21世纪百佳电影

这里是《纽约时报》的娜塔莉·基特罗夫，为您带来《每日播报》。今年夏天，《纽约时报》发布了21世纪百大电影榜单，引发了关于哪些电影经得起时间考验的激烈争论。

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroef. This is The Daily. This summer, The New York Times put out a list of the top 100 movies of the twenty first century. It prompted furious debate about what movies stand the test of time. You

你休想通过。

shall not pass.

这些电影为何重要，以及它们揭示了关于我们的什么。

Why they matter and what those movies tell us about ourselves.

他逗你笑了吗？

Does he make you laugh?

他没让我哭。

He doesn't make me cry.

我的同事凯尔·布坎南将为我们解析。

My colleague, Kyle Buchanan, explains.

难道你们不觉得精彩吗？难道不觉得精彩吗？

Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?

今天是8月14日星期四。凯尔，欢迎来到节目。在这个新闻如消防水枪般每天扑面而来的时刻，能和你聊聊电影真是太好了。感谢你的到来。

It's Thursday, August 14. Kyle, welcome to the show. It is really wonderful to be talking to you about movies at this time when the news has just been coming at us like a fire hose every single day. Thank you for this.

我很乐意提供这样的调剂。

I'm happy to provide that relief.

你报道这个行业有多少年了？二十年左右吧？

You've been covering this industry for what? Two decades or something like that?

是的。我从小就是神童起步，如果你是想问这个的话。

Yes. I started as a child prodigy, if that's what you're getting at.

没错。25岁的你此刻正在《每日秀》与我们对话。这个夏天你和文化版的同事们完成了一项宏大计划——评选出了二十一世纪百大电影。

Exactly. Yeah. Here you are, 25 years old, talking to us here at The Daily. Okay. We are here to discuss something really ambitious that you and your colleagues at the Culture Desk did this summer, which is that you ranked the top 100 movies of the twenty first century.

这个榜单发布的时机很有意思。有人会说现在不是电影艺术或产业最好的时代，但你们的榜单却引发了轰动。数百万读者参与讨论，

And this is coming at a pretty interesting time for the movies. Some might say it's not the best moment for the movies, for the craft, for the business. And yet you put out this list, and people kind of lost their minds. Millions of people read it. It was commented upon.

相关 TikTok 视频层出不穷，我们还另外整理了读者票选榜单。重点在于它确实形成了现象级话题。

There were TikTok videos made about it. There was a separate reader list that we will get to. It was a thing is the point.

这是场盛事。作为影迷，看到人们如此热烈的反响实在令人振奋。正如你所说，最近确实存在关于电影艺术价值的争论——电影是否已失去文化影响力？它们曾经是艺术领域的绝对主角。

It was a massive thing. And honestly, very encouraging for me as somebody who loves movies to see just how strongly people responded to this. You know, as you said, I think there's been some debate recently over, you know, the art form of movies. Have movies lost their cultural influence? They used to feel so primary when it came to art.

而这次评选引发的反响恰恰反驳了这种论调，证明电影依然举足轻重。

And I think this poll, this this reaction to it is kind of a refutation of that. It proves movies still matter.

我认为这个榜单的特殊性在于其制作方式：你们直接采访电影从业者收集心仪之作。《每日秀》联系其中几位时，还收获了精彩对谈。首先，我该称呼你史蒂夫吗？你...

And I think one of the things that made this list really special is how you actually constructed it. You called these filmmakers, actors, writers, directors, and asked them to tell you what their favorites were. And The Daily actually called some of them and had some pretty amazing conversations about it. So first of all, should I call you Steve? I You're

请叫我史蒂夫。只要别耽误我吃晚饭就行。我是斯蒂芬·金。

You should call me Steve. Just don't call me late to dinner. But my name is Stephen King.

我是巴里·詹金斯。

My name is Barry Jenkins.

我是辛格·宋。

My name is Singh Song.

我是莫利·林沃德。

I'm Molly Ringwald.

我是吉娜·普林斯-拜斯伍德。

I'm Gina Prince Bythewood.

我是本尼·萨夫迪。我拍电影，

I'm Benny Safdie. I make movies,

也参演电影。编剧、导演、制片人。我还是一名演员。

and I act in movies. Writer, director, producer. I'm an actor.

编剧、导演。

Writer, director.

我很幸运能够创作出多部被改编成电影的书籍和故事。

And I've been fortunate enough to be able to write a number of books and stories that have been made into movies.

好的。你们是如何收集所有这些选票的？

Okay. How'd you collect all of these ballots?

基本上，我们联系了大约500名电影行业及其周边的工作人员，请他们提交自2000年1月1日以来他们认为的10部最佳电影选票。我们特意挑选了一群背景各异的人士。其中包括上届最佳影片奖的导演和主演——拍摄《恩诺拉》的肖恩·贝克和主演米奇·麦迪逊。还有其他电影明星，如朱丽安·摩尔、蒂尔达·斯文顿、切瓦特·埃加福特，以及一众奥斯卡获奖导演，如佩德罗·阿莫多瓦、索菲亚·科波拉、吉尔莫·德尔·托罗、科德·杰斐逊。这份名单令人非常兴奋。

Basically, we went to about 500 people who work in the movie industry and around it, and we asked them to submit their ballots for what they thought were the 10 best movies released since 01/01/2000. And we really went after an eclectic group of people. We have the director and the star of the last best picture winner, that'd be Sean Baker who made Enora, and Mikey Madison who starred in it. We have other movie stars, Julianne Moore, Tilda Swinton, Chiwetel Ejiofor, and an incredible array of Oscar winning directors like Pedro Medovar, Sofia Coppola, Guillermo del Toro, Cord Jefferson. It's a really exciting list.

当这些选票陆续寄来时，我迫不及待想看看他们选了哪些影片。

And as those ballots came in, I couldn't wait to see what they picked.

要选出10部最佳或10部最爱的任何东西，这根本是不可能的任务。

The idea of a 10 best or 10 favorite anything, it's impossible.

任何让我想选择它只是因为会让我看起来很酷的东西，我都不会选。

Anything that makes me wanna choose it because it's gonna make me look cool, I won't choose.

说实话，我同意做这个播客的唯一原因就是为了能再往我的片单里加两部电影。

I'll be honest. The only reason why I I agreed to do this podcast is so I could get two more films onto my list.

你知道，人心里总有一部分会想选那些没人选的片子，但我没那么做。我确实选了自己真心觉得最好的作品。

You know, there's a part of you that just, like, wants to, like, pick the ones that nobody else picks, but but I didn't do that. I actually picked the ones that I I thought were really the best.

最让我兴奋的是看到大家对选题的多元解读。'我最爱的10部电影'这个概念，可以是10部最佳、10部最严肃或10部最好笑的——这完全取决于个人理解。

And really the most exciting thing for me has been to see how many different people interpret that prompt. The idea of what are my 10 favorite movies, or are they 10 best, or are they 10 most serious, or 10 funniest, You know, that can be anything to you.

