周日特辑：十大最佳恐怖电影系列

嘿。我是《纽约时报》旗下产品推荐服务Wirecutter的Lauren Dragon，负责测试耳机。我们基本上会自制人工汗液，反复喷洒在耳机上，观察它们随时间的变化。

Hey. It's Lauren Dragon from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times, and I test headphones. We basically make our own fake sweat and spray it over and over on these headphones to see what happens to them over time.

我们将戴上降噪耳机，测试它们实际隔音效果如何。

We're gonna put on some noise canceling headphones and see how well they actually block out the sounds.

我的数据库里有3,136条记录。儿童款、运动款、蓝牙版本？在Wirecutter，我们替您完成这些繁琐工作。如需真实世界的独立产品评测与推荐，请访问nytimes.com/wirecutter。

I have 3,136 entries in my database. Kids, workout, what version of Bluetooth? At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come visit us at nytimes.com/wirecutter.

我是Gilbert Cruz，这里是周日特辑。我对今天的节目兴奋不已。制作人，请播放诡异音乐。我超爱万圣节，喜欢那种毛骨悚然的氛围。

I'm Gilbert Cruz, and this is the Sunday special. I could not be more excited about today's episode. Producers, cue the spooky music. I love Halloween. I love the spooky vibes.

我爱糖果，尤其喜欢迷你Heath巧克力棒。但比这些更让我痴迷的是恐怖片，这正是我们今天要讨论的话题。与我同场的是Eric Pepenberg，《纽约时报》恐怖电影专栏作家。

I love candy. I specifically love, like, mini Heath bars. But maybe more than all of that, I am obsessed with scary movies, and that is what we are talking about today. Here with me is Eric Pepenberg. He is the horror movie columnist at the Times.

你好Eric。你好Gilbert。还有我们首位返场嘉宾——多么荣幸——Jason Zinnerman，特约评论家，著有《惊悚价值：一群怪咖如何让我们做噩梦、征服好莱坞并创造现代恐怖片》。为什么这个副标题这么长？

Hi, Eric. Hello, Gilbert. And our first returning guest, what an honor, Jason Zinnerman, a critic at large and the author of the book, Shock Value, How a Few Eccentric Outsiders Gave Us Nightmares, Conquered Hollywood, and Invented Modern Horror. Why is this subtitle so long?

确实太长了。那时我还年轻。但我...我...我刚卖出法语版权。这本书即将在法国上市——真的，今天刚签完授权。

It's way too long. I was young. But I I I knew knew I just sold the French rights. It's coming out in France. Literally, today, I signed the rights.

欢迎，杰森。很高兴来到这里。好的。我把你们两个请来是有特别原因的。今天，我们要根据我们三人的意见，列出电影史上最伟大的恐怖系列作品的权威榜单。

Welcome, Jason. Good to be here. Okay. I brought the two of you on here for a very particular reason. Today, we're going to come up with the definitive list of the greatest horror franchises in cinema history, according to us three.

我们要一起制定这个榜单。我们会达成共识。我们会和睦相处，最后还会拥抱——我会在结束时拥抱你们。

We're gonna make this list. We're all gonna agree. We're gonna get along, and then we'll hug I'll hug at the end.

也许吧。

Maybe.

也许？也许吧。走着瞧。好吧，得保留点悬念，吉尔伯特。

Maybe? Maybe. We'll see. Okay. Gotta keep some suspense, Gilbert.

你说得对。你说得对。好的。在我们开始这项艰巨任务之前——这确实是个艰巨任务——我想知道你们对当前恐怖电影的现状有何看法。比如，你们觉得2025年这个类型片现在处于什么阶段？

You're right. You're right. Okay. Before we jump into this task, and it is a a hearty task, I wanna know how you all are feeling about the current state of horror movies. Like, how are we feeling about where the genre is right now in this year 2025?

埃里克。

Eric.

我对现状感到乐观。我认为我们现在正处于恐怖片的一个持久黄金时代。这个时期大概是从《逃出绝命镇》开始的，我觉得现在仍在延续。单就今年而言，《武器》是我很长时间以来看过的最佳恐怖片之一。我们看到许多新面孔、新的恐怖片表现手法。

I'm feeling good about it. I think we are in a sort of prolonged golden age of of horror right now. The period that's sort of started with Get Out, I think, is continuing. And when I think about just this year alone, Weapons as just one of the the best horror movies I've seen in quite some time. We're seeing a lot of new faces, new ways of seeing horror.

杰森，你是这么认为的吗？

Jason, do you think so?

这比我预想的要乐观一些。我认为我们正处于黄金时代的末期，或者说旧时代刚刚结束。但如果要用一个词来概括当下这个时代，我会选择‘体面’——这个词有两层含义。我们正处在一个追求奥斯卡奖的恐怖片时代，《罪人》、《武器》、《弗兰肯斯坦》，这些都会成为话题。

It I it's a little more optimistic than I would say. I think we're at the end of the golden age, or think maybe or maybe the old age just ended. But I have to say if I was to, like, sum up the the era right now in a word, it would be respectable, which is to in both senses of the word. We're in an era of prestige Oscar bait horror. Sinners, weapons, Frankenstein, this is all gonna be in the conversation.

这不是一个声名狼藉的时代，对吧？但如果你以平庸之作来衡量一个恐怖片时代，其实也不算太糟。比如我还挺喜欢《危险动物》，就是另一部鲨鱼题材的电影。

This is not in the disreputable era. Right? Yeah. But if you judge a horror era by its mediocrities, it's not too bad either. I mean, I I liked dangerous animals, which is like another shark movie.

我刚看了《坠落》这部电影，虽然它经不起时间考验，整部片子就是一场糟糕的约会，但作为惊悚片还算合格。所以我觉得今年比过去几年要好些。

I just watched this movie drop, which, again, is not like gonna last the test of time. It's a it's a a set all in one bad date, but it kind of works as a thriller. So I I think it's been a better year than the than the last couple, I would say.

有意思的是你们都提到了这些大制片厂的恐怖片，《罪人》、《武器》、《死神来了》系列最新作（这个我们稍后会讨论）、《血统》，还有《招魂》系列最新作——这可是史上最成功的恐怖片系列之一。这些大片都在上映，但与此同时独立恐怖片似乎依然活跃，比如今年的《带她回来》，还有戴夫·弗兰科和艾莉森·布里夫妻档主演的那部电影。

Yeah. It is interesting because both of you talked about these sort of big studio horror movies, Sinners, Weapons, the latest in the Final Destination franchise, which we will talk about, Bloodlines, and then the latest Conjuring movie, which is one of the most successful horror franchises of all time. Those are all out, but at the same time, it feels like there is a still a thriving sort of indie horror scene. You know, this year, you had Bring Her Back. You had a movie together, which was a Dave Franco, Alison Brie movie that was sold.

我记得这是今年圣丹斯电影节最早成交的影片之一，

I think it was one of the first movies sold at this year's Sundance Film Festival for a

很多

lot of

金钱。所以现在的情况似乎是，大制片厂在推出相当不错的恐怖片，独立制片方也在推出相当不错的恐怖片。布伦屋（Blumhouse）作为廉价恐怖片唯一制造者的时代已经有点褪色了，因为恐怖片是票房收入的可靠保证。无论你是大制片厂还是小工作室，都知道有一群狂热的粉丝基础，现在大家都纷纷加入了这个游戏。

money. So it feels like the studios are putting out pretty good horror. Indies are putting out pretty good horror. The days of Blumhouse being the maker of cheap horror movies alone has sort of faded a little bit because horror is a reliable box office draw. Because that whether you're a big studio or a small studio, you know that there is this very rabid fan base that everyone has sort of gotten into the game.

我今年听过关于恐怖片类型最有趣的播客是杰森·布伦（Jason Blum）上了马特·贝利尼（Matt Bellini）的播客《The Town》。他们讨论了为什么《梅根》（Megan）的续集《梅根2》会失败。

I'd the most interesting podcast I heard about the horror genre now this year was Jason Blum went on Matt Bellini's podcast, The Town Yeah. To talk about why the sequel to Megan, Megan two, flopped.

是的。这位杰森·布伦可以说是布伦屋背后的男人，本世纪制作和发行了大量恐怖电影。

Yeah. And this is Jason Blum who is sort of the man behind Blumhouse, which has produced and distributed a bunch of horror movies this century.

没错，正是如此。

Yeah. Right. Exactly.

《灵动：鬼影实录》、《潜伏》，还有一大堆其他作品。

Paranormal Activity, Insidious, a bunch of other stuff.

是的。他说廉价恐怖片的黄金时代已经过去了。从杰森·布伦口中说出这话很有分量。他表示，现在面对这么多竞争，你需要一个‘大事件’，所以实际上需要制作高成本的恐怖片。

Yeah. And he said the days when cheap horror was the way to go are gone. And for Jason Blum to say that is really something. That he said that now, with all the competition, you need an event. And so you actually need to have an expensive horror.

