我们能重获能量，有时还能赢回时间和专注力，这种感觉很棒。接下来请艾迪分享。我很好奇你的答案会是什么。最近有什么让你意识到自己成长的时刻吗？

That mental noise is exhausting. I think one of the fun things about working on ourselves is we regain energy, and sometimes we regain time and focus, and that can feel really good. We'll go to Edie next on this one. So I'm curious what yours will be, Edie. But, yeah, what's a recent moment where you realized you had grown?

主要体现在我参加会议时的思维方式和准备过程。现在完全不同了——以前内心总有个批评的声音，现在虽然它还在，但我能把它推到一边，告诉自己‘我能行’。我带着必要的知识走进会议室，敢于发声、占据空间，更像个领导者，并为自己的有效贡献感到自豪。

It's really when I'm going into meetings and my thought process and just how I prepare and get ready. It's so different. I mean, before it was a lot of the inner critic, and the inner critic's still there, but I can push the inner critic to the side and go in just reminding myself, I've got this. I have the knowledge that I need walking into it, and I can speak up and take up space and be a much more of a leader and be proud of the fact that I can contribute well.

说得太好了。这些分享真让人振奋。妮可，如果有人正挣扎着不相信改变可能（这种状态我们都经历过），特别是那些认为自己困在原地、改变无望的人，你最希望他们听到什么？

I love that. These are so fun to hear. We'll start with you, Nicole. If someone is struggling to believe that change is possible for them, which I think is a place that we have all been, and we know what that feeling is. But if someone is thinking that they're stuck, that change won't be an option for them, what would you most want that person to hear?

认为成长或改变不可能，这本身就是问题的一部分。我会鼓励他们彻底扭转这个想法——这恰恰是你该出发的起点。无论是个人还是职业成长，都需要小步前进和切实可行的工具。

Thinking that growth or change is not possible is kind of part of the problem. So I I think I would encourage them to just turn that on its head. Right? And that's your first place you start. And you need small steps, and you need actionable tools for any sort of personal professional growth.

改变会以你独有的方式发生，但你必须坚定决心去实现它。所以我认为最关键的就是这份笃定。

And it will happen in your own way, but you just have to be dedicated that you are going to make it happen. So I think it's really just that dedication part.

我很喜欢这个观点。我从未想过这本身就是问题的一部分，但确实如此。我从未听过这样的表述，这非常有道理。第一步是我们必须愿意真正勇敢起来，相信改变是可能的，这样我们才能付诸行动去实现它。

I love that framing. I've never thought about it as that is part of the problem, but that it's true. I've never heard it stated that way, and it makes so much sense. The first step is we have to be willing to be really brave and believe that it's possible so that we can go out and try to make it happen.

是的。这绝对需要勇气，尤其是涉及到那些你觉得与生俱来的观念时。你知道吗？就像这就是我，我的本性就是如此。

Yeah. It definitely takes bravery, especially around, you know, some of these topics that it feels like your mindset has been like that since day one. You know? Like, this is just who I am. I'm hard coded to be this way.

所以我认为这些是最难改变的事情，也是你需要最大勇气去实现真正转变的领域。

So I think those are some of the hardest things and, like, the stuff that you have to be bravest on trying to make real change around.

这是个非常重要且实用的观点：第一，相信我们有可能变得不同需要勇气；第二，如果我们至今仍未改变，且一生都保持某种状态，那就需要更大的勇气，因为我们实际上是在押注并相信一个巨大的转变。你分享的内容让我意识到这有多困难。说起来容易，但真正需要惊人的胆量才能说：我要改变，我要全力以赴，即使还没有看到未来的证据，我也相信自己能做到。

That's a very important and useful point, which is number one, it takes courage to believe that something different is possible for us. And number two, if we haven't changed yet and we've been a certain way our entire lives, it takes that much more courage because we're really betting and believing on a big change. And I think what you're sharing is just sort of reminding me of how big it is. Like, it's easy to say it and talk about it, but it really does require an insane amount of guts to say, I'm gonna change, and I'm gonna go all in, and I'm gonna believe that I can do it even though I don't yet have the evidence of what the future is gonna look like.

