如何轻松变优秀 - 几乎不费吹灰之力（与约翰·格林一起）

这里是iHeart播客。欢迎收听《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市阿德里亚健康研究所女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将与顶尖研究人员和临床医生对话，解答你们迫切关注的问题，将关于女性健康及中年期的信息直接传递给你们。

This is an iHeart podcast. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都与你相关。

A hundred percent of women you.

人们常提到的症状包括遗忘一切。我以前从不会忘事。她们一方面担心自己患有痴呆症，另一方面又在想：我是不是有注意力缺陷多动症？

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia, and the other one is do I have ADHD?

大麻和大麻素在改善睡眠、减轻疼痛方面展现出前所未有的潜力，

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain,

还能提升情绪，改善日常生活质量。欢迎在任意播客平台收听伊丽莎白·波因特医生主持的《解码女性健康》。

to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter wherever you get your podcasts.

Pushkin 嘿，《幸福实验室》的听众们。今天你们有福了，因为在本期节目结束时，我和嘉宾将分享如何通过几乎零努力完成一件极其了不起、能拯救生命且大幅提升幸福感的事。剧透一下：这将涉及网站givedirectly.org/tb。就是givedirectly.org/tb。主持《幸福实验室》最让我开心的部分之一，就是能向你们分享我的挚爱——比如那次我采访八十年代心动偶像罗伯·洛威谈论怀旧之情。

Pushkin Hey, Happiness Lab listeners. Today, you are in for a treat because by the end of this episode, my guest and I will have shared how you can do something totally awesome, totally lifesaving, and something totally happiness inducing with almost zero effort. And spoiler, it's going to involve the website givedirectly.org/tb. That's givedirectly.org/tb. One of my favorite parts of being host of the happiness lab is that I get to share stuff that I love with you, like the time I interviewed my eighties heartthrob, Rob Lowe, about nostalgia.

仅仅是和

Just talking with

你在Zoom会议上，而我正带你回顾，你知道的，小学时看过的电影和大学里的欢乐时光。

you on the Zoom call, and I'm taking back to, you know, movies I watched in grade school and fun times in college.

太棒了。这让我感觉非常好。

That is amazing. That makes me feel so good.

或者当我与《星际迷航》里的韦斯利·克鲁夏中尉本人威尔·惠顿狂热讨论时。

Or when I geeked out about Star Trek with lieutenant Wesley Crusher himself, Will Wheaton.

《星际迷航》透过屏幕告诉你，未来有一个专门为你准备的位置。就像你，劳里，未来有你的一席之地。我太爱这个设定了。

Star Trek looks through the screen, and it says, there is a place specifically for you in the future. Like you, Laurie, there is a space for you in the future. I loved that.

但今天，我不仅能与一位我痴迷已久的对象交谈，还有机会邀请你们帮助这位嘉宾做些让世界更美好的事。如果你碰巧和我一样是个书呆子战士，那就准备好。因为今天，我将与了不起的约翰·格林对话。

But today, I not only get to chat with someone who I have nerded out about for a very, very long time, but I also have the chance to invite you to help that guest do something to make the world a better place. If you happen to be a nerd nerdfighter like me, then get ready. Because today, I'll be chatting with the amazing John Green.

等等。我连耳机都没戴。这简直是史无前例的灾难级场面。

Hold on. I don't even have my headphones in. This is a catastrophe of the scale of which nobody's ever seen before.

不，你很好。你很好。你很好。

No. You're good. You're good. You're good.

让我确认一下我是否在用这个高级麦克风。是的。好的。太好了。

Let me make sure I'm on the right fancy mic. I am. Okay. Great.

我想很多《幸福实验室》的听众都知道约翰·格林是谁。约翰首先是一位畅销书作家，既创作了深受喜爱的小说如《乌龟一路向下》和《星运里的错》，也有非虚构佳作如《人类世评论》，在这本书中他专业地评论了从健怡胡椒博士到天花疫苗的一切。但约翰同时也是一位教育家，与他的兄弟汉克共同创建了令人惊叹的Vlogbrothers和Crash Course YouTube频道。约翰一直是我心目中的英雄，因为我在他的作品中看到了许多幸福科学的影子。

I'm guessing a lot of my Happiness Lab listeners know who John Green is. John is first and foremost a best selling author, both of beloved fictional books like turtles all the way down and the fault in our stars, but also nonfiction greats like the Anthropocene Reviewed, a book in which he expertly reviews everything from Diet Doctor Pepper to the smallpox vaccine. But John is also an educator who, with his brother Hank, created the awe inspiring Vlogbrothers and Crash Course YouTube channels. John has been a hero of mine for a while because I see a lot of happiness science in his work.

你有没有想过自己会成为一档幸福播客的专家？

Did you ever think that you would be an expert on a happiness podcast?

没有。说实话，医生，我不觉得自己散发出那种幸福专家的气质。

No. I don't I don't give off the vibes of somebody who's an expert in happiness, to be honest with you, doc.

但你确实是，老兄。我是说，你如此专注于敬畏这类事物，并理解负面情绪正是你需要与之共处的。你几乎遵循了所有的科学理论。

But you so are, dude. I mean, you're so focused on things like awe and understanding that negative emotions are the things that you wanna stick around with. Like, you you kinda follow all the science.

我是说，当我听这个播客时，我常想，哦，我比想象中更接近这种状态。因为我离那种健康产业版本幸福相去甚远，但离洛瑞·桑托斯医生定义的幸福相当接近，这让我真的——找不到更好的词来形容——感到快乐。

I mean, when I listen to the podcast, I often think like, oh, I'm closer than I thought I was. Because I'm pretty far away from this sort of, like, wellness industry version of happiness, but I'm pretty close to the doctor Lori Santos version of happiness, which makes me really, for lack of a better term, happy.

约翰的作品体现了我研究幸福科学时学到的许多经验：意义不在于逃避苦难而在于拥抱它，平凡中也能发现奇迹，即便面对大量糟糕透顶的事情，我们仍可以选择团结起来真正解决问题。而这正是本期节目的目标。约翰的新书探讨了一个全球人类共同面临的难题。

John's work embodies so many of the lessons that I've learned studying the science of happiness. That meaning comes not from avoiding suffering but embracing it, that there's wonder to be found in the mundane, and that even in the face of a lot of terrible sucky stuff, we can choose to band together to actually fix things. And that's the goal of this episode. John's latest book deals with a problem facing people around the world.

这本新书名为《万物皆结核》。它通过长期的历史视角，以及塞拉利昂一位患结核病儿童的生活，讲述了结核病的历史。

The new book is called Everything is Tuberculosis. It's a history of tuberculosis told through the perspective of both a long term historical lens, but also the life of one kid living with tuberculosis in Sierra Leone.

为了让可能不太了解的听众明白，结核病到底是什么？

And so just for listeners who might not be as familiar, what is tuberculosis?

