第581集 | 我们对智慧的迫切需求：为人父母

欢迎收看恩典时刻节目，这是一个基督教节目，深入探讨我们日常生活中的挑战，帮助我们以实际的方式学习信仰。

Welcome to the Grace Hour Show, a Christian program that takes a dive into our daily challenges and helps us learn our faith in a practical way.

我叫贾斯敏·菲尔德，今天在现场与我美丽的搭档米歇尔·贝努瓦一起主持。

My name is Jasmine Field, and I am joined here with my beautiful cohost, miss Michelle Benoit in the studio.

米歇尔，新年快乐。

Michelle, happy New Year.

新年快乐。

Happy New Year.

我希望你的圣诞节过得非常美好。

I hope Christmas was wonderful.

过得宁静而愉快。

It was nice and quiet.

我们非常兴奋能与大家一同开启新的一年，也希望你们度过了一个蒙福的圣诞节和新年。

And we're just so excited to be able to kick off the New Year with you all And we hope that you had a blessed Christmas and New Year as well.

我们有一个惊人的消息要宣布。

Well, have an incredible announcement.

首先，

First of all,

庆祝我们周年快乐。

happy anniversary to us.

哦。

Oh.

你和我一起做Grace Hour正好五年了。

It is exactly five years that you and I have been doing Grace Hour.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我们是从2021年1月13日开始的。

We started on 01/13/2021.

天啊。

Oh my god.

感谢安德鲁·洛尼斯牧师对我们的信任和信心。

So thank you pastor Andrew Lonis for having pastor Steve Andrew Lonis for having confidence and faith in us.

是的。

Yes.

谢谢

Thank

你。

you.

我们讨论了基督的心志，这似乎非常及时。

And we spoke on the mind of Christ and it just seems like it's very timely.

我们谈到了教会中发生的冒犯行为，我们决定，当过错在他人时，我们要学会原谅。

We talked about offenses that happen in the church and we decided when it's the fault of others, we learn to forgive.

当过错在我们时，我们要道歉并学会谦卑。

When it's our fault, we apologize and learn humility.

当是魔鬼的干扰时，我们要学会分辨，而学习这些事情的最佳场所莫过于教会。

And when it's demonic interference, we learn discernment and what better place to learn these things than in the church.

哇。

Wow.

贾斯敏，生日快乐！

So happy anniversary, Jasmine.

哦，米歇尔，生日快乐！

Oh, happy anniversary, Michelle.

你记得这件事，我真的很感动。

I'm so touched that you remembered that.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不客气。

Welcome.

我们一直很好。

We've been doing great.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

你还有一个公告要宣布。

You have another announcement too.

关于这个冬天在周二早晨圣经学习中推出的一个精彩资源。

Something about a wonderful resource that's being introduced this winter in the Tuesday Morning Bible Study.

它从1月20日开始。

It starts on January 20.

好的。

Okay.

我觉得那是在两周后。

Which I think is in two weeks.

如果你在线注册，就可以参加9:45的《箴言》31章学习。

And if you sign up online, you can come 945 doing Proverbs 31.

这是我们最漂亮的一本书，但我们收录了来自全球20位女性的灵修内容。

And this is our prettiest book, but we have 20 devotionals from women around the world.

哇。

Wow.

太不可思议了。

It's incredible.

所以来上课才能拿到这本书，而这本书直到大会才会发售。

So it'd be worth coming to the class to get that book and the book itself won't be available until convention.

哦，原来如此。

Oh, okay.

所以如果你不来上课，就得等到六月才能得到它。

So if you don't come to class, you don't get it until June.

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

哇。

Wow.

箴言第31章。

Proverbs chapter 31.

蕴含了太多智慧。

So much wisdom.

是的。

Yep.

这对我们今天的节目来说太贴切了。

Which is so fitting for our show today.

今天，我们谈论的是为人父母的智慧。

Today, we are talking about wisdom for parenthood.

是的。

Yep.

你知道吗，米歇尔，我有一半的内心非常迫切地想多学点东西。

And you know, it's so funny, Michelle, because half of me has this very desperate attitude to learn more.

而另一半的我却只想一直笑，因为我们在努力保持一种持续的平衡：既要理解我们作为父母、作为孩子照顾者的、上帝赐予的能力，又要保持谦卑。

And then the other half of me just wants to laugh and laugh and laugh because this is a constant balance that we're trying to have between understanding our ability, our God given abilities to parent and be a covering over our children or the children we're taking care of.

