春季预览：我们期待的几本新书

我是吉尔伯特·克鲁兹，《纽约时报》书评编辑，这里是书评播客。今年早些时候，我邀请了我们的常驻嘉宾、我的同事编辑朱玛娜·卡提布，来讨论2025年前几个月即将出版的一些书籍。现在她回来了，就在这儿，我们将再次进行这样的对话。聊聊从现在到六月乃至夏季期间，我们感兴趣的几本即将问世的新书。

I'm Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review, and this is the book review podcast. Earlier this year, I had on our regular guest, my fellow editor, Jumanah Katib, to talk about some books coming out in the first couple months of 2025. She's back. She's here, and we're gonna do it again. Talking about a few books we're interested in that are coming up between now and June and the summer.

舒玛娜，欢迎回到播客——我每次都需要说这句开场白吗？

Shumana, welcome back to the pod do I need to say this every time?

我觉得...怎么说呢，我感觉这个播客工作室的大门永远为我敞开，这按理说应该让我有点紧张才对。

I feel like I feel well I feel that the door is always open to this podcast studio, which I suppose should also make me somewhat nervous.

可你直接就走进来了啊。

Well, you walked right in.

我简直是翩然而入。

I waltzed right in.

从现在到夏季会有大量新书上市，我们没法全部讨论，甚至大部分都谈不到，但我们会重点介绍几本。第一本由你来推荐，其实已经上市了，刚刚发行的新书。

There are so many books coming up between now and summertime. We cannot talk about all of them. We can't even talk about most of them, but we are gonna talk about a few. And the first one, which you're gonna mention, is out now essentially. Just came out.

这本书的作者我想很多听众应该都不陌生，给我们介绍一下吧。

It's a book from a name that I think many of our listeners might be familiar with. Tell us about it.

好的。没错。这是奇玛曼达·恩戈兹·阿迪契亚的《梦之计数》。我们很久没看到她的虚构作品了，至少十年。她确实是那种——如果现在还有文学巨星的话，她就是其中之一。

Okay. Yes. So this is Dream Count by Chimamanda Ngozi Aditya. It's been a long time since we've seen a work of fiction from her, at least a decade. And she really is like a if there to the extent that there are still literary, like, rock stars, she is one.

对吧？碧昂斯引用过她的话。还有那些印着她名言的精装礼品书。她可是个大人物。能再次接触她的小说，看看她在写什么，真是件乐事。

Right? We got Beyonce quoting her. We got, you know, gift editions with her quotes. Like, she's a big deal. And it's a pleasure to reencounter her fiction and just see what she's up to.

这个故事讲述了疫情期间四位非洲女性的生活。主角是奇娅，一位旅居美国的尼日利亚旅行作家。故事还包括她的表妹、闺蜜，以及来自几内亚的女佣卡迪奥图。其他角色都是尼日利亚人。这是一个关于母爱、浪漫爱情、亲情以及女性联结的故事。

So this is the story of four African women set during the pandemic. It's centered on Chia, who is a Nigerian travel writer who's based in States. And it also includes her cousin, her best friend, and this woman named Kadiotu, who is her maid, who's from Guinea. So she's Guinean, and everybody else is Nigerian. And this is a story about motherhood and romantic love and familial love, and it's and female connection.

这本书有个有趣的创作背景。阿迪契亚在疫情期间经历了巨大创伤——疫情初期父亲去世，不到九个月后母亲也离世。她在悼念母亲时形容自己'被彻底击垮'（用了'excavated'这个词）。她开始写小说，以此表达对母亲深深的思念。

And it has an interesting backstory because Adichie wrote this. I mean, she had a really harrowing pandemic experience herself. Her father died fairly early on in the pandemic, and less than nine months later, she lost her mother. So when she was grieving her mother, it sounds like she was really just bowled over excavated, I think is the word she used. She started writing fiction as a way to tap into how much she wanted her mother still around her.

这是个非常优美而丰富的故事。另一个有趣之处是——不知道你是否记得2011年（距今近15年）的多米尼克·斯特劳斯-卡恩性侵案。

And so this is a very beautiful and rich story. And the other thing that's pretty interesting about it is that I don't know if you remember from god. This is almost fifteen years now. 2011, the Dominique Strauss Kahn Mhmm. Sexual assault case.

阿迪契亚密切关注这个案件，并将案件元素融入故事。案件中的女佣纳菲索图·迪亚洛指控这位看似不可撼动的法国政要进行极其恶劣的性侵。阿迪契亚把部分女佣经历编织进卡迪奥图的故事线，完善了这个角色背景。虽然取材沉重，但这本书确实引人入胜。

So that is a case that Edithier followed very closely, and she wove elements of that story. So this is a case where a maid, Nafisotou Diallo, accused, you know, this sort of big seemingly impenetrable French politician of sexual assault, very graphic sexual assault. And so Edithier wove some of the maid story into Cardiotu's story and gave it a backstory and built out that character. So she was drawing on some heavy stuff, but it's a really interesting and toothsome book.

听起来很有意思。我们这里的编辑莉兹·伊根（也为书评撰写专题）刚为奇玛曼达做了人物特写，写得非常精彩。听众们一定要看看那篇报道，然后读读这本书。

It sounds quite interesting. Liz Egan, an editor here who also writes features for the book review, just profiled Chimamanda, wrote a very wonderful profile. So you should definitely check that out, listeners, and then pick up this book.

现在已经发布了。

Which is out now.

现在已发布。我们今年早些时候提到过这本。我们还提到过下一本，就是我要说的那本，今年早些时候也提过。没关系，有时候需要提醒。

It's out now. We mentioned that one earlier this year. We also mentioned the next one, the one I'm gonna talk about earlier this year. That's fine. Sometimes you need reminders.

这本书叫《收割时分的日出》，作者是苏珊·柯林斯，是《饥饿游戏》世界观的另一部作品。杰尔玛娜，你读过这个系列的书吗？

This is called Sunrise on the Reaping. This is by Suzanne Collins, and it is another book set in the world of the Hunger Games. Jermana, have you ever read any of these books?

我没读过，但还算熟悉。它已经渗透进我的意识里了。

I haven't read them, but I'm familiar enough. It's suffused my consciousness.

