"这是真的吗？" NFL疑问与夏季八卦——与Dianna Russini一起

本期节目由

This episode is brought to

Michelob Ultra赞助。炎炎夏日开一瓶冰镇啤酒是最棒的享受，但若是在一场友好小竞赛后畅饮，感觉会更美妙。有值得角逐的奖品总是更尽兴。而McLeod Bultrace优质淡啤就是绝佳奖励——我愿为它打满整个夏季网球，毕竟网球是正经运动，不像匹克球。

you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it, like in a friendly little competition. It's always better when when there's something worth playing for. And McLeod Bultrace, Superior Light beer is a pretty great prize. I would I mean, I would be all tennis for McLeod Bultrace because that's what I do all summer because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball.

无论是网球双打单打，让我们为Ultra而战。今夏登陆doordash.com囤满Michelob Ultra。理性饮酒©2025，安海斯-布希Michelob Ultra淡啤，密苏里州圣路易斯市。

So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever, let's play for an ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this summer at doordash.com. Enjoy responsibly copyright 2025, Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

本期节目由

This episode is brought to

Wayfair赞助。家不仅是空间，更是自我表达的舞台。比如我们都有专属观赛区对吧？

you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like, we've all got our game day set up. Right?

我注重观赛体验与待客之道，所以将沙发调到最佳观赏位，庭院烧烤架专为中场休息或赛后聚会准备。无论你钟情何种风格，Wayfair都是值得信赖的一站式家居平台。从必需品、收纳方案到装饰品应有尽有，还能获取空间灵感与精选套装，更享每日优惠。登录wayfair.com选购全屋家居，享受免费便捷配送服务。

I'm all about the viewing experience and the entertaining, so I got my sofa in optimum viewing position, and I got my grill and patio set up for halftime or after the game. Whatever your vibe, Wayfair is the trusted destination for all things home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor, and more all in one place. Get inspired with room ideas and curated collections, all with everyday ways to save. Shop everything home at wayfair.com with free and easy delivery straight to your door.

就是wayfair.com——万千风格，成就每个家。《比尔·西蒙斯播客》由Ringer播客网络呈现，每周一更新《经典重温》特别企划。本月聚焦单名电影系列，下期将解读《机械战警》。

That is wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find a new episode of the rewatchables coming on Monday. We're doing one name movie month, and we're doing Robocop on Monday. It is me.

我是凯尔·勃兰特。这次重温让我收获颇丰，希望你们也能有所得。欢迎关注Ringer电影YouTube频道，持续锁定单名电影月。稍后戴安娜·罗西尼将带来NFL话题。

It is Kyle Brandt. I really, really enjoyed revisiting this movie, and, I learned some stuff. Hopefully, you'll learn some stuff too. You can follow it on the Ringer movies YouTube channel and stay tuned for the rest of One Name Movie Month. So Diana Rossini is coming out a little bit to talk about NFL.

有些夏日闲谈想快速分享——甚至不值得单独成段，但过去几天确实让我忍俊不禁。其一是洋基队本周遭马林鱼队横扫，我的洋基球迷朋友都疯了。上周杰克还在节目里暴怒，结果情况更糟：交易截止日他们补强牛棚后，反被马林鱼打得落花流水。

There's some lazy summer stuff I just wanted to go over really fast. Nothing even worthy of a full segment, but just stuff that I was amused by over the last couple days. Number one is the Yankees who got swept by Miami this week. All my Yankee fan friends are going bonkers. We had Jack O' on last week going nuts about it, and it somehow gotten even worse because they made all these trade deadline moves, beefed up their bullpen, and then Miami kicked their butt.

细想之下，我反而担心他们会解雇亚伦·布恩——可我真心希望洋基用长约高薪留住他，让布恩与凯许曼搭档到2030年。若在2003年11月美联决赛G7惨败后告诉我：22年后的2025年，红袜会夺四冠而我依然讨厌其老板；亚伦·布恩会像我们安插的卧底般搞垮洋基——我绝不会相信。但这就是洋基的现状。

I was thinking about it. I'm actually worried that they're going to fire Aaron Boone now, and I don't want them to fire him. I actually want them to extend him and give him more money in longer years, but I want them to keep Boone and Cashman for the rest of the decade. And if you told me in November 2003, right, after the devastating ALCS game seven loss, that in 02/2025, twenty two years later, less than twenty two years later, that the Red Sox will win four world series, that I'd somehow still not like the Red Sox owners even after four world series, and that Aaron Boone felt like we had installed a mole to ruin the Yankees. I probably wouldn't have believed any of that, but that's where we are with the Yankees.

I hope they continue to lose. I think they're twenty one and twenty eight in their last 49. It's it's it's bad. I love it. I love it.

I hope they continue to lose. I think they're twenty one and twenty eight in their last 49. It's it's it's bad. I love it. I love it.

Between that and the Red Sox punted on the trade deadline and somehow swept the Astros, which was great. It's not like the movie Major League because they've spent money in the team, but it's just funny that they needed one more starter. The owners were like, whatever. And then they ripped through the Astros, so great times. And Roman Anthony got a walk off, the Roman Empire.

Between that and the Red Sox punted on the trade deadline and somehow swept the Astros, which was great. It's not like the movie Major League because they've spent money in the team, but it's just funny that they needed one more starter. The owners were like, whatever. And then they ripped through the Astros, so great times. And Roman Anthony got a walk off, the Roman Empire.

Anyway, that's one thing. I was reading this week because I was debating whether it was worth doing a segment on ESPN buying the NFL Network and all the NFL media stuff, and they're getting the red zone. Are they gonna screw up the red zone? I don't understand this deal, and I texted and asked a few people, and nobody seems to understand the deal. I guess they just acquired some assets.

Anyway, that's one thing. I was reading this week because I was debating whether it was worth doing a segment on ESPN buying the NFL Network and all the NFL media stuff, and they're getting the red zone. Are they gonna screw up the red zone? I don't understand this deal, and I texted and asked a few people, and nobody seems to understand the deal. I guess they just acquired some assets.

We'll see what they do. At one point, somebody mentioned that it's gonna be like their relationship with the SEC network, this network that lives on its own, but they're gonna beef it up with more talent. And I'm thinking like, the NFL network is gonna be like the SEC network. How does that make sense? So I don't understand a single piece of it.

We'll see what they do. At one point, somebody mentioned that it's gonna be like their relationship with the SEC network, this network that lives on its own, but they're gonna beef it up with more talent. And I'm thinking like, the NFL network is gonna be like the SEC network. How does that make sense? So I don't understand a single piece of it.

The NFL network was trying to or the NFL was trying to get out of the NFL network for a while. And, and now this feels like you give us stuff, we'll give you stuff, but nobody's that excited about it. I don't get it. Hopefully, there's a piece in the next seventy two hours that will understand what this is. Like, what's gonna happen to the NFL Network shows?

The NFL network was trying to or the NFL was trying to get out of the NFL network for a while. And, and now this feels like you give us stuff, we'll give you stuff, but nobody's that excited about it. I don't get it. Hopefully, there's a piece in the next seventy two hours that will understand what this is. Like, what's gonna happen to the NFL Network shows?

Is the red zone gonna have commercials? Are you only gonna be able to get it on that ESPN flagship, whatever the f that thing is called? I just feels like kind of an important sports story. The NFL seasons in in five weeks Five weeks, six weeks, whatever it is. I'd kinda like to know what's happening.

Is the red zone gonna have commercials? Are you only gonna be able to get it on that ESPN flagship, whatever the f that thing is called? I just feels like kind of an important sports story. The NFL seasons in in five weeks Five weeks, six weeks, whatever it is. I'd kinda like to know what's happening.

So somebody figure out how to report this in a way that I understand all the basics. Next one, Fantastic Four. So it bombed in the second weekend it was out or it might not have bombed, then all the movie people are excited because this might be the official end of the mass and capes era. That's what I'm calling it. Where Marvel's in some trouble.

So somebody figure out how to report this in a way that I understand all the basics. Next one, Fantastic Four. So it bombed in the second weekend it was out or it might not have bombed, then all the movie people are excited because this might be the official end of the mass and capes era. That's what I'm calling it. Where Marvel's in some trouble.

We've just made too many of these now. And now there's a feeling that the less and less successful that these movies become, the more they'll actually spend money on good and original movies and IP and things like Sinners and giving really good directors more money to make cool stuff. I'm dubious. I think they're going to keep rolling out the capes and the masks and making excuses for this, but I like that we're at least having the conversation about maybe we need more good movies. So I'd like to plant my flag in the let's make more good movies than aren't superhero movies.

We've just made too many of these now. And now there's a feeling that the less and less successful that these movies become, the more they'll actually spend money on good and original movies and IP and things like Sinners and giving really good directors more money to make cool stuff. I'm dubious. I think they're going to keep rolling out the capes and the masks and making excuses for this, but I like that we're at least having the conversation about maybe we need more good movies. So I'd like to plant my flag in the let's make more good movies than aren't superhero movies.

Next thing, Steve Pagliuca, who lost out he was a minority owner of the Celtics at the end of the February, almost bought the Nets and kinda didn't get his stuff together in time. Had Joe Tsai as a minority partner, dragged his feet a little bit, and then ended up it was the Nets, it was the Liberty, it was Barclays getting all of it. Joe Tsai ended up saying, Screw this. Why do I need this guy? Buys all of it himself for 3,300,000,000.0.

Next thing, Steve Pagliuca, who lost out he was a minority owner of the Celtics at the end of the February, almost bought the Nets and kinda didn't get his stuff together in time. Had Joe Tsai as a minority partner, dragged his feet a little bit, and then ended up it was the Nets, it was the Liberty, it was Barclays getting all of it. Joe Tsai ended up saying, Screw this. Why do I need this guy? Buys all of it himself for 3,300,000,000.0.

So PAGS doesn't get that. Then he's in on the Celtics sale and had the third highest bid. I think he bid 5,500,000,000.0. And that finished third in the rankings and the Celtics ended up going for 6,100,000,000.0. So now he's bought the Connecticut Sun for $350,000,000 it's not even clear if he can move them to Boston or not.

So PAGS doesn't get that. Then he's in on the Celtics sale and had the third highest bid. I think he bid 5,500,000,000.0. And that finished third in the rankings and the Celtics ended up going for 6,100,000,000.0. So now he's bought the Connecticut Sun for $350,000,000 it's not even clear if he can move them to Boston or not.

但这简直是经典操作，老兄，直接把钱砸在篮网队上。五年后，康涅狄格太阳队以十分之一的价格就能拿下，你本可以把自由队也纳入交易。哇哦。这个周末收到一堆短信都在问这整件事到底什么情况。康涅狄格太阳队以3.5亿的价格成交，而联盟负债累累，球员们很可能即将发起某种罢工或停摆。

But this is just a classic, man, just spend the money in the Nets. It's five years later, the Connecticut Sun for one tenth the price, you could have had the Liberty as part of the deal. Wow. Lot of texts this weekend about what the hell was going on with this whole thing. But the Connecticut Sun going for 350,000,000 in a league that is highly leveraged, and the players are about to to probably go on some sort of strike lockout.

天知道一年半后会发生什么。祝他们好运吧。湖人队这边，他们宣布了卢卡的续约。基本上是两年合同，第三年有球员选项，他这是在为2028年赚取天文数字做准备。

God only knows what happens a year and a half from now. Good luck on on all of that. The Lakers, so they announced the Luka extension. It's basically a two year deal. He has a player option for the third year, he's gonna it sets himself up to make a kajillion dollars in 02/1928.

而勒布朗那边，他正发短信或在Ins上晒训练视频。整件事看起来诡异极了。勒布朗·詹姆斯在篮球生涯中一直掌控着所有局面，手握主动权。但这是第一次情况完全失控。现在的湖人队，简直像在看某人带着更年轻火辣的新欢入住，而前妻还在房子里自拍刷存在感。

And then LeBron's over there, and he's texting or or Instagramming out his workouts. And the whole thing is just bizarre to watch. LeBron James has been in control of every situation he's ever been in basketball wise, who has always held the cards. And this is the first time ever where that's not the case. And now the Lakers, it's almost like watching somebody move in their younger, hotter girlfriend, but the ex wife is still living in the house taking selfies of themselves.

