家庭纽带

这个BBC播客由英国境外的广告支持。

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最佳食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《Good Food》播客的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food podcast.

每周，我都会与顶级厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革前沿的人士坐下来交谈，他们才是真正让美食变得精彩的人。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat, all the people who really make food great.

如果你热爱一顿美味的餐食和一场精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food》播客，每周二更新新鲜内容。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for the Good Food Podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

到时候见。

See you there.

你好，欢迎收听BBC世界服务的《食物链》。

Hello, and welcome to the food chain from the BBC World Service.

我是露丝·亚历山大。

I'm Ruth Alexander.

在平凡的日子里，食物是家庭生活的中心，无论是在日常的匆忙中、在各种戏剧性时刻里、在宁静的时光中，还是在变化的时刻。

Food is at the center of family life on ordinary days, in the everyday rush, in the dramas, the quieter moments, and at times of change.

在本节目中，我们将回顾2025年最具意义的若干时刻，这些时刻都围绕着家庭纽带这一主题。

In this programme, we're revisiting some of the most meaningful moments from 2025, all shaped by the theme of family ties.

从在陌生家中享用的第一顿饭，到烹饪如何在疾病中将人们凝聚在一起，这些故事展现了食物如何增强家庭纽带，以及它的缺失如何同样深刻地塑造人生。

From first meals in unfamiliar homes, to the way cooking can hold people together through illness, these stories show how food has the capacity to strengthen family bonds and how its absence can shape a life just as deeply.

当我和妈妈住在一起时，我会形容我们生活在贫困线以下。

So when I was living with my mom, I would describe us as below the poverty line.

我们非常、非常贫穷。

We were very, very poor.

我们经历无家可归的次数多到我几乎数不过来，这对任何年轻人来说都很艰难，但也意味着在我家生活时，食物并不总是充足。

We experienced homelessness more times than I can probably count on one hand, which is hard for any young person, but it also meant that food also wasn't always widely available when I was living at home.

我经常去学校，而那顿免费的校餐就是我一天中唯一的一餐。

I would often go to school, and that free school meal would be my one meal of the day.

我回家时，橱柜里往往没有食物。

And I would go home, there wouldn't be food in the cupboards.

这是杰西卡·雷·威廉姆森，二十出头，来自英国曼彻斯特。

This is Jessica Ray Williamson, who's in her early twenties and from Manchester, England.

在今年七月的节目《餐桌上的位置：领养的培育》中，杰西卡跟我讲述了她搬进寄养家庭的那一刻，以及她进入福利系统前童年的某些回忆。

In July for our episode, A Place at the Table, Fostering an Adoption, Jessica spoke to me about the moment she moved in with her foster parents, and these are some of her memories of her childhood before she went into care.

当妈妈吃饭时，我才能吃到东西，而她自己因为所经历的困境，吃饭并不频繁。

I would be fed when my mom ate, and she didn't eat very often because of the struggle she was going through.

这塑造了我对食物的态度——不仅是因为食物匮乏，更因为即使有食物，也是在她方便的时候才给我，而不是在我这个成长中的孩子需要的时候。

So that shaped my relationship with food because not only was it not available, but when it was, it was when it was convenient for her, not when, you know, a growing child needed it.

家里有食物时，一般是什么样的食物呢？

When there was food at home, what what sort of food was there?

我记得有时候我只能吃吐司、奶油饼干之类的东西。

I remember sometimes I would literally just be toast or or cream crackers or things like that.

有时候我只能吃到，比如燕麦粥。

Sometimes I would only get fed, you know, like porridge.

如果做了饭，那非常罕见，我妈妈只会做一道牧羊人派。

If there was a meal cooked, which was very rare, the only thing my mom could cook was a a cottage pie.

除此之外，就是非常基础的食物，比如意大利面、豆子配吐司和即食餐。

Other than that, it was, like, very basic, like noodles and beans on toast and ready meals.

从来没有什么新鲜食物或家常菜。

There was never really, fresh food or home cooked meals.

你还记得你和养父母一起吃的第一顿饭吗？

Do you remember the first meal you had with your foster parents?

记得。

Yeah.

那是我关于他们的第一个记忆。

It's it's literally the first memory I have of them.

我记得走进这栋漂亮的房子，害怕碰任何东西，因为太好了，我不敢弄坏任何东西。

I remember walking in to this gorgeous house and being scared to touch anything because it was so nice, and I didn't wanna break anything.

我养母给我做了意大利肉酱面，那就是我的第一个记忆——意大利肉酱面，说实话，那是个很美好的记忆。

And my foster mom had made me spaghetti bolognese, so that is my first memory, spaghetti bolognese, and it it was quite a good one, to be fair.

我没有吃完，但我想那可能只是因为我太紧张了，我想给他们留下好印象。

I didn't eat all of it, but I think that was probably just because I was so nervous because I wanted to make a good impression on them.

