华尔街的人工智能应用，双子星IPO信号，派拉蒙押注华纳兄弟探索 | 2025年9月12日

欢迎大家收看Information's TITV节目。我是Akash Vasricha。今天是9月12日星期五，本周的新闻收官可谓精彩纷呈。今天我们有大量内容要探讨。我们将全面解析微软与OpenAI即将达成的和平协议，这是您需要了解的所有细节。

Welcome, everyone, to the Information's TITV. My name is Akash Vasricha. It is Friday, September 12, and what an end to the week for news we have, folks. We have a lot to get to today. We're breaking down everything you need to know about the Microsoft OpenAI peace deal that appears to be coming together.

我们还将深入探讨派拉蒙对华纳兄弟探索频道的收购要约，以及这对两家公司可能意味着什么。随后我们将邀请Sapphire Ventures的Jay Doss，帮助我们理解这疯狂的一周里IPO（尤其是加密货币IPO）对更广泛市场的意义。最后我们将进行两场对话：关于一家初创公司如何向华尔街推销AI，以及为何科技公司不再收购社交媒体平台。这将是一期内容充实且精彩的节目，让我们直接进入第一个板块。

We're also going to get into the Paramount bid for Warner Brothers Discovery and what that could mean for both of those companies. We're then going to bring on Jay Doss at Sapphire Ventures to help us understand what this crazy week in IPOs and crypto IPOs in particular means for the market more broadly. We're going to end with two conversations about how one startup is selling AI to Wall Street and why tech companies aren't buying social media platforms anymore. It is going to be a busy show, but a great one. Let's get right on into our first segment.

昨晚，微软和OpenAI宣布已达成初步协议，OpenAI将重组其极其复杂的治理结构。这是我们The Information持续追踪报道多年的长篇故事，但剧情似乎从未变得简单。现在有请我们的微软记者Aaron Holmes来帮我们理清头绪。Aaron，欢迎回到节目，很高兴你能来。

Last night, Microsoft and OpenAI said that they have reached a tentative deal that will see OpenAI restructure its very complicated governance. This is part of a long running saga that we have been covering for many months and years here at The Information, and yet it somehow never gets less complicated. I want to bring on our Microsoft reporter, Aaron Holmes, to help us make sense of all of this. Aaron, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you.

你好，Akash。很荣幸参与节目。

Hi, Akash. Happy to be here.

好的。想必你已经精疲力尽了——我是说，这些内容确实很难理解，而且新增的细节本身就非常复杂。请先帮我们解读最新消息，然后再回顾我们是如何走到今天这一步的。

Okay. So you must be exhausted. I mean, this is very hard to understand, and the incremental details themselves are very complicated. So help us understand what the news was, and then we'll sort of get into the backstory about how we got to this point.

是的。目前仍存在许多未解之谜。但我们已知的是，微软和OpenAI宣布就下一阶段合作达成了不具约束力的初步协议。从字里行间可以看出，OpenAI正试图重组为由非营利组织控股的营利实体，这样既能筹集更多资金，也能上市。但实现这个目标需要微软的许可。

Yeah. So for now, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. But what we do know is that Microsoft and OpenAI said they've reached a tentative nonbinding agreement about the next phase of their partnership and reading between the lines. OpenAI is trying to restructure as a for profit entity still owned and controlled by its nonprofit, which would allow it to raise more money and go public. But to do that, it needs Microsoft's permission.

因此过去一年里，两家公司实质上一直就以下问题展开谈判：微软在营利实体的股权比例意味着什么？以及一系列其他问题，比如微软如何持续获取OpenAI的技术——尤其是最先进的AGI技术（当OpenAI最终实现与人类智能比肩的人工通用智能时）。

And as a result, the two companies have been basically locked in negotiations over the past year over what that's going to mean in terms of Microsoft stake in the for profit entity, as well as a whole host of other questions like how Microsoft will keep getting access to open AI's technology, especially the most advanced technology, which would be, you know, AGI, which is on par with, you know, a human intelligence when open AI eventually reaches that.

对，好的。那么我们接下来要深入探讨一些细节。但真正让我印象深刻的是他们用了‘暂定的、无约束力’这样的表述。这听起来简直如履薄冰。

Right. Okay. So we're going to get into some of those details. But the thing that really stood out to me is they said tentative, nonbinding. I mean, that sounds about as walking on eggshells as anything.

你认为他们为何要在条款尚未完全敲定的情况下发布这份公告？

Why do you think they actually decided to put out this announcement if things are still getting hashed out?

我认为很明显，两家公司想释放接近达成协议的信号。最终达成某种协议符合双方利益。OpenAI需要持续融资来维持其极度烧钱的业务运转，而微软也需要OpenAI能继续融资，这样它才能持续在微软云服务器上投入巨资，同时继续开发尖端AI技术——过去几年微软大部分AI功能都依赖于此。虽然他们可能在协议某些条款上存在分歧，而且肯定还有些最终细节在协商，但这本质上是在向世界宣告他们即将达成协议。

I mean, I think it's clear that the two companies want to signal that they're getting closer to a deal. It is in both of their interests to ultimately reach some sort of agreement. You know, OpenAI needs to keep raising money in order to keep powering its extremely cash hungry business, and Microsoft needs OpenAI to be able to keep raising money so that it can keep spending so much on Microsoft's cloud servers as well as, you know, keep developing cutting edge AI that Microsoft has been using to power the bulk of its AI features over the last few years. So they they may not might not see eye to eye on every tenant of their agreement, and I'm sure, you know, that there's still some last negotiations that they're working out. But this is them essentially saying to the world that they are getting close to a deal.

明白了。那么昨晚爆出的这个消息，是否存在任何赢家？

Okay. And with this news that came out last night, I mean, is there a winner at all in this?

目前还难下定论。我们知道微软最看重的条件之一，是即使OpenAI实现通用人工智能（AGI）后仍能持续获得其技术使用权。根据现有合同，届时微软将失去访问权限。具体如何重新约定尚不明确，有报道称新合同保留了AGI条款但做了修改，不过具体含义还有待观察。

I mean, it still remains to be seen. You know, we we know that one of the top things that Microsoft has wanted is continued access to open AI technology, even when the startup achieves AGI. Currently, their previous contract stipulates that Microsoft would lose access to open AI technology at that point. So the exact kind of way that that has been hammered out has yet to be seen. There have been reports that the AGI clause is still in their new contract, but has been modified somewhat, but we don't know exactly what that means yet.

与此同时，微软当然希望获得营利实体的大量股权。目前它仅持有未来利润分红权，而非传统意义上的股权。

And at the same time, of course, you know, Microsoft wants a sizable stake in the for profit entity. Currently, it only has profit units that would entitle it to future OpenAI profits rather than a traditional stake.

