美国如何对蛋白质着迷

我是安娜·马丁，《现代爱情》播客的主持人。每一期节目中，我们都会窥探某人生活中的一个私密角落，了解爱对他们意味着什么。

I'm Anna Martin, the host of the Modern Love podcast. In every episode, we peek into an intimate corner of someone's life and learn about what love means to them.

你知道吗，我可以告诉你与另一个人共度的三十五年时光。我也从未与其他人相处过那么长时间。

You know, I can tell you thirty five years with another person. I've never spent that much time with anyone else either.

所以我们俩都算是很快说出了'我爱你'。

So we both kind of said I love you pretty fast.

我的建议是，即使很难也没关系。

My advice is that it's okay if it's hard.

你可以在任何收听播客的地方收听《现代爱情》。

You can listen to Modern Love wherever you get your podcasts.

这里是《纽约时报》的娜塔莉·基特罗夫，为您带来《每日播报》。似乎一夜之间，美国人就痴迷于在每一种能想到的饮料、零食和餐食中尽可能多地摄入蛋白质。今天，美食作家伊丽莎白·邓恩将解释我们是如何陷入这场最新的营养热潮的，以及蛋白质最大化是否已经走得太远。今天是8月26日，星期二。

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroev. This is The Daily. Seemingly overnight, Americans have become obsessed with pumping as much protein as possible into every drink, snack, and meal imaginable. Today, food writer Elizabeth Dunn explains how we arrived at this latest nutrition craze and whether protein maxing has gone too far. It's Tuesday, August 26.

伊丽莎白，欢迎来到节目。

Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

谢谢邀请。

Thanks for having me.

今天我们要讨论的话题是蛋白质。因为说实话，我们正处于蛋白质的大时代。它无处不在。你根本无法逃避这场蛋白质热潮。而且它已经发展到

Today, we're gonna be having a conversation about protein. Because let's be honest, we are in our big protein era. It's everywhere. You simply cannot escape the protein boom. And it's gotten to

我们需要讨论这一切是如何以及为何发生的程度。我从事美食写作大约有十五年了。在大部分时间里，我报道的都是关于高级餐饮趋势或名厨之类的故事。但在过去几年里，我越来越清楚地意识到，人们真的不再那么关心那些故事了。比如，当我去参加鸡尾酒会或晚宴时，如果有人发现我是写美食的，他们想知道的并不是我是否去过诺玛餐厅。

the point where we need to talk about how and why this happened. So I have been writing about food for about fifteen years. And for most of that time, the stories that I was working on were about things like fine dining trends or celebrity chefs. But in the past couple of years, it's become increasingly clear to me that people really don't care as much about those stories anymore. Like, when I go to a cocktail party or a dinner party and somebody finds out that I write about food, what they'll want to know about isn't whether I've been to NOMA.

他们想了解蛋白质。哇。是的。我一点也不惊讶，因为正如你所说，蛋白质无处不在。

They wanna know about protein. Wow. Yeah. And I'm not surprised because as you say, protein is everywhere.

这里有七种不同的方法，让你在三十秒或更短时间内摄入50克蛋白质。九片柯克兰无腌制黑森林火腿。

Here are seven different ways you can get in 50 grams of protein in thirty seconds or less. Nine slices of Kirkland uncured black forest ham.

如果你打开社交媒体动态，如果你和我一样

If you open your social media feed, if you're like me

如果你想摄入更多蛋白质，可以开始吃鸡肉零食。好的。

If you wanna eat more protein, start snacking on chicken. Okay.

我

I

你会看到网红们分享他们最喜欢的蛋白粉，或者给你提供高蛋白食谱创意。

You're gonna see influencers sharing their favorite protein powders or giving you high protein recipe ideas.

作为一个27岁的活跃人士，我每天摄入的所有食物都力求达到至少130克蛋白质的目标，而且我做到了

Everything I eat in a day as an active 27 year old trying to get at least a 130 grams of protein in every single day, and I did

然后在杂货店或便利店，富含蛋白质的食品真的随处可见。

And then in the grocery store or convenience stores, protein loaded foods are really everywhere.

我是辅导老师查理，提醒你该补充蛋白质了。试试

Charlie the Tutor here reminding you to take a protein break. Try

人们正在更多地食用天然富含蛋白质的食物。

People are eating more naturally protein rich foods.

你们知道希腊酸奶是我每天的必备品。它很美味，我尤其喜欢这两款。而且，你还可以用它制作

You guys know Greek yogurt is a daily staple for me. It is delicious. I love these two in particular. Plus, you can make

肉条、奶酪或希腊酸奶。但现在这些食品中还额外添加了蛋白质，这在传统上是不会有的。作为蛋白质女王，我确实得试试科勒·卡戴珊的蛋白质爆米花。

meat sticks or cottage cheese or Greek yogurt. But then there's also protein being jammed into all of these foods where you wouldn't traditionally find it. As the protein queen, I do need to try Khloe Kardashian's protein popcorn.

这些传奇薯片，每份含20克蛋白质。

These legendary chips, 20 grams of protein.

冰霜柠檬蛋白汽水，每罐90卡路里，含20克蛋白质。

Frosted lemonade protein soda, 90 calories, 20 grams of protein per can.

在我的调查中发现，过去十年左右，市场上标榜高蛋白的食品和饮料产品数量翻了两番。

And in my reporting, I found that over the past decade or so, the number of food and beverage products hitting the market with a high protein claim has quadrupled.

哇。我不得不说，我甚至没刻意买这些产品，它们却莫名其妙出现在我的购物车里？回家后突然发现，我有了像壮汉燕麦这样的蛋白质燕麦。太疯狂了。

Wow. And can I just say, like, I don't even try to buy these products, and they somehow end up in my grocery cart? And I go home, and all of a sudden, I have, like, protein oatmeal, like, burly oatmeal. It's crazy.