因为上帝比我们更了解这些孩子，就像祂比我们更了解每一个人一样。

But also we have to have a humility as well because God knows these children just like He knows everyone better than we do.

因此，不断向祂寻求指引至关重要。

And constant consultation from Him is so integral.

如果你希望成为一位在灵性上成功的父母，没有神的帮助，你根本无法为人父母。

There is no way to parent without having God's help if you want to be a spiritually successful parent.

我们刚才谈到了这一点。

We were talking about that.

这并不是关于世界上有多种定义的‘成功育儿’。

This isn't about successful parenting that has many definitions in the world.

我们想要成为灵性上成功的父母，这有很大的不同。

We want to be spiritually successful parents and that's a big difference.

我们这一周的主题是迫切需要智慧。

Well, our week's topic is desperate need for wisdom.

所以，我自然去查了‘绝望’的定义。

So of course, I had to look up the definition for desperation.

它指的是一种无助的感觉，认为情况糟糕到无法应对。

It's a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad that it's impossible to deal with.

当我们谈论育儿时，从这个角度开始并不坏，因为圣经在箴言4:7中告诉我们，智慧是最重要的事。

And that's not a bad place to start when we talk about parenting because the Scripture tells us in Proverbs four:seven that wisdom is the principal thing.

我们为什么需要智慧？

Why do we need wisdom?

因为每个父母都感到绝望。

Because every parent is desperate.

是的。

Yes.

当父母很难。

Being a parent is hard.

你知道，如果你是个电工，你只有一份工作。

You know, if you're an electrician, you have one job.

如果你是个摄影师，你只有一份工作。

If you're a photographer, you have one job.

如果你是个收银员，你只有一份工作。

If you're a cashier, you have one job.

你去接受培训，然后就开始工作。

You go, you get trained, and you get going.

但你可以在一天结束时放下它。

But you can drop it at the end of the day.

你打卡下班，完成工作，然后回家。

You clock out, you do your job and you go home.

如果你是父母的话

If you're a parent

看吧，我早就跟你说过，这会让人失去生机。

See, I told you it just makes you unalive.

是的。

Yeah.

根本没法打卡下班。

There's there's no there's no clocking out.

当你在缺乏足够培训、足够预警、足够睡眠、足够金钱和足够经验的情况下把一个婴儿带回家时，你就要承担起四十多种工作。

And you take on more than 40 jobs when you bring a baby home without enough training, enough warning, enough sleep, enough money, enough expertise.

你瞬间就成了照顾者、老师、护士、司机、管家、规则执行者、生日派对策划人，而且还得是ins级别的，同时还是财务经理和厨师。

You instantly are a caregiver, a teacher, a nurse, a chauffeur, a housekeeper, a rule enforcer, a birthday party planner, and it better be Instagram worthy, a financial manager, and a chef.

还有更多呢。

And there are so many more.

是的。

Yes.

一旦你有了两个孩子，你就成了社会学家。

Once you have two kids, now you're a sociologist.

懂吗？

Know?

你试过喂幼儿吃饭吗？

Have you ever tried to feed a toddler?

你做过。

You've done it.

是的。

Yes.

当然。

Absolutely.

我们有没有意识到，根本没有可以直接带孩子去的餐厅？

Do we understand there are no restaurants you can just take your child to?

根本没有，因为有一天他们只想吃通心粉和奶酪。

There aren't any because one day all they want is mac and cheese.

嗯。

Mhmm.

第二天他们又讨厌吃了。

The next day they hate it.

你为什么要给他们吃这个？

Why are you serving this to them?

然后有一半的孩子只吃冰淇淋。

Then half of those kids will only eat ice cream.

是的。

Yep.

你知道，另一半都进了狗的碗里。

You know, the other half is in the dog's bowl.

嗯。

Yep.

而且只想吃他正在吃的东西。

And wants what he's eating.

你知道，这家可怜的餐厅会在一周内倒闭，因为没人能让一个两岁的孩子从一天到下一天吃你准备的食物。

You know, and this poor restaurant would go out of business in one week because nobody can get a two year old to eat what you've prepared from one day to the next.

你换了很多新工作，这对你来说怎么样呢？嗯，

How is it been with you with all these different new jobs that you got when you brought yourself Well,

我想到的第一个词是‘冒险’。

you know, the word adventure comes to mind.