有件事希望你解释下：他们提到对OpenAI技术的独家使用权。据我所知，OpenAI的模型应用非常广泛，那么这个‘独家’具体指什么？他们究竟在协商哪些内容？

And one thing I was hoping you could explain to us is they talk about the exclusive access to OpenAI's technology. Mean, as far as I know, OpenAI's models are used very widely. So what exactly is exclusive about this and what are they negotiating there?

这是个非常好的问题。目前，微软拥有在云端转售OpenAI模型的独家权利。这意味着，如果企业想在产品中使用OpenAI的模型，基本上必须通过微软Azure获取。这对微软已成为一项巨大业务。我们曾报道，去年这部分收入已突破十亿美元，且此后增长迅猛。

It's a really good question. So right now, Microsoft has the exclusive rights to resell OpenAI's models in the cloud. Meaning if you're a company that wants to use OpenAI's models in your products, you basically have to go to Microsoft Azure in order to get those models. And that has become a huge business for Microsoft. We've reported that that, you know, surpassed a billion dollars in revenue last year and has grown a lot since then.

这是独占性的重要体现。微软还有权无偿复用OpenAI模型，不像其他公司需按token付费——这是其独有的特权。至于这些权益是否会在当前协议到期后延续（协议定于2030年2月终止），仍有待观察。

So that that's one big piece of the exclusivity. And Microsoft also gets the rights to reuse OpenAI's models without paying the startup, you know, per token like other companies do, which which it has the exclusive rights to do. So it remains to be seen whether those things are going to continue beyond the current deal term, which is set to expire in 02/1930.

明白了。最后问你个宏观问题：我们为何要关注这笔交易？作为消费者，我感觉ChatGPT不会有太大变化。

Right. And last question for you. Big picture here. I mean, why should we care about this deal at all? I mean, from my view, it doesn't feel like as a consumer, ChatGPT is going to change that much.

请从更宏观角度谈谈——这对AI生态系统的其他部分是否产生影响？

But talk to me about the bigger picture here. I mean, is this weighing on other parts of the AI ecosystem?

当然有深远影响。虽然普通消费者可能看不出OpenAI融资上市前后的差别，但其持续大规模投入的能力，可以说支撑着经济的重要一角。比如刚与甲骨文达成3000亿美元协议，它必须持续投入资金

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the individual consumer might not see a big difference when OpenAI is able to raise money and go public. But OpenAI's ability to keep spending heavily is arguably kind of holding up a big corner of the economy. I mean, it just signed a $300,000,000,000 deal with Oracle. It is committed to spend money

即便资金尚未到位

that it doesn't have

没错，它需要不断融资。扩建数据中心、持续满足需求，这对科技界乃至当前美国整体经济都至关重要。

right that it needs to keep raising. And, you know, building out data centers and continuing to sort of fuel that demand is hugely important both to the tech world and, you know, the broader US economy at this point.

太好了。好吧。如果这些赌注对你来说还不够高，那我真不知道什么才算高了。亚伦·霍姆斯，感谢你的到来。亚伦是The Information负责报道微软的记者。

Great. Okay. Well, if those stakes aren't high enough for you, well then I don't know what it is. Aaron Holmes, thank you for coming on. Aaron covers Microsoft here at The Information.

我们将继续节目，进入第二个环节。令人震惊的是，接下来的这条新闻竟然是昨天发生的第二大新闻。据《华尔街日报》报道，派拉蒙环球正筹备对华纳兄弟探索发起现金收购。消息一出，华纳兄弟探索股价应声飙升。这笔交易将耗资约710亿美元，其中包括华纳兄弟探索资产负债表上的所有债务。

We're going to keep the show going with our second segment here. It is stunning that this next story was the second biggest news that happened yesterday. Paramount Global is putting together a cash bid for Warner Brothers Discovery according to the Wall Street Journal. Warner Brothers Discovery shares went shooting up on the news. It would cost Paramount something like $71,000,000,000, which would include all the debt that Warner Brothers Discovery has on its balance sheet.

这是传媒行业的一笔惊天交易，考虑到埃里森家族在背后推动，此事还涉及科技因素。因此我想请我们的联合执行主编马丁·皮尔斯来详细解读。马丁，周五愉快。我知道你对此事兴奋不已，因为它涵盖科技、传媒和亿万富豪——天啊，简直包罗万象。

This is a monumental deal in media, and given that the Ellison family is behind it, there is also a tech angle, and so I want to bring on our co executive editor, Martin Pears, to talk all about this. Martin, happy Friday to you. Know that you are very excited to talk about this one because it is tech, it is media, it is billionaires. I mean, gosh, It's everything. It's everything.

好吧。这个故事确实无所不包。我想请教的是，当人们说AI将吞噬传媒业时——我是说，你知道的，传媒业和AI——他们指的不是这种情况，但某种程度上这却是整个事件的核心。

Okay. This story has everything. So the thing that I want to ask you is, when people have said AI is going to eat media, I mean, you know, media, so AI, This is not what they meant, and yet this is central to the whole story in a way.

没错。我不认为这是AI吞噬传媒的案例。我认为这是AI领域创造的财富流向传媒业，拯救了那些持有华纳兄弟股票多年的投资者——这支股票多年来表现糟糕，现在他们终于被收购了。某种意义上这是富人收购穷人，正是这点让故事如此精彩。

Yeah. I don't think it's a case of AI eating media. I think it's a case of money being made on the AI front flowing through to media and rescuing the investors in Warner Brothers who have been holding onto this stock, which has been in the toilet for years, and they're getting bought out. So the rich is buying out the poor in a sense. That's what makes this a great story.

它某种程度上将两个趋势结合起来：方兴未艾的AI与日渐衰落的娱乐产业。

It kind of unites the two stories of AI, which is on the rise, and entertainment, which is on the decline. Right.

所以这是宏观层面的意义。具体到战术层面，你指的是什么？这些资金如何从AI领域流入传媒业？能否为我们解释下甲骨文在这其中的关联？

So that's big picture what it is. It just granularly mean, to us tactically what you mean here. How is that money going from AI into media? Explain to us sort of the Oracle connection to all this.

当然。派拉蒙现在由埃里森家族控制，也就是掌控甲骨文的同一家族。本周有消息称甲骨文签署了这些大型新的人工智能云协议，推动其股价飙升，让拉里·埃里森财富大增。因此他现在有更多财力投资派拉蒙，并为派拉蒙收购华纳提供资金。

Sure. Paramount is now controlled by the Ellison family, the same family that controls Oracle. The news this week that Oracle had signed these big new AI cloud deals, sent their stock soaring and enriched Larry Ellison. So he now got even more financial resources to invest into Paramount and to finance Paramount's purchase of Warner.

