特勤局特工：切勿随意给人贴上自恋标签！这种习惯会让人讨厌与你交谈！

沟通的力量以及保持在线状态，对于实现你的目标至关重要，因为它能让你保持正轨、持续投入，并提醒你为何而存在。

The power of communication and staying online as it relates to what you want to accomplish is really powerful because it keeps you on track and it keeps you engaged and reminds you of why you're there.

并非每段关系都值得如此。

Not every relationship deserves that.

有些关系，你就是会觉得：这对我而言根本不值得。

There's just some relationships you're like, This just isn't worth it for me.

如果这件事对你重要，那它对我也同样重要。

If it matters to you, that mattered to me.

它对我重要，并不是因为对我自己，而是因为对那个家庭。

It mattered to me not because for me, it mattered to me for that family.

拥有一个职业和成为一名专业人士是有区别的。

And there is a difference between having a profession and being a professional.

拥有一个职业，是你所从事的工作。

Having a profession is what you do.

成为一名专业人士，则是你在那一刻、为了特定目的，所做一切的总和。

Being a professional is the culmination of everything that you've done at that moment, at that time for a specific purpose.

这就是我必须带入这一点的原因，因为这正是此事的关键所在。

And that's what I had to bring in with that because that was what was at stake with this.

所以你面前有这四张卡片，我们已经完成了P，也就是在进入对话时专注于你的目的，以抵御可能扭曲你、让你措手不及的情绪。

So you have these these four cards We've in front of done the p, which is staying focused on your purpose when you go into conversation to to fend off the emotion, which might distort you and take you off guard.

我在这方面真的很有罪恶感。

And I'm so guilty of that.

你知道吗？

You know?

每个人都是这样。

Everybody is.

尤其是在和我伴侣的对话中，当情绪卷入其中时，我尤其有罪恶感，对不起。

So guilty of that with especially with, like, you know, conversations with with my partner where there's emotion involved in this I'm sorry.

在那里，指责可能很普遍。

Where, you know, blame might be prevalent.

所以你提到的那个L呢？

So the l that you have there?

所以这个L是倾听。

So the l is listen.

这成为人们最不擅长的事情，因为这需要做很多事。

This becomes the thing that people are worst at because it's a lot to do.

想想现在。

Think about right now.

想想我此刻和你的对话。

Think about my conversation with you at this moment.

我在说话，而在我内心，我头脑中的词汇和对话正在以每分钟800到1000个词的速度运行。

I'm speaking, So internally, my internal vocabulary and the conversation that I'm having in my head is running about 800 to a thousand words a minute.

我对你说话的速度大约是每分钟120到150个词。

I'm speaking to you in about a 120 to a 150 words a minute.

有很多内容被删减了。

There's a lot that's being edited.

有很多我认为自己在说的，或者我想说的东西。

There's a lot of things that I think that I'm saying or I wanna say.

我正试图与你互动。

I'm trying to engage with you.

还有一种叫做心理理论的东西，就是我在观察你，试图理解我所说的话是否切中了史蒂文想听的内容，或者他的观众想听的内容。

There's also something called theory of mind, which is me watching you and trying to understand is what I'm saying on point with what Steven wants to hear or wants to hear for his audience.

我需要做任何调整吗？

Do I need to change anything?

这些话有传达给他吗？

Is this landing on him?

如果你的非语言信号发生了变化，而你的语言也变了，那我就得重新调整我正在编辑的内容。

And then if your nonverbal's changing, your verbal's changed, then I have to readjust maybe what I'm editing.

我的心理理论也会随之调整，因为我会想：哦，我刚才在这里失去他了。

And my theory of mind will readjust too because I'm like, oh, I just lost him here.

我必须重新调整。

I have to I have to readjust.

与此同时，你正在听我说话，并且在聆听我给你提供的这每分钟120到150个词。

Simultaneously, you are listening to me, and you're listening to the 120 to 150 words I'm giving you.

但你的大脑每分钟可以处理四百到六百个单词。

But your brain can process this at, like, four to 600 words per minute.

所以你有过多的认知带宽。

So you have too much cognitive bandwidth.

你有能力一边听我说话，一边做其他多件事，这常常导致人们走神，开始想别的事情，或者想到你的笔记本，因为你已经明白了。

You have the ability to listen to me and then do multiple other things, which is oftentimes why people will drift out or you'll start thinking of something else or you'll think of your notepad because you got it.

你已经搞清楚了。

You got it figured out.

这时，你很容易变得容易被说服而缺乏好奇心，因为你心想：我知道这要往哪儿去了。

And this is when it becomes really easy to be convinced and not curious because you're like, I kind of know where this is going.

于是你就心不在焉了。

And so you check out.

所以你实际上需要做一种叫做认知抑制的事情。

So you actually have to do something called cognitive inhibition.

你需要一定程度上缩小你的注意力带宽，才能完全专注于我。

You have to kind of narrow that bandwidth to stay fully engaged with me.

这就是为什么当你听到人们说积极倾听时，会觉得很难。

That's why when you hear people say like active listening, it's hard.

这很难做到，因为你必须专注于对方。

It's hard to do because you have to be attentive to the other person.

你必须认真听。

You have to listen.

你必须观察。

You have to look.

你必须捕捉他们的语言和非语言行为。

You have to pick up their verbal and their nonverbal behavior.

然后你还得对这些信息做出回应。

And then you have to do something with that.

史蒂芬·柯维说，大多数人倾听并不是为了理解。

Stephen Covey says, most people don't listen with the intent to understand.

而是为了回应。

They listen with the intent to reply.

如果你只是在等待轮到自己说话，那么你和我之间就没有真正的连接。

And if you are simply just waiting for your turn to talk, then you and I are not are not connecting.

控制对话来自于倾听，而不是说话。

Controlling conversation comes from listening, not talking.

所以，如果我想从某人那里获取一些信息，我应该倾向于让他们尽情表达。

So if I'm trying to if I'm trying to get some information out of someone, I should have a bias towards just letting them speak at me.

你应该这样做。

You should.

你知道，你常听到这种说法，总是让

You know, you hear about this like always let the

对方多说。

other person talk more.

这很好。

That's great.

但如果两个人都这么做，对话就无法推进了。

But if both people are doing that, then the conversation is not progressing.

对话是你我交流的延伸。

The conversation is an extension of what you and I are speaking with.

当我们从倾听转向理解其具体表现时，接下来你需要做的就是提问，也就是这个‘问’。

And when we've gone from listening in terms of what that looks like, the next thing you have to do, which gets into this, is the a, which is which is ask.

对吧？

Right?

所以这个‘问’就是如此。

So the a being this.