我先说《月光男孩》。月光下男孩们泛着蓝调，记得影片结束时我整个人静止不动，连呼吸都屏住了。

I'll start with moonlight. In moonlight, like boys look blue. I just remember being so still at the end of it. I didn't wanna move.

人生总有些时刻，你得自己决定何时迈步向前。

At some point, you gotta decide for yourself when you move.

知道吗？我们本可以共度美好人生，但你不愿意，恩尼斯。所以现在我们只剩下《断背山》了。

Tell you what, we coulda had a good life together, but you didn't want it, Ennis. So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain.

《断背山》是部让我在电影院里震撼到失语的杰作。

Brokeback Mountain, I think, was one that I remember just being floored by in, you know, in the movie theater.

我真希望知道该怎么戒掉你。是啊。

I wish I knew how to quit you. Yeah.

这是迪恩。

This is Dean.

嘿。是我

Hey. It's

，洛杉矶来的这家伙，非常热切。

me. This guy from LA, very eager.

《爱在名单上》是我列出的电影。它只是——它是我最喜欢的保罗·托马斯·安德森的电影。

Called Love is on my list. It's just it's my favorite movie by Paul Thomas Anderson.

您好，先生。我叫巴里·伊根。前几天我打过您的服务电话

Hello, sir. My name is Barry Egan. I called your service the

。闭嘴。

other day. Shut the fuck up.

哦，那是什么？

Oh, what's that?

我不是说这是他最好的电影或其他什么。我不在乎那个。你知道吗？这是我最喜欢的电影。所以你们让500个人对他们感动的电影给出了非常个人化的看法，这真的是总结这份名单意义的最佳方式。

I'm not saying it's his best movie or whatever. I don't care about that. You know? It's it's my favorite movie. So you guys got 500 people to give a very personal take on the movies that move them, and that's really the the best way to sum up what this list means.

如果我在换台时看到这些电影中的一部，我会尽力留下来看完它。

If I'm channel surfing and one of these movies comes on, I will do my best to stay and watch it.

归根结底，是一种发自内心的驱动力让我选出了这十部真正对我有意义并改变了我生活的电影。

I was really, at the end of the day, a guttural drive that that got me to that 10 of films that really meant something to me and changed my life.

在整理这份选票时，你其实是在讲述自己的故事。明白吗？选票反映了你的某种感性。甚至不止如此，你在无意识中讲述着自己过去二十五年的故事。懂吗？

And in putting this ballot together, you're telling a story about yourself. You know? The ballot is indicating something about your sensibility. Even more than that, unconsciously, you're telling the story of your last twenty five years. You know?

你所经历的这二十五年，你看过的电影，那些真正触动你的东西——可能二十三年前看过却至今萦绕心头的片段。这些都揭示了你的一部分。我认为这次投票最引人入胜之处在于，这些选票不仅展现了电影产业的现状，更能映照出我们自身的特质。

The twenty five years that you've experienced, the movies that you've watched, the things that really stick to you that you maybe you saw twenty three years ago but you can't stop thinking about them. That says something about you. And I think what's really been gripping about this is that these ballots, even more than just revealing something about the state of the movie industry, can reveal something about ourselves.

你对这个领域了如指掌。分析这份榜单时，你发现了什么？现在你已经有时间深入研究它了。

You know this world very, very well. What did you see when you looked at this list? Now you've had time to analyze it.

有些电影出人意料地入选或排名如此靠前，而我认为必然能进前100的作品却完全落选。除此之外，许多揭示性主题也自成篇章，诉说着过去二十五年电影产业的变迁轨迹。

There's movies that you wouldn't have expected to make the list or make it as highly as they did. And then there's things that I thought were no brainers that were absolutely going to make the 100 that were left off totally. And also, in addition to that, a lot of revealing themes that tell their own story of where the film industry has gone over the last twenty five years.

我们显然无法逐一讨论前100名的每部作品，但我非常期待展开探讨。不如从某个意想不到的类别开始说起？

We're obviously not gonna be able to go through every single one of the top 100, but I am very excited to get into this. Let's start by talking about a category that you wouldn't have expected to be on there.

说实话，我没想到喜剧类会占据这么多席位，这个发现让我欣喜不已。比如《伴娘》这样的作品。

Honestly, I didn't think we'd see as many comedies as we saw, and I was delighted that we saw them. There are movies like Bridesmaids.

知道吗？你就不能像正常人那样先假装为我高兴，回家再背后议论我吗？

You know what? Why can't you just be happy for me and then go home and talk behind my back later like a normal person?

波拉特。哈萨克斯坦的荣耀。

Borat. Visovigansi over Kazakhstan.

《最佳展览会》。

Best in show.

我们共同点太多了。我们都爱喝汤。

We both have so much in common. We both love soup.

甚至还有《王牌播音员》。

Even Anchorman.

我在勃艮第？

I'm on Burgundy?

该死的。谁在提词器上打了个问号

Damn it. Who typed a question mark on

？最后一次提醒，提词器上出现的任何内容，勃艮第都会照读不误。

the teleprompter? For the last time, anything you put on that prompter, Burgundy will read.

而且我不确定我们是否该对此感到意外，因为当你给人们这样的提示时，可能默认他们会选择 prestige 电影，那些奥斯卡推崇的经典大片。喜剧在奥斯卡往往不受重视，但很高兴看到我们的榜单上它们表现不错。就连朱丽安·摩尔这样的演员——我们总认为她会出演严肃剧情片——也在选票上填了《四十岁的老处男》这样的电影。

And I don't know that necessarily we would have expected those because when you give people a prompt like this, maybe the assumption is they default to prestige movies, you know, big Oscar venerated classics. Comedies at the Oscars often get short shrift, and I was pleased to see that on our list, they were well represented. You know, even somebody like Julianne Moore, who we think of as the actress who would star in the prestige drama, is picking movies like The 40 Year Old Virgin on her ballot.

不。是凯莉·克莱森。嗯。啊。

No. Kelly Clarkson. Mhmm. Ah.

没错。我看到了。太棒了。

Right. I saw that. Amazing.

我特别喜欢这点。如果我们诚实地面对自己真正共鸣的艺术，就会发现每个人都有自己的独特偏好。我很感激大家能坦诚表达这些选择。

I loved that. I loved the idiosyncrasies that we all have if we're being honest about what art we respond to. And I really appreciated that people were honest about those things.

我想聊聊《超级坏》。它在榜单上排第100名，是打开列表第一个看到的。我觉得它很重要，因为你会忍不住感叹：哇，真没想到这部电影能入选21世纪百佳。

I wanna talk about super bad. It's number a 100 on the list. It's the first one you see when you open the list up. And I think that one is kind of important because it's the one where you say, like, wow. I guess I'm surprised to see that this movie is in the top 100 of the twenty first century.