这感觉像是一种有压力的情况吗？

Did it feel like a sort of pressured situation?

你还记得你当时感觉如何吗？

Do you remember what

我感觉

It felt

你感觉？

you felt?

我感到一种巨大的压力，想要让他们满意。

I felt like an overwhelming pressure to impress them.

我希望他们想要我，希望我能和他们一起生活。

I wanted them to want me, and I wanted to, like, live with them.

所以我觉得自己必须表现得完美，必须在餐桌前坐得端庄得体，而我以前从未这样做过。

So I felt like I needed to, like, be perfect and, like, sit prim and proper at a table, which I'd never done.

对我来说，坐在餐桌旁和一家人共进晚餐真是太令人震惊了，但与此同时，我努力展现最好的自己，希望他们能因此说，是的，她可以和我们住在一起，之类的话。

Like, it was it was so shocking for me to be sat at a dinner table with a family, but at the same time, I was trying to be, like, the best version of myself so that they would then turn around and be like, yeah, she can come live with us, sort of thing.

我认为，对于寄养中的年轻人来说，努力让寄养家庭喜欢自己所带来的压力是极其巨大的。

I think the pressure of trying to get a foster family to like you is so overwhelming for young people in care.

杰西卡·雷·威廉姆森。

Jessica Ray Williamson.

坐在寄养孩子的对面，是什么感觉？

What's it like to be on the other side of the table to a newly fostered child?

你有糖吗？

Do you have sugar?

请给两块。

Two, please.

两块。

Two.

为了了解这一点，我前往威尔士北部，与一些专业寄养家长交谈。

To find out, I went to North Wales to speak to some professional foster carers.

其中有一位叫约翰的人，他和妻子薇夫在二十一年里收养了众多孩子。

Among them was John, who with his wife Viv has taken in numerous children over twenty one years.

你经常会遇到一些孩子刚来时会囤积食物。

You have instances where you have children who are hoarding food when they come to you.

这些孩子经历了大量创伤和忽视，他们不确定下一顿饭什么时候会有。

Children who have had a lot of trauma and a lot of neglect and they haven't been sure when the next meal is going to come.

当你打扫卧室时，你会发现：哦，原来所有的罐头豆子、苹果和其他东西都被藏到床底下了。

You will be tidying a bedroom and you'll find this, Oh, that's where all the tins of beans and all the apples and everything went under the bed.

因此，绝不能让他们感到羞耻或难堪。

So it's so important not to shame or embarrass them.

所以，我们过去的做法是，在他们的卧室里设置一个专属架子，把所有藏在床底下的东西都拿出来，放在显眼的地方，然后说：‘我们知道你有点担心，这里的东西都够用吗？’

So you would then, what we've done in the past, we would have a dedicated shelf in their bedroom, and everything would come out of under the bed, be put in a prominent place, and we say, Look, we can see you're a bit worried, is there everything there you need?

还有什么你需要的吗？

Is there there anything else you would like?

你可以放任何你想要的东西。

You can put anything you'd like.

那个架子上还有很多空间，你可以再放几样东西。

There's enough room on that shelf, you can put a few more things.

这由你来负责。

You're in charge of it.

你想要带点小吃上床吗？比如一盘三明治？

And would you like to take a snack, a plate with a few sandwiches up to bed with you?

而不是试图与之对抗，因为他们只是在做自己需要的事。

Rather than trying to fight against it because they're doing what they need.

如果你能以不让他们感到羞耻的方式来做，你会惊讶于这些问题如何迅速逐渐消失。

And if you can do that in an unshaming way, then you'd be surprised how fast those issues can gradually fade away.

关于食物，有太多事情需要关注。

There's so much around food.

每当孩子刚被安置进来时，我总会问他们：你最喜欢的食物是什么？

The question I always ask a child when they first come into placement is, What's your favourite food?

今晚晚餐我就吃那个。

I'm going to have that for tea tonight.

约翰，我们是由福斯特威尔士介绍给他的。

John, whom we were introduced to by Foster Wales.

在同一项目中，我们了解到被收养到一个与自己原有饮食文化不同的家庭会是什么样子。

In the same programme, we found out what it can be like to be adopted into a different food culture to your own.

我采访了梅丽莎·吉达·理查兹，她是一位收养教育者，也是《白人父母应了解的跨种族收养》一书的作者。

I spoke to Melissa Guida Richards, an adoption educator and author of the book What White Parents Should Know About Transracial Adoption.

她在美国一个意大利-葡萄牙家庭中长大，直到19岁才意识到自己是从哥伦比亚收养来的。

She grew up in an Italian Portuguese household in The United States, only realizing when she was 19 that she'd been adopted from Colombia.

得知自己有拉丁血统后，我做的第一件事之一就是寻找一些食谱，最简单的那种。

One of the first things I ever did after finding out about my Latin roots was finding some recipes and the simplest things.

于是我试着煎了一些香蕉（植物蕉）。

And so I tried frying up some platanos, some plantains.