结核病是一种空气传播疾病。它通常影响肺部，但实际上可以感染身体的任何部位。它会让人们病得很重，但病情发展往往相当缓慢，因为细菌分裂速度很慢。所以人们可能会病上数月或数年，但如果不治疗，结核病通常会导致死亡。幸运的是，自上世纪五十年代以来，我们已经有了治愈结核病的方法。

So tuberculosis is an airborne disease. It usually affects the lungs, but it can infect any part of the body really. And it makes people really sick, but but it tends to make them sick quite slowly because the bacteria divides very slowly. And so you can be sick for months or years, but, if left untreated, tuberculosis usually does result in death. Fortunately, since the nineteen fifties, we've had a cure for tuberculosis.

这是一种细菌感染，所以治疗方法就是每天服用抗生素，持续四到六个月。

It's a bacterial infection, so the cure is antibiotics given every day over four to six months.

那为什么现在要写一本关于结核病的书？为什么选择在这个时间讲述这个故事？

So why write a book about tuberculosis now? Why tell this particular story at this time?

嗯，令人惊讶的是，结核病仍然是世界上最致命的传染病。我说令人惊讶，是因为它已经被治愈这么久了。自从这种疾病可以治愈以来，我们已经让超过一亿五千万人死于结核病，这个数字让我难以理解。但这恰恰说明了疾病不仅是一种生物医学现象，也是一种社会现象。我们如何看待疾病，如何分配资源，不仅决定了人们如何因结核病等疾病生死，还决定了谁会因结核病等疾病生死。

Well, because tuberculosis is still the world's deadliest infectious disease, astonishingly. I I say astonishingly because it's been curable for so long. Like, since the disease became curable, we've allowed over a hundred fifty million people to die of it, which is just a figure that's hard for me to get my head around. But it just speaks to how, you know, disease is a biomedical phenomenon, but it's also a social one. And how we imagine disease, how we allocate resources around disease, that shapes not just, like, how people live and die of diseases like tuberculosis, but also who lives and dies of diseases like TB.

约翰，你的结核病之旅似乎一部分是在试图解决问题，但至少在书中，结核病在某种程度上似乎还挺酷的。我不知道能不能用‘酷’这个词来形容一种导致许多人死亡的疾病，但这确实是一段引人入胜的文化之旅。

John, it seems like part of your TB journey was trying to fix the problem, but part of the TB journey, at least in the book, seemed like, in some ways, TB was sort of, like, cool. I don't know if you can word use the word cool for some disease that kills lots of people, but it was it's kind of a fascinating cultural journey.

是的。这段文化旅程中最引人入胜的部分在于，肺结核曾一度被视为时髦。比如，维克多·雨果的朋友会开玩笑说，他要是得了痨病就能成为伟大小说家了——因为当时普遍认为肺结核能造就伟大艺术家，还能让人容颜绝美。这是18至19世纪对这种疾病的浪漫化想象。但事实上，结核病在历史上无处不在。

Yeah. I mean, one of the fascinating parts of that cultural journey is that for a while, it was considered cool. Like, Victor Hugo's friends would joke with him that he could be a great novelist if only he contracted consumption because it was so widely believed that consumption made you a great artist and also made you really beautiful. This was part of the romanticization of the disease in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. But, really, tuberculosis is everywhere in history.

我在书中提出，它甚至是第一次世界大战的间接诱因。牛仔帽因它而生，新墨西哥州能成为美国一州也与之相关。结核病的奇特之处在于，作为一种曾夺走七分之一人口生命的强大疾病，它不可避免地对我们文化和历史产生了深远影响。

It's, I I argue in the book that it was an ancillary cause of World War one. It was the cause of the cowboy hat. It's the reason New Mexico is a state. The strangeness of tuberculosis is that because it was such a powerful and important part of our culture, I mean, this was a disease that killed one out of every seven people, that it it inevitably also became a disease that had a huge impact on our culture and our history.

等等，牛仔帽是因为肺结核才出现的？这完全说不通啊。

Wait. TB is the reason we have the cowboy hat? That doesn't make any sense.

但其实合情合理。新泽西有位名叫约翰·B·斯泰森的制帽匠得了肺结核，医生告诉他唯一活路就是去西部——这是当时普遍认知，人们相信西部纯净空气能治愈疾病。斯泰森最终来到了密苏里州的圣约瑟夫市。

And yet it makes total sense because there was a hatmaker in New Jersey named John B. Stetson who got tuberculosis and was told that his only chance of survival was to go west. This was a very common belief at the time. You you move west, and then you recover your health in the sweet, clean air. And John b Stetson made it out to Saint Joseph, Missouri.

在那里他奇迹般痊愈了。约25%的患者会不明原因地自愈，斯泰森正是这幸运的少数。康复期间，他发现美国西部的帽子质量低劣：浣熊皮帽爬满虫子，新墨西哥和墨西哥人戴的草帽又完全不适合圣约瑟夫多雨的气候。

And while he was there, he recovered from tuberculosis. About twenty five percent of people, for reasons we still don't understand, will recover without treatment. And John b Stetson was in that lucky few. And as he recovered, he noticed that the hats in the American West were not very good because there were, like, coonskin caps that were literally bug infested. There were, like, straw hats that folks from New Mexico and and Mexico had brought up, but, like, they didn't work particularly well in Saint Joe's rainy environment.

于是他发明了斯泰森毡帽。所以说，没有肺结核就没有牛仔帽。

And so he invented the Stetson hat. And so, yes, there would be no cowboy hat without tuberculosis.

而你自己与结核病的交集，据我所知始于遇见一个特别的人——一个让你想起自己儿子的孩子。能谈谈亨利吗？

And so your own introduction to TB, as I understand it, started when you met somebody incredible, somebody who reminded you of your own son. Tell me about Henry.

是的。亨利和我儿子同名，也叫亨利。2019年我在塞拉利昂第一次见到亨利·莱德时，以为他和我儿子年纪相仿，大概九岁左右。他带着我走遍了整个医院。你说得没错。

Yeah. So Henry shares a name with my son, who is also named Henry. And when I first met Henry Ryder in Sierra Leone in 2019, I thought he was about the same age as my son. I thought he was about nine years old, and he just walked me all around the hospital. And you're right.

他就是个不可思议的人。有点像那地方的市长，走到哪儿都有人和他握手、摸他的头。他带我去实验室，带我去病人住的病房，最后还带我回到医生们会诊疑难病例的房间。

He's just somebody who's incredible. He was kind of the mayor of that place. Everywhere he went, people were shaking his hand, rubbing his head. And he took me to the lab. He took me to the the wards where the patients were living, and he eventually took me back to the doctors who were meeting to discuss cases they were concerned about or whatever.

医生们又好气又好笑地把亨利赶走了。我问那是谁家孩子？是你们谁的孩子吗？他们说不是，他其实是病人，正是他们会诊的病例之一，因为他的情况非常令人担忧。

And they sort of lovingly and laughingly shooed Henry away. And then I said, whose kid is that? Is that one of your kids? And they said, no. He's a patient, and he's in fact one of the patients that we're consulting about because we're very concerned about him.

