娜塔莉·道森：被动收入的残酷现实！这个PPF框架让你5年内收入翻10倍

于是你又会陷入沟通瓶颈，因为你要费劲理解Twitch，还觉得自己必须成为Twitch专家。

And so you either, again, bottleneck yourself in this communication because you're struggling to understand this thing, You're startling to understand Twitch, and then you feel like you have to become a Twitch master.

网友会喜欢这个的。

People online are going to love this.

谁知道呢。

No idea.

但其实你本应该把精力放在其他对业务更重要的事情上，而不是非要成为世界顶尖Twitch主播。

But you're going to become like the world's greatest Twitch person when really what you should have been doing is these other things for your business.

这个人你应该充分信任，但要为他们规划好步骤，让他们明白这就是我对此事如此投入的原因。

And this person you should trust enough, but lay out enough steps for them to say, this is why I'm committed to this.

对我来说值得投资5000美元，这就是我的承诺。

It's important enough for me to invest $5,000 That's my commitment.

作为回报，我要求的是你也对我作出承诺，这样我们才能达成一致。

What I'm asking for in return is your commitment back to me so that we're aligned.

一旦我得到你的承诺（而我已经给出了我的承诺），我们就可以立即开始执行。

And if I once I have your commitment, I've already given you mine, let's just hop right into execution.

但很多时候，我们直接跳到执行阶段，却没有先确认对方是否真的感兴趣。

But so often, drop right into execution without first getting the commitment from the other person that they're even interested.

然后我们白白等待四周、八周甚至十二周，以为事情会有进展，结果却毫无动静。

And then we wait four weeks or eight weeks or twelve weeks thinking something is happening when it is not happening.

我们因此浪费了时间，失去了发展势头，消磨了成长所需的激情与热忱。

And we lose time, momentum, excitement, enthusiasm about growing.

我们对人的信任度也随之下降——怀疑他们是否真的值得信赖。

And our confidence in people that we can actually trust them goes down.

我听你提到过要避免使用'我认为''我感觉'这类表述，主张用更高确信度的方式与人沟通。

I've heard you talk about avoiding phrases like I think, I feel, and being more high conviction and certain with the way that you communicate with people.

能详细说说吗？

Explain that to me.

说实话，这个观点对我来说可能已经过时了。

That honestly might be outdated for me.

是的。

Yeah.

因为在当今这个表达观点至关重要的时代，说出'我认为这是正确道路'并非坏事，尤其当你并不确定时。

Because in a day and age where it's important to share your point of view, it's not a bad thing to say, I think this is the right path, especially if you aren't certain.

这正体现了你沟通这些想法时的力量与诚信。

And it shows strength and integrity that you are communicating that you're thinking this.

你并不完全确定，而是在依赖他人。

You don't know for sure, and you're relying on other people.

但如果只是填充词，比如有人说'我觉得我们应该这样做，我认为这是Cardone Ventures该走的方向'，这种说法就缺乏感染力。

Now, if it is just a filler word, if somebody says, I think we should do this, and this is the direction that I think we should take Cardone Ventures, that wouldn't be very engaging.

因此在这种语境下，你绝对不该使用'我认为'或'可能'这类增加不确定感的填充短语。

So in that context, you absolutely should not be using these filler phrases of I think or maybe and adding lack of certainty.

某种程度上，你正在与身边的每个人进行确定性博弈——无论是投资者、客户、患者、团队成员、合作伙伴还是供应商。

At some level, you're playing a certainty game with everybody around you, whether they are investors, clients, patients, team members, partners, vendors.

所以使用那些降低人们对方向确定性的措辞，无助于让他们支持你。

And so using phrases that decrease people's certainty in your direction isn't going to help them help you.

但如果你确实不确定，坦然承认反而能建立信任。

But if you actually are uncertain, it is Okay to be transparent about that, and it actually builds trust.

说来有趣，我刚说'我觉得'——我经常思考这个问题，因为我发现自己写邮件时总用'我觉得'开头。

I think it's funny, I just said I think I think about this a lot because I I find myself writing out emails and messages where I've written I think in them.

90%的情况下我都会改成'我相信'。

And I I'd say 90% of the time, change it to I believe.

我觉得这种措辞框架有着微妙差异。

And I think there's something different about that framing.

每当我写'我相信'时，既表明这是个有待验证的信念，又带着强烈确信感——比如'我相信我们会...'、'我相信那将实现...'这样的表述

Whenever I write I believe, it feels it's still appreciating that this is a belief that I have and I don't have certainty on this hypothesis, but there's something high conviction about the phrase, I believe we're going to blah blah blah blah, and I believe that will happen blah blah blah.

实际感受比我想象的要好得多。

It feels much better than I think.

我觉得它有点脆弱。

I think it's a bit flimsy.

我同意你的看法。

I'm gonna agree with you.

而且像风中飘摇的塑料袋一样，所以。

And a bit plastic bag in the wind, so.

但当你这样说时，让我与你产生共鸣，因为这确实像是一种意识流，你在思考某些事情。

But when you say it like this, it makes me connect to you because it actually feels like it's a stream of consciousness that you are thinking something.

比起在邮件中说'我相信'显得更有权威性。

Instead of in an email, you saying I believe is much more authoritative.

我要提醒领导者们，在使用'我相信'这类词汇或对某事表现得十分确定时，务必确保你是真的确定或真的相信，尤其是随着业务规模扩大。

I would caution leaders when it comes to using words like I believe or being certain about really ensuring that you are certain or you really do believe something, especially as your business grows.

如果你从百万美元做到千万美元业务，突然身边多了一层管理者，就可能形成回音室效应。

If you're doing a million dollars and now you have a $10,000,000 business and all of a sudden you have a layer of leaders around you, it can become an echo chamber.

你表现得越确定（或看似确定），当你其实需要他人协作时，人们就越不敢提出异议——即便你本不那么确定，却表现得斩钉截铁。

And the more certain you are, or at least you seem to be, the less likely people are going to push back on you when you might actually need them to collaborate and you weren't so certain, but you came off with such certainty.

我发现这是领导者必须把握的平衡点，尤其当他们更精通自身优势领域，或在组织中晋升、自行创业时。

And I find that that's a balance that leaders have to find as they become more competent in their zone of genius and as they get higher up in organizations or start their own organization themselves.

如果他们不能明确表达哪些事尚不确定，却含糊其辞，就可能造成不必要的压力。

If they aren't really communicating what things they aren't certain of, but they're waffling on, it can cause unnecessary duress.

说到掌控日程表，这也是转型的核心要素。

Talk about mastering your calendar as well, being central to transformation.

为什么这件事如此重要，这意味着什么？

Why is why is this so important, and what does that mean?

嗯，如果你想在生活中获得任何东西，你实际上必须花时间去得到它。

Well, if you want anything in life, you actually have to spend time to get that thing.

事情不会像互联网告诉你的那样神奇地出现在人们的生活中。

Things don't just magically manifest into people's lives despite what the Internet tells you.

因此，为了拥有我想要的感情关系，我实际上必须投入时间与我的伴侣相处。

So in order for me to have the relationship that I want to have, I actually have to invest time with my significant other.

我不会神奇地就拥有一段美满的婚姻。

It's not just going to magically happen that I'm going to have an amazing marriage.

如果想拥有好朋友，就必须实际花时间与朋友相处。

If I want to have great friends, actually have to spend time with my friends.

所以你的日程表反映并代表了你认为重要的事物，以及它们是否与你每天的目标一致或偏离。

And so your calendar is a reflection and a representation of what you find to be important and is in alignment or out of alignment with the goals that you have every single day.

如果我在业务创收上投入的时间为零，那么到年底发现收入与去年持平时就不该感到惊讶。

So if I have zero time being spent on generating revenue inside my business, it shouldn't surprise me at the end of the year that I'm doing the same amount of revenue that I did last year.

为什么？

Why?

因为我在最关键的事情（即创收）上完全没有投入时间让它增长。

I spent zero time on the one thing, AKA revenue generation, in order for it to grow.

因此对我来说，我每天都在教导企业主审视他们的日程表。

So for me, my calendar and I teach business owners this every single day.

你必须每天都查看它。

You have to look at it every day.

你必须开始规划时间，除非你希望生活只是靠运气。

You have to start to align your time unless you want your life to be something that just is a story of luck.

我不知道你怎么想，但我对靠运气生活不感兴趣，因为我认为这实际上会导致大量的自我怀疑和不确定性。

I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in having a life of luck because I think that actually leads to a significant amount of self doubt and uncertainty.

