像科学家一样约会

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

作为人类，我们天生渴望知识。无论你是医疗从业者还是健康爱好者，都渴望聆听智者探讨医学。我是马修·弗兰克·瓦多医生，在《路边社内科医学播客》中，我与全美家庭医生代表保罗·尼尔森·威廉姆斯医生共同采访专家，探讨肥胖、高血压、高胆固醇、糖尿病等常见话题，为您带来临床经验、革新性医学知识和冷幽默段子。聪明的听众们，快来订阅《路边社内科医学播客》，在各大播客平台提升自我。

You're a person, and people like to know stuff. Maybe you're a health care provider or just health curious, and you wanna hear smart people talking about medicine. I'm doctor Matthew Frank Wado, and on the Curbsiders internal medicine podcast with my cohost, America's PCP, doctor Paul Nelson Williams, we interview experts on common topics like obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes to bring you clinical pearls, practice changing knowledge, and bad puns. You're a smart person, so get smarter and subscribe to the Curbsiders internal medicine podcast wherever you get podcasts.

这里是Pushkin。嗨，我是劳里·桑托斯医生。在《幸福实验室》里，我们经常讨论成为粉丝的种种益处。

Pushkin. Hey. Doctor. Laurie Santos here. Here at the happiness lab, we spend a lot of time talking about the benefits of being a fan.

恰巧Pushkin旗下另一档播客《打破规则》深度探讨了这个话题。该节目由畅销书作家迈克尔·刘易斯主持，他正是《点球成金》《大空头》和《说谎者的扑克牌》的原作者。本季节目不仅聚焦体育迷文化，还探讨了几年前才在美国合法化的体育博彩——从幸福学视角来看，这绝对是个迷人课题。

And it just so happens that another Pushkin podcast has gone deep into this topic. It's a show called Against the Rules, hosted by best selling author Michael Lewis. Michael Lewis is the brains behind books like Moneyball, The Big Short, and Liar's Poker. This season of Against the Rules is all about sports fandom, but also sports gambling, which was legalized in The US just a few years ago. From a happiness perspective, this is a fascinating topic.

迈克尔不仅采访了赌博成瘾者，还对话了NBA球星、拉斯维加斯庄家甚至赌场设计师。我也受邀参与了节目，那场对谈令我受益匪浅。若您感兴趣，强烈推荐订阅《打破规则》，各大播客平台均可收听。欢迎来到二月。

Michael talks with gambling addicts, but also pro basketball stars, Vegas bookies, and even experts in casino design. I also get to make an appearance. I really enjoyed our conversation. So if you're a little bit curious, I urge you to check out Against the Rules and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to February.

这是个寒风凛冽却温情脉脉的月份——多亏了情人节。此时空气中都弥漫着爱的气息，因此我们在最新《生活指南》系列中，用两期节目探讨恋爱关系的科学。首期从约会开始：很多人觉得自己总在错误追求——要么选错对象，要么用错方式追求对的人。

It's a month of cold weather but warm hearts. Thanks to Valentine's Day. Love is in the air this time of year, so we're devoting two shows of our new how to season to the science of relationships, and we're kicking things off with dating. Many of us feel like we're getting dating all wrong. We chase the wrong people entirely, or we chase the right people in the wrong way.

但如果用科学方法寻找理想伴侣呢？这就是今天要探讨的——如何像科学家般约会。我们特邀完美专家助阵：洛根·乌里，约会软件Hinge的关系科学总监，Netflix新剧《迟到的约会》的恋爱指导，更是畅销书《如何避免孤独终老》的作者。现在，让我们穿上关系研究的白大褂吧。

But what if we used science to find the ideal partner? That's what we'll be exploring today, how to date like a scientist. And we have the perfect expert to help us don those relationship lab coats. Logan Urie is the director of relationship science at the dating app Hinge. She's also the dating coach for the new Netflix show, The Later Daters, and the author of an awesome book, How to Not Die Alone.

看到这样的履历，你可能会以为洛根从高中起就是个恋爱高手，但事实并非如此。

With a CV like that, you might think Logan's been a dating whiz since high school, but you'd be wrong.

我并非一直擅长为自己寻找爱情，但正是多年来在感情上的不如意让我更擅长现在的工作。因为那些高中就遇到一生挚爱，或天生美貌终生被追捧的人，很难理解大多数人的真实经历——寻找伴侣是极具挑战性的过程，充满拒绝与挫折。尽管如今我已与伴侣幸福婚姻多年，我仍感激那些经历让我能真正共情普通约会者的困境。

I haven't always been great at finding love for myself, but I think the fact that I was unlucky in love for many years actually makes me better at what I do. Because I think for people who met the love of their life in high school or were just so beautiful that people were falling all over them their whole lives, I think it's harder to relate to the experience that most people go through, which is that finding a partner is really challenging. There's a lot of rejection involved. It's just a difficult thing that many of us go through. And I feel like even though now I've been happily married and with my partner for a long time, I'm really glad that I had those experiences so that I can relate to the average daters experience.

能否分享些早期恋爱挫折的经历？让听众了解你也曾在这方面遇到困难。

Any dating woes that you'd be willing to share for the show to give a sense of the fact that you were challenged at dating early on?

我立刻想到书里提到的'火人节布莱恩'（当然不是真名），这故事暴露了我的焦虑型依恋模式。当时我的恋爱逻辑是：如果被拒绝，不是说明不合适，而是对方比我优秀，我该努力说服他们接受我。在火人节与这人有过短暂浪漫后，回到旧金山我就理所当然认为我们会正式交往。

The thing that comes to mind for me is this story that in my book I refer to as burning man Brian, definitely not his real name, not Brian. It really has to do with my anxious attachment. And so I had a trend when I was dating where if somebody rejected me, instead of saying, oh, we're not a fit or that person's not interested in me, I say, oh, well, if they rejected me, they must be better than me, and I should try to convince them to be with me. So when I met this person at Burning Man and we had this pretty epic love affair and then I came back and I was like, okay. Well, now we're both back in San Francisco.

但他完全没这个意思。我不仅没意识到他缺乏兴趣，更忽略了现实生活中的不匹配，反而执着于说服他。他越是回避退缩（回避型依恋），我越是穷追不舍，把这当成真爱的定义。记得当时在朋友沙发上痛哭：'为什么他不愿和我在一起？为什么拒绝我？'

Of course, we're just gonna start dating because we had so much fun at Burning Man, and he was not interested in that at all. And so instead of just understanding that not only was he not interested, but also not really a good fit for real life, I set out on this goal to convince him to be with me. And so the more he pulled away with his avoidant attachment style, the more I pursued him, and that was really my definition of love. And I just remember sitting on my friend's couch crying, why won't he be with me? Why is he rejecting me?

'难道我不够好吗？'我试图套用人生其他领域的成功经验——比如争取理想工作或公寓——但爱情完全不同。不是努力就能换来'好吧那就在一起'的结局。幸运的是，一年后我遇见了现任丈夫斯科特（巧的是他大学时在你们实验室工作过）。

Why am I not good enough? And really trying to apply all these lessons from other aspects of my life, like getting my dream job or getting the apartment I wanted. And you just can't do that with love. It's not the kind of thing where more effort always tells someone, okay, well, then I should be with you. And so I was lucky enough to, about a year later, find my now husband, Scott, who coincidentally worked in your lab when he was in college.

这段经历让我明白安全型伴侣的特质，也意识到'火人节布莱恩'身上诸多危险信号。但当时的我只想着：'怎样才能让他选择我？'

But, yes, really learning the lessons of what a secure partner looks like and understanding that a lot of the traits that this Burning Man Brian guy had were red flags. But instead, I was just like, how can I convince him to be with me?

你总是这样一个绝佳的例子，因为我认为当我们看到那些人际关系专家或提供大量恋爱建议的人时，可能会以为他们天生就具备那种直觉。但你曾指出事实并非如此，这些都是我们可以学习的技能。

It's always you're this wonderful example because I think when we see people who are experts on relationship or giving lots of relationship advice, you might assume that they were kind of born with those instincts. But but you've argued that that's really not the case, that this is something we can learn.

完全正确。我工作的核心观点就是：我们天生懂得如何去爱，却不懂如何约会，而约会确实充满挑战。但好消息是，这是一项可以习得的技能。我们所知的约会方式——在交友软件出现前——其实诞生于1890年代左右，那时女性开始外出工作并自主结识伴侣。

Absolutely. That's a big part of my work is this idea that we're born knowing how to love but not how to date and that dating is really challenging. But the good news is it's a skill and you can learn it. And so dating as we know it, pre apps, really was invented around eighteen nineties. So this was really when women started working outside of the house and meeting people on their own.

在此之前，婚姻通常通过媒人促成，或是像'我父亲和你父亲决定让我们做邻居，合并土地'，或是'我父亲用12头骆驼换你嫁给我'这类安排。如今在交友软件盛行和个人主义文化中，择偶的重担完全落在个人肩上。所以当有人说'真希望我是包办婚姻，感觉母亲比我更会挑选伴侣'时，我觉得这种想法一点也不荒谬。

So before that, marriages really came about through a matchmaker or through, you know, my dad and your dad decided that we live next door to each other and we should combine our parcels of land or my dad gave your dad 12 camels for your hand in marriage and things like that. And so nowadays, in the days of dating apps and really the individualistic culture that we're in, it's a huge burden on the person to figure out who they should be with. And so when people feel like, you know, Logan, this is probably weird to say, but I just wish I had an arranged marriage. I feel like my mom or someone else could decide better than me. I don't think that that's crazy at all.

事实上，由个人来做这个将极大影响我们健康、幸福和人生满意度的艰难抉择，本身就是值得深思的问题。对于所有在约会中挣扎的人，我理解你们。这确实很难，但它是可以提升的技能。而其中...

I think the fact that we as individuals need to make this really hard choice that's going to have a huge impact on our overall health, happiness, and life satisfaction is actually something that we should think about. And for anyone who's having a hard time with dating, I hear you. It is hard, but it's also a skill, and you can get better at it. And one of

你提出的一个让我深有共鸣的洞见——与本期节目主题完美契合——就是我们可以引入行为科学的智慧。请谈谈行为科学如何帮助我们更好地约会。

the insights that you brought, which I love so much, it really resonates with this show, is that one of the kinds of things we can bring in is all the insights from behavioral science. Talk about how behavioral science can help us date better.

