人工智能改变消费者投资方式，Asana的AI代理，数字健康革命 | 2025年9月25日

欢迎各位收看《信息》TI TV节目。我是阿卡什·马斯里查。今天是9月25日星期四。各位观众，今天我们将全面探索科技领域。稍后我们将与Forerunner Ventures的柯尔斯滕·格林探讨消费科技话题。

Welcome everyone to the Information's TI TV. My name is Akash Masricha. It is Thursday, September 25. We are taking a full tour of the tech sector today, folks. We are talking consumer with Kirsten Green from Forerunner Ventures who is coming on the show in just a minute.

我们还将邀请Sword Health的创始人登场，与他探讨数字健康产业的现状。随后我们将对话Asana的首席运营官，他们今天将发布一些新产品。最让我期待的是与财经专栏作家关于甲骨文估值的讨论——过去几周，这家公司在AI领域已成为绝对焦点。不过在开始前，我想先重点介绍今早《信息》发布的一篇报道。

We've also got the founder of Sword Health coming on the show. We're going to talk to him about the business of digital health. We're then going to talk with the chief operating officer of Asana. They've got some new products coming out today, and I am really excited about a conversation that we've got planned with our financial analysis columnist about Oracle's valuation, which has obviously become very much a center of attention in the land of AI over the past few weeks. But before we get going with that, I want to highlight for you a story that we just put out this morning at The Information.

近期投资银行家们在数据中心交易领域忙得不可开交，科技巨头们对此需求旺盛。今天我们整理了一份11位值得关注的银行家名单：包括促成Scale AI与Meta 290亿美元交易的Centerview成员，以及操盘Coreweave以17亿美元收购Weights & Biases的Catalyst Partners合伙人。

Investment bankers have been busier than ever lately with data center deals that big tech companies cannot get enough of. And so today, we've put together a list of 11 bankers who should absolutely be on your radar. We've got someone from Centerview on the list. He brought together the Scale AI and Meta deal for $29,000,000,000. We've got someone from Catalyst Partners who did Coreweave's deal to buy weights and biases for $1,700,000,000.

名单中还有来自高盛、摩根士丹利和摩根大通的行业领袖。这是篇精彩报道，我们会在节目备注中添加链接。现在有请第一位嘉宾。

There are also leaders from Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and JPMorgan. It is a great story. We will make sure to link it in the show notes. Okay. Let's get to our first guest.

Forerunner Ventures凭借其构建的投资组合已成为最令人振奋的风投公司之一，旗下多家消费科技初创企业已成为家喻户晓的品牌，包括Chime、Aura、Glossier、Hedway以及Hims and Hers。现在有请公司创始人柯尔斯滕·格林，首次做客本节目探讨消费行业现状。

Forerunner Ventures has become one of the most exciting venture firms around because of the portfolio that it has built. It has many consumer startups that have become household names in the land of tech. It has invested in Chime, Aura, Glossier, Hedway, Hims and Hers. I want to bring on the founder of the firm, Kirsten Green, to talk about this moment for the business of consumer. It's her first time on the show.

柯尔斯滕，欢迎来到TI TV，非常高兴你能来。

Kirsten, welcome to TI TV. It's great to have you.

你好阿卡什，很荣幸受邀。感谢你如此精彩的介绍。

Hi, Akash. It's great to be here. Thank you for that really nice introduction.

我们要讨论的内容很多，时间却有限，但我们会尽力充分利用。我想以这样的方式开场：我希望得到克尔斯滕·格林关于2025年如何打造一家伟大消费品公司的蓝图，因为一切已今非昔比。然而，我不确定，伟大的消费品公司，考虑到人们行为方式的变化，真的与十五年前有本质区别吗？请谈谈你的看法。

So we have so much to get to and so little time, but we're going to try to make the most of it here. Look, I think the way I kind of want to start things off is I want the Kirsten Green blueprint on how to build a great consumer company in 2025, because so much has changed. And yet, I don't know, a great consumer company, I mean, is it really that different than it was fifteen years ago with the way people's behaviors are? Talk to us about how you think about that.

好的。我热爱这个话题和这个时代，因为新技术创造的新可能性确实促使人们重新思考什么是卓越的产品、服务或体验。我绝非建议忽视过往经验和现有行为模式，但我认为此刻正需要退后一步，发挥想象力。以勇敢的思维和方式拥抱新技术，不要畏惧尝试新事物。

Okay. I love this topic and I love this moment because I do think that new technology that creates new possibilities sort of begs people to really rethink what an amazing product or service or experience is. And I'm certainly not suggesting that we don't consider past learnings and existing behaviors, but I do think it's a moment to really allow yourself to step back, and be imaginative. Be courageous with your thinking and your approach, and play with the new technology. And don't be afraid to try new things.

回顾历史上许多突破性时刻，新产品面世时人们可能觉得难以理解、与自己无关。但早期采用者会带动更多人，从而形成风潮。这才是变革发生的真正契机。我们整个行业最令人兴奋的，正是此刻手握新技术去发明未来、创造当下的可能性。

I think that if you look back on many of the past breakout moments, they might've come to market and people might've thought, I don't get it. That's not for me, whatever. And then, you know, there's early adopters, they bring people along, and a movement starts. And that's really where change happens. And I do think that, you know, that's a big thing that we're excited about in general in this industry is, you know, inventing the future and And inventing right now we have new technology to play with.

创造非凡

Do amazing

你认为人工智能已经永久改变了消费品领域吗？

you think that AI has changed the consumer category forever?

我认为人工智能永久改变了几乎所有领域。

I think AI has changed most everything forever.

对吧？

Right?

关于消费者类别，我实际上认为我们正处于

And with respect to the consumer category, I actually think we're

一个非常有趣的时刻，回顾许多技术突破，其采用速度往往较慢。但这次是前所未有的

at this really interesting moment where if you look back on many of the technology breakthroughs, it's been slower to get adoption. This has been unprecedented

消费者端的采用速度。我认为消费者一直是这一采用阶段的主导者。部分原因是我们处于一个更加互联的数字世界，每个人都在线尝试新事物。但另一个原因是消费者当前对AI的体验是神奇的。我认为这既是机遇，也是当前的挑战之一。

speed of adoption on the consumer side. And I would argue that consumers have been leading this adoption period. And one part of it is because we're in a much more connected digital world and everybody is online trying things. But another reason is because consumers' experience of AI right now is its magic. And I think that that actually is the opportunity, but it's also one of the challenges right now.