我完全被吸引住了。等不及要看未来两周媒体如何操纵这场戏码。我的刀叉餐盘餐巾都已备好。最后值得一提的是，我是在《夏日狂潮》第二部分——约翰·塞纳对战科迪·罗兹之前录的这段。虽然节目上线时比赛可能正在进行。

I'm riveted. I can't wait to see how this plays out from a media manipulation standpoint over the next two weeks. I have my fork, my knife, and my plate, my napkins ready to go. And then last but not least, I'm taping this before the second part of SummerSlam, John Cena versus Cody Rhodes. So I think it's going up, but this podcast will go up probably as that's happening.

但在第一部分，WEE上演了最精彩的假伤剧情之一，可能是史上最佳。几周前赛斯·罗林斯假装受伤，原定要对战CM朋克争夺次级冠军头衔（就是那个大家其实没那么在乎，但毕竟也算个冠军的腰带）。他演得膝盖重伤，完美卖惨。

But in part one, the WWE executed one of the great fake injury moves. I think maybe the greatest, where Seth Rollins got hurt a few weeks ago. He was supposed to wrestle Centimeters Punk for the second best title, the title that's not that title actually everyone cares about, but the other title, which people still care about, not quite as much as the real title. So it looked like he hurt his knee. He sold it.

比赛因此取消，那是三四周前的事。之后他无时无刻不在卖弄腿伤，连做客《里奇·艾森秀》时都继续表演，假装去看詹姆斯·安德鲁斯医生，拄拐杖戴护具，逼真到WEE内部都信以为真。

They squashed the match. This was like three, four weeks ago. And then he painstakingly sold it in every aspect of what he was doing that he hurt his leg. Even I think he guest hosted the Rich Eisen show and even sold it there, took some fake fight to go see Doctor. James Andrews, was on crutches and a huge brace everywhere he was to the point that everyone around WWE thought that he was actually hurt.

结果CM朋克刚在《夏日狂潮》赢得次级冠军，正庆祝时，罗林斯的出场音乐突然响起——因为他手握

And then Centimeters Punk finally wins the second best title at SummerSlam. Good moment. And then Rollins comes out and hears music and like, Oh, here we go. Because he has the money in the bank suitcase, which is one of the great gimmicks we've ever come up with the money in the bank where you can immediately challenge somebody to the title comes out with the money in the bank suitcase, but he's got his braces on his and his crutches. And it's like, well, what the hell is he going to do?

合约公文包（我们设计过最棒的桥段之一，允许持有者随时挑战冠军）。他带着公文包出场，却仍拄拐戴护具，全场都在想：这货要干嘛？结果他扔了拐杖拆护具，冲进擂台，趁疲惫的朋克不备用公文包猛砸，压制三秒夺冠——这是我见过最绝的伤病反转。

Then he drops the crutches, takes the brace off, runs in the ring. Centimeters Punk's exhausted, hits him with the suitcase a few times, and then pins him and wins the title. And it was the best injury swerve I've ever seen in my life. And it made me think, I just wish this could happen in other sports where, you know, like So I tweeted this and then people were like, This did happen with Paul Pierce in 2008 when you got hurt in the wheelchair. And I was like, All right.

我发推说希望其他体育项目也玩这招，有人提醒2008年保罗·皮尔斯坐轮椅诈伤。好吧...但想象下橄榄球季后赛，赛前宣布约什·艾伦缺阵，结果他突然生龙活虎冲出来打懵对手——这多带劲！我爱死罗林斯这操作了，WEE今年在剧情叙事上强势回归，尽管过去十年一直不错。

I didn't really even come back for that. But it would be funny. I guess teams do this with football injuries where they either hide how hurt somebody is or but it would be great if somebody was just supposed to miss the game and then all of a sudden showed up. Like some playoff game where it's like, Josh Allen, he's out. He's been scratched.

He's gonna be the third quarterback. And then he just runs out a 100% healthy and just fucks with the other team. I loved it. I loved the Rollins thing. WWE is having a really, really strong comeback year from a storytelling standpoint, even though it was doing well for the whole decade.

He's gonna be the third quarterback. And then he just runs out a 100% healthy and just fucks with the other team. I loved it. I loved the Rollins thing. WWE is having a really, really strong comeback year from a storytelling standpoint, even though it was doing well for the whole decade.

但我认为这对他们来说是相当不错的一年。我想就是这样了。哦，还有《牛仔队》纪录片，将于8月19日上映，我有幸提前看了七集，非常精彩，大家敬请期待。我可能会在播客里聊聊这个，但它真的让我怀念起从前只有麦登游戏和夏日岛橄榄球的日子，那时我们不会过度分析这些东西。没有24小时不间断的网络讨论，你只是看比赛，球队有赢有输，你以为建立了王朝结果却没有，或者有人受伤了，你就这样坐过山车般经历着。

But I think this has been a really good year for them. I think that's it. Oh, the Cowboys doc, which comes out, I think, August 19, which I was lucky enough to see seven episodes and it's fantastic and just get ready. I'll probably do something on the podcast about this, but really made me nostalgic for the days when we just had Madden and Summer Island football and we didn't overthink a lot of this stuff. We didn't have the 20 fourseven internet talk cycle and you just kind of watch the games and teams won and lost and you thought you had a dynasty and then didn't or somebody got hurt or and you were just on the roller coaster ride.

我们只是享受其中，没有过度思考。这让我很怀念。也让我怀念讨论达拉斯牛仔队和他们一团糟的状态，我们马上要和戴安娜·罗西尼聊这个，先插播段珍珠酱乐队的音乐，接下来继续NFL话题。我是在周日下午录制的这段，今天是个特别的日子。

And we just kind of enjoyed it and we didn't overthink it. And it made me nostalgic for that. It also made me nostalgic to talk about the Dallas Cowboys and what a mess they are, which we're gonna do in one second with Diana Rossini and take a break, throw it to Pearl Jam, and then, NFL talk next. I'm taping this on a Sunday afternoon. It's a special day.

戴安娜·罗西尼，你从没上过这个播客吧？我想你上过其他所有播客，就这个没来过。而且我们让你关掉手机消息提醒一小时，以前有人让你这样做过吗？

Diana Rossini, who's never been on this podcast before. I think you've been on all the other podcasts, but just not this one. And we got you to turn your techs off for an hour, which has anyone have you ever done that for anybody before?

没有。就算我分娩的时候都没关过。今天破例了。

Nope. Not even, when I was in labor. So I do it for here.

你分娩时还回消息？

You had the tech son in labor?

开玩笑吧？给我接生第一个孩子的医生在我用力时还问我钢人队的事。我当时就想：老兄你认真的吗？他后来说是为了让我保持冷静，说知道我喜欢聊橄榄球。

Are you kidding? The doctor that was delivering my son's was my first one was asking me about the Steelers while I was pushing. I was like, dude, are you kidding right now? He later said he was doing it to keep me calm. He's like, I just know you like to talk football.

所以他觉得问我球队的事能转移我对疼痛的注意力——因为我左边身体没麻醉到，能清楚感觉到...

So I figured if I just asked you about the team that, you know, you would think about that and not the pain because, like, the left side of my body wasn't taking medication, so I wasn't numb. I could feel a lot of

天啊。

it. Oh, no.

这就是他的应对方法。不过我可给他提供了不少内部消息，记得当时还想：你现在接生收获可真大，其他产妇肯定没给过你这种情报吧。

So that was his way around it. But I mean, I gave him great intel. I remember thinking that. Was like, I mean, you're getting a lot right now from this delivery. I I have a hard time believing that other mothers are giving you this information.

总之很兴奋能来这儿。消息提醒关了，要是有突发新闻会有人打电话的。

But yeah. So I'm I'm psyched to be here. I turned off the text, so I'll figure if there's breaking news, someone will call.

那本该是有史以来最诡异的橄榄球视频播客——一边分娩、一边和医生交谈、一边回答钢人队问题。泰特，你会中途休息吗？让我们插播几条赞助商广告。

That would have been the weirdest video football podcast anyone ever did. Pushing out a baby, talking to the doctor, answering Steelers questions. Tate, would you take breaks during that? Let's take a break. Hear from a couple sponsors.

我得给自己再打点药。

I'm gonna take more medication in my body.

真希望能拉到那种赞助。医生肯定会找赞助商的，毕竟接生费用高昂。不过说实话我也不清楚...虽然你家孩子比我家大很多，但你应该还记得他们出生时的情形吧？

Love to get that sponsor. That'd be smart. I'm sure the doctor would find a sponsor because they cost a lot of money. They don't by the way, don't know. I mean, I know your kids are a lot older than mine, but I'm sure you remember when they were born.

我们当时简直不敢相信医生几乎没做什么。真正干活的是我们那位护士

We just we could not believe how little our doctor did. Like, our the nurse that we had

是啊。

Yeah.

全程都是她在忙。医生就进来喊了两句'用力'、'太好了'

She she did the work. He came in. He was like, oh, yeah. Push. Oh, yay.

然后宣布'是个男孩'。知道吗？知道吗？本·罗斯里斯伯格要复出吗？知道吗？

It's a boy. You know? You know? Is Ben coming out of retirement? You know?

就像 呃

Like Well,

关键在于，我觉得医生更像是为突发状况待命的。当一切顺利时，他们的作用就像踢附加分的球员——'哦，看起来很简单'。但突然发现'天啊，犯规让我们退到40码线，现在真得靠人踢进这一球了'

here's the thing. I think they're more there for something for, like, the the if something goes wrong aspect of it. When everything goes right, it's just basically like the guy coming in to kick the extra point. It's like, oh, that seemed easy. But then you just gotta make sure, oh my god.

犯规让我们退到40码线，现在真得靠人踢进这一球了。

The penalty pushed us back to the 40. Now I actually need somebody to make this.

是啊。然后恐慌就来了。我得说，我生迈克尔只用了十二分钟，这挺酷的。十二分钟？没错。

Yeah. Then the panic sets in. I will say my first I delivered Michael in twelve minutes, which is pretty cool. Twelve minutes? Yeah.

十二分钟。这还让我有了竞争心，因为我嫂子只用了十分钟。所以我整个过程都在看时钟，心想，我可不能成为家里最慢的那个。

Twelve minutes. Also made it competitive because my sister-in-law did it in ten. So I just the whole time I was looking at the clock, like, I can't be the girl in the family.

不过，计时是从什么时候开始的呢？

Well, how do you start the clock, though?

从你开始用力的时候算起。对吧？就是当你宫口开到十指，他们会说，好了，开始吧。顺便说一句，那些阵痛持续好几天的妈妈们，真是佩服你们。懂我意思吗？

So when you start pushing. Right? So your 10 centimeters dilated and they're like, okay, let's do this. We're going, you know, which, by the way, the the ladies out there that have been in labor for days, like, God bless you. You know?

我当时就想，快点啊，赶紧结束吧。想想女性要经历这个，真是难以置信。

Like, I I was like, come on. Like, let's do this thing. It's unbelievable to think how women do this.

听着，那是我这辈子见过最震撼的事，整个过程我都充满敬畏，同时觉得自己完全帮不上忙，这种状态在孩子出生后的头几个月还在持续。我们就像个摆设。

Listen, it was the single most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life, and I was in awe of it the entire time and felt completely useless, which then continued for the first couple months of the actual child being out. We're just kinda there.

现在。

Now.

是啊，我们就是个摆设。坐在场边捡几个篮板球，啥正经事没干，也没人给我们布置战术。

Yeah. We're just kinda there. We're sitting picks, grabbing a couple rebounds. We're not doing anything. Nobody's calling plays for us.

确实。我十三个月后又生了第二个。同样的医生，同样的护士。特别棒。医生还说，嘿，看看谁回来了。

That is true. I wound up having my second thirteen months later. And same doctor, same nurse. It was awesome. He's like, hey, look who's back.