但你知道，昨天在伊德格伍德教会的礼拜中，我一直在静思这个问题。

But you know, I was actually really meditating on this yesterday, during our church service at the Edgewood Church.

詹姆斯·布赖森牧师正在跟我们谈论，我们是否真的在内心完全交托，是在领受恩典，还是因骄傲、缺乏信任，或根本对神想与我们更深同行的意愿而拒绝了恩典。

Pastor James Bryson was just talking to us about whether or not we've truly surrendered everything in our heart and are we receiving grace or are we rejecting it because of our pride, because of our lack of trust, because of our lack of interest really in God wanting to go deeper with us.

这让我深刻思考神放在我心里的这个想法：我们有想法，但神赋予定义。

And it really made me think about this thought that God put on my heart, which was we have an idea, but God brings the definition.

真美。

Beautiful.

我开始静思这一点，因为我对成为父母的理解完全基于我所看到的，基于电影中呈现的画面，哦，是的。

And I just started meditating on that because I had such an idea of what becoming a parent was going to be like based on what I've seen, based on things that are projected on different movies Oh, yeah.

电视剧。

Television shows.

甚至从我认识的一些女性身上，包括我自己的母亲，你会想：好吧，我对这件事已经足够了解了，我觉得自己懂一些东西，我对这个感兴趣，我希望有一天也能拥有这样的角色。

Even from some of the women that I knew including my own mother, you can think, okay, I have a good enough handle on this that I do think that I know some things, I'm interested in this, I would like to have this position one day.

我们对即将面对的事情有一个设想。

We have an idea of what we're getting into.

但当我们真正有了孩子，才会意识到：哦，这和我想象的完全不同。

But then when we actually have the child, we are realizing, Oh, this is actually quite different from what I imagined.

或者我以为它会是这样，但没意识到，在养育和教导孩子的过程中，我还要一层一层地揭开更多未知的层面。

Or maybe I thought it was like this, but I didn't realize there's a whole other layer that's I'm gonna be peeling back as I'm raising this child and teaching this child.

然后我们必须记住，我其实并不像上帝那样了解这个孩子。

And then we have to remember, I actually don't know this child as well as God.

我可能和他们一起熬了很多个夜晚。

I may have stuck up a lot of nights with them.

我可能熬夜了。

I may have stayed up.

我可能坚持了下来。

I may have stuck it through.

我可能经历过喂养他们的艰难时刻。

I may have had the hard moments of feeding them.

我可能还和他们有过一些美好的时刻，比如教他们说第一个词、教他们走路。

I may have even had these beautiful moments with them, you know, teaching them their first word, teaching them to walk.

我们可能会犯一个错误，以为因为自己陪伴了这么久，现在就占据了上帝的位置，以为自己真正了解这个孩子。

We can make the mistake of thinking that because we've been there for so much that now we hold the God seat as well and we know this child.

你并不理解。

You don't understand.

我陪了这个孩子无数个夜晚，看着他们哭泣，安慰他们，但随着他们的成长，我们依然保有这些想法。

I've been with this child so many nights and I've watched them cry, I've comforted them, but we still have these ideas as they grow.

这些观念不断被打破，因为上帝亲自定义了这一切，感谢上帝，米歇尔，因为每个孩子的计划都是如此具体、独特，并且与你的成长息息相关。

These ideas keep being shattered as God brings the definition and thank God He does, Michelle, because every individual child's plan is so specific and so unique and it has to do with your growth as well.

为人父母实际上不仅关注孩子，更关注你自己。

Becoming a parent is actually not just focused on the child, it's focused on you.

养育孩子会激发你内心许多原本就存在的东西，它们并非一夜之间才出现，而是早已潜藏其中。

There are a lot of things that having a child brings out of you and they didn't just grow there overnight, they were already there.

我们中的一些人以为自己已经能掌控这些特质，但孩子却会不断戳破我们不愿面对的那些问题，而上帝说：现在你将真正学会忍耐。

And some of it we feel like we've been able to tame, but a child pokes at all those things we like to sweep under the rug and God says, now you will really learn about patience.

现在你将真正学会宽恕。

Now you will really learn about forgiveness.

现在你将真正学会绝望，因为我创造了为人父母这一使命，而你要在灵性上成功地完成它，就必须依靠我。

Now you will really learn about desperation because I created parenthood and you need me to be spiritually successful in this.