我认为有两个领域的研究成果极为丰富：研究亲密关系的'爱情科学'，和研究决策机制的'行为科学'。我的工作就是整合这两个领域的最佳洞见，帮助人们在感情中做出更明智的决策。如果把建立关系拆解开来，它其实就是一系列决策：我准备好约会了吗？该选择谁？

I feel like there's just so much great work in two fields, the fields of relationship science, which is the study of how we love, and the field of behavioral science, the study of how we make decisions. And so through my work, I really like to combine the best insights from both of those fields and use them to help people make better decisions in love. And so if you actually break down getting into a relationship, it's a series of decisions. Am I ready to date? Who should I date?

我们该确定关系吗？该同居吗？该结婚吗？当你真正理解行为科学及决策障碍时，就能克服那些阻碍你找到爱情的认知盲区。而...

Should we become exclusive? Should we move in together? Should we get married? And if you really understand behavioral science and the things that get in our way around making decisions, then you can actually overcome some of the blind spots holding you back from finding love. And in

在你的书中，你非常精妙地论证了如果我们想在约会方面做得更好，就必须克服这些盲点。你提出的其中一个盲点是我们对‘关系购物’的冲动。什么是关系购物？我们该如何应对这一挑战？

your book, you've so nicely argued that we need to get over these blind spots if we really wanna do better when it comes to dating. And one of the blind spots that you've brought up is our kind of urge to relation shop. What is relation shopping, and and how can we kind of deal with this challenge?

研究者们讨论过‘配对’这个概念，即进入恋爱关系的过程。但过去十年左右，他们注意到了‘关系购物’现象——像挑选商品一样挑选伴侣。这种方式行不通的原因在于存在‘体验型商品’与‘搜索型商品’的区分。搜索型商品比如新相机或音箱，你可以明确参数：需要什么尺寸？预算多少？

So researchers talk about this idea of shipping, which is the process of getting into a romantic relationship. But in the last decade or so, they've noticed this concept of relation shopping, shopping for a partner as if you would shop for a good. And why that doesn't really work is because there's this really interesting concept talking about experiential goods versus searchable goods. So searchable goods are things like a new camera or getting a new speaker, something like that where you can say, what size do I want? What price am I willing to pay?

电池续航如何？多久能到货？这些都可以拆解成具体指标。而体验型商品如红酒或电影，你我的感受可能截然不同，重点不在商品本身，而在于它们唤起的情绪。

How good is the battery life? How quickly can it be here? And you can really break it down into its parts. Experiential goods are things like wine or movies where you and I might experience them completely differently, and it's not about what they are. It's about the feelings that they bring out in us.

因此在约会时，必须明白人属于体验型商品而非搜索型商品。当我的约会咨询客户说‘我知道自己要什么：一个苗条的五尺六寸犹太红发女郎’时，

And so it's really important when people are dating to understand that people are experiential goods. They're not searchable goods. And so when people come into my dating coaching practice and they say, okay. I know exactly what I want. I want a skinny five foot six Jewish redhead.

我会反驳：不，你不是在买耳机，而是在寻找人生伴侣。那些简历式的特质远不如相处体验重要，二维信息远不如对方能激发你的哪一面特质关键。

I'm like, no. You're not buying a pair of headphones. You're searching for a life partner. And so it's much less about those resume traits. It's much less about what you just see if you know someone two dimensionally and much more about the experience of being with them and what side of you they bring out.

我猜这种偏见在约会软件和社交媒体时代会更棘手。能否谈谈关系购物如何在这些平台上恶化，以及我们需要特别注意哪些挑战？

And I imagine that this kind of bias can get even more tripped up in the days of kind of dating apps and social media. You know, talk about how relation shopping can maybe get worse or how it's even more of a challenge that we need to pay attention to if we're on apps like this.

长久以来我观察到，社交媒体用户普遍陷入‘比较即绝望’的心态。我们都知道Instagram上人们只展示生活高光时刻：看我家孩子可爱的万圣节装扮（尽管她之前哭闹不休），或者我度假时海滩绝美的日落漫步。而此时你可能正面临分手。

So for a long time, I've noticed this idea of people on social media really having this feeling of compare and despair. So we all know that on Instagram, people post the highlight reels of their life. Look at my child in her adorable Halloween costume even though she was shrieking before and afterwards. Or look at this amazing sunset walk on the beach of my vacation. Meanwhile, you and your boyfriend are about to break up.

因此我认为对许多人来说，他们会有一种'我不够好'的感觉。除了我，其他人都找到了爱情，而Instagram加深了这种感受。但过去两年我在TikTok上也注意到一种现象，即所谓的'约会娱乐化'。人们去约会后，迫不及待地回家发帖说：女士们先生们，我经历了史上最糟糕的约会。你们绝对猜不到——

And so I think for many people, there's a feeling of I'm not good enough. Everyone else has found love except me, and Instagram gives them that feeling. But I've also seen something in the last two years crop up on TikTok, which is this idea of dateertainment. So people go on these dates, and they cannot wait to get home to say, ladies and gentlemen, I had the worst possible date. You'll never guess.

他迟到了二十分钟，身上有股怪味，点了一堆食物最后却要我买单。于是人们会产生'我想走红'的心态，而分享极端负面的故事正是最容易走红的方式之一。

He showed up twenty minutes late. He smelled like this. He ordered all this food, then I had to pay for it. And so there's a feeling of I wanna go viral. One of the easiest ways to go viral is to share a really negative story.

所以我经常要面对那些对约会极度消极的单身人士，因为他们消费的TikTok内容不断灌输'世上没有靠谱对象'、'约会糟透了'的观念。

And so what I'm often dealing with is singles who are so negative on dating because the content that they're consuming on TikTok is really telling them there's no one out there and dating sucks.

你完全能理解这为何会成为问题对吧？当你的预期就是'这次约会肯定会很糟糕'，这实际上会成为自我应验的预言。在实际约会中，这种情况会发生对吗？

And you could so see why this is a problem. Right? Because if your expectations are there, like, oh, this is gonna go terrible. I imagine this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when you actually go on a date. Right?

于是你彻底改变了'人性本恶'的先验认知。我们原本对万事万物就存在的消极偏见，在约会时可能会变得更加严重

So you kind of change all your priors about how bad people are. So you might the normal negativity bias we bring to everything might be getting even worse when you go

确实。我认为有几个因素在起作用：首先是消极偏见，其次还有很多人根本不再参与约会。

on dates. Yeah. I feel like a couple things could be happening. Definitely the negativity bias. Then there's also a lot of people who are just not dating at all.

最近几个月我甚至观察到一种新现象——'我已放弃约会'，这个说法在今年夏天之前几乎闻所未闻。过去人们会说'我正在攻读研究生学位'或'我要搬家了，等安顿下来再考虑约会'。但现在变成了非此即彼的二元选择：要么在约会，要么已放弃约会。我认为这种思维存在危害性，它让人把自己定义为'不约会的人'，而非'虽然现阶段不是优先事项，但仍对建立关系持开放态度'。

And so this is something that I've noticed even in the last few months is this idea of I've quit dating, and that's just not a term that I really heard before this summer. So it used to be like, oh, you know, I'm focusing on my graduate degree or I'm moving, so I'm gonna, like, be more into dating when I get there. But now it's this binary of I'm dating or I've quit dating. And I think that there's something harmful about that where people really are having an identity as someone who's not dating instead of I'm someone who's open to connections even though maybe it's not their priority right now.

你提到的另一个偏见是你所称的莫奈效应。什么是莫奈效应？

And so another bias that you've talked about is what you've referred to as the Monet effect. What's the Monet effect?

莫奈效应是我命名的，因为我非常喜欢电影《独领风骚》。在这部电影里

So the Monet effect something that I named because I love the movie Clueless. And in the movie Clueless

谁不是呢？

Who doesn't really?

是啊，那电影太棒了。在《独领风骚》中，有个受欢迎的女孩叫雪儿。新来的女孩泰问她，你觉得我们的同学安珀怎么样？

Yeah. Oh, it's amazing. In the movie Clueless, there's the popular girl named Cher. And Ty, who's the new girl, says, hey. What do you think about our classmate, Amber?

雪儿回答说，哦，她就像莫奈的画。远看还行，近看却一团糟。她当然指的是印象派画家莫奈。

And Cher says, oh, she's a full on Monet. It's like a painting. From far away, it's okay. But up close, it's a big old mess. And so she's, of course, referring to the impressionist painter Monet.

当大脑缺乏信息时，它会以积极的方式填补信息，期待好的结果。这实际上让人显得比实际更有吸引力。比如有人在Hinge上说喜欢音乐，你大脑就会想，他们喜欢的音乐肯定和我一样。如果人们长期在Hinge上聊天却不见面，问题会更严重。因为即使见面后发现对方很棒，也达不到你脑海中构建的幻想标准。

And what happens is that when our brains lack information, they fill in the information in a positive way, hoping for a great outcome. And so this actually makes people seem more desirable than they are. So if somebody on Hinge says, I love music, then in your brain, you fill in, oh, I bet they must love the same music as me. And this is especially a problem when people pen pal, talk to somebody on Hinge for so long without meeting up with them. Because even if when they meet up, that person is fantastic, they're not going to match the fantasy of them that they created in their head.

关键在于要明白，当你掌握的信息越少，你就会以过度乐观的方式填补空白。这会制造幻想，最终导致本可避免的失望——如果你能早点见面或通电话的话。

And so the point is to understand when you have less information, you fill in the gaps in an overly positive way, This creates a fantasy, and then it ultimately leads to disappointment that could have been avoided if you just met the person or talked to them on the phone sooner.

