投资 vs 房地产 vs 加密货币辩论：退休危机即将来临，而他们却在租房问题上对你撒谎！

它们都需要获得报酬。而实现这一点的方式就是使用加密货币

They're all gonna have to be paid. And the way of doing that is using crypto

支付轨道。稳定币。

rails. Stablecoins.

无论是稳定币还是其他什么，但整个加密货币通道，你知道，所有这些互联网的新基础设施，区块链，这才是它发挥作用的地方。

Whether it's stablecoins, whatever it is, but that whole crypto rail, you know, all of this new infrastructure for the Internet, the the blockchain, that's where it works.

通常，一家公司成功或失败的区别不在于其产品或战略，而在于内部的人员。毕竟，'公司'这个词的定义就是一群人，世界上一些最优秀的公司很大程度上是由A级人才打造的，因为我要告诉你一个小秘密：当你雇佣一个A级人才时，他们会继续雇佣更多A级人才，这种效应会持续下去。挑战在于找到最初的那几个A级人才。

Often, the difference between a company succeeding or failing isn't down to its product or strategy. It's down to the people on the inside. After all, the definition of the word company is group of people, and some of the best companies in the world have been largely built by a players because I'll let you in on a little secret. When you hire an a player, they go on to hire more a players, and it perpetuates. The challenge is finding those first few a players.

我大部分人才都是在LinkedIn上找到的，他们是本节目的赞助商。LinkedIn提供了我在其他地方找不到的人才，这些人才具备我所需的技能和文化契合度。每当我付费在LinkedIn上推广职位时，我都能更快且当然更好地完成招聘。数据也支持这一点：实际上你会获得比免费发布相同职位多三倍的合格申请人。

I found the majority of mine on LinkedIn who are a sponsor of this show. LinkedIn provides talent I could not find anywhere else, talent with the necessary skills and culture fit that I'm looking for. Whenever I've paid to promote a role on LinkedIn, I've been able to hire faster and, of course, better. The data supports this too. You'll actually get three times more qualified applicants than if you posted the same role for free.

所以，如果你正在努力打造真正伟大的东西，你可以通过访问linkedin.com/doac免费发布职位来开始。那就是linkedin.com/doac，你可以在那里免费发布你的职位。当然，适用条款和条件。你们有人记得我在这个播客中与人类学家丹尼尔·利伯曼的对话吗？那是我们历史上观看次数最多的对话之一，而那个对话中回放最多的时刻是我谈论这个产品的时候。

So if you're trying to build something truly great, you can get started by posting a job for free by visiting linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/doac, and you can post your role for free there. Terms and conditions, of course, apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time and the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product.

这就是我称之为Vivo Barefoot的赤足鞋，它们显著减少了支撑，让我的脚得到了它们迫切需要的加强机会。如果你从这个播客中学到了什么，那可能是我们正生活在舒适危机中，在我们生活的所有时刻，我们都在做这个权衡：是现在更舒适因此未来更不适，还是现在稍微少一点舒适，但在未来更强大、更健康。对我来说，这就是选择穿赤足鞋。所以，如果你想开始加强你的脚和身体，请访问vivobarefoot.com/steven，结账时使用代码stevenb20，你将获得20%的折扣。还附带100天退款保证。

These are what I call Barefoot Shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. If you've learned anything from this podcast, it might be that we're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And for me that is the choice to wear barefoot shoes. So if you wanna start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot.com/steven, and you'll get 20% off when you use code steven b 20 at checkout. That also comes with a one hundred day money back guarantee.

你有什么可失去的呢？我想问你一个问题。是的。我之所以去拿手机，是因为有一个我童年认识的人联系了我。曾经是我最好的朋友之一。

What have you got to lose? I wanted to ask you a question. Yeah. The reason I went and got my phone is because I had someone contact me that I knew from my childhood. Used to be one of my best friends.

嗯。

Mhmm.

说实话，我他妈有十年没跟他们说过话了。他们给我发了条短信，短信内容是：我想听听你对这件事的看法，因为我...我最后对他说，听着，你问错人了。我觉得你误解我是谁了。嗨，老兄。希望你一切都好。

Frankly, not spoke to them in fucking ten years. Sent me a text message, and the text message they sent me is I wanted to get your opinion on this because I I said I ended up saying to him, listen, I'm not the guy to ask about this. I think you've misunderstood who I am. Hi, mate. I hope you're well.

我惹上了一点债务麻烦，大约4万英镑。所以不止是一点麻烦。我想寻求一些建议和方向，关于可能通过被动收入/某种途径来努力摆脱困境。有没有我应该阅读或观看的资料，你可能知道的？我问他，我说，是什么类型的债务？

I got myself in a bit of trouble with some debt, about £40,000. So more than a bit of trouble. After I'm after some advice and direction in terms of maybe passive income slash an avenue to try and work my way out of it. Is there some material I should be reading, watching that you might know of? And I asked him, I said, what kind of debt is it?

他说，个人贷款和信用卡，老兄。我说，比如，我需要确定这些债务的紧急程度，以及是否造成了任何直接的问题。他说，嗯，它们不是特别紧急。但由于每月高昂的支出，这个月我的房贷还款已经拖欠一个月了。所以，它，就像，是，但这不是因为我不想继续处于那种境地。

And he said, personal loans and credit cards, mate. And I said, like, how I need to ascertain how urgent those debts are and if it's causing any any immediate issues. And he said, well, they're not super urgent. But as a result of the high monthly outgoings, I'm a month behind my mortgage payment this month. So it, like, is, but it's not because I don't want to keep being in that position moving forward.

目前它每月花费我大约1000美元或800英镑来还款，而且我无法获得合并贷款。这简直是完美风暴的开始，因为我刚换了一份新工作，我的伴侣正在休产假，而我又有这座债务大山。它开始影响到我的家庭了

It's costing me circa $1,000 or £800 a month in repayments at the moment, and I can't get a consolidation loan. It's a perfect storm starting because I've just started a new job, and my partner is on maternity leave, and I have this debt mountain. It's starting to affect my family

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果我付不起房贷。你懂吧？所以我必须做出改变，想办法解决，而你是寻求建议的最佳人选。我当时想，我靠。我不是...然后他一小时内又给我发消息说，嘿。

If I can't pay the mortgage. You know? So I've gotta change moving forward and figure out what to do, and you're the man to ask for advice. I was like, fuck me. I'm not then he messaged me again within an hour and said, hey.

抱歉，老兄。如果你忙的话，只是想提醒一下。然后一小时后我又收到消息，因为我在飞机上，他说，嘿。我真的需要一些帮助和方向，老兄。我快走投无路了。

Sorry, man. If you're busy, just wanted to nudge this. Then messaged again an hour later because I was on a flight and said, hey. I really need some help in direction, man. I'm quickly running out of places to turn.

他处境确实很艰难，因为背负着4万英镑的债务，假设利率是15%到20%，利息支付很快就会失控。如果债务低于1万英镑，还稍微可控些。但4万英镑的情况下，利息会快速复利累积。你说他有房贷，甚至可能需要考虑搬家、出售房产，至少先控制住利息支付，或者减少债务总额。这种情况就需要尽可能削减每项开支，把所有钱都用来偿还利率最高的债务。

He's kind of in a hard spot because £40,000 in debt with the interest payments of, let's say, your interest rate is 15 to 20%, that starts to spiral out of control a little Like, if he was under £10,000 in in debt, it's a little bit more manageable. But at 40,000, the interest starts to compound quite quickly. So, you know, you said he had a mortgage. He might even have to consider moving, selling, selling the home to at least get the interest payments under control or, like, reduce that amount of debt. It's kind of one of those situations where you just need to reduce every single expense possible and start really pouring all your money into the highest interest rate debt that he owns.

你可以把所有债务按利率从高到低排序，然后从最高的开始处理。如果某笔债务利率高达22%，就要优先清偿，因为这才是最致命的。这种债务水平下真的很困难，很多人会考虑申请破产来清零债务——具体取决于他的收入情况。我认识一个服务员，信用卡债务高达5万美元，因为利息支出和工资差不多，根本无法摆脱困境。除非能从家人那里获得个人贷款来清偿债务，否则处境会非常艰难。

So like, you know, you can rank your interest rates of all your debts from highest to lowest and start start at the very top, right? If it has 22% interest rate, you want to get rid of that first because that's what's killing them. At those levels of debt, it's really tough, because I think a lot of people consider bankruptcy at that point, just to kind of clear that amount of debt, depending on what his income is. I know I've known, let's say, a waitress or server that had $50,000 in credit card debt and just unable to get over it because the interest payments were as much as their salary. So in those cases, unless you can get a personal loan from, let's say, a family member and, you know, kind of clear that debt, you're in a really tough spot.

最大限度减少开支。所有多余资金都优先偿还利率最高的债务，首先处理利率最高的部分。如果他有资产，考虑变卖部分资产。破产。申请破产。

Reduce your expenses as much as possible. Put any extra money you have towards that debt at the highest interest rate possible, the first the highest interest rate thing, and then consider selling some assets if he has assets. Bankruptcy. Bankruptcy.

什么时候应该考虑破产？需要权衡什么？

When should someone consider bankruptcy, and what's the trade off?

代价是七年时间。在美国你的信用会彻底毁掉。其实前几天有人发给我一个推特图表，显示美国谷歌上破产律师搜索量持续上升，这可不是好现象。破产有不同类型可以申请，但通常能清除部分或全部债务，代价是一切从头开始。你会失去很多特权，比如没有信用评分。

The trade off is seven years. I believe your credit is shot in America. So but I I believe that, actually, I think if you pull up a chart someone sent me a tweet the other day of bankruptcy lawyer searches in America on Google, and it's been kind of going up into the right, which is not a great thing. Bankruptcy, just there's different types of bankruptcy that you can file for, but I do know that it usually clears some, if not all, your debt, and you basically have to start over. But as a result, you lose a lot of your privileges, like, for example, no credit score.

我读过某个统计数据——不确定真实性——大意是人们因为破产的污名而避免申请。但观察十年财务表现发现，那些选择破产的人通常比竭力避免破产的人最终状况更好。

I've read some stat. I'm not you might know if this is true, but I read a stat that it said something to the effect that people avoid going into bankruptcy because of the stigma associated with it. When they looked at the financial performance over ten years of people that did go into bankruptcy, those that did typically were better off than those that tried to avoid it for the next So, ten

嗯，这可能是个案。不好说。如果你负债5万美元而年收入也是5万，确实很难抉择。

yeah. I don't know. That could be anecdotal. I don't know. That's tough because if you have $50,000 in debt and you make $50,000 a year,

是的，这确实不同。破产在某种程度上是件好事，因为它迫使你进行危机管控。就像你的支出、你的行为，所有事情都变得高度聚焦。就像你一开始提到的，人们应该如何审视自己的开支。

it's yeah. It's different. Bankruptcy in some ways is a good thing because it forces you to do crisis control. It's like your expenditure, what you're doing, what everything becomes hyper focused. Like, you you led in the beginning with about, you know, how people should look at their expense Yeah.

支出管理，对吧？当你负债4万美元时，你显然没有做到这一点。没错。

Expenditure. Right? Yeah. When you're $40,000 in debt, you've not been doing that. Correct.

而破产实际上会迫使你在相当长的时间内约束自己，直到形成习惯。这就是为什么他们最终表现更出色，因为你已经养成了我们在讨论开头谈到的那种习惯。

And bankruptcy actually forces you to to actually discipline that for an extended period of time where it becomes a habit to steam. That's why they outperform in the end because you've created the habit that you talked about right in the beginning of this discussion.

是的。我刚看到这个数据：这是金融领域一个令人不安的真相，答案往往是肯定的。申请破产的人长期来看比那些长期试图避免破产的人结局更好。研究表明，申请破产的人通常能清除债务，摆脱无法偿还的债务。

Yeah. So I I just found the stat here. It said, yeah, this is one of the uncomfortable truths in finance, and the answer is often yes. Those who file for bankruptcy end up in a better place long term than those who try for prolonged periods of time to avoid it. And the research shows that people who file for bankruptcy typically get their debt wiped out and cleaned, and they removing unpayable debt.

破产能带来即时的精神解脱，消除无法偿还债务的沉重压力。而回避破产的人往往长期处于财务压力中，这种压力会蔓延到他们的健康、人际关系和工作。简而言之，直面破产的人通常恢复更快，最终比那些勉强维持、试图避免破产的人处于更稳固的长期地位。

Bankruptcy can bring immediate mental relief, removing the crushing stress of unpayable debts. People who avoid it often live in chronic financial stress, which spills into their health relationships and work. So in short, those who face bankruptcy head on often recover faster and end up in a long a stronger position than those who keep limping along trying to avoid it.

我认为正在收听、可能处于类似困境的人最终想知道的是：如何获得解脱。破产是一个选择，但归根结底必须做出改变，而这种改变是困难的。这是很多人难以谈论或理解的部分。解脱是存在的，但伴随着剧烈、极端且快速的牺牲。什么意思呢？

And I think somebody who's listening who may be in a similar or the same situation ultimately wants to know how do I get relief. Bankruptcy is one option, but at the end of the day, there has to be change, and that change is difficult. That's the part that I think a lot of people have a hard time talking about or comprehending. There is relief, but it comes with severe, extreme, and quick sacrifice. What do I mean?

第一，在这种情况下你必须尽快削减开支。你必须尽可能变卖物品。破产显然有效，但你也会失去房子，同时失去其他东西。这背后伴随着巨大的情感代价。

Number one, you've got to cut back your expenses as fast as possible in that situation. You have to sell as much stuff as possible. I mean, bankruptcy obviously works, but you also lose your house. You also lose other things along with it. There's a lot of emotional toll with it.

你有一个家庭，有孩子。这也是很多人最终离婚的一大原因，所以它还会以多种不同方式影响你的生活。因此你必须做出极端牺牲，我的意思是，取消Netflix订阅，不是因为它每月只花你15美元，而是因为普通美国人每天花超过两小时看Netflix。如果你处于那种情况，每天花两小时坐在那里看Netflix上的任何内容，你晚上怎么睡得着？你不应该每晚睡八小时。

You have a family, have a kid. It's also a big reason people end up getting a divorce, so it can also impact your life in many different ways. So you have to make extreme sacrifices, and I mean, get rid of the Netflix subscription, not because it's just costing you $15 a month, but because the average American is spending more than two hours a day watching Netflix. And if you're in that type of situation and you're spending two hours sitting there watching whatever the heck is on Netflix, how do you sleep at night? You shouldn't be sleeping eight hours a night.

你最好起床，去想办法多赚点钱。我不在乎是开Uber。我不在乎你是否在麦当劳工作。找些额外收入，学习如何能赚更多钱。我的意思是，这听起来很残酷，但现实是，如果你想要极端的改变，没有极端的改变是不可能实现的。

You better be getting up, go and try to get some more money. I don't care if it's Uber. I don't care if you're working at McDonald's. Find some extra money and learn how you can earn some more money. And I mean, it sounds harsh, but the reality is if you want extreme change, it's not gonna happen without extreme change.

那么你觉得他能卖掉房子吗？假设他赚5万美元，根据我对他的工作和居住地等的粗略了解，我认为这个数字可能是准确的。卖掉房子然后租公寓住？这样能释放资金吗？

So could he sell his house, do you think, that assuming he's making the 50 k, which I I think is probably accurate, having a vague understanding of his job and where he lives, etcetera, sell his house and then move in rent an apartment? Would that free capital?

我的意思是，那会立即缓解他当前的问题。当然。

I mean, that would alleviate his current problem immediately. Sure.

他在这里说，经过一些建议指导，可能是关于被动收入——被动收入这个词我知道。

He says here, after some advice direction in terms of maybe passive income this word passive income I know.