如果你在认真关注我，捕捉到我说的话、我肢体语言的变化，而有些地方你不太明白，你就需要提问。

If you are paying attention to me and you're picking up on things that I'm saying, the changes in my body language, and there's something you don't understand, you need to ask.

这正是你深化对话的地方。

This is where you're going to deepen the conversation.

这正是你向对方展示你在积极倾听、充满好奇、开放心态并努力理解他们的时刻。

This is where you show somebody that you're active listening, you're curious, and you're open, and you're trying to understand them.

如果你查看共情研究，我们通常以为自己能比实际更深刻地理解伴侣或其他人。

If you look at empathy research, we typically think that we can understand our significant other or different people at a much higher level than we actually do.

对于陌生人来说，这是共情的准确性。

For a stranger, it's empathy accuracy.

对于陌生人，你理解他们内心状态的能力大约只有20%。

For a stranger, your ability to understand their headspace is like 20%.

对于朋友或亲近的人，大约是30%。

For a friend, somebody close to you, it's like 30.

对于你的伴侣，这个数字也不会超过40%，这意味着，尽管你以为你了解她的想法，但你猜对的概率只有四成。

For your significant other, it's no higher than 40%, which means that despite you thinking that you know what she's thinking, you got a four out of 10 chance of being right.

如果这场对话变得情绪化，这40%可能会降至低至15%，因为你开始自我保护。

And if that conversation gets emotional, that 40% can go down as low as 15% because you start to pull in to be like, I'm guarding myself here.

我在保护我的自尊。

I'm guarding my ego.

当你的自尊受到威胁时，你的耳朵就会关闭，因为你不再倾听她说什么，而开始专注于保护自己。

When your ego is on the line, your ears go offline because you stop hearing what she's having to say and you start protecting yourself in terms of what you're trying to do.

因此，当事情变得困难时，你共情的能力也会变得更难。

So your ability to be empathetic when things are hard becomes harder.

你必须对此保持高度警觉。

And you have to be very mindful of that.

假设你一大早锻炼完回家，你的配偶说：嘿，史蒂文。

Let's say you come home from an early morning workout and your spouse says, Hey, Steven.

怎么样？

How was it?

你说：挺难的。

And you say, That's pretty tough.

对于这句话，你可以做很多事。

There's a lot that you can do with that.

这是她可能做的。

This is what she could do.

她可以什么也不说。

She could say nothing.

所以现在你可能明白了，也许她不想谈论这个，或者对此不感兴趣。

So now maybe you understand that maybe she doesn't want to talk about this or she's not interested in it.

这是一种。

That's one.

她可以对你说的第二件事是：‘亲爱的，这就是你看起来这样子的原因。’

The second thing she could say to you would be like, Well, sweetheart, that's why you look the way you do.

她现在做出了一个假设，对吧？她对‘ tough ’这个词的含义做出了共情判断。

She has now made the assumption, right, her her empathy accuracy that she knows what you meant by the word tough.

所以如果她对你说：‘这就是你看起来的样子’，而这不是你的本意，那么你现在会感到你希望她能领会的和你实际说的之间出现了隔阂。

And so if she says to you, well, that's how you look and that's not what you meant, now you feel that there's a separation between what you're hoping she would pick up on and what you actually said.

她可以做的第三件事是：‘你所说的 tough 是什么意思？’

The third thing she could say would be like, what do you mean by tough?

因为‘ tough ’这个词本身就具有歧义。

Because the ambiguity of that is the word tough.

谁知道它到底意味着什么？

Who knows what that means?

它可能有多种不同的含义。

It could be a lot of different things.

她现在向你展示：我在乎你。

She's now showing you, I'm into you.

我在认真倾听。

I'm tuning in.

在谈论深化关系、增强连接时，像这样的方式正是关键所在。

In the power of something like that, when you talk about deepening relationships and increasing that connection, that's how it happens.

你的非语言行为也是同样的道理，对吧？

The same thing with your nonverbal behavior, right?

你看非语言行为，我们传达的信息中有66%是非语言的。

You look at nonverbal behavior, 66 of what we give is nonverbal.

所以，在我和你交谈的过程中，如果突然间我们正在说话，而你却只是

And so if I, through the course of my conversation with you, if all of a sudden we're talking and you're just like

双臂交叉。

Folding my arms.

双臂交叉可能只是你单纯地交叉了双臂。

So folding your arms could be a sign of just you're folding your arms.

如果你翻白眼，这可能是你不喜欢我问题的信号。

It could be a sign of you not liking my question if you roll your eyes.

所以如果我注意到了这一点，而且这对我来说很重要，我就需要说类似‘看起来你……’而不是‘我觉得……’这样的话。

So if I see that and it matters to me, then I'd need to say something to the effect of it seems like versus I think.

因为‘我觉得’这个说法暗示这是关于我的感受，而实际上我只是不关心你怎么想。

Because I think is the pronoun saying it's about me and it's just like, I don't care what you think.

‘看起来你刚才的行为可能是因为你不认同我说的话，因为我看到你抱臂并翻了白眼。’

It seems like what you just did maybe was because you didn't like what I had to say because I saw you cross your arms and roll your eyes.

我理解得对吗？

Do I have that right?

现在你有了选择：你可以回答‘是的，你说对了，原因如下’，或者‘不，我只是因为舒服才抱臂’，无论哪种情况都行。

So now you have a choice where you can either say, yes, you got that right for these reasons or no, I just fold them because I was comfortable and, whatever the case may be.

但如果我注意到你的行为与我们之前的对话一致，似乎暗示着某种潜在问题，我就需要去询问一下。

But it is a matter if I see you and it's in harmony with the conversation that we were having that seems like it's something that shows that it could be potentially a problem, I need to ask about it.

你现在和我交谈时抱臂，并不会让我立刻警觉，觉得‘哦，我刚说完那句话你就抱臂了。’

You and I having a conversation right now and you folding your arms isn't going to be like a red flag that I'm like, oh, I just saw you folded your arms when I said that.

但如果这件事涉及某种情绪，而且很重要，当我看到你翻白眼或双臂交叉时，我试图向你表达一些东西，嘿，史蒂文。

But if it's something that there's some emotion related around that and it's important and I'm trying to express something to you when I see you roll your eyes or cross your arms hey hey, Steven.

当我提到我们家庭的这件事时，我注意到你往后靠了靠，双臂交叉，还翻了白眼。

I noticed when I brought up this thing about our family, you kinda leaned back and crossed your arms and rolled your eyes.

看起来你并不赞同这一点。

It seems like you didn't approve of that.

是这样吗？我理解得对吗？

Is is that do I have that right?

现在，解释或不解释就由你来决定了。

So now it's on you to explain that or not.

