像那些快乐活到百岁的人一样饮食（与丹·比特纳一起）

这是一个iHeart播客。

This is an iHeart podcast.

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嘿，家长们。问个快速问题。你们上次赢得零食时间是什么时候？这是我在为我的新‘更快乐育儿’课程与父母们聊他们日常压力时，一个让我震惊的问题。从放学后厨房里的饥饿崩溃，到为孩子们找到不会让你感到内疚的午后零食，父母们在零食时间似乎都在挣扎。

Hey, parents. Quick question. When was the last time you won snack time? This was a problem that shocked me when I chatted with moms and dads about their daily stresses for my new happier parenting course. From hungry breakdowns in the kitchen after school to finding a midday treat for the kiddos that won't make you feel guilty, parents seem to be struggling when it comes to snack time.

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普希金。

Pushkin.

标准美式饮食正在扼杀我们。这是本期节目要介绍的书中一句尖锐的论断，这本书与我本季将分享的其他2025年最爱书籍有所不同。我的其他选择多是关于幸福研究的科普类书籍，但今天的推荐有些特别。这是一本名为《一锅料理：百岁长寿的100道食谱》的烹饪书。如果您是《幸福实验室》的粉丝，可能还记得《一锅料理》的作者。

The standard American diet is killing us. That's a stark line from the book I wanna tell you about in this episode, which is a bit different from the other works I'll be sharing in this season on my favorite books of 2025. My other choices are mostly science y type books related to the study of happiness, but today's pick is a bit different. It's a cookbook entitled One Pot Meals, 100 recipes to live till a 100. And the author of One Pot Meals someone you may remember if you're a fan of the happiness lab.

我是丹·布特尼。《纽约时报》畅销书作家，国家地理探险家，最重要的是——我是劳里·桑托斯的嘉宾，这是我最引以为豪的荣誉。

My name is Dan Buettner. I am a New York Times bestselling writer, a National Geographic explorer, and most significantly, I'm a guest of Lori Santos, which is my my proudest accolade.

他最著名的研究是关于所谓的'蓝色区域'，即世界上人们寿命最长、生活最幸福的地区。丹的研究表明，有许多文化因素促进健康与幸福，但他也发现食物似乎是重要因素之一，因此诞生了这本烹饪书。《一锅料理》的前提是：在饮食方面，美国绝非蓝色区域。正如丹在书中解释的，美国人正以空前比率遭受糖尿病和心脏病等慢性疾病困扰。他还分享了一个惊人数据：美国人平均比预期寿命早逝约十二年。

He's most well known for his work on what are called blue zones, the places around the world where people live the longest and happiest lives. Dan's research has shown that there are lots of cultural factors that promote health and happiness, but he's also found that food seems to be an important factor too, hence, a cookbook. The premise behind one pot meals is that America is definitely not a blue zone when it comes to what we eat. As Dan explains in his book, Americans are suffering from chronic illnesses like diabetes and heart disease at higher rates than ever. He also shared the scary statistic that Americans are dying on average about twelve years earlier than we should be.

天啊。但在《一锅料理》中，丹分享了大量使用全球蓝色区域食材的美味食谱。这些菜肴低糖、低盐、少加工，富含全谷物和植物成分，而且价格实惠。我非常喜爱丹的蓝色区域研究，所以拿到《一锅料理》时非常兴奋。

Yikes. But in One Pot Meals, Dan shares a whole host of tasty recipes that use the kinds of ingredients that people eat in blue zones across the globe. The dishes that result are low in sugar, salt, and other processed stuff and high in whole grains and plants. Plus, they're really cheap. I really love Dan's blue zone work, so I was excited to get my hands on one pot meals.

但我想与丹对话还有另一个原因。您知道吗？我最近刚过了一个以零结尾的重要生日——刚满50岁。

But there was another reason I was excited to talk to Dan. You see, I recently celebrated one of those big birthdays with a zero. I just turned 50.

加入半世纪俱乐部。

Join the half a century club.

这是一个你开始以完全不同方式思考长寿的时刻。40岁时感觉像是，哦，是啊，我变老了。但50岁就像是，嘿，你知道，这很重要。

It is a time when you start thinking about longevity in a really different way. 40 was like, oh, yeah. I'm getting old. But 50 is like, hey. You know, this this matters.

是的。我刚看到世界银行的一项研究显示，2000年的54岁人群认知水平相当于今天的71岁老人。所以在这个充满坏消息的世界里，71岁成了新的54岁。明白吗？所以当你50岁时，可能相当于超过38岁。

Yeah. I just saw a study from the World Bank that showed that 54 year olds in 2,000 have the same cognitive levels as a 71 year old today. So in this world of bad news, 71 is the new 54. You know? So turning 50, you're probably above 38.

我接受。有什么好处我都接受。

I'll take it. I'll take whatever I can get.

即使50岁是新的38岁，丹仍然认为我可以从尝试模仿蓝区人们的不同做法中受益。所以我请丹从头开始讲述。最初是什么激发了他的蓝区研究？

Even if 50 is the new 38, Dan still thinks I could benefit from trying to emulate what people do differently in blue zones. So I asked Dan to start at the beginning. What sparked his blue zone research in the first place?

大学毕业时，大多数人都在开启富有成效和有用的事业，而我却去骑自行车。我从阿拉斯加骑到阿根廷，从非洲顶端骑到底部，还环游了世界。那花了八年时间，创造了三项世界纪录，但这确实帮助我以一种乘坐达美航空头等舱的人无法吸收的方式理解世界。然后我一直想为国家地理工作很久了，那里有一位非常聪明的编辑说，你知道，我的探险很有趣，但国家地理学会寻找的是那些能够增加知识体系的探险。你知道，我们已经去过珠穆朗玛峰顶4000次了，如今那些都算是某种特技表演。

Graduating from university at a time when most people are launching into careers of productive and useful things, I went and rode my bike. I biked from Alaska to Argentina, top to bottom of Africa and around the world. That took eight years, set three world records, but it sure did help me understand the world in a way, you know, somebody taking a Delta one flight doesn't absorb. And then I've been wanting to work for National Geographic for a long time, and I had a very clever editor there who who said, you know, there my expeditions were interesting, but the expeditions they're looking for at the National Geographic Society are ones that add to the body of knowledge. You know, we've been to the top of Everest 4,000 times, and those are sort of sort of stunts these days.

所以这让我思考，我能否设计出一种真正增加知识体系的探索策略？于是我想出了这些探索任务，让在线观众指导专家团队解开谜团，从而利用集体智慧，让观众实际投票决定我们的探险队去哪里收集线索。我们进行了五次探险来帮助解决玛雅文明崩溃的原因。我们进行了一次探险来阐明人类起源，西方文明的起源。很多人认为是希腊，但实际上可能更多是土耳其。

So it got me thinking, could I devise a strategy for exploration that actually added to the body of knowledge? And I came up with these quests that let an online audience direct a team of experts to solve mystery, thereby harnessing the wisdom of the crowd and letting the audience actually vote to decide where our expedition team went to gather clues. And we did five expeditions to help solve why the Maya civilization collapsed. We did an expedition to illuminate human origins, the origins of Western civilization. Many people think that's Greece, but actually it's probably more Turkey.

我非常擅长与顶尖科学家建立联系和阅读学术论文。正如你所知，阅读学术论文就像学习第二语言。但一旦你精通了，它就为你打开了整个见解的世界，这是你在阅读二手解读时无法获得的。这最终引导我进入了蓝色区域的研究。

And I got very good at networking with top scientists and reading academic papers. As you well know, reading academic papers is like learning a second language. But once you get good at it, it opens up this whole world of insights. You don't have when you're reading secondhand interpretations of those papers. Then that led me eventually to blue zones.

你刚刚用了蓝色区域这个词。那么什么是蓝色区域？它是什么意思？

You just use that term blue zone. So what is a blue zone? What does that mean?

蓝色区域是一个经过人口统计学确认、地理上受限的区域，那里的人们寿命最长。但现在它已经发展成一场运动，成为一种生活方式，专注于营造你的环境，让你更有可能活得更久、更快乐。

A blue zone is a demographically confirmed, geographically confined area where people live the longest. But, now it's grown into a movement. It's sort of a way of life that focuses on setting up your surroundings so you're more likely to live longer and a happier life.

那么你通过蓝色区域工作试图解决的谜题是什么？那个大难题是什么？

And so what was the mystery you were trying to solve with the Blue Zone work? What's the big puzzle?

所以这实际上是对长寿进行逆向工程，我们基于几个普遍接受的假设。第一，丹麦双胞胎研究确定，我们寿命的长短只有大约20%是由基因决定的。另外80%是其他因素。这不是针对个人，而是针对人群的，你明白这一点。

So it's quite literally reverse engineering longevity and there's a few generally accepted assumptions that we work on. Number one, the Danish twin study established that only about 20% of how long we live is dictated by our genes. The other 80% is something else. That's not an individual, that's for a population. You understand that.