确实难以抗拒。它们无处不在，而且营销宣传和健康声明是被允许的。这确实在某种程度上占领了我们的包装食品领域。

I mean, it's hard to resist. They're everywhere, and the marketing claims and the health claims are allowed. And so it really has kind of taken over our packaged food landscape.

你所描述的产品增长幅度相当惊人。我想先请你告诉我，蛋白质到底是什么？给我详细解释一下。

And the increase that you've described in terms of the products that it's in is pretty remarkable. I wanna start by just asking you to tell me what is protein, actually? Break it down for me.

蛋白质是一种宏量营养素，意味着我们的身体需要大量这种营养素来运作。碳水化合物是另一种宏量营养素，脂肪则是第三种。明白了。蛋白质与碳水化合物和脂肪的不同之处在于，它不仅是能量来源，还是身体用来构建和修复肌肉等组织的物质。听起来很重要。

Protein is a macronutrient, which means it's a nutrient that our bodies need in large amounts to function. Carbohydrates are another macronutrient, and fats are the third macronutrient. Got it. And what makes protein a little bit different than carbohydrates and fat is it's not only a source of energy, it's also something that our bodies use to build and repair tissues like muscle. Sounds important.

没错。我们确实需要它。几乎每天都需要它来保持健康。但在十九世纪首次发现蛋白质时，没人真正担心人们会缺乏它。除非你住院、营养不良或生活在无法获得足够食物的发展中国家，否则人们普遍认为你摄取了足够的蛋白质。

Exactly. We really need it. We need it almost every day to be healthy. But when it was first discovered in the nineteenth century, nobody was really concerned about people being deficient in it. I mean, unless you were hospitalized or you were malnourished or you were living in a developing country where you didn't have access to sufficient food, it was pretty much assumed that you were getting as much protein as you needed.

正如我们所说，它固然重要，但远未达到如今所拥有的那种主角光环般的地位。

So it was, as we said, important, but it had nothing approaching the kind of main character energy that it's acquired today.

完全不是。那么发生了什么变化呢？这个故事横跨数十年。最初，蛋白质补充剂仅被健美运动员使用。回溯到五十年代，蛋白质粉开始进入市场，目标群体是非常小众的、试图以特殊方式增肌的人群。

Absolutely not. And so what changed? That's a story that plays out over several decades. In the beginning, protein supplementation was really only used by bodybuilders. So back in the nineteen fifties, you started to see protein powders hit the market, and that was for this very niche group of people who were really trying to bulk up in an unusual way.

但蛋白质直到九十年代才真正引爆主流市场，当时有两股推动力量。

But protein didn't really blow up for the mainstream market until the nineteen nineties, And there were two things happening in the nineties that contributed.

通用营养中心拥有助您释放潜能的关键。

General Nutrition Centers has the key to help unlock your potential.

其一是健身文化真正走向主流——不仅健美运动普及化，人们更以与五六十年代截然不同的方式将健身融入生活。但真正的转折点是当蛋白质开始被视为减肥工具时。

One is that fitness culture had really gone main mainstream, so bodybuilding had gone mainstream, but also people were incorporating fitness into their lives in a really different way than was the case back in the nineteen fifties and sixties. But I'd say the really big inflection point was when protein started to be understood as a tool for weight loss.

焦点落在珍妮·克雷格蛋白棒上。它们是钙和蛋白质的优质来源，含有20

The spotlight is on Jenny Craig bars. They're a good source of calcium and protein. With 20

当时有许多依赖高蛋白、低碳水化合物摄入的减肥食谱盛行。

And there were a lot of different diets at that time that relied on eating high amounts of protein, small amounts of carbs in order to get you to lose weight.

所以若您正在控制碳水并追求高蛋白，选择肯德基吧。

So if you're watching carbs and going high protein, go KFC.

这与传统计算卡路里的减肥方式截然不同。我记得阿特金斯饮食法，当然，南滩饮食法也是当时的另一大热门。

And that was really different than the conventional approach of counting calories to lose weight. So I remember the Atkins diet. Sure. The South Beach diet was another big one at the time.

显然，阿特金斯和南滩饮食已从国民意识前沿消退（愿它们安息）。但即便这两种饮食风潮退去，蛋白质的地位却未动摇。

And, obviously, Atkins and South Beach have faded from the forefront of the national consciousness RIP. But even though those two diet fads go away, protein doesn't.

确实。饮食潮流本身在变化，但人们对蛋白质的兴趣从未真正消退。疫情期间更是激增。那时候，我们所有人——正如我们所记得的——整天待在家里盯着手机。

Yeah. The diet fads themselves change, but the interest in protein never really goes away. And it really surges during the pandemic. That's a time when not only are we all as we all remember, at home all the time staring at our phones.

没错。

Sure.

我们有大量时间沉迷于思考饮食和烹饪，同时也普遍更关注自身健康。嗯。所以我认为人们不仅花大量时间上网，健康和长寿相关话题也变得更为主流和吸引人。那时你开始看到这些推崇蛋白质力量的网红出现。我实在无法更强调：以高蛋白早餐开始一天会改变你的人生。

We have a lot of time to obsess about things like what we're eating and cooking, but we're also generally more concerned about our own health and wellness. Mhmm. So I think not only did people spend a ton of time online, but the topics around health and wellness and longevity became much more mainstream and appealing to people. And it's a time when you start to see these influencers emerge who are promoting the power of protein. I truly cannot stress enough that starting your morning with a protein rich breakfast will change your life.

网上形形色色的人都在宣扬蛋白质是健康饮食的关键。

And you have really all kinds of people online promoting protein as the key to a healthy diet.