关于肢体语言这一点，作为一个人，我坐在这里，有时会连续面试别人四到五个小时。

On this point of body language, as someone that sits here and I guess interviews people for like,

你

you

知道，有时候会连续面试四到五个小时。

know, four or five hours at a time sometimes.

在过去五年里，我逐渐了解了嘉宾们的一些肢体语言模式。

Over the last five years, I have come to learn certain body language patterns in my guests.

好的。

Okay.

最明显的一个模式是，当我问嘉宾一些可能让他们感到不适的问题时。

One of the most obvious ones is when I ask the guest a question that is causing them some potential discomfort in some way.

我说的‘不适’，或许应该定义为：无论出于什么原因，这是一个难以回答的问题。

And when I say discomfort, I should probably define that as maybe it's a difficult question for whatever reason.

当然。

Sure.

我通常会看到他们交叉双臂。

What I tend to see is I tend to see them cross their arms.

好的。

Okay.

这是一个非常一致的模式。

That's like a really consistent pattern.

这简直就像他们在告诉我，这个问题有点难，而且确实如此。

It's almost like a it's almost as if they're telling me that this is a little bit difficult, and it's it holds to be true.

你会问他们吗？

Do you ask them?

我注意到当你交叉双臂时，就是当我问你那个问题的时候，是这个问题让你感到不舒服吗？

I noticed when you crossed your arms, you know, when I asked you that question, is it something with this question that bothered you?

还是你就任其自然？

Or do you just let it go?

我选择不问，但其实他们已经告诉我了。

I let it go, but it but it they've already told me.

好的。

Okay.

所以他们已经暗示了，我不需要再问，因为我现在知道那里有情绪存在。

So I've already they I don't need to ask them because I I know I now know that there's something there where there's emotion.

当然。

Sure.

这正是我看待问题的方式。

It's kind of the way that I I see it.

事情就是如此。

It's what it is.

很可能，事情就是如此。

More than likely, it's what it is.

我认为这其中有力量，因为你的感知对吧？

And I think there's power to that because your perception right?

所以你把这一点带回来了，比如你对所有受访者的模式识别，以及你所提问题与他们交叉双臂之间的关联或联系，这就是它的来源。

So it's you bring this back, like, your pattern recognition of all the guests that you've done and the association or the connection of that in terms of the question that you ask and they cross their arms, like that's where that comes from.

这就是为什么你突然间会有一种感觉，我就是觉得有事，但又说不清楚。

That's where that all of a sudden, that thing where you're just like, I feel it, but I don't really know it.

你并不确定情况就是这样，因为可能有多种不同的原因。

It's just like, you don't know that to be the case because it could be a number of different things.

但由于你经常看到这种模式，这让你有理由说：这里有一些情绪。

But because of the pattern recognition you see in all the time, that gives you the chance of saying, there's some emotion here.

所以，要么主动介入，要么谨慎行事，取决于你想走哪条路。

So either engage it or tread lightly depending on which way you want to go.

两者都行。

Both.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是会发生的情况。

And that's what happens.

所以，不要问‘你为什么交叉双臂？’

So instead of saying like, why did you cross your arms?

我会问他们：这个记忆让他们有什么样的感受？他们对此的感觉如何？这往往就足够了，因为人们总是会说，你知道，他们总会问：肢体语言重要吗？

I will ask them, may potentially, how how that memory makes them feel Like, they they feel about And and that tends to be it just it's so you know, because people always talk, know, they say, does body language matter?

它有意义吗？

Does it count for anything?

你能通过解读一个人的肢体语言来判断他们是否在说真话吗？

Can you interpret someone's body language to understand if they're telling you the truth?

在你看来，这些说法有哪一个是真实的吗？

Is any of this stuff true in your in your view?

没有。

No.

你应该关注肢体语言，因为它确实是一种语言，能反映出一个人正在向你展示的内容。

You should you should look at body language because it it it is a language in terms of what somebody is is showing you.

当你观察肢体语言时，如果发现某种变化，比如双臂交叉，你就需要对此感到好奇。

You look at body language, and if you see something that is a change, just like the crossing of your arms, then you need to be curious about it.

所以，这其实关乎状态的变化？

So it's really about a change in state?

这是一种变化，是某人行为及其发生时机的变化。

It's a change of it's a change of what somebody is doing and the timing of that.

你刚才说，当我问一些个人或情感相关的问题时，他们会谈论它。

So you just said, like, when I ask something that is personal or emotional, they'll talk about it.

他们会交叉双臂，因为可能此刻正是心理上的反应——我想稍微保护一下自己。

They'll cross their arms because maybe it's just now, like, this psychological thing where I want to guard myself a little bit.

也许我只是想稍微封闭一点。

Maybe I want to kind of close-up a little bit.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

但如果只是你注意到了，而你并不需要使用它，你当然可以问他们，但你心里想的是：哦，他们已经告诉我了，所以我没必要再问。

But if it's something where you're just like, I noticed it and you don't need to use it, you could ask them if you wanted to, but you're just like, oh, they already told me so I don't need it.

但对于其他人来说，如果你在交谈时看到有人交叉双臂，不要轻易下定论。

But for anybody else, if you see that and you're talking and somebody crosses their arms, don't just assume that's what it is.

因为如果你假设错了，就会走上错误的方向。

Because if you assume and you're wrong, you're going down the wrong track.

所以在这种进行艰难对话的框架中，我们已经讲到了P，即坚持目的，L，即倾听，是的。

And so throughout this framework for having hard conversations, we've covered the p, which is stick to purpose, the l, the list, which is listen Yeah.

A，即提问。

A, which is to ask.

提问。

Ask.

这个框架里还有其他内容吗？

Is there anything else in the framework?

最后一步是下一步行动。

The end, which is the next steps.

所以，制定计划意味着要理解所有这些不同的方面以及你处理它们的方式。

So to have a plan means to understand all of these different things and the way that you approach that.

下一步就是：你希望如何解决这个问题？

And the next steps is, how do you wanna resolve this?

比如，你希望这件事的最终目标是什么？

Like, what's the end goal with this?

有没有什么我可以做的，让我们能够进一步增进关系，让你我都达成一致？

Is there anything that I can do that we can, you know, further our relationship where both you and I can can be in alignment?

你会问他们吗？

Do you ask them?

你会主动提出吗？

Would you propose?

我总会问他们。

I would always ask them.

如果我参与其中，对吧？

If I'm engaged, right?

所以，让我们回到你可能与这位人士进行的对话。

So perhaps let's go back to the the conversation that you may have with, you know, this this individual.

你只是觉得，这个人是个自恋者，等等。

You're just like, this person's a narcissist and so forth.