但这部电影的很多具体场景我都记忆犹新，真的很有共鸣。你对它的上榜怎么看？

And yet, it's a movie where I can remember specific scenes from it. I I really connected with it. What do you make of that one being on here?

我也很意外，但这就是榜单的趣味所在。人们评选最佳电影时，有时会选择那些只看过一次的影片。有些电影太震撼，你根本不想看第二遍。所以你以为打开榜单会看到这类作品，结果第100名是《超级坏》。

I mean, I was surprised too, but I think it's part of the fun of the list. You know, when people are thinking of best movies, sometimes they're thinking of movies they've only watched once. Sometimes those movies are so harrowing, you'd only want to watch them once. Right. And so you'd expect to be encountering that when you open up this list and instead number 100 is super bad.

等等，你把名字改成了

Wait. You you changed your name to

麦克拉文？麦克拉文？

McLovin? McLovin?

沃格特，这算哪门子蠢名字？你是想当爱尔兰R&B歌手吗？

What kind of a stupid name is that, Vogtle? What are you trying to be an Irish R and B singer?

说实话，这部电影一旦出现在榜单上，或许能重新定义你对它的认知。但归根结底，这是部被影迷反复观看的作品，也确实捧红了新一代明星。

That is a film that honestly, I think once you see it on this list, it maybe hopefully recontextualizes how you think of this film. But ultimately, you know, this is a movie that the fans of it have watched countless times and honestly minted a whole new generation of stars.

嘿，朱尔斯，你搭档今天没来？

Hey, Jules. Your partner didn't come today?

这问题有点私人吧？什么？没事，我就是想幽默一下。我刚...

It's kind of a personal question. What? Nothing. It's my attempt to humor. I was just

包括乔纳·希尔、迈克尔·塞拉和艾玛·斯通——这片子让她一飞冲天。可以说这是定义一代人的青春片，和《贱女孩》齐名，可惜后者没上榜。

Including Jonah Hill, Michael Cera, and Emma Stone who this is a movie that's turbocharged her. That was one of the defining teen movies of its generation, I would say alongside Mean Girls, which I wish had made the list.

我知道，重大遗漏。好吧，你还发现什么规律了？

I know. Huge snub. Okay. So what other patterns did you notice here?

我在榜单里看到很多作者导演。老实说，有几位导演的作品占比大得惊人，几乎占了百强的四分之一。

I saw a lot of auteur filmmakers through this list, you know. Honestly, there's a handful of people who made movies on this list that take up a a really outsized portion, almost a quarter of the 100.

好吧，那给可能不太了解这个词的观众解释下什么是作者导演。

Well, okay. So just to find auteur filmmakers for those of us who may not know exactly what it means.

是的。作者电影导演通常身兼编剧和导演双重身份。这类创作者拥有极其个人化的视角或独特风格，可以说他们就是电影的作者。

Yeah. An auteur filmmaker is typically a writer director. It's somebody who has such a personal vision or a distinctive style that, you know, you could essentially call them the author of the movie.

能举些具体例子吗？我理解你说榜单上很多作品都出自这类导演之手，但请列举几部符合这个标准的电影。

And what are some movies I understand you're saying a lot of the ones on the list are made by people like that, but give me some examples of movies that fit that bill.

比如这份榜单上有四部科恩兄弟（乔尔和伊桑·科恩）的作品。他们拍过《老无所依》、《逃狱三王》、《醉乡民谣》和《严肃的男人》。这些电影有着标志性的拍摄手法，常用固定班底的演员，台词也充满他们特有的语言风格。

Well, for example, there's four movies on this list that are made by the Coen brothers, Joel and Ethan Coen. You know, they've made No Country for Old Men, O Brother Where Art Thou, Inside Lou and Davis, A Serious Man. They have these films that they're shot a certain way. They tend to have a similar bench of actors. And also, there's just all these language idiosyncrasies that you find in their movies.

即便他们尝试不同类型片时，你仍能发现反复出现的主题和思想。我认为这正是真正作者导演的印记。

Even when they're playing with genre, you're seeing, you know, different themes and ideas keep cropping up. I think that's the mark of a true auteur.

没错。看科恩兄弟的电影时你立刻就能认出来，对吧？

Right. You you know when you're watching a Coen Brothers film. Right?

对。就像你一眼能认出大卫·林奇的作品，或是克里斯托弗·诺兰的——他以五部作品成为本榜单入围最多的导演。

Yes. Just as you know when you're watching something by David Lynch or even Christopher Nolan who has the most movies on this list with five.

你怎么看诺兰在榜单上的强势表现？

And what do you make of that? The fact that Nolan is so present on this list.

这充分说明，若要说谁能被视为本世纪的斯皮尔伯格，那必定是克里斯·诺兰。他既能拍出《黑暗骑士》《盗梦空间》这样的商业大片，又赋予作品深刻内涵，同时赢得观众广泛共鸣。

Yeah. You know, it's a true sign that if anybody could be regarded as the Spielberg of this century, it's Chris Nolan who manages to make studio movies like The Dark Knight and Inception that feel highbrow, that feel like there's something to them, and that connect in a major way with audiences.

我立刻注意到《穆赫兰道》排在第二位。作为大卫·林奇这位作者导演的作品，虽然要坦白说这不是我的最爱，但看到这部怪诞电影能高居榜单，我既惊讶又欣喜。

One movie I immediately noticed was Mulholland Drive. It's number two on the list. David Lynch film, an auteur filmmaker. I wanna talk about that one because while this movie is not my favorite, just to admit that, I was so amazed and really happy that it was so high on this list in part because I felt like, wow. This is a weird film.

没想到如此梦幻奇特的艺术作品竟能引发这么多人的共鸣，有这么多观众喜爱它。

And yet it connected with so many people. Like, so many people out there loved this kind of really strange dreamlike piece of art.

要知道，这不是一部适合所有人的电影，但我可以保证每个人对这部电影都会有自己独特的反应。我认为可以说《穆赫兰道》太过阳春白雪了。如果人们无法与之产生共鸣，这大概就是他们会抛出的贬义词。

You know, it's not a movie that's for everybody, but I can guarantee you that everybody will have their own unique reaction to that movie. I think that you could make the case that Mulholland Drive is too high brow. You know, if people didn't connect with it, that's probably the pejorative that they would fling.

我我想我会明白的。

I I think I'm gonna get that.

我已经我是说，

I'm already I mean,

我的编辑们说我没看懂是因为品味低俗。所以我同意。

my editors are telling me that I am low brow for not getting it. So I agree.

我们都有权偶尔低俗一下。老实说，即使你不喜欢《穆赫兰道》，其中总有些画面、氛围、场景或理念会永远萦绕在你心头。是的。懂吗？这不是一部容易被遗忘的电影。

We're all allowed to be a little low brow. And honestly, at the same time, even if you don't like Mulholland Drive, there's going to be images, vibes, scenes, and ideas from it that stick with you forever. Yeah. You know? It's not a movie that can be easily forgotten.