现在是短暂休息时间。但稍后回归时，洛根将帮助我们了解如何避开那些棘手的约会类型——浪漫幻想者、完美主义者，甚至是可怕的无法约会者。《幸福实验室》稍后继续。良好的沟通在生活和职场中都至关重要。我的朋友马特·亚伯拉罕的播客《快速思考，聪明说话》能帮你在这方面做得更好。

It's time for a quick break. But when we return, Logan will help us figure out how to avoid those problematic dating types, the romanticizer, the maximizer, or even the dreaded undateable. The Happiness Lab will be right back. Good communication is essential in life, both personally and professionally. And my friend, Matt Abraham's podcast, think fast, talk smart, can help you do better with that.

每周马特都会与包括我在内的专家对谈，分享基于研究的实用技巧，帮助你学会如何深入对话、成为更好的倾听者，以及如何在冲突中清晰表达。本月，《快速思考，聪明说话》推出与科技工具创作者的迷你系列，探讨如何运用这些工具提升职业沟通与生活质量。若你准备升级沟通技能，每周二可在任意播客平台收听，并访问fastersmarter.io获取更多提升资源。要像科学家般约会，首先得保持现实。正如著名的钟形曲线所示，爱情里多数情况也处于中间值——这意味着在数十亿人口中，适合你的灵魂伴侣远不止一个。

Each week, Matt sits down with experts, including me, to share practical research backed tips to help you learn things like how to connect deeply in conversation, how to be a better listener, and how to communicate clearly through conflict. And this month, think fast, talk smart features a mini series with tech tool creators on how to use their tools to improve your professional communication and your life. So if you're ready to level up your communication game, listen every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts and find additional content to level up your communication at fastersmarter.io. To date like a scientist, you gotta start by being realistic. As that famous bell curve might suggest, even in love, most things tend to be in the middle, and that means there probably isn't just one soulmate for you on a planet of billions of people.

同样，你也不太可能是世上最笨拙、最不可爱的人。约会专家洛根·乌瑞指出，仍有许多人陷入这些认知误区，以至于她在谈论时会略带成人用语。

Likewise, it's unlikely that you are the most awkward and unlovable person in existence. Dating expert Logan Urie says a lot of people still fall for these false ideas. So much so that she uses a wee bit of adult language when she talks about it.

我将人们分为三种约会倾向类型。感兴趣者可在我的网站参与测试问卷。它们的共同点是都抱有非理性期待。首先是浪漫幻想者，他们对关系有着不切实际的幻想。如果你听节目时会说'每个人都有命中注定的另一半'这类话——

So I've categorized people into the three dating tendencies. And if people are interested, they can take the quiz on my website. And what they all have in common is unrealistic expectations. So first one, the romanticizer, they have unrealistic expectations of relationships. So if you're listening and you're the kind of person who says things like, there's one person out there for everyone.

'我单身只是因为还没遇见真命天子'、'我渴望童话般的结局'——那么你很可能就是浪漫幻想者。这种观念源自流行文化的多重影响。

I'm single because I just haven't met my soul mate yet. I really want the happily ever after. Well, guess what? You might be a romantic izer. And the ideas behind romanticizers come from a lot of different places in pop culture.

迪士尼电影、浪漫喜剧、以及我们刚讨论过的社交媒体完美形象都在塑造这种认知。但浪漫幻想者的问题在于，他们未能理解几个关键点：其一，能让你长期幸福的对象，可能完全不符合你预设的外在条件。

They come from Disney movies. They come from rom coms. They come from what we just talked about social media and these perfect images that we project. But the issue is with the romanticizer that they don't understand a few things. One is that the person who might make you happiest long term may not come in the physical package that you're expecting.

若执着等待埃里克王子或白马王子般的伴侣，可能会错失许多优秀的潜在对象。心理学家芮妮·弗兰尼昂克的研究表明，人们要么持有'灵魂伴侣'思维，要么信奉'经营维系'理念。前者认为找到对的人就能解决所有问题，后者则相信关系成功需要持续投入努力。

And so if expecting, you know, your prince Eric or your prince charming, then you might miss out on a lot of great potential package partners. The other thing is that we know from psychologist Renee Frannyunk that people fit into either a soulmate mindset or a work it out mindset. The soulmate mindset is the idea that if you find the right person, everything will work out. That's where relationship satisfaction comes from. Instead, the work it out mindset is the belief that relationship success derives from putting in work.

所以对于那些浪漫主义者说，我不想用交友软件，因为那样不够浪漫。我想在农贸市场里和灵魂伴侣同时伸手去拿同一个番茄，然后幸福地生活在一起。我想对他们说的是，真正的浪漫在于你遇到了某个人并愿意承诺，你们将共同建立一段关系。相遇的方式重要吗？如果你们在一起五十年，相遇的那天只占这段关系的0.0055%。

And so for the romanticizers out there who say, I don't wanna be on a dating app because that's not romantic. I wanna go to a farmer's market and reach for the tomato the same time as my soulmate and fall happily ever after. What I like to say to them is that what's romantic is that you met someone and you wanna commit to them, and you're gonna build a relationship. Who cares how you met? If you're together for fifty years, the day you met is point 0055% of the relationship.

所以别再纠结于'我们如何相遇'的故事，专注于遇见对的人吧。

And so get over the WeMet story and just focus on meeting someone.

你还主张我们需要摒弃你所谓的'火花'。事实上，我觉得你对这点有个挺强烈的口号。什么是'火花'？问题出在哪里？

You've also argued that we need to get over what you call the spark. In fact, I think you have a a little bit of a strong motto about this. What what's what is what's the spark, and what's the big problem there?

好的。我不知道你们那边对脏话的规定，所以我只说我的口号是：去他的火花。写书时我对这个概念充满激情，但书出版后，这个观点似乎有了自己的生命，这让我很欣慰。'去他的火花'是指人们可能会经历一次非常棒的初次约会。

Okay. I don't know your rules over there about cursing, so I'll just say my motto around this is this idea of fuck the spark. And this is truly something that when I was writing the book, I felt passionate about. But since the book has come out, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, which I feel great about. And fuck the spark is the idea that people will go on a really good first date.

对方可能非常合适，有很多相处融洽的理由，但这个人却对我说：'洛根，我不会再见他们了，我就是没感受到火花。'于是火花成了包罗万象的词汇，代表瞬间的化学反应、烟花般的心动、小鹿乱撞的感觉。人们因此放弃了许多潜在的好伴侣，仅仅因为最初没有这种感觉。但研究显示，只有11%的情侣表示他们是一见钟情。

The person will be a great fit with them. There's a lot of reasons why they get along, but then this person will say to me, I'm not gonna see them again, Logan. I just didn't feel the spark. And so the spark has become this all encompassing word that means instant chemistry, fireworks, butterflies, and people are giving up on a lot of great potential partners because they didn't initially feel that. But the research shows that only eleven percent of couples say that they fell in love at first sight.

实际上，很多情侣是慢慢走到一起的。所以关于火花的第一个迷思是：如果一开始没感觉，就永远不会产生——这完全错误。随着时间的推移，人们会因为单纯曝光效应而更喜欢对方，即越熟悉的事物我们越喜欢。所以，火花确实可以随着时间增长。

And, actually, a lot of couples take time to get together. So the first myth of the spark is that if you don't feel it in the beginning, it's never gonna grow. That's absolutely not true. Over time, people like each other more because of the mere exposure aspect where when something's more familiar, we like it more. So, yes, the spark can grow over time.

关于火花的第二个迷思是：如果你感受到了，那必然是好事。这也不正确。我经常遇到让我觉得'哇，我们之间有点暧昧气氛'的人，结果我的三个朋友对同一个人也有同样感觉。这时我们才意识到：哦，问题不在我们身上。

The second myth of the spark is that if you feel it, it's necessarily a good thing. That is also not true. I can tell you, I often meet people where I'm like, wow, did we have a little flirty dynamic there? And then three of my friends say the same thing about that person. And we're like, oh, it's not us.

尤其是那个人。他们非常耀眼，给许多人带来那种感觉。但有时这实际上可能是某种负面迹象——可能是回避型人格的表现，他们让你感到兴奋是因为不断抽离，而你永远猜不透他们的真实想法。

It's that person in particular. They're very sparky. They give that feeling to many people. And sometimes it can actually be a sign of something negative. It can be a sign of somebody avoidant who makes you feel excited because they keep pulling away, and you don't know how they feel about you.

这种不确定性引发的焦虑常被误认为是心动。它也可能是自恋或某些负面行为的征兆。关于火花的第三个迷思是：初期有火花意味着关系能长久。这同样不成立。许多婚姻不幸或已离婚的夫妇最初都曾有过火花。

And that actually causes anxiety that you misinterpret as butterflies. It can also be a sign of narcissism or some negative behavior. The third myth of the spark is that if you have a spark in the beginning, the relationship is viable. That's also not true. Many unhappily married or now divorced couples once started with the spark.

火花足以让你开始一段关系，却不足以维系它。这正是我提倡'去他的火花，追求慢热'的原因。我觉得自己就嫁给了慢热型。慢热的人可能不够耀眼，他们或许不会在初次约会时闪闪发光，也不是派对焦点，但他们本质极好。

So it's enough to get you into a relationship, but not enough to keep you there. And that's really why I promote this idea of fuck the spark, go after the slow burn. And I feel like I married a slow burn myself. And a slow burn is someone who may not be the sparkiest. They may not be the person that shines on every first date or is the center of attention at a party, but they're a deeply good person.

他们可靠踏实，会是绝佳的人生伴侣。所以我总建议大家：火花固然有趣，享受它，这感觉真实存在。

They're reliable. They would be an incredible life partner. And so I really try to train people to yes, the spark is fun. Enjoy it. It's real.

但别用它来锚定整个人生和长期关系，给这些慢热型的人一个机会吧。

But don't cement your whole life and your long term relationship about it and really give these slow burn people a chance.

你曾提出我们容易陷入的第二种倾向——有些人常会沦为'最大化者'。什么是最大化者？

You've argued that there's a second tendency we can fall into and that some people themselves often fall into, which is being a maximizer. What's a maximizer?