这让人压力很大

It's stressing

快疯了。为什么它会让你这么抓狂？

nuts. Why does it drive you nuts?

这就像有一个被动收入产业化综合体，我的意思是，这确实是每个千禧一代的梦想——我要获得被动收入。

It is a there's like a passive income industrialization complex that is I mean, it is literally every millennial's dream is, I'm gonna get passive income

嗯。

Mhmm.

但它并不存在。我们谈过房产。房产是你所能想象的最不被动收入的方式。它糟透了。每次我试图出租房产，都有太多成本。

And it doesn't exist. We talked about property. Property is the least passive income you can imagine. It is awful. Every time I've tried to rent out property, there are so many costs.

一切都会出错。简直没完没了。你要支付各种费用。而人们认为存在某种神奇的被动收入。任何收入都需要付出努力。

Everything goes wrong. It's just endless. You're paying fees. And people think there's there's there's a magic passive income. Everything comes with effort.

没有不劳而获这回事。就连抢劫也需要付出努力，懂吗？没有不付出努力或不承担风险就能赚钱的方法。所以当你负债4万美元时，你怎么会认为被动收入能拯救你？

There is no such thing as returns without effort. That's but even robbery comes with effort. You know? There's there's no way of making money without effort or risking something. And so when you're $40 in debt, how on earth do you think passive income is going to rescue you?

但他在TikTok和Instagram上看到了这些。哦，我们这些三十多岁的千禧一代，现在住在里斯本，靠房子的被动收入生活。这完全是胡说八道。这是社交媒体制造的梦幻泡影，根本不存在，也永远无法把他从4万英镑的债务中拯救出来。

But he's seen that on TikTok and on Instagram. Oh, we're we're millennials in our in our thirties, and we're now living in in the in in Lisbon, and we've got passive income from our house. It's like it's bullshit. It's social social media dream that doesn't really exist, and that's never gonna save him from £40,000 debt.

被动收入可以存在。问题在于人们对它的认知。我正在为钱发愁。我没有钱。我有账单要付。

Passive income can exist. The perception of what it is is the problem. I am struggling with money. I have no money. I got bills to pay.

我需要被动收入。但事情不是这样运作的。

I need passive income. And that's not how it works.

事情不是这样运作的。

That's not how it works.

正确的运作方式是，你拿出额外的钱。我去工作，存钱并投资一部分。我把想用于投资的额外资金投入某种资产或投资品，这样就能通过持有它获得收益，而不需要实际工作，不需要去上班才能拥有它。现在让我问问你的房地产情况，因为我得一直请教你，老兄。你是自己管理房产，还是请了

The way it works is you take extra money. I'm going to work and I'm saving and investing some money. I take the extra money that I want to put my two investments, and I can put it into an asset, an investment, that can pay me for owning it without actually working, without going to work to own it. Now let me ask you about your real estate, because I gotta keep coming back to you, man. Did manage your real estate yourself, or did you have

管理人？两种方式我都试过。我既请过管理代理，也自己管理过。

a manager? I've done both. I've had management agent and a management myself.

自己管理可能完全是一场噩梦。

Managing yourself is probably a a absolute nightmare.

那太可怕了。

That's horrific.

而通过管理人管理可能同样是一场噩梦，只是换了一种形式。

And managing it with a manager was also probably a nightmare just in a different scene.

是的。而且因为你的收益率也大幅降低了。

Yeah. And because your yield is massively reduced as well.

是降低了。

It is reduced.

然后你就要权衡是选择短期租赁还是长期租赁。短期租赁存在波动性，你无法预知收益率会是多少。长期租赁则不同。你还得考虑租客的问题，他们有多糟糕以及造成的损坏。没错。

And then you take the trade off between whether you're gonna do short term lets or longer term rentals. And there's the volatility in the short term lets that you don't know what your yield's gonna be. Long term, different as well. Then you've got the tenants and how bad the tenants have been and the damage that they've done. Yep.

到最后

By the end

的时候，

of it,

你离开时会想，哦，真的吗？这根本不值得这么费劲。

you walk away and think, oh, really? It just wasn't worth the effort.

嗯，我不同意

Well, I would disagree with

是的。我的意思是，显然，人们确实可以通过房地产赚得很好。

Yeah. The other I mean, obviously, people can do really well out of property.

房地产投资的工作在于学习这个过程。当我刚开始投资房地产时，那完全是一场噩梦，而且一点也不被动，离被动差得远，简直就是噩梦。你刚开始时不知道的是，有好物业经理，也有坏物业经理。我如何找到好的物业经理？通过经历很多坏物业经理并学习这个过程。

The work in real estate investment is learning the process. When I first started investing in real estate, it was a complete nightmare, and it was not passive, anything close to passive, it was a nightmare. What you don't know when you start is that there's a good property manager, there's also a bad property manager. How do I find good property managers? By going through a lot of bad property managers and learning that process.

那是一个痛苦的过程，一个非常耗时的过程。但当你确实拥有合适的团队时，它可以变得极其被动。所以我投资房地产。

And that is a painful process, a very time consuming process. But when you do have the right team, it can be extremely passive. So I I invest in real estate.

我们说的是哪种类型的房产？

What kind of properties are we talking about?

独栋住宅和多户公寓。

Single family houses and multifamily apartments.

那你有很多这样的房产吗？

And do you have lots of them?

不算很多，但我有相当的数量。

Not lots, but I have a decent amount.

那么你的投资组合中有多少比例是用于购买房产然后出租给家庭的？

And how much of your portfolio is in buying properties and then renting them out to families?

50%。

50%.

过去十年里，你的年化回报率怎么样？

What have your returns been like over year over year for the last decade?

我看待回报的方式是，当我考虑收购一处房产时，我希望投入的资金能获得7%的现金回报率。说到回报，我不在乎资产增值。我们之前多次讨论过，如果我花10万美元买了一套房子，后来涨到20万美元，我根本不在意。我投资房地产的目标不是通过转卖获利，而是持续增加每月产生的现金流

The way I look at returns, when I look to acquire a property, is I want 7% cash on cash on the money that I put in. When I look at return, I don't care about equity. We talked about this kind of a lot that if I buy a house for, let's just call it $100,000 and it goes up to $200,000 I don't care. My goal when I acquire real estate is not to sell it and flip it for a profit. My goal is to grow the cash flow that I'm generating month after month after

每月的租金收入。

month Rental payments.

来自租金收入。

From rental payments.

不过这确实很难，因为像我这样没有太多房产租赁经验的人，搞砸的可能性——绝对很高。

It's really difficult though, because if I as someone that hasn't done a lot of property rentals and stuff like that, the chance that I'm gonna fuck up Absolutely. It's so high.

我就是那种可能搞砸的次数多到数不清的人。这确实让我损失了很多睡眠，带来了很多压力。

And I'm one of those people that probably screwed up more than more than I can count. It does cost me a lot of sleep, cost me a lot of stress.

所以你得算是个专家才行。

So you have to kind of be an expert.

你不必成为专家，

You don't have to be an expert,

但你得做到

but you gotta be

非常消极。在

really negative. In

一开始，对吧，在最初的几年里，这极其痛苦。但如今，当我去收购一处房产时，我会像研究股票或其他任何我想做的事情一样研究房产。我会做功课去研究一处房产。在当今的经济环境下，要找到那样的回报要困难得多，但并非不可能。收购房产，把钥匙交给物业经理，给他们设定目标，现在我监督经理，因为我有了一个团队，这是一门生意。

the beginning, right, for the first number of years, it was extremely painful. But today, when I go and I acquire a property, I will look for the property just like I do research on a stock or whatever I want to do. I do the work to research a property. In today's economy, it's much harder, not impossible, to find those returns. Acquire the property, hand over the keys to the property manager, give them the goals, and now I oversee the manager because I have a team now that is It's a business.

这是一门生意。就像创办初创公司。但它又不像创办初创公司。为什么？因为创办初创公司时，我在我的公司工作，而且我工作时间很长。

It's a business. It's like starting startup. But it's not like starting a startup. Why? Because starting a startup When I work in my company, I am working at my company, and I work a lot of hours.

所以我在和我的员工开会。我主持会议。我提出想法。我引领愿景。通过这种方式，我收购公司，移交钥匙，我已经设定了框架，现在你们负责执行。

So I'm meeting with my employees. I'm leading the meetings. I'm coming up with ideas. I'm leading the vision. With this, I acquire, I hand over the keys, I've already set the framework, and now you are doing the execution.

那是一个成熟的企业。我的公司在英国现在有数百名员工。

That's a mature business. With my company, there's hundreds of people in The UK right now.

那个正在创业的人。

The one that's starting that startup.

我是创始人。

I was the founder.

那么你现在做了什么？你收购了更多员工来实现这个目标。

And now what have you done? You've acquired more employees to get there.

这正是你和你物业经理所做的。

Which is what you did with your property manager.

不过处理初创公司要困难得多。一个初创公司需要发展到多大，才能取代你作为CEO来支付员工工资、赚钱，然后聘请新CEO来领导它

Much harder to deal with a startup, though. How big does a startup have to be in order to be able to displace you as the CEO to pay for the staff, to make the money, and then to hire a new CEO and to lead it the

看情况。我的朋友阿什，上周还和我在洛杉矶，他的初创公司有四个人。他现在就在洛杉矶我的房子里，和我的女朋友以及我另一个还在那里的好朋友在一起，我看到他正在泡热水浴缸。我知道这个是因为每天同一时间他都会去泡热水浴缸，然后他们会去徒步，我女朋友会给我发照片。他所做的是组建了一个四人团队。

way Depends. My friends my friend Ash, who was just with me last week in LA, has four people in his start up. He's out in LA right now in my house in LA with my girlfriend and my other best friend who's still there, and I watched he's in the hot tub right now. I know that because every day at the same time he goes in the hot tub, and then they go for this hike, and my girlfriend sends me photos. What he's done is he set up his team of four people.

他们在领英上为人们做个人品牌建设，并且他们正在英国为他远程运营。他现在正和我女朋友在山上呢。

They do personal branding on LinkedIn for people, and they're running it back for him in The UK. He's up in bloody the mountain with my girlfriend right now.

那很棒。但是有多少初创公司没能达到那个阶段呢？

That's beautiful. But how many startups don't do get there?

不。但我是

No. But I'm

说的是初创企业。

saying start up business.

他向我描述时，我心想，哦，那不过就是个生意而已。

Described it to me. I was like, oh, that's just a it's just a business.

有一个 一个

There's a a

业务。培养专业知识的学习曲线很陡峭，然后你建立系统使其可持续。

business. Steep learning curve to develop expertise, and then you put systems in place to make it sustainable.

但系统某种程度上是预设好的，你需要出租，需要一个优秀的管理者去找到

But it it the systems are kind of preestablished where you need to rent it out, need a good manager who's got to find

一个好租客，他们需要

a good tenant, they've to

支付账单。这不像初创企业，我必须创新和构思。我不需要出去构建蓝图。我是去获取一个人们已经需要、已经存在的资产，然后通过让人居住或使用来利用它，再由一个团队负责维护。

pay the bills. And it's not like a startup where I have to innovate and create an idea. I don't have to go out and build the blueprint. I am going out, I'm acquiring an asset that people already need that's already existing, and then I'm going to put used to it by having somebody live there or use it, and then there's a team just maintaining it.

那么关于被动收入，你认为它真实吗？具体来说，就住房这一点，你建议人们购买租赁房产并通过收取租金作为收入来源吗？

So what do you think then in terms of passive income, and is it real? But specifically, let's do this point of housing. Do you advise people to buy rental properties and then generate rental fees from them as a source of income?

嗯，你刚听贾斯珀里亚说了这需要多少工作。所以我通常不建议人们进入这个行业，就因为学习曲线太陡峭。不是每个人都适合，也不是每个人都有资本。所以如果你刚开始想赚钱，我认为股市是最流动、最容易入门的地方。

Well, you just heard Jasperia of how much work it would take. So I I generally don't advise people to to get into that business just because of the steep learning curve. And not everyone is built for that. And not everyone has capital for that. So if you were just trying to get started and actually make some money, I just think the stock market is the most liquid and easiest place to get started.

我个人租房，我计划继续租房，而是将可能用于房贷的差额投资。我认为在沿海地区，如旧金山、纽约，我想迈阿密也是，这样做可能实际上更合理。

I personally rent, and I I plan on renting and just instead investing the difference of what my mortgage payment might be in my my rent. I think in on the coasts, San Francisco, New York, I think Miami, that might actually be the more reasonable thing to do.

我昨天刚读到《纽约时报》的一篇文章，说美国现在租房子的百万富翁比以往任何时候都多，从2019年到2023年2月期间数量增长了三倍。短短几年间，百万富翁们选择租房的比例达到了历史新高。这是怎么回事？

I was reading a New York Times article that just came out yesterday, and it said more millionaires than ever are renting in The United States, and that it's tripled between 2019 and 02/2023. So in just a couple of years, millionaires are choosing to rent more than ever before. What's going on?

我猜很多百万富翁可能住在沿海地区，因为他们投资较多或者有高薪工作，在旧金山、西雅图、纽约、洛杉矶这些地方买房对他们来说可能有点负担不起。

My guess would be a lot of the millionaires are probably living on the coast because they invest a lot or they have higher paying jobs, and maybe it's slightly unaffordable for them to buy a house in, say, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles.

《纽约时报》的文章里说，他们选择的是灵活性和流动性，而不是所有权，而且不想被房产所有权带来的麻烦所困扰，包括支付房地产税和保险费，尤其是在佛罗里达和加州这样的市场，那里自然灾害频发。

In the New York Times article, it says they're choosing flexibility and liquidity over ownership, and they don't want to be bothered with the inconveniences of homeownership, which includes paying a real estate tax and insurance, especially in markets like Florida and California, where we're seeing a lot of natural catastrophes.

是的。美国是个特别的市场，因为持有房地产要交很高的房地产税。

Yeah. So The US is a peculiar market because there's this high real estate tax in owning real estate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你的回报一直在被这些税费削减。不管是1.5%还是2%，总之有这笔支出。此外还有其他房地产税。利率一直很高，而且已经持续一段时间了。

So all the time, your returns are being reduced by that you pay. So whether it's like 1.5 or 2%, whatever the number is, there's that. And then there's the other real estate taxes that come on top of it. Interest rates have been high. They've been high for a while now.

所以很多人仅仅因为利息支付就被市场拒之门外。但现在，由于房贷还款的存在，与租房的区别在于很多房东并不需要覆盖房贷成本，因为他们已经全款拥有房产，所以你能拿到更便宜的租金。这跟价格有关。美国经济在普通民众层面还没有特别强劲。华尔街表现很好，但普通老百姓的生活并没有改善。

So a lot of people have just been priced out of the market just in interest payments. But now, because mortgage payments are here, the difference is actually with the rental is a lot of rental people aren't trying to cover mortgage costs because they own the property outright, so you get cheaper rates. So it's to do with price. The US economy has not been super strong yet at Main Street level. Wall Street's had a great period of time, but Main Street hasn't.

所以人们还没有多余的收益。我认为这是其中一个因素，但可能也是一个更大的趋势。

So people don't have excess earnings yet. So I think it's a function of that, but it's probably a larger trend as well.

而且我认为还需要了解机会在哪里。我的意思是，租房有很多灵活性。我最终在2025年买了房子，在此之前我一直是租房的。

And I think also it's understanding what the opportunities are. Mean, there's a lot of flexibility with renting. I mean, I finally bought a house in 2025. I've been renting before this.

所以你今年买了第一套房产和家人一起住？

So you bought your first property to live in with your family this year?

对，是的。我自住是在2025年。

To from yes. Me to live in was 2025.