好吧。

Okay.

凯妮丝，幸福生活，从无烦恼。

Katniss, happy life, no problems ever.

我们都想活得像凯妮丝那样，自己打猎觅食。她可能还自己捡鸡蛋，考虑到现在的物价，我们都该这么做了。嗯哼。才怪。她过得可惨了。

We all wanna live like Katniss lived, having to hunt for our own food. She probably got her own eggs, which is what we all should be doing now given prices. Mhmm. No. She lived a miserable life.

这就像她生活的反乌托邦世界。《饥饿游戏》系列最初有三部曲，几年后作者苏珊·柯林斯写了一部前传，而这是另一部前传。这本书的故事背景设定在首部《饥饿游戏》小说约二十五年前，围绕着一位名叫海米奇·阿伯纳西的角色展开。海米奇。

This is like a a dystopian world in which she lives in. There was an initial trilogy of books in the Hunger Games series, and then Suzanne Collins, the author, wrote a prequel several years ago, and this is another prequel. This is a book that is set almost a quarter century before the first Hunger Games novel, and it involves this character named Haymitch Abernathy. Hamich.

当然知道海米奇。

Sure know Hamich.

酷名字。

Cool name.

好名字。

Great name.

我们是在第一本书中认识这个角色的，他酗酒、放荡，曾是饥饿游戏的冠军，在那本书中他的职责是引导凯特尼斯适应这个世界。而这次讲的是年轻时的海米奇。这个系列沉寂多年后似乎正迎来重启——不仅有这些前传和电影改编（本作电影版明年上映），刚宣布的《饥饿游戏》舞台剧也将在伦敦开幕，我记得是今年年底。剧院正在专为这部戏建造。

He is a guy who we meet in the first book, and he's drunk, and he's dissolute, and he's a former champion of The Hunger Games, and it's his job in that book to, like, shepherd Katniss through through this world. And it's like young Hamich. And it arrives at a moment when the franchise seems to have restarted after many many years in the dark. Not only do you have this these prequels and film versions, there's a film version of this coming out next year, but also just announced a stage adaptation of The Hunger Games is gonna open in London, I think at the end of this year. And a theater is being built exclusively for this production.

太疯狂了。

That is bonkers.

他们会这么演，比如人们会朝你脑袋扔三叉戟。具体情节我不太确定，但...

They're gonna say it, like, people are gonna throw Tridents by your head. I'm not sure exactly what's gonna go on, but

听起来像是蓝人乐团。

it Sounds like Blue Man Group.

是啊，没错。我觉得这会是个大事件。这些书都是重磅作品，我有点想看看这个舞台改编版。

Yeah. It's yeah. I think it's gonna be a big deal. These books are all big deals, and I sort of wanna see this stage adaptation.

感觉你得签个免责协议吧？

It seems like you would have to sign a waiver. Right?

你是说你觉得会有危险？

Are you saying you think you would be in danger?

对，我就是这个意思。

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

至少在预演期间。等正式开演后，你觉得他们会把所有问题都解决掉。

At least in the for the previews. Once it officially opens, you think they work out all the kinks.

太阳马戏团已经够致命了，饥饿游戏会是什么样我简直不敢想。

I'm amazed at how deadly, like, Cirque du Soleil is, so I can only imagine what the Hunger Games is.

你看过太阳马戏团的表演吗？

Have you seen any Cirque du Soleil?

我几乎看过太阳马戏团所有的

I've seen almost the entire back catalog of Cirque du

保留剧目。真的吗？

Soleil. Really?

我可不是在开玩笑。

I'm not even kidding.

我要记下这个信息

I'm gonna store this information

哦，没错。我们可以用这个聊上一年。

Oh, yeah. We can use this for like a year.

接下来呢？

What's next?

好的。我很兴奋能聊聊《野牛猎人》。

Okay. I'm excited to talk about the Buffalo Hunter.

这名字起得真棒。

This is a great name.

多好的标题啊。

Such a good title.

确实是个好标题。

It's a good title.

这个标题太出色了。这是史蒂芬·格雷厄姆·琼斯的作品，他是位非常高产的恐怖小说作家。他常写关于原住民保留地上原住民角色的故事，而这是个吸血鬼题材。大致情节是：1912年发现了一份手稿，里面记录了一位名叫'好刺'的黑脚族战士的忏悔录。他被欧洲殖民者带来的神秘生物咬伤后，突然被嗜血欲望吞噬。

Such a good title. So this is by Stephen Graham Jones, who is like this kind of tremendously prolific horror writer. He tends to write a lot of stories that are set on native reservations about native characters, and this is a vampire story. So basically what happens, there's a manuscript that's discovered in 1912, and it contains a transcribed confessions of a Blackfeet warrior whose name is Goodstab. And he was bitten by a mysterious creature that seems to have been imported by European settlers.

为满足嗜血欲望，'好刺'开始袭击部落周边的白人。故事融入了复杂的种族政治元素，史蒂芬·格雷厄姆·琼斯还结合了19世纪蒙大拿州黑脚族真实大屠杀的历史细节，同时巧妙杂糅了神话传说与历史恐怖小说的元素。

And all of a sudden, Good Stab is just overcome with bloodthirst. And to sate his thirst, he really goes after the whites that are surrounding his community. There are all sorts of racial politics going on. Stephen Graham Jones actually weaves in some actual historical details from a true massacre of Blackfeet in Montana in the eighteen hundreds. And at the same time, he's sort of riffing on myth and lore and, like, historical horror fiction.

虽然信息量很大，但读起来非常过瘾。

There's a lot going on, but it's a lot of fun.

你读过斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆·琼斯的书吗？读过。

Have you ever read Stephen Graham Jones? Yes.

读过。读过。《我曾是少年杀手》。

Yes. Yes. I was a teenage slasher.

那是本非常好的书。

That is a very good book.

确实是本好书。他写得很好。只是我觉得他其实并不...呃我可能不该这么说，毕竟我不是经常读恐怖小说的人。众所周知，我不喜欢被吓到。

It's a good book. And He's good. I just feel like he's do not that actually, I I probably shouldn't say that because I'm not somebody who reads a lot of horror. Famously, I don't love to be scared.

众所周知。

Famously.