这太完美了。

That's perfect.

那么，离开属神的智慧，我们是否还能在养育孩子方面取得任何真正的成功呢？

Well, is it possible to achieve any kind of success in raising our kids apart from godly wisdom?

我们所有人实际上都在凭自己的智慧行事。

Well, we all already are operating out of our own wisdom.

就像你所说的，我们生命中所受到的各种影响。

Like you said, the influences that have happened in our lives.

在士师记的时代，我们都试图做自己眼中看为正的事。

And just in the time of judges, we're all trying to do what's right in our own eyes.

这固然值得称赞。

And that's commendable.

但如今，社会、我们的习惯、所处的环境，以及青少年所面临的挑战，远比我在养育孩子时、甚至比我小时候所经历的要严峻得多。

But society, our habits, our circumstances, and teens are being faced with incredible challenges today in a way they weren't when I was raising my children and they weren't when I was a child myself.

我们可以体会到父母离异的痛苦、欺凌、身份困惑、学业压力、被忽视的感觉、自杀念头、数字干扰以及校园暴力。

But we can identify with the pain of parental divorce, bullying, identity confusion, academic pressure, feeling invisible, thoughts of suicide, digital distraction, school violence.

我小时候根本没有什么校园暴力。

You know, there wasn't any school violence when I was a child.

除非你特别淘气，被修女用尺子打手心，否则根本听不到这种事。

It was unheard of unless you got your knuckles wrapped by the nun with the ruler because you were very naughty.

那是唯一的一种暴力，你也不会去告诉父母，因为那样情况会更糟。

That was the only violence and you did not go tell your parents because it wouldn't be even worse.

但事情已经发生了巨大的变化，而且

But And things have changed so much and

我们可能会陷入缺乏智慧的育儿方式。

we can fall into trying to parent without wisdom.

有时候我们只是在勉强支撑。

Sometimes we're just running on fumes.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

你所养育孩子的年龄段，从二十多岁到四十多岁，是成年人最困惑的时期。

The ages that you're parenting, you know, maybe from your twenties to your forties are the most confusing ages as an adult.

你正在努力决定去哪个教会、买哪栋房子、保留哪份工作，我们换工作、换房子。

You're trying to determine what church to go to, what house to buy, you know, what job to keep, you know, we change jobs, we change houses.

是的。

Yes.

实际上，我们大部分的育儿方式都是对自身童年经历的反应。

And actually, most of our parenting is a reaction to our own childhood.

是的。

Yes.

我非常同意这一点，你知道，育儿有不同的阶段，我们却以为只有一种固定的心态。

I definitely agree with that, you know, like there's just so many different seasons of parenting and we think it's just this one set mindset.

事实并非如此。

It's just not like that.

我们必须保持开放的心态。

We have to remain open, know.

我们需要不断邀请上帝进入我们的心，让上帝的思想不断融入我们的思想，因为就像我们会改变一样，我们的孩子也在变化。

We need to keep inviting God into our heart, keep adding God's thoughts to our thoughts because just like we change, our children change.

其实我刚才就在想这件事。

And you know, I was actually thinking about that.

我正在读一本叫《野生而自由的妈妈》的书，书中提到，当你看到孩子出现一些不同的变化时，不要立刻想：‘糟了，他们正在被社会的某种影响所左右’，或者‘我不确定我是否喜欢他们正在培养的这种兴趣。'

I was reading a book called The Wild and Free Mom and she was saying, when you see some different changes in your children, don't think, oh no, they're crossing over into this different portion of society's influence or maybe I'm not sure if I like this interest that they're harboring.

真正发生的是，他们正在成长为本来就是他们的样子，而你只是在旁观察。

What's really going on before you is that they're growing into who they already are and you're watching.

所以他们在发现自我，这对你们双方来说都感觉是新的、不同的，但其实每一天都是在逐步揭示上帝早已植入他们心中的本质。

So they are there discovering it and it feels new, it feels different to both of you, but really every day is more and more of an uncovering of who God has implanted in their heart.

当我们作为父母经历变化而感到不确定时，米歇尔，我们可以安心，即使我们没有答案，这也是可以的。

And we can rest assured, Michelle, when we are uncertain, as we're going through changes as their mom and dad, it's okay if we don't have the answer.

上帝在祂的话语中明确说：我的恩典够你用，因为我的能力是在人的软弱上显得完全。

God actually says in His Word, my grace is sufficient in your weakness.