钢人队打得怎么样？我不知道。当时大概过了十八分钟吧，医生就说，嘿，加把劲。他说，我半小时后就交班了。

How move Steelers doing? And I don't know. I was I don't We're probably about eighteen minutes in, and my doctor's like, hey. Come on. He's like, my shift is actually ending in a half an hour.

我们必须这么做。所以向Migliaccio医生致敬。

We gotta do this. So shout out to doctor Migliaccio.

哇，你用了两分钟进攻战术。

Wow. You went two minute offense.

是啊，我也不知道怎么回事。我们退步了。就像和Joey一起经历了超级碗后的宿醉，我们就是...我们失去了她，失去了节奏。

Yeah. I don't know what happened. We took a step back. It's like we had the Super Bowl hangover with Joey. We we just we we lost her we lost her step.

我不清楚。可能是我太累了，毕竟我在一年内生了两个孩子。抱歉。

I don't know. Maybe I was tired because I gave birth to two babies in a span of a year, essentially. Sorry.

好吧。现在我得讲讲我的分娩故事，虽然不是我生孩子。我们的大女儿Zoe，那是个周五，我妻子以为要生了。我们开车去医院，心想终于来了。

Alright. Now I have to tell you my labor story even though it wasn't me in labor. The fir our daughter, Zoe, our oldest kid. So it was like on a Friday, and my wife thought she went into labor. And we drove in, we're like, here we go, it's time.

结果没动静。医生说还没到时候，她觉得很奇怪，说这孩子急着要出来似的。让我们回家等着。

And wasn't happening. It was like, they're like, Yeah, it's not. And she was like, It's so weird. Like, this baby's dying to come out. Go home.

整个周末她都动弹不得，只能躺着。我们看完了整季《24小时》，还吃了辣食。

We have the whole weekend. And she's like incapacitated. She's just like lying. So we watched an entire season of 24. And we eat spicy food.

试遍了所有催产偏方。周日晚上还是没反应。周一早上她说有点感觉，我现在就像喊狼来了的孩子，问'真要回去吗？'

We do all the stuff you're supposed to do to grease the fetus up. Sunday night, nothing. Monday morning, she's like, I'm feeling a little something. Now I'm like the boy who cried wolf. I'm like, All right, we have to go back?

到底生不生？最后决定还是去医院，但我还没喝咖啡，就问她'能顺路去趟星巴克吗？'因为知道要在医院待很久，她勉强同意了。

Is it happening or not? I don't know, maybe we should just go back. So we go back, but I haven't had coffee yet, and I stop. And I'm like, Can I stop at Starbucks quick? Because I need to Like, we're in there for a while, she's like, All right, fine.

排队时前面有位女演员——不知道讲过没——就是《90210》里演Brandon已婚女友Lucinda Nicholson的那位，第四季的角色。

Go in. And I'm in there, and there's I don't know if I've ever told this story. There's an actress who used to be on 90,200 O in line ahead of me at the coffee, who played Lucinda Nicholson, Brandon's girlfriend who was married in season four.

我记得。而且

I remember. And

我当时就觉得，这也太奇怪了。有个90,002和10护理。我迫不及待想告诉我妻子，去买咖啡，回来时发现，我心想你绝对猜不到20个问题，里面是谁？而她只是说，快去医院。

I'm just like, This is so weird. There's a 90,002 and 10 care. I can't wait to tell my wife, Get the coffee, come back in. I'm like, You're not gonna believe 20 questions, who's in there? And she's like, Get to the hospital.

不知怎么的，在那五分钟里，宝宝突然要出生了，她真的开始阵痛，现在这个故事总被提起，说我非得在那时停下来买咖啡，而她正在分娩。事情被扭曲了。你们在关系中也这样吗？把故事添油加醋，虽然核心是真的，但现在已经比实际情况夸张了七倍。现在版本变成她正在生孩子，我却非要停下来买咖啡，她还坐在前座。

Somehow in that five minutes, the baby and all of a sudden she was really in labor, and now this story comes up all the time, that I had to stop for coffee, that she was in labor. And it's twisted. Do you do this in your relationship? Do you twist the stories where there's truth in the story, but now it's seven levels beyond what actually happened in the story. Now it's like she was in labor, but I had to stop for coffee, and she was in the front seat.

完全被夸大了。连我自己都可能被冒犯到。

It's just been completely exaggerated. Could offend myself.

可能也冒犯到那位女演员，但你会说对啊。不过你知道，那是珍妮·加斯。明白吗？

Could've the actress too, but you're like Yeah. But, you know, it it was it was Jenny Garth. You know?

是托瑞·斯佩林。随着时间推移，又变成珍妮·加斯和托瑞·斯佩林了。我也搞不清。

It's Tori Spelling. As the years pass, it's Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling. I don't know.

没错。要是我丈夫被问到讨厌我什么，这绝对能进前三。手机大概是第一，第二就是我总爱添油加醋讲故事。有些纯粹是我记性差，对吧？

Yeah. I would say if my husband was asked something he hates about me, that would be a top a top three. It probably the phone first. Second would be that I do do that to the stories. And some of it's just my memory, right?

就像你知道的，特别是考虑到今天主题是生育——生完孩子后会发生些变化。好像婴儿把脑子也带出来了。我经常这样，完全不记得某些事，仿佛左脑叶被男孩占了一半。

Like, as you know, like, I don't know what it is, especially, you know, since the theme so far has been birth. Something happens after you deliver a child. It's like the baby comes out with your brain. It's like it's like gone. I'm like, oh, there's a boy in half of my left lobe because I do it all the time where I'm like, I don't even remember that.

最糟的是，万一遇到很熟的人，我却盯着对方想：完全认不出你是谁。

The worst is I. God forbid, I run into someone that I I know well, and I'm like, looking at them like, no idea who you are.

你这症状，简直像早期阿尔茨海默症。是啊。

You've, like, faced Alzheimer's. Yeah.

太可怕了。我居然到了那个地步。你懂吗？

Horrible. The fact that I'm even at that point. You know?

你知道，当我们变得像我们的妈妈那样时，就会开始把两个毫无关联的故事糅合在一起，变成某种超级故事。明明是餐厅里发生在不同夜晚、不同年份的两件事，最后却融合成一个超级加强版的故事。

Well, you know, when we become when it becomes like our moms, then it's like you just start merging two different stories that have no relation, and they become some sort of super story. It's two different things that happen at a restaurant, but they were two different nights in two different years, and they become a super a supersized version of some story.

但神奇的是，你能清晰地记得孩子出生那天的每个细节——无论是白天、早晨还是夜晚，如果你有幸拥有多个孩子的话。

It is wild, though, how you you can vividly remember the day, the morning, the night, whenever it is when when your child's or children, if if you're fortunate, are born.

没错。每个细节都记得。

No. Every aspect of it.

全部细节，对吧？我记得当时的温度。我儿子现在三岁和两岁。

All of it. Right? I remember the temperature. I remember the I mean, my my son's three and two. Yeah.

那些事还没发生呢。他们还小，不像你家孩子那么大。但确实是美好的回忆，希望对大家来说都是如此。

It didn't happen. They're they're little. It's not like they're your kids' ages. But, yeah, it's it's it's they're great memories, hopefully. Hopefully, for for for people out there.

那绝对是我人生中的高光时刻。

Was definitely a highlight of my life for sure.

我觉得之所以记得这么清楚，是因为整个过程都令人恐惧。每个环节都是你从未经历过的——一个生命正在诞生，你要对它负责，却完全不知道孩子会长什么样、是否健康、会不会出现什么意外。有太多未知数，当事情真正发生时，你怎么可能不记得每个细节。

Well, I think you remember it because it's so completely terrifying the entire time. At the at every aspect of it, you're doing something you've a situation situation you've you've never been involved in before. There's this human life coming out. You're in charge of it. You have no idea what the kid's going look like, if the kid's going to be healthy, if there's going to be some sort of terrible thing that There's just all these variables, and then when it actually happens so I don't know how you wouldn't remember every aspect of that.

是啊。因为每天都有新生儿降临，人们容易觉得这事很平常。但其实对身体的冲击有千万种原因。

Yeah. And it's one of those things I do think because people have children every single day that you kinda just think it's common. And it's like, yeah. Yeah. They had a it it it's a it's a shock to the body in for a million reasons.

我不知道为什么觉得自己必须坚强，当我开始宫缩时。我在客厅用FaceTime打给姐姐，当时正四肢着地。她性格特别温柔，是个四年级老师。

I don't know why I thought I had to be tough when I started to feel that I was contracting. Yeah. But I FaceTimed my sister in my living room, and I was on all four. And she's like this really pleasant personality. She's a fourth grade teacher.

她就是那种，怎么说呢，很温柔。接电话时，我当时就，呃，你知道，角度特别奇怪对吧？因为我正四肢着地趴着。

She's just, like, sweet. And she answers the phone, and I was like and, you know, it's like a weird angle. Right? Because I'm like, I'm on all four.

没错。

Right.

她问‘要死了吗？’我就说‘嘿，我我我我不知道，我感觉很痛’。她就回‘嗯’。

She's like, die? I was like, hey. I I I I don't know. I'm feeling pain. She's like, yeah.

她说‘你这是要生了，现在马上去医院’。我连忙说‘不不不，我没事，真的没事’。

You're in labor. Go to the hospital now. I'm like, no, no. I'm good. I'm good.

因为我觉得不想太尴尬。你知道的，谁都不想做那个太早去医院，结果干坐着等的人，丈夫还在旁边说‘开玩笑吧？’。我是想着——如果真要去医院（我家离医院就隔条街），那肯定是要生了才去。所以整件事，确实是个永生难忘的经历。

Because I think I didn't want to be embarrassed. You know, you don't want to be the person that shows up so early and then you're just like sitting there and your husband's like, oh, are you kidding? Like, I wanted to I wanted to go. If I'm gonna go to the hospital, which was down the street from my house too, like, we're going. So, yeah, the the whole thing, the it's it's definitely an experience and something I will never forget.

其实第二次比第一次更让人佩服，因为第二次你知道要面对什么。第一次就像爬一座从未攀登过的山，完全不知道身体会发生什么变化。第二次你可是心知肚明。

Well, the second time's almost more impressive than the first time because you know the second time what's in store. The first time you don't know. You're, like, climbing some mountain you've never climbed. You have no idea what's happening what's gonna happen to you physically. The second time, you know what's gonna happen.

偏偏体验更糟糕。明知道还要经历，想想就更可怕了对吧？

When you're just worse. Doing it. Think that's worse. Right?

库尔特，绝对同意。我记得当时想‘不敢相信还得再来一次’。这大概就是我没要老三的原因。

Kurt Kurt. Absolutely. I remember thinking, I cannot believe I have to do this again. I I mean Yeah. It's probably why I didn't have a third.

我们没要老三也是这个原因。我妻子直接说‘到此为止，这辈子再也不干了’。

That's why we didn't have a third. My wife is like, I'm out. Not never doing this again. Yeah.

我懂。上周末还有人问我‘如果现在塞个婴儿给你，会想要老三吗？’我说‘当然想’。虽然我家整天像龙卷风过境，双职工根本没固定作息。

I know. Someone just said to me over the weekend, actually, was like, hey. If I just put a baby in your hand right now, would you want a third? I'm like, absolutely. Even though, like, my house is a tornado at all times of the day with, you know, two working parents and, you know, I don't have a schedule.

对吧？当你是一名报道NFL的记者时，你得时刻保持状态。可我还是会想，要是不用再怀那个孩子，不用经历分娩的痛苦就好了——比赛开始，咱们上吧。顺便说一句，我并不是说这应该有什么区别，但我曾是大学一级运动员，明白吗？

Right? When you're a reporter covering the NFL, you don't you know, you're just you just got to be on all the time. Yet I'm still like, if I just didn't have to carry that baby again and go through the trauma of pushing that baby out like, Game on, let's do this thing. And by the way, I was not saying that this should make a difference, but I was a division one athlete. You know?