现在我正宣扬奶昔的福音。我放了两勺蛋白粉，每勺约20克蛋白质，所以差不多40克蛋白质。一个牛油果、胶原蛋白粉、肌酸、初乳。

Right now, I'm preaching the gospel of a smoothie. I've got two scoops of protein powder. They're like 20 grams of protein each. So that's like 40 grams of protein. One avocado, collagen powder, creatine, colostrum.

有'让美国再次健康'的网红，比如亚历克斯·克拉克。当然还有CrossFit健身狂们。

Are the make America healthy again influencers, people like Alex Clark. There are definitely the CrossFit bros.

我叫德鲁，每天摄入300克蛋白质同时训练四小时。这是我的方法。蛋白质就是蛋白质。蛋白质等于肌肉增长。

My name is Drew, and I eat 300 grams of protein daily while training for four hours. Here's how I do it. Protein is protein. Protein equals gains.

让我们通过纠正你的动作来对抗父权制。

Let's fight the patriarchy by fixing your form.

无痛生活相当

There are Being pain free is pretty

还有力量训练女权主义者。我们不会告诉世界肌肉天生属于男性——因为它不是。肌肉属于人类。力量属于人类。这向你展示蛋白质如何真正帮助你成为最强大的自己。

the strength training feminists. What we aren't gonna do is tell the world that muscle is inherently masculine because it's not. Muscle is human. Strength is human. That show you how protein is really gonna help you get to your most empowered self.

目前，人们更多地讨论蛋白质对增肌的重要性，同时也从长寿的角度探讨蛋白质的作用。因此，蛋白质将成为一种帮助你改善健康、不仅减重增肌，更能让你达到最佳身体状态的物质。

At this point, people are talking a lot more about the importance of protein to build muscle, and they're also talking about protein in the context of longevity. So the protein is gonna be a substance that helps you improve your health and not only lose weight, not only gain muscle, but also being the best physical version of yourself.

欢迎收听Huberman Lab播客，在这里我们探讨科学及基于科学的日常生活工具。

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life.

其中最具影响力的两个名字是Peter Attia和Andrew Huberman。

And the two biggest and most influential names here are Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman.

好的，说说他们吧。他们是谁？主要研究什么？

Okay. Tell me about them. Who are they? What are they all about?

今天我们将从最基础的健康评估开始，全面探讨这些健康领域。

Today, we talk about all those areas of health, starting with the very basics, such as how to evaluate one's own health status.

Huberman是斯坦福大学的神经生物学教授。

So Huberman is a professor of neurobiology at Stanford.

明白。

Okay.

他主持一档极受欢迎的全方位自我优化播客，听众众多。Peter Attia同样主持一档极具影响力的播客节目。

And he hosts a very popular podcast that's all about self optimization. Huge listenership. Peter Attia also hosts a very, very influential podcast.

事实证明我们存在一个可塑性极强的关键窗口期，具体取决于...

So it turns out there's a real critical window in which we are malleable. So depending

他是医学博士，专注于长寿研究。如果

He's a doctor though, and his focus is on longevity. If

如果你还不到二十五岁，你仍处于人生中能够发挥潜能的阶段。

you're under twenty twenty five, you are still in that time of your life when you are able to reach your potential.

所以这两位目前在营养健康和 wellness 领域极具影响力。我最近常听到一个流行词叫‘Huberman 丈夫’。

So And these two guys are really extraordinarily influential in the nutrition space right now, the wellness space. There's sort of a term that I've heard thrown around Huberman husbands.

那是什么？

What is that?

指那些把听 Andrew Huberman 播客当作全部人格的男人。但‘整个人格’意味着什么？就是过着极度有条理的生活，每分每秒都在追求健康最大化。他们肯定在吃欧米伽3补剂。

These are guys whose whole personality is listening to Andrew Huberman. But what does it mean for it to be your whole personality? You're basically living your entire life in a very methodical way where every moment you're trying to maximize your health. Right. They are probably taking omega three supplements.

可能还在用AG1——就是Huberman在播客里推广的那种绿色粉末。训练计划精确到分钟，绝对戴着aura戒指。朋友聚会时总有人提起Huberman的播客和Peter Attia的《Outlive》。他们掀起了一场通过调整饮食、运动和睡眠来打造最佳自我的风潮。

Maybe they're using AG one, which is that greens powder that Andrew Huberman actually advertises on his podcast. A lot of very intentional workout routines, They're wearing aura rings for sure. Oh. I can't tell you the number of times that I've been out with friends and people reference Andrew Huberman's podcast, Peter Attia's book, which is called Outlive. They really create a movement around the idea that you can tweak your diet, your exercise, your sleep, and create the optimal version of yourself.

蛋白质在这其中很重要吗？

And and protein is a big part of that?

对他们两位来说蛋白质都是关键。

Protein is a big part of it for both of them.

具体怎么体现？

How so? Like, how does it come into play?

他们都认为应该每天锻炼，有时甚至一天数小时，才能达到最佳状态。

Well, so they both believe that you should be exercising every single day, sometimes for multiple hours a day, in order to achieve your best self.

天啊，谁有这么多时间？

My god. Who has the time?

当你做一个完全关于这个主题的播客时，我认为你会预留出时间。对吧？确实如此。所以在他们的世界观里，人们实际上进行了相当多的锻炼。而当你进行那么多锻炼时，你真的需要摄入大量蛋白质来支撑你正在构建的肌肉，以及因所有锻炼而需要修复的肌肉。

Well, when you do a podcast that's all about this, I think you build in the time. Right? Sure. So in their worldview, people are exercising really quite a lot. And when they do that much exercise, you really have to eat a lot of protein to be able to support the muscle that you're building and the muscle that needs to get repaired from all the exercise.