为什么没有早点买呢？

Why didn't you do it sooner?

嗯，因为租房的时候，我可以把资金用来购买其他租赁房产，进行其他投资，所以把这些钱用在别处对我来说更合理。

Well, because when I was renting, I could take the capital and buy other rental properties, buy other investments, so it was it made more sense for me to put that money to work somewhere else.

那么，把买房作为创造财富的手段是个糟糕的主意吗？

So is buying a property as a means to generate wealth a terrible idea?

作为一种为自己购买居住的手段，或者

As a means to generate to buy for yourself to live in or to

嗯，但是，你知道，当我长大的时候，每个人都告诉我，你要赚钱，找份工作，然后申请房贷。所以，就像，那就是你该做的事。

Well, but, you know, when you when I grew up, everyone said to me that you get money, get a job, then you get a mortgage. And so, like, that's what you did.

这是你能给别人的最糟糕的建议之一

That's one of the worst pieces of advice you can give somebody

但这就是每个人都在做的。这仍然是绝大多数人正在做的事情。我知道这一点，因为我看到我那些没有像我一样从我的兄弟、财务顾问和会计师那里得到相同财务建议的朋友们。他们一有点钱，第一件事就是去申请房贷。那是因为他们的父母就是这么做的，而且大家一直都是这么做的。

But that's what everyone is doing. That's still what the vast majority of people are doing. And I know that because I look at I look at my friends that don't have the same financial advice that I have from, like, my brother and my financial advisers, my accountants. And the first thing they do when they get a bit of money is they go and get a mortgage. And that's because that's what their parents did and that's what everyone's always done.

这是个好主意吗，Rahul？

Is that a good idea, Rahul?

既是也不是。不。我认为如今，考虑到经济是如何设置的，别忘了，当我24、25岁时，我在一家投行工作。我不是那里薪水最高的人。我当时才25岁。

Yes and no. No. I think these days, with how the economy's being set up, don't forget, when I was 24, 25, I was working in an investment bank. I wasn't the highest paid guy there. I was a 25 year old.

在伦敦买我的第一套公寓时，价格是我收入的三点五倍。现在同样的公寓和同样的收入相比，价格是收入的12倍。所以现在租房更有意义，你不如去投资。购买所有你认为会带来回报的东西。但房子，主要住所，不是投资，永远都不会是。

And to buy my first flat in London was three and a half times my income. That equivalent flat and the equivalent income is 12 times. So rent makes much more sense now, and you might as well invest. Buy all the stuff that you think will drive returns. But a house, a primary house, is not an investment, never will be.

因为一旦你买下它，就不会卖掉它。你不会实现那部分资产净值。也许你的孩子会（如果你有孩子的话）。所以它不算投资，但可以是对你未来的投资。

Because once you buy it, you don't sell it. You don't realize that equity. Maybe your kids do if you've got kids. So it's not an investment, but it can be an investment in your future.

但这儿好像有点视觉错觉。因为当我考虑租房时，我会想，嗯，那笔钱我再也见不到了。但买房的话，我是在往里投钱，就像我把钱存进储蓄罐一样。所以逻辑上，租房当然是浪费钱。钱给了别人，再也回不来了。

But there's, like, some optical illusion going on here. Because when I think about renting, I go, well, that money, I never see it again. But with buying a house, I'm paying into it, so it's like me depositing the money in a piggy bank. So, logically, of course, renting is wasting money. It goes to someone else and never see it again.

但这并不完全正确。如果你今天出去，我买一栋50万美元的房子。我付20%的首付。所以我付了10万美元首付。贷款40万美元。

But that's not exactly true. If you go out today, I buy a half a million dollar house. I put 20% down. So I put a $100,000 down. I finance $400,000.

我拿到6.5%的抵押贷款。三十年期，我的月供是2500美元。现在我在做什么？我不是在租房。我不是在把钱给房东。

I get a 6.5% mortgage. Thirty years, my mortgage payment is $2,500 a month. Now what am I doing? I'm not renting. I'm not giving money to my landlord.

我在积累房产净值。但银行也懂同样的游戏。他们让你的抵押贷款前期负担重。这是什么意思？当我支付2500美元时，并不是12.5美元用于本金以积累房屋净值，12.5美元用于利息。

I'm building equity in my property. But banks also understand the same game. They front load your mortgage. What does that mean? When I pay $2,500 it's not $12.50 dollars going to principal to build equity in my house and $12.50 dollars for interest.

本金是什么？是为自己买回房子。不是一半对一半。几乎全是利息。事实上，如果你今天以6.5%的抵押贷款利率买50万美元的房子，付20%首付，在抵押贷款的前二十年，超过一半的还款会直接作为利息进入银行家的口袋。

It's Principal being? Buying your house back for yourself. It's not half and half. It's almost all interest. In fact, if you go on and buy the half a million dollar house today at a six and a half percent mortgage, 20% down, for the first twenty years of that mortgage, more than half of that payment is going to go directly to your banker's pocket with interest.

直到第21年，你2500美元的月供才有一半会用于积累房屋净值。所以前期全是利息，零净值，然后慢慢这样变化。需要二十年才能达到那个点。而在这个过程中，对很多人（不是所有人）来说会发生的是：利率下降了，我需要一些额外资金，那我怎么做？我重新贷款。

It's not until year '21 that half of your $2,500 payment is going to go towards equity in your house. So it's all interest, zero equity, and then slowly moves like this. It takes twenty years to get there. And then what happens along the way for a lot of people, not everybody, for a lot of people, is along the way, interest rates go down, I need some extra money, so what do I do? I refinance.

一旦我重新贷款，那个分期偿还计划就重新开始了，所以现在我再次支付所有这些利息，而我真正在积累的资产净值并不在那里。这就是为什么我说买房不是坏事。我认为如果你买房很棒，但不要像你说的那样对待你的房子。不要把你的房子当作投资。把它当作一项开销。

As soon as I refinance, that amortization starts all over again, and so now I'm paying all this interest again, and my real equity that I'm building is not there. This is why I say it's not bad to buy a house. I think it's great if you buy a house, but don't treat your house like like you said. Don't treat your house like an investment. Treat it like an expense.

买它是因为你能负担得起，因为你想要它，因为你准备好了，但不是因为你会因此积累财富。

Buy it because you can afford it, because you want it, because you're ready, but not because you're gonna build wealth.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

我同意他们俩的观点。我认为，你知道，房子是一种不容易出售的资产，所以这也是件好事。比如，如果你有10万美元可以投入股市，或者10万美元用作首付，而你知道自己是个非常情绪化的人，股市一跌2%你就会卖出，那可能还是买房更好。对吧？你不可能划两下就卖掉房子。

I agree with both their takes. I think that, you know, a home is an asset that you can't sell very easily, so that's also a good thing. Like, if you have a $100,000 to put into stocks or $100,000 to put on a down payment, and you know you were just such an emotional person that the moment that the stock market goes down 2% you're selling, probably better to buy a house. Right? You can't really sell your house in the tap of two swipes.

但就投资而言，它通常对人们来说远不止是投资。他们买房是出于心理原因、情感原因或安全感。所以我会说，如果你有兴趣买房并且能负担得起，那就很棒。

But in terms of an investment, it's like usually it's much more than investment to people. They buy them for psychological reason or emotional reasons or the sense of security. So I would just say, like, if you're interested in buying a house and you can afford it, then that's great.

是的。我们实际上来看看最好的情况。就像，我想你提到过这个。我花50万美元买了一套房子。它升值到了100万美元。

Yeah. And let's actually go with the best case scenario. So, like, I think you were mentioning this. I buy a house for, let's call it, half a million dollars. It goes up in value to a million dollars.

天啊，我发财了。对吧？嗯，虽然这是看不见的，但没错，我可以做现金再融资，但现在我得支付所有那些费用。但问题就在这里。

Oh my god. I'm rich. Right? Well, it's invisible, but but yeah, I could take the cash out refinance, but now I had to pay all that. But here's the problem.

你现在拥有一栋价值百万美元的房子。这意味着什么？你得为这栋百万豪宅缴纳房产税，所以你要支付高得多的税款。你还得为这栋房子购买保险。现在如果你把这房子传给子女，固然很好。

You now own a million dollar house. What does that mean? You have to pay property taxes on a million dollar house, so you got to pay a lot more property taxes. You have to pay insurance on a million dollar house. And so now if you pass this house down to your kids, great.

他们得到了一栋百万豪宅。但如果他们负担不起百万豪宅的房产税或保险，现在他们就不得不卖掉它。

They got a million dollar house. But if they can't afford the property taxes or the insurance on a million dollar house, now they have to sell.

保险是这些非常隐蔽的成本之一，人们往往意识不到，特别是如果你住在像德克萨斯或俄克拉荷马这样的飓风多发区，突然之间，你的房屋保险费用在已经要交的税之上变得令人望而却步。人们不会想到这一点。

Insurance is one of these really hidden costs that you don't realize, particularly if, like, if you're in a hurricane area like Texas or Oklahoma or something, suddenly your house insurance costs are prohibitive on top of the taxes you pay. People don't think about that.

所以，乔什，但你是说通过比特币，对吧？

So, Josh, but you're saying by Bitcoin, right?

全押进去。你离拥有一切只差一个币。

Go all in. You're 1 coin away from everything.

零成本。他们刚刚点击了那个。剪辑了那个。是的。它已经病毒式传播了。

Zero cost. They've just clicked that. Clipped that. Yeah. It's gone viral.

但在座的没有人会把买房当作财富创造策略。不会。在那之前你们都会做很多别的事情。

But none no one at this table would adopt buying a house as a wealth creation strategy. No. You would all do many things before then.

是的，没错。

Yeah. Correct.

那是不是几乎排在清单的最末尾？

Would that be almost at the bottom of the list of things?

这取决于我们讨论的是哪个年龄段的人群。如果你是那种，

It's part of it's age cohort who we're talking about. If you're kind of,

嗯哼。

like Mhmm.

38岁左右。嗯哼。你有个孩子。你的学生贷款债务差不多还清了。你过得还行。

38 years old. Mhmm. You've got a kid. You kinda cleared up some of your student debt payments. You're okay.

这种保障性的东西没问题，但它不是投资。任何更年轻的人，绝对不要考虑。

That security thing is fine, but it's not an investment. Anybody younger, just no.

有没有...如果你纯粹从美元投资回报的角度来说，我可能会把它在清单上的排名放得更低一些，对于

Is there If you're just talking pure dollar investment returns, I probably would rank it lower on the list for

当然。

sure.

是的。那么有没有所谓的良性债务呢？因为一开始我记得你说要清理债务。是否存在良性债务？

Yeah. Is there any such thing as good debt? Because I remember at the start, you said clear up your debts. Is there is there a good debt?

有人通过债务赚大钱，但也有人因债务损失惨重。

People make a lot of money on debt, but people lose a lot of money on debt.

我尽量完全避开债务。是的，我认为如果债务能为你工作，你能利用那笔钱赚更多钱，那确实存在良性债务。但很多人，你知道，杠杆伴随着巨大风险。我认识很多人因为承担了所谓的'良性债务'而血本无归。

I just try to stay away from debt altogether. Yeah. I mean, I think that, yeah, there is such a thing as like good debt if it's working for you and you're able to leverage that money to make more money. But a lot of people, you know, with leverage comes a lot of risk. And I know a lot of people got wiped out because they took on quote unquote good debt.

对吧？

Right?

什么是杠杆？

What's leverage?

杠杆就是，比如在Jaspreet的例子中，你支付房屋价格的20%作为首付，剩余80%通过抵押贷款支付。这在技术上就是资金杠杆，因为你用10万美元的资金，却获得了一个价值50万美元的资产。如果你的房子从50万美元升值到100万美元，你获得了50万美元的收益，但你只投入了10万美元。所以从技术上讲，你的利润或回报率要高得多。这是通过你承担的债务实现的杠杆效应。

Leverage isso for example, in Jaspreet's example, you put 20% down on a house, and you take an 80%, the rest of it, as a mortgage. That's technically leveraging your money because you're taking the 100 ks that you have, and now you're affording an asset that's worth $500,000 If your home goes from $500,000 to $1,000,000 you have a $500,000 gain, but you only put in $100,000 So technically, your profit or your return percentage is much higher. It was leveraged by that debt that you carried.

嗯，我觉得大多数人并不知道他们可以利用自己的加密货币。

Well, I don't think most people know that they can leverage their crypto.

没错。你可以用它来借款。

That's right. You can borrow against it.

所以任何人都可以。你不需要去银行。

So anyone can. You don't need to go to a bank.

是的。你可以在所谓的去中心化金融中即时完成。或者有很多公司提供这种服务，你可以用你的资产作抵押借款。你甚至可以用数字艺术品来借款。我是个狂热的数字艺术收藏家。

No. You could do it instantaneously in what's known as decentralized finance. Or there's there's a whole bunch of companies that do this where you can borrow against your assets. You can even do it against digital art. I'm a huge digital art collector.

就像艺术品市场一样，你实际上可以根据艺术品的价值去借款，可能是其价值的50%。

Much like the art market, you can actually go and borrow against the value of the art, maybe 50% against the value.

让我用超级简单的方式解释一下。假设我是一个从未买过比特币，但正在考虑可能买一个，同时又希望有点现金的人。

Let me explain this to me super simply. If I as if for someone that's, like, never even bought Bitcoin before and is thinking about potentially buying one, but they would also like some way to have a little bit of cash.

听着。我，我不喜欢这样。

Look. I I don't like it.

好的。

Okay.

我理解原因，但问题在于你持有这样一项资产。它波动性很大，非常不稳定，而你用它作为抵押借入一定金额。你不知道它是否会跌破那个价值导致被清算，那样你就会失去所有的比特币。整个游戏规则是：如果你处于长期牛市，只要别失去对你代币的控制权。

I understand why, but the issue is you've got an asset that does this. It's volatile. It's very volatile, and you're borrowing a certain amount against it. And you don't know whether it falls below that value and you get liquidated, then you've lost all of your Bitcoin. The whole game is if you're in a secular bull market, just don't lose control of your tokens.

自始至终完全持有你的比特币，而你冒着搞砸这一切的风险，就为了额外5%或10%的收益。

Own own your Bitcoin all the way through, and you have a risk of screwing that up for the extra 5% income or 10% income.

在什么

At what

在以太坊中，情况完全不同，因为你是通过质押获得收益。所以你能自然地从网络中获得奖励。

In in Ethereum, very different world because you're staking. So you're getting naturally rewarded in the network.

质押是什么意思？

What does that mean, staking?

这意味着在比特币中，矿工实际上是通过解决算法计算来获得奖励。而在以太坊、Solana、SUI等其他大型区块链中，你基本上是通过保护网络安全来获得奖励。所以你质押代币来保护网络，因为越多人建立这种网络连接，你就能获得报酬。目前在以太坊，收益率大约是4%。

What it means is in in Bitcoin, you actually get miners basically get rewarded for solving the the algorithm, the computation. In Ethereum and Solana and SUI and the other big blockchains, you basically get rewarded for securing the network. So you stake your tokens to secure the network because the more people then have this network connectivity between them, and you get paid for that. In Ethereum right now, it's probably 4% yield.

好的。那我就试着用十岁小孩能懂的方式来总结一下。

Okay. So just I'll try and summarize this like a ten year old.

但那没有风险。你并没有在其中获得杠杆。

But there's no risk in that. You're not getting leverage in that.