后来发现亨利并非我想象的九岁，他已经十七岁了。先是营养不良，后是疾病折磨，让他消瘦得看起来年幼许多。正是通过追踪亨利的故事、逐渐了解亨利，我才最终写成了这本书。

And it turned out that Henry wasn't nine like I imagined him. He was 17. He'd just been so emaciated first by malnutrition and then by the disease that he looked much younger. And it was really in following Henry's story and getting to know Henry that, I I ended up writing the book.

你书里让我震惊——甚至读着有点羞愧的是，我原本以为结核病是过去式的疾病，就像维多利亚时代的老问题，只能在旧照片里看到的那种。

So something that I was shocked by in your book and kind of embarrassed when I was reading it is that I sort of assumed that TB was like this disease of the past, like some, like, old Victorian problem that, you know, you look in old pictures and stuff like that.

完全理解。

Totally.

请说说为什么当今社会对结核病的严重性缺乏认知，以及它实际的影响范围有多大？

Give me a sense of why we don't realize the scope of TB today and what the actual scope is today.

我认为我们没有意识到问题规模的原因之一在于，结核病往往发生在那些最没有扩音器、最无法发声的人群所在地区。但这个问题的规模确实非常、非常庞大。每年约有一千万人感染肺结核，约一百二十五万人因此死亡。不幸的是，这个数字在未来几年很可能还会上升。

I think one of the reasons we don't realize the scope is that, it tends to be a problem in places where people are least likely to have access to megaphones, you know, the least likely to be able to make their voices heard. But the scope of the problem is really, really significant. About ten million people get sick with tuberculosis every year and about one point two five million die. And, unfortunately, that number is is likely to go up in the next few years.

这听起来很疯狂对吧？尽管我们已经有了有效的治疗方法，这种疾病却依然存在。是啊，为什么我们还没解决这个问题？从医学角度看，我们似乎已经攻克了最困难的部分不是吗？

This seems really crazy, right, that the disease is still around even though we have good treatments for it. Yeah. Why why aren't we fixing this? Like, this seems like a problem that, medically, we've sorted out the hard part. Right?

我们明明有能治愈的抗生素。为什么人们仍在因此丧命？

We have antibiotics that can fix this. Like, why are people still dying from this?

其实肺结核绝非易治之症。但你知道，我哥哥几年前患了癌症，那同样不是容易治愈的疾病。治疗他的癌症花费比治愈亨利的肺结核高出约150倍。然而从没有人说过'不确定是否值得治疗你，或许更应该注重预防'这样的话。

Well, TB isn't an easy disease to cure by any stretch of the imagination. But, you know, my brother had cancer a couple years ago, and that also wasn't an easy disease to cure. It cost about a 150 times more to cure my brother's cancer than it cost to cure Henry's tuberculosis. And yet nobody at any time said, I'm not sure that it makes sense to treat you. It might be better to focus more on prevention.

从狭义上讲，投资癌症预防确实比治疗癌症更划算。但显然，这种说法荒谬至极。我们绝不会对癌症患者说这种话。然而亨利却经常听到这样的言论。

No. It's true that in a narrow sense, it's a better investment to focus on the prevention of cancer than it is to focus on treating cancer. But, of course, that's a ludicrous thing to say. We would never say that to someone living with cancer. And yet Henry heard that all the time.

他总被告知没有足够资源为他提供生存所需的个性化定制治疗。因此他在很长时间里病情极其严重。当亨利几乎奄奄一息时，多亏了杰出的杰罗姆·塔费拉医生、塞拉利昂卫生部以及非营利组织

He heard that there just aren't, resources out there to offer you the kind of personalized tailored care that you would need in order to survive. And as a result, he was really, really sick for a really long time. I mean, Henry was essentially on his deathbed when finally, thanks to an extraordinary doctor, doctor Jerome Tafera and the Sierra Leonean Ministry of Health and the nonprofit organization Partners in Health, they all kinda came together and decided that this kid was worthy of that kind of treatment. And even though, as doctor Jerome told me, I know it's just one kid, but what if he can be the first of many? And he has been the first of many, blessedly.

现在有更多人正在接受亨利最终获得的那种治疗，这就是他今天能和我们在一起的原因。

So many more people are receiving the kind of treatment that Henry, finally was able to receive, and that's why he's here with us today.

但你的意思似乎是说，结核病不仅仅是一个医学问题。它实际上更像是一个社会公正问题，某种程度上是贫困的疾病。对吧？你在写这本书时发现的是这样吗？

But it seems like what you're saying is that TB isn't just like a medical problem. It's really like a social justice problem. It's really sort of a disease of poverty. Right. Is that kinda what you found writing the book?

完全正确。这是一个社会公正问题。结核病沿着我们为它开辟的不公正路径蔓延，这种情况已经持续了几十年。任何人都可能感染结核病，这是一种空气传播疾病，但如果你营养不良，或有其他健康问题如HIV感染或糖尿病，你患病和死亡的概率会大大增加。

Absolutely. It is a social justice problem. Tuberculosis follows the the paths of injustice that we blaze for it, and that's been the case for decades now. Anybody can get TB. It's an airborne disease, but you're vastly more likely to become sick and die if you're malnourished, if you have other health problems like an HIV infection or diabetes.

因此，从任何角度看，这都是不公正的疾病。我写这本书的原因在于，对我而言，它是不公正的典型疾病。当然不是唯一的一种，但它既是生物医学现象，也是社会现象。

And so it's a disease of injustice in in every way. And the reason I wrote this book is because for me, it's the exemplary disease of injustice. It's certainly not the only one, but it is a disease that is a social phenomenon as much as a biomedical one.

它似乎也是我们出于与忽视贫困相同的原因而忽视的疾病。对吧？就像我们喜欢认为自己对疾病有控制权，喜欢认为如果我们恰好有特权不处于这种疾病肆虐的地方，那是我们应得的地位。这似乎也是人性的一种问题。

It It also seems to be one that we kinda ignore for the same reason we ignore poverty. Right? Like, we like to think we have control over the disease. We like to think that we, you know, we earned our status if we happen to kinda be privileged enough not to be in a place where this disease is wiping people out. It seems to also be kind of a problem of human nature.

是的，完全同意。这是个很好的观察。我们对处理社会秩序中的随机性和不公正感到不适，这当然会让我们这些极度特权者感到不安。

Yeah. Totally. I mean, I think that's a great observation. We are uncomfortable with dealing with randomness and and injustice in our social orders because, of course, we are. It discomforts those of us who are extremely privileged.