因为我们这些构建者更多将其视为具有魔力而非魔法。区别在于，实现这一点需要大量工作。因此我认为，在许多方面，消费者对可能性和应有体验的预期目前超过了实际构建进度。这既是当下时机的机遇，也是挑战。

Because I think all of us that are here building it, we think of it more as magical than magic. And the difference is, is that it's a lot of work to bring that to life. And so I would characterize it as in many ways the consumer's expectation for what's possible or what should happen is ahead of the build right now. And that's one of the, you know, again, opportunities and challenges of this moment in time.

没错。

Right.

几个月前你们举办了'人类在循环'会议，我观看了会后的一些采访回顾。讨论中提到如何应对房间里的大象——像OpenAI这样拥有大量资源可以多领域下注的大型科技公司，尤其是消费者领域。你多次指出某些垂直领域似乎不会被这些大公司主导？我想问的是，你认为哪些垂直领域还有空间，他们无法完全占领市场和消费者？

So you had this conference a couple months ago, the Humans in the Loop Conference, and I was watching some of the interviews you did after that conference, recapping it. One of the things you mentioned came up during the discussion was how do you deal with the 800 pound gorillas in the room, the open AIs, the large tech companies who have a lot of resources to invest and spread their bets across a number of applications, not the least of which are consumer bets. And the point that you made in a lot of these was that there are verticals, or there appear to be verticals, where those large companies won't actually dominate? And what I want to ask you is what are the verticals where you think there is room and where they won't actually capture all the market and consumer?

这是个包含两部分的问题。首先关于作为新人或弱势方如何在这些平台巨头存在时进入市场——历史上有大量科技巨头推出的失败产品。大公司自以为拥有受众和资源，自然会在边缘领域尝试看似激动人心的项目。

Okay. So it's a two part question here. And I think on the first point about just like, how do you navigate being new or being the underdog sort of to come to market when there's these big platform players? I think that if you look back on history, there is a sea of failed products that have been launched by big tech companies. Big tech companies thinking they have the audience, thinking they have the resources, and, you know, as natural, you're playing around the edges because something sounds exciting.

但关键在于执行，在于你理解市场特定细分领域、特定需求的精准程度。要知道，大公司曾多次失败，而新公司正是在这种背景下崛起的。因此我认为人们应该记住这种可能性。最理想的情况或许是某家大公司开始引入新理念，为你的市场铺路。但如果你能以精准度、专业知识和想象力切入，机会确实存在——历史已多次证明这点，我相信这次也会重演，新的颠覆者终将出现。

But the execution, the kind of precision at which you understand that particular slice of the market, that particular need, you know, like they have failed many times and new companies have come to rise in that context. And so I think that people should keep that in mind that it's a possibility. And maybe a best case scenario is you have a big company that's starting to introduce ideas, that's starting to prime the market for you. But if you come at it with precision, with expertise, with imagination, like there is a possibility, and it's been proven in history, and I think it will play out again this time, where new new can emerge.

能否举例说明某个领域已引入理念但执行未达预期，这可能蕴藏着机会？

And is there an example of an area here where you feel like the idea may have been introduced, but the execution isn't going as well as it could be, and maybe that poses an opportunity?

比如看看ChatGPT上周发布的用户使用报告，数据非常有趣。对我而言，这就是机会路线图。虽然部分属于他们的机遇，但根据我刚才说的框架，这也是所有人的机会。他们当前的版本真的做到极致了吗？

Well, think so if you look at ChatGPT put the report out last week about the ways in which people are using ChatGPT. It was fascinating. To me, that's a roadmap of opportunity. Yes, that's partly their opportunity, but it's everybody else's opportunity for the same framework I'm saying now. Is their version of that the best it can possibly be?

虽然这么说可能有些冒昧——Perplexity正在试水购物领域。但你的购物习惯因此改变了吗？显然没有，这很难。究竟需要什么条件？我支持所有参与者尝试，因为这能推动行业发展。

You know, at the risk of, I think, perplexity is playing with shopping. Have you changed your shopping habits to go there yet? Like, no, it's hard. Like, what does it take to do it? I mean, I'm rooting for all these players to do it because I think it's part of what brings the industry along.

但当企业试图面面俱到时，往往难以打造垂直领域的极致体验。就像Akash（希望这话听起来不像盲目乐观），我认为那张图表上的每个领域都充满机会。例如OpenAI明确表示专注科学和健康领域——这毫不意外，这些都是超级大类目。

But I think while you're trying to be good at so many things, like it's very hard to nail a particular verticalized experience. Right. And so actually Akash, like without, you know, hopefully not sounding like a Pollyanna, I think everything on that chart is kind of fair game. Now OpenAI for instance has come and said they're really interested in science, they're really interested in health, no surprise. Those are huge, big categories.

这些领域能一刀切吗？一个大类目下存在多少细分市场和体验？我认为非常多。如今多数巨头企业，几乎无一例外都是从市场切入点起步的。这正是我们当前寻找的——哪位创始人既有雄心壮志，又展现出早期信号表明他可能成为领军者，同时能精准把握当下市场需求，借此建立信誉和商业基础。

Is that a one size fits all? How many big markets and experiences are there to be had inside of that one category? I would argue a lot. I think in most cases, companies that are big, huge scaled companies now, and very often, if not always, they started with a wedge into the market. So it's kind of one of the things we're looking for right now, which is where's that founder that has the ambition, has sort of the early signals that say like, I could imagine this person being the leader of a big company kind of continuing to push further, but has a focused precision about how to meet the market right now and use that as an opportunity to build credibility and business foundation.

没错。你提到健康领域，这确实是我们节目想多探讨的方向。你们基金是Aura的投资方，我知道有位合伙人担任其董事。本周Aura捷报频传：公布了戒指销量数据，据报道正以近110亿美元的估值融资。我想探讨业务本身，但先说说——110亿美元估值，你觉得合理吗？

Right. You talked about health, and health is certainly an area that we're trying to talk more about on the show. Your firm is investors in Aura, and I know one of your partners has a board seat on the company, and it's been an exciting week of news for Aura. The company put out some news about how many rings they've sold, and also it's been reported that they are raising money at a valuation just shy of $11,000,000,000 And I I wanna talk about the business, but tell us, 11,000,000,000. Sound Does about right to you?

我是说，我并不是确认这些事情的人。我相信公司会在适当的时候发布公告。但我觉得，正如你所说，这是一个令人兴奋的故事。我要特别感谢我的合作伙伴，我认为，确切地说，我知道他一直是公司了不起的支持者和建设性伙伴。

I mean, I'm not the one to confirm these things. I'm sure the company will make announcements when the time is right. But I think, you know, to your point, like this is an exciting story. And a shout out to my partner who I think has been, I know has been an incredible champion and constructive partner to the company.