众所周知。

Famously.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

我在很多次热线节目中都说过这话。而且，我对他在这里的所作所为很感兴趣。我理解他的做法。

I've said that on many a Hot Mike. And, I mean, I'm intrigued by what he's doing here. I get it.

去年十月他上过书评播客节目。

He was on the Book Review podcast last October.

打赌他是个好嘉宾。

Bet he was a good guest.

他表现得非常出色。当时他在为听众推荐恐怖小说阅读清单，学识渊博到令人惊叹。我很想再采访他一次。我四月份有本新书要出版，是非虚构类作品，探讨美国原住民的生存现状。这本书叫《药河》，讲述生存故事与印第安寄宿学校遗留问题的交织。

He was very good. He was talking he was making recommendations for scary books for people to read, and he knows just a ton. He'd I'd love to talk to him again. I have a book that's coming out in April, and it has to deal with, in a nonfiction way, the indigenous experience here in America. This is a book called Medicine River, a story of survival and the legacy of Indian boarding schools.

作者是玛丽·安妮特·彭伯。去年小说家汤米·奥兰治做客本播客讨论《游荡之星》，这本继《那里那里》后的续作——后者是他的现象级处女作。《游荡之星》部分内容涉及十九世纪中叶原住民儿童被迫入读的寄宿学校。身为奥吉布瓦族记者的玛丽·安妮特·彭伯，因其母亲曾亲历这类学校而对这段历史有着深刻认知。

This is by Marie Annette Pember. So last year, Tommy Orange, the novelist Tommy Orange, he joined this podcast to talk about Wandering Stars. Wandering Stars was his sequel to There There, which was his incredibly received debut novel. And Wandering Stars was in part about these boarding schools that indigenous children were sent to in in the mid eighteen hundreds. And Mary Annette Pember, who's an Ojibwe journalist, she is very intimately familiar with these schools because her mother had to attend one of these schools.

她母亲当年被迫进入威斯康星州的神学院。这些孩子被送往基督教寄宿学校，校方强行灌输基督教文化，抹除他们原生文化的所有痕迹。玛丽的母亲就读期间深受其害，

She had to attend a seminary in Wisconsin. These children were sent to Christian boarding schools. They tried to force Christian culture into their lives and remove any sign of their own indigenous culture. So Mary's mother went to one of these. They had a great effect on her mother.

这种创伤也延续到了玛丽身上。虽然我尚未拜读此书，但据我所知，她将个人家族叙事与这些持续数十年的恐怖学校的历史经纬交织在了一起。

It's had a great effect on her. So I haven't read the book yet, but as I understand it, she weaves her personal story in with the history of these terrible schools that lasted for decades and decades.

而这些仍存在于人们的鲜活记忆中。我是说，这恰恰是最令人震惊的。这段历史近在咫尺，却又如此骇人。好了，我要换个话题了。

And that are still within living memory. I mean, that's the thing that's astonishing. It's like how close this history really is, and it's horrifying. Okay. I'm gonna swerve.

很好。我要把话题转向——

Good. I'm gonna swerve away from

我们不可能只读严肃书籍。

We can't have all serious books.

没错，确实不能。我个人已经准备好像抛烫手山芋一样切到不那么沉重的话题了。所以我要聊聊艾米丽·亨利的新作《盛大而美丽的人生》，她现在堪称——不，根本无需修饰语——当代爱情小说巨星。

No. We can't. We can't. I am personally ready to hot potato into a less depressing topic. So I am going to talk about great big beautiful life by Emily Henry, who is somewhat of a actually not somewhat, no qualifier needed, romance superstar right now.

这是她的第六部爱情小说。读者对她的作品如痴如醉，《书迷》《海滩读物》《度假邂逅的人》，粉丝们对她的爱情故事有着近乎狂热的喜爱。艾米丽·亨利式浪漫有几个标志性特点：她笔下的男主角都是进化完全、聪明细腻的男性。

This is her sixth romance. People go nuts for her books. Book lovers, beach read, the people we meet on vacation, people are very fiercely attached to her romances. And there are a couple things that are like the hallmark of an Emily Henry romance. Her love interests are all evolved, intelligent, sensitive men.

而女主角则聪慧独立，通常还带着某种悲伤的维度。这些爱情故事可谓耐人寻味。新作讲述两位作家从竞争关系转变为——你猜对了——萌芽恋情的故事，他们争夺为一位隐居在佐治亚州海岸的前八卦女王撰写传记的机会。这位传奇女性有过辉煌人生后突然销声匿迹，对任何记者来说都是个诱人的选题，设定相当有趣。

And then her female leads are very intelligent, independent, and they usually have some dimension of grief. So I mean, these are sort of toothsome romances. So this new one is about the rivalry turned, what else, budding romance between two writers who are competing for the chance to land the opportunity to write the biography of this former tabloid princess who's now become somewhat of a recluse on in Coastal Georgia. She had this fabulous life story and then totally disappeared. So this is a good juicy get for any competitive journalist, and it's a fun setup.

艾米丽·亨利的书年年畅销。我在之前的播客里提过，去年度假时读过她一本小说，简直让人爱不释手。刚结束的奥斯卡季被鲍勃·迪伦霸屏，但别忘了披头士啊。嘿。

Emily Henry's books are always a hit every year. I read I had mentioned previously in this podcast, I read one of hers last year on vacation. It was a total delight. We're coming out of an Oscar season in which Bob Dylan's dominated, but let's not forget the Beatles. Hey.

披头士。披头士。又是披头士。我们还需要更多关于他们的书吗？我我我经常这么问，因为感觉每年都会出好几本。

The Beatles. The Beatles. The Beatles. Do we need more Beatles books? I I I ask this question often because they come out couple every year, it feels like.

但眼前这本确实有个有趣的设定。这本《约翰与保罗：歌曲中的爱情故事》由伊恩·莱斯利所著。虽然鲍勃·迪伦是个独树一帜的天才——你刚才为什么翻白眼？

But there is another one and actually has an interesting conceit. So this is John and Paul, a love story in songs. This is by a gentleman named Ian Leslie. And while Bob Dylan is a genius, an individual genius, why did you just roll your eyes?

我在眨眼。

I'm blinking.