哦，难道仅仅因为我幸运，就要把某些事交给命运，只因为我碰巧在对的时间出现在对的地方？

Oh, just because I'm lucky, I'm going to leave something to being out of my control, just because I happen to be at the right place at the right time.

当然，这些因素确实存在。

Of course, there are those components.

在我的职业生涯中，我确实多次在对的时间出现在对的地方。

I have been at the right place at the right time throughout my career.

但如果你有目标并渴望改变现状，那么控制时间投入的方式能让你获得更多实现理想的机会。

But the way that you control where you spend your time gives you the most amount of at bats to the opportunities that you want if you have goals and aspirations to have a different life than you currently have.

对我来说，直到今天我仍希望未来能拥有不同的生活。

And to me, still to this day, I want to have a different life in the future.

我憧憬着40岁、50岁和60岁时更充实的自己。

And I imagine a more enriched version of my life at 40 and at 50 and at 60.

我认为如果人们对自己足够诚实，他们也会想要不同版本的人生。

And I think if people were really honest with themselves, they want a different version of their lives, too.

我不认为有人会听这个播客或看这个节目却不渴望改变——无论是人际关系、健康状况、收入水平还是交友圈子。

I don't think someone listens to this podcast or watches this show without wanting to be something different or to have something different, whether it's relationship or different health situation or different income, different friends.

说真的，谁不想要一群酷毙了的朋友一起做些牛逼的事呢？

I mean, how many people would want different friends, like badass friends to do cool shit with?

那么，怎样才能实现呢？

Well, how do you get that?

好的，我需要真正逆向规划我的时间和日常行为，以接近那些在做类似事情的人。

Okay, I would need to actually reverse engineer using my time and what I do every single day to get me closer to people who are doing those similar things.

因此，我可能需要做出两年的牺牲，才能融入人群，为那些有意与我交友的人提供价值。

And so that might actually take me making sacrifices for two years in order to be able to be around people, to be able to give value to people who'd be interested in being my friend.

这听起来有点策略性，但确实如此。

And it sounds a little strategic, but it is.

因为你不会仅仅因为碰巧在正确的时间出现在正确的地方，就能让优秀的人进入你的生活。

Because you don't just get great people in your life because you happen to be at the right place at the right time.

你通过做伟大的事来吸引伟大的人，因为伟大的人希望与同样在做伟大事情的人相处。

You get great people by doing great things because great people want to spend time around other people who are doing great things.

而唯一能确保你在不靠运气或特定形象的情况下知道自己正在做伟大事情的方法，就是管理和真正创造属于自己的时间。

And the only way that you can certainly know that you were doing great things without getting lucky or happening to look a certain way so that you get invited into certain places is by managing and really creating your own time.

那么在这个等式里，努力工作又占什么位置呢？

What about hard work in this equation?

你知道，人们总在谈论工作与生活的平衡，而我认为很多人什么都想要。

You know, people talk a lot about work life balance, and I think a lot of people want everything.

我们想在40岁时拥有美满的家庭、良好的人际关系和成功的事业。

We want to, you know, get to 40, have the have the great family, have great relationships, have a great business.

我的意思是，这是我们所有人理想的结果。

I mean, that's an ideal outcome for all of us.

关于努力工作的概念，以及它有多关键或无足轻重，你会对人们说些什么？

What would you say to people about the concept of working hard and how critical or unimportant that is?

努力工作是最重要的事情。

Working hard is the most important thing.

若想达成非凡或与众不同的目标，不付出努力是绝无可能的。

You cannot get to where you want to go if it's truly something that is unusual or out of the ordinary without working hard.

当然你也可以尝试走捷径。

And you could try to hack it.

假设某人天生丽质。

Let's say somebody happens to be beautiful.

或许你能因此获得游艇和恋情，因为你的美貌让人愿意与你交往，毕竟你是个好人。

I guess you could get the yacht and a relationship because you're beautiful and somebody is willing to be in a relationship with you because you're a good person.

但我见过这类人，他们内心充满难以承受的恐惧与焦虑，因为他们并不真正清楚自己的定位，也没有为获得这一切付出应有的努力。

But I've met those people, and those people have crippling fear and anxiety because they don't actually know what their place is, and they didn't do what was required to have the thing.

所以回到'存在、行动、拥有'这个逻辑。

So going back to, like, be, do, have.

中彩票的人坐拥巨额财富。

People who win the lottery, they have all the money.

继承家产的人拥有万贯家财。

People who inherit wealth, they have all the money.

这正是我曾经的恐惧。

This was my fear.

我曾以为能通过丈夫的关系获得财富。

I was going to have money because I'm connected to my husband.

但直到我真正通过努力成为配得上这份幸福的人，我才真正创造出属于自己的幸福。

But I didn't do the work and become the person that created the happiness until I did do the work to become the person, to have the thing.

正因如今这一切是我亲手所得，我才能真实地拥有它。

So now that I have it, I can actually have it.

当你在生活中能够按正确顺序获得想要的东西时，就不会有这种焦躁不安，不会有这种焦虑，也不会有担心或害怕被人夺走的恐惧。

And when you are able in life to have things that you want because you did it in the right order, you don't have this anxiousness, you don't have this anxiety, you don't have this worry or fear that someone's going to take it from you.

一切终将崩塌，因为你知道自己可以重来。

It's all going to come crashing down because you know that you could redo it.

如果我想在32岁时成为厉害的娜塔莉，20多岁时我得有多拼命？

If I want to be badass Natalie at 32, how hard am I going to have to work in my 20s?

我要非常具体的答案，因为每个人对'努力工作'的定义都不同。

And I want very specifics, because everyone has a different idea of hard work.

想想看，如果你问任何人是否努力工作，百分之百的人都会说'是的'。

Think if you ask anybody if they work hard, think 100% of the population will say, yes, I do.

但实际上，这玩意儿是有等级之分的。

But actually, there's levels to this shit.

那如果我们看普通一周，你工作有多拼？

So how hard do you work if we look at an average week?

你笑什么？

Why are you smiling?

我无时无刻不在工作。

I'm never not working.

所以无论一天有多少小时，我生活中的一切都围绕着我的工作进行了优化。

So however many hours are in a day, everything in my life is optimized to the work that I do.

每一件事都是如此。

Every single thing.

因为我所做的工作对我很重要。

Because the work that I do is important to me.

我正处于人生的一个阶段，真心相信我所做的工作能改变我的生活。

And I'm in a phase of my life where I really do believe that the work that I'm doing can change my life.

它也能改变他人的生活。

It can change others lives.

因此，如果我不花每一分钟思考如何推动我热爱的这份事业，那将是自私的。

So it would be selfish of me to not spend every minute thinking about what I can do in order to help move the work that I do that I'm passionate about.

关于爱好之类的吗？

About hobbies and stuff?

你有什么爱好吗？不工作时你会做什么？

What what do you have any hobbies you think you do to when you're not working?

我喜欢做面部护理。

I love a facial.

面部护理很棒。

Facials are great.

这就是我的全部爱好了。

That's the extent of hobbies.

我没有爱好。

I don't have hobbies.

我真心热爱我每天的工作。

I truly love what I do every single day.

我有幸与美国的支柱力量共事。

I get to work with the backbone of America.

我能帮助那些急需援助、深感困惑的企业主们。

I get to work with business owners who need my help, who are very confused.

因此我每天都深感责任重大，要做出这样的决定：如果莎拉此刻正盯着我的一举一动，听着我如何与丈夫交谈，而莎拉也在与她丈夫相处，她是否会真的认为——‘哦，她确实如自己所说的那样，因为娜塔莉在对话中展现出了这样的特质’？

And so I feel a huge sense of responsibility every single day to actually make decisions that if I had Sarah looking over my shoulder, listening to how I'm talking to my husband and Sarah works with her husband, like, would she actually think, Oh, she is the person that she says she is because of the way that Natalie showed up to this conversation?

如果你肩负着这份责任——我会建议每个人都尽可能以各种方式承担起责任。

And if you have this responsibilityand I would recommend anybodymanufacture in every way possible responsibility.

把更多责任揽到自己身上。

Put more responsibility on yourself.

感受责任的分量。

Feel the weight of responsibility.

因为这很重要，而且承担责任没有任何问题。

Because it's important, and there's nothing wrong with responsibility.

我们应当渴望责任，因为拥有责任的人意味着什么？

We should want responsibility because people who have responsibility, what does that mean?

他们有能力做出回应。

They're able to respond.

我可不想对任何事都无能为力。

Well, I don't want to be unable to respond to anything.