我进去时又不是超重或者四十年没锻炼的懒汉。我体型相当健康，懂吗？我当时觉得这不会太糟。不过十二分钟确实也不算太糟糕。

Like, it's not like I went in there overweight or or, you know, just the bum that hasn't, like, worked out in forty years. Like like, I'm fairly fit. You know? I was like, this can't be that bad. But I I guess twelve minutes isn't so bad.

我大概不该这么...

I shouldn't have probably be so

苛刻。那太了不起了。是啊，我的孩子比你的大得多。现在我只希望当初能更珍惜那段时光，希望我们能多要几个孩子。

hard to That's amazing. Yeah. Well, my kids are way older than yours. I'm at the point now where I wish I had appreciated all of it more. I wish we'd had more kids.

我妻子总是说'我们本来就不会生三个，又不是你怀胎'，她就爱说这套。我就想，好吧，我懂了。但我还是希望我们有第三个孩子。

My wife's always like, well, we never would have had three, so it's not like you were carrying it. She's doing that whole thing. And it's like, alright. I get it. But I wish we had a third one.

下周跟我们来海滩吧，陪三岁和两岁的孩子待两小时。你会飞奔回去亲你自己的孩子，和他们拥抱喝鸡尾酒，说'我爱你们'的。

Come to the come to the beach with us this next this upcoming week and just spend spend two hours with a three and two year old. You'll be you'll be running back to your kids, kissing them, hugging them, having a cocktail with them. Like, I love you.

我知道。有次在飞机上看到那些带着小孩的父母脸上那种空洞恐惧的表情——他们眼神黯淡，仿佛灵魂出窍，心想'这趟五小时航班所有人都会恨我'，而身边的孩子已经开始崩溃了。

I know. I do feel that sometimes on an airplane when you see the that vacant terrified look on the parents' faces because they're flying with their little kids, and they just kinda it's almost like they they're they just have dark eyes. They're just, like, dead inside because they're like, this is gonna be five hours. Everyone on the plane is gonna hate me. My one kid here is already melting down.

真想一枪崩了自己。我太熟悉那种表情了，经历过太多次。

Just shoot me in the head. And I know that look because I had it many times.

我们管这叫'屁股紧绷季'——全程提心吊胆，明知会发生什么又羞于启齿，就是那种状态。

Tight butt season is what we call that. Like, your butt just tight the whole time because you're just you don't even know what it's gonna be, but you know what it's gonna be, and you're embarrassed. And it's just all Yeah.

你祈祷飞机上别出状况，但心里清楚肯定会有事发生。

You're hoping for the miracle that nothing happens on the plane, but you know something's gonna happen.

我最近一直经历的情况是，比如在旅行时遇到想聊足球的球迷。现在我很惶恐，因为刚和这人聊完。懂吗？他们要么关注过我，要么读过相关报道，或者在电视上见过我，这本来挺酷的。但现在他们很可能会以母亲的标准来评判我。

The the the thing that I've been experiencing is, like, if I see a football fan, like someone that wants to talk football when we're traveling. And now I'm horrified because I just talked to this person. Right? They either follow or they've read stuff or they've seen me on TV, and that's cool. But now they're gonna probably judge me as a mom.

而且迈基和乔伊简直是小疯子。你会以为他们从小喝咖啡长大的。所以我更加紧张了，因为你知道，这种混合状态真的压力山大。这就是为什么我不确定你旅行时是否也这样——当我独自旅行看见其他妈妈时，我都尽量不去看。孩子们在哭闹。

And Mikey and Joey are lunatics. Like, you would think they drink coffee as kids. So then I get just even more tense because, you know, it's the whole the whole mix of it is really stressful. So that's why I don't know if you're like this when you travel, but when I'm traveling without them and I see moms, like, I just I try not to look. The kids are crying.

我会试着帮忙。

I try to help.

比如尽我所能，

Like, whatever I can do,

传递一种'兄弟你能搞定'的气场。

just send the vibe like, dude, you got this. You got this.

我们那次旅行是参加好友乔·豪斯的婚礼，大概08年。当时我女儿还不到现在三岁半的年纪，儿子可能一岁左右。回程时——婚礼在马撒葡萄园岛机场办的——我女儿拉响了火警警报。

We we traveled. My buddy Joe House got married, I think, in o eight. So my daughter was not even now she's three and a half. My son was maybe one. And on the way back, he got married in Martha's Vineyard, in the Martha's Vineyard Airport, and my daughter pulled the fire alarm.

场面简直了，接着她开始大哭，警报声震耳欲聋。然后我另一个儿子因为噪音也哭起来，而她哭是因为以为自己要坐牢。我当时想：这绝对是旅行噩梦的满分体验。我们甚至还没开始飞行呢。

And it was just, and then started crying, and it was loud. And then my other son started crying because it was loud, but she was crying because she thought she was going to jail. I was like, this has to be it. This has to be a 10 out of 10 for worst travel experience. We hadn't even flown anywhere yet.

结果已经在科德角制造了事件。说到恐慌，这个转折如何？我们来玩个叫'当真吗'的游戏。我会给出几个剧情线，最后你要给我两个。但我想先提今天看到凯莱布·威廉姆斯状态极差的片段——虽然这个已经放在DACA里给你了。

And we had already started like a Cape Cod incident. Hey, speaking of panic, how about that transition? We're gonna play a game called For Real. I'm gonna give you different storylines, and then at the end, you're gonna give me two. But I want to start with I put this in the DACA for you, but there was a clip today of Caleb Williams looking just terrible.

所以我的第一个'当真吗'问题是：凯莱布·威廉姆斯的恐慌时刻，这是真的吗？你买账了吗？说说你的看法。

So my first for real is Caleb Williams panic time, Is this for real? Are you buy are you buying this yet? Give me your take.

我暂时认为不真实。首先现在还为时过早。这已经是我们看到的第三位与他合作的战术指挥了。

I'm gonna say not real for now. I think, first of all, it's early. Okay. This is his third play caller that we've seen him have. Right.

如果算上托马斯·布朗临时接手时的过渡期情况。你看，这位球员在南加州大学正是靠着那些自由发挥的即兴打法大放异彩，我们都见识过——这大概就是他成为状元秀的原因。所以现在我认为真正的挑战在于...

If you count the interim situation there that we saw with Thomas Brown when he took over. And look, this is a player that thrived so much right on those freelance kind of off script plays at USC. We saw it. That's that's probably why he went number one overall. So I just think now the challenge is going to be.

他能否适应体系，对吧？能否调整自己来配合那些精密设计的战术、严格的时机把控、快速决策——这些正是本·约翰逊与贾里德·高夫配合无间的要素。现在很多报道都在强调芝加哥熊队的进攻体系不会照搬底特律雄狮队，我认为教练组刻意这么说，是因为他们目前还不具备那样的条件。

Can he conform, right? Can he adjust to that detailed structure of the plays, the timing, the quick decisions, the things that we saw Ben Johnson do so well with Jared Goff? Right. Which is I think you've seen too, like, a lot of stories now being said, like, the Chicago Bears offense is not going to be the Detroit Lions one. I think the Chicago bears coaching staff is purposely saying that because I don't think they're going to be equipped just yet to look like that.

战术理念是相通的，只是需要更多磨合时间。现在远未到恐慌的时候，熊队球迷需要多些耐心。因为本·约翰逊要求凯莱布·威廉姆斯掌握的战术细节，可能需要比杰登和德雷克更长的适应期——尽管我们总会拿他们作比较。

I think the idea is there. The it's just gonna take a little bit more time. So I don't think it's time to panic. I just think Chicago bears fans are just gonna need a little bit more patience because the details that Ben Johnson needs to the details that he needs Caleb Williams to pay attention to and be good at. I just think it may take a little bit more time, whereas we're gonna constantly compare them to Jayden and Drake even.

更多时间具体指多久？两个月还是两年？这才是问题的关键。

Right? A little bit more time. Is that two months, or is that two years? I guess that's the question for me.

我觉得两个月就够了。这家伙现在肯定在疯狂吸收教练指导的内容，我们得给他消化理解的时间。

I think two months. I think, look, the guy is probably guzzling this coaching in terms of taking in so much. Right? We gotta give him a chance to understand it, compute it.

这回答理性得过分，我都忍不住要赞赏了。

This is too rational of an answer. I mean, I I admire it.

我就知道。你该不会指望我上节目大喊'快恐慌吧，这小子智商欠费'之类的话吧？

I know. You I don't know if you wanted me to come on and be like, oh, by the way, you should be panicked because he ain't the brightest guy. Let me take

你这是在把我拉回现实...

me back. You're you're pulling me back to reality

放轻松点，先冷静下来——

because Like, chill out. Chill up, first of

我认识的所有熊队球迷现在都崩溃了。不只是训练营的表现，还有威克沙姆书里爆料的那些事，确实有些值得关注的细节。就像你说的，贾里德·高夫是被放大了优势，某种程度上被改造成了体系四分卫对吧？

All the Bears fans I know are losing their minds right now. Like, all of them. And it wasn't just like the training camp, it was the stuff from the Wickersham book, and there's just some kernels of like, know, Jared Goff, you're basically accentuating the strengths he has. You're making him like this somewhat of a system quarterback. Right?

就像你说的，凯莱布就像个自由职业者，非常令人兴奋。他几乎像个NBA球员。你只需要清空场地，让他一对一单挑所有人。但这怎么适应本·约翰逊的进攻体系呢？我不知道。

Caleb's like, as you said, like this freelancer, really exciting. He's almost like an NBA player. You just like kind of clear out He goes one on one with everybody. So how does that fit in a Ben Johnson offense? I don't know.

我有些疑问。不过我认为他们今年有可能成为季后赛球队。现在我开始紧张了。

I've I have some questions. I like them as a possible playoff team this year, though. Now I'm nervous.

我觉得这是因为熊队球迷在想，他的身体天赋独一无二，但他能打四分卫吗？我认为这才是关键——他能领导团队吗？这才是让他们害怕的地方，对吧？就像，好吧...

Well, I think it's because bears fans are going, like he his physical talent is unique, but can he play quarterback? I think that's And lead men. That's what's scaring them. Right? It's like, okay.

我们懂，我们都看到了。但你能做到吗？然后你能和一位真正优秀的战术布置者——主教练配合执行吗？这段'婚姻'能成功吗？

We get it. We see it. But can you do that? And then can you execute with a really good play caller head coach? Can you can this marriage work?

你能保持稳定性吗？你能激励现有的队友吗？你能通过车钥匙测试吗？特伦特·迪尔弗测试？你的队友会想把车钥匙扔给你，因为他们想让你开车载他们吗？

Can you be consistent? Can you inspire the the teammates that you have? Do you pass the car keys test, the Trent Dilfer test? Would your teammates toss toss you the car keys because they want you to drive them?

问题是，这些说法都老套得要命。

Here's the thing. It's all corny as hell.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我刚在丹佛和博·尼克斯聊过。对。我们谈到...去年这时候我也和他聊过。那时他还是个新秀，现在他整个人气场完全不同了，而且看起来体格也变壮了。

But I just sat with Bo Nix in Denver. Yeah. And we were talking about how. I was sitting with him exactly the same time last year. He was a rookie, and he's just got this swag to him now, and he's he physically looks bigger too.

我当时就说，好吧，现在跟我说实话。记得我们上次聊天时，我问过你：肖恩教练怎么样？战术手册难吗？你有多不知所措？

But I was like, okay. So tell me now the truth. Like, when we were talking, remember, I I was like, what's Sean like? What's this playbook like? How overwhelmed are you?

你当时表现得好像一切尽在掌握。真的吗？他说不，完全不是。我当时特别不适应。

And you kind of, like, acted as if you had it all under control. Like, did you? He's like, no. He's not at all. I was so uncomfortable.

对。

Right.