哦，你没事。约翰·列侬和保罗·麦卡特尼，他们就像这样。

Oh, you're okay. He's John Lennon and Paul McCartney are they're like this.

嗯哼。他正在交叉手指玩翻花绳。

Mhmm. He's interlacing his fingers like he's doing cat's cradle.

我也在交叉手指。他们是真正伙伴关系的典范。对吧？两人都写歌词，都谱曲。

I'm interlacing my fingers. They're an example of a true partnership. Right? They both wrote lyrics. They both wrote music.

近200首歌的创作名单上永远并列着他们的名字，其中有些我敢说是有史以来最伟大的作品。

Their names together were on all of their songs. They both shared credit on almost 200 songs, some of which I would argue are some of the best songs ever written.

我我对此毫不怀疑。我毫不怀疑。我笑是因为昨晚刚重看了《我为喜剧狂》的《约旦女王》那集

I I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. I'm I'm laughing because I just rewatched the Queen of Jordan episode of 30 Rock last night

好吧。

Okay.

安吉那段'披头士是谁'的表演简直太棒了。

Where Angie sort of like, who are the Beatles? It's so good.

你现在看我的眼神就是那样对吧

That's the look you're giving me right

现在。行吧。随便。

now. Okay. Whatever.

所以这本书讲的是他们的友谊。讲的是他们作为词曲创作搭档的故事。讲的是他们作为乐队双主唱的关系。我可能会读。这本我可能真的会读。

So this book is about their friendship. It's about their songwriting partnership. It's about their relationship as the two leads of this band. I might read it. I might actually read this one.

有本书我绝对要重读，因为关于披头士的书太多，而关于这个人的书太少，那就是大卫·谢夫写的《小野洋子传》。当然，这两本书出版时间只隔两周。约翰和保罗的书三月底出，洋子的书四月初出。这是本关于小野洋子的大部头传记。我们都知道她在六十年代中后期进入披头士的轨道。

One book I'm definitely gonna read, again, because there are too many books about the Beatles and not enough books about this person, is Yoko the Biography by David Sheff. Of course, these two books are coming out within two weeks of each other. The John and Paul book in late March, the Yoko book in in early April. And this is a big biography of Yoko Ono. We all know she entered the orbit of the Beatles in the mid to late sixties.

她与约翰·列侬开始交往并结婚。多年来，人们对小野洋子多有诋毁，但她其实非常了不起。她刚满92岁，最近似乎很少公开露面。

She and John Lennon started dating. They got married. Many people have said many bad things about Yoko Ono over the years, but she is amazing. She just turned 92. I don't think she's been in public sight for a while.

她出生于东京，父母移民美国。作为概念艺术家出道，一生坚持艺术创作——无论是与列侬共同生活期间，还是八十年代初列侬遇刺后的岁月。尽管有些人仍难以将她从'列侬妻子'的标签中剥离（但愿这种观念早已过时），但她本人就拥有传奇人生，其独立艺术生涯同样精彩卓绝。

She was born in Tokyo. Her parents immigrated over to America, and she's an artist. She started as a conceptual artist. She continued to make art throughout her life and her life with John Lennon and her life post John Lennon's death in the early eighties. And while I think it might be impossible for some to extricate her from the idea of just being John Lennon's wife, hopefully, a view that went the way of the Dota long ago, she is a person with fascinating life, an interesting, an impressive career in her own right.

如今她在公众视野的时间已远超当年与披头士的关联。关于她的故事和成就，实在有太多值得探讨之处。

She's been in the public eye for decades longer than she ever was with the Beatles at this point. I think there's so much to learn about her and to say about her.

确实令人兴奋。这其中还蕴含着某种修复性正义的意味，很有意思。我对小野洋子的了解肯定还很肤浅。

I'm excite yeah. And there's some sort of restorative justice that goes along with this, and that's intriguing. And I'm sure there is so much I do not know about Yoko Ono.

知道我最确定什么吗？她是纽约之光。嘿，她可是纽约的骄傲。

You know what I do know? Great New Yorker. Hey. She's a great New Yorker.

嘿，能得到你这样的评价真是至高荣誉。

Hey. That's a high compliment coming from you.

你接下来有什么计划？

What's next for you?

我一直在喋喋不休地谈论小说，我保证会回到小说的话题，但让我们先快速转向非虚构作品。我期待瓦希尼·哈瓦拉的《搜寻》，她曾凭借小说《不朽的国王拉奥》入围普利策奖。她过去是并持续担任科技记者。这本新书是一部散文集，形式上具有实验性，但都围绕着——我认为尤其对我们这些所谓的数字原住民（即基本上从有记忆起就接触互联网的人）——互联网如何影响了我们的意识和对自我的理解。

I have been prattling on about fiction, and I promise I will come back to fiction, but let's quickly swerve to nonfiction. I am looking forward to Searches by Wahini Havara, who was a finalist for the Pulitzer for her novel, The Immortal King Rao. She was and has continued to be a tech journalist. And so this new book is a collection of essays. They're experimental in form, but they're all centered on how, I think, for especially for those of us who I guess you would call digital natives, meaning, like, you've had the Internet basically forever, has sort of influenced our consciousness and our understanding of ourselves.

能够获取所有这些信息确实塑造了我们在世界中的位置。书中采用了非常个人化的框架，因为作者高中时（我想她当时甚至才高一）她的姐姐被诊断出癌症。她谈到自己如何像我们许多人一样疯狂地谷歌搜索问题。这具有深刻的存在主义维度，因为她觉得如果向另一个人说出这件事，它就会变成现实。而这种全知却更私密的资源，以某种方式让她觉得更能应对这种处境。

And just having access to all this information really shapes our place in the world. And there's a very personal framing to this because when the author was in high school, I think she was, like, even a freshman, her sister was diagnosed with cancer. And so she talks about how she was frantically googling questions like I think many of us do. And and it had a really existential dimension because she was like, if I actually said it to another person, then it became real. But, like, having this sort of, like, omniscient resource that was more private, like, helped me deal with it in a way that felt a little more manageable.