我希望当有人遭遇危机时，第一个电话是打给我的。

I want to be the first phone call when somebody is having a crisis.

我希望当有人庆祝喜事时，第一个电话也是打给我的。

I want to be the first phone call when somebody is celebrating something.

我希望自己既有能力也有办法应对。

I want to be capable and able to respond.

所以对我来说，努力工作的概念只是基本要求，因为我肩负着责任。

And so the idea of hard work, to me, it's just a it's a requirement because I have responsibility.

任何试图走捷径逃避艰苦工作的人，你必须想办法将其游戏化，并通过各种方式——比如创造压力和责任感——来推动自己坚持下去，因为有时这确实令人沮丧且难以承受。

And anybody who is trying to shortcut the hard work, you have to figure out almost how to gamify it for yourself and put different ways of, I guess, creating pressure and responsibility to keep yourself going through it, because sometimes it is frustrating and overwhelming.

但绝不能导致精疲力竭。

And never burnout inducing, though.

我认为这是对艰苦工作的一种误解。

And I think that that's a misconception about hard work.

我不认识任何仍在奋斗的成功人士会因为漫长的一天而精疲力竭。

I don't know successful people who are still in the game who are burnt out by a long day.

他们的反应不会是精疲力竭。

The response isn't burnout.

他们的反应可能是：我想暂时去做点别的事情。

Their response might be, I want to go do something different for a minute.

但我的商业伙伴格兰特·卡登——我对他非常着迷，这是我一生中能建立的最伟大合作关系之一——他说：你不是蜡烛。

But my business partner, Grant Cardone, who I am obsessed with, and that was one of the greatest partnerships I could have ever done in my entire life, he says, You're not a candle.

你不会燃尽。

You can't burn out.

人类不会精疲力竭，因为你根本不是蜡烛。

A human being cannot burn out because you are not a candle.

那么你会感受到压力和紧张的时刻吗？

So can you feel moments of pressure, stress?

会。

Yes.

我从不认为这些时刻是坏事。

I don't take any of those moments as being a bad thing.

感到不堪重负并非消极情绪，因为这意味着你肩负责任。

It's not a negative to feel overwhelmed because you have responsibility.

人们依赖着你。

People depend on you.

人们正指望你去做些事情。

People are relying on you to do something.

很好。

Great.

那为什么要做呢？

So why it?

按你的看法就是会精疲力竭？

Burn out then in your view?

为什么人们会说，你知道吗，我做这件事时筋疲力尽，所以我不得不——这是什么意思？

Why do people say, do know what, I was doing this thing and I got burnt out, so I had towhat is that?

人们实际在做的事并未引向他们想去的地方。

The thing that people do is not actually leading to where they want to go.

所以如果我认为这需要我每天在健身房锻炼两小时，只能吃鸡胸肉和米饭，放弃所有热爱的事物，却永远练不出六块腹肌，那我绝不会这么做。

So if I thought that it was going to require me to work out two hours a day in the gym and only eat chicken and rice and never have any of the things that I love, to never get a six pack, I'm not going to do that.

但如果我认为通过这份艰难、痛苦且折磨的工作，能真正实现目标——比如获得六块腹肌后人生改变，能自信地穿上想买的衣服，成为极少数拥有腹肌的人群——那么凌晨5点孩子起床前去健身的过程就不会让我崩溃。

But if I think that by doing this work, that's going to be hard, and I'm going to hate, and it's going to suck, that I can actually get what I want, and my life would be changed because I'd actually have a six pack, and I'd feel confident I'd be able to buy the clothes that I'd want, and I'd just be part of the very small percentage of the population that has one, then the process of me going to the gym early at 05:00 before my kids get up wouldn't burn me out.

我会意识到这是达成目标的必要步骤，而当目标实现时，你可能会改变主意选择新目标。

I would recognize that this is a step that's necessary to get to my goal, and at which point, when the goal is there, you might change your mind and you might have a different goal.

但当人们成功时，他们很少会在那一刻感到精疲力竭。

But when people win, they are rarely burnt out at that moment.

我目睹过企业主们以数亿美元的价格出售他们的企业。

I've watched business owners sell their businesses for hundreds of millions of dollars.

我见证过他们的银行账户里存入数亿美元。

I've watched them get hundreds of millions of dollars in their bank account.

那种庆祝和喜悦的感觉会持续一小段时间，直到那种意识觉醒——意识到个人有潜力去帮助他人、解决更多问题、产生更大影响。

And that feeling of celebration and joy happens to stay around for a little while until that thing kicks in, which is that individual's potential to help somebody, to solve more problems, to be able to make a larger impact.

因此那个终极目标确实会不断变化。

And so that end goal does end up moving.

球门柱最终会被移动。

The goalpost ends up moving.

实际上这没有任何问题，尽管世人总想告诉你移动目标是不对的，但我认为这完全没问题。

And there's actually nothing wrong with that, Despite the world wanting to tell you that there is something wrong with the fact that you're moving the goalpost, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

只有当你看不到当前牺牲将如何换来六块腹肌时，你才会真正感到精疲力竭。

And you only really get burnt out if you don't see how the sacrifices that you're making are actually going to lead you to the six pack.

如果你注定永远超重，那我当然会选择吃糖果薯片这些心爱的食物。

If you're going to be overweight forever, then of course, I'm just going to eat candy and chips and all the things that I love to eat.

但我确信自己能练出六块腹肌，所以愿意偶尔做出这些牺牲——因为这个目标不会让我倦怠，等实现时我会为自己感到无比骄傲，然后又会转向新目标。

But I do think I can get a six pack, so I'm willing to make some of these sacrifices here and there because the goal isn't going to allow me to get burnt out because I'm going be so freaking proud of myself by the time I reach that goal, at which point I'm going to change it to a different goal.

到那时，这游戏对我而言依然会充满趣味和激情。

And it's going to be just as interesting and exciting of a game for me to play at that point in my life.

我们之前讨论过责任问题，你总是每周工作七天，只在做面部护理时才休息。

We talked about responsibility earlier, and you work seven days a week all the time, but only take time off for facials.

我很了解我的观众，知道他们中有人会想：这对你来说当然容易。

There's a I know my audience well enough to know that some of them will be thinking, that's alright for you.

你没有孩子。

You haven't got kids.

完全正确。

Totally.

对于那些有很多其他责任的人，你如何回应这种反驳？

How do you respond to that rebuttal for people that have, you know, lots of other responsibilities?

他们是对的。

They're right.

你可以有孩子，成为优秀的父母，同时还能投入大量时间工作。

You can have kids and be a great parent and also work a lot.

所以你的爱好就不是像我这样去做面部护理，而是有意识地花时间陪伴孩子。

And so then your hobby, instead of me getting a facial, would be you actually spending intentional time with your kids.

但我会问他们这个问题。

But I would ask them this question.

陪伴孩子的适当时间是多少？

What is the appropriate amount of time to spend with your kids?

比如，具体要多少时间？

Like, how much is that?

你觉得花多少时间陪孩子会让你感到满意？

What would make you feel good about how much time you spent with your kids?

是每天两小时吗？

Is it two hours a day?

好的，很好。

Okay, great.

两小时。

Two hours.

专注时间。

Focus time.

专属时间。

Dedicated time.

不是四小时。

Not four hours.

其中一半时间花在看电视、刷社交媒体、打电话、做晚饭上。

Half of that on television, on social media, making calls, making dinner.

不，那样行不通。

No, that's not workable.

两小时比较合理。

Two hours makes sense.

或者三小时，取决于个人目标，以及他们希望投入多少时间成为积极参与孩子生活的父母。

Or three hours, whatever that person's goal is, with the amount of time that they want to spend being an active parent, being somebody actively involved in that person's life.

但我们总爱找借口：'哦，我有生病的父母'。

But we tend to just use these excuses: Oh, I have sick parents.

'哦，我有孩子'。

Oh, I have kids.

'哦，我有...' 我发现真正成功的人往往也有所有这些'哦，我有'的情况。

Oh, I have And I find that very successful people happen to have all of those, Oh, I haves.

他们中许多人（并非全部）能够想明白：'好，现在我要全神贯注地在医院陪父亲度过这90分钟'。

And many of them, not all of them, but many of them are able to figure out, Okay, I'm going to spend this ninety minutes at the hospital fully locked in to my dad right now.

我父亲其实并不需要我陪他六小时。

My dad doesn't actually need me for six hours.

我父亲只需要我陪他九十分钟。

My dad needs me for ninety minutes.

那段时光非常珍贵。

That time is precious.

这段时间是被预留出来的。

It's blocked off.