我觉得那简直是我和水果有过最滑稽的遭遇了，因为我完全不知道怎么打开它。

And I think it was, like, the most hilarious encounter ever with a fruit because I had no idea how to open it.

等我弄完这个植物蕉时，它已经满是凹痕，差不多只有一半幸存下来。

By the time I was done with this plantain, it had so many indentations and like half of it survived.

我觉得这恰恰生动地体现了远离自己文化的感觉——我尽了全力，倾注了全部心意，但这一切依然遥不可及。

And I think it was just like a perfect example of what not being surrounded by my culture was in a tangible way because here I was trying with all my might, putting my heart into it, and still, like, it was just out of reach.

事情没有顺利进行，这让我感到非常不安。

It wasn't working out, and it made me so uncomfortable.

食物的味道并不好。

The food didn't taste great.

我后来试着做阿雷帕斯，但用错了玉米粉，所以面团根本粘不起来。

I ended up trying to make arepas, and I used, like, the wrong cornflour so it wasn't sticking right.

厨房里一片混乱，这让我感到非常沮丧，甚至觉得自己是个失败者。

And it was just, like, a disaster in the kitchen that made me feel really dejected and honestly, like a failure.

但这只是梅丽莎试图通过烹饪与自己哥伦比亚根源建立联系的开端。

It was just the beginning though of Melissa's culinary attempts to connect with her Colombian side.

最终，一切终于融会贯通了。

And eventually, it all came together.

大约两年前，我有幸前往哥伦比亚，当时我们来到了我亲生母亲的家乡泽塔基拉，那是我第一次亲自见到她。

About two years ago, I had the wonderful opportunity to to go to Colombia, and we were in my birth mother's town, Zetaquira, and that was the first time I ever met her in person.

我们一直通过WhatsApp和电话保持联系，因此我们在西班牙语翻译上仍然有困难。

We had been corresponding over, WhatsApp and phone calls, And so we always still struggle with the translation for Spanish.

我能听懂一点，但在我要离开的倒数第二天晚上，发生了一件事，当时我们在妈妈的厨房里。

I can understand a bit, but there was this moment, it was about the second to last night before I had to leave, and we were in my mama's kitchen.

那是一个非常非常简单的家，炉子是用木柴加热的。

And this was a very, very simple home where the stove, it was heated by logs of wood.

她一边做饭，一边摆着几个碗，用手直接和面。

And so she's cooking, she has a bunch of bowls, and she's just using her hands to mix the dough.

她在做阿雷帕饼。

She's making arepas.

她把满满的爱倾注在这顿饭里，以一种非常具体的方式让我感受到：我就是你的妈妈。

Just pouring her love into this meal, she was able to show me, like, in a very tangible way, like, this is like, I'm your mother.

我在喂你吃饭。

I'm feeding you.

这就是妈妈们最简单不过的举动之一。

Like, that's one of the very simple things that moms do.

你知道，它们提供营养和慰藉。

You know, they they provide sustenance and comfort.

就在那一刻，我终于感觉到，哇。

Just that moment, it finally felt like, wow.

这就是我的家人。

Like, this is my family.

梅丽莎·吉达·理查兹。

Melissa Guida Richards.

安妮·YK·蔡表示，她的家人通过经营便利店——在加拿大被称为杂货店——获得了归属感。

A sense of belonging was what Anne YK Choi says her family got from running convenience stores or variety stores as they're known in Canada.

他们于1975年从韩国移民到多伦多。

They'd emigrated from South Korea to Toronto in 1975.

今年四月，我为《如何经营一家本地商店》这一集采访了安妮，她告诉我，他们的生意帮助他们融入了社区。

And when I talked to Anne in April for the episode, How to Run a Local Shop, she told me that their business helped them fit into the community.

不过，这确实对家庭生活造成了影响。

It did take its toll on family life, though.

我们早上七点开门。

We open at seven in the morning.

我们晚上十一点关门。

We close at 11PM.

你们每天都开门吗？

You're open every day.

圣诞节那天，我们早点关门了。

On Christmas, we closed a little earlier.

而且，这种情况一直持续下去。

And, again, that just went on and on.

但关键是，因为我们就是这样长大的，所以不知道其他生活方式。

But the thing is, because this was how we grew up, we didn't know anything else.

既然营业时间是从早上七点到晚上十一点，家庭生活是怎么安排的呢？

How did family life fit around the store given that the hours were seven in the morning till 11:00 at night?

通常，雇额外的人手非常困难。

Often, it's very, very difficult to hire extra help.

所以，通常都是家人吧？

So, often it's the family, right?

我们以前都是轮着吃饭，有趣的是，那时候我们认为这再正常不过了，如果过生日，也得等到晚上十一点店关门后才庆祝，而且我们经常住在楼上，来回走动很方便。

We used to eat in shifts and the funny thing is, it seemed so normal to us back then that if we had a birthday that we would have to celebrate it after the store closes at eleven and because often, we lived upstairs, so it was easy to go back and forth.