你需要真正做出差异化。我知道很多人不同意这个观点，这引起了很大反响。但他说出这番话，暗示了恐怖片行业内部存在某种焦虑：好吧，下一部《女巫布莱尔》或《灵动：鬼影实录》在哪里？等等。

You need to to really make a difference. I I know a lot of people who disagree with that, and that caused a lot of waves. But the fact that he said it suggested there was some anxiety among the horror establishment about, okay. Where's the next Blair Witch paranormal activity, etcetera?

是的。我想说，在大制作的另一面，撰写这个专栏最棒的事情之一就是能发掘那些被主流忽视的独立电影。比如今年初上映的《嗜血》，这部以成瘾者视角讲述的吸血鬼故事。还有新片《好孩子》，讲一只狗闯入鬼屋的故事。这些小成本电影看起来...

Yeah. I I would say sort of on on the flip side of the of the big pictures, I would say one of the nice things about doing this column is that I get to discover under the radar indie movies. I'm thinking of a movie like Bleeding, which came out earlier this year as this vampire story about told through the eyes of addiction. Good Boy, this new movie about this dog who goes to a haunted house. These small movies look.

每个月都有15到20部全新流媒体电影可供选择，这还不包括那些大制作。但真正令人兴奋的是看到这么多恐怖片导演都在拍摄这类小成本电影——对我来说，它们比《合家欢》这类电影（我个人不太喜欢）要有效且恐怖得多。最激动人心的是看到年轻电影人运用恐怖片传统元素，却以新颖又令人不安的方式呈现。

Every month, have, I would say, from 15 to 20 brand new movies that are streaming to choose from, and that doesn't include the bigger movies. But to be able to just see how many horror movie directors are just doing this small little movie that to me, in some ways, is far more effective and scary than a movie like Together, which I I I didn't really like. That to me is what's exciting, that you have young faces who are using some of the horror conventions, but telling them in new, very disturbing ways.

我认为我们需要进入正题了。接下来我们会讨论团队整理的二十多个恐怖电影系列。听众朋友们，先说清楚，如果你们最爱的系列没上榜，我也只能说这档节目时长有限。

So I think we need to move to the meat of this conversation. So here's what we're gonna do. We have a list here of a couple dozen or so horror franchises that the group of us came up with. And listeners, I just wanna say here right at the front, if your favorite franchise isn't on here, I don't know what to say. The show can only be so long.

这些系列是按年代排序的，我们的目标是最终选出史上十佳恐怖电影系列。现在先快速过一遍这个大名单，对每个系列简单投赞成或反对票。有些系列会很快通过，因为它们足够经典；有些则需要稍作讨论再决定。

These franchises are arranged chronologically, and the goal here is to eventually get to a list of what we consider to be the 10 best horror franchises of all time. So I think we should start by going through this big list. We'll give a quick yes or no to each of these franchises. Some I think are going to move on very quickly because they feel obvious or iconic. And then some we're probably going to chat about a little bit before we make a decision.

为便于讨论，我将'系列电影'定义为多部关联影片——由首部曲衍生出续作，包含反复出现的反派、英雄或场景。你们两位觉得这个定义合适吗？

And for the sake of this discussion, I'm defining a franchise as a series of related films. There's one film that results in multiple sequels that have recurring villains or recurring heroes or recurring locations. Does that sound right to two of you?

我觉得这个定义糟透了。不，我...我...我...

I think that's a terrible definition. Okay. No. I I I I I think

好吧，看来这期播客要录三小时了。

Alright. So this podcast is gonna be three hours long.

好吧，我想我们可以从头开始，我觉得这是个不错的开始。当你问到，我们在讨论这个问题时，一部恐怖电影系列何时才算开始？对我来说，在环球影业的怪物电影中，1931年开始的那些，比如《科学怪人》、《德古拉》、《化身博士》，第一部有重要续集的是《科学怪人的新娘》。嗯。

Well, I guess my let's start at the begin I think it's a good I think it's a good start. When I you asked, like, when when we were doing this, when does a horror movie franchise begin? And to me, among the Universal monster movies that in the started in 1931, which, you know, Frankenstein, Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde, the the first one to have a major follow-up is Bride of Frankenstein. Mhmm.

你留下。我们属于死亡。

You stay. We belong dead.

一旦有了《科学怪人的新娘》，对我来说那就是第一部。是的。但我不确定这算不算。

As soon as you have Bride of Frankenstein, to me, that's the first one. Yeah. And I'm not sure that qualifies.

我认为算。我确实认为它符合标准。如果你回顾所有环球影业的怪物电影，它绝对有一种系列电影的感觉。有《科学怪人的新娘》，如你所提到的，还有《科学怪人之子》。最终还有《科学怪人遇见狼人》。

I think it does. I do think it qualifies. I think if you look back at all the Universal monster movies, I it definitely has a feel of a franchise. You have Bride of Frankenstein, as as you mentioned, Son of Frankenstein. You have Frankenstein meeting the wolf man eventually.

在这个世界里，早在我们想到互联宇宙之前，就有一种统一的风格。角色之间相互互动。这些电影中有些基本上就是直接续集。感觉这就是开端。

You have this world before we ever thought about interconnected universes in which, you know, there's a house style. Characters are interacting with one another. You have essentially direct sequels to some of these movies. It feels like this is the beginning.

但对我来说，将这些联系在一起的是怪物和角色本身，某种程度上我想把《新科学怪人》包括在内，就像我想把《僵尸肖恩》归入僵尸系列一样。我不想遵循好莱坞制片人的规则。是的。

But what ties it all together to me is is the the monster and the character in a way that I would like to include, like, young Frankenstein in a way I like to include I like to include Shaun of the Dead in the Dead series. I don't wanna go by the the rules of Hollywood producer. Yeah.

但你明白我们需要有规则，对吧？

But you understand that we need to have rules here. Right?

我就是来打破规则的，吉尔伯特，这就是我的目的。不，我会接受任何定义。

I am whore's about breaking rules, Gilbert, and that's what I'm here for. No. I'll go along with the whatever definition

你的定义。好吧，埃里克，我们知道混乱的源头是谁。我们能否同意继续推进全民选举权？

you have. Okay. Eric, we know who the chaos agent is. Can we agree Universal franchise should proceed?

我、我、我认为应该继续。我明白你的意思，杰森。我也觉得你提出了很好的观点，但答案是肯定的。就我们当前的目的而言，让我们继续推进这件事。

I I I think it should proceed. I hear you, Jason. I also think you make some really good points, but the answer is yes. For our purposes here, let's continue on that one.

好的。我们将时间线移到1960年代初。确切地说是1960年，当时诞生了第一部砍杀电影——如果我们认为希区柯克的永恒经典《惊魂记》属于砍杀电影的话。

Okay. We're gonna move to the early nineteen sixties. 1960, in fact, when one of the first slasher movies, the first slasher movie, if we consider Psycho, Alfred Hitchcock's all time classic to be a slasher movie.

我们都有疯狂的时候。

We all go a little mad sometimes.

该片于1960年上映。难道不是吗？没人想到它会成为一个系列，但从80年代初开始，就有了《惊魂记2》《惊魂记3》，然后是作为前传电视电影的《惊魂记4》。这很诡异，我们会遇到其中一些作品。

Came out in 1960. Haven't you? No one thought it would be a franchise, but starting in the early eighties, you had Psycho two, Psycho three, and then Psycho four at the beginning, which was a prequel TV movie. This is very weird. We're gonna encounter some of these.

这个系列的首部曲是影史最伟大的电影之一。但作为一个整体系列，我不确定是否该把它列入榜单。不过我看着杰森，我知道...

It's a franchise where the first movie is one of the greatest movies of all time. As a franchise, as something that is, like, all held together, I don't know that I would put it on the list, but I'm looking at Jason, and I know

其实不然。在恐怖片爱好者圈子里，《惊魂记2》已经获得了重新评价，你知道，著名的昆汀·塔伦蒂诺就认为它比第一部更好，而且持这种观点的不止他一人。但我重看之后，它确实比不上第一部，但仍是一部非常出色的电影。它深入挖掘了原作未曾触及的内容。

Well, no. Among horror nerds, Psycho two has has developed a reevaluate you know, famous Quentin Tarantino prefers it to Psycho, and he's not the only one. But I watched it again. It's definitely not better than the first one, but it's a very good movie. It really digs into the things that the original does not.