我正在为这件事腾出时间。

I'm making the time for that.

除此之外，你还需要努力工作来打造自己想要的生活。

And then outside of that, it is working in order to build the life that you want.

因为你知道吗？

Because guess what?

你的父亲终将离世。

Your dad is going to pass away.

无论你父亲是一年后还是六年后离世，你与他共度的时光都值得你特意为之留出时间。

If your dad passes away in a year from now and six years from now, the amount of time that you spent with him needs to be important enough for you to make that time.

我希望每个人都能留出必要的时间，让自己觉得尽到了为人子女的责任，尽到了照顾者的义务，无论具体角色是什么。

I would hope that everybody makes the amount of time that is necessary for them to feel like they did their job as the child, did their job as the caretaker, whatever the role is.

但你打算什么时候开始用别人的处境，来阻止自己做想做的事、创造想要的生活呢？

But at what point are you going to use other people's circumstances to stop you from doing what you want to do and creating what you want to have?

对于那些非常用心陪伴孩子、不拿孩子当借口的父母，我完全支持你们花足够的时间做个好家长。

And for the parent who is very intentional with their kids and doesn't use their kids as an excuse, I am all for spending as much time as required for you to be a good parent.

我发现更普遍的情况是，人们总是用孩子、家庭、自身处境、教育背景或经验不足作为无法完成某事的借口。

It's that I find that the other side is far more prevalent, which is I'm using my kids, family, I'm using my circumstances, I'm using my education, my lack of experience as a reason for why I can't do this thing.

由于我整天与人打交道，当我遇到这类人时，最快的解决方式是：'嘿，莎拉，把手机给我看一下。'

And when I find peoplebecause I work with people all day, every daywhen I find people like that, the fastest way to handle that is to be like, Hey, Sarah, let me see your phone real fast.

莎拉会交出手机，然后我会打开她手机上的屏幕使用时间记录。

Sarah will give me your phone, and I'll open up the screen time on her phone.

如果她的屏幕使用时间显示看了三小时网飞或一个半小时Instagram，那就把这些时间重新分配给你想做的事情。

And if the screen time on her phone has three hours of Netflix or an hour and a half of Instagram, like, just reallocate that time to the thing that you want to go build.

善用你的日程表。

Use your calendar.

用时间去构建你真正想要的生活，而不是一边说着'我有孩子'，一边心不在焉地应付孩子，未尽父母之责——无论你对'父母'如何定义。

Use your time for building the life that you actually want to have instead of saying, Oh, I have kids, while also being distracted with your kids and not being a parent, whatever that definition for you is, a parent to them.

我不认为孩子看到父母拼命工作会受到负面影响。

I don't think that kids are negatively impacted by watching their parents work their asses off.

我认为这种成长方式反而充满激励。

I think that that is an inspiring way to grow up.

我的双亲当年就工作得非常拼命。

I had two parents who worked their tails off.

我确信自己现在的样子，部分源于拥有这样了不起的父母——他们勤奋工作，并把个人目标和成功视为重要之事。

And I do think that I am part of the way that I am because I had such incredible parents who worked hard and who prioritized their own goals and their own success as something that was important.

我甚至认为这些应该比孩子更重要。

And I would also argue it should be more important than I am.

为人父母不意味着孩子必须是你生命的全部，也不该过度耗费所有时间在他们身上。

Just because you're a parent shouldn't mean that your kids are the most important thing in your life, and you have to over index on spending all of your time there.

在你看来，是快乐满足地生活更重要，还是即使牺牲满足感也要追求成功更重要？

What matters more being, in your view, being happy and content with your life or being successful, even if it comes at the cost of contentment?

它们是一回事。

They are the same thing.

它们没有区别。

They're not different.

我不认为成功和幸福是截然对立的。

I do not find success and happiness on two polar opposites.

当我创造事物时，当我在现实世界中看到自己完成了想做的事情时，无论是创造收入、招聘人员还是帮助企业家，那才是我最快乐的时候——这些正是通往成功的过程。

I am happy when I create things and when I can see in the physical universe that I've done something that I wanted to do, whether that's driving revenue, hiring people, helping a business owner, that is when I am the happiest when I am doing the things that are part of becoming successful.

那么正在刷Netflix的莎拉，她是满足且快乐的吗？

So if Sarah, who's scrolling on Netflix, is is content and happy?

但她既不满足也不快乐。

She's not content or happy, though.

你怎么知道？

How do you know?

因为她看的是什么？

Because what is she watching?

她看的是《日落豪宅》吗？看着别人过着拥有豪宅豪车的生活——如果莎拉真心相信自己也能拥有这些，她难道不渴望吗？

Is she watching Selling Sunset and watching other people live their lives and touring these gorgeous homes and having these fancy things that Sarah would love to have if she really thought she could have those things?

如果她真的相信过哪怕一秒，并且明白这些是必经步骤，我相信她会选择真正拥有而非旁观。

If she really actually believed that for a second, and these are the steps that are part of getting there, I do believe that she would choose actually having it versus watching it.

我想这取决于代价是什么。

I guess it depends on what it comes at the expense of.

因为我认识不少亿万富翁，但有时他们并不是我认识的最快乐的人。

Because I know a bunch of billionaires, and they're not amongst the happiest people I know sometimes.

我是说，偶尔有一两个我认为是真正快乐满足的。

I mean, there's the odd one or two that I think are really, you know, really happy and content.

但在我家乡有些朋友，他们可能更快乐，这些人从未朝九晚五地上过班等等。

But then I've got friends that, you know, live in my hometown who I think are probably happier and that never, you know, have a nine to five job, etcetera.

我觉得他们可能更快乐些。

And I would say they're probably happier.

所以在我看来，房子本身并非众人幸福的源泉，尽管对你甚至可能对——

So if so that the house, in my mind, doesn't strike me as being the source of everyone's happiness, even though for for you and maybe even for

我来说

me.

嗯

Mhmm.

或许追求这些东西能给我们某种稳定感

Maybe that is the pursuit of those things gives us some kind of stability Mhmm.

由于我们自身的创伤、思维模式和不安感等等

Because of our own trauma and our own wiring and our own insecurities, etcetera.

但对莎拉而言，她可能成长环境优渥美好，感到非常安全踏实，所以并不匮乏

But for Sarah, maybe she had such a cushy, lovely upbringing, and she felt so safe and secure, and that she didn't she wasn't without.

她可能光是看网飞剧遛狗就感到无比幸福

That maybe she's, like, perfectly happy just vicariously watching Netflix and walking her dog.

我拒绝相信这种可能性

I refuse to believe that that's possible.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

莎拉一离开她为自己营造的那个美好小天地——Netflix的世界，那个充满她无法拥有、无法做到之事的小天地，就立刻被现实狠狠打脸。她无法创造那些经历，也无法给予周围人这些体验，因为她一直分心，没有真正去构建她想要的生活。

Sarah is slapped in the face as soon as she leaves that nice little escape that she's created for herself of Netflix, of all the things that she can't have and that she can't do, and the experiences she can't create for herself that she could never give to people around her because she was distracted and not actually building what she wanted to build.

不过也许这就是她想构建的生活呢。

Maybe that's what she wanted to build, though.

一种在社交媒体和Netflix上观看别人生活的人生。

A life of watching other people's lives on social media and Netflix.

人们喜欢看电影之类的，也喜欢刷手机。

People like watching movies and stuff, and they like scrolling.

而且你知道，他们喜欢做做饭、钩钩针，遛遛狗，陪陪孩子。

And, you know, they they like cooking and then do a bit of crochet, then walk the dog and spend time with the kids.

人们就喜欢这样。

People people like that.

我年轻时，比如18、19、20岁，甚至25岁左右，我觉得这种生活根本不可能。

I when I was younger, you know, when I was, like, 18, 19, 20, 25, whatever, I didn't think it was possible.

我以为所有人都在假装幸福。嗯。

I thought that everyone was pretending Mhmm.

觉得他们，你知道，他们其实很快乐。

That they, you know, that they were happy.

但随着年龄增长，当我开始意识到自己有点问题时，我越来越清楚地明白：如果我早年生活的环境稍有不同，我就不会是现在这样。

But as I got older and as I started to realize that I'm a bit fucked up, it became more and more clear to me that actually, had the circumstances of my earlier life been slightly different, I wouldn't be the way that I am.

而我也不会想要那些我以为自己想要的东西。

And I wouldn't want the things that I think I want.

我也不会从追求物质中获得满足感和稳定感。

And I wouldn't get the contentment and stability from the pursuit of things.

因此这是合理的。

And so it's plausible.