他说，我完全没搞懂。我全靠死记硬背，因为我不理解背后的原理。我不明白我们为什么要执行这些战术，也不理解从肖恩给我布置战术到开球之间的时间差有多重要。懂吗？

He's like, I didn't understand any of it. I memorized it all because I didn't comprehend the why behind it all. I didn't get why we were doing this the plays. I didn't understand the importance of the time between when Sean was giving me the play and snapping the ball. You know?

所有这些四分卫位置的细枝末节，在第一年快得让人窒息，到了第二年才逐渐慢下来。正是这些微小细节造就了伟大的四分卫。对于凯莱布·威廉姆斯，我们必须给他机会向本·约翰逊学习——正如塞斯·威克沙姆的文章深刻揭示的，甚至《The Athletic》的报道也指出，他此前从未得到过这种级别的指导。

It was all of these small parts of playing the quarterback position that was moving so damn fast that's now slowed down in year two. And so it's all these small details that that make up a great quarterback. And for Caleb Williams, we have to give him an opportunity here to learn Ben Johnson because as we know and as of Seth Wickersham's piece revealed so well and even some of the reporting of The Athletic said he wasn't getting that kind of coaching.

确实。

Right.

现在他遇到了我认为最棒的教练。我说‘认为’是因为我要参考贾里德·高夫的表现——他自己都承认，本·约翰逊是他成功的关键因素。让我们看看他能否复制这种成功。

So now he's got what I think is a great coach. And and I say think because I just I'm gonna go base off what we saw in Jared Goff because Jared Goff will be the first to say, and I think he did say that Ben Johnson's a big reason for his success. Let's see if he can apply it.

是啊。这事挺有意思，对了你说你打过大学比赛？你当时打什么项目的？

Yeah. It's a weird one because and you you said you played. What sport did you play in college, by the way?

足球。

Soccer.

踢什么位置

What position

乔治梅森大学。

were George Mason University.

你踢什么位置？让我猜猜...左边

What position were you? Let me guess. Left

回来。大家都这么猜。为什么？

back. Everyone guesses that. Why?

我不知道。速度。顶尖的顶尖。那是什么来着？

I don't know. Speed. Top top. What is what was it?

我以前是前锋。

I was a striker.

你以前是前锋？是啊。哦，我女儿也是前锋。当你提到凯勒布时，我两个孩子在运动时都这样，尤其是我女儿，因为每年他们都会经历这些小阶段升级。他们总说，没事，没事，我能搞定。

You were a striker? Yeah. Oh, my daughter's a striker. When you were saying about Caleb, I saw this with both of my kids when they played sports, but especially my daughter because you go up these little levels. Every year they're like, It's fine, fine, I got it.

然后一年后，就像，记得去年我以为我搞定了，其实我还没掌握这九样东西？确实如此。就像，不，不，我状态很好。哦，其实我今年的状态没想象中那么好。实际上我现在状态真的很好。

And then a year later, like, Remember last year when I thought I had it and I didn't have these nine different things? It is true. It's like, No, no, I'm in great shape. Oh, actually, I'm not in that as great shape as I thought I was this year. I'm actually in really good shape.

所以我在想凯勒布会不会也是这样，不。不。我没事。我能搞定。然后一年后才发现，哦，我其实没完全搞定。

So I wonder with Caleb, is this gonna be as, no. No. I'm fine. I got it. And then a year from now, it's like, oh, I didn't totally get it.

不。就像你的野马队例子，顺便一提，这让我想到野马队。

No. Like your Boenix example, which brings me to the Broncos, by the way.

哦，快说说。

Oh, let's go.

所以这支球队，我想，是我要支持的——虽然我没押他们赢超级碗，但每年总有一支球队能从季后赛边缘或底层队伍跃升为真正的强队竞争者，对吧？我觉得就是他们。有些人已经嗅到苗头了。

So this is this is, I think, the team I'm adopting as I don't know. I'm not picking them to win the Super Bowl, but I think every year a team takes the leap from either borderline playoff team or lower level playoff team to, like, actual full fledged contender. Right? And I think this is gonna be the team. I think some people are sniffing it out.

奇怪的是赌博赔率，比如FanDuel上的一些数据还没太大变动。但总体而言，研究这些的人看他们的赛程、新增自由球员、防守阵容、去年挖到宝的球员，肖恩·佩顿执教的第三年，博·尼克斯第二年，技能位也补强了。去训练营的人回来都说，这支球队有点东西。讽刺的是，你去过训练营。看到什么了？

It's weird, the gambling odds, like some of the stuff on FanDuel hasn't really moved that much. But in general, I think a lot of people who are studying this stuff, when you look at their schedule, when you look at the free agents they added, the defense, some of the of the guys they hit oil on last year, year three of Sean Payton, Bo Nix in his second year, they improved the skill positions. And it seems like the people that go to their training camp are coming away going, there's something going on with this team. So ironically, you were at the training camp. So what'd you see?

这支队伍有点状况。好吧，先快速交代下背景。我刚入职ESPN，是一名NFL记者。

Something's going on with this team. Okay. So just backstory real quick. I'm started at ESPN. I'm an NFL reporter.

但我完全迷失了。就像在鲨鱼群里游泳，置身赛场却不知所措。当时他们让我负责圣徒队的报道，德鲁·布里斯、马克·英格拉姆、阿尔文·卡马拉和肖恩·佩顿都在我采访名单里。

I'm lost, though. Like, I'm I'm I'm swimming with the sharks, and I'm out here in the field, and I I don't know what I'm doing. And at the time, they gave me the saints. That was, like, the team they wanted me to focus on. So I'm around Drew Brees, Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara, and Sean Payne.

那年他们打得特别好——虽然之前几年也不错，但那个赛季才是真正爆发的一年。因为常驻跟队，我和肖恩·佩顿变得很熟，总追着他问各种问题。

And this this is the year they they were good. Well, they were good a few years, but this is where they really had a breakout season. Yeah. And so because I was around them, I I I got to know Sean Payton really well. And so I used to ask them all these questions.

不过我说的提问，都是些不该问未来名人堂教练的幼稚问题。比如发短信问'为什么这回合你的角卫要这样防守？'他会直接回'没空理你。你人不错也很努力，但该去找别人讨论橄榄球——我要带队训练'。

But when I tell you I ask them questions, I'm talking basic stuff that you don't ask a future hall of fame coach, you know, texting like, hey. Why did your corner do this on this situation? Like, he's like so then she's like, I I don't have any time for you. Like, you're a lovely person. I can tell you're trying hard, but you need to go meet other people to talk to you about football because I'm running a team.

我说'可我不认识多少人啊'，他就建议'有个叫比尔·帕索斯的家伙，打给他吧'。结果我打给比尔·帕索斯，直接被挂断。

Yeah. So I was like, well, I don't really know that many people. He's like, well, there's this guy called, I don't know, Bill Parcells. Call him. I told to call Bill Parcells, and he hangs up on me.

电话接通他说'我是比尔'，我刚说'嗨比尔，我是ESPN的黛安·拉奇尼，NFL记者'——咔，电话就断了。

He's like, oh, this is Bill. I'm like, hi, Bill. My name is Diane Racini from ESPN. I'm an NFL reporter. Click.

我当时觉得这人真差劲，都说他多厉害，我看不过如此。后来ESPN老板来电问'你联系比尔·帕索斯了？'

I'm like, this guy sucks. Like, everyone says he's so great. Like, I don't think he's that great. My boss calls me from ESPN. He says, are you did you call Bill Parcells?

我说是啊，他问'为什么找他？'我说'我需要导师指导橄榄球知识'

I'm like, yeah. He's like, why? What do you want? I said, well, I need a mentor. I need someone to help me with football.

想在这个领域出人头地就得提升自己。老板说'黛，比尔应该没空帮你'，我求他'至少转达我的诚意'。于是老板又打过去说

Need to get better at this if I wanna be great. He's like, I don't know, Di. Like, I I don't think Bill Parcells has time to do this with you. I said, can you just tell him my intention? So my boss calls him back and says, alright.

'这姑娘是认真的'，最后比尔突然问'她来自新泽西？怎么不早说！'

Look, this girl wants to do this. And at the end, he goes, you know, she's a Jersey girl. He goes, why didn't you tell me she was a Jersey girl?

哦，看看你。

Oh, look at you.

他回电说，黛安娜，你为什么不一开始就提这个？你是来自新泽西的意大利姑娘？这周末有空吗？我说，哦，我不确定。

Calls me back. He goes, Diana, why didn't you lead with that? You're an Italian girl from Jersey? What are you doing this weekend? I said, oh, I I don't know.

他说，来萨拉托加吧。你喜欢马吗？天啊。于是我开车去了，和这个男人共度了大概八小时。

He said, come up to Saratoga. You like horses? Like, oh my gosh. So I drive up. I spend, I don't know, eight hours with this man.

正是通过比尔·帕塞尔斯，我才真正了解肖恩·佩顿是谁。所以我吸收了这一切——因为通过理解比尔并以那种视角学习橄榄球，我才能理解肖恩·佩顿。正因如此，我特别感激肖恩对我说：去联系皮尔特吧。

And that's where I learned about who Sean Payton is through Bill Parcells truly. So I take all of that because by understanding Bill and learning football through that lens, I've been able to understand Sean Payton. And so because of that, I've been so grateful to Sean for saying, hey. Go call Pilt ourselves.

但我还是想说，要理解他。你既明白他组建球队的意图，也清楚他是否喜欢这支球队？

So I still say understand him, though. You're so you understand both what he's trying to do with building a team, but also if he likes the team?

就是...你懂他行事的原因和方式，以及他陷入热忱时的状态。他现在就深爱着这支球队。比如今年夏天，教练几次主动联系我问候，我居然没接到电话——想想看，怎么会错过主教练来电？但确实发生了。他只留了条语音。

It's I just you understand why he does the things he does and how he operates and when he's in love. And he's in love with this team right now. Like, even this summer, coach, like, reached out to me a few times checking in, and and I missed the call, which, you know, how do you miss a head coaching calling you? But it happens. And he just left me a voicemail.

我看看是否还保存着。他就说了这么一句，准备好了吗？其实没有留言，只有提示音。

I I gotta see if I still have it. All he's this is what he said. Ready? So I don't have a message. Just like a beep.

然后肖恩·佩顿只说：我爱我的四分卫。就挂断了。谁会这样啊？后来见面时我们叙旧。

And it's just Sean Payton go, I love my queue. And he hangs up. Just I love my quarterback. Like, who does that? So when I saw him, we caught up.

我问他怎么回事，他说：黛，我太爱这支队伍了。我们确实看到...我是说格林劳今天穿着护具出场了。

I was like, what's going on? He's like, Di, I love this team. I just I love this. We do see I mean, we do see Greenlaw. We do see him out here.

今天全员着甲训练，你会爱上他对前锋五人的安排。听着...他最擅长推销理念，但这次没错——当我观察时，还有幸与年度最佳防守球员帕特里克·瑟坦交流后更确信这点。

Like, we're in pads today. You're gonna love what he sees this front five. And and look. He he can he can sell the best of them, but. He was right when I watched it and, you know, I got an opportunity to sit with Patrick Sertan, obviously defensive player of the year.

你知道我们总是让四分卫们列出联盟中前五的四分卫名单，就像我们平时做排名那样。我就想，不如问问帕特里克他心中的前五名。结果他列举的正是我们都会想到的那些人。为了娱乐效果，我就直接说了——艾伦·马霍姆斯。

And you know how we always ask quarterbacks, like, to list your you know, we ask the other quarterbacks in the league to list the top five quarterbacks. You know, we just do the rankings all the time. I was like, oh, let's just ask we should ask Patrick, like, what who the top five quarterbacks are. So he he does what we all do that he named the ones that we all think of. I'll say it just for entertainment value of, you know Alan Mahomes.

约什·艾伦，乔·伯罗。

Josh Allen, Joe Burrow.

拉马尔。

Lamar.

还漏了谁？

Who are missing there?

第五个名额可有意思了，你完全可以提名丹尼尔斯。

The fifth line the fifth line gets exciting because you could make a Daniel's case.