我还要为同样不受待见的格斯·范·桑特逐帧翻拍版辩护。我欣赏这种野心。虽然它不在我的前十之列，但我认为《惊魂记》《惊魂记2》加上格斯·范·桑特版——尽管第三、四部很糟糕——它们共同构成了一个值得关注的系列，更何况原作本就是史上最重要的恐怖片之一。

And I would also argue Gus Van Sant's equally disliked shot by shot remake. I admire the ambition of that. I'm not saying it's my top 10, but I think that Psycho and Psycho two plus the Gus Van Sant, three and four are are terrible, make it a worthy franchise along with, obviously, you know, one of the most important horror movies ever.

我们暂且把这个列入待定区，这样合适吗？

We're gonna put this one on the bubble. Does that feel right?

我觉得没问题。

That feels fine with me.

嗯，我

Yeah. I'm

我同意这个安排。

I'm good with that.

下一个是《活死人之夜》系列。

The next one, the Night of the Living Dead series.

坎伯兰调查发现，在所有案件中，凶手都在食用被害者的血肉。稍后会重复这一点

Cumberland have concluded that in all cases, the killers are eating the flesh of the people they murdered. Repeating this later

乔治·罗梅罗那部极低成本的电影开创了恐怖片中的子类型——丧尸片。这部作品意义重大且极具标志性，我们完全可以直接将其列入待讨论电影清单。好的。接下来是1973年的《驱魔人》

George Romero's extremely low budget movie that kicked off an entire subgenre within horror, the zombie movie. This feels important and iconic enough that we can automatically move this on to the list of films that we're gonna discuss later. Right. Yeah. Next, The Exorcist 1973.

你杀害了自己的母亲。你抛弃了她。我太爱太爱太爱《驱魔人》了。第一次观看时那是我经历过最恐怖的体验，此后余生我一直在追寻那种战栗感

You killed your mother. You left her alone. I love, love, love, love, love The Exorcist. First time I saw it was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had. I've been chasing that experience ever since for the rest of my life.

吉尔伯特，你有宗教信仰吗？我是在天主教环境下长大的。这就对了。这会影响观影体验吗？

Are you religious, Gilbert? I grew up Catholic. There you go. That makes a difference?

我明白了

I I got it.

是的，确实有影响。没错

Yeah. Does make a difference. Yeah.

对，差别可大了。确实

Yeah. Big difference. Yeah.

我觉得值得列入这份清单。说实话，我不太喜欢原版之后的那些续集电影。Jason，我知道你最近选了《Extra Sist》系列里的一个跳吓镜头作为你最喜欢的恐怖片段之一。

Think it's worth it's worth putting on this list. I I think I don't love the films after the original so much. I know, Jason, I think you picked a jump scare from from the Extra Sist films as one of your favorite jump scares recently.

三选其一

Three as one of

史上最棒的跳吓镜头之一。

the best jump scares ever.

你看啊。重温那个场景的几分钟片段，我认为那确实是我见过最恐怖的东西之一。所以我欣赏它有这种经典镜头。虽然我不喜欢这些续集，但既然在讨论范围内——点赞。

Which look. Watching those few minutes of that scene, I think, are truly one of the scariest things I've ever seen. So I appreciate that it has one of those scenes. But I don't love them, but is it in in this discussion? Thumbs up.

我要给它点赞，原因很简单：我喜欢一个系列里存在烂片的感觉。虽然我不喜欢...

I'm gonna give it thumbs up for in in for one reason. One of the things I like about a franchise is when there's terrible movies in it. I I don't like

这个不错。

This is good.

《驱魔人2》我只能说——詹姆斯·厄尔·琼斯穿了套蜜蜂装

Exorcist two, all I can say is James Earl Jones wears a bee suit

在《驱魔人》里，那是一件蝗虫装。

in in Exorcist It is a locust suit.

一件蝗虫装。好吧。好吧。好吧。

A locust suit. Okay. Okay. Okay.

其实在《驱魔人2》里，那个异教徒穿的就是蝗虫装。

Actually, in Exorcist two, the heretic, he wears a locust suit.

天啊。好吧。单凭这一点，对吧，单凭这个画面，我觉得就足以让它被列入考虑范围，成为一部令人难忘的电影。埃里克完全正确。第三部有个场景比大多数恐怖电影都更令人难忘。

Oh god. Okay. That alone, right, that image alone, I think should qualify it for it to be under consideration as, like, a memorable it's a memorable movie. Eric's absolutely right. The third one has this one scene that's memorable and more memorable than most horror movies.

我不认为它能进前十，但我觉得我们应该考虑它。

I don't think it's gonna end up being one top 10, but I would say we should we should consider it.

好吧。我直接说下一部——《德州电锯杀人狂》，托比·胡珀1974年的作品。这个应该继续讨论。我们接着聊《大白鲨》。

Alright. I'm just gonna say the next one, which is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Toby Hooper's film from 1974. This should continue. So we're gonna keep this one going. Jaws.

我要坦白一件事。我从来没看过《大白鲨》，而且永远不会看。

I have a confession. I have never seen Jaws, and I will never see Jaws.

什么？抱歉。你在做什么？

What? Sorry. What are you doing?

制片人们目瞪口呆。拜托。那个

Producers' mouths agape. Please. The

听着，我之前就坦白过，所以这不是什么新鲜事。但我有个非常非常严重的——我有严重的鲨鱼恐惧症。我记得坐在俄亥俄州克利夫兰的Dairy Queen里，看着那张巨大的《大白鲨》海报，上面有个小小的女人在海报顶端。

Look. I have confessed this before, so this is not breaking news. But I have a terrible, horrible I I have a severe shark phobia. And I remember sitting in Dairy Queen in Cleveland, Ohio, looking at the poster of the giant Jaws with that tiny little lady up at the top.

是啊。标志性的海报。

Yeah. Iconic poster.

标志性海报。它给我留下了终身阴影。我不去游泳。我甚至不去游泳池，因为可能有大白鲨潜伏在水下。

Iconic poster. It has scarred me for life. I don't go swimming. I don't go in swimming pools because there might be a Jaws underneath me.

等等...为什么会有鲨鱼在游泳池里？

Lates Why would they be why would a shark be in a swimming pool?

马桶。它们可能出现在任何地方。马桶。我告诉你这是...这是个严重的心理阴影。别刺激我。

Toilets. They could be anywhere. Toilets. I I'm telling you it's it's a severe trivia. Don't trigger me.

我要在这里做个决定性的判断。第一部电影，我认为是恐怖片中的经典之作。没错。但接着出了三部糟糕的续集。这对我来说根本不像个恐怖系列。

I'm gonna I'm gonna make an executive decision here. The first movie, I would say one of the great horror movies. Yeah. And then you have three terrible sequels. This doesn't feel like a horror franchise to me.

感觉更像是鲨鱼题材系列。1976年的《凶兆》。

It feels like a a shark franchise. The Omen 1976.

看着我，达米安。这一切都是为了你。

Look at me, Damien. It's all for you.

你喜欢这个，《凶兆》第一部。我

You love this, the first Omen. I

觉得最近上映的前传，由阿卡莎·史蒂文森执导的《第一凶兆》非常出色。

thought the the the prequel that came out recently, the first Omen directed by Arkasha Stevenson was fantastic.

太棒了。我同意。

Fantastic. I agree.

原版《凶兆》是部不错的恐怖片，但后来出了一堆烂作。是啊。所以其实我不确定。这是七十年代最著名的系列之一，但我真不觉得该把它往前推。

The original Omen is a is a good horror movie, and then you had a bunch of not good stuff. Yeah. So I actually don't know. It's one of the more famous franchises from the seventies. I actually don't know if I would sort of push it ahead.

看，我已经列出了一些我认为重要的事项。其中一点我们都认同的是文化影响力。对，我不确定《凶兆》具备这一点。

Look. The there I've laid out a few things I think are important. One that I think we all agree is sort of cultural footprint. Yeah. And I'm not sure the omen has has that.

对，就像是恐怖片界的《阿凡达》。

Yeah. It's like the Avatar of horror movies.

哎哟，毫无文化影响力。确实。

Ouch. No cultural footprint. Yeah.

1977年的《隔山有眼》，这是韦斯·克雷文系列电影中首个登上本榜单的作品。

Nineteen seventy seven's The Hills Have Eyes. This is the first of several Wes Craven franchises on this list.

你开货车。范·杜·泽。

You van. Van Du Zay.

对此我有强烈看法。好吧。

I got strong opinions on this. Okay.

它应该上榜。它绝对应该上榜。而且我敢说会有其他韦斯·克雷文的系列电影被其他人提名，但我不会选。

It should be on the list. It should be it should be on the list. And I'm gonna say there's gonna be some Wes Craven franchises that that other people are gonna wanna put on that I'm not.

我对事情的发展方向已经感到不满了。

I am not happy with where this is going already.

我知道，我知道。这就是我的观点。原版和重启版都很棒。重启版，亚历克斯·阿嘉的那部

I know. I know. The hill here's my my case. The the original and the reboot are both great. The reboot, the Alexandra Aja

有一部电影讲的是生活在沙漠中的食人族部落。

There's a movie about a clan of cannibals that live in the desert.