所以如果我选择购买以太坊——这是一种加密货币，我可以把我价值10万美元的以太坊，在手机上点几下就能操作。我可以按一个按钮把它转移去进行质押。当它被质押时，我基本上是在用我的以太坊来保障网络安全，让整个系统更安全以便正常运行。作为回报，他们每个月会支付给我4%的收益。

I so if I choose to buy Ethereum, which is a form of cryptocurrency, I can take my $100,000 of of Ethereum, and on my phone, in a couple of clicks, I can move it. I can press a button and move it so that it is staked. And when when it's staked, I am basically using my Ethereum to secure the network, to make the whole thing more secure so it can run properly. And in return, they'll give me 4% of it as a payment every month.

呃，不是月息4%，而是按月支付。按月支付。

Well, not 4% a month, but Monthly payments. Monthly payments.

是年化4%。对。所以你可以从加密货币上获得利息？基本上是的。

Of 4% annualized. Yeah. So you can you can get interest on your crypto? Yes. Essentially.

然后如果你更精通一点，更激进一点，还有收益增强产品。我们之前聊过高收益银行账户。加密货币领域也有高收益版本，收益率最高能达到30%。但这时候你就在承担风险了。

And then if you're a little more sophisticated, a little bit racier, there are then yield enhancements. So we talked about high yield bank accounts. There's high yield versions in crypto, and you can get up to 30%. But now you're taking risks.

我还可以用我的以太坊进行抵押贷款。我其实以前做过这个，现在不做了。但我当时有1000个以太坊，我把它——

And I can also loan against my Ethereum. So I actually did this at one point. I don't do it anymore. But I I had a thousand Ethereum, and I and I put it I

拿了一个还是一千个 一千个以太坊。

took a or a thousand A thousand Ethereum.

是啊。天啊我去。是啊。知道吗。其实我前段时间转投比特币了，就几个月前，但时机可能不太好。

Yeah. Fucking Gosh. Yeah. Know. I actually I switched into Bitcoin a little while ago, so a couple of months back, but probably bad timing.

这就是为什么梅兰妮 那真是

This is why Melanie That was

糟糕的时机。你

terrible timing. You

应该给我打电话的我知道。妈的。但是，你也知道，这些人都是情绪化的。我当时用它做了抵押贷款，有段时间我借了几百万美元，用我的以太坊作抵押买了些其他加密资产，让我惊讶的是我不用打电话给任何人。不用联系银行。

should've called me I know. Fuck. But, you know, this people are emotional. I had a loan against it, so I borrowed a couple of million dollars at at one point to buy some more other crypto assets against my Ethereum, and it was surprising to me that I didn't have to call anybody. I didn't have to ring a bank.

我只需在手机上点几个简单的按钮。我那一千个以太坊，就成功立刻拿到了几百万美元现金直接打给我。但我选择不这么做，因为市场波动太大了。

I could just click a couple of simple buttons on my phone. And this thousand Ethereum I had, I managed to get a couple of million dollars paid straight away in cash straight to me. But I chose not to do that because the markets are super volatile.

但这确实是极其高效、有效的方式 如果你比如说你有价值10万美元的比特币，一个比特币，用它作抵押借2万美元

But but it is incredibly efficient, effective way of people if you were to let's say you had a $100,000 of Bitcoin, one Bitcoin, to borrow $20,000 against it

是的。

Yeah.

那风险并不大。

That's not very risky.

或者用它抵押借5000美元。或者5000。

Or $5,000 against it. Or 5,000.

不管怎样，风险都很小。或者如果你持有可以质押的不同币种，风险非常非常低。就像借钱给美国政府，也就是借给以太坊政府——以太坊网络。这是相当不错的增值方式

Whatever it is, it's not very risky. Or if you're in a different currency where you can stake it, very little risk, very, very little risk. It's like lending to the US government, I. E, lending to the to the government of Ethereum, the Ethereum network. That's a pretty decent way of of of enhancing

用股票很难做到这一点。如果你有5000美元的股票，很难用它们获得贷款。不是吗？是的。通常来说，我的意思是，当我年轻时终于攒了些钱，买了1万美元的Facebook股票后，我找不到简单的方法用我的Facebook股票抵押贷款。

It's hard to do that with stocks. It's hard to get a loan against your stocks if you have $5,000 of stocks. Isn't it? Yeah. It's typical I mean, when I was when I was younger and I had I bought $10,000 of Facebook stock when I finally got some money, I I couldn't think I couldn't see a simple way of taking a loan against my Facebook stock.

直到后来我在欧洲有了私人投资银行，他们才问：'您需要以蓝筹股价值的50%作为贷款吗？'

It wasn't until later when I had a private investment bank in Europe that my private investment bank were like, do you want 50% of your blue chip stocks as a loan?

是的。这通常可能只面向资产更多的人。但我想对质押收益稍微提出一点不同看法。我理解这4%几乎是零风险的，但总是存在以太坊价格波动的风险，对吧？

Yeah. It's probably usually reserved for people with more assets. But I do wanna push back a little bit on the staking yield. I do understand it's 4% virtually risk free, but there are is are always gonna be risks with, you know, the price of Ethereum. Right?

所以，就是说，你是用以太坊来获得报酬的。以太坊。所以这就是以太坊。关键点。对吧？

So, like, you're getting paid In Ethereum. Ethereum. And so this is Ethereum. Key thing. Right?

你的风险在于你所质押的货币本身。

Is your your risk is the is the currency you are staking in.

所以如果以太坊下跌50%，那么你的以太坊——抱歉，你的质押资产的法币价值可能会下降，相比之下，如果你选择4%高收益储蓄账户，它有FDIC保险支持，几乎是...

So if Ethereum goes down 50%, then your fiat value of Ethereum sorry, of your stake could go down versus, you know, if you're getting a 4% high yield savings account, it's backed by the FDIC. It's virtually this

而且还有另一个风险，以太坊实际上是按年质押的。哦，我明白了。而且大部分是通过像Leidow这样的几家企业进行的，它们正在转向短期质押。所以存在期限错配，这带来了一些风险因素。

And there there is another risk as well as Ethereum is actually annual staking. Oh, I see. And most of it is being done via a few businesses like Leidow, which are turning into short term staking. And so there's a duration mismatch that has some elements of risk in.

关于...抱歉，您请说，先生。

What about Sorry. Go ahead, sir.

没关系。好的。

It's okay. Okay.

我本来想问，你什么时候能拿到报酬？以太坊质押是每月支付，还是按年支付？

I was gonna say, when do you get paid? The with the Ethereum stake, you get paid every month, or do you get paid on the year?

我当时是每月领工资。

I was getting paid monthly.

每月？好吧。

Monthly? Okay.

那养老金呢？退休金。退休金。在英国，我们称之为pension。我想你们那边叫401k吧。

What about pensions? Retirement. Retirement. So in The UK, call it a pension. I think you guys call it a four zero one k.

但是

But

在全世界范围内，这其实都差不多。至少在整个西方世界是这样。如果我25岁或30岁左右，我是否应该开始缴纳养老金，作为未来积累财富的一种方式？这是个明智的选择吗？

over across the world, it's pretty much the same. Across the Western world, anyway. If I'm 25 or 30 or whatever, should I should I be paying into my pension as a way to generate to make myself wealthy someday? Is that a smart idea?

我没有401k，也没有IRA。但人们喜欢这些账户并且它们对某些人有效的原因是，这些都是税收递延账户，意味着我可以把钱存进去，选择现在或以后交税。钱会在里面增值，直到取出来时才需要缴税。但这里有几个问题。

I don't have a four zero one k. I don't have an IRA. But the reason why people like these accounts and why they can work for some people is because they are tax deferred accounts, meaning I can put my money in, whether I pay taxes now or later. The money will then sit there, grow, and I don't pay taxes until I pull my money out. But there's a couple problems.

第一个问题是我对资金的投资方式控制权非常有限。也许这将来会改变。特朗普政府已经签署了一项关于401k的新行政令，可能会改变401k的投资选项，但目前尚未实施。你的选择非常有限，主要是共同基金，而且很多还要收取费用。

Problem number one is I have very little control over my money can be invested. Maybe this will change. The Trump administration has passed a new executive order on 401s to change which you could potentially invest in 401s, but that hasn't happened yet. You have very limited options. They're primarily just mutual funds, and many of them have a fee.

我认为NerdWallet说过，92%的美国人不知道401(k)的费用是什么。所以如果你不知道自己的401(k)费用是多少，这是提醒你去查看费用比率，你应该了解这一点。你的选择非常有限。你必须支付费用，这意味着华尔街的某个人会一直拿钱直到你退休。第二，我要到60岁，也就是59岁半才能动用这笔钱。

I I think NerdWallet said 92% of Americans don't know what the four zero one ks fees are. So if you don't know what your four zero one ks fee is, this is your notice to go check what the expense ratio is, and you should know that. So you have very limited options. You're going to have to pay a fee, which means somebody on Wall Street is going to be paid forever until you retire. Number two, I can't touch this money until I'm 60 years old, 59.

如果我提前动用，就必须支付10%的罚款。第三，整个讨论的重点是你这样做是为了税收优惠，但就像我们之前谈到的，在401(k)之外你也可以获得很多税收优惠，这就是为什么我不喜欢它。但并非对所有人都如此。对某些人来说，这可能是个很好的选择，因为你的雇主可能会说，我们会提供3%的匹配。所以如果你投资，比如说，向你的401(k)投入3000美元，并且他们100%匹配，他们可能也会向你的401(k)投入3000美元，但你也面临着同样的风险和担忧。

If I do, I have to pay a 10% penalty. And number three, the whole discussion is you're doing this for tax benefits, but kind of like we talked about earlier, there's a lot of tax benefits that you can get outside of a four zero one ks, which is why for me, I don't like it. But not everybody. For some people, it can be a great place because your employer might say, We're going to give you a 3% match. So if you invest, let's just say, a $3,000 into your four zero one k and and they match it a 100%, they might also just throw $3,000 into your four zero one k, but you have the same risks and concerns along

一路走来。

the way.

说实话，我认为大多数人甚至不知道养老金是什么。我觉得我们在缴纳，但并不真正了解它是如何运作的。前几天我在X上看到一个非常有趣的辩论，有人（一个家伙）说在英国，我一生都在缴纳养老金。哦，所以我应该得到它，等我准备好了它就会在那里。

I don't think most people even know what a pension is, to be honest. I think we pay into it, but we don't really know what's working. And I saw this really interesting debate take place on X the other day where someone was a guy was saying in The UK, I've paid into my pension my whole life. Oh. So I deserve it, and it'll be there when I'm ready.

然后下面的所有人都在告诉他，顺便说一句，它不像你可以砸开的存钱罐。你缴纳到养老金中的钱被用来支付那些在你工作时需要养老金的人。

And then everyone underneath it was telling him that, by the way, it's not like some piggy bank that you get to break open. The money you paid into a pension was used to pay for the people that needed a pension when you were working.

所以你是在谈论美国的社保。作为美国的雇员，你必须缴纳社保。所以是你收入的6.2%。你的税负很重。你必须为你赚的钱缴纳所得税，然后还有社保税。

So you're talking about Social Security in The United States. As an employee in The United States, you have to pay into Social Security. So 6.2% of your income. So you have a lot of taxes. You're going to have to pay income taxes on what you make, and then you have Social Security tax.

所以对于你的收入，除了所得税之外，你还要单独支付其中的6.2%作为社保税，但这6.2%是进入这个社保基金的。然后你的雇主也会向这个基金支付6.2%。理论上，这笔钱应该会增长和复利。这样，当你退休时，你就有了这个退休基金，它会每年支付给你。你没有选择权。

So on your income, you're going to pay 6.2% of that separately from your income tax, but 6.2% into this Social Security fund. And then your employer is also going to pay 6.2% into this fund. This money, in theory, is supposed to grow and compound. That way, when you retire, you have this retirement fund that's going to pay you every single year. You don't get to choose.

我的意思是，你可以选择何时取出这笔钱，但你无法对它做任何处理。政府将会负责管理。是的。这就是当今美国资金即将耗尽的原因。为什么？

I mean, you can choose when you pull it out, but you don't get to do anything with it. The government's gonna be in charge. Yeah. This is what is running out of money in The United States today. Why?

因为现在二三十岁和四十多岁正在缴纳社保的人，这些钱并不是为他们自己的退休准备的。它是在为今天退休的人支付他们的社会保障福利。

Because people that are in their twenties, thirties, and forties that are paying into it today, it's not paying for their retirement. It's paying for the people who are retiring today to pay for their Social Security benefits.

这正是人们不理解的地方。他们以为自己是在往一个存钱罐里存钱，等到退休后就可以打开它，这笔钱会供养他们余生。我之前研究过关于养老金的最大误解，第一个误解就是：一旦退休，我的养老金就是终身有保障的钱。

And that's what people don't understand. They think they're paying into a piggy bank that they get to crack open, and that will pay for them as long as they live for the rest of their life. I was looking at the biggest misconceptions around pensions, and the first one was that my pension is guaranteed money for the entirety of my life once I retire.

嗯，这话有一定道理。至少在美国，保证你能领取社会保障金直到去世——这是条款中明确规定的。但他们从不告诉你、也没有任何星号标注的部分是：支票的实际价值会有多少。实际情况是这样的：人们缴纳社保基金时，以为这笔钱将能支撑他们的退休生活。

Well, there there is some truth to that. The part in in The United States, at least, that you are guaranteed what what the wording is that you're going to get the Social Security until you pass away. But the part that they never tell you, and there's no asterisk about this either, is how much that value of the check will be. So here's what's going on. People are paying into the social security fund thinking that they're going to be able to fund their retirement.

历史上每位财务顾问都说退休保障是个三脚凳：你有401k计划（个人退休账户），你有个人储蓄，然后你还有社会保障。社保是强制缴纳的，除非你是投资者（投资收入无需缴纳社保税），否则不能选择退出。你要一直缴纳到退休年龄，然后才能取出这笔钱。

Every financial advisor historically has said that retirement is a three legged stool. You have your four zero one ks, your personal retirement. You have your own personal savings, and then you have social security. Well, you pay into social security by force because you don't get to opt out of it unless you are an investor. You don't have to pay your social security income or social security taxes on your investment income, but you pay into this until you hit retirement age and then you get to pull this money out.

现在政府的社会保障资金即将耗尽，但人们误解了这一点，他们说'哦，这意味着政府不再支付社保了'。这不是真的。他们仍然会支付，但会通过印钞来支付——这正是你一直在讨论的。所以好啊，他们会给你一张面额更大的支票。

Well, the government is running out of social security money, but people misconstrue that because they say, Oh, that means the government's no longer going to pay social security. That's not true. They'll still pay it, but they'll just print their way to pay it, which is what you've been talking about. So great. They're giving you a bigger check.

问题在于：这张面额更大的支票买不到那么多东西。所以没错，根据美国政府的说法（假设他们不违约），你会收到社保支票。只是它买不到你原先想象的那么多东西了。

The problem with that bigger check is that bigger check can't buy you as much stuff. So yeah, based off what the United States government says, assuming that they don't default, you're going to get the Social Security check. It's just not going to be able to buy you as much as you thought before.

其他常见的误解包括：人们认为雇主缴纳的养老金足够覆盖整个退休生活，以为它和储蓄账户一样可以随时支取，以为用完后政府会兜底，并且认为等到年纪大了再考虑也不迟。

The other big misconceptions are that people think their employer is putting enough in to cover their full retirement. They think it's the same as a savings account. They think they can access it whenever they like. The government will cover them when it runs out. And I don't need to think about it until I'm older.

最后还有人误以为养老金账户是免税的。

And lastly, my pension pot is tax free.

大约二十年前发生的重要转变，是从固定收益计划转向固定缴费计划。以前在福特或美航等公司，退休后能终身领取最终年薪的60%。但由于人均寿命延长等因素，这些养老金计划纷纷破产，于是改为固定缴费模式。

So the big shift that happened around twenty years ago was a shift from what's known as defined benefit to divine contribution. So defined benefit used to work for Ford or American Airlines or whatever company. You retired, you got 60% of your final year's salary forever. That was bankrupting all of these pension plans because people were living longer, all the other stuff. And so they changed it to define contribution.