并非说这种情况是可应对的。总之这是大致的框架。随着书籍展开，她会给亚马逊购物清单做注释，或是整理近期所有谷歌搜索记录，并指出这反映了她怎样的状态。这是个睿智的论点：获取这类信息如何能让我们更了解自己、帮助我们哀悼、也可能阻碍哀悼过程，甚至重塑我们的情感景观。

Not that this is manageable. Anyway, so that's somewhat of the frame. And then as the book goes on, you know, she'll, like, annotate a list of her Amazon purchases, or she'll collate all of her recent Google searches and make a point about what that says about her. And it's an intelligent argument about how having access to this kind of information can really teach us things about herself or help us grieve or maybe impede our grief or, you know, it's just reshaping like our emotional landscape too.

互联网如何重塑了你的情感景观？

How has the Internet reshaped your emotional landscape?

这是个绝妙的问题。这意味着我让很多尼奥宠物死去，所以...

That is a wonderful question. It means I let a lot of Neopets die, and so that

我为你的损失感到遗憾。

I'm so sorry for your loss.

我知道。我可能被尼奥宠物王国通缉了。他们大概把我的照片贴在魔法煎蛋旁边，因为...总之我是它们的灾星。我确实怀念现实世界的许多事物——这事我向你抱怨过。

I know. I think I'm probably wanted back in Neopetlandia. They probably have my face plastered up by the magic omelet because I just anyway, I was a blight upon them. I do there are so many things about the analog world that I miss. I've screamed at you about this.

我讨厌免费预订电影票。我想直接走到售票处买票然后进去坐下。我讨厌这样。我讨厌这样。

I hate free reserving movie tickets. I want to walk up to a box office and buy them and then go sit down. I hate it. I hate it.

如果到了现场发现票都卖光了只剩前排一张票，你倒是能坦然接受坐第一排呢。

You you would be comfortable with sitting in the front row if you got there and all the tickets had been sold and there was one ticket there.

这是我应得的。嗯哼。没错。但我也清楚自己根本无法把这事割裂看待。就像小时候我爸住在海外，我们得靠邮件联系，因为时区交错那会儿我还试图像正常人一样睡觉。

I deserve that. Uh-huh. Yeah. But I also am aware of how much I just can't even separate it. Also, like, when I was a kid, my dad lived overseas, and so, like, we would send emails back and forth to each other because we were in, like, weird time zone overlap when I was still trying to, like, sleep like a normal person.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这已经深植于我的骨子里。我觉得这本书的框架和前提设定真的很棒。现在的互联网就像我们体内积累的微塑料一样无处不在。

This is bound up in my in myself. I'm ex I I think the framing of this book and the premise of it is really good. At this point, it's like the Internet is just like all the microplastics that we've integrated into our body.

我们稍后回来。

We'll be right back.

嘿，等等。这是属于你的时刻。是你此生今天的专属时刻。是你去玩耍、去创造、去行动、去穿越、去探索的日子。

Hey. Hold up. This is your minute. It's your minute in this life on this day. It's your day to play, to play, to make, to move, to move through, to explore.

这是属于你的清晨，可以分享，可以塑造你的周末，烹饪、沉浸、聆听、等待。这是你的身体，需要休息、滋养、成长。这是你的思想，明白吗？这是你的地方，你的国家，你的生活，去热爱、崛起、梦想、改变。向世界展示你与他人同样丰富，让世界理解。

It's your morning to share, your weekend to shape, to cook, to soak, to listen to, to wait. It's your body to rest, to nourish, to grow. It's your mind, you know? It's your place, your country, your life to love, to rise, to dream, to change. Show world as much as anyone's, show world to understand.

《纽约时报》。更多信息请访问nytimes.com/yourworld。

The New York Times. Find out more at nytimes.com/yourworld.

欢迎回来。这里是《书评》播客，我是吉尔伯特·克鲁兹。本周与我一同主持的是我的同事编辑朱玛娜·哈提卜，我们将讨论从现在到夏初我们期待的一些书籍。虽然我感觉自己在谈论很多严肃的书籍，但这确实是一本严肃的书，而且奇怪的是，尽管它如此严肃且主题沉重，我却对它充满期待。这本书名为《异乡人：美国华人的排斥、归属与史诗故事》，作者是迈克尔·罗。

Welcome back. This is the Book Review podcast, and I'm Gilbert Cruz. I'm joined this week by my fellow editor, Jumana Khattib, and we are talking about some books that we're looking forward to between now and the beginning of summer. I feel like I'm talking about a lot of serious books, but this this is a serious book and and one that I'm oddly excited for given how serious it is and given the topic. It's called Strangers in the Land Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America by Michael Luo.

迈克尔目前是《纽约客》网站的编辑。他曾是我们这里的记者，不过我从未见过他。这本书讲述了美国华人的历史，从19世纪中叶淘金热期间他们开始大量抵达西海岸，一直到现代。

Michael is currently the editor of the New Yorker's website. He used to be a reporter here, though though I certainly have never met him. And this is the history of the Chinese in America. Right? From the moment they started to arrive in increasing numbers on the West Coast in the mid eighteen hundreds during the gold rush all the way up to the modern era.

当然，令人悲伤但历史事实是，在这一百五六十年的历程中，我们见证了华人和华裔美国人在美国经历的所有反华浪潮。我喜欢这种宏大的历史叙事，喜欢了解美国，我一定会读这本书。

And, of course, sadly, but historically, along the way, in those hundred and fifty, sixty, seventy years, we see all these moments of anti Chinese backlash that the Chinese and Chinese Americans have experienced here in America. I love a sweeping history. I love learning about America, and I'm definitely gonna read this one.

好的。我有一个稍微不同的视角，我发誓这不是事先安排的，但我确实对中美关系有一个稍微不同的看法，这是通过小说的视角来呈现的。这本书是——

Okay. I have a slightly different dimension, and I swear this wasn't planned, but I do have a slightly different take on Chinese American relations, and it's through the lens of fiction. This is

好的。不错。我刚才还有点担心

Okay. Good. I was worried there

因为我知道。我能察言观色。

for I know. I read the room.

我们是在讨论关税吗？

Are we talking about tariffs?

好吧。那就说说我的iPhone。

Okay. Talking about my iPhone.

好的。

Okay.