而且你知道，它某种程度上借鉴了《德州电锯杀人狂》的元素。嗯。但我认为这是个很棒的系列，因为它有部出色的电影，也有部糟糕的续集，然后它还有个成功的重启版——这种成就我觉得没几个系列能做到。

And, you know, it's sort of building on some Texas chainsaw elements. Mhmm. But I I think it's it's a great franchise because it has this, you know, a great movie. It has a crummy sequel. Then it the fact that it has a a successful reboot, which I don't think we'll be able to say about that many.

你看过这些吗？

Have you seen these?

我我我没看过。我觉得它不该出现在这个榜单上。就像《凶兆》一样，我不认为它算是一个系列。我明白你的意思杰森，但我觉得它不该上榜的原因和...类似

I I I haven't. I think it does not belong on this list. Like like The Omen, I don't consider it a a a franchise necessarily, I think. I hear what you're saying, Jason. I don't think it it belongs here for the similar same reasons as as

我们给它标个黄标吧。我很欣赏杰森的时尚品味。

Let's let's give it a yellow. I appreciate Jason's fashion.

是的，我也是。我很感激这一点。

Yeah. I I do too. I appreciate that.

你，埃里克。

You, Eric.

看，关于杰森有件事。他非常聪明，是个有品位的思考者，而我却像是...

See, here's the thing about Jason. He's so smart and a very, like he's a classy thinker where I'm like,

我喜欢怪兽电影因为脑袋会爆炸，因为它很蠢。不，其实不是。它某种程度上...

I like monster movies because heads explode because it's stupid. No. It's not. It's kind

属于我这类...这就是

of my sort of Here's

关于埃里克有件事。你可能知道，他来自克利夫兰。他在鲁布牌上扮演克利夫兰角色。是的，他比我们所有人都聪明。

a thing about Eric. You might know this, but he's from Cleveland. He plays the Cleveland on the Rube card. Yeah. He's smarter than any of us.

他的恐怖专栏，我每期必读绝对不能错过。所以别上当。他只是想摆脱希尔斯代·比斯。希尔斯之眼在名单上。

His horror column, I never miss must must read. So don't fall for this. He's just trying to get Hillside Bies out of here. Hill's Eyes on the list.

它正处于风口浪尖。1978年的《月光光心慌慌》。

It's on the bubble. Nineteen seventy eight's Halloween.

你知道的，这是万圣节。我想每个人都有权被好好吓一次。

You know, it's Halloween. I guess everyone's entitled to one good scare.

作为最具影响力的恐怖电影系列之一，这简直是毋庸置疑的。我们稍后再讨论这个。我们应该继续推进。没错。好的。

In the running, for the most influential horror movie franchise, one of the most influential horror movie franchises, this this is just an automatic. We will discuss this later. We should move this along. Correct. Okay.

《幻象》。

Phantasm.

我一直在等你。

I've been waiting for you.

这部片子里有个高个子男人，长相瘆人，还有那些带尖刺的飞球。

This is the one with the the tall man who's creepy looking, and there's these flying balls that have spikes.

我要说这是部冷峻的经典之作，七十年代最被低估的恐怖片。确实。

I'm gonna say stone cold classic, most underrated horror film of the seventies. Sure.

我附议。我附议。

I I second that. I second that.

那个高个子男人是伟大的恐怖电影反派之一。如果我们生活在一个公平的世界，吉尔伯特，高个子男人的讨论度应该和迈克尔·迈尔斯、皮脸人一样高。

The tall man is one of the great Yeah. Horror movie villains. It should be we it should be if the we lived in a fair world, Gilbert. Alright? If we lived in a just world, we the tall man would be talking about the way Michael Myers and Leatherface are.

《鬼追人》第一部很棒，第二部也很棒。超现实又迷幻的影像风格，可能是有史以来最棒的镜子惊吓镜头——这可不是小成就。

Phantasm one great. Phantasm two's great. Just surreal trippy imagery. Maybe the best mirror scare of all time, which is no small thing.

这些直接发行录像带的续集，我们该把它们算作正传的一部分吗？

These have straight to video sequels. Do we feel like those counts as part of a feature?

这更让人心动了。

That sweetens the pot.

这甚至

Is this even

更有趣？更诱人。直接发行录像带的我也照单全收，绝对要看。

more interesting? More delicious. Straight to video, I'll eat that up. Absolutely.

我把《幻影》作为一个系列，我们可以在万圣节前后讨论这个话题。

I put Phantasm as a franchise, and we could talk about that above Halloween.

我...我也是在激烈辩论中。

I I'm Fighting words too.

我真的听见你说的了。

I literally hear you.

我被震撼到了。

Am struck.

静音。我是说，我有一整套论点，但我们可以等等。

Mutes. I I mean, I got a whole argument for it, but we can wait.

我通常能快速回击，但这次我不知道该说什么。好吧，我们把这个也列入待定名单。《鬼哭神嚎》1979年版。这段内容合适吗？

We can I'm usually Fast with the comeback, but I don't know what to say about that. Alright. Let's let's put this on on the bubble as well. The Amityville Horror 1979. Is the passage well?

关于《鬼哭神嚎》有件事要说。我统计过大约有70部续集

Here's the thing about the Amityville Horror. I I counted there are approximately 70 sequels

说到《鬼哭神嚎》。没错，阿米蒂维尔是长岛上一个镇的名字，而你不能给一个镇名申请版权。

to the Amityville Horror. Yeah. Amityville is the name of a town on Long Island, and you can't copyright the name of a town.

正确。阿米蒂维尔已经成为恐怖加其他元素的代名词。有《阿米蒂维尔恶邻》，有《阿米蒂维尔圣诞假期》，还有《阿米蒂维尔毒气室》。

Correct. Amityville has become the shorthand for just the scary and then plus this other thing. There's the Amityville Karen. There's the Amityville Christmas Vacation. There's the Amityville Gas Chamber.

我是说，这些成本两美元的荒谬电影，只要贴上阿米蒂维尔的标签就能拍出来，镇上居民对此很不满。但没关系，有些电影很棒，大部分很烂。但作为一个系列，确实如此。

I mean, there's just, like, these ridiculous films made for $2 that you just slap on the word Amityville, and the town isn't happy about that. But that's okay. Some of the movies are are are great. Most of them are bad. But as a franchise, yes.

你们这些家伙

You guys

简直是疯了。

are out of your mind.

我拒绝。

I'll say no.

我要说

I'll say

不。我会说不。我会说不。不因为有一个我可以

no. I'll say no. I'll say no. No because there's a I can

哦，所以现在埃里克不聪明了。

Oh, so now Eric's not smart.

我在房间里。不是没有空间，但他的论点很有说服力。他几乎用70分说服了我。太疯狂了。我完全没头绪。

I'm in the room. Not out of room, but he makes a good argument. He's almost persuaded me with 70. That's crazy. I have no idea.

这确实是个非常有力的论据。但我要说，鬼屋系列，有好几家鬼屋连锁品牌比这个更出色。

That's that is a very strong case for it. But I'm gonna say, haunted house, there's there's several haunted house franchises that are better than this one.

好吧。

Okay.

我认为这正是它曾经巨大的文化影响力如今衰退的部分原因。我甚至会说它都不是关于中世纪的最成功恐怖系列

And I think that's part of why its cultural currency, which was huge once upon a time, has diminished. I would say it's not even the most successful horror franchise about a medieval

恐怖片。行吧。我们把它放在待定区。等有全面共识时我们再推进，有分歧时就先搁置

horror. Alright. Let's put it on the bubble. Let's put it when there's a when there's a wholesale agreement, we'll move it forward. When there's disagreement, put it on

那个泡泡。

the bubble.

《异形》1979年，第一部电影，斯通

Alien 1979, first movie, Stone

冷门经典。

Cold Classic.

是的。电影。

Yes. Movie.

我们会继续推进。现在来到八十年代，恐怖片的黄金时期，我们将遇到几个史上最著名的系列。不过，我觉得杰森可能会对其中一个有异议

We'll move it forward. We're in the eighties now, the height of the slasher film, and we are gonna come upon a couple of the all time franchises. Although, I think Jason might disagree with one

不，不。

of No. No.

不。《十三号星期五》。继续推进。好的。《鬼驱人》。

No. Friday the thirteenth. Move it forward. Okay. Poltergeist.

他们来了。

They're here.

我...我不太确定这个。我不知道。感觉这系列不值得讨论。

I I don't know about this one. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's a franchise worth talking about.

我在这方面和你看法差不多

I'm kind of on the same page with you on

那个。好吧？《鬼玩人》系列。

that. Okay? The Evil Dead.

确实。

For sure.

绝对符合标准。

Definitely qualifies.