好的。我们得知这个消息。这笔交易可能会达成。我们还不确定具体进展到哪一步。但我想问你的是，这是一笔好交易吗？

Okay. So we have this news. This deal could go through. We're not really sure where it is in the process yet. But my question for you is, is this a good deal?

这是个好主意吗？

Is this a good idea?

我的意思是，如果成功的话，对埃里森来说可能是一笔很划算的交易。我认为这有风险。是非常冒险的交易。华纳和派拉蒙，他一个月前才买下派拉蒙。这两家公司都非常依赖有线电视，而这是个衰退的行业。

I mean, it could be a great deal for Ellison, depending on if it works out. I think it's a risk. It's a very risky deal. Warner and Paramount, he only bought Paramount a month ago. And both of these companies are very reliant on cable, which is a declining business.

此外华纳负债累累。如果他买下华纳并将其与派拉蒙合并，合并后的公司将高度暴露于衰退的业务中。我是说，你得记住，任何人都可以买华纳，但没人愿意为那些衰退的有线频道买单。这里面有很大风险。

Also Warner has a huge amount of debt. So if he buys Warner and puts it together with Paramount, the combined company is very exposed to a declining business. I mean, you have to remember, anybody could have bought Warner, but no one wants to pay up for those declining cable channels. There's a big risk here.

但你曾写过关于华纳兄弟探索公司可能分拆业务的潜力。我们今天早上讨论的一个问题是，为什么不等待分拆发生，然后购买业务中不衰退的那部分？

But one of the things that you've written about is the potential for Warner Brothers Discovery to split its business up. And one of the questions that we were talking about this morning is why not wait for that split to happen and then buy the part of the business that isn't declining?

是的，你会认为埃里森会等待，但问题是分拆要到明年才会进行。而且我认为还有税务原因，分拆后他本可以只购买将被剥离的流媒体业务和制片厂，但出于税务原因他必须等待两年。如果他等待，可能要等到2028年左右。显然他想更快行动。

Yeah, you would think that Allison would have waited, but the problem was that split isn't due to happen until next year. And then I think there's a tax reason that after that split, when he could have just bought the streaming operation and the studio, which will be carved off, but I think he has to wait two years for tax reasons. If he waited, he'd be probably waiting till 2028 or so. And I think he obviously wants to move faster.

好的。既然我们已经讨论了这里的风险和所谓的熊市情况，那么另一面是什么呢？可以说是牛市情况。

Okay. Now we've talked about the risk here and the bear case, I guess you could say. What is the flip side of that? Could be the Yeah. Bull case for

嗯，积极的一面在于他设法解决了问题。首先，将两者合并会让他迅速在好莱坞占据强势地位。华纳和派拉蒙联手，这两家电影公司将处于非常有利的位置。流媒体业务也会非常强劲。他们将能更有效地与Netflix、亚马逊、迪士尼竞争。唯一的问题是他需要承担的债务，以及利润的持续下滑。

Well, upside is that he manages to figure out I mean, firstly, putting them together catapults him into a very strong position in Hollywood. Warner and Paramount together, the two studios are very well positioned. The streaming operations would also be very well positioned. They'd be able to compete more effectively with Netflix, Amazon, Disney. The only question is he's got the debt he'll be taking on he's also got the declining profits.

电影公司和流媒体业务本身并不怎么赚钱。他能否足够快地提升这些业务的利润，以抵消有线电视业务的衰退？这就是问题所在，非常难以判断。

The studio and the streaming don't make that much money. Can he improve the profits from those fast enough to offset the declines in the cable business? And that's the question, which is very hard to of

对，对。在我们结束之前，还有本周关于默多克家族的大新闻——拉克伦·默多克接管了家族帝国。你在本周的简报中似乎没有过多提及这件事，至少我不这么认为。

Right, right. Very quickly, before we let you go, we also had the big Murdoch news this week that Lachlan Murdoch has control of the family empire. Any any you didn't write about it this week in in the briefing that much, I I don't think at least.

没有多谈。

No reticent.

简单提了一下。简单提了一下。给我们详细说说吧。

Small bit. Small bit. Give us the big bit. Give us Well, the big

听着，这个故事的看点在于，所有人都在写拉克伦赢得了这场漫长而紧张的斗争。但我要说，真正的赢家其实是詹姆斯·默多克、伊丽莎白和普鲁登斯，他们成功脱身。谁愿意押注现在必须独自运营福克斯和新闻集团的拉克伦？这个赌局我可不会参与。所以我认为真正赚钱的是他们。

look, the interesting point about that story, everyone has been writing that, oh, Lachlan won this this long, tense battle. I would argue that the winners were really James Murdoch and Elizabeth and Prudence who are getting out. Who wants to bet on Lachlan who now has to run Fox and News Corp on his own? That's not a bet that I would take. So I think actually they are the ones who are making the money.

他们正在撤离。

They're getting out.

所以你认为这没问题。是的，这是个不错的思考角度。我原本的考虑其实是，考虑到这周我们又见证了媒体格局的再次剧变——新东家、新集团层出不穷，似乎每隔几年就要洗牌一次，这个故事显然还会继续发展下去。

So you think it's okay. Yeah. That's a good way to think about it. The way I was thinking about it really is just, I mean, how much news we got this week with the landscape and media shifting once again. I mean, know, new owners, new conglomerates, Seems like it changes every couple years, and so the story will continue to unfold.

马丁，感谢参加我们的节目。作为联合执行主编，他同时负责《The Information》每日新闻简报的撰写。好的，文克莱沃斯兄弟的加密货币交易所Gemini今天即将上市，这是本周第三家大型科技公司IPO。

Martin, thank you for coming on the show. Martin is our co executive editor, and he is the author of our nightly newsletter debriefing here at The Information. Okay. The Winklevoss Brothers crypto exchange Gemini is going public today. It is the third big tech IPO to happen this week.

昨天还有加密货币公司Figure完成首秀，Klarna也在本周早些时候挂牌上市。现在有请同时深耕加密货币与IPO市场的资深观察者——Sapphire Ventures总裁兼联合创始人杰伊·多斯，他是节目的老朋友了。杰伊，欢迎回来。

We also had Figure, another crypto company that debuted yesterday, and Klarna, which listed shares earlier this week. I want to bring on a close watcher of both the crypto and the IPO markets. Jay Doss is the president and co founder of Sapphire Ventures. He is a longtime friend of the show. Jay, welcome back.