没错。汤姆曾做客节目，实际上就在这期节目里，他首次透露了公司2024年的营收数据——5亿，而且根据目前报道，预计今年还会翻倍。具体数字我们到时候会知道。不过我想问的是，你个人认为——当然，我们之后应该邀请你的合作伙伴来深入讨论——你认为Aura的业务在两三年后会发展到什么程度？

Right. Had Tom on the show and, you know, he actually, on this show, he revealed the company's 2024 revenue figures for the first time, 500,000,000, which is, you know, it's, again, projected to double this year. It's according to reports right now, so we'll get that when the time comes. What I do want to ask you about though is where you and look, at some point we should have your partner on the show to talk more about this. But where do you see Aura's business going two, three years from now?

因为现在有种趋势是产品越来越医疗化对吧？你看很多可穿戴设备公司，甚至Eight Sleep都在申请FDA认证，WHOOP也在朝这个方向与FDA合作。你觉得这个趋势会如何发展？获得FDA认证现在算是竞争优势吗？

Because there is sort of this trend around things becoming more medical, right? You know, you see some of these wearables companies now, a lot of them now, you know, even Eight Sleep looking to apply for FDA approval for their products, right? You know, we have WHOOP also moving in that direction of working with the FDA on things. I mean, where do you see this going? Is getting FDA approval, is that like the competitive advantage now?

随着研究进展，企业获得认证会不会更容易？在健康领域你如何看待这个问题？

Does it become easier for companies as the research evolves? How do you think of that in the health context?

好的。我认为在这个语境下的竞争优势，比如说Aura已经有550万枚戒指戴在用户手上，而且这个数字正在呈指数级增长。当这么多用户持续使用产品并分享数据时，我认为这对市场释放了极强的信号，也是持续发展的庞大用户基础。

Okay. So I would say like a competitive advantage in this context is like, for instance, Aura having 5,500,000 rings on people's fingers and that number growing at a really exponential rate. It's increasing where it's been before. And if you have that many people that are engaged with that product, are sharing data, I mean, I think that that is an incredible signal to the market. It's an incredible audience to keep building from.

就像你指出的，如果把健康看作一个大类别，这个领域有无数发展方向。FDA认证固然重要，但取决于企业目标。除此之外还有医学研究、保险业务、以及影响用户未来健康决策的方方面面。这就是个很好的市场切入点案例——通过睡眠重要性建立消费者关系，提供健康监测工具，现在正携手用户探索更多可能。

And if you think about imagining as you identified health as a big category, all the different places that you can go from health in that sphere. Like, okay, yes, there's the FDA topics. It I depends on what you want to do if that's a critical advantage to go there too. But there's everything from kind of medical research, there's all of the insurance aspect, there's all of the ways in which these are guiding people's decisions about their future health routines and their future health purchases. So this is a great example of like that wedge into the market, being that consumer relationship that got built around communicating the importance of sleep, giving them a tool to understand the sleep in the context of their health, and now saying, Okay, let's go on this together further.

我们还能做什么？这个团队充满雄心。他们完全可以从这里出发，通过多种方式将公司发展成真正的综合健康平台。Aura就是个典型案例，也是我们之前讨论的消费级产品的典范。

What else can we do? And this team has that ambition. I think they have, you know, so many ways that they can build the company out from there to really be a full fledged health platform. Right. And, you know, that's Aura as a use case, but that's an example of what we were talking about before in consumer.

好的。在我们结束前最后一个问题。你知道，在消费领域有个双城记式的现象，很多消费类公司迅速崛起，但我们也看到不少电商企业上市后业务就开始挣扎。如果单就电商领域而言，你如何看待这两种现实的矛盾？

Right. Last question for you before we let you go. You know, there is sort of this tale of two cities stories, I guess, in consumer, which is that a lot of these consumer companies that get big, they get big really fast. And then we've seen companies, certainly in the e commerce world, going public, and their businesses have struggled sort of, you know, since the time they've gone public. How do you kind of square these two realities, you know, maybe if we just narrow it to e commerce?

我们可以聚焦电商，也可以扩展到整个市场乃至更广阔的消费领域。我认为这某种程度上是企业生命周期的问题，就像一段必经的旅程。有些公司凭借愿景、执行力和机遇持续壮大，而有些则会停滞不前——这可能源于团队执行力不足。

We can narrow it to e commerce or we can expand it out to the whole market and even beyond consumer. I I do think it's like, in some ways, the life cycle of a company, and it's like the the the journey that you go on. And some companies have the vision and the execution and the opportunity to keep getting bigger and keep expanding from where they are. And some companies stall out. And that can be, you know, that can be the execution of the team.

可能是团队视野局限，可能是对市场变化反应迟钝，也可能是被后来者以绝对优势超越，导致原有竞争优势丧失。如果要总结的话，我认为关键在于永远不能有'已经赢了'的心态，必须持续把握机遇，永远瞄准下一个目标。

It can be the vision of the team. It can be changes in the market that weren't responded to in the moment. It can be letting somebody come in and being that much better than you that whatever was your competitive advantage, you didn't step into. So I think that, you know, if you had to summarize it, I would call it, it's a case of like, you can never let yourself think that you won. You just need to think you keep having an opportunity and what's next and aiming towards that.

太棒了。克里斯汀，非常感谢你参加节目。你管理的投资组合令人振奋，期待未来有更多消息时能继续邀请你。这位是先行者创投创始人克里斯汀·格林。好的。

Great. Well, Kirsten, thank you so much for coming on the show. An exciting portfolio that you have, and I'm excited to have you on more and more as there is more news to come of it. That is Kirsten Green, the founder at Forerunner Ventures. Okay.

甲骨文昨日将最新债券发行规模从150亿美元上调至180亿美元，这批债券的最长期限达40年。这显然是为其与OpenAI等AI公司超过3000亿美元的云合同融资，更不用说正在建设的众多数据中心。现在有请安妮塔·拉莫斯瓦米来聊聊甲骨文当前的估值——它虽未跻身'美股七巨头'，但已常被与那些科技巨头相提并论。

Oracle upsized its latest debt offering yesterday from $15,000,000,000 to $18,000,000,000 The company is selling bonds that mature as far out as forty years from now. This, of course, is all part of the company's way of funding the more than $300,000,000,000 in cloud contracts it has with OpenAI and other AI companies. Let's not forget, it is also building all of those data centers. I want to bring on Anita Ramoswami to talk about Oracle's valuation in this moment, because it is not yet a Mag-seven company. It's not quite that big yet, but it is certainly talked about in the same vein as those large tech companies.