好的。1984年的《猛鬼街》。

Okay. 1984, A Nightmare on Elm Street.

求你了，上帝，这就是上帝。

Please, God, this is God.

我是第一部的粉丝，我认为它非常棒。我知道，埃里克，你是第二部的粉丝。而我是《弗雷迪的复仇》的粉丝。

I am a fan of the first one, which I think is tremendous. I know, Eric, you are a fan of the second one. I am a fan of Freddie's Revenge.

是啊。我们...我我得稍等一下。《猛鬼街》第二部被认为是...呃...那部同性恋主题的。这不是潜台词，就是明说的内容。

Yeah. We're we're I I gotta gate up for a second. The second Nightmare on Elm Street is considered the the the gay one. The it it is not subtext. It is text.

嗯。而这正是我真正喜欢它的地方。所以我肯定地说，《猛鬼街》系列，尤其是第二部，在很多方面都具有影响力，我觉得人们可能没有充分认识到这一点。

Mhmm. And that is what I really enjoy about it. So I think, for sure, Nightmare on Elm Street, especially the second one, which I think is influential in a lot of ways that I'm not sure people fully appreciate.

我想补充一点，对我来说，一个伟大系列的标志——我们都有自己钟爱的系列——而对我来说，这是唯一一个最后一部成为我最爱的系列。

And I would add that for me, what's, I think, a sign of great franchise, we can all point to ones we love. To me, it's the only franchise where the last one is my favorite.

这是《新噩梦》。

This is New New Nightmare.

《新噩梦》，我认为《惊声尖叫》获得的所有赞誉都应该归功于《猛鬼街》。《新噩梦》在《惊声尖叫》之前就玩起了元恐怖片的把戏，而且弗雷迪本来就是个喜剧角色，你知道的，在它基本上被变成喜剧之前。是的。而且，你知道，我有点喜欢它的曲折变化。

New Nightmare, which I think all the credit that goes to Scream should go to Nightmare on Elm Street. New Nightmare was doing meta winking horror before scream, and Freddie was a comic character, you know, before it it was basically turned into a comedy. Yeah. And, you know, I I sort of like the zigs and zags of it.

接下来这部有点特别，但我还是想提一下。1986年的《猎人者》，这是迈克尔·曼导演的犯罪片，但它开启了五年后以《沉默的羔羊》为代表的恐怖系列——后者是极少数获得奥斯卡最佳影片的恐怖片之一。将这些作品串联起来的当然是汉尼拔·莱克特这个角色，布莱恩·考克斯在《猎人者》中首次饰演他，之后则由安东尼·霍普金斯接棒。

The next one, it's a bit of an odd one, but I'm gonna throw it in here. Nineteen eighty six's Manhunter, which is a Michael Mann movie that's really a crime movie, but it starts what will become a horror franchise five years later with The Silence of the Lambs, which is one of the only horror movies to ever win Best Picture. The thing that connects all of these, of course, is Hannibal Lecter played by Brian Cox in in Manhunter, and then Anthony Hopkins for the rest of the movies.

现在飞回学校去吧，小斯塔尼。飞吧，飞吧，飞吧。

You fly back to school now, little Starnie. Fly, fly, fly.

这个系列电影配得上进入史上最佳电影的讨论吗？

Is this a franchise that feels like it belongs in the all time conversation?

我要说不配，但我强烈推荐大家看布莱恩·考克斯的那场戏——侦探去监狱拜访他的那段。

I'm gonna say no, but I would highly recommend people watch the Brian Cox scene where the, the detective comes in to visit him in in the prison.

你晒得很黑啊威尔。你的手很粗糙，看起来不像警察的手了。而且

You are very tan, Will. Your hands are rough. They don't look like cops' hands anymore. And that

人们同样会看朱迪·福斯特去拜访汉尼拔·莱克特的《沉默的羔羊》那段戏。

Men watch the same the Jodie Foster coming in to see Hannibal Lecter in Salons of Lambs.

知道你在我眼里是什么样子吗？拎着好包却穿着廉价鞋，像个暴发户，一个擦洗得干干净净、忙忙碌碌还带点品味的暴发户。

Do you know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a robe, a well scrubbed hustling robe with a little taste.

看到两位天才演员以不同方式演绎同一件事。这虽然...但我不认为这是恐怖片。它几乎太高雅了，不像是恐怖片。是的，是的。

To see two genius actors doing the same thing in different ways. It's a but I don't think of it as horror. It's almost like too classy for horror. Yeah. Yeah.

确实如此。

That's true.

你怎么看？高雅感会不会有点妨碍观感？

What do think of? Does classiness get in the way a bit?

是的。对我来说，恐怖片的魅力部分在于它的低俗感。如果作品试图表现得过于高雅，我就觉得没那么有趣了。

Yeah. For me, part of the appeal of horror is to be disreputable. And if something's trying to be too classy, I I just don't find that enjoyable.

说到低俗，我认为下一部电影就属于这类。1987年的《养鬼吃人》，讲述一个邪恶魔方——当你摆弄它时，会召唤出一群恶魔。『探索经验边缘的旅人』，有人视之为恶魔，也有人当作天使。

Speaking of disreputable, I think the next movie would fall in that category. It's nineteen eighty seven's Hellraiser, of course, about an evil puzzle box that when you manipulate it, it calls a bunch of demons. Explorers in the further regions of experience. Demons to some, angels to others. I

我觉得你说得对。我不是《养鬼吃人》的粉丝。那种华丽的美术设计在我看来有点像是派对道具店买的。不知道，就是...不是我的菜。

I I think that's right. I am not a big fan of the Hellraiser. I I think those sort of fancy production design, it all looks a little too party city for me. I don't know. It's it's just not it's not my it's not my kink.

所以，是的，我想我要...

So, yeah, I think I'm gonna You

不喜欢皮衣吗？不。你不喜欢链条？不，我不喜欢。

don't the leather? No. You don't like the chains? No. I don't

不喜欢皮衣、链条、那些飘逸的像奶牛装一样的布料、头饰和妆容。不。这看起来就像是卡巴莱歌舞加派对城再加廉价货。所以不行。

like the leather and the chains and the and the the drapey, like, moo moo stuff and the headgear and the makeup. No. It just looks like cabaret plus party city plus busted. So no.

我们不会继续搞牛仔赛车手太久。1988年的《鬼娃回魂》。

We're not gonna move cow racer long. Nineteen eighty eight's Child's Play.

嗨，我是恰吉。想玩吗？

Hi. I'm Chuckie. Wanna play?

是的，这太棒了。我要再次强调，这个系列在酷儿代表性和非二元性别方面的探索，我认为它们真正为当今酷儿恐怖片设定了基调。如果没有整个《鬼娃回魂》系列，我认为酷儿恐怖类型会缺失一些东西。

Yeah. This is so great. Again, I'm gonna gate up here. I mean, like, where this where this franchise goes in terms of queer representation, in terms of nonbinary, and I think they really set the tone for what queer horror can be today. And I I think without the the entire Child's Play franchise, I think in in queer horror would be sort of missing something.

所以对我来说，仅凭这些原因，再加上恰吉的孩子们喜欢打扮成恰吉的样子——想象一个小孩拿着塑料刀，戴着假发穿着背带裤摇摇晃晃走在街上，简直就是我的噩梦素材。

So for me, I think for those reasons alone, and because it's Chuckie's, kids love dressing up as Chuckie's. So for those reasons, like to see a little kid with a, like, plastic knife waddling down the street with that wig and the and the overalls, I mean, stuff of my nightmares.

《鬼娃回魂》在某种程度上确实是个大IP。是的。因为对我来说，一个IP不仅仅是电影，还包括那些玩偶。

Child's Play is in some ways, it feels such a franchise. Yeah. It is. Because to me, a franchise is also not just the movies. It's the dolls.

是那些海报，是那些、那些形象。说实话，我甚至不清楚恰奇到底涉足了哪些领域。但感觉他的影响力已经超越了银幕本身。

It's the posters. It's the the the appearances. This know, I I don't even know all the things that Chucky is has his hand in. But he feels it feels bigger than the than what's on the screen.

我们现在要进入九十年代了。很遗憾要告别八十年代。那是最棒的十年。《糖果人》。

We're going into the nineties now. Sorry to leave the eighties. Just the best decade. Candyman.

成为我的受害者吧。

Be my victim.

我认为原版《糖果人》确实非常出色，但我不确定后续电影是否真的能与原作相提并论。而且我不认为它是那种我们想列入这份名单的经典之作。

I think the original Candyman is really fantastic, but I'm not sure if the subsequent films really stand up to to the original so much. And I I just don't see it as something canonical that we would wanna put as part of the that we'd wanna include in part of this list.

好的，我们继续。《惊声尖叫》。

Okay. We're moving along. Scream.