其他人也会感到不安，因为我们不愿生活在一个像历史上最强大的帝王亚历山大大帝也可能死于伤寒或疟疾这样的世界里。几个世纪以来，我们一直有传言说他死于中毒，因为这更像是人为的、基于能动性的事件。像结核病这样我们缺乏能动性或能动性非常模糊的领域会让我们感到不适，我认为是因为我们不愿面对社会秩序中不仅存在的随机性，还有根植其中的不公正。

It also discomforts other people because we don't really wanna live in a world where, like, the most powerful emperor of all time, Alexander the Great, can die from just, like, typhoid or malaria or whatever, which is why, like, for centuries, we've had rumors that he died of poisoning because that would be a much more human centric thing to have happen, a much more agency based thing to have happen. The places where we where we don't have agency or where our agency is very confusing like it is with tuberculosis are are uncomfortable for us, I think, because we don't want to reckon with not just the randomness in the social order, but also the injustice that's built into the social order.

尤其是在生死攸关的时候。如果你是像亨利那样的人，亲耳听到'因为你的居住地，救你的命太昂贵了'，那简直难以置信。

I mean, especially when it comes to life and death. Like, if you're someone like Henry and you're literally hearing, you know, your life is not worth saving because it's too expensive given where you live. I mean, that's just incredible.

是的。我是说，这确实令人震惊。然而人们每天都被这样告知，不仅是结核病患者，还有其他疾病的患者。你知道吗？当我哥哥患上癌症时，他对我说的第一件事就是：在美国治愈率高达93%，而在贫困国家只有20%到70%。

Yeah. I mean, it really is horrifying. And yet people are told that every day, and not just people with TB, but also people living with other other diseases. You know? When my brother got cancer, one of the first things he said to me was this has a ninety three percent cure rate in The United States and a twenty to seventy percent cure rate in poor countries.

我们之所以不知道是20%还是70%，是因为我们甚至没有做好统计工作。

And the reason we don't know whether it's twenty percent or seventy percent is because we don't even do a good job of counting.

天啊。你刚才说的更可怕。对吧？你说结核病现在真的很严重，而且可能会变得更糟。是的。

Man. And you just said something that was even scarier. Right? You said that, you know, TB is really bad now, and it's likely going to get worse. Yeah.

这部分是因为，你看，我们在这个奇怪的时间进行这次对话，事情正在变得更糟。为什么事情会变得更糟，最近发生了什么改变了这一切？

And that's in part because, you know, you and I are having this conversation at a strange time when when things are getting worse. Why are things getting worse, and and what's happened recently to change things?

所以我们经历了大幅削减，主要来自美国政府，还有其他国家对结核病应对的资助。美国长期以来一直是结核病应对的最大资助者。不幸的是，我们以一种非常突然和混乱的方式退出了，导致数十万人的治疗中途中断。就像我之前说的，治愈需要四到六个月的治疗。如果在中间中断，即使治疗重新开始，你也很有可能发展成耐药结核病，这是更严重的事情。

So we've had dramatic cuts mostly from the US government, but also from other governments to tuberculosis response. The United States has long been the most generous funder of tuberculosis response. And, unfortunately, we've walked that back in a very sudden chaotic way, which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people seeing their treatment interrupted mid course. Like I said earlier, it takes between four and six months of treatment to be cured. If that gets interrupted in the middle, even if your treatment gets restarted, you're very likely to develop drug resistant tuberculosis, which is a much, much more serious thing.

这就是亨利所经历的。我们知道，不幸的是，这些人中的大多数将会死亡。同样灾难性的是，这些人中的许多人将会在他们的社区中传播耐药结核病。我们已经看到结核病死亡率的上升。我认为在过去三个月里，发生了大约一万两千例所谓的‘超额死亡’。

That's what Henry was living with. And we know that most of those people will will die, unfortunately. And and just as catastrophically, many of those people will will circulate drug resistant tuberculosis in their own communities. We've already seen the rates of tuberculosis death go up. I think twelve thousand people, excess, quote, unquote, excess deaths, have happened in the last three months.

但随着时间的推移，这个数字会急剧上升，因为结核病是一种缓慢的杀手。

But it'll go up much more dramatically as time goes on because tuberculosis is a slow killer.

我是说，这就像一场缓慢燃烧的道德危机。这不仅仅是某个我不太关心的国家援助被削减那么简单。这是真正悲惨且完全可以避免的。

I mean, this is like a like a slow burning moral emergency. This isn't just like, oh, some aid got cut in this country that I don't care about so much. This is really tragic and utterly preventable.

没错，完全可以避免。而且说实话，这也很可怕，因为社区中传播的耐药性结核病越复杂，我们就越可能遇到更多根本无药可治的结核病例。我尽量不在全球健康问题上夸大其词，但必须明白，我们应对这场悲剧的主要原因是它正影响着数百万人的生命。

Yeah. Utterly preventable. And also, I mean, frankly, scary because the more complicated drug resistant tuberculosis you have circulating in communities, the more likely it is that we'll see more cases of TB that we simply don't have any tools to treat. I mean, I try not to be a person who who engages in hyperbole when it comes to global health. And I think it's important to understand that the main reason we need to respond to this tragedy is because it's affecting millions of human beings.

但还有另一个应对理由——如果我们不够谨慎，它将影响数十亿人。

But there is another reason to respond to this tragedy, which is that if we aren't careful, it will affect billions of human beings.

所以这一切糟透了。但其中一个原因是

And so this all is pretty sucky. But one of the reasons

劳里，你现在明白为什么我不是研究幸福的专家了吧？

Laurie, can you see why maybe I'm not an expert in happiness?

我知道。

I know.

我是说，听众会不会觉得'这家伙已经参透幸福真谛了'？

I mean, are the people listening to this like, oh, this guy's got happiness cracked?

他们好像在说，我上错播客了。发生了什么？不。但但这就是我如此喜爱你和你的工作的原因，约翰，因为在面对糟糕的事情时，你会让我们采取行动，对吧，你会让我们找到希望和主动权。所以当我们休息回来时，我们将讨论如何解决这个完全可以解决的全球结核病问题。

They're like, I'm on the wrong podcast. What has happened? No. But but this is the reason I love you and your work, John, so much is that in the face of sucky stuff, you have us do something, right, which is you have us find hope and find agency. And so when we get back from the break, we're gonna talk about what we can do to fix this totally fixable problem of beating TB around

世界各地。

the world.

而且我们会看到，采取行动解决这个问题会带来一系列意想不到的幸福益处。《约翰·格林的幸福实验室》，我们马上回来。

And we're gonna see that the act of taking action to fix it is gonna come with a bunch of happiness benefits that we might not even expect. Happiness Lab with John Green. We'll be right back.

你太棒了，伙计。我是说，太专业了。像我，我得录八遍才能搞定休息部分。

You crushed that, man. I mean, that's such a pro. Like, I I take, like, eight takes on my brakes.

什么是真正的好生活？是关于幸福、目标、爱情、健康还是财富？在追求美好生活的过程中，什么才是真正重要的？这些是获奖作家、创始人和访谈者乔纳森·菲尔德在他的顶级播客《美好生活项目》中向嘉宾提出的问题。每周，乔纳森都会与著名的思想家和实践者坐谈，比如亚当·格兰特、格雷琴·鲁宾、安吉拉·达克沃斯等数百人。

What does it even mean to live a good life? Is it about happiness, purpose, love, health, or wealth? What really matters in the pursuit of a well lived life? These are the questions award winning author, founder, and interviewer Jonathan Fields asks his guests on the top ranked Good Life Project podcast. Every week, Jonathan sits down with renowned thinkers and doers, people like Adam Grant, Gretchen Rubin, Angela Duckworth, and hundreds more.