我已经和我丈夫结婚二十七年了，这段婚姻非常美好，但我还记得早年的日子。

I have been married to my husband now for twenty seven years and it's been amazing, but I remember the early years.

因为我不习惯一家人坐在一起吃饭。

It was like because I was not used to sitting and eating as a family.

这并不是我成长过程中所熟悉的。

That wasn't what I knew growing up.

而要有这样的期望，你知道，哇。

And to have, you know, this expectation that, wow.

一家人坐在一起吃晚饭，聊天。

You sit and have dinner together and you talk.

对吧？

Right?

就像你会互相问，你今天过得怎么样？

It's like you ask each other, what was your day like?

而且，我真的没有耐心做这些，因为吃饭就是做完就去干下一件事。

And again, I didn't have the patience for that because eating was something you do and then you move on to your next task.

我记得当我还年轻的时候开始写作，我会写一些诗和短篇故事，把杂货店拟人化成一个吞噬我们的怪物，因为它对我们要求太多。

I remember as a teenager when I started writing, I would write, you know, these poems and these short stories and I would personify the variety store as this monster that would eat us, that would consume us because it demanded so much from us.

我妈妈几乎把杂货店当成她最后一个孩子。

My mom almost saw the variety store as her last child.

她花了那么多时间在上面，给予了那么多关爱。

She spent so much time on it, gave it so much care.

我有两个弟弟。

And I have two younger brothers.

所以，杂货店真的成了我们的最后一个兄弟姐妹，因为它养活了整个家庭。

So, really, The Variety Store became our last sibling because it was the sibling that fed the entire family.

它是最重要的一位兄弟姐妹。

It was the most important sibling.

因此，我最大的感悟是：天啊，我曾经对母亲如此愤怒，这构成了故事的核心，但其实没什么可原谅的，因为她并没有做错任何事。

And so, the biggest takeaway for me was that, oh my gosh, I was so angry with my mother, which is at the core of the story, but there was nothing to forgive because she did nothing wrong.

她在当时的情况下做出了最好的选择，而我们每个人在任何时刻都在尽自己最大的努力。

She made the the best choices she could given the circumstances and that we are all doing the very, very best at any given moment.

安妮·Y·蔡，《K的幸运硬币杂货店》作者。

Anne YK Choi, author of k's Lucky Coin Variety.

您正在收听BBC世界服务频道的《食物链》。

You're listening to the food chain from the BBC World Service.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最佳食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《美食播客》的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food Podcast.

每周，我都会与顶尖厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食方式变革的人士坐下来交谈，这些真正让食物变得精彩的人。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat, all the people who really make food great.

如果你喜欢美味的餐食和精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food Podcast》，每周二更新新鲜 episodes。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for The Good Food Podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

我们那里见。

See you there.

我是露丝·亚历山大。

I'm Ruth Alexander.

本周，再次聆听我们在2025年做过的最令人难忘的访谈。

And this week, another chance to listen to some of the most memorable interviews we've done in 2025.

我们的家庭曾因食物过敏而经历真正的悲痛。

We have dealt with real grief in our family over food allergies.

我曾九次使用EpiPen拯救维维安的生命。

I've had to EpiPen Vivian nine times to keep her alive.

当女儿还小的时候，我抱着她，听她因不公平——自己有食物过敏而其他孩子没有——连续哭上数小时。

I have held my daughter when she was younger while she sobbed for hours because it was so unfair that she has food allergies and other kids don't.

为什么我总是不被邀请参加生日派对？

And why am I not getting invited to birthday parties?

为什么我不能被邀请去参加玩伴聚会？

Why am I not invited to play dates?

家长们会告诉我，他们只是太害怕让她在那里了。

Parents would tell me, you know, they were just too afraid to have her there.

这真的让我很难过。

And that really hurts.

这是来自美国犹他州的阿曼达·B，她是维维安的母亲，维维安是一名热爱踢足球的青少年，对牛肉、牛奶和火龙果严重过敏。

This is Amanda B in Utah, The United States, the mother of Vivian, a young teenager who loves to play soccer and is severely allergic to beef, cow's milk and dragon fruit.

我随身总是带着肾上腺素自动注射器，会仔细阅读所有食品的成分标签，确保自己不吃任何可能引起过敏的东西。

I always keep my EpiPen with me, and I read the ingredient labels on everything, and I just make sure that I don't eat anything that I'm allergic to.

她还必须避免交叉接触，因此需要频繁洗手和大量沟通。

And she has to avoid cross contact as well, so lots of hand washing, lots of communication.

比如，我不能吃那些和牛肉汉堡用同一设备烹制过的鸡肉。

Like I can't eat chicken that was that's, like, cooked on the same thing that, like, a like, that, like, a beef burger was cooked on.