因此，在很多时刻，我们觉得我应该知道该怎么做。

So a lot of moments where we feel that I'm supposed to know what to do.

我是妈妈。

I'm mom.

每个人都看着我，仿佛我必须给出定义，但上帝在提醒我们：不，你其实要转向我。

Everybody is looking at me as though I have to bring the definition, you know, and God is reminding us, no, you actually go to me.

你其实要转向我的话语。

You actually go to my word.

正如《诗篇》32章8节中上帝所说：‘我要教导你，指示你当行的路，我要定睛在你身上劝诫你。’

Just like in Psalm thirty two eight when God says, I will instruct you, says the Lord, and I will walk and guide along the best pathway for your life.

我会给你建议，关注你的进展。

I will advise you and watch your progress.

这是出自《生活圣经》。

That's from the Living Bible.

我非常喜欢这一点。

And I love that.

你知道，我们需要这个。

You know, we need that.

我们需要明白，不知道答案是没有关系的。

We need to know it's okay that we don't have the answer.

而那位拥有答案的，渴望在这整个旅程中与我们保持连接。

And the one who does have the answer wants to remain connected to us through this entire journey.

真美。

Beautiful.

我们很多年前有了第四个儿子。

We had our fourth boy, a lot of years ago.

我不会说具体是多少年前。

I'm not gonna say how many.

在生这个儿子之后，我花了八个月才喘过气来。

And, it took me eight months to even catch my breath with this boy.

你可能会以为我已经信主多年了。

And you would think I'd been saved for years.

我和我丈夫都很安稳。

My husband and I were secure.

我们的婚姻很好。

In our marriage was good.

他的工作也很稳定。

His job was good.

其他孩子都过得很好。

The other kids were all doing great.

但我有一个视觉型学习者、一个听觉型学习者，还有一个动觉型学习者。

But I had visual learners, an audio learner, and then a kinesthetic.

我不理解他。

And I did not understand him.

我不知道该怎么教他。

I did not know how to teach him.

我反复说了很多遍的事情，他就是无法理解。

Things that I would say over and over and over, he did not comprehend.

这让我们陷入困境，但也让我们转向了主。

And it was it it threw us through a loop, but it drove us to the Lord.

是的。

Yes.

你知道，我们得想想自己的童年。

You know, and we have to think about our childhood.

也许我们为孩子做的某些事情，他们其实并不需要。

And maybe some of the things we do to give our children, they don't need.

我妈妈在大萧条时期长大，物质生活非常匮乏。

My mom grew up during the Great Depression and had very little in the way of material comfort.

她常说起她爸爸连五分钱都不给她去看电影。

She used to talk about her dad wouldn't give her a nickel to go to the movies.

要是真只要五分钱就好了。

If only it cost a nickel.

我知道。

I know.

我的妈妈决心要给我和我妹妹她从未拥有过的一切。

My And it was her mission to give me and my sister everything she never had.

她很成功。

She was successful.

她工作非常努力，但我们和她之间没有任何情感上的亲近。

She worked so hard, but we didn't have any emotional closeness with her.

好吧。

Okay.

因为她总是在工作，为我们买东西。

Because she was always working to buy us things.

当然，当你不断收到这些物质礼物时，你肯定会很开心。

And of course, when you're on the receiving end of all these material things, you're loving it.

你知道吗，谁会说不，妈妈，别给我买那台新相机了呢？

You know, who wants to say no, stop mom, don't buy me that new camera.

当然。

Sure.

你知道吗？

You know?

但作为对这种状况的回应，我成了全职妈妈。

But I became a stay at home mom in reaction to that.

我曾经做过一段时间的单亲妈妈，后来嫁给了贝努瓦先生，于是就留在了家里。

You know, I was a single mom working for a while and then married mister Benoit and I got to stay home.

但当全职妈妈意味着我们没有钱去度假或买昂贵的礼物。

But being a stay at home mom means I didn't have the money for we didn't have the money for vacations or expensive gifts.

是的。

Yes.

所以某种程度上，我们剥夺了孩子们的这种体验。

So in a way, we deprived our kids of that.

嗯，说剥夺，我觉得是用其他美好的东西来替代。

Well, know, say deprivation, I say replacement with other great things.

你知道，怎么

You know, how

我们如何打破这种反应性的循环？

do we break this reactionary cycle?