没错。三大约会倾向中的第二种就是最大化者。在硅谷工作和纽约客户群中，我指导过大量这类人。最大化者对伴侣有着不切实际的期待，他们认为'通过研究就能找到完美人选'。就像买吸尘器时，他们会读50篇评测才确信'嗯，就是它了'。

Yeah. So the second of the three dating tendencies is the maximizer. And living in Silicon Valley and having a lot of clients who are in the New York area, I feel like I coach a ton of maximizers. And so the story with the Maximizer is that they have unrealistic expectations of their partner, and they are the kind of person who says, I can research my way into finding the perfect person. And so for them, if they wanna find a really good vacuum, they're gonna read 50 reviews on it and then feel like, yep.

我分析了所有这些。我能找到完美的真空状态。然后他们认为在约会中也能做到这一点。但在约会中不可能与每一个可能的人都约会。正如我们讨论过的可搜索商品与体验商品的区别，这根本不是一回事。

I analyzed all of this. I can find the perfect vacuum. And then they think that they can do that with dating. But it's impossible in dating to date every possible person. And as we talked about with searchable versus experiential goods, it's just not the same thing.

因此，追求最大化的人真的很挣扎，因为他们觉得，好吧，我已经和一些很棒的人约会过了。现在我只想把所有这些人的最佳特质结合起来，找到那个人。他们总是觉得我需要继续寻找，因为那样我会在外面找到其他人。最终的结果是，很多追求最大化的人不断拒绝别人，或者不接受那些可能很优秀的人。

And so maximizers really struggle because they feel like, okay. I've dated some great people. Now I just wanna combine the best traits of all of them and find that person. And they always feel like I need to keep searching because then I'll find somebody else out there. And what ends up happening is that a lot of maximizers keep rejecting people or not accepting someone who might be great.

然后在某个年龄，他们回头看，说，哇。我真希望我嫁给了之前遇到的某个优秀的人。

And then at a certain age, they look back and they say, wow. I wish that I had married one of the great people I had met before.

那么，怎样才能避免陷入追求最大化的陷阱呢？有没有其他好的策略我们可以使用？

And so what's the solution to not kind of falling prey to maximizing? Is there another good strategy we should use?

是的。认知心理学家赫伯特·西蒙提出了一个很好的框架，讨论了追求最大化的人和满足者。我们刚刚讨论了追求最大化的人，但满足者是满足和足够的合成词，他们有标准，但不会过分担心外面还有更好的。当我向人们提到满足者时，他们常常听到另一个以s开头的词，即‘将就’，然后对此非常抵触。洛根，其他人都找到了他们的爱情故事。

Yes. So there's an excellent framework by the cognitive psychologist Herbert Simon who talks about maximizers and satisficers. And so we just talked about maximizers, but a satisficer, which is the portmanteau of satisfy and suffice, they have standards, but they're not overly concerned about finding something else out there. And so when I say dissatisfies to people, they often hear a different s word, which is settle, and they get really defensive about this. Logan, everyone else found their love story.

为什么你要我将就？但满足并不是将就。它是关于有一个标准，这个标准可以非常高。然后当你遇到一个满足这个标准的人时，你说，太好了。我要和他们建立一段关系。

Why do you want me to settle? But satisficing is not about settling. It's about having a standard, which can be very high. And then when you meet someone who satisfies that standard, then you say, great. I'm gonna build a relationship with them.

我要和他们一起生活，而不是像追求最大化的人那样，找到那个了不起的人后说，哇。既然他们存在，那还有什么可能存在呢？人们误解的是，他们认为追求最大化的人会做出更好的决定。但我们发现并非如此。我们发现追求最大化的人做出了好的决定，然后对此感到糟糕。

I'm gonna build a life with them instead of doing what maximizers do, which is find that amazing person and then say, wow. Well, if they exist, what else might exist? And what people get wrong is that they think maximizers make better decisions. But that's not what we found. We found that maximizers make good decisions and then feel bad about them.

满足者也能做出好决定，并且会为此感到满意。那么更重要的是，做对的事还是感到快乐？

Satisficers also make good decisions, but then they feel good about them. And so what's more important, being right or being happy?

这种对决定感到满意的行为似乎也意味着，你愿意投入长期关系所需的努力，对吧？就是随着时间的推移，你会更多地投资于你的伴侣，慢慢经营这段关系。而作为一个最大化者，你很快就会想，哦，我肯定做错了决定，因为外面有更完美的人。所以如果你在这一点上出了小差错，那你肯定不是对的人。看起来满足者最终所做的确实有助于他们长期投资于这段关系。

It also seems like this act of feeling good about your decision means you're gonna do the work that all long term relationships are gonna need, right, where you're kind of investing in your partner a little bit more over time, you know, kinda working it through. You're a maximizer and you quickly go to like, oh, I must have made the wrong decision because there's this perfect person out there. So if you mess up in this tiny way, you must not be that person. It seems like ultimately satisficers are doing something that really helps them invest in the relationship long term too.

完全正确。我想，自从为我的书做研究并了解这一点后，我真的尝试在生活的更多方面成为一个满足者。比如，疫情期间我需要买车时，我明确自己想要一辆二手混合动力车，心里也有个预算。

Absolutely. And I think, you know, since doing the research for my book and learning about this, I've really tried to become a satisficer in a lot more aspects of my life. So for example, when I needed to buy a car during the pandemic, I understood that I wanted something used. I wanted a hybrid. I had a certain price in mind.

我去了两家经销商那里。当我找到想要的车时，就直接买下了。从那以后我一直感觉很棒。我想，如果我最大化这个决定，花更多时间研究，最终可能还是买了同一辆车或另一辆车，但感觉会更糟。所以我真心认为，这是人们可以在生活中感到更快乐的重要方式——明白你可以设定标准并满足它们。

And I went to two dealerships. And when I found the car that I wanted, I just bought it. And I felt great about it ever since. I think that there's a world where I had maximized that decision and I had spent much longer researching and either wound up with the same car or a different car, which I felt worse about. And so I truly think that this is a huge thing that people can do to feel happier in their lives is to understand that you can set standards and satisfy them.

你不需要总是想着外面还有什么更好的选择，因为这种萦绕在脑海中的疑问实际上会剥夺你生活中的快乐。

You don't need to always wonder what else is out there because that's the nagging question in your head that actually robs the joy from your life.

这就是过于追求最大化的问题。你提到的最后一个问题，实际上让我回想起自己过去的约会生活时深有共鸣，那就是我们对自己的一种可能误导我们的信念——认为自己不值得被爱。你最近在一份通讯中遇到了一个非常有趣的事件，揭示了这种偏见有多么普遍。能说说吗？

And so that's the problem of being too much of a maximizer. A final issue that you brought up, which actually is one that I resonated with a lot when I think back to my old dating life, is kind of a belief that we have in ourselves that can leave us astray. It's this idea that we are undateable. And you had a really interesting incident recently with a newsletter where you saw just how prevalent this bias was. Tell me about it.

是的。我发现的第三种倾向叫做犹豫者，这类人对自身抱有不切实际的期望。如果你正在听，却完全没有约会，单身但可能想谈恋爱，那你就是犹豫者。犹豫者总觉得‘我还没准备好进入约会市场’，认为‘等我减掉10磅、找到更体面的工作、整理好公寓后才会准备好’。

Yes. So the third tendency that I've identified is called the hesitator, and this is someone who has unrealistic expectations of themselves. So if you're listening and you're not even dating at all and you're single and you might wanna be in a relationship, then you are a hesitator. And so a hesitator is someone who feels like I'm just not ready to be out there. I'll be ready when I lose 10 pounds, when I have a more impressive job, when I clean up my apartment.

总有一个未来状态会让你变得值得被爱，但现在的你还不够可爱。可悲的是，犹豫者确实会错过一些东西。他们低估了不恋爱的机会成本——你无法提升恋爱技巧，也找不到理想的伴侣。

There's always a future state where you will be lovable, but you're not lovable right now. And what's so sad is that hesitators really miss out on a few things. They underestimate the opportunity cost of not dating, which is you don't get better at dating and you don't figure out who you wanna be with.

最近你还遇到一件事，我觉得你看到了这种犹豫策略有多普遍。是的，当时我正在...

And you also had an incident recently where I think you saw how prevalent this a one type of this hesitator strategy is. Yes. So I was working with

指导一位客户，他们提到觉得自己不适合约会。他们认为自己存在根本性缺陷，意味着不值得被爱，不敢去约会因为怕被拒绝。这让我印象深刻。于是我在每周通讯中写道：你是否觉得自己不适合约会？请回复我说明原因。

a coaching client, and they mentioned this idea of feeling undateable. They felt like there was something fundamentally wrong with them that meant that they weren't lovable and that they couldn't go out there and date because somebody would reject them. And it really stuck with me. So I wrote to my weekly newsletter and I said, do you feel like you're undateable? Write back to me with some of the reasons why you might feel this way.

在我发送过的250多期通讯中，这期收到最多回复，因为人们深感被理解。他们回复说：我不适合约会因为患有性病/从未谈过恋爱/恋爱经历太多/有慢性疾病...

And out of every newsletter that I've ever sent, so over 250 newsletters, this one got the most responses because people just felt so seen by it. And they wrote back and they said things like, I'm undateable because I have an STI. I'm undateable because I've never been in a romantic relationship before. I'm undateable because I've been in too many romantic relationships. I'm undateable because I have chronic health issues.

有人说：我不适合约会因为二十多岁得过癌症，不知如何启齿。大量邮件透露出人们内心深处觉得自己有根本缺陷，注定无人会爱。后来我写了几期通讯，讲述正是脆弱和缺陷让我们真实，反而容易引发共鸣。我分享了一位戒酒者朋友的故事：他过去因不愿解释为何点果汁而非酒而拒绝约会。

I'm undateable because I had cancer in my twenties, and I don't know how to talk about it. And just so many emails coming from a really deep place where people felt like there was something fundamentally wrong with them that meant that no one would ever love them. And then I put together some future newsletters that talked about how, actually, it's our vulnerability, it's our flaws that make us feel human and that other people can relate to. And I told the story of a good friend of mine who is a former alcoholic. And he used to not date because he didn't wanna have to talk about why he was ordering juice instead instead of a drink, and he was really afraid of it.

但某天他突然说：其实我为戒酒骄傲，我要用积极态度面对。于是他掌控了自己的叙事：'我曾与酒瘾斗争...'