我认为这正是

I think that's part of

它

the

能上榜的原因之一。就连讨厌它的人也不禁被这部电影所呈现的内容所震慑，而那些真正热爱它的人，你知道，对他们而言这就是一切。

reason it showed up on this list. Even its haters were somewhat transfixed by what that movie was putting forward and the people who really love it, you know, it's everything to them.

这地方后面有个男人。就是他干的。我能透过墙看见他。我能看见他的脸。

There's a man in back of this place. He's the one who's doing it. I can see him through the wall. I can see his face.

我是埃文·莫斯·巴卡拉克，一名演员。我参演了新版《神奇四侠》，在《熊家餐馆》工作过，曾参与《都市女孩》的拍摄，目前正在制作《复仇者联盟5：末日决战》。

My name is Evan Moss Bacharach. I'm an actor. I am in the new Fantastic Four movie. I work on The Bear. I've worked on Girls, and I'm currently making Avengers five Doomsday.

我希望永远只在梦里见到那张脸。

I hope that I never see that face ever outside of a dream.

《穆赫兰道》位列第二。我无法形容。这位伟大的艺术家大卫·林奇，他对世界、黑暗以及那种迷人梦境逻辑的独特诠释，让如此多人被这部电影打动并投票给它。我是说，排名第二，大卫他...我觉得他可能会很震惊。

Mulholland Drive, number two on the list. I can't tell you. This great artist, David Lynch, and his unique renderings of the world and and darkness and this sort of beguiling dream logic that so many people felt moved by this movie to vote for it. I mean, like, number two, David I mean, I feel like he might he would be shocked.

你在干什么？我们不该停在这儿。是个惊喜。

What are you doing? We don't stop here. A surprise.

对我来说，电影的魅力在于无法预知下一秒会发生什么。我享受和一群人坐在影院里，每个人都经历着未知的体验，没人能预料剧情走向。在《穆赫兰道》和大卫·林奇所有作品里都是如此。他是如此伟大的导演，你完全被大师掌控着。

For me, what I like in a movie is not knowing what's gonna happen from one moment to the next. I am interested in sitting in a theater with a bunch of people and everyone having experience, and nobody knows where anything is gonna go. And certainly in Mulholland Drive and all of David Lynch's work, it's like that. He's such a great filmmaker. You're in the hands of a master.

你被妥帖照料着，但同时被带上了一段完全未知的旅程。

You're taken care of, but you're taken on a ride that you really don't know where you're going.

人的态度...人的态度某种程度上决定了他的人生走向。你认同这个观点吗？

Man's attitude man's attitude goes some ways the way his life will be. Is that something you might agree with?

当然。

Sure.

你回答是因为觉得我想听这个，还是经过思考后真心认同？

And did you answer because that's what you thought I wanted to hear, or did you think about what I said and answer because you truly believe that to be right?

我真心赞同你说的。

I agree with what you said, truly.

我刚才说什么了？

What'd I say?

好的，凯尔。你能告诉我剩下的前十名吗？

Okay, Kyle. Can you give me the rest of the top 10?

没问题。第十名是《社交网络》。

Yeah. Number 10 is The Social Network.

我打赌你最讨厌的是他们把我列为Facebook的联合创始人之一，

And I'll bet what you hated the most is that they identified me as a co founder of Facebook,

那是大卫·芬奇执导的关于Facebook创立过程的电影。第九名是《千与千寻》，这是榜单上排名最高的动画电影。

which That's David Fincher's film about the founding of Facebook. Number nine is Spirited Away, which is the highest placing animated movie on our list.

好吧。我的名字总算回来了。

Fine. I got my name back.

我们还会再见面吗？

Will we meet again sometime?

当然会。保证？保证。现在走吧，别回头。

Sure we will. Promise? Promise. Now go, if don't look back.

第八名是《逃出绝命镇》。

Number eight is get out.

呃。

Ugh.

钥匙在哪，罗斯？

Where are those keys, Rose?

你知道我不能把钥匙给你。对吧，宝贝？

You know I can't give you the keys. Right, babe?

太棒了。

So good.

太棒了。而且让我激动的是它进入了前十名。第七名是《美丽心灵的永恒阳光》。

So good. And I was thrilled that it was in the top 10. Number seven is eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.

乔尔，记忆清除公司的人要来了。不如你带我去别的地方？去一个我不该去的地方，我们躲到天亮。

Joel, the eraser guys are coming here. So what if you take me somewhere else? Somewhere where I don't belong and we hide there till morning.

老兄，没有你我什么都记不起来。

Man, I can't remember anything without you.

这话很甜，但试着回忆。好吗？

That's very sweet, but try. Okay?

好的。第六名是科恩兄弟的《老无所依》。

Okay. Number six, no country for old men from the Cohn Brothers.

什么是你

What's the most

在抛硬币时输掉最多的一次？先生？你抛硬币输掉最多的一次是多少？我不知道。我说不上来。

you ever lost on a coin toss? Sir? The most you ever lost on a coin toss? I don't know. I couldn't say.

猜正反？

Call it?

在我的清单上。

On my list.

哦，你选票上也有这部吗？是的。第五名，《月光男孩》。

Oh, was that on your ballot too? Yes. Number five, Moonlight.

我是说，你不必爱我。上帝知道当你需要爱时，我并未给予。我明白这点。所以你不必爱我，但你会知道我爱你。

I mean, you ain't gotta love me. Lord knows I did not have love for you when you needed it. I know that. So you ain't gotta love me, but you gonna know that I love you.

第四名，王家卫的《花样年华》。第三名，保罗·托马斯·安德森执导、丹尼尔·戴-刘易斯主演的《血色将至》。

Number four, In the Mood for Love from Wong Kar Wai. Number three, There Will Be Blood from the director Paul Thomas Anderson starring Daniel Day Lewis.

我喝了你的奶昔。

I drink your milkshake.

太棒了。太棒了。第二名是《穆赫兰道》。

Incredible. Incredible. And number two is Mul Mulholland Drive.

就是这女孩。绝佳选择。第

This is the girl. Excellent choice. Number

一名是《寄生虫》。

one was Parasite.

精髓？这是事实。

Marrow? It's fact.

好的。我们来聊聊《寄生虫》。我想知道你为何认为——你刚才提到过——为何认为它是第一名？这部电影哪些方面引发了如此广泛的共鸣？

Okay. Let's get into Parasite. I wanna know why you think I mean, you were getting at this, but why you think it is number one? What about that movie resonated so widely?

