我们差点错过的这10部电影，你该看吗？

嗯。它清楚自己所有的立意。但然后就只是这样了。就像反复强调，这就是它的主题。而且我们会相当直白地告诉你这一点。

Mhmm. It knows it's all of its ideas. But then let's just like, that's it. It's like so again, this is what it's about. And we're gonna say that to you pretty literally.

其实还有另一个相关层面，与你刚描述的紧密相连，我认为是橄榄球的宗教性。对吧？人们如何将自己奉献给这些神一般的权力，真正掌控机构的是谁，然后他们又利用了谁？在这些机构内部，他们是如何压榨那些人的？

Well, there there's like one more aspect of it, but it's connected to what you just described, which is I think like the religion of football. Right? And the way that like people turn themselves over to these godlike powers and who's really in charge of the institutions, and then who do they use Right. Inside of those institutions. How do they prey upon those people?

因此在这部电影中，讲述的是一位刚从大学毕业的年轻明星四分卫即将被选秀，可能成为下一代伟大四分卫的故事。而与他紧密关联的球队被称为‘救世主’。嗯哼，暗示得很明显。为了在新赛季开始前进行训练，他前往球队一位即将退役的四分卫家中，这位可能是球队传奇人物的退役四分卫深受爱戴。

And so in this case, the movie is about a young star quarterback coming out of college who is about to be drafted and could be the next great QB. And the team he becomes closely aligned with is known as the saviors. Mhmm. Hint hint. And in an effort to train ahead of the launch of the new season, he goes to the home of a retiring quarterback from the franchise, maybe retiring quarterback who is an icon to this franchise, Beloved.

泰瑞克·威瑟斯是这位年轻新秀，马龙·韦恩斯则饰演这位标志性人物。整部电影有点像《沉默的羔羊》式的恐怖心理研究，聚焦于这两人之间的互动和他们所经历的种种，带着些悬疑色彩。但它并不吓人，最终也没有真正的真相揭晓。我得说这部电影的视觉风格极其时尚精美。

And Tyreke Withers is the young prospect. Marlon Wayans plays this iconic figure. And it's sort of like like a Silence of the Lambs style horror character study between these two guys and the things that they go through to and and it's sort of a mystery. It but it's not scary, and then there's no real revelation at the other side of it. I will say the movie is extremely stylish and beautiful.

是的。但它本质上就像九十分钟的广告大片，你知道的，看广告时你会感叹‘哇，这摄影、这创意、这执行手法’。广告可以很美，但往往空洞。这部电影在我看来画面绝美，但故事极其空洞。尽管两位主演有些有趣的表演，整体却显得非常失败且令人疲乏。

Yeah. But it does effectively feel like a ninety minute commercial, you know, where you can watch a commercial and be like, damn, cinematography, the the vision, the way that this is executed. Commercials can be beautiful, but they're often kind of hollow. And this movie looked beautiful to me, but I thought the story was very hollow. And I thought despite some kind of interesting performances from the two leads, it was like really unsuccessful and kind of enervating.

整部片子我都在想：故事到底什么时候才开始？

Like, the whole time I was sort of like, when is the story going to start?

没错，正是如此。

Yes. Exactly.

因为这就像一部纯粹关于训练的电影——毕竟根本没有橄榄球比赛场面。而且

Because it's like, it's just a movie about training because there's no football And

故事唯一的其他悬念就是‘他能成为史上最佳吗？’但他们反复问‘他会成为GOAT（史上最佳）吗？’就像在问‘他能当选总统还是怎么？’仿佛这是个具体头衔或职位，其实就是MVP（最有价值球员）的意思。

then it's and also the only other aspect of the story is like, is he going to be the goat? But they keep keep saying, will he be the goat? Like it's like, can he like be elected president or something? Like it's like a literal, you know, title or job. It's like it's MVP.

是的。

Yes.

我当时就想，好吧，很高兴你们这么喜欢播客，但事情不是那样的。你们一直这么说听起来很蠢。我觉得朱莉娅·福克斯非常搞笑。

And I'm like, well, I'm glad you guys like podcasts so much, but that's not really how it works. And you sound stupid when you keep saying it. I thought Julia Fox was very funny.

她是电影中唯一真正契合那种荒诞幽默感的人。是的。而且我不确定这是否是导演的意图。如果电影基调完全不统一，演员其实没什么责任。有时候它像一部残酷暴力的心理恐怖片，有时候又近乎闹剧。

She was she was the only person I thought who was really like on the wavelength of the camp sense of humor in the movie. Yeah. I'd and I don't know if that's that feels like a function of directing. Like, the performers are not really at fault if the movie has a completely uneven tone, And the tone is just really there's times where it is like a brutally violent psychological horror film. And then there are other times where it's like borderline, like, slapstick.

没错。我有点难以理解他们最终想表达什么。

Yeah. And I found it a little bit tough to understand what they were actually going for ultimately.

是啊。我是说，我只是觉得缺少剧情。懂吗？而且我同意你说的，它看起来确实很独特。

Yeah. I I mean, I was just I was missing a plot. You know? Yeah. And I agree with you that it looked, you know, good and distinctive.

我能理解他们想传达什么，但我...说实话我很无聊，因为没有明确的第一幕、第二幕、第三幕。剧情根本没有推进。

And it's like, I understand what they wanted to convey to us, but I didn't I was bored. Honestly, I was just bored because there was no, you know, first act, second act, third act. It just it wasn't moving anywhere.

对。这电影让我联想到《无边泳池》，表面看可能不太相似，但我觉得内核有很多共通点。不知道你看过没？就是亚历山大·斯卡斯加德和米娅·高斯主演，布兰登·柯南伯格导演的那部。

Yeah. The movie that that actually made me think about, which it it on the surface may not seem like it has a lot in common with, but I think actually has a lot in common with is infinity pool. I dunno if you ever saw that, the Alexander Skarsgard, Me a Goth movie that Brandon Cronenberg directed.

哦，不。是啊。

Oh, no. Yeah.

斯卡斯加德像是在度假时和女友遇到了这对夫妇，他们将他拉入了他们的世界。嗯。这部电影讲的是与世隔绝和邪教般的迷恋，非常血腥又梦幻。而且，你知道，电影里有一场狂欢派对。那部电影里也有一场狂欢派对。

Skarsgard is like on a vacation and he meets this with his girlfriend, he meets this this couple and they kind of draw him into their world. Mhmm. And it's about seclusion and cult like fascination, and it's very gory and phantasmagoric. And there's, you know, an orgy sequence in this movie. There's an orgy sequence in that movie.

但克朗伯格的电影里有无数想法。它非常引人入胜且有趣。你完全猜不到剧情走向。而这部电影就像是一个接一个的死胡同。对吧。

But like the Cronenberg movie has a million things on its mind. It's really immersive and interesting. You have no idea where it's going. This movie is just kinda like dead end after dead end. Right.

我是说，它是

And I mean, is It was

真扫兴。它像是一天一天拆开给你看，用标题卡片告诉你接下来会发生什么。真的很奇怪。

a bummer. It's parceled out day by day with like, you know, title cards that tell you what's gonna happen. It was it was really weird.

而且它们并没有真正导向任何地方，对故事情节的安排也没有深刻见解。所以，是的，这是一次相当令人失望的失误。你知道，你提到在我们讨论《我知道你去年夏天干了什么》时，你很喜欢泰瑞克·威瑟斯。他确实有银幕魅力。

And they don't really but they don't lead anywhere, and they're not really insightful about the plotting of the story. So, yeah, this is a this is a pretty big disappointing miss. I you know, you you mentioned that you really like Tyreke Withers when we were doing I Know What You Did Last Summer. And he definitely he has he has screen presence.

我觉得他表现不错且令人印象深刻。你知道，我认为这部电影某种程度上辜负了它的演员阵容，没能发挥他们的魅力。

I thought he was good and memorable. You know, I thought that that movie like this sort of did a disservice to its its cast, can't use their charms.

是啊。

Yeah.

这不是他的错。

It's it's not his fault.

马龙·韦恩斯53岁了。我知道。作为四分卫确实年纪大了。不过他看起来状态很好，非常棒。

Marlon Wayans is 53. I know. So Well That would be old for a QB. Now he looks great. He looks great.

他体型保持得非常好。或许你能接受这个设定，但马龙·韦恩斯这个形象在我生活中已经存在很久了。

And he's in great shape. And I guess you could buy it, but I have been living with Marlon Wayans in my life for a really long time.

但剧情不是暗示了魔鬼契约之类的超自然元素吗？比如他在接受输血什么的。现在的人确实会搞些奇怪的操作。

But aren't you supposed to there are a lot of like, like occult bargain with the devil. Like, you know, there's a little substance going on in here. So aren't you supposed to believe that like I mean, he's like literally getting blood transfusions. So I don't know. People people can do weird shit now.

但故事的时间线设定本就不该让我们相信他已经打了32年球。

But we're not meant to believe in the chronology of the story that he's been playing for thirty two years.

好吧

Well

这就是他还能打多久的意思。

Which is how long he would be playing.

没关系。就像NFL里，比如NFL五，你知道汤姆·布雷迪多大了，他刚退役。

That's fine. In like this NFL, if NFL five, you know, how old is Tom Brady and he just quit.

我记得他是45岁退役的。

I think he retired at 45.

好吧。所以，你知道，我我我并没有试图

Okay. So, you know, I'm I I I didn't try

给肖恩·马龙·韦恩斯算年龄。他看起来、听起来都比我强多了，也更成功。

to age Shane Marlon Wayans. He's looks, sounds better than I ever will and is more successful.

这部电影里最让我觉得逻辑不通的地方。

The biggest logic problem in the movie for me.

我想说的是，我大概在1991年看过马龙·韦恩斯演的电影。是啊，你懂吧？所以这有点...好吧，对我来说有点费解。

I guess I'm like, I saw Marlon Wayans in a movie in, like, 1991. Yeah. You know? So it's just it's a little Okay. Just a head head scratcher for me.

《哈姆》究竟更像一场惨败，还是一次大胆而壮丽的旅程？

Was was Ham a a more or less of a fiasco than a big bold beautiful journey?

这是个非常好的问题。或许更偏向前者。

So is it this is a this is a great question. Maybe less.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这可能只是因为预期过高导致的。

But but I but that's possibly just because of expectations.

明白，这没关系。我很高兴你提出了这个话题。

See that's okay. So I'm glad you set it up And that

至少可以说，他在视觉呈现上确实有所成就。

at least and I would say him at least achieved something visually.

嗯。

Mhmm.

哪里像，哪里

Where like, Where

它有一种我们在电影里可能看不到的独特风格。是的。那里有...我特别喜欢其中一幕，当头部特写镜头切换成X光片的时候。

It has it has a certain kind of style that maybe we don't see at the movies. Yeah. There there was I I enjoyed the one moment in him, by the way, when the headshot comes in and they flipped to x-ray.

哦，是啊。没错。

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

你知道，有几处这样的处理很酷。《美丽旅程大碗》其实是部令人心碎的电影。我很喜欢是枝裕和的首部作品，

You know, there were a couple of choices like that that were that were cool. A Big Bowl of Beautiful Journey is is kind of a heartbreaking movie. I love Koganada's first film,

《哥伦布》。太棒了。超爱。对。

Columbus. Incredible. Love. Yeah.

那是我过去二十年最爱的电影之一。我当年还讨论过它，上映那年它排进我的年度前五。拍《杨之后》时我请他来上过节目，他真是天赋异禀的电影人。

One of my favorite movies of the last twenty years. I talked about it. The year that it came out, it was in my top five. I had him on the show for After Yang. He's a really gifted filmmaker.