第二件事是，一个小型人口统计学家团队正在研究如何验证年龄，并确定人们可验证地寿命最长的地点。所以我推断，如果我们能找到世界上寿命最长的热点地区，然后寻找它们的共同点，这些共同点就能解释80%的长寿原因。这就是蓝色区域的基础。

And then the second thing is a small team of demographers were just figuring out how to authenticate ages and identify spots where people are living verifiably the longest. So I reasoned if we could find the longest of hotspots around the world and then look for their common denominators, that those common denominators would explain 80% of longevity. And that's the foundation of blue zones.

我的意思是，蓝色区域的工作其实开始已经有一段时间了。但你触及了如今人们经常谈论的一个话题，即所谓的健康寿命。寿命是我们活了多久，而健康寿命是指你以健康状态生活的时间长度。蓝色区域真正关注的是这一点。为什么健康寿命如此重要？

I mean, this the the blue zone work started now a while ago, honestly. But but you're hitting on something that folks are talking about a lot these days, this idea of what's called health span. So lifespan is kinda how long we live, but health span is this notion of how long do you live a kind of healthy life. The blue zones really focus on that. Why is health span so important?

好的。实际上，在又过了三年之后，我刚刚完成了一本关于健康寿命的书。先给大家提供一点背景信息。官方术语是健康调整预期寿命，缩写为HALE。在我最初进行蓝区研究时，这个概念还不存在。

Well, okay. I actually after three more years, I I'm just finishing a book on health span. And just to give you a little bit of background on that. So the official term is health adjusted life expectancy, which goes under the acronym HALE. And that didn't exist when I was first doing my original Blue Zone work.

但现在有一个庞大的科学家团队——全球疾病负担项目，约有一万名科学家，正在努力解决地球上的这个大问题：虽然预期寿命在延长，但我们却有更多老年人长期患病。这并没有给我们带来真正想要的——更多年的健康生活。健康调整预期寿命衡量的是预期寿命减去因慢性病（如心脏病和2型糖尿病）损失的年数，再减去因残疾损失的健康年数。这是一个复杂的综合体。在这个项目中，我找到了人们健康寿命最长的四个地区，并寻找它们的共同特征。

But now there's an enormous body of scientists called the Global Burden of Disease Project, about 10,000 scientists who are trying to figure out this big problem we have on Earth, which is life expectancy is going up, but us having more old people who are sicker for longer. So it's not getting us what we really want, which is more years of good life. So health adjusted life expectancy measures life expectancy minus years lost due to chronic disease like heart disease and type two diabetes minus years of full health loss to disability. So it's a big cluster of things. And, for this project, I found the four areas where people live the longest healthy lives and look for their common denominators.

在美国，普通人平均只能期望活到64岁，之后就会出现重大残疾或疾病。在美国只有64年的健康时光。而我发现有些地方的人们享有77年的完整健康生活。因此，我对这些特征集群、政策、个人干预措施，以及真正让基因普通的人比美国人多活12年的设计模式非常感兴趣。

In The United States an average person can only expect to live to age 64 before a major disability or disease comes on board. Only sixty four good years in The United States. I found places where people are enjoying seventy seven years of full life. So I'm really interested in the cluster of characteristics, the policies and the individual interventions and really the designs that are producing genetically average people who are living an extra twelve years more than Americans do.

那么你在哪些地方发现了这种情况？因为这正是你最初在《蓝区》书中确认的内容——那些具体的地点、城市，那里的人们寿命更长、更健康。

And so where were some of the places where you found that? Because that was what you first identified in the original Blue Zone book where these, like, literal locations, cities where people are living longer and more healthfully.

是的。最初的蓝区中，男性寿命最长的是意大利撒丁岛的努奥省地区。女性寿命最长的是日本冲绳。尼科亚半岛是中年死亡率最低的地区，这意味着像你这样的年龄，洛瑞，最有希望健康活到95岁。95岁大致是普通人的寿命上限。

Yeah. The original Blue Zones, longest lived men were in Sardinia, Italy, just one area called the Noro Province. Longest of women Okinawa, Japan. The Nicoya Peninsula is the area with the lowest rate of middle age mortality, which means people your age, Lori, have the best chance of reaching a healthy age 95. 95 is kind of the ceiling for the average human being.

有人说能让你活到100岁，那他们可能另有所图。但我们人类的设计基本上都能活到90多岁。像你这样的女性可能稍长一些，像我这样的男性稍短一些。但在尼科亚，他们享有最高的概率活到95岁。希腊的伊卡里亚岛几乎没有人患痴呆症，寿命比美国人长8年。

People say promising you to live to 100, they probably have their hand in your pocket, but we're all kind of designed to make it to our mid nineties. Women like you, maybe a little bit more. Men like me, a little bit less. But, in Nicoya, they they enjoy the best chance of reaching that age 95. Icaria, Greece, virtually without dementia, living eight years longer than Americans.

还有加利福尼亚的基督复临安息日会信徒，这个群体比加州同龄人多活约8年。这很有趣，因为它就在美国本土。

And then among the Seventh day Adventist California, we have a population who live about eight years longer than their California counterparts. So that's interesting because it's right here in The US.

我在你其他采访中听到你说，旅行能学到很多东西，因为我认为你在与人相遇等等。我的意思是，你一直是个健康的人，但我很好奇当你第一次去蓝区并见到那里的人时，有没有什么经历让你觉得，哇，这和美国的生活太不一样了。

And so one of the things I've heard you say in other interviews is that you you learn so much from travel because I think you're meeting people and stuff. I'm just I mean, you're always a healthy guy, but I'm curious when you first started going to the blue zones and meeting people. Like, any experiences that struck you of, like, oh my gosh. This is so different than, like, my life in The US.

我有幸采访了近500位百岁老人。在开始之前，我并不太喜欢老年人，也害怕变老。但我真的爱上了这些人。我注意到，能活到100岁的人往往既充满好奇心又很有趣。那些脾气暴躁的人似乎已经被基因库或无论如何被筛选掉了。

So I've I've had the privilege of interviewing almost 500 year olds, 500 centenarians. And I didn't much care for old people and I feared getting older, before I started. And I really fell in love with these people. People are making it to a 100, I've noticed tend to be interested and interesting. The grump seemed to be selected out of the gene pool or out of the pool anyway.

这对我产生了影响。它让我不仅欣赏老年人，也欣赏变老这个过程。耶鲁大学的贝卡·利维发现，对衰老持消极态度的人实际上寿命更短，而这项工作给了我欣赏老年人甚至老年阶段的礼物。要知道，随着年龄增长，你实际上会变得更快乐。我意识到，花时间陪伴家人、精心经营直接的社交网络，以及生活在适宜步行的社区，不仅对寿命的长度，而且对生活质量都是最重要的因素。

And it has done for me. It's given me this, appreciation for older people, but also an appreciation for getting older. This Becca Levy from Yale has found that people with a poor attitude towards aging actually live shorter lives and this work has given me the gift of appreciating older people and even old age. Know, you actually get happier as you get older. And, I realized that, spending time with family, really curating my immediate, social network, and living in a walkable community are the biggest things I can do for not only quantity but quality of life.

我真的有意识地把我的生活安排成那样。

And I've really been conscious about setting up my life like that.

所以当现在很多人谈论长寿和健康寿命，或者叫什么？健康调整生命年。是预期寿命。健康调整预期寿命。当人们谈论这个时，有时候他们就像你说的，有点想掏你的口袋。

And so when a lot of people these days talk about kind of longevity and health span or what is it? Health adjusted years for life. It's a life expectancy. Health adjusted life expectancy. So when so when folks are talking about that, sometimes they kind of have their hand in your pocket, as you said.

对吧？比如，如果你和很多影响者谈论延长寿命，你会听到很多关于补充剂、个别解决方案、锻炼计划等等。我如此喜爱你的工作的一个原因是你某种程度上反驳了这一点。你认为这些快速修复方法并不像我们假设的那么有效。你这是什么意思？

Right? Like, if you talk to a lot of influencers and you talk about increasing your lifespan, you'll hear lots of things about supplements and individual fixes and workout plans and things like that. And one of the reasons I love your work so much is that you've kind of pushed back against this. You've argued that these kind of quick fixes don't work as well as we assume. What do you mean there?

嗯，有一个840亿美元的抗衰老产业，却未能生产出哪怕一种药丸、补充剂、激素或干细胞，被证明可以逆转、停止甚至减缓人类衰老。你知道，有一些理论基础，但当你服用这些东西时，你通常被承诺的是无法兑现的东西，而且你是在用自己的身体做实验。比如干细胞，没有监管规定它们来自哪里、输送介质是什么，可能存在既输送干细胞也输送感染的介质。我在迈阿密有个邻居去中美洲接受干细胞治疗，就再也没回来。

Well, there's an $84,000,000,000 antiaging industry out there that has failed to produce even one pill or supplement or hormone or stem cell that has shown to reverse, stop, or even slow aging in humans. You know, there's some theoretical base, but but when you take these things, you're usually being promised something that can't deliver and you're performing an experiment on your own body. You know, I like to point out stem cells. There's no regulation of where they come from, the medium they're delivered in, that there could be a medium that delivers infection as well as stem cells. I have a neighbor in Miami who went down to Central America for stem cell treatment and he never came back.