为什么他们说你必须进行那么多锻炼？

Why are they saying you have to be exercising that much?

在彼得·阿提亚的观点中，中年时期的目标应该是构建足够多的肌肉，这样随着我们年龄增长自然流失肌肉时，到了八九十岁你还能剩下足够的肌肉，让你仍然能够抱起孙子、从床上起身。对吧？弯腰再站起来。因此他提倡在年轻时进行大量锻炼来增强肌肉，这样你最终会拥有更长的他所谓的‘健康寿命’。

So in Peter Attia's view, the goal at midlife should be to build so much muscle that as we naturally lose muscle as we age, you end up in your eighties and nineties with enough muscle left that you're still gonna be able to, like, pick up your grandkids and get out of bed. Right. Bend over and stand back up. And so he calls for this very high amount of exercise to sort of bulk you up as you're younger, and therefore, you'll end up with a longer what he calls health span.

这就像一份保险单。

It's like an insurance policy.

这是一份保险单，而且我必须说这是真正基于科学的。这些人总是引用经过同行评审的科学文献。他们本身就是医生和科学家。所以这种关于你应该进行多少锻炼的思考方式是有充分依据的。

It's an insurance policy, and it is one that I will say is really based on science. These guys are always citing peer reviewed science. They are themselves doctors and scientists. So there is good backing for this way of thinking about how much exercise you could be doing.

老实说，我很感兴趣。要加入这个俱乐部，根据这些人的说法，我需要摄入多少蛋白质？

Honestly, I am intrigued. To be a part of this club, how much protein do I need to consume according to these guys?

我认为最简单的理解方式是先告诉你营养机构会建议你摄入多少蛋白质。

I think the easiest way to think about this is to tell you first how much protein the nutrition establishment would recommend that you consume.

好的。

Okay.

所以蛋白质的每日推荐摄入量——这里会有点数学计算——是每天每公斤体重0.8克。

So the recommended daily allowance for protein, this is gonna be a little math, is point eight grams per kilogram of body weight per day.

明白了。

Okay.

所以如果你体重150磅，换算下来就是54克蛋白质，大约相当于8个鸡蛋的含量。

So if you weigh a hundred and fifty pounds, that works out to 54 grams, which is about eight eggs.

明白

Got

了。虽然量很大，但可行。记住你从其他食物中也能获取蛋白质。普通人不需要刻意补充就能达到这个蛋白质量。

it. That's a lot, but it's doable. And remember that you get protein in other foods that you eat too. So the average person is gonna be able to hit that amount of protein without trying to specifically eat protein.

没错。

Right.

现在彼得·阿蒂亚和安德鲁·休伯曼主张摄入两到三倍的蛋白质。这意味着要吃掉超过20个鸡蛋。

Now Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman are looking for their adherence to eat two or three times as much protein. So that's more than 20 eggs.

好多鸡蛋。

A lot of eggs.

这还是针对150磅的人。想象如果你是250磅的健身爱好者，这个数字会不断攀升。在这种高蛋白饮食法下，想要达到他们的目标摄入量而不摄入过量卡路里其实相当困难。

And that's for a hundred and fifty pound person. Imagine if you are a weightlifter bro, and so you're two hundred and fifty pounds. The numbers go up and up. And so under this higher protein regime, it's actually quite hard to get as much protein as they're trying to get without also eating an extraordinary number of calories.

确实。除非你愿意每天吃五个煎蛋卷之类的。

Sure. Unless you wanna eat, like, five omelets a day or whatever.

确实有人这么做。但很难坚持，而且真的会逼近你希望控制的卡路里上限，说实话也超出了多数人的胃容量。

And some people certainly do. But it's hard to stick with, and it really does start to nudge up against the upper limit of what you want to be consuming calorie wise and, frankly, how much food you can even really stomach.

好吧。那么这里有个待解决的问题：如何获取这么多蛋白质又不摄入过量卡路里？

Okay. So there's a problem to solve here. How do you get that much protein without overconsuming calories?

是的。而追求那种黄金蛋白质与卡路里比例的终极体现，便是蛋白质棒的柏拉图式理想——大卫棒。我

Yes. And the quest for that golden protein to calorie ratio culminates in what is the platonic ideal of the protein bar, the David bar. I have

见过它。金色包装，非常炫目。

seen it. The gold wrapper, very flashy.

你肯定见过它。它非常耀眼，而且无处不在。我认为大卫棒如何变得无处不在，很大程度上反映了当前人们对蛋白质的狂热。

You have definitely seen it. It is very flashy, and it is everywhere. And I think how the David bar ended up everywhere says a lot about the protein craze right now.

嗨，我是乔尔。我是《纽约时报游戏》的朱丽叶。

Hey. I'm Joel. And I'm Juliet from New York Times Games.

我们在这里和大家聊聊游戏。

And we're out here talking to people about games.

你玩《纽约时报游戏》吗？是的，每天都玩。有最喜欢的吗？《连线》。

You play New York Times Games. Yes. Every day. Do you have a favorite? Connections.

它让人思考。感觉能锻炼我的思维弹性。

It just makes you think. I feel like it gives me elasticity.

将四个项目分成四组。这游戏其实挺酷的。你最喜欢什么游戏？填字游戏。填字游戏。

Create four groups of four. This is actually a pretty cool game. What's your favorite game? The crossword. The crossword.

我和我兄弟一起玩。有时我们能搞定周四的，但我觉得自己单独完成不了周四的难度。

I do it with my brother. We get Thursday sometimes, but I don't think I can do Thursday on my own.

我感觉自己在学习，在完成些什么。我喜欢完成时的成就感。我们全家都玩《词语迷城》，有个超大的群聊。连我奶奶都玩，你奶奶也玩《词语迷城》啊？

I feel like I'm learning. I feel like I'm accomplishing something. I like the when you finish it. My family does Wordle, and we have a huge group chat. Like, my grandma does Wordle, like Your grandma does Wordle.