当然。

Sure.

你可以看看以色列所有的国王，一个好国王，一个坏国王，一个好国王，一个坏国王。

You can look at all the kings of Israel, and there's a good one, a bad one, a good one, a bad one.

每个人都在做出反应。

Everyone's in reaction.

但我们走向智慧。

But we go to wisdom.

我们转向神，你知道的。

We go to God, you know.

它是所有其他美德的基础。

It's the building block for all the other virtues.

是的。

Yeah.

我非常赞同你所说的，有时候我们甚至不知道，我们的恐惧可能在很大程度上影响了我们的育儿方式。

I really like what you're saying about how, you know, we don't even know sometimes that we could be very, very influenced in our parenting by our fears.

当然。

Sure.

我们可能深受不愿让某些历史重演这一心态的影响。

We can be very influenced by not wanting certain histories to repeat itself.

上帝不希望我们以任何其他方式为人父母，而应建立在对祂稳固的信靠之上，这种信靠我们仍在持续培养。

And God doesn't want us parenting from any place other than a grown security in Him that we are continuing to foster.

我们确实如此。

And we do.

我们确实需要留意这些反应，确保自己没有进行任何替代性行为。

We do have to watch these responses and make sure that we're not doing anything vicarious.

这很困难。

And it's difficult.

这非常困难，因为有时这些反应源自你内心深处，而你甚至可能从未将它们摆在上帝面前，直到你意识到自己的反应如此强烈、如此激烈，甚至到了必须为孩子提供这一切的绝望地步。

It's very difficult because sometimes that's a chamber of yourself that maybe you haven't even, you know, set at the feet of God and then you realize my responses are so strong, my responses are so intense or, it becomes desperate for me to provide this for my child.

这些事情与其他各种因素都有联系。

And those things have a link to different things.

有时我们需要退后一步，问自己：为什么当我看到兄弟姐妹之间发生这种争执时，我会被如此深深地触动？

Sometimes we do need to stand back and say, why is it something that triggers me so deeply when I see this type of argument taking place between siblings?

或者，当我跟其中一个孩子交谈时，我感到自己让他们失望了，因为我没有在某件事上给予他们足够的关注，或者我本想更关注他们，却没有做到。

Or maybe if I'm talking to one of my kids and I feel like I've let them down because I haven't been available for something or I wanted to be more available for something, but I wasn't.

现在，我把这与疏忽联系在了一起。

Now I'm associating that with negligence.

你知道，所有这些事情都植根于一些早已埋下的种子，那就是我们携带的记忆，它们直接影响着你的育儿方式，可能带来积极或消极的影响。

You know, all of these things have these planted, these pre planted seeds that are memories that we carry and that directly affects your parenting and it can be in good and bad ways.

你知道，在很多情况下，我们从父母身上学到了很多美好的东西，我们会说，我想让我的孩子也有这样的感受。

You know, we learn wonderful things from our parents in many cases and we say, you know what, I want my child to feel like this.

但我们也学到了一些不希望带入为人父母中的东西，这并不意味着我们的父母很糟糕。

But we also learn some things that we maybe don't want to carry into our parenthood and that doesn't mean that we had terrible parents.

不。

No.

这仅仅意味着，他们在为人父母时所展现的人性，我们看在眼里。

That just means that the humanity inside of their parenting was something that we saw.

在某些方面，我们会想，我需要小心这一点，还是这只是我妈妈的特质？

And in some ways, we said, oh, I I need to be careful of this, or is this just a a quality about my mom?

这是当妈妈的特质吗？

Is this a quality about being a mom?

我们需要寻求上帝作为我们的过滤器，确保我们在年轻时以及成为父母后所吸收的一切，都经过圣灵的过滤。

We need to go to God to be our filter to make sure that everything we're taking in when we're younger and when we become a parent is going through the filter of the Holy Spirit.

我们需要他。

And we we need him.

我们迫切需要他，因为我们甚至不知道自己何时在欺骗自己。

We need him desperately because we don't even know when we're deceiving ourselves.

嗯，如果你是一名舞台表演者，然后——

Well, you know, if you're a stage performer and then

我曾经就是那样的。

I've been that.

是的，我知道。

Yes, know.

我知道。

I know.

但当你有了孩子，开始忙于育儿时，你却在其中一个孩子身上看到了同样的倾向。

But then you take a back seat because you have children and you're doing things, but then you see in one of your children, they have the same proclivity.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你想推动。

You want to push.