其实他还提到了赫伯特，把赫伯特加进去了

He threw Herbert in there, actually. He threw Herbert in

赫伯特？哇哦。他真爱收集500种四分卫啊。

there. Herbert? Wow. He loves he loves 500 quarterbacks.

我知道。我当时还插了杰伦·赫茨的名字，结果他毫无反应。事后我真该追问'你为什么不说话'，但他就是没接茬。然后他说'其实布恩克斯才该在名单上'。

I I know. We could I was so that I threw in Jalen Hurts, which I got no response, which, again, in the moment, I wish I was like, why didn't you say anything? But he didn't say anything. And he goes, the one that's right in there, I'm telling him, is Boonex.

哇，我当时的反应是'什么？'他们每天训练对抗。我刚读到篇报道，讲他们如何通过互相考验来促进彼此进步。

Wow. I'm like, what? Going against him every day in practice. I just read a story about that, about how they make each other better with testing each other.

没错。而且布的表现确实出色。我们采访他时，他详细讲了关于解读防守阵型的所有细节，今年他钻研肖恩的战术手册有多深入，现在他对战术的执行速度有多快。

Yeah. And and look. Bow bow was great. We talked to him too or we had an opportunity to interview him. And he he was just talking about all the post snap stuff, the understanding of it all, how how much he studied Sean's playbook this year and the comfort level he has, how quick he's moving now through it.

这真的是一门语言，需要理解它。从他视角看还有件特别有趣的事——他从未有过相同的战术指挥。要知道他打了五年大学联赛，虽然我们总开玩笑说他像52岁，但他职业生涯中只有高中三年级时连续两年由同一位战术指挥，除此之外再没有过。

Just just it's really a language and understanding it. The other thing too that was really interesting from his perspective, he hasn't had the same so, obviously, he played college for five years. And I know we joke that he's like 52 years old, but he's only had the same play caller two two years in a row one other time, and that was when he was a junior in high school.

哇。

Wow.

但想想他打了多少年橄榄球，却从未连续两年有相同的战术指挥。所以他说话就像个孩子似的：'你看，今年又能听到肖恩·佩恩的战术指导真好，因为我已经习惯没有这种连续性了。'我觉得这是个积极因素。

But think about how many years of football he's been playing, and he's never had the same play caller two years in a row. So he's kinda talking like this young kid of like, you see, it's great to have Sean Payne in my ear again this year because I'm not used to having that. So I think that that that's a good component.

他简直像参加AAU联赛那样在不同球队辗转。我很难判断他的真实水平——去年某些表现确实亮眼，作为季后赛队伍的四分卫完全合理，但偶尔也会让人扶额叹息。不过话说回来，他身边也确实缺乏技术型队友。

He almost, like, had an AAU experience where he's just bouncing around on different teams. I can't decide how good he is because I thought I really like some of the stuff he did last year. I I definitely thought it wasn't crazy that he was the quarterback of a playoff team, but he also had a couple moments where you're like, ugh. Yeah. But But he also didn't have very many skilled guys.

除了萨顿，基本就没人了。

He had Sutton, and that was basically it.

如果杰登·丹尼尔斯没把这支队伍带进国联决赛，你完全可以说博尼克斯是最佳新秀。他传球达阵数比杰登多，推进码数更多，

If Jaden Daniels doesn't take this team to the NFC championship, you can make an argument. Boenix is rookie of the year. Right? Like, he threw for more touchdowns than Jaden. He threw for more yards.

被擒杀次数更少——这可是香槟哥最看重的指标，所以他当年才讨厌拉塞尔·威尔逊。

He took less sacks, which that's like a big champagne thing, which is why he didn't like Russell Wilson.

没错。

Right.

他极度厌恶那些总被擒杀的四分卫。想惹毛他？提这个准没错。

He hates hates quarterbacks who take sacks. I mean, you wanna piss him off? Talk about that.

确实。

Right.

所以，你看，今年进攻线很健康，我超爱格林劳和尤方加。我是说，我觉得他们是橄榄球界最强的防守阵容。听着，我懂。科罗拉多来的这位女士和其他听众肯定也这么想。

So, you know, healthy offensive line this year, loving Greenlaw, Yufonga. I mean, this I think they're the best defense in football. I mean, look. I I get it. And people listening like this chick from Colorado.

我不是在吹嘘。但他们确实有特别之处。你去训练营就能感受到那种氛围，你懂的。这是肖恩·佩顿的战术体系在发挥作用，队员们全情投入——这已经赢了一半。

I'm not. It's just they have something there. You go to these camps and you you just feel it. You know it. And it's a it's the it's the Sean Payton programming, and they're buying in, and that's half the battle.

我每年都会做球员评级，今年看到丹佛排名这么高真是惊到我了。我用蓝筹、红筹、粉筹分级打分，他们防守组11个首发里竟有7人得分。教练组也能排进前四五名对吧？更别说他们还拥有顶级进攻锋线之一。

I was I was do these player ranking things before every year, and I was shocked by how high Denver was, where I do, like, blue chippers, red chippers, pink chippers, and assign different points. And I had seven guys in their defense that got at least one point out of the 11 starters. And then the coaching is a top four or five coaching staff. Right? But then they have one of the best four offensive lines.

去年最大问题是外接位置除了萨顿都很弱，所以他们补强了。我最近一直在研究RJ·哈维的资料，这个24岁的新秀能带来活力吗？昨天有个精彩冲球让他们很兴奋，但去年跑卫确实不行——

And the big thing last year was their their skill position guys, you know, were were pretty weak except for Sun, which they tried to beef up. I've been reading all the RJ Harvey stuff trying to figure out. He's a 24 year old rookie. Could he give them some juice? He had some big run yesterday that they were all excited about, but, I just didn't think that running backs were very good last year, which is

确实不行。

They weren't.

这其实是NFL最容易补强的位置，遍地都是合格跑卫。而且赛程也对他们有利，要对战美联南区和国联东区，还是第三顺位赛程。

Really the easiest thing to improve in the NFL. There's a million, like, decent running backs. So I also, the schedule thing is in their favorite too because I think they go AFC South, NFC East. It is. And they have the third place schedule.

所以种种迹象都看好他们。现在胜场盘口还是9.5场，我觉得太离谱了。要是他们拿不下10胜，我绝对会惊掉下巴。

So I just there's a lot of signs pointed to them. And they're over under. It's still nine and a half wins, which I think is crazy. I'd I'd be, like, I'd be genuinely shocked that they didn't win 10 games.

我也这么想，那可就太让人失望了。

Oh, same here. That would be a disappointing year.

除非有人受伤，比如布恩克斯伤退，让替补四分卫打了半个赛季。

It would mean somebody got hurt. It would be like Boonex got hurt, they played it back to backup quarterback for half the year.

哦，贾里德·斯蒂德汉姆。这就是他的妙处——只要他在队里，主力四分卫就永远不会受伤。

Oh, Jared Stidham. That that's what's great about Stidham. Yep. Look. Stidham is the type of quarterback you want because when he's on your team, your quarterback stays healthy.

他一直都是那种‘祝你好运’的态度。但我向肖恩询问了关于武器配置的情况，因为我在自由球员期间试图弄清楚他们会追求谁。

He's he's been like, good luck. But I asked Sean about the whole weapon situation because I I remember during free agency trying to figure out who they were gonna go after.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为我当时想，他们肯定想给这孩子找个帮手。结果他说，现在我们的武器就是跑球战术。我说，好吧，明白了。所以这就是他的方式。

Because I was like, they're gonna they're gonna wanna get this kid somebody. And he's like, my weapon is our run game now. I'm like, alright. Right. So that that that's how he's

这就是埃文·英格拉姆的方式。希望他能为他们接些球。但我喜欢他们的阵容，如果和酋长队逐位置对比，天赋上他们毫不逊色，只是酋长有更成熟的体系。

that's how he's Evan Ingram. So, hopefully, he can catch some balls for them. But I like the way they look. Like, if you go roster versus roster with them and KC, they're right there, talent, talent wise. It's just KC is the infrastructure and most

顺便说，超级碗就在那里。

Super Bowl there, by the way.

不反对。告诉你个小秘密——我在芝加哥跑道上刚参加完体育收藏家大会，飞机延误了十五分钟。我打开FanDuel，本来打算等到八月再下注NFL的。

Not against it. I I little little dirty secret for you. I was on a runway in Chicago coming off from the sports collectors convention, and we didn't we just kinda stalled for fifteen minutes. I went on FanDuel, I started because I was gonna hold off. I was gonna wait until August to make some NFL features.

但我实在等不了了，已经下了几注野马队的赌注，还用几种方式做空了海豚队。具体是哪两笔来着？

I was like, I can't hold off on the Broncos anymore. I'm getting some of these in. I'm getting some Broncos bets in, and I'm shorting Miami in a couple different ways Where are the two things I did?

说来讽刺，帕塞尔斯教练的话总在我年轻时学习报道比赛时回响——那些嚷嚷着要夺冠的球队往往是最烂的。

Well, I am a maybe this is kind of ironic because I feel like Parcells is the one who kind of always was in my head when I was just when I was younger, learning how to cover this game of, you know, the teams that are the ones that allowed screaming that stuff are usually the crappy ones.

确实。

Yeah.

但我连续两年看到有球队真的在践行这点。去年安迪·里德对我说‘我们要三连冠’，特拉维斯·凯尔西在第二个冠军后也对我说过——就是记者追着采访的时候，我问了些‘感觉如何’之类的无聊问题。

But I've now seen it two years in a row where I've had teams be really vocal about it. Like Andy Reid last year, he said to me, he said, we're going for three. I'm like, first of all, Travis Kelce said that to me after they won the second when we were running off the field, like, you know, when the reporters, like, run after them to ask some questions, I was doing that. And I was like, well, you know, whatever boring question I asked, like, how you feel? You know, whatever.

他好像要来个三连冠。我说，三连？什么？哦，连续三次。啥情况？

He's like, going for three. I'm like, three. What? I'm like, oh, three in a row. What?

你们刚赢过。冷静点行吗？但安迪说，我就爱听他们聊这个。虽然他们输了，但你知道，现在他们这么干，丹佛队也在效仿。

You just won. Like, chill. But Andy was like, I I love them talking about that. Like, I want them obviously, they they lost, but, you know, so you got them doing it. You got Denver doing it out.

他们确实有股傲气。这赛季他们信心十足。所以我理解你为什么喜欢野马队。

They got they've they've got some swag there. They're definitely headed into this season confident. So I I I get why you like the Broncos.

你觉得他们能胜过闪电队？对。我也这么想。先休息下，待会儿再认真聊几个话题。

You have them over the chargers? Yes. Yeah. I think so too. Let's take a break, and then we'll do a couple more for reals.

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This episode is brought to you by Yahoo Fantasy. Yahoo Fantasy is the best place to play fantasy football this season. Starting August 4, Yahoo Fantasy dropping 28 big new features over twenty eight days, giving you more ways to play draft and win. Stay tuned and get started by creating or joining a Yahoo Fantasy Football League today at yahoofantasy.com/simmons. That's me.

好了，第三件事——这是真的吗？麦卡·帕森斯这次罢训闹剧到底来真的？新闻铺天盖地，细节就不赘述了。我想说说我的理论。

Alright. Third, is this real? Is the Micah Parsons holdout whatever the hell we're doing for real? It certainly got a lot of lot of news, and we don't have to hash over all the things. I wanna give you my theory.

听着，Netflix即将上线一部牛仔队纪录片，质量相当不错，肯定会引发热议。讲的是杰里·琼斯执掌的90年代牛仔队，这支传奇球队至今让人难忘。你看艾克曼、欧文、埃米特这些球员，甚至包括迪昂，离开牛仔队后依然活跃，杰里本人也是。

Okay. So there's this Cowboys documentary coming out on Netflix, and it's actually really good. And I think it's gonna be a big deal. And it's about the Jerry Jones nineties Cowboys and the celebration of this really meaningful team that I think everybody remembers. And you've guys like Aikman and Irvin and Emmett who even after and Dion, after they played for the Cowboys, they've they've still stayed really relevant as has Jerry.