我和维维安以及阿曼达进行了对话，制作了一期名为《可能含有过敏原风险》的节目，讨论了在即使微量错误成分都可能带来危险的情况下，购物、做饭和外出就餐的真实体验。

I spoke to Vivian and Amanda for an episode we called may contain the food allergy risk, in which we talked about what it's like to shop for groceries, cook, and eat out when even a trace of the wrong ingredient could be dangerous.

维维安六个月大时，我们发现她有危及生命的食物过敏。

Vivian was six months old when we found out that she had life threatening food allergies.

我们去亲戚家时，我妈妈给了她一颗草莓，上面还沾了一点鲜奶油。

We were over at family's house, and my mother gave her a strawberry with a lick of whipping cream on it.

瞬间，她全身都起了荨麻疹。

Instantly, you know, she broke out in hives all over.

我当时就在诊室里，和过敏科医生在一起，泪流满面，震惊不已，心想：我该怎么喂她呢？

So I'm just in the office, you know, with the allergist just in tears and in shock going, how am I supposed to feed her?

我甚至不知道还有别的办法。

I didn't even know there was another way.

她对我说：你看，你需要这么做。

And, you know, she's like, look, here's what you need to do.

你给她吃新鲜水果、新鲜蔬菜和鸡肉。

You feed her fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, chicken.

我们立刻决定我要成为全职妈妈，工作根本不可能，因为我们连把她放进购物车都不敢。

And we decided right away that I was going to be a stay at home mom, that working was just not an option because we couldn't even put her in a grocery cart.

你知道，如果我们带她去公园，而别人的手上沾了乳制品碰过游乐设施，她就会立刻起荨麻疹。

You know, we couldn't bring her to the park without her breaking out in hives from somebody else having touched park equipment with some sort of dairy on their hands.

所以一开始，我们把生活范围缩得很小，然后慢慢才逐渐让其他人加入进来。

So it was just we made our world very small in the beginning and then we slowly added people in.

这种情况持续了好几年。

And that's how it was for for a number of years.

但这从来不是我们的长期计划。

That was never the long term plan, though.

从一开始我就知道，我希望她的世界是广阔的。

I knew from the very beginning that I wanted her world to be big.

我必须找到实现这一点的方法。

And I had to find a way to make that happen.

比如，鼓起勇气走进一家餐厅，让经理对你说：‘如果她是我的女儿，我会让她待在家里。’

It's things like finding the bravery to walk into a restaurant and having the managers tell you something like, well, if she were my daughter, I would just keep her home.

你为什么要出来呢？

Why do you even try to come out?

每次去一家新餐厅，你都觉得是在冒险吗？

Does it feel like a risk every time you you go to a new restaurant?

哦，百分之百是这样。

Oh, a 100%.

让我告诉你维维安第一次吃披萨的经历。

Let me tell you about the first time Vivian had pizza.

嗯。

K.

她当时三岁，我的朋友林赛说：‘嘿，有一家不含乳制品的披萨店，咱们去试试吧。’

She was three years old and my friend Lindsey, she was like, hey, there's a dairy free pizza place, you know, let's go try it.

所以我先打了电话，问他们能不能提供无乳制品的餐食？

So I called first, know, are they going be able to accommodate?

他们说可以。

They said they would.

我们去了那家餐厅。

We go to the restaurant.

我花了三十多分钟和经理交谈。

I spent probably thirty plus minutes talking to the manager.

他们拿出了每一件物品的成分清单。

They brought out every single item with the ingredients list.

我仔细阅读了所有内容，并进行了详细讨论。

I read through all of it, discussed in detail.

哦，天哪，我有张照片。

And oh, shoot, I have the picture.

她终于等到披萨上桌时，高兴得不得了，那都快是一个小时后了。

She was so happy that pizza finally came out, like, almost an hour later.

她脸上露出了最大的笑容。

The biggest smile on her face.

她咬了一大口。

She takes a big bite.

几分钟内，她全身就起了荨麻疹。

Within minutes, she's in hives all over.

我们叫经理过来。

We're calling the manager over.

我当时想，我得走了。

I'm like, I've gotta go.

我得给她注射肾上腺素笔，马上送她去医院。

I need to EpiPen her and get her to the hospital right now.

我会打电话，稍后付款。

I'll call and pay later.

所以

So

这种无乳酪里含有乳制品。

There was dairy in the dairy free cheese.

我认为是交叉污染的问题。

I I believe it was a cross contact problem.

所以，是的，这真的很可怕。

So, yeah, it's it is scary.

每次你外出吃饭，每次你不是自己准备食物时，都让人害怕。

Every time you go out to eat somewhere, every time you are not preparing the food, it is scary.

对于那些询问过你的餐厅工作人员，以及可能也在好奇的听众来说，你为什么还要坚持去餐厅，承担你不得不面对的风险呢？

And to the restaurant staff who've asked you and to people perhaps listening, wondering as well, why is it that you persist in going to restaurants and and taking the risks that you have to take?