要知道，《寄生虫》是首部非英语电影获得奥斯卡最佳影片奖。我认为它之所以能胜出的原因，在影片上映后的这些年里愈发凸显。除了本身是一部绝佳的电影外，《寄生虫》探讨的正是我们当下日常所面临的议题——尤其是日益加剧的财富鸿沟，那种阶级界限不断恶化、我们承受更多苦难、人性逐渐丧失的感受。这正是2019年影片上映时我们共同经历的共鸣。

Well, know, Parasite was the first movie not in English to win the Best Picture Oscar. And I think the reasons that it triumphed there have only become more pronounced in the years since it came out, you know. In addition to just being a damn good movie, Parasite is about the issues that we're contending with on daily basis right now. In particular, that wealth gap, that feeling that the boundary between classes is only getting worse and we're only suffering more and it's stripping away our humanity. That's something that we felt in 2019 when Parasite came out.

如今这种感受只会更加尖锐。这部电影在当时就具有前瞻性，而它对当下时代的诠释甚至比刚上映时更为精准。

That's something we only feel more acutely about now. It is a film that felt prescient at the time that speaks to our current moment even better than it did when it came out.

完全同意。想想《寄生虫》这部直白展现阶级战争暴力本质的电影，它捕捉的不仅是韩国社会根深蒂固的不平等，更是对全球现状的隐喻。显然如此，否则它不会成为数百人心中的第一名。

Totally. I mean and when you think about Parasite, a movie that is quite literally about class war in the most violent sense, it sort of feels like it's not just capturing inequities baked into Korean society. It's telling us something about the world. I mean, clearly, because it's number one for hundreds of people.

没错。从特殊中见普遍，这份榜单上的电影——尤其是排名靠前的作品——正是绝佳例证。是的，《寄生虫》聚焦韩国社会的特定阶层，但谁不能从中看到自己的影子呢？

Yeah. You know, honestly, in this specific, you find the universal. And I think the films that made the list, especially the films that placed highly on this list, are a good example of that. Yes. Parasite is very specifically about this section of South Korean society, but who can't relate to that?

对吧？就像榜单上某些更另类的电影，总有些触动你内心的东西，让你从中窥见自己的生活。

You know? Right. Just just as even, you know, some of the stranger films on this list, there's something that you feel, something you respond to that tells you something about your own life.

我是莫利·林沃德。大多数人可能通过我年轻时演的电影认识我——《十六支蜡烛》《早餐俱乐部》《红粉佳人》。我现在也是个作家。记得看《寄生虫》时正在托潘加峡谷，和丈夫一起看的，当时我们对影片一无所知。

I'm Molly Ringwald. Most people would probably know me from a lot of movies that I did when I was young, 16 Candles, Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink. And I'm also a writer. I remember where I saw it. I was in Topanga Canyon at the time, and I was watching it with my husband, and we really didn't know anything about it.

印象最深是那个长镜头：他们走进地下室，穿过走廊，然后突然发现这家人住在豪宅里。我和丈夫当时震惊得说不出话，简直难以置信。

I remember there is that long sequence. You know, they're walking in the house in the basement, and I and I remember, like, going down a hallway. And then when you discover this family living in the house. I remember both my husband and I were just, what? Like, oh my god.

之后你就完全被吸引住了。能达到这种震撼程度的电影实在寥寥无几。

Then you're just completely focused. And there's just not that many movies, I think, that that do that on that level.

广告后继续。凯尔，我们聊了上榜电影，现在说说落选作品。除了《贱女孩》之外，我们《每日秀》还注意到其他遗漏...

We'll be right back. Kyle, we've talked about what is on the list. I wanna talk about what's not on the list. Among the omissions that we at The Daily noticed, besides for Mean Girls, which I mean

为《贱女孩》讨个公道。

Justice for Mean Girls.

我简直不敢相信。

I I can't believe it.

别再妄想‘fetch’能流行起来了，它永远不会成真。

Stop trying to make fetch happen. It's not going to happen.

问题是超级英雄电影并不多。你对此怎么看？

Is that there aren't a lot of superhero movies. What What do you make of that?

有两部上榜——《黑豹》和《黑暗骑士》。但你说得对，对于这份榜单上仅有两部超级英雄电影，我的看法是：这恰恰说明只有真正杰出的作品才能经受时间考验，尤其是考虑到大多数超级英雄叙事...

There are two. We have Black Panther and The Dark Knight on this list. But you're right. What do I make of the fact that there are only two on this list? I think it's an indication that the movie has to be really, really good to stand the test of time, especially, you know, a lot of superhero storytelling.

本质上都是在为下一章节做铺垫，对吧？就像悬而未决的剧情，片尾彩蛋总在引导观众‘去看这部’‘去看那部’。

It's meant to set up the next chapter. Right? Like, are essentially cliffhangers. They've got post credit scenes saying, go to this movie. Go to this movie.

或许某种程度上，这些作品开始变得千篇一律。那么在这些企业制片厂主导的超级英雄叙事中，真正独特的艺术表达是什么？在满足各种商业要求的同时，还可能拍出独具匠心的电影吗？要知道，打造一部风格鲜明的动作片绝非易事，世上能如此驾驭镜头的人屈指可数。

Maybe at a certain point, it all starts to blur together. So what are the truly unique visions that come out of this, you know, corporate studio mandated superhero storytelling? Is it even possible to make a film that feels especially unique when you're serving all of those corporate mandates? You know, it isn't easy to make an action film that feels distinctive. There are only a couple people who are even capable of of of wielding the camera like that.

所以当你看到克里斯托弗·诺兰和瑞恩·库格勒执导的超级英雄电影——没错，榜单上仅有的这两部——想想创作者吧。他们是真正的电影作者，是那种让人期待其新作的少数派。

So when you see films made by, you know, superhero films made by Christopher Nolan and Ryan Coogler Mhmm. That those are the only two movies that made this list. Well, think of the men who made those, you know. Those are true auteurs. Those are two of the people who you'd be most excited to see a new movie by.

他们都是有独到见解的电影人。

You know, they're people with a point of view.

各位坐在这儿挺惬意吧。全球有20亿和我们肤色相同的人正过着艰难得多的生活。瓦坎达拥有解放他们的工具。是什么工具呢？

Y'all sitting up here comfortable. Must feel good. It's about 2,000,000,000 people all over the world that looks like us, but their lives are a lot harder. Wakanda has the tools to liberate them all. And what tools are those?

振金。你们的武器。

Vibranium. Your weapons.

我们的武器将不会

Our weapons will not be

我是吉娜·普林斯-拜斯伍德，编剧兼导演。我的作品包括《爱情与篮球》、《女国王》，以及即将上映的《血与骨的孩子》。

I'm Gina Prince Bythewood, writer director. Some of my works include Love and Basketball, The Woman King, and now the upcoming Children of Blood and Bone.

特查拉国王，

King T'Challa,

《黑豹》这部电影彻底改变了游戏规则。尤其对黑人电影制作人和艺术家而言，瑞恩成功地将丰富的文化注入漫威宇宙，而大多数工作室对此避之不及，他们认为文化特异性会让人望而却步。但实际上，它反而吸引了观众，让这些故事显得新颖。

the flick panther. Black Panther just absolutely reset the game. And certainly for black filmmakers and black artists, Ryan was able to infuse so much culture into the Marvel universe, and most studios shy away from that because they feel like culture specificity pushes people away. But it actually pulls them in. It draws you in, and it makes these stories feel fresh.