没错。而且我真心认为每个人都有这个能力。

Yeah. And I I really do think everyone is capable of it.

是的。我完全同意。当我们最终到达那个临界点时，感觉会非常强大，我们会想：好吧，我受够了停滞不前，准备好做这件可怕的事了。你呢，珍妮？

Yes. I totally agree with you. And it feels so powerful when we finally reach that tipping point, and we're like, okay. I'm sick of being stuck, and I'm ready to do the scary thing. How about you, Jenny?

对于那些感到困顿或认为自己无法成长改变的人，你会对他们说些什么？

What would you say to someone who's feeling stuck or feeling like maybe they can't grow and change?

我想说的是，事实上你钦佩的大多数人都有过同样的感受。但每当你迈出一小步，无论是提问、给予反馈，还是更全情投入地参与，你都在向自己证明成长是可能的。这绝非一蹴而就，但绝对触手可及。学院最让我欣赏的地方在于，它将这个过程分解为具体可行、不令人畏惧的小任务。你只需专注于完成这些，信心就会自然而然地随之而来。

I would say the truth is most people you admire have felt exactly the same way. But every time you take a small step forward, whether it's asking a question, giving feedback, or just showing up more fully, you're proving to yourself that the growth is possible. It's definitely not overnight, but it's absolutely within reach. My favorite thing about the academy is it just breaks it down into, like, specific doable, not intimidating tasks. And so you kinda focus on doing those, and then the confidence just comes naturally because of that.

所以我建议先从在邮件中大胆表达开始。我就是这么做的。然后逐步提升。

So I would say start taking up space in emails to start. That's what I did. And then work your way up.

没错。我太赞同了。我觉得对完美主义者而言，有时小步骤会让人觉得不够。所以我们必须突破这种心理障碍，告诉自己：这总比什么都不做强。对吧？

Yes. I love that so much. I think for perfectionists, sometimes small steps feel like not enough. So we have to get past that block and say, this is better than nothing. Right?

比如，这是个很棒的起步。而且我很喜欢你分享的观点——它可以产生滚雪球效应。对吧？事情不会止步于此。

Like, this is a great initial step. And then I love what you're sharing. It can snowball. Right? It's not gonna end here.

这只是个起点。

This is just the starting point.

是的。这样就不会那么令人望而生畏了。

Yes. So it's not nearly as overwhelming.

对。我特别认同这个观点。艾迪，你呢？对于那些感到困顿或担心改变不可能发生在自己身上的人，你会说些什么？

Yes. I love that so much. How about you, Edie? What would you say to someone who feels stuck or is worried that change isn't possible for them?

对我来说，真正建立自信的方式就是直面那些令人畏惧的挑战。这确实可能让人望而生畏，选择逃避说'我不想面对可怕的事情'总是更容易。如果只是默默无闻地混日子，不占据任何空间，确实会轻松很多。但当你勇敢面对恐惧时，你就会成长并变得更加自信。这正是我喜欢这门课的原因——它教会我们如何通过小步骤来应对那些看似吓人的挑战，从而突破自我，从中学习并变得更强大。

For me, I mean, the way that you really become more confident is by taking on those scary steps. And it can be very intimidating, and it can be an easy choice just to say, I I don't wanna take on the scary stuff. It's so much less painful and less intimidating if I just slide by and stay quiet and don't take up any space. But if you take on the scary stuff, then you you grow and you become more confident. That's what I loved about the class because we were taught in small steps just how to really take on those challenges that feel so intimidating and feel so scary so that you can make it through them and grow and learn from it and become stronger.

当我们拥有工具和支持时，能做的事情太多了，所以我很高兴听到这些。这些建议都非常棒。接下来我们要做的是，我会向大家提一个开放式问题：对于想成为更好沟通者的人，你们的最佳建议是什么？让我们从你开始，妮可。

There's so much that we can do when we have tools and support, so I love hearing that. These are so good. So what we're gonna do is I will ask you all just open ended. What's your best advice for someone who wants to be a better communicator? So let's start with you, Nicole.