本质上就是投入多少资金加上投资收益。但存在管理费，可能委托了不靠谱的管理人，或者当被问及'要投资债券还是股票'时选择了收益较低的债券。最终美国婴儿潮一代的401(k)账户平均余额据我所知只有10万美元左右。

Basically, you get out what you put in plus the investment returns. But there's fees, maybe you didn't give it to a good manager. Maybe you didn't know when they said, well, do you want to put it in bonds or equities? You're like, bonds, and it didn't grow as much or whatever it was. And in the end, you're just not sure that you're the average four zero one ks in The United States for a baby boomer, I believe, is about $100,000

哪个年龄段？婴儿潮一代？65岁左右吗？我觉得现在应该有20万美元左右。

What age? A baby boomer? Like 65? I think it's right now around $200,000

哦，20万啊，好吧。

Oh, $200 Okay, fine.

但这根本不够退休。

But it's not enough to retire.

200美元不足以退休。每年只有20美元，十年也就这么多。美国养老金体系里的钱实在太少了，这些人根本没有希望。几年前有个关于退休危机的视频爆红网络，就是为了解释这个问题。对于养老金领取者、婴儿潮一代、千禧一代来说，这根本无解，每个人都必须在这个体系内做出改变来想办法。

200 is not enough to retire. There's ten years of $20 a year. So there's so little money in The US pension system particularly that there is no hope for these people. And this whole video on this called the retirement crisis became a huge viral success years ago, just to explain it. There is no way out of this for the pensioners, the boomers, all the millennials, and everyone's gonna have to change within this to to figure this stuff out.

我想你今天早先说过。你当时在谈论庞氏骗局。看，这里就有一个。但没人愿意这么说，可每个人都在不断投钱维持这个体系，它唯一能运行的方式就是靠人们持续投入。问题在于流入的资金不够了。

I think you said it earlier today. You were talking about a Ponzi scheme. Here, you have one. But nobody wants to say that, but everyone is paying in to keep funding this thing, but the only way it's running is because people are paying it in. The problem is there's not enough money coming in.

因为，还记得吗，记得我们一开始讨论的人口结构问题？年轻人越来越少了。

Because Because the remember the remember we talked about at the beginning, the demographics? There's less and less young people.

年轻人越来越少是因为我们生的孩子越来越少了。

There's less and less young people because we're having less babies.

但退休人口却极其庞大。而且这会永远持续下去，因为我们还在生孩子，这些孩子二十年后就会成为劳动力。现在的婴儿就是二十年后的工人。我们可以向前推算，这个问题不会停止。

But there's tons of these retired people. So and this keeps going in perpetuity because we're having babies, so that's workers in twenty years' time. The babies now are workers in twenty years' time. We can forward project this. It doesn't stop.

那我们到底要怎么养活这么庞大的婴儿潮一代？在美国他们有7800万人，是历史上同时期最庞大的群体。我们根本负担不起

So how the hell are we going to pay for this massive amount of baby boomers, which is in The United States, 78,000,000 of them, largest cohort in history at the time? We can't pay for

他们。这就是为什么有人提议对比特币的价值征税，或者对资产价值征税，又或者对投资收入征税。

them. And this is where the proposals are to tax your Bitcoin, the value of your Bitcoin, or tax the value of your assets, or tax your investment income.

但英国也有同样的问题。整个财富问题，每个人都有同样的困境。每个人都是。

But The UK has got the same. This whole wealth everybody's got the same problem. Everybody.

汉弗莱，关于退休危机，你怎么看？

What do think, Humphrey, in terms of retirement crisis?

我觉得我有不同的看法。首先，我想杰斯佩里、廷罗，你们刚才在讨论社会保障，对吧？是的。但总的来说，我对退休有不同见解。我认为401(k)对普通人来说是有益的，因为它是一种强制储蓄机制。

I think that so I have a different take on well, think, first of all, I think Jesperi, Tinro, you guys were talking and you were talking about Social Security, right? Yeah. But I have a different take on retirement altogether, I think. Yeah. I think 401s are good for the average person because it's a forced savings mechanism.

很多人不会主动向退休账户存钱，除非雇主提供这种计划，对吧？所以整个匹配机制在行为金融学上是个很好的设计。就像是，如果我这样做，就能从雇主那里得到一些免费的钱，至少我存了一些钱而不是一无所有。

A lot of people wouldn't contribute to a retirement account unless the employer offered it, right? And so the whole match thing is a great thing for behavioral finance. It's like, okay, if I do this, I get some free money from my employer, and at least I'm saving some money instead of nothing.

所以基本上是为那笔钱免费工作。

And so working for that money essentially free.

对于不了解的人，401(k)是指你同意与雇主共同投资到一个投资池中。

A four zero one k for anyone that doesn't understand is you agree to invest in a investment pot alongside your employer.

它更像是一种个人退休账户，因为你为雇主工作而获得。是的。你可以选择在401(k)内进行投资，而且401(k)通常是税收递延的，这意味着你在晚年才为此缴税。

It is more like an individual retirement account that is awarded to you because you work for an employer. Yeah. You have the option to invest within a four zero one k, and that four zero one k is typically tax deferred, which means that you pay taxes on it later in life.

那这和社保有什么区别？

And what's the difference between that and a Social Security?

社保是一项政府计划，要求你从每笔薪水中缴纳费用进入这个大池子。当你退休后，政府会每月寄给你一张社保支票。

A Social Security is a government program where you are required to pay into it every paycheck that goes into this big pot. And then when you do retire, the government will send you a Social Security check every month.

好的。

Okay.

但我仍然认为有很多方式可以退休，并且带着某种自由退休。提前退休。你之前听说过Coastfire吗？没有。Coastfire是另一个较新的概念，主要在Reddit上流行，它是财务独立提前退休（FIRE）的一个变种。

But I I still think that there are plenty of ways to retire and retire with some sort of freedom. Retire early. Have you heard of Coastfire before? No. Coastfire is another newer thing that's, that's kind of on Reddit, but it's a variation of Financial Independence Retire Early.

它本质上是指你将你的养老储蓄积累到某个点，之后无需再投入一分钱，但因为达到了某个数字——通常这个数字是相当合理的——如果你投资于标普500指数，其投资回报足以让你在65岁正常退休时实现完全退休。所以这并不意味着你完全提前退休，而是说一旦达到所谓的'海岸火数字'，你在选择工作上可能有更多自由。比如，你不再需要为你极其讨厌的雇主工作，可以转而从事更符合你生活方式的事情。你仍在工作，但不再是为了攒退休金而工作，因为你已经达到了那个海岸火数字。

And it's essentially you get your nest egg to a point where you don't have to invest any dollar into it after that, but because you get it to, let's say, a certain number, and that number is usually pretty reasonable, the investment returns if you're invested in the S and P 500 will get you to a full retirement by the time you are able to retire at 65. So it doesn't mean you retire early completely, but it means that if you get to your coast fire number, which is what it's called, maybe you have more freedom of choice in what you're working on. So, like, maybe you don't have to work for the employer that you absolutely hate. You can maybe go do something that's a little bit more suited to your lifestyle. You're still working, but you're not working to save for retirement anymore because you hit that coast fire number.

举个例子，在35岁时，我认为海岸火数字大约是15万美元。如果你能在35岁前存到15万，以8%的投资回报率计算，三十年后退休时你将拥有150万美元，这对那些难以想象自己能否退休的人来说更容易接受。他们不会就此完全退休，不会在阿鲁巴的沙滩上翘脚度假，但仍然会做些事情。我个人认为，如果完全退休无所事事，我会无聊至极的，对吧？

So for example, at the age of 35, I think the coast fire number is like $150,000 If you can hit 150 ks by '35, if you have thirty years of investment returns at 8%, you'll have $1,500,000 by the time you retire, which is a little bit more palatable for people that are having a hard time wrapping their heads around, am I ever going to retire? They're not going to retire in that. They're not going to be kicking up their feet on the sand beaches of Aruba, but you're still going to be doing something. And I I personally think if I was retired, I'd be so bored out of my mind doing nothing. Right?

所以我更愿意做些事情。关键在于，你不再需要为你讨厌的工作或类似的事情而奔波了。

So I'd like to work on something. The idea is you just don't have to work for maybe the job you hate or something like that.

所以如果我存到了15万美元。嗯。然后我把它投入标普500指数，获得

So if I hit the $150,000 in savings Mhmm. And I put it into the S and P 500 and get the

8%的回报率。

8% return.

8%的回报率。到65岁时，我就能有100多万。

8% return. By the age of 65, I'll have 1 point something million.

150.9万。是的。

1.509. Yeah.

但那时候这些钱值多少呢？

But what's that worth then?

没错。就是这样。这是等式的另一部分——考虑到通货膨胀，它实际价值会是多少？

That's true. There that's it. That is another part of the equation is with inflation, what is it gonna be worth?

这就是你想做的吗？因为我记得一小时前你说过，你只是想早点退休，大意如此。

And is this what you're trying to do? Because I remember an hour ago, you said, I'm just trying to retire earlier words to that effect.

是的。我的意思是，我想实现海岸财务自由（coastfire）。而海岸财务自由，你知道的，可以根据你自己的方式来定义。但我认为我已经很接近了，甚至可能已经达到了，这意味着我可以从事自己热爱的工作，并且我相信我的退休储备金最终会增长到一定程度，等到我60、65岁时，就能实现 coast 状态了。所以

Yeah. I mean, I'd like to be coastfire. And coastfire is, you know, however you would like to define it. But, you know, I already think I'm pretty close, or if not, I've already reached it, which is like I get to work on the things that I love, and I I think that my retirement nest egg will eventually grow to a point where by the time I hit 60, 65, I'll be able to coast. So did

你有没有设定一个具体数字，计算过你需要达到多少？

you did you create a number, do the math on what you'd need to get to?

是的。好的。没错。你可以预估一下你未来的年度开支，然后反推回去得出那个数字。

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So you can project out your expenses of what you think your expenses are going to be on an annual basis, and then kind of work backwards to that number.

好的。

Okay.

对。涉及很多计算，但你总得去做

Yeah. A lot of math involved, but you kind of have to do

。你是想追赶你的退休目标还是什么？

it. Do you want chatch your pity or something?

是的。你

Yeah. Do

退休危机。这确实令人担忧。这确实令人担忧。所以你的方法是采用海岸FIRE策略吗？

it. Retirement crisis. That's concerning. That's concerning. So your approach is to do the coast fire thing?

我的方法是保持纪律性，坚持储蓄和投资，真正实现可能退休的目标。

My approach is let's stay disciplined, consistent with our savings and investing, and actually get to a place where retirement might be possible.

我是说，我很喜欢这个想法。这和我最初开始显化命运时是一样的。

I mean, I I love that idea. That's the same as when I started with the manifesting your your destiny.

当然。

Sure.

你说，好吧，我需要这个目标。

You say, well, I need this goal.

怎么

How do

做呢？我们这样做并让我们的投资增长。对吧？这样做很聪明。然后你就可以承担更多风险了。

I do it? We do this and grow up our investments. Right? It's it's brilliant to do that. And then you can take more risk.

当然。如果你把它独立出来说，我现在建造的任何胶囊都可以随心所欲。这和我对家的想法是一样的。确切地说，就像我已经降低了生活的风险。现在我可以承担风险，这确实是一件很好的事情。

Sure. If you isolate that and say, well, any capsule I build now, I can do whatever I want. That was the same idea that I had with the home. It's exact it's like I've derisked my life. Now I can take risk, and that's a really nice thing to do.

而且我很喜欢你通过说'未来的我想要这个'来实现它的方式。嗯。为了做到这一点，我现在需要这样做。

And I love the way that you do it by saying, well, my future self wants this. Mhmm. For me to do that, need to do this now.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后它就应该处理好那件事。现在总是存在风险，需要想象，但确实如此。

And then it should take care of that. Now it's all there's always risk in and imagine, but yeah.

然后你就有额外的钱可以做任何你想做的事情。对吧？但是我

And then you have extra dollars to do whatever you want with. Right? But I

也很欣赏你在自己喜欢和了解的事情上一直很自律。是的。我很感激这一点。谢谢你。因为你说过，我认为90%的资金都在指数基金和ETF里。

also love that you've been disciplined on like what you like and what you know. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you. Because you said I think 90% are in index funds and ETFs.

这就是我会推荐给人们的做法。

That's what I would recommend for people.

哦，抱歉。

Oh, sorry.

好的。就我个人而言，我大概有五六十只指数基金。

Okay. For me personally, I'm like fifty, sixty index funds.

但即便如此，这个比例还是相当高的，而且没有那种闪亮物体综合症或不管你怎么称呼它。我的意思是，那并不是

But still, that's pretty high, and not having that shiny object syndrome or whatever you want to call it. Mean, that's not

你在指责我有追逐闪亮物体的毛病。

I'm accusing me of having shiny objects.

我只是想让大家都能参与进来。是的。但不管是什么，能保持纪律性。我我认为这是一种非常宝贵的品质。而且，你知道，你谈到了稀缺心态。

I was just trying to engage everybody here. Yeah. But whatever it might be to to to be disciplined. I I think that's such a valuable trait. And, you know, you talked about the scarcity mindset.

我认为那也是你所拥有的一种自律心态，所以我我会重新表述一下。我认为你做得非常出色。

Think that's also a disciplined mindset that you have that so I I would I would reframe that. I think you've done an excellent job.

我认为个人理财是个人的事。好了，各位。我想我接到史蒂夫了。嘉宾到了。准备好了吗？

Think personal finance is personal. Alright, guys. I think I got Steve. The guest is here. Ready?

请进。

Come in.

天哪，史蒂夫。

Oh my god, Steve.

你在做什么？这是Boncharge面膜。它对瑕疵、皱纹有好处，能清洁皮肤。这是红光。你以前没用过吗？

What are you doing? This is the Boncharge face mask. It's good for blemishes, wrinkles, clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before?

没有。以前从没试过。它真的非常非常好。它用红光照射你的脸，有助于增加和促进胶原蛋白的产生。我其实是因为我太太才发现的。

No. Never tried this before. It's it's really, really good. It shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. I actually found it out because of the missus.

看到她戴着它，连续几个晚上都吓到我了。我以为它是用来吓人的，但实际上，它对皮肤真的非常非常好。所以他们是播客的赞助商，我每天使用它已经大约一年半了。

Seeing her wearing it, she terrified me a couple of nights in a row. I thought it was to scare people with, but actually, it's really, really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast, and I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.

哇。好吧，史蒂夫，

Wow. Well, Steve,

你已经戴上了。是的。而且Boncharge全球发货，提供便捷的退换货服务，所有产品都有一年保修。所以请访问boncharge.com/diary，全站任何产品均可享受25%的折扣。但你必须通过那个链接订购。

you've got it on. Yes. And Bonchard ships worldwide with easy returns and a year long warranty on all of their products. So visit boncharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product site wide. But you have to order through that link.

网址是boncharge.com/diary，使用代码diary。请务必将我接下来要说的话保密。我正在邀请10,000名听众更深入地走进《CEO日记》。欢迎加入我的核心圈。这是我向全球推出的一个全新的私人社区。

That's boncharge.com/diary with code diary. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world.

我们有很多精彩的内容从未公开过。包括我录制对话时iPad上的要点摘要、从未发布的剪辑片段、与嘉宾的幕后对话，还有我们从未播出过的完整剧集等等。在这个圈子里，你将能直接联系到我。

We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In this circle, you'll have direct access to me.