如果你在与他们互动，并且你真的希望进行这场对话，希望找到某种解决方式，你就必须问清楚是否有可能达成解决。

If you're engaging them and you're the one who wants to really have this conversation and you're hoping that you can find some type of resolution, you have to ask if there's resolution with that.

所以，类似这样的说法：你认为我们能否找到一种和谐的前进方式，当我们互动时，能够真正享受彼此的时光，而不让事情变糟？

So something to the effect of, do you think that you and I can find an amicable way forward where when I when you and I engage, you know, we can really enjoy each other's time and and this thing not go bad?

你觉得我们的未来会有这种可能吗？

Like, do you see that in our future at all?

是或否。

Yes or no.

然后答案要么是 yes。

And then it's either yes.

好的。

Okay.

那对我们来说会是什么样子？

What does that look like for us?

比如，我们该如何做到这一点？

Like, how do we have that?

因为我跟你谈这些，是因为我与你的关系对我很重要，但在这段关系中有些事情让我感到沮丧，导致我不想再投入其中。

Because I'm I'm having this conversation with you because my relationship with you matters, but there are things that happen within that are that are frustrating and that cause me not to really wanna engage.

我确实想找到一种方法，因为这对我来说最重要。

I do wanna find a way to do that because that is most important to me.

我们怎样才能最好地做到这一点？

How best do we do that?

并没有什么万能钥匙能让每一次对话都完美无缺。

There is no magic bullet by which makes everything every conversation go perfect.

没有。

There's none.

你是这场对话的一部分。

You are you are part of that conversation.

对方也是这场对话的一部分。

The other person is part of that conversation.

你有你的观点。

You have your perspective.

他们有他们的观点。

They have their perspective.

你有你认为正确或公平的想法。

You have what you think is right or or or think is fair.

公平是主观的，因为你认为公平只是意味着你认为公平。

Fairness is subjective because what you think is fair just means what you think is fair.

所以最难的是离开时，感觉你应该做得更多，本可以做得更多。

And so the hardest part is to walk away and feeling like you should there should have done more you can do.

力量在于知道如何应对这一点。

The power becomes knowing how to address that.

如果事情没按预期发展，你就走开，心想：你知道吗？

And if it doesn't go right, then you walk away and be like, you know what?

事情就是没顺利进行。

It just didn't go right.

我对这一点感到坦然。

And I'm okay with that.

如果他们在对话中开始侮辱你呢？

What if they start insulting you in the conversation?

好吧。

Okay.

你参与这场对话的目的是什么？

What's your purpose of being in the conversation?

我试图让他们停止在呼叫中心同一排电话旁对我如此无礼。

I'm trying to get them to stop being so rude to me when we're on the same bank of telephones at the call center.

所以，如果她对你无礼，关键在于当时就要指出这一点。

So it is a matter of if she's being rude to you, it's it's addressing that at the moment.

对吧？

Right?

我发现我们正在讨论这个问题，你表现得非常具有攻击性、非常无礼，而且非常居高临下。

You know, I I noticed that we're having this conversation that you're being really aggressive, really rude, and really condescending.

所以你要指出来？

So you call it out?

对。

Yeah.

要具体说明问题出在哪里。

Be very specific in terms of what it is.

比如，如果她给你打电话，用了某些称呼，或者别的什么情况，你知道的，比如说她叫你什么名字之类的。

Like, you know, if she, if she calls you and she uses, you know, she calls you a name or whatever the case may be, like, you know what?

你这样做很无礼。

You're being rude.

她只是说：我怎么了？

And she's just like, what did I do?

你就说：你就是很无礼。

And you're like, you're just being rude.

这没有帮助。

That's unhelpful.

你要给她具体的背景，说明你为什么觉得她无礼，因为也许她有些行为不是直接叫你名字，但让你觉得她很无礼。

Like give her the context by which you feel that she's being rude because maybe she does something outside of a name where you're like, you're being rude.

也许对她来说，那并不算无礼。

And maybe to her, that's not rudeness.

也许那只是她直率而已。

Maybe it's her directness.

对吧？

Right?

但如果她这么说：你知道吗？

But if she's like, you know what?

你是史蒂文，你就是个混蛋，或者不管怎样。

You're Steven, you're just an asshole or whatever the case may be.

我会说：嘿，目前看来，你态度非常傲慢。

And I would say, hey, it seems like as of right now, like, you're very condescending.

你给我起了个绰号，比如混蛋。

You've called me a name to include an asshole.

你能具体告诉我，现在为什么这么说吗？

Can you explain to me specifically right now why that is?

让她为自己的话提供依据。

And make her back it up.

让她向你解释，到底是什么？是不是我有什么地方让你不喜欢？

Make her explain to you what it is that is there something about is there something about me you don't like?

是我工作态度的哪一点让你不喜欢，还是我做这件事的方式有问题？

Is there something about my my work ethic that you don't like or maybe the way that I'm doing this?

你在这里的时间比我长。

You've been here longer than me.

也许我还有其他做得对或不对的地方，让你感到不满，因为我实在不明白你为何如此愤怒、充满敌意，还非要侮辱我。

Perhaps there's something else that I'm doing or not doing that you think is wrong because I am not understanding your anger and your venom and your need to insult me.

我真的很想弄清楚这到底是怎么回事。

And I would really try to understand what that is.

所以你正在和她进行一场非常直接、具体的对话，针对她所说的内容。

So you're having a very direct conversation with her, very specific to what she's saying.

但这并不意味着这样就能解决问题。

It does not mean that that's going to fix it.

她可能本来就只是个混蛋。

She could just be an asshole.

这属于那种你必须面对的情况：我要处理这件事。

And it's one of those things where you have to be like, I am going to address this.

我不会以牙还牙。

I'm not going to return in kind.

我不必也变成那样的人。

I don't have to turn into that person as well.

我可以离开那场对话，然后想：你知道吗？

I can walk away from that conversation and be like, you know what?

我已经尽我所能处理好了。

I handled that the best I could.

但这并不意味着问题就能解决。

Doesn't mean it's going to fix it.

审讯者有没有被教导过一些技巧，或者你们会教审讯者如何控制情绪？

Are there any tactics that interrogators are taught or that you teach interrogators for keeping your emotions in check?

因为你知道，当我们进入这场对话时，有人骂你是混蛋，你的皮质醇水平就开始飙升，你进入杏仁核，变得紧张、情绪化，最后也回骂对方是混蛋。

Because, you know, we we go into this conversation, someone calls you an asshole, your cortisol starts spiking, you get into your amygdala, you get stressed, you get emotional, you end up calling them an asshole back.

但我不知道有没有什么方法。

But is there I don't know.

有没有呼吸练习？

Is there breath work?

审讯者通常会被教导些什么？

What what do interrogators get taught?