瑞恩以如此美丽的方式，在如此宏大的画布上融入了我们的文化，同时讲述了一个让我们深深关心英雄和反派的故事。你会毁灭世界，包括瓦坎达。

And Ryan just put so much of our culture in such a beautiful way, on such a beautiful big canvas, at the same time telling a story where we care deeply about both the hero and the villain. You will destroy the world, Wakanda included.

这个世界夺走了我的一切，我所爱的一切。

The world took everything away from me, everything I ever loved.

比如，我的两个儿子

Like, my two sons

我会检查一下

I'm a check down

你知道，他们喜欢基尔蒙格，我也能理解为什么。看到我的儿子们走出影院时，我记得他们当时12岁和15岁，挺起胸膛，昂首阔步。对他们来说，能这样看到自己的影子真是太棒了。是的，他彻底改变了漫威，将其塑造成绝对值得赞扬的作品。

You know, they love Killmonger, and and I could understand why. To see my sons walk out of a theater, I think they were 12 and 15 at the time, like, with their chest out and their shoulders back. I mean, that's an amazing thing for them to be able to see themselves reflected like that. Yeah, he just took Marvel and twisted it and made it into something I'm absolutely worthy of praise.

也许我们还能听到你。为什么？

Maybe we can still hear you. Why?

所以你可以直接把我关起来。

So you could just lock me up.

基尔蒙格之死——当他和黑豹站在悬崖上俯瞰非洲大陆时，他那句关于我们这些从奴隶船上跳入海中的人们的台词。

Killmonger's death when he and Black Panther were up on the cliff overlooking the continent and just his line about those of us who jumped off the slave ships and into the water.

就把我和那些从船上跳下的祖先们一起葬在海里吧，因为他们知道死亡胜过奴役。

Just bury me in the ocean with my ancestors that jumped from the ships because they knew death was better than bondage.

漫威电影里出现这样的台词简直不可思议。那种力量感，还有看到情感共鸣——不仅是我丈夫和我能完全理解这句话，我的儿子们也是。

A line like that in a Marvel film. It was ridiculous, and the power of that, and, again, to see the emotion, not only for my husband and I, who could fully understand that statement, but my sons as well.

凯尔，我想提出的是，我认为你所说的这种作者型商业大片的最高典范是《疯狂的麦克斯：狂暴之路》。

Kyle, I wanted to bring up that the highest ranking version, I think, of of this thing you're talking about where it's like an auteur blockbuster type of movie is Mad Max Fury Road.

你

You

还为这部电影写过书。当我与业内人士谈论它时，简直不敢相信这部电影激发的热情。你觉得这部动作片究竟有什么特别之处，能让人如此心潮澎湃？

wrote a book on this movie. I could not believe the passion that this movie elicited when I talked to people in the industry about it. So what do you think it was about this particular action movie that made people feel so strongly about it?

我认为没有任何动作片能与之比肩，以后也不会再有。你明白吗？

I just don't think there's any action movie like it, and I don't think there ever will be again. You know?

我

I

觉得特别值得注意的是，这部电影既是乔治·米勒导演这位独特远见者的产物，也是其实拍方式的成果——实地拍摄真实撞车场面。当然有特效辅助，但这种规模的实拍程度是空前绝后的。现在几乎所有场景都在绿幕前拍摄，或者说在更受控的片场环境中完成。

think that's a that's a particularly interesting thing to note because that movie was the product of a singular visionary, the director George Miller, but also the way it was made where it was shot on location with real car crashes. Yes. There were special effects aiding everything, but the amount of doing it for real is something you simply do not get at this scale and will not get at this scale, I think, ever again. Almost everything is shot on green screen or, you know, in Right. In much more studio managed environments.

尽管《疯狂的麦克斯：狂暴之路》如此奇幻，但当你看到有人从车上摔下或车辆翻滚时，你会想，哇，我刚刚目睹了人们的死亡。

Whereas for as fantastical as Mad Max Fury Road is, when you see somebody fall off a car or a car flips over, you think, wow, I just watched people die.

完全同意。完全同意。

Totally. Totally.

它在某种程度上带来的冲击感几乎无与伦比。如今我们观看的大多数超级英雄或动作大片，我几乎感受不到什么，因为我觉得那些车是电脑生成的。我只是看着两个毫无感觉、不会流血的人互相殴打。而《疯狂的麦克斯：狂暴之路》，我感受到了所有的一切，至今仍如此。即使已经写过一本关于它的书，我再看时依然会被深深吸引。

It is visceral in a way that almost nothing is anymore. Most every superhero temple or action temple we watch right now, I'm not feeling very much because I think that car was computer generated. And I'm just watching two people slug each other who aren't feeling anything and do not bleed. Whereas Mad Max Fury Road, I felt everything and continue to. Even after having written a book about it, I could watch that and still be transported.

太棒了。你让我现在就想去看。

Amazing. You you're making me wanna go watch it right now.

很好。这正是我的目的。

Good. That was my whole mission

做这个播客。你成功了。显然，《黑豹》和《狂暴之路》是这些大型动作大片，但正如我们所说，它们并不是这份榜单的常态。我想看到这些的人可能会说，好吧。

doing this podcast. You success. Okay. Obviously, Black Panther and Fury Road are these huge action blockbusters, but those are not the norm on this list, as we've said. And I think people who see that might say, well, sure.

好莱坞内部人士制作了这份榜单。他们有点精英主义。他们没选超级英雄电影并不奇怪。你会怎么回应？

Hollywood insiders made this list. They're kind of the elite. It's not surprising they didn't choose, you know, superhero movies. What would you say to that?

嗯，让我非常惊讶的是，最终我们整理了一份单独的投票。那份投票来自读者选票。当人们有机会自己制作选票时。最终，这些选票被统计成他们自己的总榜单，来自读者的超过20万张选票。哇。

Well, what I found very surprising is that ultimately, we put together a separate poll. That poll was drawn from the reader ballots. When people were given the ability to craft their own ballot. Eventually, those ballots got tabulated into their own master list of over 200,000 ballots from the readers. Wow.

所以你会……

So something that you would

20万？

200,000?

是的。有些电影你可能会认为更大众化或反映不同审美取向，我们确实看到了一些差异。但令我惊讶的是，许多所谓的'高雅电影'既出现在好莱坞前十榜单，也跻身读者票选前十。事实上，在好莱坞榜单分批次每日公布前20名之前，我们就已开放了读者投票通道。甚至在那周的周一、周二、周三，当人们投票时，我震惊地发现《寄生虫》和《穆赫兰道》在读者票选中遥遥领先。

Yeah. Something that you would think would be maybe, you know, more populist or reflect different sensibilities and we did see some differences. But what I was struck by is that a lot of those so called highbrow films that are in the Hollywood top 10, we also found in the reader top 10. In fact, you know, we had rolled out the ability to to cast your own ballot long before we'd revealed the top 20 movies on the Hollywood list which we did in in batches of 20 every day. And even, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of that week as people were casting their ballots, I was so struck to see both Parasite and Mulholland Drive leading the reader ballot poll.