很高兴你能来。

It's great to have you.

是啊，阿卡什。感谢邀请，重返节目感觉很棒。

Yeah, Akash. Thanks for having me. It's great to be back.

本周IPO市场异常活跃，这种盛况我们已经很久没见了。回顾这三起案例，请谈谈你的观察，以及这对整个IPO市场有何启示？

So we had a busy week this week in IPOs, which is not something that we've said in a while. Looking back on these three, tell us about your reflections and what we learned about the IPO market more broadly.

是的。首先，这些基本上都是金融科技公司的IPO。当然，Black Coffee是一家连锁企业。但即便如此，你会发现它们是非常不同的公司。Klarna实际上是一家消费信贷公司，与Figr截然不同，后者主要在区块链领域开展多项业务，但我更倾向于认为它们更像是一家试图通过区块链技术重塑抵押贷款和贷款发放方式的企业级公司。

Yeah. So the first thing is that these are all mostly fintech IPOs. Of course, Black Coffee was a you know, a chain. But, you know, even then, if you look at it, they're very different companies. Klarna is actually a consumer lending company, which is very different than than Figr, which is, you know, doing a lot of things with blockchain, but I almost think that they are more of an enterprise company that is trying to redo how mortgages are are sold and loans are given on a blockchain.

然后是Gemini。对吧？它更像是一家交易所。你也可以将其视为数字资产托管公司。所以，观察Gemini的定价会很有趣。

And then we have Gemini. Right? Which is kind of an exchange. You could also look at them as a digital asset treasury company. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with with the pricing for Gemini.

没错。我们之前节目中也讨论过一点，你认为这是IPO窗口期开启的信号吗？在你看来，IPO市场是否正在发生结构性变化？

Right. And I mean, we've talked about this a little bit on the show before, but is this the IPO window opening? Is something structurally changing about the IPO market in your mind here?

是的。我认为市场对IPO的需求很大，不仅来自机构投资者，还包括许多散户投资者。如今投行设计IPO方案的方式——我记得有报道称Gemini的IPO中30%份额面向散户发售。

Yeah. I do think that there is a lot of appetite for IPOs, not only just from institutional investors, but also a lot of retail investors. Right? I I do think that if you look at how the bankers are nowadays structuring the IPOs, I think I read somewhere that the Gemini IPO, 30% of it is being sold to retail.

对，对。通过Robinhood这类新型平台...

Yeah. Yeah. Through through Robinhood and and some of some of these newer

平台。没错。这完全不同。对吧？

platforms. Exactly. Which is very different. Right? Right.

以前的IPO可能最多只向散户出售10%的份额。

Previously IPOs and you had, you know, you would sell maybe 10% to retail if that. Right?

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

但我认为，这些公司和银行家们的所作所为确实激发了散户投资者的兴趣。要知道，许多对冲基金和跨界基金在私人阶段就能通过大宗股权转让或融资轮次接触这些公司。这实际上迎合了散户对IPO的胃口。

But I think there is a like, you know, what these companies and and the bankers are doing is really giving this appetite to the retail investor. Because remember, a lot of the hedge funds, a lot of the, you know, crossover funds, they do have access to these companies to even when they're private when they do these big tender offer than these big round. This is really capturing the retail kind of appetite for IPOs.

没错。当前经济环境下利率开始下降，这个因素可能也在一定程度上打开了市场空间。

Right. We're also at this place in the economy where rates are starting to come down, and there's also that factor there that that might be sort of opening up the markets a little more.

正是如此。人们正在寻求增长机会，系统内有大量资金在流动。其中部分资金正从信贷和债务工具转向——正如你所说，利率下降促使人们追求增长。总体而言，风险偏好确实发生了变化。

Exactly. Right? People are looking for growth, and there's a lot of capital kind of sloshing around in the system. And some of that is also kind of pivoting back from more credit and debt oriented instruments because, as you said, the interest rates are coming down and people are looking for for growth. But in general, I think the risk appetite has definitely changed.

我明白经济数据会因观察角度不同释放矛盾信号。但确实存在一批散户和机构投资者在积极寻找成长股，这正是IPO市场表现强劲的原因。

I I know, you know, the the economy kind of, you know, is giving different signals depending on what you want to look at. But I think there are people out there, both retail and on the institutional side, really looking for growth stocks. And that is why the IPO market is doing so well.

过去几年我们常讨论上市门槛——不仅是你，整个行业都认为5亿美元年营收（对应约50亿市值）是上市基准线。上次Figama上市时你曾表示这个标准未变。考虑到当前经济结构变化，你认为这个门槛会降低吗？还是说依然维持在5亿？

So now over the last couple of years, we've talked about this bar that it's not just you, but everyone has said $500,000,000 in ARR. That is kind of the bar for going public. Think that equates to something like a $5,000,000,000 market cap. Last time we had you on the show, when Figma IPO ed, you basically made the point, I don't think the bar has really changed that much. With these structural changes happening in the economy, do you think that bar is coming down at all, or are we still at 500?

不。你看，即便Gemini以4.25亿营收规模启动IPO——有趣的是他们实际缩减了发行规模。

No. I I think you like, look. Even, you know, Gemini is selling 425,000,000 at the kind of, you know, at the IPO. But what has happened, I think, is, you know, if you look at the Gemini IPO, it's kind of interesting. They actually reduced the size of the offering.

从某种程度上说，他们基本上减少了供应量，这样就能获得一个漂亮的涨幅，实现上行收益。但我确实认为，正是由于这些IPO的构建方式，许多机构投资者即使获得配售，也不会大规模买入，除非股票有更高的流动性和流通量。

In some ways, you know, they basically decreased the supply so that, you know, they can get a really nice pop and have on the upside. But I I do think that that is why since these, the way that these IPOs are being structured, I think a lot of institutional investors, even if they buy, you know, if they get allocations, they're not going to buy in a huge way until there's more liquidity and float in the stock.

对。但再谈谈公司规模的问题？比如5亿美元的年经常性收入（ARR），这个门槛会改变吗？

Right. But what about, again, the size of the company? Like 500,000,000 ARR, does that threshold Yeah. Change for

我认为那个门槛仍然存在。比如你看Siger，市值超过70亿美元。Gemini的定价大约在30到35亿美元之间。所以我认为，也许标准不再是50亿美元。但这也是IPO生命周期的一部分。

I think that threshold is still there. Like, you look at Siger, that's like over $7,000,000,000 in market cap. I think Gemini is, like, pricing at, $3.03 and a half billion. So I do think that, you know, maybe the bar, you know, is not at 5,000,000,000. But also, this is the life cycle of IPO.