在情绪激动的那一刻，你根本没有时间做呼吸练习。

In the heat of the moment, at the at that time, you have no time to do breath work.

这完全是实时发生的事情，取决于你当时想做什么。

This is real time stuff in terms of what you're trying to do.

如果你进去时清楚自己的目的——我不是想再提计划，但实际情况是，你很容易被带偏。

If you go in and you understand your purpose and again, I don't mean to go back to the plan, but what happens is you become you can be pulled out very quickly.

当你试图从某人那里获取信息时，而他们可能不想告诉你，他们的策略之一就是侮辱你。

And all of a sudden, if you are trying to get information from somebody and one of their strategies, because they maybe don't want to give you information, one of their strategies is to insult you.

然后你就开始回敬他们。

And now you're insulting them back.

第一，你什么也得不到。

One, you're not going to get anything.

第二，你落入了他们的圈套。

Two, you fell into their strategy.

所以你必须应对这种情况。

So what you have to do is you have to address that.

我的意思是，当我问你这个问题时，突然之间，似乎我们的关系发生了变化，你现在变得非常具有攻击性。

I am something to the effect of, I see that when I ask you that or now all of a sudden, like, it seems like there's a change in our relationship to where now you're being really aggressive.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

所以你一直在指出这一点？

So you're continually calling it out?

是的。

Yes.

因为我在要求你为自己的情绪提供依据。

Because I am asking you to back up your emotions.

因为如果这是胡扯，如果你只是这么做来转移话题，我就会揭穿你。

Because if it's if it's BS, if you're just doing that because you're trying to hide the ball someplace else, I'm going to call you out on it.

这同时也向我表明，我不害怕面对这种行为，而且我已经注意到了。

It's also showing me that I am not afraid to confront this type of behavior, and I'm seeing it.

而且我真的很努力地以一种友好、真诚的方式与你交流。

And I am I am really trying to engage with you in a very amicable, genuine way.

如果你要以某种方式对待我，我会弄清楚那意味着什么。

And if you are going to treat me a certain way, I am going to understand what that is.

你也在表明你并没有以同样的方式回应。

You're also showing that you're not doing it in kind.

这是否部分在展示你的强大？

Is part of this showing that you're strong?

这更多不是关于强大，而是关于对你所做的事情保持能力和自信。

It's less about being strong and more about being competent and confident in what you're doing.

因为如果你允许任何人——不仅仅是在审讯室里，而是在任何对话中——如果你失去冷静，你就失去了控制。

Because if you allow in anybody, not just an interrogation room, in in any in any conversation, if you lose your cool, you lose control.

你必须对此保持警觉。

You have to be mindful of that.

我当时正在监督一次内部事务访谈，打算在最后去和这个人谈谈。

I was overseeing a an internal affairs interview, and I was gonna go in and talk to this person at the end.

我当时在考虑给他们做测谎。

I was thinking about doing a polygraph with them.

但在那之前，负责此案的调查人员正在与当事人交谈。

But before that was going to happen, the the case agent, the person who had the investigation, was talking to the subject.

这是一起路怒事件，这名警员被指控对平民路怒并拔出枪支。

It was a road rage incident where this, agent, had been accused of road rage and pulling his gun out on a a civilian.

所以这就是他们正在进行的对话。

So this was the conversation they were that they were having.

而我正在审讯室里听着这一切，通过单向玻璃观察。

And I'm listening to this in an interview room, right, in in in terms of, a two way two way mirror.

而当事人非常具有攻击性。

And the subject is very aggressive.

他非常愤怒。

He's very angry.

他愤怒到几乎说：‘我不明白你们为什么不相信我这些话。’

And he's very angry to the point of, like he's like, I don't know why you don't believe me with this.

我一再告诉你们这些事，你们却不断问同样的问题。

I keep telling you these things, and you keep asking me the same questions.

我觉得这全是胡说八道。

I think this is a bunch of BS.

调查员回来后，直接说：我觉得你是个骗子，你根本没有告诉我实情。

The investigator comes back, and he's just like, because I think you're a liar, and you're not telling me the truth in terms of what it is.

你让我们在这间屋子里待了这么久，这成了个问题。

And you're causing us to be in this room a lot longer, and this is a problem.

现在他们俩开始互相大喊大叫。

So now they're both yelling at each other, like yelling at each other.

我当时看着这一切发生，但维持冷静并不是被调查者的责任。

And it was one of these things where I'm watching this unfold, and it wasn't the subject's job to maintain his composure.

责任在调查员身上。

It was the investigators.

因为他的目标不是贬低另一位警员。

Because his goal is not to belittle this other agent.

他的目标是弄清楚：这件事到底发生过，还是没发生？

His goal was to find out, did this or did this not happen?

他忘记了这一点。

And he lost sight of that.

他从房间里出来找我，问我：你觉得怎么样？

And he came out of the room to me, and he's like, what do you think?

我说：我不会给他做测谎。

And I'm like, well, I'm not gonna polygraph him.

我的意思是，这人现在情绪太激动了。

I mean, this guy's so emotional right now.

这种事情不会发生。

Like, that's not gonna happen.

他说：你知道吗？

And he goes, you know what?

这人本来就是个混蛋。

This guy's just an asshole anyway.

我说：我不觉得他是房间里那个混蛋。

And I'm like, I don't think he's the asshole in the room.

另一个家伙才是房间里那个混蛋。

The other guy was the asshole in the room.

因为他允许自己被拉离了本该做的事情，因为他现在只想玩一场谁是更大混蛋的游戏。

Because he allowed himself to get pulled out of what he should have been doing because now he wanted to have the game of who's the bigger who's the bigger jerk in the room.

你能做到的。

You can do it.

而且，如果你真想烧掉这座桥，那就烧吧。

And again, if you want to burn that bridge, burn it.

但如果你想要维持一段关系，或者维持你的职业，或者你正试图达成某种解决，你就不能失去冷静。

But if if you want to maintain a relationship or you want to maintain your profession or you are trying to get to some resolution, you cannot lose your cool.

我想这归根结底是，大多数时候，我们在进入对话前并不清楚目标。

I guess that was what it comes down to is most of the time, we're not clear on the goal going into the conversation.

所以我们没有任何可以锚定的东西。

So we we have nothing to be anchored to.

这就像是跳进了洗衣机里一样。

Just it's we it's just like getting into the washing machine.

确实就是这样。

Absolutely what it is.

我们只是不停地转啊转啊转啊，确实如此。

We just spin around and around and around and Absolutely.

带着良好的关系离开吧。

Walk away with a nice relationship.

当这个人侮辱你、对你发怒、做出这些行为时，而你却坐在那里提出好的问题，保持冷静，这本身就蕴含着巨大的力量。

And and the power really comes from if this person is insulting you and they're angry and they're doing these things and you're sitting there and you're asking good questions, you're keeping your composure, there is a lot of power with that.