他发生了栓塞并去世了。所以我对那些东西不太感冒。你知道，我总是挑战任何人，让他们给我展示一个行为干预措施，比如某种饮食、锻炼计划或补充剂方案，能在两年后对超过个位数百分比的人群持续有效。你找不到这样的例子。所以，你知道，这是个很棒的商业计划，因为每隔一两年，我们承诺更好的健康、更轻的体重或更多的肌肉，但它并没有兑现，可人们仍然想要，并且会尝试新东西。

He embolized and died. So I'm not a big fan of those. You know, I always defy anybody to show me one behavioral modification intervention, say a diet or an exercise program or supplement regimen that works for more than single digit percentage of people over two years. You can't find it. So, you know, it's a great business plan because every year or two, you know, we promise better health or less weight or, you know, more muscle and it doesn't deliver but people still want it and they'll try the new thing.

而且，那些享受额外十二年健康寿命的人群不是这样做的。所以我试图阐明长寿的真正特征或秘诀。

And, that's not the way populations who are enjoying an extra twelve good years, that's not the way they do it. So I'm trying to illuminate the real characteristics or secrets of longevity.

所以我很好奇这些不同的区域发生了什么。我知道你已经确定了他们可能做的四件不同的事情来帮助延长寿命。那些是什么？

So I'm curious what's going on in these different zones. I know you've identified four different things that they might be doing that's helping them live longer. What are those things?

第一，如果你想知道一个百岁老人或活到100岁的人吃了什么才活到100岁，你必须知道她小时候、中年时以及最近吃了什么。你不能只问他们，你知道，你现在吃什么？因为大多数人记不起两周前周二午餐吃了什么。那他们怎么会记得小时候吃了什么呢？所以为了弄清楚这一点，我们找到了过去八十年里在所有五个蓝色区域进行的大约155项饮食调查。

Number one, if you want to know what a centenarian or a 100 year old ate to live to be 100, you have to know what she ate as a little girl and middle age and lately. You can't just ask them, you know, what are you eating? Because most people can't remember what they had two weeks ago Tuesday for lunch. So how are they gonna remember what they ate as a little kid? So to get at that, we found about a 155 dietary surveys done in all five blue zones over the past eighty years.

哈佛的沃尔特·韦林，他曾经负责那里的公共卫生学院，他帮我做了一项叫做荟萃分析的工作，以了解人们随时间吃了什么并取平均值。你会发现他们主要吃全食物饮食，大约90%到95%的食物是植物。主要是全谷物、绿叶蔬菜、块茎如红薯、坚果，而世界上每个长寿饮食的基石是豆类。人们没有意识到，如果你每天吃一杯豆子，预计可以延长大约四年的寿命。所以第一点，全植物性饮食。

Harvard's Walter Wellin, who used to run the school of public health there, he helped me do something called a meta analysis to see what people ate over time and sort of average it out. And you see they're eating mostly a whole food diet and about 90% of what they eat, 90 to 95, is plants. It's mostly whole grains, greens, tubers like sweet potatoes, nuts, and the cornerstone of every longevity diet in the world is beans. People don't realize if you eat a cup of beans a day, it predicts about four extra years of life expectancy. So number one, whole plant based diet.

第二，他们不锻炼，但他们生活在每次去工作、朋友家或外出吃饭时都需要步行的地方。他们的房子里没有装满机械便利设施来做厨房工作、家务和院子工作。他们用手工完成。他们后院有花园。所以当涉及到运动时，他们无意识的决定促使他们整天、每天都保持活动。

Number two, they don't exercise, but they live in places where every time they go to work or a friend's house or out to eat, at occasions a walk. Their houses aren't full of mechanical conveniences to do kitchen work and housework and yard work. They do it by hand. They have gardens out back. So their unconscious decisions when it comes to movement nudges them into activity all day long, every day.

我们估算，这相当于每天大约9000到11000步，而他们自己并没有意识到。普通美国人每天大约走4000步。然后，在所有蓝色区域，都有表达人生目标的词汇。当我第一次在2005年左右写这本书时，人们看着我说‘人生目标’，觉得那是虚无缥缈、不切实际的东西。

The equivalent, we figured, of about nine to 11,000 steps a day without thinking about it. Average American gets about 4,000 steps a day. And then there's vocabulary for purpose in all these blue zones. And when I first wrote the book in the mid two thousand, two thousand five, people looked at me and said purpose. It was woo woo airy fairy.

但我们现在从国家老龄化研究所的研究中得知，能够清晰表达自己为何早起的人，比那些生活中没有方向的人大约多活七到八年。也许是存在主义压力，或者是因为你不太可能按时服药或锻炼。最后一点是社交。这些人生活在整天都能碰到朋友的环境中，往往生活在大家庭里。因此，在美国这里成为流行病的孤独问题，在蓝色区域并不存在。

But we now know from studies done by the National Institutes on Aging that people who can articulate why they wake up in the morning live about seven to eight years longer than people who are rudderless in life. Maybe it's existential stress or maybe it's you're less likely to take your pills or get exercise. And then the last one is socializing. These people live in environments where they're bumping into friends all day long, tend to live in extended families. So this loneliness, an epidemic here in The United States is not a problem in Blue Zones.

他们只是出生在一个从出生起就拥有丰富社交联系的社会中。

They're just born into a society where they're richly socially connected from birth on.

现在是短暂休息的时间，但我马上回来，问问丹我们如何将蓝色区域的生活方式带入我们的家中，无论我们住在哪里。《幸福实验室》马上回来。

It's time for a quick break, but I'll be back in just a moment to ask Dan how we can bring the Blue Zone lifestyle into our homes, wherever we happen to live. The Happiness Lab will be right back.

在当今超级竞争的商业环境中，优势属于那些更努力、行动更快、并提升所有工具水平的人。T-Mobile深知这一点。根据Ookla速度测试专家的数据，他们现在是最佳网络，并利用该网络推出Supermobile，这是第一个也是唯一一个结合智能性能、内置安全性和无缝卫星覆盖的商业计划。使用Supermobile，您的性能、安全性和覆盖范围都得到超级提升。借助实时适应的网络，您的业务即使在需求高峰时期也能保持峰值运营。

In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network according to the experts at an Ookla speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity even in times of high demand.

借助首个全国性5G高级网络的内置安全性，您可以为您的团队和客户保护私人数据的隐私。通过世界上最大的卫星到移动星座的无缝覆盖，您的整个团队即使离线也能发短信并保持更新。这就是您的业务超级提升。了解更多信息，请访问supermobile.com。在美国大多数能看到天空的户外区域，兼容设备可实现无缝覆盖。

With built in security on the first nationwide five g advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile, Constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in The US where you can see the sky.

最佳网络基于Ookla对Speedtest Intelligence数据2025年1月的分析。

Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 01/2025.

AutoTrader由AutoIntelligence驱动，这是一种超个性化的购车方式。AutoTrader的工具与您的确切预算和偏好同步，为您量身定制购车体验。预算功能让您输入信息以查看符合您价格区间的列表。搜索和库存帮助您精准找到梦想之车。您可以选择新车或二手车、车型以及功能，如发动机大小、颜色，甚至是否想要拖车挂钩。

AutoTrader is powered by AutoIntelligence, the hyper personalized way to buy a car. AutoTrader's tools sync with your exact budget and preferences to tailor the car shopping experience totally to you. Budgeting lets you input your info to see listings in your price range. Search and inventory helps zero in on your dream car. You can choose from new or pre owned, the style of the car, and the features like engine size, color, all the way down to whether you want a trailer hitch.

尽管挑剔选择吧，不用担心无休止地滚动浏览。由汽车智能驱动的Auto Trader只会根据您的预算和需求展示车辆，价格信息会告诉您哪些挂牌是最划算的交易。这样您无需讨价还价就能感觉像赢得了谈判。您甚至可以选择交易完成方式：在线完成、到经销商处办理，或两者结合进行。

Go ahead and get picky. Don't worry about scrolling endlessly. Auto Trader powered by auto intelligence only shows you vehicles based on what you can afford and what you want, and pricing shows you which listings are the best deal. So you can feel like you're winning the negotiation without negotiating. You can even choose how to close the deal, online, at the dealership, or a little of both.

由汽车智能驱动的Autotrader让购车过程不再繁琐。立即尝试，访问autotrader.com找到您的理想座驾。秋季正当时，正是用既好看又舒适的单品更新衣橱的绝佳时机。幸运的是，Quince让您轻松展现精致、保持温暖并节省大笔开支，同时不妥协品质。

Autotrader powered by auto intelligence makes the process of buying a car less of a process. Try it today. Visit autotrader.com to find your perfect ride. Fall is in full swing and is the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality.