这是詹妮弗·海的新作《兔子月亮》，将于四月初出版。这是个相当错综复杂、充满纠葛的家庭故事，背景设定在上海。基本情节触发点是，这个家庭的大女儿——一位美国白人女性——正在上海教书。

So this is Rabbit Moon by Jennifer Hay. This is coming out in early April. This is a pretty tangled, naughty family story. It's set in Shanghai. Basically, the inciting incident is that the older daughter in the family, who she's a white American woman is teaching in Shanghai.

我想这是她大学毕业后的第一年。她是个年轻女性，在一场交通事故中受伤住院，伤势非常严重。因此她的父母不得不从美国赶来。这对父母不仅离异，还与女儿关系疏远。

And I think it's her first year after college. She's a young woman. She's injured in a traffic accident and hospitalized, and it's a very serious injury. So her parents have to come from The States. And these are parents who are not only divorced, but they're estranged from their daughter.

更复杂的是，受伤的女儿唯一真正倾诉过对家庭和父母深层感受的人，是她那个在婴儿时期从中国被领养的妹妹。所以这个故事涉及各种种族维度、归属感和包容性等问题。詹妮弗·海的上部小说叫《慈悲街》，主要围绕一家堕胎诊所展开，呈现了角色们对立的观点。作为一位以心理洞察力和敏锐度备受推崇的小说家，我认为这才是她真正的写作焦点。所以这个新故事其实非常适合她的风格。

So adding to this is that the injured daughter, the only person that she's really confided her deepest feelings about her family and her parents is her sister who was adopted as an infant from China. So there are all sorts of racial dimensions to this, belonging, inclusion. And one of the things so Jennifer Hay's last book is called Mercy Street, and it took place basically, like, in and around an abortion clinic with opposing viewpoints from the characters. And she's a novelist who's really respected for her psychological insight and acuity, and and I think that's where her real focus is as a writer. So this is actually a a good setup for her.

实际上我在准备这期播客时了解到，她是在上海参加某种作家驻留项目期间写下这本书的，因此她确实借鉴了自己观察这座城市的亲身经历。所以这座城市本身在小说中也成为了一个角色。对于长期收听书评的老听众来说，这里有个有趣的小彩蛋——虽然我选择这本书并非出于这个原因，但书名确实和我那位现在关系紧张的占星师同名，都叫‘月兔’。不过80%的时间里我还是很尊重她的。

And I actually learned this when I was prepping for this podcast that she wrote this when she herself was on some kind of writer's fellowship in Shanghai, and so really drew on her own experiences of watching the city. And so the city itself becomes a bit of a character in the novel. And a fun little Easter egg for longtime listeners of the book review. I didn't choose this book for this reason, but this book does share a name with my astrologer with whom I am currently on the outs, Moon rabbit. But I do respect her 80% of the time.

你知道在这个播客里必须说真话对吧。那个...这是真的吗？

Is this you know you have to say facts on this podcast. Yeah. Is this real?

没错，月兔。

Yeah. Moon rabbit.

月兔。

Moon rabbit.

对，她人在明尼苏达州。

Yeah. She's based in Minnesota.

她会听这个节目吗？

Does she listen to this?

这问题问得...呃抱歉。

I that's a great I'm sorry.

想发条信息吗？

Trying to send a message?

我想我确实有点绝望了，因为她涨价了，所以我有阵子没见到她了。

I I suppose I'm getting desperate because she has increased her prices, so I haven't seen her in a while.

通货膨胀啊。

Inflation.

我知道。但连明星都涨价的时候，你就知道情况有多糟了。

I know. But when it comes for the stars, then you know it's bad.

听你提到为这期播客准备的那本书时，我特别高兴。

I was delighted to learn as you were talking about that book that you prepared for this podcast.

这算回答了一个问题。

That's one question answered.

能在文档里看到笔记真是太好了。

It was great to see notes on the doc.

不像我平时那样即兴发挥。

Instead of just doing this off the dome like I normally do.

两种不同的体验，都很刺激。就像走钢丝一样。六种

Both different experiences, both exciting. Just real tightrope. Six of

选择，半打另一种选择。

one, half a dozen of the other.

我要谈谈马克·吐温。你听说过马克·吐温吗？

I'm gonna talk about Mark Twain. Have you heard of Mark Twain?

明白了。

Got it.

是的。你听说过马克·吐温吗？是的。你知道马克·吐温的真名是什么吗？

Yeah. Have you heard of Mark Twain? Yeah. You know what Mark Twain's real name is?

不知道。我以前知道，但现在不记得了。

No. I I did at one point, but no. I don't know now.

好的。塞缪尔·兰霍恩·克莱门斯。

Okay. Samuel Langhorne Clemens.

哦，对。对。对。好吧。我是英语专业的。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was an English major.

我觉得如果我没把这句话重复三遍并看着他的鬼魂出现，他们可能不会让我离开校园。

I think they wouldn't have let me leave the campus if I hadn't said that three times and watched his ghost appear.

他是罗恩·切尔诺即将在五月出版的一部巨幅传记的主角。罗恩·切尔诺是传记文学的大师。当然，他就是那本被改编成大型舞台音乐剧的亚历山大·汉密尔顿传记的作者。他还写过乔治·华盛顿、尤利西斯·S·格兰特、约翰·D·洛克菲勒等带中间名首字母的名人传记，都是我们最爱的角色。这次他又出手了。

He is the subject of a new just a giant biography that's coming out in May from Ron Chernow. Ron Chernow is a master of the biographical form. He is, of course, the author of the biography of Alexander Hamilton that was turned into the just a massive stage musical. He also has written biographies of George Washington, Ulysses s Grant, John d Rockefeller, other people with middle initials, just all our favorite guys. Ron Chernow is on it.

根据出版社网站上的信息，这本书长达1200页。

And this book is listed on the publisher's website as as being 1,200 pages long.

真是部大部头传记。

That's a big biography.

确实是大部头。我猜其中一两百页是尾注之类的，但依然很厚重。我超爱读传记。已经迫不及待想深入了解这位我们似乎都熟悉——因为中小学时被迫读过他的书——但实际上知之甚少的人物。我只知道些零碎：蒸汽船、他的大胡子、还有他写的几本书，除此之外了解并不多。

It's a big biography. I assume that a hundred, two hundred of those pages are endnotes or whatever, but that's still pretty big. I love biographies. I can't wait to learn about someone that it feels like we all know because we were forced to read his books in in in grade school and in high school, but I actually don't know that much about. I know, like, riverboats, he had a mustache, and then a couple of books that he wrote, but I don't know that much about him.