如果你看看你的兄弟姐妹，你会想，为什么我们如此不同？

If you even look at your siblings, you go, well, how are we all so different?

比如，为什么我每周七天都在工作，而我的某些兄弟姐妹却选择不这样？

Like, you know, why why why am I working seven days a week every single day and some of my siblings choose not to?

这是因为我们的思维方式不同，我们从不同事物中获得快乐。

It's because we have we have different wiring and we get happiness from different things.

他们做的某些事，我会觉得我讨厌那样。

And some of the things they do, I go, I'd I'd hate that.

我的大脑会因为想着电子邮件而发疯。

My brain would be going crazy thinking about email.

你不认为莎拉能快乐吗？

You don't think Sarah can be happy?

我不认为莎拉看网飞和刷社交媒体时会快乐。

I don't think Sarah's happy watching Netflix and on social media.

我认为那是一种深深的不安全感和不满足感，伪装成不快乐，几乎像是一种表象。

I think that there is a deep sense of insecurity and lack of contentment that's guised as unhappy, and that's guised as or covered of it's almost like a facade.

我要说我是快乐的，但我们的经济现实和她的财务状况给莎拉带来了依赖性。

I'm going to say that I'm happy, but the realities of our economy and the realities of her financial situation create dependencies for Sarah.

这会形成依赖关系。

It creates dependencies.

我发现，这些依赖关系最终会在某种程度上让你对所依赖的事物产生怨恨。

And with those dependencies, what I found is that the things that you are dependent upon, at some level, you will end up resenting.

如果我的生意依赖单一客户，而他们占我收入的80%，签下这笔交易时当然很棒。

If I'm dependent upon my one customer in my business and they make up 80% of my revenue, sure, it's great when I sign that deal.

但当这个客户变得难缠时就很糟糕，因为在我实现收入多元化之前，80%的收入都依赖他们——直到我能通过市场营销吸引其他客户、扩大受众群体为止。

It's really sucky when that customer ends up being a jerk because now I'm dependent upon them 80% of my revenue until I'm not dependent upon them because I've diversified my revenue and I've been able to bring on other customers because I was able to market my business and acquire an audience.

所以对于莎拉，我会问：如果家庭年收入中位数在6万到7万美元左右，她依赖什么来支付Netflix订阅费？

And so, with Sarah, I would ask, if the median household income is around $60,000 shy of $70,000 a year, what is Sarah dependent upon to be able to afford the Netflix subscription?

当她刷着TikTok商店，想和其他人一样过着参加光鲜网红活动的酷生活时——无论是什么吸引她宁愿看这些也不去亲身体验。

And when she scrolls on TikTok shop and wants to be able to be like everybody else who's living these cool lives doing these glamorous influencer events or whatever she's into, whatever is so captivating to her that's making her watch this instead of go out and do those things.

涂上化妆品。

Apply the makeup.

女性会看多少化妆教程却从未实际使用过那些工具和产品？

How many makeup tutorials do women watch without ever even applying the makeup or using the tools and the products?

这只是因为她们分心了。

It's just because they're distracted.

我在想这是否是互联网带来的后果，这种观点。

I'm wondering if this is a consequence of the Internet, this this perspective.

因为我在脑海中回溯了五十年、一百年，甚至更久远的年代。

Like, because I I I was in my head, was skipping back through the through fifty years and then a hundred years, and I was going back further.

我在思考：一千年前当财富还不存在时，人类的本能机制是怎样的？

I was like, oh, you know, what's human what what's the human sort of wiring a thousand years ago when wealth didn't exist?

财富就是你所能携带的东西。

Like, wealth was what you could carry.

那时没有银行账户或货币的概念，所以我拥有的财富就是我所能携带的一切。

There was no such thing as bank accounts or money, so I was as wealthy as what I could carry.

实际上，或许正如Naval之前所说，那个时代唯一延续至今的货币形式，财富本质上只是地位的一种替代品。

And actually, maybe as I think Naval said this before that the only currency back then which still persists and actually wealth is just a proxy of is status.

地位始终意味着生存保障。

Status has always meant survival.

它意味着我能获取资源，获得配偶。

It means that I get the resources, I get the mates.

但财富并非大脑真正理解的这种建构概念。

But wealth is isn't this construct that actually the mind understands.

然而在过去二三十年里，由于社交媒体的影响，我们某种程度上都被潜移默化地认为，游艇或粉丝数这类物质财富才是最重要的。

But in the last twenty, thirty years because of social media, we've all been sort of, I guess, wired in a way to believe that material possessions like the yacht or the follower count is of utmost importance.

也许这只是在证明：我属于这个群体，我没有生存危机。

Maybe it's just a proxy of like, I belong to I belong, and I'm not at risk.

或许这是地位的替代品。

Maybe it's a proxy of status.

我认为这是生存能力的替代指标。

I think it's a proxy of survival.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

我在想，过去二十年里我们是否被环境所影响，形成了对这些事物的需求观念。

So I'm wondering if we've just been wired for the last twenty years to believe that we need these things because of the environment that we're in.

但实际上，从史前角度来看，我们如此在意追求本身并不合理，我认为这种追求欲是根植于我们本性的。

But actually, like prehistorically, it doesn't make sense that we would we would care about We so pursuit, I think, is, like, really hardwired into us.

就像我们本不该在房子里装这么多摄像头之类的东西。

So it's like, we wouldn't have these cameras in all in this house and stuff.

嗯。

Mhmm.

显然，我的祖先们天生具有追求和建设的本能，但他们同样也必然具有依赖他人的天性。

So clearly, my ancestors were, like, wired to pursue things and to build, but they were also most certainly wired to depend.

我认为这可能是当前社会真正的问题之一——我们都在追求独立。

I think this might be one of the real problems with society at the moment is that we're all pursuing independence.

我觉得这有点问题。

I think this is a bit of a problem.

实际上我经常思考这个问题。

I think about this quite a lot, actually.

信仰的衰落、社区机构的式微、人们生育和组建家庭的意愿下降，我感觉我们正变得极度个人主义。

The decline in faith and the decline in community institutions and the decline in people having kids and family, I'm like, we're really becoming really individualistic.

我不确定这是否符合我们的天性。

And I'm not sure that's within our nature.

你看，我认为生存必须依赖他人。

See, I think survival has to depend upon other people.

这不仅仅关乎我个人的生存。

It's not just my survival.

一旦我解决了自己的生存问题，我所赚的钱就会立即投入到解决他人的生存困境中。

Once I've handled my survival, the amount of money that I make, it instantly goes to the problems that come with other people's survival.

无论是家庭成员、朋友群体，还是更广泛的人际圈，我认为这种互助模式在两百年前或两千年前都未曾改变。

Whether that's a family member, a group of friends, and how far out that expands, I don't think that changed two hundred years ago or two thousand years ago.

积累资源的能力让你能更好地应对丰收或旱季，真正维持生计并渡过难关。

The ability to accumulate things to better prepare yourself in a harvest, better prepare yourself in a time of a drought, to actually sustain and make it through to really survive.

你的人脉越广，就越能为自己的生存奠定基础。

And the more contacts that you have, the more you are setting yourself up to survive.

认识你的人越多——尽管这某种程度上是身份象征——实际上对你而言是一种生存机制。

The more people who know you, even though it's a little bit of a status symbol, it's actually a survival mechanism for you.

因为全球数百万人中，任何时候你遇到困难，你已与他们建立了足够的信任和信誉，使他们愿意帮助你。

Because millions of people across the globe, at any point in time that you have a problem, you have built enough trust and credibility with them for them to be interested in helping you.

所以这本质上是个生存策略。

So it's actually a survival point.

当然，你可以从整个生存光谱来看：第一百万个粉丝或第二百万个粉丝真的能带来更多生存保障吗？

Now, of course, you can run the spectrum of the survival and say, Well, is the additional millionth follower or the additional 2,000,000 followers actually leading to more survival?

我认为有这个可能。

I would argue that potentially.

但如果你考虑自身、家人、依赖你的人以及团队的生存，你还能产生哪些其他影响？

But what else could you be able to impact if you were thinking about the survival of you, of your family, of the people that depend on you, your team that's here?

你正在创造富足，让他人能够通过你的创造物生存下去。

Like, you are creating abundance so that other people can survive through what you have created.

你追求自身生存的同时，第二层次便是你周围的群体——家人、员工，以及你以各种方式贡献的其他团体。

And you pursuing your own survival and then having the second order be the group around you, family, the employees, the other groups that you are a part of that you contribute to in whatever ways you do.