Quince拥有您秋季所需的所有高端必备单品。Quince的蒙古羊绒全拉链连帽衫几乎参与了我每一个秋季周末活动，但我也一直在关注他们超级柔软的抓绒拉链连帽衫来换换风格。通过与道德顶级工厂直接合作，Quince省去中间环节，以类似品牌一半的价格提供奢华品质的单品。Quince可以成为您的一站式商店，无论您需要衣橱、厨房甚至家中的物品。用Quince经久耐用的经典单品，保持这个秋季的经典与舒适。

Quince has all the elevated essentials that you need for fall. Quince's Mongolian cashmere full zip hoodie has been pretty much part of my every fall weekend activity, but I've also been eyeing their super soft fleece zip up hoodie to mix it up a bit. By partnering directly with Ethical top tier factories, Quince cuts out the middleman to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. Quince can become your one stop shop, whether you need pieces for your closet, your kitchen, or even around the house. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from Quince.

访问quince.com/happiness，订单即可享受免费送货和365天退货服务。那就是quince.com/happiness，获得免费送货和365天退货。quince.com/happiness。探险家、研究员、播客主持人，如今还是烹饪书作者的丹·布特纳花费多年时间试图揭开蓝区的秘密——那些世界各地当地人寿命更长、生活更幸福的地方。丹从蓝区学到的一个惊人事实是，那里活到九十多岁的居民似乎并非刻意努力延长寿命。

Go to quince.com/happiness for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. That's quince.com/happiness to get free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/happiness. Explorer, researcher, podcaster, and now cookbook author Dan Buettner has spent years trying to unlock the secrets of Blue Zones, those places around the world where locals live longer and happier lives. One of the striking things Dan has learned about Blue Zones is that the inhabitants there who live well into their nineties don't seem to be making a conscious effort to prolong their lives.

请记住，这些蓝区中没有哪个地方的人们是在刻意追求长寿。在美国，我们往往认为健康和长寿之路是通过找到一个方案，调动资源购买它，找到纪律和专注力来坚持执行。但这并不奏效。在蓝区，他们不是在追求健康和长寿。而是自然而然获得的。

Remember, none of these places, these Blue Zones, are people trying to live a long time. In America, we tend to think the road to health and longevity is achieved by finding a program, mustering the resources to buy it, finding the discipline and the presence of mind to keep at it. But that doesn't work. In blue zones, they're not pursuing health and longevity. It ensues.

他们生活的环境无形中促使他们多活动、吃得更好、更多社交，而无需真正去思考它。于是我开始思考，如果世界上最长寿的人是因为他们的环境而如此，那么最幸福的人呢？因此，我与世界价值调查和盖洛普的世界民意调查合作，查看了覆盖约95%全球人口的数据，并说服他们首先告诉我世界上哪些地方的人们享有最高的生活满意度、最积极的情绪（即当下的幸福感）以及最强烈的目标感。他们发给我的数据显示，在亚洲，生活满意度最高的是新加坡，而不是许多人误以为的不丹。在美洲，结果显示拥有最积极情绪的地区是...

They live in environments where they're nudged to move more, eat better, socialize more without really thinking about it. So I got to thinking, well, if the longest of people in the world are doing so because of their environment, how about the happiest people? So I worked with the World Value Survey and the World Poll by Gallup and, I looked at worldwide data, it covers about 95% of the human population and convinced them to first tell me where in the world people are enjoying the most life satisfaction, the most positive affect, which is moment to moment happiness, and the most purpose. And they sent me, in Asia anyway, highest, life satisfaction was in Singapore, not Bhutan as many people mistakenly believe. In The Americas, it turns out the area with the most positive affect.

换句话说，他们日复一日最享受生活。事实上，世界上每GDP美元产生更多幸福感的地方是哥斯达黎加的一个叫卡塔戈的地方。然后回到斯堪的纳维亚，丹麦一个叫奥胡斯的地方，我们发现那是那里最幸福的地区。我知道最近芬兰以微弱优势略微超过丹麦，但丹麦的这个地区比整个芬兰更幸福。所以我实际上去了那里，试图找出共同点，探寻人们更幸福的原因。

In other words, they enjoy life most from day to day. In fact, the place that produces more happiness per GDP dollar than any place else in the world is a place called Cartago, Costa Rica. And then back to Scandinavia, a place called Auchus, Denmark, we found that was the happiest region there. I know lately Finland is sort of outperforming by a tiny margin Denmark, but this region within Denmark is is happier than the country of Finland. So I actually went there to try to find the common denominators and look for why people are happier.

而且我不得不告诉你，劳里，他们绝对没有在做积极心理学练习。

And in no case, I hate to tell you, Laurie, are they doing positive psychology exercises.

不仅仅是因为他们在听这个播客。你是这个意思吗，丹？

It's not just because they're listening to this podcast. Is that what you're telling me, Dan?

嗯，你知道，我热爱积极心理学，但大众中并没有人在写感恩日记，或者练习感恩、品味美好，这些其实都是好主意。我知道有小样本研究显示这些方法短期内有效，但长期来看——你知道，我们希望长久地幸福，而不仅仅是在思考它的时候。所以，我更倾向于关注那些系统，即他们周围环境中那些与幸福同时存在，或者我认为是产生幸福的要素。

Well, you know, I love positive psychology, but nobody in mass is writing journalists or they're practicing gratitude or savoring or, you know, these things that are good ideas. And I know they've been shown with small sample sizes to work in the short run, but as a long term, you know, we want to be happy for a long time, not just for as long as we think about it. So, you know, I tend to pay attention to the systems, the elements of their surroundings that are coinciding or I would argue producing happiness.

那么你发现了什么？在创造幸福方面，这些系统有什么不同之处？

And so what did you find? What are these systems doing differently when it comes to producing happiness?

嗯，我们从政策开始说起。《世界幸福报告》在汇集了所有这些全球数据后指出，在国家层面上，幸福的最大驱动因素。GDP很重要。你知道，我们需要足够的钱来满足食物、住所、医疗保健和一些流动性。在幸福方面，我们偶尔也需要能够犒劳自己。

Well, we'll start with policies. So the World Happiness Report, when they suck in all of this worldwide data, they tell you the biggest driver of happiness on on a on a national level. GDP is important. You know, we need enough money for food, shelter, health care, some mobility. We also need to be able to treat ourselves once in a while when it comes to happiness.

但钱太多之后，金钱实际上并不会带来太多幸福。然而，平等与幸福高度相关。信任。我能信任我的邻居吗？我能信任警察吗？

But after too much money, then money doesn't really bring much happiness. But equality, very highly associated with happiness. Trust. Can I trust my neighbor? Can I trust the police?

我能信任政治家吗？结果发现，健康预期寿命是预测幸福的一个重要指标。所以你看看像丹麦这样的地方，那里不一定有非常高的巅峰体验或者狂喜之类的东西，但人们不必担心生病了会怎样。他们的医疗体系从摇篮到坟墓都照顾着他们。他们不必担心是否有足够的钱送孩子上学或上大学？

Can I trust politicians? It turns out that healthy life expectancy is a big predictor of happiness. So you look at places like Denmark where there's not necessarily really high highs or, you know, ecstasy or something that but people don't have to worry about what happens if I get sick. Their health care system takes care of them from cradle to grave. They don't have to worry about do I have enough money to send my kids to school or to college?

每个人都得到了保障。他们不必担心我老了退休后会发生什么。所以很多美国人担心的事情，至少是收入最低的25%人群所担心的，在那个文化中是完全不存在的。

Everybody's covered. They don't have to worry about what happens when I get old and retire. So a lot of the things that Americans worry about, at least, you know, the lower 25% income people, are completely absent in that culture.

这些文化似乎也有很多自然建立社交联系的方式。那种社交联系几乎是自然而然产生的。比如，斯堪的纳维亚国家工作时间更短，有更多公共空间让人们外出交流。我们是否知道这在多大程度上影响了不同地方人们的幸福感？

It also seems like those cultures have a lot of ways to get in social connection naturally. That social connection kind of ensues. Like, less hours at work in the Scandinavian countries, more public spaces for people to kinda go out and connect. Do we know how much that is affecting people's happiness in different places?

嗯，某种程度上是可以进行分析的。但按重要性排序，我会说在新加坡和丹麦，信任是第一位的。第二是安全感。安全感比自由更重要。我知道我们是一个痴迷自由的国家，但实际上在幸福感方面，更重要的是我们的孩子可以外出玩耍，我们可以安心地在街上行走。

Well, it's it's possible to sort of slice it out somewhat. But in rank order, I would say in Singapore and Denmark, I would say it's trust as number one. Number two, it's safety. Safety is more important than freedom. I know we're a country obsessed with freedom, but actually when it comes to happiness, it's more important that our kids can go out and play, and we can feel like we can walk on the street.

我们不会担心房子会被闯入。这两个地方都非常安全。全民医疗保健减少了很多对生病的担忧。但说到你的观点，在1975年，丹麦或哥本哈根还是一个交通拥堵的城市，压力大，出行更危险，空气差。顺便说一下，空气质量也与幸福感有关。

We're not nervous that our house is gonna get broken into. And both of those places, they're very safe. Universal health care reduces a lot of the worry about what happens if I'm going to get sick. But to your point, so in 1975, Denmark or Copenhagen was a traffic clog city, High stress, more dangerous to make your way through, bad air. By the way, the quality of air is associated with happiness too.