你有最喜欢的马克·吐温的书或故事吗？

Do have a favorite Mark Twain book or story?

我妈妈是《天真汉出国记》的忠实粉丝。所以我大概会选这本，主要是因为它伴随着我的成长。不过说实话，我高中时虽然按要求读过吐温的作品，大学时也为了美国研究或美国文学课读过，但我算不上是个狂热的吐温迷。

My mom is a big fan of the innocence abroad. So I think probably that one just because it was in the when I was growing up. I will tell you, I am not like I did my requisite tour of Twain in high school. I did it for my sort of required American studies or, like, American lit class in college, but, like, not a big Twain head.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我的知识储备里有很多空白。嗯。我肯定会试着读这本传记的。某种程度上，我觉得带着年岁赋予的‘智慧’（加引号）重读马克·吐温的作品，会获得截然不同的体验。我敢说第一次读《哈克贝利·费恩》时肯定漏掉了太多东西。

So, like, I have huge lapses in my knowledge. Mhmm. I'm definitely gonna read the definitely going to attempt to read this biography as well. In a way, my sense is that reading some of Mark Twain's books with the wisdom, I'm putting that in quotes, of age gives you a very different experience of it. I'm sure there was a ton that I missed in Huck Finn when I read it the first time around.

我觉得很多人会直接读这本传记，而不会重读任何马克·吐温的作品。

I think a lot of people will read this without rereading any Mark Twain books or stories.

因为他们已经为马克·吐温耗费了人生中的一千页？

Because they've already devoted a thousand pages of their life to Mark Twain?

我想是的。好吧。我想是的。

I think so. Okay. I think so.

已悉知。好的。我还有另一本非虚构类作品想讨论，这是一本散文集，作者是普利策奖得主、书评人安德里亚·隆·楚。我其实非常喜欢这本书的标题。

Duly noted. Okay. I have another work of nonfiction that I would like to discuss, and this is a series of essays. This is by the Pulitzer Prize winning book critic named Andrea Long Chu. And I actually really love the title of this book.

书名叫《权威》，因为这是我们这些从事评论工作的人总想唤起的特质——权威感。这个书名带着俏皮的自嘲意味。总之，这本书收录了她先前为《纽约杂志》和《n+1》撰写的文章，我认为她正是在《n+1》奠定了批评家的声誉。是《n+1》对吧？这是本令人振奋的书。

It's called authority because that's something those of us in the criticism business always try to evoke is authority. It's funny tongue in cheek. Anyway, so this is a collection of some of her previous writing for New York Magazine and n plus one, which is where I think she really made her name as a critic. Was it n plus one? And this is a this is an exciting book.

它大胆犀利，充满智性思考。如果你不常读她的文章，容我介绍——她作为评论家无所畏惧（这点很重要），而且非常好斗，对吧？

It's nervy. It's very cerebral. I'm not sure. In case you don't read her regularly, she's fearless, which is important in a critic, and she's very pugnacious. Right?

她在书中抨击了一些文坛宠儿，比如扎迪·史密斯、玛吉·尼尔森。她会构建论点，有趣的是当你浏览这些文章时，她会直言'我知道这样不公平，我知道这里不公平，但是...' 我欣赏这种自我觉察，不过不公平的批评确实有趣。我尽量不这么做，但能理解她为何乐此不疲。

And she takes aim at some real literary darlings in here, Zadie Smith, Maggie Nelson. She mounts an argument. And one thing that's interesting when you breeze through these essays is she'll say, I know I'm being unfair. I know I'm being unfair here, but and I appreciate the self recognition, but it is fun to be unfair. I try not to do it, but, like, I can understand why she might enjoy doing it.

是的。你说她'好斗'这个词很准确。这让人想起一个早已不复存在的时代——那时的批评家会在公开场合挑起争论，与其他评论家唇枪舌战，有时甚至比必要程度更刻薄，因为他们想激起反响，或者根本不在意与自己评论领域的人交朋友。

Yeah. I know what you mean about her as pugnacious is the right word. It harkens back to a time that really doesn't exist anymore at all when critics were people that picked fights in public that argued with other critics that maybe were a a little meaner than they needed to be because they wanted to get a reaction from people, or they were not interested in in necessarily being friends with people in the community that they cover.

我对此态度反复，但有个强烈观点认为：优秀评论的核心价值不仅在于传递信息，更在于娱乐性。好的评论应该读起来有趣且引人入胜。

I go back and forth about this, but there is a very strong argument that a central point of good criticism is not only to inform, but also to entertain. Good criticism should be fun to read and engaging to read.

我们聊聊艾莉森·贝克德尔吧。听众应该熟悉这个名字，她是图像小说回忆录《欢乐之家》（2006年2月出版）的作者，这本书入选了《纽约时报》21世纪百佳图书——这个榜单我肯定要念叨一辈子。这部回忆录讲述了她出柜的故事，同时刻画了她那位古怪离奇的父亲形象。

Let's pop over to Alison Bechdel. She is a name that I think our listeners are familiar with. She's the author of Fun Home, the graphic novel memoir from 02/2006, and it was one of the New York Times' 100 best books of the twenty first century, which of course is a project that I have to mention until the end of time. And and that is a memoir that tells her story of coming out. It also presents a portrait of her father who's a very quirky and odd man.

他曾是一名殡葬业者。他本人是一位积极乐观的男同性恋者。一本大部头著作。那本书，作为一部百老汇音乐剧改编作品，真正将她推向了另一种高度。尽管她在此期间又创作了一部图文回忆录形式的作品，名为《超凡力量的秘密》，但这部新作似乎是在探讨《欢乐之家》带来的后续影响。

He was a funeral director. He himself was was a positive gay man. A big book. That book, it was a Broadway musical adaptation, really rocketed her into a different kind of stratosphere. And even though she has written another sort of graphic novel memoir in between, a book called The Secret to Superhuman Strength, this, it feels like, is grappling with sort of the after effects of Fun Home.