现在就开始收听吧。在你最喜欢的播客应用上搜索《美好生活项目》。

Start listening now. Look for Good Life Project on your favorite podcast app.

我最喜欢的一句约翰·格林的话，可能是杜撰的，你可以告诉我，据说是这样的：现在世界上最朋克的事，就是以真诚和乐观的态度拥抱当前的问题。

One of my favorite John Green quotes, which might be apocryphal, you can tell me, is allegedly the following. The most punk rock thing to do in the world right now is to embrace the current problems with earnestness and optimism.

我确实说过那句话。

I did say that.

你确实说过。好吧，这很酷。就像，面对真正糟糕的事情，尤其是像全球健康问题和结核病这样严重的事情，直视它并说我们可以解决这个问题，这很朋克摇滚。那么现在正在听这个的大家，如何以真诚和乐观的态度来解决结核病问题呢？

You did say that. Okay. It's cool. Like, it's punk rock to, like, look in the face of something really sucky, especially something as bad as global health problems and TB and say, we can fix this. And so what's the best way that folks who are listening to this right now can fix the problem of TB with earnestness and optimism?

嗯，我认为有很多方式可以回应。我的意思是，仅仅我们的关注就很重要。我们更有可能解决我们关注的问题。当我们思考我们的注意力时，我们需要把它视为一种极其宝贵的资源，对吧？

Well, I think there's a bunch of ways we can respond. I mean, just our attention matters. Like, we we are much more likely to solve the problems we pay attention to. And when we think about our attention, we need to be thinking about it as a resource that's incredibly valuable. Right?

就像所有这些社交媒体公司都知道我们注意力的价值，我们也需要理解这一点。但我也认为我们可以做一些实际的事情。我们可以捐款给那些正在产生影响的组织，有很多方式可以对结核病产生影响。显然，有像'健康伙伴'这样的组织在直接对抗结核病，也有组织在整体上对抗营养不良和贫困，我们知道这是对抗结核病的有效途径。

Like, all these social media companies know the value of our attention, and we need to understand it too. But I also think that there are functional things that we can do. We can we can give to organizations that that are making a difference, and there are a lot of ways to make a difference with TB. So, obviously, there's organizations that are fighting TB itself like Partners in Health. There's also organizations that are fighting malnutrition and poverty overall, which we know is a good way to fight tuberculosis.

我们从美国和英国的历史中了解到，当贫困减少，当食物不安全状况改善时，结核病发病率也会下降。

We know from the history of The United States and The United Kingdom that when poverty goes down and when food insecurity goes down, tuberculosis rates also go down.

这意味着结核病的治疗方法并不在某个实验室里，你知道吗？我不需要去学习如何创造新的抗生素治疗方法。治疗方法其实就在我们的钱包里，甚至可能是我们钱包里的零钱。

And that means that the cure for tuberculosis isn't in some lab somewhere that you know? And I don't have to, like, learn about how to create new antibiotic cures. The cure is actually in our wallets and maybe, like, even small change that we have in our wallets.

是的。结核病在多大程度上是一个资源问题，这令人难以置信。当然我们也需要更好的工具。我们有优秀的研究人员，他们需要更多的支持，这样我们才能有更好的结核病疫苗。

Yeah. It is incredible the extent to which tuberculosis is a resource problem. Now we do need better tools. We we have great researchers. They need to be better supported so that we have better vaccines for TB.

我是说，我们现有的疫苗已有105年历史，效果并不理想。我们需要更短疗程的治疗方案，更好的诊断手段，所有这些都需要改进。

I mean, the only vaccine we have is a 105 years old. It's not very effective. We we need better shorter treatment regimens. We need better diagnostics. We need all of that stuff.

但如今我们已拥有治愈结核病的工具。目前能为患者提供93%的治愈率，关键在于充分运用这些工具。这罕见地成为一个主要因资源不足而未能解决的问题。

But we have the tools to cure tuberculosis today. We have the tools to to offer people, you know, ninety three percent cure rates today, and we just need to be using those tools. It's the rare problem that actually is mostly a resource problem.

今天，幸福实验室的部长们将有机会协助解决这个资源问题。幸福实验室的听众都知道，我们曾与GiveDirectly合作过。GiveDirectly是最具成本效益的扶贫方式之一，因为他们直接将资金给到受助者。有项研究特别有意思——关于直接发放现金对结核病防治的具体影响。约翰，不知道你是否了解这项研究？

And so today, Happiness Lab ministers are gonna get a chance to help fix that resource problem. If you're a fan of the Happiness Lab, you know we've worked with GiveDirectly before. GiveDirectly is one of the most effective, cost effective ways to reduce poverty because they just give people money directly. And one of the cool things is this is actually studies on, like, giving people cash directly and the effect it can have specifically on TB. John, I don't know if you know this study.

这项研究是在

It's one that was done in

巴西进行的？

In Brazil?

对。

Yeah.

没错。哦，那研究结果太惊人了。

Yeah. Oh, it's incredible.

你想解释一下吗？

Do you wanna explain?

是的。他们发现了。我是说，我可能会引用错误，然后你可以纠正我说的每一句话。但这就是业余人士发言后教授来纠正的本质，对吧？

Yeah. They found yeah. I mean, you'll I'll probably misquote it, and then you can fix you can fix everything I said. But that's that's the nature of the amateur speaking and then the professor speaking. Right?

就像，这就像是师生关系的核心。据我理解，这是在巴西一个贫困社区为抗击贫困而进行的无条件现金支付转移。而一个意想不到的副作用是，肺结核发病率下降了，我记得是百分之五十，下降幅度非常显著。

Like, that's like that's the student teacher relationship at its core. So my understanding is that there was unconditional cash payment, transfers to fight poverty in an impoverished community in Brazil. And an unexpected side effect of this was that rates of tuberculosis went down by, I believe, fifty percent, like, went down really dramatically.

百分之五十。我是说，百分之五十太疯狂了，因为你会觉得需要进来给每个人接种疫苗或者建医院。仅仅给人们一些钱，实际上就将结核病死亡率降低了百分之五十。

Fifty percent. I mean, fifty percent is is, like, bonkers because, like, you'd think that you need to come in and, like, vaccinate everybody or, like, had hospitals. Just giving people some money actually reduced the rates of TB deaths by fifty percent.

这提醒我们，人们知道如何花钱。生活在其中的人们比我更能判断如何支配他们的钱。这就是为什么我非常支持GiveDirectly，因为他们赋予人们做出适合自己财务决策的能力。结果我们看到食物不安全减少。

And this is a reminder that, like, people know how to spend money. Like, people people are much better judges. People living their lives are much better judges of how to spend their money than I ever could be. And so this is why I'm such a big fan of GiveDirectly is because they empower people to make financial decisions that work for them. And as a result, we see less food insecurity.