我怀疑他是不是故意用这些罢训新闻，让整个月人们都在讨论牛仔队，毕竟结局早已注定——他们不可能交易麦卡·帕森斯。就算爱国者队用基昂·韦加两个首轮签和三轮签来换，听起来很诱人...

Part of me wonders, does he just do this sometimes with these holdouts just to get people talking about the cowboys all month when he knows this is how this is gonna end? They're not trading Micah Parsons. Nobody's doing that. That would be that'd be the like, if the patriots offer them Keon Way and two first round picks and a third for Micah Parsons. Like, oh, that's a lot.

但绝不会成交。他是联盟最重要的七名球员之一，尤其在工资帽时代，完全可以把薪水分摊到未来多年，实际影响远小于NBA。我坚信他搞这出就是为了让《First Take》头条讨论牛仔队，制造话题。

You're not doing it. You're keeping he's one of the most seven most important guys in the league. You're not trading him, especially in the salary cap era where you could just push this money into this interminable amount of years, and then, you know, it doesn't actually hate you. It's not like the NBA. I am convinced that he does this shit sometimes just so, like, first take will lead with the cowboys and people write the stories.

我压根不信这套。你觉得这是真的吗？

I don't believe this for a second. Do you think this is real?

我不认为米卡·帕森斯真的会被交易，但我确实觉得他们之间的不和是真实的。

I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is gonna get traded, but I do think the beef is real.

真的吗？

Really?

我觉得在谈判过程中，有时候大家都会说，好吧，你只是在做你需要做的事来争取你的钱，我理解。或者你是在做你需要做的事来保护球队，我也理解。

I think sometimes in negotiations, everyone's like, alright. You're doing what you need to do to get your money. I get it. Or you're doing what you need to do to protect the team. I get it.

眨眨眼，眨眨眼，眨眨眼。但我们最终都会在一起的，啦啦啦。

Wink. Wink. Wink. But we're all gonna be together. La de da.

这次感觉像是私人恩怨。这感觉像是杰里对米卡，而不是达拉斯牛仔队管理层或整个达拉斯牛仔队对米卡。

This feels personal. This this has this feels like it's Jerry versus Micah. This isn't the Dallas Cowboys front office or the Dallas Cowboys in general versus Micah.

是啊。

Yeah.

这种感觉……我觉得很大程度上和杰里公开说的话有关。他在这件事上有点过火了。我通常不会对谈判和人们的言论太过激动，因为我知道这是怎么回事。但这次，从不知道米卡的经纪人是谁，到不提他的名字，再到一直不联系他，还谈论他的伤病。

It it it feels. And I think a lot of it has to do with what Jerry's been saying publicly. He's gone a little overboard on this stuff. And and I don't ever really get crazy about negotiations and how people are talking about stuff because I know how it goes by now. But this with the, you know, not knowing who Micah's agent is from leaving his name out to not contacting him this whole time to talking about his injuries.

所以这感觉不太好。前几天，消息是周五爆出来的。我想应该是周四早上吧，有人给我透露了消息，说米卡·帕森斯的草稿里有一句话，大意是：我不想再做达拉斯牛仔队的球员了。

So it just it doesn't feel great. And the other day so the story broke Friday. So I guess it was Thursday morning. Somebody tipped me off on it. It was like, Micah Parsons has in his drafts a note that basically says, I don't wanna be a Dallas Cowboy anymore.

他的经纪人也知道这件事，他们基本上就是在等待时机，因为你不会主动要求离开达拉斯。没人会这么做，对吧？我们在华盛顿见过，几乎在每个球队都见过。

And his agent's aware of it, and they're basically just waiting to pull the trigger because you don't ask for a trade out of Dallas. Nobody's nobody does that. Right? You we've seen in Washington. We've seen in almost every organization.

大多数人都想成为达拉斯牛仔队的球员，因为为‘美国之队’效力有很多好处。

Most want to be a Dallas cowboy because of all the benefits of playing for, you know, America's team.

这些好处具体是什么？纯粹出于好奇。他们已经有整整三十年没赢过超级碗了。要我说，他们算是NFL最不成功的球队之一，你知道的，跟布朗队那档水平差不多。当然没到那种程度，但过去这些年——大概迈克尔·帕森斯整个职业生涯期间——他们可谈不上什么成功。

What are what are those benefits? Just out of curiosity. They haven't won the Super Bowl in in literally three decades now. And I would say they've been one of the least successful NFL franchises that, you know, you have your Browns level. They're obviously not there, but it's not like they've been rolling in success these last, I don't know, Michael Parson's entire life.

牛仔队从来就没真正强过，我是指具备超级碗竞争力的那种强。

The Cowboys have never been good, like, in the in a Super Bowl contender way. It

但身处其中时感觉完全不同。他们不会...

feels like it though when you're around them, when you're there. They don't

就像个...

It's like a

视觉幻象。他们的外观并不难看——队服不丑，球场也不丑，还总能获得大量关注。

optical illusion. They're they're not ugly looking. They're not they don't ugly uniforms. They don't have an ugly stadium. They get so much attention.

他们被当作顶级豪门对待，实际上却不是。或许有些球员就喜欢这种聚光灯，享受作为达拉斯牛仔队员的名气，而不是真正赢得比赛。

They're treated. They're treated like they're premier, but they're not. And maybe some of them like living in the limelight of that, of the celebrity of being a Dallas cowboy versus, you know, actually being able to win it.

但如果像米卡·帕森斯这样的球员，难道不是赢得比赛带来的光环更吸引人吗？

Isn't it better to be in the limelight of winning though if you're Micah Parsons?

可能他们的希望在于...或许他们真心相信自己能做到？毕竟这是支靠明星效应和商业运作撑起来的球队。

Maybe the hope is that they maybe what it is, they believe that they can do that. Right? I mean, because this is a team that's built on star power based on deals they're doing.

他们就是卡戴珊家族。光鲜亮丽却华而不实——虽然卡戴珊确实很成功。但你细想就会问：真正的才能在哪里？牛仔队同样如此。

It's they're the Kardashians. They're they're it's like all all sizzle and no steak, although the Kardashians are very successful. Understand. But you kind look at it and you go, what are the talents here? And the Cowboys, same thing.

就像在问：核心竞争力是什么？杰里·琼斯算什么？自从他们赶走吉米·约翰逊后...对了，我完全忘了埃米特·史密斯当年因合同纠纷缺席比赛的事。人老了记忆总有疏漏，但他当时和史密斯僵持到临界点，直到替补球员前两场表现糟糕引发球迷暴怒才解决。不知道他现在还敢不敢再来一次——故意不付薪水开赛，等着看会发生什么。

It's like, what are the talents here? What is the Jerry Jones? Like, as soon as they got rid of Jimmy Johnson and by the way, I totally forgot about the Emmett Smith contract holdout where he actually missed games. Because now as you get older, some of this stuff falls through the cracks in your brain, but he went to the precipice with Emmett Smith, and it was not going to be resolved until the replacement guy kinda stunk in the first two games, and the Cowboys fan base went nuts. I wonder if he'd be willing to do that again, to actually go into the season, not paying him to see what happens.

是啊，这么强硬。我很好奇他是否会自我反思，或许我做得不对。对吧？因为光是这几天和人聊起这事，问他们怎么看？

Yeah. To go so hard. I'm curious to see if there's any self reflection from him of maybe I didn't do this right. Right? Because even just talking to people over the last few days about it of, like, what do you think?

你懂吧？大多数人都说，杰瑞以前就和球员做过这种交易。他在这方面是出了名的，比如托尼·罗莫那桩著名案例，他总是试图绕过正规渠道和球员直接谈交易。

You know? You know? And most will tell you, well, Jerry's done these deals before with players. It's he's notorious for these, whether it's I guess Tony Romo's the famous one where he tries to do these deals with players. Right.

就为了避开他们身边的所有人。

To bypass all the people around them.

没错。但问题是，首先这是违法的。合同必须由经纪人处理。可能只有克拉夫特和布雷迪那桩是我知道的另一个案例——他们先私下谈妥，再让经纪人补手续。

Yeah. Whereas it's like, first of all, it's illegal. You need to have an agent do those contracts. I think Kraft, right, with Brady's, maybe the only other owner I know of that kinda did that where they have a conversation and then, you know, they kind of agree to it, and then the agent comes in and does the paperwork, I guess.

听着，所有爱国者队球迷这辈子都达成共识：绝不再提克拉夫特和布雷迪那些台面下的私下交易。

Listen. All Patriot fans have agreed for the rest of our lives never to talk about whatever private under the table stuff Kraft and Brady had.

就像是

As just like

我们绝口不提。不，我们心照不宣。因为我从不觉得公布的薪资数字是布雷迪实际拿到的全部，但我们选择睁只眼闭只眼。

We don't talk about care. No. We don't talk. We because there I I never felt like the salary number was a 100% all the money that was going to Brady, but we we looked the other way.

不可能。

No way.

就是不可能。我们假装没看见。你知道这些大佬能搞多少花样——比如随时调用私人飞机之类的，手段多的是

No way. We looked the other way. You know all the stuff these these guys can do. Like, use use the plane whenever you want. There's like a million different

我懂。

I know.

变通方案。听着，投资我们正在投的这个项目。你应该这么做。这能带来收益。

Workarounds. Here, invest in this thing we're investing in. You should do this. It's gonna make this.

比如说，有

Like, there's

很多可以操作的空间。

a lot of stuff you can do.

我休赛期刚和一位老板聊过这事，他们为球员规划的方案，这个特定组织在投资方面的安排，他们与投资集团建立的合作关系，都是老板和组织层面为球员铺设的

I've just had a conversation with an owner over the off season about that, of things that they lay out for their players, this specific organization in terms of investment, things that they have set up for relationships that the owner and the organization have with these investment groups

是啊。

Yeah.

这些能帮球员赚钱。这就像是通过少拿薪水来帮助球队应对工资帽的最佳方式，同时还能赚到在公开市场上可能获得的所有收入。

That help the players make money. It's like it's the best way to help your team through with the salary cap by taking less money and then still be able to make all the money that you probably could get on the open market.

我不认为杰里·琼斯会对迈克尔·帕森斯这么做。

I don't think Jerry Jones is doing that with Michael Parsons.

我也觉得他不会对迈克尔·帕森斯这样。我猜他只是花了一天半时间和帕森斯谈话，自以为只是普通交流。但众所周知，从迈卡的角度看，他觉得是谈话，杰里却当成了协议。牛仔队——至少杰里·琼斯的立场是：看啊，我对其他球员都这样。

I don't think he's doing that with Michael Parsons. I think he's sitting Michael Parsons down for a day and a half and talking to him what he thinks is just a conversation. You know, Micah's perspective, as we know, he thought it was a conversation. Jerry thought that was a deal. And and and look, I think the Cowboys' perspective on it, at least Jerry Jones' perspective on it is like, look, I've done this with other players.

我让达克和我合作时，达克说'不，去和我的经纪人托德·弗朗斯谈'。对，他们就是这么处理的。而迈卡全程没表态。

I asked Dak to do it with me, and Dak said, no. Talk to Todd France, my agent. Yeah. And that's that's how they did it. And Micah never spoke up.

迈卡从没说过那句话。我觉得这就是杰里的理解。但显然，迈克尔·帕森斯才二十多岁。

Micah never said that. And I think that's how Jerry sees it. Whereas, obviously, Michael Parsons mid twenties.

但他怎么可能知道如何正确操作？和一个做过无数交易的老板打交道？这太荒谬了。

But what how does he know how to do a Correct. A deal with the owner who's made a kajillion deals? Like, that's ridiculous.

这...这很可疑。而且

It's it's shady. And

确实可疑。

It's shady.

所以最初的问题是：这是真的吗？我同意你的看法。我不认为他们在认真对待他。我已经联系过几支球队，甚至联系了达拉斯队，但他们连对话都没开始。

That's why I think this is the the original question was, is this real? I'm with you. I don't think they're treating him. I have spoken to teams. I've already reached out to Dallas, and it's not even like they're having a conversation.