回顾历史，初期上市的通常是顶尖公司，50亿到100亿美元的规模是人们所期待的。但随着时间的推移，随着IPO越来越多，市场需求增加，公司可能会以较低的指标和较小的流通量上市。因此，我预见未来12到18个月内，会有市值小得多的公司上市，流通量可能只有100到150亿美元。问题是这些公司的长期命运如何？它们会陷入私募地狱被收购，还是能够生存下来，执行并超越预期，真正成长为大型企业？

If you look back in history, typically, the at the at the beginning, you really get the tippy top company, you know, the 5,000,000,000, 10,000,000,000 mark is kind of what what is people looking for. But then over time, as there is more and more of these IPOs and more people want to buy them, companies go out with maybe not those kind of metrics and not as much float. So I can see that, you know, in in the next twelve, eighteen months, there will be companies going out with much smaller market caps, and the float will be like maybe $100,150,000,000. The question is what happens to those companies long term? Like, they end up in PE hell and get acquired, or do they actually able to survive and execute and meet and beat the forecast and actually become a big company?

你能帮我理解一下吗？你提到Gemini被视为某种数字资产国库公司，这个观点很有趣，因为我查看了财务数据。我是将其与Coinbase对比的，Coinbase是一家盈利且收入增长的公司。

Can you help me understand? You talked about Gemini's sort of people seeing it as sort of a digital asset treasury company, and that's kind of an interesting view because I was looking at the financials. Mean, I was comparing it to Coinbase, right? Coinbase, it's a profitable company. Revenue is growing at Coinbase.

而Gemini的收入却在收缩，如果你看前六个月

As Gemini revenue contracted, if you look at the first six

的数据

months

今年与去年上半年的对比显示，收入收缩而运营成本上升。所以我实在看不出这家公司的价值所在。你们说他们资产负债表上有加密货币，但仅此而已。

of the year this year versus the first six months last year, revenue's contracted and operating expenses have gone up. So I'm not really seeing what the case here is for the company. You're saying, Hey, they have crypto on their balance sheet. Just Exactly. Budge

听着，有些公司就像MicroStrategy（原名）那样调整战略——它们本质上就是持有比特币。还有几家公司也在这么做。市场会如何定价、交易层面会发生什么，这很有趣。因为当散户投资大量涌入时，公司基本面就无关紧要了。

Look, there are companies like that trading out their strategy, is like, you know, which was previously called MicroStrategy, is a great example. Right? They're basically holding Bitcoin. You know, each dealer, you know, and a couple of other companies kind of doing that. So I I don't know what the market you know, it's it's going to be interesting to see how it prices and what happens on the on the trading side, you know, because, you know, at some point, I you know, the the if there's a lot of retail investment, it doesn't matter the fundamentals of the of the company.

几乎...

It it almost

到那时就纯粹是梗图话题了。确实。

just a memes talk at that point. It's it's Yeah.

有点吧。要我说完全是梗图驱动。

A little bit. A little bit. I I would say complete memes talk.

我懂。对对对，不过...大概这意思。

I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but, you know, loosely.

没错。股价其实是由Reddit和社交网络上的热议推动的，而非基本面。真正的基本面要等6-9个月锁定期结束，公司发布两三次季报后才能看清。所以有时候很难分析股价上涨的原因...

Yeah. Exactly. It it kind of you know, what people are talking about on Reddit on in all of these, you know, social network, that's kind of what drives the price of the stock and not the fundamentals. I think you find out the fundamentals over time in six to nine months when the lockup expires and the company has provided two or three kind of quarterly results. So, it very hard to sometimes analyze why a stock is kind of going up versus

涨涨跌跌。说到这些国库公司，我其实不太理解，如果投资这类公司的竞争论点是基于它们作为国库公司的身份，那么本质上这些国库公司——它们其实是不同业务却持有相同的加密货币资产。为什么要选择这家而非那家国库公司？就像...我真的不知道。

going And down. To think about these treasury companies, I don't really understand that, is if the sort of competitive thesis for investing in this company is the fact that it's a treasury company, well then really the treasury company, it's hard to They're different businesses with the same cryptocurrencies on the balance sheet. Why do you buy one treasury company versus the next? It's like, I don't I don't know.

没错。我个人也不清楚。但你看，我认为这正是金融科技股的难点所在，对吧？

Yes. Exactly. I I personally don't know. But look, I think that is the challenge with fintech stocks. Right?

我认为金融科技股不像软件股那样有ARR（年化经常性收入）、GRR（总留存率）和NDR（净美元留存率）这些明确的利润率指标。金融科技企业总是很复杂，因为资产负债表上会有各种项目，业务形态也五花八门。

I think fintech stocks are not like software stocks where software stocks you have ARR and GRR and NDR. Those are kind of margin. Those are the key metrics. Fintech businesses are always complicated because you'll have some things on your balance sheet. You'll have some stuff.

可能你作为贷款工具直接面向消费者销售，也可能...所以金融科技股对普通投资者来说分析难度大得多。当然银行家们除外——

Maybe you're selling directly to the consumers as a lending instrument. You might be so so fintech, I think stocks are much difficult to analyze for a layperson. You know, of course, bankers

而且财务报表极其令人困惑。你真的需要专家来解读现金流量表，因为这完全不是一回事。

and Financial statements are very are very confusing. You really have to get an expert to read the cash flow statements because you just it's not the same.

完全同意。总体而言，我认为市场对这些IPO股票有需求是好事，人们获得流动性，进行交易，这在某种程度上是必要的。正如我一直强调的，上市公司有监管约束反而能促使企业运营得更规范。

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Look, I think over overall, I think it's good for the market that there is appetite for all of these IPO stocks and that, you know, people are getting liquidity, you know, people are trading because you want that in in some ways. As I keep saying that, you know, it is good to be public companies because you have the regulation kind of overview, but it just makes you operate as a much, much better company while you're public versus Right.

保持

Staying

太好了。杰，非常感谢你参加我们的节目。这周IPO市场非常繁忙，我猜接下来可能会更忙，所以我们需要多请你来帮我们解读这些首次公开募股的情况。这位是Sapphire Ventures的联合创始人杰·多斯。好的，我们都知道彭博终端对华尔街有多重要。

Great. Well, Jay, thank you so much for coming on the show. Was a busy week for IPOs, and I suspect that things might get a little bit busier, so we will have to have you on more to make sense of all of these initial public That is Jay Doss, the co founder at Sapphire Ventures. Okay. Well, we all know just how important Bloomberg terminals have become to Wall Street.