所以空气差，幸福感就低。在哥本哈根，一位名叫扬·盖尔的设计师、环境设计师，打造了第一个适宜步行和骑行的城市。现在哥本哈根大约55%的出行都是步行或骑自行车完成的。所以危险消失了，压力消失了，长途通勤也消失了。我们从丹尼尔·卡尼曼那里知道，我们日常最不快乐的事情就是通勤。

So bad air, less happiness. So in Copenhagen, guy named Jan Gell, a designer, an environment designer, did the first walkable bikeable city. And now about 55% of all trips taken across Copenhagen are done on foot or done by bicycle. So gone is the danger, gone is the stress, gone is the long commute. We know from Daniel Kahneman, the least happy thing we do on a day to day basis is our commute.

这样做的结果是，人们每天不知不觉就完成了相当于约9000步的运动量，因为步行上班或骑车去杂货店更方便。所以这是一个人们无意中做着那些能带来幸福感的事情的环境。

And what you get out of the deal is people are getting the equivalent of about 9,000 steps a day without thinking about it because it's just easier to walk to work or it's easier to bike to the grocery store. So it's this environment where people are mindlessly doing the things that yield happiness.

所以获得这些好处的一种方式似乎是搬到这些地方去。对吧？你知道，如果我搬到斯堪的纳维亚，我就能享受到所有这些适宜步行的城市。对吧？如果我搬到新加坡，也许我的生活满意度就会自然而然地提升。

So it seems like one way that you can get these benefits is to move to these places. Right? You know, if I move to Scandinavia, you know, I'm gonna get access to all these walkable cities. Right? If I move to Singapore, maybe I'll kind of have my life satisfaction sort of ensue.

如果你的整个文化都在这么做会容易得多，但如果你无法搬到一个新城市，我们也不是完全无计可施。

It's much easier if your whole culture is doing it, but we're not totally screwed if you're unable to move to a new city.

首先，为了强调这一点，有几项研究追踪了从东南亚和非洲不幸福地区移民到加拿大这个幸福之地的人，或是从苏联集团国家移民到丹麦的人。这些人，他们不会改变性别。年龄基本不变。教育水平也基本不变。宗教信仰或性取向也不会改变。

Well, first, you know, just to drive home the point, there's been a few studies that have followed immigrants that moved from unhappy places in Southeast Asia and Africa to Canada, which is a happy place, or move from Soviet bloc countries to Denmark. Those people, they don't change sex. They don't change age very much. They don't change education level very much. They don't change religious or sexual orientation.

但在一年内，他们报告的幸福水平就与收养他们的家园相当，这通常意味着他们的幸福感翻倍。我在学术文献中还没见过有什么能带来幸福感翻倍的方法。而这里，他们所做的只是改变环境。所以你会对自己说，我无法搬家。但如果你查看人口普查数据，会发现美国人平均一生搬家超过10次。

But within one year, they are reporting the happiness level of their adoptive home, which often represents a doubling of their happiness. And I'm not aware of anything in the academic literature that can produce a doubling of happiness. Here, all they're doing is moving environment. So you say to yourself, well, I I can't move. And if you look at census data, it shows that the average American moves over 10 times in their life.

这给了我们10次机会搬到会带来幸福的地方。有一个叫做盖洛普幸福指数的指标，告诉我们美国哪些地方的人更幸福。还有步行指数，显示人们更多步行上班的地方和空气质量更好的地方。即使在城市内部，我现在从明尼阿波利斯向你讲话，我们有些邮政编码区域的平均寿命比最差的社区高出13年。你不应该轻易否定搬家的想法，因为它效果显著。

And that gives us 10 opportunities to move to a place where happiness will ensue. And there's something called the the Galp well-being index, which tells us where in America people are happier. And, the walk score where people are walking to work more and where air quality is better. And even within cities, I'm right now coming to you from Minneapolis, and we have ZIP codes where the life expectancy is thirteen years higher than in the worst neighborhood. You you don't wanna dismiss the idea of moving out of hand because it's so powerful.

所以自2009年2月以来，我的日常工作就是和我的公司与约70个不同城市合作，帮助它们改变环境，为人们创造成功条件，或者我喜欢称之为为生活而设计。我们帮助这些城市调整政策，优先选择健康食品而非垃圾食品和垃圾食品营销，优先考虑行人和骑行者而非机动车驾驶者，优先考虑非吸烟者而非吸烟者。顺便说一句，非吸烟者更幸福。然后我们对所有餐厅、杂货店、工作场所、学校和教堂都有一个认证流程或项目，让它们能以我们知道可能产生更高幸福感和更好健康的方式优化设计和政策。我们还为个人提供一个项目，给他们清单，让他们回家设置家居环境， gently引导他们养成更好的行为习惯。

So my my daytime job since 02/2009, my company and I have worked with about 70 different cities to help them change their environment to set people up for success or design for life, I like to think of. So we help these cities change their policies to favor healthy food over junk food and junk food marketing, to favor the pedestrian and cyclist over the motorist, and favor the nonsmoker over the smoker. By the way, nonsmokers are happier. And then we have a certification process or program for all the restaurants, grocery stores, workplaces, schools, and churches so that they can optimize their designs and their policies in ways that we know are likely to produce higher happiness and better health. And then we have also a program for individuals which gives them checklists to go into their home and set up their homes to nudge them into better behaviors.

我们帮助他们找到志同道合的健康人士。我们知道你与谁交往会显著影响你的饮食方式、幸福感、孤独感、吸烟量和饮酒量等。所以我们想提升你的社交圈。最后，我们为人们提供目标研讨会，让他们了解自己的价值观、喜欢做什么以及能贡献什么。然后我们确保有实现这些的途径。

We help them find like minded people who are healthy. We know that who you hang out with measurably influences how you're going to eat, how happy you feel, how lonely you feel, how much you smoke, how much you drink, etc. So we want to upgrade your social circle. And finally, we give people a purpose workshop so they know what their values and that what they like to do and what they can contribute. And then we make sure there's an outlet for that.

我们已经证明，如果我们能实施政策层面的改变，并对场所进行为期五年的认证，那么根据盖洛普这个第三方数据，平均寿命会上升，肥胖率会下降，医疗成本会降低，幸福感会提升，并且可以说每个人都满意。这实际上不是通过逼迫人们改变饮食、跑马拉松或跑去中美洲接受干细胞治疗来实现的。仅仅是设置好他们的环境，让他们在数月、数年，甚至现在至少有一个案例是数十年的时间里，每天的无意识决定都稍微好一点。

We've shown that if we can do the policy people and then places the certification for five years, that according to Gallup, this is a third party, life expectancy goes up, obesity goes down, health care costs go down, happiness goes up, and, everybody's satisfied, so to speak. This actually works not by hounding people to change their diet or, you know, go run a marathon or run down to Central America and take stem cells. Simply setting up their environment so their unconscious decisions are slightly better every day for months, years, and and at least one case now, decades.

那么请给我举个例子，说说你在哪个城市实施了这些措施，以及他们做出的一些具体改变。因为我觉得你们能如此迅速地做出这些改变，这一点非常吸引人。

And so what's give me an example of a city where you've done this and, like, some of the specific changes they've made. Because I find the fact that you can make these changes so quickly quite fascinating.

嗯，快是相对的。我的意思是，大家都希望几个月内看到成效。但这需要五年时间。我们最大的项目是在德克萨斯州的沃斯堡市，那里大约有一百万人口。

Well, quick is, I mean, relative. Mean, everybody wants to see it in months. It takes five years. So our biggest city was Fort Worth, Texas. There's about a million people there.

城市的步行和骑行便利性略有提升。我们认证了约500家餐厅，确保人们能获得全植物性饮食选择，而不仅仅是牛排。约三分之二的学校获得了蓝区认证。我们将汽水从自动售货机中移除，并改变了默认设置，让小学生不再在走廊和教室里进食。在市中心，我们筹集资金为便利店安装了冷藏柜，改变了原本是食物荒漠的状况。

They became marginally more walkable and bikeable. They certified about 500 restaurants that so we made sure that there were places for people to go get whole plant based options and not just steak. About two thirds of the schools became Blue Zone certified. We got the soda pops out of their vending machines, and we changed the default so elementary school kids are not eating in hallways and classrooms. In the inner city, we raised money to put coolers in in these convenience stores and what was otherwise a food desert.

突然间，人们有了购买新鲜水果和蔬菜的途径。结果证明，这对便利店店主和当地居民来说都是巨大的福音。我们并不依赖——我还可以继续列举。我们实施了大约40种不同的干预措施。我们让吸烟变得更困难。

Now all of a sudden, there was a way for people to, buy fresh fruits and vegetables. And it turns out that was a huge bonanza, for both the the convenience store owner and the local people. So we don't rely on I could go on. There were about 40 different interventions. We made smoking harder.