安妮塔，欢迎回到节目。很高兴见到你。

Anita, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you.

很高兴回来，阿卡什。

Great to be back, Akash.

那么我们来谈谈甲骨文公司。你上周写了篇很棒的文章，我正想讨论，但你对这周的债券发行有什么看法？

So let's talk about Oracle. You wrote this great piece last week that I want to get to, but what did you make of the bond sale this week?

这次债券发行其实是我上篇文章观点的延伸——关于甲骨文致力于成为云服务提供商的战略。云计算是资本密集型行业，甲骨文需要筹集大量债务资金，以便为那些需要租用数据中心进行AI业务的客户提供服务。

So the bond sale is kind of an extension of what I was talking about in my last piece, which was Oracle's push to become a cloud provider. Cloud computing is a really capital intensive business, and Oracle needs to raise a ton of debt in order to serve some of these customers where they're going be providing data centers for rental to their customers for AI.

没错。你上周分析了该公司的估值，其中最有意思的观点是：按倍数计算，其估值八年来首次超过了微软。作为专栏作家，你习惯对估值高低发表见解。对此你怎么看？

Right. Now you wrote last week about the company's valuation. Then one of the most interesting points you made is that the valuation as of last week on multiples basis, It's higher than Microsoft for the first time in eight years. And you you are our columnist, which means you like to take a stance on whether or not things are too high or too low. What did you make of that?

你认为这个估值过高吗？你接触的人对此有何看法？

Do you think this is too high? What are the people you're talking to thinking about it?

考虑到交易中的固有风险，我认为这有点荒谬。让我简单回顾下背景，Akash——几周前甲骨文公布财报时股价暴涨，是因为他们宣布获得了大量合约收入（后来披露主要来自OpenAI）。这些合约将推动未来云收入增长：目前云基础设施业务仅占总收入五分之一左右，而公司预计到2030年2月该业务将占总收入四分之三。这是极其迅猛的增长扩张。

I think it's a little ridiculous given the risks that are inherent in the deal. So, you know, just to run it back for a second, Akash, the reason that Oracle stock skyrocketed a couple weeks ago when they reported their earnings is because Oracle said that they had a lot of contracted revenue, majority of it coming from OpenAI, which was reported later. And that contracted revenue is going to increase their future cloud revenue to, you know, from right now, their cloud infrastructure business is around one fifth or less of their total revenue. And they're saying by 02/1930, that business is going to be around three fourths of Oracle's total revenue. So that's massive growth and massive expansion.

我完全理解分析师和投资者的兴奋情绪，股价至今仍比财报发布时（也就是我写专栏时）高出20%以上。市场热情可以理解，但与此同时，甲骨文的扩张战略伴随着诸多风险和挑战，这些收入远未成定局。我认为投资者现在有些得意忘形了。

And I can definitely understand why analysts, investors got excited, bit up the stock. It's still trading about more than 20% higher than it was, you know, when it reported its earnings and when I wrote my column. And so I can understand why there's exuberance in the market. But at the same time, there are so many risks and challenges that could come with Oracle's push, that revenue is far from guaranteed at this point. So I think investors are getting a little bit over their skis here.

微软在云业务领域拥有长期成功经验，而甲骨文当前估值倍数八年来首次大幅反超微软——我认为这种溢价目前是缺乏合理依据的。

I don't think it's justified at this point that Oracle is trading at a much higher multiple than even Microsoft for the first time in eight years when Microsoft has had a long track record of owning and running their own cloud business.

那么这些风险具体是什么？

And what are those risks?

我认为投资者讨论的最大风险是，如果真如报道所言，大部分收入确实来自OpenAI——要知道OpenAI是一家初创公司，他们正以数十亿美元的速度烧钱。他们最终真能支付这笔费用吗？我们不清楚合同的具体结构，但这无疑是一个风险点。特别是对甲骨文而言，能否找到除OpenAI外的其他客户来填补产能缺口，这是许多分析师的论点。他们表示，即便OpenAI合作失败，也会有其他AI客户愿意使用甲骨文的云服务器。

So I think the biggest one investors have been talking about is, you know, if the majority of the revenue really is coming from OpenAI, as the reporting has suggested that, you know, OpenAI is a startup, they're burning billions of dollars in cash. Can they really pay this at the end of the day? We don't know, you know, the details around how the contract is structured, but that's certainly one risk. I think for Oracle in particular, you know, whether or not they can get a different customer besides OpenAI to sort of fill that capacity, which is what a lot of analysts are arguing. You know, if OpenAI falls through, they're saying there will be other AI customers that will want to use Oracle's cloud servers.

但即便这种情况发生，甲骨文本质上仍是一家软件企业。它销售数据库、企业资源规划软件等帮助企业日常运营的产品，而非云计算业务。

But even if that happens, Oracle fundamentally today is a software business. It sells software. It sells databases. It sells enterprise resource planning software for businesses to manage their day to day functions. It is not a cloud computing business.

云计算对甲骨文而言是全新且初生的业务线，利润率本就较低。因此投资者最担忧的是：甲骨文转型这一领域需要投入多少资本？这将如何消耗其现金储备？近年来甲骨文的自由现金流首次转负，长期来看，其利润率可能大幅下滑。

That's a really new and nascent line of business, and that's fundamentally lower margin. So I think one of the biggest risks for investors looking at Oracle's pivot into this area is how much capital is it going to take? How is that going to drain Oracle's cash reserves? Already, we've seen for the first time in years Oracle's free cash flow dipped into the negative recently. And, you know, on an ongoing basis, it could mean that their long term margins come down quite significantly.

四十年对这些债券来说期限太长了。我不像...这么说吧，我完全不关注债券市场。四十年在我看来很漫长。你的消息源对此有何看法？

Forty years is a long time horizon for these bonds. I don't follow the bond market, you know, as closely as Well, let me put it this way. I don't follow it at all. You know, forty years to me seems long. So what are your sources telling you about what they're thinking about that?

没错，四十年期债券极为罕见，而甲骨文已负债累累。他们目前总负债超过1100亿美元，手头现金仅约100亿（本次发债前）。我们早预料到甲骨文会重返债务市场融资。

Yeah. So a forty year bond is highly unusual and Oracle's already really indebted. I mean, they're on the hook for over $110,000,000,000 in total debt and they only have about $10,000,000,000 in cash on hand. That was before this bond offering. So we kind of knew and we anticipated Oracle is going to go to the debt markets.