你为什么不呢？

Why don't you?

要想在恐怖片中成功存活，有些规则必须遵守。比如说

There are certain rules that one must abide by in order to successfully survive a horror movie. For instance

这个排名第一。这部现代砍杀系列电影最能让人联想到恐怖片的套路。人们看恐怖片部分原因就在于，尤其是系列电影，你知道它们是可以预测的。而这个系列把所有这些元素都明明白白地展现出来，其中有种既娱乐又令人愉悦的特质。那些横跨六部电影存活下来的角色，我想观众对内芙·坎贝尔和柯特妮·考克斯都怀有深厚的感情。

This number one. This modern slasher franchise is the one that most reminds people of the tropes of a horror movie. You watch horror movies in part because particularly with franchises, you know they're predictable. And this franchise wears all of that on its sleeve, and there's something that is entertaining and enjoyable about that. The characters that have lasted across six movies now, I think people have great affection for Neb Campbell and Courtney Cox.

我并非不喜欢那些剧本。阿奎特——我记不起他的名字了。

And I don't dislike the scriptures. Arquette whose first name I cannot recall.

对，对，不，是大卫·阿奎特。那个，不。

Yeah. Yeah. No. David Arquette. The, no.

我其实认为，如果以最佳电影为标准，《惊声尖叫》应该能上榜。我觉得这个系列的质量把控并不差。只是觉得它有点基础款，算不上...我不认为...但

I I think actually and if you were to if the measure was the best movies, scream would be among I think that the quality control is not bad for Scream. I just think it's a bit basic. I think it's not I don't But the

这话听着有点针对个人了。

Taking that personally.

我认为对某些恐怖片爱好者来说，《惊声尖叫》会让我们烦躁，因为它暗示恐怖片从未有过幽默元素。听听这场对话吧——这些电影里太多情节都荒诞得可笑。如果它的招牌特色是添加了这种并不怎么好笑的幽默，那它到底是什么呢？埃里克？

I think to a certain kind of horror person, Scream gets on our nerves because there's this idea that horror never had humor. And it's listen to this conversation. So many of these movies are hilarious. If calling card, is it added this humor and it's not that funny, then what is it? Eric?

我...我不觉得它们好笑。那些挤眉弄眼的桥段太过火了。鬼脸杀手面具看起来就像在沃尔格林药店能买到的玩意儿。我...我...你根本...

I I don't find them funny. I find the wink wink stuff too much. Ghost faced, again, looks like something you'd buy at like Walgreens. I I I just You don't

可以在沃尔格林买到。

can buy it at Walgreens.

确实如此。是的。所以我不会提倡那样做。

That's true. Yeah. So I am not going to advocate for that.

哇，好吧。我预测这会引发部分听众的争议，但我们制定了一套规则并打算遵守。我惊讶《惊声尖叫》没有进展。那么二月份首映的下一部《死神来了》呢？

Wow. Okay. I predict this will be controversial with some of our listeners, but we set a set of rules and we are going to abide by them. I'm surprised Scream is not moving forward. What about the next one, Final Destination, which debuted in February?

但如果是我们的宿命呢？如果我们注定无法逃离那架飞机呢？

But what if it was our time? What if we were not meant to get off that plane?

它曾一度陷入低谷，但今年的电影《血统》确实让它重振旗鼓。

It was sort of in in the gutter for a while, and then this year's movie, Bloodlines, really sort of brought it back.

正因如此我会选择保留它。《死神来了：血统》确实是近期我看过最有趣的恐怖片之一。从开场的楼顶场景，到结尾那辆不知从哪冒出来的火车——它完美融合了恐怖与喜剧，既荒诞又精湛。单凭《血统》这部作品，我绝对会投赞成票。

And I think that's why I would save it for me. Final Destination Bloodlines was really one of the funniest horror movies I've seen in in in a while. That first scene atop that that building and and just where to the very end where there's this train that comes out of nowhere. I mean, it's it's so funny and so accomplished in the way that it marries horror and and comedy. So if I think four Bloodlines alone, I would say absolutely.

看这类电影时，我常会独自对着那些荒诞又绝妙的桥段尖叫出声。那么继续吧。下一部。天啊，这些片子...

These are the movies in which I regularly find myself, even while watching them alone, screaming out loud at something ridiculous that just happened in in like a wonderful way. So moving ahead. Next one. Oh, god. These.

电锯惊魂。我想玩个游戏。

Saw. I want to play a game.

接下来会发生什么。

Here's what happens.

我是说，这简直是系列电影中的系列电影，至少除非你把八十年代的那些也算上。所以我觉得你肯定得把电锯惊魂加进来

I mean, it's the most franchise y of franchises that at least unless you count some of those in the eighties. So I would say you gotta you have to have Saw on

这个名单。对。而且在某种程度上，它感觉像是《死神来了》的姐妹篇或表亲，所以我觉得，没错。

the list. Yeah. And and in some way, it feels like a sister or or a cousin to Final Destination, so I would say, yeah.

好的。《灵动：鬼影实录》，2007年2月。

Okay. Paranormal Activity, 02/2007.

感受它。

Feel it.

我感觉到它在对着我呼吸。

I feel it breathing on me.

我对《灵动：鬼影实录》感觉不错，对我来说，它绝对是前十的佳作。

I feel good about Paranormal Activity. I think for me, that's that's top 10 material, I think.

我同意。尤其是我们没把《女巫布莱尔》列进来，这两部总得选一部。

I agree. And especially we didn't we didn't put Blair Witch on here. We gotta have one of one of those two.

《潜伏》系列，詹姆斯·万接下来要处理的系列作品。

Insidious, the next series that James Swanson have dealt with.

我至今还能听到那个声音。

I can still hear that voice.

既然我们不能同时选《潜伏》和《招魂》，我个人倾向于《招魂》。

Just because we can't have both Insidious and The Conjuring, I would I would say we I would on the side of The Conjuring.

你这话说得太明智了，真是明智之举。哦，谢谢夸奖。

You can't the very wise. It's very wise of you. Oh, thank you.

我觉得没错。我真心希望帕特里克·威尔森能重返百老汇。抱歉跑题了。是的，我看过他在《俄克拉荷马！》里的表演，他该回来为我们唱歌。

I think that's right. And I really want Patrick Wilson to come back to Broadway. I'm sorry. Yes. I saw him in Oklahoma, and he needs to come back and sing for us.

所以你们两位是讨论这两件事的最佳人选——VHS系列。

So You guys are the perfect perfect pair to talk about both of those things. The VHS series.

嗯-嗯。什么？阿诺德。艾米丽。

Mm-mm. What? Arnold. Emily.

我...我觉得这个可以做成系列。我是选集电影的忠实粉丝，《阴阳魔界》《外部界限》那种类型。所以我认为在这里加入一个选集系列会很酷。

I I like this as a franchise. I'm I'm a big fan of the anthology film, Twilight Zone Outer Limits, that whole world. And so I think to include an anthology franchise in here, I think would be cool.

2013年的《招魂》。

Twenty thirteen's The Conjuring.

我知道她做了什么。她附身母亲去杀害孩子。她每晚都在思念凯伦。那些淤青痕迹就是证据。她在吸食她的生命力。

I know what she did. She possessed the mother to kill the child. She misses Kellen every night. That's what the bruise marks are. She's feeding off of her.

为了节省时间，我就直接说这部必须上榜。

I'm just for the sake of time gonna say this one has to be on there.

好的。没问题。

Yeah. Okay.

詹姆斯·温参与的第三部系列作品。第20部《人类清除计划》

The third series that James Wan has worked on. 20 The Purge.

包括谋杀在内的所有罪行将连续十二小时合法化

Any and all crime, including murder, will be legal for twelve continuous

我直接拒绝。好吧。我要拒绝。太好了。《寂静之地》？

I'm just gonna say no. Okay. I'm gonna say no. Great. A Quiet Place?

上一部让我觉得无聊。我...所以我选择拒绝

The last one bored me. I I would so I'd say no.

我暂时不打算看

I'm gonna say not yet.

伙计们，我太爱我们最后关头变得这么刻薄的样子了。然后是2018年的《嗜血之刃》

Guys, I love how we're getting really, really vicious here right at the end. And then twenty eighteen's Terrifier.

他觉得自己做的事很好笑，因为他一直在笑，但我知道这不好笑，因为他们全都死了

He thinks what he's doing is funny because he's laughing, but I know it's not funny because they're all dead.

给我滚远点。

Get the hell away from me.

过去多年里最出人意料的恐怖片成功案例之一。这些电影成本极低，极度暴力血腥，《恐怖火焰2》和《恐怖火焰3》在美国票房大获成功。

One of the most out of nowhere surprising horror success stories in the past many years. These are extremely low budget movies, extremely violent and gory, and Terror Fire two and Terror Fire three have made a ton of money at the American box office.