你可以告诉我们希望这个节目如何发展，想让我们采访谁，以及你希望我们进行哪种类型的对话。但请记住，目前我们只邀请前10,000名加入的成员，名额满即关闭。如果你想加入我们的私人封闭社区，请点击下方描述中的链接或访问d0accircle.com。我们在那里交流。说到自律，汉弗莱，我看过你的几个视频，你谈到了一些停止消费的项目。

You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you wanna join our private close community, head to the link in the description below or go to d0accircle.com. I will speak to you there. On that point of discipline, Humphrey, I have seen a couple of videos from you where you talk about the things that you stopped spending money on.

有一种说法是，要想致富、储蓄或实现财务目标，就不该买星巴克咖啡。当然，不该做这些事。你停止了哪些消费？你的决策框架是什么？

And there is a narrative that says, you know, in order to get rich or to save or to get to where you wanna go with your financial goals, you should not have the Starbucks coffee. Sure. You should not do these things. What what did you stop spending money on, and what's your framework there?

我回顾了2014年及以后的支出，观察了自己消费习惯的变化。首先停止的是爱彼迎住宿。爱彼迎曾经性价比很高，能提供独特体验，但如今都商业化了。加上清洁费等各种费用，最终花钱更多却不如酒店方便。

So I looked at I took a look at my expenses from 2014 and onward and just kind of, like, saw the differences in how my spending habits have changed. The first thing I stopped spending money on are Airbnbs. So Airbnbs used to be a great value. They used to be a unique experience, but these days they're all kind of commercialized. And I feel like with the cleaning fees and all these fees, you end up paying more for less convenience as a hotel.

这是第一项。第二是停止批量购买食品。我知道这听起来有点随机，但我单身。有时买两加仑牛奶喝不完，对吧？

So that's number one. I stopped buying food in bulk. I know that sounds kind of random, but I'm a single guy. Sometimes I get two gallons of milk and I can't finish it. Right?

结果把牛奶倒掉。或者从Costco一次买48个鸡蛋，我就想：老兄，我喜欢健身，但两周也吃不完48个鸡蛋啊。对吧？这是另一项。然后还有...

So I'm pouring milk down the drain. Or I'm buying 48 eggs at a time from Costco, and I'm just like, dude, like, I I like the gym, but I can't eat 48 eggs in like two weeks or whatever that time is. Right? So that's another. And then another

事情

thing

我所做的是开始更换我的汽车保险，因为我搬到了旧金山市中心。我现在开车少了。以前我每年开15,000英里，现在每年只开3,000英里。仅仅通过打电话给我的汽车保险公司，我每月就能节省大约40美元，就因为我的驾驶需求大大降低了。

I did was I started to switch my car insurance because I moved into San Francisco, the city. I'm driving less. So I used to drive 15,000 miles a year. I drive 3,000 miles a year now. And just by calling my car insurance, I was able to save, like, $40 a month just because my driving requirements are much lower.

所以这些就像是解释一下。是的。你知道，汽车保险费率取决于你开车的多少。如果你开车少了并且搬到了城市，那么你的费率应该会下降。但我觉得有些人对他们的保险公司有点过于忠诚了。

So those are like Explain that. Yeah. So, you know, a car a car insurance rates are dependent on how much you drive. And if you drive less and you move to a city, then your rates should come down. But I think some people are a little bit too loyal to their providers.

他们不愿意比较费率，因为这很麻烦。你其实不想做这件事。它需要时间。但我认为这样做，花一个小时打电话给你的保险公司，看看不同的保险公司，不仅是汽车保险，还有房屋保险，你可以省下很多钱，因为保险有点商品化了。所以就像是你可以从很多不同的提供商那里获得保障。

They're not willing to compare rates because it's painful. You don't really want to do it. It takes time. But I think doing that, spending an hour calling your insurance provider, looking at different insurance providers, not just for cars but for homes, too, you can save a lot of money because insurance is kind of commoditized. So it's like you're going to get coverage from many different providers.

你不如让他们为你的业务竞相出价。

You might as well put them kind of in a bidding war for your business.

我以前卖过汽车保险。所以，你知道，我过去

I used to work selling car insurance. So, you know, I used

曾经，那是一个

to it was one

我做过电话销售的工作。

of my telesales jobs.

我也做过那个。

I've done that as well.

是的。那很有趣。我觉得人们不知道这一点。但当我坐在汽车保险呼叫中心时，屏幕上有一个可以左右移动的条，我基本上可以根据销售情况给你折扣。所以如果我觉得快要失去你这单了，我只需把条向左滑动，就能降低你的首付和月付。

Yeah. And that that was interesting. I don't think people know this. But as I sat there in the the car insurance call center, there's this bar on the screen that I can move in either direction to basically give you a discount based on how the sale is going. So if I really think I'm gonna lose your sale, all I do is slide the bar to the left, and it brings your your upfront payment down and your monthly payment down.

嗯。但如果我觉得这单很容易成交，我就可以把报价条向上调，给你推销故障保险和其他各种附加服务。所以我觉得人们没有意识到他们的所有保险都是可以协商的，甚至是手机保险等等这些东西。有时候直到你说要取消，他们才会突然给你一个很优惠的报价，比如打五折。

Mhmm. But if I thought the sale was easy, I could bring the bar up in terms of the price I quote you and give you breakdown insurance and all these other upsells. And so I don't think people realize how negotiable all of their insurances are, even their their phone insurance and all these other things. And sometimes you don't figure out until you you say you're gonna quit, And then suddenly, they give you some great offer where they're gonna give you 50% off.

没错。是的。另一种处理方式是我从不真正按成本销售，我是按收入来销售的。好吧。

Yep. Yeah. And the other way of approaching it is I never really sold for costs. I sold for income. Okay.

这就是说，你的生活方式，只要不过分离谱，对吧，就像是，我是不是真的不想去餐厅或者点Uber Eats外卖之类的？

And that is saying that is saying, okay. Your lifestyle, as long as you're not being ridiculous, right, is like, do I really want to not go to a go to a restaurant or get that Uber Eats or whatever?

明白了。是的。

Understand. Yeah.

因为那是在惩罚自己。而且这并不总是件好事，对吧？这需要很强的自律性，而自律是很难的。但如果你在增加收入方面投入同等程度的自律，你实际上能让生活方式更进一步。

Because that's penalizing yourself. And that's not a nice thing to do always. Right? It takes a lot of discipline, and discipline is hard. But if you've got an equal an opposite amount of discipline in solving for income, you actually move your lifestyle further ahead.

所以现在的情况是，我做三、四份工作，你做三、四份工作，我们都在做各种不同的事情。你也是。我们都有不同的收入来源。与其纠结成本基础，不如把精力花在思考如何增加收入来源上，这样反而更划算。

So the rise of I I do three, four jobs. You do three, four we all do lots of different things now. You do as well. We've all got different income streams. You're almost better off to spend your energy thinking about how do I increase my income stream than your cost basis.

某种程度上我们达成共识。就像给斯蒂芬发消息的那位朋友，他迫切需要挽救他的成本基础。但总的来说，如果你在规划人生，通过解决收入问题，你会更快实现所谓的' Coast FIRE'（ Coast Financial Independence, Retire Early）或类似目标，这比削减成本要快。

A certain point, we agree. Like Stephen's friend who sent him the message, he needs to desperately rescue his cost base. But generally, if you're looking at a life plan, you'll get to your coast fire or whatever it's called Sure. Quicker by solving for income than you will for cost.

我只是觉得更容易实现的是削减开支，每个人都能稍微缩减一点，但并不是每个人都能说，我明天就要赚两倍的钱。那是个更难的问题。而且我认为如果你想要

I just think lower hanging fruit is solving for expenses, which is like everyone can cut back a little bit, but everyone can't just like say, I'm gonna make two x more tomorrow. That's kind of a harder problem. And I think if you want

嗯，你只是用时间做交换。因为我的意思是，你可以。如果你从事的是收入较低的工作

Well, you just trade off your time. Because you I mean, you can. If you're in a lower earning job

嗯。

Mhmm.

你可以开优步赚外快，或者你可以做一份

You can drive an Uber and earn extra money, or you can do a

哦，明白你的意思了。

bar Oh, see what you're saying.

是的。现在世界就是这样，因为生活成本变得如此昂贵，嗯。每个人都不得不做多份工作。但有了技术，我们实际上可以更容易地做到这一点。

Yeah. It's like multiple revenue streams is now the way the world because the cost of living has become so expensive Mhmm. That everyone's having to do multiple jobs. But with technology, we can actually do it much easier.

不过我也同意Tumphrey的观点，今天你或许只需带个便当就能获得30%的加薪，或者

I Tumphrey's point as well, though, you can get a 30% pay rise today just by maybe bringing a packed lunch or

当然。

Sure.

步行去某处之类的。而且可能更难获得30%的加薪

Walking somewhere or whatever else. And it's probably harder to get a 30% pay rise

不确定是不是今天。我

Not sure about the day. I

认为这取决于你处于人生的哪个阶段。因为现在，如果你坚持带午餐——就以午餐为例，准备午餐需要时间。而根据你时间的价值，那一小时可能值20美元，也可能值2000美元。我认为这是关键区别。而且我认为确实有时间和场合需要削减开支。在这一点上我完全同意你。

think it depends on which stage of life you're in. Because now if you just stick with the lunch if you're on the lunch example, packing lunch costs time. And depending on how much your time is worth, that one hour of time could be $20 it could be $2,000 And I think that's key difference. And I think there's definitely times and places you gotta cut. Fully agree with you on that.

但我认为在某个阶段是这样的。我在很多方面仍然很节省，但在时间方面——我们的办公室在底特律市中心，我通勤需要四十五分钟。但我不自己开车，而是选择乘车前往。这样做的原因是，我可以坐在后座工作。

But I think at a certain stage look. I'm I have still cheap with my money in multiple places, but I have when it comes to time so our office is in Downtown Detroit, and my commute there is forty five minutes. But I don't drive. What I do is I get driven there. And the reason why I do that is because I can sit in the backseat and work.

我们每天都会发布财经新闻。有时候市场简报会出现重要动态。如果我开车，就不能边发信息边驾驶。因此，我宁愿每天花钱打优步或其他车，往返各四十五分钟，虽然这笔费用天天从账户扣除，但我换回了一个半小时的时间——这远比支付给司机的费用有价值。所以我觉得这取决于你处于人生的哪个阶段，换作以前我肯定不会这样做。

And one of the things that we publish daily financial news. So sometimes something really happening with our market briefs where, oh, is important. And if I'm driving, I don't wanna be texting and driving. So instead, I pay for an Uber or whatever, and I go that forty five minutes there, forty five minutes back, and it's money out of my account every single day, but I get back an hour and a half of my time, which is worth way more than whatever I'm paying in my driver fees. So I I think it depends on where you are in this stage of life because I wouldn't do that if this was way before.

最大的问题是——这是向所有人开放的问题。你认为普通人最常犯的理财错误是什么？

What is the biggest for this is an open question to everybody. What do you think the biggest money mistake the average person makes is?

他们花光了所有钱。两个'S'：先是花光所有钱（Spending），如果能越过这个阶段，又会陷入存下所有钱（Saving）的误区。

They spend all their money. The the two s's. You you're spending all of your money, and if you get past that, then you're saving all of your money.

两者都是错误的？

Both of them are mistakes?

两者都是错误的。

Both of them are mistakes.

也就是说，让钱闲置在银行账户里什么都不做。

So just having your money sat in a bank account doing nothing.

你每天都在变得更穷。

You're becoming poorer every single day.

我觉得大多数人不知道这一点。我有个朋友，他的银行余额一直在稳步复利增长。我记得问他，那你现在银行账户里有多少钱？他采取了一种非常缓慢的方式。他是一名自由职业者，经营着自己的生意。他说，我想大概有一百万美元吧。

I don't think most people know this. I've got a friend who's steadily compounded his his bank balance over time, and I remember asking him, so how much money do you now have in your bank account? He's taken a really slow approach over time. He runs a business as a freelance. And he goes, I think probably about a million dollars.

我当时说，这些钱就只是放在你的银行账户里？他说，是啊。因为他害怕。他好像害怕不知道该怎么处理这笔钱，所以觉得把钱存在银行账户里是最安全的选择。

I was like, it's just sat in your bank account. He was like, yeah. And because he's scared. He's Like, scared he doesn't know what to do with it, so he thinks just putting it in the bank account is the safest possible thing to do.

嗯，但这是一种必然的损失。如果你的银行账户——如今美国的普通银行账户，不是高收益账户，而是普通账户——利率只有0.1%、0.5%，我不确定，反正非常低。如果我们假设通货膨胀率是3%，意味着你从银行账户里取钱购买东西的成本每年上涨3%，而且这还是报告的数字，不是许多人感受到的实际通胀率。那么，这意味着你的资金实际上净损失了2.5%。所以，如果我有一百万美元在那里，那就是损失了2.5万美元的购买力。

Well, it's a guaranteed loss. If your if your bank account the average bank account in The United States today, not the high yield accounts, but the average account is paying 0.1%, 0.5%, I don't know, something super low. If we just say inflation is 3%, meaning the cost you have to spend out of the bank account to buy something is going up by 3%, and that's the reported numbers, not the real inflation that many people feel, well, means there's a net loss of two and a half percent on that. So if I have a million dollars there, that's $25,000 of lost buying power.

Ro，你觉得公司——因为我的很多听众都是公司，不管是一个人公司还是大公司——你认为他们应该把存在账户里的钱投入比特币吗？

Ro, do you think companies because a lot of my audience are companies, whether they're, you know, one person companies or big companies. Do you think they should be putting their money that they have sat in their account into Bitcoin?

本质上，如果你是微软这样的公司，他们拥有巨额现金储备。微软用他们的现金买什么？实际上，他们会买一些投资产品，但通常是现金类的。然后他们可能会收购另一家公司，或者购买房地产数据中心，比如说，或者回购自己的股票。他们购买的这三样东西都受到货币贬值的驱动，而且每年都在变得更贵。

In essence, if you're Microsoft, they have huge cash piles. What does Microsoft buy with their cash? Really, they buy some investment stuff, but it's generally cash based. And then they may buy another company, or they may buy real estate data centers, let's say or they may buy their own shares back. All of those three things that they buy are driven by the debasement of currency, and they get more expensive every year.

而他们持有的现金回报率只有3.5%。所以他们这样做很愚蠢，因为实际上，你所有股东的现金并没有购买到相当于推动公司价值的实际资产。

And they're holding a cash return of three and a half percent. So it's stupid what they're doing because, actually, all your shareholder cash is not buying the equivalent of the actual things that drive the value of the company.

那么小型公司呢？如果现在有听众的公司银行账户里有100万、200万资金，他们可能并不需要全部用于现金流周转？

So what about small companies? What if there's people listening now that have companies where they've got 1,000,000, 2,000,000 in the in the bank, they probably don't need it all for cash flow reasons?

是的。回到你最初的问题，我认为投资与储蓄的关系确实被误解了。投资其实重要得多。我年轻时曾犯过错误——因为对风险的恐惧让我成为极度风险规避者，尽管我本身就是投资银行家。

Yeah. And so I do think that investing versus saving is misunderstood, to go back to your original question. I think investing is much more important. I made the mistake of being a saver when I was young because the the fear that all of that stuff meant I was super risk averse. And I was an investment banker.

我本应投资却没有行动。虽然通过行业工作赚了钱，我却选择囤积现金。这样做反而让财务状况更糟。直到目睹银行体系崩溃后，我才决心不再这样——我要掌控自己的财务。

I was investing, but I didn't. So I made money from being in that industry, so I'm like, I'm just going to hoard cash. I did worse for doing that. And then once we saw the banking system fail, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to take control of my own finances.