因为我的女儿有权占据空间，她有权过上正常的生活。

Because my daughter deserves to take up space, and she deserves to live a normal life.

我会尽我所能，让为我女儿提供便利变得容易。

I will do everything in my power to make it easy to accommodate my daughter.

但我不会告诉她：你有残疾，所以你待在家里。

But what I won't do is tell her, you have a disability, so you stay home.

维维安，对于刚发现自己有过敏症的年幼孩子，你会给他们什么建议？

Vivian, what advice would you give to a younger child who's just found out they have allergies like yours?

不要因为尝试新食物而和父母作对。

Don't fight your parents about trying new foods.

你能吃的食物种类是有限的。

So there's only a certain amount of foods that you can have.

所以如果你的父母找到了一种你也可以吃的新食物，他们可是花了很大力气才找到的。

So if your parents just found a new food that you can have, they looked very hard for that food.

所以你至少应该试一试，看看喜不喜欢。

So you should at least try it to see if you like it.

你需要对食物的选择保持开放态度，不能太挑食。

And you just need to be, like, very open about your options for food, and you can't be that picky.

哇。

Wow.

阿曼达，听到一个年轻人说出如此理性的建议，一定让你非常自豪吧。

Amanda, that must make you very proud to hear such reasoned advice coming from a young person.

确实如此。

That really is.

这让我感到无比自豪。

That makes me incredibly proud.

我以前从未听她说过这些话，我总是为她感到骄傲。

I have not heard her say that before and I'm always so proud of her.

阿曼达和维维安·B。

Amanda and Vivian B.

倾听长辈的意见，信任他们对食物的了解，这一点在我们制作的关于姜黄的一集中再次被提及。

Listening to your elders and trusting what they know about food is something that came up again in an episode we made about turmeric.

我们前往英格兰北部哈利法克斯的西玛·尼亚波尔和她母亲塞拉的家中，了解这种香料在代际护理中所起的作用。

We visited the homely kitchen of Seema Nyapol and her mother, Serla, in Halifax, Northern England, to find out the role the spice has played in the care of generations.

所以我妈妈总说，虽然我们用的是同样的食谱，但我的烹饪味道总是不一样，因为印度人从不精确计量。

So my mom always says that my cooking, though we use the same recipe, always tastes different because with Indians it's not measured.

而是靠一种叫做‘mvaza’的估算方法。

It's done by what's called 'mvaza' which is a guesstimate.

所以我通常会放比她更多的姜黄。

So I tend to put in a bit more turmeric than she does.

她则会放更多其他的香料。

She tends to put in more of some of the other spices.

这需要一种平衡。

There's a balance.

每次都有一点不同。

It's always a bit different.

我出生在印度。

I was born in India.

小时候，我记得印地语中姜黄叫‘haldi’，几乎用在所有烹饪中。

In our childhood, I remember that turmeric in Hindi, they call it haldi, That is used in almost all the cooking.

我们的母亲和祖母，如果我们受伤或不舒服，就会立刻说：‘喝点姜黄牛奶，加点热牛奶。’

And our mothers and grandmothers, if we got hurt or anything, soon they will say, oh, drink haldi milk, turmeric, and some hot milk.

这能增强免疫力。

And that will give you immunity.

喝下去也能帮助伤口愈合。

It will heal the wound also by drinking.

如果有人受伤，他们也会迅速拿来姜黄撒上去，说它也能促进伤口愈合。

And so if anyone got hurt also, they will quickly bring turmeric and sprinkle, and they say that it heals the wound as well.

塞拉和西玛·纳加普尔。

Selah and Seema Nagpal.

你可以收听《姜黄，金色香料》这一节目，它通过追踪你获取BBC播客的各个渠道，探究关于姜黄健康益处的各种说法。

You can listen to Turmeric, the Golden Spice, a program which examines the claims made about its health benefits by searching for the food chain wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

食物有时能比言语更有力地表达关怀，这正是我们制作节目《让食物说话》的初衷。

Food can express care, sometimes more powerfully than words, and that was the idea behind the program we called let food do the talking.

在这一段中，英国曼彻斯特大学中国文化研究讲师徐超坤博士告诉我们，某些食物如何不断将他拉回故乡。

In this excerpt, Doctor Xin Chao Kun, a lecturer in Chinese Cultural Studies at the University of Manchester in The UK, told us how certain foods keep pulling him back home.

我来自中国北方，在中国北方，通常有送别时送饺子、迎接时煮面条的习俗。

I'm from Northern part of China, And in North China, I think mostly there is the custom of sending someone away with dumplings, but welcoming them back with noodles.

饺子呈圆形。

Dumplings are shaped in a rounded manner.

这可能象征着团聚的可能。

It may gesture toward potential reunion.

而且饺子本身就是一种吉祥的食物。

And dumplings auspicious food anyway.

对吧？

Right?

它们在节日场合食用，比如春节，因此具有这种吉祥的寓意。

They are eaten on festival occasions, like spring festival, and so they have that kind of auspicious connotations.