我很喜欢达米安·莱昂——这些电影的导演——出现在这个名单上的想法，因为我确实认为小丑阿特已经成为一个标志性反派，我认为他是最新一个能与弗雷迪和杰森相提并论的恐怖角色。虽然出于我们的评选标准我不会把它列入名单，但我已经迫不及待想看更多《虐杀》系列电影了。我自认承受力很强，但看这些电影时我还是会...

I I love the idea of Damian Leon, the the director of these films, being on this list because I I do think Art the Clown has become a a villain, and I think he's the the newest villain that I think you could put somewhere in the the lineage of of Freddie and Jason. I don't think it for our purposes, I I wouldn't put it on the list, but I cannot wait for more Terrifier films to come out. They I I I have a strong stomach, but for these movies, I get

看这些片子时有点反胃。

a little queasy when I watch these.

我完全同意埃里克说的。

I agree with everything Eric said.

好了，杰森、埃里克，我们刚讨论了这么多系列，但奇迹般地达成了15个共识。接下来我们要辩论史上最伟大的10个恐怖电影系列。我快速念下这15个候选：《环球怪物》系列、《活死人之夜》系列、《驱魔人》、《德州电锯杀人狂》、《月光光心慌慌》、《异形》、《十三号星期五》、《鬼玩人》系列、《猛鬼街》、《鬼娃回魂》、《死神来了》、《电锯惊魂》、《灵动：鬼影实录》、《致命录像带》以及《招魂》系列——这个名单可能有点另类，但请各位整理下思路。

Alright. So Jason, Eric, we just went through so many franchises, but somehow we've narrowed it down to 15 that we've agreed. We're going to move forward to the debate that we're about to have about what the 10 greatest horror movie franchises of all time are. And I'm going to read those 15 very quickly. The Universal Monsters franchise, the Night of the Living Dead series, The Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, Alien, Friday the thirteenth, the Evil Dead series, Nightmare on Elm Street, Child's Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, VHS, and The Conjuring films is a slightly perverse list, but gather your thoughts.

我们先休息一下。回来后，我们三人将选出毫无争议的史上十大恐怖电影系列终极名单。

We are gonna take a break. And when we come back, the three of us are gonna pick our definitive list that no one will argue with of top 10 horror movie franchises.

你好，我是Ashley。我和男友住在旧金山。我们希望能正式共享我的《纽约时报》订阅账号，但要有独立登录。我们都热爱烹饪，喜欢待在厨房，但我属于30分钟搞定高效晚餐的类型。

Hi. This is Ashley. I live in San Francisco with my boyfriend. We would love to officially share my New York Times subscription with separate logins. We both love cooking, love being in the kitchen, but I'm a thirty minute and under efficient dinner girly.

我想要简单的一锅端料理，他却喜欢复杂精细的烹饪方式，还热衷于美食叙事。我希望能保存自己的简易食谱并标记已完成，觉得让他拥有独立账户会很棒。

I want a sheet pan meal. He is very elaborate. He wants to get into the storytelling. I wanna be able to save my easy meals and check off the ones that I've completed, and I think him having his own profile would be great.

Ashley，我们听到了你的需求。现在推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅服务：你拥有专属账号，精致先生也有他的，还能再添加两人。详情请访问nytimes.com/family。

Ashley, we heard you. Introducing the New York Times family subscription. You get your own login, and mister elaborate gets his, plus room for two others. Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

Jason和Eric，我们刚梳理了所有重要的恐怖电影系列——至少根据我、你们俩和节目制作人的标准。我们已将其精简到15部，接下来要继续删减，最终得出干净完美的史上十大最佳恐怖电影系列榜单（按我们的标准）。如何筛选？我们将轮流发言，每人必须力荐一个必须入选的系列，同时投票决定该剔除哪部。请给出令人信服的理由。

Jason and Eric, we've just gone through every single important horror movie franchise, at least according to me and the two of you and the producers of the show. And we've narrowed it down to a slim list of 15, and we're going to make some cuts so that at the end of this, we have a nice, clean, perfect, respectable list of the 10 best horror movie franchises ever, parentheses according to us. How are we going to pair this down? We are going to go around the room and each of us is going to stump for one franchise that they believe absolutely needs to be on here, and you're also going to have your vote for what you think should be removed. You should make a convincing argument.

Jason，从你开始。

Jason, we'll start with you.

我认为《十三号星期五》必须入选。被砍。

So one I think needs to be on is Friday the thirteenth. Killed.

那些辅导员根本没注意，他们在亲热时那个叫Jason的小男孩淹死了。

The counselors weren't paying any attention. They were making love while that young boy drowned. His name was Jason.

说到电影系列，我认为《十三号星期五》具备所有特质，它有个经典反派恰好和我同名，所以我有点偏心。

What I think franchises, I think, Friday the thirteenth, it has all the qualities, it has the classic villain who happens to share my name. So I'm a little biased.

好的。还有

Okay. And

另外，我喜欢那些荒诞不羁、场景多变的系列。杰森去过太空，下过地狱，还和弗莱迪交过手。

also, I like franchises that are silly and to and go to a lot of crazy places. Jason went to space. Jason went to hell. Jason did met Freddie.

他还去过曼哈顿。

He went to Manhattan.

没错，他连曼哈顿都去过。所以我认为在正经讨论电影系列时，《十三号星期五》必须上榜，我投它一票。

He went to Manhattan. Whole nine of all places. So I think you can't have a list of franchises being takes taken seriously and not have Friday the thirteenth. So I would I would vote for that one.

好的。那你想现在说说该淘汰哪个系列吗？

Okay. And do you wanna say now which one you think should go?

嗯...我要选《驱魔人》。抱歉吉尔伯特，这是部好电影，但不是个好系列。

Yeah. I'm I'll say I'll I'll I'll say The Exorcist. Sorry, Gilbert. It's a great movie. It's not a great franchise.

知道吗？我是个和事佬。咱们把《驱魔人》淘汰掉吧。好，能搞定这家伙。

You know what? I'm a peacemaker. Let's get rid of The Exorcist. Alright. Can do this guy.

我们能行的。

We can do this.

气氛有点紧张啊。这里有点紧张了。稍微

A little tense here. Got a little tense in here. A little

有点。埃里克。

bit. Eric.

是的。我认为需要保留《鬼娃回魂》。我觉得这个反派既搞笑又瘆人。整个系列电影有一条贯穿线，而且确实触及了一些酷儿元素，我个人很喜欢。

Yes. I would say we need to keep child's play. I think you have a villain that is hilarious and also creepy. I think there's a through line through the films. I think it does touch on some queer aspects, which I personally like.

所以基于这些原因，不，我觉得它应该留下。

And so I think for those reasons No. I think it needs to stay.

如果你识相的话，你就

And if you know what's good for you, you

将会去爱、尊重并服从。

are going to love, honor, and obey.

就算你有特种部队的身材我也不会嫁给你

I wouldn't marry you if you had

GI Joe的身材。嘿，破布娃娃。你最近照过镜子吗？现在可不是挑剔的时候。我

the body of GI Joe. Hey, Raggedy Ann. You looked in the mirror lately. Now's not the time to get picky. I

我为此担保过，或者说我提倡过这个，但我其实会把VHS录像带撤下。我喜欢选集剧，但我觉得这个或许可以去掉。另外，这里至少还要有另一个伪纪录片系列，所以我会拿掉VHS。

I vouched for this, or I I advocated for this, but I would actually take off the VHS films. I love an anthology series, but I think maybe that is one that could go. Also, have at least one other found footage franchise here, so I would take VHS off.

杰森。同意。好的。我们把它去掉吧。大家意见很一致嘛。

Jason. Agree. Okay. Let's take it off. So much agreement here.

我要为《猛鬼街》发声。

I am going to advocate for A Nightmare on Elm Street.

怎么了乔？舌头打结了吗？

What's wrong, Joe? Feeling tongue tied?

第一部电影，我认为是经典恐怖片中最出色的砍杀电影之一。当我们想到这些角色时，比如《十三号星期五》里的杰森·沃赫斯、《月光光心慌慌》里的迈克尔·迈尔斯，甚至《德州电锯杀人狂》里的皮脸。弗雷迪·克鲁格是唯一有鲜明个性的角色，他是唯一带着点俏皮话和活力的，这点很重要。

The first movie, one of my all time favorite horror movies, I think, of the major slashers. As we think about them, Jason Voorhees from the Friday the thirteenth movies, Michael Myers from the Halloween movies, maybe even Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. Freddy Krueger is the only one with personality. He is the only one that has a little a little verb, a little pop, and that's important, I think

是的。

Yes.