但这并不总是上帝的旨意。

And it's not always what God wants.

你知道，你可以识别，可以评论，可以让他们上课，可以给他们机会。

You know, you could recognize, you can comment, you can take them for lessons, you can give them opportunities.

但上帝的智慧不仅仅是了解你的孩子。

But God's wisdom is more than just having information about your child.

但它非常实际。

But it is very practical.

它通常是通过错误学会的巧妙运用。

It's the skillful application often learned through mistakes.

是的。

Yes.

我和我丈夫坐下来谈论那些让我们更亲近上帝的错误。

And my husband and I sit and talk about the mistakes that we made that pushed us closer to God.

在我们婚姻初期，通过犯错，我们决定要祷告。

And early in our marriage through making mistakes, we decided we're gonna pray.

我们不会根据专家的建议来做决定。

We're not gonna make decisions based on the advice of experts.

专家建议我在经历五次流产后结扎，不要再生育了。

The advice of experts said that I needed to have my tubes tied and not have any more children after five miscarriages.

但上帝说不。

But God said no.

如果我听从了那些建议，我们就不会有我们的杰森。

And if I had followed that advice, we would not have our Jason.

是的，一次次流产确实很艰难，但上帝知道杰森就在前方。

And yes, it was difficult having miscarriage after miscarriage, but God knew that Jason was on the horizon.

是的。

Yes.

所以，是的，我们会听专家的意见。

So yes, we listen to experts.

读书。

Read books.

我们听取他们的意见。

We listen to their opinions.

我们会权衡这些意见。

We weigh them.

你知道，我们也不会根据自己的喜好做决定，因为那是条捷径。

You know, we also don't make decisions based on our preferences because that's the easy road.

没错。

Yep.

就是我们已经熟悉的路。

The road we already know.

是的。

Yes.

你知道，我们不会根据孩子的一时兴起或愿望来做决定。

You know, we don't make decisions based on the whims and wishes of our children.

是的。

Yes.

你不能让你的婚姻变得以孩子为中心。

You cannot let your marriage become child centered.

必须由你和你的丈夫施加压力，并将爱传递到这个充满焦虑的环境中。

It's got to be you and your husband exerting pressure and downloading love onto this matting hoard.

是的。

Yes.

但这真的非常困难。

But It's very it's very difficult.

我的意思是，说起来容易做起来难。

I mean, easier said than done.

当然。

Sure.

但我完全同意你的观点。

But I definitely completely agree with you.

我已经和孩子们谈过，坐下来和他们好好说，但必须一遍又一遍地重复。

And I've already had talks with my children and sat them down and I have to say it again and again.

如果我和爸爸状态不好，也没有互相沟通，我们就无法以你们需要的方式关注你们。

If daddy and I are not okay and daddy and I are not checking in, we cannot focus on you in the ways that we need to.

爸爸是我最好的朋友，这意味着有时候你们需要等待。

Daddy is my best friend and that means sometimes you need to wait.

有时候我得稍后再和你谈，因为爸爸对我来说是如此特别和重要，当某人特别重要时，你必须确保关注他们。

Sometimes I need to talk to you later because daddy is somebody that is so special and important to me and when someone special and important, you make sure you pay attention to them.

今天你已经得到了我很多关注，对吧？

Now, you've gotten my attention a lot today, right?

但爸爸只在这里待了一个小时，你猜怎么着？

But daddy has only been here for an hour and guess what?

我还在努力和他进行一次完整的对话。

I'm still trying to have one conversation with him.

所以，尽管我非常爱你，你也知道这一点，但这对我来说并不是一场要证明你被爱的战斗，尽管这种想法可能会进入你的脑海。

So as much as I love you and you know that I do, this is not a battle for me to prove that you're loved even though that's a projection that can enter your mind.

是的。

Yes.

这关乎你理解事情发生的正确顺序，因为我也在为你树立榜样，当你将来成为母亲或父亲时。

This is about you understand the proper order of what needs to happen because I'm setting an example for you as well for when you become a mom and when you become a dad.

尽管这些观念对许多孩子来说可能显得过于超前，但它们确实为‘哦，原来如此’这样的认知打下了基础。

And even though those things can be very forward in a lot of thinking for children, it does create a foundation for, oh, okay.