但这部片子简直...简直从开始就注定失败。这么说让我很难受，不过确实有人指出了一些有趣的...

This movie is just just just dead on arrival. And I feel terrible to say that, but like I there people have pointed something out interesting

这里发生了什么事。

what about happened here.

确实如此。

It really is.

从上到下。

Top to bottom.

是的。就像一只死鸽子。就像，这是一部从未真正起飞的电影。主演是玛格特·罗比，这是她自《芭比》之后的首部长片。

Yes. It is it's like a dead pigeon. Like, it's like, it's a movie that does not it never takes off. And it stars Margot Robbie. This is her first feature film since Barbie.

科林·法瑞尔，这几年表现非常出色。配角阵容还有凯文·克莱恩、菲比·沃勒-布里奇。剧本并非由Koganada撰写，剪辑也非他操刀。

Colin Farrell, who has been having a great few years. And then even in the supporting cast, Kevin Klein, Phoebe Waller Bridge. It's not written by Koganada, and it is not edited by Koganada.

好吧。

Okay.

值得提及的是，如果你喜欢《杨之后》或《哥伦布》，这部电影有些类似的呈现风格、构图方式和他设置镜头的手法。但其他方面感觉完全不同。故事讲述的是两个人在婚礼上被安排相亲的故事。

Something for us to cite. If you liked After Yang or Columbus, it has some of this, like, the kind of presentational style, the frame the framing, the way that he sets up a shot. Yeah. But everything else feels different. And it's a story it's a it's a movie about two people who essentially get set up on a blind date at a wedding.

他们还通过租车服务，带他们踏上一段穿越过去时光的旅程，让他们反思自己是谁、曾经是谁、做过的事，以及他们是否能够或应该在一起。这让我有点想起那些九十年代催泪电影，比如《美梦成真》。你知道吗？完全就是那种感觉。就像在一个魔幻现实主义的世界里，非常真挚感伤。嗯。

And they also, through a rental car service, take them it takes them on a journey through moments in their past so that they can reflect on who they are, who they were, the things that they did, and whether or not they can or should be together. And it reminded me a little bit of, like, really kinda treakly nineties movies like What Dreams May Come. You know? Totally. Like, in a a sort of magical realist world, and it's a very sincere sentimental Mhmm.

对情感的探索，但缺乏任何幽默感或真正能引起共鸣的现实基础。而最糟糕的是——我想你会同意我的看法——这两个各自很出色的人在一起时完全没有化学反应。

Exploration of feeling, but without any, like, sense of humor or grounding that really clicks. And then the worst thing I think you'll agree with me is, like, these two people who are individually great have no chemistry.

完全没有。我一直在想玛格特·罗比饰演的角色简直就是「狂躁精灵梦女孩」的噩梦。而且它确实采用了那种套路：这个穿着像《恋恋笔记本》里布莱克·莱弗利般梦幻的女人，带领这个男人经历某种冒险，让他能触及自己的情感，然后或许找到爱情。真是非常糟糕的设定。我有个朋友读过原版剧本，说剧本原本也很出色且截然不同。

No. And I was thinking a lot about the Margot Robbie character is just a manic pixie dream girl nightmare. And so and it does have that construction of who is this whimsical woman dressed like Blake Lively from It Ends With Us, leading this man through some sort of, you know, adventure where he can access his emotions and then and then maybe find love. Really, really bad stuff. I have a friend who read the original script and said that the script is also was also originally really good and very different.

所以你提到这不是科甘南达写的，可能这里存在某种错位和诠释问题...我发短信问他：'好吧，那原剧本里有什么好的部分？'老实说我真找不出任何亮点。除了科林·法瑞尔表演的《如何不费吹灰之力在商界成功》那段。

So your point about how it was not written by Kogananda, there's maybe a mismatching here and the interpretation that's, you know, I I texted him and I was like, okay, but what was good in it? Like I really honestly can't find anything. Maybe besides Colin Farrell doing, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying.

是啊。不过我倒...我还有点喜欢那部分。

Yeah. Well, I didn't I I kind of enjoyed that part.

大概...大概三分钟吧，我当时想'哦好吧，所以这是...'你知道的

For for three minutes, I was like, oh, okay. So it's, you know

电影中间有一段《歌舞青春》式的场景...对...非常迷人。也许这部电影干脆就该拍成音乐剧。那样说不定反而会更成功。

There's a high school musical set piece Yeah. In the center of the movie that is very charming. Yeah. And maybe the movie should have just been a musical entirely. That might have actually been more successful.

但我觉得部分原因是我自己的执念，因为我在电影竞猜联盟里选了这部电影。对，在我参加的那个电影梦幻联盟里，我选了这部。这大概是我在那个联盟里唯一一部纯粹不会有什么表现的片子。我想可能是因为我对Kogonada前两部电影的喜爱让我对它期待过高了。

But I don't it some of this is my own hang up because, like, I took this movie in the movie auction. Yeah. In my movie fantasy league that I'm in, I have this movie. It's probably the only movie I I picked in that league that is like just straight up not gonna do anything. And I think maybe just my appreciation for the two previous Kogonada movies Well had me hyped up about it.

懂我意思吗？

You know?

我是说，其实早有预兆——这可是科林·法瑞尔、玛格特·罗比和Koganada合作的片子。在我们只知道纸面信息时就被寄予厚望。结果秋季电影节排片一个个公布，这片子却毫无动静。最后就突然定档了。

I mean, the writing was on the wall as this you know, this is Colin Farrell, Margot Robbie, and Koganada. Before we knew anything about it besides what was on paper, it was anticipated. And then the fall fall festival lineup came on one by one, and there was just absolutely nothing. It gets this release date.

我记得原定档期是母亲节？应该是母亲节。后来他们改档了，直接扔进了九月的票房荒漠期。

I think it was originally supposed to be was it Mother's Day? I think it was Mother's Day. And then they bumped it. And I was like, they bumped it into this September wasteland.

没错。

Right.

我当时就觉得情况不妙。

And I was like, that's not good.

不过我觉得他们改档的时候

But I think when they bumped it

我们原本希望它是这样的

We had hoped it was like

一直是强有力的竞争者。没错。因为我们以为是因为它紧随电影节之后上映。所以我们猜想它可能会首映后直接顺势进入那个阶段。

a always contender. Right. Because we thought that it was because it was after a film festival. So we thought maybe it would debut and then coast right into that.

甚至连多伦多电影节都没入选

To not even be a tiff

是啊。确实。

is Yeah. Yeah.

嗯。总之，你的怀疑是对的。

Yeah. Anyway, that you the suspicions were correct.

没错。

Yeah.

而且真的很艰难。太疯狂了。顺便说一句，我

And Really tough stuff. It's wild. And I by the way,

我也觉得视觉风格不太奏效。

I didn't I didn't think the the visual style worked either.

我认为它试图营造一种高级的幻想式制作设计，像是儿童绘本的风格。确实如此。有些时候效果不错，但另一些时候我就很困惑——为什么我们现在要出现在汉堡王里？这种本应充满奇思妙想的产品植入，为何显得如此俗气？

I think it was trying to do a kind of elevated imagined production design, like children's book production design. For sure. And at times it worked and at other times I was like, why are we in a Burger King right now? Yeah. Like what is what is even the thinking here of this product placement that is meant to be whimsical, but it's just so tacky?

确实，非常

Really, really

令人沮丧。就像是一连串糟糕的选择不断重复。这很遗憾，因为他和《美丽心灵之旅》正是我所期待的那种作品。

depressing. A series of, like, really bad choices over and over again. And this is tough because him and a big bowl beautiful journey are literally what I'm asking for.

没错。原创新锐电影人，

Right. Original Young filmmakers,

相对经验不足，只拍过几部电影，原创故事，明星，冉冉升起的新星，以类型片为跳板吸引观众，这次是恐怖片和爱情片，某种程度上也包括浪漫喜剧，但主要是爱情片。是的。《Nightbare》。一部面向年轻男性观众的电影和一部面向年轻女性观众的电影。而这个周末原本是它们能有所作为的时机，但《鬼灭之刃》在第二个周末就直接碾压了这些电影。

relatively inexperienced, have only made a couple of movies, original stories, stars, ascendant stars, using genre as a springboard to draw audiences in horror and romance in this case, I guess, rom com to to some extent, mostly romance. Yeah. Nightbare. A film for young male audiences and a film for young female audiences. And this is this was an open weekend where they could do something, and Demon Slayer in its second weekend just obliterated these movies.

是啊。因为没人想要这种特定的东西。现在这两部电影都获得了非常糟糕的评价。非常糟糕的评价。

Yeah. Because nobody wants this specific thing. Now both of these movies got very bad reviews. Very bad reviews.

还有糟糕的电影评分。就像，没人没人开心。

And bad cinema scores. Like like, no one no one is happy.

是的。所以我不想，你知道，混淆或混为一谈。

Yes. So I don't wanna, you know, confuse or conflate.

有时候你尝试一些事情，但它们行不通。

Sometimes you try things and they and they don't work.

是的。

Yes.

然后电影公司把它们都安排在同一天上映。你知道，这就像是电影版的周五新闻垃圾时间。

And then the studios put them all on the same day. You know, it's the it's the movie version of taking, you know, Friday news dump.

是啊。

Yeah.

这是九月的垃圾时间。

It's a September dump.

确实。是的。

Exactly. Yeah.

所以此刻感觉糟透了，因为我们期待的一切都没能实现。但它们被捆绑在一起正是出于这个原因。

So it feels really bad in this moment because all the things we want didn't pan out. But they are packaged together for that reason.

确实如此。问题是，当你我或那些热爱电影、渴望优质原创故事的人对此抱怨时，这正是高管们害怕的。明白吗？《Him》可能是部3000万美元成本的电影，或许能回本无虞。但《A Big Bold Beautiful Journey》这部大制作明星云集的电影，将会亏损惨重。

They they are. And the thing is when you and I growls about this or people who just love movies and want quality original storytelling grouse about it, this is what executives are afraid of. You know? Him is probably like a 30,000,000 movie, and it'll probably make its money back and be fine. But A Big Bull Beautiful Journey, this is a big expensive movie with movie stars, and it's gonna lose a lot of money.

这周末它只收了400万美元票房。我是说，它会亏得血本无归，而索尼今年已经够糟了。这就是人们不敢冒险的原因——如果你拍了《A Big Bold Beautiful Journey》却失败了，你就会被炒鱿鱼，然后片方会再拍三部蜘蛛侠衍生剧。没错。因为他们得向股东交代。

It made $4,000,000 this weekend. I mean, it's gonna lose a ton of money, and Sony is already having a terrible year. So this is why people are afraid to take risks is because if you make A Big Bold Beautiful Journey and you fail, you're gonna get fired, and the studio is gonna make three more Spider Man spin offs. Yeah. Because they're they they report to their shareholders.

总之，这个背景信息我觉得很有用，尽管我本希望自己能爱上这部电影。讽刺的是，我们接下来要讨论的是一部系列电影的第三部，嗯，衍生自某电视剧的作品——正是我们总说厌倦了的那种套路。可它偏偏是今年最令人愉悦的电影之一。

So, anyway, that context I think is useful even though I I would have loved to have loved this movie. And ironically, the next movie that we will talk about is the third installment Yeah. In a movie series, which is spun off from a TV series, which is the exact thing that we say we don't want and are sick of. Yeah. And it's one of the most delightful movies of the year.