对于那些正在练习大胆发声和有效表达的人，你会对他们说些什么？

What would you say to someone who's working on speaking up and sounding effective?

我最好的建议是找到最真实的自我表达方式。外界对商界领袖'应该'如何说话有太多刻板印象，我鼓励人们把这些都抛开。关键在于你如何自信地沟通——记住，当你使用最能引起自己共鸣的语言时，这种真实感自然会闪耀，你完全不需要用其他任何方式表达。

My best advice is to really find the voice that feels most authentic to you. I think there's a lot of ideas out there of what a leader in the corporate or business world should sound like, and I would encourage people to really just kind of put all that to the side. I think it's more about how you feel confident communicating. I think that's the most important thing to remember that if you are using the language that feels most resonant to you, that is going to kind of shine through, and there's no need to communicate in any other way but what feels right for you.

说得好。那么你呢，珍妮？对于想要成为

Beautiful. Okay. How about you, Jenny? What's your best advice for someone who wants to be

更好的沟通者？直接开始沟通吧。没错，就是这样。对吧？

a better communicator? Start communicating. Yeah. Good on. Right?

这是很重要的一点。所以抓住机会，展现自己，并接受不适感，而不是费尽心思逃避不适。这其实是学院课程的核心主题之一，对吧？

That was a big one. So take a chance. Put yourself out there and accept feeling uncomfortable rather than working so hard to not feel uncomfortable. Really one of the big themes of the academy. Right?

就像接受这种感觉，调整心态，而不是费尽心思去准备和说正确的话，这样反而能节省你大量时间。

Just, like, accept the feeling, address the mindset versus working so hard to prepare and say the right things, and and then that saves you a lot of time too.

没错。说得太好了。我特别喜欢这个观点。你呢，艾迪？对于想要更主动发言且更有效表达的人，你有什么最佳建议？

Yeah. So good. I love that so much. How about you, Edie? What's your best advice for someone who wants to speak up more and do that more effectively?

你知道，我同意妮可和珍妮的看法。不要试图避免说错话或让自己听起来完美无缺。更重要的是勇敢地表达，并相信自己所要贡献的内容是有价值的。

You know, I agree with both Nicole and with Jenny. It's don't try to avoid being incorrect or saying the wrong thing or trying to make yourself sound perfect when you speak and communicate. It's much more important to go into it bravely and have confidence in yourself that what you have to contribute is valuable.

好的。我们快到最后总结问题的环节了，这很令人兴奋。我们有两个总结问题。但在提问之前，我先抛出一个开放式问题：大家还有什么其他想法、收获或反思想分享吗？

Okay. We're almost at the end with the closing questions, which is exciting. So we have two closing questions. But before I ask them, I'll throw out an open ended question. Are there any other thoughts, takeaways, reflections that we haven't covered that any of you want to share?

我很喜欢专家能量的概念以及我们相关的模块。我认为这对任何认为自己能做到的人来说是个很好的实践，改变心态，就像你在演戏一样，实际上会让事情变得有趣。如果你准备充分，告诉自己要以专家的姿态出现，把它变成一种表演，即使你不够自信，也可以调整心态：我能扮演一个自信的人吗？尝试起来其实挺有趣的。

I love the idea of expert energy and the module that we do on that. I I think it's such a good practice for anyone who thinks they really can do it to change your mindset to almost like you're acting, it actually sort of makes it fun. You know? So if you, like, prepare yourself, and I'm just gonna show up as an expert and kinda turn it into acting, if you don't feel that you can be confident, kinda change your mindset to, can I act as a confident person? And it's actually kind of fun to try out.

是的。天啊，没错。我对此有很多想法。但我想补充一点，有时候当我们尝试并问自己：我能找到专家能量吗？

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I have so many thoughts on that. But one thing that I'll add in is that sometimes when we play with it and say, can I find expert energy?