我说的力量，是指那种展现出我掌控自我的力量。

And I mean power in a way that shows like I'm in control of myself.

我清楚地意识到，在这段关系和这场对话进行时正在发生什么。

I am well aware of what's going on as this relationship and this conversation is is happening.

我不会陷入这种情绪，因为这件事对我来说，关系到其他更重要的事情。

I am not going to fall into this because this matters to me in terms of this other thing.

我听过你说，人们患有‘我、我、我’综合症。

I've heard you say that you think people suffer from me, me, me syndrome.

那是什么意思？

What does that mean?

所以，‘我、我、我’综合症就是一切都围绕着我。

So the me, me, me syndrome is everything everything is about me.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，这一点似乎很明显。

I mean, it seems obvious with that.

但你甚至可以从文化的角度来看待这个问题。

But, like, you can even look at things from, a cultural perspective.

你可以看看，比如在美国和西方文明中，我们主要是一种尊严文化。

You can look at, like, here, you know, in the in The US and Western civilizations, like, we are primarily, like, a dignity culture.

我们的一切都围绕着我们自己。

Well, we are it's all about us.

对吧？

Right?

这完全关乎我们内心的那种感受。

It's all about that internal that internal feeling that that we have.

因此，一切都被我们的工作、成功和我们所做的事情所决定。

And so everything is predicated on our job, our success, the things that we do.

就我们的成败而言，外部世界其实并不重要。

The external world doesn't really matter in terms of our success or failure.

所以，很多东西都在于你的内心状态，以及你如何管理它。

So a lot of it is what is in your headspace and how do you manage that?

因为我所看到的问题，以及我认为存在于沟通中的问题，是我们做了大量的自我反思。

Because the problem that I see and what I think comes within communication is we do a lot of self reflection.

但我们很少去对外部他人进行反思。

We rarely do a lot of outward reflection on the other person.

最优秀的谈判者中，有些人会花超过一半的时间去思考别人。

Some of the best negotiators there will spend more than half of their time thinking about somebody else.

所以，这是一个非常个人化的故事。

So a very personal story.

我21岁时，父亲去世了。

When I was 21, my father passed away.

他与癌症抗争了三年。

He had been battling cancer for three years.

我有四个兄弟姐妹，母亲也在场。

I have four siblings and my mom was there.

他去世时是在家里，我们五个都在他身边。

When he passed away, he passed away at home, and all five of us were there.

几年后，我在父亲去世的这一天，谈论着父亲去世的那一天。

Several years later, I'm having this conversation on the day that my dad died about the day that my dad died.

我和我的姐姐以及三个弟弟在交谈。

I'm having this with my my sister and my three younger brothers.

我们谈论着当时各自在哪里等等。

And we're talking about where we were and so forth.

我姐姐说，是的。

And my sister says, yeah.

我一看到《辛普森一家》就会想到爸爸。

I I can't watch The Simpsons without thinking of of dad.

我说，你什么意思？

And I said, what do you what do you mean?

她说，当时电视就在那儿，《辛普森一家》正在播放，她总是记得那个场景。

She's like, well, the the the TV was there and The Simpsons were on, and she's like, always just remember that.

我当时说，房间里有电视？

And I was like, there's a there's a TV in the room?

她说，你记不得房间里有电视吗？

She's like, you don't remember a TV being in room?

我说，我完全不记得。

And I'm like, I have absolutely not.

我根本不知道房间里有电视。

I have no idea that there was a TV in the room.

我根本没留意过。

I didn't code it.

那并不是重要的事情。

That wasn't the thing that was important.

她的视角以及她看待那一刻的方式，让她与房间里其他人的体验截然不同。

Her perspective and the way that she saw that moment affected her differently than everybody else in that room.

所以回到‘我、我、我’的问题上，如果你不考虑其他人基于他们感知世界、处事方式的不同而拥有的其他经历，而以为一切都只关乎你自己，那么你将很难与他人建立深刻、真诚、有联系的关系，如果一切只围绕你自己的话。

And so to go back to the me, me, me, you fail to take in consideration that other people have other experiences based on how they pick up the world, how they do things in the world, and you think that it's just about you, you're you are gonna have a really hard time having a deep, honest, connective relationship with somebody if it's just about you.

你可以这么做，很多人也确实这么做了。

You can do it, and a lot of people do it.

你知道，他们在寻找那种方式，让别人被他们吸引，与他们产生连接。

You know, they're looking for that that way to, you know, make people drawn to them and make people connect to them.

这没什么问题。

And and that's fine.

但如果你想要，我想说，史蒂文，做一个真正真诚的人，想要建立一段关系，那就别总围绕着你自己。

But if you are trying to I guess, Steven, if you just wanna be like a genuine person and you wanna have a relationship, don't make it about you.

我刚写完我的第三本书。

I've just finished writing my third book.

我还没最终确定书名，但已经开始制作一些不同的设计了，我用的是Adobe Express，这是我们的一家赞助商。

I haven't firmed up the title yet, but I have started mocking up some different designs, and I've been doing this with Adobe Express, which is one of our sponsors.

我喜欢Adobe Express的地方在于，它让我能够专注于最微小的细节——排版、字体、颜色、文字位置，这些对大多数人来说可能显得琐碎，但实际上正是这些细节的累积，才创造出脱颖而出、比别人更胜一筹的作品。

What I love about Adobe Express is that it makes it so easy for me to obsess over the tiniest details, the typography, the font, the color, the text placement, the stuff that might sound petty to most people, but actually compounds to create something that stands out, something that's one better than the rest.

设计封面的过程让我想起了一年来我学到的许多创意技巧，同时也提醒我，身边还有许多同样藏着自己独特秘诀的创意人才。

And designing my cover art has reminded me of how many creative things I've learned over the year, but it's also reminded me that there are so many creative minds around me that are also sitting on their own secrets.

因此，我制作了这份‘更胜一筹’的指南，通过Adobe Express把这些技巧分享给你。

So I've created the one better guide in Adobe Express to bring those tips to you.

在指南中，你会找到行业顶尖人物的原则，并将其转化为简单易行的实践方法，供你直接应用。

And in it, you'll find principles from the very, very best in their industry turned into quick and easy practices for you to apply.

让你能够训练自己，像世界上表现最出色的团队那样去创作。

So you can train yourself to create exactly like the best performing teams in the world do.

现在就前往adobe.lyonebetter下载Adobe Express，并务必访问‘学习’标签页，了解如何让自己比别人更胜一筹。

Just head over to adobe.lyonebetter to download Adobe Express now, And make sure you visit the Learn tab to discover how you can become one better than the rest.