But at a certain point, he just said, you know what? I'm actually really proud of my sobriety, and I'm just gonna talk about it from a place of strength. And so he really owned his narrative. Hey. I used to struggle with this.

'这是我跌入谷底的时刻...如今我已掌控人生，七年没沾酒了。'有时约会对象不喜欢这故事，但后来他遇到一位女士说：'哦，我也有很多问题呢。'

Here's when I hit rock bottom. Now I actually have taken control of my life. I've been sober for seven years. And sometimes he would talk about it on dates, and girls didn't like it. But at a certain point, he talked to someone, and she was like, oh, I also have a bunch of issues.

你有包袱，我也有包袱。我们的包袱很相配。这让她感到更加自在。现在他们幸福地在一起了。

You have baggage. I have baggage. Our baggage matches. And it made her much more comfortable. And now they are happily together.

他们拥有自己的房子，养了一只狗，还有两个孩子。这个故事讲述了一个人愿意展现脆弱，分享那些他们认为会让自己失去吸引力的事情。实际上，这反而让他们更容易与人建立联系，并最终成就了一段美好的关系。

They own a house. They have a dog. They have two kids. And it really is the story of somebody who was willing to be vulnerable, to share the thing that they thought made them undateable. And that actually made them easier to connect with, and it led to an amazing relationship.

这让我想起了一种心理偏见，叫做‘美丽的混乱效应’。对吧？我们总以为自己的脆弱会显得尴尬，或者别人会将其视为危险信号，让我们失去吸引力。但事实上，我们的混乱在某种程度上对他人来说是美丽的。奇怪的是，它最终反而让我们更具吸引力。

It reminds me of the psychological bias known as the beautiful mess effect. Right? That, like, we think that our vulnerabilities are gonna be awkward or everybody's see them as red flags or make us undateable. But in fact, our messes are in some sense beautiful to other people. Like, it winds up in some weird way making us more attractive rather than less.

我之前没听过这个术语，但我很喜欢，因为我觉得布琳·布朗一直在传递这个信息。你的脆弱正是吸引他人的地方。那些让你觉得自己不值得被爱的东西，实际上让你更值得被爱。谁不喜欢一个美丽的混乱呢？

I haven't heard that term before, but I really like it because I feel like Brene Brown has been putting out this message for a long time. Your vulnerability is what attracts people to you. The thing that makes you think you're unlovable is actually making you very lovable. Who doesn't love a beautiful mess?

一个美丽的混乱可以造就一个美丽的伴侣。但当我们从休息回来时，洛根将分享她的警示故事，讲述她如何因为外表和氛围追求一个男人，差点错过了真命天子。《幸福实验室》稍后继续。良好的沟通在生活中至关重要，无论是个人还是职业层面。我的朋友马特·亚伯拉罕的播客《快思慢讲》可以帮助你在这方面做得更好。

A beautiful mess can make a beautiful partner. But when we get back from the break, Logan will share her cautionary tale of how pursuing a guy based on his looks and vibe almost caused her to miss out on mister Right. The Happiness Lab will return in a moment. Good communication is essential in life, both personally and professionally. And my friend, Matt Abraham's podcast, think fast, talk smart, can help you do better with that.

每周，马特都会与包括我在内的专家坐下来，分享实用的、基于研究的技巧，帮助你学习如何在对话中深入连接，如何成为一个更好的倾听者，以及如何在冲突中清晰地沟通。本月，《快思慢讲》推出了一系列与科技工具创作者的迷你访谈，探讨如何利用他们的工具提升你的职业沟通和生活质量。如果你准备好提升你的沟通技巧，每周二收听播客，并在fastersmarter.io上找到更多提升沟通的内容。约会专家洛根·乌里的书名为《如何不孤独终老》，这概括了她工作的重点。她希望我们找到的不仅仅是一夜情，而是一段承诺的关系。

Each week, Matt sits down with experts, including me, to share practical research backed tips to help you learn things like how to connect deeply in conversation, how to be a better listener, and how to communicate clearly through conflict. And this month, think fast, talk smart features a mini series with tech tool creators on how to use their tools to improve your professional communication and your life. So if you're ready to level up your communication game, listen every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts and find additional content to level up your communication at fastersmarter.io. Dating expert Logan Urie's book is called how to not die alone, and that sums up the focus of her work. She wants us to find not just a casual hookup, but a committed relationship.

问题在于，我们常常将美好的一夜情误认为是完美的终身伴侣。这是洛根本人亲身经历过的错误。

The problem is that we often confuse a great one night stand for the perfect life partner. It's an error that Logan herself experienced firsthand.

好的。没错。我们来聊聊'火人节布莱恩'。他确实完美符合舞会约会对象的典型形象。那么什么是舞会约会对象呢？

Okay. Yes. Let's talk about Burning Man Brian. And so he really was this prom date archetype. And what is a prom date?

那是你被吸引的人，有趣的人，你想与之共舞整夜、合影留念，或许在夜晚结束时接吻的对象。他完全满足了我的这些期待——我确实被他强烈吸引。但我是否考虑过他作为人生伴侣的可能性？没有。人生伴侣应该是可靠的类型。

It's somebody who you're attracted to, somebody who's fun, somebody who you wanna dance the night with, take pictures with, maybe, you know, kiss at the end of the night. And so he really fulfilled that for me where I was very attracted to him. Was I thinking about what he would be like as a life partner? No. A life partner is the kind of person who's reliable.

你能与之共同做出艰难决定。你知道他们会准时从牙医诊所接回你的孩子，而不是在约定时间前五分钟发短信说'我完全忘了，你能去吗？'。我发现年轻时的心动对象完全可以是舞会约会型，在我们恋爱史的早期阶段这完全没问题。

You can make hard decisions with them. You know that they will pick up your kid from the dentist, and you're not even gonna get a text five minutes before saying, oh, I totally forgot. Can you do it? And so what I found is that when you're younger and you have crushes, it's totally fine to be interested in the prom date. I think that for the early years of our dating history, that's absolutely fine.

但人们常犯的错误是没有及时转换到人生伴侣的思维模式。比如当我听到四十出头的女性说正在约会一个住在地下室（没有窗户）、还没准备好要孩子的男性时，我会说：既然你想要孩子，真的需要开始寻找价值观相符的人了。

But the mistake that people make is that they don't switch to the life partner mentality soon enough. And so that's like when I'm talking to women who are in their early forties and they're talking about dating a guy who lives in a basement with no windows and isn't ready for kids yet. I'm just like, well, you want kids. So I think you really need to start finding somebody who shares those values.

但你通过现任丈夫斯科特——我从前的研究助理——成功转变了这种模式。斯科特如何成为更好的人生伴侣？他是怎样让你摆脱舞会约会型择偶观的？

But you found a way to shift out of that with your current husband, Scott, my former research assistant. So how is Scott, like, a better life partner? How did he get you away from sort of prom date model?

是的。我特别珍视与斯科特的故事，因为它或许能激励他人——这不是传统的一见钟情童话。我们多年前在大学初遇（他当时加了我Facebook，可能有点调情意味），但之后七年毫无交集。后来我们在谷歌共事时共进午餐。

Yeah. So I really love the story that I have with Scott because I feel like it's something that can hopefully be inspirational to other people because it's not the traditional love story where we just met day one, love at first sight, and then have been happily ever after ever since. So we actually first met in college many years ago. And I just remember this because he added me on Facebook at the time, which, of course, was probably a little bit of flirtation, but I don't remember meeting him in college after that. And then seven years later, we were both working at Google, and we had lunch together.

当时我们很投缘但无下文。甚至那个夏天我在Tinder刷到他时还左划了，因为他戴反棒球帽的样子像个花花公子。但当我决定学习统计编程语言R时（你们肯定常用），刚退出博士项目的斯科特正是R语言专家。

And we kind of hit it off, but nothing came out of it. And I even saw him on Tinder that summer, and I swiped left because I was like, he looks like a bro wearing a backwards hat. I just wasn't interested at all. But then I wanted to learn this statistical programming language, R, which I'm sure you and your students use all the time. And Scott had just dropped out of a PhD program where he used R all the time.

于是他开始教我R语言。这一切都发生在我追求'火人节布莱恩'期间。所以我直接把斯科特排除在外了，心想：他好像不喜欢旅行，还对去火人节的人嗤之以鼻。

So he started tutoring me in R. So this was all happening while I was pursuing Burning Man Brian. And so I just wrote Scott off. I was like, he doesn't seem to like to travel. He's dismissive of people who go to Burning Man.

那时我完全沉浸在对'火人节布莱恩'这种毕业舞会式迷恋中。但后来我自己去见了约会教练，这对我至关重要——我不断自问：为什么总在重复相同的行为模式？为什么总追逐那些对我不感兴趣的人？通过这个练习，我们深入思考了我希望未来伴侣让我感受到什么。

And I was really focused on this, you know, prom date crush of Burning Man Brian. But I ended up seeing a dating coach myself. And that's something that was so critical for me because I was just sitting there saying, why am I repeating the same habits over and over again? Why am I chasing these guys who don't want me? And through that exercise, we really thought about how I wanted my future partner to make me feel.

比如被欣赏、被渴望、感觉聪明风趣。而'火鸟布莱恩'带给我的只有不安、自卑、焦虑和患得患失。但当我反思时发现，那个教我R语言的同事确实让我感受到了正向情绪。这让我以全新视角看待关系，真正理解了健康感情应该带来的感受，完全颠覆了我以往的认知。

And it was things like appreciated, desired, smart, funny. And Birdie Man Brian didn't make me feel any of those things. He made me feel insecure, self conscious, anxious, not good enough. But I reflected on the fact that this guy at work that was teaching me r did make me feel those things. And so it was seeing things through a new light, understanding actually how great relationships make you feel, which was different from what I thought it was before.

这让我把注意力转向那位同事，想办法让他约我出去，后来的故事你们都知道了。

That really helped me shift my attention to this guy at work, kinda convince him to ask me on a date, and then the rest is history.