当人们回家时，会用面条来迎接他们，这可能是因为面条的形状，仿佛面条能将他们牢牢系在家门口，这样他们就不会离家太远了，对吧？

When people return home, noodles are used to welcome them, probably because of the shape of the noodles, and they are as if the noodles can tie them back at home, right, so that they don't have to go far away from home.

我突然想到，每次我回家时，我父母总会为我准备一些面条。

And it just occurs to me that every time when I go back home, I think my parents always prepare some noodles for me.

是的。

Yeah.

当你回家后，面条端上桌时，那种感觉是不是特别温馨？

Is that a really nice feeling when the noodles come to the table when you've returned home?

是的。

Yes.

当然。

Definitely.

我妈妈还会用一种当地的酱料。

My mother always uses some kind of local sauce as well.

所以这其中带有一丝地方特色，深深唤起了对家乡的思念。

So there's that tinge of a locality, right, and which has the strong evocation of hometown.

而且

And

她把你牢牢地系在了你的根上。

She's tying you back down to your roots.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

赵坤欣博士。

Doctor Chao Kun Shin.

正是厨房里那些细微的实际举动，展现了你的关心。

It can be the small practical acts in the kitchen that show you care.

在七月播出的《与痴呆症共进健康饮食》这一集中，我采访了一对夫妇，他们一生中第一次共用厨房。

In the episode, Eating Well with Dementia, broadcast in July, I spoke to a couple who were sharing a kitchen for the first time in their lives.

好的。

Okay.

我来开始。

I'll start.

我叫帕沙·库雷希。

My name is, Pasha Kureshi.

我们住在加拿大安大略省米尔顿。

We live in, Milton, Ontario, Canada.

请介绍一下你自己，露比。

Please introduce yourself, Ruby.

我叫鲁比娜·库雷希，住在米尔顿。

My name is Rubina Kureshi and I live in Milton.

你能跟我讲讲你们俩的情况吗？特别是露比确诊阿尔茨海默病之前你们的关系？

Would you tell me a bit about yourselves specifically your relationship before Ruby's Alzheimer's diagnosis?

家里谁主要负责做饭？

Who did most of the cooking at home?

露比一直是家里的女王。

Ruby was always the queen of the house.

她决定做什么菜、什么时候做、做什么菜，所有这些事情都是她说了算。

She did decide what to cook, when to cook, what to cook, and all that stuff.

在我看来，她是最好的厨师。

She was the best cook in my opinion.

过了一段时间，我再也吃不下别人做的饭，只吃露比做的。

After a while, I just could not eat anybody else food but rubies.

但确诊阿尔茨海默病后，情况慢慢发生了变化。

But after diagnosis of Alzheimer's, slowly things changed.

我们曾有过一些情况，比如她忘了菜烧糊了，或者有时候发现某些食材不见了。

We had episodes that, you know, she'd forgotten it's burned, Or sometimes some ingredients are missing.

于是，我开始站在她身边，帮她一起做。

So then I started to stand with her and help her.

比如，她喜欢烘焙，曾向我叔叔承诺要给他烤个蛋糕。

For example, she enjoyed baking and she promised my uncle that I'm gonna bake cake for you.

她确实做了，但蛋糕没发起来，因为她忘了放小苏打。

And she did, and then it did not raise, like she forgot to put baking soda.

现在我会把所有东西都写下来，并打个勾标记我已经放了这些东西。

Now I write down everything and I mark a tick mark that this thing I put it in there.

慢慢地，我习惯了该如何应对这种情况。

And slowly I get used to how I'm gonna deal with it.

所以你现在做菜时会逐项打勾确认吗？

So you tick off ingredients as you go now?

是的，我会先把所有东西都写下来，记得每一步，但我还是不放心自己是否做对了。

Yeah, I write down first everything and I remember everything but I don't trust myself that did I do it right?

所以我写下来，并打勾标记这些我已经放进去的东西。

So I write down and I tick mark that these things I already put it in there.

帕沙，你进入厨房帮助露比感觉容易吗？

Pasha, how easy has it been for you to come into the kitchen to assist Ruby?

因为这一直都是她的地盘。

Because it's always been her domain.

她是个绝对的专家。

She's an absolute expert.

要快速上手一定不容易。

It can't have been easy to just to get up to speed.

作为照顾者，对我来说关键的一点是确保她一直做自己享受的事情。

One of the key thing as a care partner for me is to make sure that whatever she enjoys, she keeps doing that.

所以我不想接管，我想协助她。

So one thing is that I don't want to take over, I want to assist her.

我这辈子从来没做过饭，除了给自己泡杯茶。

And I personally never cooked in my life other than making a cup of tea for myself.

但现在，如果需要的话，我会向她学习，观察她怎么做。

But now, if needed be, I learned from her, I observed what she does.

她总是为自己是厨房和家里的女王而感到自豪。

And she is always proud of being the queen of the kitchen and the house.