我们让他们改变了默认规则，室内外都禁止吸烟。所有这些措施使得体重指数（BMI）下降了3%，该市与盖洛普合作估算，这些微小的改变每年为他们节省了2.5亿美元的预期医疗成本。

There was we got them to change the default, so there was no smoking indoors or outdoors. So this all produced a a a 3% drop in BMI, and the city itself working with Gallup figured we saved them a quarter of a billion dollars in projected health care cost every year because of these little micro changes.

我一直很喜欢和丹聊天，但我们还没谈到今天我请他上节目的主要原因——解释他如何将蓝区思维延伸至他的新烹饪书中。所以我们将在休息后马上转向这个话题。

I always love chatting with Dan, but we haven't yet gotten to the main reason I wanted to bring him on the show today to explain how he's extended his blue zone thinking into his new cookbook. So we'll turn to that right after the break.

在当今超级竞争的商业环境中，优势属于那些更努力、行动更快、并不断提升所有工具效能的人。T-Mobile深谙此道。根据Ookla速度测试专家的数据，他们现在是最佳网络提供商，并正利用这一网络推出Supermobile——首个也是唯一一个结合智能性能、内置安全性和无缝卫星覆盖的商业计划。借助Supermobile，您的性能、安全性和覆盖范围都将得到超级提升。实时自适应的网络确保您的业务即使在需求高峰时期也能保持巅峰运营状态。

In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network according to the experts at Oopla speed test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security, and seamless satellite coverage. With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged. With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity even in times of high demand.

通过全国首个5G Advanced网络内置的安全功能，您可以为个人、团队和客户保护隐私数据的安全。借助全球最大的卫星到移动通信网络Constellation提供的无缝覆盖，即使在没有信号的地方，您的整个团队也能发送短信并保持更新。这就是您业务的超级加速器。了解更多请访问supermobile.com。在美国大多数能看到天空的户外区域，兼容设备均可获得无缝覆盖。

With built in security on the first nationwide five g advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients. And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite to mobile, Constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid. That's your business, supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com. Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in The US where you can see the sky.

最佳网络基于Ookla对Speedtest智能数据2025年1月的分析。

Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence Data 01/2025.

AutoTrader由汽车智能系统驱动，提供超个性化的购车方式。AutoTrader的工具会根据您的确切预算和偏好进行同步，为您量身定制购车体验。预算功能让您输入信息后即可查看符合价格区间的车辆清单。搜索和库存功能帮助您精准定位梦想之车。您可以选择新车或二手车、车型风格以及发动机排量、颜色等配置，甚至细化到是否需要拖车挂钩。

AutoTrader is powered by Auto Intelligence, the hyper personalized way to buy a car. AutoTrader's tools sync with your exact budget and preferences to tailor the car shopping experience totally to you. Budgeting lets you input your info to see listings in your price range. Search and inventory helps zero in on your dream car. You can choose from new or pre owned, the style of the car, and the features like engine size, color, all the way down to whether you want a trailer hitch.

尽管挑剔选择吧。无需担心无限滚动浏览。由汽车智能驱动的AutoTrader只会根据您的支付能力和需求展示车辆。价格功能会显示哪些清单最划算，让您无需议价就能获得谈判胜利的感觉。您还可以选择在线、到店或线上线下结合的方式完成交易。

Go ahead and get picky. Don't worry about scrolling endlessly. Auto Trader powered by auto intelligence only shows you vehicles based on what you can afford and what you want. And pricing shows you which listings are the best deal, so you can feel like you're winning the negotiation without negotiating. You can even choose how to close the deal, online, at the dealership, or a little of both.

由汽车智能驱动的Autotrader让购车过程不再繁琐。立即尝试，访问autotrader.com寻找您的完美座驾。本节目由BetterHelp赞助。社交联系是预测个人幸福感的重要指标，部分原因在于我们需要支持时可以求助朋友。

Autotrader powered by auto intelligence makes the process of buying a car less of a process. Try it today. Visit autotrader.com to find your perfect ride. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Social connection is a big predictor of a person's happiness, and one reason is because we can turn to our friends when we need some support.

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But sometimes your friends are busy or just not that knowledgeable about a specific issue you're facing, And that's why support can also come from a therapist. Therapists are clinically trained to understand complex emotional and psychological issues. They use evidence based techniques to help you process thoughts and emotions and develop healthier coping strategies, something most friends aren't equipped to do. If you're considering therapy, you may wanna check out BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, and BetterHelp is really convenient.

点击按钮即可与治疗师开启会话，帮助您在忙碌生活中安排治疗时间。作为全球最大的在线治疗服务商，BetterHelp提供多元专业领域的心理健康专家资源。通过BetterHelp找到适合您的治疗师。我们的听众首月可享9折优惠，请访问betterhelp.com/laurie。网址是betterhelp.com/laurie。

You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, which helps you fit therapy into your busy life. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/laurie. That's better,help,.com/laurie.

丹·比特纳写了很多书记录蓝区人们做得更好的事情，那些特殊地理区域的人们在统计上活得更长、更幸福。但我夏天拿起的这本书《一锅餐》，不仅仅列出了冲绳或撒丁岛人们做得更好的方面。它解释了如何让我们像蓝区人那样烹饪自己的餐食。我请丹解释这个新方向。

Dan Buettner has written lots of books chronicling what people do better in blue zones, those special geographic locations where people statistically live longer, happier lives. But the book I picked up over the summer, one pot meals, didn't just list what folks in Okinawa or Sardinia were doing better. It explained how we can cook our own meals more like they do in blue zones. I asked Dan to explain this new direction.

是的。这有点转变。你知道吗？所以我试图向像沃斯堡、那不勒斯和佛罗里达杰克逊维尔等地的人们阐述蓝区饮食。于是我开始写这些烹饪书，或与他人合作编写这些烹饪书。

Yes. It's a bit of a shift. You know? So I I'm trying to articulate the Blue Zone diet to people in places like Fort Worth and Naples and Jacksonville, Florida, etcetera. So I started writing these cookbooks or working with others to write these cookbooks.

首先，你必须意识到每次外出就餐，你会不知不觉多摄入约300卡路里。这些卡路里往往富含钠、超加工食品和糖分。所以唯一真正健康或延年益寿的饮食方式就是在家做饭。当你告诉人们必须在家做饭时，很多人立刻会说，我没时间。我不知道怎么做。

First of all, you have to realize that every time you go out to eat, you consume about 300 extra calories mindlessly. Those calories tend to be laden with sodium, ultra processed foods, and, sugars. So the only real way you're gonna eat healthy or eat for longevity is cook at home. So when you tell people you gotta cook at home, right away a lot of people, I don't have time. I don't know how.

或者太贵了，我买不起新鲜水果和蔬菜。但等等。事实证明，世界上最健康的长寿食物是平民食物。豆类。我上次查的时候，一磅豆子只要2美元。

Or it's too I can't afford fresh fruits and vegetables. But wait. It turns out the the healthiest longevity foods in the world are peasant foods. Beans. Last I checked, you can get a pound of beans for $2.

全谷物。有成箱的卖。你可以装满几袋。根茎类蔬菜，土豆，红薯。它们都非常便宜。

Whole grains. There are bins of them. You can fill up bags of them. Root vegetables, potatoes, sweet potato. They're all dirt cheap.

蓝区人们教我们的是如何用那些非常简单的食材做出美味的菜肴。你知道，在我开始这个之前我是个肉食者。不，我现在不吃肉了。对我来说不值得。不仅对健康无益，而且你知道，还有其他方面我觉得没有意义。

What people in blue zones teach us is how to take those very simple ingredients and make them taste delicious. You know, I was a meat eater before I started on this. No, I don't eat meat anymore. It's not worth it for me. Not health wise and you know, there's other facets to that don't make sense to me.

但对于这本新书，我想再迈出一步。我学到了最重要的——我实际上要考考你，洛瑞。你认为长寿最重要的成分是什么？

But for this new book I wanted to take another step. I've learned the most important and I'm gonna actually quiz you on this Lori. What do you think is the most important ingredient for longevity?

最重要的成分，是指像食物原料那样的成分吗？

The most important ingredient, like a food ingredient?

是的。或者

Yes. Or a

特征？我会说是植物基、社交联系、时间，还有拥有空闲时间。

characteristic? I would say plant based, social connection, time, having free time.

这些都很重要，但排第一位的是味道。

Those are all important, but number one is taste.

味道。没错。因为如果不好吃，我就不会吃它。

Taste. Right. Because if it doesn't taste good, I'm not gonna eat it.

说得对。而且如果味道好，你就不太在意它是什么。不管对你是有益还是有害，你长期都会吃它。所以为了确保人们喜欢这个，这本新书叫做《蓝色区域厨房：一锅餐》。我与斯坦福大学AI实验室合作，我们从互联网上最受欢迎的网站抓取了65万个食谱。

That's right. And if it does taste good, you don't much care what it is. If it's good for you or bad for it, you're gonna eat it for the long run. So to make sure that people like this one, this new book is called The Blue Zone Kitchen One Pot Meals. So I worked with Stanford in AI Lab, and we scraped 650,000 recipes from the most popular sites on the Internet.