目前市场似乎愿意承接这笔交易，但四十年期限实际上为债券投资者降低了风险——相当于给甲骨文四十年来全额还款。不仅如此，正如我们报道的，这批债券利率略高于甲骨文这种规模企业通常获得的水平，这一差异也体现在交易条款中。

And right now it seems like people are willing to fund the deals, but a forty year duration really derisks this kind of deal for bond investors because they're essentially giving Oracle forty years to pay back the full amount of money. Not only that, but the interest rate on these bonds, as you know, we've reported, is actually a bit higher than the typical interest rate extended to your corporation that's the size of Oracle. And so I think that that's reflected in the terms of the deal.

没错。刚才你提到利润率作为业务长期前景的潜在风险。我想知道，与你交谈的人是否对云公司、AI公司和芯片公司之间这种现金循环流动毫无担忧？我的意思是，这难道不是一场即将爆发的混乱吗？

Right. Now you talked about the margins as a potential risk in terms of the long term prospects of the business. I wonder if the people you're talking to, do they not have any concern about sort of the circular flow of cash here between the cloud companies and the AI companies and the chip companies? I mean, is that not a I mess waiting to happen

阿卡什，与你这观点高度相关的另一则新闻，就是刚宣布的OpenAI与英伟达的合作意向书。OpenAI将接受英伟达的资本投资，然后利用其中大部分资金投入计算基础设施——这笔钱很可能又回流到英伟达，因为他们使用的是英伟达芯片。理论上另一部分可能流向甲骨文，因为甲骨文正在出租数据中心除芯片外的其他设备。这里确实存在某种循环性。

mean, the other news story that's really relevant here to your point, Akash, is the OpenAI NVIDIA deal that we just saw announced. There was a letter of intent. OpenAI is going to be taking capital investment from NVIDIA and then using a large amount of that capital to invest in computing infrastructure, which a large chunk of that is probably going to go back to NVIDIA because they're using NVIDIA's chips. Another portion of that could, in theory, go to Oracle because Oracle is renting out the equipment besides the chips that will be used in the data centers. And so there is some circularity here.

我认为分析师们最终对OpenAI-英伟达这笔交易的普遍反应是迅速指出：这只会巩固英伟达的霸主地位。很多人强调相信是OpenAI主动联系英伟达促成交易。但关键在于，无论此事真假（很可能属实），都未能消除人们对这种收入循环的忧虑。即便英伟达市场地位强势，若长期只有他们具备雄厚财力或意愿持续资助这类资本密集型交易，那么市场在维持这种建设扩张所需的流动性方面将陷入困境。

And I think that analysts, at the end of the day, a lot of them about that OpenAI NVIDIA deal were very quick to point out that, you know, this is something that just solidifies Nvidia's dominance. And a lot of them were pointing out that they believe that OpenAI actually approached Nvidia about the deal. And my point is this, whether or not that is true, which it very well may be, that still doesn't mitigate the concerns or the idea that it's a circular flow of revenue. I mean, at the end of the day, Nvidia might be in a strong position and they might be dominant in the market. But if they're the only company that long term has the balance sheet or, you know, has the will to keep funding these very capital intensive deals, then, you know, the market would be in a pretty tough place in terms of the liquidity it needs to continue fueling this build out.

确实如此。太棒了。安妮塔，非常感谢你参与讨论这个话题。能获得这么多不同视角真是太好了，要知道我们也邀请过不少分析师和投资者来分享见解。

Right, right. Great. Well, Anita, thank you so much for coming on and talking about it. It's something that it's great to get all these different perspectives on. And, you know, we've had some analysts and investors on as well.

下次再有这类重磅新闻发布时，我们会再次请你来帮我们解读。这位是《The Information》的金融分析专栏作家安妮塔·拉马斯瓦米。好了，现在健康领域已成为AI最激动人心的应用场景之一，Sword Health正运用该技术提供从心理健康到背痛治疗等服务——我敢肯定在座各位对后者都深有体会。该公司今年六月的最新估值达40亿美元，投资方包括General Catalyst、Coastal Ventures和康卡斯特风投。现在有请公司创始人维·本托来谈谈他的商业理念。

Next time we get one of these juicy press releases, we'll have you back on again to help us break it all down. That is Anita Ramaswamy, our Financial Analysis columnist here at The Information. Okay, well, health has become one of the most exciting applications of AI, and Sword Health is using the technology to help deliver care for everything from mental health to health for that aching back that I'm sure many of you know all too well. The company was last valued at $4,000,000,000 in June in this year, and it is backed by General Catalyst, Coastal Ventures, Comcast Ventures. I want to bring on Vee Bento, the founder of the company, to talk about how he thinks about his business.

维，欢迎来到节目。很高兴你能来。

Vee, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

谢谢邀请，阿卡什。很荣幸参与。

Thanks for having me, Akash. It's a pleasure to be here.

那么请简单介绍一下贵公司具体从事的业务，之后我们再探讨一些行业趋势。

So tell us a little bit about what your company actually does, and then we'll get into some of the trends.

本质上我们在构建一个内部称为'AI治疗师'的系统，通过与人类临床医生结合，让患者能够在家中独立获得更高效、完全便利舒适的医疗服务，当然这同时也保障了高质量的护理。通过实现高质量护理，我们为支付方（包括自保雇主等负责医疗费用支付的机构）大幅降低了成本，他们始终追求以最低成本获取最优医疗服务。

So basically what we are doing is we are, we call it internally, we are building this AI healer that combined with human clinicians allows patients to access much more efficient care at home independently in total convenience, comfort, and of course, that drives high quality care. By enabling high quality care, that also massively reduce costs for our clients, are payers, self insured employers, and all the organizations that have the job of paying for care delivered, they want to get the highest quality of care at lowest cost possible.

明白了。所以你们目前的技术销售对象主要是企业和保险公司对吗？

Right. And so you selling technically to the employers and the insurance companies right now?

是的。你可以把SWORD理解为提供医疗护理服务的AI供应商。

Yes. You can think about SWORD as an AI provider that care.

懂了懂了。就像我说的，这涵盖了从肌肉疼痛到心理健康咨询的所有服务。能否详细说明下你们实际覆盖的服务范围？

Got it. Got it. And this is everything, like I say, this is everything from muscle aches to mental health appointments. I mean, just explain to us the range of things that So you actually look

我们拥有所谓的AI护理平台。2020年我们首先推出了专注解决身体疼痛的核心垂直领域，比如腰痛、肩颈痛等问题。

we have what we call the AI care platform. Right? And we started by launching our fat vertical in 2020, which was focused on physical pain. Right? Low back pain, shoulder pain, neck pain.