太棒了！这部分归功于你用关系科学理清了真正重要的东西对吧？在斯科特这件事上，你开始关注那些更本质的要素了。

Yay. Yay. And that was in part because you were using relationship science to figure out what really mattered. Right? In the case of Scott, you were kinda paying attention to the stuff that matters more.

但现在我想聚焦的是：如果听众们想用更快乐、更科学的方式开始约会，有哪些策略可用？首先，无论最初如何相识，都应该尽快线下见面。为什么这点如此重要？

But what I wanna focus on now is, like, what are some strategies that our listeners can use if they wanna start dating in a happier, more evidence based way, starting with this idea that no matter how you meet the person in the beginning, you should really get together in real life. Why is that so important?

没错。我们讨论过'笔友陷阱'——人们总在见面前置聊太久，以为需要通过文字确认所有信息和化学反应，这完全是误区。Hinge数据显示，从匹配到约会的黄金窗口期是三天。其实在打电话或视频前，你根本不需要掌握海量信息。

Yeah. So we talked about this idea of pen paling and how people spend way too long talking before they meet up in person. And they think, oh, well, I need to find out all this information and see if we have chemistry over text, and that's just misinformed. At Hinge, we actually found that the sweet spot is transitioning from the app to the date after three days. And so, really, you don't need a ton of information before you talk on the phone or do a FaceTime.

相反，关键在于亲自见面感受彼此间的化学反应，这样就能避免‘莫奈效应’——即凭空想象对方不具备的品质，最终导致失望。

And instead, it's about meeting up in person and seeing what the chemistry is so that you avoid that Monet effect of assuming all these qualities about the person that aren't there and then ultimately being disappointed.

所以我明白这确实很有价值，但我想人们选择笔友交流的部分原因是他们有些害怕，对吧？现实中见面总存在某种阻力。关于第一次现实约会，你有什么实用建议吗？比如可以分享哪些谈话技巧？

And so I see why that could be really valuable, but my guess is that one of the reasons people are pen paling is that, like, they're a little scared. Right? There's something, like, friction about getting together in real life. And so any great tips for that first in real life date? Maybe what are some conversation tips that you might share?

当然。我最推崇的谈话技巧之一是‘in media res’（拉丁语），就像戏剧开场直接切入剧情高潮。太多初次约会都停留在浅水区，尽是些‘你怎么过来的？’之类的寒暄。

Sure. So one of the conversation tips that I'm a big fan of is this idea of in media res, which is a Latin term that really means when you're watching a play and it starts in the middle of the action. And so far too often on first dates, people are just in the shallow end of the pool. They're doing all the small talk. Oh, how did you get here?

‘你住哪儿？’‘什么时候搬来这城市的？’‘大学学什么专业？’‘家里几个兄弟姐妹？’这些无聊问题你可能已回答过百万次，根本无法创造共同体验。

Where do you live? When did you move to the city? What did you study in school? How many siblings do you have? Stuff that is so boring that you've probably said a million times, and you're not really having an experience with somebody.

我建议约会开场可以说：‘来的路上听了《幸福实验室》超有意思的一期，你绝对猜不到我学到的这个‘心理免疫系统’概念。’对方自然会被吸引。之后随时可以回溯询问教育背景等常规问题。但请记住，讨论真实话题能让约会质量倍增，而寒暄只会让你因重复自我而感到倦怠。这就是‘从中间开始’的技巧。

So I love the idea of walking into a date and saying, I was listening to the most interesting episode of The Happiness Lab on my way here, and you'll never guess about this term that I learned about our psychological immune system. And then the person's like, okay, yeah, let's talk about that interesting thing. Then you could always backtrack later and ask about school and siblings and things like that. But just understanding that you're gonna have such a better time if you have a real conversation about real things and that the small talk can just lead to burnout because you feel like you're just repeating yourself over and over again. So that's one tip is to start in the middle of things.

另一个常见错误是，人们太想展现魅力而大谈自己，其实展现兴趣更重要。最会聊天的人往往是那些善于提问的，他们让对方感到自己被关注，从而更喜欢与其相处。

And then another mistake that I see people making on first dates is they're so focused on being interesting that they talk a lot about themselves, but it's much more important to be interested. And so often, the best conversationalists are the people who really just ask questions because they make the other person feel so interesting, and then that person likes being around them.

你还提到过一个提升这种能力的技巧，称为‘支持性转移’。具体是指什么？

You've also described one technique we can use to do that better, what you call shift in support. What do you mean?

很多时候，当人们怀着善意交谈时，比如有人提到‘今年夏天我要去太浩湖’，对方想接话时会说‘哦，我去过太浩湖’，然后讲述自己的旅行经历。他们以为这是在参与对话，实则将焦点转回自己身上。真正让人感到愉悦的，是给予支持性回应，引导对方深入分享。

So a lot of times when people are having a conversation and they mean well, somebody mentioned something like, oh, I'm going to Lake Tahoe this summer. And then the person wants to add on to that, and they say, oh, I've been to Lake Tahoe. Here's what happened on my trip. And so they feel like they're contributing to the conversation, but what they're really doing is shifting the focus back to themselves. What actually makes people feel really good is when you give a support response where you help them go deeper.

你应该说：‘哇，为什么选择太浩湖？以前去过吗？最期待什么？’这才是优秀记者、采访者和交谈者做的事——通过提问帮你深入挖掘生活体验，让你感到被倾听、被重视。这种能力将卓越的交谈者与普通人区分开来。

So you say, wow. How did you choose Lake Tahoe? Have you ever been there before? What are you most excited about it? And that's really what a great journalist does, a great interviewer, a great conversationalist is they're asking questions that help you go deeper into your life experience, and that ends up making you feel really heard and seen and important, and that helps separate a great conversationalist from the rest.

以上就是第一条建议：我们需要线下见面，并在见面时深入交流。你的第二条建议是：我们需要将约会心态从‘评估型’转变为‘体验型’。

And so that was tip number one. We need to get together in real life. We need to go deeper when we do get together in real life. Your tip number two is that we need to shift our dating mindset from the evaluative to the experiential.

无论是听客户描述约会，还是在餐厅咖啡厅旁观初次约会，你都能明显感觉到人们处于‘评估模式’——就像在面试求职者或参加求职面试。这种心态下，你脑中会有个检查清单：‘他们配得上我吗？工作够体面吗？看起来重视家庭吗？’仿佛在核对岗位要求是否满足。

So often when I either hear from my clients about their dates or even just being next to a couple on a first date in a restaurant or a coffee shop, you can just really tell that people are in this evaluative mindset, almost as if they are interviewing somebody for a job or they themselves are on a job interview. So the evaluative mindset is that you have a mental checklist in your head where you say things like, are they good enough for me? Do they have a good enough job? Do they seem to like their family enough? And it's almost like they're going through checking all these boxes, seeing if that person fulfills their open role, their job description.

我倡导的是‘体验型心态’：活在当下，关注这个人带给你的感受，激发了你哪方面的特质。因为纸上条件并不重要——有些人简历完美、背景光鲜，但相处时让你不适。我常告诫客户：‘我知道你为那个女孩着迷，但每次约会后你都更沮丧。她资料再完美又如何？你曾立志娶律师又怎样？’

Instead, I really want people to shift to the experiential mindset where you're present in the moment, where you're really paying attention to how this person makes you feel, what side of you they bring out, because it doesn't really matter what the person is like on paper. There are people out there that have the perfect resume, the perfect bio data, but when you're with them, you don't feel good around them. And that's something that I teach my clients all the time is that I know you were really excited about that girl, but when you've gone out with her, every time you come home feeling worse about yourself. So who cares that she had the perfect profile? Who cares that you always thought you would marry a lawyer?

这个女孩并不合适。这引出下个建议：关于‘约会后八问’。这是我为深陷‘评估式约会’无法自拔的客户设计的八个问题。她会把问题存在手机里，在约会后搭优步或步行回家时自问。问题包括：‘他们激发了我哪方面的特质？’

This girl isn't it. And that actually leads to my next tip, which is about the postdate So the postdate eight is a series of questions that I came up with for my client who is really struggling with this, where she just could not let go of this mindset of evaluative dating. And so she had these eight questions, which I can tell you, and she would save them on her phone and on the Uber during her walk home from the date. She had to ask herself these questions. And the questions are things like, what side of me did they bring out?

约会时我的身体状态如何？僵硬、放松还是介于两者之间？比起约会前，我感到更有活力还是更疲惫？对他们有什么好奇的点？他们让我笑了吗？

How did my body feel during the date? Stiff, relaxed, or something in between? Do I feel more energized or de energized than I did before the date? Is there something about them that I'm curious about? Did they make me laugh?

我感到被倾听了吗？在他们面前我觉得自己有魅力吗？我是感到着迷、无聊，还是介于两者之间？这项研究背后的原理与感恩日记奏效的原因相同。我们使用感恩日记是因为，如果你知道一天结束时必须写下三件让你感恩的事，你就会主动去寻找这些事。

Did I feel heard? Did I feel attractive in their presence? And did I feel captivated, bored, or something in between? And the research behind this is the same reason why gratitude journals work. So we use gratitude journals because if you know at the end of the day, you have to write down three things that you feel grateful for throughout the day, you're looking for those things.

约会后八问也是同样的运作方式。如果你必须在约会后回答：他们让我笑了吗？我感到被倾听了吗？你就会在约会过程中关注这些细节。这正是我的客户用来专注体验与对方相处的技巧，这能帮助他们更快拒绝那些让自己感觉不好的约会，同时也更愿意给慢热型对象机会——当他们心想：虽然不够火花四溅，但我在他们面前确实感受到了魅力。

And that's how the postdate eight works as well. If you have to answer after the date, did they make me laugh? Did I feel heard? You're gonna pay attention to that during the date. And so this really is a technique that my clients use to really focus on their experience of being with the person, and that helps them, a, say no faster to dates that don't make them feel good about themselves, but also, b, say yes to those slow burn people where they think, yes.

这个人虽然不够耀眼，但他们的存在确实让我觉得自己很有吸引力，甚至激发了我热衷探索的知性一面。所以要训练大脑去关注真正重要的特质。

It wasn't the sparkiest person, but I actually did feel really attractive in their presence. It actually brought out a very intellectual side of me that I love to explore. And so train your brain to look for the stuff that matters.