我刚才在想这件事。

I was thinking this earlier.

我刚才在想，关于这个播客，我学到的一件事是：如果我想提高别人向我敞开心扉、分享信息的可能性，其中一个方法就是我自己先分享。

Was thinking one of the things in the pod of this podcast that I've learned is if I, if I wanna increase the probability that someone opens up and tells me something, one of the things I do is I share myself.

对。

Yeah.

所以，当我问别人关于他们童年的事时，我现在很清楚，尤其是当他们交叉双臂、显得不自在时，

So, you know, I might be asking someone about their childhood, and it's quite clear to me now that one of the ways, especially if they end up crossing their arms and get uncomfortable Yeah.

最好的办法就是停顿一下，分享一下我自己的童年。

Is just to pause for a second and share my own childhood.

对。

Yeah.

如果我发现你的一个价值观是，比如说，你是个重视家庭的人。

So if I've identified that one of your values is, I don't know, you're you a bigger family man.

那我也可以提到我自己是个重视家庭的人，以此来建立

Might you mention that you're a family man yourself as a way to build

一座桥梁？

a bridge?

所以如果这是真诚的，那真是个好问题，但当你试图影响或操纵某人时，这就成了一个问题。

So if it's honest so so that's a great question, but this becomes a thing where you have to look at things if you were trying to influence or manipulate somebody.

如果这是真诚的，并且符合当时对话的语境，因为根据我们的对话，我认为这个人需要听到这些，那么当然，只要它是真实的。

If it's honest and it fits within that conversation at that moment because this is what I based on our conversation, think this person needs to hear, then sure, if it's real.

如果不是，如果我在骗他，只是为了说‘我是个顾家的人’。

If it's not, if I'm lying to him because I'm trying to say, well, I'm a family man.

你是个顾家的人。

You're a family man.

我们相处得很好。

Like, we're we're good.

现在你是在操纵这个人。

Now you're now you're manipulating the person.

那就完全是另一回事了。

And that's a whole different conversation.

所以回到你刚才说的，如果我理解了这个人的价值观，并且意识到他有一种，比如说，诚实的倾向。

So to go back to what you said, if if I understand this guy's values and I understand that there is a sense of, let's say, a sense of honesty.

也许这个人内心也有诚实的一面，或者他希望自己能够成为这样的人——我不知道，他希望自己的孩子把他看作一个有原则的人。

Maybe if there's a part of this person that's also honest or there's also a sense of he wants to be, I don't know, he wants his kids to see him as a man of integrity.

对吧？

Right?

我们就这么假设吧。

Let's just say that.

所以，这或许会演变成一个关于我们之间关系的对话，你知道，我只能想象，这对你来说有多困难。

So maybe that starts to become a conversation that we have as it relates to, you know, I can only imagine, you know, the difficulty that this has with you.

正如你告诉我的，你是个顾家的人。

As you've told me, you know, you're a family man.

我不会说你是顾家的人。

I'm not going to say you're a family man.

我会说，正如你告诉我的，你是个顾家的人。

I'm to say, as you told me, you're a family man.

而你提到顾家时，其中一个重点是，孩子对你来说有多重要，你要以身作则，通过诚实、开放这样的品质来树立榜样。

And one of the things that you said about being a family man was how important is your kids to to kinda, like, lead by your your model, like, role model aspects of that by honesty and openness and and those type of things.

所以，你明白我的意思了吗？

So do you hear where I'm going?

因此，我正朝着一个方向努力，那就是试图引导他重新理解父亲这一角色所代表的不同价值。

So I'm trending in the direction by which that I am trying to bring online still his father, but a different value under what it means to be a father.

因为我不想谈‘陪伴’，因为那可能会被忽略。

Because I don't wanna talk about being present because that's probably gonna go away.

但如果他试图教孩子承认错误，那也许这就是我要走的方向。

But if he is trying to teach his kids to own your mistakes, then maybe that's the direction I go.

但我要怎么才能做到这一点呢？

But how am I going to get that?

我会通过以非常真诚、坦率的方式开启与他的对话来实现，我会努力去理解对面的这个人是谁。

I'm going to get that because I'm going to start off my conversation with him in a very honest, genuine way that I'm going to try to understand who is this person across from me.

那么，操纵和影响之间的区别是什么？

And what's the difference between manipulation and influence?

影响是在某个时刻，以一种对你和对方都有利的方式，温和地引导一个人朝某个方向前进。

Influence is about nudging a person in a certain direction at a certain time that's beneficial for both you and them.

这就是影响。

That's influence.

明白了吗？

Got it?

操纵是让你把一个人推向某个特定方向，因为这对你有利。

Manipulation is you nudging a person in a specific direction because it's good for you.

这对你不利。

It's not good for them.

所以你会撒谎。

And so you'll lie.

你会不择手段地达成交易，让他们做某事，或让你得到你想要的东西。

You'll you'll do whatever you need to do to to close the deal, to get them to do something, to give them to give you something.

这就是操纵，因为它常常带来负面后果，对实施操纵的人而言。

That's manipulation because it's often one of those things that it has negative consequences to it in terms of the person who did it.

你知道，也许他们永远都不会发现，但你确实操纵了他们。

You know, maybe they never know, but you manipulated them.

这就是审讯。

Which is interrogations.

不是吗？

No?

因为如果他承认自己杀了这个孩子，他就会被判终身监禁。

Because this guy's gonna go he's gonna get life in jail if he admits that he killed this child.

所以这不符合他的利益，但符合我的利益。

So I'm that's not in his interests, but it's in mine.

因此，我会操纵他，让他交出秘密。

So I'm gonna manipulate him to give me the secrets.

如果你想要这么做，而且你认为这是你需要走的方向，那当然你可以这么做。

If that's what you wanna do and that's the direction you think you need to do, then by all means, you can do it.

在美国，你欺骗嫌疑人是合法的。

And here in The US, it is legal that you can lie to

哦，所以你们这些被审讯者。

Oh, so you subjects.

但你是说，撒谎正是它变成操纵的那一刻吗？

But So you're saying lying is the the the moment where it becomes manipulation?

是的。

Yes.

这成了一个捷径，而且不仅仅是在审讯室里如此。

That becomes the shortcut, and that becomes a way not just within the interrogation room.

我觉得重要的是，我经常看到这一点，人们都非常关注影响。

Like, I think what becomes important, and I've seen this come up a lot, people are all about, like, influence.

你经常会听到这种说法。

Like, you hear that come up quite a bit.

如果你想影响某人，这就是方法。

If you want to influence somebody, this is how you do it.

你要对他们诚实。

You're honest with them.