没错。身体疼痛是当前医疗体系中

Right. Physical pain is the problem with the highest

那么颈部、眼睛。好的。

So the neck, eyes. Okay.

好的。明白了。系统。2022年，我们推出了女性生理健康解决方案。例如产后尿失禁，这是女性群体中的一大问题。

Alright. Okay. System. In 2022, launched our women's physical health solution. Example, urinary incontinence after childbirth, massive problem in the female population.

我们有解决方案来应对这个问题。之后我们又推出了心理健康与长寿方案。现在，我们想要做的是覆盖所有垂直护理领域，目前这些领域的护理服务都是以100%高强度方式提供的。我们希望通过AI作为护理提供者来改变这些领域的护理方式。

We have a solution to address that. And afterwards we launched mental health longevity. And now what we want to do is all verticals of care where right now care is delivered in a 100% level intensive way. We want to how care is delivered there using AI as the provider of care.

那么患者在数字健康平台上真的能见到医生吗？还是说所有护理都是由AI伴侣自动完成的？

And do do they actually see a a doctor on the digital health platform, or is it all just automated care with the AI companion?

基本上是完全由AI护理专家独立完成的。我们称之为凤凰系统。所以用户是与凤凰交互，这是我们的——

So it's basically completely independent with the AI care specialist. We call it Phoenix. So you interface with Phoenix, which is our-

那么完全没有任何医生参与吗？

So there's no doctors involved at all then?

我们有临床医生监督机制，但基本上是远程异步监督患者与凤凰系统的所有互动，作为AI系统的制衡机制。同时，这点非常重要，他们也会提供人文关怀。所以关键在于如何让AI与人类临床医生协同工作，让医生专注于工作中那些复杂、需要高度智慧的部分。对吧。

So you have the clinician envelope, but it's basically remotely and asynchronously supervising everything that the patients are doing with Phoenix, acting as checks and balances of the AI system. And also, and this is very important, being there to provide human touch. And so it's really about how you can have AI working alongside human clinicians so that clinicians are doing the complex, intellectually elevated parts of the job. Right.

没错。而且如果需要的话，你大概能接触到他们吧？正是如此。说说看

Right. And presumably you can get access to them if you need to Exactly. Talk

明白了。是的。顺便一提，医疗保健并非一刀切。我们有患者需要更多手把手的关怀和轻柔的接触，经常与人类临床医生互动。也有患者希望几乎完全独立地在家中使用Phoenix完成所有事项。

Got it. Yes. And by the way, health care is not a one size fits all. We have patients that require that more hand holding and light glove treatment and connect with human clinicians often. And then we have patients that want to do everything almost independently with Phoenix at home.

所以现在，

So it Now,

我想请教你的一件事是，我确实想了解AI与医疗保健的长期趋势。但昨天我们刚邀请了General Catalyst的CEO Hemanteneja上节目，我知道他们是你们的重要支持者。我们聊到他们进行的医院收购案，我问他General Catalyst的整体战略是什么。他说，这一切都是为了服务我们的创始人，帮助他们获得所需支持。而你们是一家专注医疗的公司。

one of the things I wanted to ask you about, I do want to ask sort of about long term trends for AI and healthcare. But we had Hemanteneja, the CEO of General Catalyst on the show just yesterday, and I know they're a big backer of yours. And we were talking about the hospital acquisition that they did, and I asked him about what the broader strategy was for General Catalyst. And he said, know, it's all in service of our founders and helping them get the support that they need. And you are a healthcare focused company.

你们是否利用了General Catalyst那笔医院收购的资源？他们为你们提供了哪些支持？请具体谈谈这方面。

Have you been able to leverage that hospital acquisition that they made at General Catalyst? What kind of support has that offered you? Just talk to us about that.

是的。GC的生态系统对我们至关重要。与医院的合作目前刚起步，对我们来说还处于早期阶段。但GC拥有的广阔生态系统，不仅在基础设施方面，还包括人脉网络，都为我们带来了丰硕成果。

Yeah. So the ecosystem at GC has been very important to us. The partnership with the hospitals, it's something that is starting now. So that partnership is still in the early stages for us. But the broad ecosystem that GC has, not just in terms of infrastructure, but also in terms of network, it's been very fruitful for us.

那么你是否...比如，会设想自己与这家医院连锁集团交流，向他们请教最佳实践，或是甚至利用他们的人才网络？你具体认为他们能在战术层面如何帮助你们？

And so do you oh, like, do you imagine yourself talking to this this hospital chain, you know, asking them questions about best practices or, you know, maybe even leveraging their talent network? Like, how do you see them sort of helping you tactically?

从战术层面而言，更多是作为我们推出新AI医疗垂直领域的指定合作伙伴，更多是在这个意义上。

Tactically more as a designed partner for us to launch new AI care verticals, more in that sense.

明白了。所以可能像是试点合作伙伴，就像你们会用他们的平台测试新工具那样

Got it. So like maybe like a pilot partner, like you would pilot new tools with their

比如你想拓展到胃肠领域或心脏领域时，拥有设计合作伙伴很有帮助。同时对于临床研究而言，在更传统的领域拥有这类合作伙伴也很重要。

You want to expand into the GI space or in the cardiac space, for example. It's good to have design partners. And also for clinical studies is also something that is it's important to have partners like that in the more traditional. Now

我们看到Hinge Health今年早些时候上市了。你们刚以40亿美元估值完成融资。你们考虑明年上市吗？

we saw Hinge Health going public earlier this year. You guys just raised money at $4,000,000,000 valuation. Are you looking to go public in the next year?

明年不会。后年呢？大概也不会，但谁知道呢？这个行业瞬息万变，发展极其迅速。对我们来说，IPO本身并不是我们追求的目标里程碑。

Not in the next year, no. How about the year after that? Probably not, but who knows? Everything chips on a dime on this space and it moves very, very fast. Look, for us, the IPO itself, it's not a milestone that we are aiming towards.

我们视其为工具，时机成熟自然水到渠成。说实话，我们看待IPO的角度不在于何时上市，而更多在于是否应该上市。

We see that as a tool, when it happens, it happens. If it serves a purpose, by the way, which honestly, it's not The way we look at the IPO, it's not as much when, it's much more as if we should IPO or not.