就像周三晚粉丝场放映结束后你对我说过的，我们旁边坐着些人大声对着银幕说话，仿佛他们

I mean, as you said to me when we walked out from our fan screening, the Wednesday night, we sat next to people who talked loudly at the TV as if they

置身于

were at

盯着屏幕，仿佛他们

at the screen as if they were

就在家里一样。我们是放映现场最年轻的人。是啊。

at home. We were the youngest people at the screening. Yeah.

这没关系，因为你知道，有时候你会觉得，他们不应该每年都制作并发布一部这样的作品。这就像是，那叫做电视剧。

And that's okay because, you know, at some point when you're like, they shouldn't make one of these every year and release them. It's like, that is called television.

是啊。

Yeah.

你懂吧？

You know?

确实如此。

That's true.

而我会乐此不疲地观看。我们当然是在谈论《唐顿庄园》的大结局，我希望这不是真正的大结局。

And I would watch it happily. We are of course talking about Downton Abbey, the grand finale, which I hope is not the grand finale.

我也是。

Me too.

你知道的，我们继续吧。

You know, let's keep going.

真是个赢家。

What a winner.

现在是1930年。距离战争还有十年。你知道吗？我们还有很多事情可以做。

It's 1930. We have ten years before the war. You know? Like, there's plenty more that we can get to.

我们可以做到的，我们可以再拍五十年的玛丽小姐。

We can do this we could do lady Mary for the next fifty years.

拜托。我想是吧。不过总有一天，她确实得卖掉唐顿庄园。你知道吗？所以这没关系。

Come on. I guess so. Though at some point, she like she does have to sell Downton Abbey. You know? So That's fine.

没错。但实际上那有点

That's right. But then that actually kinda

但后来你只是把标题改成了《唐顿庄园》之后。

But then you just changed the title to after Downton Abbey.

我想是的。但后来你也想这么做。

I guess so. But then you wanted to.

所以我几乎

So I'm almost

追完了《镀金时代》。你好，特雷西·莱茨。你怎么样？我正享受着我生命中最美好的时光。当然，就像朱利安·费罗斯的下一部作品那样，对吧。

caught up on Gilded Age. Hello, Tracy Letts. How are you? And and I'm having the time of my life. And that is, of course, like Julian Fellowes is like next Yeah.

《唐顿庄园》之后的大项目。但那是

Big post Downton Abbey project. But that's

设定在1910年代左右，对吧？

set in like the nineteen tens. Right?

不，我觉得更像是19世纪末。但值得注意的是，它并不是在英国现有的豪华庄园里拍摄的。它是在摄影棚里拍摄的，然后使用了——恕我直言——我这辈子见过的一些最糟糕的CGI效果。

No. I think it's like the late eighteen hundreds. But it is it is notably not filmed at a existing great manner in The UK. It is filmed on sound stages and then uses, you know, respectfully, some of the worst CGI I have ever seen in my entire life.

酷。我想。对吧？

Cool. I though. Right?

是啊。但感觉就像，你知道，看起来特别特别假，因为他们想象的是百年前的纽约。然后，我也不知道。无剧透地说，我最近看到一场车祸场景简直侮辱智商，懂吗？我可是付了HBO Max会员的。

Yeah. But it's like, you know, it looks super super fake because they're imagining a New York of a hundred years ago. And then, I don't know. Like no spoilers, but I just watched there there was a crash recently that like was insulting, you know. Like I pay for my HBO Max.

好吧。得了吧。

Okay. Come on.

就是看起来有多糟糕。

Just how bad it looks.

对。你们其实可以做得更好点。好吧。总之我想说的是，朱利安·费洛斯需要实景拍摄才能出效果，我现在超爱《镀金时代》，希望它能永远拍下去。

Yeah. Like you guys actually can do a little better. Okay. But So you This is all to say that I like Julian Fellows needs the location for it to like and I'm loving Gilded Age. And I like I hope it runs forever.

但我确实认为你们需要真实场景。所以如果他们不得不卖掉纳比庄园，那会很棘手。

But I do think that you need an actual place. And so if they had to sell down Nabby, that would be tough.

嗯，你这么说很有趣，因为这显然是这个故事张力的重要部分。正如你所说，这部电影的背景是1930年。

Well, it's interesting that you say that because that is obviously a huge part of the tension of this story. Because this movie takes place as you said in 1930.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

克劳利家族他们不得不缩减规模。是的。你知道，我们正进入英国的新时代，庄园时代即将结束，家族必须审视他们的财务状况，看看能负担得起什么。光是运营庄园，维护它就非常昂贵。另外，你知道，克劳利勋爵正在将家族遗产和所有权传给玛丽小姐。

And the the Crawleys are they're they have to downsize. Yeah. You know, we're entering a new era of England and the manor era is ending and the family has to look at their finances and what they can and can't afford. Just running the abbey, just up keeping it is tremendously expensive. Plus, you know, you've got Lord Crawley is passing the the sort of family heritage and ownership down to Lady Mary.

他是克劳利勋爵还是格兰瑟姆勋爵？

Is he Lord Crawley or Lord Grantham?

格兰瑟姆勋爵。抱歉。是的。为什么我一直说克劳利？

Lord Grantham. Excuse me. Yeah. Why do I see keep saying Crawley?

嗯，他们的家族姓氏是克劳利。

Well, their family name is Crawley.

明白了。格兰瑟姆勋爵。你说得对。

Got it. Lord Grantham. You're right.

他是格兰瑟姆勋爵。是的。

He is Lord Grantham. Yeah.

谢谢你纠正我。电影中的紧张感实际上在于，他们认为格兰瑟姆——我想他们觉得——搬进一套公寓，那可能是你我住过的最好的公寓了。

Thank you for correcting me. And the tension literally in the movie is is that they Grantham, I they think. Pour a flat, which is a which would be the easily the nicest apartment you and I have ever lived in.

完全同意。

Totally.

而他对于住在这套公寓里的想法感到困惑且痛苦。

And he is just baffled and miserable at the idea of living in this flat.

格兰瑟姆勋爵理解什么是周末，就像理解什么是公寓一样。是的。他还说，如果我想上楼洗澡呢？他们回答，这里没有楼上。但没错，他们不得不卖掉伦敦的房子。

Lord Grantham gets his what is a weekend, which is like what is a flat. Yes. And he's like, if I wanna go upstairs, you know, to to take a bath? And they're like, there is no upstairs. But yeah, they have to they sell their London home.

对吧？对。这正是所有所谓的名门望族那时在做的事。他们这么做是为了保住庄园。

Right? Right. Which is what all, like, all the quote unquote great families were doing at that time. But they so they can keep the estate.

没错。

Right.

但如果你没有庄园

But if you don't got the estate

是的。显然，应该反过来才对。他们应该卖掉修道院，这样才能保住伦敦的住宅。

Yeah. Obviously, it should be the other way around. They should be selling the abbey so that they can keep the London home.

这是你会采取的做法。嗯，确实。

That's what you would do. Well, yeah.

没错。因为我们都知道这些宏伟庄园在二十世纪的结局——全都破败不堪，最终被迫出售。我是说，它们最后都成了博物馆般的陈列品。

Yeah. Because we know what happens to all of these giant manors in the twentieth century. They all become decrepit and have to be sold off. I mean They become like museum pieces.

确实如此。而且正是第二次世界大战，你知道的，加速了这个过程。实际上只有...

That is true. And it's the it's the second world war that, you know, brings it on. And only really

只有他们能预见到法西斯主义的崛起在...

Only they could see the rise of fascism in

1930年代。他们还开放庄园成为博物馆，这是当时的一个选择。

1930. They also opened them to there's an option where they like become museums.

是啊，当然。

Yeah. Sure.

这种情况仍然存在，比如人们住在小小的侧翼里，然后，你知道的，就像国民信托那样。

And that still happens where like people live in little small wings and then, you know, like the National Trust

这对格兰瑟姆伯爵的底线意味着什么呢？你考虑过这个问题吗？

What does that mean for Lord Grantham's bottom dollar though? You know, have you considered that?

嗯，你需要支付入场费，人们才能进去参观。

Well, you like pay entrance and people go

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后那里还有个礼品店。

And then there's like a gift shop.

好吧。

Okay.

所以，你知道，那可能会很有趣。非常酷。比如玛丽小姐就像是某个地方的讲解员。我也不太清楚。继续创作吧。

And so, know, that that could be funny. Very cool. Like lady Mary is like the docent of the something. I don't really know. Keep making them.

这部电影的另一件事是这样的。好吧。马修·古德没能参演第二部。

This movie the other thing this movie does. Okay. Matthew Good was not available for movie two.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以他压根没出现，剧情用'婚姻问题'一笔带过。是的。而且显然

And so he just wasn't in it and they were quote unquote like having marital problems. Yes. And apparently

马修·古德饰演的角色娶了米歇尔·道克瑞的角色，就是那位夫人。是的。

Matthew Good's character is married to, Michelle Dockery's character, Lady Yes.

亨利。他喜欢赛车，你知道的，没错。所以我猜他也没空拍第三部。

Henry. And he likes racing cars as, you know, sure. So I guess he was not available for movie three.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他忙着拍《悬案密码》系列还是什么的。

He was too busy doing department q or whatever is going on.

好剧。

Good show.

我还没看呢，接下来就安排上。

I still haven't seen it. It'll be next on my list.

我真的很喜欢。

I really liked it.

对我来说，《镀金时代》更重要。不过你知道的

Gilded age is more important to me personally. But You know

我这个人，从不说'好剧'。但我觉得它非常棒。

me, I never say good show. I thought it was very good.

好吧，那太好了。虽然我觉得克里斯和安迪已经剧透给我了。随便吧。

Okay. That's great. Yeah. So I although I think Chris and Andy spoiled it for me. Whatever.

总之，马修·古迪退出了。玛丽小姐正在办离婚，这引发了很多社会矛盾——顺便说下，这也是《镀金时代》第三季的重要剧情线。是的，至少对英国人来说，情况并没有好转。

Anyway, so Matthew Goode cut out. Lady Mary's getting a divorce and this is bringing on a lot of social tension, which is also a major plot line in episode in season three of the Gilded Age, just to let you know. Yes. Things have not gotten better, at least, for the Brits.

好吧，虽然那是五十年前的事了，不过确实如此。

Well, is fifty years in the past, but sure.

但对《唐顿庄园》来说，情况并没有好转。是的。不过这也挺像美国人的作风，没关系。但英国人嘛，你知道的，行事缓慢又讲究规矩。没错。

Well, but for Downton Abbey, things have not gotten better. Yep. But it's but it's really also like Americans, it's okay. But the Brits, you know, are slow and proper. Yep.

总之，玛丽小姐正在闹离婚，反而可能要跟一些来访者搞暧昧。阿莱桑德罗·尼沃拉。

Anyway, so Lady Mary is getting a divorce and instead has to like possibly get frisky with some some people who who come to to visit. Alessandro Navola.

对。他饰演保罗·吉亚玛提的兄弟角色——伊丽莎白·麦戈文的情人，在经济大萧条最严重的时期陷入财务困境。我想差不多就在大萧条快结束的时候，1930年正是大萧条尾声。

Yeah. Who plays a a companion of Paul Giamatti's brother character of Elizabeth McGovern, and he is in financial straits at the height of the no. I guess right at the end of the depression, essentially. 1930 would be right when the depression is ending.

没错。

Right.

而尼沃拉的角色在经济上解救了他。

And he has been financially rescued by the Nivola character.

对。

Right.

于是他迅速融入了这种伦敦生活方式。

And he whisks his way into this London lifestyle.

没错。而且尼沃拉的角色还有一匹马在阿斯科特赛马场参赛。

Right. And the Nivola character also has a horse running at Ascot.