至少有一家公司希望利用人工智能从终端那里分走一部分市场份额。AlphaSense成立于十多年前，但人工智能帮助它在去年将估值提升到了40亿美元。我想请公司CEO杰克·科科来帮助我们理解华尔街如何看待这项新兴技术。杰克，欢迎来到TI TV，很高兴你能来。

At least one company is hoping it can use AI to take at least some of that market share away from the terminal. AlphaSense was founded more than a decade ago, but AI has helped lift its valuation to $4,000,000,000 last year. I want to bring on the company's CEO, Jack Coco, to help us understand how Wall Street is thinking about this emerging technology. Jack, welcome to TI TV. It's great to have you.

谢谢，阿卡什。谢谢邀请我。

Thanks, Akash. Thanks for having me.

那么，首先请向我们解释一下这个平台到底是做什么的。

So explain to us what exactly the platform is for starters.

Alphasis是支撑从华尔街到企业董事会等商业世界最重要决策的技术。它本质上是一个AI搜索和市场情报平台，为我们的客户如谷歌、辉瑞、摩根大通的决策者提供触手可及的精准洞察。他们用它来分析收购公司、进行投资、推出新产品、进入新市场等所有重大商业价值创造活动所需的信息，关键在于你能自信地掌握正确的数据和洞察，这确实能在与不具备这种能力的公司的竞争中为你带来优势。

Well, Alphasis is the technology behind the most important decisions in the corporate world across from Wall Street to corporate boardrooms. It's basically an AI search and market intelligence platform that puts the right insights at the fingertips of decision makers at our clients, completely Google, Pfizer, JP Morgan. And what they're doing with it is really analyzing what they need to know as they're acquiring companies, making investments, launching new products, entering new markets, all the major value creation activities in business, where it really matters that you have the confidence from having the right data and insights at your fingertips, and really can make a difference in your competitive edge against companies that don't have this kind of capability at their hands.

所以你们不仅提供财务数据，还有研究报告、SEC文件、新闻、专家分析等，你们把所有这些东西整合到一个平台，现在又用AI来帮人们理解这些数据。这确实是个非常有用的工具。我的问题是，为什么像彭博这样的公司——我想这是人们能想到的最接近的类比——为什么彭博不能直接用AI开发类似的东西呢？

So you've got I mean, I've actually I've used the platform. You've got not just the financial data, but you've got the research reports, you've got the SEC filings, you've got news, you've got expert analysis that you guys You kind of put it all into one platform, and now you're using AI to sort of make sense of all that data for people. It's certainly a very helpful tool. My question is, why can't a company like Bloomberg, which I think is probably the closest analog people know for something like this, why can't Bloomberg just build something like this with AI?

嗯，我可能不是回答这个问题的最佳人选。

Well, I may not be the right person to ask.

我应该去问问迈克尔·布隆伯格。

I should go ask Michael Bloomberg.

我们进入这个领域是为了创新一些前所未有的东西。我们看到了这些传统的旧式数据终端提供大量内容访问。我当年在投行做分析师时就用过这些。它们在提供海量信息访问方面很棒，但实际并未真正帮助你找到信息。你得手动搜索并花费大量时间。

We've entered this space to come and innovate something new that wasn't being done before. We saw these sort of traditional legacy data terminals providing access to a lot of content. I used these as an analyst back in the day in my investment banking days. And they were great at providing access to a lot of information, but what they didn't do is actually help you really find it. You had to manually go and look for it and spend a lot of time.

我们想构建的是一种能力，一种语义AI驱动的搜索能力，它能帮你找到所有相关数据点，并利用AI真正整合信息，进行链式推理，将其编织成强有力的叙述，让用户能随时获取正确信息。目前我们还没看到其他公司能做到这点。

And what we wanted to build is a capability, a semantic AI driven search capability that helps you find all the relevant data points and now uses AI to really pull it together, do chain reasoning, of and kind of tie that together in really strong narrative so that users can have the right information at their fingertips. We haven't seen anybody else be able to do that yet.

对，就是有了AI组件。然后

Right, with the AI component. And the

另外其实是内容部分——如你所提，我们的专家访谈库是去年收购Tigas公司获得的重要专有内容集，我们一直在积极扩展。这提供了许多其他地方找不到的独家洞见。即便是那些大型传统数据终端公司也无法获取通过AlphaSense获得的这类情报。

other piece is actually, sorry, is the content where, as you mentioned, our expert transcript library is actually a major proprietary content set that we acquired a company last year called Tigas and have been really aggressively expanding that. That provides a lot of proprietary insight that you can't find anywhere else. Even these sort of very large legacy data terminal companies do not have access to a lot of this intelligence that you get through AlphaSense.

说说你们做的专家研究吧。是有团队亲自与专家进行一手研究，还是用AI代理进行访谈？这类研究具体是怎样的？

So tell me about that expert research that you guys are doing. Do you have a team of people that is then going in and doing primary research with experts, or are you using AI agents to run these interviews? What does that research look like?

目前主要还是我们协助风投、私募股权和对冲基金人士每天进行专家访谈，每季度2万通电话，对象是企业界专家、前高管、客户、合作伙伴及竞争对手，深度挖掘公司关键问题。针对你第二个问题，我们新增了AI访谈员功能，可以派它去访谈所有专家并进行半小时的智能对话，探讨复杂技术，这为我们的资料库带来了更大规模扩展。

Well, the majority of it is still us facilitating venture capitalists, private equity professionals, and hedge fund people doing interviews every day, 20,000 calls per quarter with experts in the corporate world, former executives, customers, partners, competitors of every one of those companies to really dig deep into what matters for those companies. And now what we've added is to your second question, we've added an AI interviewer actually, where we're also able to send that to interview all of these experts and have really smart conversations, a half an hour conversation with an expert on sophisticated technologies, that's able to add even more scale to the library.

所以你基本上是在赌你收集的这些核心数据就是护城河，我想这是因为数据的质量本质上更高，对任何人来说都更有价值

So you're kind of betting that this data that you're the primary data that you're collecting, that is kind of the moat, I guess, because it's the quality of the data essentially, it's better for anyone to

利用数据的质量、洞察的广度、独特的见解，当然还有将这些整合在一起的技术。我们最近从客户那里听到，一家私募股权公司告诉我们，他们花了一个月手动研究某个市场领域，而我们的深度研究产品在10天内就提供了相同甚至更好的报告（用他们的话说）。这正是真正让我们与众不同的地方。

use The quality of the the data, the breadth of the insights, the unique insights, and of course technology that ties it all together. We've seen, heard from clients where private equity firm told us recently they'd spent a month doing research manually on a market segment where our deep research product gave that same, and even better in their words, report in 10. That's the kind of thing that really differentiates us.