确实。我们也听闻私募市场资金充裕。最后请教下：之前节目邀请过Hinge Health的Dan Perez，他谈到AI如何赋能医疗，以及AI能接管医疗中许多非接触环节。您认为AI能自动化医疗中的哪些部分，哪些部分无法被替代？

Right, right. And we've heard about all the capital that's available in the private markets as well. Last question for you. You know, I mentioned, we had Hinge Health on the show and Dan Perez was talking about how he views AI augmenting healthcare, but also how AI can take over a lot of the non touch elements of healthcare. What do you think it automates and what do you think it doesn't in healthcare?

因此我认为，这确实能让我们在多个不同领域增强临床医生的能力。但当然，显而易见的是，所有需要触诊和医生实际介入的环节——那些显然涉及直接接触的操作，AI还需要很长时间才能替代医生。我们需要在实体AI层面看到巨大的进化，才能实现医疗保健的这一部分。所以在这个领域，我并不看好AI会取代医护人员。

So I think it really allows us to augment clinicians in many different areas. But I think, of course, the obvious part is everything that requires touch and the physical intervention of the clinician. Everything that of course obviously involves touch, it's something that AI will have a long time to be able to replace the clinician on. So we would need to see a massive evolution on the physical AI layer to be able to do that part of healthcare. And so that's an area where I'm not bullish AI replacing healthcare workers.

但凡是涉及运用思维和知识的领域，AI都是增强临床医生能力的绝佳工具。

But everything that involves using your minds and your knowledge, AI is a very good tool to augment clinicians.

没错，完全同意。太棒了。维，非常感谢你参加我们的节目，能邀请到你真是太好了。

Right. Right. Great. Well, Vee, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's great to have you.

这位是Sword Health的首席执行官维·本托。我们很快会再次邀请你来到TITP节目。好的，如果你的公司曾试图提升效率，很可能你曾尝试过或了解过Asana。该公司运营着一套协作工具组合。

That is Vee Bento, the CEO of Sword Health. We'll have you back very soon here on TITP. Okay. If your company has tried to become more productive, chances are you may at some point have tried Asana or looked into it. The company runs a suite of collaboration tools.

今天，他们发布了声称能帮你完成更多任务的新AI智能体。我想请首席运营官安妮·雷蒙迪来谈谈这些工具将为公司带来什么。安妮，欢迎来到TI TV，很高兴你能来。

Today, it is unveiling new AI agents that it says will help you get even more stuff done. I want to bring on chief operating officer Anne Raimondi to talk about what these tools will do for the company. Anne, welcome to TI TV. It's great to have you.

很荣幸来到这里，非常感谢。

It's great to be here. Thanks so much.

那么安妮，我想请教你关于Asana当前的重要时刻，但请先快速告诉我们，你们今天发布的这些智能体具体能实现哪些功能？

So, Anne, I want to ask you about, you know, this moment for Asana, but very quickly, tell us about what your agents actually do that you're unveiling today.

是的。今天我们刚刚在伦敦工作创新峰会上推出了Asana的AI队友功能。它们能真正加入你的团队，代表员工执行任务，成为团队的一部分。不同于各自为政、每人拥有独立AI助手或聊天机器人的模式，我们是将队友功能深度整合到Asana中。今天我们发布了12个开箱即用的AI队友，现场演示了创意专家、战略专家以及IT专家的功能。

Yeah. So we just launched today at our London Work Innovation Summit, AI teammates from Asana. And what they do is actually they are they can join your team and actually take action on behalf of your employees as part of an entire team. So instead of working in silos and everybody having their own AI agent or chatbots and trying to get those all to coordinate, what we've done is really build teammates into Asana to join your team. And so we actually launched 12 out of the box teammates, showed a demo today, a creative specialist and strategist as well as an IT but IT specialist.

我们展示了这些AI队友如何融入现有工作流。你可以训练它们，它们会向你展示操作步骤的上下文依据。人们还能给予反馈让它们学习——它们会明确表示'正在存入记忆'。如果已有现成指南，它们会将其纳入考量。这让我们感到无比兴奋。

And so we showed how these AI teammates can actually be added to existing workflows. You can train them. They will show you the context and how they're taking the steps, And then people can give them feedback so they can learn and then actually show you they'll say, adding it to my memory. If you've got guidelines in place already, they'll take that all into context. So we're super excited about it.

今天观众看到演示后，已经迫不及待要创建专属队友或直接使用预制模板了。

People saw it today and were already ready to go build their own teammates or use the ones that were out of the box.

我想和你探讨的不只是这个产品，而是更广泛的智能体生态。你们称之为队友，怎么称呼都行。我的观察是：我们节目邀请过多位企业软件公司高管，说实话，有人认为产品创新已名存实亡，也有人觉得创新乏力，折中说法就是缺乏原创性——现在所有人都在做智能体。

So I want to talk to you not just about this product, but sort of the broader landscape here for agents. You you guys call them teammates, whatever you want to call them. Know, Here's my thing about it. We've had a number of executives from enterprise software companies on the show, and, you know, it just kind of feels, you know, some could say product innovation is, you know, you could say it's dead in the most extreme sense. Some could say product innovation is lackluster, right?

我想问你的是，难道所有企业软件公司不都在做同样的事吗？你们有队友功能，Salesforce在搞AgentForce，ServiceNow有他们的智能体，Atlassian也在全面布局——这看起来就像同质化竞争。

You could just, you know, middle ground and say, It's unoriginal. Okay, everyone's doing agents. And so I just want to ask you, I mean, you know, does it not feel like every enterprise software company has come up with the same thing? Because, I mean, you guys have teammates. Salesforce is building agent force, right?

感觉你们全都在做一模一样的事情。

ServiceNow has their agents. Atlassian is doing everything. It feels like you're all doing the same thing.

确实，当前AI创新浪潮可能让人应接不暇。你问题包含多个层面，我想逐一回应：首先我坚信这是企业技术大创新的时代，但也理解现在可能造成认知超载——毕竟每家都在推出AI功能。

Yeah. It can feel very overwhelming now in general, all the AI innovation. There were so many parts to your question, so I wanna make sure I'm answering those. One is I do think it's a time of tremendous innovation in enterprise technology. I definitely recognize there can be a bit of overload right now because everyone is introducing AI.

而且确实存在重叠。

And overlap, really.

特别是对于Asana而言，我们对AI队友如此看好的原因在于我们构建时考虑的三个要点。首先，AI要对团队协作及整个组织产生实际影响，它需要上下文。因此它实际上受益于了解你的员工是谁，他们属于哪个团队。

And specifically for Asana, the reasons we're so bullish on AI teammates is there's there's sort of three things that we've built in mind. One is for AI to have a real impact on teamwork and across the organization, it needs context. So it actually benefits from understanding who your employees are, what team they're on.