某种程度上，这属于一个更宏观的理念：我们应该像科学家而非律师那样对待约会——不是咄咄逼人的盘问者，而是全程认真关注数据表现。

And in a way, this is, like, part of a broader idea, which is, like, we should sort of, like, treat ourselves like a scientist on a date rather than kind of a, like, a a lawyer, a cross examiner. We're kind of really trying to pay attention to the data as we go through.

没错。我从未这样总结过，但我经常说要用科学家的态度约会。我如此推崇这个观点是因为科学家的做法是：提出假设，进行验证，并愿意接受证伪。而人们在约会中往往固执己见从不验证——我辅导过坚持要找高学历对象的人，

Yes. I've never put that thought together, but I do often like to say date like a scientist. And the reason why I'm so passionate about that is because what scientists do, of course, is they have a hypothesis, and they test it, and they're willing to be proven wrong. I think far too often in dating, people have a hypothesis, they assume it's correct, and they never test it. So I've literally worked with people who say, I need someone who has a graduate degree.

但深入沟通后发现，他们真正需要的是求知欲旺盛的人，而非特定高等学历。这时验证方法就是：试着约会没上过大学但极其聪颖的自学者，对方每周读一本书是否能给你同等感受？我对身高要求者也用同样方法。人们总预设需要高个子或特定背景，而科学式约会能证明：所谓理想型未必是让你长期幸福的人，这是个发现真相的过程。

But when I really talk to them, it's more that they need somebody who's intellectually curious versus having this specific form of an advanced degree. So then the way to test it is, can you go out with this guy who didn't even graduate college, but actually is super smart, is self taught, is reading a book a week, and does that give you the same feeling? And so I do that with people with height too, and they assume I need a really tall person or I need someone with this background. And so I love the idea of dating like a scientist because it's really a way of saying my so called type may not be the person who makes me happiest long term, and it's a way to figure that out.

因此我特别喜欢的第四个建议，也与我们在幸福实验室讨论的其他观点共鸣：要让约会更美好快乐，你需要注入更多玩乐元素。为什么玩乐对愉快约会如此重要？

And so tip number four is one that I really like and resonates with other things we've talked about in the happiness lab, which is that to have a better, happier date, you need to add a bit more play. Why is play so important for happier dates?

是的。我也很喜欢这一点，因为作为一个新手妈妈，我正处于人生的一个阶段，现在有更多机会玩耍，我意识到这真的是一天中最美好的时光。虽然听起来有点俗套和陈词滥调。但当我感到压力时，仅仅是给女儿洗澡，真正活在当下，和她一起傻乐，就比什么都开心，这让我从以工作为主的日常生活中彻底放松。所以当人们在约会时能带着这种玩乐的心态，实际上是在创造一个小世界，共同构建某种体验。

Yes. I love this one too because I would say I'm at a point in my life now being a new mom where I am getting to play a lot more, and I realize that it's just the highlight of my day. It's so cheesy and cliche. But when I feel stressed, just giving my daughter a bath and just really being present in the moment and being silly with her, that is so much more fun, and that is such a break from the rest of my very work oriented daily life. And so when people are on a date and they can bring a sense of play, it's really a sense of we're in a small world and we're creating something together.

我们在经历新奇体验，展现自己脆弱的一面。所以如果你正在听，并且你是个常因表现过于严肃而困扰的人，该如何设计一次真正能展现你滑稽或 playful 一面的约会呢？如果你滑冰技术不好，或许现在就该去滑冰场，你可以摔倒并自嘲，这能帮你突显这一面。甚至有位为我书作采访的对象，他喜欢在约会时吃饺子，任由酱油从脸上滴下来。

We're having a novel experience. We're showing vulnerable sides of ourselves. So if you're listening and you're somebody out there who struggles because you come across as too serious, how can you actually design a date that really brings out your silly or playful side? So if you're not a good ice skater, maybe you should be going ice skating right now, and you can fall and make fun of yourself, and it'll help emphasize that side of yourself. Or even I had somebody who I interviewed for my book who liked to go on dates where they ate dumplings and they would have soy sauce dripping from their face.

正是这种不那么较真的态度，让两个人能真正享受乐趣、建立联结，创造那些我们都在追寻的难忘新奇体验。

And there was just something about taking yourself less seriously that really allowed two people to have fun, to connect, and to really create those novel experiences that are memorable and that we're all seeking.

这似乎也与你之前休息前给出的建议——关于多展现一点脆弱性——相吻合对吧？比如脸上沾了酱油，或者在滑冰挑战中出糗，这类事情反而容易让人产生亲近感，而不是质疑你。

It also seems like this fits with your advice that we heard before the break about being a little bit more vulnerable. Right? If you get the soy sauce on your face or you're flubbing, you know, your ice skating challenge, like, are the kinds of things that could actually endear people to you rather than kind of make people question you.

完全正确。我相信很多人——包括我自己某些时候——都会觉得：如果我表现得完美无缺，世界会更喜欢我。如果体重符合主流审美标准，如果总是光鲜得体，如果拥有高大上的头衔，别人就会更喜欢我。我们总以为只要达到某种成就标准，迎合传统意义上的成功，就能获得喜爱。但实际上，人们真正喜欢的是那些能让他们自在做自己的人，是那些不会让他们在比较中感到自卑的人。

Absolutely. I think that so many people out there, and I'm sure some part of me feels this way too, is, like, the world will like me more if I seem perfect. The world will like me more if I weigh this certain amount that's conventionally attractive, if I always look perfectly put together, if I have this really fancy job title. And we just think that, oh, if we have this sense of achievement, if we really play into conventional levels of success, then people will like us. But, actually, what most people like is somebody who makes them feel comfortable in their own skin, somebody who doesn't make them feel worse in comparison.

所以关键是如何培养这种心态：这就是真实的我，虽有缺点但我接纳自己，同时也愿意接纳你。因为说到底，所谓亲密关系，不正是决定接纳对方全部——无论好坏吗？

And so, really, how can you foster that sense of this is who I am, warts and all, and I accept myself, and I'm also willing to accept you. Because at the end of the day, what is a relationship other than deciding I accept you for who you are, good and bad?

这正好自然过渡到第五个建议：你可能自以为清楚想要什么，但研究显示你很可能错了。因此我们需要重新审视那些'可容忍的小毛病'。你说的这个短语具体指什么呢？

And that is a nice transition to tip number five, which is that you might think you know what you want, but the research kinda shows that you're wrong. And, therefore, you might need to get a little bit better about our permissible pet peeves. What do you mean by permissible pet peeves?

我真正开始思考这个问题是在几年前，当时遇到一位女士，她说：‘洛根，我36岁了，准备寻找爱情。只要你推荐的人我都会去见——除非他是个用嘴呼吸的人。’我当时就懵了，什么叫用嘴呼吸？

I really started thinking about this a few years ago when I met this woman who was like, Logan, I'm 36. I'm ready to find love. I'll go out with anyone who you recommend unless he's a mouth breather. And I was like, what? What is even mouth breathing?

后来我弄明白了这个词的意思，但实在难以置信她竟然认为用嘴而非鼻子呼吸的人就是绝对无法交往的硬性标准。这让我开始思考‘可容忍的小怪癖’这个概念。是的，我们都有一些比常人更易被激怒的小毛病，但这并非根本性的不合，不至于因此否定长期发展的可能。她错把可容忍的怪癖当成了不可妥协的原则问题。

And so I figured out what that was, but I just couldn't believe that she had decided that this idea of somebody who breathes through their mouth instead of their nose was a deal breaker, a reason why she definitely couldn't be with someone. And so that really led me to this idea of permissible pet peeves. So, yes, a lot of us have pet peeves, something that annoys us perhaps more than it annoys the average person. But, of course, it's not a fundamental incompatibility that means that she shouldn't be with this person long term. So she is confusing a permissible pet peeve for a deal breaker.

这个概念近年在流行文化中相当火爆。人们称之为‘下头瞬间’——比如当你和约会对象相谈甚欢，甚至考虑共度良宵时，对方掏钱结账突然传来‘刺啦’一声...

And this has actually been pretty big in pop culture in the last year or so. People talk about this idea of the So the ick is that you are on a date with someone. You're really into them. Maybe you're thinking about going home with them. And then all of a sudden, they go to pay for the bill, and you hear, shh.

那是魔术贴钱包被撕开的声音。就因为35岁男人口袋里装着魔术贴钱包，瞬间让人下头想逃。虽然这些故事很滑稽，喜剧演员也常拿来当段子，但实在荒谬。谁在乎对方用魔术贴钱包？谁在乎有人穿凉鞋配袜子？

And that sound is the sound of a Velcro wallet opening up. And the person decides that Velcro wallet in the pocket of a 35 year old man gives you the ick, and now you're gonna run away. And I know these stories are funny and comedians are, you know, getting a lot of sets out of this, but it's ridiculous. Who cares if somebody has a Velcro wallet? Who cares if somebody wears socks with sandals?

这绝不意味着你无法拥有一段美好的长期关系。我们只是知道，那些因素与长期关系的成功并无关联。所以，如果你正因诸多此类条件而困扰，我建议你列出所有所谓的‘不可妥协项’——那些你认为无法与某人在一起的理由，然后尽可能将它们移至‘可容忍的小毛病’类别。比如，如果你有哮喘而对方吸烟，那确实是不可妥协的；如果你是犹太教徒而伴侣是基督徒，且你们都希望孩子在自己的宗教环境下成长，那么这很可能也是个不可妥协的问题。

There's no way that means that you can't be in a great long term relationship. We just know that those things are not correlated with long term relationship success. So if you are somebody out there who has a lot of things like this, then I encourage you to make a list of all of your, quote, unquote, deal breakers, the reason why you can't be with someone, and to move as many of them as possible into the permissible pet peeves category. And so if you have asthma and someone smokes, that's breaker. If you are Jewish and your partner is Christian and you both wanna raise kids in your own religion, then, yes, that's probably a deal breaker.

但包括用嘴呼吸在内的许多事情，其实都算不上不可妥协的问题。

But many of the things, including mouth breathing, are not deal breakers.