让她继续做这些事，对我来说非常重要。

And it's very important for me that she keep doing that.

Ruby，几十年来你一直是厨房的主宰，现在突然有别人进来帮你，感觉怎么样？

And Ruby, what's it like for you having reigned supreme in the kitchen for decades to suddenly have somebody else in there helping you?

当我意识到我的大脑出了问题时，我心里很高兴有人来帮忙，但我还是想自己做，只要我请你帮忙，你就陪在我身边。

When I realised what's going on with my brain, I was happy inside that somebody's there, but still I want to do it myself and whatever I ask him, you come and stay with me.

她很享受有个帮厨陪着，你知道的，她现在有个助手了。

She's enjoying having a sous chef with her, you know, so she got an assistant.

我只是在想，很多在听的太太们可能会想，要是我丈夫也能进厨房帮忙就好了。

I'm just thinking of the many wives out there listening thinking, if only my husband would come in and help in the kitchen.

所以我能理解这其中的吸引力。

So, I can see the appeal.

你会说，自从你进厨房帮忙后，你们的关系有了不同的变化吗？

Would you say that your relationship has been put on a different footing since you stepped in the kitchen to help?

啊，我非常喜欢这样。

Ah, I love it.

以前我总是忙得团团转，什么事都自己做，但现在他帮我，我们一起做。

Before I was, like, running around like everything, doing all these things, But now he helps me and we do it together.

一切都那么平静，我不知道该怎么形容，但我很喜欢。

It's so calm and I don't know how to say it, but I like it.

我喜欢

I like

是啊，她说她喜欢，但有时候我会让她感到压力，因为我根本不懂烹饪，你知道吗？

Yeah, she's saying she's like it, but sometime I overwhelm her because I don't know anything about cooking, you know?

我现在懂的这些，都是通过观察她学来的。

And whatever I know now is because observing her.

然后上YouTube，你想找的任何食谱都能找到。

And then onto YouTube, every recipe you want, you get there.

所以有时候我们确实会有分歧，他们会说：‘要这样做。’

So sometime we do have some clashes, they're, Do this way.

但我跟她说：‘阿姨，您俩告诉我，要这样做。’

But I said, No, Auntie, you two tell me do this way.

然后她承认了。

And she confessed it.

她走出去，冷静一下，然后回来。

She walks out, know, calm down, she come back.

是啊，我的意思是，这些事是因为那是她的地盘，你知道的，就像一头母狮，你要是踏入她的地盘，她就会不高兴。

Yeah, I mean, those things are, because that's her territory, you know, just a lioness, you know, like if you step in her territory, she gets upset.

但我们还是能处理好。

But we manage it.

有时候她感到沮丧时，我不想让她看到我做不到。

And sometimes when she gets frustrated, I don't want her to see that I cannot do it.

我希望她继续做下去，这样她就能保持那份自豪、勇气和继续做这些事的动力。

I want her to keep doing it so she have that pride and courage and will to continue doing all these things.

我只是稍微帮点忙，但绝对不想接管厨房。

So I'm just a little help, but I don't want to take over kitchen for sure.

现在我准备好了。

Now I'm ready.

你可以接手了。

You can take I over

做了四十五年。

did for forty five years.

现在你可以接替了。

Now you can take over.

我们有时会争论这个问题，但是

That's a debate we have sometime, but

帕沙和鲁比·科雷希来自加拿大。

Pasha and Ruby Koreshi in Canada.

感谢他们，也感谢本节目中呈现的今年食物链中一些最令人难忘的时刻的各位。

Thanks to them and to everyone who's featured in this programme of some of the most memorable moments from the food chain this year.

如果你想完整收听任何一集，它们都可在网络上和播客中收听。

If you'd like to listen to any of the episodes in full, they're all available online and as podcasts.

只需搜索BBC《食物链》。

Just search for BBC The Food Chain.

我们非常期待听到您对节目的看法，以及您希望我们制作哪些主题的节目。

We'd love to hear what you think of the show and what you would like us to make programs about.

所以，请将您的反馈和建议发送至 thefoodchainbbc dot co dot uk。

So do please email your feedback and ideas to thefoodchainbbc dot co dot uk.

我是露丝·亚历山大，制作人罗梅拉·多斯·古塔，编辑莎拉·韦森，以及整个《食品链》团队。

From me, Ruth Alexander, producer Romella Dos Gupta, editor, Sarah Waveson, and the whole of the Food Chain team.

感谢收听，我们下周再见。

Thanks for listening, and join us again next week.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最佳食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《好食物播客》的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food Podcast.

每周，我都会与顶尖厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革的人士畅谈，那些真正让美食变得精彩的人。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat, All the people who really make food great.

如果你热爱美味佳肴和精彩对话，请在 Spotify 上搜索《好食物播客》，每周二更新新鲜内容。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for the Good Food podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

到时候见。

See you there.