诸如《老无所依》《血色将至》《社交网络》等同样多部影片也位列读者票选前十。确实，读者更倾向于接受动作片和类型片。《沙丘》两部曲都进入了读者榜单，《指环王》三部曲也悉数入选。

And many of those same films like No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, The Social Network, also in the top 10 for the readers. Yes. There is a more of a willingness to embrace action movies and genre fare. You've got both Dune movies on the reader list. You have all three Lord of the Rings movies.

但超级英雄电影并不多。不过读者榜单第100名确实出现了《复仇者联盟4：终局之战》。

But not many more superhero movies. Although, you do see Avengers Endgame in the number 100 slot on the reader's list.

你注意到两份榜单之间还有哪些相似之处？

What were some of the other similarities you noticed between the two lists?

再次强调，你或许认为读者榜单会反映当下潮流——现实是流媒体已经颠覆了我们的文化生态。但与此同时，读者票选前100名中竟没有一部流媒体电影。

Well, again, you might expect a readers list to reflect the current trends which let's be real, the streaming landscape has upended almost everything about our culture. But at the same time, there were no streaming movies in the top 100 of the readers list.

哇。好莱坞榜单呢？

Wow. And in the Hollywood list?

好莱坞榜单仅有一部——阿方索·卡隆的《罗马》，这位导演是好莱坞榜单中作品入选最多的电影人之一。但这很能说明问题。我欣赏这份百佳榜单的地方在于，如果你对其中某部没看过的电影产生兴趣，几乎立刻就能在某个流媒体平台点播观看。这种便捷程度令人惊叹，且完全不受地域限制——无论你住处附近是否有电影院。但读者不选择流媒体电影，或许正表明他们观看这类影片时的投入程度之低。

Only one on the Hollywood list, Roma by Alfonso Cuaron who was one of the most represented filmmakers on the Hollywood list. But I think that's revealing, you know. I love the fact that you have a list like this of 100 movies and if you're curious about any of the films that you haven't seen, you can almost immediately go to one streaming service or another and fire that movie up and watch it. That is an incredible level of access and it really doesn't matter where you live, if there is a movie theater even by you. But at the same time, I think for the readers to not be choosing streaming movies may be an indication of how little they're really watching those movies when they watch them.

要知道，你可以开着流媒体影片的同时刷手机、发推文、查看Ins、甚至叠衣服——任由剧情在背景中播放。我不认为这种体验会让人在回忆过去二十五年的最爱电影时留下印象。

You know, you can fire up something on streaming and be on your phone. You can be live tweeting it. You can be checking your Instagram. You can be doing laundry and folding it as something plays out in the background. And I don't think that's the experience that people are going to remember when they're thinking about their favorite movies of the last twenty five years.

正如我所说，影院体验能在你的电影记忆中留下深刻烙印，而流媒体恐怕难以复制这种感受。

Like I said, you know, that theatrical experience can put such an impressive thumbprint on your memory of the movie, and I'm not sure that streaming can replicate that.

但这很有趣，因为我在与电影人、演员、编剧交流时，这个话题反复出现——他们几乎都表示最爱的电影是在大银幕上观看的。当然，这些人本就是专业从业者。但我也清楚记得自己观看某些挚爱影片时的具体位置，比如能准确说出当时坐第几排。我不禁思考：这种实体体验、集体观影的仪式感，是否在本质上造就了不同？

But it's so interesting because this is something that came up a lot in the conversations that I had with, you know, the filmmakers and the actors and the writers is that pretty much all of them said that their favorite movies were ones they had seen on the big screen. And, obviously, these are people that literally do this for a living. But I too, you know, remember where I was when I saw, you know, some of my favorite movies physically. Like, I could tell you what row I was in. And I I just wonder if there's something about that, the physical experience, the communal experience that makes it different substantively?

那么，娜塔莉，我可以用一个问题来回答你的问题吗？

Well, can I answer your question with the question, Natalie?

哦，可以，你请说。

Oh, I yes. You may.

如果要你选一部电影，毫不犹豫地放进你的十佳榜单，关于观看那部电影的体验，你还记得些什么？

If you had to put a movie that would be your no brainer pick on your own ballot of 10, What do you remember about the experience of watching that movie?

好的，这个问题我很高兴你问。《原钻》就是我会选的那部。

Okay. This I'm so glad you asked. Uncut Gems is the one I would put on there.

《原钻》，在我们的提名名单上排名第58位，虽然没有获得任何奥斯卡奖，但那年它击败了许多其他获奖影片入选了这个榜单。

Uncut Gems, number 58 on our nominated for any Oscars, but made that list over many other films that won Oscars that year.

好的，它是最棒的。我太高兴了

Okay. It's the best. I'm so glad to

听到你这么说。

hear that.

你派收债的人到我办公室来搞我？你他妈疯了吗？我他妈离这辈子最大的一笔交易就差几分钟了。等我搞定这笔交易，你

You're sending collectors to fuck with me at my office? Are you out of your fucking mind? I'm literally minutes away from closing the biggest deal of my goddamn life. And when I do, you're gonna

我在电影院第二排看的这部电影。给

I saw that movie in the second row of the theater. Get

我滚开电话。然后

the fuck off the phone. And

这部电影节奏紧张刺激，让人欲罢不能。

it was such an intense, propulsive movie.

靠。什么情况？快看这个。我爱死这个了。我爱死这个了。

Shit. What what? Watch this. I love that. I love that.

对我来说，你不会的。那是个假保龄球。

For me, you won't. There's a fake bowling.

当时我在影院的位置让我感觉像坐在一辆没有刹车的车里，在高速公路上疾驰。谁的？哦，鲍勃。鲍勃。你会...

That being where I was in the theater made it feel like I was in a car that had no brakes and I was speeding down the highway. Who's? Oh, Bob. Bob. You're gonna get

现在就把那贱人弄下来？我要上去。

that bitch down here now? I'm gonna take me up.

整个观影体验简直令人震撼。我朋友说她拍了我一张照片。她和我一起看的电影，就是为了在最后感受那种集体共鸣的时刻。

It was just overwhelming as an experience. My friend told me she has a picture of me. She saw it with me in the movie just to speak to the communal part of this at the very end of it.

你他妈刚才干了什么？

What the fuck did you just do?

什么鬼？我双手捂着脸，紧紧抓着我的脸，因为那种能量感实在太强烈了。

What the fuck? With my hands, like, over my face, just kind of, like, grabbing my my face because it was you it was palpable, the energy of it.