这又引出了你曾谈到的另一个观点：我们必须摒弃寻找‘理想型’的执念。对吧？我们可能完全搞错了真正重要的事情。

And this gets to something else you've talked about, which is that we have to get over this idea of finding the type. Right? That we might just be wrong about the kinds of things that really matter.

是的。这确实回到了我关于“像科学家一样约会”的理念。很多人认为他们完全清楚自己想要什么，只需要找到那个人。这是我工作中经常听到的说法。

Yeah. So that really goes back to my idea of date like a scientist. So so many people think I know exactly what I want. I just need to find them. That's a very common refrain with people that I work with.

问题在于他们认定'我知道自己钟意的类型，只需要找到那个人'。但他们没意识到，其实已经和这种类型约会过多次却无果而终。或许他们所谓的'理想型'从长远来看并不适合。我的工作就是帮助客户像科学家般约会，观察哪种类型的人能真正带来长期幸福。如果你是派对灵魂人物且自认为会被同类吸引——但事实证明...

And so the problem there is they've decided, oh, well, I know my type and I need to find that person. And what they don't understand is that they've actually dated that type many times and it hasn't worked out. And so maybe their so called type is not actually the best fit for them long term. And so a lot of the work that I did myself that I do with my clients is helping them date like a scientist and see what type of person does make them happiest long term. So if you are the life of the party person and you think you are drawn to that too, well, guess what?

这种组合至今未成功过。或许你真正需要的是更居家的伴侣，他们能平衡你的性格，让你脚踏实地，且不会与你争夺存在感。对于那些长期在爱情中挣扎的人，我总建议重新审视他们的'理想型'，鼓励科学式约会，探索其他可能带来长期幸福的类型。

It hasn't worked out for you so far. Maybe you actually need someone who's a bit more of a homebody because they balance you out, they ground you, and they're not competing with you for space. And so often when people have been struggling with love for a while, I really like to investigate their so called type and encourage them to date like a scientist and see if there's another type that ends up making them happier long term.

我注意到人们常有些看似不可妥协的标准，细想之下可能很肤浅。比如现在网上盛行'不找矮个子男生'的风气。这正符合你谈到的现象——我们是否该反思这些真是不可妥协的条件，还是比想象中更可商榷？

It also seems to me that people have these, like, kind of ideas of deal breakers that, like, when you really kind of look at them carefully, maybe seem, like, shallow. Like, I know on the Internet right now, there's a lot of, like, no short guys kind of vibe. And, like, that's just the kind of thing that you're talking about when it comes to this stuff that we might wanna see. Is this really a deal breaker, or might it be more permissible than we think?

没错。说到这个，过度关注身高正是我最反感的现象之一。作为'矮个子国王'的妻子，我强烈推荐这种组合。约会软件允许设置身高筛选功能...

Yeah. So okay. So going back to pet peeves, that is one of my pet peeves is when people are way too focused on height. And I can tell you as someone who's married to a short king, I highly recommend it. And what happens is that with dating apps, you can set filters, for example, height.

许多女性在创建Hinge档案时理所当然地想'找个高个子结婚挺好'，于是把筛选条件设为六英尺（约1.83米）以上。但她们不知道美国只有14%男性达到这个身高——这意味着自动过滤掉了86%的潜在对象。

So many women, when they're setting up their hinge profile, they just think, oh, height. Yeah. It'd be great to be married to someone who's tall, so I'll set my height filter at six feet or higher. But what they don't understand is that in The United States, only fourteen percent of men are six foot or higher. And so they are automatically filtering out 86% of potential matches.

后来她们在派对上举着手机问我：'Logan，我老公在哪？' 答案很简单：他根本不会出现在你的推荐列表里，因为被你筛选掉了。身高完美诠释了人们如何因肤浅的初始选择，无意中错失了遇见优秀伴侣的机会。

Then they meet me at a party and they hold up their phone and they say, Logan, where is he? Where's my husband? And it's like, yeah. Well, he's not even showing up because you filtered him out. And so I think height is a great example of how people make superficial initial choices, and then they don't understand that they're actually preventing themselves from meeting great people.

反之，如果同一个女人在酒吧里与一位男士面对面坐着，进行了愉快的交谈，然后他站起来身高只有五英尺九英寸（约1.75米），我不认为她会因此避之不及。我想她会明白，正如我们所说，人是体验型商品。如果那个男人让她感觉良好，谁还会在意他驾照上的身高数字呢？

Whereas if that same woman were at a bar sitting across from a guy and had a fantastic conversation, and then he stood up and he was five nine, I don't think that she would be running for the hills. I think that she would understand that we, as we said, are experiential goods. And if that guy made her feel good, who cares what the height is on his driver's license?

你指导过这么多人处理约会问题，你是否强烈感觉到运用这些行为科学策略真的对人们有帮助？

And so you've been coaching so many people with dating. Do you have the strong sense that kind of using these behavioral science strategies really helps people?

是的，绝对有帮助。我认为'约会盲点'这个概念非常有力量。我们总有些自认为阻碍自己的因素，但真正拖累我们的可能是我们完全没意识到的问题。初次接触客户时，我们会用整个第一节会话对他们的情感历史进行全面审计。

Yes. Absolutely. So I think this idea of dating blind spots is really powerful. So we all have things that we think are holding us back, but it's possible that the things that are actually holding us back are things that we don't have access to at all. And so when I first work with a client, we spend the first session doing a audit of their relationship history.

我们甚至从初中或高中阶段开始追溯。你是晚熟型吗？是连续单一伴侣型吗？作为白人学校里的南亚裔男生，这些经历如何累积影响你的自我认知和恋爱方式？

And we really even start at middle school or high school. So were you a late bloomer? Were you a serial monogamous? Were you a South Asian man at a majority white school? How did all these stories really add up to how you feel about yourself and how you've dated?

我在这些对话中寻找的是人们不断重复的行为模式。比如有人总是忽视危险信号——为什么他们会忽略这些警示？他们从这些不合适的关系中获得了什么？我真正想做的是避免给出他们朋友常说的那套'你很完美'的建议。

And so what I'm looking for in these conversations is patterns that these people keep making. So for example, somebody who ignores red flags. Why are they ignoring those red flags? What are they getting out of those relationships that are not a good fit? And what I really try to do is not give them the advice that all their friends give them, which is you're perfect.

不是世上没有优秀的人，爱情该来时自然会来。我更喜欢告诉他们：'你正在犯一系列策略性错误。我能帮你识别这些问题，制定改进方案。'

There's just nobody great out there. Like, love will happen to you when it happens. And I actually like to say to them, hey, you're making a series of strategic errors. I can help you identify what they are. I can give you a plan for how to overcome them.

我会监督执行确保你真正落实改变，然后与你共同庆祝每一个成功。

I can give you accountability so that you actually show up and make these changes. And then I'm going to celebrate your successes with you.

我很欣赏洛根如此努力地帮助我们破除恋爱迷思，并将科学方法引入寻爱之旅。我们已经探讨了很多内容，现在快速回顾她的核心建议。第一条建议：线下见面。如果你在交友软件上匹配到某人，尽快安排约会。约会时，跳过寒暄，深入交流。

I love that Logan is working so hard to help us overturn our relationship myths and that she's bringing science to our search for love. We've covered a lot of ground, so let's quickly recap her top tips. Tip number one, meet up in person. If you've matched with a person on an app, try to get on a date as soon as you can. And on that date, ditch the small talk and get to know each other more deeply.

第二条建议：别把初次约会当成工作面试。不要评估潜在伴侣的薪资、职业前景和人生目标，这些并非你想象的重要指标。第三条是洛根提出的'约会后八问'，用她的八个问题反思约会带给你的感受。

Tip number two is to stop confusing a first date with a job interview. Don't rate your prospective partner's salary, career opportunities, and life goals. Those things aren't the important metrics you think. The third tip is what Logan calls the post date eight. Ask yourself her eight questions about how a date made you feel.

如果你感到放松且充满活力，对方可能就是合适人选。第四条建议：保持趣味和幽默感，当你轻松俏皮时，反而能展现最好的自己。最后一条建议：放下那些小毛病，别因为对方喝汤出声或看电影大笑就否定这段关系。

If you're feeling relaxed and energized, that person's probably a keeper. Tip number four is to have fun and be goofy. You show off your best self when you're a little lighthearted and silly. And the final tip is to park those pet peeves. Don't write off a romantic partner just because they slurp their soup or laugh too loudly at the movies.

这些不过是漫长爱情道路上微不足道的小坑洼。随着情人节临近，我们将继续提供恋爱指南，并邀请两位心理学家加入讨论——他们通过浪漫喜剧电影情节这类意想不到的研究素材，寻找爱情的科学线索。下次《幸福实验室》节目，劳里·桑托斯博士与你再会。

Those are just insignificant potholes in what could be a long, long road of lifetime love. As Valentine's Day draws closer, we'll be continuing our how to advice on relationships, and we'll be joined by two psychologists who look for scientific clues to love and some unlikely research material, the plots of rom com movies. That's all next time on The Happiness Lab with me, doctor Laurie Santos.

作为人类，我们天生渴望知识。无论你是医疗从业者还是健康爱好者，都想聆听智者探讨医学。我是马修·弗兰克·瓦多医生，在《Curbsiders内科医学播客》与搭档——全美家庭医生保罗·尼尔森·威廉姆斯，邀请专家讨论肥胖、高血压、高胆固醇、糖尿病等常见议题，分享临床经验、革新性知识和冷幽默。订阅《Curbsiders内科医学播客》，让你聪明的头脑更睿智。各大播客平台均可收听。

You're a person and people like to know stuff. Maybe you're a health care provider or just health curious and you want to hear smart people talking about medicine. I'm doctor Matthew Frank Wado and on the Curbsiders Internal Medicine podcast with my cohost America's PCP doctor Paul Nelson Williams. We interview experts on common topics like obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes to bring you clinical pearls, practice changing knowledge, and bad puns. You're a smart person, so get smarter and subscribe to the Curbsiders internal medicine podcast wherever you get podcasts.

本节目由iHeart播客出品。

This is an iHeart podcast.