我们筛选出所有获得100条或以上五星好评的食谱，然后进行分析，发现了七种非常清晰的风味模式。接着，我把蓝色区域的饮食指南和这七种模式交给了最有天赋的食谱开发者——一位来自《纽约时报》的先生，他帮我创造了100道旨在活到100岁的食谱，这些食谱极其美味且为长寿而设计。你可以用一口锅制作它们，每份成本不到3美元，而且大多数可以在20分钟内完成。所以，我们克服了人们可能有的每一个反对理由，并以美味为首要卖点。我的意思是，

We isolated all the recipes with a 100 or more five star reviews, and then we analyzed it and we saw seven very clear flavor patterns. And then I gave the Blue Zones food guidelines, these seven patterns to the most gifted recipe developer, a guy from the New York Times, and he helped me create a 100 recipes to live to a 100 that are maniacally delicious and formulated for longevity. And you can make them in one pot and they cost less than $3 a serving, and you can make most of them less than twenty minutes. So overcame every single objection somebody might have and led with deliciousness. I mean,

我很欣赏你们做这件事时考虑到为人们节省时间，因为我觉得这里有财务因素，也有人们不知道如何操作的因素。但我认为时间因素确实很真实。你知道，我认为目前在美国我们看到对幸福感的一大冲击就是人们自我报告感到极度时间匮乏，对吧？

I love that you're doing this with an eye for saving people time because I think there's the, you know, there's the finance thing. There's the people don't know how to do it thing. But I think the time thing, you know, is real. You know, I think one of the big hits on happiness that we see in The US right now is that people self report being really time famished. Right?

他们没有时间做一顿完整的饭。所以我觉得，如果还要让他们花上好几个小时来烹饪一顿美味的植物性餐食，这实际上是在加剧时间匮乏，并没有什么帮助。但你们所有的餐食——这也是我对这本烹饪书如此兴奋的原因之一——似乎都很快速。它们既经济实惠（金钱上），也为我们的时间节省了不少。

They don't have time to cook a whole meal. And so I think kind of adding to that, adding to the time famine by having them cook, you know, a plant based meal that's going to take hours and hours to make it delicious, like, that just doesn't really help. But all your meals one of the reasons I'm so excited about this cookbook, it seems like all the meals are are quick. Like, they're frugal, like, monetarily, but they're also frugal for our time too.

是的。书里有好几道菜，你早上只需花十五分钟准备一下，放进Instant Pot（我与Instant Pot没有任何关联，但它基本上就是一个电压力锅），按个按钮，下班回家，八个人的晚餐就做好了。

Yeah. There's several in there where you can just it takes you fifteen minutes to assemble in the morning. You put it in an Instant Pot. I I have no connection to Instant Pot, but it's it's a basically electric pressure cooker. And, you push a button, you come home from work, dinner for eight people's done.

但我也想强调一个非常重要的点。如果你吃的是标准美国饮食，这意味着你不太关注自己吃什么，如果你20岁，你的预期寿命会减少大约10年。男性是12年。即使你60岁，仍然会减少6年寿命，而过度摄入全食物、以植物为主的饮食则相反。所以人们常说没时间做健康食物。

But I also want to make a very important point. So if you're eating the standard American diet, which means you're not paying a hell of a lot of attention to what you're eating, and you're a 20 year old, you're losing about ten years of life expectancy. For a male, it's twelve years. And if you're 60, you're still losing six years, overeating a whole food, largely plant based diet. So people say, don't have time to make healthy food.

但如果你把这多出来的6年预期寿命平均分摊到你的生活中，相当于每天多出2小时。你负担不起不吃健康食物的代价。

But if you take those, let's just say those six years of extra life expectancy and average them back through your life, it's an extra two hours a day. You can't afford to not eat healthy.

我真的很喜欢这个角度，就像，通过花这20分钟或半小时来烹饪健康餐食，我实际上在整个生命周期中每天能赚回2小时。

I do I do love that framing that, like, by eating by spending this, you know, twenty minutes half hour to cook the healthy meal, I'm actually getting two hours a day over my whole lifetime.

我喜欢这个说法。认为‘哦，我没时间’是一种认知陷阱，对吧？

I love that. It's a it's a cognitive trap, right, to think, oh, I don't have time.

是的。这真是一个认知陷阱，对吧？因为我们没有从长远角度思考，我们只想着这周四下午5点要做什么。

Yeah. It's such a cognitive trap. Right? Because we're not thinking over the long term. We're thinking this Thursday at 05:00.

比如，我的时间都花在哪里了？我们并没有真正为

Like, what am I doing with my time? We're not kind of thinking for

长远做打算。这本烹饪书叫做《蓝色区域厨房一锅料理》。为了测试效果，你知道，我现在住在迈阿密，我去了一个叫奥弗敦中心的地方。这里是内城区的妈妈们——那些经济条件不太好的妈妈们——带孩子来的地方。我邀请了20位妈妈和我一起度过了十周时间。

the long term. The cookbook is called the Blue Zones Kitchen One Pot. And and to test it out, you know, I live in Miami these days, and I went to something called the Overtown Center. And this is a place where inner city moms who don't have a lot of money, you know, bring their kids. And I invited 20 moms to spend ten weeks with me.

每周我们聚在一起，我把她们分成我们称之为'moais'的小组，这是一种承诺型社交圈，我们花时间确保她们互相了解。然后我拿出我的烹饪书说：浏览这本书，找出一个你们想做的食谱——实际上是为下周准备的。我还请了一位厨师来帮忙，我们带来了砧板。我给她们每人一个快煲电压力锅，每周三上午11点到1点，我们一起做饭。过程简单有趣，就是切菜然后放进快煲锅里。

And every week we got together and, I put them in what we call moais, which are these sort of committed social circles, and we spend some time making sure they get to know each other. Then I brought my cookbook and I said, paves through this and identify a recipe you'd like to cook with, you know, it's actually for next week. But then I hired a chef to help me and we brought cutting boards. I gave them all instant pots and every Wednesday at from eleven to one, we all cooked together. It was simple and it was fun and it was just chopped and we put it in the instant pot.

我们盖上盖子，然后——要知道这些女士中有很多人平时都在吃Popeyes炸鸡、冷冻披萨和便利店买的垃圾食品。一旦她们意识到：a)她们负担得起，b)她们能做出来，c)现在她们有了快煲锅这个烹饪工具。最后的关键时刻是当她们尝到味道时：天哪！

We put the lid on and then, and a lot of these ladies are eating, you know, Popeyes and frozen pizza and junk food from the convenience store. And once they realize that a, they could afford it, b, they could make it, and c, now they have an instant pot. They have the hardware to cook it. And then the the closer was they tasted it. Oh my god.

这太美味了！我的任务就完成了。我送她们回家，我们记录了她们的血压和体重——每个人体重都下降了，每个人的血压在短短十周内都有不同程度的下隆。所以我认为，这是让人们重新回家做饭的杀手级应用。

This is delicious. My job is done. I send them home and we captured their blood pressure and their weight and every one of them lost weight. Every one of them had a little to a lot drop in blood pressure in just ten weeks. So, you know, I just think it's the killer app to get people cooking at home again.

你不必买我的书，但采用全植物饮食的理念，在长寿方面你能给家人最好的礼物。

You don't have to buy my books, but the idea of eating whole plant based food is the biggest gift you can give to your family when it comes to longevity.

我也很喜欢你提到的这个想法，比如把大家聚在一起，或者你为八个人准备晚餐。因为我们知道家常便饭的另一个力量在于，它们常常是与家人一起享用的。最近的一份世界幸福报告就谈到了共享餐食和一起吃饭的力量，对吧？我觉得我们在追求标准美式快餐饮食时还有一点就是，我们会匆匆跑去吃快餐。

I also love that you've mentioned this idea of, like, getting the moais together or that you're making dinner for eight. Because another thing that we know about the power of home cooked meals is that oftentimes our home cooked meals are eaten with the family together. And one of the most recent World Happiness reports talked about the power of shared meals and eating together. Right? I think another thing we do when we're kinda getting our standard American diet fast food is that we, you know, run over to fast food.

我们在车里独自吃饭。但是，为多人准备的快煲饭意味着我们可以在享受美食的同时，也能获得社交联系的好处。

We eat in our car by ourselves. But, you know, the instant pot meal that we're making for multiple people, it means we can get the benefit of social connection while we're enjoying that meal as well.

除了社交联系外，还有另外两点。第一，如果你一只手握着方向盘或者站着吃饭，你往往会吃得更快，而饱腹感需要大约二十分钟才能从胃部传达到大脑。如果你匆匆进食，相比与家人或朋友坐着边聊天边吃饭，你更容易饮食过量。另一点是，如果你在压力下进食，皮质醇会干扰消化过程，使其不完全，更容易导致消化不良，在体内引发炎症反应。所以你确实需要放慢速度。

There's two other things besides social connection. Number one, you know, if you're eating with one hand on the steering wheel or standing up, you tend to eat much faster and it takes about twenty minutes for that full feeling to travel from your belly to your brain. And if you're eating on the run, you're much more likely to overeat than if you're sitting with your family or even with friends and punctuating the meal with a conversation. The other thing is if you eat when you're stressed, cortisol interrupts the digestion process, makes it less complete, makes it more like you're going to get indigestion, creates an inflammatory situation in your body. So you really want to slow down.