企业也是同样的道理。如果产生现金流，就不该持有巨额现金，但保持部分流动性投资非常有益。这能让现金为企业和股东增值，同时又不会失去流动性。最糟糕的就是急需用钱时没有现金——尤其当你辛苦攒下这些钱时。

So the same is true of a business. If they're generating cash, they shouldn't be sitting on a massively large amount of cash, but some liquid investments, I think, massively help. Because you're going to make your cash grow for you and your shareholders. And that's important. But don't let go of your liquidity, because when you really need it you don't have cash, that's the worst thing in the world, particularly when you've saved the money.

那么在Real Vision的企业银行账户里，你们会把部分资金投入加密货币吗？这要看情况，很多...

So in your business bank account for Real Vision Yeah. Do you put some of the the money into crypto? It depends. A lot of

资金会重新投入公司以实现增长。你需要决定：资本如何增值？是通过业务再投资提升股价，还是用储蓄池进行多元化投资？这完全取决于企业所处的发展阶段。

it gets reinvested for growth within the company. So you're making the decision as, how's your capital going to grow? Is it going to grow your share price via reinvesting in the business? Or is it better to use the savings pool and buy other investments and diversify away? That really depends on your business where it is in the growth cycle.

但如果是现金流稳定、非增长型的成熟企业，在提取分红、购置房产等之后，没有理由不采取相对保守的投资策略。

But if you're like a cash generating, regular, non growth style business, then you're going to be generating cash. You might have taken some dividends out and book bought a house and done all that thing. Yeah. There's no reason not to do some relatively conservative investment strategy.

汉弗莱，你曾与许多富人共事并为他们提供建议。富人在金钱方面知道哪些普通人不知道的事情？因为当你能够窥见幕后时，会发现一些金钱游戏。他们在用钱做什么普通人没有意识到或无法做到的事情？

Humphrey, you worked with lots of rich people advising them. What is it that rich people know that the average person doesn't know as it relates to money? Because there are money games that you discover when you get to see behind the curtain. What is it that they're doing with their money that the average person isn't aware of or isn't able to do with their money?

富人通常更有纪律性。他们通常每天都会查看银行账户，对吧？他们做一些小事，这些小事在十年或二十年后会复合成巨大成果，他们思考的是几十年，而不仅仅是这周要做什么，对吧？

Rich people are typically more disciplined. They're they're typically checking their bank account every day. Right? They're they're doing little things that compound into huge results at the end of ten or twenty years, and they're they're thinking in decades, not just what am I going to do this week? Right?

他们为自己选择十年、二十年后的投资选择，而不是选择当晚花1000英镑赌足球比赛。因为他们知道今天为他们工作的1000英镑在十年或二十年后将价值1万或2万英镑。所以这更像是一种长期思维与短期思维的对比。

They're choosing investment choices for themselves in ten years, twenty years from now, instead of choosing sports betting on the football match for £1,000 that night. Because they know that their thousand pounds working for them today will be worth, you know, 10,000, 20,000 in ten or twenty years. So it's more just like a long term mindset versus a short term mindset.

就像延迟满足。

Like delaying gratification.

延迟满足。是的。

Delaying gratification. Yes.

你刚才在写什么？

What were you writing down there?

我在写这个系统是如何偏向富人的。这非常不寻常，因为正如查理·芒格所说：给我看激励机制，我就会给你看结果。一旦人们获得——不是10万，而是银行账户里有1000万的人——他们能获得叫做无追索权贷款的贷款。这非常特别，因为与你的朋友不同，他们不必偿还。

I was writing down how the system is rigged in the favor of rich people. It's extraordinary because it's it's the Charlie Munger quote of show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome. What people get once you get it's not the 100,000, but it's like the people who've got $10,000,000 in their bank account. They get loans that are called nonrecourse loans. It's an extraordinary thing because unlike your friend, they don't have to pay it back.

所以无追索权贷款意味着你最终对这笔贷款不承担法律责任。当然，会有一些关于如何操作的条款。但他们为什么要这样做？为什么他们能获得这些优惠条件？为什么他们能在公司上市前通过私募获得股票？

So a non recourse loan means you're not legally liable for the loan in the end. Now, there'll be some provisions on how to do it. But why are they doing this? Why are they getting these favorable terms? Why are they getting the private placements in stocks before they go public?

为什么他们能获得所有最好的报价？因为他们支付费用。因为他们向投资银行支付费用。而投资银行极度需要这些人，因为他们有大量的金融活动。因此银行会给他们提供激励。

Why are they getting all the best offers? Because they pay fees. Because they pay fees to the investment banks. And the investment banks desperately want these people, because they have a lot of financial activity. And so they incentivize them.

我们普通人根本接触不到这些。这和我最初谈论的对冲基金行业情况如出一辙。就像他们被某个阶段激励，以获得比其他人更优质的信息。我认为其中一部分关键在于，我们想告诉人们的是：你不必玩同样的游戏。你不必向任何人支付费用。

None of us get a look in at all of that. It's the same thing that I talked about with the hedge fund industry in the beginning. It's like they were incentivized by a phase to get information that was better than everybody else. And I think part of that is the ability that all we're trying to say to people is you don't have to play the same game. You don't have to pay anybody's fees.

你买一个比特币，把它存在Coinbase或其他地方。运行成本为零，而你的表现却超过了风险投资家。还有一些简单的方法，比如购买指数基金。你不需要向华尔街综合体支付数千美元的管理费。有很多方法可以破解这个系统，而且成本并不高。

You buy a Bitcoin, stick it in your Coinbase thing or wherever. It costs you nothing to run, and you're outperforming a venture capital investor. There's simple things like buying an index fund. You're not paying the Wall Street complex thousands of dollars for active management. There's ways of hacking this, and it's not that expensive to do.

在转向Jaspreet之前，我认为你们两位都稍微提到了一点，你之前也说过关系如何创造财富。因为当我坐在那个公寓里与那位亿万富翁在一起时，我观察到的是：他的朋友和过去与他做过生意的联系人获得了配售权，即在这家公司上市前投资的最佳机会，这意味着第二天他们的投资就会翻倍。但这些都是基于关系。如果说有什么积累财富的策略，这又回到了拉尔夫开始时说的：与人交往并建立良好关系实际上是非常被低估的。我有个朋友，可以指名道姓，叫Harry Studdings。

Just before we move to Jaspreet, one of the things that I think you kind of both alluded to a little bit and you said earlier on was about how relationships make money. And because what I was watching when I sat in that apartment with this billionaire is his friends and his contacts who had done business with him in the past were getting the allocation, the prime allocation of being able to invest just before this company went public, which means that the next day it would multiply. But those were relationships. If So if there is a strategy to to build wealth, it goes back to what Ralph said at the start, being around people and having good relationships is actually, I think, really, really unappreciated. I've got a friend, I can name my friend, called Harry Studdings.

他运营一个名为20 VC的播客。在那个播客上，他与极其富有的人对话。Harry的播客规模不如Joe Rogan的大。但由于Harry与地球上最富有的人进行了两小时的对话，并且持续这样做，他建立了欧洲最大的投资基金之一，尤其对于一个二十多岁的年轻人来说。如果我没记错的话，他仅凭这些关系就筹集了7.5亿美元。

He runs a podcast called 20 VC. And on that podcast, he sits with extremely rich people. The podcast Harry's podcast isn't as big as Joe Rogan's. But because Harry has had two hour conversations with the richest people on planet Earth and continues to do so, He's built one of the biggest investment funds in Europe, especially as like a guy in his twenties. I mean, I think he's raised, if I'm not mistaken, 750,000,000 just from the relationships.

他对我说，你知道，过去五到十年我建立的最大价值杠杆不是浏览量。有人比他浏览量更高。而是他认识所有富人。我认为我们在思考财富创造时低估了这一点，因为如果你能像拉尔所说那样，接近富人，以某种方式帮助他们，建立这些关系，它带来的回报是永远的，不是吗？

And he said to me, he said, you know, the biggest value leverage I've built in the last five, ten years isn't, the views. People have more views than him. It's he he knows everyone rich. And and I think we underestimate that when we think about wealth creation because if you can do what Rael said and get around rich people Yeah. Help them in some way, build those relationships, it pays dividends, what, forever?

有一位很厉害的人叫迪维什·马坎，他在旧金山经营一家名为Iconic的投资公司。他和我差不多同时期在高盛当投资银行新人，但他二月份被招进了互联网银行团队。他到岗后仅一个月，整个部门就解散了，所有人都被解雇了。

There's a there's a great guy called Divesh Makan who runs a firm, an investment firm in in San Francisco called Iconic. He was a young investment banker at Goldman around the same time when I started there as well. But he was he was hired into the Internet banking team at in February. He turned up the office, but a month later, the entire thing was gone. Everybody was fired.

他当时太年轻，资历浅到公司都懒得解雇他——只开除了所有资深银行家。他当时想：我该怎么办？我记得他连上司都没剩半个。

And he was too young. He was kind of too junior to bother to fire. They fired all the senior bankers. And he thought, well, what do I do? I think he had no bosses left.

于是他干脆跑去硅谷，泡在咖啡馆里结交朋友。他碰巧结识的人包括马克·扎克伯格、里德·哈斯廷斯、里德·霍夫曼等大佬。后来他成为这些人在高盛的财富顾问，又把业务全部转到摩根士丹利，最终创立了自己的Iconic公司。如今Iconic规模巨大，专门为这群硅谷精英管理财富——这一切都源于他在无人看好创业者的低谷期，通过偶然结识这些

So he just basically went to Silicon Valley and hung out in coffee shops and made friends. The people he happened to make friends with were Mark Zuckerberg, Reed Hastings, Reed Hoffman, all these people. But he then became their wealth adviser at Goldman, moved it all to Morgan Stanley, and then built his own firm Iconic. And Iconic is massive. Runs all the wealth for these Silicon Valley people from this network of meeting these random dudes building businesses when nobody else wanted to speak to them because, you know, they'd gone through the big bust, and he made his entire life on that network.

天才之举。可能就在那家咖啡馆里

Genius. Probably at that cafe where

我把所有比特币都花光了

I spent all my Bitcoin.

那家带着金色大门的店

The the one with the gold door.

你当时也在场，还对比特币嗤之以鼻。有趣的是，当我们讨论货币体系时，从来没人提及人际关系管理系统。而大多数人维系关系的方式，不过是存个电话号码

You were there at the same time. Sending was your bum on Bitcoin. It's interesting because when we talk about systems and all these things for money, nobody ever talks about a system for managing your relationships. And the way that most of us manage our relationships is we get someone's number

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们希望我们还能再次相遇。但我想我甚至在考虑这个问题。你显然做了这个播客，让我遇到了这么多优秀的人。我应该建立一个更好的系统来理解这些关系，我如何能为这些人提供服务，了解他们的生日，以及所有其他这类事情。这不仅对我的心理健康有好处，能有更多朋友，减少孤独感，所有这些社会心理学方面的事情，而且从商业角度来看，未来也会有各种机会，无论是六年后我需要你的建议的时候。

And we hope that we'll cross paths again. But I think I even think I'm thinking about it. You obviously do this podcast where I meet so many great people. I should have a much better system for understanding those relationships, how I can be of service to those people, understanding their birthdays, and all these other kinds of things. And not only would that be good for my mental health and more friends, less likely, all these kinds of sort of social psychological things, but in business terms, there's gonna be opportunities whether it's six years from now where I need your advice.

那太好了。

That's great.

人脉网络的关键在于你投入什么，而不是你从中获取什么。

The the key to networks is it's what you put into the network, not what you take out.

是的。所以那些拥有

Yeah. So the people who have the

我见过的最好的人脉网络的人，总是那些会说'我能怎么帮你？'的人。是的。嘿。我有些东西要给你。你应该见见某某人。

best networks I've ever seen are always the people who say, how can I help you? Yeah. Hey. I've got something for you. You should meet so and so.

哦，是的。是的。是的。连接者。从不，

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Connectives. Never,

嘿，听着。你能为我做什么？是的，那会回来的。

hey. Listen. What can you do for me? Yeah. That comes back.

因果总是会回流。尽可能多地为网络付出，网络也会回馈给你。

Karma flows back always. Give as much into the network as possible, and the network gives back.

我想，在哈里的案例中，他也是这么做的。因为有趣的是，大约一个月前，我说，哦，我有个想法要做这件事。然后哈里在WhatsApp上三十秒内就回复我说，哦，我知道，插入这位欧洲投资界顶尖人士的名字。我会把你和他拉进一个WhatsApp群组。把我拉进和这家伙的群组，发了一条语音留言，说史蒂夫是最棒的。

I think that's what, in the case of Harry, he's also done. Because funnily enough, about a month ago, I said, oh, I've got this idea to do this thing. And Harry turned around to me thirty seconds within WhatsApp and said, oh, I know, insert name of this person who's the very top in investing in Europe. I'll put you in a WhatsApp group with him. Put me in a WhatsApp group with this guy, set a voice note, said Steve's the best ever.

然后他说，史蒂夫比我强多了，各方面都是。这真的是他的原话。然后他谈到他把我拉进群组的那个家伙，他说，这家伙也是他领域里最顶尖的。把你们俩凑在一起，祝你好运。我立刻就想，天哪，哈里。

Then he said he said, Steve's way better than I am, everything. This is literally what he said. Then And he said about the guy he put me in WhatsApp group, he goes, and this guy's also the best at what he does ever. Putting you two together, good luck. And immediately, thought, fucking hell, Harry.

多好的人啊。然后他介绍给我的那个人说，哈里是不是个很棒的人？所以我就给哈里发了消息。我说，听着。有什么我能为你做的，但这就是所谓的因果报应。

What a great guy. And then the guy he'd introduced me to goes, isn't Harry such a great guy? And so I messaged Harry. I'm like, listen. There's anything I can do for you but that's the calm mouth.

但说实话，你知道，我真的相信网络的力量。我认为这是最重要的事情。你的社群，你的人脉就是一切。绝对的答案是，你必须持续为网络付出。因为如果你试图从网络中索取，它就会崩溃。

But that honestly, I you know, I really believe in networks. Think it's the most important thing. Your community, your network is everything. And the absolute answer is you have to keep putting into the network. Because if you try and extract from the network, it collapses.

是的。因为那样你就成了那种十年后打电话说，嘿，斯蒂芬，我能从你这儿弄点钱吗？因为我现金用完了的人。

Yeah. Because then you're just that guy who's making the phone call after ten years saying, hey, Stephen, can I get some money from you because I've run out of cash?

我想谈的最后一个话题是英国和美国以及地理因素，以及它在多大程度上发挥作用。因为现在有很多关于英国的政治和社会讨论。人们对英国有些悲观。有些人对美国持乐观态度，有些人则不然。在考虑财富创造和财务策略时，你会在多大程度上考虑地理因素？

The last thing I wanted to talk about is The UK and The US and geographies generally and how much that plays a role. Because right now, there's lots of political, social conversations about The UK. People are a little bit doomer about The UK. Some people are optimistic about The US, some aren't. How much do you think about geographies when you're thinking about your wealth creation, your finance strategy?

它是否起作用？

Does it play a role?

我很幸运曾在伦敦住了一个多月左右。我在那里做了几期播客，我想我可以直接问你。这些播客有趣的地方在于，当我与他们交谈时，他们告诉我，他们的大部分听众基础在美国。他们的大部分收入来自美国。他们的大部分赞助商也来自美国。

So I was fortunate enough to live in London for a little bit over a month or so. And I did a number of podcasts out there, and I guess I could just ask you. The interesting thing about these podcasts is when I was talking to them, what they told me is that the majority of their listener base is in The United States. The majority of their money comes from The United States. The majority of their sponsors come from The United States.