我确实想问你，你们公司成立已有十多年，可以说经历了前ChatGPT时代，现在又在AI时代进行建设。我们在The Information一直在讨论的一个问题是，人们如何调整业务结构以适应AI成本和AI时代的建设需求。与十年前你们可能更像传统软件公司时相比，过去三年你们的成本结构发生了怎样的变化？现在是否有更大比例的成本用于支付后台使用的这些模型？你们是否不得不调整定价策略？

I do want to ask you, so your company is more than a decade old, and you've sort of been around for, I guess, call it the pre ChatGPT era, and then now you're building in this AI era. And one of the questions that we've been talking about here at The Information is how people have evolved their business structure to sort of take into consideration the costs of AI and building in the AI era. How have you seen your cost structure change in the last three years compared to, ten years ago when you were building what may have otherwise been sort of a more traditional software business, I guess? Are you seeing a much larger percent of your costs now go towards paying for these models that you're using in the background? Are you having to adjust pricing?

具体是什么情况？

What does that look like?

首先，我们实际上是在AI优先这个概念还没流行之前就成立了这家公司。我们利用上一代AI技术创造了相当智能的语义搜索。当然，生成式AI现在实现了人类能与机器对话并获得真正智能的人类水平答案的愿景。我们现在正加倍投入，在所有产品中深度应用生成式AI。虽然我们因此有意识地承受毛利率下降，但为客户提供这种智能、消化数万亿token以给出最佳答案是有意义的。客户获得了很高的投资回报率，他们也愿意为此付费。

Well, firstly, we actually founded the company as an AI first company before anybody was really thinking So this we used a lot of the prior generation of AI capabilities to create pretty smart semantic search. Of course, what generative AI has now done is taken this through to the vision of a human being able to talk to a machine and get a really smart human level answer back. Now, what we're able to do now as we're doubling down and using generative AI really heavily across all our product, of course we're investing in a value proposition and we're taking very consciously a gross margin hit because it makes sense to add that intelligence, add all those trillions of tokens our system is consuming in order to give the best answers to our clients. It makes sense. Our clients are getting a lot of ROI and they're happy to pay for it.

因此，我们继续加大这方面的投入是完全合理的。

And as a result, it makes sense for us to invest to do even more of that.

没错，很好。杰克，非常感谢你参加节目。这个平台非常引人入胜。就像我说的，我今天早上还在用它研究今天进行的Gemini IPO，它确实提醒了我之前几位嘉宾提到的一点——30%的股份是通过这些零售交易平台发行或分配的。这是我之前不知道的。

Right, great. Well, Jack, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's a fascinating platform. Like I said, I've been using, I was using it this morning actually to research the Gemini IPO that is happening today, it did alert me to actually something that some of the previous guests mentioned, which is the fact that 30% of the shares are being issued through or distributed through these retail trading platforms. That was something I didn't know.

这是Alfasense告诉我的。所以这是一个很棒的平台。非常感谢。这位是Alfasense的首席执行官Jack Coco。好的。

That was something that Alfasense told me. And so it's a great platform. Thank you so much. That is Jack Coco, the CEO of Alfasense. Okay.

长期以来，科技公司对收购社交媒体平台非常感兴趣，因为这类平台越来越受到消费者和广告商的欢迎。但Quartermaster Advisors的新数据显示，人工智能的出现导致对这些平台的兴趣骤降，至少在并购方面如此。我想请本周发布该报告的Quartermass James Creech来告诉我们更多关于他收集的数据以及可能解释这一趋势的原因。James，欢迎来到TI TV。很高兴你能来。

For a long time, tech companies were very interested in buying social media platforms as that category became more popular with consumers and with advertisers. But new data from Quartermaster Advisors shows that the advent of AI has caused interest in those platforms to crater, at least as it relates to M and A. I want to bring on Quartermass James Creech, who published that report this week to tell us more about the data that he's collected and what could explain that trend. James, welcome to TI TV. It's great to have you.

谢谢Akash。很高兴来到这里。

Thanks Akash. Happy to be here.

那么我们来谈谈你发布的这份报告。告诉我们你发现了什么数据。

So let's talk about this report that you put out. Tell us about the data that you found.

当然。我们对社交媒体平台的收购历史进行了广泛研究。我们查看了Facebook、Instagram、Meta的一些活动，YouTube、TikTok、Snapchat，基本上从它们成立至今，即2007年到现在所做的收购数量。过去五年有明显的下降，这归因于多种因素，其中一些包括你提到的技术转变，对吧？我们正在进入一个新的人工智能领域。

Sure. So we did some extensive research into the history of acquisitions by social platforms. So looking at Facebook, Instagram, some meta's activity, YouTube, TikTok, Snapchat, the number of acquisitions they've made essentially throughout their history, 2,007 to present. And there's been a noticeable decline in the past five years, which is attributable to a number of factors, some of which include the technology shifts that you mentioned, right? We're moving into a new AI landscape.

因此，许多这些企业的关注点已经发生了变化。但我们也经历了一些重大的宏观变化和政治变化。

And so the focus of a lot of these businesses have changed. But we've also undergone some significant macro changes and political changes as well.

好的。那么当我们谈论社交媒体平台时，我的意思是，你知道，我们谈论的是大型科技公司收购像WhatsApp、Instagram这样的平台。那是很久以前的事了。我们也在谈论你跟踪的一些较小的收购，对吧？

Okay. So now when we're talking about social media platforms, I mean, you know, we're talking about the big tech companies buying platforms like WhatsApp, Instagram. That was ages ago. We're also talking about like smaller purchases that you track too, right?

没错。确实有一些头条收购案，比如你提到的WhatsApp、Instagram、Pike Dance以及收购Musically的数十亿美元交易。但也有一些规模较小、更具战略性的整合收购。值得注意的是，Meta多年来在元宇宙和游戏领域进行了多次收购，最近则将重点转向了大量人工智能领域的收购。

That's right. Yeah, there have been some headline acquisitions, you mentioned, billion dollar deals with WhatsApp, Instagram, Pike Dance, buying Musically. But there've also been a number of smaller, more strategic tuck ins. Meta noticeably, you know, made a number of acquisitions in the metaverse in gaming space for a number of years. They've shifted their focus to a lot of AI acquisitions recently.

Snapchat最近收购了一款面向高中生和大学生的日历应用Saturn。虽然相比2010年代的高峰期，现在的交易量确实有所减少，但市场上仍存在一些收购活动。

Snapchat bought a calendar app for high school and college students called Saturn recently. So, you know, there have been admittedly less deals than there were in the paydays of the of the twenty tens, but certainly still some activity going on.