是的。

Yes.

这又是大规模CGI制作的阿斯科特场景。

And this again, it's major CGI Ascot.

它

It

确实如此。所以这就是问题所在——你需要真实的房子。

does. And so this is the problem. You need the real house.

嗯，确实需要。

Well, you do.

我有。是的。我有标准。行了吧？

I do. Yes. I have standards. Okay?

比如，但离开玛丽意味着要降低标准。

Like But leaving Mary is gonna be downsizing.

所以这就像是你的版本，你的ATS或CGI替代现实？不，不。我们要真实的房子。

So This is like your version get is your version of the at ats or CGI instead of real? No. No. We want the real house.

好的。我支持你。我支持

Okay. I I stand with you. I stand

你。比如，位置很重要。

with you. Like, let's that's location matters.

这并没有减少我对这部电影的完全享受。

It didn't take away from my utter enjoyment of this movie.

我也是。但我只是，这是为了，你知道的，下一个盛大结局。

Same. But I'm just I'm this is for, you know, the next grand finale.

是的。如果你喜欢这类电影，比如你喜欢这部剧的话。嗯。这三部电影都很棒。没错。如果你对这部剧不感兴趣，那就没必要看这些电影了。

Yes. If you like these movies, like if you liked the show Mhmm. All three movies are great. Yeah. If you don't care about the show, there's no reason to watch the movies.

我个人对这几部电影的排名是：第二部最佳，然后是这一部。

I would say that my rankings of the movies are number two as the best, then this one.

二、三、一。对。

Two three one. Yeah.

对。二、三、一。

Yeah. Two three one.

我完全同意你的看法。第三部很棒。我觉得它表现不错。第一部电影的票房远超1亿美元。

I'm with you. A 100%. Three was great. I feel like it's doing fine. The first movie made well over a $100,000,000.

可以说，它是很成功的。是的。第二部表现也不错。对。这部目前的表现

Like, it was a hit. Yeah. Second movie did fine. Yeah. This movie's doing

不如第二部 不过第二部上映时正值疫情期间。确实。我和妈妈在Peacock上看的，那次...你没和我一起看吗？没有。我没看。

less Second movie though was Pandemic. It was. I watched it on Peacock with my mom and that was one You didn't see it with me? No. I didn't.

哦，好的。我在影院看的，当时玩得非常开心。

Oh, okay. I saw it in theaters and I had a grand old time.

不，我是在家和我母亲一起看的，那感觉棒极了。

No. I I watched it at home with my mother and it was it was awesome.

好吧，让我来给你讲讲《长征》这部电影。

Okay. Let me tell you about The Long Walk.

哦，我当时在休假，所以没去影院。

Oh, I was on leave. That's why.

这就说得通了。

That makes sense.

所以，嗯。

And so yeah.

是啊，我们怎么可能不...

Yeah. How could you and I not

看吧，当时我和我妈妈在一起，我们把诺克斯哄睡了，然后我们就觉得，每次都是这样。

see then I was with my mom and we put Knox to bed and we were just like, it's down every time.

两个很棒。

Two is great.

两个简直不可思议。而且他们又去了法国南部的真实豪宅。那也是以房地产为核心的。

Two is incredible. And again, they go to the real house in the South Of France. And it is also real estate focused.

你指着我指得非常咄咄逼人。

You're pointing at me very aggressively.

好吧，你花了两个小时讲实体媒体。让我用五分钟说说我们为什么需要

Well, you did two hours about physical media. Let me do five minutes about how we need

如果你想做一整集《唐顿庄园》的内容，你可以做

to If you wanna do a whole Downton Abbey episode. You can do it

不，只要真实的房子。好吧，真实的地方。

No. Just real houses. Okay. Real places.

最佳电影屋是个绝佳的节目选题，你好好考虑下。我知道你肯定会提《新娘的父亲》之类的片子。

Best movie houses is a great idea for an episode. So just think on that. I know you're gonna say father of the bride and da da da.

我在《重温经典》的某一期节目里确实做过这个片单。

I have done I did do that list on an episode of the rewatchables.

没错。

That's right.

对，是南希·迈耶斯那期吗？不，其实是《玫瑰战争》那期——顺便说我们根本没看到玫瑰，抱歉。

Yeah. I the Nancy Meyers episode? No. It was actually on the war of the roses episode, which by the way, we did not see the roses. Sorry.

是啊，在法国看到很多它的海报，法国人特别期待这片。但我不感兴趣，难得一见的情况。

Yeah. I saw a lot of posters for it in France. They were really excited about it in France. However, I was not. So rare

这次我成了伪君子：我向来反对电影上映三周就上点播平台，希望尽可能延长影院放映。但这次我居然想着'拜托让我看看《玫瑰》吧'，因为电影上映时我在外地。总之，奥利维娅·科尔曼上周参加了《好聚》节目，请尽情欣赏。

case where I am a hypocrite in that I don't want movies to go to VOD three weeks after release ever. I want them to stay in theaters as long possible. This was the one time where I was like, please, I would like to see the roses because I was out of town when the movie was released. Anyhow, Olivia Colman is on Good Hang last week. Please enjoy.

她很棒。你没错过太多内容。好吧，你看到玫瑰了？我看了。

She's great. You're not missing a whole lot. Okay. You saw the roses? I did.

你不喜欢它。好吧。没关系。行。本集由FX电视台的《内幕追踪》赞助，伊桑·霍克主演。

You didn't love it. Alright. It's fine. Okay. This episode is supported by FX's The Lowdown starring Ethan Hawke.

让我们向你介绍李·雷本，一个古怪的记者兼稀有书店老板兼非官方真相追寻者，他总是紧追最新的阴谋论。这次，他最近的调查报告让他与统治塔尔萨的一个权势家族正面交锋，这意味着只有一件事——他肯定发现了什么大事。FX电视台《内幕追踪》9月23日首播，FX频道播出，Hulu平台同步上线。我简单说说《漫长的步行》，因为很多人问我是否看过这部。

Allow us to introduce you to Lee Raybon, a quirky journalist slash rare bookstore owner slash unofficial truth seeker who is always on the tail of his latest conspiracy. This time, his most recent expose puts him head to head with a powerful family that rules Tulsa, meaning only one thing, he must be onto something big. FX is the lowdown premiere September 23 on FX. Stream on Hulu. Let me tell you about The Long Walk quickly because I had a lot of people ask me if I saw this.

我周末还和几个朋友发短信聊过这部电影。好吧。这是最新的斯蒂芬·金改编作品，由弗朗西斯·劳伦斯执导，剧本由JT·莫尔纳操刀，他正是去年自编自导《奇异宠儿》的那位。

I was texting with a couple of friends over the weekend about this movie too. Okay. So this is the latest Stephen King adaptation. It is directed by Francis Lawrence. The screenplay is by JT Moelner, who is the man who wrote and directed Strange Darling from last year.

这部电影在斯蒂芬·金的作品史上挺有意思，因为可以说这是他写的第一部小说。他在六十年代上大学时写的——他是缅因大学的新生对吧？

This is a kind of an interesting movie in the Stephen King history because it is arguably the first novel he ever wrote. And he wrote it in the sixties when he was a freshman at the where did he did he go to the University of Maine?

是的。

He did.

所以他上了缅因大学。他开始写小说时还在念大学。他的第一部大热小说是1974年的《魔女嘉莉》，而这本书《漫长的步行》基本上在书架上搁了十年。直到79年他才以理查德·巴赫曼的笔名出版，这是他用的一个化名。你知道，很多作家都...

So he went to the University of Maine. He started writing novels, and he was in college. His first big hit novel was Carrie in 1974, and this book, The Long Walk, sat on the shelf basically for ten years. And he got it published in '79 under his Richard Bachman alias, which is an alias that he has. You know, lot of writers have

嗯。

Mhmm.

作家们常有笔名。他们以其他名义发表小说。他就曾以巴赫曼的笔名出版过许多书。尽管我读过不少七十年代金的作品，《漫长的步行》却始终与我擦肩而过，不知何故。

Have have aliases. They publish other novels under. He's published many books under Bachman. I've never read The Long Walk even though I've read a lot of those seventies King books. For whatever reason, this one always got past me.

令人惊讶的是它直到现在才被改编，但剧情其实非常简单。本质上是雪莉·杰克逊《彩票》与马拉松的结合体。

It's kinda shocking that it hasn't been adapted until now, but the premise is very simple. It is essentially Shirley Jackson's The Lottery mixed with a marathon.

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

故事讲述每年各州选出一名青少年，参加这场高风险的竞赛——他们必须以每小时三英里以上的速度持续行走，直到只剩最后一人站立。获胜者将得到巨额奖金，具体数额未明。

So it's about teens, one from each state, come together once a year to engage in this kind of high stakes contest where they walk for as long as they possibly can while keeping their pace above three miles per hour until there's one person left standing. And that one person left standing is the winner and wins a great prize, unspecified amount of money.

懂了。

Okay.

这显然是由类似国家军事机构组织的。马克·哈米尔饰演的少校全程驾驶卡车跟随行走者，负责整个活动。设定非常精彩。导演弗朗西斯·劳伦斯曾执导多部《饥饿游戏》系列。

This is clearly run by, like, a state organization, the military essentially. There's a major played by Mark Hamill who is essentially in charge of this whole thing, and he is in a a truck riding with the walkers throughout this the entirety of this film. Really good premise. Francis Lawrence, who has made a number of Hunger Games films.

对弗朗西斯·劳伦斯来说确实是个熟悉的题材。

Say a familiar premise for Francis Lawrence.

《红雀》、《康斯坦丁》拍过些有意思的电影。对，他绝对是那种走高端暴力类型片的导演。主演是库珀·霍夫曼和大卫·约翰逊，库珀·霍夫曼是男主角。

Red Sparrow, Constantine made some some interesting movies. Yeah. It's definitely like a high toned genre violence filmmaker. Stars Cooper Hoffman and David Johnson. Cooper Hoffman is the lead.

他就像是我们的视角角色，带领观众进入故事的入口人物。

He's like our entry character, our portal character.

明白。

Okay.

他是个决心要赢得这场比赛的年轻人，但直到影片很后期才揭晓原因。大卫·约翰逊——观众可能在《异形：罗慕路斯》或《投行风云》里见过他，他在《投行风云》前两季表现很棒——饰演另一个角色麦克维里斯，在影片早期与库珀·霍夫曼的角色成为朋友。整部电影就是这群人边走边聊，同时不断遭遇可怕的事情。

And he's a young guy who is bound and determined to win this contest, but he doesn't reveal why until very late in the film. David Johnson, who people may have seen in Alien Romulus or Industry, he's wonderful in the first two seasons of Industry. He plays another guy, McVries, who befriends Cooper Hoffman's character early on in the film. And the whole film is just these guys walking and talking. And that and also terrible things happening to them.

如果他们的步行速度低于每小时三英里，会收到三次警告，之后就会被枪杀。

If they fall below three miles per hour, they get three warnings until they are shot dead.

懂了。

K.

有些人在行走过程中突发重病，有些人精神崩溃产生自杀倾向。别忘了他们要走上数百英里，还得解决大小便问题。

They some people get violently ill along the walk. Some people lose their mind and become suicidal on the walk. You gotta remember, they're walking hundreds of miles, so they have to piss and defecate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所有这些因素都交织在一起。从这方面看，这是一部相当粗粝的电影。它几乎向你展示了所有东西。而我或多或少还是投入其中的。好吧。

And like all of this comes into play. It's a very gnarly movie in that respect. It's kind of showing you everything. And I was I was like more or less into it. Okay.