我们看到更多孩子上学，住房更安全。所有这些都有助于降低肺结核发病率，还有许多其他好处。

We see we see more kids going to school. We see safer housing. And all of that contributes to lower rates of tuberculosis among many other benefits.

那么谈谈为什么，在一个面临肺结核的社区，更多钱可能有帮助。我是从预防和一旦患病后的发现与治疗角度考虑的。

And so just talk about why, like, if you're in a community that's facing tuberculosis, this more money might help. Right? I'm thinking in terms of, like, prevention and then, like, finding out and treating the disease once you have it.

是的。这是一个显而易见的方式，对吧？你更有可能利用并受益于医疗保健系统。但还有一些不那么明显的方式。比如，你更可能拥有安全的住房，不必与许多人挤在一起，家里的通风条件可能稍好一些，我们知道这能降低结核病传播的风险。你可能负担得起更好的公共交通，乘坐不那么拥挤的交通工具。

Yeah. So that's one obvious way, right, is that you're more likely to be able to use the health care system and benefit from the health care system. But there are less obvious ways too. Like, you're more likely to have safe housing with, where maybe you aren't living cheek by jowl with lots of other people, where maybe you have a little bit better ventilation in your home, which we know reduces the the risk of transmitting TB. You might you might be able to, afford better public transportation, so you're on public transport that isn't quite as crowded.

这可以通过多种不同途径预防结核感染，同时也能通过让人们获得医疗保健系统来避免结核病导致的死亡。

There's a lot of different ways in which this could prevent TB infection, but it can also prevent TB death by allowing people to access the health care system.

你的书中提到塞拉利昂的疾病现实令人震惊——人们或许能获得治疗，甚至支付得起治疗费用，但治疗地点极其遥远，他们要么没钱乘坐公共交通，要么无法请假。最终他们得不到治疗，病情恶化，甚至可能发展成更棘手的耐药性结核病。

I mean, that was one of the things that was striking in your book where, you know, you just talk about the reality of this disease in Sierra Leone. You talk about how people might even have access to treatments, maybe the money for treatments, but treatment's super far away, and so they don't have the money for public transportation or they can't miss work. And then they wind up not getting treated, and the disease gets worse. Yeah. And maybe it turns into drug resistant disease, which is even worse.

资源在这里能发挥的作用简直超乎想象。

I mean, it's just incredible how much resources can help here.

没错。资源确实至关重要。我们这些生活在体系相对完善国家的人——或许我不该把自己归入这类，但我想我还是可以——常常忘记需要多少系统协同运作才能实现这些。

Yeah. Resources can really help. And then, you know, we we often those of us who live in countries with relatively strong systems, and maybe I shouldn't be including myself in that category, but I think I I think I still can. Those of us who live in countries with relatively strong systems forget sometimes how many systems have to work together for this stuff to happen. Right?

比如，你需要运转良好的交通系统，需要电力来维持冷链，需要配备冷链的卡车。保持疫苗低温需要大量工作。所有这些系统必须协同运作，我们才能对抗不公正导致的疾病。而另一个事实是：当人们摆脱贫困时，系统也会变得更强大。

Like, you need functioning transportation systems. You need electricity so that there can be cold chain, and you need trucks that have cold chain. And, like, in order to keep a vaccine cold is a tremendous amount of work. And so all of this stuff has to work together for us to fight diseases of injustice. And yet there is also the truth that, like, systems get stronger when people are less poor.

历史告诉我们这个道理，我们的历史也印证了这一点。因此我特别推崇像GiveDirectly这样的组织，他们以最彻底却又极其直白的方式对抗贫困。

We know this. We know this from history. We know it from our history. And so that's why I'm a big fan of an organization like GiveDirectly that, you know, fights poverty in the most radical and yet stunningly obvious way possible.

显而易见的方式。有趣的是，我们总是试图把慈善搞得很复杂，你懂的。就像非要引入中间人和各种繁琐程序。如果你之前听过我们的节目，了解我们与GiveDirectly的合作，就知道他们本质上做的就是所谓的无条件现金转账，直接给贫困人群。

Obvious way. It is funny how we, like, try to complicate, you know, charity. Yeah. Just like, we're gonna have middlemen and all this stuff. Like, and if you've heard the show before and heard our work with GiveDirectly before, you know that basically what GiveDirectly does is they give these so called unconditional cash transfers to people in poverty.

简单来说就是没有任何附加条件，没有官僚程序，没有中间商。最贫困的家庭直接拿到一笔现金。

Basically, that just means no strings attached, no bureaucracy, no middleman. Poorest families, just get a bunch of cash.

没错。

Yeah.

这次我们将与GiveDirectly合作，向结核病发病率最高国家的居民提供这种无条件现金援助。这些国家包括孟加拉国、肯尼亚、利比里亚、乌干达等地。

And what we're gonna do with GiveDirectly now is that we're going to actually give these unconditional cash transfers to people living in the countries with the highest TB rates. So these are be places like Bangladesh, Kenya, Liberia, Uganda.

哇。

Wow.

约翰，上次我们这么做时，为GiveDirectly筹集了超过10万美元。

Last time we did this, John, we raised over a $100,000 for GiveDirectly.

哇。

Wow.

我倾向于认为，只要有你参与，我们就能筹到更多资金，但这次我要做出承诺。上次我没这么做，但这次我承诺，将匹配幸福实验室听众前1万美元的捐款。这意味着如果听众捐出1万，我们自动就能达到2万美元。

I like to think that if you are involved, we're gonna get more money, but I'm gonna pledge. I didn't do this last time, but this time, I'm gonna pledge. I'm gonna match the first $10,000 of donations that we get from Happiness Lab listeners, which automatically puts us up to $20,000 if the Happiness Lab listeners give $10,000.

我将...我将匹配接下来的1万美元。

I will I will match the next $10,000.

天啊。如果我的计算没错，加上我们的匹配承诺，意味着我们已经能达到4万美元了。你们看到这位心理学教授正在心算的样子——

Oh my gosh. And if my math is correct and we're doing the matching, that means we already get up to $40,000. You see the professor the psych professor doing math in her head

是啊。

of Yeah.

十加十...

Ten ten plus 10.

这场景太美妙了。我确实...你的眼珠都翻上去了——对只听音频的听众们描述下：桑托斯博士试图计算10乘以4的样子，真是令人叹为观止。

It's a it's a beautiful thing to watch. I was I really I you like, your eyes rolled back in your head for those of you just listening. And it was really it was really a wonder to see doctor Santos try to multiply 10 times four.

不过谈谈吧，如果我们真能在这个援助资金大幅削减的时期筹集到这么多款项，可能带来哪些益处。

But talk talk about the benefits that we could see if we actually are able to raise this much money, especially during this time of so many aid cuts.