我们就会真正感受到它，并开始在自己内心发现它。因为我们的目标不是永远假装确定——尽管有时在某些情况下我们必须这样做，即使内心充满疑虑，也要表现得非常坚定。但更多时候，当我们展现出那种专家能量和自信水平时，我们会意识到：我了解自己在说什么，我熟悉这个主题。为什么我之前会觉得自己不懂呢？

Then we start to feel it for real, And we start to actually find it within ourselves because the goal isn't that we want to always pretend to be certain. Although sometimes there are situations where we have to do that and we're feeling doubtful inside and we have to show up really strong. But often, when we act into that expert energy and that level of confidence, then we start to realize, I know what I'm talking about. I know this subject matter. Why was I thinking I didn't?

当然，我可以这样谈论它。

Of course, I can talk about it this way.

是的。所以如果你的内心批评者就是无法让你感到足够自信去做这件事，那就假装自信。

Yes. So if your inner critic just won't let you feel confident enough to do it, then just pretend.

是的。说得太好了。我喜欢这个观点，珍妮。好的。那么第一个结束问题是关于节目名称的，即‘发声的艺术’。

Yes. So good. I love that, Jenny. Okay. So the first of the closing questions is about the title of the show, the art of speaking up.

所以我们将再次从你开始，妮可。

So we'll start again with you, Nicole.

发声的艺术

What does the art of

对你来说意味着什么？

speaking up mean to you?

对我个人而言，曾经有一段时间我强迫自己发声，因为我知道这对我的成长有益。而且，你知道，我知道我参加这些会议是有原因的，但我对自己说的话感到怀疑，并不那么坚定。现在我不再这样对待自己了，这本身就是巨大的成长，但我希望自己能更快地达到那个成长阶段。这就是我对人们的愿望和希望，希望他们能更早地认识到这一点。对于这个项目，这也是我的期望。

What it means to me personally, there was definitely a time where I was forcing myself to speak up because I knew that it was healthy for my growth. And, know, you I knew there was a reason I was sitting in on these meetings, but I was doubting what I was saying and not feeling strong about that. And I don't do that to myself anymore, which is great and extreme growth in itself, but I had wish I had gotten to that place of growth faster. And that's my, like, wish and hope for people to, like, have that recognition sooner. And for the program, that's my hope of that.

每个人都能有幸通过实践来理解这些概念。我认为关键在于了解自己的价值，并知道无论处于职业生涯的哪个阶段，你都有工具来证明它——因为这不应仅与特定年限的经验挂钩。我的愿望是，每个人都能在任何互动中感受到自己有值得贡献的东西，并勇于表达。

Everyone can have be so lucky is to, like, work through some of these concepts. And I think the art is really in knowing your worth and knowing that there are tools at your disposal to prove it no matter what stage you're at in your career because I don't think it needs to be something that should only come with, you know, a certain amount of years of experience. That's my hope is that everyone can feel that they have something valuable to provide and speak up for in in any interaction.

说得太棒了，真美好。珍妮，你呢？对你而言，勇于表达的艺术意味着什么？

I love that. It's so beautiful. Alright. Jenny, how about you? What does the art of speaking up mean to you?

对我而言，勇于表达的艺术在于找到勇气发声，即便感到不适或冒险。这是自我尊重和领导力的体现。它不仅是提高音量，更是带着意图、忠于自我、与价值观和本真保持一致地表达。

To me, the art of speaking up is about finding the courage to express your voice even when it feels uncomfortable or risky. It's an act of self respect and leadership. And it's not just about speaking louder. It's about speaking with intention, true to yourself, and in alignment with your values and who you are.

哇，我太喜欢这个观点了。艾迪，你怎么看？勇于表达对你意味着什么？

Oh, I love that so much. How about you, Edie? What does the art of speaking up mean to you?