然后这些概念进一步延伸，你实际上能为它的生存负起什么责任。

And then those concepts go further out to what can you actually be responsible for for its survival.

有趣的是，这种追求个人生存与繁荣的方式，正导致我们经历基因层面的灭绝，因为人们不再生育了。

What's interesting is this approach to sort of one's survival and one's prosperity is resulting in us having going through a genetic extinction because people are not having kids anymore.

所以莎拉带着她的四个孩子在Netflix上刷剧，实际上在基因层面存活了下来。

So Sarah, scrolling on Netflix with her four kids, is actually genetically surviving.

而那些专注于独立和能赚多少钱的人，他们正在基因层面走向灭绝。

And all these people that are focused on independence and how much money I can make, they're genetically becoming extinct.

真有意思。

Fascinating.

我基本上是在自我唱反调，因为如果你观察我的生活，显然存在巨大的矛盾。

I'm basically playing devil's advocate with myself because if you observe my life, clearly, is a massive contradiction.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这是我最近一直在思考的问题，就是关于依赖与独立的概念。

But but it's something that's been front of mind for me at the moment is is this idea of, like, dependence and independence.

而且显然，我正步入人生的这个阶段，即将有孩子，必须做出一些权衡，也确实会做出这些选择。

And, obviously, I'm approaching this season of life where I'm gonna have kids and there's gonna be trade offs that I have to make that I do make.

但我想我们拭目以待吧。

But I guess we shall see what happens.

你觉得人们现在在你33岁时比2019年时更尊重你吗？

Do you think people respect you a lot more now at 33 than they did when you were in 2019?

当然，他们确实更尊重我了。

Of course, they do.

想要赢得尊重的人应该怎么做？

And what should someone do that is looking to earn the respect?

有些人总觉得自己不断受到轻视。

Some someone that feels like they're continually disrespected.

他们身上有些特质。

There's something about them.

他们的举止方式中有些东西，让他们总觉得别人在轻视他们。

There's something in the way they carry themselves that what that they continually feel like people are disrespecting them.

他们可能在企业工作，或者在公司底层，也可能不是。

They might work in a business or, you know, they might be low down in a company or maybe they're not.

也许他们只是经历过职场，却不断遭遇不尊重。

Maybe they're just someone who's gone through the corporate world and they're continually disrespected.

你认为他们应该怎么做才能赢得人们的尊重？

What would you say they should do to earn people's respect?

一个人要想赢得尊重，首先要做的决定是宁愿被尊重而非被喜欢。

The first thing somebody has to do in order to earn respect is to decide that they would rather be respected than liked.

这种取舍太常见了。

That trade off is made too often.

我们常会遇到这种情况：正确且尊重人的做法却不受欢迎。

We're in a situation when the right, respectful thing to do is unlikable.

我们不会选择做正确且尊重人的事。

We don't choose the right, respectful thing to do.

我们优先考虑的是被人喜欢。

We prioritize being liked.

因此，当你决定要赢得尊重并不再优先考虑他人对你的看法时，你就能进入第二步：必须在你想获得尊重的领域取得实际成就。

And so when you make that decision to be respected and to not prioritize what everybody thinks about you, you can then transition into the second step, which is you have to get stats in the area that you want respect in.

如果你在组织中地位较低，或者周围有各种因不同原因不尊重你的人，那么你有哪些无可争议的专业领域？

If you're low in an organization or you have different people around you who don't respect you for a variety of different reasons, what is the area of your expertise that is undeniable?

这就是证明。

It's proof.

它存在于物质世界中。

It exists in the physical universe.

不仅仅是因为你有个想法，或者你认为自己可以成为企业家，或者你想成为给人提供感情建议的人。

It's not just because you had an idea or you think you can be an entrepreneur or you'd like to be someone who gives people relationship advice.

很抱歉，但如果你没有恋爱经历，没有经营好感情的实际记录，也没有能让配偶赞叹'哇，这人真棒'的婚姻。

I'm sorry, but if you're not in a relationship and you don't have a stat of being able to have a good relationship and you can't have a spouse that's like, wow, this person's great.

我喜欢和这个人相处。

I love being around this person.

那你可能不该给出感情建议，这也是你在该领域得不到尊重的原因。

You probably shouldn't be giving that advice, and that's why you don't have respect in that area.

所以我认为尊重不是笼统的人生尊重。

So I don't think respect is a overall life respect.

你需要在不同领域分别赢得尊重。

You need to have respect in the different compartments.

不是说斯蒂芬整体上是个值得尊敬的人。

It's not just Stephen is a respectable person altogether.

在我看来那只是表象。

That's a facade to me.

在某些方面，你可能并不值得尊敬。

You might not be respectable in certain areas.

也许在你生活的某些方面，我不该尊重你。

I maybe shouldn't respect you in certain areas of your life.

但在其他方面，我认为那些你优先考虑的领域，你非常值得尊敬。

But other areas, I would think areas that you've prioritized, you're incredibly respectable in.

你优先在这些领域获取数据和证明，以赢得人们的尊重，无论他们是否喜欢你，因为你为此有所证明。

And you've prioritized getting stats and proof in those areas to earn people's respect, whether they like you or not, because you have something to prove for it.

对你来说，这种‘不那么在意被喜欢’的理念是一段心路历程吗？

Has that been a journey for you, this idea of caring less about being liked?

因为你之前提到过，这在20岁出头时对你至关重要，等等。

Because you talked about that earlier as being really central to your early 20s, etcetera.

对我来说，不去渴望被喜欢真的很难。

It was so hard for me to not want to be liked.

我成长过程中有一位当医生的母亲，她是世界上最温柔、善良、体贴的人。

I had a mom growing up who was a medical doctor and just was the world's most sweet, kind, thoughtful person.

她会在聚会上坐下，房间里每个人都会立刻喜欢上她。

She would sit down at a party and every single person in that room loved her immediately.

她身上就有这种魅力。

She just had this aura about her.

所以我从小就以母亲为榜样，直到今天她依然是我的榜样。

And so I watched my mom growing up as a role model and somebody who still to me today is a role model.

她非常强调提出好问题和与他人互动的重要性。

And she really emphasized how important it is to ask great questions and to be engaged with other people.

在这个过程中我失去的是，如果我总是询问他人并试图让他人喜欢我，总是这样随波逐流，那我对自己真实的看法究竟是什么？

And what I lost in that process is, well, if I'm always asking other people and trying to get other people to like me, and it's always that flow, like, what do I actually think about myself?

因为我过度专注于迎合他人。

Because I'm so focused on over accommodating others.

所以如果你想扭转这种局面，试图从过度在意被喜欢转变为不过度在意被尊重，而是关注自己对自己的看法。

And so if you're trying to flip this for yourself, you're trying to go from I over index on being liked and not so over index on being respectable and liking what I think about myself.

你必须真正去面对三年后和五年后的自己，因为除了你自己，没有人能为你厘清这些。

You really have to go out to your three year version of yourself and your five year version of yourself because no one is going to get clear on that for you besides you.

一旦你坚定立场，声明这就是我想被认可的方面，这就是我想成为的人，这就是我设想中的自己——这不是什么显化练习。

And once you put that stake in the ground saying, this is what I want to be known for, this is who I want to become, this is who I imagine myself being, this isn't a manifestation practice.

而是我要决定那个人是谁。

It's I'm going to decide who that person is.

然后我会喜欢20岁、30岁、70岁的自己，因为我的行为与我对自己未来的期许一致，我将成为我想成为的人。

And then I'm going to like myself at 20, at 30, at 70, because I'm acting in accordance with the way that I view myself in the future, and I'm going to become the person that I want to be.

你是否发现必须强化和保护自己的边界才能赢得那种尊重？

Have you found that you've had to reinforce and protect your boundaries in order to earn that respect?

你有没有发现人们会试图试探你？

Do you find that people try and test you?

当然，他们会的。

Of course, they do.

我每天与数百名团队成员共事，他们对于工作形态和文化氛围都有自己的观点和期许。

I work with hundreds of team members every single day who have their own points of view and their own perspectives on what they want the work to look like, what they want our culture to look like.

我认为我不得不反复应对这个问题，因为我想创造一个让人们能获得成功的环境。

And I think I've had to wrestle with this so much because I want to create an environment where people can be successful.

我对领导力的定义是让他人的成功变得容易。

My definition of leadership is making other people's success easy.

所以如果我成为领导者，我就要让他人的成功变得容易。

So if I'm going to be a leader, I'm going to make other people's success easy.

我该如何做到这一点呢？

How would I go about doing that?