哦，每天都玩。对了，你对Wordle有什么独到见解吗？

Oh, every day. Yeah. Do you have a Wordle hot take?

你应该故意用策略性差的词开局，这样更有趣。

You should start with the word that's strategically bad to make it more fun.

所有这些游戏都超有意思，因为它们像是五到十分钟的小憩。我超爱这类游戏。没错。

All of these games are so fun because it's like a little five to ten minute, like, break. I love these games. Yeah.

《纽约时报》游戏订阅用户可畅玩所有游戏及功能。立即登录nytimes.com/games获取特别优惠。

New York Times game subscribers get full access to all our games and features. Subscribe now at nytimes.com/games for a special offer.

好的。你说大卫蛋白棒是蛋白棒界的柏拉图式理想存在。给我们讲讲吧。

Okay. You said the David bar is the platonic ideal of a protein bar. So tell us about it.

大卫蛋白棒去年底上市，发明者叫彼得·拉哈尔。拉哈尔的经历很有意思——十年前他还在做运输物流（其实就是开卡车），后来发明了另一款叫RXBAR的蛋白棒。

The David bar hit the market late last year, and it was invented by a guy named Peter Rahal. And Rahal has a pretty interesting backstory. A little over ten years ago, he invented a different protein bar called the RXBAR. The way that that came about was that he was working in transportation logistics, so basically trucking.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他当时特别无聊，迷上了CrossFit健身，发现健身房卖的所有蛋白棒都无人问津。原因是CrossFit群体当时流行原始人饮食法，这种饮食法严格限制加工食品。

He was really bored. He got really into CrossFit, and he started noticing that all of the bars that were for sale at his CrossFit gym just weren't moving. Nobody was buying them. And the reason was because people who do CrossFit tend to do or did at the time the paleo diet. And in the paleo diet, you're really not supposed to eat processed foods.

所以货架上那些超加工蛋白棒根本卖不动。他就想：那我做个符合原始人饮食法的蛋白棒好了。

So these ultra processed protein bars on the shelf at the gym, they weren't selling. And he thought, well, I could just make a paleo compliant protein bar.

更天然的蛋白棒。

A more natural protein bar.

一款更天然的蛋白棒。于是他联合一位朋友，两人各出资5000美元，开始在他母亲的地下室里用坚果、蛋清、枣等原料手工制作这些蛋白棒。哇。

A more natural protein bar. So he gets together with a friend. They both put in $5,000. They start making these bars out of nuts and egg whites and dates and stuff like that literally in his mother's basement. Wow.

在CrossFit健身房售卖。不到五年后，他们以6亿美元的价格卖掉了这家公司。难以置信的巨额回报

Selling them at CrossFit gyms. And less than five years later, they sell this company for $600,000,000. Unbelievable payday

从两人总共1万美元的投资到6亿美元。

from, what, 10 k total investment from the two of them to 600,000,000.

没错。这简直是场漂亮仗。他显然成了超级富豪，完全可以退休，但几年前他又心痒了。他说想重返商界。

Yeah. It was quite the coup. So he obviously becomes an extraordinarily rich person. He could have easily retired, but a couple of years ago, he gets the itch. Like, he says he wants to be back in the game.

他想重新参与其中。于是开始思考现在能为这个领域贡献什么。他想到的还是蛋白质。他意识到世界已经超越了RXBAR时代——那种蛋白棒只含12克蛋白质。

He wants to be back in the bargain. So he starts thinking about what he can contribute to the space today. And where his mind goes is protein. And what he realizes is the world has really moved on since the days of the RXBAR. That bar was 12 grams of protein.

如今这远远不够。所以他瞄准的目标是创造一款蛋白质含量尽可能高的蛋白棒。

Today, that's not cutting it. So what he sets his sights on is creating a bar with the highest possible amount of protein in it.

这家伙简直在搞蛋白质军备竞赛，就像这里的曼哈顿蛋白质计划。

It's like this guy's in the protein arms race, like the Manhattan Project for Protein over here.

这很2025年。他认为现在能为蛋白棒市场带来的创新是：不仅要做出蛋白质含量最高的产品，还要实现最优的蛋白质热量比。他想让每卡路里都尽可能富含蛋白质。

It's very 2025. So he thinks what he can add to the protein bar market today is to make a bar that has not just more protein than any other bar, but has a better protein to calorie ratio than any other bar. So he wants to pack as much protein into every calorie as possible.

具体怎么实现？如何在增加蛋白质的同时不增加热量？

And how exactly do you do that? How do you cram all of that protein in without adding calories?

关键在于尽量减少蛋白棒中非蛋白质来源的热量。他找到联合创始人Zach Raynen——一位有生酮饼干经验的伙伴，两人开始构思这款产品。他们先采用常规蛋白质来源：乳蛋白、胶原蛋白、浓缩乳清蛋白等，还添加了大量零卡或低卡甜味剂——这在蛋白棒中很常见。

What you're trying to do is minimize any calorie in that bar that isn't from a source of protein. So he finds a cofounder, a guy named Zach Raynen, who has experience in keto cookies, and they start putting together the idea for this bar. So they start with what are some pretty typical sources of protein. They have milk protein and collagen and whey protein concentrate and things like that. They also add a whole bunch of zero calorie or low calorie sweeteners, which are pretty typical in protein bars.