我认为那种能量感才是让人难忘的。对吧？在影院观看的体验就是与众不同，这份榜单正是对那种体验的真实致敬。

And I think that energy is what you remember. Right? There is just something about that experience of seeing that in a theater, and this list is a real tribute to that.

就像进入另一个世界。仿佛乘着魔毯闯入别人的梦境。你可以成为英雄。我的意思是，走进影院就会忘记自我，成为电影的一部分。

It's like entering another world. It's like being on a magic carpet going into somebody else's dream. You could be a hero. What I mean is that you would go into the theater and forget yourself. You would become part of the movie.

你会为电影里的人感到害怕。你会和电影里的人一起笑。

You would be scared for the people in the movie. You would laugh with people in the movie.

我觉得在影院看电影能让人完全沉浸其中。

I think watching a movie in a theater, it just transports you.

哪里还能体验到这么震撼的音效？对吧？或者看到这么巨幅的画面。正因为如此，影院是个充满魔力的地方。

Where else do you get to have a sound blasting like that? Right? Or have an image that big in front of you. It's a magical place because of that.

去影院观影这个行为本身有物理要求——固定时长、灯光熄灭、与众人共处、被带领踏上旅程且必须全程参与。当然你也可以离场，但本质上你是把体验完全交给了创作者。

The physical requirements of the act of going to see a movie, you know, there's a set set amount of time, the lights go down, you're with people, you are taken on a on a journey, and you have to endure it. I mean, I suppose you could leave, like, you put that but the but you are in the hands of the artist.

在影院和众人共处的感觉很特别——所有人同时大笑，所有人同时落泪。

There's something about being in a theater with people, you know, where everybody's laughing at the same moment. Everybody's crying at the same moment.

这是与陌生人的共情体验：我们同时欢笑，同时哭泣，同时感受，同时振奋，同时恐惧。

It's the shared experience of people you don't even know, but we're all laughing at the same time. We're all crying at the same time. We're all feeling. We're all lifted. We're all scared.

这种剧场体验美妙得不可思议。

It's an incredible thing. It's a beautiful thing, the theatrical experience.

好吧，我不是要扫大家热爱影院的兴致，但我觉得这个行业的根本格局不会因为这份榜单或其他因素改变。流媒体仍将主导，电影仍要和我们手机上的短视频内容竞争。

Okay. So I don't mean to rain on our parade of loving the theaters right now, but I don't think that the fundamental dynamics of this industry are really gonna shift because of this list or anything else. Right? I mean, streamers are still gonna be dominant. Movies are still gonna be competing with these short little bursts of video on our phone.

这不禁让人思考：二十五年后，我们会不会评选21世纪前100名的抖音视频？这有可能吗？

I mean, it does make you kind of wonder, you know, in twenty five years, are we gonna be listing the top 100 TikToks of the twenty first century? Is that possible?

我可能会看，反正很快就能刷完。但话说回来，现在事物发展快如光速——如今如日中天的抖音，十年后还会存在吗？真的很难说。

I mean, I'd watch them. It would be quick. But, you know, at the at the same time, things do move at the speed of light. Will TikTok even be around in ten years for as dominant as it is now? It's hard to tell.

但我可以向你保证，电影会一直存在。它们已经存在了这么久。观看电影的方式可能会继续改变，你知道，过去十年电影行业的变化令人眼花缭乱，但电影会一直存在。当你与一部电影产生那种奇妙而独特的共鸣时，感觉电影懂你，你也以某种出乎意料的方式理解了电影，甚至可能从中发现关于自己的一些东西，这样的体验，谁会愿意错过呢？

But I do guarantee you that movies will be. They've been around for as long as they have. The process of watching them may continue to change, you know, the way the movie industry has changed over the last ten years has been dizzying but movies will be around. And when you have that really wonderful specific experience with a movie where you feel like a movie gets you and you get a movie in a way that is surprising and maybe even reveal something about yourself, well, who'd pass that experience up?

凯尔，这次谈话非常愉快。非常感谢你的到来。

Kyle, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for coming on.

我很高兴能为《每日秀》带来一点乐趣。

I'm glad that I could bring a little bit of fun to The Daily.

我们稍后回来。以下是今天你还需要知道的其他消息。

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today.

我们进行了一次非常愉快的通话。他在通话中。泽连斯基总统也在通话中。我会给这次通话打10分，非常非常友好。

We had a very good call. He was on the call. President Zelensky was on the call. I would rate it a 10, know, very, very friendly.

乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基和欧洲领导人周三表示，他们已与特朗普总统就他即将与俄罗斯总统弗拉基米尔·普京的会晤制定了策略。他们商定的参数包括坚持任何和平计划必须以停火为前提，且乌克兰必须参与谈判，以及俄罗斯与乌克兰之间的任何领土交换在停火实施前都不会讨论。周三，一家联邦上诉法院为特朗普政府继续扣留国会已拨款的数十亿美元外援资金扫清了障碍。法院裁定，接受政府资助并提起诉讼以追回这笔资金的全球健康非营利组织无权提出这一挑战。这是上诉法院一系列裁决中的最新一项，这些裁决推翻了地方法院的判决，限制了总统的广泛行动。

Ukrainian president, Vladimir Zelensky, and European leaders said on Wednesday that they'd worked out a strategy with president Trump for his upcoming meeting with president Vladimir Putin of Russia. They agreed upon parameters included insisting that any peace plans start with a ceasefire, which wouldn't be negotiated without Ukraine at the table, and that any land swaps between Russia and Ukraine wouldn't be discussed before a ceasefire is put in place. And on Wednesday, a federal appeals court cleared the way for the Trump administration to keep withholding billions of dollars in foreign aid that had already been appropriated by Congress. The court found that the global health nonprofits that received government funding and had sued to recover that money didn't have the right to bring the challenge. It was the latest in a series of decisions by appeals courts, which have overturned lower court rulings, curbing sweeping actions by the president.

今天的节目由迈克尔·西蒙·约翰逊、香农·林恩、罗谢尔·邦贾和悉尼·哈珀制作。由布伦丹·克林肯伯格和迈克·贝努瓦编辑。原创音乐由阿留巴·埃图佩、黛安·王、罗恩·内梅斯托、迈克尔·西蒙·约翰逊和丹·鲍威尔创作，由克里斯·伍德负责技术制作。我们的主题音乐由Wonderly的吉姆·布伦德伯格和本·兰斯伯格创作。以上就是今天的《每日秀》。

Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson, Shannon Lynn, Rochelle Bonja, and Sydney Harper. It was edited by Brendan Klinkenberg and Mike Benoit. Contains original music by Alyjouba Etoupe, Diane Wong, Rowan Nemestow, Michael Simon Johnson, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brundberg and Ben Lansberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily.

我是娜塔莉·基特罗夫。明天见。

I'm Natalie Kitrove. See you tomorrow.