当一个人取得成功、赚到钱、成名之后会发生什么？他们周围的人会如何反应和回应？而他们自己又会如何应对？她深受爱戴，我迫不及待想读这本书了。

What happens to someone after they become a success, after they make some money, after they become famous, how do the people around them react to them, respond to them, and how do they do so in turn? She's beloved, and I can't wait to read this one.

好的。我把最好的留到最后——以我完全客观的视角来看的最佳之作。这是内蒂·琼斯所著《鱼的故事》的再版，非常令人兴奋。这本书最初出版于1983年。

Okay. I've been saving the best for last. The best in my totally unbiased opinion. So this is a very exciting reprint of a book called Fish Tales by Nettie Jones. So this was first published in 1983.

它有个惊人的背景故事。这是托妮·莫里森作为编辑收购的最后一本书。当然，托妮在转向小说创作之前，确实培养了大量黑人作家，眼光独到。后来发现内蒂·琼斯——我想这是她的处女作——当时她刚起步。

It has an amazing backstory. So this was the last book that Toni Morrison acquired as an editor. And, of course, Toni was before she turned to novel writing, she really nurtured a huge cohort of black talent and had such an an eye for taste. And I'll it turns out that when Nettie Jones, who I think this this is her first book. She was just starting out.

她当时在底特律，完全没融入文学圈。她从朋友盖尔·琼斯（无亲属关系）那里得到了一份编辑名单来投递手稿。托妮在名单上排第三。她根本不知道托妮·莫里森是谁，也不清楚她的分量有多重。

She was, like, in Detroit. She was not plugged into the literary world at all. She got a list of editors to send her manuscript to from her friend Gail Jones, no relation. And Tony was, like, third on the list. She had no idea who Toni Morrison was and, like, what a big deal she was.

所以她只是心血来潮寄了过去。这个故事非常离奇，背景设定在1970年代的纽约，很大程度上像是自传体小说。吉尔伯特，我知道你对老派纽约有种特殊情感。

So she just sent this to her on a whim. And this story is bananas. It is set in nineteen seventies New York. It is it seems to be largely autofictional. It is this sort of Gilbert, I know you have an affection for, like, old school New York.

确实如此。

Sure do.

所以这就像是七十年代的半上流社会，对吧？或者说，那时候你晚上可不敢穿过华盛顿广场公园。这个故事讲述了一个名叫路易斯的女人来到纽约，她吸食鸦片。

So this is, like, seventies demi monde. Right? Or, like, back when you wouldn't walk through Washington Square Park at night. So this follows a woman named Lewis who comes to New York. She smokes opium.

她吸可卡因，喝很多香槟，性经历丰富。非常肉体化。我是说，我试图在这里找出一句能读出来的句子，但答案是没有。

She does Coke. She drinks a lot of champagne. She has a lot of sex. It is very body. I mean, there I was looking to see if there was a single sentence I could possibly read on here, and the answer is no.

但我觉得书中内蒂的声音简直令人震惊。就像一只黑豹从书页中跃出。故事以一种非常奇怪的关系结束，主角被一个四肢瘫痪的男人迷住了，他依然控制着她。这个故事的神奇之处在于，尽管充满毒品、直白的性描写和些许不安，却同样饱含温柔。这是我读过最独特的作品。

But it's I think her voice, Nettie's voice in this book is just astonishing. Like, it just, like, leaps off the page like a panther. And it ends in this sort of very strange relationship where the main character gets enthralled to this, like, quadriplegic guy who, like, still controls her. And what's amazing about this story is that as drug fueled and sexually frank and, like, a little disturbing, is also very tender in equal measure. It is unlike anything I've ever read.

我爱死它了。我迫不及待想听听大家的看法。别把它送给你奶奶。我觉得我妈会喜欢。好吧。

I love it. I am so excited to see what people have to say about it. Don't give it to your grandmother. I think my mom would like it. Okay.

是啊。

Yeah.

要问问她吗？

Should we ask her?

不。好啊。现在就打电话给她。我要在书评播客上求助亲友吗？没错。

No. Yeah. Let's call her up right now. Do I phone a friend on the book review podcast? Yeah.

我买了这本书，它太棒了。真的太棒了。

I but this book, it's so good. It's so good.

听起来不错。你对这本书的热情已经持续一段时间了，现在除了我之外的所有人都能听到。

That sounds great. You've been enthusiastic about this book for a while, and now everyone other than me can hear it.

他如释重负。

He's so relieved.

我把这份礼物送给你们听众。Nettie Jones的《鱼的故事》。我们刚刚讨论了13本书，幸运的13本，它们将在现在到五月初之间出版。还有很多其他书即将出版，但这不可能是一个四小时的播客。你们应该去看看这些书。

I I give this gift to you listeners. Fish Tales by Nettie Jones. So we just talked about 13 books, lucky 13 that are coming out between now, early March, and the May. There's so many other books coming out now, but this was never gonna be a four hour podcast. You should check these out.

我们很想知道你们在未来几个月会读什么书，对从现在到夏天之间出版的书有什么期待，请发邮件到books@nytimes.com告诉我们，我们会尽力回复你们。Ximana，谢谢你的到来。谢谢你对所有这些书的热情。

We'd love to hear what you're reading over the next few months, what you're excited for that's coming out between now and summertime, please email us at books@nytimes.com, and we'll do our best to get back to you. Ximana, thank you for coming on. Thank you for being enthusiastic about all these books.

也谢谢你做了准备。

And thank you for prepping.

最重要的是谢谢你做了准备。谢谢你在这里的文件中列出了一些要点。非常重要。有你参与总是令人愉快。

And mostly thank you for prepping. Thank you for putting some bullet points here in our documents. So important. It's always a delight to have you on.

哦，这是我的荣幸。谢谢你邀请我，吉尔伯特。

Oh, it's a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Gilbert.

这是我与乔伊·莫妮卡·蒂布关于几本我们期待从现在到五月间出版的新书的对话。我是吉尔伯特·克鲁兹，《纽约时报书评》的编辑。感谢收听。

That was my conversation with Joue Monica Thib about several books that we're looking forward to coming up between now and the May. I'm Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review. Thanks for listening.