这是在不增加大量卡路里的情况下让食物更甜的方法。但他们真正的重大突破在于脂肪。蛋白质棒需要脂肪，才不会变成一堆干燥难吃的蛋白质。通常，蛋白质棒会使用各种植物油来提供这种脂肪。但大卫公司真正的创新之处在于他们发现了一种名为EPG的物质。

That's the way to make it sweeter without adding a lot of calories. But their really big breakthrough is in the fat. So protein bars need fat in order to not just be like a pile of dry, nasty protein. Typically, protein bars use plant oils of various kinds to supply that fat. But where David really innovates is that they find this substance called EPG.

EPG是什么？很高兴你问了。EPG是一种改良的植物脂肪，它大部分未经消化就通过你的消化系统。这意味着它提供的卡路里比普通脂肪少92%。

What is EPG? I'm so glad you asked. EPG is a modified plant fat that moves through your digestive system mostly undigested. So that means that it delivers 92% fewer calories than, like, a normal fat.

我能不能说，我对一种完全不受阻碍地通过我消化系统的成分并不特别热衷？对我来说，这是个危险信号。

Can I just say I don't exactly jump at an ingredient that moves through my digestive system totally unimpeded? Like, that's that is a red flag for me.

也许对你来说是这样，娜塔莉，但对彼得·拉哈尔来说不是。拉哈尔认为这是破解密码的关键，创造出市场上每卡路里提供更多蛋白质的蛋白棒。去年九月，他将这款产品推向市场，大获成功。据公司称，他们在产品发布当天就有4万人订阅了他们的邮件列表。

Maybe for you, Natalie, but for Peter Rahal, it is not. For Rahal, he sees this as the secret to cracking the code to creating a bar that delivers more protein per calorie than anything else on the market. So last September, he brings this thing to market. It is a smash hit. According to the company, they start launch day with 40,000 people on their email list.

哇。他们在第一周就卖出了价值一百万美元的蛋白棒。

Woah. They sell a million dollars worth of bars in the first week.

天啊。

Jeez.

是的。而且他们说，到2025年，他们有望卖出价值1.8亿美元的蛋白棒。值得一提的是，他们有一些非常重要的支持者，这些人真的在帮助宣传这款蛋白棒，并在社交媒体上引起关注。这些人就是安德鲁·胡伯曼和彼得·阿提亚，那两位我们之前在节目中提到的非常重视蛋白质的影响者播客主。他们都深度参与了这家公司，都是投资者，而且彼得·阿提亚还是公司的首席科学官。

Yeah. And they are on track, they say, to sell a $180,000,000 worth of bars in 2025. I should mention that they've got some pretty important supporters who are really helping to publicize the bar and to get an attention on social media, And that's Andrew Huberman and Peter Attia, those two influencer podcasters who are really big on protein, who we talked about earlier in the show. They're both deeply involved in the company. They're both investors, and Peter Attia is the company's chief science officer.

胡伯曼在公司网站上被引用说，我引用原话：‘在获取更多蛋白质和更少卡路里方面，地球上没有比这更好的蛋白棒了，而且它的味道绝对美味。’而阿提亚

Huberman is actually quoted on the company's website saying, and I quote, there is no better bar on the planet when it comes to getting more protein with fewer calories, and it tastes absolutely delicious. And Attia

所以今天是大卫公司产品的发布日。

So today marks the launch of David.

在大卫蛋白棒甚至还没发布前就在Instagram上发布了。

Posted on Instagram before the David bar even launched.

高蛋白、低热量能量棒。明显甜味，口感极佳。

High protein, low calorie bar. Obviously sweet, tastes great.

谈论他认为这产品有多么神奇，以及为什么每个人都应该购买它。

Talking about how amazing he thinks it is and why everybody should buy it.

这正是我需要的产品。它填补了我产品组合中的空白。因为在此之前，我基本上只能带着肉干旅行。所以如果我被困住

It's the product that I needed. It's the piece of my portfolio that is missing. Because prior to this, I could basically only travel with jerky. So if I was stuck

看起来他们觉得这款能量棒确实在做一些革命性且重要的事情。

It seems like they feel that the bar is really doing something that is revolutionary and important.

这东西含有多少蛋白质？

And how much protein is this thing packing?

RXBAR，你可能记得，Rehaut最初的能量棒，约200卡路里含12克蛋白质。而David能量棒在150卡路里中提供28克蛋白质。这确实是一个相当大的改进。

So the RXBAR, you'll remember, Rehaut's original bar, was 12 grams of protein in about 200 calories. The David bar offers 28 grams of protein in a 150 calories. So it's really quite an improvement.

升级版。

An upgrade.

是的。这款能量棒大受欢迎，以至于他们面临的新问题是如何获取足够的EPG。那种秘密成分。那种秘密成分。这种秘密成分是由印第安纳波利斯一家名为Epigy的小公司生产的，他们拥有这种改良植物脂肪EPG的专利。

Yeah. And the bar turns out to be so popular that their new problem becomes how to get enough EPG. That secret ingredient. That secret ingredient. So the secret ingredient is made by this tiny Indianapolis based company called Epigy, which owns the patent to this modified plant fat EPG.

到了五月，David决定为了真正稳固他们获取EPG的渠道，并可能阻止他人使用它，他们应该收购这家公司。于是他们在五月收购了Epigee，现在专利和成分都归他们所有了。

And in May, David decides that in order to really shore up their access to EPG and potentially to keep others from using it, they should buy the company. So they buy Epigee in May, and now the patent and the ingredient is theirs.

所以他们不仅仅是发现了秘密成分。他们买下了。他们拥有这个秘密成分。

So they don't just discover the secret ingredient. They buy. They own the secret ingredient.