是的。我的意思是，这种改变带来的差异难以言表。我亲眼见证了朋友亨利从赤贫到脱贫的生活转变，一切确实变得更容易了。我举个例子。

Yeah. I mean, it's hard to overstate the difference that it makes. I mean, I've seen the difference that it made in in my friend Henry's life to go from living in absolute poverty to not. And and, you know, becomes easier. And I'll give you one example.

亨利在塞拉利昂大学就读的前两年半里，每天要花两小时去学校，再花两小时回家。你能想象这是多大的负担。在那些极度拥挤的卡车或公交车上，他根本无法学习。但后来他买得起摩托车了，现在可以直接往返学校。

Henry spent two hours going to school and two hours going from school every single day for the first two and a half years of his education at the University of Sierra Leone. So you can imagine what a burden that is. And he it's not like you can study on these incredibly crowded transports that he would be taking, the trucks or buses that he would be taking. But then he was able to afford a motorbike. And as a result, now he can go directly to school and come directly home.

这对他而言是方方面面的福祉。但我觉得，这还涉及到安全住房等问题。多年来亨利住的房子屋顶漏水，铁皮屋顶让他每晚都被淋湿。他说根本找不到干燥的地方铺床，母亲也总是湿漉漉的，这太折磨人了。

That's a blessing for him in every imaginable way. But I think, you know, it also comes down to things like safe housing. I mean, for years, Henry lived in in a home where the roof leaked. It was a a steel or tin roof and the roof leaked, And so he was wet every single night. He would tell me that there was no place that he could put his bedroll where he wouldn't be wet and where his mom wouldn't be wet, and that's that's miserable.

这不仅危害健康，还影响睡眠质量和心理健康。在贫困社区，微小的改变就能带来巨大的差异。

It's also bad for your health and, you know, bad for your quality of sleep, bad for your mental health. And so I I just think, like, small differences are big, big differences in impoverished communities.

最不可思议的是——虽然心理学本不必如此运作——但研究表明，如果你能用5美元、10美元帮助处于困境的人，你自己的幸福感也会提升。比起把钱花在自己身上买杯咖啡，助人能带来更强烈的快乐回报。你的研究还揭示了第二种幸福收益：当我们对糟糕处境采取行动时，会感觉世界没那么糟，从而重燃希望。我知道你常谈到这点。

And what's really incredible and, you know, the psychology didn't need to work this way, but it does, is that if you can do something to help somebody in that awful situation, even with, like, $5, $10, what the research really shows is that you'll be boosting your own happiness too. Turns out we get more of a happiness kind of bang for our buck by giving $5 in a way that will help somebody else than we do if we spend it on ourselves, blow it on a latte or something. But but some of your work shows the second way we get a happiness benefit from this, right, which is that when we take action about something that's sucky, we wind up feeling like the world is less sucky. We wind up doing something to, like, build our own hope up. And I know you've talked about this a lot.

当面对极度糟糕的状况时，实际着手改善反而能让人怀抱更多希望。

Like, in the face of just, like, things being really bad, actually trying to fix it can make you a little bit more hopeful.

确实。我向来难以早起，总忍不住盯着天花板发呆，或是无休止地刷手机直到再次入睡。这就是我一直以来的状态。

Yeah. It's always been hard for me to get out of bed in the morning. It is hard for me not just to stare at the ceiling. It is hard for me not just to scroll on my phone and doom scroll until it's bedtime again. Like, that's just that's just who I have always been.

对我来说，这一直都很困难。但我发现，绝对地，当我将更多资源、时间和注意力投入到世界的问题上时，我反而感觉更好，尤其是如果我不让自己被问题的洪流所淹没。对吧？比如，我并没有妄想地认为结核病是美国当前面临的唯一问题。对吧？

It's it's always been hard for me. And I have found I have found that absolutely that the more that I give of my resources, of my time, of my attention to problems of the world instead of feeling worse, I feel better, especially if I don't just let myself get overwhelmed by the fire hose of problems. Right? Like, I do not labor under the delusion that tuberculosis is the only problem that we're facing in The United States right now by any stretch of the imagination. Right?

但这是我选择尝试有所作为的地方。在某种程度上，这让应对其他问题的洪流变得更容易，因为我可以告诉自己，希望并相信其他人正在选择应对气候变化，或其他不公正现象，而我选择应对结核病，我觉得这是我特别有能力处理好的。而且我发现，这确实提升了我的幸福感。比如，我刚结束一场为期三周、筋疲力尽的新书巡回宣传。出发前，我对我妻子说，我回家时会像个空壳一样。

But it is the place where I feel like I have chosen to try to make a difference. And in some ways, that makes it easier to live with the rest of the fire hose because I can say, like, well, I I I hope other people and I believe other people are making the choice to to respond to climate change or other people are making the choice to respond to this injustice or that injustice because I'm making the choice to respond to tuberculosis, which, you know, I feel like I'm uniquely able to respond to well. And I do find I do find that that boosts my happiness. I mean, I just got off this grueling three week long book tour. And going into the book tour, I I told my wife, I was like, I'm gonna come home a shell of a person.

我以为我会身心俱疲、崩溃不堪，需要几个月才能恢复。但实际情况是，我回到家，虽然很高兴见到家人和狗狗，但完全没有那种感觉。相反，我感到振奋，因为在旅途中遇到了同样在努力让世界变得更美好的人，这种氛围本身就令人鼓舞。

I'm gonna come home destroyed and devastated and, like, it's gonna take me months to recover. And what actually happened is I got home, and I was really happy to see my family and really happy to see my dog, but, like, I didn't feel that way at all. I felt encouraged because I'd been on the road meeting people who are also fighting to make the world better, and that's just an encouraging thing to be around.

是的。而且研究还表明，实际付出多少并不重要。比如你完成了艰苦的巡回宣传并写了整本书，但如果听众只能捐3美元、5美元，那也足够了。我们上次GiveDirectly的活动中，大部分捐款都来自人们认为微不足道的小额捐赠。

Yeah. And and also what the research shows is, like, it doesn't actually matter how much you do. I mean, you went on a grueling book tour and wrote a whole book about this. But, like, if somebody's listening and all you can give is $3, $5, just do that. You know, our last GiveDirectly campaigns were were more made up of people giving incredibly small amounts of money amounts of money that they thought were small.

但事实证明，当我们齐心协力时，这些小额捐赠能产生巨大影响。

But it turns out when we all do it together, we can have this huge impact.

这不仅适用于金钱。对吧？倡导和行动主义也是如此。比如，成千上万的人联合起来要求强生公司放弃对贝达喹啉的专利，以及他们对贝达喹啉的二次专利尝试。

And that's true not just for money. Right? Like, that's also true for advocacy, for activism. You know, thousands of people came together to ask Johnson and Johnson, for instance, to abandon their patents on on on bedaquiline, their secondary patent attempts on bidacolin.