是啊，他们直接挂电话了。

Yeah. They're just getting hung up on.

对方态度就是'随便吧'，就像我们在讨论其他球员一样。

You're just like, whatever. It's like, we talk about other players.

三个首轮签对你来说疯狂吗？不，纯粹好奇问问？因为你知道，我骨子里是NBA思维——球员交易司空见惯。但选秀权和交易越来越离谱了。

Is three first crazy for you? No. Just out of curiosity? Because I you know, I'm in I have the NBA DNA where the people get traded all the time. The picks and the trades have gotten crazier and crazier and crazier.

NFL几乎从不见这种操作。偶尔会有卡里尔·麦克这样的交易，但大多数球队不这么干。而且如果有这样的球员，薪资帽机制允许你把钱不断往后推，就像永远不用付的账单。帕森斯这事在我看来很简单。

We don't really see it ever with the NFL. Like, we'll have, like, the occasional Khalil Mack trade. But for the most part, teams just don't do it that way. And if you have one of these guys, the way the cap works, where you can just keep pushing that money way down the road and almost like this dinner bill that you just get to keep putting on credit, never have to pay. Like, the Parsons thing to me is easy.

直接付钱就完了。

Just pay them.

要是有球队交易来迈卡·帕森斯，表弟萨尔怕是要去跳桥了。

Who's the team that trades for Micah Parsons and Cousin Sal just, like, jumps off a bridge.

对我来说和Sal最理想的播客话题就是爱国者队。那会是整件事最搞笑的结局——如果他真的加盟爱国者还表现超神，我们打出12胜5负战绩，而我每场季前赛都穿着帕森斯球衣。纯粹为了节目效果，这对我来说会是最有趣的展开。这个点子不错。

The best for the podcast for me and Sal is the Patriots. That would be the absolute funniest outcome of all of this. If he if and then he was just awesome on the Patriots, and we went, like, twelve and five, but I was wearing a Parsons jersey for every pilot. Just for content, that would be the most fun for me. That's a good one.

Pete，首先，人们编造假交易时提到的那些球队——猜怎么着？他们根本不会和华盛顿、费城或巨人队交易。直接把这些队划掉。他们不会和同区球队交易，真要交易也只会找美联球队，但他们压根不会交易。

Pete, first of all, there were teams mentioned when people make up the fake trades. Like, guess what? They're not trading them to Washington or Philadelphia or the Giants. Just cross those teams off. They're not trading with those teams, and they would probably trade in the AFC if they're trading them, but they're not trading them.

所以这根本不成立。

So it's a moot point.

要是去了个弱队该多搞笑，比如泰坦队。或者美洲虎队之类的。感觉就...

How funny it'd be if it was just, like, a lame team, you know, like the Titans. You Like the Jags. It's like, half

美洲虎之类的。好吧我们达成共识了。我还是觉得Jerry在炒作这事，因为他喜欢人们讨论牛仔队。有趣的是，我原本预测他们会在国联6-8号种子区间。

Jags and everything. Alright. So we agree. I still feel like Jerry milks this stuff because he I think he likes when people are discussing the cowboys. What's interesting is I actually kinda thought I had them break right in the six to eight seed range in the NFC.

他们确实有天赋，Dak也回归了。按赛程看他们打出10胜7负我也不会惊讶。但如果解决不了帕森斯的问题，他们就做不到。

Like, do have talent. Dak's back. It wouldn't surprise me if they with their schedule, if they went, like, ten and seven. But if they don't figure the Parsons thing out, they're not going to.

是啊。我...我更好奇的是，因为Micah的经纪人是当年代理Deshaun Watson的那位大佬，我在想他们的策略是不是一旦申请交易就铁了心要走。你看华盛顿的Terry McLaurin情况就不同...

Yeah. I I I'm interested to see here's the other thing too. Because Micah is repped by such a powerful agent, just the same agent that repped Deshaun Watson, that I wonder if the philosophy there is like once you ask for a trade, like, this is we want out. Whereas we'll we're seeing in Washington with Terry McLaurin.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得Terry根本不想离开华盛顿。

I don't think Terry wants to leave Washington.

当然不会交易。他们是要冲击超级碗的，交易他能换来什么？

No. They're not trading. They're trying to win the Super Bowl. What are they gonna get

对他来说？最幸福的人了。没错，特里是最棒的。对吧？

for him? Happiest guy. Yeah. Terry's the best. Right?

就像，他就这么四处溜达，跟四分卫的妈妈聊天。打个招呼，各位。我只想...我只想拿到31、32（岁合同）。拜托了，我知道下周就30了，但请付钱给我。

Like, he's just, like, walking around, talking to his quarterback's mom. Just like, hey, everybody. I just want I just wanna make 31, 32. Come on, please. I know I'm gonna be 30 next week, but just pay me.

特雷·亨德里克森这事挺有意思，因为他看起来想留队。他有点过度分享信息，会长篇大论自己的价值和对本钢人的感情。但说真的，这可是出了名抠门的球队啊。而且他是队里唯一真正靠谱的防守支柱，所以我猜他会回来。

Well, the Trey Hendrickson thing is interesting because he seems like he wants to stay. He's kinda TMI ing some of the information. He's gonna do long dissertations about his worth and his feelings about the Bengals, but, I mean, talk about a cheap franchise. And he's the only, you know, the only really good defense support they have. So, I assume he will come back.

但帕森斯就难说了，要是帕森斯表态说'我不会回来'...

Parsons, though, who knows? If Parsons was like, I'm not gonna be back.

关键在于你有没有这个魄力？我觉得问题在这儿。这事让人不舒服，很别扭。大多数优秀球员被灌输的理念是为团队牺牲——尽管这本质是门生意。

It's do you have the stomach for it? I think that's what it is. It's uncomfortable. It's weird. It's these guy most good players are taught that it's about the team despite the fact that it is a business.

他们成长的运动文化强调体育精神。我和特雷·亨德里克森聊过很多次，你说得对，他确实花大量时间向公众表明：他只是想要匹配身价的报酬。

They're coming from the culture of It's about the good things in sport. And I do think Trey Hendrickson, who, you know, I talked to him, I've been in touch with him a lot during this. And you're right, like he spends a lot of time making sure, you know and the public knows that his intentions here are to just get the money he's worth,

他的家人似乎很受伤。

that his family seem hurt.

换你难道不会吗？

Oh, well, wouldn't it yours?

是啊，尤其是马克斯·克拉斯比那边已经安排妥当了。

Yeah. Well, especially with Max Krasby, he's take care of.

想象你是公司骨干，老板给其他部门明星发高薪，却不愿给你想要的保障条款。而且他的要求并不过分——我私下咨询过其他球队'你们愿意给特雷两年保障合同吗'，所有人都说愿意。这事根本不难办。

Own your company, and the owner of your company was paying everybody else who was a star on the other side of the ball, but didn't wanna pay you and give you the guarantees that you wanted. And it's not like he's asking for anything so outlandish because I've done kind of some of the back work on that. I'm just, like, asking other teams, like, would you give Trey two years guaranteed? Everyone's like, yes. Like, it's it's it's not that hard to do.

但辛辛那提就是那种不像费城、休斯顿或洛杉矶那样运作的球队。他们不会冒进。

But Cincinnati is just one of those teams that don't operate like sin that don't operate like Philly. They don't operate like Houston. They don't operate like LA. They don't get ahead.

没错。这就引出了下一个实质性问题——克利夫兰真的是2025年最差的球队吗？我提到他们是因为他们和猛虎队一样有点运作混乱，只不过猛虎队天赋更高。

Right. Well, that leads to the next for real. Is Cleveland the worst 2025 team for real? And I bring them up because it's it's a little bit dysfunctional along the lines of the Bengals. The Bengals have more talent.

但本质上都是——场下什么样，场上就什么样，这种问题在NFL总会反噬。看看克利夫兰，四分卫位置已经一团糟，沃特森的合同是多年来最严重的薪资枷锁。我看不到他们能赢四场以上的可能。如果要赌哪支球队会创下赛季最差战绩——这总是博彩开盘时的热门选项——我会选克利夫兰或新奥尔良，这两队实在太明显了。

But same kind of like, you are who you are behind the scenes, and then the NFL that always comes back to bite you. I look at Cleveland, the quarterback thing's already a mess. The Watson thing is one of the biggest cap cripplers we've had in a long, long time. And I don't see a scenario where they win like four games. And they like, to me, if you were saying who's gonna have the worst record in the week, which is always a fun one to bet on when people put those odds up, I would go either Cleveland or New Orleans, I think are just the most obvious too.

至少新奥尔良还有些积极声音，比如他们有些不错的年轻球员，新教练组也到位了，或许能有点冲劲。但克利夫兰我看不到任何希望。

They seem New Orleans at least like there's some good buzz about, oh, they they have some good young players and the new coaching staffs in place, and maybe they'll be like a little bit frisky. I don't see it at all with Cleveland.

乔·弗拉科没让你改观吗？

Joe Flacco's not doing it for you?

不，完全没有。他去年表现糟透了。

No. No. He's not. I thought he was terrible last year.

但他上次和斯蒂芬斯基合作时可不差。

Yeah. He wasn't terrible when he was with Stefanski the last time.

那都是三年前了。

That was three years ago.

他们23年还进了季后赛呢。

I mean, they went to the playoffs in '23. So

他现在都四十多岁了。说实话，我对所有四十岁的四分卫都不看好，布雷迪把大家的认知都搞乱了——我常说这个，他根本是个特例。

He's in his forties now. I in general, I'm I'm blind out on all forties quarterbacks, and I think Brady messed up everybody's brains. I've talked about this before. Brady was an anomaly me.

四十多岁。比如前几天我醒来时脖子僵硬，我就想，我这是怎么了？然后我谷歌了一下，结果发现自己得了脑膜炎，十五小时内就会死。我当时就懵了，什么情况？

Forties. Like, I I woke up with a stiff neck the other day. I'm like, what is happening to me? And I Googled it, And I have meningitis, and I'm gonna be dead in fifteen hours. Like, I was like, what?

到底怎么回事？但确实，我经常这样干，这种行为特别烦人，就像...

What is happening? But yeah. Which I do that all the time, which is such an obnoxious thing to do, like, as a

你在谷歌上自我诊断？是啊。

You self diagnose on Google? Yeah.

比那更糟。而且我还试图把自己想象成同龄的球员，你知道吧。如果球员和我年纪相仿，我就...

Better than that. But also, I, like, try to, like, think of myself as the player, you know, at my age. If the player's close at my age, and I'll just be

就像你四十多岁了。你不得不这样。因为每年你都会看着某些机能开始衰退。比如，哦，我视力不如从前了。怎么回事？

like You're forties. You have to. Because you watch you watch stuff start to go by the wayside every year. It's like, oh, I can't see as well anymore. What happened?

我拿我父母做参照。懂吗？比如我爸72岁。我看到像贝利奇克（注：橄榄球教练）这样的人就会想，我爸...

I do it with my my parents. Right? Like, my dad's 72. And, I'll see, like, Belichick, for example. I'm like, my dad

嗯。

Yeah.

整天只看《朱迪法官》节目。任何21、22岁的年轻人根本不会多看他一眼，他也不知道和年轻人聊什么。他只会说：我们能打个盹吗？你懂吧。

Just watches Judge Judy all day. Like, there's no way any 21 year old or 22 year old is even looking his way nor would he even know what to say to her. He would be like, can we take a nap? You know? Right.

一天要睡三次。所以我忍不住总是这样联想。说到乔·弗拉科（注：橄榄球员），确实如此...

Three times a day. So I it's just like I can't help myself, but I do it all the time. So to your point with Joe Flacco, like, yeah. Like,

罗杰斯也一样。这就是为什么我对罗杰斯兴奋不起来。这些家伙都四十多岁了。

it's same for Rogers. It's like that's why I I'm not gonna get excited about Rogers. Like, these guys are in their forties.