我从艺术角度理解——伟大艺术家之所以伟大，并非从不犯错，而是因为他们坚持创作、不断练习。勇于表达同样如此。它需要练习、坚持，以及大量的自我宽容。

I kinda took it in as far as the art factor, and great artists aren't great because they never mess up. They're great because they continue, and they continue, and they practice. And the same goes for speaking up. I mean, it takes practice. It takes persistence, and it takes a whole lot of self compassion.

你会磕绊，我们都会。但别因此止步，只需平息那些消极的自我对话。

You're gonna stumble. We all do. We all stumble. But don't let that stop you. Just quiet that negative self talk.

接纳情绪的起伏。课堂上我最爱的一句话是：问问自己，自信的我会怎么做？

Embrace the emotional ups and downs. And my favorite phrase from the class, just ask yourself, what would confident me do?

哦，这真是太好了。感谢大家的分享。最后一个问题。这个最终提问的灵感来源于激发这档节目的同一件事。我创办这个节目是因为我在企业职业生涯中曾有一段时期深陷自信危机，后来我几乎完全走出了那个阶段，并意识到我想与那些仍在努力寻找自我声音、渴望在职场上真正站稳脚跟的人分享真实的故事和鼓励。

Oh, that's so good. Thank you all for sharing. Final question. The final question is inspired by the same thing that inspired the show. So I started this show because I had a time in my corporate career where I was deeply struggling with self confidence, And I pretty much made it through to the other side of that and realized that I wanted to share honest stories and encouragement with anyone who was still struggling to find their voice and feel really solid in the workplace.

怀着这样的初衷，我想把最后的发言机会留给你们每个人，请分享你们想对正在收听、希望重燃自我信念的听众说的任何鼓励话语。那么我们从你开始，妮可。

So with that in mind, I wanna give this last space to each of you to share any final words of encouragement that you would want to share with anyone who is listening on the other end hoping to reignite their belief in themselves. So we'll start with you, Nicole.

如果要我向听众传递一条信息——特别是那些我最渴望触达的年轻女性——我想说的是：你很重要，你正在经历的挣扎都是正常的，而且你有能力改变现状。我鼓励你继续深入探索那些领域，尤其是那些让你感到不适甚至尴尬的部分，因为我向你保证，由此产生的旅程将真实属于你，且无比值得。

If I had one message to send to listeners, and for me since, like, young women in particular who are most passionate about reaching, I think it's just that you are important and that the things you are struggling with are normal, and, also, you're capable of changing them. And I wanna encourage you to keep digging into those areas, especially the ones that feel uncomfortable even if it's embarrassing because I promise you that the journey that comes from it will be authentic to you, and it will be worthwhile.

哦，这太有力量了。谢谢你分享这些，妮可。珍妮，你呢？

Oh, that's so powerful. Thank you for sharing that, Nicole. How about you, Jenny?

我想说的是：你永远不会太老、太缺乏经验或太忙碌而无法加入这个学院。这将是你职业生涯中最难忘且最重要的步骤之一。即使你并非立志成为职场领袖，只是想在生活中更敢于表达，这些经验同样适用。

Mine is that you're not too old, you're not too inexperienced, and you're not too busy to join the academy. It'll be one of the most memorable and most important career steps you'll take. And even if you don't really wanna be a leader in your career, but you would like to work on speaking up in your personal life, it's just as applicable.

艾迪，你怎么看？

How about you, Edie?

我最大的感悟是：自信的我会怎么做？抓住这个念头——自信的我会怎么做——然后付诸行动。信心正是通过反复做这些困难之事而增长的。所以去拥抱那些情绪吧，不要试图逃避它们。

The biggest takeaway for me was what would confident me do? So you take that, what would confident me do, and do it. And confidence grows just by doing those hard things over and over. So go out there and embrace those emotions. Don't try to avoid them.

然后，接受它，度过它，并变得更强大。

And, take it on and get through it and get stronger.

哦，这真是太棒了。非常感谢你们所有人来到节目，让我有机会采访你们。

Oh, that was so good. Thank you all so much for coming on the show and letting me interview you.

谢谢。这次非常有趣。哦，太好了。

Thank you. This was a lot of fun. Oh, good.