你能看出这部电影拍起来非常困难，因为本质上摄影机就架在马克·哈米尔站的那辆卡车上，演员们全程都在镜头前行走表演。我记得他们是用什么词来形容拍摄方式的？基本上是从头到尾——

It's you can see it's a very hard movie to make because it is essentially like the camera is where the truck is that Mark Mark Hamill is standing on, and the actors are just into camera walking through the entirety of production. I read that they shot it in what is the word I'm looking for? From start to finish essentially in

按剧本顺序拍摄。

the script. In sequence.

按顺序。谢谢。所以他们按顺序拍摄的。霍夫曼和约翰逊在这部电影里表现惊人。剧本只能说还行。

In sequence. Thank you. So they shot it in sequence. And Hoffman and Johnson are amazing in this movie. The script is okay.

有些角色描写略显轻率或过度雕琢，但他们的表演很棒。约翰逊不是美国人，却模仿了一种非常有趣的南方口音。好吧。而库珀·霍夫曼让我看完电影后就想：未来四十年就让这些人演电影吧。没错。

There's like some character stuff that is a little bit like glib or overwritten, but their performances are great. Johnson's not American, and he's affecting a very interesting southern accent. Okay. And Cooper Hoffman is like, I watched the movie and I was like, just put these guys in movies for the next forty years. Yeah.

让他们主演电影会非常棒。我觉得这部电影的结尾很糟糕。虽然不想剧透给还没看的人，但我觉得它某种程度上抛弃了前提设定中许多激动人心的部分。和当下许多电影一样，它像是晚期资本主义的隐喻——金钱和体制如何让人发疯，如何控制人们。你知道，这非常像后末日景象，但又莫名设定在1970年代，可所有细节都含糊其辞。

That would be amazing to let them star in movies. I thought the ending of this movie was terrible. And I'm loath to spoil it for people who haven't seen it yet, but I thought it kind of like rejected a lot of what was exciting about the premise. The movie is like so many movies right now, kind of like a late capitalism metaphor for how money and institutions make everyone crazy, and it's how they control people. And, you know, this it's very much like a post apocalyptic landscape, but maybe set in the nineteen seventies somehow, but then they're nonspecific about everything.

整部戏几乎都围绕着这些家伙展开。有些演员表现不错，有些则不尽如人意。不过还算有趣，只是看到最后我真的很生气。

It's all just very much about these guys. Some of some of the actors are good. Some of them are not so good. But it was diverting, and then at the end, I was mad.

好吧。

Okay.

这就是我的观后感。

That's my takeaway from it.

明白了。

Alright.

我本希望它能更好。如果这是个关于《长路》的播客，我会逐帧分析。但现在只觉得像是遭到了重大否定。

I wish it was better. And if this was a podcast about the long walk, I'd go frame by frame through But it just felt like a major rejection.

像这类电影，结尾必须处理得当，否则前面所有内容都会显得站不住脚。

I mean, in a ex in a movie like that, you have to stick the landing or else everything else is kind of invalidated.

电影结束时整个影院死寂一片。我觉得这完全违背了导演的初衷，某种程度上毁了我的观影体验。不过霍夫曼和约翰逊演得精彩，劳伦斯确实是个扎实的电影人。

Was just dead silent in my movie theater at the end. Like, And so and I that that was the opposite of what I think the intention was. So kinda spoiled the experience for me. But Hoffman and Johnson, wonderful. Lawrence, solid filmmaker.

我们外出期间上映的最大电影，嗯，是《辣妈辣妹2》。

The single biggest movie that was released while we were out Mhmm. Is Freakier Friday.

是的。

Yes.

所以我像个正常人一样，周四凌晨4点独自在电影院看了它。

So I saw it in a movie theater alone like a normal man at 04:00 on a Thursday.

我周二11点50分独自在电影院看的，结果来了个单身女郎派对。

I saw it in a movie theater alone at 11:50 on a Tuesday and a bachelorette party came in.

没开玩笑。是啊，十一点钟，我也不知道为什么。

No kidding. Yeah. At eleven I don't know why.

然后有些人看到一半就走了。非常令人困惑。好吧，也可能是生日派对，我不确定。

And then some of them left halfway through. It was very confusing. Okay. I I also maybe it was a birthday. I don't know.

她们都盛装打扮，有人戴了像头纱的东西。

They were dressed up. Someone was wearing something that looked like a veil.

我明白了。

I see.

我祝大家好运。

I wish I good luck to everyone.

这是《辣妈辣妹》的续集，而《辣妈辣妹》本身又是对原版电影《怪诞星期五》的重拍。主演包括杰米·李·柯蒂斯、琳赛·洛翰、马克·哈蒙、查德·迈克尔·墨瑞，他们悉数回归。

This is the sequel to Freaky Friday, which is itself a remake of the original film Freaky Friday. It stars Jamie Lee Curtis, Lindsay Lohan, Mark Harmon, Chad Michael Murray, all returning.

嗯。

Mhmm.

赵家玲、朱莉娅·巴特斯、索菲娅·哈蒙兹和马尼·哈辛托也加入了剧组。是的。在经历身份危机的二十年后，安娜的混合家庭面临新的挑战，安娜由琳赛·洛翰饰演。苔丝和安娜发现她们的过去可能在下一代身上重演。这就是这部电影的剧情。

Rosalyn Chao, and Julia Butters, Sofia Hammonds, and Manny Jacinto have joined the gang. Yeah. So two decades after an identity crisis, Anna's blended family faces new challenges, Anna is Lindsay Lohan. Tess and Anna discover their past may be repeating with the next generation. That's the plot of this movie.

嗯。你觉得怎么样？

Mhmm. What'd you think?

我度过了一段愉快的时光。我是说，这部片子我其实也可以在家看。你知道吗？它看起来并不... 我欣赏他们在洛杉矶实地取景拍摄。

I had a nice time. I mean, this again, I like I could have watched this at home. You know? It didn't it looked. I appreciated that they filmed on location in Los Angeles.

说到取景地，比如在洛杉矶各个地标景点排队时的场景，但整体带着迪士尼电影那种光鲜质感，倒也还不错。

Speaking of location including, you know, like at the line at, you know, various LA landmarks. But it has a glossy Disney movie quality that would have been fine.

这片子原本是给迪士尼+准备的吧？最初是这么计划的吗？还是一开始就打算上院线？我以为是部从流媒体转制过来的迪士尼电影。

It was originally slated for Disney plus. Was that the idea? Or was it always a theatrical film? I thought it was maybe a Disney plus film that they converted.

对，是转制的。不过至少视觉上保留了那种感觉。但你知道，我永远支持林赛·罗韩，嗯，永远无条件支持。

That they converted. But, you know, it has at least looks wise that feel. But, you know, I I root for Lindsay Lohan Mhmm. Always and forever.

没错，长岛女王嘛。

Yes. And The queen of Long Island.

我觉得她演得很搞笑，而且曼尼·贾希尼托那段辣身舞跳得真不错。

I thought she was very funny. And I liked that Manny Jacinto got to do dirty dancing.

曼尼·贾希尼托是英国人？

And Manny Jacinto is British?

不清楚，现在就谷歌一下。曼尼·贾希尼托

Don't know. Let's Google that right now. Manny Jacinto

据我所知，他是

As far as I know, he is

不是英国人。菲律宾裔加拿大人。

not British. Filipino Canadian.

好的。

Okay.

我们点击

Let's click

那不是英国人。

That is not British.

确实如此。但他有没有可能在某个地方长大？你知道的，因为这就像你上学的地方。

That's true. But did he possibly grow up somewhere? You know, because it's like where you go to school.

这是个有趣的现象。

This is an interesting phenomenon.

你知道的，他是在不列颠哥伦比亚省的里士满长大的。

You get the the, he was raised in Richmond, British Columbia.

好吧。那不算英国人。对。不列颠哥伦比亚省的人没有英国口音。我觉得这很有趣，因为当英国人被选来演美国人时，嗯。

Okay. That is not British. Yeah. They don't have English accents in British Columbia. I this is interesting because when British people are cast as Americans Mhmm.

或者澳大利亚人被选来演美国人，我们会说，哦，是啊。当然。说得通。

Or Australians cast as Americans, we say, oh, yeah. Sure. Makes sense.

没错。

Right.

很正常。有时候听起来有点滑稽。对吧。但我们总是愿意随大流。当我看这个的时候，是的。

Normal. Sometimes it sounds a little bit funny. Right. But we're always willing to go with the flow. When I was watching this Yes.

他在屏幕上出现时，我满脑子想的都是，梅·哈辛托是英国人吗？对吧。而且我我不知道什么是好的英国口音，什么不是。这个

All I could think when he was on screen is what is Mae Jacinto British? Right. And I I don't know what is and is not a good British accent. And this

不是你全部的体验吧？不。关于《星期五怪人》的体验？

not your entire experience No. Of of Freaker Friday?

我我我完全理解你对琳赛·罗翰的感受。你知道，我们同龄，我从小住的地方离她只有十分钟路程。我一直希望她能成功。她显然才华横溢，却在低谷中挣扎了十年。

I I I echo your feelings about Lindsay Lohan. You know, we're like the same age. We grew I grew up ten minutes from her. I have always wanted success for her. She obviously is like incredibly talented and then spent ten years in the wilderness.

人们真心为她担忧。但在这部电影里，仿佛什么都没发生过。是的，她在银幕上风采依旧——表演风格、幽默感、那种撑起整部电影的感染力。

People legit worried about her. In this movie, was like, oh, it's it's like nothing happened. Yes. She's like exactly the same on screen. Her performance style, her sense of humor, like how she can kinda hold a movie together.

是啊。

Yeah.

这很奇妙。她就这么回归了，一切安好，太棒了。

It's weird. It's weird that like she just came back and everything's fine. It's great.

真为她高兴。

That's great. I'm happy for her.

这是部有趣的电影。看的时候我就在想，要是我女儿大六岁就好了，带她看这个多有意思。以她的幽默感，绝对会爱上这部片子。不过作为四十岁男人独自观影确实有点怪

And this is a fun movie. This is a movie that I when I was watching it, I was like, I wish my daughter was six years older because this would be such a fun thing to take her to. This is exactly the kind of thing I know she's gonna love. Just know just knowing her sense of humor, she's gonna be all into this. It felt weird to be a 40 year old man sitting in a movie alone

看这个。

watching this.

我为朱莉娅·巴特斯感到高兴。是的。你知道吗？她正在开创自己的事业。

I I'm happy for Julia Butters. Yeah. You know? She's she's she's making a career.

我了解到饰演莉莉的索菲娅·哈蒙兹，也就是曼迪·雅辛托的英国女儿，实际上也是美国人。

So I've learned that Sofia Hammonds who plays Lily Yes. Mandy Jacinto's British daughter is also American.

这真是有点奇怪。

That's so that's weird.

根据维基百科的早年经历介绍，哈蒙兹出生于加利福尼亚州南帕萨迪纳，六岁时搬到了科罗拉多州的博尔德。

So an early life again, is Wikipedia. So Hammonds was born in South Pasadena, California and moved to Boulder, Colorado at the age of six.

好吧。他们没有英国口音。

K. They don't have British accents.

他们接受教育的环境并不存在英国口音。嗯。这是基于维基百科的最佳心理研究得出的结论。

They were not schooled in in a place where there are British accents. Uh-huh. This is for the best of mind re research on Wikipedia.