等等，Snap收购了一款大学生日历应用？

Sorry. Snap bought a calendar app for college students?

是的。本质上这是一款社交日历应用，用户可以标注'我正在参加这些活动'。Snapchat为了保持对年轻用户的吸引力，希望整合这项功能来了解人们如何在线下（而不仅是在Snapchat平台上）与朋友互动。

That's right. So it's essentially a social calendar app that says, I'm taking, these are the activities I'm involved in. So in their bid to kind of stay relevant to youth, they wanted to have an integrated feature to understand how people are relating to their friends' IRL, not even just on the Snapchat platform.

明白了。那么让我们回到这些社交平台收购案减少的原因。你认为这背后反映的宏观趋势是什么？是否意味着社交媒体已不再是具有吸引力的商业模式？

Got it. And so now let's go back to the reasons for why these social platform acquisitions have gone down. So I guess, what are we saying here? Like, what's the bigger picture? Is it that social media is not an interesting business model anymore?

或者说——比如我们听说OpenAI曾讨论过要建立自己的社交平台。你认为这背后更深层的行业动向是什么？

Is it that, you know, I mean, we've heard of OpenAI, for example. Think they've talked about building their own social media platform with Like, what's the bigger story going on here, you think?

我认为有几个因素。首先是战略转变：过去的策略是在竞争对手壮大前进行收购，就像Facebook当年收购Instagram那样。多年来他们也曾多次试图收购Snapchat。

I think it's a few things. Number one, the strategy has shifted. So the playbook used to be, well, let's acquire our competitors before they become too large. That was certainly the case with Facebook buying Instagram back in the day. Also, a number of efforts, you know, to to purchase Snapchat over the years.

然而相反，他们开始互相抄袭功能。如今许多社交平台提供的服务感觉非常相似，你知道的，都拥有一系列雷同的功能。公开市场的压力已从不惜一切代价追求增长转向奖励盈利能力。对吧？因此，资本成本上升的理念也随之而来。

But instead, the they started copying each other's features. A lot of social platforms feel very similar offer, you know, a number of similar features today. The public market pressures have shifted from growth at all costs to rewarding profitability. Right? And so the idea of, well, the cost of capital's increased.

利率正在上升。结果就是收购活动减少，更多精力转向通过自然方式获取用户或寻求其他增长途径。最后，还面临大量政治审查，对吧？针对大型科技公司的反垄断和监管框架压力，使得这些科技巨头进行大规模收购变得更加困难。

There are rising interest rates. As a result, there are fewer acquisitions and and more of this effort of, okay, let's invest in acquiring more users organically or looking at other approaches for growth. And then finally, there's been a lot of political scrutiny, right? This pressure against big tech, this antitrust and regulatory frameworks that are making it more challenging for, you know, these big tech giants to make larger acquisitions.

在你们发布的另一份报告中，你们还广泛追踪了创作者经济领域的收购情况。跟我们说说你们的发现。总体而言，创作者经济中的收购活动实际上正在增加。

And another report that you put out, you also track acquisitions broadly in the creator economy. Tell us about what you've found. Acquisitions are actually, broadly speaking, they're increasing in the creator economy.

增幅相当显著。是的，这很有趣。你看，创作者经济正处于风口，这一领域吸引了大量关注和活动。我认为这很大程度上是因为战略投资者意识到：嘿，我们需要更多这样的能力和内部基因。所以我们正在对创作者经济下重注。

Significantly so. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, the creator economy is on its air, and there's a lot of interest and activity in the space. I think a lot of that is driven by strategics realizing, hey, we want more of this capability, this DNA in house. And so we're making a big bet on the creator economy.

没错。同时也有许多新玩家进入了这个领域。

Right. We've also had a number of newer players enter the space.

那么对于不熟悉的人来说，当前创作者经济中谁是买家谁是卖家呢？

So And who who like what for people who aren't familiar, who's buying and who's selling in the creator economy right now?

当然。创作者经济中的收购目标包括服务型企业，如网红营销机构、艺人经纪公司；也有为创作者提供内容生产、分发和变现工具的软件公司；还有创作者驱动的业务——比如创作者推出的快消品牌或其他产品。对吧？

Sure. So the targets in the creator economy are services businesses like influencer marketing agencies, talent management firms. They can be software companies that are providing tools for creators around content production and distribution monetization. There are, you know, creator driven businesses. You've got creators launching these CPG brands or other products Right.

直接向粉丝销售产品。买家往往是行业内的现有企业。对吧？比如好时公司收购酸味糖条这类案例中，市场战略参与者会说，嘿。

To to sell through to their fans. The buyers tend to be incumbents. Right? So some of these strategic players in markets that, you know, the Hershey's buying sour strips, for example. They say, hey.

现在有个趋势是创作者们正在建立新的糖果品牌。我们想要占领这个市场份额。我们要在这个领域占有一席之地。我们要保护这个品类。但同时也有像Patreon这样的大型原生公司在大举收购。

There's this trend of creators building, you know, a new candy brand. We wanna own that market share. We wanna be a name in that space. We wanna protect that category. But you also have, you know, large native companies like Patreon making acquisitions in the greater Right.

或是战略投资者表示，我们想掌控社交媒体软件或网红营销软件领域，于是他们收购该类别的新进入者。

Or strategics saying, hey, we wanna own social media software or influencer marketing software, and they're making acquisitions of new entrants in the category.

没错。太棒了。詹姆斯，就像我之前说的，这些数据质量很高，我非常喜欢阅读你定期发布的报告。非常感谢你参加本期节目并分享这些见解。这位是Quartermast Advisors创始人詹姆斯·克里奇。今天的节目就到这里。

Right. Great. Well, James, like like I've said earlier, I mean, the data is it's it's high quality data, and I love reading your reports as they come through. So thank you so much for coming on the show and Thank sharing it with That is James Creech, the founder of Quartermast Advisors. Well, that does it for today's show.

提醒大家，我们每周一到周五太平洋时间上午10点（东部时间下午1点）在此直播。我要感谢本节目首席赞助商亚马逊云服务，也感谢各位的收看。我们非常珍视每一位观众。我已经开始期待下周一的新节目了。祝大家周末愉快，

A reminder that we are live on this stream Monday through Friday at 10AM Pacific, 1PM Eastern. Want I to thank Amazon Web Services who is our presenting sponsor for this production, and I want to thank you for tuning in. We really do appreciate your viewership. I am already excited for our next show on Monday. And so until then, have a great weekend.

我们很快再见。

We'll see you soon.