非常感谢大家收听这一期节目。我想暂停一下，花点时间衷心感谢妮可、珍妮和伊迪，她们如此勇敢地来到节目中谈论她们的成长，分享她们转变的故事。这种开放和透明需要极大的勇气和内心的勇敢，她们愿意这样做对每个人都有益。这也是我创办这个节目的原因之一，因为我们需要更多真实、诚实的对话，将我们作为职业女性面临的挑战正常化，最重要的是，让我们看到并相信我们有能力成长为梦想中那个大胆、自信的领导者。我非常感谢她们分享自己的故事，激励了我，也激励了我们所有人。

You so much for tuning in to this episode. And I wanted to pause and take a minute to share a really big heartfelt thank you to Nicole, Jenny, and Edie for being so courageous and coming on the show to talk about their growth and share their stories of transformation. This type of openness and transparency requires a ton of boldness and internal bravery, and them being willing to do this is a benefit to everyone. This is one of the reasons that I started this show is because we need to have more real honest conversations, normalizing the struggles that we face as professional women, and most importantly, us see and believe that we have what it takes to grow into that big, bold, confident leader that we dream of becoming. I am so thankful to them for sharing their stories and for inspiring me and for inspiring all of us.

我从她们分享的内容中最喜欢的收获是，建立自信不是来自完美，也不是来自从未有过内心的挣扎，而是来自内心的强大，以至于内心的挣扎不再有力量击倒我们。正如你所见，这个想法让我非常兴奋，我希望它也能让你兴奋。我希望它能帮助你明白，这不是关于完美，你不需要完美。你只需要愿意去做那些让你内心变得强大的工作。

My favorite takeaway from what they shared is that building confidence doesn't come from being perfect. And it doesn't come from never having moments of internal struggle, but actually it comes from being so strong internally that the internal struggle no longer has the power to knock us down. As you can tell, that idea gets me fired up, and I hope it fires you up as well. And I hope it helps you see that it's not about being perfect and that you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be willing to do the work to become internally strong.

如果你准备好做这项工作，想要建立你需要的内心力量和自信，像你已经是的那种强大的领导者一样说话，我想邀请你加入我的“勇敢发声学院”项目。在这个项目中，你将按照我的逐步流程来增强你的自信，学习如何以一种既精致又适合高管的方式说话，同时仍然保持你作为领导者的独特风格和个性。“勇敢发声学院”的新一期课程将在今年秋季开始，但秋季班只剩下几个名额了。获得这些名额的唯一方法是通过点击节目说明中的链接将自己加入等候名单。当你加入等候名单时，你将收到一个私人邀请，在课程满员之前报名并抢占最后的名额。

If you are ready to do that work and you want to build the internal strength and confidence that you need to speak like the powerful leader that you already are, I want to invite you to come work with me inside the Art of Speaking Up Academy. Inside this program, you will follow my step by step process to strengthen your self confidence and learn how to speak in a way that is polished and executive friendly, but that is still authentic to you and your unique style and personality as a leader. The next cohorts of the Art of Speaking Up Academy are kicking off this fall, but there are only a few spots remaining in the fall cohorts. The only way to get one of these spots is to add yourself to the waitlist by clicking the link in the show notes. When you join the waitlist, you will get a private invitation to enroll and claim one of the last remaining spots before the cohorts are full.

我迫不及待想和你一起做这项工作，看看你的转变故事会是什么样子。要开始这个过程，请点击节目说明中的链接，将自己加入等候名单。我迫不及待想在课程中见到你。非常感谢大家的收听。最后，再次衷心感谢妮可、珍妮和伊迪来到节目中。

I cannot wait to do this work with you and see what your transformation story is going to look like. To get that process started, click the link in the show notes and add yourself to the wait list. I cannot wait to see you inside the program. Thank you so much for tuning in. And one last big thank you to Nicole, Jenny, and Edie for coming on the show.

下一集我会抓住所有人。再见。

I will catch everybody in the next episode. Bye.