他们需要处于什么样的环境中，才能真正让成功变得容易，而不是选择另一条路——去信任其他领导者能让他们更成功。

What type of environment would they need to be in in order to actually make their success easy compared to their alternative, which is going down the street and trusting that some other leader is going to make them more successful.

因此我一直在思考我需要成为什么样的人，以及为自己设定哪些界限。

And so I really wrestle with who I need to be and what the boundaries are that I set for myself.

我在网上受到很多批评的一件事是，我曾公开分享过一个关于解雇员工的TikTok视频，原因是发现她出轨了，而且对方也有伴侣。

And one of the things I've gotten so much criticism of online was when I publicly shared a TikTok about firing somebody because I found out that she was cheating on her significant other and the other person also had a significant other.

我一发现这件事就立即解雇了他们两人。

And as soon as I found out about it, I terminated both of them immediately.

这让人们非常震惊

And it's so shocking to people that

等等，有人和公司里的人出轨了？

Wait, someone was cheating with someone in the company?

是的。

Yeah.

而且他们在公司外都有伴侣？

And they both had partners outside of the company?

两人在公司外都有伴侣。

Both had partners outside of the company.

我一听说这件事，就意识到这甚至不是个瞬间决定。

As soon as I caught wind of it, it wasn't even like a split second decision.

好吧，严格来说这确实是个瞬间决定。

Well, I guess it technically was a split second decision.

我当时想，我不能让这种事发生在我的圈子里，尤其是身边亲近的人。

It was like, I can't have this in my environment, especially somebody close around me.

人们信任我，也应该信任任何能帮助他们轻松获得成功的领导者。

People trust me and should trust any leader to help them make their success easy.

如果我让那些会腐蚀团队价值观的人进入这个环境，我还能让人们轻松获得成功吗？

Am I making people's success easy by putting inside that environment people who are going to erode the values of the group.

不能。

No.

对大多数人来说，成功不是与伴侣离婚。

Success for most people isn't getting a divorce from their significant other.

大多数人的成功是在事业和财务上取得成就的同时，还能拥有配偶。

Success for most people looks like figuring out how to have the success in their professional lives and in their financial lives while also being able to have a spouse.

我不希望我丈夫去工作的环境里，公司对员工之间互相欺骗、撒谎、没有道德准则、吸毒的行为视若无睹。

I wouldn't want my husband going out to work and be in an environment where the company was just fine with people, cheating on each other, lying to each other, and not having a code of ethics, doing drugs.

因为我的职责是让人们轻松获得成功，所以我绝不允许这些事发生在我的环境里。

Like, none of that is something that I want inside my environment, because it's my job to make people's success easy.

有人会说他们下班后做什么不关你的事。

One would say that's none of your business, what they're doing when they go home.

首先这就是我的事，因为这是他们彼此之间的事。

It is my business, first of all, because it was with each other.

是啊。

Yeah.

但他们没在工作时这么做。

But they're not doing it at work.

好吧，具体细节不便透露，但这件事确实与工作有关。

Well, there was a not to get into specifics of the particular event, it happened to be around work related.

但即使不是在工作场合，你仍然希望伊凡

But if it wasn't at work, you still want Even

如果是的话，我会立刻开除那个人。

if it was, I would fire the person immediately.

所以你会因为某人出轨而开除他们

So you'd fire someone for cheating

绝对会。

Absolutely.

对他们的伴侣不忠。

On their partner.

毫无疑问。

Absolutely.

我不能容忍欺骗者。

I can't have cheaters.

如果他们连承诺共度余生的人都能背叛，你觉得他们会诚实地工作吗？

If they're going to cheat on the person that they're supposed to spend the rest of their life with, do you think that they're cheating on their work?

你认为他们会欺骗我们的客户吗？

Do you think that they're going to cheat on our clients?

你认为他们是否具备道德准则和判断力，能够不被个人道德困境所干扰，从而真正专注并做好工作？

Do you think that they're going to have the ethics and morals and judgment to not be so distracted with their own personal ethics situation that they can actually focus and do a good job?

那个人在任何环境中都是环境的负担。

That person in any environment is a liability to the environment.

这完全是个累赘。

It's a complete liability.

不过有些人私生活的情况与他们职业表现截然不同。

Some people have, you know, things in their personal life which are very different to the way that they show up professionally, though.

人们在私生活中会做各种各样的事。

People do all kinds of things in their personal life.

这太可怕了。

It's terrifying.

因为在我看来，如果我扩大关注范围，就他妈什么都做不成了。

Because listen, the way that I see it is if I expand the scope of my concerns, I'm going get fucking nothing done.

所以如果我开始深究他们在家里和床上的私生活——除非他们主动告诉我，毕竟作为创始人或CEO，员工会主动汇报说'这个会影响工作'。

So if I start going in tightly who they are at home with and in bed with and what's going on in their personal life, unless they bring it to me, obviously, when you're the founder or the CEO, people bring you stuff and they say, look, this is going to impact my work.

但听着，要划清界限，我也不想当你们私生活的他妈的监管者。

But know, boundary, I don't want to be the government of your fucking personal situations as well.

只要不影响办公室工作就行。

As long as it doesn't show up in the office.

如果

If

你曾在初创公司工作过，就知道那里本就一片混乱。

you've ever worked in a startup, you already know it's chaos.

速度即生存。

It's speed and it is survival.

如今随着AI加速一切，这种速度只增不减。

And now with AI accelerating everything, that speed has only increased.

初创企业比以往更早获得大客户订单，但这些订单伴随着监管要求，许多早期企业并不具备应对能力。

Startups are landing enterprise deals even earlier than before, but what comes with those deals is regulatory requirements, something a lot of early stage businesses aren't equipped to handle.

即便是SOC2认证（如果你知道这意味着什么）也往往不够。

And a SOC two, if you know what that means, isn't always enough.

当拥有合适的安全措施成为交易成败的关键时，你必须提前制定计划。

When having the right kind of security is the difference between making a deal or breaking a deal, you need to have a plan in place.

本播客赞助商Vanta的AI自动化系统能在数天内轻松满足买方预期，并持续监控合规状态，确保未来交易畅通无阻。

Vanta, who are sponsor of this podcast, have an AI and automation system that makes it easier to meet buyer expectations in just days, and they continuously monitor your compliance so any future deals are never blocked.

面对AI驱动的法规变化，他们的团队精准掌握需求节点，并打造了最快捷的达成路径。

With AI changing regulations, their team knows exactly what's needed and when it's needed, And they've built the fastest and easiest path to get you there.

如果你是初创企业主且对此感兴趣，访问vanta.com/ceo可享1000美元优惠。

If you're running a startup and this appeals to you, you can visit vanta.com/ceo and get $1,000 off.

网址vanta.com/ceo，立省1000美元。

That's vanta dot com slash ceo for $1,000 off.

如果我考虑在2025年创业——毕竟你已与线上成千上万的企业主交流过，可能达数百万之众——

If I'm thinking of starting a business in 2025, you know, you've spoken to thousands and thousands and thousands of business owners online, probably many millions of business owners.

关于构思创意和选择方向的初期阶段，根据你见证的成功与失败，特别是在2025年世界剧变的背景下，对人们应该瞄准什么领域、专注哪些方向有何建议？

When we think about that initial period of like coming up with the idea and picking what to work on, is there any advice you'd give people based on the success and failure you've seen about what they should aim at, what they should work on, especially in the context of like 2025 when so much in the world is changing so quickly?

如果用这个框架思考：任何企业主或潜在创业者能否从'哪里最有可能让我成功'的角度出发来创业？

If they could use the frame, if any business owner or potential business owner could think about starting a business from the standpoint of where is there the greatest chance for me to be successful?

那是最佳的使用框架。

That is the best frame to use.

遗憾的是，大多数人并未采用该框架，而是基于他们现有的经验和技能。

Unfortunately, most do not use that frame, and they base it off of their existing experience and the skills that they have.

如果不基于某人已有的经验或技能，我认为优秀的人工智能将成为伟大的均衡器，因为没人在AI领域有丰富经验。

If it was not based off of existing experience or skills that somebody has, I think great AI is going to be the great leveler because nobody has a lot of experience in AI.

全美的小企业主都不知道如何连接自动化系统、开始使用助手工具，将小企业接入CRM系统或连接财务软件的操作系统，从而让企业主能做出明智决策。

Nobody knows in small businesses across America how to hook up automations and start working with assistants to be able to put small businesses onto a CRM system or an operating system that connects to their financial software that allows the business owner to make great decisions.

没人能大规模做到这点，因为过去根本不存在这种技术。

No one has done this at scale because it didn't exist.