因为这部电影，你知道，剧情围绕着这个英国家庭离开祖国后，与琳赛·洛翰的家庭及其由朱莉娅·巴特斯饰演的女儿组成的混合家庭之间的紧张关系展开。对。这有点像那种‘我不想待在这里，我想念妈妈’的情绪。但是，

Because the the movie, you know, hinges on this tension between this British family that has left their home country and then has become a blended family with Lindsay Lohan's family and her daughter played by Julia Butters. Right. And it's sort of this idea of like, I don't wanna be here and I miss my mom. But like,

本可以设定在纽约。那样对剧情实质毫无影响。

it could have been New York. And that would have had absolutely no material plot difference.

或者你们本可以选英国演员。洛杉矶就有很多英国演员，根本不需要专门空运过来。

Or you could have cast British actors. And there are a lot of them in in in LA. It's not like they had to fly them in.

但我觉得曼尼·贾希尼托和索菲·哈蒙兹都演得很出色。

But I, you know, I thought Manny Jacinto and Sophie Hammonds were both They were very good.

他们确实不错。我不知道为什么对这个特别在意，可能因为我在《善地》里认识曼尼·贾希尼托，但他的口音完全不是这样。

They were good. I don't know why this I tripped on this. It's just because I'm like, I know Manny Jacinto from The Good Place, but that's not what he sounds like.

不过话说回来——剧透预警。

But but so then, here's another thing. Spoiler alert.

这有点蠢，我不是在抱怨剧透预警。

This is a dumb thing. I'm not complaining Spoiler about alert.

剧透预警：部分角色会互换身体。

Spoiler alert. Some the characters switch bodies.

是的，确实如此。预告片里透露了不少这样的镜头。

Yeah. They do. A number of them which is revealed in the trailer.

所以有段剧情是，杰米·李·柯蒂斯试图模仿假英国口音，对，扮演青少年角色。可能纯粹是为了喜剧效果吧，他们给她安排了很多搞笑桥段。比如当她端详自己现在这张脸的时候

So at some point, you have Jamie Lee Curtis trying to do like the fake British accent Yes. As the teenager, which so like, maybe they did it just for that comedy. They give her a lot of comedy. Once she is examining what her face looks like now

问你个问题。嗯，你对2025年的杰米·李·柯蒂斯怎么看？

Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Where are you at on Jamie Lee Curtis in 2025?

那个...其实我之前看过艾伦·麦凯的预告片

So, like, oh, I you know, I did see the Ellen McKay trailer before

嗯。

Mhmm.

就是这次放映前的

This this screening.

嗯哼。你觉得怎么样？

Mhmm. What'd you think of that?

我...好吧，我很紧张，约翰。我得告诉你，我很紧张。我也是。而我对杰米·李·柯蒂斯的看法是，这可能会成为我在2025年观看的三部她作品中，我最喜欢的表演。

And I I well, I'm nervous, John. I'll tell you. I'm nervous. I am as well. And I I what I think about Jamie Lee Curtis is that this might wind up being my favorite performance of the three Jamie Lee Curtis performances that I took in in 2025.

好吧。

Okay.

假设包括

Assuming Including the

你是说上一部《艳舞女郎》？

last show girl you're saying?

不，那是2024年的。我说的是《熊》。

No. That was 2024. I'm talking about the bear.

哦，《熊》。当然。那是电视剧。

Oh, the bear. Of course. Well, that's TV.

对你朋友来说。嗯，但你知道，这对她的转型至关重要。

For your friend. Well, you know, but it's been integral to her reinvention.

是的。是的。

Yep. Yep.

所以，你知道，她饰演一个有很多事情要处理的妈妈，下一代。而且

So, you know, she she plays a a mom with a lot going on, the next generation. And

你知道她还演什么吗？什么？播客主播。

You know what else she plays? What? Podcaster.

哦，没错。那很有趣。你知道，生活总会找上

Oh, that's right. That was funny. You know, life life comes for

我们。生活找上我们所有人。是的。她最近很活跃。很吵。她赢得过奥斯卡奖。

us Comes for us all. Yeah. She's just she's very present these days. Very noisy. She's won an Academy Award.

我听完了她在WTF上的整期节目。疯狂的旅程。

I listened to her entire episode of WTF. Wild ride.

是啊。

Yeah.

狂野

Wild

我是说，野生动植物。

I mean, wild life.

她是个很有个性的人。

She's a lot of person.

是啊。

Yeah.

简直是个性十足。嗯哼。我能感觉到马克·马龙和她共处一室九十分钟后感到不知所措。不过我一直挺喜欢她。年轻时，她是我见过最火辣的人之一。

Just a tremendous amount of person. Uh-huh. I could I could feel Mark Marron being overwhelmed by being in the room with her for ninety minutes. Anyway, I always liked her. In my youth, she's one of the hottest people I'd ever seen.

《疯狂星期五》，我推荐看看。我也推荐。挺有意思的。对。好吧。

Freakier Friday, I recommend it. I do too. It was fun. Yeah. Okay.

分道扬镳。没错。现在我对这部电影持两种看法。好吧。它是由米开朗基罗·科维诺和凯尔·马文共同编剧并执导的。

Splitsville. Yes. Now I'm I'm of two minds about this movie. Okay. So it's written and directed by Michelangelo Covino and Kyle Marvin.

几年前他们曾带着电影《攀登》上过这个节目，那是一部关于两个热爱骑行的好友的故事。对，算是带点存在主义色彩的剧情片，又有点喜剧元素。对，滑稽搞笑，但充满温情与深度。这部新片也延续了同样的风格。对吧？

They were on this show some years ago for their film, The Climb, which was about two buddies who are into cycling Yeah. Who it's sort of a existential drama, sort of a comedy Right. Slapstick, but with a lot of heart and depth. This movie very much in the same vein. Right?

嗯。非常深入地探讨了男性气质的失败，但同时也是一部关于男人们如何骗美女上钩的搞笑电影。没错。这次他们还升级了阵容，请来了达科塔·约翰逊和艾德里亚·阿罗纳。

Mhmm. Very much an exploration of failed masculinity, but also like a funny movie about guys who trick hot women into being with them. Yeah. In this case, they have leveled up to cast Dakota Johnson and Adria Aronan.

是啊。

Yeah.

说到美女，这两位可是万里挑一的极品。确实。而这两个男主看起来是挺讨喜的家伙。对，又风趣又有才华。嗯。但估计追不到这两位女神。

Who are speaking of hot women, like, in a in a very rare air. They are. And these guys who seem like lovely guys Yeah. And very funny and talented Mhmm. Probably not bagging these two ladies.

没错。而这正是电影的笑点所在。确实如此。

Right. And that is kind of part of the joke of the movie. It is.

但并没有明说。但确实如此。可又好像不是。不过我们可以待会再讨论

But not not explicitly. But it is. But like, it isn't. But We can come back

这个话题，如果你想的话。

to that if you want.

这部电影让我喜欢的一点是，虽然你会不断疑惑‘这里到底发生了什么’，但并非那种‘故事讲什么’或‘什么时候结束，我好无聊’的困惑。而是因为你足够投入角色，会思考‘为什么你要做出这些选择？’

The the movie one of the things that I like about this that I liked about this movie, which I enjoyed is like, you are asking like what is going on here a lot and not in the him sense of like, what like what is the story and like when when is this going to be over because I'm I'm bored. But everything you are involved enough in the characters to be like, okay, but like, why are you making these choices?

嗯。

Mhmm.

你看，重点就在这里——这不是浪漫喜剧，但它确实在戏仿这个类型。

Which is, you know, the point this is it's not a romantic comedy, but it is sort of it's it is riffing on the genre.

确实。我认为这是对长期关系的探索，探讨它们为何成功或失败。

Yeah. For sure. I think it's an exploration of long term relationships and why they do or don't work.

对，对。

Yeah. Yeah.

就像我们那些情侣朋友...我们有很多情侣朋友，那种微妙氛围你懂的。特别是当有人爱上朋友配偶时，随之而来的所有尴尬。

Yeah. You know, like, couple friends where we have couple friends. You know what We have lot lot of couple friends and, like, the weird energy of couple friends, you know, especially in this case, like, when people are, like, in love with their other friend's spouse and all the awkwardness that comes with that.

没错，没错。

Right. Right.

没错。电影中有很多元素感觉非常原始和自然。

Right. There's a lot of stuff in the movie that feels very, like, raw and natural.

是的。

Yes.

而这正是电影制作的精髓所在，对吧？这些家伙真的是很棒的制片人，他们让这个世界感觉非常触手可及。对，就像是为一部非常荒诞的电影创造了一个现实主义的背景。

And that's, like, amounts to the filmmaking. Right? Like these guys are really good filmmakers and they make this feel like a very, tactile world. Right. Like a realistic setting for a for a very silly movie.

完全正确。所以当角色或情境开始升温时——确实如此——我要称赞这部电影，我以为它已经结束了大概五次，因为他们会说，‘好了，这个社会实验到此为止。’然后他们又说，‘不不不。’

Exactly. And so then when either the characters or the situation gets like the heat gets turned on, which it does. And and I I say this this to the film's credit that I thought it was over like five different times because they're like, okay. So now we've concluded this social experiment. And they're like, no, no, no.

‘我们还有更多。’然后你们两个都像在说，‘等等，什么？’但同时我也想知道接下来会发生什么。

We have more. And you're both like, wait, like what? But also I would like to know what happens.

是啊，是啊。

Yeah. Yeah.

所以，由达科塔·约翰逊和阿德里娅·阿霍纳主演这一点，本身就带来了另一种效果，就像在说，‘好吧，但你们俩真的太迷人了，我们到底在干什么？’

So so the fact that it is Dakota Johnson and Adria Arjona in this lends itself to like, it is another thing of like, okay, but you guys are like really hot. So what what are we doing

这几乎让人分心。是的。而且它是故意让人分心的。就像他们知道自己在做什么。是的。

It's almost distracting. Yeah. And it's it's distracting on purpose. Like they know what they're doing. Yeah.

对吧？对我来说确实如此，我确信他们讨论过这个问题。我没有和这部电影的家伙们聊过，因为我们在度假。但《鲍勃、卡罗尔、特德和爱丽丝》那部电影。是的。

Right? It is it is to me, it is I'm sure that they have talked about this. I haven't I didn't talk to the guys for this movie because we were on vacation. But Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. Yeah.

那部电影。你知道，罗伯特·卡尔普和艾丽·库尔。他们算是挺帅的，但比不上娜塔莉·伍德和黛安·坎农。对吧。你懂我意思吗？

That movie. You know, Robert Culp and and Ellie Cool. They're like handsome enough guys, but they're not Natalie Wood and Diane Cannon. Right. You know?

你看那部电影时甚至会想，哇。这些美女配这些男人，虽然他们长得不错，但...是的。这总有点让人分心。但电影讲的就是这个，显然，比如夫妻交换，对吧。

And you're like, even watching that movie, you're like, wow. These are some really beautiful women with these guys who are like, you know, they're good looking guys. But Yeah. This is a little like always the distracting. But that same thing that movie is about, obviously, like, couple swapping and Right.

朋友间的吸引力、社会规范与关系的复杂性，都是同样的主题。这部电影比那部更傻气，在社会文化层面可能表达得更少。

And attraction amongst friends and the complexity of social norms and relationships, all the same stuff. This movie is even sillier than that one and probably has like a little bit less to say socioculturally.

没错。

Right.

但它真的很有趣，也很棒。而且...