如果要塑造一个能支撑多部系列电影的角色。你说得对，杰森后来变得滑稽了，成了喜剧角色。我认为喜剧和恐怖可以完美共存，我知道你也同意这点。

If you are going to be a character that holds a franchise over multiple movies. You were right, Jason. He gets silly. He becomes a comedic character. I think that comedy and horror coexist very easily, and I know you agree.

噢，我是说，我同意喜剧和恐怖是一体两面。悬疑场景的结构——先营造紧张感再引发尖叫——与笑话的结构如出一辙，都是先铺垫再引爆笑点。《猛鬼街》就把两者结合得很好。而且它的视觉风格对于一部热门商业大片来说相当超现实。是的，我完全赞同。

Oh, I mean, I agree that comedy and horror are two sides of the same coin. The structure of a suspense sequence that builds tension and leads to a a scream is analogous to the structure of a joke which builds tension and then leads to a laugh. And I think you see that in A Nightmare on Elm Street, it melds them very well. And then I think you also just have the visual palette is for for a big, you know, hot blockbuster franchise, it's quite, like, surreal. And and I, yeah, I agree.

你关于角色个性的观点很到位，这是之前没人提到的。

I think your point about personality is is is a good one that that you didn't see that before.

我也觉得这些电影有特别之处。你用'超现实'这个词很准确，尤其是第一部。整部电影大部分遵循梦境逻辑，这使它与其他砍杀片截然不同——那些片子除了超自然元素外都发生在现实世界，只是用各种花式手法杀人罢了。

I also think there's something about these movies. You use the right word surreal, particularly in the first movie. The the fact that you were operating with dream logic for much of these movies just gives it a different flavor than all of these other ones, which ostensibly, other than the supernatural ones, exist in the real world, and you just have a bunch of people getting murdered in, you know, very ornate ways.

不。这意味着你能实现常规电影做不到的视觉呈现。比如墙壁里伸出的手臂。很多恐怖片的电影语言都源自《猛鬼街》，而它又继承了波兰斯基的风格，那种画面质感即使静音观看也很震撼。嗯。

No. It means you can do things visually you can't otherwise. I mean, I think you see, like, the the arms to the walls. A lot of the vocabulary cinematic vocabulary of horror comes from Nightmare, which comes from Polansky, which has all the the look, you can watch it with a sound out, and it's great. Mhmm.

所以我认为它的影响力也非常巨大。

So I think it's tremendously influential too.

好的。因此我绝对认为应该保留这部，而我会移除《电锯惊魂》。我最近重看了第一部，虽然还行，但我觉得这个系列拍了十多部，其中的套路已经超出了我愿意体验的范围。我不认为它们对原始创意进行了特别有趣的迭代。相比之下，《死神来了》系列在这方面做得更好，尽管两者截然不同。

Okay. So that is the one that I absolutely think should stay on, and I would remove Saw. I recently rewatched the first one, which is fine, but I think the conceits of these films over 10 movies is is just a bit more than I care to experience. I don't think they iterates on the original idea in particularly interesting ways. I think the Final Destination franchise does this better, although they're two very different things.

我建议剔除《电锯惊魂》。

I say Takeout Saw.

我没意见。

I'm fine with that.

杰森正在抿嘴唇。

Jason is rubbing his lips.

感觉不太对劲。

It feels wrong.

是啊，怎么了？

Yeah. Why?

好吧，因为我们不是在讨论恐怖电影，而是在讨论恐怖电影系列。嗯哼。正如你之前指出的，你可以像期待《月光光心慌慌》一样期待《电锯惊魂》。当《电锯惊魂》系列存在时，它的影响力与那些经典作品不相上下。

Well, because we're not here talking about horror movies. We're here talking about horror movie franchises. Uh-huh. And as you pointed out before, year, you could expect a Saw movie like you could expect Halloween. What while it's around the Saw movie was as significant as the Saw movies.

所以你是对的。这里存在一种连贯性。在这个播客中我多次提到我多么欣赏那些反其道而行的电影。对吧？但老实说，这些恐怖系列电影能一部接一部拍下去的原因，就是给观众更多相同的东西。

So you're right. There is a consistency. A lot of this podcast I've been going on about how much I admire movies that zag. Right? But if we're honest, the reason that most of these horror franchises, you know, have sequel after sequel is to give people more of the same.

没错。而《电锯惊魂》系列在这方面做得比八十年代后的任何经典砍杀电影都更有效。

Yeah. And the Saw movies did that more effectively than anything past the eighties classic slasher movies.

你知道吗，杰森，你说得对。我们把《电锯惊魂》加回来吧。

You know what, Jason, you're right. Let's add Saw back on.

我最喜欢的三个字。

My favorite my favorite three words.

那我们就去掉《异形》了。哦。

And we are gonna take alien off. Oh.

我没意见。

I'm fine with that.

我没事？我对此没意见。

I Okay? I'm fine with that.

你想吵架？这就是后果。

You wanna argue? This is what happens.

外星人走了。而且我觉得外星人更偏向科幻题材。如果我们要抠定义的话，对我来说，它更像是外星生物类型的电影。所以在我看来，确实有恐怖元素存在。没错。

Alien's gone. Also, I think Alien is more science fiction. And if we're gonna be sticklers about definitions, to me, it's a little more of the alien creature type movie. And so to me, yes, there are horror elements. Yes.

两者有交叉之处。但对我来说，它可能是前十的科幻系列。

There are crossovers of the two. But to me, that's the maybe top 10 science fiction franchise.

是啊。大家都说原版《异形》是太空版的鬼屋故事。没错。但它毕竟还是在太空。

Yeah. Everyone says the original Alien is a haunted house story in space. Sure. But it's it's still in space.

它依然

It's still

在太空。好吧。那我们回到你这边，埃里克。是的。你需要提出一个必须保留的系列和一个应该淘汰的系列。

in space. Okay. So we're gonna go back to you, Eric. Yes. And you are gonna suggest one franchise that absolutely needs to stay on and one that should fall off.

我将主张将超自然现象保留在清单上。

I'm going to advocate for paranormal activity to stay on the list.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

我挠一下痒。

Scratch myself for a second.

你你听听听到了吗？那个？

Did Did you you hear hear that? That?

嗯，没关系。

Yeah. It's okay.

把门挡住。没事的。不要紧。抱歉。没关系。

Hold the door. It's okay. It's alright. Sorry. It's okay.

它

It

这是一部伪纪录片形式的电影。第一部真的非常出色。我也很喜欢它突然爆红成为大热门，并催生了续集电影。现在还有舞台剧版本，

is a found footage film. It is a the first one is really, really good. I also love that it came out of nowhere to become this really big hit and has spawned subsequent films. And now a stage show, which is

真的吗？

Is that true?

目前正在芝加哥莎士比亚剧院上演，之后会来华盛顿特区。我还没看过，所以不知道好不好，但他们成功把这个伪纪录片故事搬上舞台——我都不知道这怎么做到的，不过非常好奇想看看。剧院话题不断出现啊Jason，不知道怎么回事，但任何有演出的东西...嗯。

It's at the Chicago Shakespeare Theater right now. It's coming to DC later on. They have I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's good or not, but they have managed to transfer this found footage story, which I don't know how you do that on stage, but I'm very curious to see that. Theater keeps coming up, Jason. Don't know what's going on here, but like anything that has a show Yeah.

与之相关的，我就想说：要不...咱们把这个留在清单上吧。我想

Attached to it, I sort of say, you know what? Let's let's keep that on on the list. I guess

这些电影至少在我心中普及了'角色被画外存在拖走'的桥段。每次想到这种场景...嗯，我脑海里浮现的就是这些电影。

these are and these are the films that popularized, in my mind at least, someone getting dragged off by an an off screen presence. Whenever I think about that happening Yeah. These are the movies I think about.

没错。同意。不过我有点纠结，因为我喜欢环球怪物系列，但几乎要怀疑那算不算真正的电影宇宙。我以前经常熬夜

Yeah. Agreed. I I guess I'm I'm struggling with this because I love the Universal Monsters, but I almost wonder if that's not quite franchise. My I used to stay up at

这是年龄歧视。

This is ageism.

我正要说到，我以前常和祖母熬夜看晚上11点半的深夜电影，她特别喜欢环球怪物系列。那时候是43频道，他们还会放电影。

It it it I was just about to say, I used to stay up for the 11:30PM late night movie with my grandmother who loved the Universal Monsters. Channel forty three back when they showed movies.

这是在哪儿？

Where was this?

这是在俄亥俄州的克利夫兰。克利夫兰。

This was in Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland.

好的，明白了。

Right. Got

我有着和祖母一起看这些电影的温暖回忆，所以把它去掉让我很痛苦。但我不确定它是否算一个系列。我理解它的精神，这些都是很棒的电影。

it. And I I I have such warm memories of being with my grandmother and watching these films, so it pains me to take that off. But I'm not sure if it's a it's a franchise. I get the spirit of it. They're great movies.