或许可以简单说明一下贝达喹啉是什么，以便……

And maybe just say what bidacolin is just so

我我我只是假设全世界都知道比达可林是什么。比达可林是治疗耐多药结核病的一种极其重要的药物，也是亨利急需却被告知负担不起的药物之一。成千上万的人齐心协力完成了一件单打独斗无法实现的事。我认为这恰恰是常态——我们常感到无力，而这种无力感往往源于孤独，觉得自己的3美元或给议员的邮件无足轻重。

I I I just assume that the world knows what bidacolin is. Bidacolin is a really important drug for treating multidrug resistant tuberculosis and one of the drugs that Henry really needed and was told that he couldn't afford. And so thousands of people coming together to make that accomplish something that no one could have accomplished in isolation. And I think that's very much and very often the case is that we feel powerless. But one of the reasons we feel powerless is because we feel like we're alone, and our $3 or our email to our congressperson doesn't matter much.

但当你属于一个庞大社群时——比如幸福实验室的听众们——你的3美元就意义非凡，因为它不再是孤立的3美元，而是与千万人的3美元共同汇聚的力量。

But when you're part of a huge community, and you are part of a huge community, if you're part of the Happiness Lab community, then your $3 matters more because it's not $3. It's $3 in partnership with thousands of other people's $3.

请用让你对抗击结核病等糟糕事物充满希望的原因作结，特别是当这种抗争发生在群体协作中时。

And so end us off on what makes you hopeful about fighting TB and fighting other sucky stuff when you can do that in the context of a community.

我从你和我的心理医生那里学到，压抑或否认负面情绪并非解决之道——那只是看似轻松的捷径。此刻我正直面诸多负面情绪，但我在将其转化为希望而非绝望。我相信结核病诊断技术会进步，疫苗会改良，虽然人类健康在最近数月遭遇重创，但这绝非终点。

Well, I think, you know, I've one of the things I've learned from you and from my therapist is that pushing negative emotions to the side or ignoring them or trying to deny them is not the right way. It's the maybe the easy way and the way that sort of makes a kinda common sense, but it just doesn't work very well. And so I'm engaging with a lot of negative emotions right now, but I'm using them to fuel fuel hope instead of using them to fuel despair. That's what I'm trying to do anyway, to fuel hope that better diagnostics are coming for TB, that maybe a better vaccine is coming, and if you will hope that, yes, like, we have fallen down the staircase of human health in the last few months, but that's not permanent. This isn't the end of the story.

这仅是故事的中间章节，而我们手握书写美好结局的笔。

This is the middle of the story, and it really falls to us to write a better ending.

这个结局能包含你对听众说'别忘了保持酷炫'吗？那会非常棒。

Can part of that ending be you saying to my listeners, don't forget to be awesome because that would be really cool?

当然。正如我家乡的俗话：朋友们，别忘了保持酷炫。

Yes. They say in my hometown, friends, don't forget to be awesome.

肺结核，可怕的疾病，但仅是贫困的产物。我们可以解决它。若我们视贫困与结核病为紧急事件，通过直接捐赠就能提供帮助。幸福实验室的听众们，请访问givedirectly.org/tb。让我和约翰（显然）各捐出一万美元，共同解决这个完全可以通过集体努力解决的问题。

So tuberculosis, terrible disease, but only a disease of poverty. We can fix it. And if we wanna treat poverty like the emergency it is and TB like the emergency it is, we can help by giving to give directly. So Happiness Lab listeners, go visit givedirectly.org/tb. Make me and John, apparently, pony up our $10,000 to fix something that is totally fixable with our collective effort.

约翰，非常感谢你来到幸福实验室。你绝对是幸福专家，虽然你自己不这么认为。

John, thank you so much for coming on The Happiness Lab. You totally are a happiness expert. I know you don't think that.

但我真心喜欢这个说法。这周我要告诉我的治疗师：乔·艾伦，你知道吗？根据幸福专家的说法，我自己也算是个小小幸福专家呢！

But I really I love that. I'm gonna tell my therapist that this week. I'm gonna say, did you know, Jo Ellen, I am, according to a happiness expert, a bit of a happiness expert myself?

我已经能想象到翻白眼的样子了

I'm gonna see the eyes rolling in

本期节目。衷心感谢约翰·格林抽空交谈，更令人惊喜的是他将匹配各位的捐款，最高达一万美元。我完全没想到他会如此慷慨。如果这个完全可解决的结核病问题让你想要减少世界苦难并自我感觉良好，请考虑捐赠任意金额至givedirectly.org/tb。重复一遍：givedirectly.org/tb。

this program. Thanks so much to John Green for taking the time to chat with me, and I'm just thrilled that he's also going to be matching up to $10,000 in donations from all of you. I had no idea he'd be willing to do that. So if hearing about this totally fixable problem of TB has made you excited to help decrease world suck and make yourself feel awesome, please consider giving whatever you're comfortable sharing to givedirectly.org/tb. That's givedirectly.org/tb.

说真的，任何金额都有帮助。哪怕捐出五美元，也能让我们作为共同体解决重要问题。我知道当下时局艰难且充满不确定性，但研究表明采取积极行动会让你感觉更好。只需在givedirectly.org/tb捐赠一美元即可实现。再次强调：givedirectly.org/tb。

Seriously, anything is helpful. Even tossing $5 towards this important cause can help us all come together as a community to fix something important. I know these times feel very tough and very uncertain, but research shows that you'll likely feel a lot better about this big mess if you take some positive action. And you can do that with just a dollar donated at givedirectly.org/tb. That's givedirectly.org/tb.

我和约翰最近还为庆祝他的新书《万物皆结核》发行录制了现场活动。尽管主题沉重，我们仍玩得很开心，甚至以我最爱的合唱结束了当晚。

John and I also recently recorded a live event to celebrate the release of his new book, Everything is Tuberculosis. We had a lot of fun despite the subject matter and even ended the evening with my favorite thing ever, a sing along.

我们之所以在这里

We're here because

我们在这里是因为我们在这里是因为我们在这里。我们在这里是因为我们在这里是因为我们在这里是因为我们在这里。我将作为特别福利放出那期节目。敬请期待它即将在《幸福实验室》中播出，我是劳里·桑托斯医生。

we're here because we're here because we're here. We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here. I'm going to drop that show as a special bonus. So look out for it coming soon on The Happiness Lab with me, Doctor. Laurie Santos.

欢迎收听《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市阿德里亚健康研究所女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将与顶尖研究人员和临床医生对话，解答你们迫切的问题，将关于女性健康与中年期的信息直接传递给你们。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。这对我们的生活质量可能是场严峻考验。但即便这是自然过程，我们为何要默默忍受？

A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

人们常讨论的症状类型包括遗忘一切。我以前从不会忘事。她们一方面担心自己患有痴呆症，另一方面又在想：我是不是得了注意力缺陷多动症？

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia, and the other one is do I have ADHD?

大麻和大麻素在改善睡眠方面展现出前所未有的潜力，

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better,

减轻疼痛、提升情绪以及改善日常生活方面。请在任意播客平台收听伊丽莎白·波因特医生主持的《解码女性健康》。本节目由iHeart电台出品。

to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with doctor Elizabeth Pointer wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.