But it's it's really fun and it's good. And And

它还有那些小细节观察和俏皮话，以及那些场景设置。嗯，他们安排的各种实验都很有趣，观察得很到位。你知道，其中有一段关于爱彼迎的情节特别精彩。这些内容虽然不是什么惊天动地的创新，但做得很好，而且很幽默。

it has also like, the the little observations and the like the one liners and like the the settings Mhmm. That they put, you know, the the various experiments are all like very funny, well observed. You know, there's like a very good Airbnb plot line at one point. You know, it's it's kind of like, oh, the things that you you recognize and are not like, you know, splitting the atom but are well done. And like and funny.

还有个特别好笑的部分——我们私下聊过私立学校和公立学校。这部电影里关于私立学校的描写非常真实，很有共鸣。我推荐这部电影，明天就能在视频点播上看了。

Another very funny, we were talking private schools and public schools offline. There's some the whole private school thing here that is very real, you know, very recognizable. I recommend this movie. It's on VOD tomorrow.

好的。

Okay.

这样当初没能在上映城市看到的人可以补看，毕竟它当初只是半全国上映。不过

People So can can watch it if it didn't come to their city when it came out because it got, you know, only semi wide release. But

是啊，特别搞笑。

Yeah. Very funny.

对。好的，说说《巨作》。其实你在威尼斯的时候，我们已经在电影节特辑里简单聊过这部片子了。

Yeah. Okay. Megadoc. Yeah. Now we talked about Megadoc a little bit when you got back, when you were still in Venice actually on our festival episode.

这是迈克·菲吉斯的新纪录片，全程记录弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉拍摄《大都会》的过程。

This is the new documentary from Mike Figgis that is all about the making of Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis.

嗯。差不多一年前发布的。我觉得，可能吧。两周

Mhmm. Was released almost one year ago. I like, I think probably Yeah. Two weeks

是的。可能是十一月。

Yeah. It might have been November.

不，不。不是那时候，因为那是在Sai出生之前，而Sai都快一岁了。那是我最后一期播客。

No. No. It wasn't because it was before Sai was born and Sai's almost won. And that that was my last podcast.

是九月。是在秋季电影节之后，因为它在戛纳首映。

It was September. It was post post fall festivals because it premiered at Cannes.

对。也许不是巧合。我们当时

Yeah. Maybe not accidental. We were

对《大都会》的讨论和我们期望的相差甚远。我们本想喜欢它，结果却感到困惑。我至今还没重温过。后来我通过朋友Alex Ross Perry从澳大利亚搞到了蓝光碟。

mixed down on Megalopolis as much as we wanted Yeah. To love that We were we were befuddled. I I have yet to return to it. I have since acquired a Blu ray copy Oh. From Australia courtesy of our friend Alex Ross Perry

好的。

Okay.

谁在澳大利亚给我带了一个回来，这真是

Who was in Australia and got me one, which is a very

非常友善的举动。那太好了。

kind act. That is very nice.

所以科波拉的作品架就完整了，除了电影《杰克》。我没有《杰克》。

So the the Coppola shelf is complete except for the film Jack. I don't own Jack.

好的。是什么阻碍了你？

Okay. Why what's holding you back?

没有蓝光版。

No Blu ray.

哦，好吧。我有

Oh, okay. I own

其他所有电影的蓝光版。

all the other films on Blu ray.

哦，那么你认为《杰克》会有蓝光版发行吗？

Oh, and so it's like a do you think that there will be a a Blu ray of Jack released?

我是说，没有充分的理由发行蓝光版。这不是一部真正受人喜爱的电影。好吧。但我还是想收藏它放在我的架子上。总之，我想回到《大都会》的话题。

I mean, there's not a good reason to release it on Blu ray. It's not a film anybody really likes. Okay. But I'd like to own it just for my shelf. Anyhow, Megalopolis, I'd like to return to it.

是的。这是一部电影，了解自己的话，我第二次看时会为它找无数借口。哦，实际上这个。哦，实际上那个。因为这是我喜欢做的事。

Yeah. It's a it's the movie that knowing myself, I'll find a million excuses for it the second time I watch it. Oh, actually this. Oh, actually that. Because that is something I like to do.

而且我认为《大都会纪录片》是一部绝佳的配套作品。弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉邀请迈克·菲格斯拍摄这部纪录片，这既是惊人的傲慢之举，但也算是对电影史的一份礼物吧。

And I think Megadoc is an incredible companion piece. And, you know, Francis Ford Coppola invites Mike Figus to make this documentary, which is, you know, just an incredible act of hubris, but also a gift to filmmaking history, I guess.

因为它既是傲慢又是谦卑。对吧？这两者其实在激烈碰撞，因为他不仅在财务上冒了很大风险，个人层面也是——以80岁高龄展示自己主导这个庞大项目，他对自己的愿景非常自信。

Because It's it's it's hubris and humility. Right? It's like they're they're really in collision with each other because he's risking a lot, not just financially, but personally by showing himself, you know, at 80 years old making this huge project and his he's very confident in his vision.

而且维加斯有很多拍摄素材。

And Vegas has a lot of access.

确实如此。

He does.

这确实揭示了大量冲突，坦率地说，你会看到所有这些人在其中——尤其是弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉——试图弄清楚这部电影是什么、他们想如何制作、它应该呈现什么样子，以及他如何将脑海中酝酿了四五十年的构想传达给片场所有人，最终传递给全世界观看这部电影的观众。是的，看完这部纪录片后，我对自己的理解困境感觉好多了。甚至我觉得，如果现在看完《大都会秘辛》再去看《大都会》，至少能更明白该关注什么。所以在某种程度上，这确实是绝佳的指南，也是科波拉的天才之举——找一位真正的电影人来制作这部纪录片，或许能帮助像我这样的人理解到底发生了什么。

And is there for a lot of the conflicts and and frankly, just a lot of you watch all of these people and primarily among them Francis Ford Coppola trying to figure out what this movie is and how they want to make it and what it's supposed to look like and how is he going to communicate what's been in his head for forty or fifty years to everyone on set and then to everyone like, know, in the world who's going to see the film. Yeah. And I felt better about my struggle to understand it watching this. And and and it almost I think if I watched Megalopolis now having seen Megadoc, I would at least understand and know what to look for a bit more. And so in some ways it is a great guide and it is, you know, a stroke of genius by Coppola to have this made and made with a real filmmaker so that, you know, maybe it can help some people like on the journey to understand what the hell is going on.

这可能是你能看到的最真实的幕后记录，因为它不仅持续展现冲突，更毫不避讳失败。是的，对我个人而言，这部电影有两点特别值得推荐：一是关于美术设计和视觉效果的危机，这类内容在同类纪录片中极其罕见。科波拉的愿景如此大胆具体却又难以实现——

It's as raw a making of as you will ever see in part because it consistently shows not just conflict but failure. Yeah. And the there are two things that I think really recommend the movie for me personally. One is this kind of crisis over the production design and visual effects, which you just never see in a movie like this. And this is something like, Coppola's vision was so bold and specific, but unachievable Yeah.

这当然是他整个职业生涯的标志性特征。他总在追求尚未被开发的东西，因此总试图在实景拍摄中实现不可能的效果。我们看到一位非常资深的美术指导离开项目——无论是辞职还是被解雇，细节并不明确。

Which is, of course, like a signature of his entire career. He's always reaching for something that we have not yet developed. And so he's always trying to put things in his movies in physical production that can't be accomplished. And we watch a production designer, a very accomplished production designer, leave this project, quit, get fired, whatever. It's unclear.

但根本原因是她认为'这不是行业常规做法'，她对这种创作方式感到不安。她希望更依赖视觉特效，而科波拉坚持实景拍摄。

But because she's just like, this is not how we do this. I don't feel comfortable pursuing it in this way. She wanted a deeper reliance on visual effects. Coppola did not. He wanted things in in camera.

至少对我个人而言，这些幕后角力极其迷人。第二点则是希亚·拉博夫——这位过去五到十年深陷丑闻漩涡的争议人物。

And that is that stuff is fascinating for at least for me personally. And then the second thing is Shia LaBeouf, very controversial person, person who's been at the center of a lot of scandal in the last five or ten years.

他在纪录片中对此有相当篇幅的自我剖析。

Which he acknowledges at, you know, at length in the film.

非常坦诚。显然这是个问题缠身却努力自我救赎的人，同时又是天赋异禀的演员。没错，绝对的天才级表演者。

Very much. Clearly someone who's got a lot of problems and is trying to work through them. Wildly gifted actor. Yeah. Wildly gifted.

即便在《大都会》片场，他也时常神出鬼没，但体内仿佛蕴藏着闪电能量。你会看到他不断在现场挑战科波拉，一遍又一遍。一方面他简直烦人得要命，确实如此。他把弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉惹得暴跳如雷。

And even in Megalopolis, he's kind of all over the place at times, but he's just got a lightning bolt inside of him. You see him in on set challenging Coppola over and over and over again. And on the one hand, he's so goddamn annoying. Yeah. And he's pissing Francis Ford Coppola off so much.

你甚至常常搞不清沙亚究竟想要什么。但由于科波拉对这部电影根本掌控不力，没错。就像沙亚发现了弱点并持续攻击。他看起来像个粗鲁的混蛋，你会想：这位80岁的天才可是拍过《教父》的人啊。但同时你又会觉得——

And you can't always figure out even specifically what it is that Shaya wants. However, because Coppola has doesn't really have his arms around this movie Yeah. It's like Shaya low has located a vulnerability and is like attacking it. And he seems like a rude dick, and you're like, this guy's 80 years old and is a genius and he made the godfather. But also you're like,

是啊，这里面确实有些观点正在被传达出来。

yeah, this something is Points are being made.

没错，完全正确。而且这又是你前所未见的场景，从未见过这种场面。

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And again, something you just never ever seen. Never like this.

而且你知道，这部纪录片确实捕捉到了各种机缘巧合的瞬间，只有这种级别的跟拍才能获得。正如你指出的，由于菲格斯是经验丰富的电影人，他会在某些时刻将自己融入纪录片——通常这可是红色警报般的灾难信号。但通过这种方式，他实际上是在补充现场的第一手视角。我的意思是，他本质上是在做新闻纪实。

And, you know, and it does have just like all like the stray moments of serendipity like that that you catch in a documentary with with this level of access. And as you pointed out that, because Figus is such an experienced filmmaker, he puts himself into the documentary at some point, which is usually like, you know, red alert disaster sign. But in this way, he is adding like his own perspective on the ground. He mean, he's he's base he's doing journalism.

完全同意。这就像是日记体新闻报道，他把镜头转向自己说：好吧，这就是我的处境，我正在思考电影接下来的走向——这种做法其实相当有趣。

Totally. And It's like Dear Diary journalism where he's turning the camera on himself and saying like, okay, here's where I'm at. I'm trying to figure out where to go from here in the movie, which is actually quite interesting.

但你能看到达斯汀·霍夫曼的精彩瞬间，也能看到比如娜塔莉·伊曼纽尔不愿被拍到进食的片段——我完全理解。嗯。不过现在她已经在镜头前完成了味觉测试，但除此之外...她在纪录片里几乎就像隐形人。

But you get like some amazing Dustin Hoffman moments. You get, you know, bits like Natalie Emmanuel didn't wanna be filmed eating, which I I get it. Mhmm. But having now done a taste test on camera, but also then that's like the only thing. She is like otherwise absent from the doc.

而且我，你知道，我并不认为她在《大都会》中的表演奏效了。我当时就觉得，哦，你能实时看到这一切如何拼凑起来。所以我非常喜欢这部电影。我觉得任何听到这期节目这里的人都会爱上《机械医生》。

And and I, you know, I I didn't think her performance worked in Megalopolis. And I was like, oh, you know, you can see this all coming together in real time. So I I loved this movie. I think anyone who has listened this far into this episode of the show will love Mechadoc.