没错。公平地说，EPG在大卫开始使用之前就已经上市了。全球有几款产品含有EPG，通常是低卡甜点这类东西，但它并非主流成分。公司拥有EPG的意义在于控制这种能让你达到我们所说的黄金标准的原料供应——那种能在产品中塞入尽可能多蛋白质却不过量摄入卡路里的完美比例。

Exactly. And to be fair, EPG was on the market before David started using it. There were a few products globally that included EPG. There were sort of low calorie desserts was the typical thing, but it was not a mainstream ingredient. And the point of owning EPG for the company, it would seem, is controlling the supply of this thing that allows you to get to that gold standard we've been talking about, that perfect ratio where you can cram as much protein as possible into this product without also over consuming calories.

正是如此。这让公司能实现两个目标：一是增加自身EPG供应，使大卫·巴尔的产品宇宙无限扩张；二是阻止潜在竞争者获取该原料。对他们而言可谓双赢。

This is it. Exactly. And it allows the company to do two things. One is to increase their own supply of EPG so that the David Barr universe can expand indefinitely, and it also keeps potential competitors from having access to it. So it's sort of a win win for them.

好，现在他们掌控了这个。你说大卫宇宙可能会持续扩张，那会是什么景象？

Okay. So now they control this thing. You said that the David universe might just keep expanding. What would that look like?

具体规划尚不明确。但根据我对这家公司的观察，他们似乎更专注于打造蛋白质平台而非能量棒公司。我这么说的依据是他们官网上架的第二款产品不是能量棒，也不是蛋白粉，而是冷冻鳕鱼。

So we don't know yet exactly what they have in mind. But from what I've seen from spending time with a company, it seems like what they're focused on is not so much building a bar company, but building a protein platform. And the reason I say that is the second product that they've put up for sale on their website isn't another bar. It isn't a powder. It's frozen cod.

鳕鱼。他们给出的食用说明是解冻后水煮。这充分体现了公司对高蛋白范式的执着。

And cod. The instructions they give are thaw and boil. And this is really just evidence of the company's commitment to this high protein paradigm.

现在我要问个可能很基础的问题：这样吃真的健康吗？

Okay. I have what, at this point, might seem like a pretty basic one zero one question here, which is, is this even good for us?

什么？摄入这么多蛋白质？

What? Like, eating this much protein?

对。这种饮食方式好吗？人类身体长期遵循特定代谢节奏和营养摄入模式，如此大幅度调整优先蛋白质...

Yeah. Like, is it good to eat this way? You know? Like, the human body has been working on a certain, you know, rhythm and with certain inputs for a very long time. Is reformulating that to prioritize protein this much

真的有益吗？过量摄入蛋白质除非有肾脏问题，否则不太可能造成伤害。但更关键的是：如此强调蛋白质时，你牺牲了哪些其他营养？为了高蛋白究竟做出了哪些营养妥协？

even like a positive? Well, it's unlikely that eating too much protein is actually gonna harm you. Like, unless you have a specific kidney issue, we can eat a lot of protein, and it's not gonna be bad for you. But I think the larger question is, what is it that you're not prioritizing if you're prioritizing protein to this degree? So what other nutritional compromises are you making in order consume so much protein?

大卫能量棒有个耐人寻味的特点：它是超加工食品的典型代表。在当下人们日益警惕超加工食品的潮流中，它却因蛋白质属性获得了豁免。跳出这款产品来看，正如节目开头所说，现在连传统不含蛋白质的领域都充斥着蛋白质添加。

So one thing that I find quite interesting about the David bar is that it is ultra processed. It's the definition of an ultra processed food, and it's incredibly popular at a time when this other major food trend has been unfolding, which is people becoming increasingly skeptical of and worried about ultra processed foods. Sure. But here, because of the protein, the ultra processed nature seems to get a pass. And I think zooming out beyond the David bar specifically, we talked at the beginning of the show about all of the different places that you now find protein that you wouldn't traditionally find it.

所以我认为一个真正的问题是，选择这些食物的人是否是为了蛋白质含量而选择它们，以及他们是否在食用那些可能不如其他食物有营养的食品，仅仅因为他们追求蛋白质。

So I think it's a real question whether the people choosing those foods are choosing them for the protein content and whether they're eating foods that aren't necessarily as nutritious as they might otherwise because they're chasing the protein.

我问你这个问题是基于这样的理解：David Barr蛋白棒卖得非常火，非常受欢迎，人们对蛋白质的痴迷普遍存在。帮我理解一下它的吸引力在哪里。比如，乐趣在哪里？我的意思是，蛋白棒和煮鳕鱼在我看来并不是什么美味大餐，你懂吗？

I ask you this with the understanding that the David Barr is selling like crazy, that it is very popular, that the protein obsession is widespread. Just help me understand the appeal. Like, where's the pleasure in it? I mean, protein bars and boiled cod are not exactly my idea of, like, a yummy meal. You know?

我只是觉得我们一直在讨论的是将食物分解成这些基本成分。但这有什么乐趣呢？快乐在哪里？

And I just feel as though what we've been talking about is pulling apart our food into these essential inputs. But where's the fun in that? Where's the joy?

我认为对某些人来说，虽然吃这些蛋白棒在味觉上没有快乐，但在优化过程中有很多快乐，这种感觉认为通过食用像David蛋白棒这样的食物，我们正逐步接近身体完美的自己。围绕这个已经形成了一个社群，这是一种爱好或追求，我认为确实给人们带来了很多快乐。

I think for certain people, although there isn't joy in a gustatory sense of eating these protein bars, there is a lot of joy in the process of optimizing in this feeling that by consuming foods like the David bar, we're moving ourselves just incrementally closer to a physically perfect version of ourselves. And there is a community that has been established around that, and it is a hobby or sort of a pursuit that that I think does bring people a lot of joy.