你要清晰透明，因为影响关乎的是你对我的感受，而不是你当时所做的一切。

You're clear and you're transparent because influence is about how do I feel about you, not about all the things that you're doing at that moment.

因为如果信任根本不在考虑范围内，如果我从一开始就不信任你，或者回到你之前说的，有一种模式识别，让我觉得这件事有问题。

Because if I don't if trusted isn't isn't even on the table, if I don't trust you to begin with, or I think that to go back to what you had said, there's this pattern recognition where I'm like, just think there's something wrong with this.

你不可能影响到我。

You're not going to be able to influence me.

如果我在所有事情上都对你坦诚，因为这就是我为人处世的方式，这不仅会降低你的认知负担——因为你不必对别人撒谎，还会凸显你的立场和你这个人是谁。

If I am honest with you in everything that I do, because that's how I carry myself, not only does it lower your cognitive load because you're not lying to somebody else, but it underscores who you stand for and who you are as a person.

有了这一点，人们会看到并说：你知道吗？

And with that, people are gonna see that and say, you know what?

史蒂文非常透明。

Steven's very transparent.

他说这是个好交易，我相信是因为这些原因。

He said this was a good deal, and I believe that for these reasons.

这关乎你是否对此保持诚实。

It's a matter of you being honest with that.

我现在总是会质疑，因为我经常看到这种情况，而且在和你们团队交流时提到的问题中也出现了。

I I always question now, like, because I see it a lot, and it came up in the in the questions that that I was talking to your team about.

为什么每个人都想影响别人呢？

It's like, why does everybody wanna influence somebody?

为什么他们会这样？这到底是为什么？

Like, why why do they what what is that?

你知道吗？

Do you know?

为什么这个问题总是出现？

Like, why does it come up all the time?

因为人们想达成什么目标呢？

Because What are people trying to accomplish?

因为他们想完成某件事。

Because they wanna accomplish something.

他们有一个目标。

They have a goal.

为谁？

For who?

为了他们自己。

For themselves.

对。

Right.

所以这就是影响吗？

So is that is that influence?

但它对某些人确实有效。

But it gets the job done for some for some people.

当然。

Sure.

确实有效。

It does.

但想想这一点。

But thinking about that.

是卡内基吗？

Was it Carnegie?

那本书叫什么？

What's that book?

它可能就在我身后，叫《影响力》，讲的是影响力的五大支柱，比如稀缺性。

It's probably behind me somewhere called influence, and it talks about the this five pillars of influence, things like So it's scarcity.

所以是罗伯特·西奥迪尼。

So it's, Robert Cialdini.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我们教这个。

We teach that.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种你能理解影响力为何有效的方式，了解不同的影响策略，以及它们各自的含义和在对话中何时适用。

It's one of those where you can understand why influence works, the different strategies of influence, like what they all stand for and when they fit within the within the conversation.

你可以做到。

You can do it.

我确实这么做。

I do it.

但我可以告诉你，史蒂文，作为一名沟通专家，我并不会整天到处走动试图影响别人。

But I can I can tell you, Steven, being a being a communication specialist, I don't spend my day walking around trying to influence people?

我会对人坦诚。

I will be honest with people.

我会保持透明。

I will be transparent.

我会用我所掌握的最佳信息来回答他们的问题。

I will answer their questions with the best information that I have.

如果人们因此受到启发，并且因为我的话而受到影响，这正是我所希望的。

And if people are inspired by that and and and that causes somebody to be influenced by the things that I said, that's that's what I want.

对吧？

Right?

我之前提到过，我所参与授课的培训学院，其核心就是开放性。

And I brought this up earlier, but the the training academy that that, you know, that I instruct with, it is all about openness.

这一切都关乎诚实。

It's all about honesty.

这一切都关乎根据人们来找我们的原因来帮助他们。

It's all about trying to help people based on why they've come to us.

这并不是为了操纵人们来加入我们。

And it's not about manipulating people to to come in and be a member.

关键在于你为什么在这里，以及我们如何帮助你？

It's about why are you here and how can we help you?

这是我们能做到的最好方式。

And this is the best way we can do that.

这会影响人们，并激励他们倾听你所说的话。

And that influences people and that inspires people to to listen to what you have to say.

为什么你的播客如此成功？

Why why is your podcast this successful?

你我第一次见面时，你说了一些我不同意的话。

The first time you and I met, you said something that I disagreed with.

那是什么？

What was that?

当时你在谈论Flight Story，提到你和Flight Story相关的各种事情，以及这个播客的成功。

And it was you were talking about Flight Story and you're talking about the different things you, you know, with Flight Story and the success of the podcast.

你说，这并不是因为我是个优秀的采访者。

And you said, it's not because I'm a good interviewer.

而是因为他们非常擅长营销。

It's because they're really good at marketing.

你是个优秀的采访者，是因为你展现出的脆弱性。

You're a good interviewer because of the vulnerabilities that you do.

每次我都对你的坦诚和开放感到惊讶，你如此真实地分享自己，这种连接中有着一条清晰的故事线索。

Every time I've been surprised on how vulnerable and open you are in terms of sharing with yourself, like there's that story arc in terms of how that connection is.

正因如此，你影响了我，不是因为你刻意为之，也不是因为你的团队主动联系我，而是因为你播客中的言谈举止、提出的问题以及展现的脆弱感。

Because of that, you influence me, not because you're trying to, not because your team reached out, but because of the way you carried yourself in your podcast and the questions that you ask and the vulnerability that you're showing.

这种真诚带来了一种信任感。

There is a level of trust that comes with that.

所以你并不是有意去影响别人。

And so you in you weren't trying to influence.

你只是做你自己。

You were being you.

你有一种自我一致性，你的真实自我和理想自我就是如此：这就是我平时做的事。

And there's a part of your self congruence, who you are, your ideal self, which is just like, this is just what I do.

我的生活并不完美。

And my life's not perfect.

我会分享那些混乱的部分。

And I'll share the parts that are messy.

我正试图利用这个平台去帮助数百万人。

And I'm trying to use this as a platform to help millions of people.

这意义重大。

That's a big deal.

这就是你建立信任的方式吗？

And is this how you build trust with people?

还是信任是另一个或相关的问题？

Or is trust a different or adjacent point?

信任关乎于展现脆弱。

So trust is about being vulnerable.

信任关乎于敞开心扉，分享一些关于你自己的事情。

Trust is about being open and sharing a little bit about yourself.

所以，真正的问题是，斯蒂文，我与你分享的这些内容，是否交到了可靠的人手中？

So truly, Steven, the question becomes, is what I've shared with you in good hands?

因为如果答案是否定的，那就成问题了。

Because if it's not, that's a problem.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

我问你一个问题。

Let me ask you a question.