所以，我必须确保，即使妈妈是我非常想继续交谈的人，这样做也没有错。

So I have to make sure that even though mommy is somebody I really wanna keep talking to, it's not wrong.

这并不糟糕。

It's not bad.

当她说现在需要一些空间，或者我的注意力必须转移时，她并没有忘记我。

She's not forgetting me when she does say there needs to be some space right now or my attention needs to turn away right now.

但你必须对身边的人、他们的年龄以及你的家庭文化保持敏感。

But you have to be sensitive to who you have, how old they are, what your family culture is.

有太多动态因素，只有上帝才完全知晓。

There are so many dynamics that only God knows.

我正在思考这个问题，米歇尔，因为你提到，很多时候如果我们所依赖的资源能引导我们回归上帝和祂的旨意，它们就能真正帮助我们。

And I was thinking about this, Michelle, because you referenced how a lot of times we can have resources that can really help us if they are pointing us back to God and back to His will.

这本书，我之前在节目中介绍过。

And this book, this is one that I've brought on the show before.

它叫《圣经从宝座上说话》。

It's The Bible Speaks from the Throne.

这是由我们敬爱的创始牧师卡尔·史蒂文斯牧师撰写的每日灵修读物。

It's a daily devotional by our dear founding pastor, pastor Carl Stevens.

他强调的其中一个观点让我对育儿有了更深的思考。

And one of his points that he emphasizes really made me think about this in regards to parenting.

他谈到，作为信主的父母，你的思想需要不断且规律地通过聆听、领受并实践上帝的话语来更新。

He talks about how your mind as a believing parent needs to be constantly and regularly renewed by hearing the Word, receiving the Word in your heart and applying the word of God towards your life.

如果我们不这样做，就有可能在缺乏智慧的状态下养育孩子。

And we're in danger of parenting our children from a place that lacks wisdom when we don't do that.

在书中，他说：‘每一天都必须重新达到基督的标准。'

And in the book, he says, The standard of Christ must be met anew each day.

当然，学习和成长的基础很有价值，但如果缺乏基督在自发性中的新鲜感，再多的学习也只不过是微不足道的尘土。

Certainly, a foundation of learning and growth is valuable, but mountains of learning don't amount to molehills if the freshness of Christ in spontaneity is absent.

真美。

Beautiful.

我喜欢这一点，因为今天发生的事情是具体的。

I love that because what's happening today is specific.

所以我们需要一句具体的话。

So we need a specific word.

仅仅昨天从神那里领受了一些东西是不够的。

It's not enough that yesterday we received something from God.

那个孩子今天的情绪可能完全不同。

That child could have been in a different mood.

他们内心可能正经历着不同的挣扎。

They could have been battling something different in their heart.

所以今天需要属于今天的智慧。

So today needs its own wisdom.

真美。

Beautiful.

感谢神，当我们寻求时，祂仍在不断倾倒。

Thank God he continues to pour out as we seek it.

你知道，关键是与你的丈夫、妻子或配偶坐下来，共同确立你们的信念。

You know, it's a matter of sitting with your husband, your wife, your spouse, and and forging your convictions.

哪些信念将定义你的家庭？

What are the convictions that are gonna define your family?

对我们来说，我们对十一奉献有一个坚定的信念。

And for us, we had a conviction on tithing.

在三十九年零九个月的婚姻中，我们从未错过一周的十一奉献。

I can say in in thirty nine years and nine months of marriage, we have never missed a week's tithe.

哇。

Wow.

从未错过。

Never.

我们曾经有几次不得不写下支票并把它们搁置一旁。

We had a few times we had to write those checks and put them aside.

有一次，我们必须等到拿到退税款后，才把所有支票交出去。

And once we had to wait until we got our tax refund before we handed in all the checks.

但如果上帝认真对待十一奉献，我们就坚持奉献。

But if God is serious about tithing, we tithed.

因此，我们的生日相比世界标准来说非常简朴。

So birthdays were very modest compared to the world standards.

我们对参加教会聚会有坚定的信念。

We had a conviction about attending church.

所以我们的孩子从不允许在主日早晨参加体育活动，也不允许在周三晚上上任何课程。

So our kids were never allowed to play sports during a Sunday morning service or take any kind of lessons on Wednesday night.

只要一听说周三有训练，我们就立刻退出。

The minute we heard there's practice on Wednesday, okay, we're out.

我们向孩子们解释了这一点。

And it was explained to our kids.