对。我想你告诉我们的是，至少从影响者的角度来看，这部分是为了让我们变得足够强壮，这样当我们老了，我们可以，你知道的，把孙子举到空中，和他们玩耍，跑来跑去。当然，这其中的快乐是有的。

Right. And and I guess what you did tell us was that part of this is, at least from the influencer's perspective, about making ourselves strong enough so that when we're older, we can, you know, lift our grandkids into the air, play with them, run around. And, certainly, there would be joy in that.

绝对如此。我还认为吃蛋白质已经变成了一种身份或生活方式。人们似乎从他们遵循的饮食类型中获得归属感。这有点部落化的特质。所以我认为这其中也有一个元素是关于融入一个群体，并在一个有着共同营养目标的人群中找到自己的身份。

Absolutely. And I also think that eating protein has become something more like an identity or a lifestyle. People seem to get a sense of belonging from the types of diets they follow. There's sort of a tribal quality to it. So I think there's an element to this that's also about fitting in with a group and finding your identity in a group of people with shared nutritional goals.

对。我的意思是，你感觉你和你的同类在一起，你的部落，或者几乎像宗教一样。

Right. I mean, you you feel like you're with your people, your tribe, or like religion almost.

你说宗教很有意思，因为当我与人们谈论他们吃什么时——这是我工作中经常做的事情——现在人们谈论他们的饮食方式有一种近乎福音派的特质。人们真的相信他们选择的饮食，并以一种几乎是基于信仰的活动方式围绕它们建立社群。和宗教一样，营养潮流有自己的先知。和宗教一样，营养潮流有这种通往正义的道路，如果你按照某些原则以某种方式生活，你将达到一种超越减肥或增肌的涅槃境界。对我来说，感觉对某些人来说，这正是他们从中真正获得的。

It's interesting that you say religion because when I talk to people about what they eat, which is something that I do a lot in my line of work, there's something about the way that people talk about their diets these days that has this almost evangelical quality to it. People really buy into the diets they choose, and they build community around them in a way that is almost like a faith based activity. And like religion, nutrition fads have their own profits. And like religion, nutrition fads have this sort of path to righteousness laid out, where if you live in a certain way according to certain principles, you will achieve this kind of nirvana that goes way beyond losing weight or gaining muscle. And it feels to me that for some people, that's what they're really getting out of this.

突然之间，蛋白质似乎有点精神层面的意义了。

Suddenly, protein is seeming kinda spiritual.

不是对我们所有人来说。对很多人来说，吃蛋白质仍然是为了增加几磅肌肉，或者为了撑到晚餐。但是，是的，我认为对某些人来说确实如此。伊丽莎白，非常感谢。谢谢你，娜塔莉。

Not for all of us. For a lot of people, eating protein is still about trying to pack on a couple pounds of muscle, trying to stay full until dinner. But, yeah, I think for some people, it is. Elizabeth, thanks so much. Thanks, Natalie.

我们稍后回来。以下是今天你需要了解的其他消息。周一晚间，特朗普总统宣布他将以一项异常且法律上存疑的操作，解除美联储董事会成员丽莎·库克的职务。特朗普指称库克可能伪造记录以获取有利的抵押贷款条件，并表示这些指控已使这位首位担任该职位的黑人女性失去公信力。

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Monday night, president Trump said he was removing one of the Federal Reserve's board members, Lisa Cook, in an extraordinary and legally dubious maneuver. Trump pointed to allegations that Cook may have falsified records to get favorable terms on a mortgage. He said those accusations had compromised Cook, who's the first black woman to serve on

董事会席位。但总统对其日益增长的对美联储怒火的真实原因毫不掩饰。数月来，他一直在公开批评央行将利率维持在他期望的水平之上。库克尚未因任何不当行为受到指控，她可能会对解职决定提出挑战，这可能引发一场关于总统权限的标志性法律斗争。

the board. But the president hasn't made a secret of the true reason for his growing anger towards the Fed. For months, he's been loudly criticizing the nation's central bank for keeping interest rates higher than he wants. Cook hasn't been charged with any wrongdoing, and she could seek to challenge her dismissal, which could set up a landmark legal battle over the president's authority.

周一加沙地带发生两起以色列空袭医院事件，造成20人死亡。遇难者包括医护人员和五名记者，他们所属机构包括路透社和美联社。以色列军方承认在纳赛尔医院附近实施了空袭，但未说明具体目标。总理本雅明·内塔尼亚胡办公室罕见发表声明，称此次袭击是'悲剧性意外'，并表示以色列重视医务人员和记者的工作。本轮加沙冲突中已有至少192名记者遇难。

And 20 people were killed in Gaza on Monday when two Israeli strikes hit a hospital. Among the dead were medical workers and five journalists working outlets that included Reuters and the Associated Press. The Israeli military said it had carried out a strike in the area of Nasser hospital, but didn't say what the target was. The office of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu put out a rare statement expressing regret for the strike, calling it a, quote, tragic mishap and saying Israel values the work of medical staff and journalists. At least a 192 journalists have been killed in the war in Gaza.

以色列政府禁止国际记者自由进入加沙报道，这使得世界只能依靠巴勒斯坦记者来了解加沙地面实况。本期节目由里基·内维茨基、亚历克斯·斯特恩、克莱尔·特内斯克特、安娜·弗利和凯特琳·奥基夫制作，布伦丹·克林肯伯格和佩吉·考伊特编辑，阿丽莎·莫克斯利负责技术制作。以上就是本期《每日新闻》，我是娜塔莉·基特罗夫。

The Israeli government has prohibited international journalists from entering Gaza to report freely, leaving the world to rely on Palestinian journalists to understand what's happening on the ground in Gaza. Today's episode was produced by Ricky Nevetsky, Alex Stern, Claire Tenesketter, Anna Foley, and Caitlin O'Keefe. It was edited by Brendan Klinkenberg and Paige Cowitt and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroefe.

明天见。

See you tomorrow.