然后在蓝区你还会看到另一种现象，比如在基督教国家，餐前总会做感恩祷告；在冲绳，则是'腹八分'（Hara Hachi Bu），这是一句儒家格言。它提醒人们在胃部八分饱时停止进食，但更重要的是它在忙碌生活和用餐之间设立了一个停顿。感谢上天赐予食物，尊重食物，而不是仅仅往嘴里塞东西，现在这是一项与家人或朋友共进餐食的社交活动。长此以往，这会带来巨大差异。

And then another thing you see in blue zones, you know, in the Christian countries, they're always saying grace before a meal or in, Okinawa, it's Hara Hachi Bu, a Confucian adage. It reminds them to stop eating when their stomach is 80% full, but they're putting some punctuation between their busy life and okay, now we're eating. Thank you higher power for this food, honoring the food so it's not just stuffing stuff in their mouth, and now this is a social activity we're gonna eat with our family or friends. Makes a big difference over time.

正如我提到的，我刚满50岁。所以我期待着接下来的五十年，也希望自己能成为百岁老人。对我未来五十年的长寿和更健康生活，有什么建议吗？

As I mentioned, I just just turned 50. And so I feel like I'm looking forward to the next fifty years so I can become a centenarian as well. Any advice for me to live longer and better during my next fifty years?

嗯，第一，想想你和谁在一起消磨时间。我不了解你的社交圈。首先，在我看来你看起来相当快乐健康，所以可能不需要改变什么。但如果我对一个普通人说，我会问：谁是我三个最好的朋友？哪些人是我花最多时间相处的？

Well, number one, think about who you're spending time with. I don't know your socials. First of all, you look pretty happy and healthy to me, so maybe nothing. But if I'm talking to an average person, I would say, who are my three best friends? Who are the people I spend the most time with?

我们知道，如果你三个最要好的朋友肥胖或不健康，你超重的几率会高出约150%。所以我不会建议你抛弃那些不快乐、不健康的老朋友，因为他们可能需要你。但我会说，增添快乐健康的朋友可能是你能做的最有力的事情之一，因为朋友会对你的健康行为产生长期影响，甚至你都不需要刻意去想。我还会考虑我居住的地方。如果你住在一个压力过大、交通拥堵或无法获得健康食物的地方，我会考虑搬家。

We know if your three best friends are obese or unhealthy, there's about a hundred and fifty percent better chance you'll be overweight. So I I wouldn't tell you to dump your, you know, your old unhappy, unhealthy friends because they might need you. But I would say that adding happy and healthy friends, probably one of the most powerful things you can do to add yours because friends have a long term impact on your health behavior without you even thinking about it. I'd also think about where I'm living. You know, if you live in a place with too much, stress or traffic or no not access to good food, I I would think about moving.

最后一点，花点时间写下你的价值观。我关心女性议题。我是基督徒。我是共和党人。我是民主党人。

And then, the last thing, taking a few moments to write down what your values are. I care about women's issues. I'm a Christian. I'm a Republican. I'm a Democrat.

无论是什么，都写下来。然后在另一栏写下你喜欢做什么。哦，我喜欢写作，或者我喜欢教学，或者我喜欢修理东西。我很擅长解决冲突，诸如此类。一项项列出来。

Whatever it is, write them down. Then in a separate column, write down what you love to do. Oh, I love I love writing, or I love teaching, or I love to I love to fix things. I'm really good at resolving conflicts, whatever. Boom boom boom list.

接着第三栏，我擅长什么？嗯，我真的很擅长照顾人。我很擅长激励下一代。不管是什么，把这些摆在面前，然后确保你有渠道去实践这些——你的核心价值观、热情所在以及擅长之事。

And then the third column, what am I good at? Well, I'm really good at taking care of people. I'm really good at inspiring the next generation. Whatever it is, get that out in front of you and then make sure you have an outlet for those things. You know, the main values, passions, and and what you're good at.

如果你在工作中无法实现这些，顺便说一下，根据GALB的数据，约70%的美国人在工作中找不到这些。他们在工作中缺乏目标感。请确保你在家庭或志愿活动中践行它们。做志愿者听起来可能很老套，但它对长寿和幸福感都极具威力。

And if you're not getting it at work, and by the way, according to GALB, about seventy percent of Americans don't get it at work. They don't have purpose at work. Make sure you're deploying it at home or volunteering. Seems like such a cliche to volunteer, but it is so powerful for both longevity and happiness.

太棒了。这就是我——这是我经丹·比特纳认证的活到百岁秘诀。私人咨询版。而且

I love it. This is my this is my Dan Buettner approved recipe for living into a hundred years. Private consultation. And

这是免费的。注意，我不能向你推销补充剂，也不会卖给你激素或其他任何江湖骗子式的产品。但这些建议，我是从那些明显活得最长、最健康的人群中提炼而来的。我只是一个传递信息的媒介。

it's free. Notice I can't sell you a supplement, and I'm not selling you or a hormone or any of that other snake oil than other influencers. But this is, these are, I'm, I'm coming to you from the populations who are manifestly living the longest, healthiest lives. It's just a distillation. I'm just a medium here.

如果这次讨论激发了你的兴趣，那你应该去看看丹的新烹饪书《一锅料理》，现已上市。想获取更多幸福健康生活的秘诀，请关注丹的新播客《丹·比特纳播客》。下一期节目中，我将暂别烹饪书，与大家探讨一本行为科学经典著作的2025年全新升级版——它甚至是由诺贝尔奖得主撰写的。

If this discussion has whet your appetite, then you should check out Dan's cookbook, one pot meals, which is out now. And for more tips on living happier and healthier, you should check out Dan's new podcast. It's called the Dan Buettner podcast. In our next episode, I'll be leaving the cookbooks behind to explore a classic text on behavioral science with a brand new and improved edition for 2025. It's even written by a Nobel laureate.

你不会在结尾时像诺贝尔奖得主那样来个麦克风一扔的戏剧性退场吗？

You don't mic drop the, like, end Nobel laureate?

我...我不会。我会让你来提这个。

I I don't. I'll let you mention that.

所有这些，下次在《幸福实验室》节目中，与我——劳里·桑托斯博士一起探讨。我是来自《幸福实验室》的劳里·桑托斯博士。如果你曾感到失衡，有时换个环境是最好的重启方式。达美航空邀请了四位创作者探索一个想法：如果旅行不仅仅是移动，而是在行进中充电呢？

All that next time on the Happiness Lab with me, doctor Laurie Santos. This is doctor Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab. If you've ever felt off balance, sometimes a change of scenery is the best reset. Delta invited four creators to explore one idea. What if travel isn't just movement, but recharging in motion?

结果如何？根据他们的Oura Ring睡眠评分，每个人都以更休息充足的状态迎接新的一天，而且一种清晰感在旅行结束后持续了很久。搭乘达美航空，飞得更好，活得更好。在达美航空的YouTube频道上探索完整旅程。美国军事大学，让像您这样的军人能够获得高质量、负担得起的教育，专为您的生活方式打造。

And the results? Based on their Oura Ring sleep scores, everyone met the day feeling more rested, and a sense of clarity stayed long after the trip. With Delta, fly and live better. Explore the whole journey on Delta's YouTube channel. American Military University, where service members like you can access high quality affordable education built for your lifestyle.

凭借适合部署、训练和不可预测日程的在线课程，AMU让您无论身在何处都能获得学位。他们的优先军事费率将本科和硕士学费保持在每学分小时仅250美元。并且提供24/7心理健康支持、职业辅导和其他服务，AMU致力于您在服役期间及之后的成功。了解更多信息，请访问amu.apus.edu/military。即amu.apus.edu/military。

With online programs that fit around deployments, training, and unpredictable schedules, AMU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition. And with twenty four seven mental health support plus career coaching and other services, AMU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at amu.apus.edu/military. That's a mu.apus.edu/military.

你可能听我说过这个。连接是幸福的最大关键之一。而我最喜欢的一种建立连接的方式是‘随性待客之道’——即使事情不完美，也邀请人们过来。因为仅仅是在一起笑、聊天、做饭就能让你感觉良好。这就是为什么我喜欢博世。

You've probably heard me say this. Connection is one of the biggest keys to happiness. And one of my favorite ways to build that, scruffy hospitality, inviting people over even when things aren't perfect. Because just being together, laughing, chatting, cooking makes you feel good. That's why I love Bosch.

博世带有VitaFresh技术的冰箱能让食材保鲜更久，所以你总是准备好快速做一顿饭并分享一个特别的时刻。新鲜食物表明你在乎，它向你爱的人表明他们很重要。了解更多，请访问boschhomeus.com。这是一个iHeart播客。

Bosch fridges with VitaFresh technology keep ingredients fresher longer, so you're always ready to whip up a meal and share a special moment. Fresh foods show you care, and it shows the people you love that they matter. Learn more. Visit boschhomeus.com. This is an iHeart podcast.