而不是来自英国。我觉得这非常有趣，因为美国是一个巨大的市场。但他们说的是，真正希望在英国发展的人，至少根据我所听到的，很多人更愿意从美国赚取收入，因为美元的数额要高得多。我在这方面没有太多的全球经验，但我确实认为美国对于对财富增长和积累感兴趣的人更友好。也许不是最好的——世界上有免税国家，但对于那些更具创业精神的人来说，我认为这里有很多其他地方没有的机会。

It's not from The UK. And I thought that was very interesting because it's a it's a huge market. But what they were saying is people who are really looking to grow in The United Kingdom, a lot of them at least, just from what I heard, would prefer to earn from The United States because the dollar figures are much higher. Now, don't have a lot of global experience outside of that, but I do think that The United States is more friendly for people that are interested in wealth growth, wealth accumulation. Maybe not the best there's tax free countries out there, but in terms of for somebody who is more entrepreneurial in that sense, I think you have a lot of opportunities here that you don't have other places.

拉姆，你怎么看？

What do you think, Ram?

我非常相信地理位置的重要性，原因有很多。我曾在英国、印度、西班牙和开曼群岛生活过。我的大部分职业生涯是在美国这边度过的。西班牙是生活方式套利。生活成本可能甚至是英国的一半，是美国或开曼群岛的三分之一。

I'm a huge believer in geographic location for a number of different reasons. So I've lived in The UK, India, Spain, and The Cayman Islands. I spent most of my working career on this side of the Pond in The US. Spain is lifestyle arbitrage. The cost of living is even probably half that of The UK and a third of that what it is in The US or The Cayman Islands.

三百天的阳光，令人难以置信的人民、文化、气候，成本非常便宜，租金便宜，买房便宜，一切都很便宜。完美的生活方式套利。问题是人际网络。你周围没有那些有雄心壮志、做不同事情的人。在如今这个全球化的世界里，我们可以在线工作，这实际上是可行的。

Three hundred days of sunshine, incredible people, culture, climate, cost is very cheap, rent is cheap, to buy is cheap, everything. Perfect lifestyle arbitrage. Problem is network. You're not surrounded by people who are ambitious doing different stuff. In a globalized world now where we can work online, it's actually doable.

所以我们看到很多美国人搬到拉丁美洲。这就是套利机会，哥伦比亚也是。南美和拉丁美洲生活成本低，生活质量高，相对安全。如果你从事可以线上工作的行业，通过这种方式你可以快速实现最终目标，即你的'海岸财务自由'。如你所说，如果你想要智力资本，世界上只有一个地方像美国这样高度集中，既有资金资本又有智力资本。

So we're seeing a lot of Americans moving down to Latin America. That's the arbitrage here, or Colombia as well. So into South America, Latin America, it's cheap, high quality of life, relatively safe. And if you're in a business where you can work online, okay, you you can get to your end goal, your coast fire thing super fast by doing that. If you want to your point, if you want intellectual capital, there is only one place in the world that has it in such high densities as The US, capital and intellectual capital.

亚洲也有，印度也有。你知道，到处都有，但它们都缺少不同形式的资本。所以要根据你的最终目标来利用这些。

Asia has it. India has it. You know, it's all around, but they're all missing different forms of it. So it's using that for your end goals.

英国呢？

What about The UK?

英国不行，因为英国现在的态度已经变成'我们就是不配拥有好东西'。他们不想。如果我跟我朋友聊，他们不想投资。他们只想要更大的房子和下一辆租赁车。现在英国人在制度层面就不快乐，这种情况已经持续一段时间了。

Can't do it because The UK's attitude now has become, we just can't have nice things. They don't want to. If I speak to my friends, they don't want to invest. They just want to have the bigger house and the next car on lease. People are institutionally unhappy in The UK right now, and that has been for a while.

所以我们不再有创业文化了。已经被扼杀了。欧洲也是。不只是英国，整个欧洲都发生了同样的事情。

And so we don't have a culture of entrepreneurialism left. It's been stamped out. Europe too. So it's not just The UK. Everywhere in Europe, the same thing has happened.

人们就是不再相信自己能拥有好东西了。

People just don't believe they can have nice things anymore.

当你思考你对英国的理解时，比如，核心信息是什么？如果要用一个营销口号来形容英国，你作为投资者、创业者，想到英国时脑海里会出现什么？会冒出什么想法？

When you think about the narrative that you understand of The UK, like, what is the the message? So if it was like a marketing slogan, The UK, you're an investor, you're an entrepreneur, what what's in your head when you think of The UK? What comes out?

实际上它是什么，或者你会如何向他人推销英国？

What is it in reality, or what would be how would you sell The UK to others?

不，我是说，你认为当前英国作为一个投资目的地的叙事是什么？

No. I'm saying, like, what do you think what do you think the narrative of The UK is right now as an investor

和创业之地？我觉得它现在就像个死水潭。死水潭？

and entrepreneur? I think it just feels like a backwater. Backwater?

是的。什么是

Yeah. What's an

经济死水？别忘了，在90年代末和2000年代，这里曾是全球金融业的中心。它是世界广告业的中心。所有创意产业都集中在这里，全部以伦敦为基础。

economic backwater? So don't forget, in the late '90s and 2000s, it was this entire center of the world's financial industry. It was the center of the world's advertising industry. It was some of the all the creative industries. It was all based in London.

我们失去了所有这一切。为什么？监管。

We lost all of it. Why? Regulation.

所以你认为政府失策了？

So you think it's the government's government have misstepped?

是的。政府失策了，美国重新掌控了银行体系，因为他们在英国和欧洲对待资本要求的方式与美国不同。他们成功让华尔街回归华尔街。一切都转移了。我当时在高盛工作。

Yeah. The government misstepped, and The US took the banking system back because how they treated capital requirements in The UK and Europe was different than The US. They managed to get Wall Street back to Wall Street. It all moved. I was working for Goldman Sachs.

伦敦曾是他们最大的办公室。摩根大通、摩根士丹利等所有公司都是如此。而我们却阻止了这一切。现在我们又看到了类似情况。新兴行业正在崛起。

London was their biggest office. Same for JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, everybody. And we just stopped it. And now we're seeing it again. We've got newer industries rising.

我们有人工智能、加密货币。人工智能起源于剑桥。我认为大部分技术来自谷歌DeepMind和剑桥大学。但我们搞砸了。

We've got AI, crypto. AI came out of Cambridge. I think it was the Google Deep Mind. I think it was Cambridge University for most of that stuff. And we dropped the ball.

我们在金融行业搞砸了，在人工智能领域也搞砸了。牛津、剑桥、帝国理工等学府涌现出大量顶尖人才，但我们没有善加利用。他们都去了美国。

We dropped the ball in the finance industry. We dropped the ball in AI. We get this massive talent density coming out of Oxford and Cambridge, Imperial College, all these others. And we don't use it. They all move to The US.

我们本拥有加密货币行业，也曾参与其中。这个我们也搞砸了。我们在所有事情上都彻底失败了。欧洲正在通过'我们不想这么做'的态度主动关闭每一个机会之门。别忘了，现在欧洲大部分国家都是老龄化社会。

We had the crypto industry of which we were part of that. We dropped that ball too. We dropped the whole ball on everything. And Europe is actively shutting the door on every opportunity by saying, we don't want to do this. Don't forget, they're a nation of old people now, most of Europe.

所以他们宁愿维持现状不作任何改变。但如果我们回到那个经济增长的公式，人口增长是关键驱动力。你需要持续增长的人口，只是需要以正确的方式实现。所以他们归咎于此，但整个经济机器的根本原因是没人生孩子。人口结构问题是所有问题的根源。

So they'd rather just not have any change. But if we go back to that economic formula for GDP growth, population growth is the key driver. You need a growing population over time, but it just needs to be done in the right way. So they're blaming that, but the whole economic machine is because nobody's had kids. The demographic problem is the structure of everything.

问题在于没人生孩子，所以就没有经济增长。于是你试图引入新劳动力来创造增长。你又不想要这样，所以他们被拒之门外。与此同时，经济放缓，人们的生活水平倒退。

And the problem is nobody's had kids, so you don't have economic growth. So then you try and bring in new workers to create growth. You don't want that, so they get thrown out. Meanwhile, the economy slows down. People get pulled back.

他们不再愿意承担风险了。整个体系现在不得不为国民医疗服务体系买单来供养这些老年人。没有足够的年轻人来支撑这一切。政府债务日益加重。债券收益率正在上升。

They don't want to take risk anymore. The whole system is now having to pay for the National Health Service to pay for these old people. There's not enough kids to support all of that. The governments are getting more in debt. Bond yields are going up.

所有人都在问，到底发生了什么？其实从一开始这就是人口结构变化的结果。

Everyone's like, what's going on? It's all been a function of demographics from day one.

总结陈词，汉弗莱。最终立场。人们最应该思考的重要问题是什么？你会如何收尾？有没有什么我应该问但没问到你的问题？

Closing arguments, Humphrey. Closing position. What's the most important thing people should be thinking about? How would you round off? Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you?

是的。我认为我的个人哲学就是：个人财务归根结底取决于你的收入减去支出。所以要深入了解这两项。懂得如何推动这两方面。然后真正留意你把钱花在什么地方。

Yeah. I think that my my personal philosophy is just that personal finances comes down to your income minus your expenses. So know those two intimately. Know how to drive both of those two. And then just really watch what you spend your money on.

对吧？比如汽车，美国平均每月的汽车贷款是745美元。如果可以的话尽量避开这个。努力做到合理消费。一切都关乎持续性和合理性，我认为这些小小的决定会累积成一个更加光明的未来。

Right? Like the car the average car payment in America is $7.45 a month. Stay away from that if you can. Try to try to be reasonable. Everything is about being consistent and reasonable, and I think those small decisions compound to a much brighter future.

对我来说，首先是自我教育。我们刚才讨论了——你了解自己的财务状况吗？你的银行账户情况如何？你想要实现什么目标？所以你要自我教育。

Well, for me, first thing is educate yourself. You don't know we talked about what do your finances look like? What does your bank account look like? What are you trying to achieve? So you educate yourself.

学习投资知识。最重要的是进行投资。投资优于储蓄是达成目标的唯一途径。因为如果不这样做，你的钱就会贬值。然后就是付诸行动。

Learn about investing. Invest above all things. Investing above saving is the only way you're going to get there. Because if not, your money goes down. And then just do it.

做一笔交易。做一次投资。失败。学习。然后再做一次，再做一次。

Make a trade. Make an investment. Fail. Learn. Do it again and do it again.

并且不断学习、自我教育。然后让自己置身于一个良好的人脉网络中。无论是在推特上，还是在社交媒体上，找到一个你可以学习的人群网络，并不断扩展这个网络。这些事情会让你不断进步。只要你不断自我教育，你就不会失败。

And keep learning, educating. And then surround yourself by a good network. Just be whether it's even on Twitter, on social media, find a network of people that you can learn from, add to the network. And those things, you'll you'll get ahead. You can't fail if you educate yourself.

只需开始行动，然后学习，持续去做，同时建立一个强大的人脉网络。还有，买比特币？这还用说。

Just get started, and then learn, keep doing it then, and just grow a great network. And buy Bitcoin? Obviously.

你持有什么币？

What what what coins do you own

在加密货币方面？这可能会引起更多争议了。实际上，我为了留作纪念只持有一个比特币。

in crypto? So I so this is gonna get more contentious now. So I actually don't I own just one Bitcoin for posterity's sake.

哦，靠。好吧。那我得删除这期节目了。我的

Oh, fuck. Okay. So I own I'll delete the episode then. My

我主要持有SUI，也就是SUI代币。这是源自Facebook的加密网络，不过我也是基金会成员。但我实际上把大部分流动资产都投入了其中。此外，我在以太坊上持有大量数字艺术品，因为对我来说那是长期的价值储存方式。NFTs？

I own mainly SUI, which is the which is the SUI. The crypto network that came out of Facebook, but I'm also on the foundation as well. But I actually put most of my liquid net worth into that. And then I own a lot of digital art on Ethereum because that's a long term store of value for me. NFTs?

是的，NFT。所以我经常在比特币、以太坊、Solana和SUI之间转换。我不做短线交易，这些都是长期持有。我可能每两年调整一次我的资产配置。

Yeah, NFTs. And so I've moved around a lot between Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and SUI. I don't trade. So these are long term holds. I might change once every two years, change my allocation.

但总的来说，都是那些主流的大币种。

So but it's all generally all the big big tokens.

Jaspreet，请做总结陈述。

And Jaspreet, closing statements.

首先，感谢Raul Humphrey和Theme组织了这次活动。我想补充的是，互联网上有太多——恕我直言——垃圾信息，把被动收入或巨额财富浪漫化、幻想化，让人觉得这很容易实现，以至于有时很难看清实际该如何做到。我想说的是，没有什么事情是容易的，但无论你身处何地、背景如何、来自哪里，改变总是可能的，但这需要付出努力。我认为帮助你达到目标的最好方式就是努力工作、做出牺牲，我称之为‘十年牺牲期’。这样你才能拥有大多数人梦寐以求的东西。

Well, first off, thank you, Raul Humphrey, and Theme for putting this together. This is a and to add on to everything that you guys said, for me, I think there's a lot of, for lack of a better word, crap on the Internet of people romanticizing and fantasizing how easy it is for passive income or for insane levels of wealth, where it becomes sometimes hard to see how you could actually do that. And what I'd like to say is, look, nothing comes easy, but change can always be made regardless of where you are, what your background is, where you come from, but it's going to take work. And I think the best thing to help your outcome to get to where you want to go is hard work, sacrifice, put in what I call a decade of sacrifice. That way you can have what most people dream of.

而你能做到这一点的唯一原因，是因为你愿意做大多数人不愿意做的事。

And the only reason why you're able to get there is because you're willing to do what the majority of people are not willing to do.

用一个词来说，你对AI是乐观还是悲观？

And in a word, AI positive about it or pessimistic?

乐观。

Positive.

这是我们得到过的最好工具。

Best tool we've ever been given.

很乐观。

Optimistic.

是的。好的。

Yeah. Okay.

很好。令人耳目一新。对你们来说非常耳目一新。非常感谢大家今天抽出时间。我会把你们告诉我的应该引导观众关注的三大事项链接放在下面。

Good. Refreshing. Very refreshing to you. Thank you all so much for giving me your time today. I'm I'm gonna link the top three things that you tell me we should direct the audience to below.

所以在这段对话结束后，我会请你们给我三个可以找到你们的渠道。第一个是你们的频道，也就是你们的YouTube频道。你们都是非常大型的YouTuber，拥有惊人的频道，这些频道我已经关注很多很多年了。你们还有其它觉得对观众相关的内容希望我链接的吗？

So I'll ask you after this conversation to give me three things where people can find you. The first is gonna be your channels, so your channels on YouTube. You're all very large YouTubers and have incredible channels, channels that I followed for many, many years. Is there anything else that you guys would like me to link that you think is gonna be pertinent to the audience?

嗯，我们有一个为投资者提供的免费通讯，每天都会发布。是的，叫做《市场简报》。我觉得这个会很不错。

Well, we have a free newsletter for investors that we publish every single day Yeah. Called Market Briefs. I think that would be a great one.

我也会链接这个。还有别的吗？

I'll link that one as well. Anything else?

Real Vision是一个简单的地方。它是一个简单的家园，让每个人都能找到他们所需的东西。

Real Vision is a simple place. It's a simple home for everybody to find what they need.

那么网站是realvision.com吗？

So The website, realvision.com?

或者realvision.com。

Or realvision.com.

好的。那么，Humphrey呢？

Okay. And, Humphrey?

我现在正在建立一个网站，基本上是我的指南，但它是我的指南，关于

And I'm building a website right now that's basically my my guide, but it's my guide on

不同的

different