因此如果我在2025年创业，我绝对会关注如何帮助那些愿意为有效方案无限投入的企业主——解决他们真正的痛点，而对美国3500万企业主来说，真正的痛点就是不懂如何使用AI。

And so if I was starting a business in 2025, I would absolutely look at how do I help business owners who have an infinite budget for things that actually work to make them more money solve problems that are real to them and the problems that are real to the 35,000,000 business owners in The United States Of America is that they don't know how to use AI.

他们对AI感到恐惧。

They are terrified of AI.

他们要么选择逃避现实，要么指望某个年轻人替他们解决问题——而实际上，有经验的人完全可以在未来18到24个月内打造出价值八九位数的业务，真正解决这些问题，因为这会让企业主对业务产生极高粘性。

And they're going to either put their head in the sand or assume that somebody who is young is going to create the solution for them, when somebody instead who is experienced could have a 8, maybe even a 9 figure business that over the course of the next eighteen to twenty four months, really figuring out how to help solve these problems because it makes the business owner to that business incredibly sticky.

客户需求永远存在，而他们将站在一个无人涉足领域的最前沿。

The customer is always going to be there, and they would be on the front end of something that nobody has experience in.

那么你在考虑创业选址时，是否会重点关注该市场的增长速度？

So do you think a lot about the speed in which that market is growing when you think about where to set up shop and start a business?

当然。

Of course.

市场增长就是一切。

The market growth is everything.

因为如果你想在2025年创办一家纸业公司，你必须成为最优秀的纸业企业，并拥有独特的市场定位才能成功。而实际上，你完全可以选择竞争较小的领域，因为增长机会更多，市场参与者更少，反而更容易取得巨大成功。

Because if you want to start a paper business in 2025, you would have to be the best paper business and really have a unique positioning to make that successful when you could do something less well and be much more successful because there's just more opportunity in the growth, and there's less players in markets.

因此增长孕育了创新。

So the growth allows for innovation.

增长为新进入者创造了空间。

The growth allows for new entrants.

正如我提到AI时所说，人们眼前正面临着前所未有的机遇。

And as I mentioned with AI, there's just an unprecedented opportunity in front of people right now.

但我也对服务型业务感到非常兴奋。

But I'm also very excited about service based businesses.

屋顶工、水管工、电工、暖通空调工，所有这些行业。

Roofers, plumbers, electricians, HVAC, all of those businesses.

这些业务的核心不会受到AI冲击——除非机器人普及。

The core of the business doesn't get disrupted by AI until robots.

但这些企业的运营模式正等待有识之士来革新。

But those business operations are ripe for somebody to come in.

无论你是15岁还是50岁，只要能为每个客户实施真正解决问题的简单方案，就能获得数万美元的报酬——这就是我看好的机会。

I don't care if you're 15 years old or if you're 50 years old and get paid tens of thousands of dollars per client to implement very simple solutions that really do solve problems for those businesses.

运用AI。

Using AI.

运用AI。

Using AI.

是的，我听你讲过关于2026年仍将存在的六大最赚钱行业的观点。

Yeah, I've heard you talk about when you described the six most profitable businesses that you think will be around in 2026.

我们讨论过AI企业，也讨论过家庭服务。

We've talked about AI businesses, talked about home services.

另一个是混合型健康俱乐部。

The other one was hybrid wellness clubs.

嗯。

Mhmm.

为什么健康领域对你来说在盈利性和开店选址方面是个重要的预测方向？

Why is why is health such a a big predict prediction for you in terms of profitability and a good place to set up shop?

健康领域正在增长。

There's growth in the health space.

疫情过后，整个世界都变了，人们的健康优先事项也随之改变。

After COVID, the whole world changed, and their priorities changed as it relates to health.

我最近读到的关于夜总会酒精销售的统计数据，已经今非昔比——因为人们不再热衷于深夜外出聚会，而是真正开始优先考虑健康。提供健康优化解决方案的市场自疫情以来持续增长，未来还将随着健身房各类设施和新型健康技术的引入继续扩张。有次我去做面部护理（我最爱的项目）时...

The statistics I read recently about alcohol sales connected to, like, nightclubs, it's just it's not what it used to be because instead of wanting to go out late and party and do all sorts of things, people are actually prioritizing their health and providing them with solutions for optimizing their health is just it's continued to grow for ever since COVID, and it's going to continue to grow with different types of amenities at gyms, with different types of technology that people are inserting into what a traditional I one time I recently went to a facial, my favorite thing, my hobby.

我去做了60分钟的面部护理，他们还在护理过程中整合了静脉注射服务。

I went to get a sixty minute facial, and they integrated IV services into that facial experience.

还有什么方法能让坐在椅子上60分钟的客户为健康养生业务额外创收呢？

Well, what else could you do that allows somebody who is sitting in a chair for sixty minutes to add revenue to that business that's connected to their health and well-being?

这类创新正在全球各地的小型市场中涌现。

Those types of innovations are happening in small markets all across the world.

你在视频里为什么还提到宠物护理？

And why did you say in that video pet care?

人们爱自己的宠物，也愿意为宠物花钱。

People love their pets, and people will spend money on their pets.

人们花在宠物身上的钱会比花在孩子身上的多，然后才是花在自己身上的。

People will spend more money on their pets than they'll spend on their kids and then they'll spend on themselves.

我是说，如果有人养狗——我最近遇到一个人，她告诉我她在用灵气疗法给她的12条狗治疗。

I mean, if somebody has a dog I recently talked to somebody who told me that she was doing Reiki with her 12 dogs.

我的意思是，这反映了人们对照顾宠物的热衷程度。

I mean, it's just the level of interest that people have in taking care of their pets.

我认为这个市场特别之处在于，当企业主和高收入者赚更多钱时，他们确实养了这些宠物——这些依赖他们但还不是孩子的生物，他们想把可支配收入花在让这个新好朋友'菲多'过得舒适上，通过各种服务让它健康，因为我觉得内疚，而通过给菲多提供看护、指甲美容和电磁场疗法，实际上能抵消我的负罪感。

I think what's happened in that marketplace specifically is as business owners and high income earners make more money and they do have these pets, these things that are dependent upon them that aren't yet children, they want to spend their discretionary income on making that pooch that is their new best friend Fido comfortable making him be well through all sorts of offerings because I feel bad and it can actually pay off my guilt by providing Fido with a caretaker and nail polish and EMF therapies.

另一个我认为与你经历特别相关的是，很多小企业主会来找我，他们不会直接这么说，但描述的情况就是他们成了自己企业的瓶颈。

And the other thing that I think is particularly pertinent to the experience you've had is so many small business owners will come up to me and say that they won't say it like this, but what they're describing is that they're a bottleneck in their own business.

他们可能，我不知道，营收百万左右。

They're maybe, I don't know, a million in revenue.

我是说，来找我的人大多都这么说。

I mean, most people that come up to me say this exact same thing.

他们总营收达到了百万左右，却不知道如何突破这种通常以服务为基础的商业模式——就是有人为客户提供服务的那种。

They've reached about a million in revenue in total, and they don't know how to scale beyond their typically like service based businesses where someone's doing a service for a client.

当你公司里遇到这些人时，你会对他们说什么？

And what would you what do you say to those people when you've encountered them in your your company?

欢迎加入创业者的行列。

Welcome to being an entrepreneur.

这不是什么独特的挑战。

This is not a unique set of challenges.

这是一系列预料之中的挑战。

This is an expected set of challenges.

统计数据显示，企业主在业务转折点面临的挑战——将现有有效运作模式过渡到由他人协助完成——本就是发展过程中的必经阶段。

The statistics show that the challenges that business owners face at that breakpoint of taking what they are doing that is working and transitioning that to having other people help them is part of the process.

因此这位企业主本身并无过错。

And so there is nothing wrong with this business owner.

问题仅在于他们缺乏技术性知识，不知道如何培训他人完美复制自己的业务能力，从而让企业主能专注于自身核心角色。

It's just that they don't technically know how to train somebody to do what they do well that then allows the business owner to focus on the business owner's primary role.

而这个核心角色应该是创造营收。

And that primary role should be to generate revenue.

牙医不该亲自为患者进行口腔清洁。

It shouldn't be the dentist being in the person's mouth.

你不可能经营12家牙科诊所的同时，还亲自指导患者使用牙线并检查清洁效果。

You cannot have 12 dental clinics and still be the person that is helping the person floss and making sure that they're flossing.

对吧？

Right?

这类工作通常由卫生员辅助牙医完成。

Mostly hygienists help dentists with that.