我完全同意。还有一点特别酷的是，你可能在威尼斯时提到过，就是展示了这部电影之前的版本。是的，科波拉曾试图筹备的那个版本。对，另一个由瑞恩·高斯林饰演希亚·拉博夫角色的版本，那本来会非常迷人且截然不同。

I totally agree. There's one other thing that is very cool about it, which you might have mentioned when you were in Venice was showing the previous iterations of this film that Yes. Coppola was trying to mount. Yeah. Another version of the movie where Ryan Gosling was portraying the Shia LaBeouf character, which would have been so fascinating and so different.

而且还有一系列版本。有个詹姆斯·弗兰科的版本对吧？比如，其他还有哪些版本？

And there are there are series of it. There's a James Franco version. Right? Like, what were the other what were the other versions?

我觉得对杜妮娅·马德森来说

I I think for Dunia Madsen is

杜妮娅·马德森？是的。对。对。她当时是饰演娜塔莉·伊曼纽尔那个角色吗？

Dunia Madsen? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And she was in was she in the Natalie the Natalie Emmanuel role?

不。她演的是奥布瑞·普拉扎那个角色。

No. She was in the Aubrey Plaza role.

是的。对。对。奥布瑞·普拉扎的表现简直就是一场奥布瑞式的独特体验

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What are Aubrey Plaza is also just it's an Aubrey Plaza experience in

这段历史。挺有趣的。是啊。

the history. Funny. Yeah.

那些某种程度上比

Those are kind of better than

高斯林的作品

The Gosling stuff

太棒了。棒极了。

is awesome. Awesome.

如果能看到他在那个时期——特别是他职业生涯的那个阶段——融入那部电影，那真的会非常非常酷。有点像，那是什么时候来着？《半个尼尔森》还是《数字谋杀案》？

It would it that would have been really, really cool to see him plugged into that movie at that especially at that time of his career. It's kind of like, when is that? Like, half Nelson murder by numbers?

我想是的。应该是02年左右吧。

I think so. I think it's early two Yeah.

对。那时候，他作为演员真是充满活力。

Yeah. Like, in that time, he was such a live wire as an actor.

是的。

Yeah.

总之，我完全同意你的看法。如果你热爱电影并且对幕后制作感兴趣，这部电影绝对是顶尖水平。没错，《周四谋杀俱乐部》。

Anyway, I totally agree with you. If you love movies and you're interested in behind the scenes movies, this is as cool as they get. Yeah. Thursday Murder Club.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我还没看过这部电影。是的。

I haven't seen this movie. Yes.

我看过了。好的。我还读过原著系列的每一部作品。现在我正在读理查德·奥斯曼的新书《周四谋杀俱乐部》第三十部。我觉得它大概...

I have seen it. Okay. I've also read every installment of the series on which it is based. I'm reading the new Richard Osman 30 Thursday Murder Club book right now. I think it's probably

早知道的话我肯定会看这部

I would have watched this if I knew this

理查德·奥斯曼在英国是个多面手，既是演员、电视名人，又是作家，他大概五六年前开始写这个系列。这些书通常被归类为舒适推理小说，讲的是一群英国养老院的退休老人，因为喜欢破案（最初是冷案后来变成谋杀案）而成为朋友。虽然听起来有点荒诞，确实如此，但他文笔非常出色。

So was such a thing for Richard Osman is a UK, I mean, like actor, TV personality, writer, and he started writing these books probably like five or six years ago. And they are typically, you know, they're like, you would call them cozy mysteries. And it is about a group of retirees at a retirement home in The UK, who become friends because they like solving initially cold cases and then murders. Okay. And it's if that sounds, you know, ridiculous and it kind of is, but he writes he's a great writer.

他非常风趣。如果你是个亲英派，看过《唐顿庄园》每一集还读过谋杀悬疑小说，他的作品有种既温馨舒适又妙趣横生的特质。我觉得他写老年人时笔触充满深情，你知道的，仿佛在说70岁甚至80岁后人生依然精彩。这些书完成度极高，我强烈推荐——如果这符合你口味的话。

He's very funny. If you are like an Anglophile, if you've seen every episode of Downton Abbey and also read Murder Mysteries, there is something very, you know, cozy comforting, but also like amusing about them. I think he writes he just like writes about old people like really like lovingly and like the, you know, like there's there's life to live after 70 or even 80. And it's so I the books are are very well done. I recommend them If that's your bag.

电影由海伦·米伦、皮尔斯·布鲁斯南、本·金斯利和《BJ单身日记》里的尤娜·阿尔康伯里饰演者西莉亚·伊姆瑞主演。天啊，再加上一众黄金配角阵容。但我还是失望了，真见鬼。

The movie stars Helen Mirren, Pierce Brosnan, Ben Kingsley, and Celia Emery aka Una Alconbury from the Bridget Jones movies. Oh. And, you know, and then just a murderer's row of supporting cast. I was disappointed. Damn.

我是说，问题在于...

I mean, here's the thing.

导演是克里斯·哥伦布。

Directed by Chris Columbus.

导演是克里斯·哥伦布。这部电影存在两个问题：首先它作为电影更侧重于解谜过程，而非原著中四位主角的刻画。因此丢失了大量伙伴间的化学反应和魅力精髓——尽管演员们都很迷人。我个人认为皮尔斯·布鲁斯南选角失误，他演个前工会小头目实在...

Directed by Chris Columbus. There there were two things here, which is it it just becomes more because it's a movie. It becomes more of a like solving a mystery as opposed to, you know, about these four people. And it so you you lose like a lot of the buddy, the chemistry, and and like in the charm, essentially, even though all of those people are charming. I would argue that Pierce Brosnan is miscast as a, like former, like, minor strike, like, you know, union leader.

太过风度翩翩了。

Little too dashing.

不过...倒也还行。

But but that's okay.

我刚得知他已经72岁了。所以他的年龄是合适的。

I've just learned he's 72 though. So he is age appropriate.

是啊。每个人的年龄都合适。海伦·米伦饰演的伊丽莎白，像是前军情五处或六处的间谍，见识过风浪。但我不确定。另外，不是要反复强调我的观点，但退休公寓里的那些公寓看起来都很不错。

Yeah. Everyone's age appropriate. Helen Mirren is playing Elizabeth who's like the ex MI five or MI six spy who saw things. But I don't know. The other thing and not to, you know, not to harp on my location point, but they they're all very nice apartments at the retirement home.

我得说这部剧可能对我们未来在养老院的生活描绘得过于美好了，因为那里看起来生活真的很棒。但这些都是布景，你知道，我原本期待更像《小镇疑云》那样，或者需要实地取景。既然我选择看这部英国剧，总得有点乡村风情，得去些地方，但它太依赖棚拍了。这部分让我有些失望。

I will say that this series like is maybe like over promising on what awaits all of us at retirement homes because it seems like life's really great. But it's all sets and, you know, I like I expect a little like Broadchurch or, you know, like you gotta be on location. Like, I'm I'm if I'm signing up for this British thing, you gotta be in the countryside a little. You gotta go places, and it's very on set. So that was the other part that was disappointing to me.

嗯。

Yeah.

我想我们得提一下这是在Netflix上播的。对吧？所以可能这就是原因。嗯。

I guess we should say this is on Netflix. Right? So Yeah. Maybe that's why. Yeah.

真抱歉，我完全不知道你是这部剧的超级粉丝。

I'm sorry for you. I didn't had no idea you were such a big fan of this this series.

是啊。他们每年都会给我寄样片。谢谢你，克里斯蒂娜。不，我真的很喜欢它们。

Yeah. They send me the galleys every year. Thank you, Christina. No. I've I love them.

我带着这本书就像带它去欧洲一样，这样我就能像在画廊里那样阅读它。

Carried this like I carried this to Europe so that I could read it like the gallery.

是为了电影吗？

For the movie?

不是，只是因为我想要读这本书。

No. Just because I wanted to read the book.

好的，很棒。

K. Great.

我非常喜欢这些书。

I like these books a lot.

好吧，我永远不会看这个。

Okay. I'll never watch this.

接下来我要读的是伊恩·麦基翁的新小说。听说这是他二十五年来第一次写出了一本好书。

Next up for me is the new Ian McKeown novel. I heard that he wrote a good book for the first time in twenty five years.

《赎罪》是他最后一部佳作吗？

Was Atonement his last good book?

我不太记得了，比如《星期六》那些书是什么时候出版的。不过确实，已经过去二十年了。

I don't remember, like, when Saturday and all of those came out. But, yeah, it's it's it's been twenty years.

好吧。

Okay.

《赎罪》。

Atonement.

节目第二小时对伊恩·麦克尤恩开火了

Shots fired at Ian McCure in hour two of the

大画面。显然它又变好看了，所以我准备好了。

big picture. Apparently, it's good again, so I'm ready.

好吧。你知道吗？你什么时候加入杜阿·利帕的读书会？

Okay. You know? When are you, joining Dua Lipa's book club?

只要她愿意接受我。杜阿·利帕，三十岁生日快乐。你看起来棒极了。我很想邀请你的一位足疗师表演者

Whenever she will have me. Happy thirtieth birthday, Dua Lipa. You look great. I would love to have one of your podiatrist performers

来这个

to this

播客。还记得有一次杜阿·利帕转发的内容吗？那像是某个Spotify播客的东西。所以就像是她的播客和我们的播客出现在同一页面。然后我们就出现在了杜阿·利帕的Instagram上。

podcast. You remember one time when Dua Lipa reblogged something? It was like some Spotify podcasts thing. And so it was like her podcast and our podcast were on the same page. And so we were on Dua Lipa's Instagram.

是的。

Yes.

而我

And that I

连一首杜阿·利帕的歌都说不出来。

can't name one Dua Lipa song.

你当然可以。她应该凭借《彻夜共舞》获得奥斯卡奖。哦，没错。杜阿·利帕该拿个奥斯卡。好吧。

Sure you can. She should be an Oscar winner for Dance the Night Away. Oh, yeah. Dua Lipa should have an Oscar. Okay.

那是她写的吗？

That's Did she write that?

当然是和马克·容森一起写的。

With Mark Ronson, of course.

她有创作署名吗？

Does she have a writing credit?

我想是的。

I think so.

好吧。我不是在质疑

Okay. I'm not I'm not questioning

没必要用那种语气说话。行吗？

don't need to say it like that. Okay?

我只是问问。

I'm just asking.

她有个读书俱乐部。她刚在麦迪逊广场花园连续四晚的演出门票售罄。她还获得了普拉提的赞助。

She's got a book club. She just sold out Madison Square Garden for four nights. She has a Pilates sponsorship

嗯。

Mhmm.

这样你就能在家里放一台普拉提器械了。

Where you can have a reformer at home.

我只是想和你分享这个。是的。杜阿·利帕不会和你上床的。是的。所以你可以收敛一点。

I I just wanna share this with you. Yeah. Dua Lipa is not going to fuck you. Yeah. So you can just tone it down.

她做得很好。她真的，真的在维护我。美丽。关心。是的。

She's doing great. She's really, really defending her me. Beautiful. Care. Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

我只是，你知道吗？她很美。当然。当然。而且她应该拿个奥斯卡奖。

I just you know? She's beautiful. Of course. Of course. And and she should have an Oscar.

K。我们刚才为什么在讨论她？

K. And why were we talking about her?

因为她有个读书会。我是说，她有个...你懂我意思吧？她整个播客都在搞这个。

Because she has a book club. I was you know, she has you know what I'm saying? Her whole podcast.