而且他们确实在获取数据。

And they're really getting the data.

没错，完全正确。其次是透明度。我们刚才讨论的是你希望AI展示它在做什么，展示工作内容以便你能编辑那些步骤。

Exactly. Exactly. And then the second yeah. It's like transparency. We're just talking about you want AI to show you what it's doing, show you the work so that you can edit those steps.

你可以提供反馈，它能记住如何改进。第三点非常重要，就是你需要控制或治理权。对吧？所以我们构建的方式让你能真正具体指定你的队友在处理哪些数据、哪些团队、哪些信息，无论是全公司公开可用的信息还是特定团队或部门的私有信息。

You can give it feedback. It can remember how to improve. And then the third, very important, is you want control or governance. Right? So the way that we've built it, you can you can really be specific on what data, what teams, what information your teammate is working with, whether it's publicly available information across the whole company or private to a specific team or department.

因此这三者结合起来，我们觉得确实能在效率和掌控力上带来改变。

And so all three together, we feel like really makes a difference on effectiveness and control.

关于上下文这部分，你知道，这依赖于队友或代理能够访问数据，推测不仅限于Asana内部的数据，还包括你们使用的所有合作伙伴软件中的数据。我们曾撰文提到一些软件公司正在设置的壁垒，声称不希望以这种方式访问数据。很多时候是因为他们在开发竞争性产品，这对你们来说是个多大的问题？

On the context piece, you know, this relies on the teammate or the agent being able to access data, presumably not just data that's held within Asana, but also in all the partner softwares that you use. We've written at the information about some of the walls that software companies are putting up saying, Hey, we don't really want you to access the data in this way. A lot of the times, because they're developing competitive products, how much of an issue is that for you?

是的，到目前为止还没有。我们认为对企业至关重要的基础功能已经内置在Asana中了。比如任务、项目、组合、团队、权限和角色。同时我们与工作发生地有非常强大的集成，例如Google文档。

Yeah, so far it hasn't been. We feel like the fundamental context that's really important to an enterprise is built into Asana already. Okay. Tasks, projects, portfolios, teams, permissions, roles. And then we do have very robust integrations with where work is happening, for example, Google Docs.

因此团队成员可以在Google文档中协作，将评论转化为行动项。这些现有集成非常强大，因为它们能让团队成员直接在原有工作环境中操作。

So teammates can work within Google Docs, take comments, turn them into actions. So those existing integrations we feel like are really powerful because they have the teammates working where your team is already working.

我想把这次产品发布放在公司当前处境中来看。公司目前股价低于IPO发行价，收入增长停滞在10%左右，下季度预期还会更低。您如何看待这次产品发布对公司财务表现的影响？

I want to sort of put this product launch in the context of where the company is at right now. The company, I mean, know, right now it's trading below its IPO price. Revenue growth has stalled to about 10%. You're projecting lower than that in the coming quarter as well. How do you view this product launch in terms of the company's financial performance?

这会是让公司重回15%-20%收入增长的关键吗？为什么人们现在应该选择Asana？

I mean, is this going to be the thing that gets us back to 15%, 20% revenue growth? Why should people be buying into Asana right now?

对我们而言，坚信AI将彻底改变协作工作管理领域，它能加速人类与AI的协同工作，这正是未来的工作方式。从业务角度看，AI产品的发布将帮助我们实现从席位授权模式向AI用量计费模式的扩展，这是我们增长战略的重要组成部分。

Yeah. For us, we really believe that AI is transformative for the space that we're in, collaborative work management, that it can really accelerate how humans and AI work together. And that's really the work of the future. So in terms of growth, what our AI launches do for us from a business perspective is help us expand beyond seat based licensing revenue to consumption based revenue with AI. That's really how we're seeing that as part of our growth strategy.

这是你们首次尝试用量计费模式吗？

This is the first time you guys have been doing consumption based pricing?

我们此前在AI Studio附加组件中已推出该模式，但Teammates功能将其推向更深入的阶段。

We had launched it with our AI Studio add on, which we had introduced, but Teammates takes that even further.

明白了。最后一个问题。我想了解一下，你们现在有很多客户正在使用你们的AI工具吗？

Got it. Got it. Last question for you. I just want get a sense of it. I mean, many of your customers are using your AI tools right now?

是的。我们有好几种不同类型的AI工具。有些AI功能已经包含在所有付费订阅中，还有一些附加产品，比如AI Studio，以及最新推出的AI队友功能。相当比例的付费客户已经在他们的应用中启用了AI功能，并且使用效果非常好。

Yeah. We have several different types of AI tools. We've got AI that's just part of every paid subscription. And then we have these add ons, AI Studio, and now the launch of AI teammates. A good percentage of our paid customers who have AI enabled in their applications already and are seeing really good use of that.

所以基本上用户可以通过这三种不同方式在Asana中使用AI功能。我们确实有非常详实的数据支持

And so those are just kind of the three different ways that people can be participating and using AI in Asana. But really good robust Quantify

这个'相当比例'具体是多少？

what is a good percentage?

目前我们不会披露付费用户中使用这些不同产品的具体比例。但我们已经广泛开放了这些功能，包括在每个付费计划中都提供免费版的AI Studio。

Yeah. We don't currently disclose the percentage of the paid user base that is using each of those different products. But we've made it widely available, including a free version of AI Studio in every paid plan.

好的，明白了。

Right. Okay.

好的。非常感谢你参加我们的节目，现在对所有人来说都是推出AI代理的激动时刻，很高兴看到Asana也参与其中。这位是Asana的首席运营官Ann Raimondi。好的，今天的节目就到这里。

All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, and it is an exciting time for everyone to launch AI Agents, and it's great to see that Asana is getting in the mix. That is Ann Raimondi, the COO at Asana. Okay. Well, that does it for today's show.

提醒一下，我们的直播时间是太平洋时间周一至周五上午10点，东部时间下午1点。我要感谢亚马逊网络服务，他们是本次节目的主要赞助商。同时感谢各位的收看，我们非常珍视大家的观看。我已经开始期待明天的下一场节目了。

A reminder that we are live on this stream Monday through Friday at 10AM Pacific, 1PM Eastern. I want to thank Amazon Web Services, who is our presenting sponsor for this production. And I want to thank you for tuning in. We really do appreciate your viewership. I'm already excited for our next show tomorrow.

那么在那之前，我们暂时说再见啦。

And so until then, bye bye for now.